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'This Guy is a Modern-Day Hitler'
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Evil that warrants the large-scale killing of war needs a face. But that face cannot belong to some amorphous mass of an enemy population; in fact, it's a ritual for the president to offer assurances that civilians who may be caught in the crossfire are not among the Pentagon's targets. The bull's-eye must be painted on someone who links the nascent war to an indisputably justified one of the past.
For this purpose, Hitler's name has been pressed into service, intermittently, for decades. Pointed mentions of Nazi Germany and the Holocaust open floodgates of emotion, connecting a present-day foe with a regime that slaughtered millions of people near the fulcrum of the twentieth century. What helps to do the trick is the message that while horrors of the past cannot be changed, they can be prevented in the near future.
At a press conference on July 28, 1965, when President Lyndon B. Johnson spoke about the need to escalate the Vietnam War, he used a historical analogy. "We did not choose to be the guardians at the gate, but there is no one else," he said. "Nor would surrender in Vietnam bring peace, because we learned from Hitler at Munich that success only feeds the appetite of aggression. The battle would be renewed in one country and then another country, bringing with it perhaps even larger and crueler conflict, as we have learned from the lessons of history." And Johnson declared: "We just cannot now dishonor our word."
A beauty of the Munich analogy, as several of LBJ's successors found, was that it could seem irrefutable on its own terms. The comparison might be very useful for likening a certain government to a Hitlerian menace.
Since the Vietnam era, various leaders -- most famously Manuel Noriega, Slobodan Milosevic, and Saddam Hussein -- have been promoted as sufficiently evil to necessitate U.S. military action. Singling out a particular villain (while winking at, or even cooperating with, a range of other tyrants) is vital to laying the rhetorical groundwork for war. To demonize -- and that's just about a prerequisite for war -- requires picking and choosing. With dozens of governments engaging in torture and political repression every day, sometimes accompanied by systematic military atrocities, targeting a specific regime is a matter of White House policy priorities.
During the 1980s those priorities involved so much hostility toward the leftist Sandinista government in Nicaragua that the momentum of Washington's rhetoric carried it to absurd comparisons with the Third Reich. At a World Affairs Council session in Boston on February 15, 1984, Secretary of State George Shultz said: "I've had good friends who experienced Germany in the 1930s go there and come back and say, 'I've visited many communist countries, but Nicaragua doesn't feel like that. It feels like Nazi Germany.'"
Two weeks later, Boston University president John Silber, a member of the Bipartisan Commission on Central America appointed by President Ronald Reagan, likened Nicaragua's "overt violence" to Nazi Germany, without a mention that the U.S. government was subsidizing most of the violence in Nicaragua with aid to the Contra guerrilla army.
Iraq I: Demonizing an Ally
When Iraq's invasion of Kuwait on August 2, 1990, abruptly soured the cordial relations between Washington and Baghdad, the White House suddenly propagated analogies between the Baathist and Nazi regimes. "A half century ago, our nation and the world paid dearly for appeasing an aggressor who should, and could, have been stopped," President George H. W. Bush said. "We are not going to make the same mistake again."
Some commentators warned against the facile comparison. Syndicated columnist William Pfaff, based in Paris, wrote in mid-August that "Saddam Hussein is not Hitler, and to describe him as Hitler feeds hysteria and confusion." But for war planners in Washington, some hysteria and confusion were already proving to be quite helpful. Polls showed three-quarters of the American public in support of the large U.S. military deployment already under way to the Middle East. And, as a news story noted when September began, "Support for President Bush climbed from 58 percent to 76 percent in the three weeks after Iraq seized the small oil-rich country of Kuwait."
The Saddam-as-Hitler motif rapidly became a familiar pattern on the media wallpaper. "When he wasn't going after Congress, President Bush had a few choice words for Saddam Hussein," CBS newsman Charles Osgood intoned. "In a speech yesterday, Mr. Bush characterized the Iraqi leader's behavior as Hitler revisited."
During the fall 1990 congressional campaign, the president described Hussein as "a little Hitler." Meanwhile, the same analogy came from retired general William Westmoreland, former commander of U.S. forces in Vietnam, who spoke up as a guest on ABC's Nightline program: "You know, here in the 1990s, Saddam Hussein is the Hitler of the Middle East. And if we're going to give him a free rein and not stand up to him and not have the troops available to resist him, the Middle East is going to be in turmoil."
All in all, the LexisNexis media database shows that major American news outlets printed and aired comparisons between Saddam and Hitler on average several times each day during the 5 1â„2 months that led up to the Gulf War in mid-January 1991. But Saddam Hussein had long been a horrendous dictator: before, during, and after the Iran-Iraq war, which spanned most of the 1980s. Washington tilted toward Baghdad with tangible assistance in that conflict. Year after year, Saddam remained on good terms with the U.S. government, while negative press notices were sparse in the United States.
When the Iraqi invasion of Kuwait drastically changed Washington's view of Hussein, the mainstream American media had an epiphany about his unnerving resemblance to Hitler. Three years after the New Republic called for boosting U.S. military aid to Saddam in 1987, the influential magazine altered a cover photo of the Iraqi dictator to make his mustache look more like Hitler's.
Overnight, the doors in Washington had slammed shut for Saddam. As the Washington Post columnist Mary McGrory put it: "Iraq enjoyed special trade status up to the moment it invaded Kuwait and Saddam Hussein began to remind Bush of Hitler."
Mixed Messages in the Balkans
Some congressional Republicans and certain normally hawkish pundits voiced opposition to the spring 1999 bombing of Yugoslavia, perhaps in part because it was being spearheaded by a loathed Democrat in the White House. But they could do little to impede the kind of war momentum that they were accustomed to enhancing and applauding. When the air war began, the usual media forms of bombing euphoria kicked in, along with further extensive publicity about the suffering of ethnic Albanians in Kosovo.
