COMMENTS: 89
Robocops Employ Scary Crowd-Stopping Technology at Pittsburgh Protests
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After upgrades, the infamous "Puff the Magic Dragon" gunship from the Vietnam War is now the AC-130. "Non-Lethal Weaponry: Applications to AC-130 Gunships," observes that "With the increasing involvement of US military in operations other than war…" the AC-130 "would provide commanders a full range of non-lethal weaponry from an airborne platform which was not previously available to them." The paper concludes in part that "As the use of non-lethal weapons increases and it becomes valid and acceptable, more options will become available."
Prozac and Zoloft are two of over 100 pharmaceuticals identified by the Penn State College of Medicine and the university's Applied Research Lab for further study as "non-lethal calmatives." These Selective Serotonin Reuptake Inhibitors (SSRIs), noted the Penn State study, "…are found to be highly effective for numerous behavioral disturbances encountered in situations where a deployment of a non-lethal technique must be considered. This class of pharmaceutical agents also continues to be under intense development by the pharmaceutical industry…New compounds under development (WO 09500194) are being designed with a faster onset of action. Drug development is continuing at a rapid rate in this area due to the large market for the treatment of depression (15 million individuals in North America)…It is likely that an SSRI agent can be identified in the near future that will feature a rapid rate of onset."
In Pittsburgh last week, an enormously expensive show of police and weaponry, intended for "security" of the G20 delegates, simultaneously shut workers out of downtown jobs for two days, forced gasping students and residents back into their dormitories and homes, and turned journalists' press passes into quaint, obsolete reminders of a bygone time.
Most significant of all, however, was what Witold Walczak, legal director of the Pennsylvania ACLU, told the Associated Press: "It's not just intimidation, it's disruption and in some cases outright prevention of peaceful protesters being able to get their message out."
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Comments are closed-
Posted by: tony_opmoc on Sep 29, 2009 2:18 AM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
So the Long Range Acoustic Device, Mounted in the turret of an Armored Personnel Carrier, was used against pedestrians, merchants, journalists and residents.
Was the hearing of any of these innocent people including children in their own homes permanently damaged?
Does anyone in "authority" care?
Or is everyone in authority in the US, a ruthless fascist pig who considers the general human population in the same was as animals to be controlled on the way to the slaughter house.
The message is quite clear. Don't you dare protest. Don't you dare challenge our authority. We have got everything we need to control you.
Heil Hitler / /
Tony
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» RE: "but in neither case were any demonstrators present"
Posted by: Erin
» RE: "but in neither case were any demonstrators present"
Posted by: praedor
» CON'T: Here is a copy of the letter I just sent to the chief of Police in Pittsburg...
Posted by: CynicI
» Here is why the letter is going into the trash bin upon receipt.
Posted by: EncinoM
» Again making up facts,
Posted by: EncinoM
» RE: Here is why the letter is going into the trash bin upon receipt.
Posted by: tony_opmoc
» RE: I thought about that last sentence and decided its a statement of fact...
Posted by: tony_opmoc
» RE: I thought about that last sentence and decided its a statement of fact...
Posted by: aussidawg
» That is absolutely not true. Your right if your talking about the NEOCON repubs, but then...
Posted by: CynicI
» RE: That is absolutely not true. Your right if your talking about the NEOCON repubs, but then...
Posted by: EncinoM
» BINGO, absolutely, you hit that nail right on the head first time out.... UNITED WE STAND...
Posted by: CynicI
» RE: "but in neither case were any demonstrators present"
Posted by: Ian MacLeod
Comments are closed-
Posted by: HelperMonkey on Sep 29, 2009 2:37 AM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
So I think we're gonna see more of this non-lethal technology, and frankly it's frightening. It has severe implications for the public's ability to protest at all. Once this stuff starts getting used en-masse, it'll be pulled out right away as soon as people start gathering - just the way tasers seem to be used so easily nowadays. The use of these weapons on citizenry needs to be made unconstitutional, lest we end up in a real Brave New World.
Mark my words, we'll see a day where a privatized militia use this tech on the public in order to break up protests over corporate actions. All the ingredients are there already. Want to protest the latest coca-cola plant which is destroying your community by taking away all your water? Forget it, your ass is getting soma'd or your skin is getting fried, by a blackwater-esqe company your own tax dollars helped pay for.
Then again maybe it's a good thing. Maybe this is what it will take for the american public to actually do something about all the crazy shit going down in your police state right now. If that happens, then my thoughts are with you.
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» RE: life imitating fiction, life imitating life
Posted by: surfreality
» Please, do not call "contract killers (mercenaries)" Militia, since...
Posted by: CynicI
» RE: Please, do not call "contract killers (mercenaries)" Militia, since...
Posted by: EncinoM
» RE: How are you so sure that the "reflecive" mylar will protect you?
Posted by: Changling
» No, but you can microwave them.... heheehee....
Posted by: CynicI
» RE: I have a suggestion!
Posted by: Ian MacLeod
Comments are closed-
Posted by: LeonBNJ on Sep 29, 2009 3:35 AM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Making these devices worse it that innocent people as well as pets can be injured. Who knows what other enviromental affects are to beneficient animals. I hope protesters and innocents sue the hell out of the local government for injury including hearing losses and other injuries to themselves and their pets.
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» RE: Some 'non-leathal' devices are torture devices
Posted by: praedor
» RE: How many sued the SAVAK? GeStaPo? KGB?
