COMMENTS: 13
Compassion For the Few
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The Justice Department has recently affirmed that natural disasters, such as Katrina, qualify as "special circumstances," thereby justifying the elimination of debt under the forgiveness or "fresh start" umbrella of Chapter 7 bankruptcy. In other words, Katrina's victims are exempt from the harshest part of the new bankruptcy law, one that forces debtors into Chapter 13 (debt reorganization and court-ordered debt repayment over three years). Katrina victims are also exempt from other requirements of the new bankruptcy law, including producing cumbersome documents, forced attendance at credit counseling sessions and compulsory meetings with creditors.
While the Justice Department's flexibility is good news for Katrina's victims, it's unclear how long they'll be exempt, although it better be for a long time since bankruptcy filings don't peak until three years after a disaster.
The Justice Department's ruling is based on the simple premise that victims of natural catastrophes are impoverished by an act of nature rather than by their own moral failings. In effect, this creates a category of worthy versus unworthy debtors. Since the logic is strikingly similar to the 17th-century distinction between the worthy and unworthy poor, perhaps the DoJ might want to think about resurrecting debtor's prisons.
The Justice Department's ruling brings up troubling contradictions. For instance, while Katrina's victims are considered worthy of compassion, other groups are not. Apparently, those who fall ill and quit their jobs or are forced to cut back on work hours due to illness, are considered unworthy. These individuals fall under the new bankruptcy law that took effect October 17.
In their books, As We Forgive Our Debtors and The Fragile Middle Class, authors Teresa Sullivan, Elizabeth Warren and Jay Lawrence Westbrook found that contrary to popular stereotypes, bankruptcy filers are not irresponsible spendthrifts. Instead, the reasons they fall off the financial cliff include layoffs, downward job mobility, part-time work, huge medical bills, income loss from illness or accidents, overuse of credit cards, and the financial pressure on single-family households resulting from divorce or abandonment (a divorced woman is 300 percent more likely to file for bankruptcy than her married sister).
Many causes for bankruptcy are rooted in events -- like hurricanes -- that are beyond the individual's control.
One lesson learned from the Justice Department's ruling is that if you have intractable debt but your circumstances don't warrant special consideration, move to the Gulf Coast. Anywhere from Pensacola to Houston will do. Then pray for a hurricane since that's probably the only way you'll merit compassion. Of course, the extent of that compassion will depend largely on the president's approval rating.
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Posted by: maxpayne on Oct 21, 2005 6:05 AM
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As for the bankruptcy bill and Hurricane Katrina, don't be surprised if other sneaky stipulations and barriers are passed to block these victims from protection.
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Posted by: loony on Oct 21, 2005 8:30 AM
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» RE: Small is Bootable
Posted by: cyclone
» RE: Small is Bootable
Posted by: loony
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Posted by: jeffrey7 on Oct 21, 2005 10:04 AM
Current rating: Not yet rated [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
cd's,T-bills whatever and put it in a safety deposit box. That way, the greedy folks that run the system will have no money to work with. In cold regions,cover your house in plastic from roofline to the ground,you'll cut your gas bill by more than half. If the folks in the milder climes did the same thing there would be a great 'surplus' of fuel. Finally, since they think it's OK to take away the average citizens right to get an economic
'clean slate', then it's more than OK for this to be their LAST YEAR IN OFFICE. We need to make our Representitives come from the kind of Citizens that will built the society from the bottom up. The Wealthy that control the GOVT and the Media would like you to think that there might be a problem with China and her 2.25 million troops. I think the problem will be the 80 MILLION PEOPLE kept in premenant 'Low-Income, every year,that are sick of piosoned air, crappy housing,non-living wages and the non-support of their Representatives, when they decide "We're not going to take this Crap!' and STOP WORKING,BUYING and SUPPORTING your worthless Ideologies,Policies and Govt Flunkies. The Wealthy Nations of the World,and their psychophantic psuedo-govts wants all the people on their knees. Fine. It makes it that much eaiser to pull the rug out from under them.
