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Never Enough

By Laura Barcella, AlterNet. Posted August 26, 2005.


In his book American Mania, a psychiatrist urges us to stop our endless quest of accumulation -- unless we want to witness a mass psychological and economic meltdown.
American Mania
American Mania
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In American Mania: When More is Not Enough, renowned psychiatrist Dr. Peter C. Whybrow skillfully and sensitively critiques the mess America has made of its consumer culture.

What have we become? According to Whybrow’s scientific and philosophical analyses, we’ve devolved into a nation of overindulging, overstimulated flakes addicted to easy access and instant gratification.

Dr. Whybrow argues that our seemingly interminable quest for more -- more money, more power, more toys, more cars -- has in fact become a form of clinical mania marked by symptoms such as anxiety, depression and obesity.

To avoid suffering a collective mental breakdown, Whybrow implores us to stop focusing on things and instead turn our attention to people -- family, friends and community. It's a familiar refrain, but one that clearly needs repeating: If we are to be happy, Americans must stop superficially striving, and learn to prioritize people over products.

Dr. Whybrow spoke with AlterNet from his office in Los Angeles.

AlterNet: In your book, you write that America's "migrant spirit" plays a key role in the development of our culture's mania. Can you explain that idea for those who haven't read the book?

b>The idea of American mania is that we are drawn into frenzied activity largely by instinctual strivings. This is very natural, and keeps us alive. But the migrant has this striving to an even greater degree than the average person -- if you think about what it is that drives most of us, it's curiosity, it's self-preservation, and also social ambition. These are the three fundamental aspects of what drives individuals and what drives all market societies.

In America, one of the reasons we find the market so compelling and why we're so good at it is that most of us came from somewhere else. Only 2 percent of the world's population actually moves hundreds or thousands of miles away from where they were born; most people die within 50 miles of where they were born, believe it or not.

We're a collection of survivalists; we're a collection of people who are very curious, very assertive, able to figure out what to do with little, to make the best of things, and so on and so forth.

We've built ourselves this wonderful culture -- this wonderful material pleasure palace -- and we're not quite sure how to stop. We've discovered an aberration of the human spirit a little earlier than most other countries -- but everybody's catching up, slowly.

What do you think is the scariest symptom of America's collective frenzy for more, more, more?

I think the scariest part is that we have not started to question it as a nation. Lots of individuals have started to question it, and that's partly why the book has become so popular. But we have to think through what it is that we're doing to ourselves.

Take food, for example -- instinctually we love to eat ... salt; we love fat. And much of the food that we have available to us contains those things; we just overeat and do very bad things to ourselves.

The same is true in terms of our curiosity for information. We can inundate ourselves 24 hours a day now with electronic systems, and all of these things tend to actually push us to the edge of our sociological tolerance.

People are not supposed to eat all day and take no exercise. It's very bad for the human body, and you eventually end up developing Type II diabetes. And if you don't know how to control your time and the technology in your life, you can rapidly become anxious because you worry that you're missing something.

The other thing which is very evident, though some people don't even see it as a behavioral problem, and which you read about everyday in the newspapers, is that people become essentially seduced into engaging in practices which are not good for them.

I just got an email the other day from a person that'd been caught up in the whole dot-com craziness, and [he had] done some "creative accounting" in one of the companies. He realized later -- when he was caught, and with terrible remorse -- that he'd destroyed his life.

But the idea that one needs more -- which is driven in part by social ambition -- makes many people forget the reality of the world, which is, of course, that happiness doesn't come from just material acquisition, whether that means more food, or more information, or more money. It comes from a totally different source: the way in which you spend your life with other people.

What would be the worst possible outcome if Americans continued down the path we're on right now?

Well, on the individual level, which is the way the book is pitched, we will find a rising level of these sorts of disorders that I was just talking about. But I think the greed that we see will become much more individualistic, and much less socially involved. That will begin to slowly destroy the next generation of people, because the way we learn how to live in a society is from others. And if everybody is totally individualistic, we're not going to learn.

But perhaps even more importantly, [we] will find that the economy will begin to collapse, because the signs are already out there. We are consuming too much; we're going well beyond our ability to finance it. We're the biggest debtor in the world now, and a lot of the world economy is based on American consumerism.


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Laura Barcella is AlterNet's front page editor.

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Interesting article
Posted by: WhatNow? on Aug 26, 2005 2:47 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
I'd love to comment on this article but it would be a long reply and I do not have the time at the moment.

Take care everybody.

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» RE: Interesting article Posted by: nakis
David Model
Posted by: david.model@senecac.on.ca on Aug 26, 2005 3:53 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
I completely agree with Laura Barcella. Her hypothesis can be extrapolted to a global level. A necessity in a consumeristic society is access to inputs such as oil, aluminum, cobalt etc. These inputs are frequently located in other countries. The need to maintain growth in the consumer society creates an imperative to plunder that wealth of natural resources wherever it may be. This leads to war crimes because rarely do other nations eaily part with their wealth. Examples of these war crimes are documented in my recently published book "Lies for Empire: How to Commit War Crimes with a Straight Face". Greed, power, control and preserving the American economic system were the motivating factors often under the pretext of fighting an enemy such a terrorism. How many people have died so that we can drive our gas-guzzling cars and eat like kings (excluding the 40 million or so Americans living in poverty).

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Being like our neighbors
Posted by: lhior on Aug 26, 2005 4:04 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
"So I think that where you live does tend to influence demand. When a lot of people around you are affluent, it's natural human envy to want to be like them. "

I don't know that it is envy as much as a perception of the norm. Zoning laws encourage this. A norm of lot size, square footage etc. define a community. How does one in those communities model a less consumptive lifestyle?

