COMMENTS: 190
How to Address Obesity in a Fat-Phobic Society
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Ellen explained to him that she worked out regularly and also did her best to eat healthy, but had a philosophical problem with turning food into the enemy. He simply retorted: "The only way you're going to lose weight is to cut the carbs. So ... cut the carbs."
"When he brought up my weight I wanted to have a real conversation with him, but instead he gave me his version of my 'problem'," Ellen said. "It made me really angry."
My friend's experience is not an anomaly. In fact, it is representative of a still unchanged attitude among too many medical doctors and nutritionists that fat people are problems to be solved; if they can just come up with the perfect equation, they figure, BMIs can be lowered and the supposed obesity epidemic eradicated.
This attitude shows up in doctor's offices where overweight and obese patients are often subjected to inquisition-like questioning. Yet they are rarely asked other, arguably more important questions: What's your experience of your body? How is your quality of life? How do you feel about your weight?
It also shows up in obesity intervention programs throughout the country, where a person's culture, class, education, or even genetics, are overlooked in the dogged pursuit to motivate what too many clinicians see as "lazy Americans" to lose pounds.
It's not as if we don't have the evidence that these factors -- culture, class, education, genetics -- matter. Yet another study just came out by University of Washington researchers who found gaping disparities in obesity rates among ZIP codes in the Seattle area. Every $100,000 in median home value for a ZIP code corresponded with a 2 percent drop in obesity.
Adam Drewnowski, director of the UW Center for Obesity Research, told the Seattle Post-Intelligencer,"If you have this mind-set that obesity has to do with the individual alone, then ZIP codes or areas really should not come into this. But they do, big-time."
This is not to say that individual behavior doesn't play a vital role in our country's obesity rate, but we too often neglect to think about the cultural and institutional influences on a person's behavior when it comes to eating and exercise.
You would never look at a working class, single mother driving a jalopy with three kids crawling around in the back and say, "Gees, what's her problem? Why can't she drive the Lexus hybrid like me?" You understand that she doesn't have the means, and furthermore, probably doesn't have the peer influence that would make it seem like a viable option.
Our judgmental, fat-phobic society seems even more ridiculous when you consider that there is a strong genetic component to weight. We now have ample scientific evidence suggesting that we are each born with a set point within which our metabolism will automatically adjust no matter how many calories we consume. It's like our working class mom could be dedicatedly saving up for that hybrid, but the money just keeps disappearing from her bank account.
Instead of vilifying fat people, this country needs to look long and hard at the roots of our obesity epidemic. While we can't change someone's genetics, we can work to change the institutional disparities that make maintaining a healthy weight difficult for people with less money. Encouraging supermarkets to open up in poor neighborhoods by adjusting zoning laws and creating tax-incentive programs is a start. More funding for public schools in low-income areas would translate into better quality food in the cafeterias and more nutrition and physical education.
In addition to addressing these classist systems, we need to do some soul searching about our own attitudes about fat. Until those of us who care about public health can truly separate the potential health risks of being overweight from our own internalized stigmas about fat, we won't be effective. We have to learn to distinguish between those who are satisfied with their current body size and those who wants to lose weight, and then, learn to provide complex guidance that takes societal and genetic factors into account.
Those in the field of public health need to remember how motivation really works (hint: not by coercion or humiliation) and rethink how quality of life is measured when it comes to overweight patients. It is not the clinician's -- often prejudiced, frequently rushed -- point of view that matters most, but the individual's.
Dr. Janell Mensinger, the Director of the Clinical Research Unit at The Reading Hospital & Medical Center, also recommends shifting the goals of obesity intervention programs: "Focusing on health indicators such as blood pressure, cholesterol, blood sugar would serve to de-stigmatize obese individuals and help them engage in better eating habits and physical activity for the purpose of healthier living as opposed to simply being thinner. Although I see some programs shifting in this direction, I don't think they have gone far enough."
Mensinger adds, "We have to avoid promoting the dieting mentality! Encourage acceptance of all shapes and sizes while promoting the importance of physical activity and eating well for the purpose of living and feeling better, mentally and physically. The people that most successfully achieve this goal are those with an expertise in eating disorders as well as obesity. They know best what can happen if the message is misconstrued."
Whether you are a primary care provider, a nurse practitioner, a nutritionist, or a community health advocate, I urge you to treat your next patient like a living, breathing human being with complicated feelings, economic concerns, and cultural affiliations. Weight loss isn't the ultimate goal; economic equality, cultural diversity, wellness and happiness are.
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Posted by: Camilla Cracchiolo on Oct 17, 2007 12:13 AM
Current rating: 4 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
However, I predict an onslaught of self-righteous comments calling fat people 'pigs' and overstating the health risks of obesity, demanding that fat people not be allowed to get health insurance and the wishful thinking that what you eat will almost always prevent devastating illness from hitting YOU.
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» Not Quite (An Attempt At the Middle Ground)
Posted by: grumble-bum
» I AGREE, TURN OF THE TV AND MOVE AROUND
Posted by: HistArch
» Most Overweight People do Eat Poorly
Posted by: bim
» RE: Most Overweight People do Eat Poorly
Posted by: YogiBear
» I almost completely agree
Posted by: truebelledotcom
Comments are closed-
Posted by: Jeff Hoffman on Oct 17, 2007 12:28 AM
Current rating: 2 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
My European friends often comment on how fat Americans are. These friends are generally working class and very left leaning, so this isn't some elitist crap they're laying on us. Most fat Americans have no one but themselves to blame for being fat, because they don't take the time or effort to exercise or eat properly. It's time the left began to realize that people ARE responsible for their actions and everything can't be blamed on the rich; let's save blaming them for what they're really responsible for, there's plenty of it.
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» Noone but themselves to blame?
Posted by: jparsons
» RE: Noone but themselves to blame?
Posted by: lepidopteryx
» Sigh - OK, how well is YOUR obvious solution working for the USA?
Posted by: jparsons
» RE: Sigh - OK, how well is YOUR obvious solution working for the USA?
Posted by: lepidopteryx
» RE: Sigh - OK, how well is YOUR obvious solution working for the USA?
Posted by: VannaLaRoche
» RE: Sigh - OK, how well is YOUR obvious solution working for the USA?
Posted by: lepidopteryx
» RE: Sigh - OK, how well is YOUR obvious solution working for the USA?
Posted by: Jeff Hoffman
» Junk food is actually more expensive than real food
Posted by: Cathyc
» RE: Junk food is actually more expensive than real food
Posted by: angryyoungwoman
» You totally NAILED the way I think!
Posted by: hagwind
» RE: Point taken...
Posted by: EagleMB
» RE: Despite the marketing, you can still choose to eat less or exercise more...
Posted by: EagleMB
» RE: Noone but themselves to blame?
Posted by: Joe
» RE: How About Taking Personal Responsibility
Posted by: terihu
» RE: How About Taking Personal Responsibility
Posted by: debjbaba
» RE: How About Taking Personal Responsibility
Posted by: Catwoman
» RE: How About Taking Personal Responsibility
Posted by: Jeff Hoffman
» RE: How About Taking Personal Responsibility
Posted by: DaBear
» RE: How About Taking Personal Responsibility
Posted by: Jeff Hoffman
» Very Sad...
Posted by: bcgirl125
» RE: How About Taking Personal Responsibility
Posted by: Smartcookie
Comments are closed-
Posted by: Lily H. on Oct 17, 2007 12:47 AM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
who, until very recently, worked two jobs, six days a week, and
could only squeeze in one weekend afternoon (after work) a
swim at my local "Y". I worked out for three years, and made
much progress on my physique, but also note that without a
car, I was not able to work out more often.
Two years ago, I was suddenly diagnosed with Stage IV breast cancer, had to move to a smaller residence (where I now live
alone, my kids are now grown), and cope with my new illness
as best as I could living on S.S.I.
What I've discovered that compared to my previous working life, I now had time to focus on physical health, learn to be
able to pamper myself, and eat healthier than I used to.
What I've also discovered is it takes a lot of work to eat
healthier, as I've noted, you can't keep a head of lettuce
(or any produce, for that matter) for a week in your fridge.
In order to be able to just keep up a regimen of healthy eating, you have to shop several times a week to keep
fresh fruits and vegetables available for most every meal.
There is no way on God's earth with the kind of grueling
schedule I used to keep that I could have the luxury of
sashaying off to my local health food produce store to
keep fresh food on hand as I can now that I no longer am
working.
I also note the plethora of obesity-oriented reality shows;
that of "Big Medicine" and "The Biggest Loser". My daughter
and I were just discussing these shows earlier this evening,
and I hypothesized that shows like this are being made to
create a sense of revulsion for viewers who are warned
either to not get fat, or this is where you will wind up.
My daughter pointedly noticed many of the "Biggest Loser"
contestants were paraded in front of the viewing audiences
with extremely noticeable flaws about their bodies, as well
as "just fat", so to speak, and wondered if they felt self-
conscious about being on TV.
I can't help but wonder if this is truly the intent of the
minds behind these shows, and simply trotting out the "lose
weight, get healthy" is just a smoke-screen for fat hatred?
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» RE: Obesity IS a Class Issue
Posted by: Urstrly
» RE: Obesity IS a Class Issue
Posted by: hagwind
» RE: Obesity IS a Class Issue
Posted by: GLG
» RE: Obesity IS a Class Issue
Posted by: angryyoungwoman
» RE: Obesity IS a Class Issue
Posted by: Babushka
Comments are closed-
Posted by: Cruella on Oct 17, 2007 1:41 AM
Current rating: Not yet rated [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
» RE: Sponsorship of Professional Sports
Posted by: DaBear
Comments are closed-
Posted by: kepstein7777 on Oct 17, 2007 2:43 AM
Current rating: 1 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
2. If being poor makes you fat, then how do you explain all the poor people in 3rd world countries who aren't fat?
3. Exercise is a key component of weight control, yet so few people do it. Taking a walk around the block doesn't cost anything.
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» RE: 2.9
Posted by: ankhet
» RE: 2.9
Posted by: hagwind
» RE: 2.9
Posted by: ankhet
» RE: 2.9 but...............
Posted by: ellie
» Somr third worlders ARE fat
Posted by: Democratic Socialist
» RE: Somr third worlders ARE fat
Posted by: ankhet
» RE: Some third worlders ARE fat
Posted by: grethart
» RE: 2.9
Posted by: JERSEYDAN
» The third world
Posted by: YogiBear
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Posted by: drricklippin on Oct 17, 2007 4:28 AM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Also increased stress, also associated with low SES ,definitely increases especially abdomenal obesity. The biology of this is well defined.
Great article!
Dr. Rick Lippin
http://medicalcrises.blogspot.com
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Posted by: aislinnluv on Oct 17, 2007 4:43 AM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
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» RE: do you read labels? Do you know about the farm bill?
Posted by: purplewarrior
» The high art of label reading
Posted by: jparsons
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Posted by: diof09 on Oct 17, 2007 4:53 AM
Current rating: 2 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
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» RE: Isn't It Ironic
Posted by: phatkhat
» RE: Isn't It Ironic
Posted by: realmuzik
» RE: Isn't It Ironic
Posted by: sunspot
» You Nailed It Sunspot!
Posted by: diof09
» RE: Isn't It Ironic
Posted by: ankhet
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Posted by: El Hombre Malo on Oct 17, 2007 4:54 AM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
The hour passed and I went to get my test results (remember, these tests were just a procedure prior to a surgery I was going to have at a diferent clinic with a diferent doctor). The first thing the doctor said when I entered his office, and I mean before saying "hello" or "please sit down" was:
You are too fat, have to lose weight. And quit smoking.
...I dont smoke
He looked briefly at me over his glasses and continued; I had to exercise, lose weight, eat better, stop drinking and stop smoking (obviously he didnt believe me). I was worried, of course. I asked what was the problem with my tests and he didnt awnser, he just rambled for like 5 minutes about healthy lifestyles and the dangers of alcohol and (again) smoking. I went from worried to angry and then he admited there wasnt anything in a dangerous area in my tests, but that he perceived a "trend".
I was beign lectured. He didnt really looked at my tests, he simply smelt beer in my breath because I had just had lunch and decided I was a heavy drinker. He called me fat (not overweight) because he compared my height to my weight but didnt really stop to contemplate my shoulder width or muscular development. He told me to exercise but didnt ask me if I did (and I did, and I do). He just tried to make me fit into a template, because thats easier than talking to each patient.
And the funniest thing is that he was smoking in his office and shaped like a big ball.
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Posted by: rocketman on Oct 17, 2007 5:13 AM
Current rating: 1 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
As far as doctors, they see an overweight person walk in and they see health risks. Most are not about coddling their patients - and many over weight people are the way they are due to self control issues. You go to a doctor to address the medical problems resulting from excess weight, go to a fitness professional to help rid you of the weight!
You wont find many docs willing to hold your hand and say it's alright, have another pie!
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Posted by: NoPCZone on Oct 17, 2007 5:14 AM
Current rating: 2 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
For all of the nonsense regarding weight loss the plain and simple fact that if one consumes more calories than one needs they will gain weight. That leaves 3 options:
1- decrease intake
2- increase caloric burn
3- some combination of 1 & 2
The only other option is to remain obese. There are no magic pills, diets or shortcuts.
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» RE: Points of Order
Posted by: davidbdr
» RE: Points of Order
Posted by: JERSEYDAN
» RE: Points of Order--FROM AN IDIOT?
Posted by: carcinoid112
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Posted by: ProgressiveManiac on Oct 17, 2007 5:27 AM
Current rating: 3 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
All of my life I have been heavier than I thought healthy. Like most Americans I have enough heavy relatives that it was easy to blame my genes. Nonetheless, I tried many diets, most of which worked briefly, but I always regained my previous weight and then some.
However, in 2002 I tried one more diet, lost 30 pounds and it has stayed off. I'm still a bit heavier than I would like, but now at 62 I'm back to what I weighed in high school.
