Home
Archive
Newsletters
Video
Blogs
Discuss
About
Search
Donate
Advertise

Health & Wellness

Talk to Me Like I'm 4: Why Our Health Care System Failed Us and How We Can Fix It

By J. Goodrich, AlterNet. Posted February 12, 2009.


The United States' health care system is like a patchwork quilt that we keep trying to mend when, really, we need a new one.
Advertisement
Upcoming AlterNet stories on Digg

If you could meet a genie in a bottle, free it and receive three wishes about the American health care system as your reward, what would those wishes be?

For most experts, they would be high quality, low costs and universal access: The best medical care possible with the least amount of money to the largest number of people. That, indeed, would be lovely.

Alas, genies from bottles have so far refused to help us reach all those important goals at the same time. Instead, we are stuck with all-too-human plans for fixing the ailing U.S. health care delivery system.

Those plans can be summarized as mostly pro-market or mostly pro-government: Either encourage more competition in the health care markets or supervise and regulate those markets more stringently. It helps to think of such plans as falling somewhere along a straight line where one end-point denotes perfectly unregulated ("free") markets with an almost Wild West flavor, and the other end-point denotes a system of government-owned-and-controlled ("socialized") health care provision. Where should the U.S. system place itself on such a line?

The Obama administration has a chance to make its own recommendations on that placement, although recent rumors hint at nothing much happening during 2009. Obama's campaign Web site tells us, though, that his administration has both pro-market and pro-government plans for fixing the health care system.

Given the new fashion for bipartisanship in politics, and Obama's willingness to compromise with his political opponents, I fear that the conservatives will manage to nibble away at these plans until only the market-based, competition-driven bits remain. This would be a grave mistake, because increasing competition alone will not help us out of our present dilemma of escalating costs and growing numbers of people with no health care coverage.

The reason for that lies in the very nature of health care competition. It is a very different-looking animal from the competition that proponents of "free markets" have in mind when they extol the benefits of markets: variety, innovation, high quality and low prices.

Indeed, competition in health care markets may result in higher prices and unnecessary duplication of expensive facilities. It may also consist of refusing customers who have high health care needs.

On Tomatoes and Stomach Pains

To see where the "free marketeers" go wrong in their pro-competition arguments, let us imagine the kind of market that indeed functions very well: A small farmers market, meeting every Saturday near a large city, a place where growers bring their produce for consumers to buy. It is easy at such a market to compare prices and quality, the consumers know what they plan to buy for that night's dinner, and testing the products can be arranged if desired by simple taste tests.

To check prices, all a buyer needs to do is walk around. Prices of, say, tomatoes will quickly be equalized in such a market to the lowest level at which the growers still make enough money to attend the market and the quality of tomatoes will mostly be quite good.

Now compare a visit to buy tomatoes to a medical visit, one that is caused by some unidentified stomach pain. Few of us will shop providers before deciding to use the services of one -- services that begin with an identification of the symptoms and then continue with recommendations for further action. It is as if we asked a tomato grower to tell us if we really need to eat tomatoes and how many of them to buy, often from the same grower, while all the time not truly knowing if that grower's tomatoes are any good or what we need to buy.

The potential conflict of interest this can create is obvious when translated into tomato terms. It is also the reason for the strict training and regulation of health care providers, for malpractice suits and for the self-regulation carried out by professional medical organizations. But even more importantly, it is the reason for expecting that health care providers operate in the best interest of their patients, as the patients' agents.

This, however, is a problem for your average market model, because sellers who work both as sellers and as the buyers' advisors and agents muddy up the clear rules that the two sides of the markets traditionally have.

The above parable is about lack of information: Health care consumers have a lot less of the necessary information than tomato consumers, and some of that missing information is purchased together with the recommended products.

But if some patients have trouble with such fundamental information as their own need for particular treatments, how can they judge quality information in the markets accurately? And if quality is misinterpreted by enough consumers, what do the quoted prices for various services mean? Can such a market result in lower costs and higher quality?

On Free Ice Cream, Bad Apples and Cherry-Picking

Sure, you might mutter. After all, insurance companies and employers who pay for health care have an interest in such outcomes and more time and information than your average consumer to study the medical statistics and to find the best deals for their money.


Digg!    Share on facebook   submit to reddit    Bookmark on Delicious   Stumble This  

See more stories tagged with: health, obama, health care, single-payer, free markets, health care competition

J. Goodrich is an economist. Her writing has been published in the American Prospect, Ms. Magazine and on various political Web sites. She also blogs at Echidne of the Snakes.

