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Health & Wellness

Why Some Hospitals Are Allowing Unnecessary Suffering

By Maggie Mahar -- BAD, DON'T USE, Health Beat. Posted May 17, 2008.


Easing pain is arguably as important as saving a life. But far too many U.S. physicians focus only on the latter.
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"His heart filled virtually his whole chest," recalls Dr. Diane Meier describing her very first patient, an 89-year-old suffering from end-stage congestive heart failure. 

It was the first day of Meier's internship at a hospital in Portland Oregon, and after being assigned 23 patients, she was suddenly told that one of her patients, who had been in the Intensive Care Unit for months, was "coding." She raced to the ICU where the resident told her to put in a "central line."

"I didn't know how," Meier admits.  "I felt overwhelmed and inadequate. Then, the patient died ...

"Everyone just walked out of the room," she remembers.  I stood there. I still sometimes flash back on that scene: the patient, naked, lying on the table, strips of paper everywhere, the room empty. This was my patient. I felt I was supposed to do something -- but I didn't know what."

Meier left the room and, in the hallway, saw the patient's wife. "I walked right past her," she recalls, nearly shuddering at her own cowardice.  I didn't know what to say. I didn't even say 'I'm sorry.' As a physician, I didn't think that I was supposed to do that. "

I heard Dr. Diane Meier tell this story at a conference for medical students at  Manhattan's Mt. Sinai School of Medicine last week. When she finished, she asked her audience, "What is the hidden curriculum here? What does this story tell you?'

"Once the patient dies, he no longer matters," said one student.

"If we can't save the patient, the patient doesn't matter," added another.

Meier drew a third lesson: "Before he died, this patient had spent two months in the ICU. We had done everything possible to prolong the dying process."  As a doctor, you have to step back and say, 'What is this experience telling me, and is this right?'"

As a palliative care specialist, Meier spends much of her time with dying patients.  For many, "palliative care" offers a middle road between pulling out all the stops and simply giving up hope. Like traditional "hospice" care, palliative care focuses on "comfort" rather than "cure," emphasizing pain management and easing the emotional trauma of facing death, both for the patient and for the family.  But palliative care also includes procedures aimed at treating the symptoms of the disease.

In the past, Meier explains, physicians have seen caring for a terminally ill patient as an "either/or" situation: "Either we are doing everything possible to try to prolong your life -- or when there is 'nothing more that we can do,' only then do we make the switch to providing comfort measures. This dichotomous notion -- that you can do one thing alone and then the other thing alone later -- has nothing to do with the reality of what patients and their families go through."

In her talk last week, Meier explained that her first patient was one of three who marked turning points on her life as a physician. Originally, she trained to become a geriatrician, a doctor who cares for people over 65.  "I think because I was very close to my grandfather," she explained, "and because I'm a 'lumper' not a 'splitter'," she added, referring to the distinction between doctors who prefer to treat the whole patient, head to toe, and those who prefer to specialize in a body part: the foot, for example, or the eye.'

Her interest in treating the elderly brought her to Mt. Sinai, which, at the time, had the only Department of Geriatrics in the country.  But as her career unfolded, she found herself "become more and more alienated from medicine. Here, in the hospital, everyone was running around, ostensibly trying to help the patient, but actually often hurting the patient. I thought about quitting. I had a fantasy of opening a bakery/book shop where I could read and eat brownies ..." she told the med students.

"Then I met a patient I will call Mr. Santanaya."

Meier first encountered Santanaya when she was walking down a hospital hallway and  heard a man screaming and moaning in pain. She looked into his room and there he was, pinioned to his bed, hand and foot, in "four-point restraint."

"I went to the nurse and asked, 'Why is this man in a four-point restraint?"  The nurse called for the intern.

"I'll never forget this kid's face," Meier recalled "To me, he looked about twelve years old. And terrified.

Meier asked the question again,  and the intern explained: "He has lung cancer that spread to his brain and he's delirious. We put a feeding tube up into his nose and down to his stomach, and he pulled it out. So we tied his hands. Then he pulled it out with his knees and feet -- so we tied his knees and feet."


