COMMENTS: 28
U.S. Health Care Worse by the Decade
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And at the end of the back-and-forth between Democratic presidential candidates Hillary Clinton and Barack Obama during a February debate in Cleveland, moderator Brian Williams of NBC News let out what amounted to an exasperated, if polite, sigh. "Well, a 16-minute discussion on health care is certainly a start," Williams said. "I'd like to change up."
Well, Americans would like to change up, too -- up to a less expensive, less irrational health insurance system in which 47 million people aren't left out of coverage. Up to a system in which those who are lucky enough to have coverage aren't confronted with continually rising co-payments and deductibles and convoluted schemes for limiting payment when someone gets really, really sick.
It turns out their doctors want to move up, too. They are way ahead of politicians in daring to go where the rest of the industrialized world has already gone: to a national health insurance system.
New research by the Indiana University School of Medicine shows that 59 percent of doctors support legislation to establish a national health insurance system, up from 49 percent in 2002. Only 32 percent of doctors said they were opposed. A slightly lower percentage, 55 percent, agreed with a different question on what researchers considered "incremental" reform -- that is, one that relies on tweaking the existing employer-based insurance system and filling in the gaps from there.
"National health insurance is national health insurance," says Aaron Carroll, director of the Center for Health Policy and Professionalism Research at the medical school. "They (doctors) support a plan where there is government legislation to establish government financing for health care -- a Medicare-for-all type of plan."
In this campaign that has offered a bumper crop of politicians and a thicket of platitudes about the American health insurance system, no one except Rep. Dennis Kucinich, the Ohio Democrat who long ago abandoned his presidential run, has proposed a national, single-payer system of insurance. The fear factor keeps politicians well behind doctors, even though many physicians might see their incomes shrink under a national health insurance plan.
Carroll says that what struck him most about his current data, compared with the 2002 survey, is the extent to which doctors in every specialty increased their support for a national health plan. "Every group went up that we measured," he told me. Those who back national health insurance the strongest are psychiatrists, who see mentally ill people suffer from some insurers' outright ban on coverage for mental health, or from low reimbursement rates for mental health treatment. Those in pediatrics and emergency medicine were also strong supporters. "Most of the people who are exposed to the uninsured are in primary care, or they're psychiatrists -- and emergency physicians who have to see people come into the ER without insurance all the time," Carroll says.
Carroll's center studies how health care is delivered in the United States, assessing its cost, quality and patients' access. By all those measures, he says, things have gotten worse in the past decade. That's one reason opinion polls taken during the past year or more have shown an increasing proportion of the public warming to national health insurance, even when the questions include the caveat that taxes might have to be raised to pay for it.
So, as they tend to say in those drug-company ads, doctors and patients agree.
It's the politicians who are lacking in courage, too cautious to confront the fear tactics that the insurance industry, the drug industry and other big players roll out every time. As for interest groups that represent doctors, Carroll says, those organizations supporting only incremental reform appear to be out of step. "We know what the representative groups are saying," he notes. "We wanted to see what actual physicians believe."
Belief isn't political action, and it comes up awfully short against the lobbyists' talking points opposing national health insurance -- the same arguments made against the creation of Medicare back in the 1960s. So maybe a bit of common sense is in order. "Nobody ever says, 'Let's get rid of Medicare,'" Carroll says. "Nobody says, this is horrible, we've got to go back the other way."
We should go forward instead.
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Comments are closed-
Posted by: CatDad on Apr 3, 2008 11:10 AM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Corporate health care spent 100 million dollars to defeat any tampering with their voraciously inefficiently cash cow in 1993....They will spend two billion dollars this time around if that's what it takes to stop any "reform." There are too many structural problems in our "democracy" that would allow for any significant reform in heath care...other than a scam reform like the Medicare drug benefit program that builds coverage on top of the existing system.
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» CatDad, in response to your comment
Posted by: Cathyc
» WE NO LONGER HAVE A FIRST WORLD ECONOMY
Posted by: Raymond Emerson
Comments are closed-
Posted by: Joe on Apr 3, 2008 12:43 PM
Current rating: 1 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
im sure its the same in china. when things don't work right it's never the government at fault, its the people not working with government that is the problem. which explains why china jails people when they get out of line. congratulations alternet. you have replaced you non-belief in a invisible god with a bureaucratic god.
