10 Myths About Canadian Health Care, Busted

For political framing of the health care issue here in the states, I think we might need to call copying what works in the Canadian system and others "creating a uniquely American health care solution". It plays to our ego-centricity (which is huge).

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I have a number of personal experiences with this
horrible Canadian system of health care. A few years ago, I tripped, fell down the stairs, knocked out cold, woke a few hours later and rushed to the nearest hospital emergency. From the time I entered the emergency to till I got an MRI
was at least 10 minutes. After that was done, they
had the gall to bother me about my name, address,
next of kin and health insurance. My next experience was ,a few months ago, when I woke up,my left hand was lame. Again emergency, another 10 minute wait, it was diagnosed as nerve palsy, I was referred to a neurologist, I
had to wait 3 days to see one.

Last year was my 65th birthday, a few months
before I got a letter from the Ontario ministry of health, I now have to pay $100 per year plus
$7 per prescription for all my medication. That
is as long as I make more that $25,000 per year,
should I not, I would only have to pay $2 per
prescription. Most pharmacies advertise that they will vaive that fee. Now you know the horrid truth about "socialized medicine".

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I have a number of personal experiences with this
horrible Canadian system of health care. A few years ago, I tripped, fell down the stairs, knocked out cold, woke a few hours later and rushed to the nearest hospital emergency. From the time I entered the emergency to till I got an MRI
was at least 10 minutes. After that was done, they
had the gall to bother me about my name, address,
next of kin and health insurance. My next experience was ,a few months ago, when I woke up,my left hand was lame. Again emergency, another 10 minute wait, it was diagnosed as nerve palsy, I was referred to a neurologist, I
had to wait 3 days to see one.

Last year was my 65th birthday, a few months
before I got a letter from the Ontario ministry of health, I now have to pay $100 per year plus
$7 per prescription for all my medication. That
is as long as I make more that $25,000 per year,
should I not, I would only have to pay $2 per
prescription. Most pharmacies advertise that they will vaive that fee. Now you know the horrid truth about "socialized medicine".

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Well, you missed a bogeyman: that the Canadian health care system cuts people with terminal illnesses off at a certain point w/o patient consent.

My common sense tells me it's false but I would like to hear it from a Canadian.

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Thanks for spelling out the clearcut rationality of Canadian healthcare...versus the profit-driven rationalizations of our Greed Culture drug-pushing system.

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Sign me up !

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The nominee and the candidates of the party should pledge to pass a Universal Healthcare Bill period. They should stand together and put their election on the line, asking the people for a mandate. That is the only way many will be able to resist the onslaught that will come from the lobbyists, astroturf groups and spinners that will come out of the woodwork.

I really don't see any other way. It's time the Democrats take a stand on this issue.

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The author's statement that "Canadians pick their own doctors, just like Americans do" is not true. Canadians pick their own doctors and pharmacies, yes, but not as Americans do. Canadians are not forced to limit their choices to an HMO approved list set by their insurer.

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He needs to be president like 7 years ago!!!

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They had consistently dissed the Canadian health care system as being socialist. They had also claimed many Canadians come here for medical care so it must not be that good. But I had always known better and hope we get that system up and running here!!!

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We must get past representative democracy.

Because it's obsolete.

Government of the people, by the people and for the people.

Direct Democracy

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No matter who is elected, American people must advance zero tolerance for the status quo. Insurance companies have no role other than providing enhancements to the system.
In turn public medicare should include legislation suporting public administration, universality, portability, accessibility and comprehensiveness. Half measures avail nothing.

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Both these patriots had Canadian citizens tell their listeners about the horrors of the pinko Canadian health system. Are you telling me it was all lies?

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The solution is so Obvious that it amazes me why even the Democrats have avoided it . It is sad to think that a TV show had this very same idea . Jimmy Smits in running for President on the West Wing prposed that during the shows final season .
Canada's system may be even BETTER than Medicare . I have a brother who had diabetes for 35 years which created enormous health issues . This past June he suffered a Stroke which left him paralyzed on one side . His kidney's failed and he is on 3 times a week Dialysis . In addition due to the poor blood circulation caused by the Diabetes he has lost both his legs . He is still in the hospital
The Hospital Bill alone even with Medicare is close to 2 MILLION dollars and that is without the surgeon's bills . Medicare ONLY pays for 150 days in the hospital . Had he left and gone to a Nursing Home for a day and then returned to the hospital he would have qualified for another 90 days of Medicaid coverage .

