Sorry but this just strikes me as so many kinds of wrong that I find it hard to comprehend.

Personally I find even the idea of shaving a lady's area to be slightly uncomfortable... when I take a woman to bed, thats what I want a woman, not someone trying to be a pre-pubescant girl.

I really just wonder where the pressure is coming from for most women to even look at such surgery, let alone go under the knife. Personally I would do everything I could to talk my GF out of such surgery... if she wheren't already sane enough to accept the fact that has had 2 kids and that has changed her body. I really can't think of any of my male friends or aquaintences who would want the women in their life to undergo something as drastic and possibly dangerous for this.

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Re-constructive surgery started as a positive for many. Unfortunately, it was realized it could be used to change things that were never meant to be.

When I saw a plastic surgery show in which a mother gave her daughter a breast augmentation as a graduation present, I was nauseated.

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It's really to bad that women don't realize that when a real man loves her there is not another woman alive as beautiful as she is. Tucks, snips, injections and now vaginal redisign do not make a woman sexy. That comes from within. These things only get the medical professions ahead at the bank.

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I personally am not enthralled with any of these practices, but you never make an argument as to why they may be "culturally harmful." You make the important distinction between the ability to have and make choices about body modifications--as in your comparisons with clitoridectomies and foot-binding--but you never say what the problem is with those women choose to modify their bodies. You appeal to some vague sense of shared outrage, but never close the deal.


Where does one draw the line between tattooing, piercing, coloring one's hair, putting on lipstick/makeup (how much? what kind?) and body "enhancements?" Everyone does something--there are virtually no "natural" bodies. To make your case, you need to go beyond personal preference and trying to incite a sense of outrage--otherwise we wind up covering the same ground again and again.

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it starts when a girl is about 12-ish, when axillary hair begins to grow, followed by more noticeable leg hair. not sexy! not allowed in this country! and we snigger when we see women who choose to ignore the artificial cultural constraints that deem these natural biological phenomena "unacceptable." who decided that our bodies are not OK as they are, as they develop when we mature? i've seen a tv advert where people are "processed" and changed from individuals into identical clones of an unnatural pair, buff and blonde and "perfect". is this where we are headed? every woman blonde, pert, hairless and virginal? (whatever happened to the holy trinity - maiden, mother, crone?) will any of these born-again virgins have the wisdom to guide the legions of young girls who are looking for direction?

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I don't hear of men scrambling to have their genitalia modified! Circumcision is usally accomplished soon after birth on baby boys. Those who opt for such surgery later in life must live through the pain of surgery and the gifts of Playboy mags from their fellow men while in recovery.

But, when I was a young lad taking swimming lessons I was surprised to see the vast variety in penises in the changing rooms. I had always assumed we were "all created equal".

To our amazement and awe, accompanied by falling down laughing spells, my friends and I were bewildered by the assortment of the male genitalia in our locker rooms.

There were big ones, short ones, fat ones, skinny ones. Some were bent, others were straight, curved, twisted and almost hidden. Testicles were unseen and some were hanging below and beyond the various shapes and sizes of penises.

I dare say no doctor in his right mind would want to undertake the task of making them all look alike nor would there be any volunteers for such butchery.

I guess thats the difference between boys and girls.

Plus, I believe that God gave women labia majora for a good reason; it's a very nice cushion during sex.

And the bulge in a woman's bikini has always turned a man's eye with wonderment and fantasy soon to follow. Hey! It's sexy! Leave them alone!

A prolapsed uterus is another matter for sure. That condition can and should be corrected for the health and pleasure for some woman who have had children.

Hey, variety is the spice....or so they say.