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» RE: it's strange
Posted by: CatDad
» Where is this money (our taxes) going?
Posted by: Cathyc
» RE: it's strange
Posted by: babs
» National Healthcare Works: Canada, Australia, Britain, France, Sweden, etc., etc.
Posted by: sofla100
» government involvement
Posted by: e rice
» Gold star posting....
Posted by: CatDad
Comments are closed-
Posted by: HANGTRAITORS on Apr 3, 2008 2:51 PM
Current rating: Not yet rated [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
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» RE: CURES SUPPRESSED DISEASE ENHANCED
Posted by: redstar1970
» The Myth of Finding Cures
Posted by: armorypk
Comments are closed-
Posted by: sofla100 on Apr 3, 2008 3:21 PM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
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» America = Christian = MONEY!
Posted by: Cathyc
» RE: America: The ONLY fools in the Developed World Without National Health Care
Posted by: richholland
» RE: America: The ONLY fools in the Developed World Without National Health Care
Posted by: drjasonmd
Comments are closed-
Posted by: wireup on Apr 3, 2008 4:30 PM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
And, while we're fantasizing here - and let's face it: it IS a fantasy to think we might actually one day reach the same standard held by every civilized country one the planet (oh, I forgot: we're NOT civilized!) -
let's not forget to cover alternative medicine!
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Posted by: Cathyc on Apr 3, 2008 4:40 PM
Current rating: 4 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Does this mean that the 250+ million Americans with "health coverage" are concerned about the one-fifth of their fellow americans who don't have / can't afford health insurance? No, of course not!
That tax-paying citizens of any country should be compelled to pay for essential medical care (on top of their taxes) is, quite frankly, completely insane! What are taxes for, but to pay for PUBLIC services. What is wrong with the American people (and those that follow them like lost sheep) that they can't see that they are being screwed BIG TIME by their so-called leaders? If our taxes aren't paying for and providing public services for ALL the citizens of the country, then where is all that money going to? That's the question the people should be asking themselves.
Why pay taxes, if you aren't getting anything in return?
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» i agree--but, if we don't pay the taxes, we're jailed!
Posted by: e rice
Comments are closed-
Posted by: sofla100 on Apr 3, 2008 9:32 PM
Current rating: Not yet rated [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
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Posted by: drricklippin on Apr 4, 2008 7:53 AM
Current rating: Not yet rated [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
I am going to "triangulate" a bit here and say that doctors supporting single payer is no surprise as long as the $ keeps flowing into a treatment mode which handsomly rewards doctors.
But alas, a high-tech,high cost treatment model(including current Medicare) is not economically sustainable.
Robin Hanson writing for The Cato Institute says we could easily cut health care costs by one half.
Now that is bold and that is correct but it is not good news for Doctors'incomes -salaried or not
Dr. Rick Lippin
Southampton,Pa
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» More useless thoughts from the Cato Institute
Posted by: drjasonmd
Comments are closed-
Posted by: walldodger1969 on Apr 7, 2008 11:21 AM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
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» RE: until you take the profit
Posted by: e rice
Comments are closed-
Posted by: PNess on Apr 8, 2008 5:28 AM
Current rating: Not yet rated [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
i pay up to 50% less then private HMO/Healthplans
i control all the rules and are not subject to state regulations since i am a federal plan
You can's sue me the way you can sue the HMO's
ask these doctors if they are ready for MASSIVE pay cuts. sure they would love a single payor but if you told them it would be based on medicare's reimbursment EVERY one would reject it.
HMO's payments offset the low reimbursment of medicare. look at any hospital you will see that they lose money on medicare and make money on the private payor beacuse they can negotiate the rates, they cannot do this for medicare
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Posted by: jc1234 on Apr 8, 2008 6:29 PM
Current rating: Not yet rated [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
But of course, the lovely AMA and collusion with universities has made the cost of obtaining the education for a medical degree and subsequent license pretty rough for most. It doesn't mean the standards should go down, just the cost but that doesn't happen.
