COMMENTS: 96
Just How Secure Is Your Employer-Based Health Insurance?
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Many workers believe that if they hold onto their job, their insurance is safe. Professionals with jobs near the top of the occupational ladder are especially likely to assume that their employer is not going to cut their coverage. That may well have been true in the 1990s, when the job market was tight -- but not today.
The EPI report shows that in just the first six years of this century, the share of U.S. workers with employer-provided health insurance (EPHI) fell from 51.1 percent to 48.8 percent. Moreover, workers in white-collar occupations -- including executives, managers and workers in professional specialties -- were just as likely as blue-collar workers to lose their safety net.
Perhaps this shouldn't come as a surprise, since employers typically pay a much larger share of premiums for higher-income employees. So as insurance premiums soar (up 78 percent since 2001), employers are beginning to chafe under the very costly burden of providing first-class benefits to white-collar employees. (Insurance premiums rose "only" 6.1 percent in 2007, but going forward, experts expect sharper increases because the cost of medical technology continues to skyrocket).
Most employers will just shift more costs to employees in the form of higher co-pays and deductibles. But some will decide that they cannot continue to offer insurance.
"No one is immune to the slow unraveling of the employer-based health insurance system," warns Heidi Shierholz, EPI economist and co-author, with Jared Bernstein, of the report "A Decade of Decline: The Erosion of Employer-Provided Health Care in the United States and California, 1995-2006."
"This dramatic loss of employer-provided health insurance since 2000 is not simply driven by the loss of high-quality jobs, such as those in the manufacturing sector," the report observes. "Rather, it is caused by the significant decline in employers providing coverage within existing jobs across the board. The burden of these employer cuts is not carried by part-time or marginal workers. Rather, the most dramatic loss is among workers with the strongest connection to the labor force."
Note, for example, the startling declines, from 2000 to 2006, in the share of workers covered by EPHI as shown in the bottom half of the table below (click for larger version). At the top of the job ladder, in the first three occupations listed, the percentage of executives, professionals and technicians with employer-based coverage fell by over 3 percent to 5.6 percent.
The top half of the table below shows what percentage of workers are employed in various occupations; the bottom half reveals what percentage in each occupation have employer-provided health insurance.
Click below to view larger table.

Drilling a little deeper, the bottom half of the table below tells you more about the people who lost their insurance. For example, from 1995 to 2006, workers with a college degree were just as likely to lose their EPHI as those who didn't have a degree. Meanwhile, from 2000-2006 the share of 45- to 54-year-old workers with EPHI -- which includes many people who are most likely to need health care -- fell by a fat 4 percent. (The small dip in the share of those over 55 with employer-based insurance is due to the fact that many people in this age group retire or partially retire, the report explains).

"EPHI is disappearing across the entire age and education spectrum, including prime-age workers and those with college degrees," the report's authors note. "These findings show that health insecurity is now a broadly shared American experience.
"As a consequence," they say, "the solution requires a broadly shared approach. The erosion of the employer-based system, with losses accumulating in even high-end sectors, along with the critical need to control healthcare costs, indicates that the provision of coverage needs to be at least partly 'taken out of the market.'"
As employers back out of the benefits business, individuals who try to get insurance on their own will discover just how expensive it is. Rates vary by state, but family coverage in a state like Virginia can cost as much as $24,000 a year.
This is why, in the very near future, "we will need 'universal programs 'that pool risk across large populations," Bernstein and Shierholz advise. Anyone who doesn't have EPHI (or doesn't like/cannot afford the EPHI that they have) could join these groups. In addition, if universal insurance is going to cover everyone at an affordable price -- even if they are sick -- the authors conclude that we will have to "mandate coverage, with subsidies for those unable to meet the mandate."
Although an individual mandate requiring that everyone join an insurance pool is not a popular concept, the report's authors are correct. Note that they are economists -- not politicians. And while economists can be dreary, the nice thing is that they are not worried about whether you will vote for them. And therefore, rather than telling people what they want to hear, they tend to address the reality of the numbers. Even better, these are excellent economists (I know Bernstein). So, not only are they confronting the numbers, they truly understand the numbers.
Unless a mandate requires that everyone have insurance, some young, healthy people would wait until they became sick to join a pool, expecting people who had been paying premiums into that program for years to now cover them. If that happened, ultimately only the sick and the elderly would buy insurance -- and prices would levitate to a point that virtually no one could afford it. If we are going to have a mandate, however, we have to provide adequate subsidies on a sliding scale for those who cannot afford the coverage.
How do we do that? This brings me back to the "basics" of healthcare spending, a series that I've been doing over the past few months, showing where our healthcare dollars are going -- and where we might pare waste, while pushing back against healthcare manufacturers who are gouging America.
