Home
Archive
Columnists
Video
Blogs
Discuss
About
Search
Donate
Advertise
Advertisement
Advertisement
Advertisement
Advertisement
Register to Vote: Rock the Vote, powered by Working Assets Wireless
Advertisement
  • AlterNetYour turn

Support AlterNet
Do you value the information you're getting from AlterNet? Please show your support with a tax-deductible donation.


Feedback
Tell us how we're doing.

Health & Wellness

How Long Will Your Doctor Continue Accepting Private Insurance?

By Maggie Mahar, Health Beat. Posted July 18, 2008.


Doctors are getting fed up with private insurers. Here's a look at what out-of-pocket costs could look like for patients.
Advertisement

This article originally appeared on Health Beat.

More and more doctors are fed up with private insurers. It's not just a question of how stingy they are, but how difficult it is to get reimbursed. Paperwork, phone calls, insurers who play games by deliberately making reimbursement forms difficult to interpret ...

Some physicians have just said "no" to insurers.

What does this mean for patients? Business models vary. Some doctors charge by the minute. I recently read about a physician who punches a time clock when the appointment begins. She has calculated that her time is worth $2 per minute. Fifty-nine minutes = $118. Will you be paying cash, or by charge today? Somehow, I think the meter would make me nervous. I suspect I might begin talking very quickly. But this is only one model.

Rather than charging by the minute, some doctors make fee-for-service charges. In those cases, many physicians mark up their fees well beyond what an insurer would pay. But, they point out, they also spend more time with their patients. No one feels rushed.

A story in a New Jersey newspaper describes how physicians in Northern Jersey have begun following in the footsteps of "elite Manhattan doctors and are withdrawing from all insurance plans." The article compares fees with and without insurance. On the right, the fees that insurers typically pay for these services; on the left, the fees that Jersey doctors who don't take insurance charge:

  • Mastectomy: $5,000 / $900
  • Ruptured abdominal aneurysm: $8,000 / $1,800
  • Routine screening mammogram: $350 / $100
  • Initial neurological consultation: $400 / $100

Some Doctors Share Savings with Patients

Other physicians find that if they don't take insurance, they can cut their overhead and actually charge patients less.

Over at Revolution Health, "Dr. Val and the Voice of Reason" tells how Dr. Alan Dappen has set up his practice:

"He is available to his patients 24 hours a day, 7 days a week, by phone, e-mail and in person. Visits may be scheduled on the same day if needed, prescriptions may be refilled any time without an office visit, he makes house calls, and all records are kept private and digital on a hard drive in his office.

"How much do you think this costs? Would you believe only about $300/year?"

Dappen has streamlined his practice. It's not just that he doesn't need an assistant to keep up with stacks of insurance paperwork. In general, he keeps his overhead low, offers full price transparency, has "physician extenders" who work with him, and "charges people for his time, not for a complex menu of tests and procedures."

The key is that Dappen practices very conservative medicine.

"I believe in doing what is necessary and not doing what is not necessary," he says. "The health care system is broken because it has perverse incentives, complicated reimbursement strategies, and cuts the patient out of the billing process. When patients don't care what something costs, and believe that everything should be free, doctors will charge as much as they can. Third-party payers use medical records to deny coverage to patients, collectively bargain for lower reimbursement, and set arbitrary fees that reward tests and procedures. This creates a bizarre positive feedback loop that results in a feeding frenzy of billing and unnecessary charges, tests and procedures. Unlike any other sector, more competition actually drives up costs."

Dappen has it right about competition in the health care marketplace. Studies show that in areas where there are more hospitals competing with each other, hospital bills are higher. This is in part because hospitals jousting for market share all invest the same cutting-edge equipment. The only way to pay for it is to use it. So they do more tests and more procedures, driving hospital bills higher.

Dappen, who practices in Fairfax, Va., told Dr. Val Jones that "after building a successful traditional family medicine practice he felt morally compelled to cease accepting insurance so that he could be free to practice good medicine without having to figure out how to get paid for it. He noticed that at least 50 percent of office visits were not necessary -- and issues could be handled by phone in those cases. Phone interviews, of course, were not reimbursable by insurance."

