PERSONAL HEALTH  
comments_imageCOMMENTS: 90

Is Living Longer Worth It?

If you could live to be 1,000, would you? One writer explores the latest in longevity science.
September 28, 2007  |  
 
 
LIKE THIS ARTICLE ?
Join our mailing list:

Sign up to stay up to date on the latest Personal Health headlines via email.

 
 
Advertisement
 
CHICAGO -- In advance of the World Transhumanist Society's annual confab, Transvision 2007, the Institute for Ethics and Emerging Technologies (IEET) held a pre-conference meeting in a non-descript ballroom at the Fairmont Hotel. The room was packed with 50 or so people interested in the issue of securing the "longevity dividend." Not everyone in the audience would call themselves "transhumanists" but all were interested in figuring out how to sell longer lives to the public. This was not a crowd of wild-eyed utopians. The audience was diverse -- about one third women and two-thirds men, and ranged from doctors, professors, and economists to people who had lived in alternative communities and even a few high school students. One might think that longer, healthier lives should be an easy sell, but, in fact, there are people who believe that dramatically extending human lives would be a bad idea.

I attended the IEET conference as a speaker, to give a talk on the political economy of the longevity dividend. What is the longevity dividend? It's a way of rebranding the quest for extending human lives in a politically palatable way. The idea behind the longevity dividend was expressed in an article in The Scientist which argued that research should be directly targeted at slowing the aging process by seven years. As University of Illinois-Chicago demographer Jay Olshansky put it at the conference: It is a new paradigm for health promotion and disease prevention in the 21st century. Olshansky, one of the co-authors of the article in The Scientist unveiling the campaign to push for the longevity dividend, argues that slowing the aging process by seven years would mean that age-related diseases-cancer, cardiovascular disease, Alzheimer's-would be cut in half at every age. "If we succeed in delaying aging, the bonuses will be an extension of healthy life and a drastic reduction in health care costs," said Olshansky.

Olshansky argues that the old paradigm of directly targeting diseases is about to run out of steam. Even if all cancer, all heart disease and all diabetes were eliminated, it would add only 3 more years to average life expectancy in the United States. So if researchers want to achieve big gains in lifespan and healthspan they have to go after the aging process itself. For adults the doubling time for risk of death is seven years. If you slow aging by seven years, you cut the risk of death at any age in half, and cut the risk everything else that goes wrong with the body in half too. The idea is not to make people older longer, but to make them younger longer. Not being libertarians, Olshansky and other advocates for the longevity dividend want to reprogram $3 billion in federal biomedical research to target aging itself.

At the conference, David Meltzer, a medical economist from the University of Chicago, warned that the longevity dividend could have downsides too. For example, one should consider what follow on costs may flow any particular intervention. For example, someone is saved from a heart attack, he or she may now live long enough to get cancer which could cost more to treat. In addition, Meltzer noted that most analyses of the benefits of medical interventions measure only future medical costs. But that fails to account for total costs by including future consumption -- food, clothing, housing -- in the calculations as well.

Meltzer also argued that quality of life must be included in the calculations of net benefits and costs stemming from medical interventions. For example, Meltzer showed various interventions that were cost-effective, e.g., influenza vaccinations, and treating 40-55 year-old men for high cholesterol provided more benefits than costs. However, treating a 75 year-old with late-stage colon cancer does not -- their quality of life is terrible and the very costly treatment will likely add only few months of extra life. Meltzer was not amused by my comment that when you take into account all of the money spent on health care, that the cheapest patient is a dead patient. In the end, after all of his cautions, Meltzer acknowledged that most current health interventions that increase life expectancy are worthwhile in terms of medical cost effectiveness.

My own talk looked at research done by two University of Chicago economists, Kevin Murphy and Robert Topel, who tried to put a dollar figure on the value of health and longevity. I began by pointing out that the quest for longer healthier lives has some formidable opponents, including Johns Hopkins University professor and author of Our Posthuman Future, Francis Fukuyama, bioethicist Daniel Callahan, and former chairman of President Bush's Council on Bioethics, Leon Kass. Opposition to slowing the approach of the grim reaper also got a hearing the mainstream with The Atlantic Monthly's 2005 article decrying, "The Coming Death Shortage." Of course, they are wrong.

Next, I noted that Yale economist William Nordhaus calculates that increases in longevity in the West account for 40 percent of the growth in gross national product. Why? Not only do people work longer, but they work smarter -- living long allows for the accumulation of human capital. I then discussed Murphy and Topel's work on the value of health and longevity which shows that during the 20th century, life expectancy at birth for a representative American increased by roughly 30 years. In 1900, nearly 18 percent of males born in the United States died before their first birthday -- today, it isn't until age 62 that cumulative mortality reaches 18 percent. To make a long story short, Murphy and Topel conclude that in the United States, "Between 1970 and 2000 increased longevity yielded a ‘gross' social value of $95 trillion, while the capitalized value of medical expenditures grew by $34 billion, leaving a net gain of $61 trillion." In other words, for every dollar spent on health care since 1970, Americans gained two dollars in benefits.

Transhumanist George Dvorsky, one of the honchos responsible for the Betterhumans portal, did a quick run through of the objections to attempting to boost healthy human life expectancy, including the appeal to nature (death is natural therefore good); undesirable psychological consequences (long-lived people would be bored); and undesirable social consequences (nursing home world). If you want at thorough debunking of these and other objections to life extension, may I suggest that you read my book Liberation Biology?

Finally, theoretical biogerontologist Aubrey de Grey, critiqued the idea of the longevity dividend from the point of view of someone who is pushing for a more comprehensive research attack on aging itself. De Grey's new book, Ending Aging: The Rejuvenation Breakthroughs that Could Reverse Human Aging in Our Lifetime is out in September. De Grey said, "I am pessimistic about the longevity dividend, but I strongly support it." Why pessimistic? First, he is not pessimistic about the prospects of increasing life expectancy. But De Grey is pessimistic about the idea that the way the campaigners for the longevity dividend want to pursue it will result in reduced medical costs. Why? Because he pointed out that American life expectancy has already increased by about seven years since 1960 and medical costs have obviously not gone down. Inherent in the idea of the longevity dividend is the notion of compressed mortality, that is, the period of decrepitude at the end of life will be shortened. De Grey argues that this not biologically plausible. Medical interventions can reduce the risk of death and disability at various ages, but eventually, frailty will come -- it will just come later. As Murphy and Topel note, American men are about 6 years "younger" in 2000 than they were in 1970-a 55 year old in 2000 is equivalent to a 49 year old from 1970. Frailty may be unavoidable, but pushing it off for as long as possible is still a great idea.

Instead of pursuing the longevity dividend research agenda, De Grey wants to focus on research that would lead to what he calls Longevity Escape Velocity (LEV). The idea behind LEV is that rejuvenation interventions would repair the damage that aging produces in a person enabling them to live another 30 years. Then further research would develop better interventions that would repair the damage that occurs during that 30 year period and so forth. This series of anti-aging interventions would push death off indefinitely. De Grey claims, "The first 1000-year old is probably less than 20 years younger than the first 150-year old." De Grey believes that most people are irrational about aging. He thinks they were irrational about it in the past for good psychological reasons. "Making your peace with aging was a way to make the most of your miserably short lives and not be preoccupied with death," said De Grey. While he supports the idea of using the longevity dividend to attract the attention of policymakers and potential funders, De Grey, argues that ultimately, "mealy-mouthed messaging will not work on the public."

Ronald Bailey is Reason Magazine's science correspondent. His new book, Liberation Biology: A Moral and Scientific Defense of the Biotech Revolution will be published in early 2005.
Email
Print
Share
Post on reddit
Post on stumbleupon
Post on facebook
Post on digg
Post on twitter
Post on delicious
LIKED THIS ARTICLE? JOIN OUR EMAIL LIST
Stay up to date with the latest Personal Health headlines via email
See more stories tagged with: aging, lifespan, longevity, mortality


Comments are closed-

I find this longevity science interesting and hope to hear more
Posted by: jparsons on Sep 28, 2007 1:09 AM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
In the meantime, I will continue with my no-cholesterol,
high-fiber, high-nutrient vegan diet.

The people who use this diet look great as they age, not like
most of their detractors.

[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]

» Geez, I just don't know... Posted by: jparsons

Comments are closed-

It's important that this issue start to be discussed publicly
Posted by: Logic's Edge on Sep 28, 2007 1:38 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Any significant extention to the human lifespan will have a major impact on society.

It's important that the years gained are quality years. Not "extended decrepitude". Otherwise, it might prove to be more of a curse than a blessing.

Some extra years could certainly help women "have it all"; to have and raise children, and yet still have a full career.

Being vigorous to one hundred could let one sample more of life and change careers with regret, too.

If we start to live too long, though, the structure of society will change. There will be fewer youth and young adults, who often provide much of the drive and energy. Society might lose vitality.

Plenty to think about.

[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]


Comments are closed-

We are not meant to live forever!
Posted by: Lizmv on Sep 28, 2007 2:55 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Death is a part of life. Humans are part of the natural cycle of birth - life - death. This is how the Earth renews itself. Just as the cells withing our bodies die off and are renewed, we humans need to accept that we cannot and should not live forever.