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Comments are closed-
Posted by: mmckinl on Apr 23, 2008 12:19 AM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
We need politicians, and I guess authors, with the guts to do what is right, get rid of the overhead and profit motive for all these health insurance companies. We already have the template and the infrastructure could easily be ramped up : Medicare for All ...
This article does NOT pass the smell test. Compromise, compromise, compromise ,,, is this article really on the Alternet Website ?
We as Progressives and Liberals need to demand what is right, mandates aren't and coverage for everybody is.
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» RE: We Need Medicare for All ... Not a Mandate ...
Posted by: Richard House
» RE: We Need Medicare for All ... Not a Mandate ...
Posted by: Richard House
» RE: We Need Medicare for All ... Not a Mandate ...
Posted by: B. Spoon
» FORCED into?
Posted by: B. Spoon
» Stop talking around the solution...
Posted by: ordaj
» RE:Governments are instituted among men
Posted by: solrev
» RE: We Need Medicare for All ... Not a Mandate ...
Posted by: wbblack
» RE: We Need Medicare for All ... Not a Mandate ...
Posted by: JSquercia
» RE: We Need Medicare for All ... Not a Mandate ...
Posted by: maggiem
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Posted by: HeKnew on Apr 23, 2008 12:49 AM
Current rating: 1 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
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» Sadly, when we have access to direct democracy, we use it
Posted by: Raymond Emerson
» RE: Sadly, when we have access to direct democracy, we use it
Posted by: war_on_tara
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Posted by: NoPCZone on Apr 23, 2008 3:52 AM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Despite polling that showed Edwards easily defeating ANY Republican, the DLC crowd and sheeple in Iowa and New Hampshire ignored him. Now we see McCain polling better and better against two greenhorn Senators that would be among the least experienced Presidents ever elected in the modern era.
Obama and Clinton will give you platitudes. Kucinich and Edwards would have brought home the bacon on healthcare. I hope those of you who put us in this spot are happy.
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» RE: To The Celebutards, Clintonistas & Oprah Voters
Posted by: wolfgangmo75
» We're OVERPAYING for health coverage
Posted by: B. Spoon
» I NEVER DID GET A CHANCE TO VOTE FOR KUCINICH. THE POWER
Posted by: Raymond Emerson
» RE: To The Celebutards, Clintonistas & Oprah Voters
Posted by: wireup
» RE: To The Celebutards, Clintonistas & Oprah Voters
Posted by: e rice
» RE: To The Celebutards, Clintonistas & Oprah Voters
Posted by: anneliese-nyc
» RE: To The Celebutards, Clintonistas & Oprah Voters
Posted by: maggiem
» Mis-education key to non-reform
Posted by: B. Spoon
» RE: To The Celebutards, Clintonistas & Oprah Voters
Posted by: Quannah
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Posted by: Raymond Emerson on Apr 23, 2008 3:53 AM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Anybody that wants to keep private insurance would be free to do so. Those who can't or don't want to would use a cost free version of medicare. For years the wealthy have sloshed around the world hunting the best medical care. The poor did without or received partial treatment and often died unnecessarily. They still do.
There is a great difference between 'rich man's medicine' and poor man's medicine. There are hospitals, there are clinics, and there are doctors that accept only cash. In this era that rules out the middle class.
When a poor man needs a heart transplant his chances aren't good. The rich can shuttle around the world until they get one. There is every reason to believe that a thriving black market exists for all types of transplants.
National health isn't going to cure or stop this 'black market'. But it is going to prevent the need for some of it. For reasons that are really poorly understood, the wealthy live shorter lives in countries with poor medical care. The theory is that countries with poor health care have higher overall stress rates and that these rates take a toll on all.
The issue in this article of whether the business world should continue to provide healthe insurance. Is it just possible that employers did the insurance to tie their employees to them. We all know the stories of the "company store". Is it just possible that this is just an extention of the old company store story? How many people have stayed on jobs that they hated because they couldn't afford to be without the health insurance the job offered. To me it appears to create a form of involuntary servitude.
I'm willing to assert that national health will also improve individual freedom. I think that the argument might stand up under scrutiny.
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» national health
Posted by: e rice
» RE: THE INSURANCE COMPANIES ARE TRYING THEIR BEST TO FILL THE
Posted by: anneliese-nyc
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Posted by: willie.horton on Apr 23, 2008 4:02 AM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
If we try to create a "mandate" for employers to provide health care, (at least) three things will ensure failure:
--The smallest employers will be exempted from the mandate.
--The self-employed (including 1099 consultants) will be excluded from the mandate.
--The mandated minimum coverage will be all that employers offer; out-of-pocket costs will rise, and swiftly offset any savings the employees might see.
Medicare already avoids all three of these pitfalls: every employer is covered, the self-employed already pay the tax, and its coverage limits are set by government instead of for-profit insurance companies.
Three things to make it happen:
--Eliminate the "income cap" over which taxes are not collected.
--Extend the coverage to birth for anyone with a Social Security number.