Liked this story? Get top stories in your inbox each week from Health and Wellness! Sign up now »


Advertisement
Advertisement

 

Comments Turn comments off sitewide Give us feedback »
Comments closed.
The comments for this story have been closed. Thank you to everyone who participated.
View:
We Need Medicare for All through HR 676 ...
Posted by: mmckinl on Feb 12, 2009 1:17 AM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
It is very simple really. There is no way that private coverage can compete with single payer Medicare for All. Their overhead will always include too many people paid too much to sort out poor risks and deny claims while they also have to add a healthy profit ...

Currently Medicare has an overhead cost of about 3% ... The private companies run between 20% to 30% to cover administration and profit. They can't compete.

Furthermore under Medicare for All records, diagnosis, treatments, pharmaceuticals and preventative care can all be standardized once outcomes are analyzed as to effectiveness saving hundreds of billions in ineffective, duplicative and error prone cases.

Medical Care is a Public Good much like the Fire Department. Everybody pays so that the help is always there for who ever needs it.

[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]

» Apples and oranges Posted by: pelican beak
» RE: Apples and oranges Posted by: rickiey
» RE: Apples and oranges Posted by: pelican beak
» RE: 3% Lets be accurate here, shall we? Posted by: Obamasupporter
Democrats want a system like Social Security
Posted by: SeattlePackedSnowandCollidedCars on Feb 12, 2009 2:51 AM   
Current rating: 1    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
That a system that means you must keep electing Democrats for them to run the darn thing thus permitly keeping them in power... before you start shouting yay... that means power over you!

Start with tort reform

then

Purge out the fraud of Medicaid/Medicare (don't pretend like it an't happening)

and how about

Get American Kids to stop taking up freaking advance basketweaving in college and lean about some medicine. Open more teaching hospitals if you have too. In Buffalo we have too many freaking hospitals for the population base but our good ole friends at AFSCME will bitch to keep them all open becuase they think money grows on trees (well then again these days it comes off a NE DC printing press)

oh and

Yes it has to be a "for profit" system. I don't just want any smuck doing lazier eye surgery with a degree from the U of Kathmandu School of VCR TV Repairman. Yea I gotta eat and if I have the latest cure for cancer or penis enhancement drug, I know that's my ticket from the Projects to the Suburbs (all right alterneters, maybe a condo high rise to cut down on the carbon footprint but you damm sure wont see me on a bus anymore)

Either way, remember the tittle on why heath care is jacked up in the US of A

[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]

Ah, contradictions!!
Posted by: talkville on Feb 12, 2009 3:52 AM   
Current rating: 4    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
In the Logic of the Constitution of the United States of America:

We the People of the United States, in Order to form a more perfect Union, establish Justice, insure domestic Tranquility, provide for the common defense, promote the general Welfare and secure the Blessings of Liberty to ourselves and our Posterity, do ordain and establish this Constitution for the United States of America. (my emphasis).

E.g.: among the express purposes of the Constitution is found the promotion of the general welfare for "we the People". This means all of us who are citizens of this country!!

In the Logic of Capitalism, on the other hand: the express and insistent purpose is to promote the particular and exclusive welfare of the Private Individual-- the capitalist (and the group of capitalists).

The Logics are fatally at odds with each other. Capitalism is inherently and expressly anti-Constitutional. Most emphatically Finance Capitalism, the current regime we now 'enjoy', the corporate-state as we now find it.

As long as the health-care system is in the hands of Finance Capital (as are a host of other Systems!!), it seems difficult if not impossible to envisage any form of delivery of health care that would address the well-being of all individual citizens of this United States. Further, it would also preclude any accomplishment of Justice and, indeed, domestic Tranquility!!

Yup, we sure do need a new one. Health is certainly not one of those areas that fit well or at all in the economic theories of Mr A Smith with regard to Choice and Supply and Demand. His theories do not address the promotion of any general needs -- only the needs of very particular private individuals who, of course, have the means to control and manage their destinies. At immense general Cost!

[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]

I'm sorry but most of Congress and the White House don't support single payer health care.
Posted by: Jennifer Bedingfield on Feb 12, 2009 3:58 AM   
Current rating: 4    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
The Obamabots would never want to tell you that Barry supported it until he became US Senator and then opposed it since. As for Congress, I applaud anyone who supports HR 676 and would write them a letter thanking them and begging them to go independent because their party treats them like shit. It's pathetic that the phony "stimulus" package which does nothing for those who really need it but is more of a tax cuts for the wealthy and corporate elite and filled with wasteful spending on aesthetics more than repairing and maintaining the country's infrastructure is getting rushed at while HR 676 and Ron Paul's attempts to undo the ban on Cannabis are being forced on to the backburner ! Besides, they'd much rather spend on war and spoonfeeding Wall $treet than they would providing single payer health care for all.

