MEDIA AND CULTURE  
AlterNet / By Sue Wilson
comments_imageCOMMENTS: 200

Limbaugh's Lies Sabotage the Health Reform Debate

In conservative states, right-wing talk show hosts are spreading lies about reform. No wonder Blue Dog Dems are blocking health care overhaul.
July 25, 2009  |  
 
 
 
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There's a showdown at the House Energy and Commerce Committee corral. Seven Blue Dog Democrat members are banding together, and if they don't get their way, they can gun down the health care bill.

The Blue Dog Seven are spooked by pressure from their constituents and recent polls that show American's approval of Obama's health care initiative has dropped below 50 percent for the first time.

Drive across the seven states they represent: Arkansas, Georgia, Indiana, Louisiana, Ohio, Tennessee, and Utah, turn on your car radio, and you'll know why public opinion has changed. According to Pew research, 22 percent of Americans get their news from talk radio. And conservative talkers have been lying to their listeners about what's in the health care bill.

Lies from Sean Hannity like, "If you don't have private insurance the year that this bill is passed, you can't get that later on from your employer." Lies from Rush Limbaugh that the bill would "outlaw individual private coverage." Lies provided in talking points from the Republican National Committee like "Democrats are proposing a government controlled health insurance system, which will control care, treatments, medicines and even what doctors a patient may see."

Tell a lie often enough, and people will believe it.

And there is nobody there to call them on their lies. Nobody there to set the record straight. Nobody to push back against the propaganda that corporate radio promotes in its own political self interest. In the Blue Dog Seven states, just three stations broadcast any kind of progressive talk. Three progressive radio stations in seven entire states. But Sean Hannity "freely" prevaricates on dozens of radio stations; Rush Limbaugh deceives people on 98 in those seven states alone. 98 publicly owned frequencies where public debate comes second to selling ads for Snapple.

Special assistant to the President for Science, Technology, and Innovation Policy, Susan Crawford told Broadcasting and Cable magazine, "The administration understands the important role traditional terrestrial broadcasting continues to play."

Maybe they should be listening to FCC Commissioner Michael Copps, who says in Broadcast Blues, "If you're concerned about health care or you're concerned about the environment as your number one issue, fine, but a piece of advice from me, is you better make media reform your number two issue, because you won't get anywhere on number one without media reform."

Former Republican Senator Trent Lott had it right when he said Conservative Talk Radio is running the country. There needs to be a showdown, but it's the 1996 Telecommunications Act that should be gunned down.


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media reform, eh?
[Report this comment]
Posted by: slydad on Jul 25, 2009 12:24 AM   
Current rating: 1    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Don't you mean propaganda control?

You don't want people listening to what they want. You want to force liberal crap down their throat. There's a reason why there are only a few "progressive" (liberal) radio stations. Nobody wants to hear them.

Folks who think a little deeper than the knee-jerk touchy feely crowd want to hear something more substantive than the likes of Air America.

When you say "media reform", you mean you want to replace the First Amendment with something that forces people to listen to liberal probaganda.

[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]

» RE: media reform, eh? Posted by: Terrytom
» RE: media reform, eh? Posted by: cberkland
» Can't compete? Posted by: slydad
» RE: Can't compete? Posted by: Democritus
» Look again. Posted by: slydad
» RE: Can't compete? Posted by: particle
» As one might expect. Posted by: slydad
» RE: As one might expect. Posted by: cberkland
» RE: As one might expect. Posted by: JERSEYDAN
» RE: As one might expect. Posted by: particle
» LOL! Posted by: LeaderofMen
» RE: Can't compete? Posted by: JSquercia
» RE: Can't compete? Posted by: cberkland
» RE: Can't compete? Posted by: aussidawg
» RE: Can't compete? Posted by: Habaro
» RE: Can't compete? Posted by: Quannah
» To be quite honest Posted by: slydad
» RE: To be quite honest Posted by: Quannah
» I beg your pardon? Posted by: slydad
» I'll bite. Posted by: slydad
» RE: I'll bite. Posted by: cberkland
» Ok Mr smarty pants. Posted by: slydad
» strawman argument Posted by: leafsong1
» RE: Can't compete? Fairness is just that.. Posted by: wagnerrocks@gmail.com
» RE: media reform, eh? Posted by: jbro434
» RE: media reform, eh? Posted by: Lilly
» Liberal agenda Posted by: progressive-life
» RE: Liberal agenda Posted by: cberkland
» RE: Liberal agenda Posted by: progressive-life
» RE: Liberal agenda Posted by: Quannah
» RE: Liberal agenda...Say what? Posted by: wagnerrocks@gmail.com
» RE: Liberal agenda...Say what? Posted by: progressive-life
» RE: Liberal agenda...Say what? Posted by: cberkland
» OH, anti Socialist? Posted by: hardwroc
» RE: Mr. Pointy Head... tsk, tsk, tsk Posted by: progressive-life
» Laughable. Posted by: LeaderofMen
» Where's my check then? Posted by: slydad
» RE: Where's my check then? Posted by: cberkland
» Careful now Posted by: slydad
» RE: Laughable. Posted by: progressive-life
» BULLS**T ! Posted by: hardwroc
» Paid to Blog Posted by: LeaderofMen

Comments are closed-

THE FIRST AMEMDMENT IS SACROSANCT....
[Report this comment]
Posted by: drricklippin on Jul 25, 2009 3:27 AM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
.... until the press/media intentionally harms.Then they should be subject to lawsuits.

Also we need better laws that separate news from entertainment.

Limbaugh is entertainment. But so is Stewart and Colbert. Although Limbaugh does far greater harm to his listeners and the nation.

Dr. Rick Lippin
Southampton,Pa

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I have an idea
[Report this comment]
Posted by: TexasCowboy on Jul 25, 2009 3:47 AM   
Current rating: 4    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
How to pay for 37,692 Americans health insurance for one year:
Limbaugh's $400 million dollar salary
Hannity's $100 million dollar salary
Approximate health insurance costs a family of 4 about $13,000 in 2009
These guys would still have a few million left over.
So these obstructionists and liars should put their money where their mouths are and support American families. We know these hahoos will do the right thing and put people over their right-wing politics.
linked text
And if we take the $80 million given by health insurance to Dems we could add coverage for another 6,000 plus.
Of course that still leaves almost 47 million Americans without health insurance.

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» That's typical Posted by: slydad
» RE: That's typical Posted by: etvaugha@mtu.edu
» RE: That's typical Posted by: cberkland
» RE: That's typical Posted by: aussidawg
» RE: That's typical Posted by: Quannah
» RE: That's typical Posted by: JERSEYDAN

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I'm Starting To Think That Rush is really President
[Report this comment]
Posted by: SeattlePackedSnowandCollidedCars on Jul 25, 2009 4:41 AM   
Current rating: 2    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
The Dems have 60 votes but... but... but we blame straw men? Rush is a radio show host at the end of the day however Reid, Pelosi, Obama are the ones whom can steer this ship anywhere its wants to go.

how are you liking the fact that the Alternative Media (me and other blogs) are the ones affecting this becuase it damm sure is not the M$N... please get at me.

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Elite CEO run our media and country
[Report this comment]
Posted by: cberkland on Jul 25, 2009 5:05 AM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Corporations, or more precisely their top executives, run the media in our country through their advertising dollars. Fox News, Rush Limbaugh, Glenn Beck, are paid to push conservative policy that benefits them personally. Combine that with lobbyist who bribe our elected officials, and there you have it. The ignorant like the first post on this article don't see they are being taken for fools because that is what they are. Progressive radio has been shut down by corporations who refuse to advertise on anything that might open the public's eyes, not because nobody wants to listen to it.

