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Health & Wellness

Pentagon, Big Pharma: Drug Troops to Numb Them to Horrors of War

By Penny Coleman, AlterNet. Posted January 10, 2008.


The DoD is flirting with the idea of medicating soldiers to desensitize them to combat trauma -- will an army of unfeeling monsters result?
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In June, the Department of Defense Task Force on Mental Health acknowledged "daunting and growing" psychological problems among our troops: Nearly 40 percent of soldiers, a third of Marines and half of National Guard members are presenting with serious mental health issues. They also reported "fundamental weaknesses" in the U.S. military's approach to psychological health. That report was followed in August by the Army Suicide Event Report (ASER), which reported that 2006 saw the highest rate of military suicides in 26 years. And last month, CBS News reported that, based on its own extensive research, over 6,250 American veterans took their own lives in 2005 alone -- that works out to a little more than 17 suicides every day.

That's all pretty bleak, but there is reason for optimism in the long-overdue attention being paid to the emotional and psychic cost of these new wars. The shrill hypocrisy of an administration that has decked itself in yellow ribbons and mandatory lapel pins while ignoring a human crisis of monumental proportion is finally being exposed.

On Dec. 12, Rep. Bob Filner, D-Calif., chairman of the House Veterans Affairs Committee, called a hearing on "Stopping Suicides: Mental Health Challenges Within the Department of Veterans Affairs." At that hearing suggestions were raised and conversations begun that hopefully will bear fruit.

But I find myself extremely anxious in the face of some of these new suggestions, specifically what is being called the Psychological Kevlar Act of 2007 and use of the drug propranalol to treat the symptoms of posttraumatic stress injuries. Though both, at least in theory, sound entirely reasonable, even desirable, in the wrong hands, under the wrong leadership, they could make the sci-fi fantasies of Blade Runner seem prescient.

The Psychological Kevlar Act "directs the secretary of defense to develop and implement a plan to incorporate preventive and early-intervention measures, practices or procedures that reduce the likelihood that personnel in combat will develop post-traumatic stress disorder (PTSD) or other stress-related psychopathologies, including substance use conditions. (Kevlar, a DuPont fiber, is an essential component of U.S. military helmets and bullet-proof vests advertised to be "five times stronger than steel.") The stated purpose of this legislation is to make American soldiers less vulnerable to the combat stressors that so often result in psychic injuries.

On the face of it, the bill sounds logical and even compassionate. After all, our soldiers are supplied with physical armor -- at least in theory. So why not mental? My guess is that the representatives who have signed on to this bill are genuinely concerned about the welfare of troops and their families. Patrick Kennedy, D-R.I., is the bill's sponsor, and I have no reason to question his genuine commitment to mental health issues, both within and outside of the military. Still, I find myself chilled at the prospects. To explain my discomfort, I need to go briefly into the history of military training.

Since World War II, our military has sought and found any number of ways to override the values and belief systems recruits have absorbed from their families, schools, communities and religions. Using the principles of operant conditioning, the military has found ways to reprogram their human software, overriding those characteristics that are inconvenient in a military context, most particularly the inherent resistance human beings have to killing others of their own species. "Modern combat training conditions soldiers to act reflexively to stimuli," says Lt. Col. Peter Kilner, a professor of philosophy and ethics at West Point, "and this maximizes soldiers' lethality, but it does so by bypassing their moral autonomy. Soldiers are conditioned to act without considering the moral repercussions of their actions; they are enabled to kill without making the conscious decision to do so. If they are unable to justify to themselves the fact that they killed another human being, they will likely -- and understandably -- suffer enormous guilt. This guilt manifests itself as post-traumatic stress disorder (PTSD), and it has damaged the lives of thousands of men who performed their duty in combat."


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Penny Coleman is the widow of a Vietnam veteran who took his own life after coming home. Her latest book, Flashback: Posttraumatic Stress Disorder, Suicide and the Lessons of War, was released on Memorial Day, 2006. Her blog is Flashback.

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When the first "mourning after" pill...
Posted by: Nigelthebriton on Jan 10, 2008 12:39 AM   
Current rating: 4    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
...has been issued to these soldiers, won't that be an admission by the US Government that it's so-called "War on Drugs" is, in effect, LOST?

[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]

» When Johnny Comes Marching Home Posted by: Artkansas
» War on drugs lost? Never! Posted by: Livemike
US Death Toll from Iraq
Posted by: SENILEBIKER on Jan 10, 2008 12:40 AM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
6000 suicides of vets in one year alone!

Although the statistic does not say that the vets were all from Iraq, this number is seven times the number killed in the field in 2006! Even if only 50% were related to to this latest war in Iraq, then you could multply the death toll by 3.5 and this would bring the total death toll of US forces from this conflict to around 15000 so far.

Seems the "enemy" has found something more effective than IED's

[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]

» RE: US Death Toll from Iraq Posted by: CUnknown
» Here I found it. Posted by: abbadon2007
Largely, pentagon shrinks will use...
Posted by: ABetterFuture on Jan 10, 2008 1:12 AM   
Current rating: 4    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
...the same criteria to prescribe drugs to soldiers as public/private quacks use to determine and augment the mental health of six year olds.

Consistent? Yes.

Concerning? Umm, yeah.

A medicated nation is quite concerning...

[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]

» We're already a nation of addicts in denial. Posted by: Aposterioriperception
They deserve the pain
Posted by: El Hombre Malo on Jan 10, 2008 1:54 AM   
Current rating: 3    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Don't take me wrong, I am not implying all troops deserve punishment or are bad persons. But moral pain is the price you have to pay for violence, even justified violence.

Both personally and as a society, we must face the consecuences of our acts. As a society, these pains affect the political discourse and the way things are done, make us learn from experience, make us a better society. The fact soldiers from developed countries are less and less able to come back untouched from the atrocity of War speaks in favour of the moral position their societies adopt (note that I don't refer to goverments).

There is a reason Kurt Vonnegut was such a good spoker for the end of wars and that is his experience in Dresde. Through history we find many war veterans becoming "peacenicks", and thats because from moral pain comes moral growth. The drug the article describes is not just perverse because it tries to cripple the individual moral judgement in favour of combat effectivity. It is perverse because it would cripple society's learning mechanisms.

After all, armour, tactics and combat medicine have reduced casualties in developed armies to a minimum. If we minimize the moral impact too, soon wars would be so "cheap" to have that societies wouldnt hesitate declaring one for the smallest casus belli, given there is something to gain...for someone.

[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]

» RE: They deserve the pain Posted by: Longdream
» RE: They deserve the pain Posted by: Cathyc
» RE: They deserve the pain Posted by: donl51
» RE: They deserve the pain Posted by: peacefullaim
» RE: They deserve the pain Posted by: EdinIowa
» RE: They deserve the pain Posted by: Livemike
» RE: They deserve the pain Posted by: Longdream
» RE: They deserve the pain Posted by: liber8usa
» RE: They deserve the pain Posted by: liber8usa
Take this article down.
Posted by: hellofriends on Jan 10, 2008 1:54 AM   
Current rating: 3    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Propranolol, and other beta-blockers, do not "morally amputate" victims of PTSD. What they do is dampen the never-before-experienced surge of adrenaline that accompanies a trauma. This drug does not alter your consciousness or your conscience in the slightest; it subdues the physiological surge that pulses through your brain and body at the moment of shock. This effect (which is largely somatic) enables a degree of existential presence to enable the mind to process the experience in "long-term" storage, which is where non-traumatic memory goes, rather than remain unprocessed as a trauma.

