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AlterNet / By Joshua Holland
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H1N1 Just Isn't That Scary: Why There's No Reason to Go Overboard with Swine Flu Hysteria

Just a few years ago, we wouldn't have known there was a "swine flu."
September 25, 2009  |  
 
 
 
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With the media pumping out story after fevered story of a unique and "deadly" new strain of influenza sweeping the globe -- tossing words like "pandemic" around with little in the way of context -- you'd have to be a Vulcan not to experience just a touch of panic. But is this flu really so scary?

Any virus that's new to the human population poses a potential danger. But perhaps the most striking aspect of the swine flu quasi-panic is, if it had emerged just a few short years ago, we would have gone about our lives without any sense that anything unusual was even under way.

After all, millions of people around the world get the flu each year, and tens of thousands die as a result -- most of them very old or very young or people whose immune systems are already compromised.

The vast majority of people who catch a case of flu feel like crap for a few days or a week, and then they recover.  So far, the swine flu is no different -- it's not particularly virulent, nor is it deadlier than the strains commonly referred to as "seasonal flu" (although Mexican authorities initially thought it was for reasons that are not entirely clear).

Viruses mutate, intermingle with other strains and adapt, and the H1N1 flu is a new one -- a "zoonotic" virus that has leaped from pigs to humans. So it’s always possible that the swine flu could become a genuinely dangerous phenomenon.

But so far there’s no evidence to indicate that that’s a likely scenario. In fact, researchers at the University of Maryland conducted a study that concluded the swine flu is less likely to recombine with other strains; the Los Angeles Times reported that the results should ease "fears that the pandemic H1N1 influenza virus will … mutate into a more lethal form."

And if the swine flu -- H1N1 -- had hit just 10 short years ago, we would not have gone about our lives as if nothing was amiss. It's only due to stepped up efforts to screen for viruses after the SARS and "avian flu" scares, and our relatively new ability to quickly (and inexpensively) determine a virus’s genome, that we know something other than the so-called "seasonal flu" exists at all. 

None of this has prevented the media from engaging in a full-blown Y2K-style panic. Every time a new case of flu is identified as being caused by the H1N1 strain, every time an unfortunate person dies of it, every time a public health official releases a new statistic about its spread or a school is shut down, a media feeding frenzy has followed.

It's true that the H1N1 strain has displayed a few unusual characteristics. There have been fewer lethal cases among infants and more among non-elderly adults than one would expect based on our experience with other strains of influenza. But looking at its impact on the population as a whole, the H1N1 virus has in no way proved to be more dangerous than the seasonal flu. 

Rarely is the actual threat posed by swine flu put into any statistical context.

So consider this: According to the European Center for Disease Control, there have been 4,092 confirmed deaths from swine flu around the world through Sept. 1. ("Confirmed" deaths is a dubious figure, but I’ll use it for the sake of argument.)

If the same rate were to hold out for the rest of the year, that number would grow to 6,138 for 2009. That would mean you'd have approximately four times the chance of getting killed by a lightning strike (in an average year), and would be 200 times more likely to die in a car crash than to succumb to the swine flu. (Actually, this underestimates the likelihood of dying in a car crash, because anyone can catch a virus but not everyone gets around in a motor vehicle.)


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Joshua Holland is an editor and senior writer at AlterNet.
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Cui Bono?
[Report this comment]
Posted by: Revolutionary (Direct) Democracy on Sep 25, 2009 12:43 AM   
Current rating: 3    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
The connection between Donald Rumsfeld and the makers of Tamiflu is well established. Who is cashing in on the current climate of deliberately induced public hysteria?


FREE AMERICA

REVOLUTIONARY (DIRECT) DEMOCRACY

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» Are you serious... Posted by: EncinoM
» It's not the virus that is of concern? Posted by: photon's feather

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It could be so much worse...
[Report this comment]
Posted by: HeroesAll on Sep 25, 2009 1:31 AM   
Current rating: 3    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
...it could be ebola. There's a situation to chill the blood: a highly contagious extremely nasty disease that would see hospital walls caked in blood (quite literally).

Swine flu, OTOH, seems to be a flu that's about as contagious as other flus, with a mortality rate like other flus. It is, in short, pretty much like other flus. Kudos to the medical fraternity for preparing for the worst, but there are oh so many other things to worry about.

And yes, malaria. Of course, the media don't care about that because it mainly kills poor brown and black people in furr'n countries.

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» Wrong on DDT Posted by: brunowe
» %^) Posted by: GuitarBill

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Swine Flop
[Report this comment]
Posted by: DavidMac on Sep 25, 2009 1:31 AM   
Current rating: 3    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Yet another "crisis" going to waste . . . "We must pass the health-care bill NOW before we all die from the swine flu pandemic!!" (or not).

Chicken Little Syndrome is alive and well in the Obama administration, even if the Swine Flu "Pandemic" isn't.

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1957 and before
[Report this comment]
Posted by: Blacktiger1 on Sep 25, 2009 1:32 AM   
Current rating: 3    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Those people born before 1957 are supposed to be immune naturally. Those in the senior bracket who had regular flu shots last year may be vulnerable to H1N1, Canadian Gov. is not pressing for inoculations at present, on a wait and see road.

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» You're an idiot, MaxLexJen Posted by: GuitarBill

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Soccer mommies in peril
[Report this comment]
Posted by: teel on Sep 25, 2009 1:47 AM   
Current rating: 2    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Nobody gives a crap about aids, ebola, hanta, malaria or plague because those things happen to dirty poor brown people. Not to Mrs Apple on Happy Clam Avenue.

But now there's a DISEASE. It could happen to ME. It could happen to my over-protected, over-fed KIDS.

SOMEBODY DO SOMETHING!!

Aaaaaand of course media and goverments are all to happy to join in the panic.

The people at risk are people with other medical issues, infants and the elderly. What else is new?

Stay fearful people, it's bound to help.

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» RE: Soccer mommies in peril Posted by: richholland
» ROTHFLMAO........... Posted by: CynicI

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thank you
[Report this comment]
Posted by: jrgjniew on Sep 25, 2009 2:25 AM   
Current rating: 3    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
WOW, A very factual article that reaches a proper conclusion! No animal rights, mixingbowl hog confinement, antibiotic stews, etc. remarks that would be expected on Alternet articles(and have been printed, cussed and discussed). Thank you!!!

The only part missing, is how the hysteria is contributing to the devastation of the pork production industry. It has a very steep demand curve, thus the slightest downturn in demand causes a hugely disproportionate drop in price. It is devasting hog farmers incomes and lives. Several billion dollars in losses have been accumulated since April, at a time when we were supposed to finally reach profitability after two years of losses that were created primarilly due to high feed costs. It is at least refreshing to find a truthful, accurate article in Alternet, that is not "trashing" our industry. Please, go buy some delicious pork products today, and enjoy them this weekend!!!!!

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» RE: thank you Posted by: noir

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Swine Flu is a Media Analogy Representing The Real Story of The Virus of Insane Corruption...
[Report this comment]
Posted by: tony_opmoc on Sep 25, 2009 2:42 AM   
Current rating: 3    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
That is infecting all aspects of World Society due to its Top Down Dictatorship Power Style.

The real effects of Swine Flu are mass impoverishment of all but a tiny elite of Pigs who are laughing at us.

Even the completely forgettable leader of the UK "Liberal" Party describes this process as "Progressive Austerity"

He might have well as said its time to bend over and take your flu jab up the arse.

Things are not good, and all we can hope for is that the men in white coats developing the next strain make a "slight" mistake, and instead of decimating the general population instead take out all the pigs - the pigs being the subject of books by Andrew Lobaczewski "Political Ponerology" and Martha Stout "The Sociopath Next Door"

link

Extract

"Imagine - if you can - not having a conscience, none at all, no feelings of guilt or remorse no matter what you do, no limiting sense of concern for the well-being of strangers, friends, or even family members. Imagine no struggles with shame, not a single one in your whole life, no matter what kind of selfish, lazy, harmful, or immoral action you had taken.

And pretend that the concept of responsibility is unknown to you, except as a burden others seem to accept without question, like gullible fools.

Now add to this strange fantasy the ability to conceal from other people that your psychological makeup is radically different from theirs. Since everyone simply assumes that conscience is universal among human beings, hiding the fact that you are conscience-free is nearly effortless.

You are not held back from any of your desires by guilt or shame, and you are never confronted by others for your cold-bloodedness. The ice water in your veins is so bizarre, so completely outside of their personal experience, that they seldom even guess at your condition.

In other words, you are completely free of internal restraints, and your unhampered liberty to do just as you please, with no pangs of conscience, is conveniently invisible to the world.

You can do anything at all, and still your strange advantage over the majority of people, who are kept in line by their consciences will most likely remain undiscovered.

How will you live your life?"

This describe the people in control of us. They are evil psychopaths and we need to find a cure for them.

Tony

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All done and dusted......
[Report this comment]
Posted by: Captainmagic on Sep 25, 2009 3:00 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Apparently Australia is poised to inoculate it's entire population shortly and all those who should want a shot can go get it free. Trials on their vaccine there have been so positive that its all over red rover for h1n1 forever.....

Meanwhile dastardly deals are taking place to launch the next money grab.....

Captain OUT

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» I SURE HOPE YOU RETURN! Posted by: photon's feather

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Negligent Misallocation of Resources
[Report this comment]
Posted by: drricklippin on Sep 25, 2009 3:19 AM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
IMAGINE...JUST IMAGINE... that all the money and resources we have squandered on H1N1 flu issue over years (about to fizzle) were spent on establishing basic health centers in poor minority communities.

Dr. Rick Lippin
Southampton,Pa

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Don't forget the 9/11 Truthers
[Report this comment]
Posted by: Perry Logan on Sep 25, 2009 3:26 AM   
Current rating: 3    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
We can't talk about swine flu without mentioning the 9/11 Truth Movement, many of whose members are in the forefront of trying to scare everyone to death about the flu.

In case you've missed it, many Truther types say the flu is "obviously artificial," created by our evil secret masters to destroy the world.

This is when they're not saying the vaccines were created by our evil secret masters to destroy the world. Depends on which Truther you're talking to.

Truthers always say any contagion is a government plot to kill everybody. Many of them said the bird flu was part of a CFR plot to kill your mother and would devastate the world.

Fortunately, Truther predictions never come true. ;)

In my view, the 9/11 Truthers are relatively harmless (despite the fact they are making false accusations of mass murder, which can't be good for your karma), but when they start scaring people about vaccines they are adversely hurting the public health.

I live in Austin, TX, which has more than its share of Truthers and Patriots and the like. Conspiracy theorist extraordinaire Alex JOnes hails from Austin.

Alex thinks vaccines are part of a secret government plot to kill us all. But then, Alex thinks just about everything under the sun is part of a secret government plot to kill us all.

As you might expect, all this anti-flu talk has its usual effect of raising the infectious disease rate in Austin, as Truthers send their unvaccinated children to spread gerns to the rest of the population.

Go, Truthers!

Three excellent 9/11 Truth Movement debunking pages:
http://www.911myths.com/
http://www.debunking911.com/
http://wtc7lies.googlepages.com/home

And a lovely video:
Sad About the Young

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» 9/11 Truthers Posted by: progressivetype
» The twin towers imploded perfectly Posted by: jonodavidson
» Idiotic comment Posted by: leafsong1
» RE: Don't forget the 9/11 Truthers Posted by: Rhondamarie
» My God, Posted by: EncinoM
» No doubt about it Posted by: GuitarBill
» Who's the troll, "prophit(0)"? Posted by: GuitarBill

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Typical knee jerk reaction
[Report this comment]
Posted by: the man with a dog on Sep 25, 2009 3:27 AM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
After scaremongering by certain parties drug companies have badgered governments to produce drugs to combat the much hyped "pandemic"

Here in the UK they have promises from our government to purchase multi millions of their "new found vacine" at a cost of £6 ($9.7)per shot.Incidentally they accept the fact that it costs £1($1.6) to produce the vaccine. Which is a nice little earner for the drug company.

Incidentally these drugs have not had any length of time to be tested so its a matter of crossing your fingers before being injected

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» RE: Typical knee jerk reaction Posted by: richholland
» RE: Typical knee jerk reaction Posted by: the man with a dog

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h1n1 is different
[Report this comment]
Posted by: robchapman on Sep 25, 2009 4:21 AM   
Current rating: 3    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
This article, replete with statistics telling the reader how innocuous H1N1 is is misleading.

H1N1 is highly contagious, and seems particularly virulent among a populations segment that spend their days crammed together like sardines: school children and college students.

After incubating in the bodies of children, the full blown infection then strikes their care-givers, parents and teachers and knocks them down, too.