Clinton administration officials and many journalists had cranked up appreciable spin machinery over the winter. Slobodan Milosevic was "the closest thing to Hitler Europe has confronted in the last half-century," wrote liberal Boston Globe columnist David Nyhan three weeks into 1999. Nyhan was among many pundits drawn to the nobility of the upcoming war. (Typically, he wrote that the Yugoslav president "has taken the audacious steps of countenancing the massacre of Albanian civilians in Kosovo, refusing access to the U.N.'s war crimes prosecutor, and has expelled an American diplomat who blamed the massacre on Serb authorities.")
Media records from the time reveal how well top Clinton administration officials and like-minded advocates stayed on message about similarities between Hitler and Milosevic. Hundreds of times, major U.S. media pieces addressed the matter, often in the form of news stories that reported such comparisons by officials without offering a critical counterview. Some commentators disputed the analogy, but the widespread media likening of Milosevic's tyranny to Hitler's seemed to burnish the evil of the Serbian president into the public mind. Overlaid on such narratives was a story line that presented war as an extraordinarily selfless option for NATO, with the United States leading the way.
The decade's huge quantities of U.S. media coverage about the Balkans included scant mention of what happened in August 1995 when the Croatian government -- with a bright green light from the White House -- sent in troops to inflict grisly "ethnic cleansing" on large numbers of Serbs living in the Krajina region. The president of Croatia, Franjo Tudjman, ordered the assault. Dubbed Operation Storm, it quickly drove at least 150,000 Serbian people from their homes in the Krajina.
Meanwhile, the American news media -- taking a cue from the Oval Office -- just shrugged. "The entire offensive was undertaken by the authorities in Zagreb with the support of the United States government," BBC correspondent Misha Glenny wrote. "President Clinton himself welcomed Operation Storm, suggesting that it may open the way to a solution of the Yugoslav conflict. The rest of the international community was visibly shocked by America's encouragement of Croatia."
But the U.S. news media weren't shocked. After all, the White House said the slaughter and expulsion of Serbs from the Krajina was okay; nothing to be alarmed about; no big deal. At the time Carl Bildt, who was a mediator for the European Union and a former Swedish prime minister, made a statement that years later was chilling to read: "If we accept that it is all right for Tudjman to cleanse Croatia of its Serbs, then how on earth can we object if [Boris] Yeltsin cleanses Chechnya or if one day Milosevic sends his army to clean out the Albanians from Kosovo?"
In early 1999 the White House scriptwriters cast Milosevic as the Führer and Serbs as Brown Shirts, period. The day before he ordered the start of the bombing, President Clinton gave a speech likening Slobodan to Adolf and drawing the kind of analogy that U.S. presidents bent on war have been unable to resist in modern times: "And so I want to talk to you about Kosovo today but just remember this -- it's about our values. What if someone had listened to Winston Churchill and stood up to Adolf Hitler earlier?" The Washington Post reported that "the president compared Milosevic explicitly to Hitler."
Hours into the missile strikes, Clinton "included such language as 'dictator' and 'genocide in the heart of Europe' to describe the Serbian nationalist's deeds." As the Post observed, "Clinton and his senior advisers harked repeatedly back to images of World War II and Nazism to give moral weight to the bombing." The heavy political freight ran parallel with profuse media accolades about allied bombing that would prevent a smaller version of the Holocaust from playing out.
When the bombing of Yugoslavia got under way, the Clinton administration initially played catch-up to attain the usual favorable wartime media treatment; big boosts came from a blitz of TV appearances by the secretaries of state and defense in the hours and days after the bombing began. Marlin Fitzwater, who had spoken for the White House during the Gulf War eight years earlier, drew on his spin-cycle expertise and adjudged the new PR moves to be "effective in the short term." Yet he found fault with the agenda-building for the latest war.
"The problem is they didn't start the communications until the bombs started falling," Fitzwater remarked, sounding a bit like a retired pro doing color commentary about the performances of the players on the field. "That's not enough time to convince the nation of a course of action. But it's helpful because it convinces people to give the government the benefit of the doubt."
Looking back with pride, the loquacious Fitzwater recalled a slick public-relations campaign he'd helped to shape. He reminisced that a few days before the Gulf War started, ABC did a kitchen-table interview with some people in Kansas -- and "every answer at that table reflected one of the reasons we had given for going in." Among the precepts Fitzwater mentioned was the idea that war is "easier for people to understand if there's a face to the enemy." In chronological order, he ticked off the names of "Hitler, Ho Chi Minh, Saddam Hussein, Milosevic."
From the vantage point of powerful offices near the banks of the Potomac, a faraway "local conflict" over "self-determination" was apt to seem like an abstraction. Another Hitler, in contrast, was a hefty concept, sellable in TV moments.
While the bombing continued in the early spring, so did the Milosevic-Hitler comparisons. The administration in Washington squandered no opportunity to lock onto Milosevic as the new incontrovertible enemy and pull the polemical trigger. Only a couple of months earlier, Secretary of State Madeleine Albright had described Milosevic as a leader who "wants to, at some stage, re-enter the international community."
But as April 1999 began, the Associated Press noted the extreme image makeover: "Now she portrays him as 'cruel and evil,' and caring of nothing except staying in power." And now the verbal targeting was carefully personalized: "Where once she criticized 'the Serbs,' 'them,' or 'Belgrade authorities' for intransigence, she and other senior officials speak as if the whole conflict were about NATO vs. Milosevic. Vice President Al Gore called him 'one of these junior league Hitler types' even as officials have stopped just short of calling Milosevic's actions 'genocide.'"