[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]

MEDICAL FASCISM MONOPOLY
Posted by: HANGTRAITORS on Feb 12, 2009 4:41 AM   
Current rating: 1    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
http://www.whale.to/a/medical_mafia.html

[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]

Short Sighted Profiteers
Posted by: Purple Girl on Feb 12, 2009 5:19 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Complacency and complicity with the Shortsighted healthcare insurance Corps has lead our country to near the Top of the list, for Infant mortality rates, for costs.
Insurance corps get US both ways- charging outrageous premiums for coverage and charging Docs outrageous malpractice insurance
Not sure the health insurance folks have realized your fellow Corp Golfing buddies are trying to get rid of paying for Worker healthcare.Oh they got your back buddy, but their trying to stick a knife in it.
Health insurance corps had better start working to assure Workers/citizens are able to afford healthcare, otherwise they will go the way of the dinosaur. Health insurers should be pushing for this stimulus bill, and good paying jobs, to assure enough workers and small business continue to have enough money to buy their products.At the very least they should be working with the gov't to assure they are part of the healthcare solution, not the main problem- we could go to Gov't single payer, and they will have nothing

[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]

The single solution: Single-Payer
Posted by: bandz on Feb 12, 2009 6:13 AM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
There is only one real solution to our broken healthcare system. We MUST enact a comprehensive, universal, national, single-payer, not-for-profit healthcare system. Call it "medicare for all, if you like. HR 676 is one way. After years of intimidation by false and mistaken fear of the "socialized medicine" bogeyman, and fear-driven, weak-kneed compromises like Hillary Clinton's confused, and overly complicated efffort in 1993-4, the public is now ready to do what needs to be done. We can only urge our elected representatives and their advisors to [for once] do what is RIGHT instead of what they timidly believe to be expedient. -- bandz

[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]

Seems to suggest that we have inefficient health care delivery...
Posted by: ABetterFuture on Feb 12, 2009 6:21 AM   
Current rating: 1    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
...because of significant numbers amongst us who are are uneducated and/or unlucky.

Those who are lucky have access to good health care and employer-covered group insurance at a still-affordable price.

I used to play poker quite a bit, and among the six or eight folks playing with a $20 buy-in, I'd win the pot two or three times per week. Was it luck, or did it have something to do with me playing with chronically sleep-deprived Marines deployed with me?

Maybe a bit of both, eh? At any rate, I'm not lucky enough to trust my health care to good fortune, though the author may envision health care delivery a flip of the coin. It's a very silly way to begin an argument over the needed reforms.

The author might as well have compared health care to tomatoes.

[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]

RE: Health Care
Posted by: PDJane on Feb 12, 2009 6:55 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
That's possible. Unlikely, but possible. The advantage of building a system from scratch is the ability to add COLA and other forms of compensation, and it will even the playing field so that most are well paid.

The MD's who talk about less money, however, are also failing to take into account the cost of malpractice insurance. The reason that malpractice awards here are cheaper doesn't have to do with government limits. It has to do with the fact that awards for malpractice don't come with the cost of lifetime medical costs under a system that refuses to cover pre-existing conditions. That is one of the main advantages of single-payer health care.

[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]

RE: Health Care
Posted by: Bliss Doubt on Feb 12, 2009 9:32 AM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
"We fear that universal health care will make jobs in health care far less attractive on ALL levels from CNAs all the way up to MD's themselves and everything in between."

What is your rationale for this fear? I don't understand at all. Talk to me like I'm 4.

[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]

Don't click on that link (IDENTITY THEFT!)
Posted by: GuitarBill on Feb 12, 2009 9:33 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
This asshole is not trying to protect your privacy; he's trying to steal your identity.

If you click on his "Privacy Center" hyperlink, the server the link points to will install a keylogger on your computer, which is used to steal your credit card number, SSN, etc.

Please, report the comment to Alternet's staff.