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» You Must TIVO thru the ads Posted by: SeattlePackedSnowandCollidedCars
» RE: You Must TIVO thru the ads Posted by: cberkland
» I'm The One That is Destorying Heathcare (On The Street) Posted by: SeattlePackedSnowandCollidedCars
» You are correct. Posted by: slydad
» RE: You are correct. Posted by: Pax1
» RE: You are correct. Posted by: Quannah
» RE: You are correct. Posted by: cberkland
» RE: You are correct. Posted by: Quannah
» RE: You are correct. Posted by: JERSEYDAN

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Caesar777
[Report this comment]
Posted by: Caesar77 on Jul 25, 2009 5:39 AM   
Current rating: 4    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
22% of Americans get their news from Talk radio. Wow!
That's an insult to the American intelligence. Hell, if 2% got their news from Talk radio that would be embarrassing.
Why, oh why, do people listen to these assholes, and their bullshit.
We Americans should keep a low profile when we go overseas. We're the laughingstock of the world.
It's no surprise that a moron like George W. Bush, could become the President of this, once great country.
Good God America, wake up.

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Manufactured Consent
[Report this comment]
Posted by: weightman on Jul 25, 2009 6:07 AM   
Current rating: 4    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
"Propaganda is to democracy what violence is to totalitarianism. The techniques have been honed to a high art, far beyond anything that Orwell dreamt of. The device of feigned dissent, incorporating the doctrines of the state religion and eliminating rational critical discussion, is one of the more subtle, though more crude techniques are also widely used and are highly effective in protecting us from seeing what we observe, from knowledge and understanding of the world in which we live."
Noam Chomsky, The Manufacture of Consent 1984

What is routinely ignored by both sides of the nonsensical debate on alleged "healthcare reform," is that everyone involved in formulating "healthcare reform," from the President to Baucus and on down through committee members, is in the pocket of the healthcare industry.
The state religion tells us we need healthcare reform now to save the economy, to save mall businesses, to get children suffering catastrophic disease much needed treatment, to lower costs, improve access, and to support the President.
The feigned dissent concentrates on emotional hot-button issues rooted in politicized racial prejudice, fears of a disappearing middle class, loss of liberty, and out-of-control federal government.
Both sides designed for one purpose. To keep us from realizing the only group benefitting from "healthcare reform," as presently proposed by either side, will be the healthcare industry.

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BARRY & DEM HEALTH PLAN DESTROYS HEALTH
[Report this comment]
Posted by: George DeCarlo on Jul 25, 2009 6:37 AM   
Current rating: 2    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Yes, Barry and the Dems will prohibit alternative & traditional health modalities.

Barry and the Dems will fine via federal tax returns those who do not want the health plan due to lack of freedom.

Barry had Big Pharma and HMO execs to the White House.

Watchdog Group Sues for Disclosure of White House Meetings with Healthcare Execs
Democracy Now exposes truth

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I just drove cross country across these states,
[Report this comment]
Posted by: Ellie1 on Jul 25, 2009 6:58 AM   
Current rating: 4    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
and they are full of ignorant conservative a-holes. I am so glad I do not live in a red state, although my next door neighbors (conservative Catholics) are bad enough.

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» Not so fast... Posted by: weightman

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Open your mind
[Report this comment]
Posted by: Democritus on Jul 25, 2009 7:04 AM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
If you listened to Air America it would counter the lies heard on regressive talk radio. The latter is sponsored by the large corporations that have an interest in keeping you ignorant so they can continue to turn a profit.

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rgd
[Report this comment]
Posted by: rgd on Jul 25, 2009 7:58 AM   
Current rating: 2    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Here go the bed-wetting, thumb-sucking progressives again. Just because someone disagrees with you on a particular issue, they get called all sorts of names. Where is your tolerance? Limbaugh has alwaws stated HIS OPINIONS and nothing else. He is entitled to them just as you are. So get over it! I don't agree with Rush, so I don't listen to him. It's that simple.
Did it ever occur to anyone at Alternet that the opposition in the healthcare plan might be because it is a lousy plan and won't work? Maybe there are things in it we don't know or is it just that the sound of it makes us feel good. Get a Life.

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» RE: rgd Posted by: JSquercia
» RE: rgd Posted by: rgd
» RE: rgd Posted by: Lilly
» RE: rgd Posted by: mramell50

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Poor Americans!
[Report this comment]
Posted by: KitKat on Jul 25, 2009 10:10 AM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
People dying because they cannot afford treatment...Going bankrupt because they cannot afford treatment...Staying at jobs they hate because they cannot afford to lose their "coverage". Pffft.

No one in Canada dies because they cannot afford treatment.
No one goes bankrupt because they cannot afford treatment.
No one stays at a terrible job because of fear they may lose their health coverage.

But America will never have an equitable system. There are too many "Rush Limbahs" and too few who care about one another.

In Canada, we gladly pay taxes so that ALL people can have decent lives. In America each of you are so incredibly selfish that you don't care if people die for lack of money.

It's all about money in the USA. How sad. But it will never change. You all know this. Give up and move to a country that cares about the human rights of the individual.

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» RE: Poor Americans! Posted by: Lilly

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stareagle
[Report this comment]
Posted by: maraschino tim on Jul 25, 2009 1:45 PM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
First of all, this is not a freedom of speech issue. It is a truth issue. We must understand that Rush Limbaugh exercising his freedom to speak his opinions freely is one thing. Rush Limbaugh habitually spreading monumentally false information on an unprecedented scale is quite another thing.

Our courts understand that there are limits to freedom of speech. For example, if a witness bears false witness on the stand under oath in a court of law it is considered perjury and is punishable by imprisonment. A witness does not have the right to lie. Why do the Rush Limbaughs of the world have the right to lie to the public?

Inexplicably, if Rush Limbaugh or Bill O’Reilly or any other misleading, lying, mendacious, irrevocably corrupt media kingpin repeatedly misrepresents reality, perjures the truth or egregiously falsifies information on a scale unprecedented in the civilized world, what do we do as a society? We say,“They have freedom of speech,” as we shrug helplessly away. “Nothing we can do but tell our side of the story.”

At a minimum, serial perpetrators of egregious public deceit need to have their nimble little naturally-selected feet held to the proverbial fire until they relent. They—like all Americans—should be encouraged to exercise their freedom speech all they want.
But they must and will be held accountable for offenses that fall generally under the heading of what I would call “public perjury.” This term speaks for itself—those public individuals and institutions who participate in spreading rampant lies and falsehoods which thereby betray the public trust will be prosecuted and punished.

The public cannot forever tolerate a colossal betrayal by the media of the public trust, particularly when such offenses involve the gross distortion of legally ascertained facts and demonstrable evidentiary truth. Stiff fines, jail time, and removal of license to broadcast should be some of the discretionary punishments that courts could level against perpetrators of these crimes.

The best weapon against the Limbaughs of the world is the truth and the laws that uphold the truth. It is patently clear that the Limbaughs of the world are determined not to let the truth get in the way of their ideology, financial fortune and unfettered media power. A society such as ours that is based on Constitutional freedoms deserves and requires better media ethics and enforcement of public perjury offenses.