Posted by: Changling
Comments are closed-
Posted by: whole2th on Sep 29, 2009 3:40 AM
Current rating: 3 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Would Ghandi and his demonstrating supporters have had their success with the Robocops and arsenal of crowd control techniques from hell (1984, Brave New World) at ready to stop the message?
Mainstream media controls the minds and hearts more subtly--with few alternatives (even AlterNet steers and biases subjects like 9/11 Truth) for public expression of dissent. Street & parks protest is an honored venue of expression in free countries throughout the world.
Goodbye First Amendment if we let this continue. Goodbye Constitution if we wimp out.
READ Cindy Sheehan's letter from Pittsburg WATCH video footage at WorldCantWait.org
SIGN this letter of outrage, to be sent to federal and PA authorities. Deadline 10-1-2009
CONTACT these officials:
Luke Ravenstahl: Mayor of Pittsburgh 412-255-2626
Nathan Harper: Chief of Police, Pittsburgh 412-323-7800
Ed Rendell: Governor of Pennsylvania 717 787-2500
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» I just made the calls, the police were as I expected, lied and laughed at my comments...
Posted by: CynicI
» The 911 "truth" Movement--Because if We Don't Disparage the Victims of 911, Who Will?
Posted by: GuitarBill
» RE: Listen to the man at the megaphone
Posted by: cascadia
Comments are closed-
Posted by: sdz on Sep 29, 2009 3:58 AM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
The general strike epitomizes non-compliance as a kind of tactic. It causes damage by the majority opting to not be where they, as individuals, ought to be.
Naturally, it always helps the many to defeat the few when military personnel refuse to follow barbaric orders!
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» Excellent suggestion and don't forget, resistance can occur on many different levels.
Posted by: CynicI
Comments are closed-
Posted by: Suzon on Sep 29, 2009 4:13 AM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Hope and change. Not unrealistic. Not impossible. But very difficult and frightening. Good for the guy in the blue shirt with the loudspeaker. And for the two girls who were thrown to the ground. And for the people with the courage to film.
Agreed that there may be times when crowd control is necessary, but where are the humane even pleasurable devices? Vanilla foam, anyone? Simple human decency is called for. Hope and change.
Making money is often a legally-sanctioned crime.
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» RE: The ones who have plans for us all
Posted by: Changling
» I can (unfortunately) answer this
Posted by: Dboy
Comments are closed-
Posted by: Erin on Sep 29, 2009 5:20 AM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
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» Yes, definitely worried, but NOT AFRAID, RATHER MAD..... anger is the first step in healing...
Posted by: CynicI
» RE: Yes, definitely worried, but NOT AFRAID, RATHER MAD..... anger is the first step in healing...
Posted by: tony_opmoc
» All very good points for how it is now... except for those corporations, which are most of the big..
Posted by: CynicI
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Posted by: americansheep on Sep 29, 2009 5:57 AM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
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Posted by: surfreality on Sep 29, 2009 6:31 AM
Current rating: Not yet rated [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
www.post-gazette.com/pg/09270/1001201-482.stm
So the response to a loud crowd is ear splitting noise?!
Wow.
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Posted by: TFYQA on Sep 29, 2009 6:36 AM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Of the country's 364 railroads, 89 went bankrupt. A total of 18,000 businesses failed in the first two years of the depression. Wages were cut, workers went on strike. Federal troops were used against workers and more than one hundred people were killed.
1874: UNITED STATES. When unemployed workers demonstrate in New York's Tompkins Square Park, mounted police charge into the crowd, beating men, women and children. Hundreds are injured. New York Police Commissioner Abram Duryee, is quoted as saying, "It was the most glorious sight I ever saw."
"A society whose citizens refuse to see and investigate the facts, who refuse to believe that their government and their media will routinely lie to them and fabricate a reality contrary to verifiable facts, is a society that chooses and deserves the Police State Dictatorship it's going to get." - Ian Williams Goddard
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» There is more to this history than you gave here, but it always is the same isn't it?
Posted by: CynicI
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Posted by: praedor on Sep 29, 2009 6:46 AM
Current rating: Not yet rated [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Surplus flak jackets are protection from rubber bullets and beanbags (at least for your torso). Knee pads, elbow pads, arm protectors, shin guards are also available and would offer much protection of those vulnerable areas (both "tactical" style or the type used by motocross and X-treme biking etc). As for the "pain ray"...a fine mesh metal screen (that you can see through) would offer protection. You could even get fancy (though uncomfortable) and patch up a jacket/raincoat and pants with the mesh (make sure to have something to cover your head/face).
Not sure what could be done about some of the goo weapons...possibly not much - avoid taking a full load and when in a situation that sees deployment of that crap, carry a lightweight chem defense suit (available cheap online!) and don it as the goo makes an appearance and avoid taking a full-on direct hit. You can then peel out of the suit...or carry a large rain poncho and dump it when nailed. You keep your "running" and movement clothing mostly clean with a disposable, protective, cheap outer protective shell.
Ear plugs PLUS sound protective ear muffs are enough to protect your hearing from 170db range jet engine noise (ex-military: been there) - it will also go a long way to squelching the effects of the various noise weapons.
One CANNOT allow the authoritarian goons have the final say nor last sadistic laugh. Be prepared to protest and disrupt REGARDLESS of their anti-democratic, anti-liberty, anti-freedom fascist toys.
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» RE: There are countermeasures to most
Posted by: wireup
» RE: There are countermeasures to most
Posted by: praedor
» RE: There are countermeasures to most
Posted by: aussidawg
» We've got a bad moon rising
Posted by: Dixie Dawg
» Here is something useful to read about body armor.....