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good article, but...
Posted by: undrgrndgirl on May 17, 2008 12:19 PM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
the author did not adequately explain that the failure of mainstream medicine to adequately treat pain is tied up in the failed "war on drugs", a fear of "addiction" and the fact that pain is subjective. there is no quantitative laboratory or radiological test that can verify pain or the amount of pain one might be in. pain thresholds vary widely individual to individual...when a person is in pain s/he may not have any outward signs (that is the patient looks "fine") and many chronic pain patients learn to compensate or just "stuff" the pain as they quickly become labeled "drug seekers"...this mind set must change.

[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]

» RE: good article, but... Posted by: VZEQICVA
» RE: good article, but... Posted by: maggiem
» RE: good article, but... Posted by: lepidopteryx
» RE: good article, but... Posted by: phatkhat
politics and medicine
Posted by: e rice on May 17, 2008 3:02 PM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
the bush administration has targeted pain clinics in this country because they proscribe opiates. the most attention i had from the doctor at the pain clinic i go to was when i said i understood his problems with non-medical personnel determining 'how much' pain killers to give a patient. i got several minutes of his problems. as for my pain, well, if i need more vicodin i'll just have to see the neurosurgeon, he can't give me more.

i have a severe back injury. i can't drive, i can't stand for more than 10 minutes. getting to the neurosurgeon will cost me money for transportation. my insurance has doubled in 8 years, my co-pay for medical visits has doubled. getting to the neurosurgeon is nearly impossible. and there's no guarantee that he will be any more helpful, because he has to deal with the investigations into his prescription of pain killers, too.

i also have a chronic disease which causes me severe pain. my primary care will not diagnose the disease because she's a 'fixer' and chronic can't be fixed. i can't apply for unemployment insurance because i don't have a diagnosis. going from doctor to doctor to find one who will diagnose is, again, financially nearly impossible because of the cost of transportation and insurance. not to mention that i cannot predict when i can get out of the house to see a doctor.

i spend 75% of my time non-functional, more than 50% in pain, even with vicodin. do any of my doctors care? only about my becoming an addict, although i have not become an addict in three years of using vidocin. have any of my doctors offered to remit any of their costs? help with transportation? help of any kind?

medicine in america is no longer about patient care, if it ever was. it's about money and curing the disease at any cost to the patient because funding is based on successful outcomes. it's about placating political witchhunters. it's about dealing with insurance companies--not about fighting for patients.

the puritanic attitude toward bearing your suffering also comes into play. suffering is good for you, so suck it up. suffering is boring for other people, so suck it up. only weak people want drugs, so toughen up.

how long will it take for people in america to start demanding what people in canada, the european union, australia, etc. etc., take for granted--medical care based on humane concern for the patient?

this situation has been going on for years. when will people in this country say 'enough?'

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» RE: politics and medicine Posted by: VZEQICVA
» RE: politics and medicine Posted by: sicntired
» RE: politics and medicine Posted by: sicntired
AVOIDING TOO MANY QUESTIONS
Posted by: VZEQICVA on May 17, 2008 3:04 PM   
Current rating: 4    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Sick people need to be treated for their illness not as potential drug addicts. The terminally ill should not be deprived of proper care and a dignified end to their lives because some physician is more concerned about the law than medicine. Any physician making decisions for the benfit of anyone other than the patients has to look at why he/she wanted the job in the first place. They knew it wouldn't be easy. Thanks, ANNA

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» You make a good point... Posted by: mjabele
» To conclude... Posted by: mjabele
Some comments from a different perspective...
Posted by: mjabele on May 18, 2008 6:06 PM   
Current rating: 4    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
I work at an inner city clinic, and, along with my colleagues, do as much as possible to treat legitimate pain complaints appropriately when I see them. I fully agree that "sick people need to be treated for their illness, not as potential drug addicts". Unlike the physicians mentioned in the article, my colleagues and I are well aware of the half-lives of the medications we prescribe, and I think we do the utmost possible to treat "legitimate" patients appropriately.

However, to imply that narcotic abuse doesn't exist in these settings, or that it doesn't typically become deeply entwined in the outpatient practices of physicians who endeavor to treat legitimate pain properly, is naive. Indeed, it's precisely this issue that makes the prescribing of "legitimate" medication (at least on an outpatient basis) so difficult, unpleasant, and, to some extent, professionally risky.

