IMMIGRATION  
comments_imageCOMMENTS: 89

Right-Wingers Are Stirring Up Xenophobia to Swiftboat Health Reform

Misleading people is really the only option for those bent on killing the reform movement.
August 4, 2009  |  
 
 
 
LIKE THIS ARTICLE ?
Join our mailing list:

Sign up to stay up to date on the latest Immigration headlines via email.

 
 
Advertisement
 

Along with death and taxes, a third thing of which one can be certain is that conservative politicians will exploit Americans’ concerns about illegal immigration to rally opposition to any policy that might help ordinary working people.

The specter of unauthorized migrants sucking hungrily from the public teat is a tried-and-true method of turning people against their own interests. 

We heard the narrative used to attack the stimulus package, federal aid to needy families, housing assistance and the State Children’s Health Insurance Program (S-CHIP).

Forget about how these measures might impact their constituents -- lawmakers told us they had to oppose them to prevent hard-working Americans from being forced to subsidize foreigners who had broken the law. It fits neatly within the larger right-populist memes that fuel much of the immigration debate -- an out-of-control government that doesn’t only fail to uphold the law, but also, unimaginably, offers benefits to "illegal aliens" that are denied to ordinary Americans.  

So it was inevitable that the unsettled and emotionally charged issue of immigration would be used as a cudgel against health reform. And it has -- not only by the usual motley crew of factually challenged pundits and radio hate-jocks, but by a number of conservative lawmakers.  

It is nothing short of a Big Lie. The bill passed by the Senate Health, Education, Labor and Pensions (HELP) Committee says: "Eligible individuals are citizens or lawfully admitted permanent residents of the U.S." In the House, a section of the Tri-Committee bill titled "NO FEDERAL PAYMENT FOR UNDOCUMENTED ALIENS," states unequivocally: "Nothing in this subtitle shall allow federal payments for affordability credits on behalf of individuals who are not lawfully present in the United States."   

As the saying goes, everyone’s entitled to their own opinion, but not their own facts. Yet the facts haven’t prevented Republicans opposed to Democrats’ health proposals from claiming the opposite to be true.

Rep. Paul Broun, R-Ga., drawled to reporters, "This health care plan, Obamacare, is going to give every single one of those illegal aliens health insurance at the cost of taxpayers." Rep. Todd Akin, R-Mo., came up with the exquisitely moronic talking point, "if you don’t like illegal immigration, then you’re not going to like this bill either." Rep. Steve King, R-Iowa, even went so far as to issue a press release falsely claiming that a Congressional Budget Office analysis projected that the House health legislation would cover 5.6 million unauthorized immigrants by 2019. 

Of course, the CBO never said any such thing. Because just as the idea that we don’t sink an enormous amount of resources into punishing those who break our immigration laws is patently false, so too is the entire issue of unauthorized immigrants getting Cadillac benefits from the government. The nonpartisan FactCheck.org noted, "illegal immigrants aren’t eligible for federal health programs under current law." 

They’re right. The reality is that the whole issue is a red herring -- the U.S. denies virtually all public benefits to unauthorized immigrants. In fact, we even restrict their availability to legal immigrants.  

The very few exceptions to that rule amount to a miniscule fraction of public budgets. And they're for reasons that most people would agree are eminently reasonable.

At least, that’s my opinion. Here are the facts -- you decide whether they constitute a "free lunch for illegal immigrants," as some claim. 

The 1996 welfare law (the "Personal Responsibility and Work Opportunity Reconciliation Act" for those scoring at home), which governs all federal benefits for the poor (not just health benefits), divides noncitizens into two categories in terms of eligibility for government assistance: "qualified" and "not qualified." All unauthorized immigrants are "not qualified," but there are also limitations on public benefits for "qualified" legal immigrants. (Even if they work and pay taxes and have all their papers in order, they’re still ineligible for the first five years of their residency.) 


Joshua Holland is an editor and senior writer at AlterNet.
Email
Print
Share
Post on reddit
Post on stumbleupon
Post on facebook
Post on digg
Post on twitter
Post on delicious
LIKED THIS ARTICLE? JOIN OUR EMAIL LIST
Stay up to date with the latest Immigration headlines via email
See more stories tagged with: immigration, king, health care, medicare, medicaid, s-chip, health reform, akin, bround


Comments are closed-

This comment has been removed from the site due to non-compliance with AlterNet's community policies.
» I guess "love thy neighbor".... Posted by: norsegirl

Comments are closed-

Don Quixote
Posted by: Don Quixot on Aug 4, 2009 1:49 AM   
Current rating: 3    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Funny paradox. The US is a country built by foreigners who, once they became American, considered themselves superior to foreigners, dominated foreigners, ended up dominated by foreigners, and have the worst health system of all foreign modern countries.

[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]

» I can say the sky is Yellow Too Posted by: johnwinthrop

Comments are closed-

Blue Cross Democrats
Posted by: Tom Degan on Aug 4, 2009 2:06 AM   
Current rating: 4    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
You would think that Health Care Reform would be a foregone conclusion since the Democrats control both houses of congress, wouldn't you? Yeah, I would, too.

Those Blue Dog Democrats need to be put to sleep.

The Children of 1977

Tom Degan
Goshen, NY

[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]

» Zinoviev Speaks? Posted by: luzmejor
» Segregation is alive and well Posted by: johnwinthrop

Comments are closed-

Health Care - YES; Illegal Aliens - NO
Posted by: Brez on Aug 4, 2009 2:26 AM   
Current rating: 3    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Again, Alternet tries to use the bully-pulpit to further your failed and fruitless campaign to keep the illegal aliens here who are taking jobs that American want and need. (Yes, Josh, we will work for a fair, even a minimum wage if we can, if someone doesn't undercut us because your coprorate puppet masters pay them off the books.)

Just like the crooks that want to keep us from a public option, you subvert the real issue (affordable available quality care for everyone) into yet another cry for open borders and anti-American worker employment for illegals.

What we need to do is provide bus or plane (they are not, by any means, all from Latin America) tickets to any and all illegals in lieu of jobs and services. We're full up here.

[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]


Comments are closed-

This comment has been removed from the site due to non-compliance with AlterNet's community policies.
» RE: Let Em In; Let Em ALL In Posted by: luzmejor
» Americans First Posted by: johnwinthrop

Comments are closed-

Great article! Thanks Josh. The Trolls are out in force today.
Posted by: AngryWhiteFemale on Aug 4, 2009 3:46 AM   
Current rating: 3    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
See, facts and logic have trolldom quaking in its boots every time because they can't respond at the same level.

I hope THIS one is read on the House Floor too.

[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]


Comments are closed-

Why won't the liberals try pushing for multiple payer like Germany or single payer instead?
Posted by: forever1984 on Aug 4, 2009 3:56 AM   
Current rating: 3    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Under either of those two plans, illegals won't be able to steal from hardworking legal immigrants and natives. Obama's plan is a sham. Why do liberals complicate everything?

[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]

» Good point, Stormtrooper! Posted by: Centavo

Comments are closed-

Who Will Get What?
Posted by: drricklippin on Aug 4, 2009 4:14 AM   
Current rating: 4    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Legal vs. Illegal?

Poor vs. Rich?

Old vs. Young?

Gentically (chance) made ill vs Behaviorally (choice) made ill?

To me the issue of WHAT we all we get in US Medicine if far more important than WHO?. That is because about 1/3rd of current medical interventions are not proven to be effective at best and downright dangerous at worst

(But Josh- you are correct. If we really solved the immigration issue the right wing would lose another fear-mongering tactic)

Dr. Rick Lippin
Southampton,Pa

[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]


Comments are closed-

Radical Right
Posted by: warrior woman on Aug 4, 2009 4:42 AM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
This is an example of what the right wing media is telling their readers:

What to ask your congressman about healthcare reform

Jim Brown - OneNewsNow - 8/3/2009 7:00:00 AM http://www.onenewsnow.com/Politics/Default.aspx?id=627392
"A former Republican presidential candidate has compiled a list of ten questions to ask your representative and senators during the month of August regarding healthcare reform legislation in Congress.
American Values president Gary Bauer says the first question constituents should be asking members of Congress is whether they will oppose any healthcare bill that uses tax dollars to pay for abortions.

"The politicians, particularly in the White House, and people like Nancy Pelosi are playing games about this, but the evidence is overwhelming that abortion will, in fact, be covered under any kind of national healthcare bill that is now being considered here in Washington," he points out.

Lawmakers also need to be asked if they are concerned that the legislation promotes euthanasia and rationing of healthcare that could adversely affect senior citizens, Bauer suggests.
"Billions of dollars are going to be taken out of Medicare under this proposal at the same time that millions of new people are going to be made eligible for Medicare, so it is inevitable that for older Americans, healthcare under this proposal is going to be rationed," he adds.

Bauer contends that there are many advisors to President Obama and on the political left who think it is inappropriate and unwise to continue giving people medical treatment when they reach a certain age or are suffering from dementia or Alzheimer's disease."
At this site is the actual list of questions:
http://www.ouramericanvalues.org/files/
CONCERNS%20&%20Questions%20on%20healthcare%20reform.pdf
They are listed in this order:
"1. ABORTION
2. EUTHANASIA
3. COST
4. RATIONING CARE
5. MORE BURDENS ON SMALL BUSINESSES
6. QUALITY CARE
7. THE PEOPLE ARE BEING IGNORED
8. LOSS OF FREEDOM
9. RACIAL PREFERENCES
10.PRE-EXISTING CONDITIONS
I continue to be amazed at the brazen lies of this radical group of which Michele Bachmann is a part. It is no less than cult behavior and the people following these "leaders" will go right off the cliff with them. Fact and reality have nothing to do with their "rationale".

[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]

» RE: adical Right Posted by: Bob Graham Las Vegas

Comments are closed-

Nicely Done
Posted by: weightman on Aug 4, 2009 5:00 AM   
Current rating: 3    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Well I believe, Mr. Holland, since I have been visiting AlterNet, this is about the best piece I've seen you put together. You employ reliable resources, supporting your position with sound data. Nicley done.

So I'm going to forego the usual "defacto one-party state political cost-benefit analysis corporate pornopropaganda paranoia bullshit" based criticism.....for now.

