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Health & Wellness

Barbara Ehrenreich: The Relentless Promotion of Positive Thinking Has Undermined America

By Emily Wilson, AlterNet. Posted October 10, 2009.


The author talks about how a plague of positive thinking is permeating our society, from medicine to business, and is even contributing to our financial crisis.
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When Barbara Ehrenreich went to be treated for breast cancer, she was exhorted to think positively; and when she expressed feelings of fear and anger, she was chided for being negative.

Ehrenreich, the author of 16 books, including Nickel and Dimed and Bait and Switch, which examine the blue- and white-collar job markets, took on what she sees as an epidemic of positive thinking in her new book: Bright-Sided: How the Relentless Promotion of Positive Thinking Has Undermined America.

Positive thinking is different, she says, from being cheerful or good-natured -- it's believing that the world is shaped by our wants and desires and that by focusing on the good, the bad ceases to exist.

Ehrenreich believes this has permeated our culture and that the refusal to acknowledge that bad things could happen is in some way responsible for the current financial crisis.

In her new book, Ehrenreich examines how the positive-thinking movement was started by Mary Baker Eddy, the founder of Christian Science, and an amateur metaphysician named Phineas Parkhurst Quimby in response to Calvinism; how being positive became mandatory in corporate culture; and how she thinks prosperity preachers, such as Joel Osteen of Lakewood Church in Houston encouraged a culture of debt by telling their congregations that God wants them to have a big house and a nice car.

Emily Wilson: At the beginning of the book, you talk about going to be treated for breast cancer and being told to think positively. Was that what started you thinking about this?

Barbara Ehrenreich: That was my first exposure to positive thinking as an ideology. I was just astounded and dismayed by it. Here I was in a real crisis in my life, and people were trying to market pink ribbon teddy bears to me, and where I thought I would find sort of sisterly support on the Internet, I found instead the constant exhortations to be cheerful and to embrace my disease [she laughs].

EW: What is the difference between being told to try and stay upbeat and to have a good attitude and positive thinking?

BE: I think it's a slippery slope. Once you start on how you have to face your problem with a good attitude, they start looking for justifications for that, and it became you actually get better only if you are upbeat, only if you visualize your recovery and so on.

EW: Were the doctors telling you that?

BE: The doctors don't say much, but there are books they have written, or psychologists have, trying to get in on the breast cancer business, but to my chagrin I was often encountering it from fellow sufferers. Individual women have written books, too, like my favorite, The Gift of Cancer, and it seems to be pretty ubiquitous. I wasn't finding any dissent, and when I tried to dissent on a message board, I was told to run, not walk, to therapy.

EW: You write a lot about how positive thinking is in all aspects of life. Do you think this is the most insidious about it -- this idea of a disease being your fault?

BE: I look at it with a little bit of sociological detachment. It's a brilliant system of social control. When bad things happen to people you say, "Well, it's really your attitude that has to change."

The second big place where I encountered all this was in the kind of motivational services that are offered to laid-off white-collar workers, where every networking event or seminar you get the same message about how it's really your attitude that is going to determine if you're going to get a job and probably has something to do with why you lost that last one.

You take people who have been really victimized, and I use that word advisedly, with cancer and with lay-offs from unaccountable corporations. And then you tell them, "Well, you just have to change the way you think." And that's very clever.

EW: You write about how positive thinking started with Mary Baker Eddy and Phineas Quimby and how it was a response to Calvinism.

BE: I was actually kind of a fan of Quimby. Here was a blue-collar guy, basically a skilled craftsman living in Portland, Maine, and who had a sideline of being a metaphysician. What it's all about is he was rejecting a Calvinist worldview -- that people are damned, that we're wretched sinners and that we should spend all of our time examining our souls for sins and flaws.

And he said "Hey!" [She laughs.] He understood that that worldview was making people sick. It was kind of brilliant, I thought. He was part of a larger populist health movement arising against the regular medical profession.

EW: When does this idea of positive thinking change into being what you're saying it is now?

BE: It had ceased to be seen as a healing method, although that comes back. By the time I encounter it, breast cancer has come back into the health area. But in the early 20th century there was, for the first time, scientific medicine and the beginnings of some sorts of effective treatments. That kind of closed a door for the positive-thinking movement, which then increasingly in the 20th century addressed itself to prosperity and wealth and success.


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Emily Wilson is a freelance writer and teaches basic skills at City College of San Francisco.

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Prosperity Gospel
Posted by: ohb0b on Oct 10, 2009 12:12 AM   
Current rating: 4    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
I've always had an issue with Joel Osteen and other "Prosperity Gospel" preachers.... God wants you to be rich.

What if God wants you to become the next Mother Theresa?

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» God's Balls man Posted by: Hiroak
» RE: How thick are we? Posted by: improperly_sedated
I love this!
Posted by: zola77 on Oct 10, 2009 12:28 AM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
i have been thinking this for years. The Oprah/Dr Phil/Deepak Chopra cult of positivity absolves all parties of their responsibility and/or sociopolitical reality in any situation.


The church of positivity think that's the problem with the homeless - they just dont think positive enough. If they had 'the secret' they would all rise out of their drudgery and be successful.


People dont have to analyse society, class structure and relations (yes it does exist in the US people!) and do something about it if they can dismiss people in worse situations than them as 'not working hard enough' or 'not thinking positive' etc.


It was nice to see this interview.

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Positive Thinking Is Absolutely Necessary ...
Posted by: mmckinl on Oct 10, 2009 12:27 AM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
To run the Ponzi Scheme economy.

And when that doesn't work they'll fall back on the old standbys Planned Obsolescence and Style Obsolecence ...

Watch This : The Century of the Self

Happiness Machines

The Engineering of Consent

Happiness Machines

What Barbara Ehrenreich and all of us are faced with is a bombardment of psychological messages designed to stimulate and influence our behavior in our purchasing decisions and our very philosophy of life through Corporate Media.

It's no accident that Barbara encountered a wall of intolerance when she felt angry and depressed about her health.

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» Century of the Self: Must see! Posted by: DignityForAll
RE:
Posted by: Nebris on Oct 10, 2009 1:10 AM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
"There is no doubt that healthy-mindedness is inadequate as a philosophical doctrine, because the evil facts which it refuses positively to account for are a genuine portion of reality; and they may after all be the best key to life's significance, and possibly the only openers of our eyes to the deeper levels of truth." ~William James

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» RE: ality Posted by: improperly_sedated
Why the hippies wouldn't let me in
Posted by: Perry Logan on Oct 10, 2009 2:58 AM   
Current rating: 3    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
This must be why the hippies didn't let me in. I couldn't master the art of positive thinking.

In the 1960s, the philosophy of the counterculture had a strong strain of "positive thinking" to it. But I could never relate to it, because it asked things of my psyche that it couldn't deliver.

For example, you were supposed to feel no shame about your body. The human body is beautiful and natural, etc. This was supposed to happen simply by deciding it was so.

Yea right.


Likewise, the Countercultre were invited to give up all feelings of sexual possessiveness and jealousy. Partners could share love equally, without the old hang-ups.

And yet I was sure the green-eyed monster would remain, no matter how hard I tried to be beyond such things.

Even back then, I never believed for a moment that simply deciding you didn't have a hang-up got rid of the hang-up. This particular part of the New Age philosophy always struck me as dumb.

I'm not dissing the Counterculture or the hippies. On the contrary, I think they were awesome. But I couldn't apply for full membership because I could never get the "curing the world's ills through positive thinking" philosophy to work.

It's interesting that the Counterculture was and is not really "counter" in this. Their use of the positive-thinking model is as American as apple pie.


Le Pig

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» RE: Why the hippies wouldn't let me in Posted by: Fat Man at the Buffet Line
» RE: Why the hippies wouldn't let me in Posted by: JiminSanFrancisco
» RE: Why the hippies... Posted by: Cybershaman
It is
Posted by: Fat Man at the Buffet Line on Oct 10, 2009 3:15 AM   
Current rating: 3    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Your choice in life weather to see the world in a positive or a negative light. When things go wrong as they will it does absolutely no good to sit and cry about it.. When things go wrong get up and do it again. Positive thinking can and does accomplish a LOT. But its your choice. I have spent a lot of my life blaming others, believing things that were not true about myself and being kinda miserable (and not really knowing it).. Positive thinking is what keeps us healthy. I am learning right now just how much power we actually DO possess and reality is what you make it...Positive thinking does not just make all the bad stuff go away... No not in the least, but it does help to deal with it. Bad stuff happens all the time... its not really what happens in life, but how you react..