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Limbaugh or none, the Blue Dogs will join the GOP in selling us out.
[Report this comment]
Posted by: JenniferBedingfield on Jul 25, 2009 2:11 PM   
Current rating: 4    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
There are long term remedies to all of this silliness. First, if you don't like Limbaugh don't listen to him. Second, we need to spend more time learning to be real progressives instead of Obamabots or shall I say party shills. Learn to vote on the issues instead of on the party and see who you can put into office that will be on your side for a change. Limbaugh is one rightwing creep. Let's get past him and quit worrying about what he'll say next. He's too predictable anyway. The Democrats, liberal or blue dogs, are selling out because of Limbaugh. They're selling out because they refuse to break out of being tied to money and material of those big monied lobbyists.

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Faux News and its false prophets are heading for a fall.
[Report this comment]
Posted by: MEL810 on Jul 25, 2009 2:44 PM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
I recently heard, from a very reliable source, that FOX Broadcasting is headed for bankruptcy late this year or early next. They are already cutting employees salaries, laying people off, cutting down the a/c, the lights, etc..

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» Why don't you list your "reliable source"? Posted by: etvaugha@mtu.edu
» Hallejujah if it is true Posted by: Hiroak
» RE: Hallejujah if it is true Posted by: etvaugha@mtu.edu
» RE: Hallejujah if it is true Posted by: cberkland
» RE: Hallejujah if it is true Posted by: Lex Thomas

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I love how this is called "health care reform"
[Report this comment]
Posted by: etvaugha@mtu.edu on Jul 25, 2009 4:30 PM   
Current rating: 1    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
This bill is simple: take money from the rich, borrow money from China, and print more money in order to pay for care at current prices within the current system for those without health care. The system itself remains the same. There is no reform, only a new oppressive tax on the group of people who create jobs in the USA, an inflationry burden and punishment on those who save money, and a massive debt placed on all our young Americans. What I've said above is the truth, not some conservative propaganda. And it's why the majority of Americans and politicians view this "reform" as a disaster. Whenever a wild liberal idea is shot down by the majority, Alternet blames conservative "mind control" rather than the rediculousness of the idea itself.

Real health care reform would involve new regulation to lower health care costs within the current system. Several ways of doing this would be legislation that requires more price transparency on the part of medical providers, and severe caps on medical malpractice suits. Those are two reasons why health care costs 10 cents on the dollar in India. But liberals will never implement those two items. It would mean less money for doctors and lawyers, which Obamabots are in the tank for. Reason being doctors and lawyers provide a great deal of funding for Dems.

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» agree and disagree Posted by: Drclaw
» RE: agree and disagree Posted by: Quannah
» RE: agree and disagree Posted by: Drclaw
» RE: agree and disagree Posted by: Quannah
» RE: agree and disagree Posted by: etvaugha@mtu.edu

Comments are closed-

war disease"tOO big to fail (BooM)
[Report this comment]
Posted by: wolvedrive on Jul 25, 2009 6:22 PM   
Current rating: 2    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
a sick form of grafft,cannilbolism has intellagently evolved it's design into.i'm sure if ya watch vermin and swine close enough,thairs a system to their madness of self promotion and identity redemption within the "social structures involved,,,the brood,the republic,a single celled organisim about the size of a pre-historic dust mite,as it currently sits,OO-ha,ha,,,maybe the other half of the chemically based symbiotic relationship is in short soon to follow(aka the democrates)also legally identified as,,,thats' right you guessed it)capitolist(,according the outlook(cdc)40% are scheduled to,,,"clear the books sometyme this coming season of harvest,,,probably not all US players though mostly #-1 children and the infirm,,,makes less noise that way,genius don't ya think,well do ya punks,OO.Swine Flu,or as the lobby within an entity of a host prefers to refer it,swine before pearls,ya know what i'm scripting/talking about,not to mention any ID'z"

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"Entertainment" that kills.
[Report this comment]
Posted by: KeepsonTickn on Jul 25, 2009 7:19 PM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Limbaugh and Hannity and the rest of the Republican leadership are telling lies that will literally kill people. Anyone who believes that their "entertainment" which saturates talk radio and their talking points that are passed on and never refuted by main stream media toadies. Does anyone really believe that Bush would have lost by such a small margin that he could steal the election without free 3 hours a day political ads?

We should break up the media monopolies like Fox that happily lose money on their stations to block progressive talk and eventually to cash in on bad policy.

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» RE: "Entertainment" that kills. Posted by: etvaugha@mtu.edu

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Obama wants to make private insurance illegal
[Report this comment]
Posted by: MotherLodeBeth on Jul 25, 2009 8:09 PM   
Current rating: 1    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
There are a number of videos of Obama folks speaking to private groups that are now being shown on news sites where we are told that the goal is to drive private insurance companies out of business.

Sorry, but as an American I cannot find anything in the Constitution, Bill of Rights etc where we are told that Government is supposed to provide the life liberty and pursuit of happiness. Where did the founding father say that the government will take care of us? Many people like the Amish have no desire to use ANY government service, which brings up the religious freedom protections. Will people who are religious be forced to have government coverage? Remember Obama operatives have been up front in saying they want to drive private insurance out of business.

And what about the millions who can afford private insurance but don't buy it now? And what about the person who could buy insurance but spends the money on the newest high tech toys, vacations, eating out and other things? If someone can afford it but refuses to buy the insurance what happened to personal freedom? The same liberals who scream personal freedom for themselves want to force choices on others?

And with baby boomers becoming the fastest growing group with Social Security and Medicare you better believe that any government program will deny coverage for certain care simply because Medicare is going broke and with Medicare being brought under the umbrella of national healthcare
we cannot afford it all.

In fact Dr. Eziekel Emannuel the brother of the Presidents Chief of staff, and a medical advisor to President Obama has written a great deal about limiting care to older people. If its YOU or your parent do you want them to die rather than get care?

We need LESS government not more!!!

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» RE: So, do you want to live forever? Posted by: etvaugha@mtu.edu

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A View of the Right
[Report this comment]
Posted by: Lilly on Jul 25, 2009 8:10 PM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Samples from townhall.com, which I read on a daily basis: Obamacare will require doctors to perform abortions; it will mandate euthanasia, with "death counseling" required every five years; it will definitely force 100% of the population into government clinics where they will have no choice of doctor; private doctors and private insurance will be outlawed; waits for treatment will be a year or two; certain drugs and vaccinations will be compulsory; abortion for eugenic purposes will be required; treatment will be withheld from the elderly for the purpose of saving money; the untreated elderly will be sent to gulags which are already under construction, and many similar stories. And people are believing this stuff as if it were the Holy Gospel.

Also repeated hourly are the statements that "socialized medicine has failed everywhere it has been tried", "people in countries with government health care all hate it", and "we have the best medical care in the world". Last week a poster in Norway tried to explain that his country's program works well, but other posters just attacked both him and Norway using rude language.

I wish the media would finally grow some balls and do a big huge expose of this use of distortions and outright lies to try and derail health care reform. And I don't think that the Obama administration has been doing NEARLY enough to counter the right-wing on this, or to EDUCATE the public. There is an unbelievable amount of hysteria out there.

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» RE: A View of the Right Posted by: cberkland
» RE: A View of the Right Posted by: Drclaw
» RE: A View of the Right Posted by: Morell
» RE: A View of the Right Posted by: Lloydmillerus

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I hope
[Report this comment]
Posted by: wormfarmer on Jul 25, 2009 8:14 PM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
single payer gets seriously considered.

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» RE: I hope Posted by: JenniferBedingfield
» RE: I hope Posted by: Quannah

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OR... [Anybody read this yet?]
[Report this comment]
Posted by: photon's feather on Jul 26, 2009 1:42 PM   
Current rating: 4    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
David Sirota says it's not because of Blue Dogs' constituents. Once again, it comes down to money.

