COMMENTS: 68
Readers Write: Women Waiting To Exhale
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In her story, feminist author/activist Baumgardner reported on the Exhale clinic in Oakland, Calif., which runs a non-judgmental post-abortion talk-line that focuses on "supporting women's experiences, rather than legal rights or lobbying."
Baumgardner also mentioned other abortion-themed projects currently being unveiled by women across the country. From zines like Emily Barcklow's Our Truths/Nuestras Verdades, to Web sites like I'm Not Sorry and Pregnancy Options, to documentary films such as The Abortion Diaries and the author's own Speak Out, Baumgardner noted that the growing number of women talking openly about the conflicting emotional impact of abortion is part of a growing cultural shift "in the national conversation. From 'Keep your laws off my body' to...talk about feelings and sadness, and even (gasp) whether fetal life has value."
Of course, the idea of women who have had abortions debating "whether fetal life has value" is controversial -- and not just for the anti-abortion contingent. It's especially divisive terrain among pro-choicers, who have traditionally downplayed abortion's ethical ambiguities in favor of focusing on the procedure's legal accessibility and safety.
"I'm not surprised at all by the response," says Baumgardner via e-mail. "People have a lot to say about this issue. Obviously, my bias is toward the people who think it's high time we had this conversation more publicly. But I'm intrigued by the people who think that I -- and my sources -- have simply bought into right-wing brainwashing."
The lively comments provoked by Baumgardner's article moved us to highlight them in a forum of their own.
Malkaa began a mini-debate when she wrote, "I was appalled and disappointed in your article about counseling after abortion. Jennifer has bought into right-wing propaganda. Most polls show that the overwhelming reaction to abortion is relief... I was especially taken aback by the statement that women who have an abortion because they couldn't afford another child feel awful about it. That is a blatant lie for most of us...What is wrong with our young people today?"
Reader Xenacat agreed: "This article is the most appalling example of right-wing propaganda cloaked in phony concern for women that I've seen in a long time. Right-wing religious groups have long played up the 'counseling' aspect, the feelings of 'sadness,' etc. It is merely another manipulative tool to get women to buy into the anti-reproductive rights camp."
She continued: "The truth of the matter is that the overwhelming majority of women are just grateful that they can end a pregnancy, period. It is pretty cut and dry: the sense of relief is far greater than...thoughts of motherhood...Enough with the conservative guilt tripping. We don't need this tripe in AlterNet."
Ouch. Thankfully, many readers felt differently. Terihu noted, "Yes, the INITIAL reaction includes relief, but for MANY women -- not all, but many -- there are other complex feelings mixed in... What is so awful about acknowledging the wide range of experiences with abortion? Your rigidity, claiming your own experience as the 'right' one, is as damaging as the psycho right-wingers insisting that it's a sin. Not everyone falls neatly into these two ends of the spectrum...there are shades of gray that both sides are purposely choosing to ignore. If your goal is to be a compassionate advocate of women's rights, you should be more open to listening to real women's talk about their real lives."
Draylinjae added: "I applaud the author's fearless exploration of all of the honest aspects of peoples' feelings. She's promoting a forum for the total acceptance...of women's feelings. Everyone is different. Every BODY is different. Just because you felt relief doesn't mean someone else can't feel horrible following an abortion, even if it IS the best decision for that woman. Why should we be afraid to admit that deciding to have an abortion is difficult? For most women, I think it is a difficult decision, but one that needs to be protected."
Gargirl agreed: "Women who seek abortions need all their emotional responses...accepted by those of us who are ardently pro-choice. They deserve our help and loving concern, not our censure. They are not mind-controlled dupes of the right wing; they are women experiencing painful emotions after a medical procedure...The fact that you experienced no mixed emotions does not invalidate the emotions of other women... Having mixed emotions can happen over choosing which of two parties to go to on a Saturday night, why are you shocked that some women experience mixed feelings over ending a pregnancy?"