[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]

» RE: We are not meant to live forever! Posted by: parmenicleitus

Comments are closed-

How will the society survive I wonder?
Posted by: Smartcookie on Sep 28, 2007 3:22 AM   
Current rating: 4    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
I can see longevity as the next thing to spark civil discontent, unrest and perhaps even war.

Think about all those poor people who will be sentenced to death because of scarcity and lack of affordability, I don't think market relations will stand up under the strain, why should someone obey the rules if they have a shorter lifespan then a rich person? That is a severe imbalance of power.

[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]

» This is already the case. Posted by: Coleman

Comments are closed-

Interesting Read
Posted by: dreamk1 on Sep 28, 2007 3:41 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Check out Bruce Sterling's Holy Fire. It may be fiction, but he brings up some interesting ideas about humanity's desire to extend life. Personally, I'm going to try an extend my lifespan for as long as I can.

[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]


Comments are closed-

like the burning of the library at alexandria
Posted by: KaptainSpiffy on Sep 28, 2007 3:43 AM   
Current rating: 2    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
the only thing we really miss is the collected knowledge/perspective of life that is lost when someone dies.
that, and being able to ride it out on grandmas social security until she passed.

however, for most of us, who really wants the other guy to outlive you? sure, we'd all like to have the last thing on EVERYONE in high school who treated you like you were some sort of freak. and now they're ALL DEAD. i really hated you all, i'd say, shaking my fist at the last of them as sharon dwiggins is lowered into the cold earth on a great spring morning!

if you enjoy life, enjoy the people around you (or enjoy being alone, in the dark, just waiting) the IDEA of living longer seems the way to go.

*buys ticket*

*machine jams*

but, there are those who, in pain in body or mind, who would choose otherwise. i value the dignity of that choice. especially in others.

bush is leading us along a path similar to HITLER's germany! (*Fact:every 'comments' portion of an article in alternet must eventually have this reference from a reader or the comments are closed and it is removed from the archives).

the thought, of living longer, living forever, or, as we really are set up to do: ignore the fact we are born dying, opens a door for thinking of great things, making great plans, writing plays, swimming, jogging and bicycling (at least that's what this feminine product package says on the side). most of us are just getting to understand life. and then we die. that's what's most sad. that's what we really would like to change.

life is amazing. but then again, there's always hitler.


*is a complete fabrication (but feel that material! geddit? fabrication? Material? Fabric-ation?

*punts*

[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]


Comments are closed-

Freddie Mercury said it best...
Posted by: whathaway on Sep 28, 2007 4:44 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
"..who wants to live forever..."

[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]


Comments are closed-

It depends ...
Posted by: kelt65 on Sep 28, 2007 4:59 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
1000? I can't say. If I could be 25 for 100 years? hell yes. If I were to be 75 for 100 years? Fuck no!

Obviously this would have some serious ramifications.

[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]


Comments are closed-

It's also a question of living economically productive lives
Posted by: akai ringo on Sep 28, 2007 5:06 AM   
Current rating: 4    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
As one comment has already pointed out, any significant addition to the present life span should be in "quality years", not in "extended decrepitude", but I suggest that it is also important that additional years should be economically productive years. I don't know what the position is in the U.S., but here in Japan, where I live, the entire socio-economic infrastructure is still built largely round the concept of retirement at 60 or 65, and sometimes even at 55. Politicians and judges, as the people who make and administer the laws and the socio-legal infrastructure, can go on working for decades after this, but ordinary working people are bound by regulations. And this is in a country which is currently looking at what is likely to be a very long-term decline in its population. Last year, I was offered a part-time teaching position to supplement the one I hold. I had all the qualifications and experience required, and the terms and conditions suited me perfectly, but the next day I was asked my age. On discovering that I was 66, my friend had to apologize and withdraw the offer because I was "too old". On a broader scale, I don't know of any government, much less the Japanese government, that has even begun to think seriously about the changes to tax systems, pensions, working practices, etc, etc, that would be required to enable society to cope with an extension of even a few decades, much less a few hundred years.

[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]

» my guess is... Posted by: Coleman

Comments are closed-

I wonder
Posted by: JoshuaLudd on Sep 28, 2007 5:10 AM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
.. I wonder... its taken making the world a thoroughly shitty place with a befouled environment on the verge of collapse and the creation of a violent and sick society where people are wholly benumbed, disconnected both from nature and from each other, and where so many sit in offices or factories most of the day for most of our lives just to get to an average lifespan closing in on 80. What kind of world would we have to live with to get anywhere near 1000?

Of course some people want to live as long as possible, no matter how unrealistic.... they have no time to actually live once they've taken care of their job responsibilities.

[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]


Comments are closed-

same ole, same ole
Posted by: danny6126 on Sep 28, 2007 5:13 AM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Clearly, technology to extend "life" will not be kindly extended to those living in poverty in the US and around the world. As it stands, food, technology, kindness, military and humanitarian aid are not extended to such people now. It has difficult enough to get HIV/AIDS medicines to Africa on the cheap as it stands. Can anyone seriously think that there will be a sudden burst of generosity by those in the techno-biological complex to keep poor, dark-skinned people alive longer?

The vocabulary of the discussion is all-telling: cost-benefit analysis, GDP; consumption. What we'll have is situations where people like GWB, Cheney and cronies will be living 20 and 30 years longer than they might have, consequently giving them the opportunity extend their privilege, influence and power over additional decades. Instead of thinking about the next 4 or 8 years in office, then can plan for 30 or 40 years ahead in the actions they take.

I see we get more of the same in selective longevity which ultimately exacerbates the pain of living longer.

[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]

» pfft! i suggest term limits Posted by: KaptainSpiffy

Comments are closed-

Sure, let's keep people around a lot longer...
Posted by: Trazom on Sep 28, 2007 5:25 AM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
In a world that is becoming increasingly hostile to live in due to global warming, a large belligerent, fascist military nation-state (the US) bent on collecting ever more power, and God knows what other disasters awaiting us thanks to our mass consumption lifestyle.

This article doesn't make any sense because it fails to consider what life will be like for anyone outside of themselves.

Why don't we clean up the mess around us first before we decide to expose ourselves to more of it?

[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]


Comments are closed-

Speaking From Beyond the Grave.
Posted by: grumble-bum on Sep 28, 2007 5:45 AM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
This is, of course, a fascinating subject. It could be argued that one of the major things that distinguishes us from other animals is our knowledge of death & our deep desire to avoid or postpone it.

A few years ago, I was given a "new lease on life". More than a decade of severe drug & alcohol abuse had in many ways reduced my Thirty-odd year old body to that of someone much older. I was facing general organ failure & nerve damage. My physical mobility & mental faculties were both heavily compromised. My thinking had narrowed into a constricting tunnel, & I felt weary & used up. I was preparing myself for death.

In a sense, chronologically, I was about to die at roughly the age that most Humans throughout history have expected to. On a certain level, I was resigned to this. I made a choice to keep living, however, & (although mostly very happy & grateful for that choice) I now often feel like some ancient person on their death-bed who has been given a new body & a doubled lifespan.

Sometimes this is very strange. Not unlike stepping into someone else's life in an alternate universe. I would imagine that prolonging life expectancy across the board might have similar mental effects for the first batch of recipients, although perhaps not so dramatically.

I would hazard a guess that the majority of people really pushing for longevity enhancements are probably currently in their late Fifties. They are old enough to be looking down over the hill, & they are watching their parents die off (thanks in part to existing "improvements" in longevity, many of them in extended sessions of painful & humiliating stop-gap treatments & lingering illnesses). They are likely also, as a previous poster noted, to be people who will be able to afford the miracle treatments & daily therapies required to tack on those extra seven-odd years. Most of us won't, & I doubt the government/industry will be handing out the meds for free.

So, on the one hand, we'll surely see an increase in length (if not actual quality) of life, & all the benefits that that can bring. But we'll probably also see an increased divide along class lines, an artificially extended retirement age (ugh), & endless articles about how great this all is by those who get to enjoy it. & fifty-year-old adolescents!

To me, a more simple answer might be to expend our energies to make life better for people in the lifespan we have, while learning ways to grapple with inevitable death in a more constructive fashion. But then, what do I know- I've got my whole (second) life ahead of me!

[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]


Comments are closed-

"Death is a disease...and I will find the cure!"
Posted by: OneAcre2012 on Sep 28, 2007 5:49 AM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Why when I look into this version of the future do I see a handful of ridiculously wealthy 1000-year-olds sipping tea on the stacked swaths of carcasses of the less fortunate, who still have "miserably short" lives? What we're looking at is almost a separate species of long-living humanoids divergent entirely based on economy. And this doesn't get into the ramifications for our beautiful planet. Poor thing, she'll just hurl more tsunamis at them.

[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]

» Quote From "Superman: Red Son?" Posted by: pdxstudent

Comments are closed-

AN IRRATIONAL FEAR OF DEATH IS DRIVING THIS BIZARRE MOVEMENT
Posted by: drricklippin on Sep 28, 2007 5:55 AM   
Current rating: 4    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Ron Bailey- I'll buy and read your book

But it is death itself that gives life its very meaning!