--Increase the Medicare payroll tax to cover the costs.
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» RE: Medicare from Birth
Posted by: bobgalli
» RE: Medicare from Birth
Posted by: CatDad
» RE: Tax
Posted by: solrev
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Posted by: Sushi on Apr 23, 2008 4:44 AM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Take the profit out of health insurance and the tax might be quite affordable.
Ya think I might start getting 'bitter' about paying $4 for a gallon of gas so I can get to work to make money to pay $4/gallon for of milk?
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» Not might, would...
Posted by: B. Spoon
» RE: Insurance rates vs. taxes
Posted by: billybookworm
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Posted by: wireup on Apr 23, 2008 6:54 AM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
It's simply mind-boggling to think that we can't do this very simple thing. We can put people on the moon. We can develop complex technology to solve problems. We can find solutions to every sort of question.
But find a solution to health care of all? This is too complex to solve? Somehow, I don't think so.
The problem is the insurance companies and politicians who refuse to pass laws MANDATING public financing of elections. No. Politicians PREFER to take money from corporations and since insurance companies are part of that equation we don't have national health care.
It's truly stomach-turning that politicians put themselves before what is good for the country. May they all go to the devil!
What the hell is WRONG with the citizens of this country? Are they truly nothing more than sheep?
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Posted by: SekhmetsatRa on Apr 23, 2008 6:59 AM
Current rating: 1 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
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» RE: Have any of you EVER been on Medicare/Medicaid?
Posted by: drich
» Have you ever been denied coverage...
Posted by: B. Spoon
» RE: Have you ever been denied coverage...
Posted by: SekhmetsatRa
» Health insurers have NO mercy
Posted by: B. Spoon
» RE: Health insurers have NO mercy
Posted by: john mont
» RE: Have any of you EVER been on Medicare/Medicaid?
Posted by: notinKansas
» RE: Have any of you EVER been on Medicare/Medicaid?
Posted by: SekhmetsatRa
» You are really confused...
Posted by: B. Spoon
» RE: You are really confused...
Posted by: SekhmetsatRa
» SSI DISABILITY is different from SSI
Posted by: B. Spoon
» RE: SSI DISABILITY is different from SSI
Posted by: Quannah
» RE: Have any of you EVER been on Medicare/Medicaid?
Posted by: Quannah
» Better than many have now
Posted by: wizardofoz
» RE: Have any of you EVER been on Medicare/Medicaid?
Posted by: wolfgangmo75
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Posted by: mnlefty on Apr 23, 2008 6:59 AM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
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» canada and france,
Posted by: e rice
» Oh, the horrors of universal single payer health care!
Posted by: GeorgiaBlue
» RE: Oh, the horrors of universal single payer health care!
Posted by: CatDad
» RE: does this author work for the clinton campaign?
Posted by: maggiem
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Posted by: LeeAnnG on Apr 23, 2008 7:00 AM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Rather than having everyone join some kind of universal coverage that benefits insurance companies, wouldn't it be great if everyone refused coverage? I know it's an absolutely crazy idea, because people (like me) who actually have coverage are not going to refuse to use it. It's just a thought that's been rattling around in my old brain for awhile now. Maybe someday, a real leader - which I am most certainly not - will appear and rally people to the idea of an "insurance sit-out."
The "health care" industry has us all in a huge bind, and they know it. Perhaps the rising gas prices, along with the outrageous oil company profits, out-of-control rising insurance and health care costs, food prices, and the other costs of living that are putting American workers on the edge of poverty will finally put us over the edge. It feels like a revolution of some kind is coming, and I sincerely hope it is nonviolent and beneficial when it does.
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» RE: Universal refusal
Posted by: dayenta
» RE: the revolution of 2012
Posted by: solrev
» How about everyone take the cost of
Posted by: B. Spoon
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Posted by: GrannyBgood on Apr 23, 2008 7:57 AM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Yesterday here in Flaaa, the gas just went up 10 cents in one day!
Having half a tank left in my gas-economical Subaru, I quipped to the cashier at the convenience store,
" I'm just hoping maybe we'll have a revolution before I have to fill up again!"
..to which there was hearty agreement all around!
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» RE: Revolution
Posted by: badkitty
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Posted by: cyr3n on Apr 23, 2008 8:50 AM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
// worked in a municipal insurance company in NJ -- without healthcare.
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» RE: Young women don't get EPHI either
Posted by: maggiem
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Posted by: drricklippin on Apr 23, 2008 10:24 AM
Current rating: 3 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Completely agree with premise we must reduce unnecessary costs driven by health care providers/industry greed. Two salient questions must be asked-
- does the test/procedure/treatment work?(efficacy)
- is the test/procedure/treatment safe?(safety)
Seems pretty basic but perverse economic incentives in US Health Care model have led us back to the basics or to the brink?
