COMMENTS: 179
I Married an Illegal Immigrant: A First-Hand Account of How Screwed Up This Country's Rules for Foreigners Are
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Immigration is an issue that always spurs heated debates. There are some decent arguments floating around, some kooky ones and one that reveals that the person making it is utterly clueless about the issue. That argument, in a nutshell, is that the system's fine.
Sure, there are around 11 million people in this country illegally; sure, many toil away in horrific conditions without any legal protections; yes, we detain suspected illegal immigrants (children included) -- meaning some number of legal immigrants and citizens as well -- in obscene conditions that human rights groups say violate international norms and, yes, those citizens who employ undocumented workers do so with something very close to impunity.
But the system's not broken, according to these folks. That's just a liberal talking point bandied about by those with a perverse desire to actually fix it. (This is closely related to the even more ridiculous assertion that the government doesn't do much to enforce the immigration laws. It does -- much more than enough, in fact, given the nature of the offense in question.)
Now, there is a significant group of people who would never, ever suggest that our immigration system is anything less than dysfunctional. That group consists of anyone who has ever had any opportunity to interact with it in any way whatsoever.
Although I am a U.S. citizen -- belonging to a fourth-generation immigrant family -- I count myself among that group. What I learned through the experience is that the difference between a "legal" and "illegal" immigrant often comes down to whether one can afford a decent, well-connected lawyer.
Here's my tale:
When I was very young, I fell in love with a woman. She had the misfortune of being born in another country, but we didn't let that stand in our way, and eventually we married. (And, for the record, it was by no means a sham marriage -- we had lived together for three years before tying the knot.)
We had lived in Germany for a while -- where my application for permanent residency was processed with typical Teutonic efficiency. Then we moved to New York and ran into the U.S. immigration system, a black hole of an agency staffed by incompetent, gray-faced bureaucrats whose performances would have shamed the DMV.
Their sole joy in life seemed to come from making applicants' lives miserable, but we soldiered on, traipsing down to lower Manhattan to file endless pieces of paper and attend about four interviews.
Eventually, my (now ex-) wife was granted a temporary permit to work while her application was being processed. She was, officially, a "legal" immigrant, one of the ones that Lou Dobbs supposedly loves.
Then we made a huge error, at least as it relates to the immigration system: We moved to Florida (I know, how rude of us?).
We paid a fee to have our file transferred and were assured that the application process would continue smoothly in the sure hands of the Miami field office (this was back when CIS was INS, and not part of Homeland Security).
Only the file never arrived. It was transferred, but to Maine. And then somewhere else (I forget where -- I think it landed somewhere in the Pacific Northwest).
Months passed. we were repeatedly told that the file was being tracked and would appear in the Sunshine State any day now. The authorities renewed my sweetie's 'temporary' authorization, and she remained, thankfully, "legal."
Until the day cruise.
If you've ever been to Florida, you've probably seen a lot of ads for these tacky junkets. They jam a bunch of pasty, brightly clothed tourists into a ship -- most of which are packed with E. coli bacteria -- and for 50 bucks they stuff them with cheap booze and fattening foods, toodle around the Atlantic for 10 hours, relieve them of a few more bucks in the casino and then back to port. We got one of these cruises as a gift.
Now, we'd been told that while the application was pending, my wife couldn't leave the country. And we weren't sure whether a day cruise constituted leaving the country or not. So we brought all our paperwork to an INS agent in the cruise terminal and asked him point-blank whether we could take the trip.
Not a problem, he assured us, as long as we didn't disembark in another country, it wouldn't be considered an overseas trip. We thanked him, got on board, and proceeded to get as sick as the other 1,000 or so suckers who took that day's cruise.
We were slightly concerned when we were asked to fill out entry cards before arriving back in port, and for good reason. A few weeks later, in an apparently aberrant act of efficiency, INS sent us a letter informing us that because we had left the country, our application (which they had not actually found yet) was rejected.
They invited us to appeal, which we tried to do. But we couldn't actually appeal, they told us, until the application had been found and transferred to Miami. In the meantime, my spouse's temporary work permit had been withdrawn.
I was then married to an illegal alien.
And let me state the obvious: that illegal alien had done nothing wrong, had no criminal record, had entered through an inspection point with a valid visa and had followed all the rules. The system, which opponents of reform claim is fine, had screwed us royally.
(And before anyone suggests that this experience was unusual, a study by the Public Policy Institute of California found that fewer than 40 percent of legal permanent residents had always had their paperwork in order; the rest had been "illegal" at an earlier point in time. In California, more than half of all legal permanent residents were "illegals" at one point in time.
Immigration restrictionists make a great effort to distinguish between lawful and unlawful immigrants -- they must, because unlike their counterparts in other wealthy countries, they have to deal with the fact that the U.S. is a "nation of immigrants" -- but the difference between legal and illegal is often a matter of simple chronology rather than a reflection of the character of the person in question.)
Again, these kinds of stories are ubiquitous among people who have tried to deal with the system, and at some point, we ended up swapping INS horror stories with another couple which, like us, consisted of a U.S. citizen and his foreign-born spouse. And they told us something that in hindsight seems incredibly obvious. They advised us that, based on their own experience, it's pretty much impossible to deal with immigration authorities without a good, well-connected attorney.
It just so happened that they had one to recommend. So, after about a year of trying to navigate the system on our own, we sat down with their guy -- a smarmy former INS official in a shiny suit. And we wrote him a retainer check for $2,000 (which I had to borrow from my father). And he said he'd see what he could do.
And ... presto! It was like magic. Our lawyer mentioned our case to the regional INS director over a game of golf one Saturday, the guy said he'd look into it, and suddenly ... the system functioned. They found our file. It appeared in the Miami office. We appealed the decision they'd made after the day cruise, and it was indeed overturned.
Suddenly, just like that, I was married to a legal permanent resident again, the kind of person Dobbs says he embraces with open arms. She was the same human being -- with the same productivity, the same attitude toward the rule of law and, yes, the same faults -- only she had valid papers, and we were two grand poorer.
Of course, not every immigrant working in the U.S. has two grand to spare for a shyster lawyer.
This story highlights the great irony of the immigration debate. With an average wait time of one to three years for status adjustment -- and some waiting for up to 20 years -- and with laws that make the it virtually imposible for the majority of lower-income, less-educated migrant workers to enter the country at all -- the reality is that those who want to reform the system so that it functions as it should are the true opponents of illegal immigration. And the politicians and pundits who oppose those reforms -- people who are content to keep those 11 million or so people living in the shadows of our society -- are the real "pro-illegals."
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Posted by: Honky the Nihilist... on Mar 30, 2009 12:18 AM
Current rating: 3 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
I am a Native American born of native parents who were born of native parents. When my great grandparents immigrated here in the early part of the last century, they didn't scurry across the border in the middle of the night but came here legally.
Aside from the author's situation and maybe people adopting children from abroad, immigration is a tool for the corporate elites to undercut the middle class. H1B visa holders prevent computer scientist and engineers from receiving the compensation they would otherwise receive. Illegals are likewise used to union bust and destroy blue collar wages.
America is not the world's welfare program.
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» Honky the Onanist writes, "...I am a Native American"
Posted by: GuitarBill
» "...I am a Native American"
Posted by: Honky the Nihilist...
» Idiot, you're of European origin, not native American.
