COMMENTS: 322
The Stone Age Diet: Why I Eat Like a Caveman
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What stopped this was an unforgiving changing-room mirror. As I stood there without my T-shirt, I was confronted with the harsh reality that I had a spare tyre. There it was; like it or not, I was facing the onset of middle-age spread.
I decided to do something about it. First, I cranked up a serious exercise regime. I jogged every other day and did weights on the days in between, taking Sundays off. Diet-wise, I ate the universally recommended high-carbohydrate, low-fat foods: lots of rice, lentils, pasta, oats, fish, chicken and fruit and veg, but little red meat.
It didn't work. Yes, I felt fitter and was more muscular -- but my waistline wasn't going down.
As I was about to give up in despair, I stumbled across the website of Art De Vany www.arthurdevany.com, an economics professor from California. I was dumbfounded. The guy was in his sixties and he looked spectacular. His muscles rippled, but not in the muscle-bound bodybuilder way. What's more, his stomach was flat and he had a genuine six-pack. He put people of 30 and younger to shame.
What was De Vany's secret? For nearly two decades, he'd been eating and exercising as humans did in Paleolithic times -- the early Stone Age. He'd come across research suggesting that we should be eating like our hunter-gatherer forebears -- lean meat, fish, vegetables, nuts, but no grains, beans or dairy. It had made sense, so he took it up.
As De Vany points out, the fossil record reveals that our cave ancestors were not only slim, lean, fit and healthy, but that they did not generally suffer from many of the diseases that plague us today, such as cancer, allergies and heart disease. What's more, as long as they weren't gored by a wild beast or struck down by infection, they lived as long as we do today. They stayed agile and vigorous until they dropped (no wheelchairs and care homes for them).
I decided to give the idea a month's trial. That way I could assess initial results and check that the diet wasn't hazardous to long-term health. My first port of call was Archers, a good-quality butchers near my home in Norwich, to pick up five pounds of mince to make up bolognese and chilli sauces (without pasta, beans or rice), along with six pork chops, big joints of beef, kidneys and a slice or two of liver. "Dinner-party?" Jamie behind the counter asked. "No," I said, "it's all for me."
Next, I hit the supermarket to pick up 20 cans of tuna in spring water, five cans of corned beef (not ideal due to the salt, but good for emergencies) and olive oil. Other than that, the shelves were off limits; they were lined with cereals, dairy, baked goods or sugary foods -- all of which would have been alien to our hunter-gatherer ancestors. In a health-food store, I picked up a selection of nuts -- brazils, pecans, hazels, almonds and walnuts -- and a tub or two of raisins; all staple snack foods for the Stone Age eater.
For me, giving up things like toast, breakfast cereals, dairy products, potatoes, pasta and sugary desserts was easy. After a few weeks, I lost the taste for anything sweet. The only thing I did miss, and still do sometimes, is cheese.
I still had nagging doubts about taking on such an extreme diet. However, the more I looked into it, the more I became convinced that eating Stone Age-style is not only good for you, but possibly the most natural diet for humans.
One of the leading researchers in the field of Paleolithic eating and fitness is Loren Cordain, a professor in the health and exercise department of Colorado State University. He makes no bones about it: "The human genetic makeup is identical to that of Stone Agers. Those people were optimally adapted to the types of foods they could gather or hunt, and there's no evidence to suggest that modern humans are any different," he says.
According to Cordain, our modern diet, with its emphasis on refined cereals, sugars, vegetable oils and dairy products, was introduced in the "wink of an eye," with serious ramifications for our health. "The changes that have occurred in the Western diet are far too rapid. Our genes have been stable, but our diet has not."
In his book The Paleo Diet (Wiley), Cordain argues that the rot set in with the Neolithic (agricultural) revolution some 10,000 years ago. As farming took over the world, bringing with it new foods such as bread and dairy products, so our health and fitness declined. We got fatter, and shorter. Come the Industrial Revolution, things got even worse. "Neolithic, industrial-era and modern-era foods... underlie virtually all the chronic diseases of civilisation: coronary heart disease, hypertension, type-2 diabetes, gout, obesity, acne and breast, colon and prostate cancer," Cordain says.
This seemed almost unbelievable. Was conventional "wisdom" about nutrition wrong? All I could go on was my own experience.
After two weeks of going Stone Age, I was already beginning to lose weight and my jeans felt looser. What's more, I felt so much better, full of energy and vigour. I found myself bounding up hills without getting out of breath. I was convinced, and forgot all about giving the diet a month's trial. I was in it for the long haul.
It was one of the best decisions I've ever made. Six months into the diet, I achieved my goal and could get into a pair of size 32 jeans without a squeeze. My spare tyre was flat! I could even wear tight-fitting T-shirts without feeling self-conscious. I'd given up jogging in favour of weightlifting workouts that mimicked the activities of ancient hunter-gatherers. This brought real dividends in terms of fitness and muscle definition.
Unsurprisingly, some dieticians are sceptical about eating like our ancient ancestors. They consider it a big, artery-choking mistake. "It's a dangerous diet that's going to kill a lot of people," says Dr Dean Ornish, whose book Eat More, Weigh Less (Collins) advocates a low-fat vegetarian diet. "I'd love to be able to tell people that steaks and pork rinds are healthy foods, but they're not. The evidence shows that those are the foods that cause people to get heart disease and cancer and to age prematurely."
It would have been easy to have been deterred by such comments. But evidence in favour of eating hunter-gatherer style is increasing. Recently, scientists at Lund University in Sweden found that eating like a caveman could prevent you developing diabetes. They compared two groups of glucose-intolerant heart patients. The first group followed a Paleolithic diet; the second ate a conventional low-fat, high-carbohydrate diet.
After 12 weeks, the study found that those on the caveman diet had normal blood glucose levels, while those on the low-fat, high-carbohydrate diet had suffered an increase in blood sugar. Dr Staffan Lindeberg, the study's leader, said: "If you want to prevent or treat diabetes type-2, it may be more efficient to avoid modern foods than to count calories or carbohydrates."