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» RE: It is Posted by: dogeatdog
» RE: It is Posted by: richholland
» The thrid choice Posted by: Word Mix
» From the article: Posted by: nha16
» RE: It is Posted by: slywy
Positive
Posted by: kepstein7777 on Oct 10, 2009 3:15 AM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
It sounds like Ehrenreich has hit the nail on the head so far as the positive thinking philosophy goes, and how it is used to control the masses, and sell motivational books, seminars, etc.

The trouble is that positive thinking is as much an ideology as a philosophy, and is a large part of what we think makes the US better than the rest of the world. Thus, I expect Americans to defend their positive thinking tooth and nail, no matter how little it has to do with reality.

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» RE: Positive Posted by: Fat Man at the Buffet Line
» RE: Positive Posted by: susanh
» RE: Positive Posted by: kahuna_2bears
» RE: Positive Posted by: Fat Man at the Buffet Line
» RE: Positive Posted by: Basenjis
I coud not disagree more
Posted by: khaleesi on Oct 10, 2009 3:49 AM   
Current rating: 3    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
I truly believe in thinking positively no matter what the situation. The reason being twofold-
First, regardless of what happens being negative never makes anything better. Does it help to get upset when you wreck your car? No, it just makes you feel terrible. You just have to deal with the problem, and if you can control yourself and stay positive the situation is alot more pleasant. You can apply this to any event in your life. Second, everything in life- the good and the bad- is an experience. Once you can get past the idea of JUDGING an experience and you can apprecaite the experience as an experience you will be enlightened. This mentality that we must be angry to get things done or change the world is typical for the Judeo-Christian society that seeks to always think of life in its present form as less than perfect. That is why they aim to go to 'heaven'. This mindset unfortunately has tainted all of American society. For everyone who does not agree with me- forget Oprah and Dr. Phil- go read a book. It is called The Art of Happiness and it is written by His Holiness the Dalai Lama. I have compassion for all of those who are trapped in a negative state of mind. I hope your lives will be happy after reading this book.

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» Not the Rich Posted by: Hiroak
» RE: NO. YOU are missing the point. Posted by: Fat Man at the Buffet Line
» It's Not All About HOW YOU FEEL! Posted by: ProgressiveManiac
» RE: It's Not All About HOW YOU FEEL! Posted by: Fat Man at the Buffet Line
» all of this is suffering Posted by: inverse_agonist
» RE: all of this is suffering Posted by: Fat Man at the Buffet Line
» RE: all of this is suffering Posted by: inverse_agonist
Good work, Barbara
Posted by: marxalot on Oct 10, 2009 4:41 AM   
Current rating: 4    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
The reality-based approach to life is often not as pleasant as living in a happy face fantasy. But reality breaks through eventually. You know, this is essentially the Buddhist approach to living.

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and when positive thinking
Posted by: Farmertim on Oct 10, 2009 5:07 AM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
falls short...the Christian right allows you to forfit all your responsibility to God.
Don't show up on time, no prudent or measured thought, just pray on it and if you miss an appointment or what most would consider a considerate gesture in our society...oh, God had other plans for me today....said with a blank smile on their face.

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Think Pink
Posted by: bonapartist on Oct 10, 2009 5:23 AM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
The positive thinking can be a great tool to help you ride through rough spots in life. However once positive thinking stops being a tool and becomes an end to itself the problems arise.

We are already fed truckloads of positive thinking, so much in fact that it became a mantra to replace action. Majority of issues in one's life will require action, with or without positive thinking.

To resolve a problem one first must admit that there is a problem. The positive thinking culture is busy denying that there is a problem and thus the issue remains unsolved.

You can see the sample in current economic downfall, no need to implement a real reform. Just patch up and hope for the best, think positive and continue business as usual.

Scepticism, realism, rationalism, cynicism, pessimism etc are all venues of thinking that can and are useful in certain conditions. The current TV culture discarded them in favor of simplistic think pink attitude.

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Parroty
Posted by: ecofriendlynet on Oct 10, 2009 5:30 AM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
If one eats loads of crap and then thinks he or she can positive think out of being fat, that is wishful thinking. Cause and effect.

The superficial view of "Positive Thinking" is what is prevalent. Just like most Christianity is so unlike Christ. Surface stuff.

Positive Thinking is a state of heart/mind which remembrance of and reliance on our Highest Self (God, Beloved, Christ, Ezad, etc.,) through all the good and crappy times with the objective of eventual liberation from duality.

We have to do our best, cast our net, do our part. Actions and thought work together. This is obvious.

Getting a disease sucks and the mindless parroting of the "positive thinking" crowd, even worse.

A disease is shitty but also an opportunity for a lot of inner growth and compassion.

It's infinitely better to hope for the best than to fear the worst -- Meher Baba

Give up all forms of parrotry. Start practicing whatever you truly feel to be true and justly to be just. -- Meher Baba

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» RE: Parroty Posted by: Fat Man at the Buffet Line
Positive Thinking vs Positive Action
Posted by: Mimi on Oct 10, 2009 5:35 AM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
The issue is not positive versus negative thinking.

The issue is thinking versus ACTION, the delusion that "I think, therefore IT IS." That thinking something is so makes it so. It's called psychosis.

Those who take the quest for human happiness seriously recognize that taking positive ACTION to right the world's wrongs and injustices leads to authentic happiness, rather than the delusional "think it and it will happen" positive thinking Ehrenreich objects to.

I wish that Ehrenreich had built on one of her best books, Dancing in the Streets: A History of Collective Joy, and focused on the difference between collective action to secure happiness and well-being for all, versus delusional, inner individual thought processes that produce the terrifying and absurd human condition of everyone wearing smiley faces while the world heaves and burns.

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Give me negativity any day
Posted by: SekhmetsatRa on Oct 10, 2009 5:47 AM   
Current rating: 4    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
this is just a way to deny us genuine emotions, like anger, sadness and even *gasp* hatred. Don't tell me to NOT be angry about my bad decisions. I DESERVE that anger about myself. Don't tell me not to be sad I had to put my cat to sleep, my aunt had a stroke that paralyzed her whole side, or my other aunt is going blind.... I NEED to grieve over this. And don't tell me i can't hate people who have done me wrong. They deserve the contempt and loathing I feel for them. Forgiveness may be reached, but NEVER forget the betrayal. Learn from your mistakes, and don't let them medicate you into subservient happiness. Because, really, that is all happiness is, a way to make us serving class more subservient.

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» RE: Give me negativity any day Posted by: Trixietheduck
» Agreed Posted by: BlueTigress
» RE: Give me negativity any day Posted by: Fat Man at the Buffet Line
» RE: Give me negativity any day Posted by: shelley589
Positive thinking has an even dumber twin sister-
Posted by: souffrantfleur on Oct 10, 2009 5:49 AM   
Current rating: 4    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
And her name is Denial. In the US, they are conjoined twins.

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very good article!
Posted by: Trixietheduck on Oct 10, 2009 5:52 AM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
I have a dear friend who's mind is in the grip of this positive-thinking stuff. There are moments when she is absolutely terrified to express a negative thought, always has to punctuate the end of every story or conversation with, "but I'm grateful for..." or "but I know that everything is alright and the universe is going to bring me what I need..."blah blah blah. I suppose its good to be upbeat but I always sense this invisible gun pointed at her head "SAY THE WORDS AND SMILE OR ELSE." I know a few people like that. The 12-steps promote this kind of thinking, big time. Like, every bad thought you express or just think--whether it's "dammit all" or "I'm concerned that this might not turn out as I'd like"--is a karma bomb that you've just planted in your own path and it WILL to explode in your face if you don't get positive now (does my negativism trump God's plan for me?). Does anyone remember that Twilight Zone episode where the little boy is holding all the adults captive in the house because he can destroy them with his mind by just thinking something, so all the adults have to act happy and agree with him or they'll die some weird death (getting turned into a jack-in-the-box and put out in the cornfield)? Sometimes the persistent Dr. Phil & Oprah militant-gratitude stuff reminds me of that. (NO, I am not accusing them of trying to murder people by turning them into jackintheboxes, I just haven't finished my coffee yet.)