I'm not promoting the particular diet so much as I suggesting that the large amount of sugar in the typical American diet is the cause of much of the obesity in America. The diet I went on is the South Beach diet, but I don't think the particular diet is what is so important. I do not follow the diet any more but I do follow its main rule which is to avoid sugar. Secondary to that is to reduce the amount of highly refined carbohydrates.
Seriously, the main thing I do is avoid sugars. Not that this is easy - you have to read labels at the store. Almost every product in the store has lots of sugar in it (often in the form of high fructose corn syrup), but there are some exceptions. Find those exceptions and eat them instead.
Although you will miss sugar at first, your taste buds will adapt in a few weeks and you will find much of the food on the market excessively sweet. You won't even want to eat it.
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» RE: Sugar
Posted by: indradawn
» RE: Sugar
Posted by: rocketman
» Amen: cut the sugar
Posted by: sunspot
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Posted by: Jasonix on Oct 17, 2007 5:40 AM
Current rating: 2 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Being fat is unhealthy. You not only hurt yourself, but you hurt your family when you die young and when you become crippled and require your loved ones to care for you. You hurt society when our medical resources are absorbed by your care. You place a burden on public transportation, movie theaters, taxi cabs, and just about every single public accommodation. The rest of us have a very real interest in encouraging you to be healthy. Once upon a time, churches preached this as a moral truth - gluttony was a deadly sin.
If you have a medical issue that prevents you from losing weight, you have my profound sympathy. If you are addicted to food, I recognize that you have a serious problem that will require a long, hard struggle. But that struggle is worth it.
Please, if any overweight people are reading this article, don't fall for the "fat's rights" nonsense. It's not like you're black, the wrong gender, or even gay. You have a medical problem. Get help - for the sake of your family as much as yourself.
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» Sorry, but you're REALLY wrong
Posted by: hagwind
» Hmmmm....
Posted by: kepstein7777
» RE: Sorry, but being a bigot is wrong
Posted by: Catwoman
» RE: In context, all is clear
Posted by: Jasonix
» RE: In context, all is not clear - assumptions
Posted by: Catwoman
» There you go again!
Posted by: hagwind
» RE: In context, all is clear
Posted by: JERSEYDAN
» RE: Sorry, but being fat is wrong
Posted by: maestra
» RE: Sorry, but being fat is not like being gay
Posted by: Jasonix
» RE: Sorry, but being fat is wrong
Posted by: carcinoid112
Comments are closed-
Posted by: Iconoclast421 on Oct 17, 2007 6:31 AM
Current rating: 2 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
In Atlanta, Lake Lanier is at dangerously low levels. I am assuming that with the right amount of rationing they wont reach the point where people start dying. But you just never know... because people can be so damn dumb. If people cant even care about their own bodies, what guarantee is there that people will do anything to stop even an imminent disaster or crisis? There is none. On a primal level, I think that's why people hate fat. Think about it this way. Let's say something were to happen where you were forced to run a fairly long distance. Take an approaching tornado for example. Or if you're a Fox News viewer, take an Iranian guerilla terrorist incident as an example. ;) Or even just someone going postal. God knows that happens enough times to consider the possibility you might be involved in something like that sooner or later.
In any of those situations, if someone close to you is carrying around a lot of dead weight, then there's the chance that they wont make it very far and are likely to be sucked up, or mowed down by gun fire or whatever. Who would want to risk their life helping someone who is carrying around an extra 40 lb backpack in a crisis situation? That would be stupid. It's like when people are evacuating a burning building and there's that one stupid idiot who is trying to grab all his material possessions and he ends up being swallowed by the flames. To someone like that, I'd be saying "get rid of that stupid crap you're carrying, what kind of fool are you?" But of course when it is body fat you cant do that. And people need to start thinking about that because we've been so lazy and have made so many irresponsible economic choices that there is no guarantee there will be ample food supplies 5 years from now. The lardasses will, ironically, be the first ones to starve to death.
We may wake up and find ourselves in a world where there is not enough of the basic necessities of life. It could be anything from a power outtage to an oil crisis. In such a scenario, the fat people will not be treated too well. When there's 1000 people and only enough food to feed one hundred, you can bet there will be some injustices. So you have a couple very simple choices. Either say "C'est La Vie, that will never happen in my lifetime"... or get healthy. Or at least look healthy anyway. But if c'est la vie is your attitude, then dont expect to be treated very well if "what will be will be" ends up becoming the reality!
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» RE: People should be fat phobic
Posted by: Jasonix
» RE: People should be fat phobic
Posted by: phatkhat
» RE: People should be fat phobic
Posted by: Iconoclast421
» RE: People should be fat phobic
Posted by: yesman
» RE: People should be fat phobic
Posted by: Iconoclast421
» RE: For the record, I am not Iconoclast
Posted by: Jasonix
» RE: People should be fat phobic
Posted by: ankhet
Comments are closed-
Posted by: dwatkins9 on Oct 17, 2007 6:50 AM
Current rating: 2 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Why won't similar tactics work with the obese?
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» Or maybe we could get fat people to START smoking
Posted by: war_on_tara
» RE: Or maybe we could get fat people to START smoking
Posted by: JERSEYDAN
» RE: Obesity and smoking
Posted by: kabac55
» RE: Obesity and smoking
Posted by: maestra
» That's a strange assertion
Posted by: war_on_tara
» Humiliation is in the smokers' own heads
Posted by: jparsons
» RE: Humiliation is in the smokers' own heads
Posted by: hagwind
» RE: Humiliation is in the smokers' own heads
Posted by: dwatkins9
» RE: Obesity and smoking
Posted by: carcinoid112
Comments are closed-
Posted by: lepidopteryx on Oct 17, 2007 7:31 AM
Current rating: 2 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
We have a three-person household (actually four at the moment because a friend of my daughter's is living with us temporarily), and a combined household income of under 25K. With that, we pay rent, insurance and maintenance on 12-year-old cars with combined mileage over 400K, utilities, my daughter's school expenses (public school, not private - but even public school isn't free, especially for graduating seniors), and groceries. We're not destitute, but we're definitely below middle class, living paycheck to paycheck. I manage to feed my family healthy food without spending a fortune. I read labels - if it contains HFCS, it generally doesn't go in my cart. Sodas and junk food are rare indulgences at our house, not staples. And I wouldn't eat anything with Nutrasweet, Splenda, or any other artificial sweetener if you put a gun to my head. In fact, I very seldom sweeten anything I eat or drink. On the rare occasions that I use sweetener, it's either raw sugar or honey.
I buy fresh vegetables as much as possible, and I find that many last up to two weeks in my fridge. It depends on the vegetable - some have longer shelf lives than others. If I can't get fresh, I buy frozen. Frozen vegetables tend to have less additives than canned. And if I buy canned, I check the labels to make sure there's no sugar added.
If I can find whole-grain sandwich bread without HFCS on the day-old rack, I'll buy it. Otherwise, it stays on the shelf as well. It's not a necessity.
Another way I cut our grocery bill is by limiting the amount of meat I buy. Meat is the most expensive item in the supermarket, and people tend to eat WAY more of it than is good for them. You don't need meat at every meal. You don't even need meat every day. Meat should not be the centerpiece of the meal. A pound of ground beef should last more than one meal. For example, last night I browned a pound of lean ground beef (yes, lean costs a little more, but regular hamburger is 30% fat, so you actually get MORE meat from a pound of lean than from a pound of regular and you don't have to worry about draining off the grease). I threw in a couple of onions, a couple of cloves of garlic, a couple of tomatoes, and a few herbs and spices, and let all that simmer together until the onions were soft and clear. I cooked 2 cups of rice, and steamed a head and a half of broccoli. When the rice was done, I stirred the meat mixture into it. All four of us ate, and there was enough left over for tonight's dinner as well. Total cost to feed four people a nutritious dinner for two nights - about $6. That averages out to less than a dollar per meal. And none of the added sugar, MSG, artificial flavors, food dyes, etc. that you find in garbage like Hamburger Helper.
We eat meat about three times a week, and the rest of the time, we get our protein from other sources - beans, nuts, and dairy.
I used to live in a neighborhood where walking was not a safe option, and a gym membership was out of the question. I put on some lively music and skipped rope and did situps and calisthenics in my living room.
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» RE: Not sure I buy the class bit
Posted by: PhantomOfLiberty
» Oh, let's not get smug.
Posted by: jparsons
» RE: Oh, let's not get smug.
Posted by: lepidopteryx
» RE: Not sure I buy the class bit
Posted by: grethart
Comments are closed-
Posted by: hagwind on Oct 17, 2007 8:12 AM
Current rating: 4 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
The author is so right that her friend's experience is not an anomaly. It's not new either. Starting in the late 1970s, enough of my friends and acquaintances had similar experiences that I decided I wasn't going to a doctor unless I was really sick.
There's a broader context to this, however. At the time, quite a few of my friends were lesbian or gay. When they went to doctors, and especially when they went to psychotherapists of any kind, it was often an uphill battle to persuade the practitioner that being lesbian/gay was not the source of whatever problem they were having. Indeed, homophobia, lesbophobia, and/or sexism often had something to do with the problem, but the practitioners of the time tended to see the problem as strictly an individual thing.
Plenty of women, including heterosexual women, have encountered the same kind of reductionism: whatever problem we've got is related to sexual activity or lack of (hetero)sexual activity or lack of a marriage license. It's goddamn laziness on the practitioner's part. Let's have more studies about how many health problems are caused or exacerbated by goddamn practitioner laziness -- which is in turn exacerbated by this country's goddamn feeble excuse for a health-care system.
I am so glad to see this article on AlterNet. One quibble, though: it contributes to the conflation that I referred to in an upstream post by failing to distinguish between "overweight" and "fat" and "obese." If you want to talk about the health risks of being "overweight," you better talk about how overweight, and then you better correct for other factors, like nutrition, physical activity, and mental health. I believe that "overweight" by itself is taking the rap for these and other factors, and that many of the admonitions that seem to be about health are really about morality or aesthetics.
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» RE: Fat and fatphobia are (still) political issues
Posted by: Jasonix
» Fatphobes are missing out
Posted by: BlueTigress
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Posted by: Suzon on Oct 17, 2007 8:14 AM
Current rating: 3 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
1976: no high fat fast foods
2007: McDonald's, Pizza Hut, Kentucky Fried Chicken, etc.
1976: most people in urban and many in rural areas used public transport or walked to local shops for groceries
2007: people drive in their cars to supermarkets and take away a huge haul, something much easier with a car
Yes, no one forces us to buy what we buy and eat what we eat, but given our stressed and insecure lives it's not surprising that we "comfort" eat.
There is a great deal of money being made out of human misery.
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» RE: I have watched fast food, supermarkets and cars (plus stress) cause obesity in the UK
Posted by: vangogh69
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Posted by: Ms. DuFontagne on Oct 17, 2007 9:10 AM
Current rating: 4 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
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» RE: Another cause of obesity...
Posted by: angryyoungwoman
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Posted by: 2dogarage on Oct 17, 2007 9:16 AM
Current rating: 1 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
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Posted by: ritadona69 on Oct 17, 2007 9:31 AM
Current rating: 4 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
The health care profession, from what I can tell, by and large is not interested in preventive medicine. They see a problem, they prescribe a pill. I know sometimes that this is to get the condition under control, but after that? When the underlying issues for disease are not addressed, the condition resurfaces or other conditions manifest themselves.
Most doctors don't know about nutrition. They are taught to diagnose based on symptoms, then prescribe medicine--or surgery. Physicians need to get on board with helping people understand how to keep themselves healthy, otherwise they shouldn't call it "health care" but "disease care" or "medical services"--because that's what they're really providing.
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Posted by: Ambrose Pare on Oct 17, 2007 9:47 AM
Current rating: 1 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
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» Take a few Tums; you'll feel better.
Posted by: hagwind
» RE: Sick of this attitude
Posted by: ankhet
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Posted by: vangogh69 on Oct 17, 2007 10:17 AM
Current rating: 2 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Obesity is part of a bigger societal problem of overconsumption of toxic materials (from plastics to McDonald's burgers) brought about by an encouraged degradation of the mind, body, and spirit. Society encourages us not to think about the connection between our lack of public spaces, expanding wastelines, junk entertainment, war, crumbling infrastructure, and why sugar is put in bread. If we're serious about tackling this obesity problem, we mustn't view it in a vacuum.
My 2 cents.
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» RE: Obesity is a...
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» RE: Obesity is a...
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» RE: Obesity is a...
Posted by: carcinoid112
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Posted by: TheNamelessCity on Oct 17, 2007 11:07 AM
Current rating: 3 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
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» RE: To be crude...
Posted by: JERSEYDAN
» Gene Pool Winners
Posted by: BlueTigress
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Posted by: militaryhater on Oct 17, 2007 11:31 AM
Current rating: 4 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Look at the SCHIP bill also supported by non-profit HMOs. Smokers don't have any legal protection so they constantly under attack and a dollar a pack rate will help pay for this! They have no rights under the constitution so lets go after them! Why not make Tobacco illlegal instead of penalizing the people that are addicted? Because corporations control the country.
Obese people do have some protection and it is called a 'Disability discrimination'. It will be interesting to see how far these HMOs and others in the insurance industry can force through penalities against overweight people..even to the point of refusing coverage...we shall see. I say SEE YOU IN COURT!
People have a right to their bodies and I grow sick and tired of the rich corporate America telling us what to do with ourselves and our existance on the planet.
Start looking at added food supplements like 'corn syrup' which is in everything!!! That is FATTENING! Big money for the corn syrup tycoons! Obesity is a Captialistic society issue...Big Brother is not on the side of little people on this one but on rich corporate America using life threatening additives to the food. What happened to just using sugar...good old sugar cane..now it is corn all the way even for Ethanol. Wake up and fight for better managed food offerings at the store! Fight for your rights and don't let government and special interest groups take your rights away. Wake up AMERICA!! Fight Back!