This is old news to Ray Audette, author of Neanderthin (Saint Martins Press). He's eaten like a caveman for more than 20 years, after being diagnosed with diabetes. He looked into ancient diets, and "realised that grains, beans, potatoes, milk and sugar would not be edible to me," he says. "After I stopped eating them, my blood sugar went normal within the week. I'd also been suffering from rheumatoid arthritis for about a dozen years before that. It went away and never came back."
This way of eating is not for everyone. I've always liked meat and eaten fruit and vegetables, so it was easy for me. Five years after going Stone Age, I still take a size 32 in jeans and continue to have more energy. So there's no going back; I'm staying in the Stone Age.
The stone age diet: what to eat
- Rule of thumb: If you can't gather it from a bush or tree, or spear it, it's probably best not to eat it.
- What you can eat: Lean meat and fish. Fresh fruit and vegetables. Eggs. Dried fruit (without added sugar or vegetable oil). Nuts and seeds.
- What you can't eat: Sugars, grains (no oats, wheat, barley or rye, etc), beans, peanuts (a bean not a nut) and starchy vegetables (such as potatoes). Dairy products.
Carnivore cuisine
Owsley Stanley, known as the Bear, has eaten an all-meat diet for nearly 50 years. When he was young, he read that Eskimos ate only meat and fish, yet were very healthy and fit. This convinced him that humans are meant to be purely carnivorous. "I have eaten as a total carnivore for 48 years," he says. "I am nearly 72 and I have much the same body as I did at 30."
Stanley came to notoriety in the 1960s as an LSD chemist, celebrated in songs by the Grateful Dead and Steely Dan. It was Stanley who created the Purple Haze acid made famous in the Jimi Hendrix song.
Stanley recently posted his seven rules for healthy eating on the internet. They are:
- Eat only food from animals
- No vegetables
- Limit liver intake
- Avoid milk (except for butter and cheese)
- Eat as much fat as you like
- Don't cook your food much
- Avoid salt
Stanley had a heart attack in recent years, but he blames it on the broccoli and other"poisonous" vegetables his mother used to feed him as a boy. (Stanley's website is at www.thebear.org)
For further information, see www.paleodiet.com; www.thepaleodiet.com; www.evfit.com.
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Comments are closed-
Posted by: sean000 on Aug 16, 2007 12:39 AM
Current rating: 3 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
It's great that you found a diet that worked for you, but seriously... do you really think it's different from any of the other fad diets out there? EVERY fad diet works for some people where nothing else would. That's why others jump on the band-wagon.
Losing weight isn't rocket science. Burn more calories than you consume. You will lose weight... eventually even the spare tire (though they like to hang around until the end sometimes). Good nutrition isn't as simple, but most doctors and nutritionists (as well as many healthy senior citizens) agree that the keys are variety and moderation... emphasizing fresh vegetables, fruits, whole grains, dairy, and lean meats or beans.
Your plan to exercise more like a caveman probably has more to it. I'm sure not all cavemen and cave women had the same lifestyles, but when we think of hunter/gatherers we think of people who spent a great deal of time on the move. They probably walked great distances and had moments of intense running... but most of the time they just probably walked and walked and walked unless they were attacking something or running away. Distance burns more weight than speed. Short and fast workouts burn more carbs, while more moderate (and longer) exercise burns more fat. If I remember my schooling correctly, protein and carbs convert to fuel for your muscles more quickly and easily than fat... which is why your body doesn't easily use fat for intensity.
Cavemen probably exercised throughout the day more, and exercise keeps your metabolism higher. If we spent more of our time walking, bicycling, and climbing stairs to get from place to place throughout the day; we'd probably burn more calories and have a higher metabolism than someone who sits at a desk or in a car all day and concentrates all their exercise into one hour in the gym.
Sorry...but this is one of the more ridiculous fad diets I've encountered. It's great you lost the weight, but give yourself more credit than the makeup of the diet.
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» there's more to it
Posted by: EasterBunny
» Burn more calories than you consume. You will lose weight
Posted by: cellorelio
» RE: Burn more calories than you consume. You will lose weight
Posted by: pzzp
» RE: Burn more calories than you consume. You will lose weight
Posted by: cellorelio
» RE: The reasons cavemen were so skinny...
Posted by: peleo_huntress
» A sidenote...
Posted by: peleo_huntress
» Hmm.. not the stats I have heard. less actually. But...
Posted by: JoshuaLudd
» RE: A sidenote...
Posted by: KeepsonTickn
» RE: The reasons cavemen were so skinny...
Posted by: JoshuaLudd
» RE: Uh, Joshua....
Posted by: oregoncharles
» RE: Uh, Joshua....
Posted by: JoshuaLudd
» They did store food....
Posted by: peleo_huntress
» RE: The reasons cavemen were so skinny...
Posted by: paleogal
» Absolutely! Government made diet...
Posted by: Paleo_Huntress
Comments are closed-
Posted by: KaptainSpiffy on Aug 16, 2007 2:37 AM
Current rating: 3 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
meat most likely was not the main source of calories to early man's diet.
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» RE: enjoy the hormones
Posted by: peleo_huntress
» RE: enjoy the hormones
Posted by: Scott Teresi
» RE: enjoy the hormones
Posted by: peleo_huntress
» RE: enjoy the hormones
Posted by: Scott Teresi
» RE: enjoy the hormones
Posted by: peleo_huntress
» Nasty, Brutish and Short
Posted by: Scott Teresi
» RE: Nasty, Brutish and Short
Posted by: Scott Teresi
» RE: enjoy the hormones
Posted by: oregoncharles
» RE: enjoy the hormones
Posted by: paleogal
» sucking out marrow is the phrase not "look! me teef is ground down by eatin' bones"
Posted by: KaptainSpiffy
» Modern day hunter-gatherers eat LOTS of meat and fat...
Posted by: peleo_huntress
Comments are closed-
Posted by: douglashoyt on Aug 16, 2007 3:40 AM
Current rating: 3 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
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» Has eating trash ever made you feel good for very long?
Posted by: JoshuaLudd
» RE: Has eating trash ever made you feel good for very long?
Posted by: YogiBear
Comments are closed-
Posted by: douglashoyt on Aug 16, 2007 3:49 AM
Current rating: 2 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
In the modern age, the benefits are: reduction of the human over population, and free food, and more time at home and not shopping.