The Three Armies Occupying D.C.:
Land Rover Liberals, Corrupt Cowboys and the Millionaire Media - [Open Left]

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two right wings + progressives shoot themselves in the feet
[Report this comment]
Posted by: bfh369 on Jul 26, 2009 4:16 PM   
Current rating: 4    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
And, what is never mentioned is that where there are progressive stations in
grass roots right regions the progressives spend too much of their time
deriding the right - all the right, the corporate media and the unsuspecting
grass roots right whom the corporate right must brainwash for support. What
is sorely needed, I have felt for years, and people like Thom Hartman and Ed
Schultz are leaning in that direction, is for progressives to address the
grass roots right from an empathetic or friendly perspective and begin to
develop common ground so that the grass roots right can begin to understand
that they have been brainwashed, lied to and exploited in every way possible
by their leaders - the Republican Party and Corporate America. I call it
right wing incest because the corporate right rapes the grass roots right
from birth to the grave.

Brian

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Limbaugh, what an interesting Primate indeed!
[Report this comment]
Posted by: talkville on Jul 26, 2009 6:59 PM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
A certain school of thought prefers to consider Man a more elevated form of animality, which in many respects is perfectly defensible and reasonable.

But Limbaugh goes much, much further: he also aligns himself with those who would champion such animality to the extent of considering himself nothing more than a very clever member of that Club.
Rather than seek to be a Man and develop his human characteristics, he prefers to imitate that observed class of primates, the chimpanzees.
He thus dons a suit-and-tie and takes to the microphone as the Spokesman for the Sophisticated Chimpanzees and as a champion of their Right to Rule and organize our social relations--based directly on the astute and observant study of all those still existing tribes or actual chimpanzees still found in the wild.

And he sure earns a whole lot of bananas for his efforts!

Alas for him, our more human societies have long gotten the upper hand, although not to the extent that many of us may think -- it's still very much up in the air as to who will prevail!

Keep an eye out for these sophisticated imitators of the natural world; their capacity to learn and develop and use very complex equipment and to remember just those things they need for their purposes is quite strong. The only difference is that they imitate and mimic and never think for themselves.

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Palin and Limbaugh are there to frighten and entertain you!
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Posted by: Lex Thomas on Jul 26, 2009 9:20 PM   
Current rating: 3    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Their function is to forever distract you from critical examination of Obama and this Democratic Congress, owned and paid for by the ruling corporate elite, is dedicated to looting and destroying the people of this country and the planet.

Never discussed in the corporate media, are the consequences of the collapse of capitalism. Never discussed is the destruction of public education, public health, "living wage" jobs, etc. that we all need to survive. These are all being destroyed by the hundreds of billions looting the economy for unending phoney wars on "terrorism". And now the trillions to Wall Street, banks, a bottomless "black hole" of unaccounted looting.

This run-amok gangster capitalism has collapsed. Capitalism cannot be "reformed" or "bailed out in any way that will restore economic health to working people and to society. Don't you ever wonder why Rupert Murdoch supported Obama?

The complete bankruptcy of "progressive" politics is now painfully evident. With the election of Obama and complete Democratic Party control of Congress. we have a continuation of all the Bush-Cheney wars, corrupt conomic looting of the economy, increasing unemployment and impoverishment of millions, continued destruction of the global environment, etc.

To de-program "progrssive" indoctrination, try reading the World Socialist Web-Site daily, at http://www.wsws.org.

Socialist perspectives on current affairs, published six days a week, for over ten years.

Go to WSWS home page for a FREE email subscription!

(Some current stories:)

Obama escalates assault on public education
http://www.wsws.org/articles/2009/jul2009/educ-j25.shtml

Following example of Bush-Cheney
Obama administration bars torture investigators from Guantánamo Bay
http://www.wsws.org/articles/2009/jul2009/guan-j25.shtml

As jobless claims rise, Wall Street celebrates corporate profit reports
http://www.wsws.org/articles/2009/jul2009/econ-j24.shtml

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BALONEY PREMISE
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Posted by: reelman on Jul 27, 2009 11:56 AM   
Current rating: 2    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Did Bush cry for 8 years about moveon and airhead america? NO. Liberals (aka secular socialists) are the biggest sissies. Don't listen to RL and tell you friends not to...its an option. Good grief.

What is so sick is that liberals pretend to be big Free Speechers but they lie.
Sell your secular socialism as the way to go...ohhh, that is too tough? Maybe that tells you something.
Bigger gov-meant, higher taxes and secular values (like abortion/homo marriage) are your thing...so sell them for a change...tell us why the opposite is wrong.
Factless assertions are the liberal stock and trade...rant on but never tell us why secular socialism is best or show us a mdoel country where it works.

I am not fooled...57 million plus were not fooled in the last election. When all federal workers and congress are NOT mandated into any future public plan but hold tight to their private sweetheart plan...that should tell even dimwit liberals something.

The fact canadians and others with national health care come here for life-changing surgeries should tell liberals something.

How about reforming tort law about medical suits?
How about reforming insurance so a whole state or 2 or 3 can form a network if they CHOOSE?

How about an unpaid Nat. Commission (like the Grace one in the 1980s) to find free or nearly free medical reforms?

How about NOT lying about Repubs? They offered 38 House amendments and all lost...one was that fed workers/congress be included?

Limbaugh makes no laws and imposes no taxes...the democrats have all the votes...so sit down and shut up...liberals take ALL the responsibility now...stop the blame shifting baloney.

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How About Quoting Legislation to Prove Rush/Hannity Wrong?
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Posted by: Lloydmillerus on Jul 28, 2009 5:01 AM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Rush and Hannity dig into the health care bills, quote provisions and draw their conclusions that the baby boomers are being set-up for DENIAL of care as they age!

The author of this article, on the other hand, JUST BELIEVES THE SIMPLE-MINDED promises of Democrat Party Leaders who let special interest write the health care bill AND BRAG ABOUT NOT READING IT!!!

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SOME O-CARE PROBS
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Posted by: reelman on Jul 28, 2009 3:41 PM   
Current rating: 3    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
JUST SOME PROBLEMS WITH OBAMA-CARE

Obama is a known serial liar.
The country is broke.
The democrat leaders have purposefully kept details from voters.

The premises are false and nutty.
Congress is not included in the Plan.
Federal workers are included in the Plan.

There is no tort reform.
Medicare and Medicaide are broke under the gov-meant.
The more we know the more resistance grows.

It grows the gov-meant.
It will fund abortion and mercy-killing…eventually.
It will bankrupt insurance companies because the gov-meant needs no profit.

Its not online and kept there a week before any votes.
There is no portability…as far as we know.
There is no provision for much larger networks, like a state or two…to lower costs.

There are too many mini-czars forced upon voters and doctors.
It is not patient-centered but cost-centered.
It will slash medical incomes.

The gov-meant cannot run a hot dog stand.
The gov-meant lied (to sell us) many past programs…that quickly cost 3-9x what they told us
The taxes on top of 4x the national debt we now have will crush any recovery.