Some readers simply shared their stories. Cin9713 wrote, "It's been thirty years since my abortion, and I have never looked back with anything except profound gratitude! Guess that makes me a really bad person, but at least I'm an honest one. I suspect more people feel this way [than admit to it]. It is somewhat unacceptable to feel glad you made this decision."
And CJC piped in, "I'm a lucky woman who had two healthy planned pregnancies. But I'm not surprised, much less dismayed, that women feel ambivalence and even grief over reproductive experiences. Women grieve if they want children and are not successful. They grieve after miscarriages...It is NOT 'right wing' to talk about this."
Evenstar reflected on her mother's abortion experiences: "My mother had two abortions when I was a child. She already had three children, and was in poverty. While she expressed relief at having the abortions, she still experiences pain over [them]... Because of the difficult choices she made, my siblings and I have all been able to come out of our poverty-stricken childhood as successful adults."
LizB, too, referred to the emotional hardships she's experienced since her own abortion years ago: "This article has opened a window in my soul that I didn't even know was shut. I am actively for abortion rights, and was for several years before I had to make my own choice. I have always had regret, not for the decision I made, but that I was in the position to have to make it. It is not the abortion I regret, but the unplanned pregnancy.
"I have dealt with this conflict alone for a long time. I do not speak of it because I'm afraid of playing into the anti-choicers' hands -- 'if you feel sadness, if you mourn, then it is murder.' Better to deny how you feel than to have the option taken away from you.
"When EXHALE goes national I will call. I've been waiting a long time for them."
Self-described "serious progressive" Smadams appreciated the "human language" of Baumgardner's article, and the subsequent dialogue it sparked on AlterNet. "This was the most nuanced, adult, complex...discussion I've seen about this topic in a long time. I consider myself a serious progressive, and I'd love to see progressives be able to talk about rights using human language, not just political language."
But (apparently pro-life) reader SENTINEL mocked the notion that Baumgardner's piece reflected right-wing arguments about the heavy emotional toll of abortion. SENTINEL wrote, "After getting an abortion, a large percentage of women develop serious guilt issues, and are often overcome with sadness...Many of these women will eventually change their thinking on abortion rights and join the legions fighting for life.
"Pro-choicers feel this movement must be squashed, so they try to nip these feelings of guilt and regret immediately by attracting guilt-ridden women into 'counseling' for their feelings. What they are really doing is trying to convince these women that they did absolutely nothing wrong and that there is no reason to feel they did anything against God and/or the...dignity of life."
Reader Papergirl also touched on the ideas of faith and religious upbringing in her reaction to Women Waiting to Exhale. "What if all our left-wing values are wrong? What if what our parents and our churches told us are right?" she asked. "Nobody wakes up one day and says, 'Gee, I think I'll go out and get pregnant just so that I can have this experience [of abortion].'
There are many things to consider, some of which include your upbringing and your community. As much as we would like to think we are liberated and the fetus is merely a bunch of unformed cells, many of us believe deep down...that this is a real person growing inside of us, and just maybe we [will]...answer to a higher power one day for the ending of this pregnancy. The questions are scary."
Finally, a lone male reader, Nakis, bravely shared his opinion: "I'm both pro-life and pro-abortion. I believe life must be respected, but no one has the right to tell someone what to do with her body. No two people are alike. It's not fair to categorize this article as being pro-right. Everyone handles tough decisions differently.... Family and friends don't always understand."
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Comments are closed-
Posted by: dennyduke@earthlink.net on Jun 7, 2005 7:03 AM
Current rating: Not yet rated [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Would someone like to volunteer to do some research? I thot it would be helpful for people wanting to join our effort, to post stuff like:
1) Congressional Districts and current imposters (ie: the guys/gals we need to overthrow).
2) URL's for Sec'y of State for each state, & specifically how to register a party & as a candidate.
3) Library or other sites where people can get info on relevant stuff, like law, laws, anything that might help people organize.
4) Links for the Links We Like page and to anything that might support our effort; ESPECIALLY links to How-To sites and references to How-To books we can list for people organizing in their communities, congressional districts, & states.