Posted by: GuitarBill
» "Native American"?
Posted by: GuitarBill
» RE: "Native American"?
Posted by: AMERICAN VETERAN
» Yeah, tell me about it, GI Joe
Posted by: GuitarBill
» RE: Celtic, Anglo, Saxon, Teutonic, and Mandarin
Posted by: Xynyx
» RE: Celtic, Anglo, Saxon, Teutonic, and Mandarin
Posted by: babs
» RE: Celtic, Anglo, Saxon, Teutonic, and Mandarin
Posted by: Honky the Nihilist...
» RE: "...I am a Native American"
Posted by: LeeAnnG
» RE: "...I am a Native American"
Posted by: desidid
» RE: "...I am a Native American"
Posted by: john mont
» RE: "nation of immigrants" Lies
Posted by: CHD
» RE: "nation of immigrants" Lies
Posted by: laoma
» RE: "nation of immigrants" Lies
Posted by: CHD
» RE: "nation of immigrants" Lies
Posted by: babs
» I have a Dream: Hell is on its Way Along With Immigration Reform and Affirmative Action
Posted by: johnwinthrop
» With my final breath, I shall bear witness to the end of days.
Posted by: Honky the Nihilist...
» Native American?
Posted by: Obijuan
» RE: Native American?
Posted by: babs
» Are You Into Visigoths Too?
Posted by: johnwinthrop
» Mongrels?
Posted by: Honky the Nihilist...
» RE: "nation of immigrants" Lies
Posted by: MIST
» Good try, but poor article
Posted by: laoma
» RE: Good try, but poor article
Posted by: MIST
» RE: Good try, but poor article
Posted by: laoma
» RE: "nation of immigrants" Lies
Posted by: LeeAnnG
» RE: "nation of immigrants" Lies ----- I believe this to be more -----
Posted by: symcokid
» RE: "nation of immigrants" Lies
Posted by: phatkhat
» RE: "nation of immigrants" Lies
Posted by: luzmejor
» RE: "nation of immigrants" Lies --- Lies, lies and more lies.
Posted by: symcokid
» Agreed
Posted by: freelyb
» RE: Agreed
Posted by: babs
» Oh Franklin, You Turn Me On!
Posted by: johnwinthrop
» RE: "nation of immigrants" Lies
Posted by: marykane
» Honky the Onanist an immigrant?
Posted by: GuitarBill
» RE: Actually you are the descendant of European squatters
Posted by: 876
» RE: "nation of immigrants" Lies
Posted by: Juven
Comments are closed-
Posted by: Sojourner on Mar 30, 2009 1:04 AM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
All the appropriate forms were filed but when I personally went in to find out where I stood, none of the paperwork could be located.
It seems FICA staff at the frontlines spend so much time as inquistors, they get in the habit of thinking it is their money they are handling. Kafka didn't know the half of it.
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» Social Security fun
Posted by: BlueTigress
» Great story
Posted by: Sojourner
Comments are closed-
Posted by: janvdb on Mar 30, 2009 1:24 AM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
And, yes, you must hire a lawyer.
MOST Mexicans wait 10 to 20 years, so 5 was a mere walk in the park.
The system is deliberately structured to create an exploitable class of no-rights workers to undercut low-end American wages. The "illegals" have been openly tolerated for decades, yet denied reasonable access to rightful status.
The state and employers are deliberately collaborating to create a large class (about 5% of American workers, it is estimated) who are afraid to quit, afraid to sue, afraid to ask for decent conditions.
I myself met individuals who were deliberately hired for jobs requiring exposure to harmful chemicals; then when they became ill, they were simply sent back to Mexico do die. No coverage, no compensation, no legal rights, no lawsuit -- no problem!
The system is shameful.
Jan VanDenBerg
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» RE: Let's Stop Pretending That Americans Aren't Endangered At Work
Posted by: desidid
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Posted by: johnwinthrop on Mar 30, 2009 1:29 AM
Current rating: 3 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
What's needed is reversal of dreadful and arbitrary Plyer v Doe 5-4 decision by Brennan(ultra-activist judge) in 1982 letting illegals educate their kids in US as matter of right ("inchoate" right according to Brennan in typical Warren Court style genius reasoning).
Imprison employers who hire illegals
Turn all arrested illegal felons over to ICE and or appropriate security agencies.
Keep illegals out of hospital emergency rooms and out of any state welfare or health care for poor/working class program.
Currrent system already grants defacto amnesty. It sucks.
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» RE: Big Lie
Posted by: 113121
» Americans can't do their own cleaning?
Posted by: johnwinthrop
» Missed the point didn't you?
Posted by: 113121
» RE: Americans can't do their own cleaning?
Posted by: babs
» RE: Big Lie
Posted by: Lilykins
» RE: Big Lie
Posted by: johnwinthrop
» RE: Big Lie
Posted by: colinmeister
» Free Health Care a Big Lie
Posted by: johnwinthrop
» RE: Free Health Care a Big Lie
Posted by: babs
» I Could Just Kiss Those Big Lips (IF they were worth anything)
Posted by: johnwinthrop
» a PATRIOT explains "the Big Lie" to the Rest of Us...
Posted by: BlueBerry PickN
» Got a Passport, stud?
Posted by: johnwinthrop
» "Class"?
Posted by: GuitarBill
» Keepin It Flexible
Posted by: johnwinthrop
» Here's To Shakespeare, Samuel Johnson, Coleridge and Dead White Men.
Posted by: johnwinthrop
Comments are closed-
Posted by: RuthS on Mar 30, 2009 1:33 AM
Current rating: 4 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
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» everybody wants to GREASE THE SYSTEM & their own palms
Posted by: BlueBerry PickN
» RE: broken indeed
Posted by: nadine sellers
» RE: broken indeed
Posted by: jallegro
» RE: broken indeed
Posted by: sonny0412
Comments are closed-
Posted by: countingdaisies on Mar 30, 2009 2:03 AM
Current rating: 2 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
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» No, I think you're just as confused
Posted by: Beck
» I had the opposite reaction
Posted by: Gabba_Gabba_Hey
» RE: Now I'm not as confused. I'm merely dazed.
Posted by: symcokid
» RE: Now I'm not as confused.
Posted by: babs
» Love Me Love Me I'm A Liberal
Posted by: johnwinthrop
» Hey, babs . . .
Posted by: countingdaisies
Comments are closed-
Posted by: Jacksonian on Mar 30, 2009 2:56 AM
Current rating: 4 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
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» Not provable
Posted by: johnwinthrop
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Posted by: colinmeister on Mar 30, 2009 4:23 AM
Current rating: 4 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
I applied for a renewal on the first date I could - 6 months before my card ran out, paid the exhorbitant fees, had the "Biometrics" (Fingerprint and photograph) done, and waited.
My replacement card never arrived, despite being told by the DHS that all I had to do was wait a little longer. I finally filled out the form for a replacement, stating that I had not received my card. I was then told that they had sent my card - without any proof - and that I would have to apply and pay again, giving the reason that I had "Lost my card".
A nice little earner for the government if they do this to lots of legal residents.
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» Your link is absurd. Don't use it; identity theft.
Posted by: Beck
» UR Spam
Posted by: logansafi
» RE: your privacy center's a a joke
Posted by: masthead
» Don't click on that link (IDENTITY THEFT!)