We in this country are and are surrounded by "consumers". How do we get a better sense of how the rest of the world lives and consumes and more to the point how do we create a desire to be more like them?

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» RE: Being like our neighbors Posted by: cyclone
» RE: Being like our neighbors Posted by: grammasanity
» RE: Being like our neighbors Posted by: Eirego00
Good Luck
Posted by: Stonecutter on Aug 26, 2005 4:30 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
In my view everything the doctor is saying, which is very trenchant, will continue until, as he points out, there's a real crisis throughout the country. Unfortunately, Americans seem to learn these inner truthes, and consider any real change in their values and lifestyle, only through some "tsunami", usually economic. A major recession or depression is likely, given massive government deficits, insane consumer debt and all the boomers moving into retirement, where they will stop working, stop paying into the tax system, and begin withdrawing billions in retirement capital out of the system just to live. What a prescription for economic disaster, and it is looming around the corner. Americans will be forced to change, or go down the tubes. Thanks, Dubya....what a superb job you've done in the past 4 years, taking Clinton's surplus and turning it into economic crap.

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agitator church and state
Posted by: eileen_flmng on Aug 26, 2005 5:11 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Affluenza is the dis-ease of dis-connection from Spirit. Attempting to fill ourselves with 'stuff' when what we really crave is a deep connection to others and Creation.
Hours of connections to technology; computers and cars removes us from the awe nature/creation can fill us with when we slow down, make friends with silence and go within.
When we meditate/think/reflect we become grateful for what we have and freed from desires of what we have not.

Pres. Bush's advice after 9/11 to American's who wanted to do something to help, was that they should go shoppping. Many of us did not:

www.wearewideawake.org

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» Buddhism and Spirituality Posted by: Olympiada
» RE: Buddhism and Spirituality Posted by: kittynboi
» RE: Buddhism and Spirituality Posted by: Basenjis
» RE: Buddhism and Spirituality Posted by: kittynboi
» RE: Buddhism and Spirituality Posted by: wearesilhouettes
» RE: Buddhism and Spirituality Posted by: kittynboi
» RE: Buddhism and Spirituality Posted by: wearesilhouettes
» The Secret Life of Plants Posted by: Olympiada
» social person Posted by: Olympiada
» Thomas Keating Posted by: Olympiada
» hear within Posted by: Olympiada
» RE: agitator church and state Posted by: kittynboi
» RE: agitator church and state Posted by: kittynboi
» RE: agitator church and state Posted by: eileen_flmng
» RE: agitator church and state Posted by: kittynboi
» the blood of gays Posted by: Olympiada
» RE: the blood of gays Posted by: kittynboi
» RE: agitator church and state Posted by: Basenjis
» RE: agitator church and state Posted by: kittynboi
» Accountability Posted by: nickptar
» Jerry Falwell Posted by: Olympiada
» Accountability Posted by: nickptar
» If it works for you Posted by: nickptar
» RE: If it works for you Posted by: Lathor
» the concept of a "savior" Posted by: Olympiada
» What you resist will persist Posted by: Olympiada
» RE: What you resist will persist Posted by: churchofone
» truth Posted by: Olympiada
» RE: truth Posted by: churchofone
» my decision to BE happy, Posted by: Olympiada
» Spirituality Posted by: Olympiada
» RE: Spirituality Posted by: Basenjis
» Tangentially related link Posted by: nickptar
» Dancing with the Gods Posted by: Olympiada
» RE: Dancing with the Gods Posted by: nickptar
» RE: Dancing with the Gods Posted by: Olympiada
» I would choose not - ok Posted by: Olympiada
» RE: I would choose not - ok Posted by: kittynboi
» Free will Posted by: Olympiada
» Spirit Posted by: Olympiada
» doesn't make sense to me either Posted by: Olympiada
Fasting from the feast
Posted by: knitter on Aug 26, 2005 5:13 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Good article. The religious practice of fasting is for getting back on track when feasting becomes more important than anything. What forms might this fasting take?

Observing the Fast

I shall keep my fast
Until I know my hunger
Called by its true name,
Not what it seems to be.

Is it comfort?
Is it pleasure?
Is it power?
Is it fame?

Anything may fill
But not all satisfies.
Endlessly feasting,
Still might I starve.

Is it healing?
Is it vision?
Is it justice?
Is it peace?

The pangs grow sharp.

Is it wisdom?
Is it faith?

Muscles tremble.

Is it hope?
Is it love?

Empty rumblings
Beg for satisfaction.
Grace names my hunger:
Oh, God!

Mary Lennard

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» Thank you for the poem Posted by: Olympiada
» RE: Thank you for the poem Posted by: knitter
too late
Posted by: xenacat on Aug 26, 2005 6:20 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
The good Dr. is absolutely correct about the destructive effects of rampant consumerism. It is sad that it is already too late for many of my generation and that of my younger friends to recover from it. In fact, it maybe too late all the way around. This mad desire to be a mindless consumer started mid century. It has accelerated absurdly in the last decade and a half and tainted even my grandparent's generation. It will take another couple of generations to correct the problem, if a real correction takes place at all.

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» not too late Posted by: apocalypsericekitchen
» RE: too late Posted by: Basenjis
most people die within 50 miles of where they were born
Posted by: Olympiada on Aug 26, 2005 6:58 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
This was an excellent and most amazing article!