5) We need help with basic stuff like forming a Not-For-Profit org, PAC's (527?), fundraising, bookkeeping, &c
Any other suggestions?
I'll serve as kind of a traffic nerd (not a cop!!) for this stuff. I'm retired, so I have the time, & even some of the energy!!
http://home.earthlink.net/~us-nota/
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» RE: Hey! Wake up people!
Posted by: merryd
» RE: Hey! Wake up people!
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Posted by: nakis on Jun 7, 2005 9:37 AM
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But thanks for the compliment.
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Posted by: Ivan_K on Jun 7, 2005 9:41 AM
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» RE: What about men?
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» RE: What about men?
Posted by: lulu17
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Posted by: TagsNOLA on Jun 7, 2005 9:41 AM
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If anyone feels "bad" about an abortion, I wonder why that might be? Could it possibly be because abortion is murder of an innocent, defenseless human being?
The positon stated as "I'm against abortion myself but I wouldn't want to interfere with another person's 'right to choose' is breathtaking moral imbecility. Against abortion myself? Why? What is the harm of an abortion unless it either is or at least might be murder of an innocent human being? The position that abortion is ok because the unborn to be aborted is not truly a live human being is a question of biology. But the position that aboriton is a matter to be left up to the individual and not to society and public policy is just over the top. Society and the state have a legitimate interest in protection of human life. Common sense dictates that, in the event of any ambiguity as to the facts, innocent human life gets the benefit of the doubt. But if we are to follow the "personal choice" argument, just for a moment, lets take it to its logical extreme: "I might not choose to knock off the counter attendant in a convenience store and scoop the till myself but I wouldn't want to interfere with someone else's right to do so. That is a matter best left to the individual and his or her conscience."
As for me, I have no problem imposing "MY morality" on someone else. Laws against murder, assault, buglery, etc. represent an imposition of society's morals and mores on unwilling individuals. Is this wrong? I don't think so.
Abortion is child sacrifice on the "altar" of personal convenience, nothing more and nothing less.
Sincerely,
TagsNOLA
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» TagNOLA, you are ignorant of basic economic theory.
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» TagNOLA ignorant, continued
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Posted by: Bethany Grace
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Posted by: Bethany Grace
» RE: TagsNOLA
Posted by: Kym525
» The logic of the right: Make women PAY for sex with their freedom, happiness or health
Posted by: janvdb
» The logic of the right, continued . . .
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» RE: The logic of the right, continued . . . 1of2
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» RE: TagsNOLA
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» Some examples of 'Compassionate Conservatism' for TagsNOLA
Posted by: Kym525
» RE: Some examples of 'Compassionate Conservatism' for TagsNOLA
Posted by: TagsNOLA
» RE: Some examples of 'Compassionate Conservatism' for TagsNOLA
Posted by: Kym525
» RE: Some examples of 'Compassionate Conservatism' for TagsNOLA
Posted by: TagsNOLA
» RE: Some examples of 'Compassionate Conservatism' for TagsNOLA
Posted by: Kym525
» RE: TagsNOLA
Posted by: nakis
Comments are closed-
Posted by: frieda on Jun 7, 2005 10:50 AM
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Posted by: negrita7 on Jun 7, 2005 3:02 PM
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BUT, I do think that we need to steer clear from debating the rightness and wrongness of abortion as a procedure in the political arena (obviously, it's an important conversation within communities as we each shape our moral sense). I also think that pro-choice activists need to steer clear of the whole "when does life begin" conversation. The varying elements of faith and conviction and intuition that form these arguments are as strong as the science and the consequences. I think that in the political arena, abortion must be maintained as a right due to women not because of its rightness or "goodness", but because we must be sovereign over our own bodies. My abortion was a choice, as were my births, but it was also an act of sovereignty.