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» Obesity isn't a disability
Posted by: brunowe
» RE: Obesity isn't a disability
Posted by: angryyoungwoman
» RE: Obesity isn't a disability
Posted by: mjabele
» Doubt it.....
Posted by: Babushka
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Posted by: Gravitas on Oct 17, 2007 11:47 AM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Sadly, I don't predict the stigma of obesity will diminish because it is too convenient a tool for the upper class. It is profitable as all heck, and diets are a recession proof industry. So as the middle class has even less money available for consumption with oil going up, and the mortgage crisis, they will put even MORE pressure on the public to diet. It is also convenient scapegoat for some other causes of disease, such as stress, overwork, and pollution. It is no accident doctors lecture about weight routinely even if it has nothing to do with a patients health problems. It shifts the power dynamics from what the doctor does not know to what a "bad" person the patient is. Manipulation through guilt!
On the other hand, the stigma could stop if sheeple got off their duffs and did some research for themselves instead of swalling what the media feeds them. Why do you think they have to repeat the threat of obesity over and over? Because repetition is the best way to get people to believe a lie. The truth doesn't need that much propaganda. We have stigma because fat people cooperate with their stigmatizers.
I have darned near given up trying to change minds and have just started enjoying myself. I say if you don't like my derriere kiss my cellulite! And I have a tall handsome firefighter that is excellent at that. Oh wait! Not supposed to happen to fat women, let alone OLD fat women! HaHaHaHa!!!!
"No one can make you feel inferior without your consent."
Eleanor Roosevelt
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» RE: Brave Woman Courtney Martin
Posted by: yesman
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Posted by: unity1 on Oct 17, 2007 12:08 PM
Current rating: 1 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
most often this creates a breakdown in thyroid function many with low thyroid and or sluggish livers, which cannot handle so much toxins bloat and balloon up - many women expereince this especially after menopause because of the change in hormons
Most Doctors are quaks despite their degrees, they have little understanding of how a holistic body functions - people need to start replacing their doctors with a real health care professional who is versed in holistic health knowledge - the health care system (sic) should be rightly re named the sickness industry because doctors simply manage illness they do not - most of them - create health
another thing - our bodies where never designed to be able to handle synthetic anything whether this is food or so called 'medicine'
having said all this however, there are people who comfort eat, or simply plain over eat, there are always psychological reasons either obvious or buried that underpin all this
most reasons for being obese is because the body cannot handle the onslaught of carbs in our diets, nor can it handle wheat which is in just about everything - wheat and gluten are fat forming substances and they interfere with a well functioning body - which is why the atkin diet worked it was protein focused full of fat, but no wheat and no carbs
shows you how much the medical profession and their counterparts the nutritionists know - I know all this because of my own problems with putting on the weight and not being able to take it off....until just recently
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» www.votenic.com
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» www.votenic.com
Posted by: votenic
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Posted by: logansafi on Oct 17, 2007 12:17 PM
Current rating: 3 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
The author tried to enlighten some about the societal factors that are making having too much weight on epidemic. Try listening for a change instead of finger pointing at others. Diet and exercise fanatics can be more nutty than Right Wing Christian Crusaders even. Open your ears some.
Yes, there is a continuum along the individual sloth to industrious scale. But modern day capitalism is shifting the whole equation altogether. Stressed out normal working folk are getting fatter and fatter, while the well to do can work it off in their own leisurely and relatively stress free lives much easier. Plus, they can afford much better and more nutritious food. Due to this, much of our eating habits are getting more and more out of indivual control, like it or not.
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» RE: Self Righteous younger exercise crowd dominates once again on alternet diet discussion
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» RE: Self Righteous younger exercise crowd dominates once again on alternet diet discussion
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» Overseas
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» Thank you!
Posted by: hagwind
» RE: Self Righteous younger exercise crowd dominates once again on alternet diet discussion
Posted by: JERSEYDAN
» RE: Self Righteous younger exercise crowd dominates once again on alternet diet discussion
Posted by: yesman
» I'm So Not Seeing This.
Posted by: grumble-bum
» RE: I'm So Not Seeing This.
Posted by: hagwind
» Super-Ego Command to Enjoy (Your Health)
Posted by: pdxstudent
» RE: Super-Ego Command to Enjoy (Your Health)
Posted by: hagwind
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Posted by: inverse_agonist on Oct 17, 2007 12:44 PM
Current rating: 1 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
There are certainly social factors that make it harder for some people to lose weight: needing to drive instead of walk/bike, being tired from work, cheaper food being unhealthy, etc.
At the end of the day it isn't really more complicated than "eat less, exercise more." Now, eating less and exercising can be unpleasant. It will make you feel hungry, sore, and tired. It requires some time that would otherwise be spent watching television or sitting in front of a computer. People either want to lose weight enough to endure these things or they don't. Just because it requires some degree of sacrifice or effort doesn't mean it's complicated.
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» RE: Is it actually complicated?
Posted by: phatkhat
» RE: Is it actually complicated?
Posted by: JERSEYDAN
» RE: Is it actually complicated?
Posted by: inverse_agonist
» RE: Is it actually complicated?
Posted by: angryyoungwoman
» What I Wonder...
Posted by: pdxstudent
» RE: Is it actually complicated?
Posted by: carcinoid112
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Posted by: Libertine on Oct 17, 2007 1:23 PM
Current rating: 4 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
"Weight obsession is a social disease. If we cared more about CO2 than BMI there would still be time."--Unknown
Neal Boortz often talks about the problem of obesity in this country. I have no problem with this, as it's a legitimate health issue. His focus on the issue is usually his assertion that fat people overburden the health care system and are a main reason why there's so much wrong with our health care system today.
Another variation on this theme is that they're a primary reason why he believes that a national health care system ("socialized medicine" to use his words) would be impractical and unworkable in the US. In other words, he talks about the issue as a economic one -- he's not overly concerned with the health of fat people for their own sake, but rather, he's more afraid that his tax dollars might go to help someone else, whom he believes bring their health problems upon themselves.
Setting aside the idea that overweight exists for a variety of reasons, not all of them self-induced, I'm less than impressed with his argument when one considers that he rarely, if ever, castigates smokers, alcoholics, drug addicts, and others who engage in risky behaviors.
After all, these behaviors are a cause of many illnesses: cancer (which is the biggest health problem today, bar none), emphysema, other lung disorders, cirrhosis of the liver, anorexia, TB etc. And these are behaviors that are completely self-chosen -- a smoker and a drinker can completely quit cold turkey, but an overeater cannot totally give up food.
But what's worse is how he presents his views. Instead of discussing the problem in a rational, non-emotional manner, he chooses to engage in ad hominem attacks on all fat people, typically using his favorite term "lardasses". With all the self-righteousness of a fat man who has lost several pounds (though he's still far from being skinny), he demonizes fat people as worthless losers, undeserving of any respect or common courtesy simply because they are fat and for no other reason.
I don't know about you, but I wasn't brought up to believe that courtesy has a weight limit. Nor was I raised to believe that good manners should only be exhibited toward perfect people.
While it no doubt would be a good thing if most fat people could lose weight and keep it off, this is hardly a moral issue making someone a bad person. We all have our crosses to bear in this life -- not one of us is perfect. Some of us eat too much, some smoke too much, some drink too much, some of us are assholes, some of us are stupid, some of us are greedy and so on. We all have things about us that need improvement. And I don't see why one person's types of flaws should be "better" than another person's shortcomings..
I'm not a fat man, but I sure as hell am a lazy one! And there are those who would consider my promiscuity a character flaw, though I obviously don't. Yet, I am not subject to repeated public scorn for these traits, as fat people are for theirs.
The right way to approach this issue is to provide common sense information about healthy eating and the benefits of exercise, to call for healthy foods that are more affordable, low-cost gyms, and so on, not to humiliate people who have weight problems. People who get off on trashing fat people tell us more about their own shortcomings and insecurities than they do those whom they condemn.
Libertine's Blog
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» RE: Courtesy Doesn't Have a Weight Limit-CHOOSE LIFE!
Posted by: drricklippin
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Posted by: openhouse on Oct 17, 2007 1:48 PM
Current rating: 3 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
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Posted by: socrates_hemlock on Oct 17, 2007 1:49 PM
Current rating: 3 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Why should her family potentially profit from his omission of a physical observation? This eliminates the "nobody told me!!" claim. If a patient wants feelgood chatter, than an analyst is probably more appropriate. You can find one in that book with the malpractice attorneys on the cover.
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» RE: LIABILITY
Posted by: wwittman
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Posted by: djnoll on Oct 17, 2007 2:21 PM
Current rating: 4 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Several years ago, I came to my senses and started trying to seriously diet and exercise within my physical limitations after an auto accident. Nothing was working right, or at least the way that it used to when I ate smaller portions, so I started wondering why. I started learning and researching trying to find answers. What I found terrified me - not only for my sake, but for my daughter, grandchildren and all the people I now was aware of on the street who were also obese. The following are a few facts I discovered on such websites as Rachel.org and links from there.
1. With the introduction of rGbh in massive quantities in the 1970's, the average size of a newborn in this country has gone from approximately 7 pounds to nearly 9 pounds.
2. Those women and children who consume large amounts of dairy for healthy bone growth are getting heavier faster than those who do not because the rGbh is designed to increase muscle mass, body fat, and size in dairy and is being passed along to women and children who do not have the metabolism to pass it out of their bodies. The solution: Go organic.
3. Since the introduction of monoculture and industrial agriculture, with the heavy use of Round-up and modified foods, the human body has been getting larger as it attempts to offset the poisons included in the food during growth and processing. The human body is not capable of ridding itself of these toxins, so it is retaining them in fat tissue.
4. The number of obese adults has grown exponentially as we have stopped having active lives. The lack of vacations by families has led to stress and this in turn has led to excessive overeating to handle the stress. Tell you employer you would like a longer lunch hour for you and your fellow employees so that you can exercise and de-stress, and an annual vacation without fail.
5. Our children are entering puberty earlier and experiencing infertility problems in greater proportion than ever before as the result of exposure to rGbh, Round-up and toxic foods.
6. Our schools have abdicated their ability to provide physical education to any but athletes by using the excuse that they do not have the funding. This is partly accurate (communities do not pass bond issues for such expenditures), but also because the liability insurance companies made it to risky to cover the schools' exposure for injury. Work for new bond issues that include funding for a healthy food program and physical education, as well as other programs such as the arts and special ed.
We need to stand up to Monsanto, the insurance industry, and our schools and demand that they help parents take responsibility for helping our children be healthy. We must demand of ourselves that we set the example for our children by telling employers that the single most important perk we want is vacation time, not stock options. We need to make time for our families and ourselves to become healthy and strong. It is time for us to act to take back our food supply and our education system, and to tell the health care industry to stop judging and start supporting our needs by taking a stand beside us instead of pharmaceutical and insurance companies. It is time for the people to tell the government to stop subsidizing companies that are poisoning our food supply by passing laws outlawing such products as rGbh and Round-up and GM foods.
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» RE: A few additional facts and some theories
Posted by: ankhet
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Posted by: opeluboy on Oct 17, 2007 5:53 PM
Current rating: 2 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
I applaud doctors who are finally becoming aware of nutrition. Sure, there are tactful ways to discuss the weight issue with patients, but no one was ever tactful with me about smoking. I think it might have something to do with the fact they really didn't want me to DIE.
Nothing is more dangerous to one's health than being overweight. Nothing. Seeing this problem now being celebrated in commercials is nauseating. Sure obese people should be treated with kindness, just like ugly people should, but unlike ugly people, most fat people can actually lose weight and become healthy, whereas the ugly person's chances are more limited.
You have a choice. Eat oreo pizzas or some fresh fruit. Sit your fat ass in front of the TV for hours on end or take a 30 minute walk.
There is no magic bullet. There is no easy fix, no single pill that is going to do it. The nasty truth: diet and exercise.
Fat people make great healthy, fit people. I know several of them. They seem damn happy.
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» RE: Here comes the fat bigot
Posted by: JERSEYDAN
» RE: Here comes the fat bigot
Posted by: lepidopteryx
» RE: Here comes the fat bigot
Posted by: opeluboy
» Here comes some good sense
Posted by: hagwind
» RE: Here comes the MORON bigot
Posted by: carcinoid112
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Posted by: cfuz7 on Oct 17, 2007 6:24 PM
Current rating: 4 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
It's simply not true that a person is a lazy slob and a glutton to boot because they are overweight. I have several larger but beautiful friends who have worked hard at losing weight, low carbs etc. with little progress. One friend discovered her thyroid is shot. She is a professional photographer who is on her feet, lugging gear about, working long hours etc. She takes thyroid meds now and hoping for the best.
Yes, the car/fast food culture are the source of much obesity, however there are other elements.
My take has always been that the ability to put on weight was an evolutionary advantage, as our hominid ancestors, never were sure when they would get their next grub. As we are barely out of the trees in the evolutionary sense, when there is abundance, the primal response is to chow down!
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» RE: Not so simple...
Posted by: JERSEYDAN
» RE: Not so simple...
Posted by: opeluboy
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Posted by: cowgrrrl on Oct 17, 2007 8:35 PM
Current rating: 1 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Fat or thin, we are walking, talking toxic waste dumps.
Look at the skyrocketing rates of breast cancer. (More fatty tissue for pollution to be stored in perpetuity.)
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Posted by: margwa on Oct 17, 2007 8:48 PM
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For example, I once read that there is a public perception that women who wear make-up are more ambitous and 'successful' in business. Could it be that weight and body consciuosness is more prevalent among the higher income groups, thereby putting more pressure on those people to work out and stay thin.
Which doesn't mean that they are more healthy because thin could equal eating disorder, or alcholism, or drug addiction.
Plus, people with money can afford cosmetic surgery and buy the their ideal body.