Dappen also casts a skeptical eye on the pricey annual physical: "The physical exam is a straw man for reimbursement. Doctors require people to appear in person at their offices so that they can bill for the time spent caring for them. But for long-standing adult patients, the physical exam rarely changes medical management of their condition. It simply allows physicians to be reimbursed for their time."

Again, Dappen is spot on.

"Cutting the middleman (health insurance) out of the equation allows me to give patients what they need without wasting their time in unnecessary in-person visits," Dappen explains. "This also frees up my schedule so that I can spend more time with those who really do need an in-person visit."


Digg!

See more stories tagged with: health, doctors, health insurance, private insurance, health care costs

Maggie Mahar is a fellow at the Century Foundation and the author of Money-Driven Medicine: The Real Reason Health Care Costs So Much (Harper/Collins 2006).

Liked this story? Get top stories in your inbox each week from Health and Wellness! Sign up now »


Advertisement

 

Comments Turn comments off sitewide Give us feedback »
Comments closed.
The comments for this story have been closed. Thank you to everyone who participated.
View:
Mike Liveright
Posted by: mll on Jul 18, 2008 1:44 AM   
Current rating: 3    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Re: How Long Will Your Doctor Continue Accepting Private Insurance?

The way I read it, the doctors who are not accepting insurance are charging 4 to 6 times as much as those who are.

"On the right, the fees that insurers typically pay for these services .
..
* Mastectomy: $5,000 / $900 ..."

Thus it seems that they are not only saving money by eliminating the insurer but also want to get paid MUCH more than the insurer is willing to pay. If this is standard, and were adopted, then our medical system would eat up ALL of our GDP now, or of course be wealth rationed.

Based on these numbers private or public insurance doesn't seem unreasonable for us, the patients.

If the Doctors really wanted to accept individual payment, then they could give a 10% or more discount for billing the patent directly, and having their patients do the paper work to get payment from the insurance company. If they increase their charges by 4 times, then they are just pushing the day that we truly socialize American medical care, rather than figure out a way to cover all Americans while allowing the Doctors to retain their independance.

[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]

» RE: Mike Liveright Posted by: blueinkansas
» RE: Mike Liveright Posted by: Jas1317
» Erroneous Conclusion Posted by: Ethical1
» RE: rroneous Conclusion Posted by: Ethical1
» RE: rroneous Conclusion Posted by: Ethical1
» RE: rroneous Conclusion Posted by: Gentle Axeman
A Further Wedge Between US Economic Classes
Posted by: drricklippin on Jul 18, 2008 4:26 AM   
Current rating: 4    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
While I find some of these concepts interesting basically I see it as just one more indicator of the decline of America's middle class.

Many nations who have some level of national health coverage for all its citizens have pay as you go "boutique/concierge" services for the wealthy(Spas,Massage,Anti-aging treatments,Personal Growth therapies, Aesthetic surgical services, etc) These patients are NOT usually sick!

However, there are some aspects of this story that appeal to me.These doctors seem to be doing more prevention and making the physician visit a more enjoyable and user friendly.

Most importantly they are pioneers in saying to the insurance companies-
"I've had enough of your bloated bureaucratic unwieldly administrative practices that do nothing but frustrate physicians and divert huge amounts of money from the entire health care system for excessive administrative costs and obscene executive salaries for Insurance Industry executives.

Dr. Rick Lippin
Southampton, Pa
http://medicalcrises.blogspot.com

[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]

» RE:a further wedge... Posted by: greenman
Administrative costs are the real issue here ...
Posted by: blueinkansas on Jul 18, 2008 6:24 AM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
and the reason that doctors are frustrated with private insurers. The article mentions this issue but does not specifically highlight it. The insurers use "paperwork" to delay claim payments. Many insurers deliberately slow-pay claims by as much as 3, 4, even 6 months. During that time, the doctor is paying an insurance billing person to follow up these claims and respond to the insurer's requests for paperwork they "didn't receive", or resubmit the claims with different diagnostic or treatment codes, etc. etc. etc. S/he is also paying at least one front desk person to screen patients to make sure each one has the appropriate insurance card, that the insurance is current, that any co-payment is collected, and so forth. The doctor could be paying a "physician extender" instead.