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Posted by: canteatjustone on Oct 21, 2005 10:31 AM
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Keep in mind while our legislature tightens the screws on the lower and middle classes in every way imaginable, we(US gov) are forgiving billions in loans to other countries, at the same time the US government is the largest debtor nation on the planet.
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Posted by: rwcbanzai on Oct 21, 2005 5:57 PM
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Everyone has to be treated equal. An exception is discriminatory especially to those disabled without income. This law is foolish and is a debtors prison. Hopefully, common sense in congress next year will over turn this. Don't expect the Supreme Court too!
There is now no such thing as bankruptcy! Except if the powers to be create an discriminatory exemption.
What's next, bankruptcy exemptions for corporations?
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Posted by: CatDad on Oct 21, 2005 8:09 PM
Current rating: Not yet rated [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
MBNA was the biggest campaign donor to TeamBush...even more so than Enron…so the passage of this bill was an inevitable result of the new “pay to play” corrupt/cronyism of this regime, as was the inevitable spinelessness of the Democrats in not trying to stop it. The bankruptcy court system has now in large part been turned into a collection agency of credit card companies. All debts are now required to first go to “credit counselors,” a largely scam system cross-dressing as a charity which is financed by the credit card industry...a classic conflict of interest to the indebted.
As usual, the ruling elite uses false mythologies to further their agenda...in this case the mythology of the poor, helpless multi-billion dollar credit card companies that are being shafted by “deadbeat” cardholders who are abusing the bankruptcy system. Whatever marginal drop in there multi-billion dollar profits these giants of corporate American have incurred, it is largely a result of their own business practices: giving out credit cards to anyone who can breathe oxygen.
The GOP, enabled by the Democrats, have largely succeeded in driving a stake through the heart of working class families....they have done this while projecting a “pro-family” message of being compassionate to the “unborn” and the brain dead...a compassion that does not involve inherently changing the system that they’ve gamed massively in their favor.
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Posted by: Poe on Oct 21, 2005 8:38 PM
Current rating: Not yet rated [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
I have to fill out landlord statements for single moms.......so they can have their gas bill payed by HEAP.....or to get food stamps......or have their diapers and formula's payed for........yet they have 250 cable stations....some have sat. Dishes.....three cell phones....designer clothes....more "top of the line" sneakers in their closets than all of the shoes I've owned in my entire lifetime. Some....like my last two tenants......are able to drive $35,000 SUV's. That is totally ridiculous.
It's also not just a problem in poor communities. The middle class and even people with a very comfortable income, live way ahead of their own means and eventually it will catch up.
We do live in a culture of manic consumerism.......and it's pretty pathetic. Everybody wants it....and they want it now.
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» RE: Too much with too little
Posted by: CatDad
» RE: Too much with too little
Posted by: Poe
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Posted by: iwokeup on Oct 23, 2005 9:14 AM
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much of this stuff was set in motion all the way back under GHW Bush's administration, and the foul work continued under the Clinton administration, but with W in the white house, the Coup De Grace is being administered to all Americans who work for a living...this administration is progressing by leaps and bounds toward an America where most of us will be living like the Chinese...low paid wage slaves, forced to sell our homes to put food on the table. "personal responsibility" for one's financial situation becomes a tough sell when circumstances go bad on all fronts, and honest hard working Americans are faced with another Great Depression which affects only THEM.
now that one of the main avenues of escape from financial ruin (bankruptcy) has been conveniently blocked off, it will be interesting to see WHO gets special treatment and who doesn't.
i say VOTE OUT ALL INCUMBENTS, no exceptions. do this consistently for the next 20 years, and we might have a chance to reverse the destruction. i was a Conservative my whole life, until the last 5 years...now i am closer to being a Libertarian than anything else...THE LESS GOVERNMENT, THE BETTER...