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Posted by: mjabele on Oct 17, 2007 9:10 PM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
As a practicing internist, I DO happen to think there are significant health risks associated with obesity, and there's certainly an extensive medical literature to support my view. On the other hand, the risk appears to be a graduated one, with the mildly overweight carrying a much lower overall risk than the morbidly obese. This comes into play when I counsel my overweight patients - i.e., the goal being not necessarily to attain a "normal weight", but rather to lose SOME weight, which often goes a long way to ameliorating cardiovascular risk factors such as hypertension and/or insulin resistance/diabetes. Indeed, I've had a number of patients who were able to lower their blood sugars into normal range and even discontinue diabetic medication simply by losing 15-20 pounds, without necessarily attaining a "normal" weight.
For those who seem to enjoy berating their heavier fellow human beings for being "lazy" or "gluttonous", I can't help but point out that there's also extensive medical literature to support poor health outcomes as a result of other lifestyle choices, such as smoking, excessive or imprudent alcohol use, drug abuse, unprotected sex, not sleeping enough, not wearing seatbelts or motorcycle helmets, eating raw shellfish, eating red meat, using too much salt, not taking malaria prophylaxis during trips abroad, refusing to have mammograms or Pap smears done on a regular basis, engaging in certain kinds of sports like rock-climbing or downhill skiing, or even working a high-stress job. If you've really never done any of these "bad things", congratulations. I've done more than a few.
The "genetic" argument strikes me as applying to a small minority of patients, but there seems to be increasing evidence from research studies that obesity is, to a certain extent, something that gets "set" in childhood, most likely as a result of exposure to poor nutrition during a vulnerable period in youth when the body's "weight thermostat" is undergoing final adjustment, as it were. What this may mean is that those individuals who become heavy during their teen years really do have a harder time later on shedding that weight, more so than those who've maintained lean proportions since infancy. This certainly seems true in my clinical practice - I have plenty of middle-aged overweight patients who, I have no doubt, are trying with sincere dedication to get those pounds off, but who clearly have great difficulty doing so despite making changes in their diets that I, for one, could probably not live with.
We need to have a non-judgmental dialogue that encompasses both the very real health risks associated with obesity as well as a recognition of the fact that it's not "just" a matter of lifestyle, but also a matter of biology to a significant extent. The key to the epidemic we're confronting may lie in PREVENTING obesity in our young people - those whose "thermostats" are still malleable, so to speak - while counseling more realistic weight reduction goals for those who've passed that point and entered a phase of life where losing weight is more difficult.
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» RE: Predictable responses...
Posted by: kabac55
» Chew on this
Posted by: BlueTigress
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Posted by: MLO on Oct 18, 2007 3:44 PM
Current rating: Not yet rated [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Oh, and to the person who thinks produce and pork chops are safe. Nope. Produce is waxed with either beeswax (safe) or corn wax (not safe) and there is NO LEGAL OBLIGATION to label it. Pork - unless organic - is ALWAYS shot up with a corn syrup concoction to make it juicy WITHOUT labeling. How do I know this? I'm allergic to corn. The food industry LIES ALL THE TIME about what is in the food. There is NO WAY to know what to know what is in your food supply under the current legal structure.
Secondly, the researcher who has proven that the health industry is a skinny man whose research is constantly being repressed by the industry. In other areas you know that research is directed by special interests - why not this industry?
There are a lot of things that people don't understand about food, health, etc. Oh, and historically, FAT=WEALTH + FERTILE.
Which makes it interesting that since we have become obsessed with thinness fertility has had a significant decline - and ALL fertility medications cause weight gain. Hrm? Perhaps being thin ain't the greatest thing.
Pax,
MLO
http://www.mloknitting.com/
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Posted by: Babushka on Oct 18, 2007 4:16 PM
Current rating: 3 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
the drive-thru windows of fast food joints. And lack of exercise! Get up off that thang, America, and take a walk at the very least!
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Posted by: sweet_byrd on Oct 19, 2007 3:45 PM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
"Most fat Americans have no one but themselves to blame for being fat, because they don't take the time or effort to exercise or eat properly"
Translation: Fat is a bad thing that people inflict upon themselves. They are somehow defective or deficient because they do not take care of themselves on a basic level. From the level of encapsulated revulsion in this comment, you'd think people were refusing to bathe and forcibly rubbing their sweaty armpits in this commenter's face.
"I've been working out for 14 years and watching my portions. ... If you can't always control the quality of the food, you can always control the quantity. It all begins with taking control of yourself, parenting yourself if necessary and not copping out with excuses."
Translation: I don't see why they can't behave themselves if I do. And the fact that they don't just shows that fat people have no self control. They are lazy. They are like children, in their need to be taught the right way to do things -- because heaven knows what they'll get up to if they aren't supervised! Good lord, patronizing, much?
"Many, if not most, obese people are the authors of their own predicament. One cannot lose weight eating junk food watching BS on the TV."
Translation: There are no fat people who do things that are worthwhile, or even intelligent. The only thing they are capable of is watching unintelligent televised crap -- and it is all their own fault.
"if any overweight people are reading this article, don't fall for the "fat's rights" nonsense. It's not like you're black, the wrong gender, or even gay."
Translation: I don't know what 'fat's rights' are, but it is obviously bad -- how dare fat people want rights! It isn't as if we think they are morally suspect or discriminate against them in some way. They aren't really discriminated against in jobs, medical care or public perception -- they just want to think they are because they have no self control.
"If we can use coercion and humiliation to make people stop smoking, why can't we use them to make people lose weight?"
Yeah! Let's try stigmatizing fat people! We haven't done that before! /sarcasm Talk about being disconnected from reality!
"Fat people are a little too sensitive to supposed prejudice against their condition....they would do well to move away from the table, take a walk, and get serious about eating real food"
Translation: Fat people are whiners who want to blame all of the bad things that happen to them on other people. Stop whining, and stop willfully doing bad things. Don't think I won't turn this car around!
"having said all this however, there are people who comfort eat, or simply plain over eat, there are always psychological reasons either obvious or buried that underpin all this"
Translation: Fat people get fat because they are crazy.
"People either want to lose weight enough to endure these things or they don't. Just because it requires some degree of sacrifice or effort doesn't mean it's complicated."
"...take a walk at the very least!"
Translation: Fat people are lazy.
One last quote:
"No reputable organization would ever degrade an overweight person."
I'm sorry to say that this isn't true. It happens all the time -- as the comments above clearly show. There IS a moral stigma attached to being overweight, and the roots of discrimination run deep in our society.
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» Discrimination normal
Posted by: messedup
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Posted by: jimidee on Oct 21, 2007 11:20 AM
Current rating: 1 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
For all of those who say, "But I work out and diet regularly!", I say bunk. I have never met an obsese person who really worked out. I see fat folks come into our gym, usually after the new year (resolutions), and leave after they didn't loose weight in a short time. They would get on the treadmill and walk just as slow as the machine would go, pacing themselves, as it were. Then they would leave, go home and eat god knows what! Their bodies never changed, so they would complain like some of our previous posters...I just can't lose weight even though I work out! It is about levels of work, and their victim mentality just will not let them get past it.
If folks want to be fat I say "more power to 'em". If they want to be healthy, then do the work and avoid junk food and sugar.
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» RE: Fat people are inactive...
Posted by: carcinoid112
» RE: So True !!!
Posted by: danceblade
» RE: Fat people are inactive...
Posted by: ericksonml@sbcglobal.net
» RE: I never said that fat people were "lazy"...those were your words!
Posted by: jimidee
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Posted by: votenic on Oct 22, 2007 8:11 PM
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http://www.votenic.com
Results Posted Tuesday Evening.
FREE, NON-BIASED
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Posted by: ericksonml@sbcglobal.net on Oct 23, 2007 11:59 PM
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Make food advertising as obsolete as tobacco/cigarette advertising and you will cut 'the obesity problem' in half. People eat too much because they feel BAD about themselves - thus, the class correlation. Food is comfort. And, food IS PUSHED as a comfort.
Obesity isn't the problem. Our commercial obsession with SELLING FOOD and selling weight loss management is the problem.
Stop the COMMERCIALIZATION of food sales and weight loss and the 'obesity problem' will be solved.
Think for an instant! There is a HUGE industry hyping food sales to people - getting us to EAT and EAt and EAt. AND, there is huge industry hyping up to LOSS WEIGHT and get thin. Is this CRAZY or this crazy???????
Who will DARE to suggest / To DEMAND that FOOD ADVERTISING - STOP???
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Posted by: Suzon on Oct 24, 2007 4:19 AM
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In 1998 I lost over 40 pounds because I was going to have surgery. (I have never gone on a diet and never intend to. I was surprised that foregoing 3 out of 4 Chinese takeaways and pizzas and doing a little swimming (10-12 swims over the summer) could make quite a bit of difference *for me* in just 2-3 months).
Although I pretty much resumed my usual eating habits after the surgery, the lost weight has not been put back on.
Another bit of misinformation: Being lean is one of the most crucial factors for longevity. WRONG. For a long life, it's better to be "over"weight and fit than to be lean and sedentary.
I went to a gym for 6 months, using the stationary cycle twice a week. Got up to 35 minutes duration. This made me stronger and more flexible, though as a confirmed pedestrian I walk at least ten miles outdoors every week.
I am taking small steps to eating better food but I really don't mind being at my present weight. I never use my scales (sure way to make weight something to worry about). As long as my clothes can be buttoned, my weight has stayed stable.
For many people weight is a very difficult problem. It doesn't help to know that many people will be judgmental. We need to be more accepting of each other. Everyone has their unique story.
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Posted by: K.J. on Oct 24, 2007 4:05 PM
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I really recommend "The Obesity Myth" by Paul Campos. He spends a great deal of the book discussing how many ways society and business profit by condemning fat people.
Self-disclosure: I've been fighting overweight most of my adult life, but have now lost 50 pounds without breaking a sweat? How on earth did I do it? Well shucks, I've been breastfeeding for a year. That burns 500 calories a day without even getting off the couch! I can't figure out how on earth I'm going to burn that many calories once I wean the little squirt. Oh, and did I mention that she has so many food sensitivities that I can't eat any dairy, soy, garlic, onions, citrus, tomatoes, cruciferous vegetables, tuna (mercury), lunchmeats (nitrates/nitrites), beef, pork, lamb, beans, chocolate...the list is endless. I KNOW none of you natural-born skinny freaks are going to give up that much food, plus exercise enough to burn 500 calories every freaking day, while working 40+ hours a week with no money for gym memberships, just to keep your bodies skinny. Am I bitter? Hell yeah! I would never have gone through all this crap to lose 50 pounds--and neither would you--and I will probably gain it all back.
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Posted by: Morgaine Swann on Oct 24, 2007 9:27 PM
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You can't tell that a person has been taking anti-depressant medications that caused their weight to skyrocket. You can't tell that the person was molested as a child. You can't tell that they have a hormonal imbalance that causes them to gain weight. You can't tell if the person is bloated from chemotherapy. You can't tell if they take insulin, which makes it nearly impossible to keep weight down. You can't tell that they're struggling with heart disease, food allergies, depression, diabetes, cystic ovaries, cancer, pituitary problems, thyroid problems, gastro-intestinal problems, or any one of hundreds of situations that can contribute to a weight problem, any one of which can be beyond an individual's control. You can't judge people by looks - that person you think is a fat slob may be suffering in unimaginable ways and doing the best they can. How do you know the person you're looking at hasn't just lost 60 pounds? I've seen situations where a person was doing everything right, getting good results, and the ridicule of some idiot completely destroyed their will to continue.
Europe doesn't have the problem we have with obesity because they don't allow factory farms to fill their meat, dairy and poultry with growth hormones and antibiotics, nor do they pump every food possible full of high-fructose corn syrup.
What really concerns me about the way doctors treat fat people is not the lectures about weight loss - it's the neglect. Fat women get poor health care. The doctors blame everything on your weight, assume you don't care about yourself, and serious illnesses can go without treatment until they become so acute that they can't be ignored.
Everything is harder for fat people. Try going through your day with an extra hundred pounds strapped to you. Try running to catch a bus that way. Struggle with seat belts and tray tables on airplanes. Wear clothes that cost more, aren't as nice, and make your luggage bigger and heavier. Sitting in some restaurants, from the 4 star type to fast food, can be a nightmare if they put the tables too close to the seats. Try to enjoy your meal, which might be perfectly healthy, with people sneering at you. Try making less money, being under additional stress at work, being lonely, being laughed at, harrassed by people you don't even know, ignored or nagged by your family, being sick and having no one, not even your doctor, care that you have a physical ailment unrelated to your weight.
This is most definitely a class issue, a gender issue, and a life and death issue, but the most important point of the whole situation is that you shouldn't assume that a fat person is fat because they don't care, don't eat well, or are necessarily responsible for their body shape. You can do everything right and still be fat. You can get fat from being sick. A reasonable, compassionate person should try looking at the whole person, not just the fat.
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» new factors in the equation
Posted by: K.J.
» RE:"You can do everything right and still be fat."
Posted by: jimidee
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Posted by: jimidee on Oct 25, 2007 1:49 PM
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Posted by: jimidee on Oct 25, 2007 3:02 PM
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I have an old friend who is an MD and the head of pharmacy at a major hospital in our city. He takes the drug Lipitor so that he can eat biscuits and gravy every morning! He was a basketball player with me when we were in high school, but hasn't worked out since (40 years have passed). He thinks taking this powerful drug, which often has significant side effects, is "a good trade-off" in order to eat junk. I told him he was crazy! Doctors had my Dad on this Lipitor and it literally disolved his muscles. His heart surgeon confirmed to my Dad that it did the same thing to him before he figured out what was happening!
So much for getting quality advice about diet and exercise from your local doctor, unless they have trained themselves like I have. There is a lot of recent research out there about diet and exercise if you know where to look. Of course, there are exceptions...but they didn't learn it because they were doctors. Medical researchers are most often doctors, but doctors are not necessarily medical researchers.
If you want real info, go to your local gym and talk to personal trainers. Or get on-line and do your own research. It really is about common sense.