This is one of the stronger arguments for a single payer health care system. Let doctors be doctors, not paper pushers.

[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]

Health care system is pitiful
Posted by: Grandma Crabby on Jul 18, 2008 7:42 AM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
It is sad and ironic that although excellent health care exists in the good old USA, virtually no one can afford it.

I do not have health insurance. I have had the exact opposite experience from what this article says.

The doctors I know who treat non-insured people like me charge us a fraction of what they usually charge plus they give discounts if you pay right away.

In my experience, I have concluded that unless I got something MAJOR, having health insurance is not necessary because what I pay directly for treatment is less than what I would pay in insurance premiums and co-pays. Fortunately, I am relatively healthy.

Of course, if I come down with something big, I'm screwed.

I wish more doctors would rebel against the insurance companies. Our system is out of balance because the insurance companies have the control.

Some of you are probably too young to remember when doctors had control of the system and although there were flaws, it was a thousand times better for the patient because most doctors put patients first and insurance companies put the dollar first.

Many insurance companies are no better than licensed thieves.


VideoProductionTips = Learn Internet Video

[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]

Compare the UK, Germany, Japan, Switzerland, Taiwan
Posted by: tomkara on Jul 18, 2008 8:14 AM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
I would suggest anyone who wants to fix what is obviously a broken US healthcare nonsystem (including the author of this article) consider viewing the excellent PBS Frontline documentary "Sick Around the World" which compares the functioning healthcare systems in place in the UK, Germany, Japan, Switzerland, and Taiwan. It is available online for viewing at
http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/pages/frontline/sickaroundtheworld/ or you can order a DVD version from the PBS Shop.
The analysis of these five capitalist nations shows that there are several underlying similarities between all of them: universal access and coverage, total cost controls, and elimination of profit. This does not mean "socialized" medicine, and it does not mean "rationing" of care. The Japanese, for example, go to the doctor much more than those in the US, just to get their blood pressure checked for example. Imagine making an appointment here for that. And they get more MRIs - and the MRIs cost a tenth of what is charged in the US. People in the US seem to forget that for much of our history healthcare was delivered by nonprofit hospitals and nonprofit insurers (like Blue Cross Blue Shield) which unfortunately have largely been privatized and made for-profit.
The solutions are not difficult. The choices are available, much more affordable than the inefficient, costly system we have now, and totally workable. The problem is simply overcoming the ignorance of the US population and the propaganda machine of the insurance companies and drug industry. To that end, I suggest anyone reading this post pass on the links to the PBS website so that anyone they know can start spreading the word: affordable healthcare is totally within our reach, if we will demand it.

[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]

Why this isn't a solution to OUR, all of us, health care system
Posted by: chaoslegs on Jul 18, 2008 9:39 AM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Some doctors charge patients an annual "membership fee" -- rather like the fee you might pay to belong to a country club.

"I wish I had done it a long time ago," says Dr. Edward Portnoy. An internist, Portnoy once had a practice of about 2,800 patients. Now he sees roughly 380 people but takes home "about the same profit" thanks to the $1,800 membership fee that each patient pays yearly.


Like country club fees, I don't pay country club fees, I go to a city park that my taxes fund.

A doctor that takes home the same profit, maybe if he focused on his job of caring for people, not getting rich, that would come off better. Should doctors be compensated for their work, yes! But to describe their practice as profit center, sure doesn't help me think that this is a solution to our health care problem, just a new problem to be wary of.

Give me single payer, and I will let those ultra rich folks spend their money to get the care they are willing to pay for.

[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]

LOL
Posted by: GreyFoxThree on Jul 18, 2008 9:59 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
I work for a large hospital that is self insured so hopefully they will accept for a long time to come! LOL we are in big trouble if they dont.