Plus one can get all the variety of organ meats as well. For a change, one can eat vegan's and get the added nutrients of veggies.
The down side is that your prey may fight back, and the courts may send you to prison.
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» Didn't you know?
Posted by: ABetterFuture
» RE: Didn't you know?
Posted by: Mr. Heathen
Comments are closed-
Posted by: Klaus on Aug 16, 2007 3:51 AM
Current rating: 1 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]
» RE: Huh?
Posted by: Serafim Tkachuk
» RE: Huh?
Posted by: hagwind
» RE: Huh?
Posted by: Klaus
» RE: Huh?
Posted by: plantsareneat
» RE: Huh?
Posted by: mercianomad
» RE: Huh?
Posted by: hagwind
» RE: Huh?
Posted by: KeepsonTickn
» fat vegetarian
Posted by: shellac'd
» Fat vegetarians? Oh yes.
Posted by: peleo_huntress
» Hey... Most junk food is vegetarian.
Posted by: JoshuaLudd
» LOL
Posted by: hagwind
» Twinkies
Posted by: defrag
» Legendary producer Rick Rubin is a vegan
Posted by: acidicjazzhead
» Yes, I HAVE seen a few fat vegetarians...
Posted by: olderworker
» RE: Huh?
Posted by: kamcallen
» RE: Huh?
Posted by: kelt65
» Yes, and they were all cows.
Posted by: KeepsonTickn
» RE: Huh?
Posted by: cnetto
» RE: Huh?
Posted by: Klaus
» Guilty consciences?
Posted by: peleo_huntress
» RE: Guilty consciences?
Posted by: Klaus
» RE: Guilty consciences?
Posted by: peleo_huntress
» RE: Huh?
Posted by: oregonox
» Yes I have seen fat vegetarians...
Posted by: harpy
» Why do you think they feed livestock corn?
Posted by: harpy
» Yes, Virginia, there are fat vegetarians
Posted by: wagadog
» RE: Huh?
Posted by: opeluboy
Comments are closed-
Posted by: EmilyC on Aug 16, 2007 4:00 AM
Current rating: 3 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]
» RE: Learn from a Japanese, not a caveman.
Posted by:
» RE: Learn from a Japanese, not a caveman.
Posted by: peleo_huntress
» RE: Learn from the French, too.
Posted by: Sushi
» RE: Learn from the French, too- there ARE fat French people, too!
Posted by: olderworker
» RE: Learn from a Japanese, not a caveman.
Posted by: kiel
» Japanese have evolved into their diet. We haven't
Posted by: KeepsonTickn
» Natural selection? Hardly...
Posted by: peleo_huntress
» What studies?
Posted by: KeepsonTickn
» Sure...
Posted by: peleo_huntress
» RE: Japanese have evolved into their diet. We haven't
Posted by: Iaela
» RE: Japanese have evolved into their diet. We haven't
Posted by: KeepsonTickn
» RE: Japanese have evolved into their diet. We haven't
Posted by: Iaela
» RE: Japanese have evolved into their diet. We haven't
Posted by: peleo_huntress
» RE: Learn from a Japanese, not a caveman.
Posted by: YogiBear
» Japanese people do NOT live longer than Americans
Posted by: peleo_huntress
Comments are closed-
Posted by: bravegirl68 on Aug 16, 2007 4:04 AM
Current rating: 3 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Like others have said, fad diets shouldn't be promoted. Just eat less and exercise more.
And if you want to be kinder to the earth, eat less meat and more whole grains, veggies and legumes.
It doesn't get more simpler than that. .. And I would imagine most of us here already know this.
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» RE: Sad to See This Here
Posted by: hagwind
» Too funny...
Posted by: peleo_huntress
» Eat less and exercise more doesn't really work
Posted by: harpy
Comments are closed-
Posted by: WitchyNy on Aug 16, 2007 5:12 AM
Current rating: 3 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Will that be published next?
The author is right in that we need to get back to a basic natural diet. However-
Cave MEN-lived mostly on food gathered by WOMEN. Hunting was dramatic-but gathering actually fed the tribe. Which was mostly fruit, berries, vegetables and wild grains.
WE are monkeys-that is primates...who eat little if any meat. We have very long intestines...meat eating animals have very short guts...so they can get rid of all that meat fast.
Losing weight or being skinny is not 'health'. Hawaiians and Vikings were big healthy people. Ancient Eskimos, who are often used as an example of 'natural' eating of lots of meat, normally had very short life spans. They also ate all their meat raw-to get all the vitamins and minerals. They eat more vegetables now days.
The author buys his meat at the grocery store-hardly 'natural' meat. That is beef mostly from chemical filled-grain fed drugged up- caged- domestic cows. And you can't get more unnatural than that. And beef cattle are very bad for our environment.
We need to evolve our diet to be healthy, for ourselves AND our planet. Unlike Cave men, we can choose what to eat. We need to make wise choices.
My big healthy college boys were raised vegetarian. Aside from very occasional Wild Salmon, and our home grown eggs from free range chickens, they don't eat meat or fish at all. But men seem to crave the texture and taste of meat. I suggest Boca veggie burgers and tofu hot dogs.
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» RE: NO-
Posted by: cellorelio
» Subsistence gathering provided subsistence.
Posted by: ABetterFuture
» No... wrong.
Posted by: JoshuaLudd
» Calories = leisure. Leisure = time to think. Time to think = time to create
Posted by: ABetterFuture
» RE: Calories = leisure. Leisure = time to think. Time to think = time to create
Posted by: peleo_huntress
» Likewise, I'd point out...
Posted by: ABetterFuture
» RE: Likewise, I'd point out...
Posted by: peleo_huntress
» Soy is poison...
Posted by: peleo_huntress
» RE: Soy is poison...
Posted by: JoshuaLudd
» RE: Soy is poison...
Posted by: WitchyNy
» RE: Soy is poison...
Posted by: peleo_huntress
» huntress-
Posted by: WitchyNy
» I don't understand.
Posted by: mjabele
» RE: I don't understand.
Posted by: WitchyNy
» RE: huntress-
Posted by: peleo_huntress
» RE: huntress-Get a goat.
Posted by: WitchyNy
» RE: huntress-Get a goat.
Posted by: peleo_huntress
» RE: peleo_huntress is a meat eating Nazi Neo-vore!!!!