Posted by: GuitarBill
» Have you reported him?
Posted by: BlueTigress
» Yes.
Posted by: GuitarBill
» RE: Yes.
Posted by: Wendiego
» Global Regular Expression Parser.
Posted by: GuitarBill
» Sed. The Unix Stream Editor.
Posted by: GuitarBill
Comments are closed-
Posted by: BlueBerry PickN on Mar 30, 2009 7:39 AM
Current rating: 4 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
& drilling down to nail every single 'deviant' of the system...
SO A SMARMY IMMIGRATION 'LAWYER' & his 'Friend' can have plenty of opportunity to CUT A PROFIT off the misery of Others...
& so the COPS have something to do... & an opportunity to *squeeze* immigrants & their associated friends... to 'do the Right Thing in the New Country'...
Its the "AMERICAN WAY"... washing hands & scratching backs...
is so much different from any other nationality's corruption, because it comes with a BIG ASS FLAG ON IT to assure the dedicated approval & fierce efforts of its loyal minions.
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Posted by: symcokid on Mar 30, 2009 8:36 AM
Current rating: 3 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
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» RE: The only immigrants that should have a free reign -----
Posted by: laoma
» "They are the descendents of the original Conquistadors..."
Posted by: Bliss Doubt
» RE: The only immigrants that should have a free reign -----
Posted by: Bliss Doubt
» The expression is "free rein" as with horses, caballero
Posted by: Gabba_Gabba_Hey
» Who decided to rescind the Treaty of Guadalupe Hidalgo?
Posted by: Beadmaster
» RE: The only immigrants that should have a free reign -----
Posted by: Juven
» RE: The only immigrants that should have a free reign -----
Posted by: Beadmaster
» RE: The only immigrants that should have a free reign ----- There are answers at ---
Posted by: symcokid
» RE: The only immigrants that should have a free reign -----
Posted by: babs
» RE: So Explain Why The Government Says
Posted by: desidid
» RE: So Explain Why The Government Says
Posted by: Juven
» you can add nebraska/iowa to that also
Posted by: zooeyhall
» RE: you can add nebraska/iowa to that also - didn't realize they were all over.
Posted by: symcokid
» International Law by Prof Symokid
Posted by: johnwinthrop
» RE: International Law by Prof Symokid
Posted by: symcokid
Comments are closed-
Posted by: laoma on Mar 30, 2009 8:39 AM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
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» RE: JH didn't follow the rules
Posted by: DanoM
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Posted by: popsicle67 on Mar 30, 2009 8:56 AM
Current rating: 4 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
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» RE: What I still can't wrap my mind around, try the following -----
Posted by: symcokid
» The Time for Open Immigration Has Passed
Posted by: johnwinthrop
» RE: The Time for Open Immigration Has Passed
Posted by: symcokid
Comments are closed-
Posted by: PortTabacco on Mar 30, 2009 9:27 AM
Current rating: 2 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Wasn't that your first mistake?
You married someone that broke the law.
People marry spouses in prison. So what?
That move doesn't create a great life for the free spouse does it?
Don't blame our Immigration laws for your mistake.
All countries have immigration laws.
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» RE: Had you followed the rules you wouldn't be whining.
Posted by: Xynyx
» She HAD been legal at first, then later she wasn't
Posted by: Gabba_Gabba_Hey
» Had you read the article, you wouldn't look so stupid.
Posted by: leafsong1
» RE: Had you followed the rules you wouldn't be whining.
Posted by: LeeAnnG
Comments are closed-
Posted by: Juven on Mar 30, 2009 9:45 AM
Current rating: 3 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
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» RE: No sympathy here
Posted by: PortTabacco
» RE: No sympathy here - Welcome to the "Home of the Free".
Posted by: symcokid
» RE: No sympathy here - Welcome to the "Home of the Free".
Posted by: Juven
» This was very well put, there are way too many
Posted by: outsideagitator
» RE: This was very well put, there are way too many
Posted by: Juven
Comments are closed-
Posted by: Archie1954 on Mar 30, 2009 10:33 AM
Current rating: 3 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
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» Shyster
Posted by: leafsong1
Comments are closed-
Posted by: aquariansun on Mar 30, 2009 11:02 AM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
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» RE: congratulations
Posted by: nadine sellers
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Posted by: carrotwax on Mar 30, 2009 11:26 AM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
The world changed from the economics of the 70s. Every wealthy nation, because of the deregulation and change of focus, had to be more protectionist. The poor nations were getting poorer, and it was generally known that more desperate people meant more attempts to emigrate.
In the 60s, my father decided to go to Canada. He just got out of the Peace Corps, and went to the Canadian embassy. At that meeting, they got him a job in Vancouver as a journalist via telephone. When he entered Canada by bus he was given a permanent resident slip on a piece of paper.
Now the immigration in Canada is very hard too, with years of waiting and the authorities doing their best to make things hard.
The problem is that if we go back to the way things were, then the world economy would create too many immigrants to cope. If we want to fix immigration, the only long term solution is to make the world in general a more equitable place.
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» National Differences Are Good: OH MY GOD, He's a Nazi!
Posted by: johnwinthrop
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Posted by: freelyb on Mar 30, 2009 11:50 AM
Current rating: 3 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
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» Repeal NAFTA and
Posted by: Bliss Doubt
Comments are closed-
Posted by: moyshekapoyre on Mar 30, 2009 11:53 AM
Current rating: 3 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Here's how I see it: Working (& disabled) people, anywhere in the world, have the right to the same standard of living, period. Those who go through the bourgeois sham process of being stamped legal are the same as scabs, receiving benefits at the expense of the rest of the world's workers.
Perhaps one day soon I'll fit into the category of scab as well. If I do, it will be because I prefer, at some practical level, comfort over international solidarity. But I will never be proud of being a scab. I will always do whatever I can to support my brothers and sisters who said "Fuck the system, we are humans too."
Down with national borders, and down with capitalism!
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» Funny thing: when Africans get independence, equality falls by the wayside
Posted by: johnwinthrop
» RE: White guy equates slavery with "safety"
Posted by: 876
» What do you think governents are for? Food Stamps and Affirmative Action? Security is It
Posted by: johnwinthrop
» To johnwinthrop et al.
Posted by: allUneedislove
» Please, don't feel horrified
Posted by: outsideagitator
Comments are closed-
Posted by: Gor on Mar 30, 2009 12:25 PM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
I vividly recall what the Korean American immigration lawyer we hired told us way back in 2002: that the immigration system, just like the rest of society, is not color blind. An Anglo-Saxon immigration applicant is mostly treated with respect and thus fast-tracked than say that of an African American who is getting married to a Tanzanian. We started the process of applying for permanent residency through H1 visa way back in 2002 and to date, we have not been granted residency despite the fact that we have paid all the fees due, delivered all the paperwork that is required and remained in status. We have spent close to 20k in legal fees. Since our country of origin is Kenya, we do not understand why we have had to wait this long because Kenya H1 visa applicants are generally fewer and never exceed their residency quota compared to say India or China for that matter.