While H1N1 may be a low liklihood of death, dealing with a sick child is an emotionally draining experience. Catching the kid's illness and being miserably sick is no bed of roses either.

It is vitally important that the vaccine be developed that the susceptible populations be vaccinated and that human suffering be reduced.

If the lefty types reading and writing in alternet are so full of vitriol that all they can see is conspiracy, they have reduced themselves to mirror images of the right-wing haters spouting their exotica and absurb venom.

Robert Chapman
Lansing, NY

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» Every flu is different Posted by: leafsong1

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RISK PERCEPTION-NEW IDEAS
[Report this comment]
Posted by: drricklippin on Sep 25, 2009 4:22 AM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
I teach this topic of risk perception at the University level- The "father" of this field is Prof Paul Slovic from the University of Oregon. Prof Bart Laws of Tufts is my dear e-friend/colleague who taught me how to blog in 2005-forever grateful!

Here are some new ideas I put forth on Risk Perception

Premise- Before puberty early neuro-psychiatric influence set human limits on our risk perception capacities resulting in a relatively fixed lifelong “risk perception style”.

These influences include:

-Parental views on risk
-Early childhood religious trainings and teachings
-Early educational influences
-Early media influences
-Early peer influences (local culture)
-Socio-Economic Status (SES)
nutrition
environmental toxins
access to quality healthcare
others
-Exposure to early childhood events including major illnesses, injuries and natural or manmade catastrophes

These influences have a profound impact on:

-LOCUS OF CONTROL
-WORLDVIEW(S) OF DISEASE CAUSATION
-RELGIOSITY
-NEURO-PERCEPTUAL SKILLS

I might add an additional much more sinister (hopefully rare) one which is the purposeful spread of misinformation to achieve political ends.

Dr. Rick Lippin
Southampton,Pa

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Recombinant Virus - Not Business As Usual
[Report this comment]
Posted by: paxus on Sep 25, 2009 4:46 AM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
This is apparently not business as usual and according to some experts here and in Europe appears lab created, possibly spread by accident at best.

It combines 1918 flu, avian bird flu and swine flu---and a second wave is supposed to mysteriously mutate into nasty virulence

FYI, See here

and and here

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Thanks, Josh
[Report this comment]
Posted by: ETSpoon on Sep 25, 2009 5:54 AM   
Current rating: 4    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Thanks for a piece on the swine flu that doesn't have panic written all over it.

Too bad your article won't get broader coverage. The M$M should pick this article up but won't.

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Periodic media alarms are simply to sell vaccines
[Report this comment]
Posted by: leafsong1 on Sep 25, 2009 6:06 AM   
Current rating: 4    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
This happens every few years now. SARS and the avian flu were totally overblown as well. It is humiliating to witness the cowardly way that modern Americans deal with these minor hazards. Home of the brave my ass.

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Damn right ! You da man Josh !
[Report this comment]
Posted by: maxpayne on Sep 25, 2009 6:54 AM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
But here's something else to consider. It's time to SHUT DOWN BIG PHARMA and I'm proud not to buy any of their shit. I'll stick to natural herbs and stay flu proof as always. That alone shall give Big Pharma the middle finger.

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Not bad? Bad enough if you have to take the trip!
[Report this comment]
Posted by: BillGresho on Sep 25, 2009 7:08 AM   
Current rating: 3    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
It seems that the thrust of this posting is that if it doesn't kill you, it AIN'T bad. To quote: "tens of thousands die as a result -- most of them very old or very young or people whose immune systems are already compromised.

The vast majority of people who catch a case of flu feel like crap for a few days or a week, and then they recover."

So just don't be old or young or have compromised immune systems. At 67 with a compromised immune systems, I'm there. Thanks buster.

Perhaps the writer should go through the experience. What an attitude! Too bad for those whose immune systems are compromised.

Just check out the two Huffington Post postings by two physicians who went through the experience: "I went to Afghanistan and all I got was H1N1". Huffington Post Posting by Dr. Sanjay Gupta (of CNN fame).

"Love in the Time of Swine Flu: A Story in Three Acts". Huffington Post Posting by Dr. Larry Brilliant.

It is not a pretty picture and definitely could be trouble for those with poor health. I just experienced a bacterial infection (endocarditis) with similar symptoms though a different driving force. Spent a week at Brigham Women's in Boston. It could have been fatal. I don't wish the experience on anyone (even the writer, though on second thought it just might change his attitude).

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» It's the flu. Get over it. Posted by: leafsong1
» RE: It's the flu. Get over it. Posted by: BillGresho
» yikes.. you're scaring me.. Posted by: CRaPWHiSPeReR
» LOL do I detect a note of sarcasm? Posted by: CRaPWHiSPeReR

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Jaws vs Chicken Little
[Report this comment]
Posted by: Dr Dan on Sep 25, 2009 7:09 AM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Uncertainty is a bear. What will happen with H1N1? We don't know. There's the rub. I'm a research psychologist and work in public health. When I teach or talk about H1N1 I cast the psychology of it as Jaws vs Chicken Little. Recall in Jaws the town of Amity Island didn't want to panic the tourists because it would cut into revenue. That's one end of the spectrum. On the other end, Chicken Little panics and makes a mess of things. So what do we do? We prepare, we plan. We suggest appropriate activities like hand washing and if someone is sick, that they stay home. And we prepare, the advantage of which is that if we're prepared for a serious H1N1 outbreak, we'll also be prepared for other disasters, health-related, natural events, whatever. As an insider, I don’t see anyone panicking or sending out panicky nonsense (I don’t work in the media, won’t talk for them). We’re involved in due diligence for the welfare of our society, the world.

This article errs on the side of certainty, in this author’s case certainty that H1N1 is no big deal. He decries those who err on the other side of certainty. Here’s the deal, is what we’re seeing a repeat of 1968 or 1918? The truthful answer is that we don’t know. But due diligence suggests we need to accept that a repeat of 1918 could happen, and we should be prepared. Let’s say that it does repeat (or is even worse) and we followed the advice to do nothing or very little. On the backend of that scenario, the public, probably Mr Holland included, would be bashing us for having called it wrong and not done enough.

And the difference between seasonal flu and this H1N1 is in fact significant. What we know as seasonal flu has held the pattern of evolving in fairly restricted limits, in fairly predictable patterns. It seems to hold in a fairly stable range of virulence. This H1N1 is “novel” which means that it is unstable and we don’t really have any way of predicting how it will evolve (I’m not a microbiologist, this is what I understand of the issues). So, H1N1 could burn itself out, or it could just as easily ratchet up and become virulent. Right now H1N1 has pretty much followed the 1918 pattern. A small “bump” in illness occurs in the spring of the year, then goes pretty dormant over the summer. In 1918 it came back with a vengeance, both in terms of the number of cases and its virulence in the late fall. Will it happen that way this time? We don’t know. But we all of us had better be prepared, not panicked, not freaked out, just prepared. The people I know are doing just that. And the people I work with are doing their best to assure that my communities will be protected if 1918 repeats. It is exactly what we should be doing as public servants.

By the way, I agree that we need more funding and more efforts in other health domains like HIV. But that’s an attack that needs to be leveled at the sources of our funding, what we are allowed to do at the local levels. The people in my County who work in HIV prevention, for example, are among the hardest working and most dedicated people I know. They do a lot with the pittance that we’re given to spend on this scourge.

Daniel Jordan, PhD

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Making $$$ and keeping control
[Report this comment]
Posted by: raginghormones on Sep 25, 2009 7:29 AM   
Current rating: 3    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
There are two very simple reasons, actually, for the flu hysteria:

Making money

and

Control

The first is important if you are a businessman. The second is important if you are a politician.

For the businessman: money opportunities in drugs and shots and potions.

For the politician: opportunities in further diverting the masses from the REAL problems and another excuse to implement security and restrictive laws.

Swine flu---it's the best of both worlds for these guys.

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It's all about selling vaccines
[Report this comment]
Posted by: Ruby on Sep 25, 2009 8:16 AM   
Current rating: 3    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
The public has been primed to accept that some kind of flu, or other disease, will eventually swoop down upon the globe and decimate us all.

There was SARS, West Nile virus, the bird flu scare (not sure if I got these in the right order) and now the swine flu--and interesting and completely unnatural mix of human, swine and avian flu. Are we really supposed to believe no one is behind this for the money? Come on.

Even back in 2002, the Homeland Security Act put in last minute (literally) provisions to protect pharmaceutical companies from liability regarding vaccines, although they already are pretty well protected. This was designed to be retroactive specifically to protect companies who were being sued for vaccine damage due to mercury.

The swine flu vaccine is an experimental vaccine--actually more than one kind, some with mercury/and or squalene and a mist version. Google squalene to find out just why we should not allow this into our babies and pregnant women. It will not be sufficiently tested, short or long term, before being given to trusting people. Despite this, it was decided two doses would be necessary. Oops, now it's only one. They can't make up their minds.

Think about it: our government ordered 190 million doses of it before it was even made, let alone "tested." They do not intend for it to sit on the shelves.

In NY, hospital staff, including doctors, have been ordered by the health commissioner to get flu shots or be terminated. Forced swine flu vaccines will likely be next. Mass vaccination clinics are being planned for schools as we speak. States are enacting laws for forced vaccination for all residents, some without exemptions or quarantine provisions for families, and most will fine you if you use an exemption.

Our rights to choose medical treatments and our rights to informed consent are about to be taken from us. If you value them, I suggest you contact your legislators and let them know.

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How Did H1N1 Reverse Engineer Itself?
[Report this comment]
Posted by: Ross Wolf on Sep 25, 2009 9:57 AM   
Current rating: 2    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
It is interesting how the “new Swine Flu” is so genetically different from the H1N1 “seasonal influenza virus”, that still circulates after two years. Interesting, because the new flu appears to have “reverse engineered itself” to infect humans after incorporating DNA found in avian, swine and human viruses, including elements found in European and Asian swine viruses. It is a mystery how the DNA from the aforementioned viruses managed to combine their proteins with H1N1 flu viruses that emanated from the 1918 Spanish flu, then mix with swine flu genes from pigs, making it possible to infect humans.

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Say no to FOR PROFIT drug companies
[Report this comment]
Posted by: lawkoza on Sep 25, 2009 9:57 AM   
Current rating: 3    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
They only care about their bottom line. this includes making it impossible to sue them. Now, under the corporatist Supreme Court, they are going to be declared "persons" with all the rights, but no responsibilities of humans. They are always behind on the latest viral mutation, so what's the point in getting a shot if you've had flu many times in your life. I did agree to a pneumonia vaccine, since that is why most older people die from the flu. Only people with children should worry because children cook up such horrible colds and flu with their weak immune systems.

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Quick get a flu shot now!
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Posted by: DaBear on Sep 25, 2009 10:02 AM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Even though the flu shot you'll get doesn't prevent H1N1 and more than half the rest of the flu viruses out there.

Recently some dipshit in our public school morass tried to convince me to get the flu shot (something I've successfully avoided for the past few years) and make my kids get it. "Flu season is here!"

Um no, in socal that'd be January, honey, we're not in upstate NY. Has the Target/Walmart phenomenon infected everyone's ability to recognize the local climate patterns? Jeebus in socal these days you can't get a beach umbrella after June because it's a "seasonal item" so everyone things the beach is only accessible from June to August.... I know don't complain less morons to wade through to go surfing in October. Count my blessings.

No to mention the strains of flu my family typically gets are NOT covered by the typical flu shot. It has never ceased to amaze me that despite all the flu shots, the flu is the most common malady around these parts. WTF is up with that?! Quick! Pee on my leg and tell me it's raining! Please!

This is the result of standards based education (instead of concepts based, where you actually learn how to build knowledge naturally by thinking more effectively, how horrible!)... you get a bunch of numbnutters squawking on about getting medications for stuff that med won't deal with... quick! take Tylenol, you're bleeding out!

And they still insist it's the "best prevention".... jeebus we're a nation of the brain dead led by the village idiots with all the money.

Swine flu, swine flu, swine flu! Hope change hope change hope CHANGE!

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Home of the Brave (ROFLOL)
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Posted by: ShrubtheWarcriminal on Sep 25, 2009 10:20 AM   
Current rating: 4    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
If we go back to the beginning we shall find that ignorance and fear created the gods; that weakness worships them; that credulity preserves them, and that custom, respect and tyranny support them in order to make the blindness of men serve its own interests. Hence the essence of religion that keeps the members in the fold.

This is no different for politicians…keep them ignorant and afraid and you can control them. And this country has some of the most ignorant people around.

As for the printed media, they are panic peddlers. Create an overload of “journalists” from the universities and they will have to compete for “stories” to justify their existence.

Journalists today are just tools for the owners (like Rupert Murdock) to make a profit. There is very little actual searching for the truth today.