Increase supply of qualified medical professionals and differentiate between what a doctor HAS to deal with versus can be dealt with effectively by someone with a less intensive training/education regime. With an appropriate, well defined process of 'rolling up' cases to the best qualified personnel based on preliminary examination.
I have typically seen a doctor for 15 minutes maybe a little longer but rarely and somehow that whole thing is turned into a $300 dollar thing. Does the doctor make $1200/hr, the nurses don't make all that much. Would a doctor like to work a 2000 hour year, instead of a 3,000 hour year? At $100/hr a 2000 hour year is $200k, a $600/hr 2000 hr year is $1.2 million...how much freaking money does a doctor have to make to be happy? I know many doctors are overworked, but not all of them. My dentist made $800/hr off me for 3 sessions and that was just for his time, not for all the other stuff..if he worked 5 hours a week at that rate that's $16k a month
Then medications are way over priced and if a person has to take them over an extended period of time those can cost more than seeing a doctor and the medications usually come after seeing the doctor.
The system is totally broken and anyone who thinks there isn't a solution that can work for everyone involved in actual providing HEALTH CARE must only have a financial interest in seeing the status quo continue and less fortunate people suffer. I think a lot of doctors, for whatever reason valid or not, have violated their Hippocratic Oath like our politicians have violated their oath to defend the US Constitution and the general welfare of the people they were elected to serve.
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Posted by: Falang on Apr 18, 2008 8:17 PM
Current rating: Not yet rated [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
You should be ashame of your country!
I already know that I write that for nothing, so go back to your slave life like sheep who are going to the slaughterhouse.
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Comments are closed-
Posted by: CatDad on Apr 3, 2008 11:10 AM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Corporate health care spent 100 million dollars to defeat any tampering with their voraciously inefficiently cash cow in 1993....They will spend two billion dollars this time around if that's what it takes to stop any "reform." There are too many structural problems in our "democracy" that would allow for any significant reform in heath care...other than a scam reform like the Medicare drug benefit program that builds coverage on top of the existing system.
[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]
» CatDad, in response to your comment
Posted by: Cathyc
» WE NO LONGER HAVE A FIRST WORLD ECONOMY
Posted by: Raymond Emerson
Comments are closed-
Posted by: Joe on Apr 3, 2008 12:43 PM
Current rating: 1 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
im sure its the same in china. when things don't work right it's never the government at fault, its the people not working with government that is the problem. which explains why china jails people when they get out of line. congratulations alternet. you have replaced you non-belief in a invisible god with a bureaucratic god.
[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]
» RE: it's strange
Posted by: CatDad
» Where is this money (our taxes) going?
Posted by: Cathyc
» RE: it's strange
Posted by: babs
» National Healthcare Works: Canada, Australia, Britain, France, Sweden, etc., etc.
Posted by: sofla100
» government involvement
Posted by: e rice
» Gold star posting....
Posted by: CatDad
Comments are closed-
Posted by: HANGTRAITORS on Apr 3, 2008 2:51 PM
Current rating: Not yet rated [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]
» RE: CURES SUPPRESSED DISEASE ENHANCED
Posted by: redstar1970
» The Myth of Finding Cures
Posted by: armorypk
Comments are closed-
Posted by: sofla100 on Apr 3, 2008 3:21 PM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]
» America = Christian = MONEY!
Posted by: Cathyc
» RE: America: The ONLY fools in the Developed World Without National Health Care
Posted by: richholland
» RE: America: The ONLY fools in the Developed World Without National Health Care
Posted by: drjasonmd
Comments are closed-
Posted by: wireup on Apr 3, 2008 4:30 PM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
And, while we're fantasizing here - and let's face it: it IS a fantasy to think we might actually one day reach the same standard held by every civilized country one the planet (oh, I forgot: we're NOT civilized!) -
let's not forget to cover alternative medicine!
[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]
Comments are closed-
Posted by: Cathyc on Apr 3, 2008 4:40 PM
Current rating: 4 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Does this mean that the 250+ million Americans with "health coverage" are concerned about the one-fifth of their fellow americans who don't have / can't afford health insurance? No, of course not!