[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]

What some call capitalism
Posted by: TexasCowboy on Feb 12, 2009 6:33 AM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
I suggest it is health care protectionism. The same Wall Street principles have been/are being applied by huge health care companies who put profits over health. There is little overisght, many people who cannot pay are denied basic health services, hospitals now demand payment up front and for those without health insurance they are expected to pay more for the same services as those fortunate to have health insurance. As with prescription drugs, government intervened to negotiate prices for the VA, but they denied the same to average Americans as the government protected drug companies profits. Just as Wall Street CEOs don't 'get it' as America's economy tanks, neither do politicians and health care companies 'get it'. Profits over the welfare of Americans demonstrates the main reason universal health care is a necessity. Americans cannot trust Wall Street and we sure cannot trust the health care industry to do the right thing either. As the cost of health insurance continues to skyrocket in the next few years only politicians and Wall Street will be able to afford it as large corporations begin passing on huge costs to workers or stop providing health insurance all together. No wonder more and more Americans are going to other countries for excellent health care procedures and paying half of what US health companies cost. The implosion of the health industry in the US is inevitable.

[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]

Hybrid systems cost.
Posted by: PDJane on Feb 12, 2009 6:49 AM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
They cost more than a single payer system; the government ends up picking up the extra amounts. They have found this in Australia, among other places.

Single-payer is the way to go; anytime you have the private sector involved, costs skyrocket. There is a fallacy in claiming the private sector is more efficient. They aren't.

[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]

» RE: Hybrid systems cost. Posted by: richholland
We the people.......
Posted by: Spiritgirl on Feb 12, 2009 9:20 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
The logic of the "free-market" should now be evident to all - it aint free, at least to the 90% of working Americans! Why is it that people don't believe that the government should set rules, regulations, and yes price controls! The idea that "health care" should be "for profit" flies in the face of the "moral turpitude" to which we all should believe in!

Should not the son of the gas station attendant have the same quality of, and access to care that the CEO's of our failed banking system have! At what point are we as a society not responsible to and for one another? While I realize that over the years Americans have allowed themselves to be brain-washed into believing that "I the individual is more important than we the society", but as this economic crisis has affected not just individuals - but communities - this notion should have been shot down along with that "laissez-faire" mentality!

The idea that the government is supposed to be responsible to, and accountable to the corporation or the rich is a notion that was past it's time during the last Great Depression! The Constitution states that this is a government of the people, by the people for the people! As Americans we have allowed ourselves to buy into ideas that have corrupted our collective sense of who we are, why we are here, and what we have allowed to be done against US as a nation, by a small, powerful, greedy group of elites! Power will not concede anything without a demand - the time is now - do you have the wherewithal to step up to the plate!!!

[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]

From a four year old perspective
Posted by: the director on Feb 12, 2009 9:10 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
A four year old perspective

We are what we eat, and some of us four year olds eat only what we want.

The words “We the People” means us. The rights for life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness are ours to claim if we remember that our our body is our responsibility.

The cost of health care would be mute if we were healthier. If health insurance is like automobile insurance then it is supposed to cover our stupidity, how stupid is it to poison our bodies, daily because we want to.

Educating our selves is a must. Catastrophic only insurance is out there, you pay for all doctor visits and meds and if for some reason you shut down your heart with clogged arteries. Arteries you clogged by eating the refined food of our easy living ways.

Have you ever considered that you have been poisoned by omission?
The minerals our bodies have been lacking since the 1930s and the complete breaking of the sulfur cycle in 1954 with the mandating of the use of chemical fertilizers.

Do you eat unprocessed foods?

Do you drink pure water? Or do you drink water with chlorine and fluoride added for “purity.” Both are poisons.

Do you send any time in the sun or observing unfiltered sunlight?

Do you walk or do some other form of exercise which you enjoy?

Do you sleep and dream every night?

If you answered yes to three of the four you may not need “health care insurance.” If you consider who gets paid it is actually Doctor and Hospital payment insurance. The doctors and the hospitals are the conflict of interest here, the more they do the more they get paid one Q tip at a time.
There is something we consumers of modern health care technology can do to reduce our need for these expensive and oft times ineffective medical treatments.

We can demand “no more chemicals on our soil ( chemical
Fertilizers ) no chemicals in our water, there are ways to purify water without adding deadly poison to our water supply,. Fluoride is a by product of the aluminum industry and is very toxic even to our teeth.
No chemicals added to our food especially preservatives which preserve us as well. Buy local eat local.
And no chemicals in our air. This means we must stop burning cheap fossil fuels now before it is too late. James J. McCarthy Ph.D. has stated that we may have only four years, the length of Mr. Obama’s term to begin the reverse the death of our breathable atmosphere.
The industrial revolution’s love for cheap fossils fuels must end now.
We have the technology to make the transition but we the people must remember that selfish four year olds don’t always understand the consequences of eating poisons.