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Isn't the intersection of class privilege and sexism a disaster? Thanks for this piece. It really is about the (re)construction of women from the inside out for the pleasure of men. (I've never heard of any such multilating shenenigans going on among lesbians, that's for sure.) Women who have choices might better choose to contribute something more than an enhanced g-spot to society - like say fighting for basic healthcare for everyone.

www.suekatz.com
linked text

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Gee, it's great to know that people with such adult priorities, people who represent 95 percent of those who read tabloid newspapers and magazines, and more examples of their mentality are now empowered as they are. They have so much power that they've abandoned and waged war on our children preferring "career," stabbed in the back (mostly while he slept) males who built the world in which their treacher is possible, even trivialized the language. As columnist Maureen Dowd, writing in September 2000, once observed, "I feel a certain undeniable pride that women have taken control of the two great male preserves of America -- politics and sports -- and ruined them." "Crying, H.L. Mencken once observed, is blackmail." www.judoknighterrant.com

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so this is not at all shocking in a society that uses the word 'feminist' as an insult.

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Or does "choice" not go beyond the uterus?

It seems a little dishonest to talk about how women ought to have ultimate "choice" over their own bodies, to just turn-around and hector such women as having "more money than sense".

Well, who the hell are you to tell a woman what she can and can't do with her body?

Is "choice" just a meaningless term now?

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It's amazing, isn't it, what humans will get up to in order to attract a mate or to please each other or to satisfy some inner desire. We can view this as wonderful or terrible, but the evidence is that these practices will continue as long as our species inhabits the earth. One thing people should remember, however, is the new old saying: "Cut in haste, regret at leisure."

Greenman

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I like what the previous poster said about how he noticed that men's privates came in all shapes and sizes...uh, duh! so do women's! I think our society is suffering from a mental illness of some sort and it's slowly spreading. I think you have to be very strong, mentally, to survive and still be somewhat sane in this toxic environment. Media advertises these images for a reason...and we need to stop ingesting it. "Can't Buy By Love" is a good book on the negative effects of adverts.

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Humans do strange things to their bodies to be (what they consider) attractive to other humans. Who knew?

If whatever procedure involved is not forcible, mandatory, and/or coerced, who cares? More specifically, why do you care what some other woman's vagina looks like? Is someone forcing you to either look at it or make yours look a particular way?

How is this literally ANY of your business?

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yeah. sign me up for summa THAT.

some people, I swear... if you're sitting around with a mirror trying to figure out if your pussy is *enough*...

then I think we've all had enough of YOU.

just say'n.