I would, however, like to see an update on Sheriff Joe Arpaio of Maricopa County, Arizona, in light of Obama's plan to expand the controversial 287(g) program, which allows local law enforcement agencies to enter into agreements with Homeland Security’s Immigration and Customs Enforcement, or ICE, effectively giving local police the powers of federal immigration agents.
Everybody bitches about Lou Dobbs. But he isn't carrying a gun and breaking down doors. He isn't using armed law enforcement officers to "sweep" the streets of people "suspected" of being illegal immigrants. (Guess what tips them off.)
Sheriff Joe is supposed to be under federal investigation. What's up with that? Plus, recent revelations on ICE activities would make a fresh look at Sheriff Joe all the more timely. He is, after all, America's Favorite Fascist.

And again, nicely done.

[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]

» RE: Nicely Done Posted by: weightman
» Sherriff Joe is alive and well Posted by: timenotonmyside

Comments are closed-

Stories of the Hour
Posted by: Lilly on Aug 4, 2009 6:01 AM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
I hang out on right-wing websites because they fascinate me. From that perspective I can say that the effort to rev up resentment of immigrants receiving health care never got nearly as far as "health care will be rationed" and "seniors will be euthanized", both ideas now being very hot---they have also been picked up by the MSM. The paranoia has no limits; one poster to townhall.com claimed that Obama is having gulags built where elders will be sent to die without medical care. The lie that seniors must accept mandatory "Death Counseling" has been traced to Betsy McCaughey, employee of a business-serving conservative think tank, but it was quickly picked up by Senator Boehner and thus went into the conservative bloodstream. It seems that positive correlation exists between "extreme craziness of idea" and "eagerness to embrace idea".

The left has not done NEARLY enough to counter the right, which does not scruple to lie, and the right lies dramatically.

[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]

» RE: Stories of the Hour Posted by: Aimleft

Comments are closed-

The ER
Posted by: LeaderofMen on Aug 4, 2009 6:24 AM   
Current rating: 4    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Today, it is federally mandated that anyone - ANYONE - who walks into an emergency room, and can wait long enough, will be treated. ANYONE. BY LAW.

What's also so is that hospitals will not be reimbursed by anyone if that person is not able to pay. Thus, a hospital will lose money for every single person who enters their ER and is unable to pay.

This applies equally to low and no income Americans or illegal aliens.

The Right is a massive pile of lying sh!t for excluding this bit of data about health care and the need for reform.

[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]

» RE: The ER Posted by: drp
» RE: The ER Posted by: johnwinthrop

Comments are closed-

What happened to society....
Posted by: Spiritgirl on Aug 4, 2009 7:01 AM   
Current rating: 4    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Society as we see it is crumbling, the rich are getting richer, the prostitutes in Congress which according to the Constitution are supposed to represent us - yet they are working for the Corporate Oligarchy. What is it that Americans don't want to see? Why have they bought into the obfuscations and an "ideology" that has been working against 95% of Americans?! What must happen before they wake up and see, that sometimes it is for the benefit of all! Why don't they see that a public option that controls costs will benefit everyone, whether you have insurance or not!

How many right-wingers must loose their insurance, their homes, their livelihoods before they are willing to see that truth? How much more dumbed down must Americans be before they start to realize that this country is being driven back to "serf" conditions all under the rubric of a "free-market" economy! Why is "profit" the only motive that people want to understand, especially as the "profit" is not benefiting any but the very top! All of those bible thumpers (whatever your bible is) why do you not understand ""The King will reply, 'I tell you the truth, whatever you did for one of the least of these brothers of mine, you did for me.'" Matthew 25:39-41 or what about: "" 'Do not seek revenge or bear a grudge against one of your people, but love your neighbor as yourself. I am the LORD." Leviticus 19:17-19

[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]

» RE: What happened to society.... Posted by: JenniferBedingfield

Comments are closed-

Healthcare reform and the rightwingers
Posted by: JenniferBedingfield on Aug 4, 2009 7:05 AM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
The right wingers never treated their own citizens in this country with any respect. I am no fan of Obama's health care package but not because of race but because of the fact that everyone but Big Insurance/Pharma loses and big. The right wingers actually support such plans but because their man Mccain isn't doing it and their party is out of power, of course their job is to throw red meat and stir up hate and division some more. All other industrial nations are providing single payer health care or a genuine form of universal healthcare that covers everyone without taxing them. The rightwing has no problem playing the culture class warfare game to keep the public distracted. The argument "we should not pass health care reform because illegals will get it too" is like saying a company should slit its wrists and lay off employees and not hire new ones because "illegals" will be employed too. It was the rightwing policies of NAFTA, union smashing, privatization,deregulation, offshoring, etc ... that created this immigration mess in the first place and so far, they're scared that their policies have been coming home to roost. Besides, one question to ask you rightwingers out there. Why did you support helping rightwinger Calderon steal the Mexican election even when it was clear that he was for more oppression especially of women and children and more immigrant dumping while his opponent Obrador would have worked on improving the economic conditions inside Mexico so that citizens wouldn't go desperately crossing the US/Mexico border and Corporate America wouldn't be mooching off illegal near-slave labor?

[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]


Comments are closed-

UTMB galveston-- an example
Posted by: drp on Aug 4, 2009 7:19 AM   
Current rating: 4    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
The University of Texas Medical Branch (UTMB) on Galveston Island has a historic policy of treating all comers. If you can make it to "the Island", they will treat you.

Uniquely among Texas Medical Schools, the University of Texas System owns the teaching hospital. So, the cost of treating "unsponsored patients" ( those without insurance, medicare or medicaid ) falls on the UT system.

The main group here is undocumented aliens, whose treatment has severely strained the University finances. One trick is to make it to Galveston and have your "anchor baby" at UTMB, delivered for free.

The result has been a severe strain on University finances. So, UTMB has been laying off faculty and staff for several years.

The final straw was Hurricaine Ike, which the UT regents used ans an excuse to Ike lay off 3K more faculty members and try to move the Hospital to the mainland. Admittedly seven feet of water in the main hospitals was also a consideration. The old UTMB policy of "take all comers" is also being reassessed.

A national health program would be good for UTMB, since it would ease the strain of treating unsponsored patients on UT system finances and put on taxpayers in general. Where this is a good idea in general is another issue.

[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]


Comments are closed-

b kenneth mcgee author: eyes shut tight
Posted by: rfgtile on Aug 4, 2009 8:58 AM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
In Germany in the 1930's the Nazi's were considered "crazies"... the world found out almost too late... and the "crazies" almost destroyed the world as we know it.

The right wing "crazies" in this country cannot be laughed off.

"Never again"

[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]


Comments are closed-

It isn't xenophobia to object to being robbed
Posted by: Old Skeptic on Aug 4, 2009 9:02 AM   
Current rating: 3    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Our country is being taken for a ride by illegal aliens and their families, and this is especially true about health care. Illegal aliens can go to any ER and at least get their immediate problem dealt with. Their hordes of kids, if they are born here, are de facto citizens, although they should not be, and can usually qualify for Medicaid or county health benefits. They can even qualify for welfare benefits, which of course, good old illegal alien mom and dad get to spend.

Very few illegal aliens make enough money to pay enough in taxes to cover even part of their medical care or other so-called "rights", such as education for their hordes of kids, free meals at school, free immunizations at county health clinics, etc. They are mostly leeches, living off our economic blood while contributing little more than "grunt" labor. They have no right to be here, and should be returned, along with their families, to their home countries.

The US simply cannot continue to have the excess population of the Third World dumped across its borders without becoming a part of the Third World in turn.

[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]


Comments are closed-

Immigration 'Enforcement' lets illegals go
Posted by: pg on Aug 4, 2009 9:33 AM   
Current rating: 3    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
The Washington TimesTuesday, August 4, 2009
In an apparent vendetta against a sheriff in Arizona who is tough on illegal immigration, the Obama administration has crossed another boundary. The treatment of Maricopa County Sheriff Joe Arpaio is yet another sign of the administration's dangerous hyperpoliticization of federal law enforcement.

- sheriff's department requested permission from U.S. Immigration and Customs Enforcement (ICE) to detain 13 illegal immigrants and transfer them to ICE's custody. The end result, amidst conflicting stories, was that all 13 illegals were let go.

Read it here yourself
Washington Times

Its not xenophobia it is taxpayers rightly concerned about universal healthcare with open borders

[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]


Comments are closed-

Thankfully Canada is sane on these issues
Posted by: chaoslegs on Aug 4, 2009 9:36 AM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
From 1989-1993 I attend the University of Toronto on a student visa as I am a US citizen. During the first year, I paid roughly $180 for 6 months of health care coverage for the Ontario Health Insurance Plan (OHIP). I was not working, as I thought it would be a bit challenging as a non-citizen.

During the remaining years, they changed how the non-working contributed, and all I had to do was show my student visa, that I was a legal citizen, and they would issue the OHIP card until my visa expired.

Now I realize that would cause some people to have their heads explode. So be it. The reality is I was a healthy young adult who utilized the campus clinic twice for strep, never using the OHIP system. But the civility of offering the system to legal residents is what makes Canada a more sane country than the US these days.

I cannot comment directly on the Canadian health care system as I didn't really use it. However, my friends in their 30s, some in 40s, would not take the US system. And some of these folks are fairly conservative in their political leanings.

[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]


Comments are closed-

Living And Dying With Dignity.
Posted by: melpol on Aug 4, 2009 10:07 AM   
Current rating: 1    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Taxpayers should not bear the responsibility of keeping a cancer infested person alive. Fortunately terminally ill patients will be left to die under the new federal health plan. But those that have saved for a rainy day will be able to stay alive until they run out of cash. The new heath plan will clear the hospitals of penniless Cancer and Pneumonia patients and keep the beds open for the curable. Encouraging the terminally ill to commit suicide is in the interest of most of those who are forced to live in shelters. It would open up over a hundred thousand dwellings to healthy Americans. It would also give those ready to die a last chance to do a good deed before they depart. The burden of keeping alive the terminally ill is no longer being accepted by the public. Most taxpayers believe that terminal illness is a personal problem and should not be shared

[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]


Comments are closed-

Nationalize insurance co
Posted by: Jeanne on Aug 4, 2009 10:25 AM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Would nationalizing the health insurance companies work? Maybe even the threat of it would make them back off and fight fair. OK. I know that is crazy, but it is one way to achieve single payer....