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» RE: Militant gratitude and "radical forgiveness". Posted by: Fat Man at the Buffet Line
» Thanks for the laugh! Posted by: CV
We Are A Young and Immature Nation
Posted by: drricklippin on Oct 10, 2009 6:14 AM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
The US is like a child believing that we can do anything and that the world revolves around us. We are a very young and immature "can do"-overly-optimistic nation. We suffer from way overblown hubris.

We will grow up someday

Maybe we have entered our painful but necessary adolescence?

Dr. Rick Lippin
Southampton,Pa

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» RE: We Are A Young and Immature Nation Posted by: theblackgeorgecarlin
» RE: Enough with the "Young Nation" nonsense Posted by: improperly_sedated
Mountaintop
Posted by: saquisili on Oct 10, 2009 6:19 AM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Hurrah for Barbara Ehrenreich! You've put into words what I have been wanting to express for a long time. Those around me that subscribe to the Positive Thinking ideology are critical of my critical thinking. They say I'm negative. I say objective. In Andean thought one does not occur without the other, all is paired, so negative/positive. To exclude one denies the existence of the other. Avoidance as a theory for living does not contribute to a more egalitarian society.

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There's nothing wrong with being positive
Posted by: anok on Oct 10, 2009 6:32 AM   
Current rating: 4    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Nor is there any direct correlation between being "positive" in both thoughts and actions and being ignorant, naive, or walking about with happy blinders on.

People who deal with situations by ignoring it will do that regardless of the positiveness or negativeness of their thought process.

Nor does being positive immediately equate to being nauseatingly happy or chipper. For example: One who has lost their job, and is facing a hard road ahead can think positively by simply saying "We WILL get through this." That's a positive thought, leading to a positive action. It is neither ignorant, nor blind of the facts.

Anyone can take any ideology and go too far with it. However our outlook on life, and our immediate emotions can be and are affected by how we react to them.

Ever make yourself cry by thinking about something sad? Ever get yourself out of a funk by thinking about something enjoyable, or fun?

There you have it, it's just that simple. It's not easy, just simple.

Take whatever time you need to mourn your losses, experience your anger, grief or whathaveyou and then move on. It does you no good to sit around moping about it. It also makes you the type of person that others don't want to be around much, either.

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Of course there are excesses and extremes
Posted by: chariotdrvr14 on Oct 10, 2009 6:35 AM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
I probably wouldn't have become a punk rocker in the 70's if I hadn't seen them as well.

But time has tempered my pessimism.

There's a denialism in that which isn't so much positive thinking as much as taking a leap of faith into the realm of self serving fantasy.
That doesn't mean that visualizing what you want and initiating activity to acheive is delusional.

I do remember in my early 20's I was working at a healthfood mexican food restaurant, a chain called The Good Earth and we were trying to organize an alternate food workers' union. The CEO came in and gave us this song and dance about how our serving 'healthy positive food was a service to humanity and a positive action...but that people who wanted unions were negative thinkers who weren't thinking of anyone but themselves'...something to that effect.
I walked out in the middle of that one.

Yeah, I know how new age capitalists use this to any advantage they can, for any justification they want.

And that how 'The Secret' fad... is about taking what a very old spiritual concept and selling it by focusing on selfish materialist motivations. This is my fundamental disagreement with new agers.

But I do think that there are places and instances where positive thinking is both useful and necessary. I would never embrace an illness like cancer and couldn't even imagine any reason to do so. But stressing and bemoaning the fact would never help either. You do have come to a point of acceptance with any situation before you can deal effectively with it.

Positivism...negativism... the point is in never becoming out of balance by embracing the extremes.

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Optimism Is......
Posted by: drricklippin on Oct 10, 2009 6:50 AM   
Current rating: 3    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
.... a moral imperative

Ask those who wrote about concentration camp experiences about not giving in to pessimism or hopelessness.

Of course reality tells us all the time to be pessimistic but we must rail against that and live our lives always "as if" things will be ok.

This is our obligation.

Dr. Rick Lippin
Southampton,Pa

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» So.... Posted by: BlueTigress
» RE: So.... Posted by: drricklippin
» RE: Optimism Is...... Posted by: DaBear
Religion sets this precedence
Posted by: loneswaneast on Oct 10, 2009 6:52 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Walt Disney and Religion certainly set this stage. Every Disney film teaches kids to simply "cross their fingers and wish really really hard and it will come true!!!!" sets us up for such nonsense and religion tells us to "fold your hands and pray really really hard and it will come true". Of course, when the situation stays the same, or the child dies, it is because we did not pray hard enough.

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Mind is the Builder
Posted by: Gravitas on Oct 10, 2009 6:56 AM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
As a fellow sociologist I do agree with her that the way it has been popularized and oversimplified in books like The Secret, is IS a form of social control. As she says, it is a way to blame the victim for their situations.

However, the concept that thoughts can shape outside reality is in many of the great spiritual traditions of the world. I like what the mystic Edgar Cayce said about "mind being the builder." He said thoughts create reality BUT it was far more complicated than just making out a wish list. Thoughts had to be couple with action, principles had to be lived, intentions had to be defended with acts of faith. It is hard work, not just magic wishes.

It is very sad that this essential spiritual concept has been watered down and commercialized. But it is not all or nothing. Few on this board would reject nutrition just because there are charlatans with miracle diets overstating their case. We don't need to reject a powerful tool to reshape reality just because spiritual snakeoil salesmen exist!

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» RE: Mind is the Builder Posted by: babzter
Think Realistically
Posted by: melpol on Oct 10, 2009 6:57 AM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Thinking realistically not positively is the key to wisdom. The chicken that thought positively when the fox approached would wind up in the stomach of the fox.

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» RE: Think Realistically Posted by: nha16
POSITIVE MONEY MISMANAGEMENT
Posted by: americansheep on Oct 10, 2009 7:03 AM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
I have a friend who makes a good salary in a job he hates. But he cannot manage money, due to his taste for lavish shopping and over sized, over priced houses (plural) because he keeps losing them and getting another. He's always living paycheck to paycheck, can't afford to take a vacation, his credit is shot but he always got another house, with exhorbitant interest rates. One of the big items he spends his money on is "how to get rich working at home" scams. He has spent thousands of dollars, and none of them have worked. I have told him nicely so many times that if he wants to get rich (like them) then forget their scam and create his own scam, as that is the way THEY are getting rich. Also, if he just had all that money he has spent to get rich he would be rich. It goes in one ear and out the other. Conclusion: I read some of his brochures and watched some of his videos, and they address the fact that "some of your friends (like me), and even some of your family" will be negative and that you need to get away from them. Think positive. So, they have masterfully "built-in" this scenario that they know will happen to prepare him to expect "negative" advice and ignore it.

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Somebody had to say it!
Posted by: nha16 on Oct 10, 2009 7:04 AM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Somebody had to say it, and it's only natural that that person would be Barbara Ehrenreich. Bless her, bless her, bless her...for the thousandth time, bless her.

I've always suspected a certain behind the scenes, conscious promotion of these "positive thinking" ideas as a means of control. Society needs people who see clearly and aren't afraid to confront the bad things in this world. They serve as an early warning system to the rest of the clan, and deserve respect, not ridicule. If it could be tested, I'll bet we could trace our current conundrum to the broad, conscious application of these ridiculous ideas.

I believe that this is the main reason people generally scorn those in need, and protect the wealthy in our society. They know if they frame that dollar bill and smile on it each day with positive thoughts of abundance, they too will someday draw that wealth to themselves and be protected by the same system that today victimizes them.

If we can call out this nonsense in any meaningful way, we may have a chance to recover. I hope Ehrenreich's book breaks the decades-old ice on this subject. It really could be our path back to reality.

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Fear of job loss = Negativity
Posted by: troubleinmind254 on Oct 10, 2009 7:16 AM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
This reminds me of the time when I was a temp at some company that hire only temps at there call center. The flow of incoming calls were grinding to a next to nothing and I started preparing my resume for another gig. When I advise some co-workers to do the same, I received some push-back from my fellow cube drones about "being negative all the time", "Things will get better because our boss says so". One month later were were packing our belongings (also stealing office supplies) and dropping our ID badges.

Just like the financial crisis, the wars in Irpakanistan, the rosy self-denial of our personal interactions and public policy can case more harm than good.

Whats the old cliche and correct if I'm wrong "Err of the side of caution" ?