The SINGLE most important way our young nation can finally mature is through open dialogue on and coming to grips with the death and dying issue. I'm absolutely convinced of this.

The technology hype about longevity extension for exceeds the existing science.

I call myself a "quality of life doctor" who fully recognizes that, paradoxicallly perhaps, the only path to the fully engaged life is enlightened death awareness- not death avoidance obsession.

I feel sorry for those who fear death. Life is great but fear of death paralyzes us from enjoying our years on this glorious beautiful planet and from enjoying our relationships with others.

Be Well,

Dr. Rick Lippin
http://medicalcrises.blogspot.com

[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]

» Good points! Posted by: Rune
» RE: Good points! Rune is Wise! Posted by: drricklippin

Comments are closed-

Still free to die
Posted by: Logic's Edge on Sep 28, 2007 6:03 AM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
For all the people who seem to be afraid of a longer lifespan, I can't imagine you'd be forced to accept the necessary "treatment", whatever that might be.

Nor does enhanced longevity mean the same thing as immortality. People would still die given long enough.

[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]


Comments are closed-

the other elephant in the room
Posted by: mwildfire on Sep 28, 2007 6:45 AM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Several posters have pointed out one of the obvious problems with this fantasy--which is that life extension will go only to the rich and well-connected. The author likes the idea of federal money going into research--which means that, as always, the middle-calss will be forced to pay the tab for the privileges of the rich.
But there are two other problems. I'm surprised nobody has mentioned the most obvious--which is that on an overpopulated planet, the only way to make room for the tardy exit of one generation is by drastically cutting into the numbers of the newest generation. Perhaps we'd better also allocate federal monies for research into how we can forcibly sterilize the poor so there will be room for the all-powerful, selfish rich. From the point of view of society, is it better to slow the turning of the generations? The author posits that older workers are better because of experience, but the reality is that brain function, as well as body function, slows with age. Young people add freshness and vitality to society. Some old people offer wisdom--but not many. Wisdom is only acquired by those who remain open to change. Most people allow themselves to sink deeper and deeper into ruts as they age, and no longer acquire any useful knowledge.
And this gets into my final problem with this proposal. It's not only a metter of a class divide between those with access to life-extension technology and those without--there will also be a gap on the individual level. What will be the difference between those who choose the treatments and those who don't? Basically, those who grasp at extended life, knowing others pay some of the cost, are those who selfishly value themselves above others, those with inflated egos, those who can't accept death, and those who are able to kick someone else out of the way to stay on top of the heap. In other words, the least wise among us. The very last thing society needs is to sacrifice much of the newest generation in favor of retaining the greediest, most powerful, most hubristic, rich white bastards!

[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]

» RE: the other elephant in the room Posted by: Logic's Edge
» RE: the other elephant in the room Posted by: Logic's Edge
» RE: the other elephant in the room Posted by: Logic's Edge
» RE: the other elephant in the room Posted by: quitecontrary
» what about a generation gap? Posted by: sweet_byrd
» RE: what about a generation gap? Posted by: Logic's Edge

Comments are closed-

MAY YOU LIVE IN INTERESTING TIMES
Posted by: VZEQICVA on Sep 28, 2007 8:01 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
We definitely do. But there have been exceedingly dull periods of history. Usually someone starts a war to liven things up. Then everyone gets to work toward peace. We don't get to pick our time slot. But it seems that no matter when and how long people live, they all want to make "changes". We all want everyone to know that we were here. It is an interesting topic but should presented as a little less self indulgent. Thanks, ANNA

[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]


Comments are closed-

Health Cops on Steroids!
Posted by: Gravitas on Sep 28, 2007 8:02 AM   
Current rating: 4    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
These people sound like the health and fitness cops taken to a new extreme! Scary! My number one objection to them is they are evangelistic and want to impose their value system on others. To some of us, life is a spiritual school. Once we learn the lessons we need to, we move on. Deliberately doing everything one cans to extend life makes as much sense as trying to flunk 12th grade so one never has to graduate. Death is a natural part of life, and to become obsessed with extending every last second is to be in extreme and ultimate denial! If that is the way they want to live their lives fine. But don't push it on others, and don't make it public policy with some half baked stats more based on optimism than facts!

Furthermore, I have never met a person obsessed with longevity who seemed happy. They deny themselves every bit of pleasure in the here and now to get those last seconds when they are 80! But if they weren't miserable, they would not be so judgmental and need to police others. Well adjusted people respect boundaries!!!!!!!!!!!

[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]

» RE: Health Cops on Steroids! Posted by: VZEQICVA

Comments are closed-

Mars Trilogy
Posted by: pdxstudent on Sep 28, 2007 8:06 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Kim Stanley Robinson wrote a science-fiction trilogy called "Red Mars," "Green Mars," and "Blue Mars." It is about, as you'd imagine, the colonization of Mars and its terraformation. Hence the colorful titles.

Robinson is not just writing your everyday flash-gordon or something though. His books are deeply connected to prevailing political situations and certain philosophical issues. One that he addresses in this triology is longevity.

In this world, after successful initial colonization puts a foot-hold on Mars, a kind of gene therapy is developed on earth that essentially extends human life by 200-300 years. It is a vital not decrepit aging process too. There are class issues examined here as well as interpersonal and personal growth issues too. The whole triology, along with his other books, is a great read.

[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]


Comments are closed-

Others Have Said it Better Than Me
Posted by: Bab5nutz on Sep 28, 2007 9:01 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
If life could be greatly extended, then you would see the rise of an elite, who would live much longer than the people who support them.
I can see other things happening, as well.
First, the elite would inevitably become bored, and look for ways to fill their days - hell - it already happens. And they were will come up with extreme forms of entertainments to keep themselves occupied.
Second, there would be fewer new ideas, fewer innovations. With a long-lived elite in charge, there would be less room for new people with new ideas. Society might even begin to stagnate under such condition,
And I could actually see there being war, people fighting over who gets the longevity pills and who doesn't.
On the other hand, it could be that I have seen way too many science fiction shows..

[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]


Comments are closed-

There will be another option...
Posted by: hurricane hugo on Sep 28, 2007 9:18 AM   
Current rating: 1    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
uploading ourselves into machines. Freeing oneself from biology would seem to be a more efficient way to "live" forever, if that's the goal. Consider that you could "move" into a new model, have copies of you made, etc.

plur

[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]


Comments are closed-

you may not look so hot though
Posted by: punabear on Sep 28, 2007 10:02 AM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
My high school science teacher, years ago, informed the class that our noses and feet continue to grow throughout our entire lives. Who wants to be 300 years old with a nose hanging down to their lips and clown feet?

[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]


Comments are closed-

Don't forget to look at the "Big Picture"
Posted by: chugach3Dguy on Sep 28, 2007 10:15 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
If this was ever possible and started off catering to the super-rich and society's upper crust, I could imagine many
recipients of this treatment becoming depressed, bitter, and suicidal. Just imagine- everything as you know it would change. People already have enough trouble dealing with change in the relatively small amount of time we spend living. Take a look at how the neighborhood you grew up in has changed over the last 10 or 25 years. If its anything like from what I remember, the entire area looks drastically different. Forests were clear cut, wetlands were filled, farms were sectioned off and all of it converted to strip malls and condo complexes.

Companies and business changes quickly over time as well, so that would undoubtedly become a difficult hurdle to cross.
And what about friends and family that couldn't afford or didn't want this "age treatment"? Watching entire generations live and die while one lingers on may sound fascinating to some people, but I don't think we humans have the mental stamina and the appropriate faculties to cope. It's already hard enough on many people to lose loved ones and have their heart broken.

How would marriage work? Would marriage still be able to exist? Till death do you part? That's a LONG time! I can only imagine the enormous and complicated families that would arise from the 5 or 6 marriages and divorces- PER CENTURY. I'm sure some wacky fundie zealots of some kind will figure out a way to have "Super Marriages" or something, but in the meantime, I'll take it like it is.

Besides, I think Carl from Aqua Teen Hunger Force said it best when he was asked if he wanted to be immortal: "Nahh, I don't wanna live forever. Sometimes... I kinda want to die."

[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]


Comments are closed-

Population
Posted by: bookie on Sep 28, 2007 10:20 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Its natural to want to live longer. I'd like to live longer if my quality of life was good. But here's the thing,
THERE'S TOO MANY PEOPLE NOW.
We as a species need to learn to stop overbreeding. The planet doesn't need more people living longer until we are able to control the numbers we have now.

[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]

» RE: Population Posted by: Logic's Edge

Comments are closed-

Living 1000 years?
Posted by: CUnknown on Sep 28, 2007 10:32 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Most of the discussion so far has been interesting, but I think it and this article are a little off-base. There is no reason to believe that humans will ever be able to live to 1000 years of age, this is pure speculative fantasy. Science fiction, really. I love science fiction, but I assume that this article is supposed to be talking about the real world.

At the same time, I'm sure that we will continue to see gains in life-span over the next century or so.. I imagine that with the right diet, exercise, and the best futuristic health care we can muster, humans might one day see life expectancies of around 90 years or so... maybe in the truely far-flung future they might get to 100 or over for some wealthy segment of the population.

