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Both of My Grandfathers Were Illegal Immigrants (and Lou Dobbs' Would Be Today)

By Steven Wishnia, AlterNet. Posted August 5, 2008.


My grandfathers, like many other illegal immigrants, helped usher in the world's greatest period of working class prosperity.
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Both my grandfathers were illegal immigrants.

Morris Passoff, my mother's father, came here from what is now Belarus in 1910, when he was 14. As he was by himself, he got a woman on the ship to pretend she was his aunt so he wouldn't be turned back at Ellis Island as an unaccompanied minor.

Avram Wishnia and Hinde Greenberg Wishnia, my father's parents, came here from Paris around 1929, about five years after they had emigrated there from Poland. My grandmother was able to enter the country as an immigrant, as her father was already a U.S. citizen, but my grandfather had to come in as a tourist. In early 1932, he was expelled because his visa had expired -- even though he had an 8-month-old Brooklyn-born son, my father. My grandmother went to work in an overcoat factory while her parents took care of my father -- who was what the contemporary anti-immigrant movement calls an "anchor baby."

My family history belies the central beliefs of that anti-immigrant movement: the argument that "our ancestors all came here legally"; the racist attitudes that immigrants are alien scum; and the idea that immigrants, especially illegal ones, drive down wages. Both my grandfathers became union activists, part of the movement that ushered in the greatest period of working-class prosperity in the history of the industrialized world. "In our organizing, we talk about the work immigrants did in the 1930s to create the good jobs we have today," says Annemarie Strassel, a Chicago-based organizer for UNITE HERE. "We want to revive that for the 21st century."

Morris Passoff got a job as a copy boy for the New York World, driving a horse cart to deliver stories from reporters in the field. On March 25, 1911, when he was 15, he was at work when a fire broke out in the Triangle Shirtwaist Factory. He watched as screaming workers jumped from ninth-floor windows with their hair and clothing ablaze, as the World reported. He moved up to the mailroom, bundling and mailing the newspapers, and eventually worked at two Yiddish-language dailies. He served on the executive board of Mailers Local 6 of the International Typographers Union.

"He had a real sense of himself as working-class," my mother recalls. "He always said, 'I am a worker.' Not 'middle class,' like they say today."

Avram Wishnia returned to Brooklyn in 1934 and worked as a presser in a clothing factory. He also served on the executive board of his International Ladies Garment Workers Union local. He stood up to Murder Inc. goons and corrupt business agents but was purged at the beginning of the Cold War for his communist sympathies.

Union wages and security, affordable (rent-controlled) housing and cheap college tuition were the tripod that supported my parents' generation as they moved into the middle class and beyond. But there are formidable obstacles to the current generation of immigrants doing the same. Changes in our immigration laws mean that most of the Ellis Island generation would not now be able to enter the country legally. The union movement is much weaker than it was in the post-World War II period. The post-Reagan economy has redistributed wealth from America to Richistan to the point that if Manhattan were an independent nation, it would have the most unequal economy in the world. And the illegal status of many immigrant workers is another weapon employers can use to intimidate them when they try to organize.

War on Workers

"Employers violate workers' rights every time we try to organize," says Eddie Acosta, worker center coordinator for the AFL-CIO. "It's the fear of being deported that makes people afraid."

Two of the largest recent roundups of illegal immigrants -- in which the federal Bureau of Immigration and Customs Enforcement charged hundreds of workers with identity theft for using false Social Security numbers -- took place at companies with histories of union-management conflict. The United Food and Commercial Workers were trying to organize at the Agriprocessors kosher meatpacking plant in Postville, Iowa, where 389 people were arrested and 270 jailed in an ICE raid May 12. And the United Steelworkers were beginning a drive to expand the union at the Chattanooga chicken factory that was one of five Pilgrim's Pride plants raided in April, with more than 300 people arrested.