Land of the free and home of the BRAVE…my ass!

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Die off
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Posted by: vertical on Sep 25, 2009 10:38 AM   
Current rating: 3    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
This on the surface sounds terrible, but a day does not go by that I do not pray for a plague to wipe out a couple billion humans.

With the impact of overpopulation on the Earth there are only four possible outcomes. The first, resources are running out and then there is a nuclear war over those resources that wipes out most of life on the planet. The second, we avoid a nuclear war but there is a famine were billions starve to death, and you know humans in their bid for survival will kill every living thing on the planet. The third is the plague I am praying for, and if that happens millions of other species will be saved from extinction, plus future generations will have a chance at a good life. Remember this, there would have never been a Rennisance without a Black Plague. Wishing for plague is just the lesser of three evils.

I said four alternatives, but the fourth involves benevilant aliens comming along to save our collective asses. This one is so remote I refuse to give it credence, and I'm an Arthure C. Clark fan.

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» RE: Die off, so says Scrooge Posted by: whealeydj
» RE: Die off, so says Scrooge Posted by: vertical
» You're pathetic, MaxPayne. Posted by: GuitarBill
» RE: Die off Posted by: 0d1um

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Original 1976 "60 Minutes" episode featuring Mary Tyler Moore
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Posted by: CRaPWHiSPeReR on Sep 25, 2009 10:43 AM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
For your discernment.

www.kickthemallout.com/article.php/ Video-60_Min_On_1976_Swine_Flu

(be sure to attach the two individual segments of URL, this site wouldn't let me post it in its entirety)

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On UK National Radio Now There is a Competetion For Song Of The Decade
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Posted by: tony_opmoc on Sep 25, 2009 10:50 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
The Current Number One Contender Is Not From a British Band.

They Do Not Come From London or Manchester = Nor Even Dublin.

The Number One Contender

Comes From

Berkeley, California

Green Day

American Idiot

Tony

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» New York Is Currently at Number 2 Posted by: tony_opmoc

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Swine flu windfall
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Posted by: myanh44 on Sep 25, 2009 10:59 AM   
Current rating: 3    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
How much do the bio-pharmaceutical companies stand to make? Read the following article

Swine flu windfall
Posted by Bob Grant
http://www.the-scientist.com/blog/display/55993/

Though a worrisome flu season is knocking at the Northern Hemisphere's door, the five biopharmaceutical companies awarded massive contracts by the US Department of Health and Human Services (HHS) for development and production of more than 195 million doses of swine flu vaccine can't really complain.

The companies -- Novartis, GlaxoSmithKline, MedImmune, Australian drug maker CSL, and Sanofi-Pasteur -- have been hard at work developing and testing vaccines since the H1N1 surfaced in the US, Mexico, and Canada early this spring. Though drug companies don't tend to make production costs public, these five will likely make a pretty penny as swine flu hits in earnest this fall.

Rachael David, a spokesperson for CSL, Australia, said in an email to The Scientist that the company has contracts to supply 21 million doses of a swine flu vaccine to the Australian government and USD $180 million worth of bulk antigen to the US. "Analysts have predicted that [CSL's profits from sale of the vaccine and ingredients] will be between AUS $250 and $300 million [USD $218 - $262 million]," David wrote.

The US government recently asked MedImmune, a Maryland-based subsidiary of drug maker AstraZeneca, to supply an additional 29 million doses of its live attenuated nasal spray swine flu vaccine, bringing the company's total contract to 40 million doses and more than $450 million. Karen Lancaster, a MedImmune spokesperson, told The Scientist that the cost per dose for the company's H1N1 vaccine is "a little less" than the cost per dose of the company's seasonal flu vaccine. In addition, Lancaster said, "We invested quite a lot in order to move up the production timeline" for the swine flu vaccine. Lancaster added that 3.5 million doses of the vaccine have been OK'd for release by the US Food and Drug Administration and they're ready to roll out the door when the government says go.

Sanofi-Pasteur was also asked to provide an additional 27 million doses of bulk antigen on top of the more than 75 million doses of monovalent swine flu vaccine it has already agreed to provide the US government. "We are pleased to be able to support the U.S. government's pandemic response efforts through the production of additional doses of A (H1N1) vaccine," Wayne Pisano, Sanofi Pasteur's CEO, said in a statement this week.

Novartis scored a whopping $690 million order from the US government this summer.

While these larger companies developed their vaccines using the tried and true chicken egg incubation method -- which can take up to six months -- smaller vaccine makers have had some success using alternative vaccine production technologies. For example, Maryland-based Novavax, uses virus-like particle (VLP) technology to manufacture vaccines, and they're experiencing some early success with their H1N1 shot. Less than one month after the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention released the sequence of the H1N1 strains' RNA in April, the company was able to develop swine flu VLPs, which can potentially be used to immunize people against infection. The company completed successful animal trails of the VLP vaccine and is now planning human trials.

This June, HHS poured $35 million into another biotech, Connecticut-based Protein Sciences, to produce a recombinant swine flu vaccine using insect viruses.

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» Just the start Posted by: leafsong1

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America is Currently At Number 3
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Posted by: tony_opmoc on Sep 25, 2009 11:29 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
The band do not come from California nor New York. In fact they don't even come from America.

They come from London, England and my Daughter is seeing them play live tonight at The Royal Albert Hall - for volunteering her time as a part of Rockcorps

The Number Three Contender

Razorlight

America

Tony

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» Who cares? Posted by: Wendiego

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i just read in Dayton Daily News of 4th Ohio death 22 yr old w/out insurance
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Posted by: whealeydj on Sep 25, 2009 11:33 AM   
Current rating: 3    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
the victim was 22 year old woman who delayed seeking care because she did not have health insurance. there have been back to school epidemics at Ohio colleges and many cases in KY so you left coasters may be sanguine and complacent but lack of focus on public health facilities in this country and health insurance for all may help spread the epidemic. we shall see in the next 3-6 months but I hope mr holland and other alternetters realize that a possible epidemic is serious business and this is no time to look for conspiracy theories about who profits.

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H1N1 or HIV?
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Posted by: HoboHomo on Sep 25, 2009 11:51 AM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
The last and only time I got a flu vaccine, was about 12 years ago. A lot of hysteria was created, frightening people like myself, to get vaccinated. Well, a couple months later, news announcers stated that some who received this particular vaccine may test false positive for HIV!

There was no followup, no further explanations on how long this false positive would remain in the system (forever?). I contacted hospitals in my are about six months later...they all claimed they had no idea what I was talking about.

No more flu vaccines for me!

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America is Also Currently At Number 5
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Posted by: tony_opmoc on Sep 25, 2009 12:07 PM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
I was almost certain that the photographer who was taking pictures last night was the same guy who did such a brilliant video of Motorhead at Guilfest a few months ago - but he denied it. He said it wasn't me, I wasn't there - but "Yes I do live in Guildford..." (lying cunt)

I'm cheating slightly here because America was originally performed - fucking ages ago...

But Lemmy is a Top Geezer - one of the nicest blokes you can meet - and no he is not an American - He comes from Stoke-on-Trent, England

Motorhead - Jailbait & America "

Tony

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bad joke so far
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Posted by: tazdelaney on Sep 25, 2009 12:14 PM   
Current rating: 3    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
it should be noted that donald rumsfeld is heavily infested in swine flu vaccines and makes his penny for every shot...

but what i want to stress here is that while it is possible that we could have a swine flue pandemic as bad or worse than the post-WWI flu epidemic that killed millions; in the meantime...

in 2007, the NYTimes published an unusual article from their usual suckup to the medical-psychiatric-pharma cabal. this piece stated that we had just passed a remarkable and unprecedented milesont and that as of 2006, the single biggest killer of americans was not cancers or heart problems... it was iatrogenics, 'medically-caused deaths.' the number given was some 730,000. this included the deaths from malpractice, largely surgical and these largely due to anaesthesiology, the most dangerous (and highly insured), of hospital procedures.

second on the list is much larger: misprescription/overprescription of pharmaceutical prescriptions. with the average 70-year-old american now taking 7 drugs in teh mdist of several thngs beyond that morass that confuse the body on so many medications... 12x more americans are dying from this than from all the illegal drugs combined. when we add that 8x more people are dying from illegally acquired legal drugs; we see that prescription pharmaceuticals is now responsible for 20x more deaths than the illegal drugs – yet virtually none of those users or dealers do any prison time...

but far and away the leading iatrogenic cause of deaths is now the superbugs and superstaph infections running amok in hospitals and its community.

these have largely been caused by insane abuse of antibiotics. kids got a cold, mom isn't satisfied unless he gets some pills. then the kid doesn't take the dosage for the full 2 weeks and as a result, that bug is now much stronger and growing immune to the antibiotics. the wall street journal recently said that we are rapidly moving into the 'post-antibiotic era.' this is terribly tragic as with proper usage, these would've been our great allies against diseases for ages to come. and who suffers most from their impotence? children.

last year, over 300 hospitals in america had to be closed due to their having become public health menaces. some hospitals now have warning signs at their entrances warning 'enter at your own risk' due to these bugs and staph.

so medicine itself is, at least now, enormously more dangerous than all flus. in fact, at the current soaring rate of iatrogenics deaths; it will surpass all cancer and heart deaths COMBINED by 2015!

also, over a thousand kids a year in america die from 'gun accidents' and suicide and murder rank #1 and #2 as teen killers here. and almost 16,000 americans a year die from drunk drivers. by contrast, 3,000 died on 911 (and by whose hands, really?) leading to trillions spent on 'the war of terror.'

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» RE: bad joke so far Posted by: aussidawg

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I knew it!
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Posted by: theblackgeorgecarlin on Sep 25, 2009 12:20 PM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
This whole swine flu "epidemic" is just an excuse to sell soap suds.

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part 2
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Posted by: tazdelaney on Sep 25, 2009 12:24 PM   
Current rating: 1    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
as paul virillio wrote in his great 1980s book, 'pure war,' any hospital is a potential CBW lab in operation, especially in its own lab. he also noted that all the weapons treaties never get resistance from the weapons-makers BECAUSE THEY KNOW THAT THE REALITY OF THE TREATIES IS THAT WE'VE MOVED TO THE NEXT LEVEL OF THAT WEAPONRY.

in the early 1990s, the french put together a UN CBW treaty which the US signed (then unsigned under bush.) it was a sham from the start in that it allowed what it ridiculously called 'defensive CBW R&D' of which common sense tells us that there is no such thing.

in 1999, a news item from NASA about certain virus research aboard the space station caused a brief furor because it showed that the US was not abiding its own treaty against space-based weapons or virus research. reading the NASA piece, it mentioned that in the space station, it was possible to manipulate viruses in a no-gravity situation and that viruses could also be set outside the craft into virtually zero degrees kelvin. it mentioned that in this state, viruses go into incredibly organized and easy-to-alter order which can then be captured...

under bush, the space-based weapons ban treaty was also 'unsigned.' after 911, bush set up 18, count em, 18 new CBW R&D centers. whistleblowing scientists pointed out that though most of these were in secreted locations, a couple were in heavily urban situations, like oakland and just outside boston... also, that bush had put cowboy cronies of his who knew nothing at al about science in charge of these places!

so while the haha, 'alpha parents' rush their 'manchurian children' to docs for vaccines and make them wear mouth covers and gloves to school and grocery stores (no kidding, i've seen both mom and kids like this here in NYC)... with the world at level 4-5 CBW, one accident and you can kiss your ass goodbye. good to know our asses are in such profoundly capable hands. so who can worry much about swine flu in the midst of this?

just as the fact of scores of aged nuclear reactors and 20,000 nuclear weapons on earth ensures future chernobyls and other such 'accidents'... it is nearly inevitable that someday, someone carrying ebola or the like, is going to get on a jet leaving moscow for paris, then onto a meeting in heathrow before heading to la guardia in NYC and onto ohare and LAX.

by the time he disembarks in LA, moscow's done. by the next morning...

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Number 7 is By a Musician From My Home Town and Is a Song About America...
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Posted by: tony_opmoc on Sep 25, 2009 12:55 PM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Well actually he comes from Davyhulme which is nearer Urmston than Oldham.

For some obscure reason the Politicians said we all come from Greater Manchester

Morrisey comes in at Number 7

America is not the world

Tony

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The US Government is At Number 9 - The Quality Is Appalling
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Posted by: tony_opmoc on Sep 25, 2009 1:42 PM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
US Government

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Deja vu all over again
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Posted by: willymack on Sep 25, 2009 1:55 PM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Apologies to baseball great, philosopher, elocutionist, and Zen master, Yogi Berra.
I was in the Navy in 1976, when I was ordered to get a (swine) flu shot. Several of my Navy colleagues got pretty sick from the shot. All I got was a red spot which went away in a few days.
As now, the whole swine flu scare was a SCAM.