Longeivity science is important, and a growing field, but to think that humans might one day routinely live to 200 years of age or older is just foolish. Genetics, diet, exercise, and longeivity science are all factors towards determining life-span, but certainly the most important of those will always be diet and exercise. We have the potential for long and healthy lives right at this moment, is what I'm saying, and it will never get much better than this.

[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]


Comments are closed-

kind of poignant
Posted by: MMiddle on Sep 28, 2007 10:42 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Kind of poignant, all this earnest energy going into radical life extension; comparable to trying to colonize Mars. Read "The Coming Plague" or "American Plague" or their ilk: quite likely that Nature will manage to trump our best-laid plans for beating her. The "learn to explore and value Death as a part of Life" point of view is the healthiest. For that challenge, reading up on Buddhism is a good start.

[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]

» RE: kind of poignant Posted by: Basenjis
» RE: kind of poignant Posted by: cpotter

Comments are closed-

LOST HORIZON...
Posted by: morticia on Sep 28, 2007 12:04 PM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
....by James Hilton shows us moderately extended lives--200 years or so. In Anne Rice's INTERVIEW WITH THE VAMPIRE, we see how it is to live for 400 years or more. A terrible ennui, disgust and psychological decay sets in; at the same time, the vampire is addicted, unable to let go and just die, and is reduced to drinking the blood of rats. Great stuff. A fine metaphor for Dick Cheney, a real-life vampire who should have been dead long ago, but whose black heart is kept pumping by multiple space-age pacemakers...

There's no need for most of us to fret over the philosophical quandary presented by extended lifespans. It will be available only to the very rich, like the science and resources that keep Cheney alive. For the rest of us, it will be entirely moot. We'll live and die as we always have.

[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]


Comments are closed-

More life only if accompanied by more wisdom
Posted by: veive on Sep 28, 2007 12:23 PM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Unfortunately, during the past 100 years our lifespans have been increased with no comensurate increase in our wisdom. We, the people, are even dumber now when it comes to knowing how to live truly joyful existences. Additional years have not brought additional happiness and extending those years to 1000 may well make things much worse.

Note: Incessant distraction seeking does not equal happiness.

[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]


Comments are closed-

Anybody paying attention to Naomi Klein's thesis?
Posted by: Sojourner on Sep 28, 2007 2:00 PM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
She says that capitalism feeds on catastrophes and crises of any kind. The article's reported discussion sounds like an insurance salesman's pitch. "Here, you need to buy what I am selling, because anyone in their right mind has to want what I'm selling."

It's just another sales pitch, like sending a colony off to Mars. Yeah, that's where we want to set our priorities--like we need to go looking for work to do so that we can burn up our planet faster. The faster we burn it up, the more we need to go to Mars. Funny how that works out.

We could increase the average life expectancy beyond what the discussion even considers by putting an end to wars. Since we cannot seem to figure out how to do that, lets see if we can inject people with something that will add a day or two.

But the clincher is that the value of long life is best represented in the accumulated wisdom of our culture. Who today cares about that? It's gotta have buttons and led lamps and be novel. Spend time in study, learning the wisdom of our ancestors? Like it or not cool cats, we have already all the wisdom it requires to live well. If only we could get people to appreciate it and give it a try? "Do unto others." "You are forgiven as you forgive others." "Don't take advantage, even when it's easy to do." Etc.

"Ah, what fools these mortals be."

[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]


Comments are closed-

But what about the next life?
Posted by: Nedtheredhead on Sep 28, 2007 4:28 PM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Of the many opinions posted here in less than 12 hours, which shows just how important this subject is, none that I could find looked at personal belief.
If you are a Christian, or live in a Christian society, an atheist, agnostic, Muslim, and similar other beliefs, you believe we only have one life. We are born, we live, we die, end of story.
However Buddhists, Hindus, alternative spiritual believers and religions I can't recall instantly, believe that we are born into many lives. We are born into one life, we live that life, we pass over from that life into a terminal where we rest before returning to another human body to do it all over again. Reincarnation. The belief of reincarnation is that if we mess up one life, we get a chance to improve our soul by being given a new, different life full of new experiences. In other words we are run through a series of new tests in every new life we are given.
To extend any particular life, from a reincarnationists point of view, is to allow a person to 'burn off karma' in the one life, but that also means a person could live a dreadful life in one go, where as if it had been spread over many lives, as nature intended, it wouldn't have been so painful.
We live in a society that encourages personal choice, however that personal choice is wide open to strong suggestive processes intended to sell goods and services.
Take for example the cigarette industry and cigarette smokers. It is common knowledge that smokers age far quicker than non smokers, in particular the ageing process of the skin is sped up. Smokers, it is said, have choice. But we also know that smoking is addictive and many just can't give up smoking no matter how much they try. So the cosmetic industry develops products that mask that skin ageing, and again the user is bombarded with the choices on how to look younger.
We are now looking at extending life, as this article mentions, not to improve the quality of life, though that is the sales pitch, but to, again, put another product on the market to sell under the heading of choice.
For those that believe we only live one life, it sounds like a great option I suppose, but frankly I will be happy when my 70 or so years are up. And if I only got one bite of the cherry, then at least I won't have put another 20 or more years of suffering on myself. And if reincarnation is an option, that I'll come back as a new person, and without the memory of all the stupid things I've done in this life.

[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]

» Why I am a mortalist. Posted by: Sojourner

Comments are closed-

That's Easy.
Posted by: Joe on Sep 28, 2007 4:43 PM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
No. I rather live a short life of happiness than a long life of torture. The one reason I never understood people with their life is beautiful, life is wonderful statements is because quality of life seems to never enter the equation. I'm waiting for the baby boomers to die off. The longer they live, the longer they vote, the longer they control my life with philosophies I disagree with. In a sense the prolonging of life slows down evolution.

[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]


Comments are closed-

1K? Why not immortality?
Posted by: Glennk1949 on Sep 28, 2007 5:55 PM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Immortality or is that immorality? Only the rich would get the nod and then they'd hunt the lesser lived species wouldn't they? The idea of extending lifespans within REASON slowly makes some sense, however a sudden jump by huge amounts will create havoc and maybe war. Lets start thinking about saving the planet first before extending Billy Gates et. al. God status by handing him and his class immortality.

[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]


Comments are closed-

Sorry, in 120 Years You Are All Dead
Posted by: sofla100 on Sep 28, 2007 6:24 PM   
Current rating: 4    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Yea, we have all heard it before. The wonders of science and nutrition, etc., and we are going to live longer and longer so death will just recede into the distant horizon.

Make Believe. The USA lifespan has now risen to the spectacular age of 78. In the past 30 years, since the eradication of the major childhood diseases due to innoculations (smallpox, diptherea, etc.), the lifespan in the USA has not risen appreciably. No more then 10% And, here, somebody is talking about the lifespan being extended 1000+%

Hate to bust your bubble bud. In 120 years (and most likely 100 years), everyone reading this is going to be dead. No amount of tofu, granola, vitamin E, is going to save you. Nothing will. However, if you prefer this make believe that is up to you. Otherwise, live each and every day to it's fullest because life turns on a dime. And, it ain't changing very soon at all.

[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]


Comments are closed-

Worth it?
Posted by: talkville on Sep 29, 2007 3:41 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
In this society, it's a critical question to be answered with another: worth it for whom? The "science of longevity" or many of the "sciences" of today ought not to be assumed to be concerned with each of US; as with all else, the deeper motive is to extend and improve the living of "those who are worth 'saving' "

Living and dying are con-current processes. It always depends on one's conditions of existence (outside of the individual's will or control) as to whether the answer to the article's question will be positive or negative. I suspect in our society the answer to the question would be quite different beginning in the low sectors of the hierarchy and up towards the highest. Kinda the way abstracts like "outlook", "attitude", "enthusiasm" and others would go. But as long as there's "worth" to be extracted, you bet they'll keep all of us wishing to live past the 100's. Keep your insurance paid up, though, just in case.

[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]


Comments are closed-

On the other hand, folks ...
Posted by: BlueStateBitch on Sep 29, 2007 11:57 AM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Isn't it possible that if humans could live for centuries, they'd be more farsighted and begin to enact policies that preserve the planet and promote peace?

After all, if we knew we'd still be around in 100 years, we'd be less likely to pollute our environment or build nuclear weapons. Or maybe I'm just an optimist.

[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]

» RE: mck3 Posted by: mjglow

Comments are closed-

the human body was not designed to grow old and die
Posted by: unity1 on Sep 29, 2007 6:34 PM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
but the consciousness to fully comprehend this is simply not here yet.

I personally would not like to live in this world the way that its set up in all its toxic exploitive glory with endless war on the agenda - however, because we think we know it all, we fail to realise just how our stress, and handling our reactions, and our dysfunctional beleif systems all play a part in aging our bodies so that our bodies, like our eco system slowly over time, of repeated daily abuse, can no longer cope and it begins to fail , i.e get sick and eventually dies....

scientists, although seemingly intelligent are barely conscious of what a human being actually is nor its potential, thus the notion of living forever in the same mind set, the same belief system is for me, more like living forever in a nightmare than some sort of utopia

until humanity can grasp some simple basics, like love one another, love the earth and live in harmony with everyone and everything, then living longer is simply and ego driven substitute for dying

there is a fountain of youth, but its not external, its within us, and there are maps that can get you there, its a human potential to live not die - yet science will never fully grasp it even though its right in front of their eyes, simply woven within a web of esoteric knowledge that everyone has deemed nonsense because it never fitted in with the story of who we think we are

[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]


Comments are closed-

No question
Posted by: sfo on Sep 29, 2007 9:20 PM   
Current rating: 4    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
I'd work 30 years just to afford the ability to live another 300.