I am forever skeptical of psychiatry's advances, and always inclined to poeticize science, but I urge you to remove this article: you need to talk to doctors before writing something like this. I'm sure your intentions were good, but you clearly have no understanding of how this drug works, and your nightmarish predictions that this will create an army of remorseless monsters is impossible and extremely unhelpful to anyone who might dramatically benefit from this.

Talk about lithium and the arts, philosophize about paxil and social interaction, but not this. Not all prescription drugs are horrors that block one's engagement with real life. My experience of reading your article might be similar to a lot of readers here who watch a 1960s anti-marijuana propaganda video.


I take Propranolol. It saved my life; I wouldn't be alive if it weren't for this drug. It didn't save me from my past or excuse me from my morality, it enabled me to realize that i wasn't living in the past anymore, and I could find a way to come to terms with it, rather than be imprisoned by it (which, i assure you, creates far more dangerous societal problems than even the most dramatic fictions of desensitization you conjure.)

This IS an act of compassion. Not only for the soldiers whose experiences you do not understand, but for their families, and also (in direct contradiction to your fear) for everyone else on the battlefield. Panic with a gun in-hand is more dangerous than temporary and chemically-induced level-headedness.

Victims of PTSD can become either hypersensitized or desensitized, and both can happen on the battlefield. If the Propranolol removes the shock from the shell-shock, soldiers can actually feel LESS desensitized in the future, less numb to the hell that surrounds them. caring and knowledgeable psychologists and psychiatrists (not just Big Pharma and Big this Big that) have been urging the use of the drug for PTSD for years.

Again, please take this article down, or add a correction, an amendment--something. you are creating a false public misperception and demonizing a life-saving medication.

[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]

» Well said... Posted by: mjabele
» That's quite a caveat. Posted by: Longdream
» Not really... Posted by: mjabele
» RE: Not really... Posted by: Longdream
» I'm not "justifying" it... Posted by: mjabele
» RE: Take this article down. Posted by: Longdream
» RE:A borg war! Posted by: LeftCoastProgressive
» RE: A borg war! Posted by: Longdream
» RE: Take this article down. Posted by: pcushniesr
» RE: Take this article down. Posted by: Lauren
» Guinea pig soldiers? 'Fraid so. Posted by: thoughtcriminal
» if this were about money Posted by: hellofriends
» dosage, dosage Posted by: hellofriends
» marijuana Posted by: hellofriends
» RE: marijuana Posted by: vegngrl
» RE: marijuana Posted by: hellofriends
» RE: marijuana Posted by: Raymonde
» Have any of you been in combat? Posted by: rraabrophy
» RE: Have any of you been in combat? Posted by: hellofriends
» RE: Have any of you been in combat? Posted by: LeftCoastProgressive
» RE: Have any of you been in combat? Posted by: hellofriends
» I Don't Understand Posted by: pcushniesr
» RE: Take this article down. Posted by: ajagert
» Wyeth PR firm? Burson-Marsteller, is it? Posted by: thoughtcriminal
» RE: Take this article down. Posted by: mountain19
» RE: Take this article down. Posted by: wiegie
» RE: Take this article down. Posted by: hellofriends
» RE: Take this article down. Posted by: Longdream
Let me add two more important things:
Posted by: hellofriends on Jan 10, 2008 2:10 AM   
Current rating: 4    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
1.) the only authority cited here is Leon Kass. First off, he's not the Chairman of the Presiden'ts Council on Bioethics, he's the Former chairman. Secondly, this is GEORGE W. BUSH'S bioethics council. Why would you go to this guy for advice on either biology or ethics?

Leon Kass is one of America's top leaders to prevent Stem Cell research and cloning. He calls homosexuality "one of the sexual abominations of Leviticus—incest, homosexuality, and bestiality." He's against birth control--all birth control--on the grounds that in interferes with a woman's "destiny" as a mother. He considers older bachelor's to be "self-indulgent." in his book "The End of Courtship" he writes:

"Thanks to technology, a woman could declare herself free from the teleological meaning of her sexuality—as free as a man appears to be from his. Her menstrual cycle, since puberty a regular reminder of her natural maternal destiny, is now anovulatory and directed instead by her will and her medications, serving goals only of pleasure and convenience, enjoyable without apparent risk to personal health and safety."


2.) What we should be focusing on here are other ways to treat PTSD. EMDR should be getting as much press as beta-blockers, and their usage is NOT mutually exclusive.

the real questionable drug the military uses is Lariam. this is something they use and should not use.

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» Risperidone is Risperdal Posted by: VannaLaRoche
First the troops, then ...
Posted by: A. Servant on Jan 10, 2008 2:17 AM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
guess who! Read Huxley's Brave New World if you don't know or can't guess.

We each have knowledge of too many outrageous facts of how the centralized system of corporate government has hurt us and others over the past decades. Wouldn't it be "nice" (and for whom?) if we were given a drug to not be bothered by such concerns so we could watch our sports or reality T.V. or news shows without being bothered by such trivialities ? Oh, I forgot, most of us live in metanoia, the opposite of paranoia, without resorting to drugs (hmmm... well maybe not... we do use lots of prescription drugs, alcohol, tabacco, etc.). Perhaps some of the forgetfulness drugs won't be needed until rioting becomes commonplace.

We have learned but a wee portion of the thousands of malevolent actions that have been planned and taken against us, over many decades, to create a playing field rigged against our liberty. If these were mere accidents, why hasn't there been a preponderance of good results with an occasional bad one instead of just the reverse? Have you seen enough to know that we must take a stand to protect ourselves, our loved ones, and future generations? Are you ready to take the lead in helping your communities organize and act?

Don't hope for a savior to create a "centralized solution" that will dissipate the accumulated ills. Historically, what you will receive won't be in your best interest. The media (including mainstream "alternative" media like AlterNet) presents mesmerizing staged theater (ala pro-wrestling) between the Demolican and Republicrat gangs who are paid by the same masters and their proxies. Our reality is that most of us are being kept as slaves in a matrix of control; and we are acting in ways that maintain this system of enslavement. Our voices are ignored by the powerful, and our true needs are overlooked. And as slaves, we are being dominated and imprisoned or threatened with imprisonment when we are bad producers or bad consumers. We are being sickened by limited access to pure air, uncontaminated water, nutritious foods, vital dietary supplementation, honest health information and health cures--not just treatment. And when our usefulness is over, we will be left to die or be killed. The lack of caring that we experience and too often fail to offer to others is not accidental--our indoctrination has been intentionally planned and executed by the proxies of the slave masters.

If you're tired of being enslaved and seeing others threatened with more enslavement, join us in Slaves Anonymous to start making grassroots changes that will improve the security of you and your family. You and your neighbors have the autonomy, creativity, diversity, passion and transcendence to become self-owners and create the conditions necessary for emancipation of your local community from the global tyranny of slavery or serfdom or corporatism or government or fascism or empire or debt-based money or psychopathy or whatever-you-want-to-call-it. You can create ways that lead to less bondage and more humane treatment for yourselves and your neighbors.

Solutions for the common person have been and forever will be grassroots ones that emerge organically from you and your communities. Let's work together: You stop it in your community; I'll stop it in mine.

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averageaussie
Posted by: averageaussie on Jan 10, 2008 3:30 AM   
Current rating: 4    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
So what are they going to do about all the legal and illegal drugs and dope that these guys are already taking/ using? From what I have seen a lot of these guys are already "desensetisd".

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PTSD CANNOT be Preventitively MEDICATED
Posted by: Prairie Waif on Jan 10, 2008 4:46 AM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
PTSD for the military CANNOT be preventatively MEDICATED. In order to say that you can prevent PTSD in the MILITARY you will need to screen ALL of those entering the military for their life experiences to the date of their putting their head on the bunk in boot camp.