The usual control freak suspects that love socialism salivate at this bill.
The potential for patient abuse is off the scale.

http://conservablogs.com/theconservativecrawfish

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O-CARE PROMISES
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Posted by: reelman on Jul 29, 2009 11:54 AM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
WHAT O-CARE PROMISES

“It’s time to fix our unsustainable insurance system and create a new foundation for health care security. That means guaranteeing your health care security and stability with eight basic consumer protections:

* No discrimination for pre-existing conditions
* No exorbitant out-of-pocket expenses, deductibles or co-pays
* No cost-sharing for preventive care
* No dropping of coverage if you become seriously ill
* No gender discrimination
* No annual or lifetime caps on coverage
* Extended coverage for young adults
* Guaranteed insurance renewal so long as premiums are paid ”

CRAWFISH NOTE: This is the e mail sales pitch from President Barack Obama …these are lies, there is no free lunch, the gov-meant is already broke…of course…congress and federal workers are not mandated into this dream program RUN by the gov-meant.
The gov-meant that has Medicare-Medicaide broke along with Social Security and the Postal Surface on the brink. That gov-meant.

As usual, we conservatives and thinkers have been warning you all summer 2009. Also, as usual, the national democrats (aka secular socialists) can provide no model country for socialized medicine and completely ignore reality, freedom and common sense.

This post will be re-posted a few times in the future as this awful abomination starts impacting YOU.
That will be before the 2010 elections when democrats will pay dearly for this kooky assault on our culture of freedom.

http://conservablogs.com/theconservativecrawfish

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BASOQIO
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Posted by: itouch backup on Jul 29, 2009 7:51 PM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]

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If Canadian healthcare is better...
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Posted by: mfranklin on Jul 30, 2009 2:01 PM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Why is it that the average disease infected American lives 10 years longer than the same
canadian?

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Alternet Comments:

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media reform, eh?
[Report this comment]
Posted by: slydad on Jul 25, 2009 12:24 AM   
Current rating: 1    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Don't you mean propaganda control?

You don't want people listening to what they want. You want to force liberal crap down their throat. There's a reason why there are only a few "progressive" (liberal) radio stations. Nobody wants to hear them.

Folks who think a little deeper than the knee-jerk touchy feely crowd want to hear something more substantive than the likes of Air America.

When you say "media reform", you mean you want to replace the First Amendment with something that forces people to listen to liberal probaganda.

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» RE: media reform, eh? Posted by: Terrytom
» RE: media reform, eh? Posted by: cberkland
» Can't compete? Posted by: slydad
» RE: Can't compete? Posted by: Democritus
» Look again. Posted by: slydad
» RE: Can't compete? Posted by: particle
» As one might expect. Posted by: slydad
» RE: As one might expect. Posted by: cberkland
» RE: As one might expect. Posted by: JERSEYDAN
» RE: As one might expect. Posted by: particle
» LOL! Posted by: LeaderofMen
» RE: Can't compete? Posted by: JSquercia
» RE: Can't compete? Posted by: cberkland
» RE: Can't compete? Posted by: aussidawg
» RE: Can't compete? Posted by: Habaro
» RE: Can't compete? Posted by: Quannah
» To be quite honest Posted by: slydad
» RE: To be quite honest Posted by: Quannah
» I beg your pardon? Posted by: slydad
» I'll bite. Posted by: slydad
» RE: I'll bite. Posted by: cberkland
» Ok Mr smarty pants. Posted by: slydad
» strawman argument Posted by: leafsong1
» RE: Can't compete? Fairness is just that.. Posted by: wagnerrocks@gmail.com
» RE: media reform, eh? Posted by: jbro434
» RE: media reform, eh? Posted by: Lilly
» Liberal agenda Posted by: progressive-life
» RE: Liberal agenda Posted by: cberkland
» RE: Liberal agenda Posted by: progressive-life
» RE: Liberal agenda Posted by: Quannah
» RE: Liberal agenda...Say what? Posted by: wagnerrocks@gmail.com
» RE: Liberal agenda...Say what? Posted by: progressive-life
» RE: Liberal agenda...Say what? Posted by: cberkland
» OH, anti Socialist? Posted by: hardwroc
» RE: Mr. Pointy Head... tsk, tsk, tsk Posted by: progressive-life
» Laughable. Posted by: LeaderofMen
» Where's my check then? Posted by: slydad
» RE: Where's my check then? Posted by: cberkland
» Careful now Posted by: slydad
» RE: Laughable. Posted by: progressive-life
» BULLS**T ! Posted by: hardwroc
» Paid to Blog Posted by: LeaderofMen

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THE FIRST AMEMDMENT IS SACROSANCT....
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Posted by: drricklippin on Jul 25, 2009 3:27 AM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
.... until the press/media intentionally harms.Then they should be subject to lawsuits.

Also we need better laws that separate news from entertainment.

Limbaugh is entertainment. But so is Stewart and Colbert. Although Limbaugh does far greater harm to his listeners and the nation.

Dr. Rick Lippin
Southampton,Pa

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I have an idea
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Posted by: TexasCowboy on Jul 25, 2009 3:47 AM   
Current rating: 4    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
How to pay for 37,692 Americans health insurance for one year:
Limbaugh's $400 million dollar salary
Hannity's $100 million dollar salary
Approximate health insurance costs a family of 4 about $13,000 in 2009
These guys would still have a few million left over.
So these obstructionists and liars should put their money where their mouths are and support American families. We know these hahoos will do the right thing and put people over their right-wing politics.
linked text
And if we take the $80 million given by health insurance to Dems we could add coverage for another 6,000 plus.
Of course that still leaves almost 47 million Americans without health insurance.

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» That's typical Posted by: slydad
» RE: That's typical Posted by: etvaugha@mtu.edu
» RE: That's typical Posted by: cberkland
» RE: That's typical Posted by: aussidawg
» RE: That's typical Posted by: Quannah
» RE: That's typical Posted by: JERSEYDAN

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I'm Starting To Think That Rush is really President
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Posted by: SeattlePackedSnowandCollidedCars on Jul 25, 2009 4:41 AM   
Current rating: 2    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
The Dems have 60 votes but... but... but we blame straw men? Rush is a radio show host at the end of the day however Reid, Pelosi, Obama are the ones whom can steer this ship anywhere its wants to go.

how are you liking the fact that the Alternative Media (me and other blogs) are the ones affecting this becuase it damm sure is not the M$N... please get at me.

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Elite CEO run our media and country
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Posted by: cberkland on Jul 25, 2009 5:05 AM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Corporations, or more precisely their top executives, run the media in our country through their advertising dollars. Fox News, Rush Limbaugh, Glenn Beck, are paid to push conservative policy that benefits them personally. Combine that with lobbyist who bribe our elected officials, and there you have it. The ignorant like the first post on this article don't see they are being taken for fools because that is what they are. Progressive radio has been shut down by corporations who refuse to advertise on anything that might open the public's eyes, not because nobody wants to listen to it.

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» You Must TIVO thru the ads Posted by: SeattlePackedSnowandCollidedCars
» RE: You Must TIVO thru the ads Posted by: cberkland
» I'm The One That is Destorying Heathcare (On The Street) Posted by: SeattlePackedSnowandCollidedCars
» You are correct. Posted by: slydad
» RE: You are correct. Posted by: Pax1
» RE: You are correct. Posted by: Quannah
» RE: You are correct. Posted by: cberkland
» RE: You are correct. Posted by: Quannah
» RE: You are correct. Posted by: JERSEYDAN

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Caesar777
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Posted by: Caesar77 on Jul 25, 2009 5:39 AM   
Current rating: 4    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
22% of Americans get their news from Talk radio. Wow!
That's an insult to the American intelligence. Hell, if 2% got their news from Talk radio that would be embarrassing.
Why, oh why, do people listen to these assholes, and their bullshit.
We Americans should keep a low profile when we go overseas. We're the laughingstock of the world.
It's no surprise that a moron like George W. Bush, could become the President of this, once great country.
Good God America, wake up.