Posted by: CynicI
Comments are closed-
Posted by: Gravitas on Sep 29, 2009 7:04 AM
Current rating: 1 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
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» RE: Secret Testing Then open testing Dark Mirror universe
Posted by: Changling
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Posted by: QQOblivion on Sep 29, 2009 7:22 AM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Now, THAT IS torture!
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» HAHAHAAHAA, now that is creative, see what I mean???
Posted by: CynicI
Comments are closed-
Posted by: plantland on Sep 29, 2009 7:26 AM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
The Constitutional Convention was held in Philadelphia, Pennsylvania.
Where was Pennsylvania's Democratic governor, Ed Rendell in this? Did countenancing Philadelphia's Mayor Wilson Goode's aerial drop of C4 and Tovex, military explosives, on residents during a stand-off in the 80's pave the way for him to allow these inhumane random tactics?
Shame on PA for allowing it. Shame on Penn State.
I hope the author is able to contact the visiting participants to let them know about the tecnologies used so that they can at least lodge protests after the fact.
There neeeds to be more coverage of this story, and attention paid to federal funding of
torture to withhold dissent.
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Posted by: ismac76 on Sep 29, 2009 7:43 AM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
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» RE: part of the value of these weapons is PSY OPPS
Posted by: sdz
» True, we have spent adnaseum assessing the problem, lets start brainstorming....
Posted by: CynicI
» RE: Now how to stop them before they stop us
Posted by: Changling
» The conventions taught us that they are no longer an option...
Posted by: CynicI
» RE: The ones allied against us planned long and hard
Posted by: Changling
Comments are closed-
Posted by: smf1403 on Sep 29, 2009 9:04 AM
Current rating: 4 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
YES, WE NEED TO PROTEST, WE NEED TO SPEAK OUT.
THAT SAID, OBAMA HAS NOT LET US DOWN.
WE HAVE LET OURSELVES DOWN.
WE VOTED FOR THIS ELITIST, HARVARD, RHETORIC-SPEWING, LYING THROUGH HIS TEETH, MONSTER.
FOLLOW THE MONEY NEXT TIME 2012.
BOTTOM LINE IS THE PRESIDENT HAS THE POWER.
LET'S GIVE THE POWER TO THE RIGHT PERSON WHO WILL STOP THIS INSANITY.
VOTE FOR DENNIS KUCINICH NEXT TIME.
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» True, but we have an obstacle course to go through way before then....
Posted by: CynicI
» RE: OBAMA WILL NOT STOP THIS TORTURE
Posted by: Dboy
» OK, I see your point
Posted by: smf1403
» Ok I see your point
Posted by: smf1403
Comments are closed-
Posted by: sanitysojourner on Sep 29, 2009 9:14 AM
Current rating: Not yet rated [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Many people are allergic, some fatally so, to opiates and the anti-depressants.
For those with any kind of inner-ear syndrome, the loud horn tactic could really make them drop in the streets. It would me.
To call these tactics "non-lethal" is, bottom line, a lie. How diverse has their "medical testing" been? Included a typical downtown street, say, in Manhattan?
Please, let's not buy the "non-lethal" language. Some did with "enhanced interrogation." These "non-lethal" tactics are far from that in large typical crowd, replete with children, elderly, ill. And also think "long-term effects." And when it comes to insurance, think 1) what would be covered if treatment is required and 2) what would be a "pre-existing condition?"
And would you take your child to a "peaceful protest" if these were around? Trust me, they wouldn't be around to sock it to the "birthers," "deathers" and those others who somehow managed to steal an existing word for a sexual act and turn it into a legitimate phrase that 1) I won't use but 2) the media happily prints/says everywhere.
Non-lethal? Prove it. With data. As in real data and medical studies. And take this list to your doctor and ask if any of these are good for you if you happen to be caught in these chemicals running out for a quick sandwich during your lunch break.
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Posted by: Brb007 on Sep 29, 2009 9:20 AM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
What our state and many other states do not advertise, is that our resources are depleted, non-existant or in Iraq and we have nothing of our own for the Guard to use, if we truly had a legitimate state emergency. My Brother, before his retirement, was in charge of one of our largest armories here in PA. He faught for over a year about the fudged numbers and lies that were being sent up about readiness, to the Commander in Chief and when our unit was deployed to Iraq for a second time, we had to borrow troops and equipment from 3 other states to have enough men and resources to send one full unit.
Why then, I would have to ask, do we waste these expensive resources, in an overkill display of force to terrorize a college campus, where the many videos available clearly show no violence? The riot squads trapped college kids into stair wells and blocks from both ends, leaving them unable to remove themselves to safety, then commanded them to disperse, all while shooting them with rubber bullets, pepper spray and tear gas. Videos clearly demonstrated several students injured and bleeding. One elderly woman, who was simply walking on a sidewalk, was bitten in the arse by a police dog, bloodied and injured, completely unprovoked!
I used to chuckle when I would read articles about the upcoming police state that America was on her way to becoming. I no longer find them humorous or an exaggeration. If this can happen in PA, it can and will happen anywhere. Our tax dollars are being used to confine us to "our place" as working slaves to support the will of the corporate fascism that has become the USSA. No more expectation of privacy, safety in your own home, freedom of movement and speech and no more peaceful demonstrating. We have few freedoms left in this country. How did we sit back and permit this to happen? How did we not see what they were doing with the Patriot Act and in the name of security for our homeland? It seems to me, the only thing they are protecting, is themselves and their corporate controllers, rendering us entrapped pawns only here to finance their will and domination!