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Posted by: specom
» RE: Practical Politics
Posted by: Samantha Vimes
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» RE: Practical Politics
Posted by: negrita7
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Posted by: steinph on Jun 7, 2005 6:52 PM
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So, I remain totally pro choice, and aware of the deep grief the can come with having to make that choice. Sometimes, there is no "good" choice, only the best choice in a terrible situation.
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Posted by: philame on Jun 11, 2005 4:06 PM
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A poster to Baumgardner's article stressed the importance of sharing stories to the (continued) inclusiveness and vibrancy of the feminist movement. I'd like to extend that point to say that it is also key in protecting women's reproductive rights.
I haven't read Baumgardner's article so I could be repeating what has already been said, but sharing our stories is critical to putting human faces back into the debate about women's reproductive rights.
The last post above mine speaks volumes to the importance of sharing real life stories. All too often, when women's reproductive rights are discussed three things happen: 1) the woman who has chosen abortion is assigned the identity of a irresponsible harlot with no conscience, 2) is only permitted to feel one emotion - relief - or 3) an abstract, philosophical debate about the start of life ensues. In all three scenarios, real women get de-humanized and taken out of the debate.
I consider any act that affirms women's humanity a feminist act. I support the telling of these stories because they keep women's human faces in the debate, allow women a full-range of human emotion and most importantly they are POLITICALLY powerful! The debate is about WOMEN'S REPRODUCTIVE RIGHTS and sharing these personal stories is the best way to keep the public discussion on topic.
I applaud the women who have shared their stories here, at EXHALE and the many other forums on abortion because you help to keep the issue real.
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Posted by: morticia on Jun 13, 2005 9:17 AM
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What I felt after my illegal abortion was bitter, seething resentment at being sexually violated and manhandled at age 17 by two different disgusting old seedy "doctors" in their run-down, filthy "offices" in lousy, dangerous, dirty neighborhoods of major cities. I can still feel their ungloved fingernails scraping me during the "examination" and smell their foul breath on my face as they rubbed themselves against me while I was completely at their mercy.
Enough time has passed that people's memories are getting fuzzy. A generation of women have grown up in an era of safe, legal abortion, with no real notion of the reality of the pre-Roe era, when women were separated from existing medical technology because of cruel laws and ideology, and often died horribly because of it. The discussion of women's post-abortion anguish could benefit from a bit of perspective.
To read more, go to: motherjones.com Look for an article called "The Way It Was."
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Posted by: K.J. on Jun 17, 2005 11:47 AM
Current rating: Not yet rated [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
My husband felt an enormous amount of guilt, by the way. He felt guilt for being stupid enough to get pregnant, guilt for not being "a better provider" who could make enough to support a non-earning wife and baby at home, guilt for the pain and anguish and isolation I endured. He felt irresponsible for getting me pregnant, even though we were married, and for my day home alone trying to recover from the procedure. It also doesn't make him feel very good to keep a secret from his family. And he could never quite shake the shadow of a doubt that he had somehow "made" me get an abortion through some kind of pressure at some level. So there are some examples of the kinds of feelings men can have.
The worst part of all of this is that the complete lack of meaningful social conversation on the topic has left us feeling, all these years, like unworthy ogres. We were definitely stupid, and I have struggled with conflicting emotions ever since, but I am beginning to resent the silence. It is a pain all its own, like the abortion itself. It reminds me of the idiotic silence that used to surround cancer. Why do we have to do this, as a society, over and over? Health issues, race and gender politics, the really important things seem the most taboo.
God help us all.
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Comments are closed-
Posted by: dennyduke@earthlink.net on Jun 7, 2005 7:03 AM
Current rating: Not yet rated [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Would someone like to volunteer to do some research? I thot it would be helpful for people wanting to join our effort, to post stuff like:
1) Congressional Districts and current imposters (ie: the guys/gals we need to overthrow).
2) URL's for Sec'y of State for each state, & specifically how to register a party & as a candidate.
3) Library or other sites where people can get info on relevant stuff, like law, laws, anything that might help people organize.
4) Links for the Links We Like page and to anything that might support our effort; ESPECIALLY links to How-To sites and references to How-To books we can list for people organizing in their communities, congressional districts, & states.