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There's positive thinking and then there blissfully ignorant thinking.
Posted by: JenniferBedingfield on Oct 10, 2009 7:19 AM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
One such example of the latter is Obama getting the Nobel Peace Prize under the "faith based" notion that he will continue to bring "peace" all over the world when in fact he has no plans to end the wars and occupations in the Middle East and is starting new ones. That's on top of playing kissyface with AIPAC and allowing Israel to persecute the Palestinians.

Another example is the way Obama is poorly handling the economic crisis. As usual, the corporate media lies about the economy getting better when nothing could be farther from the truth. The economy getting better is an illusion. Bailing out Wall $treet has done nothing to ease the pain and suffering of homeowners who actually needed assistance. And what about slowing down the shipping of jobs overseas? There are no policies being planned on that to the best of my knowledge and the unemployment rate keeps going up and even amongst those who are still employed there are those who face more cuts in wages and/or benefits. Better for companies to slit their wrist and screw the employees and appease those crooked stockholders isn't it?

And here's my favorite example. Everyone screams about race and yet very few people acknowledge that the "Patriot" Act is the big gorilla sitting in the room. Without that bloody act, most of the racial profiling we're seeing today wouldn't exist. I don't see anything positive for minorities trying to make it through this bloody dog eat dog society when racial profiling is persecuting them the most.

We can have positive thinking but too much blissful ignorance is dangerous and the results are showing.

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How About The Secret?
Posted by: curiousdwk on Oct 10, 2009 7:19 AM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
How about all the people who are getting hooked on The Secret? It's amazing. I can't help but feel that if our educational system did a better job of teaching critical analysis, we wouldn't have so many people believing in things they shouldn't be believing. People commit violence to themselves when they believe things that are harmful to themselves.

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» RE: How About The Secret? Posted by: nha16
» RE: How About The Secret? Posted by: wrinklemomma
Can we revive Stoicism?
Posted by: stormchilde1975 on Oct 10, 2009 7:22 AM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
It's a good, old philosophy that says getting emotional about our lives undermines the freedom of our wills. The less of that, said the Stoics, the better. There's no need to stay upbeat. There's no reason to get upset, either. Just figure out what the problem is and handle it.

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» RE: Can we revive Stoicism? Posted by: improperly_sedated
A justification for blaming those less fortunate.....
Posted by: babzter on Oct 10, 2009 7:23 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Conservatives use this "positive thinking" philosophy to blame the less fortunate - "they're not working hard enough. They could make it if they really wanted to."

I remember being told "What you can conceive and believe, you will achieve." (Nightingale??) What a gross deception of real life.

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steering clear of depression
Posted by: littlepitcher on Oct 10, 2009 8:14 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
The only real justifications of the "positive thinking" fad are the recognitions of opportunity in any situation, if possible, and the avoidance of psychological depression in situations that can do little except inspire emotional traumas.

Emotions create hormonal changes. Manipulating our emotional states to keep healthy is a must. Viewing bad times as opportunities to help our fellow human sufferers helps us, as a group, improve the conditions of our race one-on-one, and as a group.

Manipulations of "positivity" by sales and customer service supervisors, and by anti-organizational goons, are just profitability moves which benefit the company and customer but do little for the non-commissioned worker.

Despite this, I've admired and read Ehrenreich for 30 years, and hope sincerely that her health improves. She might consider looking into my personal suspicion that mastectomies are the new unnecessary hysterectomy, a profit maker for misogynist medical practitioners and, with briberies of underpaid cytotechnologists, an easy way for husbands to dispose of wives, or for the system to dispose of unwanted activists.

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This positive thinking nonsense has kept us from dealing with problems
Posted by: metamind on Oct 10, 2009 8:23 AM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
If you are unemployed, it must be because you aren't competing hard enough. Pump up your positive attitude. It's not because the economic system has failed us; it's all YOUR FAULT.

This kind of thinking keeps us from changing a DYSFUNCTIONAL system. It puts all the responsibility on the individual and ignores how the system itself has failed. Only YOU can fail with this philosophy. Nobody else can do anything wrong.

The truth is that WE THE PEOPLE need to come together and change our political and economic systems. Big changes are needed and as long as people believe "it's my fault" they won't come together and change the systems.

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Research Suggests Link Between Emotions and Health
Posted by: johnyradio on Oct 10, 2009 8:38 AM   
Current rating: 4    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Health providers encourage patients to think positively because some scientific research has suggested that an optimistic attitude may contribute to better outcomes for cancer patients. Medical practitioners who "blame" the patient are doing it wrong-- obviously, that's just going to make the patient feel depressed.

"Psychological factors can predict the response to primary chemotherapy in patients with locally advanced breast cancer."
Institute of Rehabilitation, University of Hull

"Optimistic women have a lower risk of developing heart disease or dying from any cause compared to pessimistic women, according to research reported in Circulation: Journal of the American Heart Association."
University of Pittsburgh

"stress and emotion appear to have important implications for the initiation or progression of cancer, HIV, cardiovascular disease, and other illnesses."
Annual Review of Psychology

"Various psychosocial factors, particularly cancer-related concerns and depression, appear to be related to preoperative and postoperative VEGF level in patients with newly diagnosed colorectal cancer."
Academic Surgical Unit, Cancer Division, University of Hull, UK

"Relaxation training and guided imagery beneficially altered putative anti-cancer host defences during and after multimodality therapy."
United Lincolnshire Hospitals NHS Trust, United Kingdom.

"Professor Leslie Walker, a director of the Institute of Rehabilitation at Hull University, has just begun the largest ever trial into the impact of thought processes on the body's ability to fight cancer."
Three-year trial, involving 180 bowel-cancer patients.

Approaching life with optimism and confidence is not denial. As Ben Franklin said, “Expect the best. Prepare for the worst." Expecting the best does not mean closing one's eyes to reality.

It's a big stretch for Ms. E to equate her experience with cancer with the economic crisis.

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I continue to see responses that confuse the matter.
Posted by: anok on Oct 10, 2009 8:56 AM   
Current rating: 4    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Positive thinking, again, is not some blissful state of ignorance where one hides from realities. Negative thinking is not simply addressing reality. Example:

Positive thinking: "I have cancer, it sucks, I am scared. But I have a good doctor, and I will get through this."

Negative thinking: "I have cancer, I will never overcome it no matter what happens. I might as well give up and die now."

See the difference?

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thank you!
Posted by: gradlady on Oct 10, 2009 9:02 AM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Thank you, Barbara, for putting into print my thoughts on this as I too faced breast cancer recovery. It wasn't my questions and concerns about it that caused my cancer, and yet, every time I tried to express them I was informed that I needed to talk to someone or that I would only get better if I thought positively. I cried huge tears when I went for financial help and was presented a huge white teddy bear with a pink ribbon around its neck - not from sentiment, but out of frustration. I told the woman I didn't need any pink ribbons, I WAS one, and I had questions. To this day I cringe whenever I see folks going through this, and being told their recovery depends on smiling. Really? I don't think so. It depends on having coverage for treatment, and the opportunity to rage against the condition.

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» "Rage" May Be A Good Thing Posted by: johnyradio
"Positive Thinking" sometimes works as "hypnotic suggestion."
Posted by: reykr on Oct 10, 2009 9:39 AM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
There was a Frenchman named "Coué," who told people to keep saying, "Every day, in every way, I'm getting better and better." That was supposed to function as hypnotic suggestion.

Some time, around 1950, a minister named Norman Vincent Peale wrote a book titled, "The Power Of Positive Thinking."

In 1952, the Republicans had a "positive thinking" slogan about Eisenhower, their Presidential candidate that year. It was this: "I like Ike." He was nicknamed "Mr. Clean," by The Democrats, because he had no political record for them to criticize.

Adlai Stevenson, the Democratic candidate, thought the Biblical Epistles of the Apostle Paul were more relevant to Christianity than "Positive Thinking" was. Stevenson once quipped, "I find Paul appealing, and Peale appalling."

That was an example of the "contrapuntal" comments that speechwriter Ted Sorenson often put into President Kennedy's speeches. For example, in one of his speeches, Kennedy said, "We must not negotiate from fear, but we must not fear to negotiate."