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» RE: Some Important, Albeit Frightening Data Missing
Posted by: Dboy
Comments are closed-
Posted by: Paul_C on Sep 29, 2009 10:39 AM
Current rating: Not yet rated [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
The wealth gap is exploding at an exponential rate. That means that even if we educate ourselves or our children and try to make something of our hard work and intelligence it will simply be stolen from us by teams of lawyers from the big corporations, or simply outright stolen. Meanwhile:
Corporations will continue to drive down the standard of living by ever-increasing "worker productivity" efforts, which is a euphemism for more work for less pay.
Our militaristic security state is being turned against us and that will continue to regress as things get worse. Virtually all research dollars now are funneled through DARPA to target military technological advances that are being used to stabilize our corporate state. Meanwhile:
Our military budget is exploding into the stratosphere. Basically all federal dollars not being spent on Medicare/Medicaid/Social Security are being sucked dry by the military industrial complex. So they will grow in power and seek new "threats" to neutralize - that would be us.
Our Congress and President are so corrupted by corporate power that we are not even a part of the process anymore.
We have to slowly, but methodically extract ourselves from this corrupt capitalistic system of exploitation and violence. We have to substitute dogged resistance to everything the system stands for. We have to dedicate ourselves to becoming that "goo" that they are using on us!
We have to stop having children that we can neither afford nor can we give them a decent life.
Personally, I am turning away from the militarized, possessive University corporate scheme toward the open Freeware Community. This will give me the exposure and credibility I need to advance my career without being "owned" by crooks or greedy corporations. It will benefit everyone and ultimately I will be able to support myself by helping others.
Meanwhile I do what I can, writing Letters to the Editor (everyone contributing on this site should be doing this, it is very important) and participating here on Alternet.
Maybe Alternet could do a story on the Freeware Community model?
peace,
Paul
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» Starve them of that which gives them their power.
Posted by: rafaeltoral
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Posted by: debmcd on Sep 29, 2009 10:58 AM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
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Posted by: tazdelaney on Sep 29, 2009 11:33 AM
Current rating: 1 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
certain old synthesizers can be preset to infrasonic and ultrasonic levels. in fact, in the early 1970s, there was a CIA plan for assassinations, such as castro, via siply amplifying a preset roland SH-1250, i think it was. french sound-weapon studies as far back as the 1950s were disintegrating tanks...
tasers can be purchased by citizens, too. multiple-tentacle tasers, too.
then there's HERF. i first read of a herf gun in the early 90s. it was said that a fellow with a home-made herf gun put together from items to be had at a large hardware store had successfully fried the hard disk drives of an office just by walking through it. as this page and any google of the topic shows, these have a range of uses (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Directed-energy_weapon)
defenses? well, gasmasks in the event of chemtrailing. sheesh. run for the hills.
with governmental insolvency, food riots and martial law looming, it is imperative for citizenry to consider and act accordingly for their own protection. the rightwing is and has long since been doing so and they are another element for us to be concerned about. it is easy to imagine attacks on gay communities, blacks, hispanics, artist's ghettos and simple takeovers of regions in which we live.
that indian-killer george washington rightly said, "a democratic society cannot long exist in the presence of a standing army." and that was 220 years of standing army ago...
looking on the bright side, an honorable death is generally hard to come by. that might not be a problem in this future scenario.
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Posted by: logansafi on Sep 29, 2009 11:33 AM
Current rating: Not yet rated [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
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Posted by: chetdude on Sep 29, 2009 11:49 AM
Current rating: 3 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
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» RE: Work with them you will be "okay" otherwise...
Posted by: Changling
Comments are closed-
Posted by: tazdelaney on Sep 29, 2009 11:53 AM
Current rating: 2 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
as the government sees fit to wage war on the citizenry to protect the world-devouring oligarchs of such as WTO/IF/WorldBank/G20 (not to say that it hasn't been waging war on the citizenry since andrew jackson was president and ever since...), the proper, constitutionally correct, citizen response is to attack back in spades.
the current picture is increasingly dire. i won't do teh whole story here, but on 7/11/06, i was kidnapped, beaten, injected with god knows what multiple times and dropped at a hospital. the last thing i saw before being knocked unconscious from behind was a black van with flashing lights. 13 hours later i came to. suffice it to say that my health hasn't been the same since. they could more easily have killed me, being pros. no, just a message.
at first my wife and i thought this was due to some people we were suing over a stolen, very valuable business, an endless lawsuit now that they're enriched. but last year i learned that a fellow who'd supervised our early 2006 work on antiwar and war-crimes websites and related antiwar activities had been identically picked up when leaving the massive antiwar protest at the UN during the same period when i was attacked.
we learned through a friend of ours that NYPD is rife with moonlighting cops and shortly thereafter, a report came out about there being hundreds of aryan nation thugs and the like on the NYPD. some of these pros would do attacks for kicks, not even needing to be paid.
the terrible truth is that there are literally millions of these folks out there and the government is its core. time is running short til the food riots start in a nation bankrupted by warmongers and corporatists.
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» Try posting facts next time
Posted by: EncinoM
Comments are closed-
Posted by: DaBear on Sep 29, 2009 3:00 PM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Expect only more of this as the owning-class step up their war on the rest of us.
Yay, Pittsburg, land of the fuckhead Western Pennsylvanian neocon horde. I'm so glad I got outta the fucked up feudalist state.
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Posted by: mmckinl on Sep 29, 2009 5:41 PM
Current rating: 4 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Are people with legitimate grievances more or less likely to use their right of free speech to express their opinions when threat of violence and pain are likely?