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Manufactured Consent
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Posted by: weightman on Jul 25, 2009 6:07 AM   
Current rating: 4    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
"Propaganda is to democracy what violence is to totalitarianism. The techniques have been honed to a high art, far beyond anything that Orwell dreamt of. The device of feigned dissent, incorporating the doctrines of the state religion and eliminating rational critical discussion, is one of the more subtle, though more crude techniques are also widely used and are highly effective in protecting us from seeing what we observe, from knowledge and understanding of the world in which we live."
Noam Chomsky, The Manufacture of Consent 1984

What is routinely ignored by both sides of the nonsensical debate on alleged "healthcare reform," is that everyone involved in formulating "healthcare reform," from the President to Baucus and on down through committee members, is in the pocket of the healthcare industry.
The state religion tells us we need healthcare reform now to save the economy, to save mall businesses, to get children suffering catastrophic disease much needed treatment, to lower costs, improve access, and to support the President.
The feigned dissent concentrates on emotional hot-button issues rooted in politicized racial prejudice, fears of a disappearing middle class, loss of liberty, and out-of-control federal government.
Both sides designed for one purpose. To keep us from realizing the only group benefitting from "healthcare reform," as presently proposed by either side, will be the healthcare industry.

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BARRY & DEM HEALTH PLAN DESTROYS HEALTH
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Posted by: George DeCarlo on Jul 25, 2009 6:37 AM   
Current rating: 2    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Yes, Barry and the Dems will prohibit alternative & traditional health modalities.

Barry and the Dems will fine via federal tax returns those who do not want the health plan due to lack of freedom.

Barry had Big Pharma and HMO execs to the White House.

Watchdog Group Sues for Disclosure of White House Meetings with Healthcare Execs
Democracy Now exposes truth

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I just drove cross country across these states,
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Posted by: Ellie1 on Jul 25, 2009 6:58 AM   
Current rating: 4    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
and they are full of ignorant conservative a-holes. I am so glad I do not live in a red state, although my next door neighbors (conservative Catholics) are bad enough.

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» Not so fast... Posted by: weightman

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Open your mind
[Report this comment]
Posted by: Democritus on Jul 25, 2009 7:04 AM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
If you listened to Air America it would counter the lies heard on regressive talk radio. The latter is sponsored by the large corporations that have an interest in keeping you ignorant so they can continue to turn a profit.

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rgd
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Posted by: rgd on Jul 25, 2009 7:58 AM   
Current rating: 2    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Here go the bed-wetting, thumb-sucking progressives again. Just because someone disagrees with you on a particular issue, they get called all sorts of names. Where is your tolerance? Limbaugh has alwaws stated HIS OPINIONS and nothing else. He is entitled to them just as you are. So get over it! I don't agree with Rush, so I don't listen to him. It's that simple.
Did it ever occur to anyone at Alternet that the opposition in the healthcare plan might be because it is a lousy plan and won't work? Maybe there are things in it we don't know or is it just that the sound of it makes us feel good. Get a Life.

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» RE: rgd Posted by: JSquercia
» RE: rgd Posted by: rgd
» RE: rgd Posted by: Lilly
» RE: rgd Posted by: mramell50

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Poor Americans!
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Posted by: KitKat on Jul 25, 2009 10:10 AM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
People dying because they cannot afford treatment...Going bankrupt because they cannot afford treatment...Staying at jobs they hate because they cannot afford to lose their "coverage". Pffft.

No one in Canada dies because they cannot afford treatment.
No one goes bankrupt because they cannot afford treatment.
No one stays at a terrible job because of fear they may lose their health coverage.

But America will never have an equitable system. There are too many "Rush Limbahs" and too few who care about one another.

In Canada, we gladly pay taxes so that ALL people can have decent lives. In America each of you are so incredibly selfish that you don't care if people die for lack of money.

It's all about money in the USA. How sad. But it will never change. You all know this. Give up and move to a country that cares about the human rights of the individual.

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» RE: Poor Americans! Posted by: Lilly

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stareagle
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Posted by: maraschino tim on Jul 25, 2009 1:45 PM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
First of all, this is not a freedom of speech issue. It is a truth issue. We must understand that Rush Limbaugh exercising his freedom to speak his opinions freely is one thing. Rush Limbaugh habitually spreading monumentally false information on an unprecedented scale is quite another thing.

Our courts understand that there are limits to freedom of speech. For example, if a witness bears false witness on the stand under oath in a court of law it is considered perjury and is punishable by imprisonment. A witness does not have the right to lie. Why do the Rush Limbaughs of the world have the right to lie to the public?

Inexplicably, if Rush Limbaugh or Bill O’Reilly or any other misleading, lying, mendacious, irrevocably corrupt media kingpin repeatedly misrepresents reality, perjures the truth or egregiously falsifies information on a scale unprecedented in the civilized world, what do we do as a society? We say,“They have freedom of speech,” as we shrug helplessly away. “Nothing we can do but tell our side of the story.”

At a minimum, serial perpetrators of egregious public deceit need to have their nimble little naturally-selected feet held to the proverbial fire until they relent. They—like all Americans—should be encouraged to exercise their freedom speech all they want.
But they must and will be held accountable for offenses that fall generally under the heading of what I would call “public perjury.” This term speaks for itself—those public individuals and institutions who participate in spreading rampant lies and falsehoods which thereby betray the public trust will be prosecuted and punished.

The public cannot forever tolerate a colossal betrayal by the media of the public trust, particularly when such offenses involve the gross distortion of legally ascertained facts and demonstrable evidentiary truth. Stiff fines, jail time, and removal of license to broadcast should be some of the discretionary punishments that courts could level against perpetrators of these crimes.

The best weapon against the Limbaughs of the world is the truth and the laws that uphold the truth. It is patently clear that the Limbaughs of the world are determined not to let the truth get in the way of their ideology, financial fortune and unfettered media power. A society such as ours that is based on Constitutional freedoms deserves and requires better media ethics and enforcement of public perjury offenses.

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Limbaugh or none, the Blue Dogs will join the GOP in selling us out.
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Posted by: JenniferBedingfield on Jul 25, 2009 2:11 PM   
Current rating: 4    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
There are long term remedies to all of this silliness. First, if you don't like Limbaugh don't listen to him. Second, we need to spend more time learning to be real progressives instead of Obamabots or shall I say party shills. Learn to vote on the issues instead of on the party and see who you can put into office that will be on your side for a change. Limbaugh is one rightwing creep. Let's get past him and quit worrying about what he'll say next. He's too predictable anyway. The Democrats, liberal or blue dogs, are selling out because of Limbaugh. They're selling out because they refuse to break out of being tied to money and material of those big monied lobbyists.

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Faux News and its false prophets are heading for a fall.
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Posted by: MEL810 on Jul 25, 2009 2:44 PM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
I recently heard, from a very reliable source, that FOX Broadcasting is headed for bankruptcy late this year or early next. They are already cutting employees salaries, laying people off, cutting down the a/c, the lights, etc..

