COMMENTS: 97
Obama Accused of Continuing Bush's Racial Profiling of Immigrants
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Can a president who is, by any measure, far more forthright and lyrical than his predecessors about the pernicious effects of racism simultaneously promote and expand the racist policies of past administrations?
This is the question vexing many in immigrants rights, Latino, civil rights and other circles following what feels to them like the contradictory messages about racial profiling coming from the Obama administration in recent weeks.
On the one hand, many observers applauded Obama's July 15 speech to the NAACP convention and last week's statements about the circumstances surrounding the arrest of Harvard professor Henry Louis Gates Jr.
Some found reassurance in statements like the one Obama made about the Gates incident last week: "…what we know separate and apart from this incident is that there is a long history in this country of African Americans and Latinos being stopped by law enforcement disproportionately. And that's just a fact."
But when they heard the crushing sound of new reports documenting the effects of the Obama administration's treatment of immigrants, the president's Martin Luther King-like cadences on racial profiling rang hollow.
A recently released report by Syracuse University concluded that "immigration enforcement under the Obama administration is returning to the unusually high levels that were reached under President Bush." Critics say that thousands of immigrants -- and hundreds of U.S. citizens -- continue to be prosecuted, jailed and deported by the Immigration and Customs Enforcement agency, in no small part because of racial profiling.
That was the case of Brian Lyttle. In one of the hundreds of cases involving U.S. citizens, Lyttle, 31, a North Carolinian who has no Mexican ancestry, speaks no Spanish and suffers from mental illness, was deported by ICE to Mexico in April.
Another damning report released last week by the Cardozo School of Law at Yeshiva University analyzed the immigration raids of homes and workplaces conducted by ICE.
According to the report, the raids, which have continued under the Obama administration, have resulted in the kinds of constitutional violations and routine racial profiling exemplified most clearly by the fact that "approximately 90 percent of the collateral arrest records reviewed, where ICE officers did not note any basis for seizing and questioning the individual, were of Latino men and women -- although Latinos represented only 66 percent of target arrests."
Both citizens and non-citizens have been arrested for being in the wrong place at the wrong time, or what ICE calls "collateral arrests" -- arrests of people who are with or near someone who was ICE's original "target."
Virtually all advocates agree that the legal and policy foundations for such practices were laid by both the Clinton and Bush administrations. The result has been the creation of what legal scholar Juliet Stumpf calls the "crimmigration" system.
Stumpf and others continue to decry an immigration system that, they believe, leads to the disproportionate profiling and incarceration (Latinos are now the largest group in federal prisons) of mostly poor immigrants in much the same way that harsh drug laws have led to the disproportionate profiling of blacks, Latinos and other poor people that help make the United States home to the world's most massive prison system.
Coming from the Obama administration, one that created great expectations of change, the continuation and expansion of programs that systematically violate rights are beginning to wear thin the goodwill of immigrant defenders like Maria Muentes of the New York-based Families for Freedom.
"The nice speeches on race clash with the fact immigration enforcement is actually up under Obama; the levels of those incarcerated for immigration-related offenses look like they did during the Bush administration," said Muentes, whose organization advocates on behalf of detained immigrants. "Obama's speeches on racial profiling seem to leave out a lot of people. They exclude many immigrants, people for whom every aspect of their life is subject to racial profiling; people who are stopped while riding trains, people persecuted at work, people stopped while driving and all those families whose homes are terrorized by raids."
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Posted by: progressive-life on Jul 29, 2009 11:47 AM
Current rating: 2 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
As for immigration, it has little to do with race and more to do with the law. They are called illegals for a reason! change the law to allow anyone to come into this country or stop anyone from coming in!
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» I'm curious
Posted by: VisionQuest
» RE: What we really know,
Posted by: Kita
» RE: What we really know,
Posted by: osd
» RE: What we really know,
Posted by: jaglover
» RE: What we really know,
Posted by: Knot_Rich
» RE: What we really know,
Posted by: Knot_Rich
» You're Right
Posted by: VisionQuest
» RE: What we really know,
Posted by: desidid
Comments are closed-
Posted by: dissentisgood on Jul 29, 2009 6:12 PM
Current rating: 2 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
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» It's like saying you're sick with polio: Possible but Unlikely
Posted by: johnwinthrop
» RE: It's like saying you're sick with polio: Possible but Unlikely
Posted by: hilaryuk
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Posted by: Seppuku on Jul 30, 2009 12:15 AM
Current rating: 3 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
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» RE: Good.
Posted by: johnwinthrop
» RE: Good.
Posted by: losingmyliberties
» RE: Good.
Posted by: Kita
» RE: Good.
Posted by: Kita
» RE: Good.
Posted by: grn1
» RE: Good.
Posted by: osd
Comments are closed-
Posted by: johnwinthrop on Jul 30, 2009 2:43 AM
Current rating: 3 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
As usual Alternet and its proimmigration writers lack the guts to advocate open borders. That is their true position. They could care less if deportation procedures are sometimes bent, as any govt policy including healthcare will be when you are dealing with milliions of people. Mistakes happen. You don't throw out a good policy for a few mistakes. You correct the mistakes.