Inevitably, mixed in with the patients seeking "legitimate" pain meds, there will also be other patients seeking the same meds for other reasons - to get "high", to exchange for other substances, or simply to sell for income to pay the rent. I know this to be the case for the simple reason that, in our clinic (like many others), we ask our chronic pain patients to sign treatment contracts specifically permitting us to do random drug testing, and the results are often quite revealing.

Finding cocaine but no opiates in the urine of someone receiving a prescription for long-acting narcotic medication certainly ought to raise questions in the prescribing physician's mind, to say the least.

This sort of thing happens to us routinely a few times a month, at which point we typically discontinue the prescribed opiate and offer addiction treatment to those patients who appear to have a substance abuse problem (we actually treat opiate addiction ourselves in many cases, with buprenorphine). Most of those whose urines are repeatedly entirely negative - i.e., whom we therefore presume to be selling their medications for money rather than another drug - have their prescriptions discontinued summarily.

Informing patients of these decisions is, despite their signatures on pre-existing Pain Contracts, rarely a pleasant scenario. Argumentation and threatening behavior are not uncommon, and security guards have to be called in not infrequently. Other patients' appointments are typically disrupted. Providers are routinely insulted, sometimes physically threatened by the involved patients, and complaints sometimes filed with the Medical Board.

I'd add that the only complaint I've ever had filed against me was by a patient who openly confessed that he was abusing prescribed narcotic when I confronted him with the incontrovertible evidence, but who was so pissed by my subsequent refusal to prescribe more that he contacted the state medical board. His complaint was summarily dismissed, but perhaps some posters, not being physicians, don't quite understand how it feels to be figuratively assaulted by a patient in this manner.

Frankly speaking, I've been willing in the past to take quite a few professional risks on my own behalf, but the recent addition of a four-year-old and a two-year-old to my circle of dependents is starting to make me a bit more cautious as to how much potential liability I'm prepared to assume.

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To conclude...
Posted by: mjabele on May 18, 2008 6:09 PM   
Current rating: 4    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
...it's trite and narrow-minded to say of providers, as at least one other poster has, that "they knew it wouldn't be easy". To bring up another example, how should one feel if - as was the case for one of the female providers at our clinic who denied a self-admitted addict his prescription - one were threatened with bodily harm in the clinic parking lot one evening, and felt compelled to go out to one's car with a police escort for several months thereafter?

No doubt decriminalizing drug use, which I and most of my colleagues support, would likely alleviate some of these problems, but the fact remains that we're not at that stage of the game right now, and providers who try to do the "right thing" and prescribe appropriately for patients who have legitimate pain complaints DO have to deal with many issues of addiction and inappropriate use, and encounter a great deal of troubling and at times threatening behavior from "illegitimate" (for lack of a better term) patients who view the provider as a kind of surrogate drug dealer. To believe or pretend otherwise simply defies the reality of the situation.

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» RE: To conclude... Posted by: carcinoid112
» RE: To conclude... WORD! Posted by: DaBear
Missing the elephant in the room...
Posted by: ekyprogressive on May 19, 2008 4:00 AM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
While I can agree with much of what the author has to say, I do think a discussion of health care staffing in relation to pain management and dealing with the confused during their final days is appropriate. The author's statement that...

"The relief of suffering is a fundamental part of medicine," Meier concluded. "In this country there is a tremendous amount of stigma associated with opiates. When you are caring for patients, and you leave an order for the nurse to administer the pain-killers, remember, there's a real chance that she'll think, 'This is dangerous. I don't want something bad to happen on my shift. Okay, I'll give it to you -- but I won't give you enough.'

"This is why pain is so poorly managed in this country."
...

Is overlooking one major flaw in our health care system, poor staffing and its consequences on assessment of pain, staff's time to attempt interventions which are not restraints, and medication errors. When nursing staff are forced to perform overtime, or are made to work with "skeleton crews" which often happens, patient care suffers. Insinuating that pain management is poorly delivered due to nurse discomfort with giving narcotics or that restraints are used because staff didn't know any alternative is grossly oversimplifying (and I would say somewhat scapegoating).