You will need to make sure that:
They had no:
1. Childhood Physical Abuse
2. Childhood Emotional Abuse
3. Childhood Sexual Abuse
4. Childhood Bullying
5. Childhood Educational Learning Disorders
6. Undiagnosed Learning Disorders
7. Parental Divorce
8. Parental Remarriage
9. Parental Death
10. Sibling Death
11. Family Trauma
12. Teenage Trauma (Sexual Abuse/Sexual Assault)
13. Teenage Pregnancy
14. Teenage Abortion
15. Teenage Parenthood
16. Poverty
17. Malnutrition
18. Life Long Poverty until head hits pillow in
boot camp
19. Alcoholism
20. Illegal Drug Use
21. Legal Trouble causing a Juvenile/Adult
record
22. From a Ethnic Minority
23. Educationally Disadvantaged
24. Divorced themselves
25. Divorced with Children
26. Divorced Due to Domestic Abuse
27. Children in Custody of Grandparents while in
Bootcamp and Training Course
28. Family illness
29. Close Friend's Death
30. Fire

The list is as long as each trial each of us can think of; you cannot medicate away that which happened BEFORE military service that will accentuate and exacerbate the subconscious memories repressed to the point that "they don't exist" until exploded with the pink mist of a compatriot's blood.

This medication is used experimentally for PTSD and the success is questionable. I did find the Mayo Clinic site to provide some useful information, none of it related to PTSD http://www.mayoclinic.com/health/intermittent
-explosive-disorder/DS00730/DSECTION=1
.

I suffer from Severe Complex PTSD and after 14 years of treatment, I have learned that THERE IS NO CURE, ONLY MANAGEMENT. I have also learned that trauma affects everyone differently. On a plane of 100 people, experiencing the same emergency, only 20 people will develop PTSD, either immediately or Delayed-onset, such as mine; I was out of danger for 18 years before my life unraveled.

Who gets PTSD cannot be prevented because it cannot be predicted. This entire idea of "innoculating" the military against PTSD and the trauma of "war" began the day they were born and they needed to fight in a society that doesn't give a damn about the poor and under-priveleged in this society, starting with if they had pre-natal care or not, if they have medical care or not, daycare or not, school districts that are funded by each district's tax base and leave the rich with good schools and the poor with schools that "get by," and living on the edge of malnutrition in a two parent working-class family, etc, etc.

The only "military" innoculated against the trauma of war? Blackwater. Why? They all came from where the ordinary enlisted military did not, the officer's corp and the "elite" of society, the "entitled" who now feel "entitled" to their 100 billion dollar contracts etc. to fight a war free of the Geneva Convention.

We are innoculating the after effects of this administration's Vendetta, instead of innoculating the despair of a sector of society without hope or help.

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wonderblob
Posted by: wonderblob on Jan 10, 2008 4:53 AM   
Current rating: 4    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
War is a mental illness period. We have all been brainwashed into such a state of irrationality that no drug will heal us. It will only make us more ill. The symptoms showing up in our military personnel are just that symptoms of a wholesale disease we all have, War

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» RE: wonderblob Posted by: Lauren
» RE: wonderblob Posted by: vegngrl
» RE: wonderblob Posted by: vegngrl
Greg
Posted by: thebear on Jan 10, 2008 4:57 AM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
How about medical marijuana for civilians.
Don't hog the compassion. Spread the goodness back home too.

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» RE: Sarcasm Forbidden Posted by: Axiom69
» RE: Greg Posted by: Longdream
» Pot? Why not smack? Posted by: colinmeister
» RE: Pot? Why not smack? Posted by: Longdream
» RE: Pot? Why not smack? Posted by: pomes
Social militarism
Posted by: John Annis on Jan 10, 2008 5:06 AM   
Current rating: 4    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
There has always been an upsurge in criminal violence wherever American troops are active - either as a base or a field of conflict. Even in England in the 1940s the rates of murder, manslaughter, rape and general violence went through the roof. And you were/supposed to be our allies. Ask the people of Okinawa how they feel about the casual violence still meted out to their citizens, and ask how many of the offenders stand trial in the country of the crime.

The problem has been compounded over the past decades because the US hasn't actually won - or helped, as in WWII - to win anything. I trust you'll forgive me if I ignore those stunning military triumphs in Grenada and Panama.

American jingoism and xenophobia has only got worse since the advent of worldwide TV reporting and the Internet, and the vast majority of Americans, never mind just the military, are trained from birth to believe that they enjoy some form of entitlement denied to the rest of the world. It's hardly surprising that when the bulk of American youth, having been trapped into enlistment by the foregoing and the ruses of the recruiters, encounter the real thing they fall apart mentally.

There is another, much cheaper solution than using drug-ridden cyborgs: why don't you stop being such a militaristic society? Why is it that you spend as much as the rest of the world combined on 'defence'? Why do you happily pay half of your federal taxes so a very few people running arms companies can become obscenely wealthy?

What is it that you're so very afraid of, that makes you welcome all these things, even to the extent of allowing a fascist state to begin its growth? Who do you think is going to invade the US, Iran?

It makes me sick to see the increasing use of the word 'warrior' in all things American. As a society we should be learning how we can get on with other people, rather than how to destroy them. The world has never been richer, but there is no cap on the amount of money some people calculate is their due.

If you started behaving like decent human beings instead of banging your chests and being happy to represent the 600lb gorilla, we could all lead more productive and rewarding lives.

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» RE: Social militarism Posted by: Longdream
» RE: Social militarism Posted by: babs
» RE: Social militarism Posted by: Longdream
» RE: Social militarism Posted by: John Annis
» RE: Social militarism Posted by: Longdream
» RE: Social militarism Posted by: VannaLaRoche
Veteran Suicide Rate
Posted by: Raybo on Jan 10, 2008 5:09 AM   
Current rating: 2    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Penny,

6,250 veteran suicides in a year (17 a day) sounds terrible. But, if this rate is for all 23.7 million vets, then it may not be as bad as it sounds. Taking into account that worldwide men commit suicide three times more than women and our military is 80% men, then our military, if like the rest of us, would have 14.3 suicides per 100,000 (the whole US is 11 per). This means that if the veterans were no worse of than the rest of us, there would be 3400 suicides anyway. So, our veterans committed suicide in 2005 at about 1.8 times what the rest of us do. Maybe this is just as bad as it sounds in your article. However, if you look up suicide rates, you would find that our vets commit suicide at a rate less than the country of Japan as a whole. All war suck in my book, and veteran suicides will always be higher; but many countries have higher suicide rates than our veterans.

...just for some perspective.

If, by the way, your figures are not for all Vets, but only for our ongoing wars, then that is a whole other story.

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Old Man of the Mountain?
Posted by: jmmartin on Jan 10, 2008 5:18 AM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
This is ironic to say the least. It harks back to Hassan ibn Sabbah ("the Old Man of the Mountain") who, during the Crusades, emboldened his troops by plying them with hashish; hence their name, the Hashshashin. Hassan's minions were promised much the same reward now meted out to jihadist martyrs: passage to paradise where beautiful gardens, flowing waters, and hot young virgins would await them. What awaits our U. S. troops? A new Disneyland on the Tigris?

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AMPHETAMINES ARE BEING HANDED OUT LIKE CANDY...WHERE HAVE YOU BEEN?
Posted by: kc10ken on Jan 10, 2008 5:22 AM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Combat Veteran here. I did 3 tours in the middle east....13 years time in service before resigning in disgust because of Iraq.

Military doctors have been handing out all types of uppers and downers like candy for the past 5 years. Better to keep our guys doped up and happy lest they discover why they're REALLY in Iraq....right?