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In US doctor's offices, typically, there's the doctor, maybe a nurse, a medical secretary, and a billing staff. Billing and insurance processors take up a lot of overhead and plainly adds to the cost of medical care.

I'm not a fan of big government but this is a rare opportunity where government can do a job more efficiently and benefitting the greatest number of people.

I'm on board. When can we start?

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over what we have in a heart beat!

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Third: The average American medical student graduates $140,000 in hock. The average Canadian doctor's debt is roughly half that.

Finally, Canadian doctors pay lower malpractice insurance fees. When paying for health care constitutes a one of a family's major expenses, expectations tend to run very high. A doctor's mistake not only damages the body; it may very well throw a middle-class family permanently into the ranks of the working poor, and render the victim uninsurable for life. With so much at stake, it's no wonder people are quick to rush to court for redress.

Canadians are far less likely to sue in the first place, since they're not having to absorb devastating financial losses in addition to any physical losses when something goes awry. The cost of the damaging treatment will be covered. So will the cost of fixing it.

The lower medical school costs seem to be something that we can't transition to the US, what effect will that have on a single-payer system in the US. Would increased student-aid to medical students (so they have less debt) be cost-effective?

Although future medical expenses wouldn't add to what is sued for, there is still lost income and a host of other claims. Given the generally less effective safety net that exists in this country overall, wouldn't those still be factors?

I think have "Medicare-for-all" in this country would be fine, I just had a couple of questions.

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1. I have done my math and if I pay 10 % more taxes, extra for a semiprivate room, $ 100 for one add on policy and $300 for a second add on policy to get what I have now it dosen't appear to be a savings of nothing for me and my family.

2. The canadian goverment put out an average wait list on the internet that I read several weeks ago. There where some really long waits for a lot of things. Many of them were not elective items, such as heart caths, stints and ballon surgerys. These can not wait most of the time.

I also would like to know if Canadians do actually live longer than Americans. That may well be true but I would like to know the fiqures.

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...to some of the bathed-in-the-blood Gimme's. Still, it begs the question of why a substantial number of the 85% of the population in the U.S that receives some form of health coverage would want to convert to (gamble on) a Canadian-ish style form of universal payer, single provider coverage. This is, after all, not Canada, and we tend to allocate our federal dollars elsewhere*.

Again, however, the reasonable level of objectivity on the topic was a breath of fresh air.

*See also, "perpetual wars to perform magical nation building".

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I do know of an outfitter in Canada who came across the border 2 times for heart surgery. HE said it was because of the long waits in Canada and His common law wife told us it was also because he did'nt quilify because of his age. I am only telling you what this canadian couple told us. I do not know it to be truth though they have not been found to be liars before. and they did say this.

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Those who rail against big gubmint forget that we have universal legal assistance. That's right. Get into legal trouble and can't pay, the gubmint provides you with a public defender. Bad quality you say? There's myriad incentives for experienced lawyers from private law firms to provide pro bono assistence to the poor who face daunting legal challenges to their freedom in court. We all know how expensive lawyers are and our legal system is probably one of the costliest in the world. But our Constitution guarantees legal defense and representation. So we provide it as something to which everyone has an inalienable right. Too bad there is not the same pervasive attitude in America, that the rest of the world seems to have, about the inalienable right to health.

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Linking to the TomPaine site took me to another 2-part Sara Robinson piece titled 'Stealing Our Future', written in January 2008. I, in no way, qualify as a literary critic. But the word 'profound' works for me. Shame it wasn't posted here, but please take time(1/2 hour?) to review this work. It might serve as the handbook of tomorrow's progressive movement - it's THAT good...

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Canada can put vast sums percentage wise into health care because their military budget is minimum because The US would not tolerate any sort of attack on Canada.