[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]


Comments are closed-

Aging is just one more barrier to knock down
Posted by: disgustedandamused on Oct 1, 2007 8:35 PM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
For those so sure we are meant to die, and soon...
I can find you boatloads of folks sure in their faith that the world is about to end, and that it should.
I can find mortality stats showing that most people in the past never made it past the age of five, and that was considered the way it would always would be.
I have heard people seriously say there is no need to worry about welfare, education and the like... because "the Bible says you'll always have the poor with you"...

There is always an excuse to fail, to give up, to not even try. In one more century, the combination of bio-tech and neural-tech, along with several other forms of technology barely starting now, will allow us to see our early 21st century lives as desperately poor -- lived in "biological poverty".

Go to Africa, and tell a mom watching her kid die of a simple (to us) disease that "it's natural." Once the SENS project (mentioned in the article) has a chance to make progress, statements about how "natural" it is for 99 per cent of humanity to die before finishing a single century will increasingly be seen as depraved.

Of course, this is going to change society. It will whipsaw everyone's imaginations, jerk their heads out of the current everyday, make them realize how little they have settled for. It will give anyone making the effort a chance to try careers, life choices, and cultural experimentation they never would have dreamed of before -- because now they will have the time. They will take better care of themselves, because they don't want to spend several centuries in a crapped-out body and brain. They will get or continue their education, whether in schools or out, because now there's a future to prepare for. They will care about global warming in a couple of centuries, not because it will affect their children's world, but because they will be there!

Worries about pensions and retirement will be obsolete; the entire point of SENS-oriented research is to make aging itself obsolete. In other words, your mind can grow as you make it -- your body is what will stay at (or revert to) about 30 years of age. In other words, retirement won't be something you do because you can't physically work anymore -- it will be (probably a temporary) choice, because you've saved up enough to take the time off.

If you haven't noticed, population figures in the West haven't been screaming off the charts, in fact only immigration has kept population growing in the West, Russia and Pacific Rim. Even much of Latin America has seen birth rates dropping off to near zero growth, and the rest -- Africa, Middle East, and India, while still above replacement level, have been dropping. Only continued resistance from conservative Muslims and Christians, and abject poverty, have kept these rates from falling faster.

Longer lifespans mean it will make sense to continue becoming economically productive, and yes that is a serious issue underneath every single social program and value any of us care about. Making the world a better place takes productivity... the question is productivity for the sake of democracy and empowerment of those currently at the margins, or imperialism and further empowerment of those already at the top. The two types of productivity and economic growth do NOT look the same in real life. All GDPs are NOT equal or identical, so please do not confuse them. The fascists now in power love it when anyone falls for that scam.
(cont'd)

[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]


Comments are closed-

I'd probably like to live for 1000 years
Posted by: rfrancis@godisdead.com on Oct 1, 2007 8:54 PM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
The idea that I might actually be able to travel the stars at faster than light speeds would be amazing.

I don't see that happening in my lifetime even if I live to be 100, but 1000, it seems like it would be much more plausible.

If I was a decrepit old fossil then no I probably wouldn't want to but that is easy to say when I am only 27 and not facing the prospect of rotting in the ground, turning to dust, and ceasing to exist.

[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]


Comments are closed-

An "old" saying.
Posted by: Landbaron on Oct 2, 2007 12:12 PM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
"If I knew I was gonna live this long, I would've taken better care of myself."

[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]

Alternet Comments:

Comments are closed-

I find this longevity science interesting and hope to hear more
Posted by: jparsons on Sep 28, 2007 1:09 AM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
In the meantime, I will continue with my no-cholesterol,
high-fiber, high-nutrient vegan diet.

The people who use this diet look great as they age, not like
most of their detractors.

[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]

» Geez, I just don't know... Posted by: jparsons

Comments are closed-

It's important that this issue start to be discussed publicly
Posted by: Logic's Edge on Sep 28, 2007 1:38 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Any significant extention to the human lifespan will have a major impact on society.

It's important that the years gained are quality years. Not "extended decrepitude". Otherwise, it might prove to be more of a curse than a blessing.

Some extra years could certainly help women "have it all"; to have and raise children, and yet still have a full career.

Being vigorous to one hundred could let one sample more of life and change careers with regret, too.

If we start to live too long, though, the structure of society will change. There will be fewer youth and young adults, who often provide much of the drive and energy. Society might lose vitality.

Plenty to think about.

[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]


Comments are closed-

We are not meant to live forever!
Posted by: Lizmv on Sep 28, 2007 2:55 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Death is a part of life. Humans are part of the natural cycle of birth - life - death. This is how the Earth renews itself. Just as the cells withing our bodies die off and are renewed, we humans need to accept that we cannot and should not live forever.

[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]

» RE: We are not meant to live forever! Posted by: parmenicleitus

Comments are closed-

How will the society survive I wonder?
Posted by: Smartcookie on Sep 28, 2007 3:22 AM   
Current rating: 4    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
I can see longevity as the next thing to spark civil discontent, unrest and perhaps even war.

Think about all those poor people who will be sentenced to death because of scarcity and lack of affordability, I don't think market relations will stand up under the strain, why should someone obey the rules if they have a shorter lifespan then a rich person? That is a severe imbalance of power.

[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]

» This is already the case. Posted by: Coleman

Comments are closed-

Interesting Read
Posted by: dreamk1 on Sep 28, 2007 3:41 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Check out Bruce Sterling's Holy Fire. It may be fiction, but he brings up some interesting ideas about humanity's desire to extend life. Personally, I'm going to try an extend my lifespan for as long as I can.

[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]


Comments are closed-

like the burning of the library at alexandria
Posted by: KaptainSpiffy on Sep 28, 2007 3:43 AM   
Current rating: 2    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
the only thing we really miss is the collected knowledge/perspective of life that is lost when someone dies.
that, and being able to ride it out on grandmas social security until she passed.

however, for most of us, who really wants the other guy to outlive you? sure, we'd all like to have the last thing on EVERYONE in high school who treated you like you were some sort of freak. and now they're ALL DEAD. i really hated you all, i'd say, shaking my fist at the last of them as sharon dwiggins is lowered into the cold earth on a great spring morning!

if you enjoy life, enjoy the people around you (or enjoy being alone, in the dark, just waiting) the IDEA of living longer seems the way to go.

*buys ticket*

*machine jams*

but, there are those who, in pain in body or mind, who would choose otherwise. i value the dignity of that choice. especially in others.

bush is leading us along a path similar to HITLER's germany! (*Fact:every 'comments' portion of an article in alternet must eventually have this reference from a reader or the comments are closed and it is removed from the archives).

the thought, of living longer, living forever, or, as we really are set up to do: ignore the fact we are born dying, opens a door for thinking of great things, making great plans, writing plays, swimming, jogging and bicycling (at least that's what this feminine product package says on the side). most of us are just getting to understand life. and then we die. that's what's most sad. that's what we really would like to change.

life is amazing. but then again, there's always hitler.


*is a complete fabrication (but feel that material! geddit? fabrication? Material? Fabric-ation?

*punts*

[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]


Comments are closed-

Freddie Mercury said it best...
Posted by: whathaway on Sep 28, 2007 4:44 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
"..who wants to live forever..."

[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]


Comments are closed-

It depends ...
Posted by: kelt65 on Sep 28, 2007 4:59 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
1000? I can't say. If I could be 25 for 100 years? hell yes. If I were to be 75 for 100 years? Fuck no!

Obviously this would have some serious ramifications.

[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]


Comments are closed-

It's also a question of living economically productive lives
Posted by: akai ringo on Sep 28, 2007 5:06 AM   
Current rating: 4    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
As one comment has already pointed out, any significant addition to the present life span should be in "quality years", not in "extended decrepitude", but I suggest that it is also important that additional years should be economically productive years. I don't know what the position is in the U.S., but here in Japan, where I live, the entire socio-economic infrastructure is still built largely round the concept of retirement at 60 or 65, and sometimes even at 55. Politicians and judges, as the people who make and administer the laws and the socio-legal infrastructure, can go on working for decades after this, but ordinary working people are bound by regulations. And this is in a country which is currently looking at what is likely to be a very long-term decline in its population. Last year, I was offered a part-time teaching position to supplement the one I hold. I had all the qualifications and experience required, and the terms and conditions suited me perfectly, but the next day I was asked my age. On discovering that I was 66, my friend had to apologize and withdraw the offer because I was "too old". On a broader scale, I don't know of any government, much less the Japanese government, that has even begun to think seriously about the changes to tax systems, pensions, working practices, etc, etc, that would be required to enable society to cope with an extension of even a few decades, much less a few hundred years.