Posted by: peleo_huntress
» There are organic pesticides...
Posted by: Paleo_Huntress
» RE: huntress-
Posted by: paleogal
» RE: Soy is poison...
Posted by: MAD
» Mostly fish and veggies..
Posted by: harpy
» RE: Soy is poison...
Posted by: owleyes
» RE: Soy is poison...
Posted by: peleo_huntress
» RE: NO-
Posted by: MAD
» to MAD
Posted by: WitchyNy
» RE: to MAD
Posted by: MAD
» RE: to MAD
Posted by: WitchyNy
» RE: NO-
Posted by: KeepsonTickn
» Keepson-
Posted by: WitchyNy
» RE: Query:
Posted by: oregoncharles
» RE: Query:Extra Males-
Posted by: WitchyNy
» RE: Keepson-
Posted by: peleo_huntress
» RE: Keepson-
Posted by: KeepsonTickn
» You are probably correct...
Posted by: peleo_huntress
» Please cite the pro-vegetarian website describing human vs carnivore vs herbivore digestive systems.
Posted by: KeepsonTickn
» RE: Please cite the pro-vegetarian website describing human vs carnivore vs herbivore digestive syst
Posted by: WitchyNy
» RE: Keepson-
Posted by: peleo_huntress
» RE: NO-
Posted by: greenkris
Comments are closed-
Posted by: cellorelio on Aug 16, 2007 5:17 AM
Current rating: 4 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
I am a vegetarian (actually, I will eat fish) and have been for ten years. That doesn't mean my lifestyle was a healthy one. Until a few years ago, I ate mainly processed carbs in the form of white wheat bread, white rice, refined oils, and packaged foods containing high-fructose corn syrup, hydrogenated oils, and artificial colors, flavors, and preservatives.
In the past three years, I've educated myself about just how deadly those fake foods are. Now I only eat whole unprocessed grains, lots of fresh fruits and veggies, organically grown when available, unpasteurized cheese when possible, lots of fermented foods like tempe, homemade sauerkraut, pasteurized plain yogurt (that I flavor with fresh fruits), and homemade sourdough bread. I've eliminated most packaged foods and only buy ones that have few ingredients. Never anything with HFCS, hydrogenated oils, or any artificial ingredients.
It's also vital to walk and/or bike daily. 30 minutes of walking at a brisk pace each day does wonders for the body. I've been at my optimum weight now for several years and am in the best health ever.
I highly recommend the following:
Fast Food Nation by Eric Schlosser
Lick the Sugar Habit by Nancy Appleton
Mad Cowboy by Howard Lyman
The Revolution Will Not Be Microwaved: by Sandor Katz
Twinkie, Deconstructed by Steve Ettlinger
Sugar Blues by William Duffy
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» RE: Cavepeople Didn't Eat Refined Carbs
Posted by: peleo_huntress
» RE: Cavepeople Didn't Eat Refined Carbs
Posted by: Saitia
» Aren't those euphemisms handy little buggers?
Posted by: hagwind
» RE: Cavepeople Didn't Eat Refined Carbs
Posted by: peleo_huntress
» RE: Cavepeople Didn't Eat Refined Carbs
Posted by: lisagimlet
» RE: Cavepeople Didn't Eat Refined Carbs
Posted by: cellorelio
Comments are closed-
Posted by: existen on Aug 16, 2007 5:37 AM
Current rating: 3 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
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» RE: and what of the social implications
Posted by: peleo_huntress
» RE: and what of the social implications
Posted by: existen
» RE: and what of the social implications
Posted by: indradawn
» huntress-Myth#1
Posted by: WitchyNy
» RE: huntress-Myth#1
Posted by: peleo_huntress
» RE: and what of the social implications
Posted by: Theodore
» Yes!
Posted by: KeepsonTickn
» RE: and what of the social implications
Posted by: jeff303
» RE: and what of the social implications
Posted by: YogiBear
Comments are closed-
Posted by: willymack on Aug 16, 2007 6:35 AM
Current rating: 4 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
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» Agree with you
Posted by: harpy
Comments are closed-
Posted by: pdxstudent on Aug 16, 2007 6:52 AM
Current rating: 2 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Pre-agricultural people lived day to day, and I am sure that was at times extremely hard work. It in no way compares to what we know understand as exercise though.
Rather than exercise like a "cave man," try actually living like one. Living a life without the constant intervention of technological comfort, either in a mechanical-strength sense or an intellectual-computational sense, is going to build character, not "the right diet" or "the right exercise regimine."
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» Don't foget the parasites! Great for weight loss!
Posted by: ABetterFuture
» So.. what is it that keeps us from getting parasites today???
Posted by: JoshuaLudd
» Not so much.
Posted by: ABetterFuture
» Which is why people who live in nature don't shit where they eat and drink. nm
Posted by: JoshuaLudd
» Hopeless romantic.
Posted by: ABetterFuture
» RE: Not so much.
Posted by: cellorelio
» RE: "cave people" most certainly didn't execise
Posted by: screwjack2000
» RE: "cave people" most certainly didn't execise
Posted by: willymack
Comments are closed-
Posted by: warpspasm on Aug 16, 2007 6:52 AM
Current rating: 4 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
The idea about eating humans sounds good. There are many fat and chewy ones in my neighborhood who would make a tasty barbecue. They would be easy to catch on their leisurely evening strolls. Not being outwardly fat does not equal being strong and fit. Having been fascinated by training and human development for over 25 years the basic message in the Paleo diet has worked wonders for me.
So far as a vegetarian diet being good for the planet this idea avoids a basic issue. The problem is that there are too many people. And when they start to die from starvation we feed them gruel and keep them alive so they keep having more kids who we can feed gruel and so on and so on. Increased food production equals increased population. It's a vicious circle.
Until the core problem of massive overpopulation is dealt with all the good intentions for, and whining about, the environment will do nothing. This hard and brutal fact is one no one wants to address. Until we can begin to understand that humans cannot operate outside the laws of biology and carrying capacity we will continue to denude the planet like a hoard of locusts.
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» There is enough food for all. Have you seen the food wasted in homes, restaurants and groceterias?