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There are not only psychological consequences...
Posted by: ekwhite on Jan 10, 2008 5:48 AM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
there are physical ones. There are several contraindications for propanolol, including shock. See the link below:

Wikipedia entry

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truglass
Posted by: terrapin on Jan 10, 2008 5:54 AM   
Current rating: 3    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
They are taking away the soldiers' humanity, for their own greedy purposes.
This has to be a crime against humanity.

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Spread the wealth
Posted by: rwmk12 on Jan 10, 2008 6:02 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Maybe they can issue it to everyone so working at wendy's, bank of america, or ford isn't so brutally numbing?

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» RE: Spread the wealth Posted by: Longdream
Is there a black market for marijuana out in Iraq?
Posted by: maxpayne on Jan 10, 2008 6:12 AM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
If so, let's open it up to the troops. Marijuana cures lots of illnesses and can get the brain back to normal even if it feels a bit too high at first. At least it's not poisonous unlike any medication Big Pharma would love to shove down the troops' throats.

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» Again - PSTD is not about medication. Posted by: thoughtcriminal
Stressless Warfare
Posted by: Basenjis on Jan 10, 2008 6:28 AM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
One thing I will say about George Bush's little Mideast scuffle, it has generated some interesting discussions about how to make the more unpleasant aspects of warfare less troubling to the American people. Eventually, through the marvels of modern chemistry, we may even find a way to do wars without leaving much of a trace except in the dead and mutilated bodies and demolished countries we leave behind. The "anti-morality" pill under discussion may not be perfect, but it's a start.

There is only one way to take the horror out of these recurring societal convulsions we call "warfare" and that has nothing to do with doping up our children to preserve their sanity after participating in killing orgies that are considered criminal acts so heinous that they are punishable by death in this society in "normal" times.

I am no stranger to PTSD being the mother of a son, carefully and lovingly reared to be kind to animals and to all other living creatures, your ordinary everyday veteran of the horrors of Vietnam. All the pills the VA metes out to him on a monthly basis after all these years has done nothing to restore what war stole from him.

May I add that he was never a combat soldier. He never was involved in the actual killing of men, women and children, but he was a witness to unspeakable horrors.

Should we yield to the ultimate insanity and resort to the final and irrevocable use of our nuclear military arsenal, we may all need a handful of those miraculous desensitising pills.

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Drugging our Troops?
Posted by: kirktc on Jan 10, 2008 6:38 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Well, it might be an approach to take since three quarters of our population have taken drugs for depression and/or counciling. Just to deal with everyday events and job stress.
Soldiers depression is made all the worse for the public opinion of their duty to perform their job. It has a very negative effect on their attitude for choosing to join the Military that demands they defend our Nation. I know this from experience with conversations with soldiers. From Vietnam war veterans to the veterans of today. People ought to listen when they have a chance to talk to a war vet.
And I would like to see statistics on which area they served in while these mental stresses took place? Is it related to one area or several? Has it anything to do with redeployment to an unknown combat area? Is it more prevalent in soldiers that have had to use fire power and sure of a hit, or just as serious for the ones that aren't sure were their hit landed after engagement? Does the soldier who has not had an engagement have the same stress, as the ones who did? Does it break down to being job related stress, with added stress pressure from other fields unrelated to combat zones? And what makes people think that taking an anti-depressent causes lack of moral codes, or desensitizes?

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» RE: Drugging our Troops? Posted by: Lauren
» RE: Drugging our Troops? Posted by: Longdream
Documentary
Posted by: loxias on Jan 10, 2008 6:42 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
There is a great 1990's documentary on this effect. It's called Brain Candy.

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Staying Alert
Posted by: johnjmccarthy on Jan 10, 2008 6:49 AM   
Current rating: 4    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Mandatory med's in the form of high dose dexedrine tabs accompanied US forces who went 'over the fence' into Laos and Cambodia during the Vietnam War. Keeping 'up' for five days was part of the 'routine'. Coming down was an unholy experience to most. Hallucination in a combat environment is hazzardous.

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the next logical step--Harlan Ellison's "Soldier"
Posted by: zooeyhall on Jan 10, 2008 6:50 AM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Realistically, if you want to produce the perfect fighting man, then the use of drugs or whatever to eliminate all feelings of remorse or hesitation to kill is the next logical step in training soldiers.

The great science fiction writer Harlan Ellison wrote a story for the classic Outer Limits TV series called "Soldier". Broadcast back in 1964 it was remarkably prophetic--especially in light of what this article presents as possiblity.

Just think about it: knock-out the human instincts of compassion and remorse and independent thinking to create the ideal fighting man. And you don't do it by the long and uncertain process of basic training brutality, but by applying modern science. Guaranteed results!

I am sure at this very moment there are some young neo-con scientists excitedly working on this very thing somewhere.

There also was a Star Trek-The Next Generation episode that addressed this very same thing.

Science fiction becomes reality.

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myrak
Posted by: myra on Jan 10, 2008 6:58 AM   
Current rating: 4    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
If as George Bush said, we do not condone torture and he has never ordered torture - why would we need to numb our troops? What from? The war of ERROR must be worse than I thought and I have always thought it was a bloody mess. In the Vietnam FARCE troops only served one or maybe two years. Shame on the US.

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NOTHING NEW HERE
Posted by: VZEQICVA on Jan 10, 2008 7:04 AM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Why would anyone expect a bloodless war and a military that doesn't kill anyone because they're too moral? Answer: someone who has never been in a war who really believes that there's an acceptable way to slaughter people. The attack on Iraq was engineered by a bunch of losers who had never even been boy scouts. They were able to rally others who were just as ignorant. Then and now, they simply don't know what to do. They stood behind their president. Isn't that special. Thanks, ANNA

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Who's to say
Posted by: steven w on Jan 10, 2008 7:11 AM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
perhaps that is what is happening to everyone with those damn anti-depressants we take. Those pills made me sexless, null and void until I weened myself off them. I did not feel good, bad, angry, sad, Nothing! I do not mean to sound paranoid or anything but it makes sense to me, what with the way we just eat and shop and ignore the hell outa each other here in America- Something is different!!
If you take anti-depressants try to make damn sure you taking the right one, and lots of exercise can replace anti-depressants if you can muster up the determination to stick to it, along with a good spiritual condition of some kind and turn off the television.

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» RE: Who's to say Posted by: hellofriends
ST:TNG!
Posted by: just john on Jan 10, 2008 8:05 AM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
The very first episode of Star Trek: The Next Generation predicted this.

(Just mentioned it for those keeping score at home.)

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Interrelational effects and cultural effects
Posted by: angel_of_humanity on Jan 10, 2008 8:49 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
I don't think that this has been clearly thought out!
Those of you who have post traumatic stress are able to recieve help from Doctors, hospitals and mental institutions however when it is planned to be given on a mass scale so that the recievers will become guiltless killing machines a whole different set of problems may well arise.
Imagine all of our armed forces returning to the US & society with absolutely no compulsion against or guilt from killing. Yikes!! Nothing that I want to see.
Imagine giving this to all the women who enter the armed forces. Women are the teachers of civility and the softer ways or relateing to each other. Well, if this were so ~ no more!!
Imagine giving this to all of our kids who enter the armed forces. If the first place it is well known that under a certain age and experience level selfishness is rampant. Now add that to killing w/o guilt or conpunction. yikes!!!!
I and most that I know feel that we have those feelings of guilt and inhibitions in place for a good reason and that chaos can ensue if they are removed. Isn't there a mental health term for people like that? Guess you could say then that this drug would thrust a person into that type of mental illness & perhaps cause them to become social deviates.
Not that it matters because I am just an American citizen and that certiantly doesn't count for much anymore in our political or govt circles but I object ~ strongly!!!