[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]


Comments are closed-

The truth shall set you free!
Posted by: CaliJim on Aug 4, 2009 11:03 AM   
Current rating: 2    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
The reality is that thousands of Americans die every year, because their insurance companies deny them care or search for a technicality that will allow them to terminate their insurance when they are extremely ill and desperately need the care. That is a FACT.

Speculation on the fantasy that the new health reform will result in "Killing Granny" is pure scare tactic hokum, just like the "mushroom cloud" they used to scare us into invading Iraq. The insurance companies and their lackeys are desperately trying anything they can think of to stop the health care reform, but - since they can't actually say "Hey...we'll stop making obscene profits and salaries if you do that!", they come up with these lies to scare people.

Medicare has extremely high approval ratings...higher than many, if not most, of the for-profit health care plans...as well as much lower administrative costs. Try asking the average senior if you can take away their Medicare, but you better stand back...you might get hit with a cane!

At least 47 million Americans uninsured and increasing by an estimated 14, 000 a day who are losing their health insurance. Premiums rising by at least 7% a year, despite continually reduced coverage and hard work by the insurance companies to deny coverage or cancel insurance for people who become seriously ill. We simply can't afford to do nothing! For those who say..."Wait...slow down! Don't rush into this!", I have to ask...after 60 years of waiting for health care reform, when will it finally be time? If not now...when? Of course, the people saying "Slow down...wait a while" actually mean..."Never, never, never, never!" Their priorities are the profits of the insurers...not the health of our citizens.

We spend at least double the amount of other industrialized nations for our health care, but are at the bottom of the list in terms of life expectancy and general overall health. The claim that we have the best health care in the world is a lie...except for possibly the politicians, the rich and a relatively few lucky others. What we have is the MOST EXPENSIVE health care with the worst return on investment in the world...and it's about time it was fixed!

The Republican positions on this are lies, pure and simple. They often quote the Lewin Group in their attacks on health care reform - often adding the words "private" and "independent" to Lewin Group. Another fact. The Lewin Group is definitely NOT independent - it's a wholly owned subsidiary of UnitedHealth Group, which was fined $400 million for basically cheating their customers, doctors and hospitals, so it's obvious what their viewpoint is...and it's not remotely related to a fair, unbiased review of the current health care system or any proposed changes to it.

[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]

» RE: The truth shall set you free! Posted by: ForFreedom

Comments are closed-

joshua holland is a horse's ass
Posted by: collins101 on Aug 4, 2009 11:36 AM   
Current rating: 2    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
obama's healthcare will drown us in debt but Holland, just like all the other obama athletic supporters, doesn't have a clue. Obama is as interested in our well being as charlie manson. What will straighten out this health care business is single-payer. Holland and Obama are against it.

[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]

» Really? Posted by: Joshua Holland
» His anger may be understandable ... Posted by: Joshua Holland
» Look in a mirror? Posted by: chaoslegs

Comments are closed-

Illegal means NOT LEGAL
Posted by: timenotonmyside on Aug 4, 2009 12:57 PM   
Current rating: 4    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Get your facts straight about immigration whether it be legal or illegal before you spew.

Another House Committee Rejects Closing Health Coverage Loophole for Illegal Aliens
Last week, another committee in the House of Representatives had a chance to close one of the many loopholes in the House health care bill that would open up taxpayer-funded health care benefits for illegal aliens. Unfortunately, by a vote of 28 to 29, the Energy and Commerce Committee narrowly defeated an amendment offered by Rep. Nathan Deal (R-GA) that would close one of those loopholes. (Amendment Language and Vote Results).

Congressman Deal's amendment would have continued to require that the government verify whether someone enrolling in Medicaid is not an illegal alien. (See video of Rep. Deal explaining his amendment). Section 1702 of the House bill reads that States "shall accept without further determination the enrollment… of an individual determined… to be a non-traditional Medicaid eligible individual." Concerns have been raised about whether a "non-traditional Medicaid eligible individual" would include illegal aliens and that the prohibition against verifying eligibility contained in Section 1702 would allow illegal aliens to enroll in Medicaid. (House bill).

On a related note, one of the nation's largest retailers this week announced support for free health care for illegal aliens. While speaking at a convention of the National Council of La Raza held in Chicago, Dr. John Agwunobi, the senior vice-president who runs the Wal-Mart unit that includes the company's health clinics, stated: "We believe strongly that everyone should have access to affordable health insurance. Everyone." (WBEX Radio, July 27, 2009). In late June, the National Council of La Raza issued a statement demanding that Congress give illegal aliens taxpayer-funded health care benefits. Last week, an unidentified member of the Congressional Hispanic Caucus said: "We're pushing to include everyone in the health care bill. Everyone."

All major studies of the impact of illegal immigration on local communities have come to the conclusion that there is a major fiscal cost to the local taxpayers. Studies of these costs were done in the 1990s by the Urban Institute1 and by Dr. Donald Huddle,2 a Rice University economics professor. Both studies found major net costs — after subtracting for taxes collected — associated with illegal immigration. In 1996 the National Academies of Science issued a report titled “The New Americans,” that studied the economic and fiscal impact of immigration — they did not differentiate between legal and illegal immigrants. That study found that, “In the short term, today’s immigrants impose costs on some state and local governments by using more in government services than they pay in taxes… In some states, this burden can be substantial: In California, for example, the panel calculates an additional annual tax burden of $1,178 per household headed by a U.S. native.”

In the past two years, fiscal cost studies for California, Arizona, Texas and Florida looking at the same cost factors studied by the Urban Institute 10 years earlier, i.e., education3, emergency medical care and incarceration. Findings of the annual net fiscal costs were:

California $8.8 billion ($1,183 per native household)
Arizona
$1.03 billion ($717 per native household)

Texas
$3.73 billion ($725 per native household)

Florida4 $.91 billion ($315 per native household)



These studies were done in 2004 and 2005, and the rapid continuing increase in the illegal immigrant population in each of these states would result in higher estimates of the fiscal cost today.

[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]


Comments are closed-

Confused about the health care issue?
Posted by: willymack on Aug 4, 2009 1:43 PM   
Current rating: 4    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Don't be. It's really very simple.
About 76% of us want a "public" option. Single-payer universal health care would be best.
The other 24% of us are composed of gullible fools who couldn't escape a Chineese finger puzzle or find their way across town without help. They simply will NEVER understand that they'll benefit from true reform along with the rest of us.
Then there are the forces of the Dark Side. Their names are legend, and all-pervasive.
They're the ones who don't care who gets hurt, goes bankrupt, or dies from lack of proper care as long as their obscene profits are preserved. They have bought and paid for "friends" at all levels of government. None of these people have any morals, ethics, or scruples, and they'll stop at NOTHING to defeat a fair and more HUMANE health care system.

[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]


Comments are closed-

Public Health Plan Will Accomplish The Opposite of Its Intent
Posted by: ForFreedom on Aug 4, 2009 2:41 PM   
Current rating: 1    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Great article if you don't care about facts. It's ironic that the article said something to the effect that you can have your own opinion but not your own facts. Here they are:

HR3200 does not grant affordability credits to illegal immigrants, but DOES grant them access to the plans. What this means is that taxpayers will not be paying for Illegal Immigrant care directly, but will be supporting illegals through premium payments based on the fact that the illegal population will be one of adverse selection (Those who need care, join. Healthy illegals would not join as all legal citizens would be required to do, since they're off the books.) Cited here:

p.73 of HR3200 (the house bill) states:
13 SEC. 202. EXCHANGE-ELIGIBLE INDIVIDUALS AND EMPLOYERS.

(a) ACCESS TO COVERAGE.—In accordance with this
section, all individuals are eligible to obtain coverage
through enrollment in an Exchange-participating health
benefits plan offered through the Health Insurance Ex-
change unless such individuals are enrolled in another
qualified health benefits plan or other acceptable coverage.


In addition, there is a section of the code that grants both access to the plans AND affordability credits to dozens of definitions of legal aliens. Maybe Americans care, maybe they don't, but those are the facts of HR3200.

Definitions of legal aliens

On the issue of the need for competition as cited in the linked report, I believe both conservatives and liberals would agree that increased competition is needed. Unfortunately, HR3200 will decrease competition by eliminating the private insurers over time.

On the issue of CEO compensation, folks, health care is a competitive business and requires competitive compensation to recruit talented leadership. When compared to other industries, the top 4 Health care CEOS fall at only #53 on top 500 CEO,#76, #86, and #199 on the list and it goes down from there:

Forbes reports CEO compensation

Profit and compensation are what drive innovation and creativity. The elimination of profit as a motive will cause massive waste, fraud and the elimination of the innovation in health care that Americans have come to expect. They're the fuel of a capitalist society which we were once pruod to be.

Here's what everyone, I think, can agree on:

1. Reform is needed.
2. Everyone should be able to access coverage.
3. We need to eliminate pre-existing cond exclusions.
4. Choice is better than lack of choice.
5. Americans want the ability to make health care decisions along with their provider.
6. We should not pass on costs to our children. We need to solve this generation's problem in this generation.


Responsible Health Care Legislation

[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]


Comments are closed-

The Health Care Reform Bill is in its FIRST stages, there will be many changes and amendments by
Posted by: avidAmerican on Aug 4, 2009 3:06 PM   
Current rating: 3    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
the time it is ready to vote on. It must go thru the House and the Senate. The other version is not even finished yet. After the Senate, it goes to Committee. There it gets finalized and ready for final votes of the House and Senate. No point in getting so hepped up right now, by the time it is finished, it may look a lot different. This is just one version of the outline; there is much to come. I watch the Senate daily and the House during quorum calls. Why don't you all just wait until it is all finished to start your whining? Right now you are just wasting your breath. It still has a long way to go.