Posted by: SayBlade
» RE: Human twinkies
Posted by: Strawman
» Most think they need a grain based diet because subsidies
Posted by: harpy
» RE: Human twinkies
Posted by: YogiBear
Comments are closed-
Posted by: BeeGee on Aug 16, 2007 6:56 AM
Current rating: 3 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
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» RE: Could be your blood type...
Posted by: bbfmail
» RE: Could be your blood type...
Posted by: peleo_huntress
» RE: Could be your blood type...
Posted by: HoboHomo
» Probably NOT your blood type!
Posted by: aaronfetty
» RE: Probably NOT your blood type!
Posted by: peleo_huntress
» misrepresented science
Posted by: aaronfetty
» Imperical evidence & agendas...
Posted by: peleo_huntress
Comments are closed-
Posted by: cyrano on Aug 16, 2007 6:57 AM
Current rating: 4 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Part of the problem with lots of so-called "healthy" foods marketed today is that they are in fact ultra-processed and full of simple sugars, salt and artificial ingredients. Just because it says "healthy" on the package doesn't make it so.
As it always seems to go nowadays, we are subject more to marketing than good advice, even from the USDA (which is supposed to be on the side of the consumer).
The best lifestyle: eat a balanced diet, avoid processed food most of the time, and have a good relationship with food. Eat good stuff and enjoy what you eat.
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» Complex carbs will still store as fat
Posted by: harpy
» RE: Complex carbs will still store as fat
Posted by: KeepsonTickn
» The USDA is on the side of selling more grains
Posted by: harpy
Comments are closed-
Posted by: SteveO on Aug 16, 2007 6:59 AM
Current rating: 3 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
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» RE: Congratulations, you've discovered
Posted by: Klaus
» Actually, it's nothing like Atkins; see my re:"shallow tripe" (n/t)
Posted by: jeff303
» Yes, it is, I've done Atkins for years
Posted by: harpy
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Posted by: JPHickey on Aug 16, 2007 7:01 AM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
So I cut out most carbs and sugars (including fruit), and did lose 25 lbs in two months. This was rediculous, though successful, so I added some carbs and fruit, and my weight stagnated, again.
So now I again eat berries but little other fruit. I eat vegetables that are low carb, and I continue to eliminate all corn, potatoes, wheat, dairy products, or white sugar. I also eat all the free-range chicken, turkey, raw nuts, and oilve oil that I want. I usually boil the chicken, and cool the broth to remove the fat.
So I have stumbled on to my own version of the "caveman" diet. I feel satisfied eating much less, and the pounds are coming off again. With continuous tweeking, I believe I'll easily meet my goal of getting 50 lbs (total) by Jan. 1, 2008. I also believe I can stick to it for the rest of my life!
Oh yes, I still drink a little wine now and then, but avoid beer or hard liquor.
This approach in one form or another greatly increases insulin sensitivity, and frees the body's inherent capacity to heal naturally.
A wealth of information is available on the web. For instance, Google insulin sensitivity. Dr. Robin Rosedale offers some fine insulin sensitization diets, for instance.
The above article is too sensationalized. There are many interpretations of the paleolithic diet. I have been successful without going off the deep end. And I'm able to wear clothes I haven't been able to get into for over a decade.
Another unexpected benefit is that my food cravings are gone, I feel calmer and more satisfied with life in general. Also, I do go off the diet when breaking bread with friends, as man doth not live by bread alone, but even my face looks different. Liver spots have faded, and without the "baby fat", my bone structure is more perceptible, which adds a little character.
I say figure it out for yourself! If you want to reverse the ravages of aging and avoid the need for medical treatments and lifelong need for perscribed drugs, get serious about some sort of insulin sensitization diet or other!
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» Fat isn't bad...
Posted by: peleo_huntress
» More quotes from Castelli
Posted by: aaronfetty
» I read the actual studies myself...
Posted by: peleo_huntress
» read different sources!
Posted by: aaronfetty
» I read them all & "bias"...
Posted by: peleo_huntress
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Posted by: ShoShenQ on Aug 16, 2007 7:52 AM
Current rating: 4 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
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» RE: i like the idea of this article
Posted by: peleo_huntress
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Posted by: vasumurti on Aug 16, 2007 8:03 AM
Current rating: 3 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Humans resemble the other primates (frugivores) and possess a set of completely herbivorous teeth. In The Human Story, edited by Marie-Louise Makris (1985), we read: "...recent studies of their teeth reveal that the Australopithecines did not eat meat as a regular part of their diet, and were mainly peaceful vegetarians, rather like chimps or gorillas. The popular image of the murderous ape is now as extinct as the Australopithecines themselves."
Zoologist Desmond Morris makes a case for vegetarianism in The Naked Ape: "It could be argued that, since our primate ancestors had to make do without a major meat component in their diets we should be able to do the same. We were driven to become flesh eaters only by environmental circumstances, and now that we have the environment under control, with elaborately cultivated crops at our disposal, we might be expected to return to our ancient primate feeding patterns."
How did agriculture arise? One particularly interesting theory is put forth by Mark Nathan Cohen in his book The Food Crisis in Prehistory. This view is startlingly simple: agriculture developed because the world was overpopulated. Relative to the existing hunter-gatherer technology, the environment was incapable of supporting the existing population.
'"It seems odd at first to think of the world as being overpopulated...when the population was only a fraction of what it is today or to think of the world as environmentally exhausted, when it was more fertile than it is now,'" observes author Keith Akers in A Vegetarian Sourcebook.
"But we must remember that the hunter-gatherer technology is extremely inefficient with respect to land resources. It is estimated that each of the Kung bushmen (a modern hunter-gatherer society) requires over 10 square kilometers of land -- more than 2,500 acres. At this rate of land use, the world could hardly have supported more than a few million hunter-gatherers."
According to one theory, primitive men were anatomically ill equipped to be full-time predators. Plant food was thus the basis of their diet, and meat was eaten infrequently. Hunting with primitive weapons--bones, sticks, and spears--is far more difficult than most people realize. Even throwing a rock with accuracy demands great practice and skill. If this theory is correct, primitive man's time was spent mostly gathering and foraging for plant foods.