My Blog's URL is:

http://reykr.livejournal.com/

Jerry Baker

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LONG OVERDUE, THANKS BARBARA
Posted by: suetiggers on Oct 10, 2009 9:56 AM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
I have for a long time suspected that women who send those super positive e-mails belong to the club of perpetuating the lie, i.e if we all just be more cheerful, positive, the world will change. How the guys on Madison Avenue and at places like Citibank must love that stuff. "Religion is the opium of the masses" ?? ....yes, but also "have a nice day".
Grumps and curmudgeons unite....we at least know what's really happening. Rome is burning and this is what has been passed to our new leader.
Hope he isn't too cheery. an old woman

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» RE: LONG OVERDUE, THANKS BARBARA Posted by: shelley589
Bravo!
Posted by: badkitty on Oct 10, 2009 10:31 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
The relentless promotion of positive thinking--ever heard your manager say, "we face critical challenges--sales are down, we have to close stores and lay off staff". Excuse me, that sounds like we have critical "problems". I am so tired of seeing language mangled to try to put a positive spin on everything. But new age corporate speak does this all the time. Never will you hear a realistic assessment of anything.

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uncertainty
Posted by: Rusty Shackleford on Oct 10, 2009 11:58 AM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Uncertainty is no crime.
There's absolutely nothing wrong with rational thinking and being right in the middle there.

Positive thinking says: I WILL get through this crisis.
Negative thinking says: I WON'T get through this crisis.

Both sides seem absolutely certain about their fate, when, in reality, neither one really KNOWS what's going to happen.

There's nothing wrong with saying:
I DON'T KNOW what's going to happen in this crisis.

People prefer to take one side or the other because there's something far more frightening than anything else to them, and that's the fact that THEY DON'T KNOW WHAT'S GOING TO HAPPEN.

They would rather live in delusion, (positive or negative), than simply admit that they don't know, and be content to let things run their course.

Positive thinking is especially abhorrent because it tends to claim that one's destiny is completely within one's own control.

Things are determined by chance and probability. On THAT, can you base your views. NOT on dead certainty, positive or negative.

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Upbeat
Posted by: willymack on Oct 10, 2009 1:04 PM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
I was really down in the dumps when a voice called out of the gloom, saying "Cheer up; things could be worse", so I cheered up, and sure enough, they got worse.
The Rodney Dangerfiels school of thought may be at work here:
Hey, I had my identity stolen last month. A week ago, the thief called begging me to take it back. No respect.
In my opinion, a change in the economic order may be happening.
The change is viewed by most of us as a threat to our lives as we know them, but who knows? It may be a BENEFICIAL change. Then again.....

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Barbara and "Another Day in Paradise"
Posted by: ranger1 on Oct 10, 2009 1:18 PM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
I've been known to take on the positive outcomes folks aka just trust us by my greeting to fellow humans...before Bruce Willis made it a saying in a movie.

People will ask me how am I doing.
My response:

"It's just another day in paradise ...except for the Bush/Obama wars, corporate malfeasance, neoliberal trade policies, lying scheming mortgage loan lenders, securitizing bankers who sold AAA rated crap to my pension plan, AAA crap converted to AAA gold by security ratings agencies, 42,000 corporate lobbyists in Washington etc, etc,,,,other than that, it's all good.

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The causes of cancer
Posted by: PaulK on Oct 10, 2009 1:54 PM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Or we can say, "What's the cause of this? How are we going to get together and do something about it?" And I come down on that side.

200 years ago 1 in 1800 people got cancer. Our children will probably reach 1 in 2 people.

The causes of cancer are related to corporations making a penny and stealing our health. The food is drained of natural nutrients and is stuffed with carcinogenic chemicals that you don't taste. The stuff under your sink is carcinogenic too. You put carcinogens on your skin.

How are we going to get together..

On the Internet of course. We're going to have to develop a system to successfully screen out most or all of the paid pro-carcinogen boiler room bloggers. That's the next step, and we're not completely stupid, you know. After that we'll organize faster and better.

..and do something about it?

I expect a general movement toward third-party non-governmental certification. Is a co-op or a company a good corporate citizen or no? The good ones band together in an economic (and somewhat political?) union and lock out the others from our community. The baddies can always go off and murder the dwindling pool of citizens that still trust them.

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SUPERSTITION/EGO=REALITY=EGO/CYNICISM or CYNICISM/EGO=REALITY=EGO/SUPERSTITION
Posted by: blurider on Oct 10, 2009 3:14 PM   
Current rating: 4    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
CHOOSE!


Have you ever watched an injured animal licking a wound and observed that it appeared in time to aid the healing? Have you thought that the animal couldn't consciously 'know' that the licking action might help? Like it or not, there's 'magic' involved. Not a 'magic' trick as we've come to think of it nor a religious epiphany but simply a part of reality that we haven't always understood. That animal and his earliest ancestors have intuitively 'known' for centuries that he was both increasing the blood flow and circulation to the injury and directing his own mental energy toward the wound and it's healing. Such 'knowledge' seems to have been passed in his DNA more than by example or 'discovery'.

While dogs have licked their wounds since pre-historic times, modern medicine has only recently accepted that our minds are capable of healing or aiding the healing of, our bodies.

As always, 'magic' is simply something we don't, yet understand.

Many years ago in pre-pubescence, I had my first experience of solving my daily, mundane problems in my dreams. At first I accepted it as mystical but certainly useful and a 'gift'. Since - many decades later, I have realized that it's just my subconscious mind working overtime while my body and my conscious mind, rest. The 'practice' works as well for the adult, more 'rational' me as it did for the young, 'mystical' me but I've come to accept that I can't control it through any rational procedure, ritual or discipline beyond mere documentation - sketching and writing notes as I begin my morning in the conscious world. There are problems that can be solved rationally during my waking hours while some problems are more difficult and may not lend themselves to any solution. Then there are those which seemingly, may be solved only by my subconscious while I sleep.

After years of 'trying' I've come to accept that I have little control except to cultivate the habits of a visionalry artist and to accept and to 'keep' through my practice. all the gifts of my dreams - some just visual material for new art, some the solution to problems that apply to other, more mundane aspects of my life - all useful and all gifts from the very edges of the realms of 'magic'.

From my experience in my reality as both a rational man who deals with the practical aspects of business and the mystical aspects of creativity, I'd have to say tha Barbara Ehrenreich is both right and wrong! She is quite right that positive thinking (magical thinking) will neither balance your checkbook nor address our economic issues. She couldn't be more correct in pointing out how some have been manipulated and misled by a kind of mass hysteria and how counterintuitive it is to mix (fake) spirituality with materialism and greed

I will grant too, that most if not all, of what she might be mistaken about, science hasn't yet discovered but all the same I'm convinced from my own experience that there exists a space in which she is very likely, very badly, mistaken!

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Ms E's Premise Is Not Legitimate -- It's Marketing
Posted by: johnyradio on Oct 10, 2009 5:17 PM   
Current rating: 3    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
it's surprising to hear this praise of negativity coming from a progressing blog-- it's usually right-wingers who spew negativity.

the comments in this thread are all over the map, because i think Ms. E's premise is not legitimate.

there's mounting scientific indication that emotions affect physical health (see my links above to research studies). which has NOTHING to do with Amway, Wall Street, or the Bible.

her position speaks neither to the Left nor to the Right, she's just attempting to rouse the emotions of both.

i'm sure she'll sell some books.

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» Positive cancer patient, eh? Posted by: Benn_Miller
» RE: NOT CALLED FOR Posted by: improperly_sedated
» A Very Weak Metaphor Posted by: johnyradio
» RE: A Very Weak Metaphor Posted by: Beck
Everything is not fine
Posted by: Angela Flynn on Oct 10, 2009 6:56 PM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Blue Window: A Christian Science Childhood by Barbara Wilson is a good expose on the harm done by irrational positive thinking. Wilson's grandmother was a remote healer. He mother went crazy after she was diagnosed with breast cancer as it was not a possibility for her to be sick. The poor woman drank Draino in an effort to kill herself rather than live with the fact that she had failed to live up to the CS faith. Her grandmother never admitted to her religious/social group that her daughter had come down with breast cancer.

This is what Ehrenreich is lamenting. In irrational positive thinking there is a disconnect with reality and then there is the corresponding lack of taking action to enact needed change. This is a corporate practice. Rather than face the harm done by business practices the strategy is to demonize/ridicule those who draw attention to and try to change them.