I love it that Alternet whines about racial profiling yet the first example of abuse of deportation is a non-Hispanic guy. He did something to attract attention. Is everyone who is detained by ICE a de facto "victim" of racial profiling. OF course.
Because to Mr. Lovato, everyone who is deported is a victim. Because Lovato wants no one ever deported. The World has a right to come to the US, take jobs from American workers, blacks and other underemployed groups; and overpopulate some more overpopulated urban and suburban areas.
OF course Mr. Lovato must favor illegal aliens obtaining free healthcare under the programs under debate in Congress.
Why not? The aliens kids will get free education they don't pay for, protection from fire and police and access to emergency room care. And drivers licenses from most states. We, the American people, are chumps, Mr. Lovato.
You just want to humiliate us some more, don't you? What other wonderful nations offer open borders and employment to all, Mr. Lovato?
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» Free trade involves the free flow of products, capital, and workers (not just capital and products)
Posted by: cplot
» RE: Free trade involves the free flow of products, capital, and workers (not just capital and products)
Posted by: losingmyliberties
» We had our Revolution; Europe's Is Theirs
Posted by: johnwinthrop
» RE: Dependable in an Uncertain World? R. Lovato is Wrong(Always)
Posted by: hilaryuk
» Follow the Cash(It Ain't in the USA)
Posted by: johnwinthrop
» RE: Follow the Cash(It Ain't in the USA)
Posted by: hilaryuk
» The more the US grows, the less attention we pay to helping the poorest elsewhere
Posted by: plantland
» RE: You Are Right
Posted by: desidid
Comments are closed-
Posted by: bcainw on Jul 30, 2009 4:19 AM
Current rating: 3 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
This is how the shell game works. The large corporations want to displace older American citizens (over 35) with cheaper Illegal labor so they grease to palms of Congress to look the other way.
Meanwhile the legal American Citizen is getting screwed. We get it. And that is obvious from reading most of the Alternet posts which show that people are waking up and want the Illegal Immigrants GONE yesterday.
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» Exploiting people of a certain ethnicity is racist
Posted by: leafsong1
» RE: xploiting people of a certain ethnicity is racist
Posted by: grn1
» RE: xploiting people of a certain ethnicity is racist
Posted by: proudleftist
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Posted by: dave1616 on Jul 30, 2009 4:23 AM
Current rating: 3 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
www.discussrace.com
Discussion Forum
Recommended Reading Lists
Peace .
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» Did badly on Analogies,did you?
Posted by: johnwinthrop
» Did badly on analogies,did you?
Posted by: leafsong1
» 30 minutes for Section A
Posted by: johnwinthrop
» RE: 30 minutes for Section A
Posted by: proudleftist
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Posted by: aharben on Jul 30, 2009 4:51 AM
Current rating: 3 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Then ask yourselves who benefits from illegals being promoted to stay.
Where is your allegiance?
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» Immigration enforcement is being promoted to keep wages down
Posted by: leafsong1
» RE: Latino lobby in control at AlterNet
Posted by: Joshua Holland
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Posted by: mmckinl on Jul 30, 2009 4:58 AM
Current rating: 2 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
just much better diction ...
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Posted by: Gabba_Gabba_Hey on Jul 30, 2009 5:08 AM
Current rating: 4 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
"The nice speeches on race clash with the fact immigration enforcement is actually up under Obama...."
Obama made it pretty clear during the campaign - especially on his own website - that he wanted to enforce the immigration laws.
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Posted by: tlwinslow on Jul 30, 2009 6:03 AM
Current rating: 1 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Since 1848 the U.S., a nation of illegal immigrants since Jamestown that expanded by genocide of aborigines has systematically practiced racism against browns in Mexico, instituting a virtual Apartheid after stealing the best half for themselves. 160 years later, the chickens are coming home to roost, and something has to give. Do we want to face up to our deep racist psyche now or later? The answer is staring us in the face: end the apartheid and work to unite Mexico and the U.S., as a bilingual nation, with bigger better seabound borders to guard against world terrorism. This is NOT the same thing as a North American Union, because the ever-corrupt Mexican government must go, it really has to go, and Mexico become the "51st state" under the U.S. Constitution. Google "Megamerge Dissolution Solution" to read my carefully thought-out and documented proposal. Other temporary fixes are a waste of time and money.
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» Stop the Mendacity: Racism has lost meaning as a word as it's overused and misused.
Posted by: johnwinthrop
» So to stop U.S. racism, you want the U.S. to TAKE OVER MEXICO?
Posted by: Gabba_Gabba_Hey
» RE: 2468
Posted by: hilaryuk
» RE: 2468
Posted by: desidid
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Posted by: xvictor on Jul 30, 2009 6:06 AM
Current rating: 1 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Business owners feel that paying a worker 3 or 4 dollars an hour to sweep floors is a lot fairer than the 7 or 8 dollars an hour that is mandated to pay them. So rather than paying them the exhorbitant wage, plus all the other mandated benefits, they'd rather hire illegals and pay them under the table.