JT
Ultimate Anonymity

[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]

reply to administrative costs . .
Posted by: maggiemahar on Jul 18, 2008 10:25 AM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
You're aboslutely right-many -private insurers do purposefully delay payment and make it difficult to collect. This is why some doctors greatly prefer dealing with Medicare (which doesn't play games and pays on time.)

But the solution for doctors, I think, is not to refuse insurance (it's hard to make that work, economically, for doctor and patient, even though it can work in some cases).

It would be better, for many doctors, to join a large, multispeciality practice or medical center where the doctor works on salary and admnistrators worry about pushing the paper.

I'm thinking of places like the Mayo Clinic, Kaiser and the Cleveland Clinic.

This seems to be the trend for the future--more and more young doctors don't want to be small businessmen. They want to practice medicine.

I'd be happy to see some form of single payer--but I don't see it happening, not yet.

But I do think we need to tightly regulate private insurers, the way other countries do. (Most European countries do not have single payer, but they do oversee healthcare and set the rules. They don't let the insuers set the rules of the game.

Insures should be required to take everyone regardless of pre-exisitng conditions, and they shouldn't be able to charge the sick exorbitant premiums.

Insurers should not be allowed to sell "Swiss cheese" policies, filled with holes that you don't discover until it's too late. And they should be required to all use the same very, very clear reimbursement forms (making paperwork much easier and game-playing much harder) Finally, they should be required to pay doctors in 30 days.

[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]

I agree--it's not a solution
Posted by: maggiemahar on Jul 18, 2008 10:43 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
I absolutely agree, this is not a solution to the problems with our health care system. And I wasn't presenting it as a solution.

Traditional "concierge medicine" with its high country-club fees is only further fragmenting our broken system. Doctors who choose to care for only a few really wealthy people do seem to have forgotten the purpose of medicine as a healing profession. (Not a business.)

Though I do think that the one doctor who doesn't charge an annual fee, and is able to see patients for an average of $300 a year for regular primary care is doing something interesting. But the economics wouldn't work on a large scale nationwide. And as I point out, those patients still need insurance to cover every thing beyond regular primary care--hospitalizations, surgery, etc. etc.

[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]

for one persons perspective on someone who pays a yearly fee
Posted by: kellya on Jul 18, 2008 11:17 AM   
Current rating: 1    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
I am by no means rich or elite, in fact just the opposite. I am a girl living with chronic illness who had to move home with my parents because my medical expenses were far too high (and not helping) and my ability to generate income was far too low.

Fortunately my parents are middle income and have helped me in the process.

I moved home 3 years ago, and found my current doctor 1.5 years ago. In January of this year she started charging an annual fee- $300/year.

At first I was extremely worried how I could pay for this even with my parents' assistance which has also been pushed to the brink with my medical costs the past few years.

But the doctor was a great fit . I have made more sustained progress in the past 1.5 years than I have in the prior 5 years living with chronic illness.

We found a way to make it work and I basically pay out another $150/month in other medical services that aren't reimbursable, including a separate PT who does not accept insurance either but charges me only little more than my copay would be (which I need PT FAR more than the usual insurance allotments).

The money I pay directly to physicians and medical care providers is a lot but since I don't have to pay rent and the costs are reduced I can do it.

Not a practicality for most with chronic illness I know-- it's really tight but we make it work because this approach to my health actually makes me feel better instead of over-medicated and still feeling like crap. My ability to do even more, including working more, looks like it is on the horizon.

My issue is that because I have chronic illness and because I cannot hold down a job with enough hours to qualify for a group insurance I pay around $650/month for crappy insurance coverage with an additional $2000/year deductible. I pay just under $10,000 dollars before any insurance assistance kicks in.

I would prefer a HSA with flexible spending but I do not qualify and any cheaper insurance would immediately deny me coverage because only a conversion program post COBRA had to cover me. Some states have high risk pools for insurance to help keep rates lower, mine does not.

this insurance barely covers anything that helps me. I would be paying potentially under $5000 a year without insurance with direct charge vs. about $15,000-20,000 a year with insurance.