For some real dramatic savings though see what Robin Hanson writes about for CATO.
Dr. Rick Lippin
Southampton,Pa
http://medicalcrises.blogspot.com
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» RE:Reduce Unnecessary Health Care Costs - Profit and Executive Salaries
Posted by: mmckinl
» Sounds Good To Me- But....
Posted by: drricklippin
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Posted by: anneliese-nyc on Apr 23, 2008 10:27 AM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
I do not know if the real problem is that most citizens are sheeple . Sure , a majority are .No argument there . But as I stand on the train and I watch people , most are engrossed in texting, cell phone use ,laptops, Ipods ,romance novels...etc .Real connection between people is broken .
ALSO, there are too many people who are just involved with those only of their religion, race , location with no sense of greater community let alone actually belonging to a country . Too much media and too much "me & mine".
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» RE: We are too fragmented to be cohesive at this point.
Posted by: mmckinl
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Posted by: PakiBoy on Apr 23, 2008 11:44 AM
Current rating: 4 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
They will squable over trivial issues like who wears flag lapel pins and wedge issues like gay marriages (IMHO should be legal as a fundamental right) or abortion, while elites have slowly eroded social safety nets and taken a ever growing bigger piece of the economic pie.
In case people have forgotten, there were plenty of cases of starvation to death during the Depression era.
It may not be too late for middle/lower class, hard-working Americans to make a common cause around social and economic justice.
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Posted by: atka on Apr 23, 2008 11:45 AM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Same scenario about 20 years ago in NYC - went to an emergency room of a hospital with a fever of 102; waited 6 hours (!). Fever broke in the meantime to a 100 so was sent home with a bill for $300 without anything being done to me. You tell me, which is better?
Also, I remember when my child had antiobiotics prescribed for an ear infection - in the US this medication cost $136 out of pocket. In Poland, where I was visiting a month or so later, the exact same, brand name antiobiotic cost the equivalent of $5!!! Yes, five bucks! That's because the governments negotiate drug prices with drug manufacturers over there, while here we're told the higher prices are justified by R&D. Bull!
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Posted by: Quannah on Apr 23, 2008 1:24 PM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
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Posted by: PaulK on Apr 23, 2008 3:41 PM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
This was all quite illegal, and after my sister died in 17 months, the lawyers for her estate settled with the former employer for medical costs only, with no admission of wrongdoing. Basically the employer broke even. I would have preferred to see some of the employer's management get a long prison stretch.
I'm grateful for having seen SiCKO, in particular the women who had cancer and were cut dead by their insurers.
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Posted by: willymack on Apr 23, 2008 3:51 PM
Current rating: 4 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
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» Ha ha! Ha ha! Ha ha!
Posted by: vkobaya
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Posted by: mnatra on Apr 23, 2008 4:34 PM
Current rating: 1 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
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» RE: N
Posted by: maggiem
» RE: N
Posted by: B. Spoon
» maggiem...
Posted by: Quannah
» You go, Quannah!
Posted by: B. Spoon
Comments are closed-
Posted by: bluepilgrim on Apr 23, 2008 9:58 PM
Current rating: Not yet rated [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
It's not just a matter of who pays, but that the health care system is in trouble, and part of that is too much paperwork, and unneeded tests for doctors to cover their rear-ends -- and much of that is because of the private insurance companies. I expect this will vary with what state and area one lives in, but for me it hasn't been that bad so far except for long waits for appointments.
No matter how it's sliced, however, private insurers are a huge overhead, suck money out the system, and get in the way of medical decisions. Big greedy corporate drug companies are another leech on health care. They both get huges amounts of money while adding nothing to health -- and often interfering or preventing care. What we are doing now is like trying to move water through a hose filled with holes.
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Posted by: maggiem on Apr 24, 2008 9:47 AM
Current rating: Not yet rated [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
I would too--though first, we need to reform Medicare so that it covers the things we need:
preventive care and chronic disease management
This means Medicare needs to pay primary care doctor, family doctors and pediatricians more so that there will be more of them and they will have the time to care for us. Right now there are too few primary care doctors beause the fees are low. They come out of med school with $300,000 in loans and can expect to earn $110,000. .
That may sound like a lot of money, but after you make monthly payments on the loans, it isn't. And even after they have been practicing for years, the average income is $160,000.
This is why so very few med students are going into primary care today.
By contrast we over-pay some specialisits--especially those who perform the most aggressive procedures. They can easily earn $800,000, a million a year--or much more. Some of their fees should be cut so that we can pay doctors at the bottom of the ladder more.
Medicare also needs to refuse to cover ineffetive, sometimes risky and always over-priced drugs and devices. The research showing a "benefit" from these products is done by the manufacturers and is often biased. Medicare needs to insist on head-to-head comparisons of
products done by reserachers who have no financial interest in the outcome.