These weapons are an abridgment of our First Amendment Rights ... Furthermore the meting out of collective punishment is a War Crime.
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» RE: These Weapons effect Everyone not just demonstrators ...
Posted by: Changling
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Posted by: eyeonit on Sep 30, 2009 8:24 PM
Current rating: 1 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Marshall Law is being practiced for a reason. The National Guard was deployed and attacked civilians for a reason.
The government must be expecting something in our future.
http://eye-on-washington.blogspot.com
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Posted by: smf1403 on Oct 1, 2009 2:34 PM
Current rating: Not yet rated [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
However, it is worth taking Dennis Kucinich all the way because he will fight unlike John Kerry or Al Gore.
Then people really have a reason to riot in the streets.
It takes money and support of the people to get him elected. He cannot do this alone and the majority of his donations are from the people which is what we want and what he wants.
What are our alternatives really??
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Posted by: wallace530 on Oct 13, 2009 6:34 PM
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Posted by: tony_opmoc on Sep 29, 2009 2:18 AM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
So the Long Range Acoustic Device, Mounted in the turret of an Armored Personnel Carrier, was used against pedestrians, merchants, journalists and residents.
Was the hearing of any of these innocent people including children in their own homes permanently damaged?
Does anyone in "authority" care?
Or is everyone in authority in the US, a ruthless fascist pig who considers the general human population in the same was as animals to be controlled on the way to the slaughter house.
The message is quite clear. Don't you dare protest. Don't you dare challenge our authority. We have got everything we need to control you.
Heil Hitler / /
Tony
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» RE: "but in neither case were any demonstrators present"
Posted by: Erin
» RE: "but in neither case were any demonstrators present"
Posted by: praedor
» CON'T: Here is a copy of the letter I just sent to the chief of Police in Pittsburg...
Posted by: CynicI
» Here is why the letter is going into the trash bin upon receipt.
Posted by: EncinoM
» Again making up facts,
Posted by: EncinoM
» RE: Here is why the letter is going into the trash bin upon receipt.
Posted by: tony_opmoc
» RE: I thought about that last sentence and decided its a statement of fact...
Posted by: tony_opmoc
» RE: I thought about that last sentence and decided its a statement of fact...
Posted by: aussidawg
» That is absolutely not true. Your right if your talking about the NEOCON repubs, but then...
Posted by: CynicI
» RE: That is absolutely not true. Your right if your talking about the NEOCON repubs, but then...
Posted by: EncinoM
» BINGO, absolutely, you hit that nail right on the head first time out.... UNITED WE STAND...
Posted by: CynicI
» RE: "but in neither case were any demonstrators present"
Posted by: Ian MacLeod
Comments are closed-
Posted by: HelperMonkey on Sep 29, 2009 2:37 AM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
So I think we're gonna see more of this non-lethal technology, and frankly it's frightening. It has severe implications for the public's ability to protest at all. Once this stuff starts getting used en-masse, it'll be pulled out right away as soon as people start gathering - just the way tasers seem to be used so easily nowadays. The use of these weapons on citizenry needs to be made unconstitutional, lest we end up in a real Brave New World.
Mark my words, we'll see a day where a privatized militia use this tech on the public in order to break up protests over corporate actions. All the ingredients are there already. Want to protest the latest coca-cola plant which is destroying your community by taking away all your water? Forget it, your ass is getting soma'd or your skin is getting fried, by a blackwater-esqe company your own tax dollars helped pay for.
Then again maybe it's a good thing. Maybe this is what it will take for the american public to actually do something about all the crazy shit going down in your police state right now. If that happens, then my thoughts are with you.
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» RE: life imitating fiction, life imitating life
Posted by: surfreality
» Please, do not call "contract killers (mercenaries)" Militia, since...
Posted by: CynicI
» RE: Please, do not call "contract killers (mercenaries)" Militia, since...
Posted by: EncinoM
» RE: How are you so sure that the "reflecive" mylar will protect you?
Posted by: Changling
» No, but you can microwave them.... heheehee....
Posted by: CynicI
» RE: I have a suggestion!
Posted by: Ian MacLeod
Comments are closed-
Posted by: LeonBNJ on Sep 29, 2009 3:35 AM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Making these devices worse it that innocent people as well as pets can be injured. Who knows what other enviromental affects are to beneficient animals. I hope protesters and innocents sue the hell out of the local government for injury including hearing losses and other injuries to themselves and their pets.
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» RE: Some 'non-leathal' devices are torture devices
Posted by: praedor
» RE: How many sued the SAVAK? GeStaPo? KGB?
Posted by: Changling
Comments are closed-
Posted by: whole2th on Sep 29, 2009 3:40 AM
Current rating: 3 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Would Ghandi and his demonstrating supporters have had their success with the Robocops and arsenal of crowd control techniques from hell (1984, Brave New World) at ready to stop the message?
Mainstream media controls the minds and hearts more subtly--with few alternatives (even AlterNet steers and biases subjects like 9/11 Truth) for public expression of dissent. Street & parks protest is an honored venue of expression in free countries throughout the world.
Goodbye First Amendment if we let this continue. Goodbye Constitution if we wimp out.
READ Cindy Sheehan's letter from Pittsburg WATCH video footage at WorldCantWait.org
SIGN this letter of outrage, to be sent to federal and PA authorities. Deadline 10-1-2009
CONTACT these officials:
Luke Ravenstahl: Mayor of Pittsburgh 412-255-2626
Nathan Harper: Chief of Police, Pittsburgh 412-323-7800
Ed Rendell: Governor of Pennsylvania 717 787-2500
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» I just made the calls, the police were as I expected, lied and laughed at my comments...