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The Kevlar Act is NOT law
Posted by: ajagert on Jan 10, 2008 8:56 AM   
Current rating: 3    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
I believe the author did not clearly state the current status of this piece of legislation. It was introduced in fall of 2007 and then referred to committee. It is NOT law.

http://www.govtrack.us/congress/bill.xpd?bill=h110-3256

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Drugs go to War Again
Posted by: mikelz on Jan 10, 2008 9:08 AM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
What's with all of this hubbub?

Can't we just let the combat troops use the Vietnam method. Heck, you're willing to kill anything when you are insanely drunk. Those guys generally didn't commit suicide until years later.

That saved the DOD some embarrassment and that seems to be the object here.

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OMG what next?
Posted by: cherylholmes on Jan 10, 2008 9:14 AM   
Current rating: 4    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
OMG..what next? Reading this article scared the crap out of me..thinking about my own nephews who have been deployed there so many times and seeing the traumatic affects on them and on friends who have been deployed as well.

This is moral lobotomy, even moral castration or worse. Everything you teach your children is gone so they can function mechanically like machines. When they come home, how do you turn it off? How do you turn off these killing machines? How do you keep them from killing their own families, friends? How do you even get the troops to take this pill? Especially men. Men won't see doctors or take medication. They see it as a weakness.

Why don't we stop this now and just stop this war? Why don't we stop this insanity of imperialism for the sake of the almighty dollar?
What isit going to take to make America wake up? Is this what you want for your children and grand childrens futures? STOP ALL WARS NOW..STOP ANTAGONIZING NATIONS, AND INVADING THEM...GET OFF THIS RUNAWAY TRAIN TO HELL NOW FOR GOD'S SAKE!

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War is Hell..!
Posted by: TJ-stars4peace on Jan 10, 2008 9:38 AM   
Current rating: 4    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Keep it that way..!

The worse it is for those who have to fight the less likely and eagerly we will indulge this barbaric inclination..!

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» RE: War is Hell..! Posted by: vegngrl
Living is easy with eyes closed...
Posted by: alien on Jan 10, 2008 9:48 AM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
I am not surprised that an administration lacking a conscience would expect soldiers can do away with theirs too. Memories teach us life lessons and are not always fun to recall. Memories that can be softened and blunted can not serve their full purpose. This new medication is being used to shut the soldiers up so they can't tell us about the true horrors they have witnessed in Iraq. If we can't learn from our past because we can no longer "feel" our past, then our future is nasty, brutish and short.

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Anonymous comment from expert in Army medicine
Posted by: Joshua Holland on Jan 10, 2008 9:51 AM   
Current rating: 4    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
This is a comment e-mailed to me by someone involved in Army medicine who wishes to remain anonymous for professional reasons:

Penny Coleman’s article is excellent from many perspectives. She accurately describes the tragedy of the epidemic of mental health problems throughout the US military exacerbated in my opinion by a variety of factors not the least of which is asking young men and women to fight wars recently not supported by the general public. Furthermore Coleman correctly highlights “the fundamental weaknesses” in the military’s approach to psychological health. One of the reasons for the latter is the military’s abhorrence for anything that smacks of “human weakness”. Of course this shortsighted machismo culture ultimately backfires because it can only be suppressed for so long.

So the US military, unable any longer, to deny the huge epidemic of mental health problems is finally trying to deal with this problem.

The use of the drug propanalol (a so called beta blocker) is a potential disaster in the making also for many reasons some of which are covered in this article.

As a physician who has been employed for over 35 years in a field of medicine that addresses performance as well as health, both in the workplace and the battlefield, I have warned repeatedly about what I call “the slippery slope of performance enhancing or performance altering drugs”. (Putting aside drugs that might effect ones morality or ethics as raised by Coleman)

While I understand the complexities we all have relating to performance over health Big PhRMA should cease the promotion of drugs for that reason alone. Pharmacology should emphasize treatment- not performance. So the baseball player’s widespread steroid scandal is yet another case in point.

The US Military has an important mission. But using pharmacologic agents that impact performance over health has no medical or ethical place on the battlefield in my opinion.

The so called Psychological Kevlar Act, while well intentioned, must be stopped before more lives and yes souls are lost.

Anonymous Physician

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» Josh, like many of your readers Posted by: hellofriends
» Paranoid much? Posted by: Joshua Holland
» RE: Paranoid much? Posted by: hellofriends
» RE: Paranoid much? Posted by: Joshua Holland
» RE: Josh, like many of your readers Posted by: hellofriends
» RE: Josh, like many of your readers Posted by: drricklippin
» RE: Josh, like many of your readers Posted by: hellofriends
» RE: Josh, like many of your readers Posted by: drricklippin
» Nope... Posted by: mjabele
» RE: Nope... Posted by: Longdream
» RE: Nope... Posted by: hellofriends
» RE: Yup. Posted by: Longdream
» Yes, I do... Posted by: mjabele
NO!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Posted by: audiodef on Jan 10, 2008 10:07 AM   
Current rating: 4    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Shit! Holy mother of God shit!

No! Fucking no!!!! I don't care if I get kicked off for using this language. This is so God-damned wrong I have to say this!

What the hell is the matter with people!?!?!?

Revolt!!!!! NOW!!!!!! Before these damn fascists take your soul!

I shit you not!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

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» RE: NO!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Posted by: MrAllen
» RE: NO!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Posted by: peacefullaim
Drugs have unforseen effects
Posted by: rimab on Jan 10, 2008 10:10 AM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
As a psychologist, I know that any drug that reduces anxiety or strong emotion will also have an impact on the cognitive functioning of the recipient. Alertness, sensitivity, recollection and deliberation, functions which are essential for safety and effectiveness in emergency situations will be affected. I wonder if studies have been done on reaction time, perceptual judgement, social cognition. Often laymen think that we understand these drugs much more than we do and that they can have precise effects. I think they act in a broad brush way and that there is much that we don't know about their effect upon particular individuals and long term repercussions.

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» RE: Drugs have unforseen effects Posted by: hellofriends
Drugs?
Posted by: cwilsondrum on Jan 10, 2008 10:26 AM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Leave it to the military to undo what took 18 years of blood,sweat, and tears, and love to rear a decent human being.
right and wrong,self respect,compassion,these are not easy concepts to help children develop,even though as human beings(some of us)it is a natural progression. If they implement this kind of bullshit, parents will be able to opt out at the first 6 months,already having decided that johnny is going to be a soldier. I can just hear it now" they want animals". can't wait to see this social experiment take 40 years to undo. killing innocent human beings is horrible and should be a nightmare,unfortunately it is only a nightmare for the grunts. You don't see any generals dying looking the the other guy in the eye do you. In fact when is the last time a general was killed in combat?

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Cannabis would be safer and more effective for most people
Posted by: thoughtcriminal on Jan 10, 2008 11:05 AM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Marine Combat Vet Discusses Iraq, PTSD and Medical Marijuana

Background

"The worst mission I went on was when an army tank was traveling down a road and was blown up from a roadside explosive. The bomb was so powerful, you could not identify ANY part of the tank except for the tracks. It had been tossed a couple hundred feet in different directions."

"It took us I think, about 15 hours to do this mission. There was gunfire when we first arrived but nothing more. I think we picked up a couple thousand pieces of flesh that day. Going through each one individually. They would range from small penny sized pieces to legs, torsos, heads, feet, testicles, arms, etc."

"There were a few more missions but we get the idea by now I'm sure. I guess it started to become noticeable that I wasn't doing well. I was taking whole boxes of NyQuil tablets and drinking bottles of medicine to get anything I could out of it at night. I smoked probably a pack of cigarettes a day, which is a lot for me because I have never really smoked more than a couple cigs a day if at all."