sure, there are legitimate surgeries & circumstances...
but come on.
exactly WHAT about slicing delicate nerves & robust muscles sounds like a path to Happiness?

~~~
Spread Love...
... but wear the Glove!

BlueBerry Pick'n
can be found @
ThisCanadian
~~~
"We, two, form a Multitude" ~ Ovid.
~~~
"Silent Freedom is Freedom Silenced"

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Back in 1995, at age 27, I had labia that was 9 centimeters when pulled out from the body. They don't know why. I was more prone to yeast infections because it practically formed a seal over my vagina, every time I had a period, blood would collect and push FORWARD, often beyond any pads - a very embarrassing stain. The labia interfered with standard underwear, and it made me have a HUGE camel toe!

So, while still married to a military man, I had the surgery at the military hospital (not exactly the leaders in cosmetic surgery!). The gynecologist suggested it after I complained about it, but was very cautious, saying they don't want to cut anything unnecessarily, or just cut for cutting sake. They warned me of possible problems, and the only problems I have had are, when I DO get a yeast infection (very very rarely) or have any itching, the tissue swells up and the scars itch more - easily fixable with vaginal anti-itch cream.

Quite honestly, it also made masturbation and sex MUCH better - they cut in such a way to actually ADD stimulation.

As a feminist, I don't like the idea of fixing what's not broken - we are all beautiful as is. I RARELY wear makeup - but I don't have many flaws to cover, anyway. If someone who has a REAL need to a surgery wants it, and maybe you have a higher chance of having mind-blowing sex because you are now prettier and can attract a hotter mate, or you tightened up what was a damaged vagina, whatever . . . well, that is what choice is really about. Don't stand in front of that clinic and tell me I can't have an abortion (another choice laden with 'supposed to' and with social benefits or punishments), don't tell me I can't get my labia reduced.

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This one piqued my curiosity, and isn't unfotunately referenced further in the article. To the best of my knowledge, the G-spot, sometimes called the female prostate, is an area of roughened skin and nerve endings on the upper inside of the vagina. From the male perspective it has no bearing on sex, and in fact for most of my adult life I erroneously thought it was a myth! But a few years back I had a relationship with a woman who'd never had an orgasm and who got no pleasure from the sort of clitoral stimulus that I'd long experienced as pleasurable to women. To make a long story short, after many months of patient work (I'd read about G-spot stimulation by then) we got her to the point of having her first of many subsequent orgasms.

My point and sorry for the long-windedness is, that could it be that the "enhanced G-spot" is one bright area in this dismal parade of medical horrors? My suggestion may derive from lack of knowledge of what the term means, but on the surface (pun intended) enhancing that portion of the female anatomy seems to be something of actual benefit to a woman, and of no consequence to any of her partners.

Anybody out there know anything about this?

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and I have to say this is simply sickening. It never ceases to amaze me what people will buy into in the name of fashion or to be considered sexually desirable by some others. It's utterly mindless!

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This is going to create massive social pressure for women to go have surgery to get that socially desired look. Men will begin denying women with ugly vagina's, in favor of the more desirable modified ones.

Some of the women claim its not purely cosmetic, but also for health reasons, they say the surgically modified vagina is less likely to get infections.

Isn't this Ironic?

Women have always been free from social pressure to surgically alter there genitals, while most men are circumcised against there will at birth, mainly due to social pressure.

I guess this is just one genital mutilating happy country.

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I mean, c'mon - how are we to judge w/o pictures??!

Okay, couldn't resist that one - but seriously folks, there are tribes in Africa which routinely puncture the penis and insert rocks to make it 'ribbed for her pleasure' It's been going on for centuries.

As for the ladies - the hood of the clitoris wasn't designed all that well. I've spoken with more than one (lady, not clit) who've had "a little off the top" and enjoyed sex much more as a result.

The labia weren't designed with pantyhose in mind. Protruding lips may have been a visual sexual stimulant back in the Garden of Eatin', but today they can just cause unwanted irritation.

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When we see things like this we are always in such aww...everyone asks the question, "What would make people think like this?" No one really understands the real reason behind why this sort of surgical madness is even a conceivable thought: this is just the latest extension in the overarching reach of capitalism. Our market-oriented economy has conditioned us to see things through the lens of production, consumption, and profit-maximizing. Really it is no surprise to me that these sorts of surgeries are being performed when all you have to do is look the pages of any recent catalogue, the images of any billboard, commercials on TV, or any hot celebrity in the latest gossip magazine to see why people are always wanting to modify the way they are seen in society. Bombarded by advertising, usually themed with some sort of sexual appeal, we are constantly being told that we are not adequate, not up to par, and that we should not be satisfied with what