In the meantime we have witnessed those who got tired or did not trust the system to treat them fairly and decided to get “married” to an American to hasten the process. Even though the author thinks that he was unfairly treated by INS, it is nothing compared to immigrants who are not married to Americans but have decided to stick to the legal path. I almost want to scream whenever I hear politicians (republicans mostly) say that those so called illegal immigrants should apply legally and go to the end of the queue – a queue that has never moved for us since 2003. It was only this year that I received travel permit after all these years. The permanent residency application is waiting on a stand-still queue.
On the positive side the state of limbo that my family has lived through for a long time has made us to be frugal and save substantially. For instance we decided that we would not make any major purchases like a house until our stay is assured. This recession has found us in a strong financial standing and we are in a position of buying a house and paying it off in less than five years should our residency be granted.
The US immigration system is designed to frustrate and keep out those who are likely to contribute the most to the society and let in those who are likely to depend most on tax payers’ dollars. As time goes, we have begun to question the merit and wisdom of wanting to stay here at all costs. We feel that with our savings and qualifications maybe we can stay in places that appreciate our contributions
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» RE: A legal imigrant married to a legal imigrant
Posted by: nadine sellers
» Well you sure were treated bad compared with????????
Posted by: johnwinthrop
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Posted by: peteymon on Mar 30, 2009 12:57 PM
Current rating: 3 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Don’t try this on your own. Get a lawyer – one that is well versed in immigration and also criminal law in case you or your spouse get any tickets that a good lawyer could plead down. To quote Burroughs, “It pays to pay the boys off”. Set aside about ten grand in legal fees.
Get and read a book published by Nolo called “Fiance and Marriage Visas” so you will have a clue what your lawyer is talking about. Once you read that book you won’t make mistakes like leaving the country or believing what immigration officers say.
We had two interviews for our I130. The fist was a fraud interview. They were trying to prove our marriage was fraudulent by interviewing us separately. I didn’t have a problem with that except that they wouldn’t look at the evidence that we had brought to prove we were legit. After that interview we didn’t hear anything for a few years. (My wife had a Master Hearing Date that kept on getting postponed into the future so she was temporarily legal.) We had to sue DHS with what is called a Mandamus to try to get our second interview and get us out of legal limbo. That was another $2500 in legal fees, but worth it because immigration granted us the interview to avoid going to court. That interview was not a fraud interview. The officer accepted our evidence and asked for a few other relevant documents that we didn’t bring: my wife’s divorce certificate with her ex-husband, and her new passport which was being processed at the Chinese embassy (In hindsight, it was a mistake to file for a new passport because they took the old, expired one). Thankfully, we were able to get those documents by the allotted deadline. We passed that interview and got the I130 approved.
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Posted by: wanealy on Mar 30, 2009 2:25 PM
Current rating: 2 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
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Posted by: zooeyhall on Mar 30, 2009 5:09 PM
Current rating: 3 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
If you climb a fence in the middle of the night, don't expect any sympathy however.
If you come here legally and took your place in the line, I will be the first to welcome you.
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» You speak nonsense and know little...
Posted by: logansafi
» saludos!
Posted by: Juven
Comments are closed-
Posted by: Nozka on Mar 30, 2009 5:10 PM
Current rating: 3 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
I have also gone through the immigration process with a formerly illegal (overstay visa) spouse and know the system first-hand. Without the aid of any lawyers (but using NOLO as others have suggested) my wife went from illegal alien to US citizen in just over four years. Yes, I have speculated that our being white and well educated helped to make the process easier, but this is just pure speculation and nothing more. In fact, our application was processed according to the timetables which are posted by the DHS (INS). Yes, we did go through some hassles, and our case wasn't without challenges - we had to get sponsored for example because I was a student at the time of our marriage - but I do believe that there are many like us who get though this successfully, even without paying the f-ing lawyers.
Yet, instead of merely chalking it up to my ethnicity and crying "foul," I think there are certain other factors which contributed to our success. First, we live in a district that is relatively small and, as others have noted, we did not move (out of the district) at least, during the processing period. If you look on the immigration website you can see very clearly how long the average processing times are for various forms and documents and how this can very from district to district. The author was from New York and moved to Florida, probably the two areas with the highest number of applicants. These places always have longer processing times.
Second, We did everything by the book. Although this wasn't easy, and I know it must be a nightmare for non-native speakers of English, the author, like myself, is a native speaker of English with a good command of the language. From my experience and perspective the system does work because I have seen it work.
So the question then is, did we get lucky, or did the author get unlucky? I think it's probably both. We really need to remember that we are dealing with a HUGE bureaucracy here, and it is the nature of bureaucracies to be complex, ineffective, and cumbersome. Go back and read your Kafka. Yes, of course when you get lost or stuck in the system you're going to experience the proverbial nightmare, and this is no real solace to anyone who has or currently is navigating the corridors; however, no one as yet has really found a way around this. The "little" district where my wife was sworn in as a new citizen holds the ceremony for 900 people a month, and the citizenship application is only one of many, many forms.
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Posted by: Nozka on Mar 30, 2009 5:11 PM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Finally, the author points out, as if it were really a big surprise, that once he got some lawyers involved, the cogs of the machine suddenly started to move. So what? Is that not the case in every single area of government in every country on earth? Why does he seem to suggest that this is such a revelation? It is nothing of the sort.
Is this system flawed? Of course. Does it grind people into a pulp and spit them into the ether? Absolutely. Could we reform it? You bet. But its not the worst system in the world, not the worst bureaucracy. Try living in a place where you need permission to travel from one area to the next, or a visa just to leave the country. I have. This system is a playdate at Chuck E Cheese compared to some places.
I guess what I'm bothered by here is the lack of balance in this kind article, which is why I appreciate the opportunity for a rebuttal. What is really wrong is the fact that we need such a system for immigration in the first place. I have always understood intuitively that, as long as we have an imbalance of wealth and opportunity in the world, there will be emigration and immigration. This is the root of the "problem" that no one ever addresses. Fixing the bureaucratic nightmare of the INS is useless; we need to provide opportunity for others so that there is no need for large-scale immigration in the first place.
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Posted by: gellero1 on Mar 30, 2009 5:45 PM
Current rating: 4 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
What about urban congestion, energy, tax resources.
The Boo Hoo Lobby is out of touch with the working man.
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» RE: I'm real tired of this........
Posted by: Bliss Doubt
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Posted by: rickiey on Mar 30, 2009 8:20 PM
Current rating: 4 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
I can't find anyone on the right or the left that thinks that any part of our immigration system works correctly.
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» RE: Josh is a liar
Posted by: Joshua Holland
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Posted by: Nicks on Mar 30, 2009 9:13 PM
Current rating: 2 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
I really dont appreciated being called an "Alien" though, even now as a US resident. I was born in Australia, not Mars. I am a Human being, not Martian. I wish this word to reference foreigners was not used as it is quite degrading. In Australia, the word foreigner is used. Alien is reserved for the little green men that abduct you in the night and stick probes in your anus.
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» Are You Alienated, James Dean?
Posted by: johnwinthrop
» RE: Little Green Men nonsense
Posted by: Old Skeptic
» Americans are very scared of the Little Green Men!
Posted by: logansafi
» not all of us some are just
Posted by: Juven
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Posted by: richholland on Mar 31, 2009 9:01 AM
Current rating: 4 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
step 2 learn Spanish
enter USA as an illegal immigrant.
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» RU scared of the boogey man?
Posted by: logansafi
» RE: U scared of the boogey man?