Proponents who wants to raise minimum wage claim it is too low to support a family. That is irrevelant. Those type wages was NEVER meant to support a family. Study after study has shown that the vast majority of minimum wage workers live with their parents or share a room with other people anyway.
Doing away with the Minimum Wage Act is not only cost-efficient, but it also enables business owners to hire more local neighorhood-type folks and ultimately benefit the consumer.
Think about it: the cost of a burger platter now (with illegals working in the kitchens) is about 9 dollars. If the owner had minimum wage workers on his staff, the cost of that platter would be around 13 dollars.
Nine dollars or 13 dollars: you decide.
IF and When there's a huge demand for burger flippers, floor sweepers, or apprentice type positions and not enough applicants for them, it's the business owners and the markets, not the government, who will decide if paying the American workers 20 dollars an hour is worth the money and effort to attract applicants.
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» RE: epeal the Minimum Wage Act!!!
Posted by: grn1
» RE: Stop Smoking Your
Posted by: desidid
» and next lets do away with child labor laws
Posted by: Godfrey
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Posted by: jegnj on Jul 30, 2009 6:16 AM
Current rating: 3 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
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» RE: So tired of the racist accusations
Posted by: grn1
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Posted by: ellie on Jul 30, 2009 6:17 AM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
I know a couple who are fighting to stay in this country and are US citizens by birth... they got stopped on vacation (accidental lane change without turn signal in Arizona... they were taking the family to the Grand Canyon in a fairly new minivan) and bingo! here were the ICE guys...
cuffed and stuffed the entire family including grandma... let grandma take the kids and the minivan but kept mom and dad... ICE wants to deport mom and dad to Mexico as illegals...
here's the rub... mom and dad are enrolled members of an American Indian tribe, full blood, grandma released with minivan and grandkids is mom's mother... not a drop of other blood in either of their bodies, full blooded American Indian!!!
if ICE insists on deportation to home country as they are pushing for, where are they supposed to send them, Washington State, where their tribal rez is???
so far, it's been 3 weeks and ICE still is pushing family legal team to drop the fight and allow deportation... if ICE gets it's way, how the heck are these parents supposed to re-enter their own country legally (passports needed now remember kids???)because they will be illegals in Mexico and arrested as soon as they put foot on Mexican soil...
this immigration hunt and profiling (brown skin = illegal) has gotten way out of hand... along with homeland insecurity who is again ramping up the hunt for our own home grown crazies and trying to push for people to rat out their neighbors for being 'suspicious'...
only in america... where American Indians are now illegals again...
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» I live in New Mexico.
Posted by: telluride
» RE: I live in New Mexico.
Posted by: ellie
» RE: So You Are Advocating
Posted by: desidid
» They've had plenty of access to BOOZE
Posted by: telluride
» RE: They've had plenty of access to BOOZE
Posted by: desidid
» Names of these victims, where to write and call, please
Posted by: plantland
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Posted by: leafsong1 on Jul 30, 2009 6:25 AM
Current rating: 2 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
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Posted by: telluride on Jul 30, 2009 7:05 AM
Current rating: 3 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
It's very clear. Without definite borders, with measurable numbers of citizens - how can we have any shared services? - ie Social Security, Medical care - etc.
this is a no brainer... Mexico is a social basket case... and if we did for/to Mexico what we are doing in Iraq, the American people would be better off.
If you are going to have a 1st world economy and social benefits - you cannot share an unarmed border with a 3rd world sewer.
Duh..
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» RE: How can we have healthcare_or even a country
Posted by: Old Skeptic
» RE: How can we have healthcare_
Posted by: djkrugger
» RE: How can we have healthcare_
Posted by: Old Skeptic
Comments are closed-
Posted by: FULLPROOF BULLETPROOF on Jul 30, 2009 7:44 AM
Current rating: 1 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
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» RE: Barack Hussein Obama is an illegal alien ...Oh PUH-LEEZE!
Posted by: Old Skeptic
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Posted by: Old Skeptic on Jul 30, 2009 7:44 AM
Current rating: 2 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
The fact is, however, that (according to the Pew Hispanic Center) about 57% of illegal aliens are Mexican and another 24% are from other Latin American countries, so 81% of illegal aliens are Hispanic. This is not racial profiling; this is just a statement of fact. The vast majority of illegal aliens are Latino! Period.
So how is it "profiling" to think first of illegal aliens in terms of Latinos, when only some 19% of the population of illegals consists of members of any other ethnic group? Apparently, there are some who supposedly want to follow our laws, but somehow this is supposed to be accomplished without actually arresting anyone, deporting anyone, punishing any employers, etc. In short: they want us to have open borders, with all of the Third World's surplus population free to invade our country as they see fit. What hypocrisy!
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Posted by: djkrugger on Jul 30, 2009 9:01 AM
Current rating: 4 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
But don't worry soon we will all know how it does feel like to eat with 2 dollars a day.