Analysis in the mainstream U.S. press included some sober reflections. Washington Post staffer Michael Dobbs, who had recently reported from the Balkans, wrote:
"While the Milosevic-as-Hitler analogy favored by Clinton and Albright makes for good rhetoric, it makes a mockery of history. It is certainly true that Milosevic's policies (which were matched by other nationalist leaders, notably Croatia's Franjo Tudjman) helped destroy the former Yugoslavia. And it's also true that tens of thousands of people have been killed as a result of the wars unleashed by Milosevic in Croatia, Bosnia and now Kosovo. At the same time, however, any comparison between the rump, Serb-led Yugoslavia and Nazi Germany is laughable. Yugoslavia is so weak militarily and economically that it could never pose a serious threat to its neighbors except, as in the present case, as a source of refugees and political instability. There is all the difference in the world between an expansionist totalitarian power like Hitler's Germany and a bankrupt police state like Milosevic's Yugoslavia."Yet, by the beginning of summer, the American media's thematic last word on Milosevic and the necessity of the seventy-eight-day bombing campaign was much closer to this pronouncement in a New York Daily News editorial: "With his blessing, Serb soldiers have drenched Kosovo with the blood of tens of thousands of Albanians and sent perhaps a million more fleeing in panic. Not since Hitler and Stalin has Europe witnessed such massive barbarism."
Iraq II: The Comparison Fits Like an Old Shoe
When the second Bush administration returned Saddam Hussein to the center stage of U.S. foreign policy, it was time to reprise countless stories about his evilness, while again eliding the cozy relationship that Hussein had long enjoyed with Washington. (When I accompanied former U.N. assistant secretary-general Denis Halliday to a private meeting in Baghdad with Iraqi deputy prime minister Tariq Aziz in late January 2003, Aziz glanced at the latest Time magazine, which Halliday had just given to him. Secretary of Defense Donald Rumsfeld was on the cover. "Rumsfeld has become quite a warmonger," Aziz said. "He did not seem so when he came and visited us in the 1980s.") The Iraqi dictator had not ordered an attack on another country since 1990, and his military capabilities had obviously diminished -- but comparing him to Hitler fit like an old shoe.
One of many politicians eager to keep putting it on was "moderate Republican" Christopher Shays, who repeatedly invoked memories of the Third Reich to justify an invasion of Iraq. Days before Congress passed the war resolution in October 2002, Shays went on MSNBC and used the Hitler analogy as part of a slick repertoire about Saddam.
"The burden of proof rests on those to prove that he hasn't continued his programs of mass destruction," Shays said. "That's where the burden of proof is. I've been in no classified briefing that said he has stopped his program. In every instance, he's moving ahead with it. And it's not one bomb. It's many. And we're talking about -- the only thing he's basically waiting for and trying to acquire is the enriched uranium or plutonium, the nuclear-grade material to make a bomb. It is about the size of a softball. You can touch it and it's not detectable. We will not allow Saddam Hussein to have nuclear weapons."
A minute later, Shays executed another smooth shuffle: "We're not talking about a criminal act that we have to prove in court. We're talking about the logic of events. Someone said to me, 'Prove that he will use his nuclear weapons.' To me, that's like saying, 'Prove Hitler's Germany was going to go into Poland.' We knew he went into Czechoslovakia. We knew he went into Austria. We knew he was building up his armament. We knew what he was about. We could never have proved he was going into Poland." An all-purpose formulation: When nothing need be proven, then no war need be justified, ahead of time or later on.
After more than two decades of representing a San Francisco area district in Congress, Tom Lantos was the ranking Democrat on the House International Relations Committee by the time an invasion of Iraq was on the near horizon. He was not to be outdone at conflating Baathist Iraq with the Third Reich, as though Saddam's forces were somehow comparable to Germany's Wehrmacht. In early October 2002, Lantos pulled out all the stops on Capitol Hill as he proclaimed: "Had Hitler's regime been taken out in a timely fashion, the 51 million innocent people who lost their lives during the Second World War would have been able to finish their normal life cycles. Mr. Chairman, if we appease Saddam Hussein, we will stand humiliated before both humanity and history."
Although spared such humiliation, avid supporters of the Iraq invasion were soon struggling to respond to a plethora of belated revelations and difficulties with the occupation. At that point, references to Hitler and other historic mass murderers still came in very handy. After a brief stint as the head of the U.S. government's "civilian operations" in Iraq during early days of the occupation, Jay Garner was ready when challenged while appearing before a House subcommittee in Washington.
"In response to criticisms about the administration's handling of the Iraq war, Garner compared Saddam to Adolf Hitler and Cambodian leader Pol Pot," reported United Press International. "He related his own experience seeing children's bodies being pulled from the mass graves of Saddam's 'killing fields.' This sort of response has become central to the Bush administration's messages in reply to criticism following the invasion of Iraq and still unanswered questions about the state of Saddam's alleged weapons programs."
During the same week as Jay Garner's testimony about bodies being exhumed from mass graves of Saddam's "killing fields," subscribers to the New York Review of Books were considering a new essay by Norman Mailer that served as a de facto retort.