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American Woman - Did Even Worse Than The US Government and Is at Number 10
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Posted by: tony_opmoc on Sep 25, 2009 1:56 PM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Why The Hell Can't You Keep Your Boys in Order?

And American Woman is not even by an American Band

Canada gets yet another entry in the US Top 10

The Guess Who

AMERICAN WOMAN

Tony

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has there LATELY been a media hype?
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Posted by: launcher on Sep 25, 2009 2:11 PM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
> "With the media pumping out story after fevered story of a unique and "deadly" new strain of influenza"

Actually, of late just about every story I've read about the H1N1 virus has been that it will be widespread but WON'T be that serious. I'm surprised to see Mr. Holland worked up so much about it.

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BS
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Posted by: sirios on Sep 25, 2009 4:25 PM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
even my father who is a seriously conservative retired MD says that the h1n1 scare is BS. more people die each year from complications with the "regular flu" than the swine flu. I personally think the hype is a conspiracy by the makers of tamiflu to rake in obscene profits.

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Rip It Up
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Posted by: tony_opmoc on Sep 25, 2009 6:23 PM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Rip It Up

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It's not panic, my good fellow, it's profits
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Posted by: dayahka on Sep 25, 2009 6:39 PM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
The media and the WHO and CDC work hand-in-glove with their corporate masters, in this case the pharmaceutical companies, looking for a boost in sales and profits from their prime profit-centers, the gullible public. And what better way to make a big killing, er profit, than to have the WHO and CDC start a panic and then get flu shots, which are wholly untested and filled with all sorts of toxins, to be mandated. The WHO and CDC--and the media--need to be investigated for collusion: who was bribed, who was promised, who received, who owns stock in the pharma companies? But, of course, when the corporations own the government, you can bet your sweet lips no investigation will ever be done and this blatantly irregular and unwarranted scaremongering will just go on on on.

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Dr T
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Posted by: Dr T on Sep 25, 2009 7:31 PM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
The swine flu isn't particularly virulent, however, it's a good test run to learn new behaviors for the future plagues.

The little things we learn to do to reduce transmission, e.g., washing our hands frequently, sneezing into our arm instead of hand, etc., will come in handy in the future.

The real plagues are coming - soon.

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The British Heavyweight Champion
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Posted by: tony_opmoc on Sep 25, 2009 8:35 PM   
Current rating: 1    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
I Never Get Violent When I'm Pissed...

I Just sometimes get a bit too affectionate and cuddly

None of the girls have ever complained

But I also do it to blokes as well - particularly if they are big and strong

And well I didn't know who he was. I'm not into boxing...

But he was the largest most powerful person I had ever seen

And I said - "Hello I am Tony" - and I shook his hand

"Can I have a cuddle?"

He said "Why do you want to cuddle me?"

"Go and cuddle a pretty little girl"

I said "I want to cuddle you"

"I just want to put my arms around you and hug you."

This incidentally was witnesed by a journalist friend of mine

He said almost immediately afterwards

"I can't believe you just did that"

I said "Are you jealous Johnny?"

He said "You have just hugged Gary Mason"

I said "Who's Gary Mason?"

From wiki..

"Pro Boxing Career

He fought 38 times as a professional in a career that spanned 10 years from 1984 to 1994, with 34 wins by knockout and only one loss, that being to Lennox Lewis when he challenged for the European title in 1991.

He suffered a detached retina in a bout with Everett Martin in 1990. After a short retirement he staged a comeback, which ended with a TKO loss to Lennox Lewis, which aggravated Mason's eye injury. He would come back once again, but after winning two fights in the U.S. he retired for good."

Gary Mason had turned up in our local pub to see the band

We all gave him a good time

Afterwards I Thought

WOW

I Have Personally Had a Cuddle With..and He Did Put His Arms Around Me Too

The British Heavyweight Champion

"Gary Mason (born December 15, 1962 in London, England, of Jamaican descent), is a retired British boxer who fought out of Chatham, Kent. He fought at heavyweight and became British heavyweight champion in 1989."

Tony

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H1N1 isnt scary...but the vaccines are!
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Posted by: brianct on Sep 26, 2009 1:49 AM   
Current rating: 1    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
People have been terrorised by WHO doctors, govts and the pharmaceutical corporations that control them, into taking vaccines for an illness that is not that dangerous...Yet the vaccine Tamiflu has some very serious side effects, so serious, the US govt has granted legal immunity to the manufacturers:

immunity for swine flu makers


Meanwhile, here is a little of what the govt is trying to defend:

'UK report of neurological damage from vaccine

According to a confidential warning letter written on July 29, 2009, a copy of which was leaked to the British newspaper, Daily Mail, the UK Government’s Health Protection Agency head of Immunization Department, Prof. Elizabeth Miller, warned British neurologists that the swine flu vaccine, which was briefly used in a mass vaccination program in 1976 in the USA until it was abruptly withdrawn because of dangerous side effects, is linked to Guillain-Barre Syndrome (GBS), a potentially deadly and nerve crippling of the central nervous system. Guillain-Barre Syndrome attacks the lining of the nerves, causing paralysis and inability to breathe, and can be fatal. It can cause paralysis of the breathing muscles that can cause death by suffocation.

The warning letter of Prof. Miller states, “The vaccines used to combat an expected swine influenza pandemic in 1976 were shown to be associated with GBS and were withdrawn from use." The US Government was forced in the 1976 Swine Flu scandal to pay out millions of dollars in damages to victims of GBS who had received the vaccine.'

vaccine causes paralysis

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Katiii
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Posted by: Katiii on Sep 26, 2009 5:31 AM   
Current rating: 1    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Down here in New Zealand we experienced the first season of the swine flu. There are 4 million of us here, 17 died of swine flu. That's not exactly a pandemic and our government didn't take any drastic actions anywhere. It's all hype and money for the drug companies once more.

We were offered Tamiflu if we were prepared to pay $80 which is out of the reach of many in this country.

So don't let anyone scare you into taking a vaccine, unless you already have a heart or chest condition, you'll probably be okay.
cheers
Kathy

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Flu Vaccine Exposed by Dr. Mercola
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Posted by: CRaPWHiSPeReR on Sep 26, 2009 5:48 AM   
Current rating: 2    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
For your discernment:

http://articles.mercola.com/sites/articles/archive /2009/09/26/Flu-Vaccine-Exposed.aspx

(be sure to attach the two segments of the URL, this site wouldn't allow to post in its entirety)

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Not that scary...really Joshua?...read on
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Posted by: blondesprite on Sep 26, 2009 6:37 AM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
I am going on day five of having the flu. I don't know yet if it is swine flu or just the usual seasonal flu. Frankly, I could give a sh*t!
I crawled, into my doctor's office on Tuesday and the throat culture results are not in yet.
She gave me a big fat painful cortisone shot in my butt and a prescription for an antibiotic that is large as a
rifle bullet. The Co-pay on the antibiotic alone was $40.00!
I was running fever of 102.7 and had to sit there and listen to my doc chew my ass for not getting a flu shot. FYI: I was waiting for the swine flu vaccine (Oct 1) so I could kill two birds with one stone.
Trust me, you really do not want to take your chances of getting this..... read on.

I honestly thought I was going to die Thursday evening and ya know what? I truly didn't care! All my joints were on fire, my skin felt like it was rotting off my body and I could barely sip water without wanting to wretch.
My eyeballs felt like all of Crystal Beach had blown into them, I had chills so bad that I climbed into an extremely hot tub of water, with a fever, to make them stop.
I have coughed so much, it feels like my rib cage is fractured and it hurts to breathe. The yellow mucous coming out of my lungs is thick as chewing gum and nearly gags me every time I cough.
It hurts to lie down and it hurts to sit up. I feel completely physically wrung out and as weak as a dirty wet kitchen towel.
My head feels three feet thick and my nose is raw and very sore. I have gone through three very large boxes of tissue.
No matter how much I am able to drink, my throat and mouth feel like I swallowed a box of salt.
I get dizzy when standing and my ears ring or buzz constantly. My bed linens smell like rotting meat and my breath (no matter how many times I brush my teeth) smells worse.
I have taken so much pain reliever/fever reducers, I am now worried about my liver!

Not that scary Joshua, think again.

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» (Part II) Posted by: CRaPWHiSPeReR

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Young-ism
[Report this comment]
Posted by: BST on Sep 26, 2009 11:42 AM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
H1N1 captured media attention because it purportedly is most likely to harm young people.

Seasonal flu kills old folks, like me, a ravaging viewed without alarm by a self-indulgent, Botox'ed American society unfazed by the pruning of a populace that's seen as taking up room and resources.

It's not the illness, H1N1, that has the bigshots in a dither, it's the relative value of the identified victims.

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The real danger
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Posted by: BST on Sep 26, 2009 11:49 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
The hype around flu and the convergence of seasonal flu, H1N1, pneumonia and common cold cases will tax emergency rooms to such an extent that people with true emergencies may find themselves languishing on hallways guerneys. This is a real travesty of the panic-mongering. It will hurt people, it may kill people -- by over-taxing medical resources so many patients with other afflictions do not get the attention and care they require. No one is talking about this "side effect."

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Never underestimate the ugliness of flu
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Posted by: BST on Sep 26, 2009 12:10 PM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Should you get a vaccine for flu? Only you can decide. But some frank talk about flu itself:

I am 65 on no meds and very healthy. In a lifetime I had never been ill until three years ago when I got the seasonal flu, then pneumonia on top -- and was out of commission for about 30 days. I would have laughed at anyone who told me this would be possible.

In years prior, I'd looked askance at people, including co-workers, who complained about the awful-ness of the flu, thinking to myself "Oh, just take some Tylenol and stay in bed and watch TV."

I was wrong, very very wrong. The flu with pneumonia was a terror of unimagined hell. That I could stay at home (I was then living alone)and not go into the ER was a miracle, a statement of stubbon-ness and resilience on my part and, perhaps, stupidity. I was so sick that on some days I barely cared what happened.

That year docs' offices were so overcrowded that I got seen by crawling out of my hell-pit, driving two miles to my doctor's office, waiting outside so as not to spread my germs around and finally after two such trips getting taken seriously enough for a chest X-ray. Voila...pneumonia. Then I was put on anti-biotics and finally lived.

I will get the seasonal flu shot. My age precludes me getting the H1N1 vaccine until everyone else does, so that decision has been taken from me for the time being. I'm concerned about both the shot and possible side effects since I'm a healthy gal overall and wanting to stay that way, and the illness.

But I'm no longer a skeptic on what flu can do. It can be really scary.

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Kaija
[Report this comment]
Posted by: Kaija on Sep 26, 2009 12:16 PM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
For detailed data about this "swine flu" see this recent linked text

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» RE: Kaija Posted by: Kaija

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Mededitor
[Report this comment]
Posted by: Mededitor on Sep 26, 2009 2:09 PM   
Current rating: 1    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Holland demonstrates in this article a profoundly irresponsible use of facts twisted to appear other than what they are.

Is this writer a sociopath? He fits the classic definition of "not restrained by any sense of ethics; thinks rules do not apply to him".

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» RE: Mededitor Posted by: blondesprite

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Go to the CDC web site for the facts
[Report this comment]
Posted by: blondesprite on Sep 26, 2009 5:31 PM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
This is what Mr. Holland should have instructed every one do.
I suppose a medical problem is only potentially serious if it involves coitus interruptions, huh Josh?

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Specious projection
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Posted by: SBean on Sep 27, 2009 7:17 AM   
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Josh, it's not "the projected toll", it's YOUR projected toll. You made the assumption that the death rate would remain steady throughout the flu season. What I've read is that flu experts are concerned because many deaths have occurred from H1N1 BEFORE the flu season has begun and that they are concerned that it will accelerate through the season.

Reconsider that assumption and you might have a different story.

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critical perspective
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Posted by: pbutler on Sep 27, 2009 11:55 AM   
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Check out a response from an experienced (and progressively-minded) epidemiologist at More crappy flu journalism, this time Alternet [rant alert!].

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» RE: critical perspective Posted by: blondesprite
» RE: critical perspective Posted by: leafsong1

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NY nurses reject swine flu vaccine, could lose jobs
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Posted by: brianct on Sep 27, 2009 11:59 PM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
NY nurses reject being given the vaccine, but could be fired if they do. Medical dictators say vaccine is safe...even when it isnt.

nurses reject vaccine

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Eating Pigs
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Posted by: Geniepi on Sep 29, 2009 7:31 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Eating pigs is like eating dog. No one should do it.