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» RE: Hypocrisy...oh really?
Posted by: Old Skeptic
» RE: How Often Have You
Posted by: desidid
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Posted by: thedevil666 on Jul 30, 2009 9:03 AM
Current rating: 4 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Moreover, what would happen to Mexico if you sent 10 million Mexicans, about %10 of the population, back with no prospects for employment? Either they could all get jobs with the drug cartels supplying American addiction or there would be an overnight revolution in Mexico. Just so you all know, immigration to the U.S. from Mexico skyrocketed during the last revolution in 1910.
Like it or not, we live in an increasingly global economy where jobs will continue to be outsourced because it is more profitable for the companies to do so. If you don't like it join the communist party.
I also take issue with people that say that they aren't racist, that they just don't want people to illegally be here. It doesn't take much research to show immigration laws have been historically been racist. The first federal attempt at immigration reform in 1919 might as well have been called the No Blacks, Hispanics, Asians, Southern European, or Eastern European Law considering that it significantly limited migration to the U.S. from western European countries.These laws were preceded by the Chinese Exclusion Act. Also referring to Mexico as a "third world sewer" is both racist and ignorant.
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» RE: Most of the commenters here have a very poor understanding of economics and geopolitics
Posted by: Old Skeptic
» RE: Most of the commenters here have a very poor understanding of economics and geopolitics
Posted by: thedevil666
» RE: Most of the commenters here have a very poor understanding of economics and geopolitics
Posted by: melloe2
» RE: Most of the commenters here have a very poor understanding of economics and geopolitics
Posted by: melloe2
Comments are closed-
Posted by: Quannah on Jul 30, 2009 9:59 AM
Current rating: 4 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
The laws weren't written so much to include people, but rather to exclude certain groups of people deemed "undesirable."
Prior to 1885, when the first alien contract labor laws were written, people were allowed into the US WITHOUT PAPERS (undocumented), but were still treated as pariahs if they were from certain ethnic groups.
So, race and ethnicity has ALWAYS played a big role in immigration law and the attitudes of Americans about people coming to this country. To say that it hasn't is not based in reality.
Undocumented workers today are still treated as pariahs. Only now they are hunted down, rounded up, treated as sub-human, even though companies are more than willing to exploit them and their labor in order to make greater profits. And every one of these undocumented workers have taxes withheld from their wages. They pay taxes. They pay into Social Security. And they aren't eligible for any of the benefits. So, to say they take advantage of everything and don't pay their fair share isn't true.
But for people whose ancestors came to this country prior to 1885, YOUR ANCESTORS WERE UNDOCUMENTED ALIENS. Does the truth hurt much?
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» What is a citizen? What is a country? What is a border?
Posted by: je5752
» RE: What is a citizen? What is a country? What is a border?
Posted by: Old Skeptic
» RE: There were no immigration laws in this country until 1882
Posted by: Old Skeptic
» RE: There were no immigration laws in this country until 1882
Posted by: Quannah
» There were no airplanes or automobiles in 1882 either
Posted by: Gabba_Gabba_Hey
» RE: There were no immigration laws in this country until 1882
Posted by: desidid
» RE: There were no immigration laws in this country until 1882
Posted by: Quannah
» RE: There were no immigration laws in this country until 1882
Posted by: desidid
» RE: There were no immigration laws in this country until 1882
Posted by: Old Skeptic
» RE: There were no immigration laws in this country until 1882
Posted by: Quannah
Comments are closed-
Posted by: J Smith on Jul 30, 2009 10:54 AM
Current rating: 4 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Certain people are angry that the US might protect its own borders, might make it harder to sneak into this country and, once here, to stay indefinitely.
Let me see if I correctly understand the thinking behind these protests.
Let's say I break into your house. Let's say that when you discover me in your house, you insist that I leave.
But I say, "I've made all the beds and washed the dishes and did the laundry and swept the floors. I've done all the things you don't like to do. I'm hard-working and honest (except for when I broke into your house).
According to the protesters:
You are Required to let me stay in your house.
You are Required to add me to your family's insurance plan.
You are Required to Educate my kids.
You are Required to Provide other benefits to me & to my family (my husband will do all of your yard work because he is also hard-working and honest, (except for that breaking in part).
If you try to call the police or force me out, I will call my friends who will picket your house carrying signs that proclaim my RIGHT to be there.It's only fair, after all, because you have a nicer house than I do, and I'm just trying to better myself. I'm a hard-working and honest, person, except for well, you know, I did break into your house. And oh yeah, I get a free education, where you have to pay your own way through college .
And what a deal it is for me!!!
I live in your house, contributing only a fraction of the cost of my keep, and there is nothing you can do about it without being accused of cold,uncaring, selfish, prejudiced, and bigoted behavior.
Oh yeah, I DEMAND that you learn MY LANGUAGE!!!So you can communicate with me. And don't forget to make sure your forms are in MY language - I need to understand them.
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» RE: Let's say I break into your house ...