As an ICU nurse having worked in various facilities in multiple states, the problem of staffing is quite universal. Facilities first cut patient care employees or their benefits when the facility needs to save money, either by a decrease in licensed or certified staff (RNs, LPNs, CNAs etc) or by forcing the health care team to do non-care related tasks (such as secretarial work, housekeeping roles, or hospital administration's favorite solution: more paperwork.

People need to look at all the problems with our health care delivery system. You can't lay blame until you know the whole situation.

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you sound completely totalitarian
Posted by: deborama on May 19, 2008 5:18 AM   
Current rating: 3    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
wow, what a mindset for a physician! all about checking the patients' urine to make sure they're being "good" little COMPLIANT (the doctors' favorite word) boys and girls. Your attitude is the reason the medical profession is in disgrace. You are more concerned with keeping your license and limiting your liability than you are in providing healing. Since when did testing people's urine for compliance to totalitarian notions of which drugs are "good" and "bad" pass for a learned profession? Why don't you just go work for the government since you obviously already do. Sheesh.

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» Thank you, Phatkat Posted by: mimosa1036
» Horse hockey! Posted by: photon's feather
I am glad
Posted by: andrushka on May 19, 2008 5:24 AM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
that the very bad traffic accident I had 13 years ago was in Europe where I live. I am handicapped with lots of pain induced by a poor walking. Thank God, we do have pain clinics where they are not shy to prescribe morphine if need be. I take those pills (long-action) twice a day, and I am definitely not a drug-addict. Also a cousin of mine a surgeon, told me once that the very first task of a doctor is to try to relieve pain FIRST, and then treat the medical problem.

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» RE: I am glad Posted by: sicntired
Hospice
Posted by: BST on May 19, 2008 5:43 AM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
I am very grateful to be a volunteer for hospice and have witnessed the kind, focused and generous attention given by professional staff to people in pain, physical or emotional. Hospice, which offers palliative care, has a legacy of knowing that attention must be paid to pain. The medical field should include a study of hospice in its student course work, if it has not already done so.

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» RE: Hospice Posted by: countingdaisies
Wholistic Doctor/Psychotherapist
Posted by: DJBMD on May 19, 2008 6:10 AM   
Current rating: 1    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
This article and many of the comments on it ignore or overlook potent self-healing methods for pain management. These empower people to deal competently with their own pains. They also have the benefit that they do not impair consciousness or carry risks of side effects or of serious effects (e.g. fatality, which can hardly be called a side effect).

See for instance www.wholistichealingresearch.com/wheearticles.html

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Palliative care must be treated as an integral part of the mainstream medical care system.
Posted by: akai ringo on May 19, 2008 6:48 AM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Thank you, Maggie Mahar, for an excellent article, and thank you, Alternet, for printing it. Just over 10 years ago, I felt the time was ripe to give a boost to the burgeoning, but still relatively small hospice care movement in Japan, so I arranged to invite over Dame Cicely Saunders, the founder of the modern hospice movement, to be the keynote speaker in a UK=Japan symposium, and followed this up, over a period of three years, with two further symposia featuring leaders in the palliative care movement from the UK and Japan. The primary focus, over the three-year programme, was on identifying and strengthening key places and key people who could act as multipliers, and I hope that to some extent at least, the continuing growth of the palliative care movement since that time owes something to the seeds I tried to sow. Of course, Japan, like the UK, has a national health care system, and palliative care is an integral part of this system.
This has not always been the case. There was a time when the situation in Japan was similar in some ways to the current situation in the US. I have on my bookshelf the book, "Dying in a Japanese Hospital", written by Dr Fumio Yamazaki in 1990 and presented to me by the author, and in it, he describes some of the harrowing scenes at that time of patients who were subjected to painful interventions with the aim of securing perhaps a few more hours of "life". Thankfully, as I have said above, though palliative care, pain relief, and the hospice care movement are still short of funds, the situation is much better than it was. I felt deeply saddened when I read Maggie Mahar's words about the situation in the US. As I have said before in these columns, I have never been to the US and it is in the highest degree unlikely that I ever will, but it sounds to me at least from what Maggie says that firstly, a sea change in attitudes is needed, of course in medical education, but also in general education and among the people at large, and from other things I have read, a much wider acceptance of the need to treat pain, suffering, terminal care and death as subjects for informed discussion and debate.
Of course, it goes without saying, that radical reform of the health care system is also needed, but to get into that debate would take much more time than I have. I wish people like Maggie every success in their ongoing efforts.