That tax-paying citizens of any country should be compelled to pay for essential medical care (on top of their taxes) is, quite frankly, completely insane! What are taxes for, but to pay for PUBLIC services. What is wrong with the American people (and those that follow them like lost sheep) that they can't see that they are being screwed BIG TIME by their so-called leaders? If our taxes aren't paying for and providing public services for ALL the citizens of the country, then where is all that money going to? That's the question the people should be asking themselves.
Why pay taxes, if you aren't getting anything in return?
[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]
» i agree--but, if we don't pay the taxes, we're jailed!
Posted by: e rice
Comments are closed-
Posted by: sofla100 on Apr 3, 2008 9:32 PM
Current rating: Not yet rated [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]
Comments are closed-
Posted by: drricklippin on Apr 4, 2008 7:53 AM
Current rating: Not yet rated [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
I am going to "triangulate" a bit here and say that doctors supporting single payer is no surprise as long as the $ keeps flowing into a treatment mode which handsomly rewards doctors.
But alas, a high-tech,high cost treatment model(including current Medicare) is not economically sustainable.
Robin Hanson writing for The Cato Institute says we could easily cut health care costs by one half.
Now that is bold and that is correct but it is not good news for Doctors'incomes -salaried or not
Dr. Rick Lippin
Southampton,Pa
[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]
» More useless thoughts from the Cato Institute
Posted by: drjasonmd
Comments are closed-
Posted by: walldodger1969 on Apr 7, 2008 11:21 AM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]
» RE: until you take the profit
Posted by: e rice
Comments are closed-
Posted by: PNess on Apr 8, 2008 5:28 AM
Current rating: Not yet rated [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
i pay up to 50% less then private HMO/Healthplans
i control all the rules and are not subject to state regulations since i am a federal plan
You can's sue me the way you can sue the HMO's
ask these doctors if they are ready for MASSIVE pay cuts. sure they would love a single payor but if you told them it would be based on medicare's reimbursment EVERY one would reject it.
HMO's payments offset the low reimbursment of medicare. look at any hospital you will see that they lose money on medicare and make money on the private payor beacuse they can negotiate the rates, they cannot do this for medicare
[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]
Comments are closed-
Posted by: jc1234 on Apr 8, 2008 6:29 PM
Current rating: Not yet rated [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
But of course, the lovely AMA and collusion with universities has made the cost of obtaining the education for a medical degree and subsequent license pretty rough for most. It doesn't mean the standards should go down, just the cost but that doesn't happen.
Increase supply of qualified medical professionals and differentiate between what a doctor HAS to deal with versus can be dealt with effectively by someone with a less intensive training/education regime. With an appropriate, well defined process of 'rolling up' cases to the best qualified personnel based on preliminary examination.
I have typically seen a doctor for 15 minutes maybe a little longer but rarely and somehow that whole thing is turned into a $300 dollar thing. Does the doctor make $1200/hr, the nurses don't make all that much. Would a doctor like to work a 2000 hour year, instead of a 3,000 hour year? At $100/hr a 2000 hour year is $200k, a $600/hr 2000 hr year is $1.2 million...how much freaking money does a doctor have to make to be happy? I know many doctors are overworked, but not all of them. My dentist made $800/hr off me for 3 sessions and that was just for his time, not for all the other stuff..if he worked 5 hours a week at that rate that's $16k a month
Then medications are way over priced and if a person has to take them over an extended period of time those can cost more than seeing a doctor and the medications usually come after seeing the doctor.
The system is totally broken and anyone who thinks there isn't a solution that can work for everyone involved in actual providing HEALTH CARE must only have a financial interest in seeing the status quo continue and less fortunate people suffer. I think a lot of doctors, for whatever reason valid or not, have violated their Hippocratic Oath like our politicians have violated their oath to defend the US Constitution and the general welfare of the people they were elected to serve.
[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]
Comments are closed-
Posted by: Falang on Apr 18, 2008 8:17 PM
Current rating: Not yet rated [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
You should be ashame of your country!
I already know that I write that for nothing, so go back to your slave life like sheep who are going to the slaughterhouse.
[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]
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