COMMENTS: 407
Forget Red vs. Blue -- It's the Educated vs. People Easily Fooled by Propaganda
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We live in two Americas. One America, now the minority, functions in a print-based, literate world. It can cope with complexity and has the intellectual tools to separate illusion from truth. The other America, which constitutes the majority, exists in a non-reality-based belief system. This America, dependent on skillfully manipulated images for information, has severed itself from the literate, print-based culture. It cannot differentiate between lies and truth. It is informed by simplistic, childish narratives and cliches. It is thrown into confusion by ambiguity, nuance and self-reflection. This divide, more than race, class or gender, more than rural or urban, believer or nonbeliever, red state or blue state, has split the country into radically distinct, unbridgeable and antagonistic entities.
There are over 42 million American adults, 20 percent of whom hold high school diplomas, who cannot read, as well as the 50 million who read at a fourth- or fifth-grade level. Nearly a third of the nation's population is illiterate or barely literate. And their numbers are growing by an estimated 2 million a year. But even those who are supposedly literate retreat in huge numbers into this image-based existence. A third of high school graduates, along with 42 percent of college graduates, never read a book after they finish school. Eighty percent of the families in the United States last year did not buy a book.
The illiterate rarely vote, and when they do vote they do so without the ability to make decisions based on textual information. American political campaigns, which have learned to speak in the comforting epistemology of images, eschew real ideas and policy for cheap slogans and reassuring personal narratives. Political propaganda now masquerades as ideology. Political campaigns have become an experience. They do not require cognitive or self-critical skills. They are designed to ignite pseudo-religious feelings of euphoria, empowerment and collective salvation. Campaigns that succeed are carefully constructed psychological instruments that manipulate fickle public moods, emotions and impulses, many of which are subliminal. They create a public ecstasy that annuls individuality and fosters a state of mindlessness. They thrust us into an eternal present. They cater to a nation that now lives in a state of permanent amnesia. It is style and story, not content or history or reality, which inform our politics and our lives. We prefer happy illusions. And it works because so much of the American electorate, including those who should know better, blindly cast ballots for slogans, smiles, the cheerful family tableaux, narratives and the perceived sincerity and the attractiveness of candidates. We confuse how we feel with knowledge.
The illiterate and semi-literate, once the campaigns are over, remain powerless. They still cannot protect their children from dysfunctional public schools. They still cannot understand predatory loan deals, the intricacies of mortgage papers, credit card agreements and equity lines of credit that drive them into foreclosures and bankruptcies. They still struggle with the most basic chores of daily life from reading instructions on medicine bottles to filling out bank forms, car loan documents and unemployment benefit and insurance papers. They watch helplessly and without comprehension as hundreds of thousands of jobs are shed. They are hostages to brands. Brands come with images and slogans. Images and slogans are all they understand. Many eat at fast food restaurants not only because it is cheap but because they can order from pictures rather than menus. And those who serve them, also semi-literate or illiterate, punch in orders on cash registers whose keys are marked with symbols and pictures. This is our brave new world.
Political leaders in our post-literate society no longer need to be competent, sincere or honest. They only need to appear to have these qualities. Most of all they need a story, a narrative. The reality of the narrative is irrelevant. It can be completely at odds with the facts. The consistency and emotional appeal of the story are paramount. The most essential skill in political theater and the consumer culture is artifice. Those who are best at artifice succeed. Those who have not mastered the art of artifice fail. In an age of images and entertainment, in an age of instant emotional gratification, we do not seek or want honesty. We ask to be indulged and entertained by clichs, stereotypes and mythic narratives that tell us we can be whomever we want to be, that we live in the greatest country on Earth, that we are endowed with superior moral and physical qualities and that our glorious future is preordained, either because of our attributes as Americans or because we are blessed by God or both.
The ability to magnify these simple and childish lies, to repeat them and have surrogates repeat them in endless loops of news cycles, gives these lies the aura of an uncontested truth. We are repeatedly fed words or phrases like yes we can, maverick, change, pro-life, hope or war on terror. It feels good not to think. All we have to do is visualize what we want, believe in ourselves and summon those hidden inner resources, whether divine or national, that make the world conform to our desires. Reality is never an impediment to our advancement.
The Princeton Review analyzed the transcripts of the Gore-Bush debates, the Clinton-Bush-Perot debates of 1992, the Kennedy-Nixon debates of 1960 and the Lincoln-Douglas debates of 1858. It reviewed these transcripts using a standard vocabulary test that indicates the minimum educational standard needed for a reader to grasp the text. During the 2000 debates George W. Bush spoke at a sixth-grade level (6.7) and Al Gore at a seventh-grade level (7.6). In the 1992 debates Bill Clinton spoke at a seventh-grade level (7.6), while George H.W. Bush spoke at a sixth-grade level (6.8), as did H. Ross Perot (6.3). In the debates between John F. Kennedy and Richard Nixon the candidates spoke in language used by 10th-graders. In the debates of Abraham Lincoln and Stephen A. Douglas the scores were respectively 11.2 and 12.0. In short, today's political rhetoric is designed to be comprehensible to a 10-year-old child or an adult with a sixth-grade reading level. It is fitted to this level of comprehension because most Americans speak, think and are entertained at this level. This is why serious film and theater and other serious artistic expression, as well as newspapers and books, are being pushed to the margins of American society. Voltaire was the most famous man of the 18th century. Today the most famous "person" is Mickey Mouse.
In our post-literate world, because ideas are inaccessible, there is a need for constant stimulus. News, political debate, theater, art and books are judged not on the power of their ideas but on their ability to entertain. Cultural products that force us to examine ourselves and our society are condemned as elitist and impenetrable. Hannah Arendt warned that the marketization of culture leads to its degradation, that this marketization creates a new celebrity class of intellectuals who, although well read and informed themselves, see their role in society as persuading the masses that "Hamlet" can be as entertaining as "The Lion King" and perhaps as educational. "Culture," she wrote, "is being destroyed in order to yield entertainment."
"There are many great authors of the past who have survived centuries of oblivion and neglect," Arendt wrote, "but it is still an open question whether they will be able to survive an entertaining version of what they have to say."
The change from a print-based to an image-based society has transformed our nation. Huge segments of our population, especially those who live in the embrace of the Christian right and the consumer culture, are completely unmoored from reality. They lack the capacity to search for truth and cope rationally with our mounting social and economic ills. They seek clarity, entertainment and order. They are willing to use force to impose this clarity on others, especially those who do not speak as they speak and think as they think. All the traditional tools of democracies, including dispassionate scientific and historical truth, facts, news and rational debate, are useless instruments in a world that lacks the capacity to use them.
As we descend into a devastating economic crisis, one that Barack Obama cannot halt, there will be tens of millions of Americans who will be ruthlessly thrust aside. As their houses are foreclosed, as their jobs are lost, as they are forced to declare bankruptcy and watch their communities collapse, they will retreat even further into irrational fantasy. They will be led toward glittering and self-destructive illusions by our modern Pied Pipers--our corporate advertisers, our charlatan preachers, our television news celebrities, our self-help gurus, our entertainment industry and our political demagogues -- who will offer increasingly absurd forms of escapism.
The core values of our open society, the ability to think for oneself, to draw independent conclusions, to express dissent when judgment and common sense indicate something is wrong, to be self-critical, to challenge authority, to understand historical facts, to separate truth from lies, to advocate for change and to acknowledge that there are other views, different ways of being, that are morally and socially acceptable, are dying. Obama used hundreds of millions of dollars in campaign funds to appeal to and manipulate this illiteracy and irrationalism to his advantage, but these forces will prove to be his most deadly nemesis once they collide with the awful reality that awaits us.
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Comments are closed-
Posted by: -matti on Nov 12, 2008 12:40 AM
Current rating: 3 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
The title chosen for Alternet at best confuses Mr. Hedges' point and at worst is totally unattached to it.
This piece is mostly about the -increasing- tendency to get one's information more from pictures and sound (TV) than the written word.
From this tendency -and from his opinion of the quality of "Americans'" actions and ideas- Mr. Hedges comes to some conclusions on the implications for Society and the World.
Alternet's title seems assured of distracting from Mr. Hedges' intended focus and fomenting a huge -and pointless- debate on "education".
Likely an even more pointless and huge one than Mr. Hedges' own unfortunate use of the now-loaded (both conceptually AND emotionally) term, "Illiterate" -when what he means could be better called "A-lliterate", doesn't read, not cannot read- sparked on truthdig itself.
Sloppy, sloppy Alternet *wags finger*.
november5.org
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» RE: Title switch skews point of Article.
Posted by: Von
» Thanks. And as we see, the pointless debate has begun.
Posted by: -matti
» RE: Thanks. And as we see, the pointless debate has begun.
Posted by: chomsky
» RE: people focused on picture info over word info lose the ability to USE word info
Posted by: Lauren
» RE: people focused on picture info over word info lose the ability to USE word info
Posted by: Bibsisis
» What makes you think the educated are immune?
Posted by: dcyalter
» RE: What makes you think the educated are immune?
Posted by: weathered
» RE: What makes you think the educated are immune?
Posted by: yellow
» RE: What makes you think the educated are immune?
Posted by: Lauren
» RE: What makes you think the educated are immune?
Posted by: Mel H.
» RE: What makes you think the educated are immune?
Posted by: Lauren
» RE: What makes you think the educated are immune?
Posted by: Crazy H
» RE: What makes you think the educated are immune?
Posted by: Cybershaman
» RE: What makes you think the educated are immune?
Posted by: Crazy H
» RE: the latest fashionable opinion on the subject, only $9.99
Posted by: Lauren
» RE: Title switch skews point of Article. ~ Why are posting such whiny tripe on AlterNet?
Posted by: Lauren
» Why do you...
Posted by: 2thepoint
» Because it's easier than thinking. The entire...
Posted by: ABetterFuture
» RE: Because it's easier than thinking. The entire...
Posted by: 2thepoint
» RE: Why do you...
Posted by: Lauren
» RE: Matti and other trolls are a perfect example of what the article speaks about.
Posted by: yellow
» RE: Von...WTFAY
Posted by: BigElectricCat
» RE: Von...WTFAY
Posted by: Lauren
» Lack of perspective, illiteracy, is the mark of the far right and far left
Posted by: Libertarian Paternalist
» Palin is a University of Idaho graduate.
Posted by: GuitarBill
» RE: Palin is a University of Idaho graduate.
Posted by: Crazy H
» RE: Palin is an ignorant college graduate
Posted by: Jest2007
» RE: Lack of perspective, illiteracy, is the mark of the far right and far left
Posted by: Libertarian Paternalist
» No, the "centrists" are worse
Posted by: Pissed Off Woman
» RE: No, the "centrists" are worse
Posted by: Lauren
» RE: Matti and other trolls are a perfect example of what the article speaks about.
Posted by: Bibsisis
» RE: However you get it knowledge is freedom
Posted by: Edward George
» RE: "Knowledge is not intelligence." Heraclitus
Posted by: DaBear
» RE: "Knowledge is not intelligence." Heraclitus
Posted by: Edward George
» RE: However you get it knowledge is freedom
Posted by: BigElectricCat
» RE: However you get it knowledge is freedom
Posted by: Edward George
» RE: Title switch skews point of Article.
Posted by: Jan Frel
» RE: Title switch skews point of Article.
Posted by: yesman
» RE:Title switch skews point of Article. Lay off Obama.
Posted by: Faded Green
» THE MAN WHO CAN READ AND DOESN'T AND THE MAN WHO CAN'T
Posted by: Raymond Emerson
» RE: THE MAN WHO CAN READ AND DOESN'T AND THE MAN WHO CAN'T
Posted by: Bibsisis
» RE: Title switch skews point of Article.
Posted by: racetoinfinity
» RE: Title switch skews point of Article.
Posted by: Bibsisis
» RE: Title switch skews point of Article.
Posted by: glorybe
Comments are closed-
Posted by: gunboat diplomat on Nov 12, 2008 2:17 AM
Current rating: 4 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
"Iraq has nuclear weapons and must be invaded."
"Tax cuts for the rich are good for the poor."
etc.
However, the educated elite are subject to their own propaganda as well, and it's a bit more effective. This is the kind of propaganda that makes intelligent, educated adults willing to devote their time and effort to advancing the agenda of totalitarian psychopaths.
The classic example is the public opinion towards the Vietnam War. The standard belief is that college-educated people opposed the war, while the illiterate were for it. James Risen does the statistics in his book "Lies my Teacher Told Me":
Most people believe that the Vietnam split is something like this, based on level of education:
college: 90% anti-war, 10% pro-war
high school: 75% anti-war, 25% pro-war
grade school: 60% anti-war, 40% pro-war
In reality, the educated groups were the ones who supported the war the most:
college: 60% anti-war, 40% pro-war
high school: 75% anti-war, 25% pro-war
grade school: 80% anti-war, 20% pro-war
Thus, the least educated and the most illiterate were the ones who opposed the war! Perhaps this is because they hadn't read all the artful propaganda in the papers about the "great noble cause" we were in engaged in.
Some of the basic prejudices of the educated class regarding the Vietnam war are listed by Risen:
1) Educated people are more informed and critical, hence more able to sift through information and conclude that the Vietnam War was not in our best interests...
2) Educated people are more tolerant. There were elements of racism and ethnocentrism in our conduct of the war; educated people are less likely to accept such prejudice.
Risen does a great job of describing the characteristics of the educated classes that make them susceptible to artful propaganda.
The first is Allegiance. Follow along: educated adults tend to make high salaries, and their education level often has much to do with their parent's wealth level. However, these people prefer to see America as a strict meritocracy, rather than one where inherited wealth is the dominant feature.
"They achieved their own success; other people must be getting their just deserts. Believing that American society is open to individual input, the educated well-to-do tend to agree with society's decisions and feel they had a hand in forming them"... in this sense, educated successful people have a vested interest in believing that the the society that helped them to be educated and successful is fair.
The second is Socialization. This is the process of "learning how to behave" - the social rules, norms, language, etc. Risen again puts it well: "Education as socialization tells people what to think and how to act and requires them to conform. Education as socialization influences students simply to accept the rightness of our society."
Just look at the neoconservatives - well educated but totally insane, and responsible for the most disastrous U.S. foreign policy ever, just about. I'd far rather have an illiterate person in charge - because they will be able to learn, and will likely be motivated to. They will also have a sense of humility, right?
Neocons already know it all, and are entirely sure that their views are the only right ones, and so they can't learn a damn thing.
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» RE: Illiterate doesn't mean dumb, just uneducated - and educated people can be very gullible.
Posted by: Lilly
» Noble savage
Posted by: kepstein7777
» Educated does not equal intelligent
Posted by: Karina
» two kinds of education: indoctrination vs. exploration
Posted by: gunboat diplomat
» RE: ignorance
Posted by: Lauren
» Education and Character
Posted by: pdxjoe
» RE: ducation and Character
Posted by: Lauren
» RE: Illiterate doesn't mean dumb, just uneducated - and educated people can be very gullible.
Posted by: Pissed Off Woman
» Gullible
Posted by: kepstein7777
» RE: Gullible
Posted by: rinthy
» RE: Illiterate doesn't mean dumb, just uneducated - and educated people can be very gullible.
Posted by: Junior Barns
» RE: Missing datum
Posted by: Crazy H
» I'd far rather have an illiterate person in charge - because they will be able to learn, and will li
Posted by: bosunj
» RE: I'd far rather have an illiterate person in charge - because they will be able to learn, and will li
Posted by: Bibsisis
» RE: Illiterate doesn't mean dumb, just uneducated - and educated people can be very gullible.
Posted by: blackie4aces
» RE: Illiterate doesn't mean dumb, just uneducated - and educated people can be very gullible.
Posted by: alladat12
» RE: Illiterate doesn't mean dumb, just uneducated - and educated people can be very gullible.