Posted by: login@bugmenot.com
» RE: Let's say I break into your house ...
Posted by: Old Skeptic
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Posted by: JenniferBedingfield on Jul 30, 2009 2:04 PM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
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Posted by: tokerdesigner on Jul 30, 2009 5:41 PM
Current rating: 3 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
2. Curiously this pseudodilemma continues to show up in debates, taking the form of belittling Latinos, etc., wshen the very same innanet which enables them to write comments here also enables them to learn foreign languages with a golpe de raton (I made that one up myself, it's not traditional).
3. There's a terrific amount of work for everyone to do, if only Americans (as someone hinted 5- comments ago) could outgrow their conspicuous consumption habit, their using up 44% of all the world resources or whatever it is. Much as various tribes have done for thousands of years, including those to whom the word "potlatch" and "potluck" are attributed in the N.W.U.S.A., contemporary Americans live wastefully in order to scare would-be persecutors by showing off their purchasing power (which can be used to hire a cop to beat up anyone they don't like).
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Posted by: wen on Jul 30, 2009 5:42 PM
Current rating: 1 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
clae shoes air force ones puma shoes all star basketball shoes shoes online buy shoes gucci shoes beach shoes fidel shoes jordan jf retro air yeezy size 13 ed hardy xl women ed hardy tiger shirts
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Posted by: aadinko on Jul 30, 2009 8:46 PM
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RT
Online Privacy when it Counts
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Posted by: wawwiz on Jul 31, 2009 2:19 AM
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Posted by: gggggg0909 on Aug 2, 2009 7:51 AM
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Posted by: boay on Aug 20, 2009 11:22 PM
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Posted by: progressive-life on Jul 29, 2009 11:47 AM
Current rating: 2 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
As for immigration, it has little to do with race and more to do with the law. They are called illegals for a reason! change the law to allow anyone to come into this country or stop anyone from coming in!
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» I'm curious
Posted by: VisionQuest
» RE: What we really know,
Posted by: Kita
» RE: What we really know,
Posted by: osd
» RE: What we really know,
Posted by: jaglover
» RE: What we really know,
Posted by: Knot_Rich
» RE: What we really know,
Posted by: Knot_Rich
» You're Right
Posted by: VisionQuest
» RE: What we really know,
Posted by: desidid
Comments are closed-
Posted by: dissentisgood on Jul 29, 2009 6:12 PM
Current rating: 2 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
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» It's like saying you're sick with polio: Possible but Unlikely
Posted by: johnwinthrop
» RE: It's like saying you're sick with polio: Possible but Unlikely
Posted by: hilaryuk
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Posted by: Seppuku on Jul 30, 2009 12:15 AM
Current rating: 3 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
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» RE: Good.
Posted by: johnwinthrop
» RE: Good.
Posted by: losingmyliberties
» RE: Good.
Posted by: Kita
» RE: Good.
Posted by: Kita
» RE: Good.
Posted by: grn1
» RE: Good.
Posted by: osd
Comments are closed-
Posted by: johnwinthrop on Jul 30, 2009 2:43 AM
Current rating: 3 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
As usual Alternet and its proimmigration writers lack the guts to advocate open borders. That is their true position. They could care less if deportation procedures are sometimes bent, as any govt policy including healthcare will be when you are dealing with milliions of people. Mistakes happen. You don't throw out a good policy for a few mistakes. You correct the mistakes.
I love it that Alternet whines about racial profiling yet the first example of abuse of deportation is a non-Hispanic guy. He did something to attract attention. Is everyone who is detained by ICE a de facto "victim" of racial profiling. OF course.
Because to Mr. Lovato, everyone who is deported is a victim. Because Lovato wants no one ever deported. The World has a right to come to the US, take jobs from American workers, blacks and other underemployed groups; and overpopulate some more overpopulated urban and suburban areas.
OF course Mr. Lovato must favor illegal aliens obtaining free healthcare under the programs under debate in Congress.
Why not? The aliens kids will get free education they don't pay for, protection from fire and police and access to emergency room care. And drivers licenses from most states. We, the American people, are chumps, Mr. Lovato.
You just want to humiliate us some more, don't you? What other wonderful nations offer open borders and employment to all, Mr. Lovato?
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» Free trade involves the free flow of products, capital, and workers (not just capital and products)
Posted by: cplot
» RE: Free trade involves the free flow of products, capital, and workers (not just capital and products)
Posted by: losingmyliberties
» We had our Revolution; Europe's Is Theirs
Posted by: johnwinthrop
» RE: Dependable in an Uncertain World? R. Lovato is Wrong(Always)
Posted by: hilaryuk
» Follow the Cash(It Ain't in the USA)
Posted by: johnwinthrop
» RE: Follow the Cash(It Ain't in the USA)
Posted by: hilaryuk
» The more the US grows, the less attention we pay to helping the poorest elsewhere
Posted by: plantland
» RE: You Are Right
Posted by: desidid
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Posted by: bcainw on Jul 30, 2009 4:19 AM
Current rating: 3 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
This is how the shell game works. The large corporations want to displace older American citizens (over 35) with cheaper Illegal labor so they grease to palms of Congress to look the other way.