Posted by: CynicI
» The 911 "truth" Movement--Because if We Don't Disparage the Victims of 911, Who Will?
Posted by: GuitarBill
» RE: Listen to the man at the megaphone
Posted by: cascadia
Comments are closed-
Posted by: sdz on Sep 29, 2009 3:58 AM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
The general strike epitomizes non-compliance as a kind of tactic. It causes damage by the majority opting to not be where they, as individuals, ought to be.
Naturally, it always helps the many to defeat the few when military personnel refuse to follow barbaric orders!
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» Excellent suggestion and don't forget, resistance can occur on many different levels.
Posted by: CynicI
Comments are closed-
Posted by: Suzon on Sep 29, 2009 4:13 AM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Hope and change. Not unrealistic. Not impossible. But very difficult and frightening. Good for the guy in the blue shirt with the loudspeaker. And for the two girls who were thrown to the ground. And for the people with the courage to film.
Agreed that there may be times when crowd control is necessary, but where are the humane even pleasurable devices? Vanilla foam, anyone? Simple human decency is called for. Hope and change.
Making money is often a legally-sanctioned crime.
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» RE: The ones who have plans for us all
Posted by: Changling
» I can (unfortunately) answer this
Posted by: Dboy
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Posted by: Erin on Sep 29, 2009 5:20 AM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
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» Yes, definitely worried, but NOT AFRAID, RATHER MAD..... anger is the first step in healing...
Posted by: CynicI
» RE: Yes, definitely worried, but NOT AFRAID, RATHER MAD..... anger is the first step in healing...
Posted by: tony_opmoc
» All very good points for how it is now... except for those corporations, which are most of the big..
Posted by: CynicI
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Posted by: americansheep on Sep 29, 2009 5:57 AM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
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Posted by: surfreality on Sep 29, 2009 6:31 AM
Current rating: Not yet rated [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
www.post-gazette.com/pg/09270/1001201-482.stm
So the response to a loud crowd is ear splitting noise?!
Wow.
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Posted by: TFYQA on Sep 29, 2009 6:36 AM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Of the country's 364 railroads, 89 went bankrupt. A total of 18,000 businesses failed in the first two years of the depression. Wages were cut, workers went on strike. Federal troops were used against workers and more than one hundred people were killed.
1874: UNITED STATES. When unemployed workers demonstrate in New York's Tompkins Square Park, mounted police charge into the crowd, beating men, women and children. Hundreds are injured. New York Police Commissioner Abram Duryee, is quoted as saying, "It was the most glorious sight I ever saw."
"A society whose citizens refuse to see and investigate the facts, who refuse to believe that their government and their media will routinely lie to them and fabricate a reality contrary to verifiable facts, is a society that chooses and deserves the Police State Dictatorship it's going to get." - Ian Williams Goddard
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» There is more to this history than you gave here, but it always is the same isn't it?
Posted by: CynicI
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Posted by: praedor on Sep 29, 2009 6:46 AM
Current rating: Not yet rated [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Surplus flak jackets are protection from rubber bullets and beanbags (at least for your torso). Knee pads, elbow pads, arm protectors, shin guards are also available and would offer much protection of those vulnerable areas (both "tactical" style or the type used by motocross and X-treme biking etc). As for the "pain ray"...a fine mesh metal screen (that you can see through) would offer protection. You could even get fancy (though uncomfortable) and patch up a jacket/raincoat and pants with the mesh (make sure to have something to cover your head/face).
Not sure what could be done about some of the goo weapons...possibly not much - avoid taking a full load and when in a situation that sees deployment of that crap, carry a lightweight chem defense suit (available cheap online!) and don it as the goo makes an appearance and avoid taking a full-on direct hit. You can then peel out of the suit...or carry a large rain poncho and dump it when nailed. You keep your "running" and movement clothing mostly clean with a disposable, protective, cheap outer protective shell.
Ear plugs PLUS sound protective ear muffs are enough to protect your hearing from 170db range jet engine noise (ex-military: been there) - it will also go a long way to squelching the effects of the various noise weapons.
One CANNOT allow the authoritarian goons have the final say nor last sadistic laugh. Be prepared to protest and disrupt REGARDLESS of their anti-democratic, anti-liberty, anti-freedom fascist toys.
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» RE: There are countermeasures to most
Posted by: wireup
» RE: There are countermeasures to most
Posted by: praedor
» RE: There are countermeasures to most
Posted by: aussidawg
» We've got a bad moon rising
Posted by: Dixie Dawg
» Here is something useful to read about body armor.....
Posted by: CynicI
Comments are closed-
Posted by: Gravitas on Sep 29, 2009 7:04 AM
Current rating: 1 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
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» RE: Secret Testing Then open testing Dark Mirror universe
Posted by: Changling
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Posted by: QQOblivion on Sep 29, 2009 7:22 AM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Now, THAT IS torture!
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» HAHAHAAHAA, now that is creative, see what I mean???
Posted by: CynicI
Comments are closed-
Posted by: plantland on Sep 29, 2009 7:26 AM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
The Constitutional Convention was held in Philadelphia, Pennsylvania.
Where was Pennsylvania's Democratic governor, Ed Rendell in this? Did countenancing Philadelphia's Mayor Wilson Goode's aerial drop of C4 and Tovex, military explosives, on residents during a stand-off in the 80's pave the way for him to allow these inhumane random tactics?
Shame on PA for allowing it. Shame on Penn State.