[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]


Comments are closed-

Sign these petitions http://bit.ly/drug_benefit http://bit.ly/HR676 http://bit.ly/single_payer_ross
Posted by: www.democratz.org on Aug 4, 2009 3:14 PM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]

Comments are closed-

Absolutely no question about it.
Posted by: talkville on Aug 4, 2009 4:20 PM   
Current rating: 1    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Especially following telecom 'reform' and 'reform' of FCC and related agencies, it is precisely and accurately the very purpose of the Public Relations and the Advertising Sector to mis-lead -- with regards to consumer products of all kinds - ideologic, cultural and material. That is their bread, butter, caviar and private islands. And these companies are not only domestic but trans-national. Monitoring "stories" and "news" from every part of the world has become a paramount concern for the left.

Keep on keeping on!

[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]


Comments are closed-

Lies, lies, lies
Posted by: bettyn on Aug 4, 2009 4:52 PM   
Current rating: 3    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
The rightwingnuts and Faux Noise are spreading so many lies about this healthcare program that Obama and the rest of the Democrats are going to have to go over bit by bit EXACTLY what this healthcare bill will do for the people of this country. I have heard more wacky and scary pronouncements from the Repigs over this program than any other program ever proposed by our government. It's beyond ridiculous that everytime someone proposes a healthcare bill, we have this barrage of bullshit from the right and the corporate pigs in the healthcare industry that scares the sheeple half to death! I am sick and tied of this baloney! We need to get this program passed NOW! Somebody has to shoot down the BS once and for all!

[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]


Comments are closed-

This bill deserves to fail and it's not because of the immigrants issue.
Posted by: maxpayne on Aug 4, 2009 9:24 PM   
Current rating: 3    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
The whole bill so far is a sham and a bunk and will only get worse as it gets further modified. Real healthcare reform need not be 1000s of pages.

[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]


Comments are closed-

Myth vs Virtual Reality
Posted by: femtobeam on Aug 4, 2009 10:04 PM   
Current rating: 1    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
The reform and the storm over it does not look at the real problem which is privatization of all aspects of healthcare. The owners control the costs. The former link to CEO pay from Forbes is a good indication of a bottom up system that encourages price gouging for the ill, all the way up. Private hospitals and Doctors are grossly overpaid while nurses and other health care professionals are underpaid. We do not have enough nurses in part due to a hierarchical system controlled by the AMA, particularly as relates to continuing education. If a nursing license lapses, even if you practiced for years, you have to start all over again instead of just taking the refresher courses and passing the exams.

Most health care can be done by nurses, nurse practitioners and EMT’s. A safe, professional, monitored system of visiting health care, such as what they have in France is long overdue and works nearly perfectly.

The costs in the United States are ridiculous because there is no regulation to stop the Pharmaceuticals/Hospitals/Physicians from charging what they want. In fact, we are being diagnosed to death, and unnecessary medications are ridiculously expensive when generic medicines are readily available just about everywhere else. Many diagnoses, especially the “so-called mental health profession" are diagnosing patients with ailments related to behavior, which is subjective, in order to push prescription drugs or... deny a person their rights for some other reason.

The worst part is the completely secretive mind control objective of “so-called” preventative health care. These implants, whether they be for your heart pacemaker or brain are operated by remote via cell phone networks. If your computer is not secure, neither is your pacemaker. These technologies are extremely dangerous for the human race and can be used to mimic symptoms. They are psycho- and physio- mimetic. In other words, they can make your dear Grandmother “seem” to have Alzheimer’s and miss her grandchildren. This is the road to "Soylent Green" and is genecide of the elderly. Who is going to make that determination? They can enslave humanity. One wonders if this is what is behind all of the “so-called” Telco and FCC reform and immunities for the “spy program”. This is the number one area of Health Care Reform that needs to be looked into from an overall communications technology perspective. That goes for the PTSD diagnoses as well, which is probably a coverup to deny benefits to the soldiers. The DOD communications sharing arrangement was a really bad idea.

Cancers are caused by weed killer and petroleum products and there is a direct link between big oil and big pharmaceutical. The scandal with Tamiflu proves it out. Next, there will be designer diseases with an expensive cure right there that you must have if you can afford it.

[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]


Comments are closed-

Gatewaypundit it a prime eg
Posted by: brianct on Aug 5, 2009 4:31 PM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
eg:
Wednesday, August 05, 2009
Confirmed: Obamacare Will Use Taxpayer Money For Abortions

gatwaypundit

Gateway pundit is one of the most rabid rightwing anti-obama sites going...

[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]


Comments are closed-

ONLY SCHIZOPHRENICS ARE AFRAID OF NAZI'S - NOT NORMAL PEOPLE
Posted by: cori on Aug 6, 2009 9:03 PM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
HELP! HEALTH CARE REFORM IS BEING CRUSHED!!!!! Ten’s of millions of Americans lives will continued to be threatened so that special interests can make their profits!

The mandates would involve "diverting additional billions to private insurers by requiring middle-class Americans to purchase defective policies from these firms - policies with so many gaps and loopholes that they currently leave millions of our insured patients vulnerable to financial ruin," says a letter signed by more than 3,500 doctors and released last week by Physicians for a National Health Program.

Days ago, a New York Times headline proclaimed an emerging "consensus" and "common ground" on Capitol Hill. In passing, the article mentioned that lawmakers "agree on the need to provide federal subsidies to help make insurance affordable for people with modest incomes. For poor people, Medicaid eligibility would be expanded."

It's a scenario that amounts to expansion of health care ghettos nationwide. Medicaid's reimbursement rates for medical providers are so paltry that "Medicaid patient" is often a synonym for someone who can't find a doctor willing to help.

But what about "the public plan" - enabling the government to offer health insurance that would be an alternative to the wares of for-profit insurance firms? "Under pressure from industry and their lobbyists, the public plan has been watered down to a small and ineffectual option at best, if it ever survives to being enacted," says John Geyman, professor emeritus of family medicine at the University of Washington.

A public plan option "would do little to mitigate the damage of a reform that perpetuates private insurers' dominant role," according to the letter from 3,500 physicians. "Even a robust public option would fore go 90 percent of the bureaucratic savings achievable under single payer. And a kinder, gentler public option would quickly fail in a health care marketplace where competition involves a race to the bottom, not the top, where insurers compete by NOT paying for care."

While the health care policy outcomes are looking grim, the supposed political imperatives are fueling the desires of Democratic leaders on Capitol Hill to produce a victory that President Obama can tout as health care reform. Consider this quote from "a prominent Democrat" in the August 10 edition of Time magazine: "Something called health-reform legislation will pass. The political consequences of not passing anything would be too great."

The likely result is a glide path to disaster.

[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]


Comments are closed-

THE DESTRUCTION OF THE PUBLIC OPTION
Posted by: cori on Aug 6, 2009 9:06 PM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
THE DESTRUCTION OF THE PUBLIC OPTION BY BLUE DOG DEMOCRATS - AN OUTRAGE!

The debate over health care reform has all but stalled out for the summer. Rep. Henry Waxman tried to keep the "public option" component of the package together, but wound up getting sold down the river by a bunch of Blue Cross Blue Shield Blue Dog Democrats who could give lessons to the GOP minority on how to thwart a presidential agenda. Obama's poll numbers took a pretty sizable hit in the last couple of weeks, at least according to Rasmussen, though there is a fairly compelling argument to be made that Rasmussen's numbers are only meaningful to Rasmussen. The president also wound up having a beer with a Harvard professor and a Cambridge cop to try to quell a story that has stepped all over the health care debate for the last week.

[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]


Comments are closed-

I live in the UK and work
Posted by: cori on Aug 6, 2009 9:10 PM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
I live in the UK and work
I live in the UK and work with the medical profession and hospitals in the UK, France and Germany plus others. The Single Payer systems works and while not perfect, it is better than anything else and keep getting better. It is so much better than the present US system/policy that it is beyond comments and comparison! Most patients are on a National Health System. All citizens have access to National Health as a citizen of their respective country and/or are entitled to health care in other EU countries, if they wish. Some citizens do take out insurance with private companies like BUPA in the UK. As BUPA has to compete with National Health System, their rates and policies are reaasonable. Those insured with BUPA in the UK have access to private hospitals and clinics if they wish. BUT SO DOES A NATIONAL HEALTH CARE PATIENT in many cases, if they choose a private clinic that works with the National Health Service and there are services available. you see, IT IS A MATTER OF CHOICE OF WHICH CLINIC, WHICH DOCTOR ETC. INCLUDING MEDICAL CARE IN OTHER EU COUNTRIES! I have been watching the debate in the USA and the reaction of your politicians and the insurance industry and citizens. IF THE AMERICAN PUBLIC DOES NOT TAKE THEIR DEMANDS INTO THE STREET AND ACTIVELY PROTEST FOR ANY LESS THAN A SINGLE PAYER SYSTEM THEN YOU WILL GET WHAT YOU DESRVE. Anything less and you are or selling yourselves short! ....and letting the insurance industry, corporate interests and corrupt politicians take this human right away from you!

[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]


Comments are closed-

Information is needed
Posted by: Jeanne on Aug 6, 2009 9:46 PM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Why can't we get a re-broadcast of Bill Moyer's Journal -- the episode with Wendell Potter -- on one of the networks? That, in a nutshell, already produced and ready to go, would certainly enlighten those who are confused by what they are seeing and hearing.

Is it not possible? I saw it on PBS, but I imagine only 1% of TV viewers ever watch anything on PBS. It needs to reach a wider audience.

[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]


Comments are closed-

Today's "Centrist" Is Yesterday's "Moderate Republican"
Posted by: RevolutionNet on Aug 11, 2009 1:22 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
As our nation turns it's lonely eyes to stealth neocon Barack Obama, and patiently waits for salvation that is never, ever going to come.


FREE AMERICA

REVOLUTIONARY (DIRECT) DEMOCRACY

[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]


Comments are closed-

PSP Video Converter
Posted by: boay on Aug 17, 2009 7:47 PM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
PSP Video Converter s really your best PSP companion, which allows you to convert comprehensive video and audio files to PSP MP4 format and enjoy your great companionship of these two digital devices.