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Adequate Pain Relief is Only PART of Relieving Suffering
Posted by: drricklippin on May 19, 2008 7:02 AM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Medicine's obsession with "curing" and "battling death" plus fear of DEA gestapo tactics and lawsuits has led to the failure of US Organized Medicine to address the entire issue of suffering.

One day we will grow up as nation but right now the failures of Organized Medicine -and there are many- demonstrates how very young and immmature we really are.

Dr. Rick Lippin
Southampton,PA
http://medicalcrises.blogspot.com

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speaking as a patient,
Posted by: Grandma Crabby on May 19, 2008 8:20 AM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
This is the kind of thing that makes me want to not even go to a hospital if I am sick and dying.

They do not know how to let people die. They stick a tube up your nose and think they are doing you a favor.

If I am close to death, I do not CARE if I become an addict. If I am close to death, I'd just as soon get it over with and not have a tube up my nose that will prolong my life another few miserable months.

Health care in America is SO BAD it's scary.


VideoProductionTips = Learn Internet Video

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Junkies more important than legitimate patients
Posted by: lotlizzard on May 19, 2008 8:45 AM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
In the past two years I have witnessed family members deal with chronic pain such as cancer, severe back injuries, etc. The experience has left me nothing short of outraged. In the end, I just feel hopeless as loved ones are treated like common junkies.

I live in a region of the country with very high rates of prescription drug abuse. Robberies are a daily event in my very small hometown as people steal whatever they can to maintain their habit. One of the more treasured things for these vagabonds is stealing prescription drugs. In fact, my grandparents were robbed by a home healthcare worker who was addicted to oxycontin. So we're scared to death to even have prescribed painkillers in the house.

I've also watched my partner deal with chronic back pain from a work related injury. Now, to give you an idea of how un-addicted this woman is to prescription pain killers, she goes through a 30 day script of hyrocodone maybe every three or four months even though she has pain that sometimes makes her unable to walk. She still works a 50 hour a week job as well, mind you, even though some have suggested disability. So on those rare occasions where she simply can't take it anymore and goes to the doctor, she is either a)treated like a junkie b)or told 'there's nothing more we can do. Get used to the pain'. In fact, they ignore other physical symptoms and assume she's just there to get more drugs. So things like-oh- kidney infections go untreated. The contempt and suspicion that she has to go through from health care providers enrages me.

So healthcare providers are scared to death to prescribe morphine or codeine based drugs because of the liability. And patients are scared to have it in their homes. That's all well and good for the DEA and the War on Drugs. But what about those with genuine pain?

An earlier poster pointed the very dangerous aspect of being a provider and dealing with prescibing meds for chronic pain. They deal with physical intimidation, threats, etc. That's horrendous. The problem, though, is that the system essentially spends most of their time worrying about junkies and potential junkies rather than focusing on ameliorating the pain of their legit patients. Essentially, law abiding, compliant patients are being punished for the misdeeds of drug abusers. As such, junkies are more important than patients in our current system.

Indeed, I think this very much stems from the fruitless efforts of the so called War on Drugs. But there also seems to be a failure on the part of providers to advocate for their patients when it comes to the issue of drugs and pallitative care. Maybe doctors should make patients as their primary concern and refuse to be adjunct DEA agents. And maybe, just maybe, John Walters and Co can actually think about the issue of DEMAND and TREATMENT rather than plugging holes in the dam of supply.

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A few points
Posted by: willymack on May 19, 2008 9:27 AM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
One. Our "health care" system SUCKS, and is a national disgrace. Two. It needs a complete overhall and a turnaround from the profit motive which has poisoned every aspect of the operation. Three. The greedy, immoral, psychotic bastards responsible for this mess must be met head-on, and told in no uncertain terms that their days of theft, bribery, and intimidation are OVER, and if they're to survive at all it'll have to be as honest and above-board business people. Four. Finding enough uncorrupted and courageous people to affect such change will be difficult, to say the least.