(Not criticizing Canada. It is a fact of geography. I have 100% confidence in Canada as our friend)

I listen to CBC news. Every election involves arguments over the health care system.

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A few years ago at the young age of 46....I had a Brain Stem Stroke....3 months and probably half a million in expenses I got out of the hospital and received a bill for $100....$50 each for two ambulance rides.

The care was excellent....in Canada we have life saving care not life savings care

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And now for a bit of nit-picking.
From #7:
"Also: pharmacists here dispense what the doctors tell them to dispense, the first time, without moralizing. I know. It's amazing."

I thought that pharmacists could refuse to dispense drugs like Plan B if they're "morally opposed", provided they refer to another pharmacist who will. I don't know what this means for women living in small, conservative towns with only one pharmacist.

And I don't know if this is up to date, but I also thought Plan B wasn't over the counter so much as behind the counter. This means a "consultation" and an additional fee for that "service". I'd call that moralizing.

From #9:
"Canadians are serious about not coming to work if you're contagious. . ."
I know lots of people who will come in to work sick. For those near the bottom of the ladder, it's because the employer does not provide paid sick leave. You no work, you no get paid, and for people barely making it at or near minimum wage, they simply can't afford to not come in. Up the ladder, I also know a few that will come in and infect others - some because they feel they're indispensible and "have" to come in, some because they take pride in saying they haven't missed a day of work in X years.

Still, great article.

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The single payer system is attractive but I do have reservations about government accountability. Here in Kalifornia, the legislature has sidestepped the state constitution and set up "boards" that make politicaly sensitive decisions, isolating the politicians from any culpability. It is easy for me to see one of these "boards" set up to handle healthcare decisions that leave large numbers of patients without a voice. I think, without careful consideration, we may trade one unmanageable beast for another.

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...ask yourself why? Why could this system not work in America when so many countries with fewer resources can do it?
The reason is that her plan and those of others will not end the HMO's stranglehold on the US health care system, a system that operates with the sole objective being profit for the insurers, and not care for the sick.
If America wants to take care of its sick, it must look at adopting a system of this type.
Any half-measures taken by Washington on this matter are only to appease the public, who are starting to catch a whiff of just what a heist this system is. Just because you are forced to buy into it, doesn't mean it will work better. We will still have HMO's denying treatment and families emptying their pockets for health care, too scared to use it because the premiums are already killing them financially. The system will not change.

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Just some thoughts on the article.

I've not experienced the US system of healthcare so I'm not in a position to critize but only to relate my experiences with the Canadian health care system.

In my lifetime I've had probably 6 Emergency room visits and never had more then a 30 minute wait. When I needed my gall bladder removed my Doctor asked my level of pain and asked how long did I think I could wait. Given that fatty foods trigger attacks and that I now had to eat healthy I said "as long as you want" and was given I think a P3 rating so I assumed I had months to wait. 2 weeks later I was in.

Other members of my family have had serious and ongoing medical needs that have required long hospital stays, but their needs have always been met.

There are wait lists for everything to be sure - here's the wait list for my province:
http://www.health.gov.bc.ca/waitlist/#
There are some long waits, and what the article doesn't really touch on - the lost wages and societal costs of people who are on some of these lists.

For my medical care I pay $58 a month, if I make less money I pay less.

There are problems with the system, just as any system would have but I wouldn't trade it for anything right now.

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Great article. As a Canadian I can only second that complaints about health care is easily the SECOND biggest passs time in Canada. I should point out that Curling isn't our other national sport, Lacrosse is and Hockey and Health Bitching definitely both trump that.
Beyond that I would like to say that I love our system but as a fellow British Columbian I was a little surprised to see the author so positive about the treatment of the elderly and the homeless/disabled up here. The issues surrounding elder care in BC have been magnified with the quasi privatization moves by our jerk of a priemier Gordon Campbell (Oh yeah, I'm an NDP'er which is kind of like a REALLY left wing Democrat). Also, the concerns for treatment for the disabled are a big issue. Included in this I will put those that are mentally disabled and addicted to drugs. Living in Vancouver the writer must know of the awful conditions faced by drug users in Van's Lower East Side.
I encourage Americans to bring your system into line with ours, on the whole it is a great system, but healthcare is not the magic bullet for society's ills so it is perhaps wise to not tie too much of Canada's happiness and what not with our single payer system.