Posted by: Juven
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Posted by: 876 on Mar 31, 2009 11:45 AM
Current rating: 3 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
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» Well said!
Posted by: logansafi
» RE: Well said!
Posted by: Juven
» RE: I couldn't have said it better, type ANAHUAC in your tool bar.
Posted by: symcokid
» pfft!
Posted by: Juven
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Posted by: veggiegrrrl on Mar 31, 2009 11:48 AM
Current rating: 3 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
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Posted by: desidid on Mar 31, 2009 1:09 PM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
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Posted by: Old Skeptic on Mar 31, 2009 2:56 PM
Current rating: 3 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Originally there were no nations, other than whatever territory a particular tribe might control. The nations that now exist all have laws governing immigration. If you want strict laws against illegal immigration, check out Mexico's! An illegal alien in Mexico can get up to 2 years in prison just for violating their border. So the idea that there exists a group of people with a de facto right to cross our border if they wish is totally bogus! Just the self-serving excuses of people who don't respect the laws and national sovereignty of other nations.
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» Nation of legalistic clowns
Posted by: logansafi
» RE: Nation of legalistic clowns
Posted by: Juven
» RE: The Natives had laws too which European squatters defied
Posted by: Juven
Comments are closed-
Posted by: doctorsquared on Mar 31, 2009 8:34 PM
Current rating: 2 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
But seriously...the immigration system should be streamlined at the very least for people we need in the US, like engineers, scientists, primary care physicians (you know, the kinds of jobs that we used to be the best or at least top notch at, but which now Americans choose less often because they are hard or don't pay as well as financial skullduggery).
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» RE: Asinine...maybe
Posted by: Old Skeptic
» Not so much the IT sector
Posted by: doctorsquared
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Posted by: dezoars on Apr 1, 2009 3:57 PM
Current rating: Not yet rated [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
1) It's not enough to ask a single immigration official about a particular issue. The more you ask, the more different answers you may get. The more answers, the more complicated the problem, and the more likely it is that you are in a gray area that's going to spell trouble down the line, and
2) Don't do anything to jeopardize your immigration status unless you have it in writing that it's going to be OK.
As an immigrant who became a citizen in 2005, I quickly realized that this labyrinthine, Kafkaesque system was not to be tested. I never jay-walked, paid late on a fine or taxes, or joined any organization that might be considered politically iffy (since these were the Bush years). Did you wife really need to take that trip into international waters?
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Posted by: foxxx on Apr 1, 2009 7:55 PM
Current rating: Not yet rated [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
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Posted by: knight on Apr 1, 2009 10:05 PM
Current rating: 2 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
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Posted by: sonny0412 on Apr 2, 2009 7:51 AM
Current rating: 3 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
we have given the mexican the bad press or negative comments why?these are good hard working people,they have families ,they are a nation of people who strive for the american dream..meeting the basic needs..car ,home and food..nothing more...this country bought california from the mexican people and now we are trying really hard to keep them out..why? if we are trying to do it right then,we need to not allow ,,,the black,or white or any race thats not native here..
and so far the american indian and the mexican are the only true natives here in america.
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Posted by: WillC on Apr 6, 2009 11:15 AM
Current rating: Not yet rated [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
This satirical video I created with some friends tries to get at this irony: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-30BZtpvaTY
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Posted by: Honky the Nihilist... on Mar 30, 2009 12:18 AM
Current rating: 3 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
I am a Native American born of native parents who were born of native parents. When my great grandparents immigrated here in the early part of the last century, they didn't scurry across the border in the middle of the night but came here legally.
Aside from the author's situation and maybe people adopting children from abroad, immigration is a tool for the corporate elites to undercut the middle class. H1B visa holders prevent computer scientist and engineers from receiving the compensation they would otherwise receive. Illegals are likewise used to union bust and destroy blue collar wages.
America is not the world's welfare program.
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» Honky the Onanist writes, "...I am a Native American"
Posted by: GuitarBill
» "...I am a Native American"
Posted by: Honky the Nihilist...
» Idiot, you're of European origin, not native American.
Posted by: GuitarBill
» "Native American"?
Posted by: GuitarBill
» RE: "Native American"?
Posted by: AMERICAN VETERAN
» Yeah, tell me about it, GI Joe
Posted by: GuitarBill
» RE: Celtic, Anglo, Saxon, Teutonic, and Mandarin
Posted by: Xynyx
» RE: Celtic, Anglo, Saxon, Teutonic, and Mandarin
Posted by: babs
» RE: Celtic, Anglo, Saxon, Teutonic, and Mandarin
Posted by: Honky the Nihilist...
» RE: "...I am a Native American"
Posted by: LeeAnnG
» RE: "...I am a Native American"
Posted by: desidid
» RE: "...I am a Native American"
Posted by: john mont
» RE: "nation of immigrants" Lies
Posted by: CHD
» RE: "nation of immigrants" Lies
Posted by: laoma
» RE: "nation of immigrants" Lies
Posted by: CHD
» RE: "nation of immigrants" Lies
Posted by: babs
» I have a Dream: Hell is on its Way Along With Immigration Reform and Affirmative Action
Posted by: johnwinthrop
» With my final breath, I shall bear witness to the end of days.
Posted by: Honky the Nihilist...
» Native American?
Posted by: Obijuan
» RE: Native American?
Posted by: babs
» Are You Into Visigoths Too?
Posted by: johnwinthrop
» Mongrels?
Posted by: Honky the Nihilist...
» RE: "nation of immigrants" Lies
Posted by: MIST
» Good try, but poor article
Posted by: laoma
» RE: Good try, but poor article
Posted by: MIST
» RE: Good try, but poor article
Posted by: laoma
» RE: "nation of immigrants" Lies
Posted by: LeeAnnG
» RE: "nation of immigrants" Lies ----- I believe this to be more -----
Posted by: symcokid
» RE: "nation of immigrants" Lies
Posted by: phatkhat
» RE: "nation of immigrants" Lies
Posted by: luzmejor
» RE: "nation of immigrants" Lies --- Lies, lies and more lies.
Posted by: symcokid
» Agreed
Posted by: freelyb
» RE: Agreed
Posted by: babs
» Oh Franklin, You Turn Me On!
Posted by: johnwinthrop
» RE: "nation of immigrants" Lies
Posted by: marykane
» Honky the Onanist an immigrant?
Posted by: GuitarBill
» RE: Actually you are the descendant of European squatters
Posted by: 876
» RE: "nation of immigrants" Lies
Posted by: Juven
Comments are closed-
Posted by: Sojourner on Mar 30, 2009 1:04 AM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
All the appropriate forms were filed but when I personally went in to find out where I stood, none of the paperwork could be located.
It seems FICA staff at the frontlines spend so much time as inquistors, they get in the habit of thinking it is their money they are handling. Kafka didn't know the half of it.
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» Social Security fun
Posted by: BlueTigress
» Great story
Posted by: Sojourner
Comments are closed-
Posted by: janvdb on Mar 30, 2009 1:24 AM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
And, yes, you must hire a lawyer.
MOST Mexicans wait 10 to 20 years, so 5 was a mere walk in the park.
The system is deliberately structured to create an exploitable class of no-rights workers to undercut low-end American wages. The "illegals" have been openly tolerated for decades, yet denied reasonable access to rightful status.