[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]


Comments are closed-

iPod Touch Converter
Posted by: boay on Aug 19, 2009 6:46 PM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
iPod Touch Converter is specially designed for conversion about iPod touch from other video and audio foramts. For its professional design, it can help you great with fast running speed and video and audio and pic quality keeping. Only several dollars can confer you the right to perform most of the iPod touch conversion with the supporting formats like MPG, MPEG, MPEG2, SWF, FLV, VOB, MOD, MP4, H.264, M4V, AVI, WMV, 3GP, 3GPP, MOV, DivX, XviD, QuickTime Video, DV, MJPG, MJPEG, MPV, etc. M2TS Converter has two powerful functions. One is to convert M2TS to AVI, DVD, MPEG, VOB, H264, MP4, etc. and convert M2TS to PS3, iPod, iPhone, Apple TV, PSP, etc. Another is powerful M2TS editing function which can make you freely customize M2TS files.

[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]


Comments are closed-

CONVERT TO M4R
Posted by: boay on Aug 20, 2009 11:30 PM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
How to Convert to M4R? M4R Converter can provide you the best answer. Using M4R Converter, you can convert various video and audio formats to M4R format such as AVI, MPEG, WMV, MP4, H.264, Avchd, MKV, RM, MOV, Xvid, 3GP, WAV, WMA, RA, M4A, MP3, and so on. No matter you are a veteran or beginner, you can make your own special iPhone Ringtone. Here is a guide shows you how to convert files to M4R and make a iPhone ringtone.

M2TS Converter has two powerful functions. One is to convert M2TS to AVI, DVD, MPEG, VOB, H264, MP4, etc. and convert M2TS to PS3, iPod, iPhone, Apple TV, PSP, etc. Another is powerful M2TS editing function which can make you freely customize M2TS files.

[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]


Comments are closed-

Nike Dunks
Posted by: mjx729 on Sep 3, 2009 11:24 PM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
20 country group Nike Dunks (G20) Treasury Secretary and Central Bank president the conference will convene Nike Dunk today and tomorrow in London. This conference preheating at the end of Nike Dunk High the month G20 which will hold in the Nike Dunk Low American Pittsburgh the leader third whole world Nike Air Max summit. Reveals the recovery symptom in the Air Max Shoes global economic, but restores the foundation not yet under the reliable Air Max 90 background, in this conference four big subjects, the material will receive quite pays attention.

[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]

Alternet Comments:

Comments are closed-

This comment has been removed from the site due to non-compliance with AlterNet's community policies.
» I guess "love thy neighbor".... Posted by: norsegirl

Comments are closed-

Don Quixote
Posted by: Don Quixot on Aug 4, 2009 1:49 AM   
Current rating: 3    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Funny paradox. The US is a country built by foreigners who, once they became American, considered themselves superior to foreigners, dominated foreigners, ended up dominated by foreigners, and have the worst health system of all foreign modern countries.

[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]

» I can say the sky is Yellow Too Posted by: johnwinthrop

Comments are closed-

Blue Cross Democrats
Posted by: Tom Degan on Aug 4, 2009 2:06 AM   
Current rating: 4    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
You would think that Health Care Reform would be a foregone conclusion since the Democrats control both houses of congress, wouldn't you? Yeah, I would, too.

Those Blue Dog Democrats need to be put to sleep.

The Children of 1977

Tom Degan
Goshen, NY

[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]

» Zinoviev Speaks? Posted by: luzmejor
» Segregation is alive and well Posted by: johnwinthrop

Comments are closed-

Health Care - YES; Illegal Aliens - NO
Posted by: Brez on Aug 4, 2009 2:26 AM   
Current rating: 3    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Again, Alternet tries to use the bully-pulpit to further your failed and fruitless campaign to keep the illegal aliens here who are taking jobs that American want and need. (Yes, Josh, we will work for a fair, even a minimum wage if we can, if someone doesn't undercut us because your coprorate puppet masters pay them off the books.)

Just like the crooks that want to keep us from a public option, you subvert the real issue (affordable available quality care for everyone) into yet another cry for open borders and anti-American worker employment for illegals.

What we need to do is provide bus or plane (they are not, by any means, all from Latin America) tickets to any and all illegals in lieu of jobs and services. We're full up here.

[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]


Comments are closed-

This comment has been removed from the site due to non-compliance with AlterNet's community policies.
» RE: Let Em In; Let Em ALL In Posted by: luzmejor
» Americans First Posted by: johnwinthrop

Comments are closed-

Great article! Thanks Josh. The Trolls are out in force today.
Posted by: AngryWhiteFemale on Aug 4, 2009 3:46 AM   
Current rating: 3    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
See, facts and logic have trolldom quaking in its boots every time because they can't respond at the same level.

I hope THIS one is read on the House Floor too.

[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]


Comments are closed-

Why won't the liberals try pushing for multiple payer like Germany or single payer instead?
Posted by: forever1984 on Aug 4, 2009 3:56 AM   
Current rating: 3    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Under either of those two plans, illegals won't be able to steal from hardworking legal immigrants and natives. Obama's plan is a sham. Why do liberals complicate everything?

[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]

» Good point, Stormtrooper! Posted by: Centavo

Comments are closed-

Who Will Get What?
Posted by: drricklippin on Aug 4, 2009 4:14 AM   
Current rating: 4    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Legal vs. Illegal?

Poor vs. Rich?

Old vs. Young?

Gentically (chance) made ill vs Behaviorally (choice) made ill?

To me the issue of WHAT we all we get in US Medicine if far more important than WHO?. That is because about 1/3rd of current medical interventions are not proven to be effective at best and downright dangerous at worst

(But Josh- you are correct. If we really solved the immigration issue the right wing would lose another fear-mongering tactic)

Dr. Rick Lippin
Southampton,Pa

[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]


Comments are closed-

Radical Right
Posted by: warrior woman on Aug 4, 2009 4:42 AM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
This is an example of what the right wing media is telling their readers:

What to ask your congressman about healthcare reform

Jim Brown - OneNewsNow - 8/3/2009 7:00:00 AM http://www.onenewsnow.com/Politics/Default.aspx?id=627392
"A former Republican presidential candidate has compiled a list of ten questions to ask your representative and senators during the month of August regarding healthcare reform legislation in Congress.
American Values president Gary Bauer says the first question constituents should be asking members of Congress is whether they will oppose any healthcare bill that uses tax dollars to pay for abortions.

"The politicians, particularly in the White House, and people like Nancy Pelosi are playing games about this, but the evidence is overwhelming that abortion will, in fact, be covered under any kind of national healthcare bill that is now being considered here in Washington," he points out.

Lawmakers also need to be asked if they are concerned that the legislation promotes euthanasia and rationing of healthcare that could adversely affect senior citizens, Bauer suggests.
"Billions of dollars are going to be taken out of Medicare under this proposal at the same time that millions of new people are going to be made eligible for Medicare, so it is inevitable that for older Americans, healthcare under this proposal is going to be rationed," he adds.

Bauer contends that there are many advisors to President Obama and on the political left who think it is inappropriate and unwise to continue giving people medical treatment when they reach a certain age or are suffering from dementia or Alzheimer's disease."
At this site is the actual list of questions:
http://www.ouramericanvalues.org/files/
CONCERNS%20&%20Questions%20on%20healthcare%20reform.pdf
They are listed in this order:
"1. ABORTION
2. EUTHANASIA
3. COST
4. RATIONING CARE
5. MORE BURDENS ON SMALL BUSINESSES
6. QUALITY CARE
7. THE PEOPLE ARE BEING IGNORED
8. LOSS OF FREEDOM
9. RACIAL PREFERENCES
10.PRE-EXISTING CONDITIONS
I continue to be amazed at the brazen lies of this radical group of which Michele Bachmann is a part. It is no less than cult behavior and the people following these "leaders" will go right off the cliff with them. Fact and reality have nothing to do with their "rationale".

[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]

» RE: adical Right Posted by: Bob Graham Las Vegas

Comments are closed-

Nicely Done
Posted by: weightman on Aug 4, 2009 5:00 AM   
Current rating: 3    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Well I believe, Mr. Holland, since I have been visiting AlterNet, this is about the best piece I've seen you put together. You employ reliable resources, supporting your position with sound data. Nicley done.

So I'm going to forego the usual "defacto one-party state political cost-benefit analysis corporate pornopropaganda paranoia bullshit" based criticism.....for now.

I would, however, like to see an update on Sheriff Joe Arpaio of Maricopa County, Arizona, in light of Obama's plan to expand the controversial 287(g) program, which allows local law enforcement agencies to enter into agreements with Homeland Security’s Immigration and Customs Enforcement, or ICE, effectively giving local police the powers of federal immigration agents.
Everybody bitches about Lou Dobbs. But he isn't carrying a gun and breaking down doors. He isn't using armed law enforcement officers to "sweep" the streets of people "suspected" of being illegal immigrants. (Guess what tips them off.)
Sheriff Joe is supposed to be under federal investigation. What's up with that? Plus, recent revelations on ICE activities would make a fresh look at Sheriff Joe all the more timely. He is, after all, America's Favorite Fascist.

And again, nicely done.

[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]

» RE: Nicely Done Posted by: weightman
» Sherriff Joe is alive and well Posted by: timenotonmyside

Comments are closed-

Stories of the Hour
Posted by: Lilly on Aug 4, 2009 6:01 AM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
I hang out on right-wing websites because they fascinate me. From that perspective I can say that the effort to rev up resentment of immigrants receiving health care never got nearly as far as "health care will be rationed" and "seniors will be euthanized", both ideas now being very hot---they have also been picked up by the MSM. The paranoia has no limits; one poster to townhall.com claimed that Obama is having gulags built where elders will be sent to die without medical care. The lie that seniors must accept mandatory "Death Counseling" has been traced to Betsy McCaughey, employee of a business-serving conservative think tank, but it was quickly picked up by Senator Boehner and thus went into the conservative bloodstream. It seems that positive correlation exists between "extreme craziness of idea" and "eagerness to embrace idea".

The left has not done NEARLY enough to counter the right, which does not scruple to lie, and the right lies dramatically.

[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]

» RE: Stories of the Hour Posted by: Aimleft

Comments are closed-

The ER
Posted by: LeaderofMen on Aug 4, 2009 6:24 AM   
Current rating: 4    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Today, it is federally mandated that anyone - ANYONE - who walks into an emergency room, and can wait long enough, will be treated. ANYONE. BY LAW.

What's also so is that hospitals will not be reimbursed by anyone if that person is not able to pay. Thus, a hospital will lose money for every single person who enters their ER and is unable to pay.