Acknowledging that "the most painful single ingredient at the moment is, of course, the discovery of the graves," Mailer did not stop there. He went on:
"We have relieved the world of a monster who killed untold numbers, mega-numbers, of victims. Nowhere is any emphasis put upon the fact that many of the bodies were of the Shiites of southern Iraq who have been decimated repeatedly in the last 12 years for daring to rebel against Saddam in the immediate aftermath of the Gulf War. Of course, we were the ones who encouraged them to revolt in the first place, and then failed to help them. Why? There may have been an ongoing argument in the first Bush administration which was finally won by those who believed that a Shiite victory over Saddam could result in a host of Iraqi imams who might make common cause with the Iranian ayatollahs, Shiites joining with Shiites! Today, from the point of view of the remaining Iraqi Shiites, it would be hard for us to prove to them that they were not the victims of a double cross. So they may look upon the graves that we congratulate ourselves for having liberated as sepulchral voices calling out from their tombs -- asking us to take a share of the blame. Which, of course, we will not."Digging deeper into history, Mailer continued: "Yes, our guilt for a great part of those bodies remains a large subtext and Saddam was creating mass graves all through the 1970s and 1980s. He killed Communists en masse in the 1970s, which didn't bother us a bit. Then he slaughtered tens of thousands of Iraqis during the war with Iran -- a time when we supported him. A horde of those newly discovered graves go back to that period. Of course, real killers never look back."
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Posted by: LMNOP on Jul 27, 2005 4:15 AM
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Hitlers are no more rare than the opportunistic bacteria that putrefy a rotting corpse. They are everywhere, always, and if you die today, you will stink by tomorrow. Do we shriek, “putrefying bacteria!” in fear when we come across such a mess? No. And we need not point out one of the hundreds of millions (if not billions) of potential Hitlers when we see him. Nor should the actual brutal dictator (such as Stalin or Pol Pot) amaze us when he does rise to power or distract us in any way beyond neutralizing him. What deserves our study and concern is the manner by which a polity comes to be susceptible to such exploitation and the means to prevent or reverse such a condition.
So, hearing G. H. W. Bush or his spawn call Saddam or anyone else in their crosshairs a Hitler should be without effect except to alert us to the fact that someone is trying to manipulate us into accepting and committing an impending violent action without compunction.
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» RE: HITLERS ARE EVERYWHERE
Posted by: trutex
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Posted by: Pepper on Jul 27, 2005 4:58 AM
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In additon, how did Hitler know enough about what would happen sufficiently to create the uniforms and have the gestapo conveniently in place when the Reichstag was burned? Exactly! Need I say more??? Now we (the USA) have a civilian department under the military. Homeland SEcurity is under the NOrth American Military Command. Totally against everything we believe in. Nice, huh???
Forget all those other bums, its this bum I am most worried about since he has far more power to conclude his evil plan than any of those others did.
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» RE: There is only one modern day Hitler and that is Bush!
Posted by: royrogers
» Torture YES, Hitler NO
Posted by: AdamSelene40
» RE: There is only one modern day Hitler and that is Bush!
Posted by: mjm3iii
» RE: There is only one modern day Hitler and that is Bush!
Posted by: bonapartist
» RE: There is only one modern day Hitler and that is Bush!
Posted by: royrogers
» RE: There is only one modern day Hitler and that is Bush!
Posted by: fjames
» RE: There is only one modern day Hitler and that is Bush!
Posted by: Exlib
» stop pretending to be intelligent pepper
Posted by: sensitiveguy
» Valor -- the Barbarian's Virtue
Posted by: AdamSelene40
» RE: stop pretending to be intelligent pepper
Posted by: ffej nitram
» RE: stop pretending to be intelligent pepper
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» RE: stop pretending to be intelligent pepper
Posted by: Ellie1
» RE: stop pretending to be intelligent pepper
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» RE: stop pretending to be intelligent pepper
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Posted by: ORENDA on Jul 27, 2005 5:52 AM
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Evil rarely shows its face as the ugliness it truly is. If I remember correctly It was not commonly known what was going on in those camps in WW2, at least not at first. Reminds me a bit of America's off shore detention area for suspected "terrorists". Hitler too picked an enemy so as to rally his supporters . Hummm let me think did our government EVER prove a connection between the 911 terrorists and Iraq? Also as stated in this article Saddams "evil" ways never bothered any politicians until just recently.
What about all the other despots in this world are we now going to preemptively strike at them too?
What about our own bloody history is the American government going to finally own up to that?
The" american way" is fraught with bloody sacrifice from the war against the Native American peoples where they were shuffled off to "camps" and the sentiment "the only good Indian is a dead one" prevailed. What about the African Americans whose ancestors were treated like property used as slaves? Are the politicians in Washington DC prepared to make amends for there predecessors Hitler like ways?
In my opinion this war with Iraq is no more than a fight for oil. With so many dead and us still over there will the history books soon write that Bush is nothing much better than a modern day version of Hitler, an evil that should've been stopped much sooner. Time will tell.
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» Comparing Bush to Hitler?
Posted by: sensitiveguy
» RE: Comparing Bush to Hitler?
Posted by: AdamSelene40
» RE: Comparing Bush to Hitler?
Posted by: Ellie1
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Posted by: Exlib on Jul 27, 2005 6:22 AM
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But take heart dear readers, the one exception to this rule is that the administration of George W. Bush is open game. You can compare him to Hitler all your little heart desires.
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» RE: There are exceptions of course
Posted by: Crazy H
» RE: There are exceptions of course
Posted by: Ellie1
» RE: There are exceptions of course
Posted by: sensitiveguy
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Posted by: Tonyy on Jul 27, 2005 6:41 AM
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» RE: tonyy
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» RE: tonyy
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» RE: tonyy
Posted by: Exlib
» RE: tonyy
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» RE: tonyy
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» RE: tonyy
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» RE: tonyy
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» RE: tonyy
Posted by: heftysmurf
» RE: tonyy
Posted by: Exlib
» RE: tonyy
Posted by: heftysmurf
» Exlib, you've got it all wrong..........