The state and employers are deliberately collaborating to create a large class (about 5% of American workers, it is estimated) who are afraid to quit, afraid to sue, afraid to ask for decent conditions.
I myself met individuals who were deliberately hired for jobs requiring exposure to harmful chemicals; then when they became ill, they were simply sent back to Mexico do die. No coverage, no compensation, no legal rights, no lawsuit -- no problem!
The system is shameful.
Jan VanDenBerg
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» RE: Let's Stop Pretending That Americans Aren't Endangered At Work
Posted by: desidid
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Posted by: johnwinthrop on Mar 30, 2009 1:29 AM
Current rating: 3 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
What's needed is reversal of dreadful and arbitrary Plyer v Doe 5-4 decision by Brennan(ultra-activist judge) in 1982 letting illegals educate their kids in US as matter of right ("inchoate" right according to Brennan in typical Warren Court style genius reasoning).
Imprison employers who hire illegals
Turn all arrested illegal felons over to ICE and or appropriate security agencies.
Keep illegals out of hospital emergency rooms and out of any state welfare or health care for poor/working class program.
Currrent system already grants defacto amnesty. It sucks.
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» RE: Big Lie
Posted by: 113121
» Americans can't do their own cleaning?
Posted by: johnwinthrop
» Missed the point didn't you?
Posted by: 113121
» RE: Americans can't do their own cleaning?
Posted by: babs
» RE: Big Lie
Posted by: Lilykins
» RE: Big Lie
Posted by: johnwinthrop
» RE: Big Lie
Posted by: colinmeister
» Free Health Care a Big Lie
Posted by: johnwinthrop
» RE: Free Health Care a Big Lie
Posted by: babs
» I Could Just Kiss Those Big Lips (IF they were worth anything)
Posted by: johnwinthrop
» a PATRIOT explains "the Big Lie" to the Rest of Us...
Posted by: BlueBerry PickN
» Got a Passport, stud?
Posted by: johnwinthrop
» "Class"?
Posted by: GuitarBill
» Keepin It Flexible
Posted by: johnwinthrop
» Here's To Shakespeare, Samuel Johnson, Coleridge and Dead White Men.
Posted by: johnwinthrop
Comments are closed-
Posted by: RuthS on Mar 30, 2009 1:33 AM
Current rating: 4 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
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» everybody wants to GREASE THE SYSTEM & their own palms
Posted by: BlueBerry PickN
» RE: broken indeed
Posted by: nadine sellers
» RE: broken indeed
Posted by: jallegro
» RE: broken indeed
Posted by: sonny0412
Comments are closed-
Posted by: countingdaisies on Mar 30, 2009 2:03 AM
Current rating: 2 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
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» No, I think you're just as confused
Posted by: Beck
» I had the opposite reaction
Posted by: Gabba_Gabba_Hey
» RE: Now I'm not as confused. I'm merely dazed.
Posted by: symcokid
» RE: Now I'm not as confused.
Posted by: babs
» Love Me Love Me I'm A Liberal
Posted by: johnwinthrop
» Hey, babs . . .
Posted by: countingdaisies
Comments are closed-
Posted by: Jacksonian on Mar 30, 2009 2:56 AM
Current rating: 4 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
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» Not provable
Posted by: johnwinthrop
Comments are closed-
Posted by: colinmeister on Mar 30, 2009 4:23 AM
Current rating: 4 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
I applied for a renewal on the first date I could - 6 months before my card ran out, paid the exhorbitant fees, had the "Biometrics" (Fingerprint and photograph) done, and waited.
My replacement card never arrived, despite being told by the DHS that all I had to do was wait a little longer. I finally filled out the form for a replacement, stating that I had not received my card. I was then told that they had sent my card - without any proof - and that I would have to apply and pay again, giving the reason that I had "Lost my card".
A nice little earner for the government if they do this to lots of legal residents.
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» Your link is absurd. Don't use it; identity theft.
Posted by: Beck
» UR Spam
Posted by: logansafi
» RE: your privacy center's a a joke
Posted by: masthead
» Don't click on that link (IDENTITY THEFT!)
Posted by: GuitarBill
» Have you reported him?
Posted by: BlueTigress
» Yes.
Posted by: GuitarBill
» RE: Yes.
Posted by: Wendiego
» Global Regular Expression Parser.
Posted by: GuitarBill
» Sed. The Unix Stream Editor.
Posted by: GuitarBill
Comments are closed-
Posted by: BlueBerry PickN on Mar 30, 2009 7:39 AM
Current rating: 4 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
& drilling down to nail every single 'deviant' of the system...
SO A SMARMY IMMIGRATION 'LAWYER' & his 'Friend' can have plenty of opportunity to CUT A PROFIT off the misery of Others...
& so the COPS have something to do... & an opportunity to *squeeze* immigrants & their associated friends... to 'do the Right Thing in the New Country'...
Its the "AMERICAN WAY"... washing hands & scratching backs...
is so much different from any other nationality's corruption, because it comes with a BIG ASS FLAG ON IT to assure the dedicated approval & fierce efforts of its loyal minions.
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Posted by: symcokid on Mar 30, 2009 8:36 AM
Current rating: 3 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
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» RE: The only immigrants that should have a free reign -----
Posted by: laoma
» "They are the descendents of the original Conquistadors..."
Posted by: Bliss Doubt
» RE: The only immigrants that should have a free reign -----
Posted by: Bliss Doubt
» The expression is "free rein" as with horses, caballero
Posted by: Gabba_Gabba_Hey
» Who decided to rescind the Treaty of Guadalupe Hidalgo?
Posted by: Beadmaster
» RE: The only immigrants that should have a free reign -----
Posted by: Juven
» RE: The only immigrants that should have a free reign -----
Posted by: Beadmaster
» RE: The only immigrants that should have a free reign ----- There are answers at ---
Posted by: symcokid
» RE: The only immigrants that should have a free reign -----
Posted by: babs
» RE: So Explain Why The Government Says
Posted by: desidid
» RE: So Explain Why The Government Says
Posted by: Juven
» you can add nebraska/iowa to that also
Posted by: zooeyhall
» RE: you can add nebraska/iowa to that also - didn't realize they were all over.
Posted by: symcokid
» International Law by Prof Symokid
Posted by: johnwinthrop
» RE: International Law by Prof Symokid
Posted by: symcokid
Comments are closed-
Posted by: laoma on Mar 30, 2009 8:39 AM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
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» RE: JH didn't follow the rules
Posted by: DanoM
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Posted by: popsicle67 on Mar 30, 2009 8:56 AM
Current rating: 4 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
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» RE: What I still can't wrap my mind around, try the following -----
Posted by: symcokid
» The Time for Open Immigration Has Passed
Posted by: johnwinthrop
» RE: The Time for Open Immigration Has Passed
Posted by: symcokid
Comments are closed-
Posted by: PortTabacco on Mar 30, 2009 9:27 AM
Current rating: 2 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Wasn't that your first mistake?
You married someone that broke the law.
People marry spouses in prison. So what?
That move doesn't create a great life for the free spouse does it?
Don't blame our Immigration laws for your mistake.
All countries have immigration laws.
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» RE: Had you followed the rules you wouldn't be whining.
Posted by: Xynyx
» She HAD been legal at first, then later she wasn't
Posted by: Gabba_Gabba_Hey
» Had you read the article, you wouldn't look so stupid.