Posted by: Bibsisis
» RE: Illiterate doesn't mean dumb, just uneducated - and educated people can be very gullible.
Posted by: off-the-radar 2
» RE: Illiterate doesn't mean dumb, just uneducated - and educated people can be very gullible.
Posted by: Bibsisis
Comments are closed-
Posted by: weathered on Nov 12, 2008 2:58 AM
Current rating: 3 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Have you ever seen a president-elect command the pr, position and presence that Obama enjoys today?
Pure choreography.
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» RE: The art & science of deceit
Posted by: Lilly
» RE: The art & science of deceit
Posted by: weathered
» RE: The art & science of deceit
Posted by: 2thepoint
» RE: The art & science of deceit
Posted by: Crazy H
» RE: The art & science of deceit
Posted by: Bibsisis
» RE: The art & science of deceit
Posted by: Bibsisis
Comments are closed-
Posted by: Lilly on Nov 12, 2008 3:07 AM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
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» RE: Very Interesting random Thoughts
Posted by: Beck
» RE: Very Interesting random Thoughts
Posted by: bookie
» RE: Very Interesting random Thoughts
Posted by: Beck
» RE: Very Interesting random Thoughts
Posted by: Roman Senator
» RE: andom Thoughts
Posted by: letrightbedone
» RE: andom Thoughts
Posted by: 2thepoint
» RE: andom Thoughts
Posted by: 2thepoint
» RE: andom Thoughts
Posted by: Bill in Detroit
» RE: What is this ... a liberal pep rally?
Posted by: Lauren
» RE: Newt Gingrich, FOX special, "One Nation Under God," 12/23/2006
Posted by: Lauren
Comments are closed-
Posted by: anniekelleher on Nov 12, 2008 3:20 AM
Current rating: 4 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
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» RE: i don't think its the illiterate vs the literate...
Posted by: chomsky
» RE: i don't think its the illiterate vs the literate...
Posted by: davidslesinger
» RE: i don't think its the illiterate vs the literate...
Posted by: chomsky
» RE: i don't think its the illiterate vs the literate...
Posted by: N-o-b-o
» RE: i don't think its the illiterate vs the literate...
Posted by: Lauren
» RE: i don't think its the illiterate vs the literate...
Posted by: Patriot46
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Posted by: ~Fiona~ on Nov 12, 2008 4:18 AM
Current rating: 3 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
It seems even the supposed "Literate" prefer to watch television as to actually "Read"... Reading requires attention, it requires we take the information in and actually "think" about what we've read.
In our world of "Gotta have it NOW" many of us have convinced ourselves we "don't have time to read"...
**shruggs**
That's my two cents...
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» RE: I'm not so sure it is a matter of "Literacy" as much it may be...
Posted by: Lauren
» RE: I'm not so sure it is a matter of "Literacy" as much it may be...
Posted by: 2thepoint
» RE: I'm not so sure it is a matter of "Literacy" as much it may be...
Posted by: 2thepoint
» RE: I'm not so sure it is a matter of "Literacy" as much it may be...
Posted by: Basenjis
» Thank you Basenjis...
Posted by: ~Fiona~
» This author didn't seem to gather information. Obama got more votes from high-school dropouts than
Posted by: Beck
» RE: those who didn't finish high school voted for Obama. The bar graph is interesting:
Posted by: Lauren
Comments are closed-
Posted by: rugger on Nov 12, 2008 4:22 AM
Current rating: 3 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
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» RE: Watch the movide Idiocracy
Posted by: deeannef
» Link to review, interesting read, the movie is dead on too
Posted by: Overburdened Planet
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Posted by: Itsthewater on Nov 12, 2008 4:23 AM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
But as I said to my European educated wife the other day, the lashback against the prerogatives of Capital began with the most illiterate and educationally challenged people in the country: miners and loggers.
I feel that we may be entering another such phase (like the one that occurred at the beginning of the last century) where undereducated people fight for basic survival against recognizable forces. Witness the "Redneck Revolt" against the bailout.
All the images and emotion described above were employed to garner support for the thievery, but "Red" America didn't buy it. I was particularly struck by the image that Bush used in insisting that we had to do this: it was the exact same semiotics as the the sale of the Iraq war.
He stood at the end of a long hallway (I don't know, it could be "THE" long hallway, used for these occasions) and gave the same speech in the same clothes with the same props (red runner carpet, flag of US, imperial flag of the Presidency) and warned, although aged and not as much into his role as 6 years ago, that the need for quick action without reflection was a paramount duty of the American public. It was the exact same speech, with the words "Financial Crisis" substituted for "WMDs".
It is possible that the undereducated know who is screwing them and why. It is also possible that educated rich are aware that their policies in reference to general well being and sustainability are insane and don't care. The wealthy are not known for their ability to see over the horizon to the effects that their causes will make. See, for example, "let them eat cake".
The undereducated (and miseducated) public will arrive at their appointed times.
What I worry about is an angry vet, flunked out of art school, say, in Memphis, Atlanta, Jackson who decides to bring vengeance to the liberals and capitalists that sold out his dream.
Let's call him Alex Hatler. He is frustrated but articulate in the manipulation of images. He makes up a natty new wardrobe in Brown, Black or Red that lets the people who share his convictions identify themselves.
They have marches, maybe Sarah Palin gets behind them, where impassioned speeches are screamed about the bankers who allowed this monstrosity of miscegenation into the White House. After all, it is (according to the MSM) the financial crisis that propelled Obama to victory.
Meanwhile, the fragility of the "real" economy stresses people to the point where they say
ENOUGH SCALPEL, LET'S GO SLEDGEHAMMER!!
Maybe a fire in the capitol, blamed on Bill Ayers?
Sleep tight
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» RE: The primitive will always be with us . . .
Posted by: mike1997
» RE: It was the exact same speech, with the words "Financial Crisis" substituted for "WMDs".
Posted by: Lauren
Comments are closed-
Posted by: pinnacle on Nov 12, 2008 4:36 AM
Current rating: 4 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
You must understand a simple fact. There are more ignorant people in the United States than there are educated ones and there are more stupid people than smart ones. A visit to Home Depot, for example, will illustrate that point very well. It should be clear, then, that education, or the lack thereof, is one of the biggest problems facing the US. And, yes, it is much easier to manipulate the ignorant than the educated because the educated have learned more, seen more, and done more. Maybe we should do away with the "Cartoon Channel" and require our kids to watch the "History Channel". Doing so would go a long ways towards educating the population.
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» "Home Depot" as emblem of ignorance tells more about you than us.
Posted by: Sojourner
» Mensa
Posted by: Sojourner
» True Believer
Posted by: clthompson
» Glad to hear it is still in use.
Posted by: Sojourner
» RE: Glad to hear it is still in use. E pluribus unum!
Posted by: Basenjis
» RE: Glad to hear it is still in use. E pluribus unum!
Posted by: Lauren
» RE: "Home Depot" as emblem of ignorance tells more about you; yeah, what was that?
Posted by: Beck
» RE: It's Knowledge Versus Ignorance
Posted by: yesman
» Emerson on physical activity
Posted by: Sojourner
» RE: merson on physical activity
Posted by: Beck
» RE: It's Knowledge Versus Ignorance
Posted by: Bibsisis
» RE: See my other posts?
Posted by: Lauren
» RE: See my other posts?
Posted by: Bibsisis
Comments are closed-
Posted by: apparently on Nov 12, 2008 4:43 AM
Current rating: 4 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
The world is not divided thusly and not as simplistically as hedges claims. This view not only disgusts for is dripping, know-it-all, holier-than-thou posturing, I-am-above-it-all posturing, it is also dangerous for it can easily blind one to whose one's enemies are and potentially block avenues for new connections and camaraderie.
Don't believe this "print world," self-aggrandizing propaganda.
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» RE: i am disgusted
Posted by: Nbomb3
» RE: i am disgusted (FINALLY, the real thought that should have prefaced any comment!)
Posted by: BigElectricCat
» RE: I have also known people--like those Hedges say are easily duped--demonstrate a critical ...
Posted by: Lauren
» Chris Hedges has gone downhill
Posted by: Pissed Off Woman
» RE: i am disgusted
Posted by: popeurbanxxiii
Comments are closed-
Posted by: Purple Girl on Nov 12, 2008 4:51 AM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Literally I would sit and listen in class and think..."What question should I ask about this?". I was such a obedient child, and also rather shy, I would struggle to think of something. God knows if they were pertinent questions but I was TOLD to to do so.
As I continued through College, this process became easier. In fact I began to realize what some intrustors said was true,'Don't feel foolish about asking questions, Yours may be the one someone else is afraid to ask themselves'.
Heres the difference
Those of US told to ask questions were indirectly informed that the teacher may not tell you everything, so YOU must draw the answers out of them for a clearer understanding. It also helped to encourage Us to seek answers if those given were inadequate.
Seems many others (including some college educated) Never had 'Inquiring minds'...Were they told to just listen in Class,Don't interrupt the teacher, or that the teacher knew everything.
I was not one to ask "lots" of questions- because I was shy, so I would wait until a question surfaced which had not been addressed during the Class. Poignant questions- not just 'participation' grade questions.
My Mother is a Right Wing Conservative (because her Husband is- My Dad was a social Moderate Dem), but she has nurtured the mind set of a Liberal. No Doubt this is frustrating to her...But I remind her that my views come from 'Asking lots of questions'.
Many people are raised to think & Do as they are Told....But it seems that many of US were intentioanlly or inadvertantly nurtured to be Questioners of Authority figures.
I know many less educated people who are deep thinkers and far more highly educated people who can never think outside the Box (the accepted, the standard, the Taught)
Prime Example- the typical Repug talking points are recited verbatium, never rephrased or even reconstructed to be grammatically correct. They speak as if they are connected to the Collective. Such as Now the mantra 'America is Right of Center'. Even faced with a monumental Loss they still hold this illogical view. I have heard every Right winger mechanically insert this lunacy in every conversation since the election.So to further my scope of understanding I must ASK "Why the hell would you assert such a well debunked idea". In theory those Stratedgists, pundits and media people are Well educated. Why do they not ask their 'Brain' why should we continue to look so stupid?...Because Ignorance is Bliss????
Question Authority, make them prove they are such. Challenge them when necessary to assure they continue to deserve such reverence.
I think the Bush adminstration proved 'Authority' is often the ignorant one and has provoked many Idle minded to begin Thinking again (or finally).They are asking more questions and finding the answers inadequate.This is intellectual Empowerment.So it's not Conserv vs Liberal, Red vs Blue, Educated vs uneducated....It's Self Esteem vs obedience. some see the authorities as the 'Mighty Oz',and some of Us ask 'Yeah BUT who's that man behind the curtain?'
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» RE: "...and Ask Lots of Questions" Said my Mother
Posted by: Nbomb3
» RE: "...and Ask Lots of Questions" Said my Mother
Posted by: lasirene
» RE: doubting Thomas
Posted by: Lauren
» RE: "...and Ask Lots of Questions" Said my Mother
Posted by: Edward George
» RE: "...and Ask Lots of Questions" Said my Mother
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» RE: "...and Ask Lots of Questions" Said my Mother
Posted by: Lauren
» RE: "...and Ask Lots of Questions" Said my Mother
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» RE: "...and Ask Lots of Questions" Said my Mother
Posted by: maglindracia
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Posted by: s.duplantier on Nov 12, 2008 4:56 AM
Current rating: 4 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Hedges says "We live in two Americas." No we don't. What could be more oversimplified and non-complex than this patently untrue dualism? "Two Americas" is in fact a print-based concept. You can't take a picture of "Two Americas," or display a symbol of the concept. One could argue that a series of images that even tried to prove that there are two Americas would fail, because it would show individual people, places, and activities, each with hundreds of nuanced differences. This is called reality, and it has less to do with the way that the linear, logical world of the print-based mind thinks that the world works than Hedges has imagined.
Hedges believes the beleaguered minority of literati are holding fast against the unwashed rabble --those easily duped by "simplistic, childish narratives." Yet Hedges narrative is nothing if not a simplistic and childish narrative itself. It is even worse, because the literate book readers of his cultural sphere (we could call it Printlandia) have access to the works of Harold A. Innis, Marshall McLuhan, Walter Ong, Eric Havelock, and others who offer more sophisticated analyses than the oversimplifications of Mr. Hedges.
In a few words, alphabetic and print literacy have given us the tools of thought that have created the very complex and turbulent world that individuals and societies are grappling with today. The literate world is itself the sphere of empire and control which emerged from the inventions of the alphabet, print, and the religions of the book.
Printlandians despise the oral/imagistic cultural mindset. Hedges slanders this "other" America in saying that it "cannot differentiate between lies and truth." But I am afraid it is the print-based mind failing to differentiate here.
Why not use those vaunted nuanced sensibilities to differentiate across the oral/image/literate divides and diagnose pathologies of culture in ways that will really make our collective lives better instead of give us such snobbish analyses?
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» Hear, hear!
Posted by: Coleman
» RE: Hear, hear! The battle lies in a different area.
Posted by: Lauren
» RE: Hear, hear! The battle lies in a different area.
Posted by: rinthy
» RE: Hear, hear! You are not rambling, thanks for sharing your story.
Posted by: Lauren
» RE: Hear, hear! You are not rambling, thanks for sharing your story.
Posted by: rinthy
» Dualism
Posted by: kepstein7777
» Can I order the Whopper from the Picture now?
Posted by: bystander
» RE: Can I order the Whopper from the Picture now?
Posted by: babs
» Two kinds of people: those who believe in two kinds and those who don't.
Posted by: Sojourner
» You Can't Argue With An Image...
Posted by: pdxjoe
» RE: You Can't Argue With An Image... propaganda
Posted by: Lauren
» You Illustrate My Point
Posted by: pdxjoe
» RE: This is not a nuanced analysis...
Posted by: Bibsisis
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Posted by: Smartcookie on Nov 12, 2008 5:02 AM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
It's not merely smart vs dumb people, it's that human beings as a whole are very bad at seperating truth from illusions of truth, among all classes and all the educated.
People are habitual, unless one has a fierce dedication to the truth and changing themselves and their behaviour, and humility to knowledge. Ibn Al-haytham had the best way to approach knowledge and what human beings think they know:
(From wikipedia)
He reasoned that to discover the truth about nature, it is necessary to eliminate human opinion and error, and allow the universe to speak for itself.[58] He wrote in his Doubts Concerning Ptolemy:
Therefore, the seeker after the truth is not one who studies the writings of the ancients and, following his natural disposition, puts his trust in them, but rather the one who suspects his faith in them and questions what he gathers from them, the one who submits to argument and demonstration, and not to the sayings of a human being whose nature is fraught with all kinds of imperfection and deficiency. Thus the duty of the man who investigates the writings of scientists, if learning the truth is his goal, is to make himself an enemy of all that he reads, and, applying his mind to the core and margins of its content, attack it from every side. He should also suspect himself as he performs his critical examination of it, so that he may avoid falling into either prejudice or leniency.
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» RE: Stupidity is the norm, not the exception for all...
Posted by: Nbomb3
» RE: Stupidity is the norm, not the exception for all...
Posted by: BigElectricCat
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Posted by: taxidriver on Nov 12, 2008 5:03 AM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Many people today just accept what they're told, partly because it feeds their biases, and partly because they don't have the tools to evaluate knowledge claims. Also, if you never read opposing views, and you have no respect for intellectual discourse and tolerance of the opinions of others, you have little opportunity to grow.
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» RE: "Learn how to learn"
Posted by: ATH
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Posted by: alexandrapushkin on Nov 12, 2008 5:09 AM
Current rating: 4 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
given the fact that even in the 21st-century, there are large segments of the population of this country who receive a second-class education through no fault of their own, i think it is reasonable to expect a national politician to reach out to all of his constituents, not just the ones who went to harvard like he did. furthermore, it seems to me that the solution to a problem which may or may not stem from the educational level of voters (the author did not much mention religion or culture as signifiers) should be for the nation to demand equal educational opportunities for all of its citizens.
i usually turn my nose up at the mention of a "liberal elite," which i acknowledge squarely places me among one, but in this case, i'm more inclined wrinkle my nose from the stench of it.