Posted by: Diecash1
» To be more precise
Posted by: Senqi
» RE: To be more precise
Posted by: Exlib
» RE: To be more precise
Posted by: royrogers
» RE: To be more precise
Posted by: AdamSelene40
» 911 a timeline
Posted by: expat in tokyo
» RE: 911 a timeline
Posted by: Exlib
» RE: tonyy
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» RE: tonyy
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» RE: tonyy
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» Starting Wars
Posted by: AdamSelene40
» libs are on the wrong side again!!!!
Posted by: sensitiveguy
» RE: libs are on the wrong side again!!!!
Posted by: heftysmurf
» Good stuff smurf.......
Posted by: Diecash1
» RE: libs are on the wrong side again!!!!
Posted by: sensitiveguy3
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Posted by: Crusader Rabbit on Jul 27, 2005 8:22 AM
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1800, 1900, 2005... nothing has changed because the majority of the U.S. people still believe that bigotry, lies, theft, slavery, rape and murder are all perfectly OK if done in the name of religion for the profit of self of country--and fully support the behaviors based on those amoral beliefs. (everyone in and the government of US must be Christian or else; 'Nuke Iran & Iraq'; anything OK for the corporate bottomline, etc)
The shrubett (aka Bush II) is the perfect mirror of our society.
If you doubt this, find out what the ratings are for hate radio, TV, & internet. He has overthrown our Constitution, nullified two elections, blatantly lied to everyone, started an illegal war to profit friends & family, rescinded environmental, labor and reproduction freedom laws and there are not millions marching in the streets. We sheep are obviously being lead where we are willing to go.
A special note:There are mounting objections to the Iraq war from the ultra-right Neo-cons. They don't mind that the war is on but some of their sons are over there (as opposed to the good management of the Viet Nam War in which mostly poor whites and persons of color were drafted) and they are fearful that if a draft happens all of their sons will go. But what they fear more than losing thier sons is that their daughters may wind up in the Army.
Daughters returning from military are not likely to support anyone who tries to limit equality for women. They are terrified this will overturn the Christian dogma of male dominance. (They must read a different version of the red letter New Testiment than I do. I never found an attributed quote that Jesus referred to women as less than or subject to men. That was said by Paul.)
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Posted by: nakis on Jul 27, 2005 8:50 AM
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As long as we elect these @$$holes to office we will always have more of the same. Unless we reform elections and the media we will continue to fall into the trap of destruction to support the desires of the wealthy.
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» RE: ight and Wrong
Posted by: royrogers
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Posted by: bellota on Jul 27, 2005 9:39 AM
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Are we being hypocritical? I just get tired of these wars, conflicts, etc being promoted for the purpose of saving the world in one area (when we well know that is not the case), while closing our eyes to that very situation in another region.
Mr. Bush you will do what you want anyway and color it how you wish....just quit blowing the smoke up our @$$ and invoking the wrong monster for the incorrect situation. (Hitler, Saddam, etc)
Remember the truth should be self evident and needs no window dressing.
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Posted by: revsuzanne on Jul 27, 2005 10:33 AM
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We have exhibited every possible pompous trait of imperialism.
The U.S. is the bully in the big schoolyard.
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» RE: Bush is a Hitler Replay
Posted by: Exlib
» RE: Bush is a Hitler Replay
Posted by: magistre
» RE: Bush is a Hitler Replay
Posted by: worldbfre
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Posted by: 0hmygod on Jul 27, 2005 11:33 AM
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The Meek Shall Inherit the Earth
Render Them Iraqis
War, You Can Bank on It
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Posted by: pjrsullivan on Jul 27, 2005 12:29 PM
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The reason the front man for the Anglo-banking establishment, Chamberlain, handed Hitler his wishes, was specifically because the London bankers knew that any real pressure on Hitler would cause him to fall, and the English bankers had put to much money into their boy Hitler to allow him to fall.
That 70 years later the Munich agreement is still used as a tool of deception is amazing. If Hitler had been a boxer he would of been hired to be the bum of the month. The same strategy is happening with Saddam, the Anglo-American-Zionist criminal cabal put him in as their bum of the month and made a ton of money, and now their bum of the month is like one of their earliers bums of the month. Build him up, to knock him down.
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» RE: Munich Revisited
Posted by: bonapartist
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Posted by: bonapartist on Jul 27, 2005 2:44 PM
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Hitler was up and until 1939 a darling of the west and if you look at newspapers from that period, even those in the US, they are at best mildly critical. The big praises of Hitler as the man who solved unemployment, combated the reds and brought general order out of Weimar chaos years were quite frequent.
Also, it seems that more pathetic dictators are more likely to be compared to Hitler. Milosevic got more Hitler references then Saddam, who got more then Kim Yong Il etc. After all, medias don’t want to risk the wrath of really powerful abroad, and politicians at home for that matter, by comparing say General Musharaff or Beijing potentates to Hitler.
Saddam was good young Hitler as he had some vague similarities and, unlike Fuhrer, he wasn’t able to put up a fight.
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» RE: Boy who cried “Wolf!”
Posted by: Exlib
» RE: Boy who cried “Wolf!”
Posted by: mr. joshua
» RE: Boy who cried “Wolf!”
Posted by: Exlib
» W's government is not like Hitler, but Stalin
Posted by: BigGuy
» RE: W's government is not like Hitler, but Stalin
Posted by: magistre
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Posted by: Exlib on Jul 27, 2005 9:47 PM
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I read about this and fast forwarded in my mind to the year 2000 and the Florida elections. The vote was close. The Democrats called for a recount. They didn't like the results and called for a manual recount. They didn't like the results. They did another manual recount, this time looking at the hanging chads or "undervotes" as they called them. They still didn't like the results so they called for another recount this time looking for "dimples" on the cards. What is a dimple anyway. And you can bet your bottom dollar that as soon as the first recount showed even one more vote for Gore, that would have been the end of the recounts. Just as once Hitler won the election, the calls of no confidence in the government stopped. Isn't that interesting.