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Posted by: Joe on Oct 27, 2007 8:27 PM
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Posted by: dseilhan on Oct 29, 2007 11:27 AM
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And I promise you that supermarkets have just as much rotten, bad-for-you junk food in them as convenience stores do. They also have a lot of healthy food that c-stores don't have, BUT, if you are accustomed to eating crap all your life, it's really difficult to change your ways. This is true REGARDLESS of your income level. It is ALSO true that although it is cheaper in the long run to buy ingredients and cook from scratch, it is cheaper in the short run to buy pre-made processed stuff that only takes a few steps to fix. This partially explains why poor people frequent fast-food joints so often. A bag of buns, a pack of ground beef, another of sliced cheese, a sack of potatoes and the necessary condiments cost lots more than a Big Mac value meal. Poor people only have short-term income. That's what makes us poor.
Healthy foods spoil faster than grains. Meat (which is healthy, though vegetarians are convinced otherwise) can be frozen, but most vegetables and fruits need special prep before storing that most poor folks don't know how to do. It then becomes a race to use up the fresh stuff before it rots. If you don't know how to prepare fresh vegetables you are in for a lot of food waste. Bagged salads are nice, but we're back to the "expensive" bit again, and they aren't as good for you as some other veggies which are usually only sold whole (and if they're cut up, again, that adds to the price).
A better food stamp program would be nice, and an educational class about food prep to go along with it, but then we get into how awful it is that Those People are suckin' off the government teat, and you would be amazed how many poor people in the U.S. are leery of going on ANY government program that we can avoid. So... what to do? Sitting around in your comfy office spouting off theories you haven't bothered to check sure isn't a good start.
(The real reason supermarkets don't relocate to poor areas? They don't want to deal with Those People. They also don't want to be robbed. We just got a Dollar Tree in this area, which butts up right on both a university area and a richer part of town, and it's been there less than six months and has been robbed three times; the Kroger I can walk to from my crappy little apartment prohibits anyone from taking a bag larger than a purse into their store because too many customers shoplift.)
(And yes, I said "us" and "we." No wisecracks, please, about how I can afford to be online. Some of us spend money on things we'd be better off not paying for, and some others of us can, y'know, read and stuff? and we use the library.)
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Posted by: Camilla Cracchiolo on Oct 17, 2007 12:13 AM
Current rating: 4 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
However, I predict an onslaught of self-righteous comments calling fat people 'pigs' and overstating the health risks of obesity, demanding that fat people not be allowed to get health insurance and the wishful thinking that what you eat will almost always prevent devastating illness from hitting YOU.
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» Not Quite (An Attempt At the Middle Ground)
Posted by: grumble-bum
» I AGREE, TURN OF THE TV AND MOVE AROUND
Posted by: HistArch
» Most Overweight People do Eat Poorly
Posted by: bim
» RE: Most Overweight People do Eat Poorly
Posted by: YogiBear
» I almost completely agree
Posted by: truebelledotcom
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Posted by: Jeff Hoffman on Oct 17, 2007 12:28 AM
Current rating: 2 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
My European friends often comment on how fat Americans are. These friends are generally working class and very left leaning, so this isn't some elitist crap they're laying on us. Most fat Americans have no one but themselves to blame for being fat, because they don't take the time or effort to exercise or eat properly. It's time the left began to realize that people ARE responsible for their actions and everything can't be blamed on the rich; let's save blaming them for what they're really responsible for, there's plenty of it.
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» Noone but themselves to blame?
Posted by: jparsons
» RE: Noone but themselves to blame?
Posted by: lepidopteryx
» Sigh - OK, how well is YOUR obvious solution working for the USA?
Posted by: jparsons
» RE: Sigh - OK, how well is YOUR obvious solution working for the USA?
Posted by: lepidopteryx
» RE: Sigh - OK, how well is YOUR obvious solution working for the USA?
Posted by: VannaLaRoche
» RE: Sigh - OK, how well is YOUR obvious solution working for the USA?
Posted by: lepidopteryx
» RE: Sigh - OK, how well is YOUR obvious solution working for the USA?
Posted by: Jeff Hoffman
» Junk food is actually more expensive than real food
Posted by: Cathyc
» RE: Junk food is actually more expensive than real food
Posted by: angryyoungwoman
» You totally NAILED the way I think!
Posted by: hagwind
» RE: Point taken...
Posted by: EagleMB
» RE: Despite the marketing, you can still choose to eat less or exercise more...
Posted by: EagleMB
» RE: Noone but themselves to blame?
Posted by: Joe
» RE: How About Taking Personal Responsibility
Posted by: terihu
» RE: How About Taking Personal Responsibility
Posted by: debjbaba
» RE: How About Taking Personal Responsibility
Posted by: Catwoman
» RE: How About Taking Personal Responsibility
Posted by: Jeff Hoffman
» RE: How About Taking Personal Responsibility
Posted by: DaBear
» RE: How About Taking Personal Responsibility
Posted by: Jeff Hoffman
» Very Sad...
Posted by: bcgirl125
» RE: How About Taking Personal Responsibility
Posted by: Smartcookie
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Posted by: Lily H. on Oct 17, 2007 12:47 AM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
who, until very recently, worked two jobs, six days a week, and
could only squeeze in one weekend afternoon (after work) a
swim at my local "Y". I worked out for three years, and made
much progress on my physique, but also note that without a
car, I was not able to work out more often.
Two years ago, I was suddenly diagnosed with Stage IV breast cancer, had to move to a smaller residence (where I now live
alone, my kids are now grown), and cope with my new illness
as best as I could living on S.S.I.
What I've discovered that compared to my previous working life, I now had time to focus on physical health, learn to be
able to pamper myself, and eat healthier than I used to.
What I've also discovered is it takes a lot of work to eat
healthier, as I've noted, you can't keep a head of lettuce
(or any produce, for that matter) for a week in your fridge.
In order to be able to just keep up a regimen of healthy eating, you have to shop several times a week to keep
fresh fruits and vegetables available for most every meal.
There is no way on God's earth with the kind of grueling
schedule I used to keep that I could have the luxury of
sashaying off to my local health food produce store to
keep fresh food on hand as I can now that I no longer am
working.
I also note the plethora of obesity-oriented reality shows;
that of "Big Medicine" and "The Biggest Loser". My daughter
and I were just discussing these shows earlier this evening,
and I hypothesized that shows like this are being made to
create a sense of revulsion for viewers who are warned
either to not get fat, or this is where you will wind up.
My daughter pointedly noticed many of the "Biggest Loser"
contestants were paraded in front of the viewing audiences
with extremely noticeable flaws about their bodies, as well
as "just fat", so to speak, and wondered if they felt self-
conscious about being on TV.
I can't help but wonder if this is truly the intent of the
minds behind these shows, and simply trotting out the "lose
weight, get healthy" is just a smoke-screen for fat hatred?
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» RE: Obesity IS a Class Issue
Posted by: Urstrly
» RE: Obesity IS a Class Issue
Posted by: hagwind
» RE: Obesity IS a Class Issue
Posted by: GLG
» RE: Obesity IS a Class Issue
Posted by: angryyoungwoman
» RE: Obesity IS a Class Issue
Posted by: Babushka
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Posted by: Cruella on Oct 17, 2007 1:41 AM
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» RE: Sponsorship of Professional Sports
Posted by: DaBear
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Posted by: kepstein7777 on Oct 17, 2007 2:43 AM
Current rating: 1 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
2. If being poor makes you fat, then how do you explain all the poor people in 3rd world countries who aren't fat?
3. Exercise is a key component of weight control, yet so few people do it. Taking a walk around the block doesn't cost anything.
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» RE: 2.9
Posted by: ankhet
» RE: 2.9
Posted by: hagwind
» RE: 2.9
Posted by: ankhet
» RE: 2.9 but...............
Posted by: ellie
» Somr third worlders ARE fat
Posted by: Democratic Socialist
» RE: Somr third worlders ARE fat
Posted by: ankhet
» RE: Some third worlders ARE fat
Posted by: grethart
» RE: 2.9
Posted by: JERSEYDAN
» The third world
Posted by: YogiBear
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Posted by: drricklippin on Oct 17, 2007 4:28 AM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Also increased stress, also associated with low SES ,definitely increases especially abdomenal obesity. The biology of this is well defined.
Great article!
Dr. Rick Lippin
http://medicalcrises.blogspot.com
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Posted by: aislinnluv on Oct 17, 2007 4:43 AM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
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» RE: do you read labels? Do you know about the farm bill?
Posted by: purplewarrior
» The high art of label reading
Posted by: jparsons
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Posted by: diof09 on Oct 17, 2007 4:53 AM
Current rating: 2 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
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» RE: Isn't It Ironic
Posted by: phatkhat
» RE: Isn't It Ironic
Posted by: realmuzik
» RE: Isn't It Ironic
Posted by: sunspot
» You Nailed It Sunspot!
Posted by: diof09
» RE: Isn't It Ironic
Posted by: ankhet
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Posted by: El Hombre Malo on Oct 17, 2007 4:54 AM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
The hour passed and I went to get my test results (remember, these tests were just a procedure prior to a surgery I was going to have at a diferent clinic with a diferent doctor). The first thing the doctor said when I entered his office, and I mean before saying "hello" or "please sit down" was:
You are too fat, have to lose weight. And quit smoking.
...I dont smoke
He looked briefly at me over his glasses and continued; I had to exercise, lose weight, eat better, stop drinking and stop smoking (obviously he didnt believe me). I was worried, of course. I asked what was the problem with my tests and he didnt awnser, he just rambled for like 5 minutes about healthy lifestyles and the dangers of alcohol and (again) smoking. I went from worried to angry and then he admited there wasnt anything in a dangerous area in my tests, but that he perceived a "trend".
I was beign lectured. He didnt really looked at my tests, he simply smelt beer in my breath because I had just had lunch and decided I was a heavy drinker. He called me fat (not overweight) because he compared my height to my weight but didnt really stop to contemplate my shoulder width or muscular development. He told me to exercise but didnt ask me if I did (and I did, and I do). He just tried to make me fit into a template, because thats easier than talking to each patient.
And the funniest thing is that he was smoking in his office and shaped like a big ball.
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Posted by: rocketman on Oct 17, 2007 5:13 AM
Current rating: 1 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
As far as doctors, they see an overweight person walk in and they see health risks. Most are not about coddling their patients - and many over weight people are the way they are due to self control issues. You go to a doctor to address the medical problems resulting from excess weight, go to a fitness professional to help rid you of the weight!
You wont find many docs willing to hold your hand and say it's alright, have another pie!
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Posted by: NoPCZone on Oct 17, 2007 5:14 AM
Current rating: 2 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
For all of the nonsense regarding weight loss the plain and simple fact that if one consumes more calories than one needs they will gain weight. That leaves 3 options:
1- decrease intake
2- increase caloric burn
3- some combination of 1 & 2
The only other option is to remain obese. There are no magic pills, diets or shortcuts.
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» RE: Points of Order
Posted by: davidbdr
» RE: Points of Order
Posted by: JERSEYDAN
» RE: Points of Order--FROM AN IDIOT?
Posted by: carcinoid112
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Posted by: ProgressiveManiac on Oct 17, 2007 5:27 AM
Current rating: 3 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
All of my life I have been heavier than I thought healthy. Like most Americans I have enough heavy relatives that it was easy to blame my genes. Nonetheless, I tried many diets, most of which worked briefly, but I always regained my previous weight and then some.
However, in 2002 I tried one more diet, lost 30 pounds and it has stayed off. I'm still a bit heavier than I would like, but now at 62 I'm back to what I weighed in high school.
I'm not promoting the particular diet so much as I suggesting that the large amount of sugar in the typical American diet is the cause of much of the obesity in America. The diet I went on is the South Beach diet, but I don't think the particular diet is what is so important. I do not follow the diet any more but I do follow its main rule which is to avoid sugar. Secondary to that is to reduce the amount of highly refined carbohydrates.
Seriously, the main thing I do is avoid sugars. Not that this is easy - you have to read labels at the store. Almost every product in the store has lots of sugar in it (often in the form of high fructose corn syrup), but there are some exceptions. Find those exceptions and eat them instead.
Although you will miss sugar at first, your taste buds will adapt in a few weeks and you will find much of the food on the market excessively sweet. You won't even want to eat it.
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» RE: Sugar
Posted by: indradawn
» RE: Sugar
Posted by: rocketman
» Amen: cut the sugar
Posted by: sunspot
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Posted by: Jasonix on Oct 17, 2007 5:40 AM
Current rating: 2 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Being fat is unhealthy. You not only hurt yourself, but you hurt your family when you die young and when you become crippled and require your loved ones to care for you. You hurt society when our medical resources are absorbed by your care. You place a burden on public transportation, movie theaters, taxi cabs, and just about every single public accommodation. The rest of us have a very real interest in encouraging you to be healthy. Once upon a time, churches preached this as a moral truth - gluttony was a deadly sin.
If you have a medical issue that prevents you from losing weight, you have my profound sympathy. If you are addicted to food, I recognize that you have a serious problem that will require a long, hard struggle. But that struggle is worth it.
Please, if any overweight people are reading this article, don't fall for the "fat's rights" nonsense. It's not like you're black, the wrong gender, or even gay. You have a medical problem. Get help - for the sake of your family as much as yourself.
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» Sorry, but you're REALLY wrong
Posted by: hagwind
» Hmmmm....
Posted by: kepstein7777
» RE: Sorry, but being a bigot is wrong
Posted by: Catwoman
» RE: In context, all is clear
Posted by: Jasonix
» RE: In context, all is not clear - assumptions
Posted by: Catwoman
» There you go again!