Agriprocessors' owners "have resisted any effort" to unionize, says UFCW spokesperson Gonzalo Salvador. The UFCW had complained to state and federal officials that the company was shorting workers on their paychecks and hiring underage workers, and Pilgrim's Pride in 2004 refused to renew UFCW contracts at several plants. Both companies cooperated with ICE in the raids, and Pilgrim's Pride issued a statement saying it had set off the investigation by informing ICE that workers at its Batesville, Ark., plant were using false Social Security numbers. However, Salvador says he can't say for sure that the raids were linked to attempts to undermine the union. A more subtle tactic, says Milan Bhatt of the New York Immigration Coalition, is for companies facing a union campaign to dismiss employees because of the sudden discovery that their Social Security number doesn't match any listed in the government's E-Verify database. In 2006, the Cintas laundry chain fired more than 400 workers after it received no-match letters. UNITE HERE was trying to organize workers there.

"We see it around the country," says Acosta. "Workers are being fired for no-match, but there hasn't been a no-match letter sent in at least a year and a half."

The E-Verify database has at least 17,000 errors, he says, and the Department of Homeland Security's database is also flawed. Though E-Verify is supposed to be used only to screen newly hired employees, a General Accounting Office study found that employers are using it on current workers, he adds. The Swift meatpacking company, where ICE seized almost 1,300 workers in December 2006, was using E-Verify. "The workers are terrorized, both immigrant and non-immigrant, and the employer gets off scot-free."

Others say the practice is less common. Jo Marie Agriesti, Midwest organizing director for UNITE HERE, says she's heard rumors but hasn't seen employers using no-match letters against workers in her area.

Fear Factor

Being deported is a much harsher consequence than being fired. But organizers say fear is the primary obstacle to unionization even among native-born citizens, so workers' immigration status is not as big a roadblock as it seems. "Immigration is serious, but it's not that different from other things people are afraid of," says Brenda Carter of UNITE HERE. "People's biggest fear is of losing their jobs," explains Agriesti. "If you're a 50-year-old white woman or a 50-year-old black woman, it's really hard to get a new job." That applies equally to immigrant workers who have risen above the lowest-paying jobs, she adds.

To form a union, she continues, "people have to be willing to lose their jobs. We don't lie to people. We don't say the law is going to protect you." The laws have been too "decimated" to do much, says Acosta. And in a 2002 case involving Hoffman Plastic Compounds Inc., the Supreme Court ruled that undocumented workers were covered by the National Labor Relations Act -- but that employers who fired them illegally didn't have to pay back wages or reinstate them, because that would violate the laws against knowingly hiring illegal immigrants. Another disadvantage of filing unfair-labor-practice complaints, he adds, is that it "takes power away from the workers and gives it to the legal process, which takes forever."

Acosta outlines a three-part strategy for successful organizing: Convince employers that the union is not going away, get workers to overcome their fear, and enlist community support "so workers feel they're not alone."

Others say that simply talking to workers about the advantages of a union is the best strategy. "Better wages, better benefits, fewer injuries, more rights and respect," says the UFCW's Salvador. "Word of mouth is very helpful -- the facts speak for themselves. They see, 'This guy is making $5 an hour more than I am.'"

In Chicago, says UNITE HERE's Strassel, immigrants have helped bring "a major turnaround in the militancy of the union in the last decade." Though a strike at the Congress Hotel remains unsettled after five years, housekeepers' wages have risen from $8.83 to $13.90 an hour since 2002, and they've also won health care benefits.

"For immigrants, organizing a union is the only way to have a better life -- other than winning the lottery," says Agriesti. Being treated with respect is often a bigger issue than money, she adds.

Union organizers say they never ask workers about their immigration status. "We do not believe there should be any difference. Everyone deserves the same rights and respect at work," says Salvador. Another problem is dealing with tension within the union itself over immigration. In Chicago, according to Strassel, hotels have hired almost exclusively Latinos in the last 10 years, and many of the older Afro-American workers resent that. On the other hand, she tells the story of an event center that brought in Latino temporary workers to supplant the Afro-American staff, giving the newer workers supervisory positions and telling them the black workers were lazy. But once the temps made it into permanent jobs, they were demoted and replaced with other temps. When that happened, she says, the black workers realized that "management was trying to play them off against each other."

"Everybody gets mistreated," says Agriesti. "In organizing nonunion workers, it's easier to point that out. It doesn't matter if the Mexican workers are cleaning rooms with a toothbrush or the Chinese workers are faster. We're all in the same boat.

"There is tension among different ethnic groups, but with good organizing, it goes away. If management is winning, the work force is divided. If the union is winning, the work force is united."