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response article
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Posted by: Diggs on Sep 29, 2009 8:52 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
If you haven't already read it, I recommend an article which responds to this one on counterpunch.org. Stephen Soldz writes Spreading Hysteria About Swine Flu "Hysteria".


http://counterpunch.com/soldz09292009.html

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Roadblocks, Refusals, and Whistleblowers
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Posted by: femtobeam on Oct 1, 2009 2:17 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Put these three together for a link to the whistleblower about roadblocks in California on Oct 15.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?

v=my1XJ_NlH4Q&annotation_id=

annotation_189971&feature=iv

This is from a Dr. on the fertility (or lack therof) associated with H1N1

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mbfUJrMQytI&feature=related

Nurses in New York refuse vaccines and lose their jobs.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?

v=A7wBwOEsw2I&feature=player_embedded



There are dangers associated with both the flu and the vaccines and there are plans for microchipping and embedded devices as well.

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impact of overpopulation
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Posted by: lukewatson on Oct 8, 2009 2:04 PM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
With the impact of overpopulation on the Earth there are only four possible outcomes. The first, resources are running out and then there is a nuclear war over those resources that wipes out most of life on the planet. The second, we avoid a nuclear war but there is a famine were billions starve to death, and you know humans in their bid for survival will kill every living thing on the planet. Buy specialist The third is the plague I am praying for, and if that happens millions of other species will be saved from extinction, plus future generations will have a chance at a good life. Remember this, there would have never been a Rennisance without a Black Plague. Wishing for plague is just the lesser of three evils.

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hi
[Report this comment]
Posted by: wallace530 on Oct 13, 2009 6:34 PM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
uggs, with a legendary brand, first to see the snow ugg boots ,Ugg people will not Ben Ben flu cartoon form, and is a boots, as a result of many European and American film star has adequate Gordon Street Ugg snow boots and a pretty popular in Europe and America look like the earth, Ugg blowing sustained winds of the popular Madden, in Japan, Taiwan has a lot of fans Ugg.ugg boots sale - ugg australia

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Alternet Comments:

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Cui Bono?
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Posted by: Revolutionary (Direct) Democracy on Sep 25, 2009 12:43 AM   
Current rating: 3    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
The connection between Donald Rumsfeld and the makers of Tamiflu is well established. Who is cashing in on the current climate of deliberately induced public hysteria?


FREE AMERICA

REVOLUTIONARY (DIRECT) DEMOCRACY

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» Are you serious... Posted by: EncinoM
» It's not the virus that is of concern? Posted by: photon's feather

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It could be so much worse...
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Posted by: HeroesAll on Sep 25, 2009 1:31 AM   
Current rating: 3    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
...it could be ebola. There's a situation to chill the blood: a highly contagious extremely nasty disease that would see hospital walls caked in blood (quite literally).

Swine flu, OTOH, seems to be a flu that's about as contagious as other flus, with a mortality rate like other flus. It is, in short, pretty much like other flus. Kudos to the medical fraternity for preparing for the worst, but there are oh so many other things to worry about.

And yes, malaria. Of course, the media don't care about that because it mainly kills poor brown and black people in furr'n countries.

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» Wrong on DDT Posted by: brunowe
» %^) Posted by: GuitarBill

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Swine Flop
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Posted by: DavidMac on Sep 25, 2009 1:31 AM   
Current rating: 3    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Yet another "crisis" going to waste . . . "We must pass the health-care bill NOW before we all die from the swine flu pandemic!!" (or not).

Chicken Little Syndrome is alive and well in the Obama administration, even if the Swine Flu "Pandemic" isn't.

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1957 and before
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Posted by: Blacktiger1 on Sep 25, 2009 1:32 AM   
Current rating: 3    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Those people born before 1957 are supposed to be immune naturally. Those in the senior bracket who had regular flu shots last year may be vulnerable to H1N1, Canadian Gov. is not pressing for inoculations at present, on a wait and see road.

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» You're an idiot, MaxLexJen Posted by: GuitarBill

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Soccer mommies in peril
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Posted by: teel on Sep 25, 2009 1:47 AM   
Current rating: 2    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Nobody gives a crap about aids, ebola, hanta, malaria or plague because those things happen to dirty poor brown people. Not to Mrs Apple on Happy Clam Avenue.

But now there's a DISEASE. It could happen to ME. It could happen to my over-protected, over-fed KIDS.

SOMEBODY DO SOMETHING!!

Aaaaaand of course media and goverments are all to happy to join in the panic.

The people at risk are people with other medical issues, infants and the elderly. What else is new?

Stay fearful people, it's bound to help.

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» RE: Soccer mommies in peril Posted by: richholland
» ROTHFLMAO........... Posted by: CynicI

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thank you
[Report this comment]
Posted by: jrgjniew on Sep 25, 2009 2:25 AM   
Current rating: 3    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
WOW, A very factual article that reaches a proper conclusion! No animal rights, mixingbowl hog confinement, antibiotic stews, etc. remarks that would be expected on Alternet articles(and have been printed, cussed and discussed). Thank you!!!

The only part missing, is how the hysteria is contributing to the devastation of the pork production industry. It has a very steep demand curve, thus the slightest downturn in demand causes a hugely disproportionate drop in price. It is devasting hog farmers incomes and lives. Several billion dollars in losses have been accumulated since April, at a time when we were supposed to finally reach profitability after two years of losses that were created primarilly due to high feed costs. It is at least refreshing to find a truthful, accurate article in Alternet, that is not "trashing" our industry. Please, go buy some delicious pork products today, and enjoy them this weekend!!!!!

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» RE: thank you Posted by: noir

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Swine Flu is a Media Analogy Representing The Real Story of The Virus of Insane Corruption...
[Report this comment]
Posted by: tony_opmoc on Sep 25, 2009 2:42 AM   
Current rating: 3    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
That is infecting all aspects of World Society due to its Top Down Dictatorship Power Style.

The real effects of Swine Flu are mass impoverishment of all but a tiny elite of Pigs who are laughing at us.

Even the completely forgettable leader of the UK "Liberal" Party describes this process as "Progressive Austerity"

He might have well as said its time to bend over and take your flu jab up the arse.

Things are not good, and all we can hope for is that the men in white coats developing the next strain make a "slight" mistake, and instead of decimating the general population instead take out all the pigs - the pigs being the subject of books by Andrew Lobaczewski "Political Ponerology" and Martha Stout "The Sociopath Next Door"

link

Extract

"Imagine - if you can - not having a conscience, none at all, no feelings of guilt or remorse no matter what you do, no limiting sense of concern for the well-being of strangers, friends, or even family members. Imagine no struggles with shame, not a single one in your whole life, no matter what kind of selfish, lazy, harmful, or immoral action you had taken.

And pretend that the concept of responsibility is unknown to you, except as a burden others seem to accept without question, like gullible fools.

Now add to this strange fantasy the ability to conceal from other people that your psychological makeup is radically different from theirs. Since everyone simply assumes that conscience is universal among human beings, hiding the fact that you are conscience-free is nearly effortless.

You are not held back from any of your desires by guilt or shame, and you are never confronted by others for your cold-bloodedness. The ice water in your veins is so bizarre, so completely outside of their personal experience, that they seldom even guess at your condition.

In other words, you are completely free of internal restraints, and your unhampered liberty to do just as you please, with no pangs of conscience, is conveniently invisible to the world.

You can do anything at all, and still your strange advantage over the majority of people, who are kept in line by their consciences will most likely remain undiscovered.

How will you live your life?"

This describe the people in control of us. They are evil psychopaths and we need to find a cure for them.

Tony

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All done and dusted......
[Report this comment]
Posted by: Captainmagic on Sep 25, 2009 3:00 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Apparently Australia is poised to inoculate it's entire population shortly and all those who should want a shot can go get it free. Trials on their vaccine there have been so positive that its all over red rover for h1n1 forever.....

Meanwhile dastardly deals are taking place to launch the next money grab.....

Captain OUT

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» I SURE HOPE YOU RETURN! Posted by: photon's feather

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Negligent Misallocation of Resources
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Posted by: drricklippin on Sep 25, 2009 3:19 AM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
IMAGINE...JUST IMAGINE... that all the money and resources we have squandered on H1N1 flu issue over years (about to fizzle) were spent on establishing basic health centers in poor minority communities.

Dr. Rick Lippin
Southampton,Pa

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Don't forget the 9/11 Truthers
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Posted by: Perry Logan on Sep 25, 2009 3:26 AM   
Current rating: 3    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
We can't talk about swine flu without mentioning the 9/11 Truth Movement, many of whose members are in the forefront of trying to scare everyone to death about the flu.

In case you've missed it, many Truther types say the flu is "obviously artificial," created by our evil secret masters to destroy the world.

This is when they're not saying the vaccines were created by our evil secret masters to destroy the world. Depends on which Truther you're talking to.

Truthers always say any contagion is a government plot to kill everybody. Many of them said the bird flu was part of a CFR plot to kill your mother and would devastate the world.

Fortunately, Truther predictions never come true. ;)

In my view, the 9/11 Truthers are relatively harmless (despite the fact they are making false accusations of mass murder, which can't be good for your karma), but when they start scaring people about vaccines they are adversely hurting the public health.

I live in Austin, TX, which has more than its share of Truthers and Patriots and the like. Conspiracy theorist extraordinaire Alex JOnes hails from Austin.

Alex thinks vaccines are part of a secret government plot to kill us all. But then, Alex thinks just about everything under the sun is part of a secret government plot to kill us all.

As you might expect, all this anti-flu talk has its usual effect of raising the infectious disease rate in Austin, as Truthers send their unvaccinated children to spread gerns to the rest of the population.

Go, Truthers!

Three excellent 9/11 Truth Movement debunking pages:
http://www.911myths.com/
http://www.debunking911.com/
http://wtc7lies.googlepages.com/home

And a lovely video:
Sad About the Young

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» 9/11 Truthers Posted by: progressivetype
» The twin towers imploded perfectly Posted by: jonodavidson
» Idiotic comment Posted by: leafsong1
» RE: Don't forget the 9/11 Truthers Posted by: Rhondamarie
» My God, Posted by: EncinoM
» No doubt about it Posted by: GuitarBill
» Who's the troll, "prophit(0)"? Posted by: GuitarBill

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Typical knee jerk reaction
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Posted by: the man with a dog on Sep 25, 2009 3:27 AM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
After scaremongering by certain parties drug companies have badgered governments to produce drugs to combat the much hyped "pandemic"

Here in the UK they have promises from our government to purchase multi millions of their "new found vacine" at a cost of £6 ($9.7)per shot.Incidentally they accept the fact that it costs £1($1.6) to produce the vaccine. Which is a nice little earner for the drug company.

Incidentally these drugs have not had any length of time to be tested so its a matter of crossing your fingers before being injected

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» RE: Typical knee jerk reaction Posted by: richholland
» RE: Typical knee jerk reaction Posted by: the man with a dog

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h1n1 is different
[Report this comment]
Posted by: robchapman on Sep 25, 2009 4:21 AM   
Current rating: 3    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
This article, replete with statistics telling the reader how innocuous H1N1 is is misleading.

H1N1 is highly contagious, and seems particularly virulent among a populations segment that spend their days crammed together like sardines: school children and college students.

After incubating in the bodies of children, the full blown infection then strikes their care-givers, parents and teachers and knocks them down, too.

While H1N1 may be a low liklihood of death, dealing with a sick child is an emotionally draining experience. Catching the kid's illness and being miserably sick is no bed of roses either.

It is vitally important that the vaccine be developed that the susceptible populations be vaccinated and that human suffering be reduced.

If the lefty types reading and writing in alternet are so full of vitriol that all they can see is conspiracy, they have reduced themselves to mirror images of the right-wing haters spouting their exotica and absurb venom.

Robert Chapman
Lansing, NY

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» Every flu is different Posted by: leafsong1

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RISK PERCEPTION-NEW IDEAS
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Posted by: drricklippin on Sep 25, 2009 4:22 AM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
I teach this topic of risk perception at the University level- The "father" of this field is Prof Paul Slovic from the University of Oregon. Prof Bart Laws of Tufts is my dear e-friend/colleague who taught me how to blog in 2005-forever grateful!

Here are some new ideas I put forth on Risk Perception

Premise- Before puberty early neuro-psychiatric influence set human limits on our risk perception capacities resulting in a relatively fixed lifelong “risk perception style”.

These influences include:

-Parental views on risk
-Early childhood religious trainings and teachings
-Early educational influences
-Early media influences
-Early peer influences (local culture)
-Socio-Economic Status (SES)
nutrition
environmental toxins
access to quality healthcare
others
-Exposure to early childhood events including major illnesses, injuries and natural or manmade catastrophes

These influences have a profound impact on:

-LOCUS OF CONTROL
-WORLDVIEW(S) OF DISEASE CAUSATION
-RELGIOSITY
-NEURO-PERCEPTUAL SKILLS

I might add an additional much more sinister (hopefully rare) one which is the purposeful spread of misinformation to achieve political ends.