How about if we talk about education? Hitler brought all the education system under the control of the state to use as an indoctrination system into the Hitler Youth Corp. Or some such thing. How does that contrast with W and the Republicans? They want to provide vouchers for parents to determine their own course of education to release them from the bondage of the state system. So, who is it that wants to keep the education system under the control of the state?
How about gun control? Didn't the nazis disarm the population? Especially the jews. Why? Well, an unarmed populace cannot defend itself against tyrrany can they. There are several references online to a gun control act of 1968 introduced by Senator Dodd, father of the current Senator Dodd, which if you held it up to the german gun control law, it would bear a remarkable resemblancee.
More to come.
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» RE: Historical comparisons to Nazism
Posted by: Exlib
» RE: Historical comparisons to Nazism
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» RE: Historical comparisons to Nazism
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» RE: Historical comparisons to Nazism
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» It feels like you're a fool!
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» RE: Historical comparisons to Nazism
Posted by: walldodger1969
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Posted by: Liberal on Jul 28, 2005 12:31 AM
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And, my final comment about George Bush, he went into Iraq for WMD's, right? How come I can't see any in Iraq? Where'd they go? Was he right? Or, did he just want to kill over 25,000 innocent iraqi's?
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» RE: Bush is a sadistic war-crazed bastard -- and should be stopped, immediately!
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Posted by: FlapJackSeven on Jul 30, 2005 3:14 AM
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Posted by: sensitiveguy3 on Jul 31, 2005 2:51 PM
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Who are we to fight a war on terror?? maybe boxer or kennedy or pelosi can start a bill to subsidize them with taxpayer money to help the terrorists out.You guys are right on track!!!!
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» Don't listen to the Voices, Joan ...
Posted by: AdamSelene40
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Posted by: AdamSelene40 on Aug 1, 2005 8:33 AM
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to have read just ONE cannonical history ... say Shirers's "Rise and Fall of the Third Reich" ... and to have visited one Holocaust Museum ...
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Posted by: hotlipsin61 on Aug 1, 2005 1:03 PM
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We all know Hussein didn't send his army loose on the world, and build concentration camps in Syria, Lebanon; neither did Slobodan launch a blitzkrieg on the Balkans! Our analogies are invalid. But our invasion of Iraq was similar to the invasion of Poland in 1939; a lie was invented to attack a defenseless Slavic nation whereas Bush said Hussein had all these weapons the U.S. has.
But we should stop making these comparisons of Hitler to another fanatic.
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Posted by: nietgal on Aug 2, 2005 8:28 PM
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Then came the appropriate County convention. Surrounded by my neighbors. The conduct of the meeting was announced. They had a time limit, around 3 hours. So they conveniently packaged the 40 resolutions into 10 packets. They talked about the various contents and then asked for an "aye" vote. I thought it strange, no discussions? No "nay" vote? Where could I vote? Then some gentleman protested that there was no discussion. He was ignored. Then someone protested no "nay" vote, and they did it just once.
They interrupted the entire 3 hour session with speeches. One was from one who wrote a book about God in school. He spoke for what seemed like 45 minutes. Every packet of resolutions had a God vote in it. The neighbors were actually screaming and raising their arms like you see at revival meetings.
All I could see was "Heil Hitler". I'm retired but the next day, Sunday, I spent in bed absolutely scared to death from what I saw all around me the day before. I just wanted to hide under the covers.
I was active in internet news groups at the time. I wrote about all this in the group. One person said he was active in organizing the convention. He said to the effect "don't quit. we need people like you." :)
I don't know how the Dallas County Democratic Convention went that year. That was the year Clinton first ran for President.
That's why I think we need to see the bible in public schools. A bible that includes: TaNaK, Apocrypha, New Testament, Koran.
A little humor here: if we do this, then the Koran which is considered by some to be the Final Testament is superceded by the Book of the Latter Day Saints because God/Allah came to the USA in 1827.
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Posted by: LMNOP on Jul 27, 2005 4:15 AM
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Hitlers are no more rare than the opportunistic bacteria that putrefy a rotting corpse. They are everywhere, always, and if you die today, you will stink by tomorrow. Do we shriek, “putrefying bacteria!” in fear when we come across such a mess? No. And we need not point out one of the hundreds of millions (if not billions) of potential Hitlers when we see him. Nor should the actual brutal dictator (such as Stalin or Pol Pot) amaze us when he does rise to power or distract us in any way beyond neutralizing him. What deserves our study and concern is the manner by which a polity comes to be susceptible to such exploitation and the means to prevent or reverse such a condition.
So, hearing G. H. W. Bush or his spawn call Saddam or anyone else in their crosshairs a Hitler should be without effect except to alert us to the fact that someone is trying to manipulate us into accepting and committing an impending violent action without compunction.
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» RE: HITLERS ARE EVERYWHERE
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Posted by: Pepper on Jul 27, 2005 4:58 AM
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In additon, how did Hitler know enough about what would happen sufficiently to create the uniforms and have the gestapo conveniently in place when the Reichstag was burned? Exactly! Need I say more??? Now we (the USA) have a civilian department under the military. Homeland SEcurity is under the NOrth American Military Command. Totally against everything we believe in. Nice, huh???
Forget all those other bums, its this bum I am most worried about since he has far more power to conclude his evil plan than any of those others did.
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» RE: There is only one modern day Hitler and that is Bush!
Posted by: royrogers
» Torture YES, Hitler NO
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» RE: There is only one modern day Hitler and that is Bush!
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» RE: There is only one modern day Hitler and that is Bush!
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» RE: There is only one modern day Hitler and that is Bush!