Organizing the Shadow Economy

Unions are also moving into organizing day laborers, the most subterranean sector of the job market. "On the Corner," a 2006 study by urban-planning professors Abel Valenzuela and Nik Theodore, estimated a daily average of 117,600 day laborers, the overwhelming majority of them men from Mexico and Central America, with 60 percent of them in the country for less than five years and three-fourths undocumented. They wait for potential employers at more than 700 sites around the country, from urban street corners to Home Depot parking lots, and get painting, landscaping and construction work that generally pays around $10 an hour.

Day laborers are the most visible and controversial part of the illegal-immigrant work force -- and among the most vulnerable. Among the 2,600 day laborers interviewed for the study, half reported having been cheated out of their pay by at least one employer, and one-fifth reported being injured on the job.

As they are hired informally by contractors and homeowners, a formal union structure wouldn't work. "It's impossible to negotiate with one contractor," says Pablo Alvarado, head of the Los Angeles-based National Day Labor Organizing Network. So the main method of organizing day laborers is by establishing "worker centers."

There are now about 180 around the country, says Acosta. They function as hiring halls and offer legal services and English classes. They also create a venue for collective action, such as workers agreeing on minimum wages for certain jobs, easing community concerns about laborers being on the street, and organizing or litigating against local laws aimed at suppressing day laborers.

NDLON, founded in 2001, comprises 41 community organizations in the West, Southwest, Northeast, Illinois and Florida. The AFL-CIO set up a formal partnership with it in 2006.

Some centers serve all day laborers in a certain area. Others cover specific jobs such as taxi drivers or domestic workers -- job categories that have a high number of immigrants and are not covered by the National Labor Relations Act, says Acosta. In Los Angeles, the United Steelworkers are using the worker-center model in a campaign to organize the area's 10,000 car-wash workers, some of whom work only for tips.

NDLON will picket employers if they stiff more than five workers, says Alvarado; one Los Angeles construction contractor cheated 100 workers out of their pay. But he believes the most effective technique for getting day laborers fair pay is educating them about their rights, teaching them how to present a wage and hour complaint and to write down the employer's license plate number and the pay rate they've been promised.

"We're Not for Open Borders, and We're Not for Building Walls"

The AFL-CIO supports legalizing the estimated 12 million illegal immigrants in the United States. The current system, says Acosta, forces undocumented workers into a dungeon economy where they have no practical way to assert their rights to a minimum wage, fair labor conditions or workers' compensation.

"We're not for open borders, and we're not for building walls," he says. "We're for immigration laws that protect the rights of workers, both U.S. workers and immigrants as they come in. That's not an easy position to explain."

Highest on labor's political agenda is the Employee Free Choice Act, which would enable workers to form a union simply if a majority of them signed cards saying that they wanted to join one. The current law requires a majority vote, which gives employers time to intimidate workers, union activists say. With "card check," notes Acosta, the Communications Workers of America was able to organize 50,000 workers at AT&T's wireless division -- most of them in the South, historically the most anti-union region of the country.

Unions are also firmly against "guest worker" programs. The UFCW says that approach "inherently provides employers with the opportunity to abuse and exploit workers" and would "create an underclass." Acosta points out that the Indian shipyard workers at Signal International's Gulf Coast facilities -- who paid $20,000 each to come here, were paid far less than American workers would have been, were charged $1,050 a month to live 24 to a trailer in company labor camps, got only temporary visas instead of the green cards they were promised, and were threatened with deportation when they objected -- were legal guest workers, not undocumented immigrants.

"Enforcement is only going to make it worse," says Alvarado. "It gives employers the element of fear in their favor -- they say, 'I'm risking myself to give you a job, so you better stay quiet.'

"It is impossible to seal the border," he continues. "As long as there's extreme poverty in Latin America and other places, people will go where the jobs are." Although day laborers face increased hostility from the anti-immigration movement and the recession has reduced the amount of construction and landscaping work, "people are not packing up and going back to their home countries" -- not when they can make $60 a day here instead of $5 a day there.

The solution is complex, he says, but any immigration policy "must ensure that the human rights of people who migrate are protected.

"It's a new population of workers. Unions have to understand that their future is tied to immigrants. When you protect the most vulnerable workers, you protect everyone."