Posted by: hagwind
» RE: In context, all is clear
Posted by: JERSEYDAN
» RE: Sorry, but being fat is wrong
Posted by: maestra
» RE: Sorry, but being fat is not like being gay
Posted by: Jasonix
» RE: Sorry, but being fat is wrong
Posted by: carcinoid112
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Posted by: Iconoclast421 on Oct 17, 2007 6:31 AM
Current rating: 2 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
In Atlanta, Lake Lanier is at dangerously low levels. I am assuming that with the right amount of rationing they wont reach the point where people start dying. But you just never know... because people can be so damn dumb. If people cant even care about their own bodies, what guarantee is there that people will do anything to stop even an imminent disaster or crisis? There is none. On a primal level, I think that's why people hate fat. Think about it this way. Let's say something were to happen where you were forced to run a fairly long distance. Take an approaching tornado for example. Or if you're a Fox News viewer, take an Iranian guerilla terrorist incident as an example. ;) Or even just someone going postal. God knows that happens enough times to consider the possibility you might be involved in something like that sooner or later.
In any of those situations, if someone close to you is carrying around a lot of dead weight, then there's the chance that they wont make it very far and are likely to be sucked up, or mowed down by gun fire or whatever. Who would want to risk their life helping someone who is carrying around an extra 40 lb backpack in a crisis situation? That would be stupid. It's like when people are evacuating a burning building and there's that one stupid idiot who is trying to grab all his material possessions and he ends up being swallowed by the flames. To someone like that, I'd be saying "get rid of that stupid crap you're carrying, what kind of fool are you?" But of course when it is body fat you cant do that. And people need to start thinking about that because we've been so lazy and have made so many irresponsible economic choices that there is no guarantee there will be ample food supplies 5 years from now. The lardasses will, ironically, be the first ones to starve to death.
We may wake up and find ourselves in a world where there is not enough of the basic necessities of life. It could be anything from a power outtage to an oil crisis. In such a scenario, the fat people will not be treated too well. When there's 1000 people and only enough food to feed one hundred, you can bet there will be some injustices. So you have a couple very simple choices. Either say "C'est La Vie, that will never happen in my lifetime"... or get healthy. Or at least look healthy anyway. But if c'est la vie is your attitude, then dont expect to be treated very well if "what will be will be" ends up becoming the reality!
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» RE: People should be fat phobic
Posted by: Jasonix
» RE: People should be fat phobic
Posted by: phatkhat
» RE: People should be fat phobic
Posted by: Iconoclast421
» RE: People should be fat phobic
Posted by: yesman
» RE: People should be fat phobic
Posted by: Iconoclast421
» RE: For the record, I am not Iconoclast
Posted by: Jasonix
» RE: People should be fat phobic
Posted by: ankhet
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Posted by: dwatkins9 on Oct 17, 2007 6:50 AM
Current rating: 2 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Why won't similar tactics work with the obese?
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» Or maybe we could get fat people to START smoking
Posted by: war_on_tara
» RE: Or maybe we could get fat people to START smoking
Posted by: JERSEYDAN
» RE: Obesity and smoking
Posted by: kabac55
» RE: Obesity and smoking
Posted by: maestra
» That's a strange assertion
Posted by: war_on_tara
» Humiliation is in the smokers' own heads
Posted by: jparsons
» RE: Humiliation is in the smokers' own heads
Posted by: hagwind
» RE: Humiliation is in the smokers' own heads
Posted by: dwatkins9
» RE: Obesity and smoking
Posted by: carcinoid112
Comments are closed-
Posted by: lepidopteryx on Oct 17, 2007 7:31 AM
Current rating: 2 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
We have a three-person household (actually four at the moment because a friend of my daughter's is living with us temporarily), and a combined household income of under 25K. With that, we pay rent, insurance and maintenance on 12-year-old cars with combined mileage over 400K, utilities, my daughter's school expenses (public school, not private - but even public school isn't free, especially for graduating seniors), and groceries. We're not destitute, but we're definitely below middle class, living paycheck to paycheck. I manage to feed my family healthy food without spending a fortune. I read labels - if it contains HFCS, it generally doesn't go in my cart. Sodas and junk food are rare indulgences at our house, not staples. And I wouldn't eat anything with Nutrasweet, Splenda, or any other artificial sweetener if you put a gun to my head. In fact, I very seldom sweeten anything I eat or drink. On the rare occasions that I use sweetener, it's either raw sugar or honey.
I buy fresh vegetables as much as possible, and I find that many last up to two weeks in my fridge. It depends on the vegetable - some have longer shelf lives than others. If I can't get fresh, I buy frozen. Frozen vegetables tend to have less additives than canned. And if I buy canned, I check the labels to make sure there's no sugar added.
If I can find whole-grain sandwich bread without HFCS on the day-old rack, I'll buy it. Otherwise, it stays on the shelf as well. It's not a necessity.
Another way I cut our grocery bill is by limiting the amount of meat I buy. Meat is the most expensive item in the supermarket, and people tend to eat WAY more of it than is good for them. You don't need meat at every meal. You don't even need meat every day. Meat should not be the centerpiece of the meal. A pound of ground beef should last more than one meal. For example, last night I browned a pound of lean ground beef (yes, lean costs a little more, but regular hamburger is 30% fat, so you actually get MORE meat from a pound of lean than from a pound of regular and you don't have to worry about draining off the grease). I threw in a couple of onions, a couple of cloves of garlic, a couple of tomatoes, and a few herbs and spices, and let all that simmer together until the onions were soft and clear. I cooked 2 cups of rice, and steamed a head and a half of broccoli. When the rice was done, I stirred the meat mixture into it. All four of us ate, and there was enough left over for tonight's dinner as well. Total cost to feed four people a nutritious dinner for two nights - about $6. That averages out to less than a dollar per meal. And none of the added sugar, MSG, artificial flavors, food dyes, etc. that you find in garbage like Hamburger Helper.
We eat meat about three times a week, and the rest of the time, we get our protein from other sources - beans, nuts, and dairy.
I used to live in a neighborhood where walking was not a safe option, and a gym membership was out of the question. I put on some lively music and skipped rope and did situps and calisthenics in my living room.
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» RE: Not sure I buy the class bit
Posted by: PhantomOfLiberty
» Oh, let's not get smug.
Posted by: jparsons
» RE: Oh, let's not get smug.
Posted by: lepidopteryx
» RE: Not sure I buy the class bit
Posted by: grethart
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Posted by: hagwind on Oct 17, 2007 8:12 AM
Current rating: 4 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
The author is so right that her friend's experience is not an anomaly. It's not new either. Starting in the late 1970s, enough of my friends and acquaintances had similar experiences that I decided I wasn't going to a doctor unless I was really sick.
There's a broader context to this, however. At the time, quite a few of my friends were lesbian or gay. When they went to doctors, and especially when they went to psychotherapists of any kind, it was often an uphill battle to persuade the practitioner that being lesbian/gay was not the source of whatever problem they were having. Indeed, homophobia, lesbophobia, and/or sexism often had something to do with the problem, but the practitioners of the time tended to see the problem as strictly an individual thing.
Plenty of women, including heterosexual women, have encountered the same kind of reductionism: whatever problem we've got is related to sexual activity or lack of (hetero)sexual activity or lack of a marriage license. It's goddamn laziness on the practitioner's part. Let's have more studies about how many health problems are caused or exacerbated by goddamn practitioner laziness -- which is in turn exacerbated by this country's goddamn feeble excuse for a health-care system.
I am so glad to see this article on AlterNet. One quibble, though: it contributes to the conflation that I referred to in an upstream post by failing to distinguish between "overweight" and "fat" and "obese." If you want to talk about the health risks of being "overweight," you better talk about how overweight, and then you better correct for other factors, like nutrition, physical activity, and mental health. I believe that "overweight" by itself is taking the rap for these and other factors, and that many of the admonitions that seem to be about health are really about morality or aesthetics.
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» RE: Fat and fatphobia are (still) political issues
Posted by: Jasonix
» Fatphobes are missing out
Posted by: BlueTigress
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Posted by: Suzon on Oct 17, 2007 8:14 AM
Current rating: 3 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
1976: no high fat fast foods
2007: McDonald's, Pizza Hut, Kentucky Fried Chicken, etc.
1976: most people in urban and many in rural areas used public transport or walked to local shops for groceries
2007: people drive in their cars to supermarkets and take away a huge haul, something much easier with a car
Yes, no one forces us to buy what we buy and eat what we eat, but given our stressed and insecure lives it's not surprising that we "comfort" eat.
There is a great deal of money being made out of human misery.
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» RE: I have watched fast food, supermarkets and cars (plus stress) cause obesity in the UK
Posted by: vangogh69
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Posted by: Ms. DuFontagne on Oct 17, 2007 9:10 AM
Current rating: 4 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
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» RE: Another cause of obesity...
Posted by: angryyoungwoman
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Posted by: 2dogarage on Oct 17, 2007 9:16 AM
Current rating: 1 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
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Posted by: ritadona69 on Oct 17, 2007 9:31 AM
Current rating: 4 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
The health care profession, from what I can tell, by and large is not interested in preventive medicine. They see a problem, they prescribe a pill. I know sometimes that this is to get the condition under control, but after that? When the underlying issues for disease are not addressed, the condition resurfaces or other conditions manifest themselves.
Most doctors don't know about nutrition. They are taught to diagnose based on symptoms, then prescribe medicine--or surgery. Physicians need to get on board with helping people understand how to keep themselves healthy, otherwise they shouldn't call it "health care" but "disease care" or "medical services"--because that's what they're really providing.
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Posted by: Ambrose Pare on Oct 17, 2007 9:47 AM
Current rating: 1 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
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» Take a few Tums; you'll feel better.
Posted by: hagwind
» RE: Sick of this attitude
Posted by: ankhet
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Posted by: vangogh69 on Oct 17, 2007 10:17 AM
Current rating: 2 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Obesity is part of a bigger societal problem of overconsumption of toxic materials (from plastics to McDonald's burgers) brought about by an encouraged degradation of the mind, body, and spirit. Society encourages us not to think about the connection between our lack of public spaces, expanding wastelines, junk entertainment, war, crumbling infrastructure, and why sugar is put in bread. If we're serious about tackling this obesity problem, we mustn't view it in a vacuum.
My 2 cents.
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» RE: Obesity is a...
Posted by: phatkhat
» RE: Obesity is a...
Posted by: vangogh69
» RE: Obesity is a...
Posted by: carcinoid112
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Posted by: TheNamelessCity on Oct 17, 2007 11:07 AM
Current rating: 3 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
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» RE: To be crude...
Posted by: JERSEYDAN
» Gene Pool Winners
Posted by: BlueTigress
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Posted by: militaryhater on Oct 17, 2007 11:31 AM
Current rating: 4 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Look at the SCHIP bill also supported by non-profit HMOs. Smokers don't have any legal protection so they constantly under attack and a dollar a pack rate will help pay for this! They have no rights under the constitution so lets go after them! Why not make Tobacco illlegal instead of penalizing the people that are addicted? Because corporations control the country.
Obese people do have some protection and it is called a 'Disability discrimination'. It will be interesting to see how far these HMOs and others in the insurance industry can force through penalities against overweight people..even to the point of refusing coverage...we shall see. I say SEE YOU IN COURT!
People have a right to their bodies and I grow sick and tired of the rich corporate America telling us what to do with ourselves and our existance on the planet.
Start looking at added food supplements like 'corn syrup' which is in everything!!! That is FATTENING! Big money for the corn syrup tycoons! Obesity is a Captialistic society issue...Big Brother is not on the side of little people on this one but on rich corporate America using life threatening additives to the food. What happened to just using sugar...good old sugar cane..now it is corn all the way even for Ethanol. Wake up and fight for better managed food offerings at the store! Fight for your rights and don't let government and special interest groups take your rights away. Wake up AMERICA!! Fight Back!
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» Obesity isn't a disability
Posted by: brunowe
» RE: Obesity isn't a disability
Posted by: angryyoungwoman
» RE: Obesity isn't a disability
Posted by: mjabele
» Doubt it.....
Posted by: Babushka
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Posted by: Gravitas on Oct 17, 2007 11:47 AM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Sadly, I don't predict the stigma of obesity will diminish because it is too convenient a tool for the upper class. It is profitable as all heck, and diets are a recession proof industry. So as the middle class has even less money available for consumption with oil going up, and the mortgage crisis, they will put even MORE pressure on the public to diet. It is also convenient scapegoat for some other causes of disease, such as stress, overwork, and pollution. It is no accident doctors lecture about weight routinely even if it has nothing to do with a patients health problems. It shifts the power dynamics from what the doctor does not know to what a "bad" person the patient is. Manipulation through guilt!
On the other hand, the stigma could stop if sheeple got off their duffs and did some research for themselves instead of swalling what the media feeds them. Why do you think they have to repeat the threat of obesity over and over? Because repetition is the best way to get people to believe a lie. The truth doesn't need that much propaganda. We have stigma because fat people cooperate with their stigmatizers.
I have darned near given up trying to change minds and have just started enjoying myself. I say if you don't like my derriere kiss my cellulite! And I have a tall handsome firefighter that is excellent at that. Oh wait! Not supposed to happen to fat women, let alone OLD fat women! HaHaHaHa!!!!
"No one can make you feel inferior without your consent."