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Posted by: 911FalseFlag on Nov 12, 2008 5:12 AM
Current rating: 4 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
The media will spin in a positive light all of the lies put out by McCain and Palin. However, it does not matter who wins since Obama/Biden have sold out to the military industrial oil central private banking complex.
The fact that Obama/Biden say nothing about 9/11 being an inside job, the Federal Reserve Bank being the cause of the current financial crisis and every financial crisis prior to this one from 1913 on, Electronic voting machines being completely hackable both on the machine level and on the transmission of the precinct votes to the central tabulator and that this administration lied to attack Iraq.
Why none of these candidates can speak out is simple. They are all to varying degrees complicit with the cover-up of the above mentioned most pertinent problems in this country. If I know about these underlying causative problems, then they must know.
go to www.911insidejob.net
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» RE: Media's Role in People Being Uninformed and ill-informed
Posted by: jgilb
» RE: Media's Role in People Being Uninformed and ill-informed
Posted by: Lauren
» RE: We must also keep our ego in check.
Posted by: Beck
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Posted by: CHD on Nov 12, 2008 5:19 AM
Current rating: 4 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
In 1858 was the debate in question reported verbatim in the newspapers? Or was it reported and summarised at a level of the 'average' reader?
Is the real difference that people now actually see/listen to the debate and so the participants make sure the language is clear and simple? Especially when some of those watching (and voting in key areas) may not even have English as a 1st language?
And isn't 6th/7th grade a 11 or 12 year old not a 10 year old as the writer says (or was the working title for the piece something about politicians not being smarter than... oh never mind its a TV reference)
The writer appears to fall into the "if you can't read as well as me your not as 'clever' as me trap". Electrical engineers and chemists use symbols to represent the abstract ideas in their fields. Does that mean they are not as clever as print journalists who use only words?
The thing that strikes me about the US elections that I have lived through is that they usually seem more like popularity contests than actual elections. The personal attributes rather than the actual policy differences being the things that are reported on and 'sold' to the public at large (by both the parties themselves and the news). I imagine that this is due to both candidates usually being centre right conservatives (when viewed from a rest of the world perspective) who actually have more in common than they do differences.
And a final point. I don't know if its just the UK news but I keep hearing the same story of poor US homeowners who were told their loan was at a fixed rate when either it wasn't or it was only fixed for 12-18 months. Is this type of 'mis-selling' legal in the US?
Is a loan company or bank making its products and documentation so deliberately obtuse that it catches out the unwary fair? Oh well, never mind, the writer and the banker can enjoy their drink together safe in the knowledge that they are cleverer than everyone else.
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» RE: Politics for the masses?
Posted by: Lauren
» legal in the US?
Posted by: Sojourner
» RE: legal in the US?
Posted by: Lauren
» RE: Politics for the masses?
Posted by: gradioc
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Posted by: olympia43 on Nov 12, 2008 5:22 AM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
One other thing, in spite of all the videos, etc. kids watch they have a very poor vocabulary. Anytime I used a word that was slightly unusual, they looked at me like I was suddenly speaking an alien language.
The big reason that I now get most of my news from the internet is that it gives me a chance to pursue stories in more depth.
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» RE: movie or book
Posted by: Lauren
» RE: movie or book.....olympia43
Posted by: Basenjis
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Posted by: 911FalseFlag on Nov 12, 2008 5:27 AM
Current rating: 4 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
I could go on and on but I will not. Please check out my website which is www.911insidejob.net for many articles and videos
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» RE: Well Said
Posted by: Lauren
» RE: Well Said
Posted by: WyrdSister
» RE: Well Said
Posted by: Lauren
» RE: Well Said
Posted by: Centavo
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Posted by: Skeptic10 on Nov 12, 2008 5:43 AM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
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» RE: ducation level, literacy irrelevant
Posted by: Lauren
» RE: ducation level, literacy irrelevant
Posted by: Beck
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Posted by: Krotos on Nov 12, 2008 6:23 AM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
That's why I and many others keep saying that whether the next four or eight years are a fresh start for the country will depend on us, not him. The idea that we've solved all our problems just by changing the person in the Oval Office is the kind of attitude you'd expect to see in an absolute monarchy, not in a democratic republic. That indeed is scary.
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» RE: Scary (but there are answers if people will participate)
Posted by: nochicagoboys
» RE: Scary; oh, no we didn't.
Posted by: Beck
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Posted by: Lauren on Nov 12, 2008 9:34 AM
Current rating: 1 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Yes you have been, but it was not Obama, it was me!
I played a trick on everybody. I tricked them into having an actual election instead of the usual big media coronation. The big media was most surprised of all. Why, they never saw me coming? No. They were deliberately ignoring a really big story. Will they will see me next time? We will see.
I did it by raising issue after isuue on the internet. I am a mom and girl scout leader so I really know how to talk about the issues people care about, like the economy.
What I was doing was very clever and complicated and lots of people do not believe it. But to keep attributing magic to Obama is simply incorrect, the magic came from me. He just knew what to do with it. Somebody he knew was paying attention to me and they caught and amplified my message of hope.
They had to have faith in me, that I really had a vision for achieving a better world, and I had to convince them. I had to have faith and be able to share my vision. Don't think Bush's forces of darkness weren't busy with me, they were. It was criminal and it was torture. I am a citizen, I do have rights.
"Liberals" keep assuming it was Obama that has this vision, that is not right. It was his smarts to ride and build the wave, but I called it up. You don't have to believe it, but it is true.
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Posted by: MartianBachelor on Nov 12, 2008 9:59 AM
Current rating: 2 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Oh, that's right... those who elected him are the "smart" ones.
I think I sense a tautology going on here.
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Posted by: Passacaglia on Nov 12, 2008 6:01 AM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Sowell equates a turn toward socialism in the 30s with something bad, citing the starving of millions of Russian people were starved to death by the exporting of food instead of feeding the people. Because a totalitarian regime commandeered the socialist government does not in fact diminish the egalitarian base of socialism, it just shows that greedy and powerful can exploit and manipulate any government, including capitalistic ones like the United States. Marxism is the basis for both socialism and capitalism if one would simply read about economic systems and governmental systems. Sowell is wrong. It is a fallacious prediction that the intellectuals of today who are supporting a more socialistic economic approach in order to give equity to the wider population is an implication that democracy will be destroyed. There is such a thing as social democracy that promises to work much better than the one we have that allows a few to rule the many who are subject to being taken advantage of for the profit of the few.
A common mistake usually made is one between forms of government and economic systems. For instance, Marx’s work is used as a basis for a range of ideas from revolutionary socialism as a government structure to capitalist economic systems. I do not claim to be greatly informed about economics or governmental systems, but there is plenty of history around for one to gain a basic understanding. The success or failure of any system, governmental or economic, depends on the minds of those who rise to power and these can be of extreme differences.
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» RE: the faceless intelligensia, that is, intellectuals, are being trounced once again by the right-
Posted by: Lauren
» RE: Criticism of the Intellectuals
Posted by: SicfkOfBush
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Posted by: Farasien on Nov 12, 2008 6:02 AM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
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» Starving
Posted by: kepstein7777
» Survival Instinct
Posted by: pdxjoe
» Yes and No
Posted by: pdxjoe
» RE: Starving
Posted by: Bibsisis
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Posted by: Passacaglia on Nov 12, 2008 6:04 AM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
It is not a simple matter but the crux of governments and economics is how the greatest number of people benefit under governments and their economic policies. If the population is small the problems are fewer and the percentage of those in power is smaller and effects minimized. But with a huge population of over 300 million the disproportion of personal economics becomes a huge problem when the wealth distribution becomes heavy on the top and there are massive numbers of people without the means for a decent life at the bottom. It gives a whole different meaning to bottom feeders. Big troubles brew.
So what is the trouble with being educated? More people become aware of being exploited in a shorter period of time. That presents a problem for those who would exert their greedy will and power over the less informed. What is the problem with intellectuals? They reside on both sides of issues and tend to denigrate each other. It is better to be educated than not to be able to tell the difference when one of them tries to convince a whole lemming public they ought to jump over the edge ahead of them while they lag behind and don’t jump themselves.
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Posted by: maxpayne on Nov 12, 2008 6:22 AM
Current rating: 2 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Let's be honest. It's not how less educated these people are that's blinding them because I've actually seen more dropouts vying for Obama over Mccain. It's the delusion people have been sucker-punched into that's getting them to shoot themselves in the foot with glee even as they keep believing that tax cuts for the rich will also make these poor slobs "rich" as Donald Trump or that going to more reckless resource wars will somehow make them "heros" ala John Mccain. And bring up the idea of conservation, reusing, recycling, and even public transportation and they hiss, sneer, condescend, and laugh at you like a bunch of yankee self-confident snobs. And I've seen this in both "conservatives" and even supposedly "liberals" and "progressives".
Let's focus on getting people off the self-deluded express for a change and quit the dumb vs educated divide.
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» RE: It's not stupidity, it's DELUSION.
Posted by: Lauren
» RE: It's not stupidity, it's DELUSION.
Posted by: maxpayne
» Oh look at dat ! Thanks for being a dingbat !
Posted by: maxpayne
» RE: It's not stupidity, it's DELUSION.
Posted by: Bibsisis
» RE: It's not stupidity, it's DELUSION.
Posted by: SicfkOfBush
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Posted by: Jasonix on Nov 12, 2008 6:22 AM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
The personality types that have the intellectual and temperamental qualities to lead us out of your current morass - for example, the INTJ personality type - constitute as little as 1% of the American population.
The vast bulk of the American population is wired to be make their decisions based on emotions, with little self-awareness or analytical thinking. They're wired to base their ethical values and personal beliefs on the dominant social trends they perceive around them. They are wired to be shallowly optimistic, to think themselves happy, to be energized by being part of a group, and to avoid acknowledging the seriousness of their problems.
That's who Americans are, just from a personality perspective, before even taking IQ, literacy, and other factors into account.
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» RE: The Myers-Briggs test is used to weed out INTJ's
Posted by: DaBear
» Personality tests are crap
Posted by: Pissed Off Woman
» RE: Also worth considering American personality types
Posted by: Bibsisis
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Posted by: Levon on Nov 12, 2008 6:42 AM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Wisdom is ability to see beyond the apparent and discern the more subtle aspects of nature and human interactions.
Though they appear to be of the same source - the mind, they are of different qualities.
Hence there are physicians who are learned yet cannot can be bamboozled and there are laborers who understand that all is not as it appears.
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» Intelligence and Wisdom--a big difference
Posted by: zooeyhall
» RE: Intelligence and Wisdom
Posted by: ATH
» RE: Intelligence and Wisdom
Posted by: WyrdSister
» RE: When the mind ...
Posted by: Edward George
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Posted by: Jasonix on Nov 12, 2008 6:48 AM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
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Posted by: solrev on Nov 12, 2008 6:50 AM
Current rating: 1 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
“This divide, more than race, class or gender, more than rural or urban, believer or nonbeliever, red state or blue state, has split the country into radically distinct, unbridgeable and antagonistic entities. All the other divides was not good enough for you, you have to create one so you can be top dog.” Hedges pretends to sing a different tune but it sounds like a redneck ballad to me. Here is a news flash for you, Shakespeare sucks, and I like Obie-Wan-Kanobie. We started with pictures and a picture is worth a thousand words, so if you do not mind we will stick with our pictures. So if you do not have the ability to communicate with us, why is that our problem? Democrats will not last long if they do not improve their communication skills. Hedges is not even smart enough to know you can not measure English over time. English is a street language and that is why; it is the international language, it is easy to change. Education is at a low point in our society, not because of money or stupid people, but because education is of no value. Give the young people a reason for education other than accumulating wealth and social mobility and they will come. “You ain’t going anywhere without that pigskin”, was a lie when it was being taught for to many people. Now we must reap what we have sown. “Reality is never an impediment to our advancement.” Reality is in the eye of the beholder. At least Hedges has us lowlifes to build his house, assemble his car, and pick up his garbage, and that’s reality.
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Posted by: newsound on Nov 12, 2008 6:54 AM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Want proof? Just look how long it took for Americans to say. "enough." It only took a collapsed economy, two useless wars, a pathetic and misguided response to 9/11, countless administrational blunders and a two-year election campaign to get at least 51% of the population to say that they want "change."
Of course, this "change" will be more of the same, but it is a baby step in the right direction. Yes, you can argue that this piece is a parody of itself, but the historical facts are there and it is a fundamental problem that is diminishing America's standing in the global arena.
As the Princeton Review study (and many others) has shown, the dumbing-down of America is working. What bothers me most is what the final outcome of this will be.
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» RE: Simple explanation . . .Just look how long it took for Americans to say. "enough."
Posted by: Lauren
» RE: Simple explanation . . .
Posted by: Bibsisis
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Posted by: Bob Graham Las Vegas on Nov 12, 2008 7:08 AM
Current rating: Not yet rated [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
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» RE: THESE PEOPLE THINK IT IS THE 60 PERCENT WHO ARE WRONG
Posted by: Lauren
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Posted by: Noor on Nov 12, 2008 7:09 AM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
GO HERE TO UNDERSTAND MORE! LEARN THE TRUTH OF THIS IMPORTANT ISSUE
With an illiterate, uneducated American citizenry, unable to understand their world, it's no wonder that a fascist cabal took over America.
It's no accident that schools have slowly eroded & the intelligence of the average American has become so debilitated. American learning has plummeted & public school performance has fallen since the 1950 because it was planned that way.
What goes on in society is the result of planning of its rulers; they create precisely the social, psychological, economic, & ideological conditions which will realize their goal of wealth for themselves & impoverishment for the working class.
Moneyed interests seek to demolish American traditions of democracy, plotting to destroy the enlightening "diffusion of knowledge & the free exercise of reason."
Those who place presidents, senators, & representatives in power, through the use of their fortunes, are the same interests that have deliberately destroyed education. The Rockefellers, Fords, Morgans, Browns, Harrimans, Du Ponts, et nauseum, want obedient, efficient workers, not thinkers!
"In our dream, we have limitless resources, and the people yield themselves with perfect docility to our molding hand. THE PRESENT EDUCATIONAL CONVENTIONS fade from our minds; &, unhampered by tradition, we work our own good will upon a grateful & responsive folk. We shall not try to make these people or any of their children into philosophers or men of learning or science. We are not to raise up from among them authors, orators, poets, or men of letters. We shall not search for embryo great artists, painters, musicians. Nor will we cherish even the humbler ambition to raise up from among them lawyers, doctors, preachers, politicians, statesmen, of whom we now have ample supply." ~ Rockefeller
Beginning in the early part of the 1900's, these families began to create a pseudo-educational system which produces students unable to comprehend key concepts & factors as "freedom," "government of the people," "critical thinking," etc.
"The economic well-being of the nation depends on the presence of a large number of men who are content to labor hard all day long. Because men are naturally lazy they will not work unless forced by necessity to do so. The education of the poor threatens to rob the nation of their productivity. . . Every hour those poor people spend at their books is so much time lost to society. Going to school in comparison to working is idleness." ~ de Mandeville
As education is subverted into mere training, three essentials of intelligence are being lost:Critical thinking,Self-awareness,Critical consciousness.
We must develop a critical consciousness in all who are oppressed by this new imperialistic strategy of globalism. We're up against many obstacles: ignorant of our oppression, no solidarity among oppressed people, loss of a common tradition of democracy & human rights, indifference of oppressed people to their situation!
America is a combat zone where the War Against Intelligence is constantly being waged. Unfortunately, the rulers are winning: Americans are progressively losing ability to understand what is happening in the world around them. And sadly, many are proud of their ignorance, distrusting intelligence & calling it "elitism" as if it were a dirty thing.