Acosta sees a conflict between two models of unionism: one opposed to immigration because it believes that having more workers on the market drives down wages, and the other organizing to "take wages and benefits out of the market." That conflict goes back to the beginning of the U.S. labor movement, with the original AFL focusing on winning higher wages for its constituency of skilled workers, and the CIO emerging in the 1930s by organizing factory workers en masse and campaigning for New Deal social benefits like Social Security and unemployment compensation.

He favors the latter model, arguing that having a strong labor movement can create a society that serves all workers' interests, not just on wages but on issues such as trade policy, the environment and health care.

With 88 percent of the U.S. work force nonunion, Acosta says, "we can't focus just on the interests of our members. It's just not sustainable anymore."

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See more stories tagged with: labor, immigration, unions

Steven Wishnia is a New York-based journalist and musician. The author of Exit 25 Utopia and The Cannabis Companion, he has won two New York City Independent Press Association awards for his coverage of housing issues. He is looking for a job.

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This is insulting to the millions who arrived LEGALLY
Posted by: Bobsays on Aug 5, 2008 3:24 AM   
Current rating: 3    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Why is it so hard to understand that the vast majority of positive immigration has been the legal immigration. Illegal immigration right from the start is a bad dynamic. Once you start ducking and diving, avoiding tax, work legislation and other laws, you are living an outlaw's lifestyle.

Surely, they can get back in the green card lottery like everyone else? It's not like the western world as a whole isn't letting in millions every year as it is (the past ten years have seen the biggest migration wave in history, from the third world to the first). It 's like you have a free buffet at Frank's All You Can Eat, yet some guy not invited, turns up and then pushes a 14-year-old girl's face into the potatoe salad so he can grab another coke.

» Simplistic Comment Posted by: kyledeb
» Huh? What? Posted by: countingdaisies
» RE: Huh? What? Posted by: Lauren
» RE: Huh? What? Posted by: countingdaisies
» The larger point remains Posted by: Joshua Holland
» RE: The larger point remains Posted by: Joshua Holland
Sorry, this comment has been removed from the system.
» RE: The larger point remains Posted by: Old Skeptic
» Keep telling yourself that Posted by: Joshua Holland
My ancestors probably had no papers
Posted by: thornwolf on Aug 5, 2008 3:32 AM   
Current rating: 4    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Certainly the one that arrived with his brothers and sister in 1633 from England had no visa. His and his siblings' descendants later fought in the war of independence, helping to create this ocuntry.

Other of my ancestors later arrived from Ireland in the 19th century. I'm pretty sure they had no papers. They were good workers, though. Still others arrived from Russia in the late 19th century and I imagine they had no papers either. All of them were good industrious members of the community who worked, paid taxes, and contributed to the society.

The only difference now is one of attitude.

» Don't Be So Sure Posted by: edgar1
» PAPERS & DOCUMENTS???? Posted by: gellero1
ILLEGAL ALIENS ARE CRIMINALS
Posted by: HBoyer on Aug 5, 2008 3:57 AM   
Current rating: 3    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
I am a 30 year union member and ILLEGAL ALIENS are costing people like me jobs,dragging down wages, making the greedy rich richer, but that is not the major problem, Making ILLEGAL ALIENS citizens only invite more ILLEGAL ALIENS to America to further drag the standard of living down for the citizens of this once great nation.

Unions don't care who they receive dues from, they have become so desperate to survive they would take union dues from the blind, disabled and Illegal Aliens.

This is all leading to the NORTH AMERICAN UNION. NAFTA requires we open our borders to Canada and Mexico so companies can hire the cheapest workers available, join our economies so Corporations can run a FASCISTS CORPORATE STATE.

HOWARD

Illegal alien or terrorist?
Posted by: Sushi on Aug 5, 2008 4:47 AM   
Current rating: 4    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Was Columbus an illegal alien or a terrorist?

Sushi
"A family reunion is an effective form of birth control."

» Basically a Brave Guy Posted by: edgar1
» RE: Basically a Brave Guy Posted by: herronsmith
» He was a very brave murderer. Posted by: Illiteratilumen
All My Ancestors were here by 1700, and East Coast Illigals Pls Stop Whining
Posted by: lindawageck1 on Aug 5, 2008 5:39 AM   
Current rating: 2    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
That's really all I have to say is East Coast people, please please stop whining. Most of this article was simply a grandson BRAGGING about where his grandparents worked, all your name dropping is typical of people living on the East Coast.
Congratulations, you now sound like a typical East Coast snob.