So many good points were brought up. Let me see if I can address 3 like the classic college essay, before I go on my way.
Ok, the first one as stated in the title. It is good to reminded of this normalcy. I am a second generation Bay Area native, meaning my mom was born here. My daughter was born here. I still live here. It is easy to lament my lack of opportunity to travel, but really I am like most of the world's population...So that was heartening to hear.

"People are not supposed to eat all day and take no exercise"
I have to express gratitude for my parents who have been runners for my whole life and who instilled in me a practice of healthful diet and exercise. I was fortunate to have a mother who studied nutrition in the university as well as made everything from scratch and shopped in health food stores. Reading this article made me grateful for my differences...My parents always made me exercise every day when I was growing up...and got on my case about my diet if it was poor, particulary if I ate too many carbohydrates! Yep that is right...my mom would not allow it, and this was way before low-carb diets were hip.

"We're the biggest debtor in the world now" - again I was raised not to go in to debt, my parents and my paternal grandmother do not believe in that. I made the mistake of selling out my own values for a marriage, but I will never do that again. Reading this article made me appreciate my strong stand against going in to debt for my education, I refuse. I am thankful I have not been infected by this American mentality, even though I live here.

It was great to see this thoughtful, well written article. I hope I do not offend any one with my comment. I am re-sponding as I see fit. Nor do I wish to come across as bragging, for that is not my intention. It is only to tell my story.

Oly

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» My family Posted by: Olympiada
» spending and consumerism Posted by: Olympiada
» RE: spending and consumerism Posted by: kittynboi
» the blood of women and gays Posted by: Olympiada
» RE: the blood of women and gays Posted by: kittynboi
» RE: the blood of women and gays Posted by: Olympiada
» RE: the blood of women and gays Posted by: kittynboi
» RE: the blood of women and gays Posted by: Olympiada
» RE: spending and consumerism Posted by: wearesilhouettes
» RE: spending and consumerism Posted by: kittynboi
Less is More
Posted by: grammasanity on Aug 26, 2005 7:25 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Thank you, thank you for a confirmation of what I've been saying for years! We don't need STUFF, we need friends and family and the natural world. We don't need widgets and twinklies, but veggies, fruit and protein, and a couple of nice shirts that are comfortable and wear well. We don't need to be entertained, but to share ideas and good times with others.
More than an hour a day on the web is irritating your brain cells and taking away from real life. TV is designed to make you dissatisfied with real life so you'll buy STUFF. It used to be that 90% of Americans grew food. Now it's about 5%. That makes the other 95% dependent on the for-profit distribution system (the farmers still don't make any money). Does anybody out there feel like a kid who never learned anything important because they were too busy being entertained? Go get some seeds and start a garden (well, plan it for next spring). Wear something you made yourself. Tell your kids stories instead of puting on a dvd. LIVE, don't just watch fake stuff full of come-ons for STUFF!

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» RE: Less is More Posted by: kittynboi
» RE: Less is More Posted by: churchofone
» RE: Less is More Posted by: kittynboi
» RE: Less is More Posted by: churchofone
» RE: Less is More Posted by: kittynboi
» And part three. ^_^ Posted by: kittynboi
» Final part. Posted by: kittynboi
» In response Posted by: churchofone
» RE: Less is More Posted by: Basenjis
» AGREE 10000% Posted by: Michiganman
Americans are intelligent folks. We're not greedy, if we begin to realize that we're harming ourselv
Posted by: 2rivers on Aug 26, 2005 8:28 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
es. 1st point: does the 'good dr' mean gringos? i live in america, which i think makes me an american, rite? furtunately im NOT a u.s citizen. 2nd: gringos are intelligent ppl ?? i find this to be a rather un-intelligent blanket statement. the person half of you voted in - again- to be prez for another 4 years, reflects rather accurately your state of intelligence. mabe 'americans' are clever, are cunning, but intElligent !??! give us a break

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When is enough plenty?
Posted by: arch_tech on Aug 26, 2005 8:32 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Excellent discussion on a topic also covered in a book called "Amusing Ourselves to Death, Public Discourse in the Age of Show Business", by Neil Postman. Our thinking about public values and social conciousness has been seriously eroded by a media with huge potential for better visions.

The impact this has on the middle class, in particuar, covered in Barbara Ehrenreich's "Fear of Falling", is quite unnerving. The chasm opening up in the middle class between poverty (more likely because of the prevailing acceptablity of debt) and the upper class of secure financial levels of our society is driven by this erosion of values and social conciousness by consumerism. This leaves an unexamined acceptance of superficial appearances over a fundamental understanding of personal financial security. This will be tragic as the consequences of the vanishing social support network become apparent over the next decade.

Of interest to this psychologist might be a book which delves into this mindset, which was termed "sociopathic" in a book written in 1985 by Alexander Lowen, M.D., "Narcissism". This author was writing as an older professional, expressing serious concern about the cultural changes at the time that were fuelling a narcisisstic world view that corrupted the underpinnings of older value systems which emphasized a coherent world view grounded in financial and social realities. This was apparent even then as the absence of limits or structure which fostered a consumerism instead of focussing on the value of human relationships and structures. It very much reflected an older generational view of the post-1970 era of rebellion against constrictive cultural norms.

I agree that the post-WWII era created a massive cultural change that came out of a reaction to the rationing of war and the earlier 1930's depression that the US soldiers had grown up with, creating an incredible forward momentum during the Kennedy years to grow the country with international policies, winning the space race, and winning the race to wealth. Who knew it would come to this?

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» "sociopathic" Posted by: Olympiada
» RE: When is enough plenty? Posted by: Lathor
There never an L.Ron Hubbard around when you need one.
Posted by: aswgt@ix.netcom.com on Aug 26, 2005 8:37 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Is this a put-on? A "sensitive critique " of consumerism by a renowned Psychiatrist???