We have considered dropping insurance entirely but since I am a higher risk for more complication this seems completely unwise. If only a truly catastrophic coverage only plan was available as a choice for those of us with chronic illness who have found other ways to access services that often insurance refuses to cover, or at least at the level we need. I know many who go entirely without and have little choice in the matter.

I am NOT advocating that this is for everyone.

I am relaying a personal story to illustrate that this option with doctors who no longer accept insurance and charge directly could be an asset for people are not the elite.

I do think that if the majority of plans, including publicly funded plans like medicare and medicaid or a potential universal approach, were able to give consumers this as an option (cutting out the forms and appeals roulette game) that some of us could continue to find ways to access very good quality care at a fraction of the cost.

I also realize that some, especially the most sick and vulnerable do not have someone like my parents who can serve as a buffer and therefore cannot make the choices I have made. I am merely relaying that with the direct buy-in to m care it a) actually helps greatly as my quality and access to care increases AND b) it could be significantly cheaper long term.

[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]

Do No Harm?
Posted by: Cathyc on Jul 18, 2008 12:12 PM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
"On the right, the fees that insurers typically pay for these services; on the left, the fees that Jersey doctors who don't take insurance charge:


Mastectomy: $5,000 / $900

Ruptured abdominal aneurysm: $8,000 / $1,800


Routine screening mammogram: $350 / $100


Initial neurological consultation: $400 / $100
"


American doctors (and lawyers) don't ya just love 'em!

What is it about American culture that people are trained (from birth) to be parasitic, i.e., to feed off their fellow humans? And all the while, America holds itself up as the Bastion of Democracy? LOL!

[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]

» RE: Do No Harm? Posted by: dr_dredd
Why pay Private Health Insurance?
Posted by: Cathyc on Jul 18, 2008 12:29 PM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
When you are already paying TAXES for social services i.e., services that provide for the needs of the general public aka, society? Isn't that what DEMOCRACY is all about?

Its a weird form of democracy you have in America...

[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]

Missing a big part of the MD/patient relationship
Posted by: farmer's daughter on Jul 18, 2008 2:22 PM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
This whole idea of "essential" care and fees for joining a practice omits, in concept, a critical piece of MD/patient loyalty. One piece, of course, is access to quality care. The other, though, is education, perhaps the most important tool in the health toolbox. If a physician minimizes the time or the number of patient visits, replacing them with phone calls, emails, etc., s/he misses the opportunity to help the patient learn what his/her health amounts to. It will be different for each patient, and will change with age and other circumstances. It is my belief that a physician remains one's best partner in knowing what behaviors will result in good health, longevity and the ability to live a productive life.

Access to this "educational care" is likely the most important factor in the "outcomes" measurement of our health status.

[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]

The Future is Here already
Posted by: Casey Burns on Jul 18, 2008 7:58 PM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
If you are a Lyme Disease sufferer like I am, good chance like me that you are already paying out of pocket for the care that might have a chance of making you well. I am.

My superb Lyme doctor would rather spend her time making people like me well - than battling insurance companies who tell her and others that a 6 week course of Doxycycline is all that is needed. Meanwhile the Lyme unaware doctors are fully covered. Ironic! Read what we are all going through at flash.lymenet.org

In my own case I was poked and prodded, injected with radioactive dyes and xrayed to death and Lyme wasn't even on their radars - all of them thinking it was an East Coast thing. Just like how Reagan though AIDS and HIV was a San Francisco problem and we all know how well this turned out! Was expensive and Regence paid for about 80% of this - except for the Cat Scan angiogram which they still considder experimental. Experimantal yes - but unlike the traditional method this has a zero percent stroke risk vs. 2% with the tube up the leg and it is nonivasive, except for the Iodine dye.

Very superb movie on this subject (Lyme and the failure of our health care system) just out: See www.openeyepictures.com/underourskin/

This is a silent epidemic of huge proportions. recent research by a Dr. MacDonald has found a compelling link between Alzheimers and Lyme - in 17 pour of 20 Alzheimer patient's brain tissue he found the Borrelia bacteria. next is to test living Alzheimer patients to see how many have Lyme and start treating this. Lyme is suspected as the primary causative factor for Cronic Fatigue Syndrome, Fibromyalgia and the cluster of MS here in the NW. yet most Lyme patients get told that it is all in their heads and to go seek a psychiatrist. The Miracles of Modern Medicine!!!!