We must awaken to this horror & recreate, if possible, a public education system which will become the means to transmit to future generations an understanding of the hidden meaning of events & lost democratic concepts.
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» RE: The Deliberate Creation of American Illiteracy
Posted by: Tom Tele
» RE: Pol Pot Cambodia 1972-1975. Khemr Rouge
Posted by: Crazy H
» RE: The Deliberate Creation of American Illiteracy
Posted by: rinthy
» RE: The Deliberate Creation of American Illiteracy
Posted by: Bibsisis
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Posted by: zooeyhall on Nov 12, 2008 7:12 AM
Current rating: Not yet rated [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Sally replied: "My first (and now ex) husband was a Harvard law school graduate. He was top of his class, president of his fraternity, had a Mensa IQ"...etc.
Then there was a pause and Sally suddenly exclaimed "... and boy was he a REAL STINKER!!!"
Remember that some of the worst Nazis were educated and informed people also.
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Posted by: nutsack on Nov 12, 2008 5:29 AM
Current rating: 3 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
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Posted by: Karina on Nov 12, 2008 7:30 AM
Current rating: Not yet rated [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Without any financial assistance, and never having had any money, some of us could not see the feasibility of undertaking tens of thousands of dollars in debt. How can you see paying all that money when you've never had any money to begin with?
Now I need to get back to reading One Day in the Life of Ivan Denisovich.
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Posted by: sureshot45 on Nov 12, 2008 7:32 AM
Current rating: 4 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
exactly. what good is an education, being able to read and process information, if you never use it? might as well have saved yourself some time, and the government some money, and dropped out of school at 8.
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» RE: chooses not to read or cant read..some thing
Posted by: DaBear
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Posted by: Romantic Violence on Nov 12, 2008 7:36 AM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
1789
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» RE: Now I know that the more I know the more I don't know.
Posted by: DaBear
» RE: Now I know..
Posted by: Bibsisis
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Posted by: Redrum on Nov 12, 2008 8:00 AM
Current rating: Not yet rated [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
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» RE: I like Chris Hedges but...
Posted by: VZEQICVA
» RE: I like Chris Hedges but...
Posted by: DaBear
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Posted by: vkobaya1 on Nov 12, 2008 8:02 AM
Current rating: Not yet rated [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
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Posted by: rleslie66 on Nov 12, 2008 8:13 AM
Current rating: 4 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
I guess public school was much better when I graduated K-12, in 1956. We took geography in grade school, and again in high school.
There is not a doubt in my mind that all 30 members of my 8th grade class, knew that Africa, was not a country.
This nation is a cesspool of ignorance.
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» RE: Ignorance and Ms. Palin
Posted by: VZEQICVA
» RE: Ignorance and Ms. Palin
Posted by: DaBear
» RE: Ignorance and Ms. Palin
Posted by: Adastra
Comments are closed-
Posted by: VZEQICVA on Nov 12, 2008 8:14 AM
Current rating: 4 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
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» RE: XCUSE THE INTERRUPTION
Posted by: DaBear
» RE: XCUSE THE INTERRUPTION
Posted by: Basenjis
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Posted by: Tom Tele on Nov 12, 2008 8:20 AM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
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» RE: "except for all others"
Posted by: Crazy H
» RE: How about this - all voters need to pass a cognitive test to unlock the ballot machine?
Posted by: Jasonix
» RE: How about this - all voters need to pass a cognitive test to unlock the ballot machine?
Posted by: Basenjis
» Plato's fear was that voters could be bought and paid for...
Posted by: Sojourner
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Posted by: Crazy H on Nov 12, 2008 8:22 AM
Current rating: 4 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
> Religion teaches people to confuse facts and opinions.
> It teaches people to blindly follow authority without question.
> It teaches people to follow arbitrary rules.
> It teaches people that there are higher principles than those we can see with our own, two eyes.
> It teaches people to ignore science in favor of dogma.
> It teaches people to hate other people without reason.
. . . . . . . . . . . . .
There's a reason why pug-lickin's get along so well with religious types. It makes them gullible, controllable, and malleable followers of anyone who speaks with an authoritative tone. They will willfully ignore any inconvenient facts and do as they're told.
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» RE: eligion's Role
Posted by: Lauren
» RE: eligion's Role
Posted by: Crazy H
» Only authoritarian religion fits your over-simplified description.
Posted by: Sojourner
» RE: Only authoritarian religion fits your over-simplified description.
Posted by: Crazy H
» The sun gets my nods.
Posted by: Sojourner
Comments are closed-
Posted by: DCostello2 on Nov 12, 2008 8:27 AM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Hasn't anyone learned??? The government LIES and the press repeats it. Educate yourselves, people. Read a book. Start with 'Manufacturing Consent'.
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Posted by: bnays on Nov 12, 2008 8:35 AM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
My real problem is with them acting like valuing education is a bad thing. I realize they have been made to feel bad by who they call the “intellectual elite” because they did not go to college and work low paying labor jobs. But thinking it would be better to put an uneducated dolt like Bush or Palin in charge just because a smart person made you feel bad once is ridiculous. Racism also played a huge part in this. A lot of them hated Obama for his race and that just made their rage explode when the smear campaign started. You will never see people become as hateful towards a white candidate.
I also wonder how much religion plays into this. Liberals who question authority tend to be atheists or agnostic, while conservatives who tend to take things their leaders say at face value are strict Christians, where questioning is really looked down upon.
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» RE: I also wonder how much religion plays into this.
Posted by: Lauren
» RE: I also wonder how much religion plays into this.
Posted by: Crazy H
» RE: Conservatives aren't dumb per se, just self-centered
Posted by: atritium
» RE: Conservatives aren't dumb per se, just self-centered
Posted by: mjglow
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Posted by: Spiritgirl on Nov 12, 2008 8:38 AM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
In American life today we the people have allowed ourselves to be distracted by: way too much tv, 30 second sound-bites, religion (as opposed to faith), an aborted education system, falling standards! As more and more "newpapers" have consolidated and many of these "journalists" have joined the "elite" ranks no one wants to really cover the news, that would require work/research/analytic processes! The 30 second image/sound-bite works so much better to get your message across, than to really believe that someone would actually read a paper!
Americans have always worked hard, so we can't blame it on the fact that we are working too hard. One of the problems is that we have become lazy, to read requires your brain to work at analyzing what you are reading! To actually think requires that use the intellect that we have been given, and that's a dangerous thing for some people! Really, does anyone even understand the dark days before the "enlightenment"? Or how about that "Inquisition", or the wars that have been waged, or justifications for slavery? All things people said were justified by God! We are supposed to be moving forward mentally /emotionally not backward!
Maybe it's because people have allowed fear to take ahold of their lives, maybe emotionally they have been stunted, whatever it is, it is crippling us as a society! We have to get out of our comfort zones! I think God by whatever name you choose to call spirit is important, however, I don't think even God wants people to behave stupidly by not thinking because how does that honor God?!
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» RE: And, you're surprised......
Posted by: VZEQICVA
» RE: And, you're surprised......
Posted by: Lauren
» RE: And, you're surprised......
Posted by: DaBear
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Posted by: om santi on Nov 12, 2008 8:40 AM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
How about McCain, whose campaign was said as "brutal" by Sarah Palin herself (in Yahoo News yesterday)? And she said " I know much (of what is said) were lies" ?
Well, if McCain's campaign consists of many lies, paranoia impregnating (about Obama being unpatriotic, terrorist etc), sowing hatred,etc.,IF mcCain wins, maybe you WOULD SAY THAT MCCAIN DID NOT LIE TO ILLITERATE PEOPLE (who believe his tactics that Obama is a Muslim etc) TO WIN ?
YOU WOULD SAY ONLY OBAMA DOES THAT ?
Thanks to making illiterate readers who cannot discern lies or truth believe you too (how about Republican Senators or Generals endorsing Obama, maybe they are illiterate too?)
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Posted by: marcd on Nov 12, 2008 8:52 AM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Also, as an aside, Roger Waters borrowed from this book for his album of a few years ago called Amused to Death. Good stuff.
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» Brave New World
Posted by: pdxjoe
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Posted by: wildbill on Nov 12, 2008 8:54 AM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Maybe both groups are half-right
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» RE: Here's the problem: Rove's rules bred distrust
Posted by: Lauren
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Posted by: JayHaden on Nov 12, 2008 9:22 AM
Current rating: 3 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
The marketing class is an early adopter of technologies that reach and control more people. As those techologies become more complex in their race to create alternative realities -- realities as context for consumption -- costs of production increase. Even with more sophisticated tools, marketers necessarily resort to sketches, cliches, stereotypes and cartoons as the media for transmitting their stories. Cases in point: the simplicity of staging radio drama versus television productions; the cool emotion of Shorty Rogers playing on the set of Peter Gunn versus today's electronic thunka-loops, the quick response of radio news versus cumbersome TV news, our imagination romping through books versus the fencing in of our minds by TV (is that why they are called channels?).
Before TV, people were more literate as a matter of necessity. Read the letters of Civil War soldiers, many of whom had little education, and feel their feeling for language and thought. They may still have not had the intellectual tools to counteract the eloquent propagandists of the day, but they seemed to have loved the written medium for its access to ideas and information.
The difference between reading and watching TV is that the library offers the possibility of self-education. The content of TV is far too limiting to provide that option to the same degree.
I'm now afraid we have crossed the Rubicon of national learning policy with an economic stimulus that, in effect, invests us with new flat screen TVs but not new schools. For further proof see how national communication policy has systematically given away the air waves to corporations so they may sell us more crap, calling it news.
The bright spot is Studs Terkel's admonition to never give up on people. Those who write off dumbed-down America will be surprised at how intelligent people are when engaged. Maybe future energy conservation efforts will also help break the magnetic grip of TV on our ability to engage with others.
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» RE: It's the TV, stoopid!
Posted by: ATH
» RE: It's the TV, stoopid!
Posted by: babs
» RE: It's the TV, stoopid!
Posted by: 6399
» RE: It's the TV, stoopid!
Posted by: 6399
Comments are closed-
Posted by: ATH on Nov 12, 2008 9:25 AM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
"seperator" as the author makes it out to be
at all. That only happens, usually, when we're still children or teens, and usually only when the "intelligent" child is purposefully using long or difficult words around other children
whom he/she knows will not understand these words. The usual result is that the "intelligent" child, especially when male, gets his butt kicked..which makes one wonder how intelligent is the child?
I was a precocious teen. I started reading heavily around 9 years old, because I found I
truly enjoyed it, it increased my vocabulary,
and I could visit, in my mind, far-off places and have wonderful adventures that seemed to me more real than the flat pictures on the T.V. because this show was taking place in my mind, where there were no special effects limitations, or any other, for that matter. This was back in 1977-'78, too, remember.
And don't get me wrong--I still watched T.V. But the more I read, the more inane and banal seemed the shows on T.V.
I quickly found out that others didn't like to be around someone who knew the meaning of the word "internecine" or any others that were
longer than about six letters...So, I didn't
speak that way. I soon found myself realizing
that it does make one sound like a stuck-up prick to say "this will be an internecine course for us to take" rather than just saying, "this is a bad idea for all of us."
I kept the long words for my essays, and such, where they would both be understood and
were often actually neccesary to convey my meaning.
I also learned to fight.
I learned to talk to girls.
There's a lot of knowledge in the world, and
I've seen college grads. be suckered by street
hustlers and con artists. Most intellectuals wouldn't survive in the street any better than the guy on the street would fit in at an Ivy League College, right?
But if you can learn from both worlds, then
you are prepared.
What truly seperates us, and what I think will lead to true discontent, is class..it just doesn't do having these private bankers and CEOs making 35 million a year, while others aren't clearing 20 thousand! This is the
real struggle. And it's not that these people are smarter than we are, they just happen to be members to an exclusive club, and know a
few highly guarded secrets, and have money to make money. Yet, they still aren't happy. They don't want to pay their share of taxes. It's like the more money they make, the greedier they become.
I'm very well read, but I don't show off. I
speak as everyone else does, with some exceptions...I don't use double negatives, and
I still try to keep my language gramatically correct, but I don't go around using long words or trying to impress anyone.
Finally, this "dumbing down" of America is
not the fault of Americans. We have terrible schools for the most part..there's always violence...Kids these days are too busy watching their backs at many schools to lose themselves in a book. The government wants the
majority of Americans to be not just illiterate, but to not be able to employ critical thinking, because then they might see through the bullshit ALL these politicians put
out.
Our financial system will eventually collapse, and relatively soon, unless we drastically change things. This is due to the fact that we have a fiat, or unbacked, currency, and so inflation will continue to rise. Inflation is NOT the price of services and goods going up, but the purchasing power of our dollar going down. Since the FED System was adopted, our currency has been devalued by 96%. Eventually, it will be devalued by 100%.
To anyone who is interested, I recommend "The Money Masters-How International Bankers Gained Control of America."
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Posted by: ABetterFuture on Nov 12, 2008 9:42 AM
Current rating: Not yet rated [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
The focus on "getting us into power" has largely superseded "I want this ________ to happen, above all." I'd like a simplified tax code, my government the hell out of our private lives (marriage, repeal of the Patriot Act), the freedom for folks to correct their personal failures in whatever way they deem fit (abortion, bankruptcy) and returns them to a level of productivity that I struggle to achieve or higher, and equal opportunity for all. Find a demoboob or republicrat that advocates those principles, and I'll eat my hat, and post screenshots.
I voted for candidates closest to my idea of freedom and liberty, did you do the same? Happy if you did, thoughtful about why if you didn't. If you were tempted to vote Green (McKinney) did you vote demoboob because you were a'fear'd of your fellow voting McDuh? If you favored Ron Paul because of his ideas on liberty, did you vote instead for Obiden for his differences on the usefulness of perpetual wars for America? Curious questions await those that "settled", and I'm glad if you didn't. Obama marries union workers dependent on sales of SUV's nicely to Green interests; McCain marries corporate interests to christian family values equally as well...depending on your comprehension of the English language, I suppose.
We've allowed our electorate to be turned into a 'Confederacy of Dunces', by choice, and not--perhaps--by design. Duh absolute winners this time--democrats--will hopefully behave in a manner that will benefit the country more than the absolute power Duh republicans exercised. We can only hope this will happen!
But maybe this is, after all, by design, too. P.T. Barnum had a lot to say about collections of suckers.
Hail Mary for the touchdown, anyone?
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Posted by: Ignatz deFyre on Nov 12, 2008 9:46 AM
Current rating: 4 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
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» RE: Marshall McLuhan foretold it.
Posted by: babs
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Posted by: nopuppy on Nov 12, 2008 9:56 AM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
But the title posits another huge problem that is not addressed in the essay: namely, the vast majority here who live in a fantasy world of misinformation, propaganda, and unexamined belief systems. Their problem isn't just that they have silly notions and unfactual "facts" running around in their skulls, but that they are bound and determined to hold on to those silly notions and unfactual "facts" with a death grip, because they have for some bizarre reason invested them with emotional ideas of self. Why, for instance, does a person I know become enraged if I question his statement that "illegal immigrants are draining Social Security"? When I finally convince him of the facts, he does back down (reluctantly), but he's still resentful. Why? Good grief, if I find out something I thought was wrong, I'm thrilled to get that wrong idea out of my head.
I discovered that several factoids I'd accreted about McCain and Palin were false. Well, I stopped using them as arguments (their were so many good ones, it didn't bother me at all).
This is a human problem, of course, but it has been massively aggravated in recent times in this country by the likes of Rush Limbaugh, Bill O'Reilly, and others of their ilk, who have made hostile, angry opinion and factoids the currency of public debate; the whole thing then fed by the political propagandists who like it, because then they don't have to talk about real issues; and the media spreading it far and wide, because they like nasty crap that keeps viewers/listeners tuned in (I myself hate screaming ranting maniacs, so I don't watch/listen to that crap).