All four (and more) of my ancestors have been traced back to their native countries.
They were all here long before 1700, meaning they were some of the original ones who arrived in the 1600s. God, I'm so sick and tired of me and my ancestors MAKING this country what it is today, but having you little Johnnie-Come-Lateleys act like your grandparents helped to build this country.

NO. MY people built up this country so your people could come and whine, after being illegal.

In 50 years let's all listen to your children and grand-children whine about all the work THEY'VE done.

Look, the ONLY article you EVER need to write is one in which you are doing nothing but thanking, thanking, thanking.

Now, run along and stop bragging, stop taking credit for stuff the rest of us are
tired of hearing about. Write
about being grateful, okay?
You've have not been here long enough to earn the right to do anything else.

Wait 5 or 6, or 7 generations like all my people have.

And 50-year old White women fired, have it easy getting another job???
Posted by: lindawageck1 on Aug 5, 2008 5:53 AM   
Current rating: 3    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Get real. See, this is what I mean about illegal immigrants and your kids and grandkids.

It's disgusting to read an article where the author points out how difficult it is for brown or black women to get another job after being fired, etc.

Oh, and a 50-year old white woman would have a better experience getting a new job?
(Same skill level). No.

Immigrants kids, stop all the griping. Get in line behind the legals and keep quiet with all the griping and whining.
You and your article sound sooo spoiled.

Bravo!
Posted by: Stephie on Aug 5, 2008 6:31 AM   
Current rating: 4    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Nice family history and a well written account - although I must admit I could not get through all of it. You should be proud of your family history. Fact is - today is today. Times have changed. Perhaps the author has not come to grips with that. Those wishing to come into this country - can. They need to follow the rules. The rules and laws are designed to protect us on many levels. Those who don't obey - are criminals and should be treated as such. Face the facts - Illegal Immigration is at the root of many of the challenges we face as a nation today. My husband came to this country from Hungary. He went through the correct channels. Not once did he think of breaking the laws of the country he wished and worked so hard to call home.

This comment has been removed from the site due to non-compliance with AlterNet's community policies.
» EXCELLENT comment! Posted by: zooeyhall
Simplistic Nativist Comments
Posted by: kyledeb on Aug 5, 2008 7:32 AM   
Current rating: 3    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
I don't know why commenters think they're so clever when they capitalized and highlight the words LEGAL or ILLEGAL.

The U.S. immigration system is broken, and trying to draw a stark line between legal and illegal immigration is not only harmful, it is innacurate.

Almost half of all legal immigrants in the U.S. right now were illegal at one point.

Even sadder, though, is that nativists have the time to sit around all day and comment on articles like this.

» Come on, Kyle Posted by: Joshua Holland
» RE: Like Every Article Posted by: desidid
» RE: Like Every Article Posted by: Joshua Holland
Every nation has the right to control its borders
Posted by: Old Skeptic on Aug 5, 2008 8:04 AM   
Current rating: 4    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
When people cross our borders illegally, they are denying this nation the right to sovereignty. What real need do we have for millions more unskilled, uneducated, even illiterate, day laborers? The only purpose they serve is to provide cheapskate employers with a pool of desperate people who will work for a pittance and allow them to avoid having to pay American wages.

Illegal aliens mostly work for low wages, and those who work "under the radar", like day laborers, pay no taxes other than sales taxes. They do not earn enough to pay enough income and Social Security tax to even begin to pay for all the benefits they and their families receive, such as free education (and free meals at school), free medical care (by walking away from the bills), food stamps and other benefits if they have a child while here, free US citizenship for their anchor babies, and a plethora of other government and private charity benefits that they may access either illegally or legally, once here. They are costing us far more than they are giving in return.

In the meantime, our population is exploding. From 300 million last year, we could jump to close to 500 million by 2050, mostly due to immigration. What about our environment? Our water supplies, which are getting tighter all the time, our salaries and benefits (what's left of them), and so on?