Medicare also has to negotiate for discounts on drugs and devices, just like every other developed country in the world. We overpay for no reasons except the fact that the lobbyists who represent tje manufacturers bribe our Congressmen with campaign contributions.
Once Medicare is reformed (which I hope will happen early in the next administration) I would love to see Medcare for all.
But I'm in the minority. 80 percent of the people in this country have private insurance that they like (usually through their employer) and they don't want a
government edict telling them that they have to give it up. They are afraid of giving up something they know for an unknown--Medicare for all. And the last eight years haven't exactly given them a lot of confidence in govt programs.
That is why both Clinton and Obama are proposing giving people a choice between a Medicare-like plan and the private insurance they now have. The hope is that eventually, people will see that the Medicare plan can offer more coverage for less because it doesn't have to spend money on advertising, exorbitant executive salaires, lobbyists, profits for shareholders, etc.
But you can't force people to give up the insurance they have. This is a democracy. They need to have choice. That's why there just aren't the votes in Congress for single-payer.
I like the idea of single-payer. You do. But we are not in the majority. Giving people a
choice is the other way to get there.
I'm writing about this on my blog "www.healthbeatblog.org. See my most recent post headlined: "Health Care Reformers Debate the Road to Universal Coverage, Part 1)
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» RE: I would prefer Medicare for all, But
Posted by: B. Spoon
» You're missing a crucial point
Posted by: B. Spoon
» RE: You're missing a crucial point
Posted by: maggiem
» RE: You're missing a crucial point
Posted by: B. Spoon
» I read the candidates' health plan outlines
Posted by: B. Spoon
» Here's the details on one point
Posted by: B. Spoon
» I'm not making any of this up...
Posted by: B. Spoon
» Download Hillary's health plan
Posted by: B. Spoon
» RE: Download Hillary's health plan
Posted by: B. Spoon
» Fascinating Factoid re: Obama'a plan
Posted by: B. Spoon
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Posted by: peacekeepertwo on Apr 29, 2008 3:01 AM
Current rating: Not yet rated [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
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» 2.9% wage tax for Medicare
Posted by: B. Spoon
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Posted by: B. Spoon on Apr 29, 2008 6:00 AM
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» Plus it would never be 80% satisfaction rate
Posted by: B. Spoon
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Posted by: B. Spoon on May 1, 2008 5:31 AM
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Posted by: B. Spoon on May 3, 2008 5:23 AM
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Posted by: mmckinl on Apr 23, 2008 12:19 AM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
We need politicians, and I guess authors, with the guts to do what is right, get rid of the overhead and profit motive for all these health insurance companies. We already have the template and the infrastructure could easily be ramped up : Medicare for All ...
This article does NOT pass the smell test. Compromise, compromise, compromise ,,, is this article really on the Alternet Website ?
We as Progressives and Liberals need to demand what is right, mandates aren't and coverage for everybody is.
[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]
» RE: We Need Medicare for All ... Not a Mandate ...
Posted by: Richard House
» RE: We Need Medicare for All ... Not a Mandate ...
Posted by: Richard House
» RE: We Need Medicare for All ... Not a Mandate ...
Posted by: B. Spoon
» FORCED into?
Posted by: B. Spoon
» Stop talking around the solution...
Posted by: ordaj
» RE:Governments are instituted among men
Posted by: solrev
» RE: We Need Medicare for All ... Not a Mandate ...
Posted by: wbblack
» RE: We Need Medicare for All ... Not a Mandate ...
Posted by: JSquercia
» RE: We Need Medicare for All ... Not a Mandate ...
Posted by: maggiem
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Posted by: HeKnew on Apr 23, 2008 12:49 AM
Current rating: 1 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
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» Sadly, when we have access to direct democracy, we use it
Posted by: Raymond Emerson
» RE: Sadly, when we have access to direct democracy, we use it
Posted by: war_on_tara
Comments are closed-
Posted by: NoPCZone on Apr 23, 2008 3:52 AM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Despite polling that showed Edwards easily defeating ANY Republican, the DLC crowd and sheeple in Iowa and New Hampshire ignored him. Now we see McCain polling better and better against two greenhorn Senators that would be among the least experienced Presidents ever elected in the modern era.
Obama and Clinton will give you platitudes. Kucinich and Edwards would have brought home the bacon on healthcare. I hope those of you who put us in this spot are happy.