Casey Burns
Washington State

[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]

This Could Be a Good Thing
Posted by: Liberty G on Jul 19, 2008 9:43 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Yes, there are some doctors who only care about making profit from rich patients.

However, there are also, hopefully, a lot more that got into medicine to help people. If they can find ways to practice better medicine and cut their costs by not paying insurance companies and staff to wrestle with forms, we could benefit.

Actually, I'm not sure that health insurance, which seemed like a good idea years ago, is really the best system at all, single payer or not. Why not just the vouchers suggested by some - based on income - and allowing people to use them for a really broad range of treatment? Maybe, to control possible abuse, give less to the young and healthy, more to the older and sicker.

One bright spot in the doctors-detaching-from -insurance scenario is, as the article notes, a reduction in the unnecessary treatment and prescriptions. That, combined with making it possible for people to utilize some less expensive and less dangererous natural alternatives like homeopathy, naturopathy, acupuncture, etc., could result in an amazingly affordable and more productive health care situation in this country.

[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]

» VOUCHERS ??? Posted by: gellero1
Doctors should be subjected to public expectations of professional writers
Posted by: DaBear on Jul 19, 2008 12:49 PM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
They should do it because they love it and not get paid and not whine about not getting paid.

Period.

[the day a doc can live under that batshit notion is the day writers will get paid enough to live on finally]

[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]

The 20% limit
Posted by: macdon1 on Jul 19, 2008 7:37 PM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Here in Sacramento CA where I live all the medical practices have a strict quota limit on "M&M" patients. Those are sick and disabled patients like my daughter who have medicare with medicaid as a secondary insurance. Although a list of doctors who accept this insurance is provided NONE OF THEM are accepting new patients. We fought for two years to get disability for her so she could have medical care and NO ONE will see her because every primary care doctor in this town has reached their quota. After searching for almost a year we have pretty much given up.

[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]

MY. MY. MY. AREN'T WE BOURGEOUS? PARK AVENUE DOCTORS HAVE BEEN
Posted by: Raymond Emerson on Jul 20, 2008 9:45 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
doing this for as long as they have existed. They don't take insurance. It is cash only. The wealthy never have needed insurance. "Just send the bill to my secretary." To even mention insurance in their office is 'de classe. Remember these are the guys that own the insurance companies. You don't suppose that they are dumb enough to use their own product?

If you do mention insurance you will be told that you will receive a receipt that can be sent to your insurance company. If you tell them that your insurance will not pay unless the doctor bills, you get a blank stare.

[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]

The jerks who work for insurance companies
Posted by: ReallyBearish on Jul 20, 2008 10:17 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Know just enough medicine to be dangerous. I was rejected for medical insurance 12 years ago because I had taken a pulmonary function test, which to the insurance lacky meant I had heart disease.

As it turned out, I had asked the doctor to take the test since I had asthma, and I had to do a three mile run in a half hour as a requirement for a karate black belt test. My brother, who's a pulmonary specialist, said this is typical.

[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]

Bryce
Posted by: bbandz on Jul 21, 2008 2:28 PM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Well, we're ALL fed up with private insurance companies. And we all know why: They are in that business to make as much money as they can for themselves. They are NOT in business to help or treat patients.

There is an easy and surefire way to solve the health care problem: enact a NATIONAL, UNIVERSAL, SINGLE-PAYER, COMPREHENSIVE, NOT-FOR-PROFIT healthcare system. A "medicare-for-all" program.

This has worked for every other industrialized country. It would work for us. What are you afraid of? A minority of morons screaming "socialized medicine?" A single-payer system is NOT socialized medicine and calling it that does not make it so. Wake up people!!!