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» Why don't you list your "reliable source"? Posted by: etvaugha@mtu.edu
» Hallejujah if it is true Posted by: Hiroak
» RE: Hallejujah if it is true Posted by: etvaugha@mtu.edu
» RE: Hallejujah if it is true Posted by: cberkland
» RE: Hallejujah if it is true Posted by: Lex Thomas

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I love how this is called "health care reform"
[Report this comment]
Posted by: etvaugha@mtu.edu on Jul 25, 2009 4:30 PM   
Current rating: 1    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
This bill is simple: take money from the rich, borrow money from China, and print more money in order to pay for care at current prices within the current system for those without health care. The system itself remains the same. There is no reform, only a new oppressive tax on the group of people who create jobs in the USA, an inflationry burden and punishment on those who save money, and a massive debt placed on all our young Americans. What I've said above is the truth, not some conservative propaganda. And it's why the majority of Americans and politicians view this "reform" as a disaster. Whenever a wild liberal idea is shot down by the majority, Alternet blames conservative "mind control" rather than the rediculousness of the idea itself.

Real health care reform would involve new regulation to lower health care costs within the current system. Several ways of doing this would be legislation that requires more price transparency on the part of medical providers, and severe caps on medical malpractice suits. Those are two reasons why health care costs 10 cents on the dollar in India. But liberals will never implement those two items. It would mean less money for doctors and lawyers, which Obamabots are in the tank for. Reason being doctors and lawyers provide a great deal of funding for Dems.

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» agree and disagree Posted by: Drclaw
» RE: agree and disagree Posted by: Quannah
» RE: agree and disagree Posted by: Drclaw
» RE: agree and disagree Posted by: Quannah
» RE: agree and disagree Posted by: etvaugha@mtu.edu

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war disease"tOO big to fail (BooM)
[Report this comment]
Posted by: wolvedrive on Jul 25, 2009 6:22 PM   
Current rating: 2    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
a sick form of grafft,cannilbolism has intellagently evolved it's design into.i'm sure if ya watch vermin and swine close enough,thairs a system to their madness of self promotion and identity redemption within the "social structures involved,,,the brood,the republic,a single celled organisim about the size of a pre-historic dust mite,as it currently sits,OO-ha,ha,,,maybe the other half of the chemically based symbiotic relationship is in short soon to follow(aka the democrates)also legally identified as,,,thats' right you guessed it)capitolist(,according the outlook(cdc)40% are scheduled to,,,"clear the books sometyme this coming season of harvest,,,probably not all US players though mostly #-1 children and the infirm,,,makes less noise that way,genius don't ya think,well do ya punks,OO.Swine Flu,or as the lobby within an entity of a host prefers to refer it,swine before pearls,ya know what i'm scripting/talking about,not to mention any ID'z"

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"Entertainment" that kills.
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Posted by: KeepsonTickn on Jul 25, 2009 7:19 PM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Limbaugh and Hannity and the rest of the Republican leadership are telling lies that will literally kill people. Anyone who believes that their "entertainment" which saturates talk radio and their talking points that are passed on and never refuted by main stream media toadies. Does anyone really believe that Bush would have lost by such a small margin that he could steal the election without free 3 hours a day political ads?

We should break up the media monopolies like Fox that happily lose money on their stations to block progressive talk and eventually to cash in on bad policy.

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» RE: "Entertainment" that kills. Posted by: etvaugha@mtu.edu

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Obama wants to make private insurance illegal
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Posted by: MotherLodeBeth on Jul 25, 2009 8:09 PM   
Current rating: 1    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
There are a number of videos of Obama folks speaking to private groups that are now being shown on news sites where we are told that the goal is to drive private insurance companies out of business.

Sorry, but as an American I cannot find anything in the Constitution, Bill of Rights etc where we are told that Government is supposed to provide the life liberty and pursuit of happiness. Where did the founding father say that the government will take care of us? Many people like the Amish have no desire to use ANY government service, which brings up the religious freedom protections. Will people who are religious be forced to have government coverage? Remember Obama operatives have been up front in saying they want to drive private insurance out of business.

And what about the millions who can afford private insurance but don't buy it now? And what about the person who could buy insurance but spends the money on the newest high tech toys, vacations, eating out and other things? If someone can afford it but refuses to buy the insurance what happened to personal freedom? The same liberals who scream personal freedom for themselves want to force choices on others?

And with baby boomers becoming the fastest growing group with Social Security and Medicare you better believe that any government program will deny coverage for certain care simply because Medicare is going broke and with Medicare being brought under the umbrella of national healthcare
we cannot afford it all.

In fact Dr. Eziekel Emannuel the brother of the Presidents Chief of staff, and a medical advisor to President Obama has written a great deal about limiting care to older people. If its YOU or your parent do you want them to die rather than get care?

We need LESS government not more!!!

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» RE: So, do you want to live forever? Posted by: etvaugha@mtu.edu

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A View of the Right
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Posted by: Lilly on Jul 25, 2009 8:10 PM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Samples from townhall.com, which I read on a daily basis: Obamacare will require doctors to perform abortions; it will mandate euthanasia, with "death counseling" required every five years; it will definitely force 100% of the population into government clinics where they will have no choice of doctor; private doctors and private insurance will be outlawed; waits for treatment will be a year or two; certain drugs and vaccinations will be compulsory; abortion for eugenic purposes will be required; treatment will be withheld from the elderly for the purpose of saving money; the untreated elderly will be sent to gulags which are already under construction, and many similar stories. And people are believing this stuff as if it were the Holy Gospel.

Also repeated hourly are the statements that "socialized medicine has failed everywhere it has been tried", "people in countries with government health care all hate it", and "we have the best medical care in the world". Last week a poster in Norway tried to explain that his country's program works well, but other posters just attacked both him and Norway using rude language.

I wish the media would finally grow some balls and do a big huge expose of this use of distortions and outright lies to try and derail health care reform. And I don't think that the Obama administration has been doing NEARLY enough to counter the right-wing on this, or to EDUCATE the public. There is an unbelievable amount of hysteria out there.

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» RE: A View of the Right Posted by: cberkland
» RE: A View of the Right Posted by: Drclaw
» RE: A View of the Right Posted by: Morell
» RE: A View of the Right Posted by: Lloydmillerus

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I hope
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Posted by: wormfarmer on Jul 25, 2009 8:14 PM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
single payer gets seriously considered.

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» RE: I hope Posted by: JenniferBedingfield
» RE: I hope Posted by: Quannah

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OR... [Anybody read this yet?]
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Posted by: photon's feather on Jul 26, 2009 1:42 PM   
Current rating: 4    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
David Sirota says it's not because of Blue Dogs' constituents. Once again, it comes down to money.

The Three Armies Occupying D.C.:
Land Rover Liberals, Corrupt Cowboys and the Millionaire Media - [Open Left]

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two right wings + progressives shoot themselves in the feet
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Posted by: bfh369 on Jul 26, 2009 4:16 PM   
Current rating: 4    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
And, what is never mentioned is that where there are progressive stations in
grass roots right regions the progressives spend too much of their time
deriding the right - all the right, the corporate media and the unsuspecting
grass roots right whom the corporate right must brainwash for support. What
is sorely needed, I have felt for years, and people like Thom Hartman and Ed
Schultz are leaning in that direction, is for progressives to address the
grass roots right from an empathetic or friendly perspective and begin to
develop common ground so that the grass roots right can begin to understand
that they have been brainwashed, lied to and exploited in every way possible
by their leaders - the Republican Party and Corporate America. I call it
right wing incest because the corporate right rapes the grass roots right
from birth to the grave.

Brian

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Limbaugh, what an interesting Primate indeed!
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Posted by: talkville on Jul 26, 2009 6:59 PM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
A certain school of thought prefers to consider Man a more elevated form of animality, which in many respects is perfectly defensible and reasonable.