OK, I sympathize. I can see why Dr. Whybrow would want to become an Author. Psychiatry is a depressing, underpaid profession. And then there's the jokes

"I wear this stethasope to I can sit with the other doctors in the lunchroom."

What do you call a Psychiatrist? The waste of a perfectly good physician !!

So if a Psychiatrist decides he'd rather write a superficial book about pop-sociology ... then for example about, oh, "Cognative treatiment of TeenAge Depression -- What a Parent Can Do" ... well, there's so many CSWs writing books on mental illness and what to do about it -- why not?

A Shrink's-eye view of America might be interesting ... about a useful as a Cop's-eye view ... narrowly focussed, but distorted. Neither profession is encouraged to read literature or philosophy except to find convenient labels for bad behaviors. And now, the DSM IV relieves Pschiatrists of knowing even that much Liberal Arts. In fact, these days, they are pretty much required to reject subjectivite analysis and describe their cases entirely in terms of DSM diagnostic criteria check lists and number coded pathologies.

Unbeknownst to them, over on the other side of Campus, out of sight of the pre-Med majors, the Lib Arts underdergrads have been vaporing about the evils of consumerism

"Getting and spending we lay waste our powers
"Too little in Nature we see that is ours "

-- and of over eating -- for the past 150 years at least.
Plato was sermonizing on the lazy, materialistic, over-eating lifestyle of his fellow Athenians circa 375 years BCE. ... as every Hippie and Buddhist missionary will point out, given half a chance.

Oh well. Publishing is a crazy business ... but it might make a welcome change for a psychiatrist.

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» "I Believe" vs "What Is" -- Posted by: aswgt@ix.netcom.com
» RE: Are you missing the point? Posted by: Mewsician
» RE: Are you missing the point? Posted by: AngryWhiteFemale
» RE: Are you missing the point? Posted by: aswgt@ix.netcom.com
We're killing ourselves with economics
Posted by: crz53 on Aug 26, 2005 8:38 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
I think the root of this problem (as with so many of our societal ills), lies primarily in our "chosen" economic system. What really matters is right there in the name: CAPITALism. Capital - money, material wealth - that is what the system deems important, and as such we deem it important. SOCIALism, on the other hand, places the importance on society (read:people). It says that business exists to serve and meet the needs of society, not the other way around.Now, don't take this as an endorsement of Soviet-style, state-run, bureaucratic socialism. I would simply like to see a society and economic structure that values people and relationships more than material shit.

For moreinformation on how to drop out of the unwinnable rat race, check out "www.simpleliving.net".
- Mike Lorenz

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» this is very funny! thanks Posted by: Olympiada
» It's not socialism Posted by: crz53
Not so black and white.
Posted by: kittynboi on Aug 26, 2005 9:40 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Yes, obsessing over things and status and consumption can be bad, but it's not nearly as unhealthly, I think, as living like some sort of ascetic devoted to family, community, and mediocrity.

I LIKE things, I LIKE owning stuff, I'm not a punk rocker and I have no soul. If material things are all that makes me happy, thats just how I am. But being creative, artistic, and expressing my appreciation for the world makes me happy too, and I suspect that with all the talk of family and the like, artistic creativity and the like would be even more despised by this person and those who agree with him than the most excessive consumerism.

Refraining from consumption means depriving myself not only from the tools I need for artistic expression, but the manifestations of culture, such as comics, music, film, manga, anime, travel, food, information, learning, and experience.

I won't give up my freedom and my ability to artistically express myself in the name of anti consumerism, and I'll never stop being gay just to embrace right wing family values in the name of anti consumerism either. This person would probably have us return to a legally enforced "sabbath".

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» RE: Not so black and white. Posted by: kittynboi
» RE: Not so black and white. Posted by: haoleboy
» RE: Not so black and white. Posted by: kittynboi
» Yup. Posted by: nickptar
» RE: Yup. Posted by: kittynboi
» I have no soul Posted by: Olympiada
» RE: I have no soul Posted by: kittynboi
» You argue a strong point Posted by: Olympiada
» RE: You argue a strong point Posted by: kittynboi
» RE: You argue a strong point Posted by: Olympiada
» RE: You argue a strong point Posted by: kittynboi
» the noble savage idea Posted by: Olympiada
» RE: I have no soul Posted by: mazur
» positivists Posted by: Olympiada
» RE: positivists Posted by: mazur
» the staunchest materialists Posted by: Olympiada
» Beat Mediocrity! Consume More! Posted by: decembrist
» toned down now Posted by: decembrist
» RE: toned down now Posted by: kittynboi
» RE: Not so black and white. Posted by: Mewsician
» RE: Not so black and white. Posted by: kittynboi
» RE: Not so black and white. Posted by: Mewsician
» RE: Not so black and white. Posted by: kittynboi
» RE: Not so black and white. Posted by: Mewsician
» RE: Not so black and white. Posted by: kittynboi
It's not just individual, it's institutional
Posted by: iremember on Aug 26, 2005 9:57 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
There should be a greater empahasis here on the extrapolation of the individual desire for more to it's institutional level--insatiable corporate greed. Companies close perfectly productive and profitable enterprises here in the US because they can make even more profit in Mexico, then they run from Mexico to China to make even more money. No matter what they do, no amount of money will ever be enough. This is most glaring with the CEO's, like Michael Eisner of Disney, who pay themselves hundreds of millions of dollars, more money that they could ever spend, more than their children could ever spend. I remember a quote from one of the Koch brothers, of Koch Petroleum, a crooked couple of greedy bastards who, of course, solidly suppoert the Busheviks. After being caught stealing oil from Indian reservation wells, he said he doesn't want more money--he wants ALL the money. Our insatiable greed as a nation will never end volutarily. It will take an economic collapse to accomplish it.