Eleanor Roosevelt
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» RE: Brave Woman Courtney Martin
Posted by: yesman
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Posted by: unity1 on Oct 17, 2007 12:08 PM
Current rating: 1 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
most often this creates a breakdown in thyroid function many with low thyroid and or sluggish livers, which cannot handle so much toxins bloat and balloon up - many women expereince this especially after menopause because of the change in hormons
Most Doctors are quaks despite their degrees, they have little understanding of how a holistic body functions - people need to start replacing their doctors with a real health care professional who is versed in holistic health knowledge - the health care system (sic) should be rightly re named the sickness industry because doctors simply manage illness they do not - most of them - create health
another thing - our bodies where never designed to be able to handle synthetic anything whether this is food or so called 'medicine'
having said all this however, there are people who comfort eat, or simply plain over eat, there are always psychological reasons either obvious or buried that underpin all this
most reasons for being obese is because the body cannot handle the onslaught of carbs in our diets, nor can it handle wheat which is in just about everything - wheat and gluten are fat forming substances and they interfere with a well functioning body - which is why the atkin diet worked it was protein focused full of fat, but no wheat and no carbs
shows you how much the medical profession and their counterparts the nutritionists know - I know all this because of my own problems with putting on the weight and not being able to take it off....until just recently
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» www.votenic.com
Posted by: votenic
» www.votenic.com
Posted by: votenic
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Posted by: logansafi on Oct 17, 2007 12:17 PM
Current rating: 3 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
The author tried to enlighten some about the societal factors that are making having too much weight on epidemic. Try listening for a change instead of finger pointing at others. Diet and exercise fanatics can be more nutty than Right Wing Christian Crusaders even. Open your ears some.
Yes, there is a continuum along the individual sloth to industrious scale. But modern day capitalism is shifting the whole equation altogether. Stressed out normal working folk are getting fatter and fatter, while the well to do can work it off in their own leisurely and relatively stress free lives much easier. Plus, they can afford much better and more nutritious food. Due to this, much of our eating habits are getting more and more out of indivual control, like it or not.
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» RE: Self Righteous younger exercise crowd dominates once again on alternet diet discussion
Posted by: realmuzik
» RE: Self Righteous younger exercise crowd dominates once again on alternet diet discussion
Posted by: lepidopteryx
» Overseas
Posted by: openhouse
» Thank you!
Posted by: hagwind
» RE: Self Righteous younger exercise crowd dominates once again on alternet diet discussion
Posted by: JERSEYDAN
» RE: Self Righteous younger exercise crowd dominates once again on alternet diet discussion
Posted by: yesman
» I'm So Not Seeing This.
Posted by: grumble-bum
» RE: I'm So Not Seeing This.
Posted by: hagwind
» Super-Ego Command to Enjoy (Your Health)
Posted by: pdxstudent
» RE: Super-Ego Command to Enjoy (Your Health)
Posted by: hagwind
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Posted by: inverse_agonist on Oct 17, 2007 12:44 PM
Current rating: 1 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
There are certainly social factors that make it harder for some people to lose weight: needing to drive instead of walk/bike, being tired from work, cheaper food being unhealthy, etc.
At the end of the day it isn't really more complicated than "eat less, exercise more." Now, eating less and exercising can be unpleasant. It will make you feel hungry, sore, and tired. It requires some time that would otherwise be spent watching television or sitting in front of a computer. People either want to lose weight enough to endure these things or they don't. Just because it requires some degree of sacrifice or effort doesn't mean it's complicated.
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» RE: Is it actually complicated?
Posted by: phatkhat
» RE: Is it actually complicated?
Posted by: JERSEYDAN
» RE: Is it actually complicated?
Posted by: inverse_agonist
» RE: Is it actually complicated?
Posted by: angryyoungwoman
» What I Wonder...
Posted by: pdxstudent
» RE: Is it actually complicated?
Posted by: carcinoid112
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Posted by: Libertine on Oct 17, 2007 1:23 PM
Current rating: 4 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
"Weight obsession is a social disease. If we cared more about CO2 than BMI there would still be time."--Unknown
Neal Boortz often talks about the problem of obesity in this country. I have no problem with this, as it's a legitimate health issue. His focus on the issue is usually his assertion that fat people overburden the health care system and are a main reason why there's so much wrong with our health care system today.
Another variation on this theme is that they're a primary reason why he believes that a national health care system ("socialized medicine" to use his words) would be impractical and unworkable in the US. In other words, he talks about the issue as a economic one -- he's not overly concerned with the health of fat people for their own sake, but rather, he's more afraid that his tax dollars might go to help someone else, whom he believes bring their health problems upon themselves.
Setting aside the idea that overweight exists for a variety of reasons, not all of them self-induced, I'm less than impressed with his argument when one considers that he rarely, if ever, castigates smokers, alcoholics, drug addicts, and others who engage in risky behaviors.
After all, these behaviors are a cause of many illnesses: cancer (which is the biggest health problem today, bar none), emphysema, other lung disorders, cirrhosis of the liver, anorexia, TB etc. And these are behaviors that are completely self-chosen -- a smoker and a drinker can completely quit cold turkey, but an overeater cannot totally give up food.
But what's worse is how he presents his views. Instead of discussing the problem in a rational, non-emotional manner, he chooses to engage in ad hominem attacks on all fat people, typically using his favorite term "lardasses". With all the self-righteousness of a fat man who has lost several pounds (though he's still far from being skinny), he demonizes fat people as worthless losers, undeserving of any respect or common courtesy simply because they are fat and for no other reason.
I don't know about you, but I wasn't brought up to believe that courtesy has a weight limit. Nor was I raised to believe that good manners should only be exhibited toward perfect people.
While it no doubt would be a good thing if most fat people could lose weight and keep it off, this is hardly a moral issue making someone a bad person. We all have our crosses to bear in this life -- not one of us is perfect. Some of us eat too much, some smoke too much, some drink too much, some of us are assholes, some of us are stupid, some of us are greedy and so on. We all have things about us that need improvement. And I don't see why one person's types of flaws should be "better" than another person's shortcomings..
I'm not a fat man, but I sure as hell am a lazy one! And there are those who would consider my promiscuity a character flaw, though I obviously don't. Yet, I am not subject to repeated public scorn for these traits, as fat people are for theirs.
The right way to approach this issue is to provide common sense information about healthy eating and the benefits of exercise, to call for healthy foods that are more affordable, low-cost gyms, and so on, not to humiliate people who have weight problems. People who get off on trashing fat people tell us more about their own shortcomings and insecurities than they do those whom they condemn.
Libertine's Blog
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» RE: Courtesy Doesn't Have a Weight Limit-CHOOSE LIFE!
Posted by: drricklippin
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Posted by: openhouse on Oct 17, 2007 1:48 PM
Current rating: 3 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
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Posted by: socrates_hemlock on Oct 17, 2007 1:49 PM
Current rating: 3 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Why should her family potentially profit from his omission of a physical observation? This eliminates the "nobody told me!!" claim. If a patient wants feelgood chatter, than an analyst is probably more appropriate. You can find one in that book with the malpractice attorneys on the cover.
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» RE: LIABILITY
Posted by: wwittman
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Posted by: djnoll on Oct 17, 2007 2:21 PM
Current rating: 4 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Several years ago, I came to my senses and started trying to seriously diet and exercise within my physical limitations after an auto accident. Nothing was working right, or at least the way that it used to when I ate smaller portions, so I started wondering why. I started learning and researching trying to find answers. What I found terrified me - not only for my sake, but for my daughter, grandchildren and all the people I now was aware of on the street who were also obese. The following are a few facts I discovered on such websites as Rachel.org and links from there.
1. With the introduction of rGbh in massive quantities in the 1970's, the average size of a newborn in this country has gone from approximately 7 pounds to nearly 9 pounds.
2. Those women and children who consume large amounts of dairy for healthy bone growth are getting heavier faster than those who do not because the rGbh is designed to increase muscle mass, body fat, and size in dairy and is being passed along to women and children who do not have the metabolism to pass it out of their bodies. The solution: Go organic.
3. Since the introduction of monoculture and industrial agriculture, with the heavy use of Round-up and modified foods, the human body has been getting larger as it attempts to offset the poisons included in the food during growth and processing. The human body is not capable of ridding itself of these toxins, so it is retaining them in fat tissue.
4. The number of obese adults has grown exponentially as we have stopped having active lives. The lack of vacations by families has led to stress and this in turn has led to excessive overeating to handle the stress. Tell you employer you would like a longer lunch hour for you and your fellow employees so that you can exercise and de-stress, and an annual vacation without fail.
5. Our children are entering puberty earlier and experiencing infertility problems in greater proportion than ever before as the result of exposure to rGbh, Round-up and toxic foods.
6. Our schools have abdicated their ability to provide physical education to any but athletes by using the excuse that they do not have the funding. This is partly accurate (communities do not pass bond issues for such expenditures), but also because the liability insurance companies made it to risky to cover the schools' exposure for injury. Work for new bond issues that include funding for a healthy food program and physical education, as well as other programs such as the arts and special ed.
We need to stand up to Monsanto, the insurance industry, and our schools and demand that they help parents take responsibility for helping our children be healthy. We must demand of ourselves that we set the example for our children by telling employers that the single most important perk we want is vacation time, not stock options. We need to make time for our families and ourselves to become healthy and strong. It is time for us to act to take back our food supply and our education system, and to tell the health care industry to stop judging and start supporting our needs by taking a stand beside us instead of pharmaceutical and insurance companies. It is time for the people to tell the government to stop subsidizing companies that are poisoning our food supply by passing laws outlawing such products as rGbh and Round-up and GM foods.
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» RE: A few additional facts and some theories
Posted by: ankhet
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Posted by: opeluboy on Oct 17, 2007 5:53 PM
Current rating: 2 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
I applaud doctors who are finally becoming aware of nutrition. Sure, there are tactful ways to discuss the weight issue with patients, but no one was ever tactful with me about smoking. I think it might have something to do with the fact they really didn't want me to DIE.
Nothing is more dangerous to one's health than being overweight. Nothing. Seeing this problem now being celebrated in commercials is nauseating. Sure obese people should be treated with kindness, just like ugly people should, but unlike ugly people, most fat people can actually lose weight and become healthy, whereas the ugly person's chances are more limited.
You have a choice. Eat oreo pizzas or some fresh fruit. Sit your fat ass in front of the TV for hours on end or take a 30 minute walk.
There is no magic bullet. There is no easy fix, no single pill that is going to do it. The nasty truth: diet and exercise.
Fat people make great healthy, fit people. I know several of them. They seem damn happy.
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» RE: Here comes the fat bigot
Posted by: JERSEYDAN
» RE: Here comes the fat bigot
Posted by: lepidopteryx
» RE: Here comes the fat bigot
Posted by: opeluboy
» Here comes some good sense
Posted by: hagwind
» RE: Here comes the MORON bigot
Posted by: carcinoid112
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Posted by: cfuz7 on Oct 17, 2007 6:24 PM
Current rating: 4 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
It's simply not true that a person is a lazy slob and a glutton to boot because they are overweight. I have several larger but beautiful friends who have worked hard at losing weight, low carbs etc. with little progress. One friend discovered her thyroid is shot. She is a professional photographer who is on her feet, lugging gear about, working long hours etc. She takes thyroid meds now and hoping for the best.
Yes, the car/fast food culture are the source of much obesity, however there are other elements.
My take has always been that the ability to put on weight was an evolutionary advantage, as our hominid ancestors, never were sure when they would get their next grub. As we are barely out of the trees in the evolutionary sense, when there is abundance, the primal response is to chow down!
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» RE: Not so simple...
Posted by: JERSEYDAN
» RE: Not so simple...
Posted by: opeluboy
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Posted by: cowgrrrl on Oct 17, 2007 8:35 PM
Current rating: 1 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Fat or thin, we are walking, talking toxic waste dumps.
Look at the skyrocketing rates of breast cancer. (More fatty tissue for pollution to be stored in perpetuity.)
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Posted by: margwa on Oct 17, 2007 8:48 PM
Current rating: Not yet rated [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
For example, I once read that there is a public perception that women who wear make-up are more ambitous and 'successful' in business. Could it be that weight and body consciuosness is more prevalent among the higher income groups, thereby putting more pressure on those people to work out and stay thin.
Which doesn't mean that they are more healthy because thin could equal eating disorder, or alcholism, or drug addiction.
Plus, people with money can afford cosmetic surgery and buy the their ideal body.
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Posted by: mjabele on Oct 17, 2007 9:10 PM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
As a practicing internist, I DO happen to think there are significant health risks associated with obesity, and there's certainly an extensive medical literature to support my view. On the other hand, the risk appears to be a graduated one, with the mildly overweight carrying a much lower overall risk than the morbidly obese. This comes into play when I counsel my overweight patients - i.e., the goal being not necessarily to attain a "normal weight", but rather to lose SOME weight, which often goes a long way to ameliorating cardiovascular risk factors such as hypertension and/or insulin resistance/diabetes. Indeed, I've had a number of patients who were able to lower their blood sugars into normal range and even discontinue diabetic medication simply by losing 15-20 pounds, without necessarily attaining a "normal" weight.
For those who seem to enjoy berating their heavier fellow human beings for being "lazy" or "gluttonous", I can't help but point out that there's also extensive medical literature to support poor health outcomes as a result of other lifestyle choices, such as smoking, excessive or imprudent alcohol use, drug abuse, unprotected sex, not sleeping enough, not wearing seatbelts or motorcycle helmets, eating raw shellfish, eating red meat, using too much salt, not taking malaria prophylaxis during trips abroad, refusing to have mammograms or Pap smears done on a regular basis, engaging in certain kinds of sports like rock-climbing or downhill skiing, or even working a high-stress job. If you've really never done any of these "bad things", congratulations. I've done more than a few.
The "genetic" argument strikes me as applying to a small minority of patients, but there seems to be increasing evidence from research studies that obesity is, to a certain extent, something that gets "set" in childhood, most likely as a result of exposure to poor nutrition during a vulnerable period in youth when the body's "weight thermostat" is undergoing final adjustment, as it were. What this may mean is that those individuals who become heavy during their teen years really do have a harder time later on shedding that weight, more so than those who've maintained lean proportions since infancy. This certainly seems true in my clinical practice - I have plenty of middle-aged overweight patients who, I have no doubt, are trying with sincere dedication to get those pounds off, but who clearly have great difficulty doing so despite making changes in their diets that I, for one, could probably not live with.
We need to have a non-judgmental dialogue that encompasses both the very real health risks associated with obesity as well as a recognition of the fact that it's not "just" a matter of lifestyle, but also a matter of biology to a significant extent. The key to the epidemic we're confronting may lie in PREVENTING obesity in our young people - those whose "thermostats" are still malleable, so to speak - while counseling more realistic weight reduction goals for those who've passed that point and entered a phase of life where losing weight is more difficult.