A study of the Bush People of the Kalahari in Africa found that, even during a serious drought, the most important source of food came from vegetables. Four out of eleven males never went hunting. The others killed 18 animals in eight days. Their chances of obtaining meat on any day was about 25 percent.
On the other hand, the women always returned from their gathering expeditions with food; a 100 percent success rate. The entire tribe was able to comfortably feed itself if each member contributed 15 hours of work per week--even better than our own society's achievement.
"It seems...the real heroes of our Stone Age period were the women, not the men," observes British author Peter Cox in his 1986 book, Why You Don't Need Meat: "...our ancestors ate much more plant food than is popularly believed."
On a vegetarian diet, the world could easily support a population several times its present size. The world's cattle alone consume enough to feed over 8.7 billion humans.
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» I am a Homosapien, last I checked...
Posted by: indradawn
» indradawn
Posted by: WitchyNy
» RE: indradawn
Posted by: indradawn
» RE: The Vegetarian Alternative (?)
Posted by: oregoncharles
» RE: The Vegetarian Alternative
Posted by: Klaus
» The Worst Mistake in the History of the Human Race- Agriculture
Posted by: peleo_huntress
» Thank You For The Vegetarian Alternative
Posted by: wagadog
» RE: Thank You For The Vegetarian Alternative
Posted by: peleo_huntress
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Posted by: InsertNameHere on Aug 16, 2007 8:05 AM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
This was in the draft report. The Sugar Association Inc., of course, was not amused. They exerted enough pressure to have the recommendation down played or removed from the final report. I believe also that they had the Doctor heading the report discredited and removed. I am not sure now of the exact details, but I am sure you can still get the draft report from the WHO website.
There was an excellent documentary on the sugar industry which covered this story called Big Sugar .
This documentary also details the daily life of sugar plantation workers in the Dominican Republic, I saw it some time ago so I could be mistaken. These poor bastards have a pretty tough time, typical third world serfdom stuff.
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» RE: WHO Report
Posted by: indradawn
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Posted by: Conservasaurus on Aug 16, 2007 8:09 AM
Current rating: 4 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
The authors diet is basically one that minimizes sugar intake which will turn to fat in favor of high protien diet..
I wouldn't be so concerned about high cholesterol levels with that diet as I'd be more concerned about impact on the kidneys.. he should be drinking ALOT of water - at least half his body weight in ounces per day!
Cutting out cardio is a mistake as well.. I'm sure Cavemen chased some of their prey around..or cave women at the least! But the benefits of cardio on a healthy heart cannot be denied.
Probably one of the least benefical routines one can do is pure weight lifting..how many people lay on a bench when they pick something up! There are many ways to approach strength training but most now focus on functional strength.
How are you going to pick up that dinosaur you just killed (poor fellow) and drag him back to the cave... straight perfectly supported weight lifting isnt going to do that - kettle bells, stability balls combined with strength training, band training etc is a much better way to build that lean look and functional strtength cave men and women so love!
Again - Great article Alternet. I love the health and wellness issues!
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Posted by: SayBlade on Aug 16, 2007 8:15 AM
Current rating: 3 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
That aside, the metabolism of people who live in colder climates is different than those in warmer and tropical climates. Their bodies are more adapted to higher fats and meats from fish, seal, caribou, muskox and bear eaten fresh and raw which are expended in vigorous physical activity and keeping warm.
In warmer climates meat, particularly red meat, is not readily available or affordable, especially for those with lower incomes. So, these people are mostly vegetarian with high intake of grains, vegetables, nuts and fruit and are leaner and healthier, too.
Others who are in temperate climates tend to have busier, more stressful lifestyles (and are wealthier) that depend heavily on prepared and refined foods since there is little time to prepare a meal from scratch. They have more problems with heart disease, diabetes and myriad other ailments not experienced by those in more extreme climates.
So, even if this diet regimen worked for one person one cannot necessarily expect it to work for others.
Case in point, I went vegetarian a few years ago avoiding prepared and refined foods as much as possible, lost weight without trying, eat as much as I want and still maintain my weight. But, that's not the formula for everyone. Other factors including lifestyle, exercise, stress levels have a huge impact on maintaining weight. If you're stuck behind a desk all day, Shreeve's diet could kill you.
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» Stuck behind a desk...
Posted by: peleo_huntress
» RE: Stuck behind a desk... I said 'could" not "would." ...
Posted by: SayBlade
» Very thankful...
Posted by: peleo_huntress
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Posted by: peleo_huntress on Aug 16, 2007 8:30 AM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Nasty, Brutish and Short?
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» What Fat???
Posted by: dnaylor
» RE: What Fat???
Posted by: kiel
» RE: What Fat???
Posted by: peleo_huntress
» RE: What Fat???
Posted by: trajan321
» RE: What Fat???
Posted by: peleo_huntress
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Posted by: solrev on Aug 16, 2007 8:31 AM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
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Posted by: pzzp on Aug 16, 2007 9:05 AM
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I have a desk job, I don't exercise but stay active with yard work, office stairs, nothing strenuous. I eat whatever I want, whenever I want it, and I have weighed the same for the last 30 years.
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» RE: M E T A B O L I S M ! ! !
Posted by: indradawn
» RE: M E T A B O L I S M ! ! !
Posted by: pzzp
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Posted by: pocomoco on Aug 16, 2007 9:15 AM
Current rating: 4 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
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Posted by: ChittoGreen on Aug 16, 2007 9:43 AM
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Eating meat leaves an acid residue in the body and viruses, bacteria, yeast, and cancer love acid environments.
The meat the cavemen ate was lean, extremely lean for the most part, and the animals ate lots of different types of grasses.
The meat you're eating is grain fed and nitrate laden, so you may experience a short term benefit, but in the long run, you're at high risk for many diseases.
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» RE: A little knowledge.....
Posted by: indradawn
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Posted by: indradawn on Aug 16, 2007 9:43 AM
Current rating: 4 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
People love to call the Atkins diet a "fad," though no special purchases were required. Some Atkins products were made available to help people conquer their sweet tooth or love of pasta, but no Atkins products were required to do the diet. No special pills, nothing. Those same people who call these "diets" fads never read the studies that prove Dr. Atkins and the author of this article correct. And correct he is. A hunter-gatherer diet makes for an incredible energy level, and no nagging hunger or cravings.