Dr. Rick Lippin
Southampton,Pa

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Recombinant Virus - Not Business As Usual
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Posted by: paxus on Sep 25, 2009 4:46 AM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
This is apparently not business as usual and according to some experts here and in Europe appears lab created, possibly spread by accident at best.

It combines 1918 flu, avian bird flu and swine flu---and a second wave is supposed to mysteriously mutate into nasty virulence

FYI, See here

and and here

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Thanks, Josh
[Report this comment]
Posted by: ETSpoon on Sep 25, 2009 5:54 AM   
Current rating: 4    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Thanks for a piece on the swine flu that doesn't have panic written all over it.

Too bad your article won't get broader coverage. The M$M should pick this article up but won't.

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Periodic media alarms are simply to sell vaccines
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Posted by: leafsong1 on Sep 25, 2009 6:06 AM   
Current rating: 4    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
This happens every few years now. SARS and the avian flu were totally overblown as well. It is humiliating to witness the cowardly way that modern Americans deal with these minor hazards. Home of the brave my ass.

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Damn right ! You da man Josh !
[Report this comment]
Posted by: maxpayne on Sep 25, 2009 6:54 AM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
But here's something else to consider. It's time to SHUT DOWN BIG PHARMA and I'm proud not to buy any of their shit. I'll stick to natural herbs and stay flu proof as always. That alone shall give Big Pharma the middle finger.

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Not bad? Bad enough if you have to take the trip!
[Report this comment]
Posted by: BillGresho on Sep 25, 2009 7:08 AM   
Current rating: 3    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
It seems that the thrust of this posting is that if it doesn't kill you, it AIN'T bad. To quote: "tens of thousands die as a result -- most of them very old or very young or people whose immune systems are already compromised.

The vast majority of people who catch a case of flu feel like crap for a few days or a week, and then they recover."

So just don't be old or young or have compromised immune systems. At 67 with a compromised immune systems, I'm there. Thanks buster.

Perhaps the writer should go through the experience. What an attitude! Too bad for those whose immune systems are compromised.

Just check out the two Huffington Post postings by two physicians who went through the experience: "I went to Afghanistan and all I got was H1N1". Huffington Post Posting by Dr. Sanjay Gupta (of CNN fame).

"Love in the Time of Swine Flu: A Story in Three Acts". Huffington Post Posting by Dr. Larry Brilliant.

It is not a pretty picture and definitely could be trouble for those with poor health. I just experienced a bacterial infection (endocarditis) with similar symptoms though a different driving force. Spent a week at Brigham Women's in Boston. It could have been fatal. I don't wish the experience on anyone (even the writer, though on second thought it just might change his attitude).

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» It's the flu. Get over it. Posted by: leafsong1
» RE: It's the flu. Get over it. Posted by: BillGresho
» yikes.. you're scaring me.. Posted by: CRaPWHiSPeReR
» LOL do I detect a note of sarcasm? Posted by: CRaPWHiSPeReR

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Jaws vs Chicken Little
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Posted by: Dr Dan on Sep 25, 2009 7:09 AM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Uncertainty is a bear. What will happen with H1N1? We don't know. There's the rub. I'm a research psychologist and work in public health. When I teach or talk about H1N1 I cast the psychology of it as Jaws vs Chicken Little. Recall in Jaws the town of Amity Island didn't want to panic the tourists because it would cut into revenue. That's one end of the spectrum. On the other end, Chicken Little panics and makes a mess of things. So what do we do? We prepare, we plan. We suggest appropriate activities like hand washing and if someone is sick, that they stay home. And we prepare, the advantage of which is that if we're prepared for a serious H1N1 outbreak, we'll also be prepared for other disasters, health-related, natural events, whatever. As an insider, I don’t see anyone panicking or sending out panicky nonsense (I don’t work in the media, won’t talk for them). We’re involved in due diligence for the welfare of our society, the world.

This article errs on the side of certainty, in this author’s case certainty that H1N1 is no big deal. He decries those who err on the other side of certainty. Here’s the deal, is what we’re seeing a repeat of 1968 or 1918? The truthful answer is that we don’t know. But due diligence suggests we need to accept that a repeat of 1918 could happen, and we should be prepared. Let’s say that it does repeat (or is even worse) and we followed the advice to do nothing or very little. On the backend of that scenario, the public, probably Mr Holland included, would be bashing us for having called it wrong and not done enough.

And the difference between seasonal flu and this H1N1 is in fact significant. What we know as seasonal flu has held the pattern of evolving in fairly restricted limits, in fairly predictable patterns. It seems to hold in a fairly stable range of virulence. This H1N1 is “novel” which means that it is unstable and we don’t really have any way of predicting how it will evolve (I’m not a microbiologist, this is what I understand of the issues). So, H1N1 could burn itself out, or it could just as easily ratchet up and become virulent. Right now H1N1 has pretty much followed the 1918 pattern. A small “bump” in illness occurs in the spring of the year, then goes pretty dormant over the summer. In 1918 it came back with a vengeance, both in terms of the number of cases and its virulence in the late fall. Will it happen that way this time? We don’t know. But we all of us had better be prepared, not panicked, not freaked out, just prepared. The people I know are doing just that. And the people I work with are doing their best to assure that my communities will be protected if 1918 repeats. It is exactly what we should be doing as public servants.

By the way, I agree that we need more funding and more efforts in other health domains like HIV. But that’s an attack that needs to be leveled at the sources of our funding, what we are allowed to do at the local levels. The people in my County who work in HIV prevention, for example, are among the hardest working and most dedicated people I know. They do a lot with the pittance that we’re given to spend on this scourge.

Daniel Jordan, PhD

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Making $$$ and keeping control
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Posted by: raginghormones on Sep 25, 2009 7:29 AM   
Current rating: 3    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
There are two very simple reasons, actually, for the flu hysteria:

Making money

and

Control

The first is important if you are a businessman. The second is important if you are a politician.

For the businessman: money opportunities in drugs and shots and potions.

For the politician: opportunities in further diverting the masses from the REAL problems and another excuse to implement security and restrictive laws.

Swine flu---it's the best of both worlds for these guys.

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It's all about selling vaccines
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Posted by: Ruby on Sep 25, 2009 8:16 AM   
Current rating: 3    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
The public has been primed to accept that some kind of flu, or other disease, will eventually swoop down upon the globe and decimate us all.

There was SARS, West Nile virus, the bird flu scare (not sure if I got these in the right order) and now the swine flu--and interesting and completely unnatural mix of human, swine and avian flu. Are we really supposed to believe no one is behind this for the money? Come on.

Even back in 2002, the Homeland Security Act put in last minute (literally) provisions to protect pharmaceutical companies from liability regarding vaccines, although they already are pretty well protected. This was designed to be retroactive specifically to protect companies who were being sued for vaccine damage due to mercury.

The swine flu vaccine is an experimental vaccine--actually more than one kind, some with mercury/and or squalene and a mist version. Google squalene to find out just why we should not allow this into our babies and pregnant women. It will not be sufficiently tested, short or long term, before being given to trusting people. Despite this, it was decided two doses would be necessary. Oops, now it's only one. They can't make up their minds.

Think about it: our government ordered 190 million doses of it before it was even made, let alone "tested." They do not intend for it to sit on the shelves.

In NY, hospital staff, including doctors, have been ordered by the health commissioner to get flu shots or be terminated. Forced swine flu vaccines will likely be next. Mass vaccination clinics are being planned for schools as we speak. States are enacting laws for forced vaccination for all residents, some without exemptions or quarantine provisions for families, and most will fine you if you use an exemption.

Our rights to choose medical treatments and our rights to informed consent are about to be taken from us. If you value them, I suggest you contact your legislators and let them know.

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How Did H1N1 Reverse Engineer Itself?
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Posted by: Ross Wolf on Sep 25, 2009 9:57 AM   
Current rating: 2    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
It is interesting how the “new Swine Flu” is so genetically different from the H1N1 “seasonal influenza virus”, that still circulates after two years. Interesting, because the new flu appears to have “reverse engineered itself” to infect humans after incorporating DNA found in avian, swine and human viruses, including elements found in European and Asian swine viruses. It is a mystery how the DNA from the aforementioned viruses managed to combine their proteins with H1N1 flu viruses that emanated from the 1918 Spanish flu, then mix with swine flu genes from pigs, making it possible to infect humans.

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Say no to FOR PROFIT drug companies
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Posted by: lawkoza on Sep 25, 2009 9:57 AM   
Current rating: 3    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
They only care about their bottom line. this includes making it impossible to sue them. Now, under the corporatist Supreme Court, they are going to be declared "persons" with all the rights, but no responsibilities of humans. They are always behind on the latest viral mutation, so what's the point in getting a shot if you've had flu many times in your life. I did agree to a pneumonia vaccine, since that is why most older people die from the flu. Only people with children should worry because children cook up such horrible colds and flu with their weak immune systems.

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Quick get a flu shot now!
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Posted by: DaBear on Sep 25, 2009 10:02 AM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Even though the flu shot you'll get doesn't prevent H1N1 and more than half the rest of the flu viruses out there.

Recently some dipshit in our public school morass tried to convince me to get the flu shot (something I've successfully avoided for the past few years) and make my kids get it. "Flu season is here!"

Um no, in socal that'd be January, honey, we're not in upstate NY. Has the Target/Walmart phenomenon infected everyone's ability to recognize the local climate patterns? Jeebus in socal these days you can't get a beach umbrella after June because it's a "seasonal item" so everyone things the beach is only accessible from June to August.... I know don't complain less morons to wade through to go surfing in October. Count my blessings.

No to mention the strains of flu my family typically gets are NOT covered by the typical flu shot. It has never ceased to amaze me that despite all the flu shots, the flu is the most common malady around these parts. WTF is up with that?! Quick! Pee on my leg and tell me it's raining! Please!

This is the result of standards based education (instead of concepts based, where you actually learn how to build knowledge naturally by thinking more effectively, how horrible!)... you get a bunch of numbnutters squawking on about getting medications for stuff that med won't deal with... quick! take Tylenol, you're bleeding out!

And they still insist it's the "best prevention".... jeebus we're a nation of the brain dead led by the village idiots with all the money.

Swine flu, swine flu, swine flu! Hope change hope change hope CHANGE!

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Home of the Brave (ROFLOL)
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Posted by: ShrubtheWarcriminal on Sep 25, 2009 10:20 AM   
Current rating: 4    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
If we go back to the beginning we shall find that ignorance and fear created the gods; that weakness worships them; that credulity preserves them, and that custom, respect and tyranny support them in order to make the blindness of men serve its own interests. Hence the essence of religion that keeps the members in the fold.

This is no different for politicians…keep them ignorant and afraid and you can control them. And this country has some of the most ignorant people around.

As for the printed media, they are panic peddlers. Create an overload of “journalists” from the universities and they will have to compete for “stories” to justify their existence.

Journalists today are just tools for the owners (like Rupert Murdock) to make a profit. There is very little actual searching for the truth today.

Land of the free and home of the BRAVE…my ass!

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Die off
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Posted by: vertical on Sep 25, 2009 10:38 AM   
Current rating: 3    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
This on the surface sounds terrible, but a day does not go by that I do not pray for a plague to wipe out a couple billion humans.

With the impact of overpopulation on the Earth there are only four possible outcomes. The first, resources are running out and then there is a nuclear war over those resources that wipes out most of life on the planet. The second, we avoid a nuclear war but there is a famine were billions starve to death, and you know humans in their bid for survival will kill every living thing on the planet. The third is the plague I am praying for, and if that happens millions of other species will be saved from extinction, plus future generations will have a chance at a good life. Remember this, there would have never been a Rennisance without a Black Plague. Wishing for plague is just the lesser of three evils.

I said four alternatives, but the fourth involves benevilant aliens comming along to save our collective asses. This one is so remote I refuse to give it credence, and I'm an Arthure C. Clark fan.

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» RE: Die off, so says Scrooge Posted by: whealeydj
» RE: Die off, so says Scrooge Posted by: vertical
» You're pathetic, MaxPayne. Posted by: GuitarBill
» RE: Die off Posted by: 0d1um

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Original 1976 "60 Minutes" episode featuring Mary Tyler Moore
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Posted by: CRaPWHiSPeReR on Sep 25, 2009 10:43 AM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
For your discernment.

www.kickthemallout.com/article.php/ Video-60_Min_On_1976_Swine_Flu

(be sure to attach the two individual segments of URL, this site wouldn't let me post it in its entirety)

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On UK National Radio Now There is a Competetion For Song Of The Decade
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Posted by: tony_opmoc on Sep 25, 2009 10:50 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
The Current Number One Contender Is Not From a British Band.