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Paul Krugman and most of the mainline press & media are trying to portray health insurance as the only difference between the corporatist Hillary and over conciliatory Obma. Obama accepted the ´pece branch´from Hillary fter the failue of Bill in his negative confrontations. Obama despertely needs to get agressive about his differences in war voting and distinguish himself from warmonger Hillary and her voting record. How dare her attack Obama´s anti war intent!

We internet hacks are only preaching to the choir at this point.

We need to mount a general strike at Hillary by writing to the editors of small and large newspapers in the states with upcoming primaries.

Write today, esp. with those who are in those states. Get them out today to avert a disaster of the Clinton alliance with Geo Bush Sr, Rupert Murdoch, CITI Bank, etc. etc.

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You folks remember the old Fram commerical? "Pay me now or pay me later". Why is it that people do not seem to understand that paying for a single payer government administered medical plan is no different than paying for private corporate insurance? It is such a straight forward concept. You pay preimums to some corporation or taxes to the government. You pay one way or the other. The issue is what you don't pay for. Some CEO's $400 million dollar retirement plan or bonuses for people who deny claims to ensure profit targets, advertising, lobbying, buying politicians, and 20% per year increases.
Why would people want that in the name of private health care when they could get something better?

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One of the posters brought up the subject of life expectancy, here is the difference. According to the UN population studies Canada is ranked 13th,average expectancy 80.34 years, US 45th, 78 years.
A more damning indictment is the infant mortality rate 6.3 per 100,000 in the US vs.4.8 in Canada.
I am sure every one remembers the bird flu scare,the US govt. stockpiled the virus at a cost of $100 per dose. At the time the Canadian $ was about $.65 US. Out of curiosity I checked with my local pharmacy, one dose, with prescription fee was $ 48 Canadian.
On emergency depts. I should add one thing. You
first go to triage, if they think it is lfe threatening they rush you in. If it is a broken
bone, you can wait a few hours.

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why don't you compare the life expectancy and infant mortality rate of comparable cohorts??

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As a Canadian, I have wanted to write an article on this subject for a long time. I am glad that I did not because I would not have wrote it as well as you have.

It really bugs me when I see Americans lie about our great health care system. Sure it has problems, but everything does. The truth is that one thing that most Canadians are proud of is our health care system.

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Unable to post the chart in these comments...
 
So just link to original here.
 

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Straight Talk about 'univeral care'

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that Canadians don't look to our top political leader to "unite" us. Sometimes we grumble about it, but we know that agreeing to take care of each other outweighs all the things that divide us.

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Interestingly too is that 80% of doctors in Saskatchewan and Manitoba are ex-South Africans who are been given better, safer lives in Canada and leaving 1 doctor to 1000 patients back in SA.

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Yes, great article. Based on the logic in your article, I am immediately cancelling my appointment for open heart surgery with world renown Dr. Blaustein in Miami and instead I am going to have the surgery in Havana by a Dr. Diaz.

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in canada we do have a great many small and conservative towns bur our brand of conservative rarely comes close to the god-drenched conservative of which you speak, for the majority of canadians, other people's business is exactly that, we don't want or need our neighbours input on our personal affairs or want or need to intrude on theirs, after nearly forty years here, i've never heard of a situation like the one you're asking about occuring

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The basic problem with any third party payment system is you cannot effectively control prices. About the only way you can do that is to have a complete government takeover of the healthcare industry. The reason you cannot effectively control prices, is simply because the user of the service is not the one paying for the service, so they do not care how much that care is going to cost. When the user of the service does not care, they will use the service, regardless of how much it cost.

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Fortunately, I've had very little need for serious medical attention, but my son was in hospital for 3 months...and I never got a bill. I pay taxes and it costs me but my fiscal quality of life was not affected in its flow in the least.