I hope the author is able to contact the visiting participants to let them know about the tecnologies used so that they can at least lodge protests after the fact.
There neeeds to be more coverage of this story, and attention paid to federal funding of
torture to withhold dissent.
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Posted by: ismac76 on Sep 29, 2009 7:43 AM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
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» RE: part of the value of these weapons is PSY OPPS
Posted by: sdz
» True, we have spent adnaseum assessing the problem, lets start brainstorming....
Posted by: CynicI
» RE: Now how to stop them before they stop us
Posted by: Changling
» The conventions taught us that they are no longer an option...
Posted by: CynicI
» RE: The ones allied against us planned long and hard
Posted by: Changling
Comments are closed-
Posted by: smf1403 on Sep 29, 2009 9:04 AM
Current rating: 4 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
YES, WE NEED TO PROTEST, WE NEED TO SPEAK OUT.
THAT SAID, OBAMA HAS NOT LET US DOWN.
WE HAVE LET OURSELVES DOWN.
WE VOTED FOR THIS ELITIST, HARVARD, RHETORIC-SPEWING, LYING THROUGH HIS TEETH, MONSTER.
FOLLOW THE MONEY NEXT TIME 2012.
BOTTOM LINE IS THE PRESIDENT HAS THE POWER.
LET'S GIVE THE POWER TO THE RIGHT PERSON WHO WILL STOP THIS INSANITY.
VOTE FOR DENNIS KUCINICH NEXT TIME.
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» True, but we have an obstacle course to go through way before then....
Posted by: CynicI
» RE: OBAMA WILL NOT STOP THIS TORTURE
Posted by: Dboy
» OK, I see your point
Posted by: smf1403
» Ok I see your point
Posted by: smf1403
Comments are closed-
Posted by: sanitysojourner on Sep 29, 2009 9:14 AM
Current rating: Not yet rated [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Many people are allergic, some fatally so, to opiates and the anti-depressants.
For those with any kind of inner-ear syndrome, the loud horn tactic could really make them drop in the streets. It would me.
To call these tactics "non-lethal" is, bottom line, a lie. How diverse has their "medical testing" been? Included a typical downtown street, say, in Manhattan?
Please, let's not buy the "non-lethal" language. Some did with "enhanced interrogation." These "non-lethal" tactics are far from that in large typical crowd, replete with children, elderly, ill. And also think "long-term effects." And when it comes to insurance, think 1) what would be covered if treatment is required and 2) what would be a "pre-existing condition?"
And would you take your child to a "peaceful protest" if these were around? Trust me, they wouldn't be around to sock it to the "birthers," "deathers" and those others who somehow managed to steal an existing word for a sexual act and turn it into a legitimate phrase that 1) I won't use but 2) the media happily prints/says everywhere.
Non-lethal? Prove it. With data. As in real data and medical studies. And take this list to your doctor and ask if any of these are good for you if you happen to be caught in these chemicals running out for a quick sandwich during your lunch break.
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Posted by: Brb007 on Sep 29, 2009 9:20 AM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
What our state and many other states do not advertise, is that our resources are depleted, non-existant or in Iraq and we have nothing of our own for the Guard to use, if we truly had a legitimate state emergency. My Brother, before his retirement, was in charge of one of our largest armories here in PA. He faught for over a year about the fudged numbers and lies that were being sent up about readiness, to the Commander in Chief and when our unit was deployed to Iraq for a second time, we had to borrow troops and equipment from 3 other states to have enough men and resources to send one full unit.
Why then, I would have to ask, do we waste these expensive resources, in an overkill display of force to terrorize a college campus, where the many videos available clearly show no violence? The riot squads trapped college kids into stair wells and blocks from both ends, leaving them unable to remove themselves to safety, then commanded them to disperse, all while shooting them with rubber bullets, pepper spray and tear gas. Videos clearly demonstrated several students injured and bleeding. One elderly woman, who was simply walking on a sidewalk, was bitten in the arse by a police dog, bloodied and injured, completely unprovoked!
I used to chuckle when I would read articles about the upcoming police state that America was on her way to becoming. I no longer find them humorous or an exaggeration. If this can happen in PA, it can and will happen anywhere. Our tax dollars are being used to confine us to "our place" as working slaves to support the will of the corporate fascism that has become the USSA. No more expectation of privacy, safety in your own home, freedom of movement and speech and no more peaceful demonstrating. We have few freedoms left in this country. How did we sit back and permit this to happen? How did we not see what they were doing with the Patriot Act and in the name of security for our homeland? It seems to me, the only thing they are protecting, is themselves and their corporate controllers, rendering us entrapped pawns only here to finance their will and domination!
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» RE: Some Important, Albeit Frightening Data Missing
Posted by: Dboy
Comments are closed-
Posted by: Paul_C on Sep 29, 2009 10:39 AM
Current rating: Not yet rated [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
The wealth gap is exploding at an exponential rate. That means that even if we educate ourselves or our children and try to make something of our hard work and intelligence it will simply be stolen from us by teams of lawyers from the big corporations, or simply outright stolen. Meanwhile:
Corporations will continue to drive down the standard of living by ever-increasing "worker productivity" efforts, which is a euphemism for more work for less pay.
Our militaristic security state is being turned against us and that will continue to regress as things get worse. Virtually all research dollars now are funneled through DARPA to target military technological advances that are being used to stabilize our corporate state. Meanwhile:
Our military budget is exploding into the stratosphere. Basically all federal dollars not being spent on Medicare/Medicaid/Social Security are being sucked dry by the military industrial complex. So they will grow in power and seek new "threats" to neutralize - that would be us.