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Very Good
Posted by: nakis on Aug 26, 2005 10:28 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
What a great article and so many great posts. So many well though out writings on the different aspects of the psychology of consumerism and the affects of our current mode. I had to smile. Thanks.

I just wanted to add basically a compliment to a few thing said in regard to the powers that be and how they influence consumerism in America.
Industry and government in America require rampant capitalism to sustain the current economy. Our whole US business structure is built upon us buying stuff. But US business is now floating on air. Air that is created by the action of consumerism. If consumerism slows down enough the force of air created by that consumerism diminishes enough business will come crashing down along with the economy. Rampant capitalism requires and ever growing consumption of resources and products. Nothing is eternal and everything has limits. But capitalism ignores this fact and believes it can sustain itself.
With this in mind it is the job of industry and government to sell the idea that we need to consume all kinds of products. That competition is the only way for an economy to function. That socialistic principles do not function.

The author does not maintain that the out of control consumerism is only a result of the minds of the people thankfully. The high level of irresponsible consumerism is mostly caused by the exploitation of the natural weakness of the human mind by industry and government as it serves their purpose for creating wealth.
Sure we have a responsibility to ourselves. We make our choices but we are constantly bombarded with advertisements and propaganda to support our continued buying of objects we don't need.

This doesn't mean that we should stop buying stuff completely and join a cloistered religious group or live in communes. Please do if you wish of course. But we should ask ourselves if what we are buying is really what we need. Or is how we live our life compliant to a sustainable future for ourselves and our descendants.

To me, the authors article is just a call to question what we do. Buy that DVD if you really like the movie. But is the box recycleable if the DVD goes bad? Do you really need to own Gigli? Or is it just an impulse?
Do you want a car that doesn't use gasoline and doesn't produce pollution or do you want a hummer that gets under 10mpg at times?

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» RE: Very Good Posted by: realmuzik
II
Posted by: nakis on Aug 26, 2005 10:29 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Will you be happier with that abscizer? Riendeer lawn ornament? 10 hour marathon of Happy Days? Working 10hours, working out 2hours,and putting in some computer work before bed?
Some of the happiest people I know have a flower and herb farm that sell their products at a farmer's market.

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» Happiness Posted by: Olympiada
Thoughts on community and social climbing
Posted by: davelwhite on Aug 26, 2005 10:45 AM   
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My two thoughts about this article are:

(1) Family and community have already degenerated. This doesn't mean that I am advocating some "traditional family". I think some changes to the family such as gender equality, equal rights for GLBT and other alternative family forms, and so forth are wonderful and important. But at the same time as these good things have been happening, we have been losing other types of ties that would be helpful and important. The definition of friendship in a 1755 dictionary was "the highest degree of intimacy," and friends today who expressed devotion, affection, or interest in shared projects in the way that is traditional would be marked as "clingy" by our current culture that sees most friendships as temporary. Meanwhile, the definition of family itself has of course changed to focus on spouse and children rather than including aunts, uncles, cousins, etc. So this process is well under way.

(2) In my life I have noticed you don't have to be attached to material things to behave in a way very similar to "materialism." Instead of going after flashy cars and houses, a lot of liberals I know go after an endless series of university degrees, or travel, or moving frequently in search of "themselves," etc. And they have no time for friends either, or for "smelling the roses" as it were, and look down on the people who value such things in much the same way as the house-and-car devotees. It's not so much that getting lots of degrees or traveling a lot is BAD, as that the people who do so so often look down on people who make the decision to make time for friends and community. They think we aren't ambitious enough, and don't realize how much they sound like somebody with a Lexus who is sneering at your reliable old Honda Civic.

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60 Years of Conditioning
Posted by: diof09 on Aug 26, 2005 10:58 AM   
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How many ads have we been peppered with over at least the last 60 years that keep repeating: life SHOULD BE easy, convenient, no sweat, simply by JUST BUYING SAID PRODUCT. How can one not internalize something they would like very much to believe? Perhaps I missed it, but does this author dig a little deeper and investigate what forces are at work that tap into our basest desires to enrich their pocket books? I actually think that's why the corporate world tolerated unions... for a while, it put money into American workers pockets so they'd head off and buy la-z-boys, fancier TVs, cars etc. Now I'm not saying we are just drones that have no brain to control this, but anything that does require effort means that we will probably look for an easier solution sooner or later. The tipping point in this fragile corporate-worker balance (in my view) was when Medicare allowed the health care racket to get out of control and health premiums skyrocketed. Corporations decided that the cozy relationship between high wages and consumerism might not work to their benefit and they looked to the world citizen to fulfill their worker/consumer paradigm but as our massive trade imbalance indicates, the rest of the world hasn't been so thoroughly conditioned to consume (yet). I just think this author is not seeing the entire elephant here and could have written a better story taking a much wider scope.

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» RE: 60 Years of Conditioning Posted by: Mewsician
Live Smartly, Not Cheaply
Posted by: Toff on Aug 26, 2005 11:00 AM   
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I agree with this article quite a bit.

The vast majority of America feels the need to compete with the "neighbors/friends/strangers" for the perceived status that certain objects give them. I have to many friends that can't even live paycheck to paycheck. If you havn't seen them for a bit, they always tell you about all the neat new things that they purchased. I'm usually silent at times like that.