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» RE: There is only one modern day Hitler and that is Bush!
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» RE: There is only one modern day Hitler and that is Bush!
Posted by: Exlib
» stop pretending to be intelligent pepper
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» Valor -- the Barbarian's Virtue
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» RE: stop pretending to be intelligent pepper
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Posted by: ORENDA on Jul 27, 2005 5:52 AM
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Evil rarely shows its face as the ugliness it truly is. If I remember correctly It was not commonly known what was going on in those camps in WW2, at least not at first. Reminds me a bit of America's off shore detention area for suspected "terrorists". Hitler too picked an enemy so as to rally his supporters . Hummm let me think did our government EVER prove a connection between the 911 terrorists and Iraq? Also as stated in this article Saddams "evil" ways never bothered any politicians until just recently.
What about all the other despots in this world are we now going to preemptively strike at them too?
What about our own bloody history is the American government going to finally own up to that?
The" american way" is fraught with bloody sacrifice from the war against the Native American peoples where they were shuffled off to "camps" and the sentiment "the only good Indian is a dead one" prevailed. What about the African Americans whose ancestors were treated like property used as slaves? Are the politicians in Washington DC prepared to make amends for there predecessors Hitler like ways?
In my opinion this war with Iraq is no more than a fight for oil. With so many dead and us still over there will the history books soon write that Bush is nothing much better than a modern day version of Hitler, an evil that should've been stopped much sooner. Time will tell.
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» Comparing Bush to Hitler?
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Posted by: Exlib on Jul 27, 2005 6:22 AM
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But take heart dear readers, the one exception to this rule is that the administration of George W. Bush is open game. You can compare him to Hitler all your little heart desires.
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» RE: There are exceptions of course
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Posted by: Tonyy on Jul 27, 2005 6:41 AM
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» RE: tonyy
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» RE: tonyy
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» RE: tonyy
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» Exlib, you've got it all wrong..........
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» To be more precise
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» RE: To be more precise
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» RE: To be more precise
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» 911 a timeline
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» RE: 911 a timeline
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» RE: tonyy
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» RE: tonyy
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» Starting Wars
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» libs are on the wrong side again!!!!
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» RE: libs are on the wrong side again!!!!
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» Good stuff smurf.......
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» RE: libs are on the wrong side again!!!!
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Posted by: Crusader Rabbit on Jul 27, 2005 8:22 AM
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1800, 1900, 2005... nothing has changed because the majority of the U.S. people still believe that bigotry, lies, theft, slavery, rape and murder are all perfectly OK if done in the name of religion for the profit of self of country--and fully support the behaviors based on those amoral beliefs. (everyone in and the government of US must be Christian or else; 'Nuke Iran & Iraq'; anything OK for the corporate bottomline, etc)
The shrubett (aka Bush II) is the perfect mirror of our society.
If you doubt this, find out what the ratings are for hate radio, TV, & internet. He has overthrown our Constitution, nullified two elections, blatantly lied to everyone, started an illegal war to profit friends & family, rescinded environmental, labor and reproduction freedom laws and there are not millions marching in the streets. We sheep are obviously being lead where we are willing to go.
A special note:There are mounting objections to the Iraq war from the ultra-right Neo-cons. They don't mind that the war is on but some of their sons are over there (as opposed to the good management of the Viet Nam War in which mostly poor whites and persons of color were drafted) and they are fearful that if a draft happens all of their sons will go. But what they fear more than losing thier sons is that their daughters may wind up in the Army.
Daughters returning from military are not likely to support anyone who tries to limit equality for women. They are terrified this will overturn the Christian dogma of male dominance. (They must read a different version of the red letter New Testiment than I do. I never found an attributed quote that Jesus referred to women as less than or subject to men. That was said by Paul.)
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Posted by: nakis on Jul 27, 2005 8:50 AM
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As long as we elect these @$$holes to office we will always have more of the same. Unless we reform elections and the media we will continue to fall into the trap of destruction to support the desires of the wealthy.
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» RE: ight and Wrong
Posted by: royrogers
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Posted by: bellota on Jul 27, 2005 9:39 AM
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Are we being hypocritical? I just get tired of these wars, conflicts, etc being promoted for the purpose of saving the world in one area (when we well know that is not the case), while closing our eyes to that very situation in another region.
Mr. Bush you will do what you want anyway and color it how you wish....just quit blowing the smoke up our @$$ and invoking the wrong monster for the incorrect situation. (Hitler, Saddam, etc)
Remember the truth should be self evident and needs no window dressing.
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Posted by: revsuzanne on Jul 27, 2005 10:33 AM
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We have exhibited every possible pompous trait of imperialism.
The U.S. is the bully in the big schoolyard.
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» RE: Bush is a Hitler Replay
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» RE: Bush is a Hitler Replay
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» RE: Bush is a Hitler Replay
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Posted by: 0hmygod on Jul 27, 2005 11:33 AM
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The Meek Shall Inherit the Earth
Render Them Iraqis
War, You Can Bank on It
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Posted by: pjrsullivan on Jul 27, 2005 12:29 PM
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The reason the front man for the Anglo-banking establishment, Chamberlain, handed Hitler his wishes, was specifically because the London bankers knew that any real pressure on Hitler would cause him to fall, and the English bankers had put to much money into their boy Hitler to allow him to fall.
That 70 years later the Munich agreement is still used as a tool of deception is amazing. If Hitler had been a boxer he would of been hired to be the bum of the month. The same strategy is happening with Saddam, the Anglo-American-Zionist criminal cabal put him in as their bum of the month and made a ton of money, and now their bum of the month is like one of their earliers bums of the month. Build him up, to knock him down.