The basic problem which is prodding immigration is a severe oversupply of people in the Third World. The greatest need in the poor countries is birth control, not using First World countries as a dumping ground for their surplus population! We should be sending them contraceptives, not allowing them to invade our land and overpopulate it too!

Let us all agree!
Posted by: Spiritgirl on Aug 5, 2008 8:19 AM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Unless your name is either preceded or followed by a gerund (e.g.-Little Eagle Run), you are illegal. Unless you or your parents can qualify to live on the RESERVATION you are from illegal stock. Face it the "manifest destiny" doctrine produced under President Monroe made it legal for all white people to move west and displace the native nations that lived on them! No sharing, no understanding, forced removal!

Slaves were brought into this country by the millions, and their "free" labor provided the back breaking work that helped to elevate this country into the economic force that it has become! And if you really want to go there, California, Arizona, New Mexico, and Texas were part of Mexico before the white man and the Mexican war, so maybe "they" are just coming back home!


Please understand, before the 1920's-1930's there were no laws for immigration! The plaque on the Statue of Liberty reads: Give me your hungry, your tired, your poor huddled masses.

Can we please connect a few dots here. The "free market" theory that is bandied about isn't free. Before NAFTA, Mexicans may have been coming across the border but not in the numbers that have recently be under reported. NAFTA and all of these "free market" deals has made it impossible for "those people" to make a decent living in their own countries! People wake up, in some of these countries the people are making .50 cents a day! That is not enough to take car e of a family, and I dare any "American" to say that that is possible! Well, now China and India are the places where "cheap labor" is and so the Latin Americans are out of jobs and they come here!

I'd like to ask who is employing these people - those are the ones that are the problem. Another problem is these people aren't making money like that! In some cases they aren't getting paid, because after all who are they going to tell. In some cases they are underpaid, because it is easier to hire them, than to hire union or a citizen that might have to get paid the minimum wage!

Also, let us not pretend that these people are working all white collar jobs. These people are the cleaning crew, your maid, or babysitter, they are picking the tomatoes, or any one of a number of low paid over-worked individuals because those that have money can do exactly what they want to do and are!

So before you continue to yell "alien go home", you might want to start closer to your home. Let's start with Congress that has been bought and paid to do write the rules for the few! Let's start with state and local legislators that don't fine and jail companies that they know are hiring illegals! Let's start with asking for more fairness in our trade deals! Before we start bashing "illegals" let's bash the legals writing and implemented unfair laws all the way around!

» RE: Let us all agree! Posted by: Old Skeptic
My ancestors got their citizenship the old fashioned way
Posted by: sausage on Aug 5, 2008 8:21 AM   
Current rating: 4    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
...they killed Indians. And I'm sure they enslaved an African or two.

In fact my family, or at least someone with my surname, has been on this continent for 350 years or so, long enough that the spelling of the last name, though not the pronunciation, is different than in Great Britain.

So for all you Johnny-Come-Lately dagos, wops, micks, hunkies, polacks, hymies and what have you, who whine that your ancestors came here legally through Ellis Island--though before 1920 or so the only "legal" qualification for entry was to prove one wasn't insane or tubercular--it was my ancestors who brought them here to bust unions and work for slave wages. Kind of like what's happening with today's "illegals."

Oh, and by the way, if some of you Johnny-Come-Lately European-Americans really looked closely at how your ancestors got here, I'll bet more than one walked across the US-Canada boarder like "illegal" Italian immigrant Charles Ponzi of "Ponzi Scheme" fame.

But you know what "illegal" immigration is really about, besides depressing wages?

A few years ago this country almost reached zero population growth (zpg) levels. When that happens the economy is "mature," in other words profit growth for certain industries, say electrical generation and delivery, levels off, profits remain static.

Well, we can't have that in a "free market" economy. We need new "consumers!" So who cares if Jose and maria are here "illegally?" They're new consumers, with the additional benefit of being highly exploitable.

There are a couple of us out here in the Internet ether who've figured it out. And as far as the trust fund babies, who really run things in this nation, are concerned,you Lou Dobbs-cultist are just suckers and they want to keep you that way.

chicken of US imperialism coming home to roast
Posted by: PakiBoy on Aug 5, 2008 8:30 AM   
Current rating: 4    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Immigration is the unintended consequence of 100+ years of US imperialism South of the border.
Since the Spanish-American War, US has pursued regional hegemony over the western hemisphere.