I've lived my entire life this way, some say cheaply, I say smart. I have most of the normal objects that people have but I don't go overboard and I research everything before I make a purchase to make sure its the best quality vs $$.

I got tired of working stupid jobs to pay for college and refused to take out loans so I joined the Air National Guard which payed for college. I managed to get my Bachalors & Masters degree with zero debt and without my parents paying for it either. I'm rather proud of that.

When it came time to purchase a place to live I skipped the 2500+ sf houses that everyone else was buying and instead bought a small 745 sf condo with cash I had saved up. Without children I had no need of all that space. Who wants to pay taxes, heat and cool all of that anyway?

Even a family of 4 has no need for a $30,000+ vehicle. My used 4 door, 155,000 mile Acura Integra gets me from point A to B just as well as your SUV does and MUCH more cheaply.

My life is very free BECAUSE I have no debt. Its not without its drawbacks tho. Because I am free of financial burdans, I do tend to leave jobs to easily (in Houston Texas). Its always because the owner starts lying and trying manipulate the employees. I have yet to get a job that I believe in tho I am still trying.

Just live smartly, not cheaply.

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"How Can I Be Sick? I Don't Feel Bad. . ."
Posted by: monkeywrench on Aug 26, 2005 11:05 AM   
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A terrific article, and it has made me want to read his book.

Dr. Whybrow hit on one of the greatest reasons as to why our gluttonous culture persists: advertising. How many people realize that when they have watched four hours of television, they have actually been influenced by ONE FULL HOUR of advertising? Add to that the advertising that tumbles out of every envelope we open and every publication we read, that is plastered on thousands of billboards, storefonts, public transportation, and now private autos, and it's a miracle we're as balanced as we are.

We're being screamed at by advertisers every waking minute of every single day, and we fail to see the insanity of this because it has accumulated so gradually, much like the experiment where a frog in water will not try to escape and will end up boiling to death, if you just raise the temperature gradually enough. Our collective temperature is continuing to gradually rise as well, and like Dr. Whybrow, I fear that if we cannot bring it down, this fever will not break until it kills the patient.

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» RE: Advertising Posted by: RayP
Elwood Anderson
Posted by: eaanders on Aug 26, 2005 11:13 AM   
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I think the bottom line here is that people are flawed and take actions that fit their circumstances. When you're scratching to survive you need all the help you can get and family, clan, and friends become very important. When you have free time and plenty of resources people do what they enjoy doing. Conspicuous consumption is a transitory phenomona usually engaged in mostly by those who have been previously deprived.
We need not return to only communion with family and friends to be happy. A bit of moderation is needed and there is a lot to be gained by exploring what our abilities and intellect can achieve when given ample freedom to choose our activities.
The real culprit in the change we see is the ability to travel and communicate rapidly. We should take advantage of this to experience other cultures and attitudes and discourse with people of widely varying opinions and experience instead of remaining mired in ancient religions and close family and clan relationships. A quick look at the red and blue states say a lot about who has achieved more freedom and what they are doing with it.

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» RE: lwood Anderson Posted by: Mewsician
Thank You!
Posted by: Asses of Evil on Aug 26, 2005 11:59 AM   
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I've been thinking this for some time now, glad to see a book is addressing this. The ever-expanding Me Me Me Culture of Acquisition will explode under its own weight sometime soon, but not before creating millions and millions more adherents to its credo.

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GHClint
Posted by: ghclint on Aug 26, 2005 1:22 PM   
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If anyone wants to change their habits or help others change, I suggest forming or joining a "Simplicity Circle." For help doing that please read "The Circle of Simplicity" by Cecile Andrews and or go to www.seedsofsimplicity.org.

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U turn
Posted by: ande3 on Aug 26, 2005 1:37 PM   
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I here what the author is saying about making a u turn. In the future I am sure people will begin to see human relationships as more valuable than material goods. In urban areas one can already see this trend since many of the families are dependent on their extended families for their well being.

The u turn I made today was to get rid of my cell phone and go with a simple land line. Tommorrow I don't know, but what will be your u turn for the day?

nahurry gibber gibber...

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THANK GOD SOMEBODY'S WRITING ABOUT IT
Posted by: Mewsician on Aug 26, 2005 1:45 PM   
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Great book/interview, and there's NEVER been a time when this author's thoughts were more desperately needed. I join the ranks of those posting here who can say that part of why they so enjoyed reading this piece was that it ratifies their own viewpoints so completely. At 47, I have stopped letting it bother me that I'm considered by so many to be some kind of unambitious, out-of-the-loop freak because of how I live my life - which I do according to the very tenets addressed by this book. For years, I have told people that the center of my life is my friends and my family, and I've made my choices accordingly. I drive a 10-year-old Civic rather than buy a new car this year so I am free to spend money on plane tickets to visit those who give my life its meaning. My spouse and I stay in our modest home despite the enormous amount of equity we presently have in it, equity that the conventional wisdom would tell us should be tapped for "moving up" - and we spend our time pursuing what interests us - genealogy, antiquing, reading. I look around in horror at what I see, and above all at how simple the answer to the ills of so many appears, to me, to be: JUST KNOCK IT OFF. It's not worth it!

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agitator church and state
Posted by: eileen_flmng on Aug 26, 2005 1:52 PM   
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don't you ever wonder that ones soul is born thru lifes struggles? experiences? that we live a life to create a soul that is beautiful and in love with life? Christ said he came that we would have life to the full: abundant life.-john 10:10
and Father Fox [ A NEW REFORMATION www.WisdomUniversity.org] agrees that we are here to love life.