Meanwhile the legal American Citizen is getting screwed. We get it. And that is obvious from reading most of the Alternet posts which show that people are waking up and want the Illegal Immigrants GONE yesterday.
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» Exploiting people of a certain ethnicity is racist
Posted by: leafsong1
» RE: xploiting people of a certain ethnicity is racist
Posted by: grn1
» RE: xploiting people of a certain ethnicity is racist
Posted by: proudleftist
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Posted by: dave1616 on Jul 30, 2009 4:23 AM
Current rating: 3 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
www.discussrace.com
Discussion Forum
Recommended Reading Lists
Peace .
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» Did badly on Analogies,did you?
Posted by: johnwinthrop
» Did badly on analogies,did you?
Posted by: leafsong1
» 30 minutes for Section A
Posted by: johnwinthrop
» RE: 30 minutes for Section A
Posted by: proudleftist
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Posted by: aharben on Jul 30, 2009 4:51 AM
Current rating: 3 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Then ask yourselves who benefits from illegals being promoted to stay.
Where is your allegiance?
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» Immigration enforcement is being promoted to keep wages down
Posted by: leafsong1
» RE: Latino lobby in control at AlterNet
Posted by: Joshua Holland
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Posted by: mmckinl on Jul 30, 2009 4:58 AM
Current rating: 2 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
just much better diction ...
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Posted by: Gabba_Gabba_Hey on Jul 30, 2009 5:08 AM
Current rating: 4 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
"The nice speeches on race clash with the fact immigration enforcement is actually up under Obama...."
Obama made it pretty clear during the campaign - especially on his own website - that he wanted to enforce the immigration laws.
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Posted by: tlwinslow on Jul 30, 2009 6:03 AM
Current rating: 1 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Since 1848 the U.S., a nation of illegal immigrants since Jamestown that expanded by genocide of aborigines has systematically practiced racism against browns in Mexico, instituting a virtual Apartheid after stealing the best half for themselves. 160 years later, the chickens are coming home to roost, and something has to give. Do we want to face up to our deep racist psyche now or later? The answer is staring us in the face: end the apartheid and work to unite Mexico and the U.S., as a bilingual nation, with bigger better seabound borders to guard against world terrorism. This is NOT the same thing as a North American Union, because the ever-corrupt Mexican government must go, it really has to go, and Mexico become the "51st state" under the U.S. Constitution. Google "Megamerge Dissolution Solution" to read my carefully thought-out and documented proposal. Other temporary fixes are a waste of time and money.
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» Stop the Mendacity: Racism has lost meaning as a word as it's overused and misused.
Posted by: johnwinthrop
» So to stop U.S. racism, you want the U.S. to TAKE OVER MEXICO?
Posted by: Gabba_Gabba_Hey
» RE: 2468
Posted by: hilaryuk
» RE: 2468
Posted by: desidid
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Posted by: xvictor on Jul 30, 2009 6:06 AM
Current rating: 1 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Business owners feel that paying a worker 3 or 4 dollars an hour to sweep floors is a lot fairer than the 7 or 8 dollars an hour that is mandated to pay them. So rather than paying them the exhorbitant wage, plus all the other mandated benefits, they'd rather hire illegals and pay them under the table.
Proponents who wants to raise minimum wage claim it is too low to support a family. That is irrevelant. Those type wages was NEVER meant to support a family. Study after study has shown that the vast majority of minimum wage workers live with their parents or share a room with other people anyway.
Doing away with the Minimum Wage Act is not only cost-efficient, but it also enables business owners to hire more local neighorhood-type folks and ultimately benefit the consumer.
Think about it: the cost of a burger platter now (with illegals working in the kitchens) is about 9 dollars. If the owner had minimum wage workers on his staff, the cost of that platter would be around 13 dollars.
Nine dollars or 13 dollars: you decide.
IF and When there's a huge demand for burger flippers, floor sweepers, or apprentice type positions and not enough applicants for them, it's the business owners and the markets, not the government, who will decide if paying the American workers 20 dollars an hour is worth the money and effort to attract applicants.
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» RE: epeal the Minimum Wage Act!!!