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» RE: Munich Revisited
Posted by: bonapartist
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Posted by: bonapartist on Jul 27, 2005 2:44 PM
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Hitler was up and until 1939 a darling of the west and if you look at newspapers from that period, even those in the US, they are at best mildly critical. The big praises of Hitler as the man who solved unemployment, combated the reds and brought general order out of Weimar chaos years were quite frequent.
Also, it seems that more pathetic dictators are more likely to be compared to Hitler. Milosevic got more Hitler references then Saddam, who got more then Kim Yong Il etc. After all, medias don’t want to risk the wrath of really powerful abroad, and politicians at home for that matter, by comparing say General Musharaff or Beijing potentates to Hitler.
Saddam was good young Hitler as he had some vague similarities and, unlike Fuhrer, he wasn’t able to put up a fight.
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» RE: Boy who cried “Wolf!”
Posted by: Exlib
» RE: Boy who cried “Wolf!”
Posted by: mr. joshua
» RE: Boy who cried “Wolf!”
Posted by: Exlib
» W's government is not like Hitler, but Stalin
Posted by: BigGuy
» RE: W's government is not like Hitler, but Stalin
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Posted by: Exlib on Jul 27, 2005 9:47 PM
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I read about this and fast forwarded in my mind to the year 2000 and the Florida elections. The vote was close. The Democrats called for a recount. They didn't like the results and called for a manual recount. They didn't like the results. They did another manual recount, this time looking at the hanging chads or "undervotes" as they called them. They still didn't like the results so they called for another recount this time looking for "dimples" on the cards. What is a dimple anyway. And you can bet your bottom dollar that as soon as the first recount showed even one more vote for Gore, that would have been the end of the recounts. Just as once Hitler won the election, the calls of no confidence in the government stopped. Isn't that interesting.
How about if we talk about education? Hitler brought all the education system under the control of the state to use as an indoctrination system into the Hitler Youth Corp. Or some such thing. How does that contrast with W and the Republicans? They want to provide vouchers for parents to determine their own course of education to release them from the bondage of the state system. So, who is it that wants to keep the education system under the control of the state?
How about gun control? Didn't the nazis disarm the population? Especially the jews. Why? Well, an unarmed populace cannot defend itself against tyrrany can they. There are several references online to a gun control act of 1968 introduced by Senator Dodd, father of the current Senator Dodd, which if you held it up to the german gun control law, it would bear a remarkable resemblancee.
More to come.
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» RE: Historical comparisons to Nazism
Posted by: Exlib
» RE: Historical comparisons to Nazism
Posted by: Exlib
» RE: Historical comparisons to Nazism
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» RE: Historical comparisons to Nazism
Posted by: bonapartist
» It feels like you're a fool!
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» RE: Historical comparisons to Nazism
Posted by: walldodger1969
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Posted by: Liberal on Jul 28, 2005 12:31 AM
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And, my final comment about George Bush, he went into Iraq for WMD's, right? How come I can't see any in Iraq? Where'd they go? Was he right? Or, did he just want to kill over 25,000 innocent iraqi's?
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» RE: Bush is a sadistic war-crazed bastard -- and should be stopped, immediately!
Posted by: sensitiveguy3
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Posted by: FlapJackSeven on Jul 30, 2005 3:14 AM
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Posted by: sensitiveguy3 on Jul 31, 2005 2:51 PM
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Who are we to fight a war on terror?? maybe boxer or kennedy or pelosi can start a bill to subsidize them with taxpayer money to help the terrorists out.You guys are right on track!!!!
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» Don't listen to the Voices, Joan ...
Posted by: AdamSelene40
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Posted by: AdamSelene40 on Aug 1, 2005 8:33 AM
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to have read just ONE cannonical history ... say Shirers's "Rise and Fall of the Third Reich" ... and to have visited one Holocaust Museum ...
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Posted by: hotlipsin61 on Aug 1, 2005 1:03 PM
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We all know Hussein didn't send his army loose on the world, and build concentration camps in Syria, Lebanon; neither did Slobodan launch a blitzkrieg on the Balkans! Our analogies are invalid. But our invasion of Iraq was similar to the invasion of Poland in 1939; a lie was invented to attack a defenseless Slavic nation whereas Bush said Hussein had all these weapons the U.S. has.
But we should stop making these comparisons of Hitler to another fanatic.
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Posted by: nietgal on Aug 2, 2005 8:28 PM
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Then came the appropriate County convention. Surrounded by my neighbors. The conduct of the meeting was announced. They had a time limit, around 3 hours. So they conveniently packaged the 40 resolutions into 10 packets. They talked about the various contents and then asked for an "aye" vote. I thought it strange, no discussions? No "nay" vote? Where could I vote? Then some gentleman protested that there was no discussion. He was ignored. Then someone protested no "nay" vote, and they did it just once.
They interrupted the entire 3 hour session with speeches. One was from one who wrote a book about God in school. He spoke for what seemed like 45 minutes. Every packet of resolutions had a God vote in it. The neighbors were actually screaming and raising their arms like you see at revival meetings.
All I could see was "Heil Hitler". I'm retired but the next day, Sunday, I spent in bed absolutely scared to death from what I saw all around me the day before. I just wanted to hide under the covers.
I was active in internet news groups at the time. I wrote about all this in the group. One person said he was active in organizing the convention. He said to the effect "don't quit. we need people like you." :)
I don't know how the Dallas County Democratic Convention went that year. That was the year Clinton first ran for President.
That's why I think we need to see the bible in public schools. A bible that includes: TaNaK, Apocrypha, New Testament, Koran.
A little humor here: if we do this, then the Koran which is considered by some to be the Final Testament is superceded by the Book of the Latter Day Saints because God/Allah came to the USA in 1827.
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