Our Congress and President are so corrupted by corporate power that we are not even a part of the process anymore.
We have to slowly, but methodically extract ourselves from this corrupt capitalistic system of exploitation and violence. We have to substitute dogged resistance to everything the system stands for. We have to dedicate ourselves to becoming that "goo" that they are using on us!
We have to stop having children that we can neither afford nor can we give them a decent life.
Personally, I am turning away from the militarized, possessive University corporate scheme toward the open Freeware Community. This will give me the exposure and credibility I need to advance my career without being "owned" by crooks or greedy corporations. It will benefit everyone and ultimately I will be able to support myself by helping others.
Meanwhile I do what I can, writing Letters to the Editor (everyone contributing on this site should be doing this, it is very important) and participating here on Alternet.
Maybe Alternet could do a story on the Freeware Community model?
peace,
Paul
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» Starve them of that which gives them their power.
Posted by: rafaeltoral
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Posted by: debmcd on Sep 29, 2009 10:58 AM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
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Posted by: tazdelaney on Sep 29, 2009 11:33 AM
Current rating: 1 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
certain old synthesizers can be preset to infrasonic and ultrasonic levels. in fact, in the early 1970s, there was a CIA plan for assassinations, such as castro, via siply amplifying a preset roland SH-1250, i think it was. french sound-weapon studies as far back as the 1950s were disintegrating tanks...
tasers can be purchased by citizens, too. multiple-tentacle tasers, too.
then there's HERF. i first read of a herf gun in the early 90s. it was said that a fellow with a home-made herf gun put together from items to be had at a large hardware store had successfully fried the hard disk drives of an office just by walking through it. as this page and any google of the topic shows, these have a range of uses (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Directed-energy_weapon)
defenses? well, gasmasks in the event of chemtrailing. sheesh. run for the hills.
with governmental insolvency, food riots and martial law looming, it is imperative for citizenry to consider and act accordingly for their own protection. the rightwing is and has long since been doing so and they are another element for us to be concerned about. it is easy to imagine attacks on gay communities, blacks, hispanics, artist's ghettos and simple takeovers of regions in which we live.
that indian-killer george washington rightly said, "a democratic society cannot long exist in the presence of a standing army." and that was 220 years of standing army ago...
looking on the bright side, an honorable death is generally hard to come by. that might not be a problem in this future scenario.
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Posted by: logansafi on Sep 29, 2009 11:33 AM
Current rating: Not yet rated [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
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Posted by: chetdude on Sep 29, 2009 11:49 AM
Current rating: 3 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
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» RE: Work with them you will be "okay" otherwise...
Posted by: Changling
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Posted by: tazdelaney on Sep 29, 2009 11:53 AM
Current rating: 2 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
as the government sees fit to wage war on the citizenry to protect the world-devouring oligarchs of such as WTO/IF/WorldBank/G20 (not to say that it hasn't been waging war on the citizenry since andrew jackson was president and ever since...), the proper, constitutionally correct, citizen response is to attack back in spades.
the current picture is increasingly dire. i won't do teh whole story here, but on 7/11/06, i was kidnapped, beaten, injected with god knows what multiple times and dropped at a hospital. the last thing i saw before being knocked unconscious from behind was a black van with flashing lights. 13 hours later i came to. suffice it to say that my health hasn't been the same since. they could more easily have killed me, being pros. no, just a message.
at first my wife and i thought this was due to some people we were suing over a stolen, very valuable business, an endless lawsuit now that they're enriched. but last year i learned that a fellow who'd supervised our early 2006 work on antiwar and war-crimes websites and related antiwar activities had been identically picked up when leaving the massive antiwar protest at the UN during the same period when i was attacked.
we learned through a friend of ours that NYPD is rife with moonlighting cops and shortly thereafter, a report came out about there being hundreds of aryan nation thugs and the like on the NYPD. some of these pros would do attacks for kicks, not even needing to be paid.
the terrible truth is that there are literally millions of these folks out there and the government is its core. time is running short til the food riots start in a nation bankrupted by warmongers and corporatists.
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» Try posting facts next time
Posted by: EncinoM
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Posted by: DaBear on Sep 29, 2009 3:00 PM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Expect only more of this as the owning-class step up their war on the rest of us.
Yay, Pittsburg, land of the fuckhead Western Pennsylvanian neocon horde. I'm so glad I got outta the fucked up feudalist state.
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Posted by: mmckinl on Sep 29, 2009 5:41 PM
Current rating: 4 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Are people with legitimate grievances more or less likely to use their right of free speech to express their opinions when threat of violence and pain are likely?
These weapons are an abridgment of our First Amendment Rights ... Furthermore the meting out of collective punishment is a War Crime.
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» RE: These Weapons effect Everyone not just demonstrators ...
Posted by: Changling
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Posted by: eyeonit on Sep 30, 2009 8:24 PM
Current rating: 1 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Marshall Law is being practiced for a reason. The National Guard was deployed and attacked civilians for a reason.
The government must be expecting something in our future.
http://eye-on-washington.blogspot.com
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Posted by: smf1403 on Oct 1, 2009 2:34 PM
Current rating: Not yet rated [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
However, it is worth taking Dennis Kucinich all the way because he will fight unlike John Kerry or Al Gore.
Then people really have a reason to riot in the streets.
It takes money and support of the people to get him elected. He cannot do this alone and the majority of his donations are from the people which is what we want and what he wants.
What are our alternatives really??
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Posted by: wallace530 on Oct 13, 2009 6:34 PM
Current rating: Not yet rated [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
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