Don't play into the industry's hands. Eat meats and healthy green vegetables produced by your local farmer. Don't be afraid of fats in moderation. Avoid sugar at all costs--cancer cells feed on glucose.
Sorry vegetarians. You are a part of the food chain whether you like it or not. You avoid meats, rich sources of essential proteins, at your own peril.
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» RE: Food industry conspiracy
Posted by: phatkhat
» RE: Food industry conspiracy
Posted by: dlueth
» RE: Food industry conspiracy
Posted by: indradawn
» Possible but extremely difficult...
Posted by: peleo_huntress
» plants have all essential proteins
Posted by: aaronfetty
» Complete proteins? And?
Posted by: peleo_huntress
» RE: Food industry conspiracy
Posted by: Klaus
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Posted by: scheherezade on Aug 16, 2007 10:21 AM
Current rating: Not yet rated [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
It might not be short, but it sounds pretty poor, nasty, brutish, and probably rather solitary...
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» RE: Life without butter?
Posted by: phatkhat
» RE: Life without butter?
Posted by: YogiBear
» RE: Life without butter?
Posted by: Benjaminsjw
» Fermentation and leptin resistence...
Posted by: peleo_huntress
» RE: Life without butter?
Posted by: peleo_huntress
Comments are closed-
Posted by: Gravitas on Aug 16, 2007 10:32 AM
Current rating: 1 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
"Weight obsession is a social disease. If we cared more about CO2 than BMI there might still be time."
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» RE: The New Talisman
Posted by: Mamarianne
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Posted by: screwjack2000 on Aug 16, 2007 10:49 AM
Current rating: 3 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
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» Why? Many of us just oppose industrialized meat. nm
Posted by: JoshuaLudd
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Posted by: mandiwrite on Aug 16, 2007 11:01 AM
Current rating: 4 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
As for the poster who said something ridiculous about farmers kicking their asses, you should read up on how the agri-transition took place. It took ages, without much in the way of identifiable aggression between gatherers and farmers - in fact, in some places, there is evidence that farmers gave up and went back to their previous lifestyle. Wise choice, if you ask me: gatherers were MUCH healthier, you can see that in their height, the health of their bones and their gleaming, strong teeth. But puh-lease, it wasn't daily consumption of whacks of meat that made them that way - meat for them, as it is for modern Mediterranean types, was a treat, a condiment, to be dried and added to stews, for example. Not a huge step from there to vegetarianism - and this was the way we really evolved to eat. You'd all be better off if you ate mostly fruit and veg, with a little meat or fish thrown in occasionally. (Thinks: isn't this rather like the Japanese diet, after all?)
This writer has an epiphany about meat and trots off to buy a haul that would make a Khoi-San's eyes pop out. Ever heard of moderation, chaps?
Finally, the gatherers lived, as so many researcher have shown, the original, and true, Affluent Life. A couple of hours of 'work' each day; no need to sweat it out in the gym, because your leisure time was spent dancing, playing, polishing ostrich eggs into beads, acting out stories, cuddling babies, and indulging in the occasional trance-dance... and very little in the way of disease/parasites because you weren't crammed up next to each other in stinking dirty cities. Sigh...
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Posted by: dlueth on Aug 16, 2007 11:33 AM
Current rating: 3 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
1) As any archaeologist will tell you, most of the "Stone Age cavemen" ate largely vegetarian diets. Meat was a supplement, not a staple. Get your facts straight about what people ate in the "Stone Age" before you claim you're eating a "Stone Age" diet.
2) "Our cave ancestors....lived as long as they do today." You've got to be kidding. This is the sort of ridiculous claim that happens when you rely on one suspect source, Art De Vany, instead of actually checking the archaeological literature for yourself.
3) Of course you lose weight when you eat mostly meat. That's because protein is more difficult to digest than carbohydrates so most of it goes straight through your system.
4) Turning it into a choice between heavily processed, modern foods and a meat-heavy diet is a ridiculous false dichotomy. Yes, much of what you find in the grocery store is recently added to our diet, heavily refined, and bad for your health. So are large slabs of meat. People have been eating fruits, vegetables, legumes, and grains for hundreds of thousands of years at least, and it is both possible and quite easy to eat such a diet. Where does that fit on your "meat vs. refined foods" dichotomy?
5) Raisins were "staple snack foods for the Stone Age eater"? As was "a selection of nuts -- brazils, pecans, hazels, almonds and walnuts"? Wow, they got around. A cheap shot, I know, but it still needs pointing out that the author is creating a single, stereotypical "Stone Age eater" who ate whatever the author claims "he" (no cavewomen in the Stone Age, apparently) ate. Apparently there was no cultural or dietic differentiation back then--all "Stone Age eaters" ate the same diet as our author. Trust Mr. Shreeve, he says so himself.
6) Shreeve cites a "professor in the health and exercise department" as an expert on comparative genetics. This same professor, Loren Cordain, apparently claims that the agricultural revolution caused us to get "fatter and shorter." Again, please do some research before making such ridiculous claims. Especially since Cordain then conflates "Neolithic, industrial-era and modern-era foods" as though they were interchangeable.
7) "Weightlifting workouts that mimicked the activities of ancient hunter-gatherers"? You're kidding, right?
One wonders about what "conventional 'wisdom ' about nutrition" Jimmy Lee Shreeve is talking about.
I have to say this article is certainly is amazing. It's propaganda worthy of any advertising firm. It's very effective to repeat "eating like a caveman" over and over while discussing a meat-heavy diet. Doing so connects the two in the mind of the reader, setting up a framework in which eating meat becomes a natural state experienced by "our ancient ancestors" and which we would do well, the author alleges, to return to. The problem is, this version of the ancient past is one created by the author and his few, highly questionable sources, with no basis in archaeological reality.
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» RE: shallow tripe
Posted by: screwjack2000
» RE: shallow tripe
Posted by: dlueth
» RE: shallow tripe
Posted by: peleo_huntress
» On the one hand...
Posted by: mjabele
» RE: shallow tripe
Posted by: jeff303
» RE: shallow tripe
Posted by: dlueth
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Posted by: Liger on Aug 16, 2007 11:42 AM
Current rating: 2 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
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» RE: If God didn't want us to eat animals...