Then, he's put on the standard pharmaceutical regime:

"I was being given pills for depression and for insomnia. Then I made it back to the US and once at my base I was seen by a psychologist. They actually gave me the option to get of the military, so I did."

"I had been told the process takes several months to year until you finally leave. In the meantime I started drinking daily, and stopped taking the pills they gave me because they seemed to numb my mind and I could not stand it because I have always had such a wonderful and creative mind. It made me feel like a zombie, I could not even create artwork which was my biggest hobby."

"A month down the road I started having nightmares, very detailed and morbid. A few times I would wake up with tears. I began having suicidal thoughts and crying at least a few times a day. Thank god my best friend was stationed not so far, he saved my life I think."

Then he switches to cannabis

"I started to be able to get a hold of marijuana again and when I had it things were more stable. My temper was not out of hand and I could sleep comfortably having less nightmares. At this point I had gone a year or more straight of having nightmares every night."

"It has been three years now and I am much better. Time has healed me a little and I smoke marijuana as often as I can. I don't have hallucinations anymore, or rarely any nightmares. I do however still have bad anxiety, temper, and depression problems when I'm not high. Another thing I forgot to mention is that PTSD has basically ruined my memory. Since I first showed symptoms until now, my memory does not work nearly as well as it should."

Draw your own conclusions.

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from...
Posted by: formaryjane on Jan 10, 2008 11:29 AM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
a strictly outside point of view... didn't the nazis do this with speed?

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» RE: from... Posted by: hellofriends
from...
Posted by: formaryjane on Jan 10, 2008 11:29 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
a strictly outside point of view... didn't the nazis do this with speed?

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To Josh Holland and Penny Coleman
Posted by: hellofriends on Jan 10, 2008 12:13 PM   
Current rating: 3    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
While this medication, if properly used, can be highly effective, it is not some magical capsule to eliminate any memory we find distasteful or undesirable. This Eternal Sunshine of the Spotless Mind theory stems from a gross misunderstanding (and hysterical overestimation) of the neurological mechanics of this drug. Propranolol doesn't dement someone into freedom from their conscience, it enables them process their experience from an adult perspective, and to employ reason to patch together a fragmented emotional foundation.

The idea has been expressed several times on these boards that people who suffer through wars should continue to suffer through civilian life in the same manner. They should be frozen in time as a living testament to the terror that war is. They should not sleep or rest or feel at peace because they participated in an immoral and illegal action, despite the fact that they probably participated in this action out of poverty and/or misinformation. In other words, as one poster put it, "They deserve it." If opposing war is supposed to be about empathy, this is a very pro-war position.

And the problem with this idea--aside from its shameless frigidity with regards to the human spirit--is that it has no clear end in sight. If mental victims of a human hell should stay in that hell because you think that what they did is bad, should we propose that all therapeutic treatments for PTSD should be done away with? Should we assume that everyone who becomes existentially shattered as a result of war became that way because they committed atrocious acts? Should we not remember that soldiers in war are often driven to atrocity out of chaos and panic? Who are we--especially we civilians--to play god at the Last Judgment? If we help people heal themselves, they become more constructive forces in society. There would be less war if there were less psychological suffering. Doesn't Cheney look like he needs a few pills?

All medications obviously raise moral questions. I agree that marijuana and psychedelics and MDMA can benefit people with PTSD (although not really in the ways proposed on these boards.) But herbs aside, should we not take Advil because humans were meant to feel pain? Should suicidal people not be given Zyprexa because it is their destiny to end their own lives? Should women not take birth control because if they have sex they should get pregnant? These are the views held by the only authority cited in this article, Leon Kass, one of the leading crusaders against stem-cell research, and the former Chairman of Bush's council on bioethics. Again, this is George W. Bush's adviser Alternet is consulting, and this article is basically a summation of his views about biology and ethics, which stem mainly from the old testament.

This Psychological Kevlar Act was put forth by Bob Filner, a progressive Democrat from California. The idea that this is a Big Pharm conspiracy holds very little water. Propranolol is the generic version of Inderal, and it is one of the cheapest medications on the market. Aside from that, unlike many people here have suggested, the soldiers would only be taking this pill as needed, AFTER a traumatic shock occurs. They wouldn't zonk themselves out every day and then walk out onto the battlefield, leaving their morality and sobriety behind them. Relatively few pills will be necessary, so if the DOD simply wants to make a profit of this, they made a very uncharacteristically poor investment.

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To Josh and Penny Continued
Posted by: hellofriends on Jan 10, 2008 12:16 PM   
Current rating: 3    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
I'm shocked that this article is the centerpiece of your website today. I'm perplexed (and a bit amused) that Joshua Holland, for as much as i admire his hydrocarbon research, has even gone so far as to cite a very shady "Anonymous Physician" who praises this piece on the grounds that beta-blockers should not be used for performance anxiety, despite the fact that this Act has nothing to do with performance anxiety (another use of beta-blockers) but with warding off PTSD, the indication in question.

If you think that this Act is honestly a case of "moral lobotomy" and it violates principles of ethics, then come on: as journalists, should apply the same ethical standards to your profession, do some actual research, stop talking out of your ass, and set the record straight on an issue that could improve the lives of countless people. You're surely aware that your articles are pasted in cyberspace in other locations. If you make a correction you could prevent the spread of this damaging misinformation. I wouldn't care so much about this if this medication didn't save my own life.

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» RE: To Josh and Penny Continued Posted by: madmax427
» RE: To Josh and Penny Continued Posted by: hellofriends
» Leave me out of it ... Posted by: Joshua Holland
» RE: Leave me out of it ... Posted by: hellofriends
» RE: Leave me out of it ... Posted by: Joshua Holland
» RE: Leave me out of it ... Posted by: hellofriends
» RE: Leave me out of it ... Posted by: Joshua Holland
» RE: Leave me out of it ... Posted by: hellofriends
Pharmaceuticals, PR firms, government agencies, and online blogging:
Posted by: thoughtcriminal on Jan 10, 2008 12:45 PM   
Current rating: 3    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
We can see that in action here today with "hellofriends". Essentially, one major motivation of this is for pharmaceutical companies to maximize their sales to the military-industrial complex.

Let's play connect-the-dots:

Bush nominee to head Veterans Affairs pledges to move quickly to fix health care problems, AP, Nov 29 2007

"Ret. Army Lt. Gen. James Peake pledged to move quickly to fix gaps in veterans' health care if confirmed as Veterans Affairs secretary...

To alleviate other possible conflicts of interest, Peake also told the Senate committee that he would divest stock holdings in more than 57 companies, many of them major pharmaceutical companies such as Aventis Pharmaceuticals, Bristol Myers, Medtronic, Wyeth and Pfizer, that either currently or might do business with the VA, said a Senate staffer who demanded anonymity because the information had not been made public.

Wyeth is the primary manufacturer of propranolol under the brand name Inderal, and is apparently the sole supplier to Veteran's Affairs.

Wyeth also uses U.S. public universities to promote their drug for PTSD: see UC San Francisco: Common drug, given promptly, reduces incidence of PTSD and the Harvard Gazette: Pill to calm traumatic memories

Harvard has a nice tight relationship with the pharmaceutical industry. They promote the industry viewpoint in all areas, including in international intellectual property law (making sure patented drugs aren't turned into generics in Africa, for example).

Burson-Marsteller, the giant PR firm, handles Wyeth marketing:

"Burson-Marsteller's Healthcare Practice provides clients with full-service communications expertise including clinical and scientific communications, scientific and political consensus-building, ally development and grassroots mobilization, patient advocacy, marketing communications and issues management. The Practice and has received international awards and recognition for its work on behalf of clients including AstraZeneca, Allergan and Wyeth. The Practice has a global reach extending to 39 markets worldwide and serves its four largest clients in at least five markets worldwide."