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Posted by: sln70 on Oct 25, 2005 11:47 AM
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I mean, people, if you go out and run up your credit cards then you must pay them off! If you buy a house thre weeks before declaring bankruptcy, why should it be exempt? Personally (I'm from Canada) I think it's might generous to be allowed to keep ANY of the equity in your home let alone up to $125,000 as the new rules state. And making people enter into repayment plans rather than letting them off scott free is just common sense, to me.
I think too many people rely on bankruptcy as a solution to overspending and even though I'm a left wing advocate for social justice, these new laws seem to make it fairer for everyone. After all - it isn't the truly poor who declare bankruptcy - but it is EVERYBODY who pays for the Chapter 7s or 13s of others - through higher costs for necessities and credit. Saying that people who get themselves under a mountain of debt should be allowed to beg off of paying it back just reeks of irresponsibility and a lack of integrity.
I can see how the new laws might seem like a big-brother-class-war-esque move, but in my opinion the new rules seem fair.
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Posted by: maxpayne on Oct 21, 2005 6:05 AM
Current rating: Not yet rated [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
As for the bankruptcy bill and Hurricane Katrina, don't be surprised if other sneaky stipulations and barriers are passed to block these victims from protection.
[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]
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Posted by: loony on Oct 21, 2005 8:30 AM
Current rating: Not yet rated [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
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» RE: Small is Bootable
Posted by: cyclone
» RE: Small is Bootable
Posted by: loony
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Posted by: jeffrey7 on Oct 21, 2005 10:04 AM
Current rating: Not yet rated [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
cd's,T-bills whatever and put it in a safety deposit box. That way, the greedy folks that run the system will have no money to work with. In cold regions,cover your house in plastic from roofline to the ground,you'll cut your gas bill by more than half. If the folks in the milder climes did the same thing there would be a great 'surplus' of fuel. Finally, since they think it's OK to take away the average citizens right to get an economic
'clean slate', then it's more than OK for this to be their LAST YEAR IN OFFICE. We need to make our Representitives come from the kind of Citizens that will built the society from the bottom up. The Wealthy that control the GOVT and the Media would like you to think that there might be a problem with China and her 2.25 million troops. I think the problem will be the 80 MILLION PEOPLE kept in premenant 'Low-Income, every year,that are sick of piosoned air, crappy housing,non-living wages and the non-support of their Representatives, when they decide "We're not going to take this Crap!' and STOP WORKING,BUYING and SUPPORTING your worthless Ideologies,Policies and Govt Flunkies. The Wealthy Nations of the World,and their psychophantic psuedo-govts wants all the people on their knees. Fine. It makes it that much eaiser to pull the rug out from under them.
[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]
Comments are closed-
Posted by: canteatjustone on Oct 21, 2005 10:31 AM
Current rating: Not yet rated [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Keep in mind while our legislature tightens the screws on the lower and middle classes in every way imaginable, we(US gov) are forgiving billions in loans to other countries, at the same time the US government is the largest debtor nation on the planet.
[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]
Comments are closed-
Posted by: rwcbanzai on Oct 21, 2005 5:57 PM
Current rating: Not yet rated [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Everyone has to be treated equal. An exception is discriminatory especially to those disabled without income. This law is foolish and is a debtors prison. Hopefully, common sense in congress next year will over turn this. Don't expect the Supreme Court too!
There is now no such thing as bankruptcy! Except if the powers to be create an discriminatory exemption.
What's next, bankruptcy exemptions for corporations?
[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]
Comments are closed-
Posted by: CatDad on Oct 21, 2005 8:09 PM
Current rating: Not yet rated [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
MBNA was the biggest campaign donor to TeamBush...even more so than Enron…so the passage of this bill was an inevitable result of the new “pay to play” corrupt/cronyism of this regime, as was the inevitable spinelessness of the Democrats in not trying to stop it. The bankruptcy court system has now in large part been turned into a collection agency of credit card companies. All debts are now required to first go to “credit counselors,” a largely scam system cross-dressing as a charity which is financed by the credit card industry...a classic conflict of interest to the indebted.