This applies equally to low and no income Americans or illegal aliens.

The Right is a massive pile of lying sh!t for excluding this bit of data about health care and the need for reform.

[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]

» RE: The ER Posted by: drp
» RE: The ER Posted by: johnwinthrop

Comments are closed-

What happened to society....
Posted by: Spiritgirl on Aug 4, 2009 7:01 AM   
Current rating: 4    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Society as we see it is crumbling, the rich are getting richer, the prostitutes in Congress which according to the Constitution are supposed to represent us - yet they are working for the Corporate Oligarchy. What is it that Americans don't want to see? Why have they bought into the obfuscations and an "ideology" that has been working against 95% of Americans?! What must happen before they wake up and see, that sometimes it is for the benefit of all! Why don't they see that a public option that controls costs will benefit everyone, whether you have insurance or not!

How many right-wingers must loose their insurance, their homes, their livelihoods before they are willing to see that truth? How much more dumbed down must Americans be before they start to realize that this country is being driven back to "serf" conditions all under the rubric of a "free-market" economy! Why is "profit" the only motive that people want to understand, especially as the "profit" is not benefiting any but the very top! All of those bible thumpers (whatever your bible is) why do you not understand ""The King will reply, 'I tell you the truth, whatever you did for one of the least of these brothers of mine, you did for me.'" Matthew 25:39-41 or what about: "" 'Do not seek revenge or bear a grudge against one of your people, but love your neighbor as yourself. I am the LORD." Leviticus 19:17-19

[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]

» RE: What happened to society.... Posted by: JenniferBedingfield

Comments are closed-

Healthcare reform and the rightwingers
Posted by: JenniferBedingfield on Aug 4, 2009 7:05 AM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
The right wingers never treated their own citizens in this country with any respect. I am no fan of Obama's health care package but not because of race but because of the fact that everyone but Big Insurance/Pharma loses and big. The right wingers actually support such plans but because their man Mccain isn't doing it and their party is out of power, of course their job is to throw red meat and stir up hate and division some more. All other industrial nations are providing single payer health care or a genuine form of universal healthcare that covers everyone without taxing them. The rightwing has no problem playing the culture class warfare game to keep the public distracted. The argument "we should not pass health care reform because illegals will get it too" is like saying a company should slit its wrists and lay off employees and not hire new ones because "illegals" will be employed too. It was the rightwing policies of NAFTA, union smashing, privatization,deregulation, offshoring, etc ... that created this immigration mess in the first place and so far, they're scared that their policies have been coming home to roost. Besides, one question to ask you rightwingers out there. Why did you support helping rightwinger Calderon steal the Mexican election even when it was clear that he was for more oppression especially of women and children and more immigrant dumping while his opponent Obrador would have worked on improving the economic conditions inside Mexico so that citizens wouldn't go desperately crossing the US/Mexico border and Corporate America wouldn't be mooching off illegal near-slave labor?

[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]


Comments are closed-

UTMB galveston-- an example
Posted by: drp on Aug 4, 2009 7:19 AM   
Current rating: 4    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
The University of Texas Medical Branch (UTMB) on Galveston Island has a historic policy of treating all comers. If you can make it to "the Island", they will treat you.

Uniquely among Texas Medical Schools, the University of Texas System owns the teaching hospital. So, the cost of treating "unsponsored patients" ( those without insurance, medicare or medicaid ) falls on the UT system.

The main group here is undocumented aliens, whose treatment has severely strained the University finances. One trick is to make it to Galveston and have your "anchor baby" at UTMB, delivered for free.

The result has been a severe strain on University finances. So, UTMB has been laying off faculty and staff for several years.

The final straw was Hurricaine Ike, which the UT regents used ans an excuse to Ike lay off 3K more faculty members and try to move the Hospital to the mainland. Admittedly seven feet of water in the main hospitals was also a consideration. The old UTMB policy of "take all comers" is also being reassessed.

A national health program would be good for UTMB, since it would ease the strain of treating unsponsored patients on UT system finances and put on taxpayers in general. Where this is a good idea in general is another issue.

[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]


Comments are closed-

b kenneth mcgee author: eyes shut tight
Posted by: rfgtile on Aug 4, 2009 8:58 AM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
In Germany in the 1930's the Nazi's were considered "crazies"... the world found out almost too late... and the "crazies" almost destroyed the world as we know it.

The right wing "crazies" in this country cannot be laughed off.

"Never again"

[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]


Comments are closed-

It isn't xenophobia to object to being robbed
Posted by: Old Skeptic on Aug 4, 2009 9:02 AM   
Current rating: 3    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Our country is being taken for a ride by illegal aliens and their families, and this is especially true about health care. Illegal aliens can go to any ER and at least get their immediate problem dealt with. Their hordes of kids, if they are born here, are de facto citizens, although they should not be, and can usually qualify for Medicaid or county health benefits. They can even qualify for welfare benefits, which of course, good old illegal alien mom and dad get to spend.

Very few illegal aliens make enough money to pay enough in taxes to cover even part of their medical care or other so-called "rights", such as education for their hordes of kids, free meals at school, free immunizations at county health clinics, etc. They are mostly leeches, living off our economic blood while contributing little more than "grunt" labor. They have no right to be here, and should be returned, along with their families, to their home countries.

The US simply cannot continue to have the excess population of the Third World dumped across its borders without becoming a part of the Third World in turn.

[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]


Comments are closed-

Immigration 'Enforcement' lets illegals go
Posted by: pg on Aug 4, 2009 9:33 AM   
Current rating: 3    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
The Washington TimesTuesday, August 4, 2009
In an apparent vendetta against a sheriff in Arizona who is tough on illegal immigration, the Obama administration has crossed another boundary. The treatment of Maricopa County Sheriff Joe Arpaio is yet another sign of the administration's dangerous hyperpoliticization of federal law enforcement.

- sheriff's department requested permission from U.S. Immigration and Customs Enforcement (ICE) to detain 13 illegal immigrants and transfer them to ICE's custody. The end result, amidst conflicting stories, was that all 13 illegals were let go.

Read it here yourself
Washington Times

Its not xenophobia it is taxpayers rightly concerned about universal healthcare with open borders

[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]


Comments are closed-

Thankfully Canada is sane on these issues
Posted by: chaoslegs on Aug 4, 2009 9:36 AM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
From 1989-1993 I attend the University of Toronto on a student visa as I am a US citizen. During the first year, I paid roughly $180 for 6 months of health care coverage for the Ontario Health Insurance Plan (OHIP). I was not working, as I thought it would be a bit challenging as a non-citizen.

During the remaining years, they changed how the non-working contributed, and all I had to do was show my student visa, that I was a legal citizen, and they would issue the OHIP card until my visa expired.

Now I realize that would cause some people to have their heads explode. So be it. The reality is I was a healthy young adult who utilized the campus clinic twice for strep, never using the OHIP system. But the civility of offering the system to legal residents is what makes Canada a more sane country than the US these days.

I cannot comment directly on the Canadian health care system as I didn't really use it. However, my friends in their 30s, some in 40s, would not take the US system. And some of these folks are fairly conservative in their political leanings.

[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]


Comments are closed-

Living And Dying With Dignity.
Posted by: melpol on Aug 4, 2009 10:07 AM   
Current rating: 1    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Taxpayers should not bear the responsibility of keeping a cancer infested person alive. Fortunately terminally ill patients will be left to die under the new federal health plan. But those that have saved for a rainy day will be able to stay alive until they run out of cash. The new heath plan will clear the hospitals of penniless Cancer and Pneumonia patients and keep the beds open for the curable. Encouraging the terminally ill to commit suicide is in the interest of most of those who are forced to live in shelters. It would open up over a hundred thousand dwellings to healthy Americans. It would also give those ready to die a last chance to do a good deed before they depart. The burden of keeping alive the terminally ill is no longer being accepted by the public. Most taxpayers believe that terminal illness is a personal problem and should not be shared

[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]


Comments are closed-

Nationalize insurance co
Posted by: Jeanne on Aug 4, 2009 10:25 AM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Would nationalizing the health insurance companies work? Maybe even the threat of it would make them back off and fight fair. OK. I know that is crazy, but it is one way to achieve single payer....

[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]


Comments are closed-

The truth shall set you free!
Posted by: CaliJim on Aug 4, 2009 11:03 AM   
Current rating: 2    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
The reality is that thousands of Americans die every year, because their insurance companies deny them care or search for a technicality that will allow them to terminate their insurance when they are extremely ill and desperately need the care. That is a FACT.

Speculation on the fantasy that the new health reform will result in "Killing Granny" is pure scare tactic hokum, just like the "mushroom cloud" they used to scare us into invading Iraq. The insurance companies and their lackeys are desperately trying anything they can think of to stop the health care reform, but - since they can't actually say "Hey...we'll stop making obscene profits and salaries if you do that!", they come up with these lies to scare people.

Medicare has extremely high approval ratings...higher than many, if not most, of the for-profit health care plans...as well as much lower administrative costs. Try asking the average senior if you can take away their Medicare, but you better stand back...you might get hit with a cane!

At least 47 million Americans uninsured and increasing by an estimated 14, 000 a day who are losing their health insurance. Premiums rising by at least 7% a year, despite continually reduced coverage and hard work by the insurance companies to deny coverage or cancel insurance for people who become seriously ill. We simply can't afford to do nothing! For those who say..."Wait...slow down! Don't rush into this!", I have to ask...after 60 years of waiting for health care reform, when will it finally be time? If not now...when? Of course, the people saying "Slow down...wait a while" actually mean..."Never, never, never, never!" Their priorities are the profits of the insurers...not the health of our citizens.

We spend at least double the amount of other industrialized nations for our health care, but are at the bottom of the list in terms of life expectancy and general overall health. The claim that we have the best health care in the world is a lie...except for possibly the politicians, the rich and a relatively few lucky others. What we have is the MOST EXPENSIVE health care with the worst return on investment in the world...and it's about time it was fixed!