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» RE: To The Celebutards, Clintonistas & Oprah Voters
Posted by: wolfgangmo75
» We're OVERPAYING for health coverage
Posted by: B. Spoon
» I NEVER DID GET A CHANCE TO VOTE FOR KUCINICH. THE POWER
Posted by: Raymond Emerson
» RE: To The Celebutards, Clintonistas & Oprah Voters
Posted by: wireup
» RE: To The Celebutards, Clintonistas & Oprah Voters
Posted by: e rice
» RE: To The Celebutards, Clintonistas & Oprah Voters
Posted by: anneliese-nyc
» RE: To The Celebutards, Clintonistas & Oprah Voters
Posted by: maggiem
» Mis-education key to non-reform
Posted by: B. Spoon
» RE: To The Celebutards, Clintonistas & Oprah Voters
Posted by: Quannah
Comments are closed-
Posted by: Raymond Emerson on Apr 23, 2008 3:53 AM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Anybody that wants to keep private insurance would be free to do so. Those who can't or don't want to would use a cost free version of medicare. For years the wealthy have sloshed around the world hunting the best medical care. The poor did without or received partial treatment and often died unnecessarily. They still do.
There is a great difference between 'rich man's medicine' and poor man's medicine. There are hospitals, there are clinics, and there are doctors that accept only cash. In this era that rules out the middle class.
When a poor man needs a heart transplant his chances aren't good. The rich can shuttle around the world until they get one. There is every reason to believe that a thriving black market exists for all types of transplants.
National health isn't going to cure or stop this 'black market'. But it is going to prevent the need for some of it. For reasons that are really poorly understood, the wealthy live shorter lives in countries with poor medical care. The theory is that countries with poor health care have higher overall stress rates and that these rates take a toll on all.
The issue in this article of whether the business world should continue to provide healthe insurance. Is it just possible that employers did the insurance to tie their employees to them. We all know the stories of the "company store". Is it just possible that this is just an extention of the old company store story? How many people have stayed on jobs that they hated because they couldn't afford to be without the health insurance the job offered. To me it appears to create a form of involuntary servitude.
I'm willing to assert that national health will also improve individual freedom. I think that the argument might stand up under scrutiny.
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» national health
Posted by: e rice
» RE: THE INSURANCE COMPANIES ARE TRYING THEIR BEST TO FILL THE
Posted by: anneliese-nyc
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Posted by: willie.horton on Apr 23, 2008 4:02 AM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
If we try to create a "mandate" for employers to provide health care, (at least) three things will ensure failure:
--The smallest employers will be exempted from the mandate.
--The self-employed (including 1099 consultants) will be excluded from the mandate.
--The mandated minimum coverage will be all that employers offer; out-of-pocket costs will rise, and swiftly offset any savings the employees might see.
Medicare already avoids all three of these pitfalls: every employer is covered, the self-employed already pay the tax, and its coverage limits are set by government instead of for-profit insurance companies.
Three things to make it happen:
--Eliminate the "income cap" over which taxes are not collected.
--Extend the coverage to birth for anyone with a Social Security number.
--Increase the Medicare payroll tax to cover the costs.
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» RE: Medicare from Birth
Posted by: bobgalli
» RE: Medicare from Birth
Posted by: CatDad
» RE: Tax
Posted by: solrev
Comments are closed-
Posted by: Sushi on Apr 23, 2008 4:44 AM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Take the profit out of health insurance and the tax might be quite affordable.
Ya think I might start getting 'bitter' about paying $4 for a gallon of gas so I can get to work to make money to pay $4/gallon for of milk?
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» Not might, would...
Posted by: B. Spoon
» RE: Insurance rates vs. taxes
Posted by: billybookworm
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Posted by: wireup on Apr 23, 2008 6:54 AM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
It's simply mind-boggling to think that we can't do this very simple thing. We can put people on the moon. We can develop complex technology to solve problems. We can find solutions to every sort of question.
But find a solution to health care of all? This is too complex to solve? Somehow, I don't think so.
The problem is the insurance companies and politicians who refuse to pass laws MANDATING public financing of elections. No. Politicians PREFER to take money from corporations and since insurance companies are part of that equation we don't have national health care.
It's truly stomach-turning that politicians put themselves before what is good for the country. May they all go to the devil!
What the hell is WRONG with the citizens of this country? Are they truly nothing more than sheep?
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Posted by: SekhmetsatRa on Apr 23, 2008 6:59 AM
Current rating: 1 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
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» RE: Have any of you EVER been on Medicare/Medicaid?
Posted by: drich
» Have you ever been denied coverage...
Posted by: B. Spoon
» RE: Have you ever been denied coverage...
Posted by: SekhmetsatRa
» Health insurers have NO mercy
Posted by: B. Spoon
» RE: Health insurers have NO mercy
Posted by: john mont
» RE: Have any of you EVER been on Medicare/Medicaid?
Posted by: notinKansas
» RE: Have any of you EVER been on Medicare/Medicaid?
Posted by: SekhmetsatRa
» You are really confused...
Posted by: B. Spoon
» RE: You are really confused...
Posted by: SekhmetsatRa
» SSI DISABILITY is different from SSI
Posted by: B. Spoon
» RE: SSI DISABILITY is different from SSI
Posted by: Quannah
» RE: Have any of you EVER been on Medicare/Medicaid?
Posted by: Quannah
» Better than many have now
Posted by: wizardofoz
» RE: Have any of you EVER been on Medicare/Medicaid?