Can we bring our population back to a place where reasoned public discourse is possible? Well, maybe we can. But it will take much effort on everyone's part. And most of all, it will take the example from the top: maybe with Obama this can happen. It sure couldn't happen under an administration that profits mightily by having a populace that couldn't tell truth from lies.
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» RE: Can we bring our population back to a place where reasoned public discourse is possible?
Posted by: Lauren
Comments are closed-
Posted by: AMERICAN VETERAN on Nov 12, 2008 9:57 AM
Current rating: 4 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
>>>>AS I wrote.
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» RE: To "matti"
Posted by: babs
» RE: To "matti"
Posted by: DaBear
» Babs: Chavez is president of Argentina
Posted by: 6399
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Posted by: cbishopp on Nov 12, 2008 10:02 AM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Primarily Americans don't produce ANYTHING. In order to be fed, clothed, entertained, or to get anything else they have to go to an outside source. Few people produce their own food and everyone has a vehicle. Our homes and our appliances are powered by the grid. We need to constantly buy pills to maintain our health and so much business has become digital that we almost don't need currency anymore.
Of course this is not just America, this is now the world, this is globalization. Worldwide ownership by the producers and keepers of vital resources have trained us. Keeping our educational system barely functioning doesn't hurt either.
Smart or stupid your ability to be governed lies in your bite not your bark.
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» Get your facts straight.
Posted by: yellow
» RE: Get your facts straight.
Posted by: cbishopp
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Posted by: violawall on Nov 12, 2008 10:09 AM
Current rating: 2 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Vi
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» RE: Who's been in control of most schools! Democrats!
Posted by: Quannah
» RE: Who's been in control of most schools! Democrats!
Posted by: Beck
» RE: Who's been in control of most schools! Democrats!
Posted by: DaBear
» RE: Who's been in control of most schools! Democrats!
Posted by: DaBear
» RE: Who's been in control of most schools! Democrats!
Posted by: jctarzan
Comments are closed-
Posted by: MartianBachelor on Nov 12, 2008 10:28 AM
Current rating: 1 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
> to and manipulate this illiteracy and irrationalism to his advantage
Can you say "limit campaign spending"?
Somehow this little matter of six or seven hundred million dollars gets overlooked when everyone's talking about the evils of deregulation and the concomitant need to have more regulation. Somehow I don't think politicians are going to vote to place controls on themselves. And Big Media, which is the recipient of all that Big Money, is not going to do anything other than run the occasional "ain't it awful?" story.
Thanks to Obama/Emanuel, campaign finance control is dead for probably, oh, a generation. He's such a progessive who appeals to the best and brightest with high ideals...
Just in case you somehow managed to miss it, here's one of his ardent zombies.
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» RE: Gee, maybe Thanks to Obama/Emanuel, campaign finance control is dead for probably, oh, a generat
Posted by: Lauren
» There would be no need for campaign spending limits...
Posted by: pdxjoe
» RE: Gee, maybe there's a solution, if we third party members organize and achieve our goal
Posted by: Beck
» RE: Gee, maybe there's a solution, if we third party members organize and achieve our goal
Posted by: 6399
» RE: Gee, maybe there's a solution, if we third party members organize and achieve our goal
Posted by: maxpayne
» But you and the blind Demos along with the brain-damaged Repugs don't give 3rd parties a CHANCE !
Posted by: maxpayne
» RE:You voted for Obama, remember? Actually, almost all of you did, and you're being frauds here.
Posted by: Beck
» RE: You voted for Obama, remember? Actually, almost all of you did, and you're being frauds here.
Posted by: Mel H.
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Posted by: bosunj on Nov 12, 2008 10:31 AM
Current rating: 3 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
GET OUT WHILE YOU STILL CAN!!
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» RE: Stupid Americant's
Posted by: using
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Posted by: Mishma on Nov 12, 2008 10:36 AM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
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» RE: Mishma
Posted by: Lauren
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Posted by: Reader11722 on Nov 12, 2008 10:40 AM
Current rating: 1 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
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» The real divide is anti-semites vs. the rest of us.
Posted by: yellow
» you can be anti-Zionist & not anti-semitic
Posted by: sunspot
» RE: you can be anti-Zionist & not anti-semitic
Posted by: yellow
Comments are closed-
Posted by: 6399 on Nov 12, 2008 10:47 AM
Current rating: 3 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
The author has made some very astute observations about our seemingly inherent suggestibility to infinitely malleable messages of, oh - I don't know, let's say "Hope" & "Change" or even "Original Maverick". That creepy halo that so often adorned Obama's head on magazine covers was a subtle play on feeble minded Americans who actually began to see some sort of deity embodied in a junior senator from Illinois.
In the same vein, right wingers were convinced they saw their John Wayne/Dirty Harry projections of a great (war hero) protector and terrorist killer encapsulated in the elder statesman from Arizona. Who knows what the fuck they saw in Palin? An inflatable doll and baby dispenser? Anyway, this article touches upon subjects that have not been raised since the great Marshall Mcluhan did so many years ago.
"The other America, which constitutes the majority, exists in a non-reality-based belief system. This America, dependent on skillfully manipulated images for information, has severed itself from the literate, print-based culture. It cannot differentiate between lies and truth. It is informed by simplistic, childish narratives and cliches. It is thrown into confusion by ambiguity, nuance and self-reflection."
"American political campaigns, which have learned to speak in the comforting epistemology of images, eschew real ideas and policy for cheap slogans and reassuring personal narratives. Political propaganda now masquerades as ideology. Political campaigns have become an experience. They do not require cognitive or self-critical skills. They are designed to ignite pseudo-religious feelings of euphoria, empowerment and collective salvation. Campaigns that succeed are carefully constructed psychological instruments that manipulate fickle public moods, emotions and impulses, many of which are subliminal. They create a public ecstasy that annuls individuality and fosters a state of mindlessness."
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» RE: This piece summed up the Obama campaign/cult of personality nicely . .
Posted by: Quannah
» Alot of Nader supporters must have succumbed to Obama's charms. Or there's a Nader effect. . .
Posted by: Beck
» It's getting pretty troll-ish in here . . .
Posted by: 6399
» RE: It's getting pretty troll-ish in here . . .
Posted by: babs
» RE: It's getting pretty troll-ish in here . . .
Posted by: GuitarBill
» The only reason a lot of us otherwise Nader voters gave up on Obama is simple.
Posted by: maxpayne
» RE: The only reason a lot of us; you didn't give up on Obama. Hardly any of you did.
Posted by: Beck
» RE: The only reason a lot of us; you didn't give up on Obama. Hardly any of you did.
Posted by: GuitarBill
» RE: Alot of Nader supporters must have succumbed to Obama's charms. Or there's a Nader effect. . .
Posted by: DaBear
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Posted by: pollen8 on Nov 12, 2008 11:23 AM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
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Posted by: login@bugmenot.com on Nov 12, 2008 11:55 AM
Current rating: 2 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Neither did I. I go to the library. You speak of "reason", and then suggest that we should pay for something we can get for free? Heh! :-)
Maybe we don't read as much as we should, but this figure doesn't say anything about that.
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» RE: I don't buy books
Posted by: Beck
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Posted by: leighsure on Nov 12, 2008 12:25 PM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
I believe that our corporate-hijacked culture is responsible for the message that words and ideas are less important than image and passion. If you can't take the time to provide a model for what civil discourse and debate should look like, then you can expect to have no effect on the headlong rush to the near total devaluation of education and reason. Words have meaning and power, but if people and corporations continue to warp, bend and co-opt them, you can kiss any hope of a democracy that requires a well-informed electorate goodbye.
Stand up for reason by being reasonable.
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Posted by: Juven on Nov 12, 2008 12:48 PM
Current rating: 3 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Change Now
Country first
Yes we can
Mindless chanting of idiotic slogans that mean nothing. What does "Imagine Hope" mean?
Imagine=abatract concept
Hope=abstract concept
=nothing.
No thought required-- Yes we can...
Can what?
Heard this in Obama's speech: "the cause"
What cause?
And Obama is going to lead us "there"-- Where the hell is "there"?
like mass hypnosis...
I guess it can only get worse if two million people more who are iliterate are being added to the population every year.
With the no child left behind act, which encourages reading through a program called AR, and rewards the students points for passing shallow quizes on the texts that have been choosen for the progrqam, and those with the highest points are given parties where the kids drink soft drinks and watch, duh duh, films... great reward.
My family is most certainly in the 20 percent who buys books and I better make sure to pass this love and ability to my children...
Sad times in the U.S.
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» RE:Slogans for some reason for others
Posted by: Edward George
» RE: Slogans for some reason for others
Posted by: DaBear
» RE: Saw this in the election
Posted by: babs
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Posted by: login@bugmenot.com on Nov 12, 2008 1:03 PM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
I believe this is not literate vs illiterate. I believe it is those who know what they are doing vs those who do not. Of course this is highly subjective and a moving target. Book learning does not equate to intelligence. I am afraid that those who cannot think for themselves are going to doom everyone.
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Posted by: shaynafay on Nov 12, 2008 1:34 PM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
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» Don't look to USA for good schooling
Posted by: Pissed Off Woman
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Posted by: DaBear on Nov 12, 2008 2:03 PM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
This is precisely what I was feeling frustrated about as I listened to McKinney's campaign that hammered away at substance, actually defining what "hope" and "change" meant to a dwindling audience while Obama merely said the words without articulating anything vis-a-vis their meaning and yet attracting mammoth interest... it was like the flip side of Bush-the-Chimp's prattling about "9/11," "terrizm," "mission accomplish'," etc. and people cheered like those moronic repetitions meant volumes. "Hope," "change,"... blabbaty blah blah, emptiness.
damn there are days when I really feel sickened by 'Merkuh, the Land of the Stoopid.
This is what one-size-fits-all, NOCLB, standards-based eddicashun bestows upon a nation. My grandfather used to say, "If you wanna be smart, you gotta know where those facts and figures come from. Ignore the concepts at your peril. If you only learn the facts and figures you'll look good, but looking good never fixed things, never solved problems and sure as hell never did anyone any good worth a damn."
So we have a nation of "hopefuls" after 8 devastating years of extreme stoopidity who are going to produce... well, just a nicer version or the same craptasm that got us here. Meanwhile the solutions to real issues and problems are buried into the bosoms of the literati. No nerds, please. No artists please. No intellectuals, please. No leaders, please...unless they're the kind who can make their owning-class massas lots of cash.
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» “Campaigns that succeed are…” the same as ones that fail?
Posted by: Sojourner
» RE: “Campaigns that succeed are…” the same as ones that fail?
Posted by: DaBear
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Posted by: Crazy H on Nov 12, 2008 2:40 PM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
In today's high schools and colleges, the jocks still rule. Brawn is emphasized over brain. Chess, debate, and the Honor Society are all marginalized. The dean's list may be published, but gets nowhere near the press that a touchdown pass does.
A pro athlete makes an order of magnitude more than a doctor or university president.
Is this a reflection of our actual values, or is it the modern equivalent of bread & circuses? Foisted upon us by the PTB and reinforced by the MSM?
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» RE: ...and now, on to sports
Posted by: VZEQICVA
» RE: ...and now, on to sports
Posted by: Dankhank
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Posted by: spike107 on Nov 12, 2008 2:46 PM
Current rating: 4 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
For one thing, the upper class continues to prefer its own short-term interests to reality, and, hence, to display far worse political preferences than any other group. I also think downtrodden women are actually pretty intelligent as a group, despite their lack of cultural assets. Men are the second-rank douchebags, if you want to go there. And I think that cuts across educational lines, too. Upper-class men are a disaster, intellectually and politically.
I also think it's pretty close to scandalously unfair to say that the ignorati have "severed [themselves] from the literate, print-based culture." When were they ever tied into it in the first place? Our schools weren't exactly egalitarian when TV came onto the scene, and still are not -- not by a long shot.
And, as James W. Loewen shows in _Lies My Teacher Told Me_, what has passed for a good schooling in this immensely propagandized madhouse hasn't exactly been what you'd call "reality-based," even when highly literate in technical terms.
Hedges is throwing darts on this one...
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Posted by: nfamous on Nov 12, 2008 4:33 PM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Furthermore illiteracy alone isn't enough to guarantee this self-destructive behavior of voting against one's interest. The people are usually from insular communities and small towns where there is a common set of beliefs that are never questionned. Those people may or may not be illiterate but there is tremendous pressure on them to conform to the behavior of others.
These people need something to feel proud of since educated liberals people are always making fun of them. They hate that and liberals should stop that. Intelligent people are not worth more than unintelligent people as humans. We are worth more to corporations because we have value to them but being intelligent and educated does not increase one's inherent value to society. Perhaps it makes you think it does but in reality it doesn't.
These insular small town folks stick together against what they see is the corrupted outside world of big city life. They don't want to hear about others' opinions or be tolerant of other views because they aren't used to that. To them we are the enemy and it is very easy to get them to blame blacks and Mexicans for their problems when it is really corporations and the elite screwing them over.
The question really is how much time and effort are we going to spend trying to change these people? If they are illiterate or uneducated or both then it is going to be even difficult at best to communicate with them because they respond to images and code words. I don't want to call them Pavlovian but in fact they are. I don't think liberals want to get into the game of reconditioning brainwashed people to be brainwashed in our favor. If we do that we are no better than Republicans. These people have to wake themselves up or forever remain asleep.
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» Reminds me of Reisman's other-directed, tradition-directed, inner-directed typology.
Posted by: Sojourner
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Posted by: ece421 on Nov 12, 2008 6:13 PM
Current rating: 1 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
They are as common as "greenies" who believe they are better than everyone else, even though they take trips around the world three times a year, tripling their "carbon footprint".
To imply that conservatives are somehow inferior in education to liberals is elitist and wrong.
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Posted by: willymack on Nov 12, 2008 6:27 PM
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» RE: The Eloi and the Moorlocks
Posted by: Pissed Off Woman
» RE: The Eloi and the Moorlocks
Posted by: TheNamelessCity
» RE: The Eloi and the Moorlocks
Posted by: craighorowitz
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Posted by: yale on Nov 12, 2008 8:52 PM
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» RE: Any middle ground here?,
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» RE: Any middle ground here?,
Posted by: yale
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Posted by: oleson on Nov 13, 2008 12:13 AM
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» RE: There are two kinds of people ...
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Posted by: FreeAmerica on Nov 13, 2008 4:56 AM
Current rating: 2 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Not all democrats are college educated metrosexuals with 190 IQs. The great intellectual hotbeds of DC, Detroit, New Orleans, and many other similarly depressed areas are consistently bright blue.
Likewise not all of us country folks are bush kin or trailer trash either. Some of us hold stock brokers licenses, went to school, run our own businesses, have houses without wheels, and even take the blue pill come election day.
Here is a fun thought though.. Ask anyone if they know what the federalist papers are. I win a lot of drinks when no one down the bar has ever heard of them.
If you haven't a thorough working knowledge of them, loose the smug. You are not qualified to submit an educated vote or political opinion without a working knowledge of the basic elements that are the foundation of our constitution and country. It is like trying to do cubed roots without knowing addition.
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» RE: The smug is so thick in here you can't hardly see
Posted by: TheNamelessCity
» RE: The smug is so thick in here you can't hardly see
Posted by: beijaflor
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Posted by: the baron on Nov 13, 2008 9:09 AM
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Posted by: FundamentallyFlawed on Nov 13, 2008 9:49 AM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Fundamentally Flawed: Straight-Up Stupidity from Supporters of Prop 8
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» RE: Oh, funniest website ever! Highly recommended. I have to add one of the pearls
Posted by: FundamentallyFlawed
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Posted by: Wichita on Nov 13, 2008 10:17 AM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Then this article, the very next in the posting, argues that illiterate voters, instead, tend to be gullible, white Republicans! One distinction we can verify is that college-educated voters are more likely to be at least liberal than those with only high school education. But that's probably the only sure mark.