Posted by: leafsong1
» RE: Had you followed the rules you wouldn't be whining.
Posted by: LeeAnnG
Comments are closed-
Posted by: Juven on Mar 30, 2009 9:45 AM
Current rating: 3 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
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» RE: No sympathy here
Posted by: PortTabacco
» RE: No sympathy here - Welcome to the "Home of the Free".
Posted by: symcokid
» RE: No sympathy here - Welcome to the "Home of the Free".
Posted by: Juven
» This was very well put, there are way too many
Posted by: outsideagitator
» RE: This was very well put, there are way too many
Posted by: Juven
Comments are closed-
Posted by: Archie1954 on Mar 30, 2009 10:33 AM
Current rating: 3 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
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» Shyster
Posted by: leafsong1
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Posted by: aquariansun on Mar 30, 2009 11:02 AM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
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» RE: congratulations
Posted by: nadine sellers
Comments are closed-
Posted by: carrotwax on Mar 30, 2009 11:26 AM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
The world changed from the economics of the 70s. Every wealthy nation, because of the deregulation and change of focus, had to be more protectionist. The poor nations were getting poorer, and it was generally known that more desperate people meant more attempts to emigrate.
In the 60s, my father decided to go to Canada. He just got out of the Peace Corps, and went to the Canadian embassy. At that meeting, they got him a job in Vancouver as a journalist via telephone. When he entered Canada by bus he was given a permanent resident slip on a piece of paper.
Now the immigration in Canada is very hard too, with years of waiting and the authorities doing their best to make things hard.
The problem is that if we go back to the way things were, then the world economy would create too many immigrants to cope. If we want to fix immigration, the only long term solution is to make the world in general a more equitable place.
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» National Differences Are Good: OH MY GOD, He's a Nazi!
Posted by: johnwinthrop
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Posted by: freelyb on Mar 30, 2009 11:50 AM
Current rating: 3 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
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» Repeal NAFTA and
Posted by: Bliss Doubt
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Posted by: moyshekapoyre on Mar 30, 2009 11:53 AM
Current rating: 3 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Here's how I see it: Working (& disabled) people, anywhere in the world, have the right to the same standard of living, period. Those who go through the bourgeois sham process of being stamped legal are the same as scabs, receiving benefits at the expense of the rest of the world's workers.
Perhaps one day soon I'll fit into the category of scab as well. If I do, it will be because I prefer, at some practical level, comfort over international solidarity. But I will never be proud of being a scab. I will always do whatever I can to support my brothers and sisters who said "Fuck the system, we are humans too."
Down with national borders, and down with capitalism!
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» Funny thing: when Africans get independence, equality falls by the wayside
Posted by: johnwinthrop
» RE: White guy equates slavery with "safety"
Posted by: 876
» What do you think governents are for? Food Stamps and Affirmative Action? Security is It
Posted by: johnwinthrop
» To johnwinthrop et al.
Posted by: allUneedislove
» Please, don't feel horrified
Posted by: outsideagitator
Comments are closed-
Posted by: Gor on Mar 30, 2009 12:25 PM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
I vividly recall what the Korean American immigration lawyer we hired told us way back in 2002: that the immigration system, just like the rest of society, is not color blind. An Anglo-Saxon immigration applicant is mostly treated with respect and thus fast-tracked than say that of an African American who is getting married to a Tanzanian. We started the process of applying for permanent residency through H1 visa way back in 2002 and to date, we have not been granted residency despite the fact that we have paid all the fees due, delivered all the paperwork that is required and remained in status. We have spent close to 20k in legal fees. Since our country of origin is Kenya, we do not understand why we have had to wait this long because Kenya H1 visa applicants are generally fewer and never exceed their residency quota compared to say India or China for that matter.
In the meantime we have witnessed those who got tired or did not trust the system to treat them fairly and decided to get “married” to an American to hasten the process. Even though the author thinks that he was unfairly treated by INS, it is nothing compared to immigrants who are not married to Americans but have decided to stick to the legal path. I almost want to scream whenever I hear politicians (republicans mostly) say that those so called illegal immigrants should apply legally and go to the end of the queue – a queue that has never moved for us since 2003. It was only this year that I received travel permit after all these years. The permanent residency application is waiting on a stand-still queue.
On the positive side the state of limbo that my family has lived through for a long time has made us to be frugal and save substantially. For instance we decided that we would not make any major purchases like a house until our stay is assured. This recession has found us in a strong financial standing and we are in a position of buying a house and paying it off in less than five years should our residency be granted.
The US immigration system is designed to frustrate and keep out those who are likely to contribute the most to the society and let in those who are likely to depend most on tax payers’ dollars. As time goes, we have begun to question the merit and wisdom of wanting to stay here at all costs. We feel that with our savings and qualifications maybe we can stay in places that appreciate our contributions
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» RE: A legal imigrant married to a legal imigrant
Posted by: nadine sellers
» Well you sure were treated bad compared with????????
Posted by: johnwinthrop
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Posted by: peteymon on Mar 30, 2009 12:57 PM
Current rating: 3 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Don’t try this on your own. Get a lawyer – one that is well versed in immigration and also criminal law in case you or your spouse get any tickets that a good lawyer could plead down. To quote Burroughs, “It pays to pay the boys off”. Set aside about ten grand in legal fees.
Get and read a book published by Nolo called “Fiance and Marriage Visas” so you will have a clue what your lawyer is talking about. Once you read that book you won’t make mistakes like leaving the country or believing what immigration officers say.
We had two interviews for our I130. The fist was a fraud interview. They were trying to prove our marriage was fraudulent by interviewing us separately. I didn’t have a problem with that except that they wouldn’t look at the evidence that we had brought to prove we were legit. After that interview we didn’t hear anything for a few years. (My wife had a Master Hearing Date that kept on getting postponed into the future so she was temporarily legal.) We had to sue DHS with what is called a Mandamus to try to get our second interview and get us out of legal limbo. That was another $2500 in legal fees, but worth it because immigration granted us the interview to avoid going to court. That interview was not a fraud interview. The officer accepted our evidence and asked for a few other relevant documents that we didn’t bring: my wife’s divorce certificate with her ex-husband, and her new passport which was being processed at the Chinese embassy (In hindsight, it was a mistake to file for a new passport because they took the old, expired one). Thankfully, we were able to get those documents by the allotted deadline. We passed that interview and got the I130 approved.
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Posted by: wanealy on Mar 30, 2009 2:25 PM
Current rating: 2 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
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Posted by: zooeyhall on Mar 30, 2009 5:09 PM
Current rating: 3 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
If you climb a fence in the middle of the night, don't expect any sympathy however.
If you come here legally and took your place in the line, I will be the first to welcome you.
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» You speak nonsense and know little...
Posted by: logansafi
» saludos!
Posted by: Juven
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Posted by: Nozka on Mar 30, 2009 5:10 PM
Current rating: 3 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
I have also gone through the immigration process with a formerly illegal (overstay visa) spouse and know the system first-hand. Without the aid of any lawyers (but using NOLO as others have suggested) my wife went from illegal alien to US citizen in just over four years. Yes, I have speculated that our being white and well educated helped to make the process easier, but this is just pure speculation and nothing more. In fact, our application was processed according to the timetables which are posted by the DHS (INS). Yes, we did go through some hassles, and our case wasn't without challenges - we had to get sponsored for example because I was a student at the time of our marriage - but I do believe that there are many like us who get though this successfully, even without paying the f-ing lawyers.