[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]

» my guess is... Posted by: Coleman

Comments are closed-

I wonder
Posted by: JoshuaLudd on Sep 28, 2007 5:10 AM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
.. I wonder... its taken making the world a thoroughly shitty place with a befouled environment on the verge of collapse and the creation of a violent and sick society where people are wholly benumbed, disconnected both from nature and from each other, and where so many sit in offices or factories most of the day for most of our lives just to get to an average lifespan closing in on 80. What kind of world would we have to live with to get anywhere near 1000?

Of course some people want to live as long as possible, no matter how unrealistic.... they have no time to actually live once they've taken care of their job responsibilities.

[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]


Comments are closed-

same ole, same ole
Posted by: danny6126 on Sep 28, 2007 5:13 AM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Clearly, technology to extend "life" will not be kindly extended to those living in poverty in the US and around the world. As it stands, food, technology, kindness, military and humanitarian aid are not extended to such people now. It has difficult enough to get HIV/AIDS medicines to Africa on the cheap as it stands. Can anyone seriously think that there will be a sudden burst of generosity by those in the techno-biological complex to keep poor, dark-skinned people alive longer?

The vocabulary of the discussion is all-telling: cost-benefit analysis, GDP; consumption. What we'll have is situations where people like GWB, Cheney and cronies will be living 20 and 30 years longer than they might have, consequently giving them the opportunity extend their privilege, influence and power over additional decades. Instead of thinking about the next 4 or 8 years in office, then can plan for 30 or 40 years ahead in the actions they take.

I see we get more of the same in selective longevity which ultimately exacerbates the pain of living longer.

[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]

» pfft! i suggest term limits Posted by: KaptainSpiffy

Comments are closed-

Sure, let's keep people around a lot longer...
Posted by: Trazom on Sep 28, 2007 5:25 AM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
In a world that is becoming increasingly hostile to live in due to global warming, a large belligerent, fascist military nation-state (the US) bent on collecting ever more power, and God knows what other disasters awaiting us thanks to our mass consumption lifestyle.

This article doesn't make any sense because it fails to consider what life will be like for anyone outside of themselves.

Why don't we clean up the mess around us first before we decide to expose ourselves to more of it?

[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]


Comments are closed-

Speaking From Beyond the Grave.
Posted by: grumble-bum on Sep 28, 2007 5:45 AM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
This is, of course, a fascinating subject. It could be argued that one of the major things that distinguishes us from other animals is our knowledge of death & our deep desire to avoid or postpone it.

A few years ago, I was given a "new lease on life". More than a decade of severe drug & alcohol abuse had in many ways reduced my Thirty-odd year old body to that of someone much older. I was facing general organ failure & nerve damage. My physical mobility & mental faculties were both heavily compromised. My thinking had narrowed into a constricting tunnel, & I felt weary & used up. I was preparing myself for death.

In a sense, chronologically, I was about to die at roughly the age that most Humans throughout history have expected to. On a certain level, I was resigned to this. I made a choice to keep living, however, & (although mostly very happy & grateful for that choice) I now often feel like some ancient person on their death-bed who has been given a new body & a doubled lifespan.

Sometimes this is very strange. Not unlike stepping into someone else's life in an alternate universe. I would imagine that prolonging life expectancy across the board might have similar mental effects for the first batch of recipients, although perhaps not so dramatically.

I would hazard a guess that the majority of people really pushing for longevity enhancements are probably currently in their late Fifties. They are old enough to be looking down over the hill, & they are watching their parents die off (thanks in part to existing "improvements" in longevity, many of them in extended sessions of painful & humiliating stop-gap treatments & lingering illnesses). They are likely also, as a previous poster noted, to be people who will be able to afford the miracle treatments & daily therapies required to tack on those extra seven-odd years. Most of us won't, & I doubt the government/industry will be handing out the meds for free.

So, on the one hand, we'll surely see an increase in length (if not actual quality) of life, & all the benefits that that can bring. But we'll probably also see an increased divide along class lines, an artificially extended retirement age (ugh), & endless articles about how great this all is by those who get to enjoy it. & fifty-year-old adolescents!

To me, a more simple answer might be to expend our energies to make life better for people in the lifespan we have, while learning ways to grapple with inevitable death in a more constructive fashion. But then, what do I know- I've got my whole (second) life ahead of me!

[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]


Comments are closed-

"Death is a disease...and I will find the cure!"
Posted by: OneAcre2012 on Sep 28, 2007 5:49 AM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Why when I look into this version of the future do I see a handful of ridiculously wealthy 1000-year-olds sipping tea on the stacked swaths of carcasses of the less fortunate, who still have "miserably short" lives? What we're looking at is almost a separate species of long-living humanoids divergent entirely based on economy. And this doesn't get into the ramifications for our beautiful planet. Poor thing, she'll just hurl more tsunamis at them.

[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]

» Quote From "Superman: Red Son?" Posted by: pdxstudent

Comments are closed-

AN IRRATIONAL FEAR OF DEATH IS DRIVING THIS BIZARRE MOVEMENT
Posted by: drricklippin on Sep 28, 2007 5:55 AM   
Current rating: 4    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Ron Bailey- I'll buy and read your book

But it is death itself that gives life its very meaning!

The SINGLE most important way our young nation can finally mature is through open dialogue on and coming to grips with the death and dying issue. I'm absolutely convinced of this.

The technology hype about longevity extension for exceeds the existing science.

I call myself a "quality of life doctor" who fully recognizes that, paradoxicallly perhaps, the only path to the fully engaged life is enlightened death awareness- not death avoidance obsession.

I feel sorry for those who fear death. Life is great but fear of death paralyzes us from enjoying our years on this glorious beautiful planet and from enjoying our relationships with others.

Be Well,

Dr. Rick Lippin
http://medicalcrises.blogspot.com

[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]

» Good points! Posted by: Rune
» RE: Good points! Rune is Wise! Posted by: drricklippin

Comments are closed-

Still free to die
Posted by: Logic's Edge on Sep 28, 2007 6:03 AM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
For all the people who seem to be afraid of a longer lifespan, I can't imagine you'd be forced to accept the necessary "treatment", whatever that might be.

Nor does enhanced longevity mean the same thing as immortality. People would still die given long enough.

[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]


Comments are closed-

the other elephant in the room
Posted by: mwildfire on Sep 28, 2007 6:45 AM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Several posters have pointed out one of the obvious problems with this fantasy--which is that life extension will go only to the rich and well-connected. The author likes the idea of federal money going into research--which means that, as always, the middle-calss will be forced to pay the tab for the privileges of the rich.
But there are two other problems. I'm surprised nobody has mentioned the most obvious--which is that on an overpopulated planet, the only way to make room for the tardy exit of one generation is by drastically cutting into the numbers of the newest generation. Perhaps we'd better also allocate federal monies for research into how we can forcibly sterilize the poor so there will be room for the all-powerful, selfish rich. From the point of view of society, is it better to slow the turning of the generations? The author posits that older workers are better because of experience, but the reality is that brain function, as well as body function, slows with age. Young people add freshness and vitality to society. Some old people offer wisdom--but not many. Wisdom is only acquired by those who remain open to change. Most people allow themselves to sink deeper and deeper into ruts as they age, and no longer acquire any useful knowledge.
And this gets into my final problem with this proposal. It's not only a metter of a class divide between those with access to life-extension technology and those without--there will also be a gap on the individual level. What will be the difference between those who choose the treatments and those who don't? Basically, those who grasp at extended life, knowing others pay some of the cost, are those who selfishly value themselves above others, those with inflated egos, those who can't accept death, and those who are able to kick someone else out of the way to stay on top of the heap. In other words, the least wise among us. The very last thing society needs is to sacrifice much of the newest generation in favor of retaining the greediest, most powerful, most hubristic, rich white bastards!

[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]

» RE: the other elephant in the room Posted by: Logic's Edge
» RE: the other elephant in the room Posted by: Logic's Edge
» RE: the other elephant in the room Posted by: Logic's Edge
» RE: the other elephant in the room Posted by: quitecontrary
» what about a generation gap? Posted by: sweet_byrd
» RE: what about a generation gap? Posted by: Logic's Edge

Comments are closed-

MAY YOU LIVE IN INTERESTING TIMES
Posted by: VZEQICVA on Sep 28, 2007 8:01 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
We definitely do. But there have been exceedingly dull periods of history. Usually someone starts a war to liven things up. Then everyone gets to work toward peace. We don't get to pick our time slot. But it seems that no matter when and how long people live, they all want to make "changes". We all want everyone to know that we were here. It is an interesting topic but should presented as a little less self indulgent. Thanks, ANNA

[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]


Comments are closed-

Health Cops on Steroids!
Posted by: Gravitas on Sep 28, 2007 8:02 AM   
Current rating: 4    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
These people sound like the health and fitness cops taken to a new extreme! Scary! My number one objection to them is they are evangelistic and want to impose their value system on others. To some of us, life is a spiritual school. Once we learn the lessons we need to, we move on. Deliberately doing everything one cans to extend life makes as much sense as trying to flunk 12th grade so one never has to graduate. Death is a natural part of life, and to become obsessed with extending every last second is to be in extreme and ultimate denial! If that is the way they want to live their lives fine. But don't push it on others, and don't make it public policy with some half baked stats more based on optimism than facts!