So, that's how a pharmaceutical marketing campaign works - a full-court press across the board, using government and academic connections, the press, the Internet, and "buzz marketing" approaches.

It's a nice big circle, where everyone gets a cut of the action, in one way or another. This particular drug issue is just one example of the much, much larger trend of corruption in government contracting processes, misuse of public resources, and the blending of business and government into one seamless mass.

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Who Pays the Price of War? Not Our Society
Posted by: armybrat8 on Jan 10, 2008 12:52 PM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
PTSD is a problem, and from a purely utilitarian (cost-benefit) standpoint costs society both money and lives. Where do we draw the line though? We have got ourselves into an ethically difficult situation here.

I am also suspicious that a drug can erase moral guilt. Maybe it will dampen the effects of PTSD - the hypervigilance, the anger, etc. But will it really erase the knowledge of what you have seen or done or know? I think not.

Also PTSD results from more than just killing people or seeing them killed. Plenty of people develop the syndrome merely from being exposed to the mortar, rocket, and small arms fire and IED attacks which normally occur in a combat zone, whether or not you are being specifically targeted.

And Beck, you have a good point. We have pawned off the moral costs of this war on a tiny percentage of the population. Everyone else goes
about their business, sipping lattes and filling up their SUVs (or suffering in poverty as the case may be) without interruption. It is only us soldiers and Marines who are MORALLY aware that killing is even done. Even when it is not us actively doing the killing (ie militants suicide bombing civilians, armed groups killing each other and civilians) all of these casualties have their beginning causation in starting this war. We soldiers are not the only ones culpable. This is a democracy. It is the responsibility of the majority that effectively voted for war.

But we are the only ones who are paying the price. Well, us and the people of Iraq, I must be quick to add.

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a new idea
Posted by: omikeo30 on Jan 10, 2008 1:33 PM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
lets try and think outside the box for a second. we can solve all our problems by bringing all our troops home and stop policing the world.

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» RE: a new idea Posted by: madmax427
» RE: a new idea Posted by: omikeo30
» Uh-Oh Posted by: Longdream
» RE: Uh-Oh Posted by: omikeo30
» Yup. Posted by: Longdream
ah...
Posted by: undrgrndgirl on Jan 10, 2008 3:25 PM   
Current rating: 4    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
soma...

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» Not a good analogy... Posted by: mjabele
» RE: Not a good analogy... Posted by: pomes
Sounds like Bush Admin and half of congress are on these drugs
Posted by: common intelligence on Jan 10, 2008 4:02 PM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Why are the troops over there?

Nuff said.

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From where do you think the word assassin comes?
Posted by: wisegalah on Jan 10, 2008 4:29 PM   
Current rating: 2    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
It comes from the arab word for marijuana, which has come into english as 'hashish'.
This is because is was supposedly used to reduce the fear in those who were to kill religious or political leaders.

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» RE: Not marijuana Posted by: pomes
When Senior Leaders Sanctify Torture and Murder in an Unjustified War
Posted by: sofla100 on Jan 10, 2008 4:44 PM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
In evaluating the level of trauma from Iraq, we have to take into account the circumstances of the war, the way it is fought and the example set by leaders. First, the circumstances. Because this is not a war for self-defense, but a war on false pretext (supposed WMD's), the "moral high-ground" is already lost. Next, you have the fact that this is an insurgency and a civil war. In such a war, nobody has uniforms nor is generally identifiable. Hence, you have to shoot first and ask questions later, or you might find you are the one shot and killed. Next, insurgencies and civil wars lend themselves to a higher degree of close hand barbarity then war from a distance. This is not a "push button" war, and the consequences are direct exposure to the killing and maiming by the soldiers. Finally, the example set. President Bush never served in the military (some fraudulent reserve unit he skipped attending to escape Vietnam does not count), but beyond that, he has tacitly and directly authorized the use of torture and "taking the gloves off." The consequences were visible at Abu Ghraib and the reports of routine torture performed by the CIA and at Guantanamo. This example morally degrades even further American soldiers. So, when it is all over, you have soldiers highly susceptible to PTSD. Only by the most absurd logic can they justify what the country and they themselves are doing in Iraq. That, along with the daily exposure to barbarity, the killing and maiming of women and children (directly and indirectly), and the fact that senior leadership sanctions torture and even murder, and this war is essentially a PTSD and suicide factory.

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Combat Mental Health
Posted by: Bob4232 on Jan 10, 2008 8:15 PM   
Current rating: 4    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
The story and comments are right on the mark. However, the reasons are not what many think.

Once upon a time our children were brain-washed in our schools to effect that war was glorious and that it is o.k. to kill for patriotic reasons. Now the schools teach that war is in-glorious. Thus, it is not surprising that when today's kids go off to war that they need new brain-washings to get them through it and on to either life or Valhalla! From the historic record it seems that military leaders have always used "spin" to get their troops to and off the battle field, so what's new under the sun?

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Yes, lets do a bit of research on propranolol hcl
Posted by: Orwell_would_weep on Jan 10, 2008 11:25 PM   
Current rating: 4    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
This med can be used for angina, hypertension, arrhythmias, tremors and vascular headaches or migraines. Adverse reactions from this medication include CNS: fatigue, lethargy, fever, vivid dreams, hallucinations, mental depression, light-headedness , dizziness, insomnia.
CV: bradycardia, hypotension, heart failure, intermittent claudication, intensification of AV block.
GI: abdominal cramping, constipation, diarrhea, nausea, vomiting.
Respiratory: bronchospasm.

Lets not be dismissive about the use / abuse of this drug.

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www.emofree.com
Posted by: Ferlie on Jan 11, 2008 12:03 AM   
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The article states that there is no cure for PTSD but there is a possible cure, or at least a number of people with documented cases of PTSD (Vietnam vets, others with extremely traumatic experiences outside of war, etc.) have had their symptoms greatly alleviated by an energy work called Emotional Freeing Technique, or EFT for short. The technique is simple and free to learn and pretty much anyone can do it. I would think that someone with the severe emotional trauma of something like war would want a professional to guide them but for the average person it's not only effective but very hard to do wrong. I've been using it for over two years now and credit it with helping me overcome a number of emotional issues- nothing remotely as bad as war experiences of any sort, but still, it's helped me get past childhood sexual abuse, among other things, much more completely and certainly more easily than talk therapy, which I did for years with only okay results despite my own hard work and that of a very talented psychologist.

EFT can seem kind of goofy and dumb but since it's free and as close to harmless as any potentially meaningful therapy can be, what is there to lose by trying it? Gary Craig, the "inventor" of this process, has apparently used it to good effect on a number of Vietnam vets.

Certainly I'd rather no one had to have these horrible experiences, and no one should have to be drugged to be able create these experiences or to try and "recover" from them. As a temporary fix to keep someone from self-destructing, sure, but long term... I don't know. It just seems wrong. Yet another way to sweep the horrors of war under a carpet.

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SSRIs used in War Theater...
Posted by: BlueBerry PickN on Jan 11, 2008 10:08 AM   
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Forced to Fight", the story of War: but SSRIs used in war theatre?
damn right they are... & its not the FIRST TIME...
Hitler's army used some serious pharmaceuticals, too. "Many of the Wehrmacht's soldiers were high on Pervitin when they went into battle..."

Its staggering to me that we perceive that comittment to madness becomes sanity in the lexicon of War.
War is madness: what are we asking of serving troops from Canada & the other CorporateWar Axis?
They didn't sign up for a CorporateWar for petrol.
What is the role of the PHARMACEUTICAL industry in Corporatized Government?