5) We need help with basic stuff like forming a Not-For-Profit org, PAC's (527?), fundraising, bookkeeping, &c
Any other suggestions?
I'll serve as kind of a traffic nerd (not a cop!!) for this stuff. I'm retired, so I have the time, & even some of the energy!!
http://home.earthlink.net/~us-nota/
[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]
» RE: Hey! Wake up people!
Posted by: merryd
» RE: Hey! Wake up people!
Posted by: nakis
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Posted by: nakis on Jun 7, 2005 9:37 AM
Current rating: Not yet rated [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
But thanks for the compliment.
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Posted by: Ivan_K on Jun 7, 2005 9:41 AM
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» RE: What about men?
Posted by: Ivan_K
» RE: What about men?
Posted by: lulu17
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Posted by: TagsNOLA on Jun 7, 2005 9:41 AM
Current rating: Not yet rated [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
If anyone feels "bad" about an abortion, I wonder why that might be? Could it possibly be because abortion is murder of an innocent, defenseless human being?
The positon stated as "I'm against abortion myself but I wouldn't want to interfere with another person's 'right to choose' is breathtaking moral imbecility. Against abortion myself? Why? What is the harm of an abortion unless it either is or at least might be murder of an innocent human being? The position that abortion is ok because the unborn to be aborted is not truly a live human being is a question of biology. But the position that aboriton is a matter to be left up to the individual and not to society and public policy is just over the top. Society and the state have a legitimate interest in protection of human life. Common sense dictates that, in the event of any ambiguity as to the facts, innocent human life gets the benefit of the doubt. But if we are to follow the "personal choice" argument, just for a moment, lets take it to its logical extreme: "I might not choose to knock off the counter attendant in a convenience store and scoop the till myself but I wouldn't want to interfere with someone else's right to do so. That is a matter best left to the individual and his or her conscience."
As for me, I have no problem imposing "MY morality" on someone else. Laws against murder, assault, buglery, etc. represent an imposition of society's morals and mores on unwilling individuals. Is this wrong? I don't think so.
Abortion is child sacrifice on the "altar" of personal convenience, nothing more and nothing less.
Sincerely,
TagsNOLA
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» RE: TagsNOLA
Posted by: Kym525
» RE: TagsNOLA
Posted by: gargirl
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» RE: TagsNOLA 1 of 2
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» RE: TagsNOLA 2 of 2
Posted by: TagsNOLA
» TagNOLA, you are ignorant of basic economic theory.
Posted by: janvdb
» TagNOLA ignorant, continued
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» RE: TagNOLA ignorant, continued
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Posted by: Bethany Grace
» RE: TagsNOLA
Posted by: Kym525
» The logic of the right: Make women PAY for sex with their freedom, happiness or health
Posted by: janvdb
» The logic of the right, continued . . .
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» RE: The logic of the right, continued . . . 1of2
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» RE: TagsNOLA
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» RE: TagsNOLA
Posted by: Kym525
» Some examples of 'Compassionate Conservatism' for TagsNOLA
Posted by: Kym525
» RE: Some examples of 'Compassionate Conservatism' for TagsNOLA
Posted by: TagsNOLA
» RE: Some examples of 'Compassionate Conservatism' for TagsNOLA
Posted by: Kym525
» RE: Some examples of 'Compassionate Conservatism' for TagsNOLA
Posted by: TagsNOLA
» RE: Some examples of 'Compassionate Conservatism' for TagsNOLA
Posted by: Kym525
» RE: TagsNOLA
Posted by: nakis
Comments are closed-
Posted by: frieda on Jun 7, 2005 10:50 AM
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Posted by: negrita7 on Jun 7, 2005 3:02 PM
Current rating: Not yet rated [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
BUT, I do think that we need to steer clear from debating the rightness and wrongness of abortion as a procedure in the political arena (obviously, it's an important conversation within communities as we each shape our moral sense). I also think that pro-choice activists need to steer clear of the whole "when does life begin" conversation. The varying elements of faith and conviction and intuition that form these arguments are as strong as the science and the consequences. I think that in the political arena, abortion must be maintained as a right due to women not because of its rightness or "goodness", but because we must be sovereign over our own bodies. My abortion was a choice, as were my births, but it was also an act of sovereignty.