Everything is not fine. We are facing the most dire environmental crisis in human history. The irrational positive thinkers insist we do nothing. The rational positive thinkers are creating the change we need, but they are hindered every step of the way by the irrational positive thinkers. We need to wake them up out of their dream. It is a dream that is turning the world into a nightmare.

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Positive thinking is....
Posted by: Romantic Violence on Oct 10, 2009 7:18 PM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
positive denial...if you don't think so, look at what's been happening for the past 30 years..

FTW

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the optimism trap
Posted by: crmcvin on Oct 10, 2009 8:49 PM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
yes - agreed the point is everybody thinks they will win in the big casino called america- and it's actually wired for the banks and big boy companies. banks that set arbitrary due dates for payments then punish you with money that could be used for food and medicin to line their pockets. they should be stopped - the optimism trap keeps us from rebelling - for example -all of us should stop paying all credit card bills until they 2% interest (like our bank accounts earn) and reasonably scheduled for payments (at least 30 days a cycle) to keep paying these crooks is an act of self destruction in the name of optimism and we should ALL stop doing it today.

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» RE: the optimism trap Posted by: Romantic Violence
It is better to face an known devil that is negative than an unknown devil that is fake positive.
Posted by: Benn_Miller on Oct 11, 2009 6:50 AM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
With the former, you know what's coming and will prepare yourself. With the latter, too many shocking betrayals up close and personal.

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Pros and Cons of "Positive Thinking"
Posted by: Lily H. on Oct 11, 2009 8:41 AM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
I would like to offer perhaps an interesting view of BE's cancer experience. She outlined her ordeal in a Harper's Magazine article, entitled "Happyland", where when she was diagnosed with her cancer, she was inundated with pink ribbons, etc. and told to think happy thoughts. From what I can gather, seems BE didn't quite take to the cotton-candy environment currently surrounding the breast-cancer movement.

I speak from first-hand experience, as I too, "joined" the breast-cancer community in 2005. I was also surrounded by myriads of pink accessories, and while in the beginning, I thought it was juvenile and kind of immature. As time (and my ordeal) wore on, I started to take to some of the cute-sey items, and when I go to chemo now, I wrap a toy stuffed animal around my IV pole, so the nurses and other patients
have something funny to look at during those dreary hours.

I get the sense from her accounts that BE probably needed more personal support and wasn't seeming to get any. My hospital set me up with a wonderful support group, maybe BE needed to do that as well?
As BE spoke of her experiences with the job coach sessions, seems she just isn't a real "joiner", that is, prefers to operate solo instead. Well, if that's the case, then she shouldn't have expected the world to fall at her feet in her time of crisis.

Another perspective that she is mostly correct on in the "positive thinking" tenet is that of my ex-husband. When I met him thirty years ago, he was already drinking the Kool-Aid of positive thinking while in college working towards a business degree.
He was constantly braying that with just a little time and perseverance, he was going to graduate and secure a well-paying career in short order. While there was nothing wrong with that in the main, he had many inner personal flaws (I discovered much later) that this popular and sunshiny view tended to conceal.
It was apparent that just taking on the view of "positive thinking" became a substitute for dealing with one's own personal issues and how to maximize one's own potential based on reality, not simple bromides.

Since then, while he never achieved his imagined goals, I had to grapple with the reality of what our lives would have been if I'd stayed with him and his overactive imagination. Deciding this was definitely NOT the choice I wished for myself and our children, I chose to leave him and pick up the pieces.

What motivated me was not pure positive thinking, but that along with a healthy dose of anger at the situation I needed to change and my willingness to go the extra mile it took in doing so. At no time did I believe positive thinking alone would be sufficient, and anyone who thinks that is emotionally deficit.

After my experiences, I believe BE's views are valid, but with a disclaimer. Short-sightedness cloaked in the banner of "positive thinking" just sets one up for gross failure and a dismal outcome. Reality needs to be a part of the picture, and that includes those following "The Secret" and those Oprah-watchers clinging to her every word.

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Culture of Debt Created By Culture of Greed
Posted by: johnyradio on Oct 11, 2009 9:11 AM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
The segment of society who succumbed to unrealistic optimism are the naive home-buyers who got over their heads in debt.

The same consumers who bought into the culture of debt perpetrated by companies like General Motors (starting 100 years ago), and feel-good advertising spewed by TV.

That kind of "positive thinking" has played a significant role in our problems today, but it was birthed by a culture of greed, which Ms. E minimizes-- "You can't rule out greed and the exceeding rapid nature of transactions and globalization and all that".

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She said much the same in "This Land is Their Land"
Posted by: Parcival01 on Oct 11, 2009 9:38 AM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
I've always been an attempted believer in positive thinking, but as a concept, NOT as a theology.

The roots of the "theology" can be traced at least to the 1930s with Napolean Hill's "Think and Grow Rich." And it's been encouraged by Dale Carnagie, Norman Vincent Peale, and, these days, the "Secret" nonsense. Ehernreich eloquently commented on all of them--and a host of other motivational speakers, and the CEOs who endorse them, in "This Land Is Their Land."

I think I'll pick up this latest book too.

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What's wrong with "Realistic Thinking"?
Posted by: wtfo on Oct 11, 2009 10:05 AM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
This was an interesting article because it brought to light things that I have frequently thought about. When dealing with life's problems, I have often been chastised as being "too negative" by others when I am really simply trying to be as realistic as I can be. Why is it that we typically seem to confuse realism with pessimism?

I hope that when I finally have to come face-to-face with my mortality or (even worse) the mortality of my loved ones, I will be able to draw strength from being sentient and intelligent and, most importantly, realistic in my response.

My concern with overly-positive thinking or "just leaving the problem to God" is that it really doesn't help you too much when that's all you do and things don't get any better as a result. If your only response to serious problems is to just put on a happy face and think positive or drop on your knees and pray, then the difficult work of truly dealing with the problem at hand and planning for best AND worst-case scenarios is short-changed.

How many times have you heard of people who were faced with an imminent and highly potential end-of-life difficulty and, in spite of their positive attitude and religious convictions, ultimately lost the battle and left their family much worse off than if they had instead suddenly had their life snuffed out? When facing your possible end of life wouldn't it be better to instead focus on the REALISTIC choices and making sure that you have covered the worst case scenario just in case the best case scenario does not play out?

Many years ago I was a skydiver and, being well aware of the negative potential of a less-than-successful jump, I researched heavily into what to do when things went wrong. Interestingly, there was not too much in the research about keeping a positive attitude and very little about praying. What there WAS of interest basically centered on:

1) Realistically and honestly appraising the situation as quickly as possible
2) Determining the possible things to do to eliminate the problem at hand as quickly as possible
3) Choosing the best alternative
4) Implementing the plan immediately

Failing to do any of the above steps in the right order and within the very limited time at hand pretty much insured the worst case scenario. Even more importantly, for this problem there was only one person you could count on - yourself. And your success or failure in dealing with your problem was entirely dependent on realistically doing everything right as quickly as possible.

I no longer skydive but the lessons learned from the above mental exercise have been ingrained into my thinking. So, the only positive thinking that I now strive for is the kind that results in realistically doing what I need to do myself to fix the problem - knowing that, in spite of everything that can be done, eventually there are some problems that I simply will not be able to correct in time.

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Too much positive thinking leads to complacency
Posted by: Just Me on Oct 11, 2009 10:11 AM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
While this may be my own opinion I do think that too much positive thinking leads to complacency. People simply don't try to improve their situation/condition because they are too caught up in believing that things are "just fine" as they are so there's no need to change a thing. Further I find that people ignore the wrongs that exist and so nothing ever changes because no one accepts that there is a problem.

I have to agree that it's only those at the top that tell others to think positively since it serves as a distraction while the "haves" continue to get more.

Sure it is said that we must be upbeat and look forward to a positive outcome but in order to realize the outcome we want we have to first acknowledge that there is something wrong and then actually do something to change it.

In the workplace those who speak up about issues that need resolution are told to keep their negative comments to themeselves so as not to impact morale even if morale is already low to begin with because of the problems that exist.

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I Believe in God
Posted by: marjani on Oct 11, 2009 10:19 AM   
Current rating: 4    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
But nobody told Norman Vincent Peale or Joel Osteen or Kenneth Copeland or any of these other folks to go around preaching straight BS. This stuff takes people out of reality about the way the real world works. You can't "speak jack into existence" - what's going to be is going to be, and you don't have to think about it. It just is. Positive thinking doesn't take the place of the body's healing powers and medicine. It causes people to think they can heal themselves with their thoughts alone and that is a lie. However, if you MUST think and you must, the best thing to do is remain upbeat. Being downcast won't help, either. Just understand that positive thoughts alone don't heal.