They Do Not Come From London or Manchester = Nor Even Dublin.

The Number One Contender

Comes From

Berkeley, California

Green Day

American Idiot

Tony

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» New York Is Currently at Number 2 Posted by: tony_opmoc

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Swine flu windfall
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Posted by: myanh44 on Sep 25, 2009 10:59 AM   
Current rating: 3    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
How much do the bio-pharmaceutical companies stand to make? Read the following article

Swine flu windfall
Posted by Bob Grant
http://www.the-scientist.com/blog/display/55993/

Though a worrisome flu season is knocking at the Northern Hemisphere's door, the five biopharmaceutical companies awarded massive contracts by the US Department of Health and Human Services (HHS) for development and production of more than 195 million doses of swine flu vaccine can't really complain.

The companies -- Novartis, GlaxoSmithKline, MedImmune, Australian drug maker CSL, and Sanofi-Pasteur -- have been hard at work developing and testing vaccines since the H1N1 surfaced in the US, Mexico, and Canada early this spring. Though drug companies don't tend to make production costs public, these five will likely make a pretty penny as swine flu hits in earnest this fall.

Rachael David, a spokesperson for CSL, Australia, said in an email to The Scientist that the company has contracts to supply 21 million doses of a swine flu vaccine to the Australian government and USD $180 million worth of bulk antigen to the US. "Analysts have predicted that [CSL's profits from sale of the vaccine and ingredients] will be between AUS $250 and $300 million [USD $218 - $262 million]," David wrote.

The US government recently asked MedImmune, a Maryland-based subsidiary of drug maker AstraZeneca, to supply an additional 29 million doses of its live attenuated nasal spray swine flu vaccine, bringing the company's total contract to 40 million doses and more than $450 million. Karen Lancaster, a MedImmune spokesperson, told The Scientist that the cost per dose for the company's H1N1 vaccine is "a little less" than the cost per dose of the company's seasonal flu vaccine. In addition, Lancaster said, "We invested quite a lot in order to move up the production timeline" for the swine flu vaccine. Lancaster added that 3.5 million doses of the vaccine have been OK'd for release by the US Food and Drug Administration and they're ready to roll out the door when the government says go.

Sanofi-Pasteur was also asked to provide an additional 27 million doses of bulk antigen on top of the more than 75 million doses of monovalent swine flu vaccine it has already agreed to provide the US government. "We are pleased to be able to support the U.S. government's pandemic response efforts through the production of additional doses of A (H1N1) vaccine," Wayne Pisano, Sanofi Pasteur's CEO, said in a statement this week.

Novartis scored a whopping $690 million order from the US government this summer.

While these larger companies developed their vaccines using the tried and true chicken egg incubation method -- which can take up to six months -- smaller vaccine makers have had some success using alternative vaccine production technologies. For example, Maryland-based Novavax, uses virus-like particle (VLP) technology to manufacture vaccines, and they're experiencing some early success with their H1N1 shot. Less than one month after the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention released the sequence of the H1N1 strains' RNA in April, the company was able to develop swine flu VLPs, which can potentially be used to immunize people against infection. The company completed successful animal trails of the VLP vaccine and is now planning human trials.

This June, HHS poured $35 million into another biotech, Connecticut-based Protein Sciences, to produce a recombinant swine flu vaccine using insect viruses.

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» Just the start Posted by: leafsong1

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America is Currently At Number 3
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Posted by: tony_opmoc on Sep 25, 2009 11:29 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
The band do not come from California nor New York. In fact they don't even come from America.

They come from London, England and my Daughter is seeing them play live tonight at The Royal Albert Hall - for volunteering her time as a part of Rockcorps

The Number Three Contender

Razorlight

America

Tony

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» Who cares? Posted by: Wendiego

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i just read in Dayton Daily News of 4th Ohio death 22 yr old w/out insurance
[Report this comment]
Posted by: whealeydj on Sep 25, 2009 11:33 AM   
Current rating: 3    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
the victim was 22 year old woman who delayed seeking care because she did not have health insurance. there have been back to school epidemics at Ohio colleges and many cases in KY so you left coasters may be sanguine and complacent but lack of focus on public health facilities in this country and health insurance for all may help spread the epidemic. we shall see in the next 3-6 months but I hope mr holland and other alternetters realize that a possible epidemic is serious business and this is no time to look for conspiracy theories about who profits.

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H1N1 or HIV?
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Posted by: HoboHomo on Sep 25, 2009 11:51 AM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
The last and only time I got a flu vaccine, was about 12 years ago. A lot of hysteria was created, frightening people like myself, to get vaccinated. Well, a couple months later, news announcers stated that some who received this particular vaccine may test false positive for HIV!

There was no followup, no further explanations on how long this false positive would remain in the system (forever?). I contacted hospitals in my are about six months later...they all claimed they had no idea what I was talking about.

No more flu vaccines for me!

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America is Also Currently At Number 5
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Posted by: tony_opmoc on Sep 25, 2009 12:07 PM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
I was almost certain that the photographer who was taking pictures last night was the same guy who did such a brilliant video of Motorhead at Guilfest a few months ago - but he denied it. He said it wasn't me, I wasn't there - but "Yes I do live in Guildford..." (lying cunt)

I'm cheating slightly here because America was originally performed - fucking ages ago...

But Lemmy is a Top Geezer - one of the nicest blokes you can meet - and no he is not an American - He comes from Stoke-on-Trent, England

Motorhead - Jailbait & America "

Tony

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bad joke so far
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Posted by: tazdelaney on Sep 25, 2009 12:14 PM   
Current rating: 3    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
it should be noted that donald rumsfeld is heavily infested in swine flu vaccines and makes his penny for every shot...

but what i want to stress here is that while it is possible that we could have a swine flue pandemic as bad or worse than the post-WWI flu epidemic that killed millions; in the meantime...

in 2007, the NYTimes published an unusual article from their usual suckup to the medical-psychiatric-pharma cabal. this piece stated that we had just passed a remarkable and unprecedented milesont and that as of 2006, the single biggest killer of americans was not cancers or heart problems... it was iatrogenics, 'medically-caused deaths.' the number given was some 730,000. this included the deaths from malpractice, largely surgical and these largely due to anaesthesiology, the most dangerous (and highly insured), of hospital procedures.

second on the list is much larger: misprescription/overprescription of pharmaceutical prescriptions. with the average 70-year-old american now taking 7 drugs in teh mdist of several thngs beyond that morass that confuse the body on so many medications... 12x more americans are dying from this than from all the illegal drugs combined. when we add that 8x more people are dying from illegally acquired legal drugs; we see that prescription pharmaceuticals is now responsible for 20x more deaths than the illegal drugs – yet virtually none of those users or dealers do any prison time...

but far and away the leading iatrogenic cause of deaths is now the superbugs and superstaph infections running amok in hospitals and its community.

these have largely been caused by insane abuse of antibiotics. kids got a cold, mom isn't satisfied unless he gets some pills. then the kid doesn't take the dosage for the full 2 weeks and as a result, that bug is now much stronger and growing immune to the antibiotics. the wall street journal recently said that we are rapidly moving into the 'post-antibiotic era.' this is terribly tragic as with proper usage, these would've been our great allies against diseases for ages to come. and who suffers most from their impotence? children.

last year, over 300 hospitals in america had to be closed due to their having become public health menaces. some hospitals now have warning signs at their entrances warning 'enter at your own risk' due to these bugs and staph.

so medicine itself is, at least now, enormously more dangerous than all flus. in fact, at the current soaring rate of iatrogenics deaths; it will surpass all cancer and heart deaths COMBINED by 2015!

also, over a thousand kids a year in america die from 'gun accidents' and suicide and murder rank #1 and #2 as teen killers here. and almost 16,000 americans a year die from drunk drivers. by contrast, 3,000 died on 911 (and by whose hands, really?) leading to trillions spent on 'the war of terror.'

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» RE: bad joke so far Posted by: aussidawg

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I knew it!
[Report this comment]
Posted by: theblackgeorgecarlin on Sep 25, 2009 12:20 PM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
This whole swine flu "epidemic" is just an excuse to sell soap suds.

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part 2
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Posted by: tazdelaney on Sep 25, 2009 12:24 PM   
Current rating: 1    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
as paul virillio wrote in his great 1980s book, 'pure war,' any hospital is a potential CBW lab in operation, especially in its own lab. he also noted that all the weapons treaties never get resistance from the weapons-makers BECAUSE THEY KNOW THAT THE REALITY OF THE TREATIES IS THAT WE'VE MOVED TO THE NEXT LEVEL OF THAT WEAPONRY.

in the early 1990s, the french put together a UN CBW treaty which the US signed (then unsigned under bush.) it was a sham from the start in that it allowed what it ridiculously called 'defensive CBW R&D' of which common sense tells us that there is no such thing.

in 1999, a news item from NASA about certain virus research aboard the space station caused a brief furor because it showed that the US was not abiding its own treaty against space-based weapons or virus research. reading the NASA piece, it mentioned that in the space station, it was possible to manipulate viruses in a no-gravity situation and that viruses could also be set outside the craft into virtually zero degrees kelvin. it mentioned that in this state, viruses go into incredibly organized and easy-to-alter order which can then be captured...

under bush, the space-based weapons ban treaty was also 'unsigned.' after 911, bush set up 18, count em, 18 new CBW R&D centers. whistleblowing scientists pointed out that though most of these were in secreted locations, a couple were in heavily urban situations, like oakland and just outside boston... also, that bush had put cowboy cronies of his who knew nothing at al about science in charge of these places!

so while the haha, 'alpha parents' rush their 'manchurian children' to docs for vaccines and make them wear mouth covers and gloves to school and grocery stores (no kidding, i've seen both mom and kids like this here in NYC)... with the world at level 4-5 CBW, one accident and you can kiss your ass goodbye. good to know our asses are in such profoundly capable hands. so who can worry much about swine flu in the midst of this?

just as the fact of scores of aged nuclear reactors and 20,000 nuclear weapons on earth ensures future chernobyls and other such 'accidents'... it is nearly inevitable that someday, someone carrying ebola or the like, is going to get on a jet leaving moscow for paris, then onto a meeting in heathrow before heading to la guardia in NYC and onto ohare and LAX.

by the time he disembarks in LA, moscow's done. by the next morning...

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Number 7 is By a Musician From My Home Town and Is a Song About America...
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Posted by: tony_opmoc on Sep 25, 2009 12:55 PM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Well actually he comes from Davyhulme which is nearer Urmston than Oldham.

For some obscure reason the Politicians said we all come from Greater Manchester

Morrisey comes in at Number 7

America is not the world

Tony

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The US Government is At Number 9 - The Quality Is Appalling
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Posted by: tony_opmoc on Sep 25, 2009 1:42 PM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
US Government

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Deja vu all over again
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Posted by: willymack on Sep 25, 2009 1:55 PM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Apologies to baseball great, philosopher, elocutionist, and Zen master, Yogi Berra.
I was in the Navy in 1976, when I was ordered to get a (swine) flu shot. Several of my Navy colleagues got pretty sick from the shot. All I got was a red spot which went away in a few days.
As now, the whole swine flu scare was a SCAM.

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American Woman - Did Even Worse Than The US Government and Is at Number 10
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Posted by: tony_opmoc on Sep 25, 2009 1:56 PM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Why The Hell Can't You Keep Your Boys in Order?

And American Woman is not even by an American Band

Canada gets yet another entry in the US Top 10

The Guess Who

AMERICAN WOMAN

Tony

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has there LATELY been a media hype?
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Posted by: launcher on Sep 25, 2009 2:11 PM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
> "With the media pumping out story after fevered story of a unique and "deadly" new strain of influenza"

Actually, of late just about every story I've read about the H1N1 virus has been that it will be widespread but WON'T be that serious. I'm surprised to see Mr. Holland worked up so much about it.

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BS
[Report this comment]
Posted by: sirios on Sep 25, 2009 4:25 PM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
even my father who is a seriously conservative retired MD says that the h1n1 scare is BS. more people die each year from complications with the "regular flu" than the swine flu. I personally think the hype is a conspiracy by the makers of tamiflu to rake in obscene profits.