Furthermore, I have never met a person obsessed with longevity who seemed happy. They deny themselves every bit of pleasure in the here and now to get those last seconds when they are 80! But if they weren't miserable, they would not be so judgmental and need to police others. Well adjusted people respect boundaries!!!!!!!!!!!

[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]

» RE: Health Cops on Steroids! Posted by: VZEQICVA

Comments are closed-

Mars Trilogy
Posted by: pdxstudent on Sep 28, 2007 8:06 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Kim Stanley Robinson wrote a science-fiction trilogy called "Red Mars," "Green Mars," and "Blue Mars." It is about, as you'd imagine, the colonization of Mars and its terraformation. Hence the colorful titles.

Robinson is not just writing your everyday flash-gordon or something though. His books are deeply connected to prevailing political situations and certain philosophical issues. One that he addresses in this triology is longevity.

In this world, after successful initial colonization puts a foot-hold on Mars, a kind of gene therapy is developed on earth that essentially extends human life by 200-300 years. It is a vital not decrepit aging process too. There are class issues examined here as well as interpersonal and personal growth issues too. The whole triology, along with his other books, is a great read.

[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]


Comments are closed-

Others Have Said it Better Than Me
Posted by: Bab5nutz on Sep 28, 2007 9:01 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
If life could be greatly extended, then you would see the rise of an elite, who would live much longer than the people who support them.
I can see other things happening, as well.
First, the elite would inevitably become bored, and look for ways to fill their days - hell - it already happens. And they were will come up with extreme forms of entertainments to keep themselves occupied.
Second, there would be fewer new ideas, fewer innovations. With a long-lived elite in charge, there would be less room for new people with new ideas. Society might even begin to stagnate under such condition,
And I could actually see there being war, people fighting over who gets the longevity pills and who doesn't.
On the other hand, it could be that I have seen way too many science fiction shows..

[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]


Comments are closed-

There will be another option...
Posted by: hurricane hugo on Sep 28, 2007 9:18 AM   
Current rating: 1    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
uploading ourselves into machines. Freeing oneself from biology would seem to be a more efficient way to "live" forever, if that's the goal. Consider that you could "move" into a new model, have copies of you made, etc.

plur

[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]


Comments are closed-

you may not look so hot though
Posted by: punabear on Sep 28, 2007 10:02 AM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
My high school science teacher, years ago, informed the class that our noses and feet continue to grow throughout our entire lives. Who wants to be 300 years old with a nose hanging down to their lips and clown feet?

[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]


Comments are closed-

Don't forget to look at the "Big Picture"
Posted by: chugach3Dguy on Sep 28, 2007 10:15 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
If this was ever possible and started off catering to the super-rich and society's upper crust, I could imagine many
recipients of this treatment becoming depressed, bitter, and suicidal. Just imagine- everything as you know it would change. People already have enough trouble dealing with change in the relatively small amount of time we spend living. Take a look at how the neighborhood you grew up in has changed over the last 10 or 25 years. If its anything like from what I remember, the entire area looks drastically different. Forests were clear cut, wetlands were filled, farms were sectioned off and all of it converted to strip malls and condo complexes.

Companies and business changes quickly over time as well, so that would undoubtedly become a difficult hurdle to cross.
And what about friends and family that couldn't afford or didn't want this "age treatment"? Watching entire generations live and die while one lingers on may sound fascinating to some people, but I don't think we humans have the mental stamina and the appropriate faculties to cope. It's already hard enough on many people to lose loved ones and have their heart broken.

How would marriage work? Would marriage still be able to exist? Till death do you part? That's a LONG time! I can only imagine the enormous and complicated families that would arise from the 5 or 6 marriages and divorces- PER CENTURY. I'm sure some wacky fundie zealots of some kind will figure out a way to have "Super Marriages" or something, but in the meantime, I'll take it like it is.

Besides, I think Carl from Aqua Teen Hunger Force said it best when he was asked if he wanted to be immortal: "Nahh, I don't wanna live forever. Sometimes... I kinda want to die."

[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]


Comments are closed-

Population
Posted by: bookie on Sep 28, 2007 10:20 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Its natural to want to live longer. I'd like to live longer if my quality of life was good. But here's the thing,
THERE'S TOO MANY PEOPLE NOW.
We as a species need to learn to stop overbreeding. The planet doesn't need more people living longer until we are able to control the numbers we have now.

[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]

» RE: Population Posted by: Logic's Edge

Comments are closed-

Living 1000 years?
Posted by: CUnknown on Sep 28, 2007 10:32 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Most of the discussion so far has been interesting, but I think it and this article are a little off-base. There is no reason to believe that humans will ever be able to live to 1000 years of age, this is pure speculative fantasy. Science fiction, really. I love science fiction, but I assume that this article is supposed to be talking about the real world.

At the same time, I'm sure that we will continue to see gains in life-span over the next century or so.. I imagine that with the right diet, exercise, and the best futuristic health care we can muster, humans might one day see life expectancies of around 90 years or so... maybe in the truely far-flung future they might get to 100 or over for some wealthy segment of the population.

Longeivity science is important, and a growing field, but to think that humans might one day routinely live to 200 years of age or older is just foolish. Genetics, diet, exercise, and longeivity science are all factors towards determining life-span, but certainly the most important of those will always be diet and exercise. We have the potential for long and healthy lives right at this moment, is what I'm saying, and it will never get much better than this.

[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]


Comments are closed-

kind of poignant
Posted by: MMiddle on Sep 28, 2007 10:42 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Kind of poignant, all this earnest energy going into radical life extension; comparable to trying to colonize Mars. Read "The Coming Plague" or "American Plague" or their ilk: quite likely that Nature will manage to trump our best-laid plans for beating her. The "learn to explore and value Death as a part of Life" point of view is the healthiest. For that challenge, reading up on Buddhism is a good start.

[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]

» RE: kind of poignant Posted by: Basenjis
» RE: kind of poignant Posted by: cpotter

Comments are closed-

LOST HORIZON...
Posted by: morticia on Sep 28, 2007 12:04 PM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
....by James Hilton shows us moderately extended lives--200 years or so. In Anne Rice's INTERVIEW WITH THE VAMPIRE, we see how it is to live for 400 years or more. A terrible ennui, disgust and psychological decay sets in; at the same time, the vampire is addicted, unable to let go and just die, and is reduced to drinking the blood of rats. Great stuff. A fine metaphor for Dick Cheney, a real-life vampire who should have been dead long ago, but whose black heart is kept pumping by multiple space-age pacemakers...

There's no need for most of us to fret over the philosophical quandary presented by extended lifespans. It will be available only to the very rich, like the science and resources that keep Cheney alive. For the rest of us, it will be entirely moot. We'll live and die as we always have.

[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]


Comments are closed-

More life only if accompanied by more wisdom
Posted by: veive on Sep 28, 2007 12:23 PM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Unfortunately, during the past 100 years our lifespans have been increased with no comensurate increase in our wisdom. We, the people, are even dumber now when it comes to knowing how to live truly joyful existences. Additional years have not brought additional happiness and extending those years to 1000 may well make things much worse.

Note: Incessant distraction seeking does not equal happiness.

[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]


Comments are closed-

Anybody paying attention to Naomi Klein's thesis?
Posted by: Sojourner on Sep 28, 2007 2:00 PM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
She says that capitalism feeds on catastrophes and crises of any kind. The article's reported discussion sounds like an insurance salesman's pitch. "Here, you need to buy what I am selling, because anyone in their right mind has to want what I'm selling."

It's just another sales pitch, like sending a colony off to Mars. Yeah, that's where we want to set our priorities--like we need to go looking for work to do so that we can burn up our planet faster. The faster we burn it up, the more we need to go to Mars. Funny how that works out.

We could increase the average life expectancy beyond what the discussion even considers by putting an end to wars. Since we cannot seem to figure out how to do that, lets see if we can inject people with something that will add a day or two.

But the clincher is that the value of long life is best represented in the accumulated wisdom of our culture. Who today cares about that? It's gotta have buttons and led lamps and be novel. Spend time in study, learning the wisdom of our ancestors? Like it or not cool cats, we have already all the wisdom it requires to live well. If only we could get people to appreciate it and give it a try? "Do unto others." "You are forgiven as you forgive others." "Don't take advantage, even when it's easy to do." Etc.

"Ah, what fools these mortals be."