Yet, instead of merely chalking it up to my ethnicity and crying "foul," I think there are certain other factors which contributed to our success. First, we live in a district that is relatively small and, as others have noted, we did not move (out of the district) at least, during the processing period. If you look on the immigration website you can see very clearly how long the average processing times are for various forms and documents and how this can very from district to district. The author was from New York and moved to Florida, probably the two areas with the highest number of applicants. These places always have longer processing times.
Second, We did everything by the book. Although this wasn't easy, and I know it must be a nightmare for non-native speakers of English, the author, like myself, is a native speaker of English with a good command of the language. From my experience and perspective the system does work because I have seen it work.
So the question then is, did we get lucky, or did the author get unlucky? I think it's probably both. We really need to remember that we are dealing with a HUGE bureaucracy here, and it is the nature of bureaucracies to be complex, ineffective, and cumbersome. Go back and read your Kafka. Yes, of course when you get lost or stuck in the system you're going to experience the proverbial nightmare, and this is no real solace to anyone who has or currently is navigating the corridors; however, no one as yet has really found a way around this. The "little" district where my wife was sworn in as a new citizen holds the ceremony for 900 people a month, and the citizenship application is only one of many, many forms.
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Posted by: Nozka on Mar 30, 2009 5:11 PM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Finally, the author points out, as if it were really a big surprise, that once he got some lawyers involved, the cogs of the machine suddenly started to move. So what? Is that not the case in every single area of government in every country on earth? Why does he seem to suggest that this is such a revelation? It is nothing of the sort.
Is this system flawed? Of course. Does it grind people into a pulp and spit them into the ether? Absolutely. Could we reform it? You bet. But its not the worst system in the world, not the worst bureaucracy. Try living in a place where you need permission to travel from one area to the next, or a visa just to leave the country. I have. This system is a playdate at Chuck E Cheese compared to some places.
I guess what I'm bothered by here is the lack of balance in this kind article, which is why I appreciate the opportunity for a rebuttal. What is really wrong is the fact that we need such a system for immigration in the first place. I have always understood intuitively that, as long as we have an imbalance of wealth and opportunity in the world, there will be emigration and immigration. This is the root of the "problem" that no one ever addresses. Fixing the bureaucratic nightmare of the INS is useless; we need to provide opportunity for others so that there is no need for large-scale immigration in the first place.
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Posted by: gellero1 on Mar 30, 2009 5:45 PM
Current rating: 4 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
What about urban congestion, energy, tax resources.
The Boo Hoo Lobby is out of touch with the working man.
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» RE: I'm real tired of this........
Posted by: Bliss Doubt
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Posted by: rickiey on Mar 30, 2009 8:20 PM
Current rating: 4 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
I can't find anyone on the right or the left that thinks that any part of our immigration system works correctly.
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» RE: Josh is a liar
Posted by: Joshua Holland
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Posted by: Nicks on Mar 30, 2009 9:13 PM
Current rating: 2 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
I really dont appreciated being called an "Alien" though, even now as a US resident. I was born in Australia, not Mars. I am a Human being, not Martian. I wish this word to reference foreigners was not used as it is quite degrading. In Australia, the word foreigner is used. Alien is reserved for the little green men that abduct you in the night and stick probes in your anus.
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» Are You Alienated, James Dean?
Posted by: johnwinthrop
» RE: Little Green Men nonsense
Posted by: Old Skeptic
» Americans are very scared of the Little Green Men!
Posted by: logansafi
» not all of us some are just
Posted by: Juven
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Posted by: richholland on Mar 31, 2009 9:01 AM
Current rating: 4 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
step 2 learn Spanish
enter USA as an illegal immigrant.
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» RU scared of the boogey man?
Posted by: logansafi
» RE: U scared of the boogey man?
Posted by: Juven
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Posted by: 876 on Mar 31, 2009 11:45 AM
Current rating: 3 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
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» Well said!
Posted by: logansafi
» RE: Well said!
Posted by: Juven
» RE: I couldn't have said it better, type ANAHUAC in your tool bar.
Posted by: symcokid
» pfft!
Posted by: Juven
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Posted by: veggiegrrrl on Mar 31, 2009 11:48 AM
Current rating: 3 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
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Posted by: desidid on Mar 31, 2009 1:09 PM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
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Posted by: Old Skeptic on Mar 31, 2009 2:56 PM
Current rating: 3 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Originally there were no nations, other than whatever territory a particular tribe might control. The nations that now exist all have laws governing immigration. If you want strict laws against illegal immigration, check out Mexico's! An illegal alien in Mexico can get up to 2 years in prison just for violating their border. So the idea that there exists a group of people with a de facto right to cross our border if they wish is totally bogus! Just the self-serving excuses of people who don't respect the laws and national sovereignty of other nations.
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» Nation of legalistic clowns
Posted by: logansafi
» RE: Nation of legalistic clowns
Posted by: Juven
» RE: The Natives had laws too which European squatters defied
Posted by: Juven
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Posted by: doctorsquared on Mar 31, 2009 8:34 PM
Current rating: 2 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
But seriously...the immigration system should be streamlined at the very least for people we need in the US, like engineers, scientists, primary care physicians (you know, the kinds of jobs that we used to be the best or at least top notch at, but which now Americans choose less often because they are hard or don't pay as well as financial skullduggery).
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» RE: Asinine...maybe
Posted by: Old Skeptic
» Not so much the IT sector
Posted by: doctorsquared
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Posted by: dezoars on Apr 1, 2009 3:57 PM
Current rating: Not yet rated [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
1) It's not enough to ask a single immigration official about a particular issue. The more you ask, the more different answers you may get. The more answers, the more complicated the problem, and the more likely it is that you are in a gray area that's going to spell trouble down the line, and
2) Don't do anything to jeopardize your immigration status unless you have it in writing that it's going to be OK.
As an immigrant who became a citizen in 2005, I quickly realized that this labyrinthine, Kafkaesque system was not to be tested. I never jay-walked, paid late on a fine or taxes, or joined any organization that might be considered politically iffy (since these were the Bush years). Did you wife really need to take that trip into international waters?
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Posted by: foxxx on Apr 1, 2009 7:55 PM
Current rating: Not yet rated [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
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Posted by: knight on Apr 1, 2009 10:05 PM
Current rating: 2 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
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Posted by: sonny0412 on Apr 2, 2009 7:51 AM
Current rating: 3 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
we have given the mexican the bad press or negative comments why?these are good hard working people,they have families ,they are a nation of people who strive for the american dream..meeting the basic needs..car ,home and food..nothing more...this country bought california from the mexican people and now we are trying really hard to keep them out..why? if we are trying to do it right then,we need to not allow ,,,the black,or white or any race thats not native here..
and so far the american indian and the mexican are the only true natives here in america.
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Posted by: WillC on Apr 6, 2009 11:15 AM
Current rating: Not yet rated [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
This satirical video I created with some friends tries to get at this irony: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-30BZtpvaTY
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Did the Mafia Set Off a Series of Racial Battles with African Migrants?
Officials Hid Truth of Migrant Deaths in Jails
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