Maybe you can read Walt Whitman? He understands the soul as a lover-physical and sexual.
I think so too.
the institution just doesn't get it.
www.wearewideawake.org

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» RE: agitator church and state Posted by: kittynboi
» RE: ones soul:TO O, from e Posted by: eileen_flmng
Classist bull
Posted by: Nheduanna on Aug 26, 2005 2:41 PM   
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"The poorer people are those who are much more open to eating a very high carbohydrate diet and taking no exercise, and they're the ones who're getting Type II diabetes and hypertension and all the difficulties which go along with overeating. So I think there is a social difference there."

Perhaps the poorer people can only afford a high-carb diet and because they may work 2 or 3 jobs don't exactly have the opportunity or bucks to spend quality time at the gym.

Overall the article is dead on, but this last bit was just short of racist. Classism must still be PC.

Grrrrr

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» RE: Classist bull Posted by: Mewsician
» Poor people and diet Posted by: Olympiada
» RE: Poor people and diet Posted by: kittynboi
» RE: Poor people and diet Posted by: Olympiada
» RE: Poor people and diet Posted by: kittynboi
» elitist Posted by: Olympiada
» RE: elitist Posted by: MegOnTheMountain
» RE: elitist Posted by: MegOnTheMountain
» RE: elitist Posted by: MegOnTheMountain
» RE: elitist Posted by: MegOnTheMountain
» Ignorance Posted by: Olympiada
» RE: elitist Posted by: kittynboi
» Snark Professional Posted by: Olympiada
» No snark zone Posted by: Olympiada
» RE: No snark zone Posted by: MegOnTheMountain
» RE: Poor people and diet Posted by: wearesilhouettes
» Natural Healing Remedies Posted by: Olympiada
It's a needle in the arm
Posted by: ccbite on Aug 26, 2005 3:33 PM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
This is an excellent article and the questions it poses are not easy to answer. Because of the way economies are increasingly correlated with one another globally, we (and the rest of the world) will find ourselves in a very difficult situation when US consumption begins to flag. In a way, we are damned if we throttle back consumption (we don't live in isolation and other economies rely on us for their economy) and we're damned if we don't (scarcity of resources). In some ways, for all the wonderful (and overdue) social changes occuring in the 1960's, I wonder if the rush of social change may have reduced society's collective 'resistance' for immediate gratification ... perhaps accelerating it, so to speak. I find myself watching TV and just shaking my head at the widgets that are pitched 24 hours a day. When I think of all the natural resources businesses use to prototype and then deliver a finished product (and only a fraction of those make it to market or break even), I begin to get offended by these products that add zero incremental value to the betterment of society. Do we really need fifteen competing brands of can openers?

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Non-believer
Posted by: moenbailey on Aug 26, 2005 6:09 PM   
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I do not agree with parts with this article. In 28 years of working closely with people in their homes, schools and businesses, I have not witnessed the positive traits this author has projected on Americans. I have too much first-hand knowledge of dishonest individuals and conspiring groups. Some, I know to have defrauded individuals and organizations of hundreds of millions of dollars.

And there is plenty of other evidence: Several years ago the LA Times reported a survey of bankers and financial services personnel who had control of people's assets. The question was posed to them: If they could steal every penny from a retired couple, leaving them to die destitute, but no one would ever know, would they do it? The results of the survey were that 70% of the respondents replied that they would indeed rip off the poor senior citizens if assured they could get away with it.

According to the United States Government, in 1940, there was no resolve by the American people to help the Jews being slaughtered in the Holocaust. At this time the most hated people in the United States were Jews, even though the average American at that time had never met one.

Although it is well understood that the automobile congests and pollutes the air of every major metropolitan area in the United States, contributing to health problems of millions of Americans, and 40,000 to 50,000 people die a year in auto accidents, when given the choice to take mass transit, most Americans easily choose their cars, and, oh yeah, give me that 11 mpg SUV!

It should never be forgotten that we are a nation founded on the slaughter of an indigenous people and an economy ignited and fueled for over 200 years by the most brutal enslavement of fellow human beings known to man. We are the fruit of the poisonous tree.

Americans will not change until their greed and self absorption crush them like a bat smack on the head, but even then they will probably still just blame everyone but themselves for the choices that they made. Unfortunately for all the decent Americans, of whom there still are many, America is truly reaping what it has sown.

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» RE: Non-believer Posted by: kittynboi
Caught in a time warp?
Posted by: Sojourner on Aug 26, 2005 10:05 PM   
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Did you catch the figures in today's news about population growth in the undeveloped world? Population is growing five times faster there than in the rest of the world.

Isn't that just as dangerous (and by implication from what the good doctor writes, as sick) as our consumerism? If we consume five times more than the rest of the world (say, measured individually; don't quote my numbers) then those with a five-fold growth in mouths to feed are keeping up with us -- in a way. Just a different kind of a rat race.

If you think about it, without a future, there is no present, only memories for the old, and a rat race for those with nothing yet worth remembering. Someone once wrote a book about it, in the early '70s, as "The Pursuit of Loneliness." How did "life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness" become loneliness?

Just asking.

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» RE: Caught in a time warp? Posted by: kittynboi
» RE: Caught in a time warp? Posted by: philame
» RE: Caught in a time warp? Posted by: kittynboi
The illusion
Posted by: 404080 on Aug 26, 2005 10:52 PM   
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I used to get bothered when I saw people younger than me driving better cars, living in bigger homes and wearing newer clothes. I would try to ignore it, but it would gnaw at me subconciously.