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» RE: Predictable responses...
Posted by: kabac55
» Chew on this
Posted by: BlueTigress
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Posted by: MLO on Oct 18, 2007 3:44 PM
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Oh, and to the person who thinks produce and pork chops are safe. Nope. Produce is waxed with either beeswax (safe) or corn wax (not safe) and there is NO LEGAL OBLIGATION to label it. Pork - unless organic - is ALWAYS shot up with a corn syrup concoction to make it juicy WITHOUT labeling. How do I know this? I'm allergic to corn. The food industry LIES ALL THE TIME about what is in the food. There is NO WAY to know what to know what is in your food supply under the current legal structure.
Secondly, the researcher who has proven that the health industry is a skinny man whose research is constantly being repressed by the industry. In other areas you know that research is directed by special interests - why not this industry?
There are a lot of things that people don't understand about food, health, etc. Oh, and historically, FAT=WEALTH + FERTILE.
Which makes it interesting that since we have become obsessed with thinness fertility has had a significant decline - and ALL fertility medications cause weight gain. Hrm? Perhaps being thin ain't the greatest thing.
Pax,
MLO
http://www.mloknitting.com/
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Posted by: Babushka on Oct 18, 2007 4:16 PM
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the drive-thru windows of fast food joints. And lack of exercise! Get up off that thang, America, and take a walk at the very least!
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Posted by: sweet_byrd on Oct 19, 2007 3:45 PM
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"Most fat Americans have no one but themselves to blame for being fat, because they don't take the time or effort to exercise or eat properly"
Translation: Fat is a bad thing that people inflict upon themselves. They are somehow defective or deficient because they do not take care of themselves on a basic level. From the level of encapsulated revulsion in this comment, you'd think people were refusing to bathe and forcibly rubbing their sweaty armpits in this commenter's face.
"I've been working out for 14 years and watching my portions. ... If you can't always control the quality of the food, you can always control the quantity. It all begins with taking control of yourself, parenting yourself if necessary and not copping out with excuses."
Translation: I don't see why they can't behave themselves if I do. And the fact that they don't just shows that fat people have no self control. They are lazy. They are like children, in their need to be taught the right way to do things -- because heaven knows what they'll get up to if they aren't supervised! Good lord, patronizing, much?
"Many, if not most, obese people are the authors of their own predicament. One cannot lose weight eating junk food watching BS on the TV."
Translation: There are no fat people who do things that are worthwhile, or even intelligent. The only thing they are capable of is watching unintelligent televised crap -- and it is all their own fault.
"if any overweight people are reading this article, don't fall for the "fat's rights" nonsense. It's not like you're black, the wrong gender, or even gay."
Translation: I don't know what 'fat's rights' are, but it is obviously bad -- how dare fat people want rights! It isn't as if we think they are morally suspect or discriminate against them in some way. They aren't really discriminated against in jobs, medical care or public perception -- they just want to think they are because they have no self control.
"If we can use coercion and humiliation to make people stop smoking, why can't we use them to make people lose weight?"
Yeah! Let's try stigmatizing fat people! We haven't done that before! /sarcasm Talk about being disconnected from reality!
"Fat people are a little too sensitive to supposed prejudice against their condition....they would do well to move away from the table, take a walk, and get serious about eating real food"
Translation: Fat people are whiners who want to blame all of the bad things that happen to them on other people. Stop whining, and stop willfully doing bad things. Don't think I won't turn this car around!
"having said all this however, there are people who comfort eat, or simply plain over eat, there are always psychological reasons either obvious or buried that underpin all this"
Translation: Fat people get fat because they are crazy.
"People either want to lose weight enough to endure these things or they don't. Just because it requires some degree of sacrifice or effort doesn't mean it's complicated."
"...take a walk at the very least!"
Translation: Fat people are lazy.
One last quote:
"No reputable organization would ever degrade an overweight person."
I'm sorry to say that this isn't true. It happens all the time -- as the comments above clearly show. There IS a moral stigma attached to being overweight, and the roots of discrimination run deep in our society.
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» Discrimination normal
Posted by: messedup
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Posted by: jimidee on Oct 21, 2007 11:20 AM
Current rating: 1 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
For all of those who say, "But I work out and diet regularly!", I say bunk. I have never met an obsese person who really worked out. I see fat folks come into our gym, usually after the new year (resolutions), and leave after they didn't loose weight in a short time. They would get on the treadmill and walk just as slow as the machine would go, pacing themselves, as it were. Then they would leave, go home and eat god knows what! Their bodies never changed, so they would complain like some of our previous posters...I just can't lose weight even though I work out! It is about levels of work, and their victim mentality just will not let them get past it.
If folks want to be fat I say "more power to 'em". If they want to be healthy, then do the work and avoid junk food and sugar.
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» RE: Fat people are inactive...
Posted by: carcinoid112
» RE: So True !!!
Posted by: danceblade
» RE: Fat people are inactive...
Posted by: ericksonml@sbcglobal.net
» RE: I never said that fat people were "lazy"...those were your words!
Posted by: jimidee
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Posted by: votenic on Oct 22, 2007 8:11 PM
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http://www.votenic.com
Results Posted Tuesday Evening.
FREE, NON-BIASED
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Posted by: ericksonml@sbcglobal.net on Oct 23, 2007 11:59 PM
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Make food advertising as obsolete as tobacco/cigarette advertising and you will cut 'the obesity problem' in half. People eat too much because they feel BAD about themselves - thus, the class correlation. Food is comfort. And, food IS PUSHED as a comfort.
Obesity isn't the problem. Our commercial obsession with SELLING FOOD and selling weight loss management is the problem.
Stop the COMMERCIALIZATION of food sales and weight loss and the 'obesity problem' will be solved.
Think for an instant! There is a HUGE industry hyping food sales to people - getting us to EAT and EAt and EAt. AND, there is huge industry hyping up to LOSS WEIGHT and get thin. Is this CRAZY or this crazy???????
Who will DARE to suggest / To DEMAND that FOOD ADVERTISING - STOP???
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Posted by: Suzon on Oct 24, 2007 4:19 AM
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In 1998 I lost over 40 pounds because I was going to have surgery. (I have never gone on a diet and never intend to. I was surprised that foregoing 3 out of 4 Chinese takeaways and pizzas and doing a little swimming (10-12 swims over the summer) could make quite a bit of difference *for me* in just 2-3 months).
Although I pretty much resumed my usual eating habits after the surgery, the lost weight has not been put back on.
Another bit of misinformation: Being lean is one of the most crucial factors for longevity. WRONG. For a long life, it's better to be "over"weight and fit than to be lean and sedentary.
I went to a gym for 6 months, using the stationary cycle twice a week. Got up to 35 minutes duration. This made me stronger and more flexible, though as a confirmed pedestrian I walk at least ten miles outdoors every week.
I am taking small steps to eating better food but I really don't mind being at my present weight. I never use my scales (sure way to make weight something to worry about). As long as my clothes can be buttoned, my weight has stayed stable.
For many people weight is a very difficult problem. It doesn't help to know that many people will be judgmental. We need to be more accepting of each other. Everyone has their unique story.
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Posted by: K.J. on Oct 24, 2007 4:05 PM
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I really recommend "The Obesity Myth" by Paul Campos. He spends a great deal of the book discussing how many ways society and business profit by condemning fat people.
Self-disclosure: I've been fighting overweight most of my adult life, but have now lost 50 pounds without breaking a sweat? How on earth did I do it? Well shucks, I've been breastfeeding for a year. That burns 500 calories a day without even getting off the couch! I can't figure out how on earth I'm going to burn that many calories once I wean the little squirt. Oh, and did I mention that she has so many food sensitivities that I can't eat any dairy, soy, garlic, onions, citrus, tomatoes, cruciferous vegetables, tuna (mercury), lunchmeats (nitrates/nitrites), beef, pork, lamb, beans, chocolate...the list is endless. I KNOW none of you natural-born skinny freaks are going to give up that much food, plus exercise enough to burn 500 calories every freaking day, while working 40+ hours a week with no money for gym memberships, just to keep your bodies skinny. Am I bitter? Hell yeah! I would never have gone through all this crap to lose 50 pounds--and neither would you--and I will probably gain it all back.
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Posted by: Morgaine Swann on Oct 24, 2007 9:27 PM
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You can't tell that a person has been taking anti-depressant medications that caused their weight to skyrocket. You can't tell that the person was molested as a child. You can't tell that they have a hormonal imbalance that causes them to gain weight. You can't tell if the person is bloated from chemotherapy. You can't tell if they take insulin, which makes it nearly impossible to keep weight down. You can't tell that they're struggling with heart disease, food allergies, depression, diabetes, cystic ovaries, cancer, pituitary problems, thyroid problems, gastro-intestinal problems, or any one of hundreds of situations that can contribute to a weight problem, any one of which can be beyond an individual's control. You can't judge people by looks - that person you think is a fat slob may be suffering in unimaginable ways and doing the best they can. How do you know the person you're looking at hasn't just lost 60 pounds? I've seen situations where a person was doing everything right, getting good results, and the ridicule of some idiot completely destroyed their will to continue.
Europe doesn't have the problem we have with obesity because they don't allow factory farms to fill their meat, dairy and poultry with growth hormones and antibiotics, nor do they pump every food possible full of high-fructose corn syrup.
What really concerns me about the way doctors treat fat people is not the lectures about weight loss - it's the neglect. Fat women get poor health care. The doctors blame everything on your weight, assume you don't care about yourself, and serious illnesses can go without treatment until they become so acute that they can't be ignored.
Everything is harder for fat people. Try going through your day with an extra hundred pounds strapped to you. Try running to catch a bus that way. Struggle with seat belts and tray tables on airplanes. Wear clothes that cost more, aren't as nice, and make your luggage bigger and heavier. Sitting in some restaurants, from the 4 star type to fast food, can be a nightmare if they put the tables too close to the seats. Try to enjoy your meal, which might be perfectly healthy, with people sneering at you. Try making less money, being under additional stress at work, being lonely, being laughed at, harrassed by people you don't even know, ignored or nagged by your family, being sick and having no one, not even your doctor, care that you have a physical ailment unrelated to your weight.
This is most definitely a class issue, a gender issue, and a life and death issue, but the most important point of the whole situation is that you shouldn't assume that a fat person is fat because they don't care, don't eat well, or are necessarily responsible for their body shape. You can do everything right and still be fat. You can get fat from being sick. A reasonable, compassionate person should try looking at the whole person, not just the fat.
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» new factors in the equation
Posted by: K.J.
» RE:"You can do everything right and still be fat."
Posted by: jimidee
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Posted by: jimidee on Oct 25, 2007 1:49 PM
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Posted by: jimidee on Oct 25, 2007 3:02 PM
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I have an old friend who is an MD and the head of pharmacy at a major hospital in our city. He takes the drug Lipitor so that he can eat biscuits and gravy every morning! He was a basketball player with me when we were in high school, but hasn't worked out since (40 years have passed). He thinks taking this powerful drug, which often has significant side effects, is "a good trade-off" in order to eat junk. I told him he was crazy! Doctors had my Dad on this Lipitor and it literally disolved his muscles. His heart surgeon confirmed to my Dad that it did the same thing to him before he figured out what was happening!
So much for getting quality advice about diet and exercise from your local doctor, unless they have trained themselves like I have. There is a lot of recent research out there about diet and exercise if you know where to look. Of course, there are exceptions...but they didn't learn it because they were doctors. Medical researchers are most often doctors, but doctors are not necessarily medical researchers.
If you want real info, go to your local gym and talk to personal trainers. Or get on-line and do your own research. It really is about common sense.
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Posted by: Joe on Oct 27, 2007 8:27 PM
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Posted by: dseilhan on Oct 29, 2007 11:27 AM
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And I promise you that supermarkets have just as much rotten, bad-for-you junk food in them as convenience stores do. They also have a lot of healthy food that c-stores don't have, BUT, if you are accustomed to eating crap all your life, it's really difficult to change your ways. This is true REGARDLESS of your income level. It is ALSO true that although it is cheaper in the long run to buy ingredients and cook from scratch, it is cheaper in the short run to buy pre-made processed stuff that only takes a few steps to fix. This partially explains why poor people frequent fast-food joints so often. A bag of buns, a pack of ground beef, another of sliced cheese, a sack of potatoes and the necessary condiments cost lots more than a Big Mac value meal. Poor people only have short-term income. That's what makes us poor.
Healthy foods spoil faster than grains. Meat (which is healthy, though vegetarians are convinced otherwise) can be frozen, but most vegetables and fruits need special prep before storing that most poor folks don't know how to do. It then becomes a race to use up the fresh stuff before it rots. If you don't know how to prepare fresh vegetables you are in for a lot of food waste. Bagged salads are nice, but we're back to the "expensive" bit again, and they aren't as good for you as some other veggies which are usually only sold whole (and if they're cut up, again, that adds to the price).
A better food stamp program would be nice, and an educational class about food prep to go along with it, but then we get into how awful it is that Those People are suckin' off the government teat, and you would be amazed how many poor people in the U.S. are leery of going on ANY government program that we can avoid. So... what to do? Sitting around in your comfy office spouting off theories you haven't bothered to check sure isn't a good start.
(The real reason supermarkets don't relocate to poor areas? They don't want to deal with Those People. They also don't want to be robbed. We just got a Dollar Tree in this area, which butts up right on both a university area and a richer part of town, and it's been there less than six months and has been robbed three times; the Kroger I can walk to from my crappy little apartment prohibits anyone from taking a bag larger than a purse into their store because too many customers shoplift.)
(And yes, I said "us" and "we." No wisecracks, please, about how I can afford to be online. Some of us spend money on things we'd be better off not paying for, and some others of us can, y'know, read and stuff? and we use the library.)
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