[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]

» RE: Bryce Posted by: ProAddictionsFuturist
Bryce
Posted by: bbandz on Jul 21, 2008 2:48 PM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Listen to the people, Maggie! The tide is turning! A majority of people ARE ready for single-payer! We're no longer scared off by the fear-mongering tactics of the medical insurance companies, pharmaceutical companies, and right-wing ideologues who scream "socialized medicine." We need to follow the lead of Canada, France, Norway,etc., etc. Let's do what is RIGHT in solving this problem, not what we THINK is political feasibility.

[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]

UNTIL WE BUY BACK OUR OWN GOVERNMENT IT "AIN'T GONNA"
Posted by: Raymond Emerson on Jul 21, 2008 5:11 PM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
happen. That means absolute, total public financing of all candidates and campaigns. It may even take some time for them to break their habits. It may take a sizeable number of prosecutions.

"THE AMERICAN PEOPLE WOULD TRADE TEN INVESTIGATIONS FOR ONE CONVICTION." Will Rogers, Daily Telegrams, 12-28-34

[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]

How much does it cost anyway?
Posted by: jmoore on Jul 21, 2008 8:01 PM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Has anyone else besides me noticed that doctors simply will not personally tell you how much their services cost? They tell me to discuss it with their practice's billing department (mysteriously never at their desks when my appointment times are) or tell me not to worry because they're not really charging me, they are charging my insurance company. Frankly, I suspect these doctors don't actually know how much their services are priced at or why they are priced that way.

Um, no, that doesn't help me when they are recommending tests and asking for my consent. I need to know how much they cost vs how invasive they are and what they are expected to reveal in order to decide whether or not to consent. Same for procedures--price is definitely a factor if the situation is not life-threatening. I had a doctor who was all hot to do a hospital outpatient procedure on me: luckily the machine he was going to use broke on the day of surgery, because by the time the machine was repaired and surgery rescheduled, the problem resolved itself. I asked him how much the procedure would have cost me and he hemmed, hawed, and finally said he didn't know because he had no idea what the hospital costs were or what his office manager would decide his own services would cost until the procedure was over and the time he spent was totted up.

Why do we as patients put up with this? Would you go into a store and select purchases without price tags, and pay whatever the cashier decided to ring up that day? I would like to start a movement demanding to see some kind of standard listing of services and what they bill your insurance company for the services vs what you would have to pay if you decided to pay them out of pocket.

[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]

Show the true "greed" of medical system!
Posted by: Scott on Jul 28, 2008 5:27 PM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
ALL this proves is that they, the doctors and hospitals are charging far MORE then they should for their procedures. Sure some items may be real expensive because they involve body invasions but lots of procedures are OVER BILLED and OVER CHARGED NOW in relationship to their true costs, and I would suspect that the insurance companies know that and THEN THEY use that little "hidden secret" between them and the medical folks to really beat the doctors and medical centers down to what is either a true and fair costs for their services or even lower, knowing that for some medical items they will later pay the true costs! IT is like a box of corn flakes, WE ALL know that the true cost is not $4.60 a box but WE have NO WAY of beating the cereal company down to what the true costs of a box of flakes really is, something like a $1.50...... Same as the movie theaters and pop corn, priced way too high, but we pay it! YOU would not pay movie theater popcorn price if YOU could band together and force THEM to take the true costs. THIS article just exposes the "greed" that in the American Medical Community and our medical practices!!!!!!!

[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]

Health Care in America screwed up since 1945 ! OMG !
Posted by: sim on Aug 7, 2008 4:00 PM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Health Care in America screwed up since 1945 ! OMG !

my partner has diabetes II can you believe we paid premium over $300 per month and now we have a bill for diabetic laboratory, it charges us $1,050.00 ? We called the hospital and the insurance co., they twist their responsibility so that they can avoid to pay; we even find out the same test, the laboratory charge only $50 and the hospital charge $100 ! OMG what kind of law is this unless we call it "forest" law ! they obviously make money on your and my back !

this is not only nuisance for patients, doctors, but the whole society, even the insurance people and the greedy hospital facities themselves, they are also victims of their own crime !

People, we must fight to the end to bring quality universal health care, the justice, to everybody in America ! this is too much shameful and immoral system for such an advanced country, America !

[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]