Through my early 20s, I focused on either wasting my money on material possesions or in escapist entertainment all while convincing myself that one day I would magically have affluence fall in my lap.

It hasn't happened. Why? Because I haven't had the discipline, work ethic and willingness to sacrifice to make a secure financial future for myself, that's the problem with my generation.

The only difference the middle class person and most of the so called affluent is the latter group's ability to shoulder a bigger debt load and finance fancier toys. When the economy melts down and jobs are dissappearing, most people, including the doctors and lawyers, will be a few paychecks away from a serious wakeup call.

The danger is that so many people have so little net worth.

If you were to do some homework you would find that many 'upper class people' have little savings or investments, have little or no fincancial discipline, and have no contingency plans. The middle class and poor have bought into this as well, just look at the thriving payday loan, and 'bad credit/no credit loan' industries serving the poor segments of society.

So now that I have realized that most people who look affluent are really just indebtted, I don't feel so bad.

My lack of serious debt is not because of any nose-to-the grindstone work ethic and frugality, it's mostly because I screwed my credit at a young age, and no one will grant me any. In the long run I do feel this is really for the best because now if I want something I have to save for it. I'm like a 10 yr old kid learning the value of a dollar, squirrelling away my allowance in a jar for a new bike. Well when I get my new bike, it will be mine, and I won't have paid any interest to Citigroup.

Do yourselves a favour and get rid of your credit cards, store cards and gas cards. Go back over your bank and credit statements for the last 6 months and ask yourself how much was necessary and how much, if discretionary purchases, really contributed to your life meaningfully.

Then go to the library and borrow a book, some good fiction, not a self-help book. You do remember how to read don't you?

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So being ok is ok again?
Posted by: philame on Aug 27, 2005 6:37 AM   
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Great article. A Danish relative told me about this book some months ago when she visited me here in the US and was shocked that it's true - that we are manic.

This was comforting to read (not that I enjoy bad news!) but it confirmed for me that I'm alright and that I'm not the only American noticing this tendency.

Just a brief story: in business settings one is often asked "How are you?" and I always answer "Ok" or "alright" because that's honestly how I feel most of the time - somewhere in the middle. But this answer is rarely good enough! Most people are never satisfied with that answer and they say things "Just ok? That's too bad." or "OK? Are you satisfied with that?" I usually just offer a pathetic smile because I am confused about when being ok became a bad thing - but this article gave me the answer!

In Scandinavia, people see the middle of the emotional scale as a good place to be and when I was living there I found that boring at times (and it is), but now I miss that calm.

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No friends/lovers--use your CELL to get CALLS...
Posted by: fedupamerican on Aug 27, 2005 9:44 AM   
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Yet another sign of our money-hungry and spend, spend, spend society –
I just saw an ad on the Weather Channel this morning... instead of dialing up on your cell (which I am really getting sick of seeing people connected to) to get 'ringtones'
(which I think is one of the most pathetic examples of getting people to spend their money), you can now dial up and "GET SOME FRIENDS OR A POTENTIAL LOVER." You are guaranteed at least 10 calls from within your area to come in to your cell.

Wow! I could only think, there must be some very, very pathetically empty and greedy-ass people out there to think up this shit and that goes ditto for the ones who would actually make the calls.

What will "they" think of next to get people to part with their money and put it into "their" pockets?????

That's just outa control!!

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The Sky is not falling
Posted by: InvisiblePimpernil on Aug 27, 2005 2:13 PM   
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This article is basically a slam against capitalism and the ownership society. If anyone believes it, fine, throw away everything you own, including the clothes off your back. There, feel better now? Grab an apple.

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» RE: The Sky is not falling Posted by: monkeywrench
» RE: The Sky is not falling Posted by: InvisiblePimpernil
» RE: The Sky is not falling Posted by: Lathor
» RE: The Sky is not falling Posted by: wearesilhouettes
» RE: The Sky is not falling Posted by: InvisiblePimpernil
» RE: The Sky is not falling Posted by: kittynboi
» RE: Invisible Pimp... missing the point Posted by: InvisiblePimpernil
» Here's a Few Posted by: decembrist
» I surrender Posted by: Olympiada
» Go forth, learn, young man! Posted by: decembrist
» Head in the sand pimpy Posted by: Michiganman
» RE: Head in the sand pimpy Posted by: InvisiblePimpernil
» RE: Head in the sand pimpy Posted by: Lathor
» babble Posted by: decembrist
» thanks for the laughs! Posted by: Olympiada
» RE: The Sky is not falling Posted by: kittynboi
The Thinking Mind is the dis-ease . . .
Posted by: marknie on Aug 29, 2005 11:00 PM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
What a Beautiful expression of ones life experiences. Space, stillness and no thought are the only paths out. There is no inner-peace because there is no "inner" that is seperate. All is one with everything, one has only to observe without thinking, to know this. Just stillness and space. It is the only sane way to live. No judgement, nor seeking of anything. Seeking fulfills nothing. Desire builds Madness and Reverberates inside us, until we begin to harm others (ourselves). All of that "Desire" is our own invention and is also, all illusion. Feel instead of seeing or hearing. Do not attach to anything, especially thoughts in ones mind. Challenge everything. Be well my friends. Love to all

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To do, be or have....
Posted by: churchofone on Aug 30, 2005 12:26 PM   
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That is the question!


Must one HAVE something to know happiness?
Must one DO something to know peace?
Or can one just BE peaceful and happy?

I'm not saying that everyone needs to dump all their comforts and run off to become a monk, but rather that we are more mindful about our choices, and the impact they have on our individual and collective well-being.

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» collective well-being. Posted by: Olympiada