Posted by: wolfgangmo75
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Posted by: mnlefty on Apr 23, 2008 6:59 AM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
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» canada and france,
Posted by: e rice
» Oh, the horrors of universal single payer health care!
Posted by: GeorgiaBlue
» RE: Oh, the horrors of universal single payer health care!
Posted by: CatDad
» RE: does this author work for the clinton campaign?
Posted by: maggiem
Comments are closed-
Posted by: LeeAnnG on Apr 23, 2008 7:00 AM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Rather than having everyone join some kind of universal coverage that benefits insurance companies, wouldn't it be great if everyone refused coverage? I know it's an absolutely crazy idea, because people (like me) who actually have coverage are not going to refuse to use it. It's just a thought that's been rattling around in my old brain for awhile now. Maybe someday, a real leader - which I am most certainly not - will appear and rally people to the idea of an "insurance sit-out."
The "health care" industry has us all in a huge bind, and they know it. Perhaps the rising gas prices, along with the outrageous oil company profits, out-of-control rising insurance and health care costs, food prices, and the other costs of living that are putting American workers on the edge of poverty will finally put us over the edge. It feels like a revolution of some kind is coming, and I sincerely hope it is nonviolent and beneficial when it does.
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» RE: Universal refusal
Posted by: dayenta
» RE: the revolution of 2012
Posted by: solrev
» How about everyone take the cost of
Posted by: B. Spoon
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Posted by: GrannyBgood on Apr 23, 2008 7:57 AM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Yesterday here in Flaaa, the gas just went up 10 cents in one day!
Having half a tank left in my gas-economical Subaru, I quipped to the cashier at the convenience store,
" I'm just hoping maybe we'll have a revolution before I have to fill up again!"
..to which there was hearty agreement all around!
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» RE: Revolution
Posted by: badkitty
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Posted by: cyr3n on Apr 23, 2008 8:50 AM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
// worked in a municipal insurance company in NJ -- without healthcare.
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» RE: Young women don't get EPHI either
Posted by: maggiem
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Posted by: drricklippin on Apr 23, 2008 10:24 AM
Current rating: 3 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Completely agree with premise we must reduce unnecessary costs driven by health care providers/industry greed. Two salient questions must be asked-
- does the test/procedure/treatment work?(efficacy)
- is the test/procedure/treatment safe?(safety)
Seems pretty basic but perverse economic incentives in US Health Care model have led us back to the basics or to the brink?
For some real dramatic savings though see what Robin Hanson writes about for CATO.
Dr. Rick Lippin
Southampton,Pa
http://medicalcrises.blogspot.com
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» RE:Reduce Unnecessary Health Care Costs - Profit and Executive Salaries
Posted by: mmckinl
» Sounds Good To Me- But....
Posted by: drricklippin
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Posted by: anneliese-nyc on Apr 23, 2008 10:27 AM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
I do not know if the real problem is that most citizens are sheeple . Sure , a majority are .No argument there . But as I stand on the train and I watch people , most are engrossed in texting, cell phone use ,laptops, Ipods ,romance novels...etc .Real connection between people is broken .
ALSO, there are too many people who are just involved with those only of their religion, race , location with no sense of greater community let alone actually belonging to a country . Too much media and too much "me & mine".
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» RE: We are too fragmented to be cohesive at this point.
Posted by: mmckinl
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Posted by: PakiBoy on Apr 23, 2008 11:44 AM
Current rating: 4 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
They will squable over trivial issues like who wears flag lapel pins and wedge issues like gay marriages (IMHO should be legal as a fundamental right) or abortion, while elites have slowly eroded social safety nets and taken a ever growing bigger piece of the economic pie.
In case people have forgotten, there were plenty of cases of starvation to death during the Depression era.
It may not be too late for middle/lower class, hard-working Americans to make a common cause around social and economic justice.
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Posted by: atka on Apr 23, 2008 11:45 AM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Same scenario about 20 years ago in NYC - went to an emergency room of a hospital with a fever of 102; waited 6 hours (!). Fever broke in the meantime to a 100 so was sent home with a bill for $300 without anything being done to me. You tell me, which is better?
Also, I remember when my child had antiobiotics prescribed for an ear infection - in the US this medication cost $136 out of pocket. In Poland, where I was visiting a month or so later, the exact same, brand name antiobiotic cost the equivalent of $5!!! Yes, five bucks! That's because the governments negotiate drug prices with drug manufacturers over there, while here we're told the higher prices are justified by R&D. Bull!
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Posted by: Quannah on Apr 23, 2008 1:24 PM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
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Posted by: PaulK on Apr 23, 2008 3:41 PM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
This was all quite illegal, and after my sister died in 17 months, the lawyers for her estate settled with the former employer for medical costs only, with no admission of wrongdoing. Basically the employer broke even. I would have preferred to see some of the employer's management get a long prison stretch.