Posted by: grn1
» RE: Stop Smoking Your
Posted by: desidid
» and next lets do away with child labor laws
Posted by: Godfrey
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Posted by: jegnj on Jul 30, 2009 6:16 AM
Current rating: 3 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
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» RE: So tired of the racist accusations
Posted by: grn1
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Posted by: ellie on Jul 30, 2009 6:17 AM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
I know a couple who are fighting to stay in this country and are US citizens by birth... they got stopped on vacation (accidental lane change without turn signal in Arizona... they were taking the family to the Grand Canyon in a fairly new minivan) and bingo! here were the ICE guys...
cuffed and stuffed the entire family including grandma... let grandma take the kids and the minivan but kept mom and dad... ICE wants to deport mom and dad to Mexico as illegals...
here's the rub... mom and dad are enrolled members of an American Indian tribe, full blood, grandma released with minivan and grandkids is mom's mother... not a drop of other blood in either of their bodies, full blooded American Indian!!!
if ICE insists on deportation to home country as they are pushing for, where are they supposed to send them, Washington State, where their tribal rez is???
so far, it's been 3 weeks and ICE still is pushing family legal team to drop the fight and allow deportation... if ICE gets it's way, how the heck are these parents supposed to re-enter their own country legally (passports needed now remember kids???)because they will be illegals in Mexico and arrested as soon as they put foot on Mexican soil...
this immigration hunt and profiling (brown skin = illegal) has gotten way out of hand... along with homeland insecurity who is again ramping up the hunt for our own home grown crazies and trying to push for people to rat out their neighbors for being 'suspicious'...
only in america... where American Indians are now illegals again...
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» I live in New Mexico.
Posted by: telluride
» RE: I live in New Mexico.
Posted by: ellie
» RE: So You Are Advocating
Posted by: desidid
» They've had plenty of access to BOOZE
Posted by: telluride
» RE: They've had plenty of access to BOOZE
Posted by: desidid
» Names of these victims, where to write and call, please
Posted by: plantland
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Posted by: leafsong1 on Jul 30, 2009 6:25 AM
Current rating: 2 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
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Posted by: telluride on Jul 30, 2009 7:05 AM
Current rating: 3 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
It's very clear. Without definite borders, with measurable numbers of citizens - how can we have any shared services? - ie Social Security, Medical care - etc.
this is a no brainer... Mexico is a social basket case... and if we did for/to Mexico what we are doing in Iraq, the American people would be better off.
If you are going to have a 1st world economy and social benefits - you cannot share an unarmed border with a 3rd world sewer.
Duh..
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» RE: How can we have healthcare_or even a country
Posted by: Old Skeptic
» RE: How can we have healthcare_
Posted by: djkrugger
» RE: How can we have healthcare_
Posted by: Old Skeptic
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Posted by: FULLPROOF BULLETPROOF on Jul 30, 2009 7:44 AM
Current rating: 1 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
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» RE: Barack Hussein Obama is an illegal alien ...Oh PUH-LEEZE!
Posted by: Old Skeptic
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Posted by: Old Skeptic on Jul 30, 2009 7:44 AM
Current rating: 2 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
The fact is, however, that (according to the Pew Hispanic Center) about 57% of illegal aliens are Mexican and another 24% are from other Latin American countries, so 81% of illegal aliens are Hispanic. This is not racial profiling; this is just a statement of fact. The vast majority of illegal aliens are Latino! Period.
So how is it "profiling" to think first of illegal aliens in terms of Latinos, when only some 19% of the population of illegals consists of members of any other ethnic group? Apparently, there are some who supposedly want to follow our laws, but somehow this is supposed to be accomplished without actually arresting anyone, deporting anyone, punishing any employers, etc. In short: they want us to have open borders, with all of the Third World's surplus population free to invade our country as they see fit. What hypocrisy!
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Posted by: djkrugger on Jul 30, 2009 9:01 AM
Current rating: 4 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
But don't worry soon we will all know how it does feel like to eat with 2 dollars a day.
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» RE: Hypocrisy...oh really?
Posted by: Old Skeptic
» RE: How Often Have You
Posted by: desidid
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Posted by: thedevil666 on Jul 30, 2009 9:03 AM
Current rating: 4 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Moreover, what would happen to Mexico if you sent 10 million Mexicans, about %10 of the population, back with no prospects for employment? Either they could all get jobs with the drug cartels supplying American addiction or there would be an overnight revolution in Mexico. Just so you all know, immigration to the U.S. from Mexico skyrocketed during the last revolution in 1910.
Like it or not, we live in an increasingly global economy where jobs will continue to be outsourced because it is more profitable for the companies to do so. If you don't like it join the communist party.
I also take issue with people that say that they aren't racist, that they just don't want people to illegally be here. It doesn't take much research to show immigration laws have been historically been racist. The first federal attempt at immigration reform in 1919 might as well have been called the No Blacks, Hispanics, Asians, Southern European, or Eastern European Law considering that it significantly limited migration to the U.S. from western European countries.These laws were preceded by the Chinese Exclusion Act. Also referring to Mexico as a "third world sewer" is both racist and ignorant.
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» RE: Most of the commenters here have a very poor understanding of economics and geopolitics
Posted by: Old Skeptic
» RE: Most of the commenters here have a very poor understanding of economics and geopolitics
Posted by: thedevil666
» RE: Most of the commenters here have a very poor understanding of economics and geopolitics
Posted by: melloe2
» RE: Most of the commenters here have a very poor understanding of economics and geopolitics
Posted by: melloe2
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Posted by: Quannah on Jul 30, 2009 9:59 AM
Current rating: 4 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
The laws weren't written so much to include people, but rather to exclude certain groups of people deemed "undesirable."