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Rip It Up
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Posted by: tony_opmoc on Sep 25, 2009 6:23 PM   
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Rip It Up

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It's not panic, my good fellow, it's profits
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Posted by: dayahka on Sep 25, 2009 6:39 PM   
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The media and the WHO and CDC work hand-in-glove with their corporate masters, in this case the pharmaceutical companies, looking for a boost in sales and profits from their prime profit-centers, the gullible public. And what better way to make a big killing, er profit, than to have the WHO and CDC start a panic and then get flu shots, which are wholly untested and filled with all sorts of toxins, to be mandated. The WHO and CDC--and the media--need to be investigated for collusion: who was bribed, who was promised, who received, who owns stock in the pharma companies? But, of course, when the corporations own the government, you can bet your sweet lips no investigation will ever be done and this blatantly irregular and unwarranted scaremongering will just go on on on.

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Dr T
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Posted by: Dr T on Sep 25, 2009 7:31 PM   
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The swine flu isn't particularly virulent, however, it's a good test run to learn new behaviors for the future plagues.

The little things we learn to do to reduce transmission, e.g., washing our hands frequently, sneezing into our arm instead of hand, etc., will come in handy in the future.

The real plagues are coming - soon.

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The British Heavyweight Champion
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Posted by: tony_opmoc on Sep 25, 2009 8:35 PM   
Current rating: 1    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
I Never Get Violent When I'm Pissed...

I Just sometimes get a bit too affectionate and cuddly

None of the girls have ever complained

But I also do it to blokes as well - particularly if they are big and strong

And well I didn't know who he was. I'm not into boxing...

But he was the largest most powerful person I had ever seen

And I said - "Hello I am Tony" - and I shook his hand

"Can I have a cuddle?"

He said "Why do you want to cuddle me?"

"Go and cuddle a pretty little girl"

I said "I want to cuddle you"

"I just want to put my arms around you and hug you."

This incidentally was witnesed by a journalist friend of mine

He said almost immediately afterwards

"I can't believe you just did that"

I said "Are you jealous Johnny?"

He said "You have just hugged Gary Mason"

I said "Who's Gary Mason?"

From wiki..

"Pro Boxing Career

He fought 38 times as a professional in a career that spanned 10 years from 1984 to 1994, with 34 wins by knockout and only one loss, that being to Lennox Lewis when he challenged for the European title in 1991.

He suffered a detached retina in a bout with Everett Martin in 1990. After a short retirement he staged a comeback, which ended with a TKO loss to Lennox Lewis, which aggravated Mason's eye injury. He would come back once again, but after winning two fights in the U.S. he retired for good."

Gary Mason had turned up in our local pub to see the band

We all gave him a good time

Afterwards I Thought

WOW

I Have Personally Had a Cuddle With..and He Did Put His Arms Around Me Too

The British Heavyweight Champion

"Gary Mason (born December 15, 1962 in London, England, of Jamaican descent), is a retired British boxer who fought out of Chatham, Kent. He fought at heavyweight and became British heavyweight champion in 1989."

Tony

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H1N1 isnt scary...but the vaccines are!
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Posted by: brianct on Sep 26, 2009 1:49 AM   
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People have been terrorised by WHO doctors, govts and the pharmaceutical corporations that control them, into taking vaccines for an illness that is not that dangerous...Yet the vaccine Tamiflu has some very serious side effects, so serious, the US govt has granted legal immunity to the manufacturers:

immunity for swine flu makers


Meanwhile, here is a little of what the govt is trying to defend:

'UK report of neurological damage from vaccine

According to a confidential warning letter written on July 29, 2009, a copy of which was leaked to the British newspaper, Daily Mail, the UK Government’s Health Protection Agency head of Immunization Department, Prof. Elizabeth Miller, warned British neurologists that the swine flu vaccine, which was briefly used in a mass vaccination program in 1976 in the USA until it was abruptly withdrawn because of dangerous side effects, is linked to Guillain-Barre Syndrome (GBS), a potentially deadly and nerve crippling of the central nervous system. Guillain-Barre Syndrome attacks the lining of the nerves, causing paralysis and inability to breathe, and can be fatal. It can cause paralysis of the breathing muscles that can cause death by suffocation.

The warning letter of Prof. Miller states, “The vaccines used to combat an expected swine influenza pandemic in 1976 were shown to be associated with GBS and were withdrawn from use." The US Government was forced in the 1976 Swine Flu scandal to pay out millions of dollars in damages to victims of GBS who had received the vaccine.'

vaccine causes paralysis

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Katiii
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Posted by: Katiii on Sep 26, 2009 5:31 AM   
Current rating: 1    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Down here in New Zealand we experienced the first season of the swine flu. There are 4 million of us here, 17 died of swine flu. That's not exactly a pandemic and our government didn't take any drastic actions anywhere. It's all hype and money for the drug companies once more.

We were offered Tamiflu if we were prepared to pay $80 which is out of the reach of many in this country.

So don't let anyone scare you into taking a vaccine, unless you already have a heart or chest condition, you'll probably be okay.
cheers
Kathy

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Flu Vaccine Exposed by Dr. Mercola
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Posted by: CRaPWHiSPeReR on Sep 26, 2009 5:48 AM   
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For your discernment:

http://articles.mercola.com/sites/articles/archive /2009/09/26/Flu-Vaccine-Exposed.aspx

(be sure to attach the two segments of the URL, this site wouldn't allow to post in its entirety)

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Not that scary...really Joshua?...read on
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Posted by: blondesprite on Sep 26, 2009 6:37 AM   
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I am going on day five of having the flu. I don't know yet if it is swine flu or just the usual seasonal flu. Frankly, I could give a sh*t!
I crawled, into my doctor's office on Tuesday and the throat culture results are not in yet.
She gave me a big fat painful cortisone shot in my butt and a prescription for an antibiotic that is large as a
rifle bullet. The Co-pay on the antibiotic alone was $40.00!
I was running fever of 102.7 and had to sit there and listen to my doc chew my ass for not getting a flu shot. FYI: I was waiting for the swine flu vaccine (Oct 1) so I could kill two birds with one stone.
Trust me, you really do not want to take your chances of getting this..... read on.

I honestly thought I was going to die Thursday evening and ya know what? I truly didn't care! All my joints were on fire, my skin felt like it was rotting off my body and I could barely sip water without wanting to wretch.
My eyeballs felt like all of Crystal Beach had blown into them, I had chills so bad that I climbed into an extremely hot tub of water, with a fever, to make them stop.
I have coughed so much, it feels like my rib cage is fractured and it hurts to breathe. The yellow mucous coming out of my lungs is thick as chewing gum and nearly gags me every time I cough.
It hurts to lie down and it hurts to sit up. I feel completely physically wrung out and as weak as a dirty wet kitchen towel.
My head feels three feet thick and my nose is raw and very sore. I have gone through three very large boxes of tissue.
No matter how much I am able to drink, my throat and mouth feel like I swallowed a box of salt.
I get dizzy when standing and my ears ring or buzz constantly. My bed linens smell like rotting meat and my breath (no matter how many times I brush my teeth) smells worse.
I have taken so much pain reliever/fever reducers, I am now worried about my liver!

Not that scary Joshua, think again.

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» (Part II) Posted by: CRaPWHiSPeReR

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Young-ism
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Posted by: BST on Sep 26, 2009 11:42 AM   
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H1N1 captured media attention because it purportedly is most likely to harm young people.

Seasonal flu kills old folks, like me, a ravaging viewed without alarm by a self-indulgent, Botox'ed American society unfazed by the pruning of a populace that's seen as taking up room and resources.

It's not the illness, H1N1, that has the bigshots in a dither, it's the relative value of the identified victims.

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The real danger
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Posted by: BST on Sep 26, 2009 11:49 AM   
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The hype around flu and the convergence of seasonal flu, H1N1, pneumonia and common cold cases will tax emergency rooms to such an extent that people with true emergencies may find themselves languishing on hallways guerneys. This is a real travesty of the panic-mongering. It will hurt people, it may kill people -- by over-taxing medical resources so many patients with other afflictions do not get the attention and care they require. No one is talking about this "side effect."

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Never underestimate the ugliness of flu
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Posted by: BST on Sep 26, 2009 12:10 PM   
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Should you get a vaccine for flu? Only you can decide. But some frank talk about flu itself:

I am 65 on no meds and very healthy. In a lifetime I had never been ill until three years ago when I got the seasonal flu, then pneumonia on top -- and was out of commission for about 30 days. I would have laughed at anyone who told me this would be possible.

In years prior, I'd looked askance at people, including co-workers, who complained about the awful-ness of the flu, thinking to myself "Oh, just take some Tylenol and stay in bed and watch TV."

I was wrong, very very wrong. The flu with pneumonia was a terror of unimagined hell. That I could stay at home (I was then living alone)and not go into the ER was a miracle, a statement of stubbon-ness and resilience on my part and, perhaps, stupidity. I was so sick that on some days I barely cared what happened.

That year docs' offices were so overcrowded that I got seen by crawling out of my hell-pit, driving two miles to my doctor's office, waiting outside so as not to spread my germs around and finally after two such trips getting taken seriously enough for a chest X-ray. Voila...pneumonia. Then I was put on anti-biotics and finally lived.

I will get the seasonal flu shot. My age precludes me getting the H1N1 vaccine until everyone else does, so that decision has been taken from me for the time being. I'm concerned about both the shot and possible side effects since I'm a healthy gal overall and wanting to stay that way, and the illness.

But I'm no longer a skeptic on what flu can do. It can be really scary.

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Kaija
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Posted by: Kaija on Sep 26, 2009 12:16 PM   
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For detailed data about this "swine flu" see this recent linked text

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» RE: Kaija Posted by: Kaija

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Mededitor
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Posted by: Mededitor on Sep 26, 2009 2:09 PM   
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Holland demonstrates in this article a profoundly irresponsible use of facts twisted to appear other than what they are.

Is this writer a sociopath? He fits the classic definition of "not restrained by any sense of ethics; thinks rules do not apply to him".

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» RE: Mededitor Posted by: blondesprite

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Go to the CDC web site for the facts
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Posted by: blondesprite on Sep 26, 2009 5:31 PM   
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This is what Mr. Holland should have instructed every one do.
I suppose a medical problem is only potentially serious if it involves coitus interruptions, huh Josh?

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Specious projection
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Posted by: SBean on Sep 27, 2009 7:17 AM   
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Josh, it's not "the projected toll", it's YOUR projected toll. You made the assumption that the death rate would remain steady throughout the flu season. What I've read is that flu experts are concerned because many deaths have occurred from H1N1 BEFORE the flu season has begun and that they are concerned that it will accelerate through the season.

Reconsider that assumption and you might have a different story.

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critical perspective
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Posted by: pbutler on Sep 27, 2009 11:55 AM   
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Check out a response from an experienced (and progressively-minded) epidemiologist at More crappy flu journalism, this time Alternet [rant alert!].

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» RE: critical perspective Posted by: blondesprite
» RE: critical perspective Posted by: leafsong1

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NY nurses reject swine flu vaccine, could lose jobs
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Posted by: brianct on Sep 27, 2009 11:59 PM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
NY nurses reject being given the vaccine, but could be fired if they do. Medical dictators say vaccine is safe...even when it isnt.

nurses reject vaccine

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Eating Pigs
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Posted by: Geniepi on Sep 29, 2009 7:31 AM   
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Eating pigs is like eating dog. No one should do it.

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response article
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Posted by: Diggs on Sep 29, 2009 8:52 AM   
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If you haven't already read it, I recommend an article which responds to this one on counterpunch.org. Stephen Soldz writes Spreading Hysteria About Swine Flu "Hysteria".


http://counterpunch.com/soldz09292009.html

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Roadblocks, Refusals, and Whistleblowers
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Posted by: femtobeam on Oct 1, 2009 2:17 AM   
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Put these three together for a link to the whistleblower about roadblocks in California on Oct 15.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?

v=my1XJ_NlH4Q&annotation_id=

annotation_189971&feature=iv

This is from a Dr. on the fertility (or lack therof) associated with H1N1

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mbfUJrMQytI&feature=related

Nurses in New York refuse vaccines and lose their jobs.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?

v=A7wBwOEsw2I&feature=player_embedded



There are dangers associated with both the flu and the vaccines and there are plans for microchipping and embedded devices as well.

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impact of overpopulation
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Posted by: lukewatson on Oct 8, 2009 2:04 PM   
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With the impact of overpopulation on the Earth there are only four possible outcomes. The first, resources are running out and then there is a nuclear war over those resources that wipes out most of life on the planet. The second, we avoid a nuclear war but there is a famine were billions starve to death, and you know humans in their bid for survival will kill every living thing on the planet. Buy specialist The third is the plague I am praying for, and if that happens millions of other species will be saved from extinction, plus future generations will have a chance at a good life. Remember this, there would have never been a Rennisance without a Black Plague. Wishing for plague is just the lesser of three evils.

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hi
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Posted by: wallace530 on Oct 13, 2009 6:34 PM   
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