The Republican positions on this are lies, pure and simple. They often quote the Lewin Group in their attacks on health care reform - often adding the words "private" and "independent" to Lewin Group. Another fact. The Lewin Group is definitely NOT independent - it's a wholly owned subsidiary of UnitedHealth Group, which was fined $400 million for basically cheating their customers, doctors and hospitals, so it's obvious what their viewpoint is...and it's not remotely related to a fair, unbiased review of the current health care system or any proposed changes to it.

[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]

» RE: The truth shall set you free! Posted by: ForFreedom

Comments are closed-

joshua holland is a horse's ass
Posted by: collins101 on Aug 4, 2009 11:36 AM   
Current rating: 2    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
obama's healthcare will drown us in debt but Holland, just like all the other obama athletic supporters, doesn't have a clue. Obama is as interested in our well being as charlie manson. What will straighten out this health care business is single-payer. Holland and Obama are against it.

[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]

» Really? Posted by: Joshua Holland
» His anger may be understandable ... Posted by: Joshua Holland
» Look in a mirror? Posted by: chaoslegs

Comments are closed-

Illegal means NOT LEGAL
Posted by: timenotonmyside on Aug 4, 2009 12:57 PM   
Current rating: 4    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Get your facts straight about immigration whether it be legal or illegal before you spew.

Another House Committee Rejects Closing Health Coverage Loophole for Illegal Aliens
Last week, another committee in the House of Representatives had a chance to close one of the many loopholes in the House health care bill that would open up taxpayer-funded health care benefits for illegal aliens. Unfortunately, by a vote of 28 to 29, the Energy and Commerce Committee narrowly defeated an amendment offered by Rep. Nathan Deal (R-GA) that would close one of those loopholes. (Amendment Language and Vote Results).

Congressman Deal's amendment would have continued to require that the government verify whether someone enrolling in Medicaid is not an illegal alien. (See video of Rep. Deal explaining his amendment). Section 1702 of the House bill reads that States "shall accept without further determination the enrollment… of an individual determined… to be a non-traditional Medicaid eligible individual." Concerns have been raised about whether a "non-traditional Medicaid eligible individual" would include illegal aliens and that the prohibition against verifying eligibility contained in Section 1702 would allow illegal aliens to enroll in Medicaid. (House bill).

On a related note, one of the nation's largest retailers this week announced support for free health care for illegal aliens. While speaking at a convention of the National Council of La Raza held in Chicago, Dr. John Agwunobi, the senior vice-president who runs the Wal-Mart unit that includes the company's health clinics, stated: "We believe strongly that everyone should have access to affordable health insurance. Everyone." (WBEX Radio, July 27, 2009). In late June, the National Council of La Raza issued a statement demanding that Congress give illegal aliens taxpayer-funded health care benefits. Last week, an unidentified member of the Congressional Hispanic Caucus said: "We're pushing to include everyone in the health care bill. Everyone."

All major studies of the impact of illegal immigration on local communities have come to the conclusion that there is a major fiscal cost to the local taxpayers. Studies of these costs were done in the 1990s by the Urban Institute1 and by Dr. Donald Huddle,2 a Rice University economics professor. Both studies found major net costs — after subtracting for taxes collected — associated with illegal immigration. In 1996 the National Academies of Science issued a report titled “The New Americans,” that studied the economic and fiscal impact of immigration — they did not differentiate between legal and illegal immigrants. That study found that, “In the short term, today’s immigrants impose costs on some state and local governments by using more in government services than they pay in taxes… In some states, this burden can be substantial: In California, for example, the panel calculates an additional annual tax burden of $1,178 per household headed by a U.S. native.”

In the past two years, fiscal cost studies for California, Arizona, Texas and Florida looking at the same cost factors studied by the Urban Institute 10 years earlier, i.e., education3, emergency medical care and incarceration. Findings of the annual net fiscal costs were:

California $8.8 billion ($1,183 per native household)
Arizona
$1.03 billion ($717 per native household)

Texas
$3.73 billion ($725 per native household)

Florida4 $.91 billion ($315 per native household)



These studies were done in 2004 and 2005, and the rapid continuing increase in the illegal immigrant population in each of these states would result in higher estimates of the fiscal cost today.

[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]


Comments are closed-

Confused about the health care issue?
Posted by: willymack on Aug 4, 2009 1:43 PM   
Current rating: 4    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Don't be. It's really very simple.
About 76% of us want a "public" option. Single-payer universal health care would be best.
The other 24% of us are composed of gullible fools who couldn't escape a Chineese finger puzzle or find their way across town without help. They simply will NEVER understand that they'll benefit from true reform along with the rest of us.
Then there are the forces of the Dark Side. Their names are legend, and all-pervasive.
They're the ones who don't care who gets hurt, goes bankrupt, or dies from lack of proper care as long as their obscene profits are preserved. They have bought and paid for "friends" at all levels of government. None of these people have any morals, ethics, or scruples, and they'll stop at NOTHING to defeat a fair and more HUMANE health care system.

[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]


Comments are closed-

Public Health Plan Will Accomplish The Opposite of Its Intent
Posted by: ForFreedom on Aug 4, 2009 2:41 PM   
Current rating: 1    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Great article if you don't care about facts. It's ironic that the article said something to the effect that you can have your own opinion but not your own facts. Here they are:

HR3200 does not grant affordability credits to illegal immigrants, but DOES grant them access to the plans. What this means is that taxpayers will not be paying for Illegal Immigrant care directly, but will be supporting illegals through premium payments based on the fact that the illegal population will be one of adverse selection (Those who need care, join. Healthy illegals would not join as all legal citizens would be required to do, since they're off the books.) Cited here:

p.73 of HR3200 (the house bill) states:
13 SEC. 202. EXCHANGE-ELIGIBLE INDIVIDUALS AND EMPLOYERS.

(a) ACCESS TO COVERAGE.—In accordance with this
section, all individuals are eligible to obtain coverage
through enrollment in an Exchange-participating health
benefits plan offered through the Health Insurance Ex-
change unless such individuals are enrolled in another
qualified health benefits plan or other acceptable coverage.


In addition, there is a section of the code that grants both access to the plans AND affordability credits to dozens of definitions of legal aliens. Maybe Americans care, maybe they don't, but those are the facts of HR3200.

Definitions of legal aliens

On the issue of the need for competition as cited in the linked report, I believe both conservatives and liberals would agree that increased competition is needed. Unfortunately, HR3200 will decrease competition by eliminating the private insurers over time.

On the issue of CEO compensation, folks, health care is a competitive business and requires competitive compensation to recruit talented leadership. When compared to other industries, the top 4 Health care CEOS fall at only #53 on top 500 CEO,#76, #86, and #199 on the list and it goes down from there:

Forbes reports CEO compensation

Profit and compensation are what drive innovation and creativity. The elimination of profit as a motive will cause massive waste, fraud and the elimination of the innovation in health care that Americans have come to expect. They're the fuel of a capitalist society which we were once pruod to be.

Here's what everyone, I think, can agree on:

1. Reform is needed.
2. Everyone should be able to access coverage.
3. We need to eliminate pre-existing cond exclusions.
4. Choice is better than lack of choice.
5. Americans want the ability to make health care decisions along with their provider.
6. We should not pass on costs to our children. We need to solve this generation's problem in this generation.


Responsible Health Care Legislation

[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]


Comments are closed-

The Health Care Reform Bill is in its FIRST stages, there will be many changes and amendments by
Posted by: avidAmerican on Aug 4, 2009 3:06 PM   
Current rating: 3    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
the time it is ready to vote on. It must go thru the House and the Senate. The other version is not even finished yet. After the Senate, it goes to Committee. There it gets finalized and ready for final votes of the House and Senate. No point in getting so hepped up right now, by the time it is finished, it may look a lot different. This is just one version of the outline; there is much to come. I watch the Senate daily and the House during quorum calls. Why don't you all just wait until it is all finished to start your whining? Right now you are just wasting your breath. It still has a long way to go.

[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]


Comments are closed-

Sign these petitions http://bit.ly/drug_benefit http://bit.ly/HR676 http://bit.ly/single_payer_ross
Posted by: www.democratz.org on Aug 4, 2009 3:14 PM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]

Comments are closed-

Absolutely no question about it.
Posted by: talkville on Aug 4, 2009 4:20 PM   
Current rating: 1    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Especially following telecom 'reform' and 'reform' of FCC and related agencies, it is precisely and accurately the very purpose of the Public Relations and the Advertising Sector to mis-lead -- with regards to consumer products of all kinds - ideologic, cultural and material. That is their bread, butter, caviar and private islands. And these companies are not only domestic but trans-national. Monitoring "stories" and "news" from every part of the world has become a paramount concern for the left.

Keep on keeping on!

[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]


Comments are closed-

Lies, lies, lies
Posted by: bettyn on Aug 4, 2009 4:52 PM   
Current rating: 3    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
The rightwingnuts and Faux Noise are spreading so many lies about this healthcare program that Obama and the rest of the Democrats are going to have to go over bit by bit EXACTLY what this healthcare bill will do for the people of this country. I have heard more wacky and scary pronouncements from the Repigs over this program than any other program ever proposed by our government. It's beyond ridiculous that everytime someone proposes a healthcare bill, we have this barrage of bullshit from the right and the corporate pigs in the healthcare industry that scares the sheeple half to death! I am sick and tied of this baloney! We need to get this program passed NOW! Somebody has to shoot down the BS once and for all!

[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]


Comments are closed-

This bill deserves to fail and it's not because of the immigrants issue.
Posted by: maxpayne on Aug 4, 2009 9:24 PM   
Current rating: 3    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
The whole bill so far is a sham and a bunk and will only get worse as it gets further modified. Real healthcare reform need not be 1000s of pages.

[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]


Comments are closed-

Myth vs Virtual Reality
Posted by: femtobeam on Aug 4, 2009 10:04 PM   
Current rating: 1    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
The reform and the storm over it does not look at the real problem which is privatization of all aspects of healthcare. The owners control the costs. The former link to CEO pay from Forbes is a good indication of a bottom up system that encourages price gouging for the ill, all the way up. Private hospitals and Doctors are grossly overpaid while nurses and other health care professionals are underpaid. We do not have enough nurses in part due to a hierarchical system controlled by the AMA, particularly as relates to continuing education. If a nursing license lapses, even if you practiced for years, you have to start all over again instead of just taking the refresher courses and passing the exams.