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Not just about pain relief
Posted by: CJC on May 19, 2008 9:49 AM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Dr. Diane Meier was talking about a broader problem that just pain relief. She was talking about "suffering" and about how our whole health care system is dysfunctional in "caring" about people.

First, there's no excuse for medical schools continuing to fail their students and the patients they will ultimately treat by not talking about death. Interns and residents are necessarily young and callow and overwhelmed because they still lack experience. But education, ideally, should be about giving young professionals some of the wisdom and thoughtfulness of their elders. A general problem with medical education, as I perceive it, is that there is an overconcentration on acquisition of factual information without enough focus on helping young physicians learn how to think and reason. How was it possible, that the young Dr. Meier had not been given even rudimentary instruction about to behave when a patient dies? How was it that the young intern who restrained a patient for days on end had no one to spend 5 minutes with him to question the necessity of force feeding a patient with terminal cancer?

On top of the serious failures of medical education we have a totally dysfunctional and inhumane system of health care financing where only those with unlimited personal financial resources - I'm think hedge fund managers and the like - can be assured that will get all the best care without being relegated to the inferior treatment that Medicaid patients may get or be faced with huge bills that "co-payments" will come to in the case of serious and long-term illnesses. In my husband's extended family, an American couple with a 10 and 13 year old child, living in Spain one of the children has recently been diagnosed with acute lymphocytic leukemia. He was very sick when he was diagnosed, survived a kidney crisis and was started on chemotherapy and long-term prospects are good. But he has to undergo a couple of years of periodic chemotherapy. The family has been communicating with friends and family by a website designed to make such a thing possible. Their most recent posting thanked those who have offered to help pay for the treatment writing, "Some of you have asked if you can contribute financially towards K´s treatment. The good news is that the Spanish Social Security is picking up the entire cost of his treatment. We are incredibly grateful for this and thank God everyday. He has great care."
Such relief from the suffering of financial anxiety is available here only to the very rich.
Cutting edge science and heroic treatments are not all that count!

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Pleaides
Posted by: Pleaides on May 19, 2008 10:06 AM   
Current rating: 2    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
This article is goofy. Physicians most certainly do care about pain and suffering. How about the families that want everything done to 92 year old Grandma with CHF, diabetes, CAD, you name it. Do something to help her is what we hear all the time. Many times the Physicians I work with (ER & ICU) are willing to medicate the patient so he/she will not suffer, in the dying process, but family members flip out at the very suggestion that this is the END OF LIFE!
And wait just a d$%^@@ minute on the "denial of medications to the suffering medicaid patient". 99% of the time that a patient seeks drugs in the ER it IS a medicaid patient with an addiction to narcotics. Plain, simple truth. Health care is free to the Medicaiders - Bush said so, "just go to the ER". This article did not make sense to a professional nurse.

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» RE: Pleaides Posted by: glb33
» RE: Pleaides Posted by: Pleaides
» RE: Pleaides Posted by: glb33
» RE: Pleaides Posted by: alphacatone
» RE: Pleaides Posted by: Pleaides
» RE: Pleaides Posted by: DaBear
» Explain to me... Posted by: mjabele
"we know better than... anybody else"
Posted by: BlueBerry PickN on May 19, 2008 11:53 AM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
its an epidemic.

People deciding that THEY know better than anyone else how someone else should exist within their own body.

"TRUST NO ONE" is the mantra of the Republican Exclusionist Propaganda... simply OBEY AUTHORITY.

AUTHORITY ? g*d help you if they're WRONG or haven't your best interest at heart...

"shock & awe-ful thing"s: "Taking Liberties" & forced drugging of Non-Americans on US flights

"When What the Patient Wants Isn't Best": when I do get to choose for myself?

considering "Stung by criticism, Mountie Commissioner Elliott zapped with Taser"

how dare you INQUIRE!: "Newfoundland government questions inquiry counsel's right to cross-examine witnesses" in breast cancer BigPharma probe

You know what my Father used to say to me?

"Never call a man 'lucky' until you know how he died"

Think about it...