Prior to 1885, when the first alien contract labor laws were written, people were allowed into the US WITHOUT PAPERS (undocumented), but were still treated as pariahs if they were from certain ethnic groups.
So, race and ethnicity has ALWAYS played a big role in immigration law and the attitudes of Americans about people coming to this country. To say that it hasn't is not based in reality.
Undocumented workers today are still treated as pariahs. Only now they are hunted down, rounded up, treated as sub-human, even though companies are more than willing to exploit them and their labor in order to make greater profits. And every one of these undocumented workers have taxes withheld from their wages. They pay taxes. They pay into Social Security. And they aren't eligible for any of the benefits. So, to say they take advantage of everything and don't pay their fair share isn't true.
But for people whose ancestors came to this country prior to 1885, YOUR ANCESTORS WERE UNDOCUMENTED ALIENS. Does the truth hurt much?
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» What is a citizen? What is a country? What is a border?
Posted by: je5752
» RE: What is a citizen? What is a country? What is a border?
Posted by: Old Skeptic
» RE: There were no immigration laws in this country until 1882
Posted by: Old Skeptic
» RE: There were no immigration laws in this country until 1882
Posted by: Quannah
» There were no airplanes or automobiles in 1882 either
Posted by: Gabba_Gabba_Hey
» RE: There were no immigration laws in this country until 1882
Posted by: desidid
» RE: There were no immigration laws in this country until 1882
Posted by: Quannah
» RE: There were no immigration laws in this country until 1882
Posted by: desidid
» RE: There were no immigration laws in this country until 1882
Posted by: Old Skeptic
» RE: There were no immigration laws in this country until 1882
Posted by: Quannah
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Posted by: J Smith on Jul 30, 2009 10:54 AM
Current rating: 4 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Certain people are angry that the US might protect its own borders, might make it harder to sneak into this country and, once here, to stay indefinitely.
Let me see if I correctly understand the thinking behind these protests.
Let's say I break into your house. Let's say that when you discover me in your house, you insist that I leave.
But I say, "I've made all the beds and washed the dishes and did the laundry and swept the floors. I've done all the things you don't like to do. I'm hard-working and honest (except for when I broke into your house).
According to the protesters:
You are Required to let me stay in your house.
You are Required to add me to your family's insurance plan.
You are Required to Educate my kids.
You are Required to Provide other benefits to me & to my family (my husband will do all of your yard work because he is also hard-working and honest, (except for that breaking in part).
If you try to call the police or force me out, I will call my friends who will picket your house carrying signs that proclaim my RIGHT to be there.It's only fair, after all, because you have a nicer house than I do, and I'm just trying to better myself. I'm a hard-working and honest, person, except for well, you know, I did break into your house. And oh yeah, I get a free education, where you have to pay your own way through college .
And what a deal it is for me!!!
I live in your house, contributing only a fraction of the cost of my keep, and there is nothing you can do about it without being accused of cold,uncaring, selfish, prejudiced, and bigoted behavior.
Oh yeah, I DEMAND that you learn MY LANGUAGE!!!So you can communicate with me. And don't forget to make sure your forms are in MY language - I need to understand them.
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» RE: Let's say I break into your house ...
Posted by: login@bugmenot.com
» RE: Let's say I break into your house ...
Posted by: Old Skeptic
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Posted by: JenniferBedingfield on Jul 30, 2009 2:04 PM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
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Posted by: tokerdesigner on Jul 30, 2009 5:41 PM
Current rating: 3 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
2. Curiously this pseudodilemma continues to show up in debates, taking the form of belittling Latinos, etc., wshen the very same innanet which enables them to write comments here also enables them to learn foreign languages with a golpe de raton (I made that one up myself, it's not traditional).
3. There's a terrific amount of work for everyone to do, if only Americans (as someone hinted 5- comments ago) could outgrow their conspicuous consumption habit, their using up 44% of all the world resources or whatever it is. Much as various tribes have done for thousands of years, including those to whom the word "potlatch" and "potluck" are attributed in the N.W.U.S.A., contemporary Americans live wastefully in order to scare would-be persecutors by showing off their purchasing power (which can be used to hire a cop to beat up anyone they don't like).
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Posted by: wen on Jul 30, 2009 5:42 PM
Current rating: 1 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
clae shoes air force ones puma shoes all star basketball shoes shoes online buy shoes gucci shoes beach shoes fidel shoes jordan jf retro air yeezy size 13 ed hardy xl women ed hardy tiger shirts
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Posted by: aadinko on Jul 30, 2009 8:46 PM
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RT
Online Privacy when it Counts
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Posted by: wawwiz on Jul 31, 2009 2:19 AM
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Posted by: gggggg0909 on Aug 2, 2009 7:51 AM
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Did the Mafia Set Off a Series of Racial Battles with African Migrants?
Officials Hid Truth of Migrant Deaths in Jails
Lou Dobbs, Looking at Public Office, Says He's in Favor of Policy He Used to Spin as "Shamnesty for Illegals"