we already have. Whether that be our clothes, latest technology, or body shape. It is a fundamental characteristic of capitalism to always be transforming the latest trend into a new and more profitable commodity. This term commodity is no longer just meant for objects and things, but it has been transferred to refer to people as well. People have become commodities; this is why we have children and workers being exploited so the capitalists can maximize their salaries. The advertising industry is destroying us, especially women in our society, by painting pictures of unattainable beauty--unattainable because the models aren't even real, their images are airbrushed and doctored to show the "best" figure. This is is how capitalism functions and these sorts of harmful surgeries and similar self-hating acts are just a side effect of the supposed "insatiable" wants and habits that we are conditioned to practice and perpetuate.

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but where do the trends concerning women's appearances start? It seems to me that every time I go to the grocery store there are at least twenty different magazines(Elle,Cosmo,and so on) exclaiming the next big thing for women.I'm not certain but I think most of these magazines have women as editors.Cosmo for sure.Who is doling out the information about the trends in body shape and hair color and when a woman should get liposuction or have her stomach stapled? There seems to be a lot of it coming in the newest issue.These magazines are a billion dollar industry.Who is buying them?
I don't want to step on any toes and I might sound a bit naive but it doesn't seem to me that men are creating the trends here.

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AAAAAAAARgh!

Nihilo sanctum est ne?

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We love those vaginas just the way we find them. There is no inferior or superior one. The diversity is wonderful and there is no norm. Sigh a breath of relief, women, you don't have to get cut upon or spend any money on money grubbing plastic surgeons. We like 'em natural, full of pheremones, however the labia may fall and hairy, 'cause we love you just the way the dear Lord made you!

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Some labia are prettier than others. But 'a nice personality' can make up for it, right??

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A couple went out together. After a while he whispered in her ear, the sweetest thing.
"I have eleven fingers."

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In some cases it was merited, but in cases involving things like ladies shaving their legs and so on, and in general body shape, to a great extent it's a matter of societal conditioning, not "growing up", though some is also built in. Usually, the styles that were prevalent when we were in puberty are the ones that attract us most for the rest of our lives. Not always, and sometimes some of us get over that, or some portions of it. Sometimes it takes a lot of effert.

And for the ones who think shaving, especially "down there" to use the euphemism, is all about wanting pre-pubescent girls, think again. Undoubtedly there are some that's true for, but personally, aside for a "landing strip" or other artful remainder, I've always liked seeing and having access to that area, and the ladies who did that found the area more sensitive. That's just a matter of personal taste; au natural is fine too. And I've always been with - and have been married for many years to - a woman my age or older. I want an equal or better, not a child, thank you (and I'm 51).

Cosmetic things like shaving are minor, especially compared to the things some primitive societies have done and some still do. Surgery, well, it's a sad thing when a person feels he or she has to do something that drastic to feel good about themselves, and it says a lot about the power of advertising. But ladies, PLEASE - taking this kind of chance for cosmetics reasons is near - if it doesn't cross the line - insane! ANY surgery can be deadly, or have unforeseen side-effects. LASTING ones.

I learned a long time ago that real beauty has more to do with how a woman feels about herself, who she is, her interest in her partner and willingness to share equally - and gentlemen, that goes both ways! - than it does with just looks. When I was younger I thought "chunky" women were unattractive. Then I met Katherine, who was such a fantastic person, her her sexiness was just as much a part of her as her eye color - she was a sexual being, and she enjoyed and appreciated that part of herself, honestly, no games, as much as she (and I) did her sharp intellect. She exercised both, and taught me a lot about women-as-people.

Sometimes we are so damaged in some ways that it takes something that drastic to make us feel good about ourselves, but I'm sorry to see it, and it's my hope that this idiot society grow beyond that someday, though I don't see it happening soon. Ladies, beauty is WHO you are, how you feel about yourselves, and how you feel about and treat others. I've known models I wanted nothing to do with, and I've known women most guys didn't look twice at who were sexy and fascinating - if you took the trouble to smile, say "Hello", and maybe hold a door... Male or female, people are people, and we're all built on the same basic design. Inside and outside. Take care of yourself, be open to others, be honest, gentle, and learn to care, and you won't have any problems. Everyone has different preferences in shape and size as well as coloration and personality, and there's someone out for everyone. Quit worrying about it and enjoy people - they're the most fascinating critters on the planet!

Ian