Just between Spanish-American War and the Great Depression (we are all hoping for even a Greater 'Great Depression' today), US sent troops to Latin American countries 32 times. And all for the corporate interests of US elites.

US policy of propping up brutal dictatorships and destroying local economy for the profits of corporations has resulted in the need for these people to come to US.

May be you morons should have thought about the consequences of your illegal and immoral policy.

From stealing land from the natives using genocide to using WMDs in Japan, Vietnam, and Iraq - the progency of Columbus continues to wage war against the world.

Most Cuban immigrants enter the country ILLEGALLY but are given "legal" status regardless.
Posted by: maxpayne on Aug 5, 2008 8:43 AM   
Current rating: 4    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Remember that Elian Gonzalas episode back in 2000? If that kid was Mexican or even Haitian, would the kid even get a pass let alone a "free" one? Go to Florida and see for yourself the glaring RACISM in the double standards treatment of Cubans vs Haitians. And don't expect either party to change that.

People Forget so Quickly
Posted by: paintchips on Aug 5, 2008 8:58 AM   
Current rating: 3    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Senator Pete Domenici's a republican from New Mexico had an undocumented mother.

One of friends currenlty has an undocumented grandmother and I heard her complain about undocumented immigrants and had to call her out on her hypocrisy.

It's pretty common, but it's just kept a family secret. There are lawyers, doctors, professors,and even Washington Lobbyist for Conservative organizations that have been undocumented.

My earlier comment was removed from this board for "non-compliance" with AlterNet policies.
Posted by: Jasonix on Aug 5, 2008 10:27 AM   
Current rating: 3    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Would an AlterNet editor kindly post his reasoning why my original comment was removed? My comment was simply that illegal immigration is a crime, and that we should reform the laws so that we can handle immigration in an appropriate manner. This may include letting in more legal immigrants. I also noted that one of the author's inferences - that immigration has always benefited the country's current residents - does not stand up to historical scrutiny. The Native Americans certainly didn't benefit from white immigration, and one can argue that the massive influx of immigrants from non-English speaking European nations in the late 1800s and early 1900s were a detriment to English-speaking Americans at the time, in large part due to the fact that these folks were brought here specifically to work for less, and that the influx of these folks had a profound affect on American culture and religion, some of which seems negative in hindsight.

I fail to see anything there that warrants censorship. Catholics are free to post their own view that the presence of their religion in America has been a great blessing for us all, and explain their reasons why. Other comments within the last few days on AlterNet call for the genocide of the British and long for an alternate universe in which Protestants never settled North America, and in which the Romans succeeded in the the extermination of early Christians. These comments remain on these boards. I suggested nothing so radical; I merely noted that a particular community of people were brought to the U.S. in circumstances that were against the interests of the folks living here at that time. I also suggested that re-joining California and Arizona to Mexico would be bad for the U.S. at this point in time - I fail to see why such a comment would be controversial.

The removal of my comment was purely because it didn't square with the editorial stance of AlterNet on this one issue. I am disappointed by this instance of hypocrisy and ask that the AlterNet editor who made this decision post his name and rationale here.

» Yes and no Posted by: Joshua Holland
» RE: Yes and no Posted by: Jasonix
» RE: Yes and no Posted by: Joshua Holland
» RE: Yes and no Posted by: YogiBear
» RE: Yes and no Posted by: cmaciain
» RE: Yes and no Posted by: Lauren
» RE: Yes and no Posted by: Joshua Holland
» RE: Yes and no Posted by: YogiBear
» Us Right Wingers Get the Boot Posted by: theVRWCwhodatesLiberals
» Nonsense Posted by: Joshua Holland
Sorry, this comment has been removed from the system.
Sorry, this comment has been removed from the system.
I can ramble on however
Posted by: theVRWCwhodatesLiberals on Aug 5, 2008 10:45 AM   
Current rating: 1    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
I dont agree with any of you people politically however I can agree with most on your bloggers today when it comes to this issue. Imagine if you was on a boat to Ellis Island and you was found to have a disease or have a criminal history, you just waited the whole boat ride to the US to get sent back to your home nation. I know the dirty little secret that Liberals just want new voters because if these illegals was voting republican, Nancy herself would be at the border with a M16 shoeing them back to were they came from.
I have to say thank you for having some common sense when it come to the issue of illegal immigration. This bleeping guy wants someone to cut his grass for 6 bucks an hour. Myself someone who works low wage jobs the last thing I need is someone lowering my wages in a city like Boston, MA. I would pick lettuce however I wanna get paid more than 7 bucks an hour I want a half in hour break and get paid overtime after 40 plus hours of work. I dont think I'm asking for too much?
I also say if they have a hard time finding workers for the Cape Cod summers, take a bus in the inner city neighborhood of Boston area and pick up those kids for your summer work. Gets them off the street and put some money in there pocket: wait that just a too much of a good fucking idea. I swear Illegal Immigrants are the new black kids. Oh well I tried.