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What about
Posted by: joseywales on Oct 11, 2009 10:29 AM   
Current rating: 3    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
the correlation between what we think and how our body responds to those thoughts? Do our bodies respond to thought with bio-chem reactions? Can you think yourself into or out of clinical depression? Is clinical depression the result of a chemical imbalance or just negative thought-ing or are both interconnected? Does prayer have a similar process? Maybe it is all of the things discussed here but are simply not yet connected/linked in a way we understand. Lots of things to consider which imho makes this topic so exciting.

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The most dangerous "positive" illusion
Posted by: daw13 on Oct 11, 2009 10:45 AM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
is that however awfully the United States beats up on its "enemies" -- little people, inconveintly demanding a place at the table, mostly -- our powers that be will prevail. The worst consequence for us who give a shit, and live on our-gang's turf, is to have to witness the trashing of others. Kind of like Billy Holiday's song, Strange Fruit. How awful what our leaders do to others. But not to us.

This is crap. The world has changed. What we do to them they will do back to us, quite effectively. It's not politically correct on the Left to view Third Worlders as other than victims. But they have become much more than merely victims. Our "positive thinking" that we can escape the fate we visit upon others, no matter how we claim to deplore it, is the most dangerous illusion we maintain.

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Religious nonsense
Posted by: nonknown101 on Oct 11, 2009 12:15 PM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
this is the basis of theism, your so-called positive thinking is the act of "lets pretend", you remember the kids game that if you pretend real hard it should come true, same exact thing!
the christian right uses this technique to shut up the opposition.
positive thinking is used to fire employees that don't believe they should be robbed by their employer, this is the begining of the come back of slavery folks, don't argue with the master or you'll be whipped, thats what this all about!!!

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Many years ago I lost a lover due to the "positive thinking
Posted by: outsideagitator on Oct 11, 2009 2:19 PM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
BS". After several years of being together my partner began to tire of constant organizing against the power structure that was busily trying to loot the middle and working class. We agreed that I should go to a shrink to see if I could change by behaviour somewhat so that I was not always so angry. I had a hell of a time finding a shrink who could understand my anger and constant organizing with labor and peace and environmental groups. The attempt was a failure and I had a rough time getting along without for a while. She finally told me that I was "like a lighting rod for trouble, whenever I showed up there was always conflict happening," Well she was right,and I had to choose between the shrink trying to get me to chill out with the organizing and my lover's desire that I cut out all the direct action against those for whom I had such anger.

though I lost that relationship, which made me sad I know I made the right decision. I feel good about my decision to keep on keeping on, to join with others to fight back, to build a vision of a better alternative and to hell with the smiley faced naysayers. Barbara is so right. The actions taken together collectively to fight social injustice, stop these senseless and cruel wars, and maybe even heal our environment are the reward, win or loose.

Joseph

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Thank you, Dr. Ehrenreich.
Posted by: zigy on Oct 11, 2009 2:58 PM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Thank you for all you have done for the "little people" like me. You are a great gift to the American people in what is left of this god-forsaken, god-damned, miserable society.

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Ah, barb, stalwart champion against the threat of straw-men invading the intellectual space...
Posted by: franklyspanking on Oct 11, 2009 4:47 PM   
Current rating: 1    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
it's believing that the world is shaped by our wants and desires and that by focusing on the good, the bad ceases to exist.

...by no other means than making sure they're all in her preferred tent o' demons.

Good luck shilling your latest propaganda!

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Can positive thinking make us sick?
Posted by: sherry on Oct 12, 2009 10:00 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
A few months ago I read John Sarno's Healing Back Pain. Dr. Sarno is dabbling in neuro-science in his analysis and treatment, though not trained in that direction. He suggests that back pain in particular, in addition to certain other pains and illnesses, may be the result of repressed emotions, specifically anger. The brain deprives oxygen to a part of the body, for instance, instead of dealing with negative emotions. The brain, because of our social indoctrination to behave well and think positively, goes to great lengths to protect itself, throwing the pain somewhere else. Sarno's treatment doesn't require confronting everyone who has done you wrong or anything remotely dangerous; it just requires you to tell your brain to grow up, so to speak.

Of special interest is the fact that people who suffer from the syndrome he describes are people who cope well.

I know the idea sounds too simplistic, and I seriously doubt it will have widespread acceptance because it's blatantly not marketable. I guess Dr. Sarno has made a bit from selling his books, but I can't see selling black ribbons to remind me to tell my brain to deal with its negative thoughts instead of pushing them off on some other part of my body. To make matters worse,as far as profit goes, he tells his patients to abandon useless medication and physical therapy too so no money there. Repressed anxiety (positive thinking) appears to be capitalistic-friendly; not so much for admitting our fears, anxieties, angers.

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"Positive Thinking" sank the Titanic
Posted by: raginghormones on Oct 12, 2009 10:08 AM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
If they would have had a few more doom-and-gloomers, then maybe they wouldn't have hit that iceberg in the first place.

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too many negative naysayers
Posted by: astralman on Oct 12, 2009 3:36 PM   
Current rating: 1    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
it seems a lot of people are missing barbara's point. critical thinking and questioning are perceived as negative traits because they make corporate exec's uncomfortable. sure there are class differences but can you find contentment in the present while working for social change? cynicism is too often mistaken for thoughtfulness lately.

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gragra, australia
Posted by: gragra on Oct 12, 2009 6:02 PM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
i was thinking of a positive response. . .

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simple, really
Posted by: gragra on Oct 12, 2009 6:25 PM   
Current rating: 4    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
i was never much impressed by the claims of any religion peddler, or the scams of the motivational geeks.

however, i have long been much encouraged by the concept of the dialectic. that is, from thesis to antithesis and hence to synthesis. the beauty of it is: it can be practised as a solitary exercise, between two people; or many.

unlike religion and/or the geeks, the dialectic does not suffer the certain impetus towards absolutism. because? it is fluid and dynamic. a synthesis can therefore lead to a new thesis.

gragra
australia

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Don't Mess with my Angst
Posted by: welshrats on Oct 12, 2009 7:59 PM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
There is a mind-body connection no doubt but a healthy dose of disgust never hurt anybody. When I see the Dalai Lama abruptly wave off, with an obvious curtness, certain New Agey cretins come to worship at his feet, I feel my chakras stretch out into perfect balance. I have a lot of stewing anger over my own situation, which has no solution, except to endure it. I went in search of Alzheimer's websites, hoping to find some kindred spirits re: familial torment and the gnawing fear that I'll soon be completely alone dealing with vicious parents and greedy family members. I was astonished by what I read. Not a single entry expressing anger,frustration or sadness. Every post spewed happy stories chirping about how taking care of their mother or father 24 hours a day was the best thing that ever happened to them. They were relentless.

I have a friend who was diagnosed with breast cancer. Her co-worker, oozing concern, said Oh honey, you brought this on yourself. How my friend kept from snatching that woman bald-headed I'll never know.

I had an acupuncturist, infected with a terminal case of New Ageism, who told me, in all seriousness, that the woman I'd just seen limp out of her office was in a car wreck months ago and severed her spine but now she's walking with a cane and getting better and better because she'd rejected Western medicine and was in a zone of bliss and blah blah woof woof. I have a best friend who is a paraplegic so, after this doctor finished her cheerful upbeat diatribe, I let loose my savage inner beast -- with a few tidbits of scientific data thrown in for flavoring. Hopefully she'll never express such ignorance on that subject again --maybe for fear of reprisals in which my reiki-like powers could be used for evil. Anyway, I sure felt better. Talk about the power of positive expression!

Joan Didion wrote a marvelous book on grief, meaning and unanswerable questions: The Year of Magical Thinking. The best book I've read on living with a parent's Alzheimer's: Death in Slow Motion by Eleanor Cooney. Not a passage of blissful ignorance to be found in either.

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President Obama wants to "look forward" rather than backward
Posted by: metamind on Oct 12, 2009 8:55 PM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Yep, it's the same idea. We're going to be positive about the future under Obama's leadership. We wouldn't want to look backwards and seek some justice, would we?