And it's a mistake to start calling Republican voters lazy, illiterate, stupid. They are enmeshed in their ideologies to the point of not being able to hear "us," but I think there are many lefties in the same blindness. Thomas Frank probably has more insight into the real distinctions: see What's the Matter with Kansas among others.
Moreover, if we really believe they are mistaken, calling them names won't help us in persuasive communication.
I especially deplore the threads that make the assumption that most home-schoolers are reactionary. I admire many friends who have chosen home schooling and their extremely liberal, free-thinking, focussed children.
Any short article that seeks to account for ideology only through quick rough categorizations will probably fail to recognize the complexity of social ideologies.
Wichita
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Posted by: Mandelbrot on Nov 13, 2008 10:18 AM
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In the 18th century, perhaps Voltaire was the most famous man among those who read. But then very, very few even new their letters. The Lincoln-Douglas debates were a defining moment in the political thought of America. But they were delivered to an electorate that had to pass literacy tests to vote in the first place. What we are seeing now, rather than the dumbing of society, is an expansion of societal discourse, where all voices are joining the debate, even those who don't understand what proper debate is.
We certainly have a long way to go. I, too, wish that political campaigns could be based on rationally developed ideas, rather than slogans. But to do this, we would regress to a time when a large portion of the country was simply ignored by those who ruled them. We must take the next step as a country to embrace education, so that our discourse may include all members and be held at a cerebral level rather than an instinctual level.
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Posted by: 24&somuchmore on Nov 13, 2008 1:07 PM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Social critic Neil Postman contrasts the worlds of 1984 and Brave New World in the foreword of his 1986 book Amusing Ourselves to Death. He writes:
What Orwell feared were those who would ban books. What Huxley feared was that there would be no reason to ban a book, for there would be no one who wanted to read one. Orwell feared those who would deprive us of information. Huxley feared those who would give us so much that we would be reduced to passivity and egoism. Orwell feared that the truth would be concealed from us. Huxley feared the truth would be drowned in a sea of irrelevance. Orwell feared we would become a captive culture. Huxley feared we would become a trivial culture, preoccupied with some equivalent of the feelies, the orgy porgy, and the centrifugal bumblepuppy. As Huxley remarked in Brave New World Revisited, the civil libertarians and rationalists who are ever on the alert to oppose tyranny "failed to take into account man's almost infinite appetite for distractions." In 1984, Orwell added, people are controlled by inflicting pain. In Brave New World, they are controlled by inflicting pleasure. In short, Orwell feared that what we hate will ruin us. Huxley feared that what we love will ruin us.
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» RE: Amusing ourselves to death......1984 vs BraveNewWorld
Posted by: Shey
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Posted by: mike montagne on Nov 13, 2008 5:32 PM
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Haven't had such a good read since... maybe Spooner?
THANK YOU!
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Posted by: atritium on Nov 13, 2008 10:55 PM
Current rating: 1 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
1."There are no absolutes".
The statement claims absolute knowledge while saying there is none, thus contradicts itself. Are there no absolutes or are there people who PREFER there be no absolutes, so they can do what they want?
2."We can't know anything with certainty".
Except, it seems, this one belief. Which, as an example, is self-refuting and meaningless. It asserts an absolute truth it claims one is not possible. Just tangled words.
3."There is no truth".
If true, the statement is an example contradicting it's assertion. Another impossible idea that excludes itself.
4."Only empirically verifiable/falsifiable statements have any meaning".
This idea cannot be verified and says it can't simply be assumed true. It is thus impossible.
5. Capitalism vs. collectivism. Capitalism recognizes no central organizing committee can have enough information to make proper choices, even if there was consensus on what the proper decisions are.
Capitalism allocates the decisions to hundreds of millions of deciders who optimize decisions based on their situation, for which they DO have information on. No central committe, Federal Reserve, President, or Congress can match that performance over years.
Taxation is slavery; we spend about 50% of the year working for the government, to pay all the state federal and sales taxes. Everytime that increases toward 100%, we move closer to a slave society.
6. Homosexuality is advocated with the argument it is enlightened to think what consenting adults do is fine, as long as no one is hurt.
So it can be asked WHY there is a limit regarding no one being hurt? Who are you to impose those morals on me? If I want to hurt someone, who are you to impose your moral code on me?
Far from the literate/illiterate divide the author talks about, which does have some application, people spend $50K a year to send their kids to Ivy League school to be educated in the beliefs described above, which can't even be phrased without contradiction by the end of the sentence.
I sit at tables with PH.Ds who repeat the beliefs above, convinced of their brilliance and enlightenment, and within seconds leave them red-faced and stammering, when they recognize the gibberish they have incorporated ...
The public has elected as President someone for which they know little. Obama has not released state senate records in Illinois, medical records, college records, or an original birth certificate.
He seems to have been born in Hawaii, but nobody knows where. It's not clear who his father is (there are a couple candidates), and his US citizenship status is murky. As recently as Columbia law school aid applications, he indicated his religion was Islam and citizenship Kenyan.
He has said he chose his friends carefully to be "Marxists" and "post- structural feminists". Both are radically opposed to the US. He has had extensive interaction with terrorists and has not distanced himself from them.
He sat for 20 years in Rev. Wrights church listening to viciously anti-American "sermons" ("God damn America!") and didn't have a problem with it until found out while running for president.
His wife has said this was "the first time I've ever been proud of America" (i.e., when people voted for him). He has spoken in disparaging, bigoted terms of small-town Americans and "their religion" and guns.
His favorite reading material includes books welcoming the decline of American power, like "The Post-American World".
Despite this, a majority of the people who voted for him think of him as a moderate who is going to reduce their taxes.
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» I'd like to consider. Who did make those quotes? And please, tell about the red-faced PhDs
Posted by: Beck
» RE: I'd like to consider. Who did make those quotes? And please, tell about the red-faced PhDs
Posted by: atritium
» RE: I'd like to consider. Who did make those quotes? And please, tell about the red-faced PhDs
Posted by: mjglow
» RE: I'd like to consider. Who did make those quotes? And please, tell about the red-faced PhDs
Posted by: beijaflor
» wow...deep, man:)
Posted by: mjglow
» RE: wow...deep, man:)
Posted by: atritium
» Lack of absolutes is not an absolute.
Posted by: mjglow
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Posted by: Faded Green on Nov 13, 2008 11:38 PM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
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» RE: Lay off Obama
Posted by: Beck
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Posted by: critic1 on Nov 14, 2008 2:52 AM
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of which appears to be http://nces.ed.gov/pubs93/93275.pdf
That merely says "Translated into population terms, between 40 and 44 million adults nationwide demonstrated skills in the
lowest literacy level defined."
The term "lowest literacy level" doesn't really match the dictionary definition of "illiteracy". The term that Mr. Hedges is searching for is probably functional illiteracy.
I'd also point out that if this is the data he's making this assertion from, then 1992 strikes me as rather long ago. There is a 2003 NALS survey (which may well be worse) which is probably more appropriate.
In any case, this article needs to be amended to cite the primary source and clarify which definition of illiteracy he's referring to.
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Posted by: douglashoyt on Nov 14, 2008 5:47 AM
Current rating: 3 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Logic and religion cannot coexist. This philosophies are exclusive of each other.
One deals within the natural and rational; the other exists within the supernatural and irrational.
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» RE: Religion a major offender.
Posted by: atritium
» RE: eligion a major offender.
Posted by: Shey
» RE: Religion a major offender.
Posted by: atritium
» RE: eligion a major offender.
Posted by: mjglow
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Posted by: SEDGFLD on Nov 14, 2008 7:45 AM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
It's no longer just what we used to look at as being "educated" because an educated person can be a fool when it comes to common sense and a non-educated person, in the traditional sense, can have common sense.
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Posted by: rkudasik on Nov 14, 2008 8:09 AM
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I do take objection to your statement that the "Christian Right" are the primary audience that is falling into an image based society.
I consider myself a Christian. As in, I follow the Nicean Creed. However, I do not consider myself on the "Right."
My friends are christians as I am. As I try to be, they are incredibly literate. They reason. They debate. They question. I don't think it's fair to say that it's the christian right that is illiterate.
You say it's not income that is dividing the nation. I would disagree. I think that the "illiterate" are largely so because of money. They can't afford school. They are born into an environment that doesn't value education.
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Posted by: freegirard on Nov 15, 2008 2:22 PM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Two hundred years ago, Jefferson pointed out the the integral relationship with maintaining our democratic experiment, and education. President Obama and the rest of the government--and that includes We the People--need to put this near the top of our priority list.
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Posted by: l_double_e on Nov 15, 2008 6:03 PM
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Posted by: Raymond Emerson on Nov 15, 2008 8:05 PM
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Posted by: Raymond Emerson on Nov 15, 2008 8:33 PM
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Education doesn't create thinkers. Thinkers are where you find them. Thinkers find education convenient. Otherwise you spend your life inventing that idea or thing that has already been invented.
In the last 24 hours a gentlemen with a 6th grade education made this observation to me. As the price of oil drops the pressure to achieve alternate sources of also drops. His suggestion was that, perhaps, this was not entirely an accident. Monopolists always feel the need to protect their monopoly.
Bush and the NEOCONS were adamant about any oversight of the commodity markets. If the oil companies took their profits and bid up the international price of oil with them, the oil companies could still contend that the price of oil went up because of demand. They just misled you a little on who supplied the demand.
T. Boone Pickens has already backed down on the commercial viability of his wind farm. The compressed natural gas automobile is also a nonstarter. There is not enough profit to build the CNG filling stations. The foreign energy guys are already breaking our locals. The real question is whether energy self sufficiency can overcome orchestrated bargains.
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» RE: I CERTAINLY HOPE THAT OUR WRITER IS WRONG. BUT I FEAR THAT
Posted by: atritium
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Posted by: craighorowitz on Nov 16, 2008 4:40 AM
Current rating: 3 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
I better keep this post short, over 300 words and no one will read it.
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» RE: THE MARCHING MORONS
Posted by: atritium
» RE: THE MARCHING MORONS
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» RE: THE MARCHING MORONS
Posted by: atritium
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Posted by: mim.k on Nov 16, 2008 8:59 AM
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towards effective leadership and solutions. It is very frightening that we probably are in a no win situation, even though we have accomplished the task of finally electing a sane, intelligent leader with integrity. Our task will be to learn how to embrace those minds and bring them back to honesty, reflection, and the act of independent thinking. How do we do it?
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» RE: overwhelming and bleak
Posted by: atritium
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Posted by: churi on Nov 16, 2008 6:03 PM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Someone sent us an article written by you titled “Forget Red vs. Blue—It’s the Educated vs. People Easily Fooled by Propaganda.” An extremely well written piece making a number of very pertinent and seldom mentioned points.
I’m an eighty-two year old Canadian of Eastern European origins and I’m still troubled by terms such as “educated,” “literate,” “intellectual” vs. the illiterate or barely literate.
Perhaps my confusion springs from by basic belief that both the much vaunted “Intelligence” as well as “Education” are just powerful and potentially deadly forces but nothing else. Not unlike, for instance, another life or death force: electricity. Plug into an electrical outlet a hospital’s life-supporting machine and it will save a child’s life. Plug into the same outlet a penitentiary’s electric chair and it will just as efficiently fry a man. Or perhaps nuclear energy, which could either fuel a spacecraft, sending it into space, light up an entire city, or pulverize one in one blast. Just forces to be controlled and guided by human values higher than intelligence. They are totally devoid of natural instincts and insight, morality, principles, ethics and plain common sense. They are just forces that can uncaringly and indifferently swing either way.
How high was the IQ of certain historical personalities such as the ancient Greek and Roman philosophers and writers, characters like Moses, Jesus, Buddha or Maimonides, compared to individuals like Nero, Caligula, Genghis Khan, Marquis de Sade or Adolf Hitler. Impossible to know, but most likely they all enjoyed IQs of geniuses. The actions they took were determined not by their intelligence but by the additional “ingredients” mentioned above, or the lack of them.
It seems that too much emphasis was and is still placed on our two contemporary “holy cows”: intelligence and education. How much education and literacy did Jesus, a simple carpenter, or Hitler, a lowly house painter, possess? Probably not much, yet their messages and their impact were diametrically opposite. The problem is that with all our past and present intelligence and education, we still only have questions—clever questions, brilliant questions, witty, ordinary, plain and simple or just stupid questions. But the world thirsts for answers.
How profound and challenging was Shakespeare’s literate question, “To be or not to be?” compared to that of an illiterate peasant who, puzzled by life’s inconsistencies, would swear “What the fuck is this life all about?” Crude? Vulgar? To be sure, but basically the same question that Shakespeare asked.
I believe, dear Mr. Hedges, that the real answers lay far ahead of our present evolutionary stage, and until we find them, if ever, we’ll have to be content with the temporary Band-aids of education and literacy, irrespective of how poorly taught and used they are, and all the baggage that comes with them such as the ones your elucidated in your article: manipulations, clichés, ambiguities and emotionally charged mass “decisions” based on cheap slogans.
I hope I didn’t depress you too much.
Any comments?
Sincerely,
Ed Binder
churi1001@gmail.com
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Posted by: Bill in Detroit on Nov 16, 2008 7:45 PM
Current rating: 3 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
As it is, most are only vaguely disturbed about the cameras on the freeways and the 'sensors' under the pavement. Might those sensors actually be capable of disabling a vehicle engine with a pulse of EMR? Might those cameras actually be capable of performing a retinal scan? That's what my technical friends who have installed these systems have claimed for them.
Might those capacities be used to chill all dissent from whatever source is not in power at the moment and to insure that the seat of power never again changes?
It takes a very smart person to figure the engineering on this stuff out and an equally (liberal arts, this time) smart army of 'social planners' to sell the public on the need for constant surveillance. The twin towers tragedy was only part of an ongoing sales pitch. The lives of those who died had no significance to those who planned that attack because they, like you, felt superior to "ordinary" men.
Get off your high-horse, buck-oo.
It was smart, highly literate, people who figured out how to get energy out of the atom, first for bombs and latterly for electrical energy. Smart people who decided to let the civil wars rage in Africa. Smart people who actually turned away trucks loaded with aid from New Orleans after Katrina. Smart people who stole the Hawaiian Islands from the Hawaiians and all but wiped out the native American population in their greed.
Illiterates may have pulled the triggers, but literates pulled the strings.
Pray, my arrogant friend. Pray that the illiterate never find out what the literate have done to them.
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Posted by: Shey on Nov 17, 2008 1:13 AM
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Perception and awareness are the higher octaves of simple "knowledge of facts", and how difficult is it to get people to even agree about what constitutes a fact?
I basically agree with those who believe that religion has a role in skewing perception of factual reality (however you define that) but no one is making a distinction between organized religion and spirituality, or even between those who believe in organized religion but understand that it's precepts are metaphors, and those who claim to believe "literally" (which is absurd, because if they really lived that claim, they'd have to be in favor of slavery, stoning to death for theft, women and men sitting on opposite sides of the aisle in houses of worship and that coveting your neighbor's ass (as in his/her SUV, not the anatomical ass) is one of the ten worst "sins" of which humanity is capable, to name just a few of those absurdities.
A huge piece of the puzzle is that children aren't taught to focus and concentrate on seeing an idea through to a conclusion. They are bombarded with TV (and worst of all commercials, which have perfected the art of brainwashing) and video games. Parents who are affluent enough are told (again, by commercials) that if they really love their children, they wont deprive them of a DVD player for the back seat of the family car, when the exact opposite is true. Because that DVD player in the backseat - or allowing kids to play video games and utilize other distractions while on that family outing, are depriving kids of the experience of observing the world going by around them, and discussing what they observe with the adults in the front seat (who are probably talking on a cell or texting).