I'm grateful for having seen SiCKO, in particular the women who had cancer and were cut dead by their insurers.
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Posted by: willymack on Apr 23, 2008 3:51 PM
Current rating: 4 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
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» Ha ha! Ha ha! Ha ha!
Posted by: vkobaya
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Posted by: mnatra on Apr 23, 2008 4:34 PM
Current rating: 1 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
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» RE: N
Posted by: maggiem
» RE: N
Posted by: B. Spoon
» maggiem...
Posted by: Quannah
» You go, Quannah!
Posted by: B. Spoon
Comments are closed-
Posted by: bluepilgrim on Apr 23, 2008 9:58 PM
Current rating: Not yet rated [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
It's not just a matter of who pays, but that the health care system is in trouble, and part of that is too much paperwork, and unneeded tests for doctors to cover their rear-ends -- and much of that is because of the private insurance companies. I expect this will vary with what state and area one lives in, but for me it hasn't been that bad so far except for long waits for appointments.
No matter how it's sliced, however, private insurers are a huge overhead, suck money out the system, and get in the way of medical decisions. Big greedy corporate drug companies are another leech on health care. They both get huges amounts of money while adding nothing to health -- and often interfering or preventing care. What we are doing now is like trying to move water through a hose filled with holes.
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Posted by: maggiem on Apr 24, 2008 9:47 AM
Current rating: Not yet rated [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
I would too--though first, we need to reform Medicare so that it covers the things we need:
preventive care and chronic disease management
This means Medicare needs to pay primary care doctor, family doctors and pediatricians more so that there will be more of them and they will have the time to care for us. Right now there are too few primary care doctors beause the fees are low. They come out of med school with $300,000 in loans and can expect to earn $110,000. .
That may sound like a lot of money, but after you make monthly payments on the loans, it isn't. And even after they have been practicing for years, the average income is $160,000.
This is why so very few med students are going into primary care today.
By contrast we over-pay some specialisits--especially those who perform the most aggressive procedures. They can easily earn $800,000, a million a year--or much more. Some of their fees should be cut so that we can pay doctors at the bottom of the ladder more.
Medicare also needs to refuse to cover ineffetive, sometimes risky and always over-priced drugs and devices. The research showing a "benefit" from these products is done by the manufacturers and is often biased. Medicare needs to insist on head-to-head comparisons of
products done by reserachers who have no financial interest in the outcome.
Medicare also has to negotiate for discounts on drugs and devices, just like every other developed country in the world. We overpay for no reasons except the fact that the lobbyists who represent tje manufacturers bribe our Congressmen with campaign contributions.
Once Medicare is reformed (which I hope will happen early in the next administration) I would love to see Medcare for all.
But I'm in the minority. 80 percent of the people in this country have private insurance that they like (usually through their employer) and they don't want a
government edict telling them that they have to give it up. They are afraid of giving up something they know for an unknown--Medicare for all. And the last eight years haven't exactly given them a lot of confidence in govt programs.
That is why both Clinton and Obama are proposing giving people a choice between a Medicare-like plan and the private insurance they now have. The hope is that eventually, people will see that the Medicare plan can offer more coverage for less because it doesn't have to spend money on advertising, exorbitant executive salaires, lobbyists, profits for shareholders, etc.
But you can't force people to give up the insurance they have. This is a democracy. They need to have choice. That's why there just aren't the votes in Congress for single-payer.
I like the idea of single-payer. You do. But we are not in the majority. Giving people a
choice is the other way to get there.
I'm writing about this on my blog "www.healthbeatblog.org. See my most recent post headlined: "Health Care Reformers Debate the Road to Universal Coverage, Part 1)
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» RE: I would prefer Medicare for all, But
Posted by: B. Spoon
» You're missing a crucial point
Posted by: B. Spoon
» RE: You're missing a crucial point
Posted by: maggiem
» RE: You're missing a crucial point
Posted by: B. Spoon
» I read the candidates' health plan outlines
Posted by: B. Spoon
» Here's the details on one point
Posted by: B. Spoon
» I'm not making any of this up...
Posted by: B. Spoon
» Download Hillary's health plan
Posted by: B. Spoon
» RE: Download Hillary's health plan
Posted by: B. Spoon
» Fascinating Factoid re: Obama'a plan
Posted by: B. Spoon
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Posted by: peacekeepertwo on Apr 29, 2008 3:01 AM
Current rating: Not yet rated [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
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» 2.9% wage tax for Medicare
Posted by: B. Spoon
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Posted by: B. Spoon on Apr 29, 2008 6:00 AM
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» Plus it would never be 80% satisfaction rate
Posted by: B. Spoon
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Posted by: B. Spoon on May 1, 2008 5:31 AM
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Posted by: B. Spoon on May 3, 2008 5:23 AM
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