[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]


Comments are closed-

But what about the next life?
Posted by: Nedtheredhead on Sep 28, 2007 4:28 PM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Of the many opinions posted here in less than 12 hours, which shows just how important this subject is, none that I could find looked at personal belief.
If you are a Christian, or live in a Christian society, an atheist, agnostic, Muslim, and similar other beliefs, you believe we only have one life. We are born, we live, we die, end of story.
However Buddhists, Hindus, alternative spiritual believers and religions I can't recall instantly, believe that we are born into many lives. We are born into one life, we live that life, we pass over from that life into a terminal where we rest before returning to another human body to do it all over again. Reincarnation. The belief of reincarnation is that if we mess up one life, we get a chance to improve our soul by being given a new, different life full of new experiences. In other words we are run through a series of new tests in every new life we are given.
To extend any particular life, from a reincarnationists point of view, is to allow a person to 'burn off karma' in the one life, but that also means a person could live a dreadful life in one go, where as if it had been spread over many lives, as nature intended, it wouldn't have been so painful.
We live in a society that encourages personal choice, however that personal choice is wide open to strong suggestive processes intended to sell goods and services.
Take for example the cigarette industry and cigarette smokers. It is common knowledge that smokers age far quicker than non smokers, in particular the ageing process of the skin is sped up. Smokers, it is said, have choice. But we also know that smoking is addictive and many just can't give up smoking no matter how much they try. So the cosmetic industry develops products that mask that skin ageing, and again the user is bombarded with the choices on how to look younger.
We are now looking at extending life, as this article mentions, not to improve the quality of life, though that is the sales pitch, but to, again, put another product on the market to sell under the heading of choice.
For those that believe we only live one life, it sounds like a great option I suppose, but frankly I will be happy when my 70 or so years are up. And if I only got one bite of the cherry, then at least I won't have put another 20 or more years of suffering on myself. And if reincarnation is an option, that I'll come back as a new person, and without the memory of all the stupid things I've done in this life.

[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]

» Why I am a mortalist. Posted by: Sojourner

Comments are closed-

That's Easy.
Posted by: Joe on Sep 28, 2007 4:43 PM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
No. I rather live a short life of happiness than a long life of torture. The one reason I never understood people with their life is beautiful, life is wonderful statements is because quality of life seems to never enter the equation. I'm waiting for the baby boomers to die off. The longer they live, the longer they vote, the longer they control my life with philosophies I disagree with. In a sense the prolonging of life slows down evolution.

[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]


Comments are closed-

1K? Why not immortality?
Posted by: Glennk1949 on Sep 28, 2007 5:55 PM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Immortality or is that immorality? Only the rich would get the nod and then they'd hunt the lesser lived species wouldn't they? The idea of extending lifespans within REASON slowly makes some sense, however a sudden jump by huge amounts will create havoc and maybe war. Lets start thinking about saving the planet first before extending Billy Gates et. al. God status by handing him and his class immortality.

[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]


Comments are closed-

Sorry, in 120 Years You Are All Dead
Posted by: sofla100 on Sep 28, 2007 6:24 PM   
Current rating: 4    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Yea, we have all heard it before. The wonders of science and nutrition, etc., and we are going to live longer and longer so death will just recede into the distant horizon.

Make Believe. The USA lifespan has now risen to the spectacular age of 78. In the past 30 years, since the eradication of the major childhood diseases due to innoculations (smallpox, diptherea, etc.), the lifespan in the USA has not risen appreciably. No more then 10% And, here, somebody is talking about the lifespan being extended 1000+%

Hate to bust your bubble bud. In 120 years (and most likely 100 years), everyone reading this is going to be dead. No amount of tofu, granola, vitamin E, is going to save you. Nothing will. However, if you prefer this make believe that is up to you. Otherwise, live each and every day to it's fullest because life turns on a dime. And, it ain't changing very soon at all.

[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]


Comments are closed-

Worth it?
Posted by: talkville on Sep 29, 2007 3:41 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
In this society, it's a critical question to be answered with another: worth it for whom? The "science of longevity" or many of the "sciences" of today ought not to be assumed to be concerned with each of US; as with all else, the deeper motive is to extend and improve the living of "those who are worth 'saving' "

Living and dying are con-current processes. It always depends on one's conditions of existence (outside of the individual's will or control) as to whether the answer to the article's question will be positive or negative. I suspect in our society the answer to the question would be quite different beginning in the low sectors of the hierarchy and up towards the highest. Kinda the way abstracts like "outlook", "attitude", "enthusiasm" and others would go. But as long as there's "worth" to be extracted, you bet they'll keep all of us wishing to live past the 100's. Keep your insurance paid up, though, just in case.

[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]


Comments are closed-

On the other hand, folks ...
Posted by: BlueStateBitch on Sep 29, 2007 11:57 AM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Isn't it possible that if humans could live for centuries, they'd be more farsighted and begin to enact policies that preserve the planet and promote peace?

After all, if we knew we'd still be around in 100 years, we'd be less likely to pollute our environment or build nuclear weapons. Or maybe I'm just an optimist.

[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]

» RE: mck3 Posted by: mjglow

Comments are closed-

the human body was not designed to grow old and die
Posted by: unity1 on Sep 29, 2007 6:34 PM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
but the consciousness to fully comprehend this is simply not here yet.

I personally would not like to live in this world the way that its set up in all its toxic exploitive glory with endless war on the agenda - however, because we think we know it all, we fail to realise just how our stress, and handling our reactions, and our dysfunctional beleif systems all play a part in aging our bodies so that our bodies, like our eco system slowly over time, of repeated daily abuse, can no longer cope and it begins to fail , i.e get sick and eventually dies....

scientists, although seemingly intelligent are barely conscious of what a human being actually is nor its potential, thus the notion of living forever in the same mind set, the same belief system is for me, more like living forever in a nightmare than some sort of utopia

until humanity can grasp some simple basics, like love one another, love the earth and live in harmony with everyone and everything, then living longer is simply and ego driven substitute for dying

there is a fountain of youth, but its not external, its within us, and there are maps that can get you there, its a human potential to live not die - yet science will never fully grasp it even though its right in front of their eyes, simply woven within a web of esoteric knowledge that everyone has deemed nonsense because it never fitted in with the story of who we think we are

[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]


Comments are closed-

No question
Posted by: sfo on Sep 29, 2007 9:20 PM   
Current rating: 4    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
I'd work 30 years just to afford the ability to live another 300.

[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]


Comments are closed-

Aging is just one more barrier to knock down
Posted by: disgustedandamused on Oct 1, 2007 8:35 PM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
For those so sure we are meant to die, and soon...
I can find you boatloads of folks sure in their faith that the world is about to end, and that it should.
I can find mortality stats showing that most people in the past never made it past the age of five, and that was considered the way it would always would be.
I have heard people seriously say there is no need to worry about welfare, education and the like... because "the Bible says you'll always have the poor with you"...

There is always an excuse to fail, to give up, to not even try. In one more century, the combination of bio-tech and neural-tech, along with several other forms of technology barely starting now, will allow us to see our early 21st century lives as desperately poor -- lived in "biological poverty".

Go to Africa, and tell a mom watching her kid die of a simple (to us) disease that "it's natural." Once the SENS project (mentioned in the article) has a chance to make progress, statements about how "natural" it is for 99 per cent of humanity to die before finishing a single century will increasingly be seen as depraved.

Of course, this is going to change society. It will whipsaw everyone's imaginations, jerk their heads out of the current everyday, make them realize how little they have settled for. It will give anyone making the effort a chance to try careers, life choices, and cultural experimentation they never would have dreamed of before -- because now they will have the time. They will take better care of themselves, because they don't want to spend several centuries in a crapped-out body and brain. They will get or continue their education, whether in schools or out, because now there's a future to prepare for. They will care about global warming in a couple of centuries, not because it will affect their children's world, but because they will be there!

Worries about pensions and retirement will be obsolete; the entire point of SENS-oriented research is to make aging itself obsolete. In other words, your mind can grow as you make it -- your body is what will stay at (or revert to) about 30 years of age. In other words, retirement won't be something you do because you can't physically work anymore -- it will be (probably a temporary) choice, because you've saved up enough to take the time off.

If you haven't noticed, population figures in the West haven't been screaming off the charts, in fact only immigration has kept population growing in the West, Russia and Pacific Rim. Even much of Latin America has seen birth rates dropping off to near zero growth, and the rest -- Africa, Middle East, and India, while still above replacement level, have been dropping. Only continued resistance from conservative Muslims and Christians, and abject poverty, have kept these rates from falling faster.

Longer lifespans mean it will make sense to continue becoming economically productive, and yes that is a serious issue underneath every single social program and value any of us care about. Making the world a better place takes productivity... the question is productivity for the sake of democracy and empowerment of those currently at the margins, or imperialism and further empowerment of those already at the top. The two types of productivity and economic growth do NOT look the same in real life. All GDPs are NOT equal or identical, so please do not confuse them. The fascists now in power love it when anyone falls for that scam.
(cont'd)

[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]


Comments are closed-

I'd probably like to live for 1000 years
Posted by: rfrancis@godisdead.com on Oct 1, 2007 8:54 PM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
The idea that I might actually be able to travel the stars at faster than light speeds would be amazing.

I don't see that happening in my lifetime even if I live to be 100, but 1000, it seems like it would be much more plausible.

If I was a decrepit old fossil then no I probably wouldn't want to but that is easy to say when I am only 27 and not facing the prospect of rotting in the ground, turning to dust, and ceasing to exist.

[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]


Comments are closed-

An "old" saying.
Posted by: Landbaron on Oct 2, 2007 12:12 PM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
"If I knew I was gonna live this long, I would've taken better care of myself."

[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]

 
Advertisement
From The Blog
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
Most Read
Most Emailed
Most Discussed
On REDDIT
On DIGG
 
loading ...
POWERED BY DIGG'S USERS