[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]
» RE: Practical Politics
Posted by: specom
» RE: Practical Politics
Posted by: Samantha Vimes
» RE: Practical Politics
Posted by: specom
» RE: Practical Politics
Posted by: negrita7
Comments are closed-
Posted by: steinph on Jun 7, 2005 6:52 PM
Current rating: Not yet rated [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
So, I remain totally pro choice, and aware of the deep grief the can come with having to make that choice. Sometimes, there is no "good" choice, only the best choice in a terrible situation.
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Posted by: philame on Jun 11, 2005 4:06 PM
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A poster to Baumgardner's article stressed the importance of sharing stories to the (continued) inclusiveness and vibrancy of the feminist movement. I'd like to extend that point to say that it is also key in protecting women's reproductive rights.
I haven't read Baumgardner's article so I could be repeating what has already been said, but sharing our stories is critical to putting human faces back into the debate about women's reproductive rights.
The last post above mine speaks volumes to the importance of sharing real life stories. All too often, when women's reproductive rights are discussed three things happen: 1) the woman who has chosen abortion is assigned the identity of a irresponsible harlot with no conscience, 2) is only permitted to feel one emotion - relief - or 3) an abstract, philosophical debate about the start of life ensues. In all three scenarios, real women get de-humanized and taken out of the debate.
I consider any act that affirms women's humanity a feminist act. I support the telling of these stories because they keep women's human faces in the debate, allow women a full-range of human emotion and most importantly they are POLITICALLY powerful! The debate is about WOMEN'S REPRODUCTIVE RIGHTS and sharing these personal stories is the best way to keep the public discussion on topic.
I applaud the women who have shared their stories here, at EXHALE and the many other forums on abortion because you help to keep the issue real.
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Posted by: morticia on Jun 13, 2005 9:17 AM
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What I felt after my illegal abortion was bitter, seething resentment at being sexually violated and manhandled at age 17 by two different disgusting old seedy "doctors" in their run-down, filthy "offices" in lousy, dangerous, dirty neighborhoods of major cities. I can still feel their ungloved fingernails scraping me during the "examination" and smell their foul breath on my face as they rubbed themselves against me while I was completely at their mercy.
Enough time has passed that people's memories are getting fuzzy. A generation of women have grown up in an era of safe, legal abortion, with no real notion of the reality of the pre-Roe era, when women were separated from existing medical technology because of cruel laws and ideology, and often died horribly because of it. The discussion of women's post-abortion anguish could benefit from a bit of perspective.
To read more, go to: motherjones.com Look for an article called "The Way It Was."
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Posted by: K.J. on Jun 17, 2005 11:47 AM
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My husband felt an enormous amount of guilt, by the way. He felt guilt for being stupid enough to get pregnant, guilt for not being "a better provider" who could make enough to support a non-earning wife and baby at home, guilt for the pain and anguish and isolation I endured. He felt irresponsible for getting me pregnant, even though we were married, and for my day home alone trying to recover from the procedure. It also doesn't make him feel very good to keep a secret from his family. And he could never quite shake the shadow of a doubt that he had somehow "made" me get an abortion through some kind of pressure at some level. So there are some examples of the kinds of feelings men can have.
The worst part of all of this is that the complete lack of meaningful social conversation on the topic has left us feeling, all these years, like unworthy ogres. We were definitely stupid, and I have struggled with conflicting emotions ever since, but I am beginning to resent the silence. It is a pain all its own, like the abortion itself. It reminds me of the idiotic silence that used to surround cancer. Why do we have to do this, as a society, over and over? Health issues, race and gender politics, the really important things seem the most taboo.
God help us all.
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