As usual, the ruling elite uses false mythologies to further their agenda...in this case the mythology of the poor, helpless multi-billion dollar credit card companies that are being shafted by “deadbeat” cardholders who are abusing the bankruptcy system. Whatever marginal drop in there multi-billion dollar profits these giants of corporate American have incurred, it is largely a result of their own business practices: giving out credit cards to anyone who can breathe oxygen.
The GOP, enabled by the Democrats, have largely succeeded in driving a stake through the heart of working class families....they have done this while projecting a “pro-family” message of being compassionate to the “unborn” and the brain dead...a compassion that does not involve inherently changing the system that they’ve gamed massively in their favor.
[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]
Comments are closed-
Posted by: Poe on Oct 21, 2005 8:38 PM
Current rating: Not yet rated [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
I have to fill out landlord statements for single moms.......so they can have their gas bill payed by HEAP.....or to get food stamps......or have their diapers and formula's payed for........yet they have 250 cable stations....some have sat. Dishes.....three cell phones....designer clothes....more "top of the line" sneakers in their closets than all of the shoes I've owned in my entire lifetime. Some....like my last two tenants......are able to drive $35,000 SUV's. That is totally ridiculous.
It's also not just a problem in poor communities. The middle class and even people with a very comfortable income, live way ahead of their own means and eventually it will catch up.
We do live in a culture of manic consumerism.......and it's pretty pathetic. Everybody wants it....and they want it now.
[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]
» RE: Too much with too little
Posted by: CatDad
» RE: Too much with too little
Posted by: Poe
Comments are closed-
Posted by: iwokeup on Oct 23, 2005 9:14 AM
Current rating: Not yet rated [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
much of this stuff was set in motion all the way back under GHW Bush's administration, and the foul work continued under the Clinton administration, but with W in the white house, the Coup De Grace is being administered to all Americans who work for a living...this administration is progressing by leaps and bounds toward an America where most of us will be living like the Chinese...low paid wage slaves, forced to sell our homes to put food on the table. "personal responsibility" for one's financial situation becomes a tough sell when circumstances go bad on all fronts, and honest hard working Americans are faced with another Great Depression which affects only THEM.
now that one of the main avenues of escape from financial ruin (bankruptcy) has been conveniently blocked off, it will be interesting to see WHO gets special treatment and who doesn't.
i say VOTE OUT ALL INCUMBENTS, no exceptions. do this consistently for the next 20 years, and we might have a chance to reverse the destruction. i was a Conservative my whole life, until the last 5 years...now i am closer to being a Libertarian than anything else...THE LESS GOVERNMENT, THE BETTER...
[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]
Comments are closed-
Posted by: sln70 on Oct 25, 2005 11:47 AM
Current rating: Not yet rated [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
I mean, people, if you go out and run up your credit cards then you must pay them off! If you buy a house thre weeks before declaring bankruptcy, why should it be exempt? Personally (I'm from Canada) I think it's might generous to be allowed to keep ANY of the equity in your home let alone up to $125,000 as the new rules state. And making people enter into repayment plans rather than letting them off scott free is just common sense, to me.
I think too many people rely on bankruptcy as a solution to overspending and even though I'm a left wing advocate for social justice, these new laws seem to make it fairer for everyone. After all - it isn't the truly poor who declare bankruptcy - but it is EVERYBODY who pays for the Chapter 7s or 13s of others - through higher costs for necessities and credit. Saying that people who get themselves under a mountain of debt should be allowed to beg off of paying it back just reeks of irresponsibility and a lack of integrity.
I can see how the new laws might seem like a big-brother-class-war-esque move, but in my opinion the new rules seem fair.
[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]
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