» Nancy? Posted by: edgar1
» RE: Nancy? Posted by: Old Skeptic
» The House Speaker (of Moscow) Posted by: theVRWCwhodatesLiberals
» I was the pawn in the war machine Posted by: theVRWCwhodatesLiberals
This comment has been removed from the site due to non-compliance with AlterNet's community policies.
This comment has been removed from the site due to non-compliance with AlterNet's community policies.
It's not about being 'anti -immigrant' !!!!!!
Posted by: gellero1 on Aug 5, 2008 12:56 PM   
Current rating: 3    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
"central beliefs of that anti-immigrant movement: the argument that "our ancestors all came here legally"; the racist attitudes that immigrants are alien scum; and the idea that immigrants, especially illegal ones, drive down wages."


!. It is not the 'anti-immigrant movement'......it is the anti ILLEGAL immigrant movement.

2. Aside from your grandfather's visa problem, almost ALL our ANCESTORS came LEGALLY with papers in hand, of within our LAWS.

3. I doubt the people in my community think Dr Narajian, from Iran, a NEUROSURGEON, is 'scum'. Or Dr. Chada, the PULMONARY specialist, from Punjab, India.
They probably DO think the 26 year old cuban immigrant guy who shot ( unprovoked) a 30 year old cop in the face....dead....is scum. By the way, no deportation for illegal Cubans......Cuba won't take them back.

4. Every academic study on mass illegal immigration in the workforce shows that wages are depressed by illegals.

READ ABOUT WAGE DEPRESSION HERE

» Speak for yourself Posted by: Joshua Holland
» RE: Speak for yourself Posted by: edgar1
» RE: Speak for yourself Posted by: Joshua Holland
» RE: Just speak Posted by: L.A.Lynn
» RE: Just speak Posted by: cmaciain
» RE: Just speak Posted by: Dboy
Sorry, this comment has been removed from the system.
Why can't they come legally?
Posted by: cmaciain on Aug 5, 2008 4:22 PM   
Current rating: 4    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
I see nothing wrong with making people jump through immigration hoops. Lord knows, other countries do it. If people want to immigrate here, they come legally. That's it. Period. If they are here illegally, they get deported. Just like US citizens do if they overstay their welcomes in other countries. Let everyone who wants in, fill out the paperwork and pay the fees and WAIT. And for all those "illegal immigrant rights" people, why aren't you demanding rights for US citizens who want to emigrate? Why aren't you telling the UK, Australia and other countries they have to accept US citizens whether the US citizen followed the rules or not? Is it true justice you want or just justice for your favored group? If you support illegal immigration, then start telling the other countries they need to accept our people illegally. And if Mexico deports or jails ONE US citizen for being there illegally, I expect the illegal immigration rights crowd to be there. Yet, I haven't seen a single person doing that. Make it easy-Make it simple, punish the employers HEAVILY, deport illegal immigrants to their home countries and make our neighbors control their citizens. Mexico can and should police their people.

This comment has been removed from the site due to non-compliance with AlterNet's community policies.
Illegal Immigrants
Posted by: mclame on Aug 6, 2008 2:07 AM   
Current rating: 2    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
GO HOME, WERE FULL, NO VACANCY. IN OTHERWORDS, GO SPONGE OFF YOUR BUDDY HUGO. HE HAS LOTS OF OIL.

it's not about illegal
Posted by: Mexitli on Aug 6, 2008 10:44 AM   
Current rating: 3    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
it's about Mexican lol

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