5 years ago I had pneumonia and was off work for 3 wks. Amost hospitalized, but because I was so well taken care by my loved one, the doctor granted my wish and didn't keep me in; However, after many trips and bronchoscopies and pulmonary tests and visits etc in day sessions...I never got a bill. Excellent care.

I have been going to as many as 5 doctors at a time...all by my choice, no government intervention, for different concerns. All excellent professionals.

But yes, Canadians complain about the weaknesses in the system which could be improved with better management and funding, but that's on top of a solid medical infrastructure that supports the whole population. We would improve it, but we wouldn't dump it.

I think we should all study the Europeans and see what they do best...and copy, copy, copy...whatever works. After all, so much was taken from the European philosophes to write the American constitution and nobody feels reduced by that.

It seems most of the folks writing here agree that the Kucinich hope for universal access is the real one. The Health Insurance companies are totally unnecessary parasitic rapacious toll takers at a gate that blocks the citizen from ready access until their shareholders are satisfied. Get rid of them. They are blood suckers and will let you die. And don't wait for the good Sanjay Gupta to save you. He's a corporatist fake.

But, you have to demand it and force the media to ask the right questions. And by the way,where do you think the good doctors who oppose it have their money? Right, I don't know but I am suspicious.

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If Americans want better health care all you have to do is invade Canada, force the doctors to work as slaves and take the oil. Believe me the Canadian people will welcome you with Maple Sugar treats and flowers, unless you invade in winter, in which case any brave American soldier can have my sister.

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Last summer my 90 year old dad got a bowel blockage, was in great pain, and would have died without treatment.

We took an ambulance to the hospital, (the ambulance took 3-4 minutest to arrive). Once there Dad spent about an hour on a stretcher, after being examined within minutes, he was then taken to a triage area where he had his own bed, separated by curtains from the other patients. They were busy that night and he did not get his own room for about 12 hours. After being admitted he stayed for 10 days in a clean room and got excellent care and attention. He is fine now, and is bowling again. His bill was $150 for the ambulance, but that was picked up by the Dept. of Veteran's affairs as he is a WWII vet. Other than that it was totally free.

My experience is more limited. In 2000 I had a horrendous toothache. I went to emergency and had to wait 6 hours before finally seeing 2 Doctors, they interviewed me for a good 15 minutes before prescribing codeine.

When I want to see my own Doctor, I usually get in in a day or two. I have had her for 15 years, and she is excellent.

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Anyone who hasn't seen "Sicko" should do so. True, Moore is an artist not a journo so he is apt to spin things a little, and I know he airbrushed the UK National Health Scheme (NHS) a bit. But I saw him interviewed in England while I was there and the BBC bloke pressed him on deficiencies in NHS not mentioned by Moore, and Moore responded that the scheme was really struggling since Thatcher gutted Britain's welfare sector and New "Labour" had not restored the balance. However I saw NHS in action at Derriford in Plymouth, one of the UK's biggest hospitals, and apart from delays due to short staff it was good enough to make any working or middle class American's mouth water. The film also has a lot to say about Canada (again probably airbrushed a little). The bigt eye opener is Cuba – a poor country that leaves America for dead. This is socialised medicine – no wonder America hates Castro.

Relevant to the American elections is the performance of Hillary Clinton. Originally during the Clinton presidency she led a move to achieve universal health care but later she sold out to Big Pharma. Much more important than navel-gazinhg over gender. See “Sicko” for the details.

Anyone who can get hold of a DVD of this film (was one made?) would be well advised to share it far and wide by every means fair or foul.

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I swear to god, as a formal conservative regarding health care, if someone could get me the credible sources for these numbers in the article, I'll advocate for "socialized health care" for the rest of my life.

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Enjoyed reading this immensely. Finally... a factual dissertation to effectively counter all the lies of right-wing extremists either IN the pocket of the insurance companies, or, too damn stupid to vote for what is in their best interest.

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I'm so glad to see your name on my screen again Sara! Thank you for dispelling the BS the "Right" keeps throwing at us!

I hope all is going well with you and your family.

Dee/Mysa

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