The Thieves of Virtue: legislating morality undermines representative government.

really, VICE is contextual:
* gender
* ethnicity
* age
* race...

Nobody is immune to *vice* as VICE is about how ONE PERSON privately & personally determines *how to enjoy their own body*...


How *dare* someone declare they **know better than a sufferer** how much pain can be endured?

==
Spread Love...


BlueBerry Pick'n
can be found @
ThisCanadian
~~~
"We, two, form a Multitude" ~ Ovid.
~~~
"Silent Freedom is Freedom Silenced"
"Do no harm"

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A yet national disease
Posted by: GPFrank on May 19, 2008 1:12 PM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
These posts in their pro and cons are so informative I do not feel I can add. Certainly when other industrially and scientifically advanced countries do the right thing in regard to alleviating suffering there is something wrong and pathological about our leadership and the generally meek acceptance of it.
In this regard,
we are still suffering from the echoes of the big bang of Calvinism onto this continent that happened in the 17 th Century. And the worst of it is, most people don't know what Calvinism is and never have even heard of it.

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Cannabis for pain Relief
Posted by: macdon1 on May 19, 2008 4:17 PM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
I had a personal experience with one of my close friends who died of cancer last year. This lady was 60 years old and had recurring bouts since she was in her 30's. She was also a much loved neighbor with dozens of friends. Her pain and discomfort limited her to bed, with occasional times she could sit up in a wheelchair, but she enjoyed visiting with her many friends as much as possible. Because she was provided with medical grade cannabis this lady was able to keep her pain meds to a minimum, eat well and enjoy the final days of her life instead of being drugged into a stupor. The medical people associated with her case would not approve medical cannabis even though she was dying, so it was provided for her without their knowledge. A family member risked being "busted" for drugs to get it. Doctors know cannabis is a valid pain relieving medication but most will not risk going against big pharma and their paid for political lackeys to get it for their patients.

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» What about the children? Posted by: rafaeltoral
» RE: What about the children? Huh? Posted by: countingdaisies
Probably 90% of all medical problems are caused...
Posted by: rafaeltoral on May 19, 2008 4:56 PM   
Current rating: 1    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
by the terrible way that we live. Its not about finding a cure its about preventing the illness at the source. You can waste 12 years going to medical school and try as you might to find a cure. Cancer is a natural reaction to an unnatural enviroment.

Figure it out already.

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I GET SO DAMNED MAD AT OUR 'health care delivery system" that I could
Posted by: Raymond Emerson on May 19, 2008 4:55 PM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
spit nails. My first wife was in misery for years. I finally had to take her out of hospitals and care for her at home. Her pain would rise in the evening and subside in the day. The doctors and the hospitals just let her suffer. I took her home. I did the medication and I chose the pattern of medication. If I never let the pain get bad it was fairly easy to stop. Often I could get her 12 pain medication free hours in a day. The nursing homes and the doctors and the hospitals just didn't care. It was all about money. Ps. I did have to have a cooperative family physician. Toward the end she told me, "You got me a year I wouldn't have had." The real catch is that not everybody has me and when my time comes I won't have me.

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As a Fibromyalgia sufferer
Posted by: sweet_byrd on May 19, 2008 5:26 PM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
I have been told nearly every time I have asked for painkillers one of 3 things:

1) Just take a Tylenol (which has an effect akin to peeing on a forest fire)
2) We don't do pain management here.
3) You're a drug-seeker.

I once got so fed up with being accused of drug abuse that that I grabbed the doctor by her self-righteous white lab coat lapels and screamed at her that I didn't want pills, I wanted biofeedback. No, I didn't get that, either.

So I'm under no treatment whatsoever for my chronic pain, chronic fatigue illness. Fibromyalgia is insidiously vicious even when it isn't in flare -- I have little energy, minuscule stamina, limited strength. Like having the flu or mono, only all the time. Those are my good days. On my bad days, well, I wonder sometimes if pain can actually cause death.

But I have no medication. No physical therapy. Hell -- I feel lucky to find a doctor that believes this is real, despite the fact that it has been well chronicled since the 1700s, and is an official diagnosis with a for-real ICD-9-CM diagnostic code (729.1). Getting anything done about it is incredibly rare, and getting anything effective done about it is pretty damn close to impossible.