Our health is our responsibility, ill health is not Karma it is stupidity.

Patrick McGean
Director
Body Human Project

[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]

Bill
Posted by: mycuz on Feb 12, 2009 9:34 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
I keep hearing about reforming our health care, and what they are really talking about is universal health care. I guess the reason they don't state that is they don't want to be compared to a socialist society. The real reform in our health care system is to start with reforming the FDA. The FDA has been complicit in keeping low cost products from the market while approving high cost toxic drugs that have impacted health care costs. The evidence of this is the over 100,000 deaths a year and over a million emergency room visits from prescription drugs. Just estimate the cost of this to our health care system.

[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]

You should talk to my conservative folks out here in WY about single payer.
Posted by: WYGunston on Feb 12, 2009 10:41 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
They'll call it "Satan Care" or "socialized medicine" and go bonkers with their self-righteous attitudes. I would like to see some better articles on training us to convince one another that single payer is the way. Until that happens, fewer Americans will be calling their reps up to support it and we'll be in this mess again and again.

[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]

All I wanna do is move to CuhNAYduh but al they let me have is this damned T-shirt
Posted by: DaBear on Feb 12, 2009 1:21 PM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
I would kill to live in Canada right now.

With all the hope-change going on 'round here, it'll be "bend over and hope you don't get sick..." like it is now.. only worse, like you're on crack while you bend over and don't get sick, while rich people urinate on us lowers... and we all gonna hafta smile nice at the missus and massa too beecuz dey don't wanna see no po folk now, hear.

We are so very screw-ed.

[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]

In East Tennessee - Bredesen's state -
Posted by: tmullins on Feb 12, 2009 4:40 PM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
See what they deem, defend and support as THE ACCEPTABLE STANDARDS OF HEALTH CARE really are. Nothing at all what is being advertised. Profit care comes before Patient care. http://www.wisecountyissues.com

[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]

Forgive me
Posted by: linecrosser on Feb 12, 2009 6:34 PM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
It's late and I didn't read the whole post or any of the comments, if I'm repeating someone else, just consider this as me agreeing with them. If not please promote this line of thinking, a single payer universal system would have a positive ripple effect in other areas of the insurance industry, positive for the consumer. When the cost of medical expenses are removed from other types of insurance their cost to consumers should go down also. For example, auto insurance wouldn't need to include medical cost, same effect for home owners insurance, workers comp., business liability, on and on. Oh sure, you could still be held responsible for other aspects like pain and suffering, lost wages, criminal charges,ect. But the medical bills won't be part of a claim. Might also put some lawyers out of work too. Pass it on.

[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]

A modest proposal...
Posted by: GnuSense on Feb 14, 2009 11:48 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
As linked Ronald Reagan pointed out, socialized medicine will lead directly to totalitarianism. I say, progressives should make common cause with Repugs and abolish Medicare. Let all these expensive older folks pay for their own medical care out of pocket. They won't be able to afford insurance given their high likelihood of actually needing care. And if they can't afford their medicines, well, time to cash in all the wealth they've hoarded over a life time, now that the kids have left the nest. After all, the oldsters were the only age bracket to vote for McCain. They like free enterprise, I say we give them a taste of it.

My mother-in-law in Idaho worked as a greeter at Mallwart until she was 65, standing all day on arthritic legs, forcing smiles while in pain, just so she could afford medical care for her diabetes, etc. Now that she has medicare she opposes extension of the program to the rest of us because it would be too expensive.

My guess is that given the high elderly propensity to vote, we'd have single payer health care and a system of free public hospitals for everyone within about 6 months if that was the price we demanded to cover senior citizens, as well.

[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]

Money money money...
Posted by: madhypnotist on Feb 16, 2009 1:34 PM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Yes...level the playing field for doctors... so we lessen the number of doctors and the quality. Then.. continue covering free of charge illegals that dont put money into the system ( 13 million a year in costs just in CA ) And cause adocs to have enormous bills for insurance to cover a huge number of ridiculous malpractice claims...

Toss illegals... minimize lawsuits...and clean up health insurance...then youll have a path

[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]

» RE: Money money money... Posted by: anneliese-nyc
  • AlterNetYour turn

Support AlterNet
Do you value the information you're getting from AlterNet? Please show your support with a tax-deductible donation.


Feedback
Tell us how we're doing.

Advertisement
Advertisement