So we breed hyper-active children with a ninety second attention span, then we diagnose them with ADD and put them on drugs (thereby enriching the bloated pharmaceutical industry). The drugs numb their inquiring little minds and when they grow up, they're like Neo in The Matrix. They know something is very wrong, they just can't identify exactly what it is.
So they get depressed and (as per directed, once again, by TV commercials and other forms of ubiquitous advertising) turn to more pharmaceuticals, rather than trying to analyze and work out solutions for their problems.
So we have the perfect short attention span, pharmed-out consumer society. Except that it's now collapsing all around us.
Cheers.
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» RE: A puzzle with many peices
Posted by: Brian2008
» BEST SIGN LIBS ARE KOOKS
Posted by: reelman
» RE: BEST SIGN LIBS ARE KOOKS
Posted by: Shey
» RE: I just discovered alternet,
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Posted by: Beecher on Nov 18, 2008 10:06 AM
Current rating: Not yet rated [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Politics is not rational. It is about the human attempt to be rational, but it isn't, at root. What makes it so compelling is that it is the nexus of all our deepest, inarticulable desires and dreams, emotions, and our best attempts to work those into some way of creating agreements with other human beings. Ultimately, this is a fantastically farcical enterprise with great potential for transcendance and tragedy.
There is not a lot of difference between a Survivor type reality TV show and electing someone to public office. To some extent, whoever is elected needs to be capable of being on the national TV show.
That is legitimate in the sense that public life is a communal myth play. Most citizens are not on stage, but instead are part of a large audience. People on stage are there because they have been elected, but also because they somehow fit into the structure of the play.
We respond to this because it resonates.
As I was on the phone with undecided voters, and canvassing door to door for Obama during the campaign, I noticed an interesting behavior. I would encounter someone who said they were undecided. I would ask them if they had any issues of particular interest to them and they would say no. They might say they didn't feel they had enough information. I would ask them if they would like a website to look at, some source for info. They would say no.
This would be very frustrating from a rationalist point of view! But we have different types of intelligence. Some people are more genuinely intuitive and are trying to get a feel on some level. This is like the old saw about art: can't define it, but know it when we see it.
One of the traps a lot of people fall into, and this election cycle was a good example, is that there is a cult of stupidity.
Intelligent and well educated people, with worldly experience can opt to belong to the cult of stupidity. It is actually a popular and traditional theme in American life.
Mark Twain was able to simultaneously satirize and appeal to this side of the American mind. Reagan was sincerely leading a vision of America the stupid as a comfortable place to yearn for. Bush sought to continue that yearning.
Perhaps when John Kennedy was assassinated, and then Martin Luther King, and then Bobby - on the verge of getting nominated for president; that caused a shift. People didn't want to stick their heads up and be seen as too unconforming, too smart.
This caused the Democratic Party a loss of intellectuality, and a loss of political vigor and courage - coincidental with the rise of the political consultant and computer data processing, polling and all the rest.
It is interesting that Obama gets compared to Kennedy here and there. Perhaps having an intelligent and vigorous young president for the first time since JFK may herald a new fashionability for intellectualism and a going out of fashion of stupidity.
That would be nice.
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Posted by: atritium on Nov 18, 2008 6:15 PM
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http://www.zogby.com/news/ReadNews.cfm?ID=1641
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Posted by: atritium on Nov 18, 2008 6:59 PM
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Write-up ...
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Posted by: ppatt on Nov 20, 2008 6:06 PM
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So let me throw out yet another but with the caveat that it in now was constitutes any overarching explanation.
Psychologist Jonathan Haidt refers to openness to experience as a measure of political inclination. He suggests that this quality of openness to experience offers a scale on which liberals measure consistently higher and conservatives lower. "Open" individuals have an affinity for liberal, left-wing ideas and "closed" individuals have an affinity for conservative, right-wing ideas.
Those rating high for openness to experience crave novelty, variety, diversity, travel, and new ideas. Those rating lower tend to like things that are familiar and dependable. This is why artists are different from accountants and why anybody would eat at Applebys but not anyone you know. This is why, after knowing what type of individual is being considered that you might also accurately guess what kinds of foods they eat and books they read.
There is also a difference between stupidity and ignorance. But it is a basic human weakness to, aside from intelligence and knowledge, abide by the best explanation possible regardless of how flawed and full of holes it migth be, when there is no other that resonates with "known" truth.
Of course ignorance exacerbates the tendency to lunge at what scant explanations can be gleaned or even opportunistic indirections and misdirections of politicians or media pundits with their own agenda. Sadly we lack respected forums in search of facts and willing to intelligently consider the impact (not just to a single group but to all) of policies that take the facts into account.
And of course, without sufficient knowledge fallacious rhetoric can compete on equal terms with fact-based analysis.
There are many crises -- of leadership, values, integrity, and accountability.
A lot of blame goes to media as entertainment which never fails to implant some emotional conclusion to every issue on which it casts its shadow of ignorance. "It must be true because I saw it on tv" is as foolish a dictum as is "It must be true because I found it on the Internet." There are no longer any unbiased, trusted sources of facts much less investigation into them or analysis of them. When fascinating half-truths can attract more attention than workmanlike fact we know what we'll get.
I must agree with Hedges regarding literacty. It is no guarantee that truth can be gleaned but it sure does increase one's chances. Thus the importance of education.
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Posted by: -matti on Nov 12, 2008 12:40 AM
Current rating: 3 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
The title chosen for Alternet at best confuses Mr. Hedges' point and at worst is totally unattached to it.
This piece is mostly about the -increasing- tendency to get one's information more from pictures and sound (TV) than the written word.
From this tendency -and from his opinion of the quality of "Americans'" actions and ideas- Mr. Hedges comes to some conclusions on the implications for Society and the World.
Alternet's title seems assured of distracting from Mr. Hedges' intended focus and fomenting a huge -and pointless- debate on "education".
Likely an even more pointless and huge one than Mr. Hedges' own unfortunate use of the now-loaded (both conceptually AND emotionally) term, "Illiterate" -when what he means could be better called "A-lliterate", doesn't read, not cannot read- sparked on truthdig itself.
Sloppy, sloppy Alternet *wags finger*.
november5.org
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» RE: Title switch skews point of Article.
Posted by: Von
» Thanks. And as we see, the pointless debate has begun.
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» RE: Thanks. And as we see, the pointless debate has begun.
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» RE: people focused on picture info over word info lose the ability to USE word info
Posted by: Lauren
» RE: people focused on picture info over word info lose the ability to USE word info
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» What makes you think the educated are immune?
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» RE: What makes you think the educated are immune?
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» RE: What makes you think the educated are immune?
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» RE: What makes you think the educated are immune?
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» RE: What makes you think the educated are immune?
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» RE: What makes you think the educated are immune?
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» RE: What makes you think the educated are immune?
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» RE: What makes you think the educated are immune?
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» RE: What makes you think the educated are immune?
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» RE: the latest fashionable opinion on the subject, only $9.99
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» RE: Title switch skews point of Article. ~ Why are posting such whiny tripe on AlterNet?
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» Why do you...
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» Because it's easier than thinking. The entire...
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» RE: Because it's easier than thinking. The entire...
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» RE: Why do you...
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» RE: Matti and other trolls are a perfect example of what the article speaks about.
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» RE: Von...WTFAY
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» RE: Von...WTFAY
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» Lack of perspective, illiteracy, is the mark of the far right and far left
Posted by: Libertarian Paternalist
» Palin is a University of Idaho graduate.
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» RE: Lack of perspective, illiteracy, is the mark of the far right and far left
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» No, the "centrists" are worse
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» RE: Matti and other trolls are a perfect example of what the article speaks about.
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» RE: However you get it knowledge is freedom
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» RE: "Knowledge is not intelligence." Heraclitus
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» RE: "Knowledge is not intelligence." Heraclitus
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» RE: However you get it knowledge is freedom
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» RE: However you get it knowledge is freedom
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» RE: Title switch skews point of Article.
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» RE: Title switch skews point of Article.
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» RE:Title switch skews point of Article. Lay off Obama.
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» THE MAN WHO CAN READ AND DOESN'T AND THE MAN WHO CAN'T
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» RE: THE MAN WHO CAN READ AND DOESN'T AND THE MAN WHO CAN'T
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» RE: Title switch skews point of Article.
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» RE: Title switch skews point of Article.
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» RE: Title switch skews point of Article.
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Posted by: gunboat diplomat on Nov 12, 2008 2:17 AM
Current rating: 4 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
"Iraq has nuclear weapons and must be invaded."
"Tax cuts for the rich are good for the poor."
etc.
However, the educated elite are subject to their own propaganda as well, and it's a bit more effective. This is the kind of propaganda that makes intelligent, educated adults willing to devote their time and effort to advancing the agenda of totalitarian psychopaths.
The classic example is the public opinion towards the Vietnam War. The standard belief is that college-educated people opposed the war, while the illiterate were for it. James Risen does the statistics in his book "Lies my Teacher Told Me":
Most people believe that the Vietnam split is something like this, based on level of education:
college: 90% anti-war, 10% pro-war
high school: 75% anti-war, 25% pro-war
grade school: 60% anti-war, 40% pro-war
In reality, the educated groups were the ones who supported the war the most:
college: 60% anti-war, 40% pro-war
high school: 75% anti-war, 25% pro-war
grade school: 80% anti-war, 20% pro-war
Thus, the least educated and the most illiterate were the ones who opposed the war! Perhaps this is because they hadn't read all the artful propaganda in the papers about the "great noble cause" we were in engaged in.
Some of the basic prejudices of the educated class regarding the Vietnam war are listed by Risen:
1) Educated people are more informed and critical, hence more able to sift through information and conclude that the Vietnam War was not in our best interests...
2) Educated people are more tolerant. There were elements of racism and ethnocentrism in our conduct of the war; educated people are less likely to accept such prejudice.
Risen does a great job of describing the characteristics of the educated classes that make them susceptible to artful propaganda.
The first is Allegiance. Follow along: educated adults tend to make high salaries, and their education level often has much to do with their parent's wealth level. However, these people prefer to see America as a strict meritocracy, rather than one where inherited wealth is the dominant feature.
"They achieved their own success; other people must be getting their just deserts. Believing that American society is open to individual input, the educated well-to-do tend to agree with society's decisions and feel they had a hand in forming them"... in this sense, educated successful people have a vested interest in believing that the the society that helped them to be educated and successful is fair.
The second is Socialization. This is the process of "learning how to behave" - the social rules, norms, language, etc. Risen again puts it well: "Education as socialization tells people what to think and how to act and requires them to conform. Education as socialization influences students simply to accept the rightness of our society."
Just look at the neoconservatives - well educated but totally insane, and responsible for the most disastrous U.S. foreign policy ever, just about. I'd far rather have an illiterate person in charge - because they will be able to learn, and will likely be motivated to. They will also have a sense of humility, right?
Neocons already know it all, and are entirely sure that their views are the only right ones, and so they can't learn a damn thing.
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» RE: Illiterate doesn't mean dumb, just uneducated - and educated people can be very gullible.
Posted by: Lilly
» Noble savage
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» Educated does not equal intelligent
Posted by: Karina
» two kinds of education: indoctrination vs. exploration
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» RE: ignorance
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» Education and Character
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» RE: ducation and Character
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» RE: Illiterate doesn't mean dumb, just uneducated - and educated people can be very gullible.
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» Gullible
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» RE: Gullible
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» RE: Illiterate doesn't mean dumb, just uneducated - and educated people can be very gullible.
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» RE: Missing datum
Posted by: Crazy H
» I'd far rather have an illiterate person in charge - because they will be able to learn, and will li
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» RE: I'd far rather have an illiterate person in charge - because they will be able to learn, and will li
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» RE: Illiterate doesn't mean dumb, just uneducated - and educated people can be very gullible.
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» RE: Illiterate doesn't mean dumb, just uneducated - and educated people can be very gullible.
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» RE: Illiterate doesn't mean dumb, just uneducated - and educated people can be very gullible.
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» RE: Illiterate doesn't mean dumb, just uneducated - and educated people can be very gullible.
Posted by: off-the-radar 2
» RE: Illiterate doesn't mean dumb, just uneducated - and educated people can be very gullible.
Posted by: Bibsisis
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Posted by: weathered on Nov 12, 2008 2:58 AM
Current rating: 3 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Have you ever seen a president-elect command the pr, position and presence that Obama enjoys today?
Pure choreography.
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» RE: The art & science of deceit
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» RE: The art & science of deceit
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» RE: The art & science of deceit
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Posted by: Lilly on Nov 12, 2008 3:07 AM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
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» RE: Very Interesting random Thoughts
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» RE: What is this ... a liberal pep rally?
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» RE: Newt Gingrich, FOX special, "One Nation Under God," 12/23/2006
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Posted by: anniekelleher on Nov 12, 2008 3:20 AM
Current rating: 4 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
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» RE: i don't think its the illiterate vs the literate...
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» RE: i don't think its the illiterate vs the literate...
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» RE: i don't think its the illiterate vs the literate...
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» RE: i don't think its the illiterate vs the literate...
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» RE: i don't think its the illiterate vs the literate...
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» RE: i don't think its the illiterate vs the literate...
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Posted by: ~Fiona~ on Nov 12, 2008 4:18 AM
Current rating: 3 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
It seems even the supposed "Literate" prefer to watch television as to actually "Read"... Reading requires attention, it requires we take the information in and actually "think" about what we've read.
In our world of "Gotta have it NOW" many of us have convinced ourselves we "don't have time to read"...
**shruggs**
That's my two cents...
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» RE: I'm not so sure it is a matter of "Literacy" as much it may be...
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» RE: I'm not so sure it is a matter of "Literacy" as much it may be...
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» RE: I'm not so sure it is a matter of "Literacy" as much it may be...
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» RE: I'm not so sure it is a matter of "Literacy" as much it may be...
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» Thank you Basenjis...
Posted by: ~Fiona~
» This author didn't seem to gather information. Obama got more votes from high-school dropouts than
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» RE: those who didn't finish high school voted for Obama. The bar graph is interesting:
Posted by: Lauren
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Posted by: rugger on Nov 12, 2008 4:22 AM
Current rating: 3 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
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» RE: Watch the movide Idiocracy
Posted by: deeannef
» Link to review, interesting read, the movie is dead on too
Posted by: Overburdened Planet
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Posted by: Itsthewater on Nov 12, 2008 4:23 AM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
But as I said to my European educated wife the other day, the lashback against the prerogatives of Capital began with the most illiterate and educationally challenged people in the country: miners and loggers.
I feel that we may be entering another such phase (like the one that occurred at the beginning of the last century) where undereducated people fight for basic survival against recognizable forces. Witness the "Redneck Revolt" against the bailout.
All the images and emotion described above were employed to garner support for the thievery, but "Red" America didn't buy it. I was particularly struck by the image that Bush used in insisting that we had to do this: it was the exact same semiotics as the the sale of the Iraq war.
He stood at the end of a long hallway (I don't know, it could be "THE" long hallway, used for these occasions) and gave the same speech in the same clothes with the same props (red runner carpet, flag of US, imperial flag of the Presidency) and warned, although aged and not as much into his role as 6 years ago, that the need for quick action without reflection was a paramount duty of the American public. It was the exact same speech, with the words "Financial Crisis" substituted for "WMDs".
It is possible that the undereducated know who is screwing them and why. It is also possible that educated rich are aware that their policies in reference to general well being and sustainability are insane and don't care. The wealthy are not known for their ability to see over the horizon to the effects that their causes will make. See, for example, "let them eat cake".
The undereducated (and miseducated) public will arrive at their appointed times.
What I worry about is an angry vet, flunked out of art school, say, in Memphis, Atlanta, Jackson who decides to bring vengeance to the liberals and capitalists that sold out his dream.
Let's call him Alex Hatler. He is frustrated but articulate in the manipulation of images. He makes up a natty new wardrobe in Brown, Black or Red that lets the people who share his convictions identify themselves.