So what do I do about it? Yoga, when I have the energy. Meditation, whenever possible. Acupuncture, when I can afford it. And most of all, I resent the living hell out of a medical system that would rather see me suffer than take me seriously. Do I want to be tripped out on major painkillers all the time? Of course not -- the very idea is repulsive (and reference my desire for biofeedback above). But I wish that doctors would take me seriously enough to do something about it all. I don't want pity; I want to be able to function. And until someone starts to take me seriously and make pain management a priority, I'm just going to keep limping along the way I have been.

Note to the medical profession: Ring me up when you start giving a damn, ok? Then we can chat.

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» RE: As a Fibromyalgia sufferer Posted by: badkitty68
society and the system
Posted by: vinegar896 on May 19, 2008 6:09 PM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
The most poignant part of this article for me was the identification of NIH funding. The author is completely correct. If NIH started giving out money for something as "amorphous" as pain releif research, the general public would be angry.

This topic seems to highlight well many of the problems that the us health care system faces. Some are societal--like our stigmatization of drugs (opiates, cannibis), and the corporate, thereby government, interests that fuel that societal perception (big pharma, etc). I think macdon1 hit the nail on the head identifying that drs know cannabis would help releive pain, but cannot prescribe it.

The US Health Care system is pretty screwed up, for a number of reasons. It's a frankenstein of a system due to the fact that helpful initiatives fail due to fearmongering by politicians fueled by the almighty dollar, then pieces of the "socialist" universal agenda get passed piecemeal instead. One thing this article did not explicitly state was that those other countries mentioned that actually do utilize pain management have universal health care. Yet this is what Americans fear? A system where people who need care get care? A system where people receive medications they need that can relieve their suffering? (I don't want to hear one argument about taxes; we're spending billions to kill people in iraq and how much on health care?)

and a side note, pleaides, my understanding is it's not bush sending people to the ER, clinton did, by passing EMTALA.

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» RE: society and the system Posted by: dr_dredd
» RE: society and the system Posted by: kegbot1
My bottom line
Posted by: herronsmith on May 19, 2008 7:07 PM   
Current rating: 4    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
I believe we may be missing the bigger picture but believe me, all the littler pictures certainly contribute to the big picture and that, in my opinion, is corporate greed and filling your pockets as quickly as possible. Please don't insult me and tell me it isn't. I witness it every day. I just got home a few hours ago from taking care of 83, 85, and 95 year old patients. These people were removed from long-term care facilities because they had all developed symptoms of infections and the nursing homes panicked. None was coherent enough to make any sound decisions. All were being given hideously expensive antibiotics with the same inevitable outcomes: they will most likely end up dying before they get back "home". They had feeding tubes placed, butchered necks from IV's inserted by interns. They needed to be suctioned because the sputum was choking them. They were all incontinent of stool and the one who didn't have a tube collecting urine was incontinent of that as well. None could turn without assistance and in such much pain although they couldn't say they were having pain and none had anything stronger than Tylenol ordered. It would become my duty to try to weasel more medication out of an ill-informed physician.
The 95 yr old's daughter wanted her taken back to the nursing home as they felt she could get adequate care there and shouldn't have been admitted. She had gotten dizzy, fallen, and hit her head requiring stitches. A call was made and the doctor talked them into staying as she really needed those high dollar antibiotics. I bet a months salary she never makes it home.
This is common practice, it is what I witness day in, day out. Only the names change. It is torture, pure and simple. These people take a bit of my heart everyday and for what? Money. You can't offer any other "viable" reason why supposedly sane individuals would cause such unnecessary suffering. The nurse knows who the offending physicians are. Can we say anything? Not if we want to stay working there. And of course no physician will dare complain about another physician as this is still a "good ole' boys network". Again, don't insult me by telling me differently. I have been doing this for 30 years.
Nothing will make a difference as long as this present form of healthcare persists and the only good thing is that it can't survive forever. Removing the stigma of dying would be a good start. Too many family members are afraid to let go because of their own feeling of mortality. My 95 year old begged me to help her die and what could I really do to help facilitate that? She knew