But Limbaugh goes much, much further: he also aligns himself with those who would champion such animality to the extent of considering himself nothing more than a very clever member of that Club.
Rather than seek to be a Man and develop his human characteristics, he prefers to imitate that observed class of primates, the chimpanzees.
He thus dons a suit-and-tie and takes to the microphone as the Spokesman for the Sophisticated Chimpanzees and as a champion of their Right to Rule and organize our social relations--based directly on the astute and observant study of all those still existing tribes or actual chimpanzees still found in the wild.

And he sure earns a whole lot of bananas for his efforts!

Alas for him, our more human societies have long gotten the upper hand, although not to the extent that many of us may think -- it's still very much up in the air as to who will prevail!

Keep an eye out for these sophisticated imitators of the natural world; their capacity to learn and develop and use very complex equipment and to remember just those things they need for their purposes is quite strong. The only difference is that they imitate and mimic and never think for themselves.

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Palin and Limbaugh are there to frighten and entertain you!
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Posted by: Lex Thomas on Jul 26, 2009 9:20 PM   
Current rating: 3    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Their function is to forever distract you from critical examination of Obama and this Democratic Congress, owned and paid for by the ruling corporate elite, is dedicated to looting and destroying the people of this country and the planet.

Never discussed in the corporate media, are the consequences of the collapse of capitalism. Never discussed is the destruction of public education, public health, "living wage" jobs, etc. that we all need to survive. These are all being destroyed by the hundreds of billions looting the economy for unending phoney wars on "terrorism". And now the trillions to Wall Street, banks, a bottomless "black hole" of unaccounted looting.

This run-amok gangster capitalism has collapsed. Capitalism cannot be "reformed" or "bailed out in any way that will restore economic health to working people and to society. Don't you ever wonder why Rupert Murdoch supported Obama?

The complete bankruptcy of "progressive" politics is now painfully evident. With the election of Obama and complete Democratic Party control of Congress. we have a continuation of all the Bush-Cheney wars, corrupt conomic looting of the economy, increasing unemployment and impoverishment of millions, continued destruction of the global environment, etc.

To de-program "progrssive" indoctrination, try reading the World Socialist Web-Site daily, at http://www.wsws.org.

Socialist perspectives on current affairs, published six days a week, for over ten years.

Go to WSWS home page for a FREE email subscription!

(Some current stories:)

Obama escalates assault on public education
http://www.wsws.org/articles/2009/jul2009/educ-j25.shtml

Following example of Bush-Cheney
Obama administration bars torture investigators from Guantánamo Bay
http://www.wsws.org/articles/2009/jul2009/guan-j25.shtml

As jobless claims rise, Wall Street celebrates corporate profit reports
http://www.wsws.org/articles/2009/jul2009/econ-j24.shtml

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BALONEY PREMISE
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Posted by: reelman on Jul 27, 2009 11:56 AM   
Current rating: 2    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Did Bush cry for 8 years about moveon and airhead america? NO. Liberals (aka secular socialists) are the biggest sissies. Don't listen to RL and tell you friends not to...its an option. Good grief.

What is so sick is that liberals pretend to be big Free Speechers but they lie.
Sell your secular socialism as the way to go...ohhh, that is too tough? Maybe that tells you something.
Bigger gov-meant, higher taxes and secular values (like abortion/homo marriage) are your thing...so sell them for a change...tell us why the opposite is wrong.
Factless assertions are the liberal stock and trade...rant on but never tell us why secular socialism is best or show us a mdoel country where it works.

I am not fooled...57 million plus were not fooled in the last election. When all federal workers and congress are NOT mandated into any future public plan but hold tight to their private sweetheart plan...that should tell even dimwit liberals something.

The fact canadians and others with national health care come here for life-changing surgeries should tell liberals something.

How about reforming tort law about medical suits?
How about reforming insurance so a whole state or 2 or 3 can form a network if they CHOOSE?

How about an unpaid Nat. Commission (like the Grace one in the 1980s) to find free or nearly free medical reforms?

How about NOT lying about Repubs? They offered 38 House amendments and all lost...one was that fed workers/congress be included?

Limbaugh makes no laws and imposes no taxes...the democrats have all the votes...so sit down and shut up...liberals take ALL the responsibility now...stop the blame shifting baloney.

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How About Quoting Legislation to Prove Rush/Hannity Wrong?
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Posted by: Lloydmillerus on Jul 28, 2009 5:01 AM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Rush and Hannity dig into the health care bills, quote provisions and draw their conclusions that the baby boomers are being set-up for DENIAL of care as they age!

The author of this article, on the other hand, JUST BELIEVES THE SIMPLE-MINDED promises of Democrat Party Leaders who let special interest write the health care bill AND BRAG ABOUT NOT READING IT!!!

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SOME O-CARE PROBS
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Posted by: reelman on Jul 28, 2009 3:41 PM   
Current rating: 3    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
JUST SOME PROBLEMS WITH OBAMA-CARE

Obama is a known serial liar.
The country is broke.
The democrat leaders have purposefully kept details from voters.

The premises are false and nutty.
Congress is not included in the Plan.
Federal workers are included in the Plan.

There is no tort reform.
Medicare and Medicaide are broke under the gov-meant.
The more we know the more resistance grows.

It grows the gov-meant.
It will fund abortion and mercy-killing…eventually.
It will bankrupt insurance companies because the gov-meant needs no profit.

Its not online and kept there a week before any votes.
There is no portability…as far as we know.
There is no provision for much larger networks, like a state or two…to lower costs.

There are too many mini-czars forced upon voters and doctors.
It is not patient-centered but cost-centered.
It will slash medical incomes.

The gov-meant cannot run a hot dog stand.
The gov-meant lied (to sell us) many past programs…that quickly cost 3-9x what they told us
The taxes on top of 4x the national debt we now have will crush any recovery.

The usual control freak suspects that love socialism salivate at this bill.
The potential for patient abuse is off the scale.

http://conservablogs.com/theconservativecrawfish

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O-CARE PROMISES
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Posted by: reelman on Jul 29, 2009 11:54 AM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
WHAT O-CARE PROMISES

“It’s time to fix our unsustainable insurance system and create a new foundation for health care security. That means guaranteeing your health care security and stability with eight basic consumer protections:

* No discrimination for pre-existing conditions
* No exorbitant out-of-pocket expenses, deductibles or co-pays
* No cost-sharing for preventive care
* No dropping of coverage if you become seriously ill
* No gender discrimination
* No annual or lifetime caps on coverage
* Extended coverage for young adults
* Guaranteed insurance renewal so long as premiums are paid ”

CRAWFISH NOTE: This is the e mail sales pitch from President Barack Obama …these are lies, there is no free lunch, the gov-meant is already broke…of course…congress and federal workers are not mandated into this dream program RUN by the gov-meant.
The gov-meant that has Medicare-Medicaide broke along with Social Security and the Postal Surface on the brink. That gov-meant.

As usual, we conservatives and thinkers have been warning you all summer 2009. Also, as usual, the national democrats (aka secular socialists) can provide no model country for socialized medicine and completely ignore reality, freedom and common sense.

This post will be re-posted a few times in the future as this awful abomination starts impacting YOU.
That will be before the 2010 elections when democrats will pay dearly for this kooky assault on our culture of freedom.

http://conservablogs.com/theconservativecrawfish

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BASOQIO
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Posted by: itouch backup on Jul 29, 2009 7:51 PM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]

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If Canadian healthcare is better...
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Posted by: mfranklin on Jul 30, 2009 2:01 PM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Why is it that the average disease infected American lives 10 years longer than the same
canadian?

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