They have marches, maybe Sarah Palin gets behind them, where impassioned speeches are screamed about the bankers who allowed this monstrosity of miscegenation into the White House. After all, it is (according to the MSM) the financial crisis that propelled Obama to victory.
Meanwhile, the fragility of the "real" economy stresses people to the point where they say
ENOUGH SCALPEL, LET'S GO SLEDGEHAMMER!!
Maybe a fire in the capitol, blamed on Bill Ayers?
Sleep tight
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» RE: The primitive will always be with us . . .
Posted by: mike1997
» RE: It was the exact same speech, with the words "Financial Crisis" substituted for "WMDs".
Posted by: Lauren
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Posted by: pinnacle on Nov 12, 2008 4:36 AM
Current rating: 4 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
You must understand a simple fact. There are more ignorant people in the United States than there are educated ones and there are more stupid people than smart ones. A visit to Home Depot, for example, will illustrate that point very well. It should be clear, then, that education, or the lack thereof, is one of the biggest problems facing the US. And, yes, it is much easier to manipulate the ignorant than the educated because the educated have learned more, seen more, and done more. Maybe we should do away with the "Cartoon Channel" and require our kids to watch the "History Channel". Doing so would go a long ways towards educating the population.
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» "Home Depot" as emblem of ignorance tells more about you than us.
Posted by: Sojourner
» Mensa
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» True Believer
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» Glad to hear it is still in use.
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» RE: Glad to hear it is still in use. E pluribus unum!
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» RE: Glad to hear it is still in use. E pluribus unum!
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» RE: "Home Depot" as emblem of ignorance tells more about you; yeah, what was that?
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» RE: It's Knowledge Versus Ignorance
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» Emerson on physical activity
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» RE: It's Knowledge Versus Ignorance
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» RE: See my other posts?
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» RE: See my other posts?
Posted by: Bibsisis
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Posted by: apparently on Nov 12, 2008 4:43 AM
Current rating: 4 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
The world is not divided thusly and not as simplistically as hedges claims. This view not only disgusts for is dripping, know-it-all, holier-than-thou posturing, I-am-above-it-all posturing, it is also dangerous for it can easily blind one to whose one's enemies are and potentially block avenues for new connections and camaraderie.
Don't believe this "print world," self-aggrandizing propaganda.
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» RE: i am disgusted
Posted by: Nbomb3
» RE: i am disgusted (FINALLY, the real thought that should have prefaced any comment!)
Posted by: BigElectricCat
» RE: I have also known people--like those Hedges say are easily duped--demonstrate a critical ...
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» Chris Hedges has gone downhill
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» RE: i am disgusted
Posted by: popeurbanxxiii
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Posted by: Purple Girl on Nov 12, 2008 4:51 AM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Literally I would sit and listen in class and think..."What question should I ask about this?". I was such a obedient child, and also rather shy, I would struggle to think of something. God knows if they were pertinent questions but I was TOLD to to do so.
As I continued through College, this process became easier. In fact I began to realize what some intrustors said was true,'Don't feel foolish about asking questions, Yours may be the one someone else is afraid to ask themselves'.
Heres the difference
Those of US told to ask questions were indirectly informed that the teacher may not tell you everything, so YOU must draw the answers out of them for a clearer understanding. It also helped to encourage Us to seek answers if those given were inadequate.
Seems many others (including some college educated) Never had 'Inquiring minds'...Were they told to just listen in Class,Don't interrupt the teacher, or that the teacher knew everything.
I was not one to ask "lots" of questions- because I was shy, so I would wait until a question surfaced which had not been addressed during the Class. Poignant questions- not just 'participation' grade questions.
My Mother is a Right Wing Conservative (because her Husband is- My Dad was a social Moderate Dem), but she has nurtured the mind set of a Liberal. No Doubt this is frustrating to her...But I remind her that my views come from 'Asking lots of questions'.
Many people are raised to think & Do as they are Told....But it seems that many of US were intentioanlly or inadvertantly nurtured to be Questioners of Authority figures.
I know many less educated people who are deep thinkers and far more highly educated people who can never think outside the Box (the accepted, the standard, the Taught)
Prime Example- the typical Repug talking points are recited verbatium, never rephrased or even reconstructed to be grammatically correct. They speak as if they are connected to the Collective. Such as Now the mantra 'America is Right of Center'. Even faced with a monumental Loss they still hold this illogical view. I have heard every Right winger mechanically insert this lunacy in every conversation since the election.So to further my scope of understanding I must ASK "Why the hell would you assert such a well debunked idea". In theory those Stratedgists, pundits and media people are Well educated. Why do they not ask their 'Brain' why should we continue to look so stupid?...Because Ignorance is Bliss????
Question Authority, make them prove they are such. Challenge them when necessary to assure they continue to deserve such reverence.
I think the Bush adminstration proved 'Authority' is often the ignorant one and has provoked many Idle minded to begin Thinking again (or finally).They are asking more questions and finding the answers inadequate.This is intellectual Empowerment.So it's not Conserv vs Liberal, Red vs Blue, Educated vs uneducated....It's Self Esteem vs obedience. some see the authorities as the 'Mighty Oz',and some of Us ask 'Yeah BUT who's that man behind the curtain?'
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» RE: "...and Ask Lots of Questions" Said my Mother
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» RE: "...and Ask Lots of Questions" Said my Mother
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» RE: "...and Ask Lots of Questions" Said my Mother
Posted by: maglindracia
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Posted by: s.duplantier on Nov 12, 2008 4:56 AM
Current rating: 4 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Hedges says "We live in two Americas." No we don't. What could be more oversimplified and non-complex than this patently untrue dualism? "Two Americas" is in fact a print-based concept. You can't take a picture of "Two Americas," or display a symbol of the concept. One could argue that a series of images that even tried to prove that there are two Americas would fail, because it would show individual people, places, and activities, each with hundreds of nuanced differences. This is called reality, and it has less to do with the way that the linear, logical world of the print-based mind thinks that the world works than Hedges has imagined.
Hedges believes the beleaguered minority of literati are holding fast against the unwashed rabble --those easily duped by "simplistic, childish narratives." Yet Hedges narrative is nothing if not a simplistic and childish narrative itself. It is even worse, because the literate book readers of his cultural sphere (we could call it Printlandia) have access to the works of Harold A. Innis, Marshall McLuhan, Walter Ong, Eric Havelock, and others who offer more sophisticated analyses than the oversimplifications of Mr. Hedges.
In a few words, alphabetic and print literacy have given us the tools of thought that have created the very complex and turbulent world that individuals and societies are grappling with today. The literate world is itself the sphere of empire and control which emerged from the inventions of the alphabet, print, and the religions of the book.
Printlandians despise the oral/imagistic cultural mindset. Hedges slanders this "other" America in saying that it "cannot differentiate between lies and truth." But I am afraid it is the print-based mind failing to differentiate here.
Why not use those vaunted nuanced sensibilities to differentiate across the oral/image/literate divides and diagnose pathologies of culture in ways that will really make our collective lives better instead of give us such snobbish analyses?
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» Hear, hear!
Posted by: Coleman
» RE: Hear, hear! The battle lies in a different area.
Posted by: Lauren
» RE: Hear, hear! The battle lies in a different area.
Posted by: rinthy
» RE: Hear, hear! You are not rambling, thanks for sharing your story.
Posted by: Lauren
» RE: Hear, hear! You are not rambling, thanks for sharing your story.
Posted by: rinthy
» Dualism
Posted by: kepstein7777
» Can I order the Whopper from the Picture now?
Posted by: bystander
» RE: Can I order the Whopper from the Picture now?
Posted by: babs
» Two kinds of people: those who believe in two kinds and those who don't.
Posted by: Sojourner
» You Can't Argue With An Image...
Posted by: pdxjoe
» RE: You Can't Argue With An Image... propaganda
Posted by: Lauren
» You Illustrate My Point
Posted by: pdxjoe
» RE: This is not a nuanced analysis...
Posted by: Bibsisis
Comments are closed-
Posted by: Smartcookie on Nov 12, 2008 5:02 AM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
It's not merely smart vs dumb people, it's that human beings as a whole are very bad at seperating truth from illusions of truth, among all classes and all the educated.
People are habitual, unless one has a fierce dedication to the truth and changing themselves and their behaviour, and humility to knowledge. Ibn Al-haytham had the best way to approach knowledge and what human beings think they know:
(From wikipedia)
He reasoned that to discover the truth about nature, it is necessary to eliminate human opinion and error, and allow the universe to speak for itself.[58] He wrote in his Doubts Concerning Ptolemy:
Therefore, the seeker after the truth is not one who studies the writings of the ancients and, following his natural disposition, puts his trust in them, but rather the one who suspects his faith in them and questions what he gathers from them, the one who submits to argument and demonstration, and not to the sayings of a human being whose nature is fraught with all kinds of imperfection and deficiency. Thus the duty of the man who investigates the writings of scientists, if learning the truth is his goal, is to make himself an enemy of all that he reads, and, applying his mind to the core and margins of its content, attack it from every side. He should also suspect himself as he performs his critical examination of it, so that he may avoid falling into either prejudice or leniency.
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» RE: Stupidity is the norm, not the exception for all...
Posted by: Nbomb3
» RE: Stupidity is the norm, not the exception for all...
Posted by: BigElectricCat
Comments are closed-
Posted by: taxidriver on Nov 12, 2008 5:03 AM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Many people today just accept what they're told, partly because it feeds their biases, and partly because they don't have the tools to evaluate knowledge claims. Also, if you never read opposing views, and you have no respect for intellectual discourse and tolerance of the opinions of others, you have little opportunity to grow.
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» RE: "Learn how to learn"
Posted by: ATH
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Posted by: alexandrapushkin on Nov 12, 2008 5:09 AM
Current rating: 4 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
given the fact that even in the 21st-century, there are large segments of the population of this country who receive a second-class education through no fault of their own, i think it is reasonable to expect a national politician to reach out to all of his constituents, not just the ones who went to harvard like he did. furthermore, it seems to me that the solution to a problem which may or may not stem from the educational level of voters (the author did not much mention religion or culture as signifiers) should be for the nation to demand equal educational opportunities for all of its citizens.
i usually turn my nose up at the mention of a "liberal elite," which i acknowledge squarely places me among one, but in this case, i'm more inclined wrinkle my nose from the stench of it.
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Posted by: 911FalseFlag on Nov 12, 2008 5:12 AM
Current rating: 4 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
The media will spin in a positive light all of the lies put out by McCain and Palin. However, it does not matter who wins since Obama/Biden have sold out to the military industrial oil central private banking complex.
The fact that Obama/Biden say nothing about 9/11 being an inside job, the Federal Reserve Bank being the cause of the current financial crisis and every financial crisis prior to this one from 1913 on, Electronic voting machines being completely hackable both on the machine level and on the transmission of the precinct votes to the central tabulator and that this administration lied to attack Iraq.
Why none of these candidates can speak out is simple. They are all to varying degrees complicit with the cover-up of the above mentioned most pertinent problems in this country. If I know about these underlying causative problems, then they must know.
go to www.911insidejob.net
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» RE: Media's Role in People Being Uninformed and ill-informed
Posted by: jgilb
» RE: Media's Role in People Being Uninformed and ill-informed
Posted by: Lauren
» RE: We must also keep our ego in check.
Posted by: Beck
Comments are closed-
Posted by: CHD on Nov 12, 2008 5:19 AM
Current rating: 4 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
In 1858 was the debate in question reported verbatim in the newspapers? Or was it reported and summarised at a level of the 'average' reader?
Is the real difference that people now actually see/listen to the debate and so the participants make sure the language is clear and simple? Especially when some of those watching (and voting in key areas) may not even have English as a 1st language?
And isn't 6th/7th grade a 11 or 12 year old not a 10 year old as the writer says (or was the working title for the piece something about politicians not being smarter than... oh never mind its a TV reference)
The writer appears to fall into the "if you can't read as well as me your not as 'clever' as me trap". Electrical engineers and chemists use symbols to represent the abstract ideas in their fields. Does that mean they are not as clever as print journalists who use only words?
The thing that strikes me about the US elections that I have lived through is that they usually seem more like popularity contests than actual elections. The personal attributes rather than the actual policy differences being the things that are reported on and 'sold' to the public at large (by both the parties themselves and the news). I imagine that this is due to both candidates usually being centre right conservatives (when viewed from a rest of the world perspective) who actually have more in common than they do differences.
And a final point. I don't know if its just the UK news but I keep hearing the same story of poor US homeowners who were told their loan was at a fixed rate when either it wasn't or it was only fixed for 12-18 months. Is this type of 'mis-selling' legal in the US?
Is a loan company or bank making its products and documentation so deliberately obtuse that it catches out the unwary fair? Oh well, never mind, the writer and the banker can enjoy their drink together safe in the knowledge that they are cleverer than everyone else.
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» RE: Politics for the masses?
Posted by: Lauren
» legal in the US?
Posted by: Sojourner
» RE: legal in the US?
Posted by: Lauren
» RE: Politics for the masses?
Posted by: gradioc
Comments are closed-
Posted by: olympia43 on Nov 12, 2008 5:22 AM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
One other thing, in spite of all the videos, etc. kids watch they have a very poor vocabulary. Anytime I used a word that was slightly unusual, they looked at me like I was suddenly speaking an alien language.
The big reason that I now get most of my news from the internet is that it gives me a chance to pursue stories in more depth.
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» RE: movie or book
Posted by: Lauren
» RE: movie or book.....olympia43
Posted by: Basenjis
Comments are closed-
Posted by: 911FalseFlag on Nov 12, 2008 5:27 AM
Current rating: 4 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
I could go on and on but I will not. Please check out my website which is www.911insidejob.net for many articles and videos
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» RE: Well Said
Posted by: Lauren
» RE: Well Said
Posted by: WyrdSister
» RE: Well Said
Posted by: Lauren
» RE: Well Said
Posted by: Centavo
Comments are closed-
Posted by: Skeptic10 on Nov 12, 2008 5:43 AM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
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» RE: ducation level, literacy irrelevant
Posted by: Lauren
» RE: ducation level, literacy irrelevant
Posted by: Beck
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Posted by: Krotos on Nov 12, 2008 6:23 AM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
That's why I and many others keep saying that whether the next four or eight years are a fresh start for the country will depend on us, not him. The idea that we've solved all our problems just by changing the person in the Oval Office is the kind of attitude you'd expect to see in an absolute monarchy, not in a democratic republic. That indeed is scary.
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» RE: Scary (but there are answers if people will participate)
Posted by: nochicagoboys
» RE: Scary; oh, no we didn't.
Posted by: Beck
Comments are closed-
Posted by: Lauren on Nov 12, 2008 9:34 AM
Current rating: 1 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Yes you have been, but it was not Obama, it was me!
I played a trick on everybody. I tricked them into having an actual election instead of the usual big media coronation. The big media was most surprised of all. Why, they never saw me coming? No. They were deliberately ignoring a really big story. Will they will see me next time? We will see.
I did it by raising issue after isuue on the internet. I am a mom and girl scout leader so I really know how to talk about the issues people care about, like the economy.
What I was doing was very clever and complicated and lots of people do not believe it. But to keep attributing magic to Obama is simply incorrect, the magic came from me. He just knew what to do with it. Somebody he knew was paying attention to me and they caught and amplified my message of hope.
They had to have faith in me, that I really had a vision for achieving a better world, and I had to convince them. I had to have faith and be able to share my vision. Don't think Bush's forces of darkness weren't busy with me, they were. It was criminal and it was torture. I am a citizen, I do have rights.
"Liberals" keep assuming it was Obama that has this vision, that is not right. It was his smarts to ride and build the wave, but I called it up. You don't have to believe it, but it is true.
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Posted by: MartianBachelor on Nov 12, 2008 9:59 AM
Current rating: 2 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Oh, that's right... those who elected him are the "smart" ones.
I think I sense a tautology going on here.
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