Justice is required. That's how we learn from our mistakes. If we don't investigate and prosecute the people who did evil deeds under the Bush administration ( especially 9-11 ) we will be living the lies they put into our heads.

It's a great line .... let's look to the future rather than the past. But the truth is that we need to look back and seek justice. That means some people need to go to prision.
Otherwise, we are letting them get away with evil.

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The Battle Against Perkiness‏
Posted by: welshrats on Oct 13, 2009 1:21 PM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
A huge step forward in the battle against exuberance!
New cure for the excessively chipper!

FDA approves depressant drug for the annoyingly cheerful!

Do you collect ceramic animal figurines?
Talk to people in line at the grocery store?
Participate in community theatre?
Do you organize neighborhood potlucks?
Do you tell people how cute their outfits are?

Despondex could be right for you!

This drug has been pre-approved and tested on hundreds of realtors
and kindergarten teachers

Video includes natural remedies for the gratingly upbeat including:
Following the News
Visiting Rest Homes
Thinking about how Old you are and how Little you've Accomplished
Considering Man's Impact on Nature
Interacting with Kinko's employees
White Bread
(Critics warn natural treatments can just as effectively crush soul)

http://www.theonion.com/content
/video/fda_approves_depressant_drug_for

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Try Pilates for back pain
Posted by: dbaldwin3e on Oct 13, 2009 6:39 PM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
The best cure for back pain is Pilates exercise, which centers on "core strength." In relation to the back, that means use abdominal muscles instead of making the back muscles do all the work. I am 69 and for 50 years have messed off and on with pain arising from congentially defective lumbar verterbrae. I've always thought positively about coping, and I used the exerises I was taught in physical therapy. Walking was very helpful. But recently a Pilates coach taught me how to use my abdominal muscles to help out with movement of the torso, and it has made a huge difference. To repeat a frequent theme in these comments, positive actions beat positive thoughts.

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Yes, you can! But it will be nor easy, neither quick. Take your time.
Posted by: Maxdm on Oct 14, 2009 3:03 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
I do agree with Barbara. Positive thinking can be only one of many tools we can use sometimes to react to pain. Not to simply remove grief and hide it as quickly as possible, always. If you're feeling sorry about someone or something, you can't just say "I'm happy, no matter what". You can't sweep it under the carpet. Sometimes bad things happen, so pain happens. If you simply remove it, it will get even stronger. A part of you will silently suffer deeper and deeper, while you will seek a false, temporarily, precarious happiness. And one day you will crumble. Like a critical wound which has been overlooked, will get worse and develope other terrible illnesses. Instead, it's better to take your time to face the pain, to understand why you're suffering, what are the very deep roots of that sorrow, and how to get out of that situation. Carefully, sensitively, without hurrying. And with the help of really good experts, not self-taught neighbours, greedy preachers, stern moralists or easy pills.

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Mixed Feelings
Posted by: Bytesmiths on Oct 14, 2009 10:39 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
I have tremendous respect for Ehrenreich, and agree with much of this interview, but I'm concerned about the message.

Positive thinking is an important part of my life, and I am convinced it can make good changes -- sometimes profound changes -- in anyone's life.

I would have felt better if she had talked about the "misuse" or "abuse" of positive thinking, rather than tarring the entire concept with a broad brush.

She somehow conflates "positive thinking" with the "greed is good" movement. By doing so, she falls into the trap of those she decries, because that's what they're doing, as well.

I am convinced that positive thinking can help us get what we need. But too many proponents exhort their followers to believe that it can get them whatever they want. It seems to me that America's psychotic confusion about needs and wants would have made a better topic for a book!

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don't confuse faith/hope with the discipline to face (sometimes negative) reality
Posted by: susanh on Oct 14, 2009 1:29 PM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Here is an excerpt from an article: http://youoffendmeyouoffendmyfamily.com/
how-to-survive-a-north-korean-labor-camp/ that reminded me of the problems I have with some articulations of optimism. This paradox seems true.

"But no matter how physically strong you may be, the people who survive a situation like this are always those who are psychologically strong. Surprisingly, it is the most optimistic who will have the most problems. This is a condition known as the Stockdale Paradox, named after Admiral James Stockdale, the highest-ranking American POW in Vietnam.

Stockdale said these optimists were the first ones who perished in captivity. These were the prisoners who were certain they’d be released by a specific date (say, Christmas) and when the imprisonment continued past that period, they grew more and more disheartened until they died of a “broken heart.” Here’s what Stockdale said about surviving under such conditions: “This is a very important lesson. You must never confuse faith that you will prevail in the end—which you can never afford to lose—with discipline to confront the most brutal facts of your current reality, whatever they might be.”

And that’s the paradox–that you must be able to face your stark reality, but never give up hope. I know this sounds like an impossible thing to do under these circumstances, but if you’re going to survive in a North Korean labor camp, you don’t have a choice.

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Ending Oppression - Slaves Anonymous
Posted by: A. Servant on Oct 14, 2009 4:23 PM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Take a realistic look around and see the systems of control that dominate our lives. Let's begin to take some positive action - communicate with our face-to-face neighbors, imagine how our communities could be healthier and work to transform them. The time for philosophizing on the net is past - please Join Slaves Anonymous and start a new chapter or engage in a similar endeavor to build non-oppressive communities.

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The Role of Fantasy in American Thought
Posted by: Overburdened Planet on Oct 16, 2009 5:21 PM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
A day before I saw Barbara Ehrenreich’s interview on The Colbert Report for her book “Bright-Sided,” I was discussing with someone other examples supporting my belief that fantasy plays too large a role in America and can be unhealthy and dangerous.

Barbara Ehrenreich mentioned in The Colbert Report interview that Americans have replaced genuine or reality-based empathy with the admonishment to “think positive,” a pseudoscientific path towards fantastical thinking (see “Positive Thinking Doesn’t Work”).

Americans are out of touch with reality in other ways…

American Movies and Test Audiences:
More American films portray fantasies where the hero triumphs and gets the girl than foreign films depicting death and loss. Test audiences affect how movies are made in America.

Positive Thinking Doesn’t Work:
Michael Shermer, founder of The Skeptics Society, and Editor in Chief of its magazine Skeptic, denounces positive thinking simply because the power of positive thinking did not save from the Holocaust:

Atheists, Blacks, Boy and Girl Scouts, Catholics, Communists, Czechs, Eastern Christians, Freemasons, Gypsies, Handicapped, Homosexuals, Immigrants, Jehovah’s Witnesses, Jews, Leftists, Little People, Mentally Ill, People with deformities, People with big noses, Poles, POWs, Protestants, Refugees, Resistance fighters from Belgium, France, Holland, Russians, Socialists, Spanish Republicans, Ukrainians, or Yugoslavians.

Bowling for Columbine:
Michael Moore compared the rates of divorce, unemployment, gun ownership and video game use in America against rates of gun violence in America, Canada, Germany, Australia and Japan.

I don’t recall his linking exposure rates to violence on TV and in movies and how they may contribute to actual violence but I do remember his failure to ask viewers whether they thought Americans are more susceptible or prone to fantastical thinking, which in my opinion is a compelling reason for violence in America.

If Americans are raised without an emphasis on critical thinking, would fantasy be a credible fallback plan? A sociologist I know on another forum collects responses from prisoners to determine why they committed their crimes, and the most common response is they thought they would get away with it, clearly indicating fantastical thinking. And why are more believers in federal prisons than non-believers; is there a connection between their faith and their fantasy?

Joel Osteen/Religion:
This pastor follows the Word-of-Faith movement:
“The emphasis in Word-of-Faith doctrine is all on success, prosperity, advancement, gain, health and strength. There is little compassion for those who fail to come up to these exacting standards.”

Basically, if you aren’t healthy and wealthy, you’re a sinner, or failed in the eyes of God.

I wonder what excuse is given when bad things happen to them or their followers.

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It's expecting magic that's the problem
Posted by: greenknight on Oct 18, 2009 2:46 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Nothing wrong with positive thinking - if you're realistic about it. Look for the opportunities to be found in a bad situation instead of giving up, that sort of thing.

Unfortunately, the positive thinking gurus have led people to believe that all you have to do is think positively and everything will be great. It's magical thinking, expecting your thoughts to change the world without you having to do anything.

If positive thinking leads to positive actions, it's a good thing; but if positive thinking is a substitute for action, or if optimism replaces reasonable caution, that's a very bad thing.

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