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There is a completely equivalent field of self-modification available to men, or at least, developed for men. What's interesting, academically, is that societal acceptance of paid or "lazy" self-modification for women is much, much higher. I'm talking, of course, about "juicing," or "steroids."

By living an active lifestyle and lifting a bit, men who pay for steroids can successfully increase their sex appeal by becoming more muscled and chiseled - which is the most widespread and clear equivalent to a woman's increased breasts, ass, lips, etc. The ease with which this is accomplished is incomparable to the "natural" method.

The stigma associated with this kind of "cheating" is incredibly powerful for men.

Why the divide?

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perfect insights, clearly articulated. Thanks, Cath.

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I'm against vagina-plasty. I find it hilarious that you dirty hippies oppose that surgery, but are fine with force female genital mutilation (as long as it's practiced by Muslims).

I guess only Muslims can abuse women, but Western women should have no choice about their bodies.

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This latest craze in "self improvement," along with our addiction to techno-toys as symbols of hipness, only serves to confirm the fact that we are becoming a nation of narcissistic children trapped in adult bodies.

Considering the future we face, we are, in a sense, helping to bring about our own demise as a species by insisting on being frozen in a state of pubescence and mindless consumerism.

(For a hint of how we might end up – if we survive – check out the Eloi in H.G. Wells' "The Time Machine.")

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The assertions here are absolutely spot on but for one thing. I am a little dismayed by what I will presume is prudishness or at least narrow-mindedness when it comes to shaving genitals. The implication is a leaning towards pedophilia, and it seems a common insinuation among some progressives when sexuality in culture comes up for discussion .
I would ask if the author feels that a man who shaves his face is trying to look like a pre pubescent boy, as the logic is the same. How about a woman shaving leg and armpit hair? Really, what is the difference? Many men feel that facial shaving enhances individuality, sensitivity, hygiene and is more visually compelling, among other things. And guess what? The same can apply to genitals. Men who feel forced by society to keep their facial hair and are judged harshly for shaving live in very rigid and repressive societies. The requirement to shave is based on a narrow interpretation and reveals very brittle and puritanical judgments. If the shoe fits...

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they are ready to suffer greatly to pleases us ?

Fine.

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pay a doctor to cut my vagina with scalpels? i'd rather drop a brick on my foot, less injurious.

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Why don't we just all get blow up dolls!!!! We have the technology to make robot dolls (both male and female) that can look and feel like anything we want.

Just think.... Sat. nite comes rolling around and instead of going out and spending a bunch of money on dinner and drinks, maybe a movie trying to get a partner in hopes of satisfying our most intimate of feelings just visit your local Robots for Romance store and get exactly what you want and know that it will perform exactly how you want!! Now that is real money management!!

This not only makes me sick to my stomach it also scares the hell out of me!! Our society is becoming increasingly more insensitive to each other in every respect.

THIS IS NOT GOOD NO MATTER HOW YOU LOOK AT IT!!!

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This is a very, very small issue against the backdrop of the stupification of the masses. Frankly, I could care less what stupid people do to themselves. If they whack the whole thing off, mutilate it, destroy it ... see if I care. We cannot save the stupid from themselves. However, where the stupidity is a threat to world security is when all these perfect jackasses go into a voting booth and vote for a holocaust (like in Iraq). That's my ONLY concern ... not whether these dumbshits are mutilating themselves. Come to think of it, if they followed the leader off the highest cliff like the lemmings that they are, fine with me.

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I've slept the women of a variety of sizes, and the difference in vagina size does make a difference in how you have sex. I'm within a couple millimeters of Peter North's claimed measurements, and I sometimes had to be very careful with petite girls. It worked best with them on top. Taller girls, who generally had larger vaginas, were a somewhat better fit that allowed for more vigorous, athletic sex; if I wanted a tighter feel, we'd simply assume a position that had her thighs together, such as her lying on her side with me kneeling. There's no reason to surgically alter yourself; just develop a greater awareness of sexual positions and how your body works in each.

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I read it on Alternet.

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what Morticia said, but also to let the woman on top. The key here is to only partially penetrate the vagina to where the penis is just about to come out and is in a bind, pushing against the spot. Then the woman can tilt her pelvis upward and sit down hard, grinding the heck out of it against the G-spot. The man tilts his pelvis back and up to just the right angles and makes small figure 8 motions, being careful to let the woman control the action...inspite of his sometimes overwhelming desire to thrust deeper as his (and her) excitement grows. Let her be well on her way before really driving it home and she will be most grateful.

Like Morticia said, it isn't the frict