How damaged do you have to be, to be sent home?
Mentally Unfit, Forced To Fight: Potent Mixture: Zoloft & A Rifle

The military told Congress that medications aren't used to keep soldiers with serious mental illness in combat. But a Courant investigation reveals that drugs are increasingly being handed out...


~~~

Spread Love...
... but wear the Glove!


BlueBerry Pick'n
can be found @
ThisCanadian
~~~
"We, two, form a Multitude" ~ Ovid.
~~~
"Silent Freedom is Freedom Silenced"

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Storm troopers
Posted by: wrogal on Jan 11, 2008 1:31 PM   
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It has been learned that the DOD is playing with the idea of competing with drug dealers in order to turn soldiers into unthinking storm troopers bent on only one objective: KILL!!!!!

Of course, the DOD has not thought about what to do about these "killing machines" once they run out of "enemies" to dispose of, other than ship them back home in straight jackets, then turn them loose so they can kill civilians and family members and have law enforcement deal with them!

Amazingly, there were several episodes on Star Trek on this very subject where the government "improved" the human race by turning specimens into supermen/women, then didn't know what to do with them when they became "uncontrollable", other than load them on a space ship and send it to the edge of the universe! The DOD must have been watching!

SIG HEIL, BUSH!!!!!

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Spike
Posted by: unblocktheplanet on Jan 12, 2008 1:35 AM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
In a word: Ecstasy. And probably only a single, supervised dose. Propranolol doesn't come close.

Read the studies for yourself. E is pretty much harmless and has been used to treat PTSD in many cases such as African gang-rape as a byproduct of war.

Of course, that's why E is illegal. Govt wouldn't want us to be too well-adjusted!

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Medical Industrial Complex owns the US gov't.
Posted by: Reader11722 on Jan 12, 2008 7:16 AM   
Current rating: 3    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Big Pharma operates without regulation or moral compass. The gov't does not intervene as long as they receive their tax proceeds. After all, corporations and gov't are merely quid-pro-quo whorehouses sold to the highest bidder. When the gov't needs illegal wire-taps, Verizon and Sprint allow them secret rooms to listen in on calls. When Haliburton (and KBR) need more revenue, the gov't hands out no-bid contracts. When the gov't dislikes literature, Amazon and Wikipedia ban the book America Deceived (book). We The People had our gov't, our military and our healthcare sold out from beneath us.

Support Dr. Ron Paul and save us all.

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Another step to "War Made Easy"
Posted by: Ian MacLeod on Jan 12, 2008 9:15 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
THIS is why Blackwater is using people already desensitized in third-world countries, and it's why people who've already seen two or more tours are seen as more valuable. Using propranolol for therapy to prevent suicide is one thing, but a "War Drug" that allows normally nice kids to rape, torture, murder small children (all as "accidents of war", of course) and not feel anything, NO! "Check your morals at the door when you join up; we need KILLERS!". Yeah, just fucking perfect for Bush/Cheney. If Big Pharma had this drug, they could send your own son home and have him arrest your ass for "illegal thoughts" about the government, what with you belonging to an environmental group or something like that, and he'd shoot you dead if you resisted, no problem.

In the hands of therapists, after a NECESSARY war against an invader (and I have no problem with the international community - not just us - stopping a genocidal maniac), which should be the ONLY reasons war, such a drug could be a Godsend. You don't want to remove ALL guilt, either, because that's part of how we learn. When I was a young martial artist in the military and just out, I did things and reacted to things that I could not do now. I've learned to treasure differences, where before they were just "there"; some people still see people who are different as inferior. I've learned to value life even more than I did as an idealistic young man. Then I could scrape rotted corpses off walls and floors and be okay emotionally, and I decided before I got into martial arts, then again later, that if I had to kill to survive, I would. I still could, but I would feel very differently about it now. War isn't SUPPOSED to be easy. If we want to pretend to be part of a world becoming more civilized, it shouldn't EVER be "easy", but that's exactly how a drug like this would be used: for amoral robots who don't care if they live or die, and will do anything to anyone that they're ordered to.

If you don't understand, try this: for some of us, it's easier to kill a person than an animal. If I have nothing to eat and there's a critter handy I can kill, it's dinner. But a deer can't choose to be a murderer, or to beat someone to death for amusement. Some men will, and someone like that I could remove from the planet with no problem at all. I felt pretty bad, though, about having to shoot one of our own cats, and about a deer I hit with my Jeep, and I had to finish it off.

A drug like what they're talking about would be perfect for a military that would do anything at all to anyone at all. That's exactly what people like this administration would use them for. It just doesn't work well without that drug, though - it destroys kids who were raised on superheroes, scouts, and were taught right from wrong from an early age. People on a drug like this would eat enemy soldiers they killed, or even their own in an emergency. Sick, but it would work, and there are leaders who would see nothing wrong with it. Things like that are a necessary concomitant to what we're talking about. If you think an administration so concerned with cost and corporate profits wouldn't do something like that if they thought they could get away with it, think again.

We need to think really, really hard before we allow the military to use something like this. They already use some drugs routinely for fatigue, to increase alertness and reaction times. I knew from the beginning that once we started down this road, it only had one end. I suspect that someone who used a drug like that long enough might not recover his humanity at all, ever. Wouldn't that be lovely? Look up "Supersoldiers", and see what we have in development. Then wonder about what we DON'T know.

And now you can REALLY start worrying.

Ian

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What happens to them aftr the war?
Posted by: sp00n67 on Jan 12, 2008 10:48 AM   
Current rating: 4    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
The first time I smoked pot I was 18 in the USMC in combat and now I'm on disability and hears in NE. Even though I have no criminal record I'm considered a threat by the legal system. If I got caught smoking I would go to prison so this is what all our heroes can except for serving. Then the disarming Veterans act even prevents us from hunting or protecting our families and homes from real crimminal as we are considered criminal and slaves to big business. The health care will system will let us rot so they can save more money and the VA won't have to pay our pentions any longer. While our enemies are arming themselves and their economies are growing stronger we will have no defense and no heart no weapons and no heart either to fight to save these morron, were Screwed. Millionares and billionares make bad leaders as money doesn't create experience. Let's face it this system of steal all you can and if we get in we will do the same and all you poor suckers will pay the bill no matter what it cost. We need a change before some other big power country changes this country for us permenatly. Puten is getting ready to kick our ass bid time so go by a gas mask a bomb blanket and start digging your new home mother fuccccccckers as the party is just about over.

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Warnings issued with prescriptions drugs should be read and followed
Posted by: Raymonde on Jan 12, 2008 4:53 PM   
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One of the comments made on this thread says essentially that warnings issued with Rx are made by the manufacturing concern so as to avoid lawsuits.

That statement is not only misleading, its writer is making an unsafe assumption; that it is ok for anyone to not read and be aware of the warnings issued with prescription drugs. Whoever wrote that statement should immediately make an apology and make a public advisement telling everyone to read the warnings and adhere to them very strictly.

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Wasn't it Hitler
Posted by: macdon1 on Jan 12, 2008 7:30 PM   
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who medicated his troops with methamphetamine and shot up 5 times a day himself? That's all we need ...an army of fascist tweakers.

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Catch 22
Posted by: pomes on Jan 23, 2008 4:57 PM   
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Many people have made the Brave New World reference which is apropos. This topic brings another book to mind, thuogh. Joseph Heller very expertly described the line between war and sanity in his book Catch 22.

If you're going to plea insanity to try to get out of the military, you are doing a very sane thing, and are therefore not insane, which means the request is denied.

War is insanity almost by definition. It should not be made sane. To do that is to invite war into each of our houses.

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