Most health care can be done by nurses, nurse practitioners and EMT’s. A safe, professional, monitored system of visiting health care, such as what they have in France is long overdue and works nearly perfectly.

The costs in the United States are ridiculous because there is no regulation to stop the Pharmaceuticals/Hospitals/Physicians from charging what they want. In fact, we are being diagnosed to death, and unnecessary medications are ridiculously expensive when generic medicines are readily available just about everywhere else. Many diagnoses, especially the “so-called mental health profession" are diagnosing patients with ailments related to behavior, which is subjective, in order to push prescription drugs or... deny a person their rights for some other reason.

The worst part is the completely secretive mind control objective of “so-called” preventative health care. These implants, whether they be for your heart pacemaker or brain are operated by remote via cell phone networks. If your computer is not secure, neither is your pacemaker. These technologies are extremely dangerous for the human race and can be used to mimic symptoms. They are psycho- and physio- mimetic. In other words, they can make your dear Grandmother “seem” to have Alzheimer’s and miss her grandchildren. This is the road to "Soylent Green" and is genecide of the elderly. Who is going to make that determination? They can enslave humanity. One wonders if this is what is behind all of the “so-called” Telco and FCC reform and immunities for the “spy program”. This is the number one area of Health Care Reform that needs to be looked into from an overall communications technology perspective. That goes for the PTSD diagnoses as well, which is probably a coverup to deny benefits to the soldiers. The DOD communications sharing arrangement was a really bad idea.

Cancers are caused by weed killer and petroleum products and there is a direct link between big oil and big pharmaceutical. The scandal with Tamiflu proves it out. Next, there will be designer diseases with an expensive cure right there that you must have if you can afford it.

[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]


Comments are closed-

Gatewaypundit it a prime eg
Posted by: brianct on Aug 5, 2009 4:31 PM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
eg:
Wednesday, August 05, 2009
Confirmed: Obamacare Will Use Taxpayer Money For Abortions

gatwaypundit

Gateway pundit is one of the most rabid rightwing anti-obama sites going...

[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]


Comments are closed-

ONLY SCHIZOPHRENICS ARE AFRAID OF NAZI'S - NOT NORMAL PEOPLE
Posted by: cori on Aug 6, 2009 9:03 PM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
HELP! HEALTH CARE REFORM IS BEING CRUSHED!!!!! Ten’s of millions of Americans lives will continued to be threatened so that special interests can make their profits!

The mandates would involve "diverting additional billions to private insurers by requiring middle-class Americans to purchase defective policies from these firms - policies with so many gaps and loopholes that they currently leave millions of our insured patients vulnerable to financial ruin," says a letter signed by more than 3,500 doctors and released last week by Physicians for a National Health Program.

Days ago, a New York Times headline proclaimed an emerging "consensus" and "common ground" on Capitol Hill. In passing, the article mentioned that lawmakers "agree on the need to provide federal subsidies to help make insurance affordable for people with modest incomes. For poor people, Medicaid eligibility would be expanded."

It's a scenario that amounts to expansion of health care ghettos nationwide. Medicaid's reimbursement rates for medical providers are so paltry that "Medicaid patient" is often a synonym for someone who can't find a doctor willing to help.

But what about "the public plan" - enabling the government to offer health insurance that would be an alternative to the wares of for-profit insurance firms? "Under pressure from industry and their lobbyists, the public plan has been watered down to a small and ineffectual option at best, if it ever survives to being enacted," says John Geyman, professor emeritus of family medicine at the University of Washington.

A public plan option "would do little to mitigate the damage of a reform that perpetuates private insurers' dominant role," according to the letter from 3,500 physicians. "Even a robust public option would fore go 90 percent of the bureaucratic savings achievable under single payer. And a kinder, gentler public option would quickly fail in a health care marketplace where competition involves a race to the bottom, not the top, where insurers compete by NOT paying for care."

While the health care policy outcomes are looking grim, the supposed political imperatives are fueling the desires of Democratic leaders on Capitol Hill to produce a victory that President Obama can tout as health care reform. Consider this quote from "a prominent Democrat" in the August 10 edition of Time magazine: "Something called health-reform legislation will pass. The political consequences of not passing anything would be too great."

The likely result is a glide path to disaster.

[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]


Comments are closed-

THE DESTRUCTION OF THE PUBLIC OPTION
Posted by: cori on Aug 6, 2009 9:06 PM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
THE DESTRUCTION OF THE PUBLIC OPTION BY BLUE DOG DEMOCRATS - AN OUTRAGE!

The debate over health care reform has all but stalled out for the summer. Rep. Henry Waxman tried to keep the "public option" component of the package together, but wound up getting sold down the river by a bunch of Blue Cross Blue Shield Blue Dog Democrats who could give lessons to the GOP minority on how to thwart a presidential agenda. Obama's poll numbers took a pretty sizable hit in the last couple of weeks, at least according to Rasmussen, though there is a fairly compelling argument to be made that Rasmussen's numbers are only meaningful to Rasmussen. The president also wound up having a beer with a Harvard professor and a Cambridge cop to try to quell a story that has stepped all over the health care debate for the last week.

[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]


Comments are closed-

I live in the UK and work
Posted by: cori on Aug 6, 2009 9:10 PM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
I live in the UK and work
I live in the UK and work with the medical profession and hospitals in the UK, France and Germany plus others. The Single Payer systems works and while not perfect, it is better than anything else and keep getting better. It is so much better than the present US system/policy that it is beyond comments and comparison! Most patients are on a National Health System. All citizens have access to National Health as a citizen of their respective country and/or are entitled to health care in other EU countries, if they wish. Some citizens do take out insurance with private companies like BUPA in the UK. As BUPA has to compete with National Health System, their rates and policies are reaasonable. Those insured with BUPA in the UK have access to private hospitals and clinics if they wish. BUT SO DOES A NATIONAL HEALTH CARE PATIENT in many cases, if they choose a private clinic that works with the National Health Service and there are services available. you see, IT IS A MATTER OF CHOICE OF WHICH CLINIC, WHICH DOCTOR ETC. INCLUDING MEDICAL CARE IN OTHER EU COUNTRIES! I have been watching the debate in the USA and the reaction of your politicians and the insurance industry and citizens. IF THE AMERICAN PUBLIC DOES NOT TAKE THEIR DEMANDS INTO THE STREET AND ACTIVELY PROTEST FOR ANY LESS THAN A SINGLE PAYER SYSTEM THEN YOU WILL GET WHAT YOU DESRVE. Anything less and you are or selling yourselves short! ....and letting the insurance industry, corporate interests and corrupt politicians take this human right away from you!

[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]


Comments are closed-

Information is needed
Posted by: Jeanne on Aug 6, 2009 9:46 PM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Why can't we get a re-broadcast of Bill Moyer's Journal -- the episode with Wendell Potter -- on one of the networks? That, in a nutshell, already produced and ready to go, would certainly enlighten those who are confused by what they are seeing and hearing.

Is it not possible? I saw it on PBS, but I imagine only 1% of TV viewers ever watch anything on PBS. It needs to reach a wider audience.

[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]


Comments are closed-

Today's "Centrist" Is Yesterday's "Moderate Republican"
Posted by: RevolutionNet on Aug 11, 2009 1:22 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
As our nation turns it's lonely eyes to stealth neocon Barack Obama, and patiently waits for salvation that is never, ever going to come.


FREE AMERICA

REVOLUTIONARY (DIRECT) DEMOCRACY

[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]


Comments are closed-

PSP Video Converter
Posted by: boay on Aug 17, 2009 7:47 PM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
PSP Video Converter s really your best PSP companion, which allows you to convert comprehensive video and audio files to PSP MP4 format and enjoy your great companionship of these two digital devices.

[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]


Comments are closed-

iPod Touch Converter
Posted by: boay on Aug 19, 2009 6:46 PM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
iPod Touch Converter is specially designed for conversion about iPod touch from other video and audio foramts. For its professional design, it can help you great with fast running speed and video and audio and pic quality keeping. Only several dollars can confer you the right to perform most of the iPod touch conversion with the supporting formats like MPG, MPEG, MPEG2, SWF, FLV, VOB, MOD, MP4, H.264, M4V, AVI, WMV, 3GP, 3GPP, MOV, DivX, XviD, QuickTime Video, DV, MJPG, MJPEG, MPV, etc. M2TS Converter has two powerful functions. One is to convert M2TS to AVI, DVD, MPEG, VOB, H264, MP4, etc. and convert M2TS to PS3, iPod, iPhone, Apple TV, PSP, etc. Another is powerful M2TS editing function which can make you freely customize M2TS files.

[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]


Comments are closed-

CONVERT TO M4R
Posted by: boay on Aug 20, 2009 11:30 PM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
How to Convert to M4R? M4R Converter can provide you the best answer. Using M4R Converter, you can convert various video and audio formats to M4R format such as AVI, MPEG, WMV, MP4, H.264, Avchd, MKV, RM, MOV, Xvid, 3GP, WAV, WMA, RA, M4A, MP3, and so on. No matter you are a veteran or beginner, you can make your own special iPhone Ringtone. Here is a guide shows you how to convert files to M4R and make a iPhone ringtone.

M2TS Converter has two powerful functions. One is to convert M2TS to AVI, DVD, MPEG, VOB, H264, MP4, etc. and convert M2TS to PS3, iPod, iPhone, Apple TV, PSP, etc. Another is powerful M2TS editing function which can make you freely customize M2TS files.

[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]


Comments are closed-

Nike Dunks
Posted by: mjx729 on Sep 3, 2009 11:24 PM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
20 country group Nike Dunks (G20) Treasury Secretary and Central Bank president the conference will convene Nike Dunk today and tomorrow in London. This conference preheating at the end of Nike Dunk High the month G20 which will hold in the Nike Dunk Low American Pittsburgh the leader third whole world Nike Air Max summit. Reveals the recovery symptom in the Air Max Shoes global economic, but restores the foundation not yet under the reliable Air Max 90 background, in this conference four big subjects, the material will receive quite pays attention.

[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]

 
Advertisement
From The Blog
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
Most Read
Most Emailed
Most Discussed
On REDDIT
On DIGG
 
loading ...
POWERED BY DIGG'S USERS