Posted by: screwjack2000
» If God didn't want us to eat one another then war would not have been invented by humans ...
Posted by: SayBlade
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Posted by: allusiv on Aug 16, 2007 12:01 PM
Current rating: 1 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
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» How about READING some REAL RESEARCH?
Posted by: indradawn
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Posted by: thoughtcriminal on Aug 16, 2007 12:18 PM
Current rating: 3 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Ancient Human Hair May Be Key To Understanding Diet Of Ancient Civilizations, ScienceDaily
"Macko has recently analyzed hair clippings from the Neolithic Ice Man of the Oetztaler Alps; the Coptics of Egypt; the Late Middle Kingdom mummies of Egypt; and the Chinchorro mummies of Chile.
He has found that the Ice Man -- thought by some to be a hunter -- was probably a very strict vegetarian at the time of his death. "There's little indication of meat consumption," Macko says. The Coptics of Egypt, like the Chinchorro of Chile, ate a wide variety of vegetables, grains, meats, seafood and dairy products, "sort of like the modern-day supermarket diet," Macko says. The Late Middle Kingdom Egyptians, on the other hand, appear to have eaten a somewhat restricted diet with more animal products. "It seems that the upper-class of the time, perhaps for some sociological reason, had a much less diverse diet than was available to them," Macko says."
Some Alternet editor deserves a medal for 'worst article of the week' on this stinker.
As many have pointed out, this is the high-protein "Atkins diet" which does cause you to lose weight, short-term, but than you rapidly regain it.
The Atkins diet is based on loading your system with protein and limiting carbohydrates. This is not such a bad idea if your main source of carbohydrates is high-fructose corn syrup, like it is for most Americans.
When you eat, you burn your food to CO2 - but protein is loaded down with nitrogen, so to eat protein your body has to excrete a lot of cellular water. The Atkin's diet is the water-loss diet!
Only in America could this nonsense be sold to a high-fructose corn syrup-fattened population.
So, what is a healthy diet? Your body needs carbohydrates, protein, fats and vitamins and minerals in order to maintain itself - and it also needs physical exercise (your immune system is passive, and it needs muscular action to pump the lymph around - which is why obesity leads to secondary medical problems).
Alternet pimps for the Atkins diet! Tut, tut, tut...
Of course, if you really want to lose weight, you can always go on the American fallback, The Methamphetamine Diet - also known as the Ritalin Diet, or the Adderall Diet. How many 'dieters' turn to crystal meth when their Ritalin runs out? No, really, doctor, I suffer from adult ADD...
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» RE: Well, it's been said already, but here are the details:
Posted by: indradawn
» Agreed...
Posted by: peleo_huntress
» did you not read the article about the hair?
Posted by: thoughtcriminal
» I did...
Posted by: peleo_huntress
» Ever hear of wild rice? (PS you're possibly right about the iceman!)
Posted by: thoughtcriminal
» RE: ver hear of wild rice? (PS you're possibly right about the iceman!)
Posted by: peleo_huntress
» RE: Well, it's been said already, but here are the details:
Posted by: jeff303
» RE: Well, it's been said already, but here are the details:
Posted by: paleogal
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Posted by: lordzombie on Aug 16, 2007 12:21 PM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
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Posted by: felixcommi on Aug 16, 2007 12:19 PM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
I have witnessed many people I know get into incredible shape just eating meat. The results are phenomenally quick. I am a vegetarian who barely eats any dairy and I'm a total skron but I think any diet you do will work if you're disciplined. The all meat diet, particularly the element of no sugar, make sit so easy to be thin.
This diet liekly isn't incredibly dangerous if you are disciplined and stick to lean meats. All the crap in meat is on vegetables and fruits too. Farmers bathe/inject everything they produce in chemicals. (except organic which aint always feasible for working class folk --- so lets not get high and mighty about it)
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Posted by: dnaylor on Aug 16, 2007 12:31 PM
Current rating: 1 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
There is one small good point here. Omega 3's and 6's are out of balence in our diet these days. By returning to something like what people actually ate centuries ago, this is improved (but not by this fantasy cavemen hunted and barbequed all the time BS).
Alternet really needs to get someone who actually knows something about health. This is a very, very laughable article. It is the equivalent of we invaded Iraq because of weapons of mass destruction. Actually, it is far worse. Fortunutely, the readers mostly know better.
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» RE: Get someone who actually knows?
Posted by: henderson
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Posted by: owleyes on Aug 16, 2007 1:00 PM
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Posted by: bcgirl125 on Aug 16, 2007 1:45 PM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
The archeological record shows that when humans switched from a hunter-gatherer lifestyle to grain-based agriculture, the result was a decrease in stature, an increase in dental disease and bone abnormalities, and a shorter lifespan.
Probably humans adopted a grain-based diet because of increasing scarcity of game. Grain based diets allow an increased number of humans to survive, though definitely not thrive, in the same amount of territory. It's not our natural diet, and our bodies don't cope well with it.
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» humans have evolved in the past 10,000 years to deal with grains - but not with PCBs
Posted by: thoughtcriminal
» We have NOT evolved...
Posted by: peleo_huntress
» RE: We have NOT evolved...
Posted by: shanaza
» RE: We have NOT evolved...
Posted by: peleo_huntress
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Posted by: Moira61 on Aug 16, 2007 3:07 PM
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Posted by: sphoenix on Aug 16, 2007 5:51 PM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Title: Nourishing Traditions
I have been working with this book for about 6 months and working on personal diet issues for 20 years. This book may lead some of you in the right direction and give you the ability to sensibly balance your diet.
Let's face it ...people won't agree on a proper diet because there is simply too much misinformation out there and the constant beating of the corporate drummers drowns out the truths.
The only way I've found to discover a diet that is right for me is to do the work...study, try things, research, study, try things....
I have found what is right for me...good luck to the rest of you.
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» She is a cofounder of westonaprice.come...
Posted by: peleo_huntress
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Posted by: cnetto on Aug 16, 2007 7:09 PM
Current rating: 4 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
yah it must have been the grains and beans that were really causing all that weight to be added, and are probably the cause of so many health problems?????
how do whole grains get mixed in with processed foods and "sugar desserts"????
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» RE: rocket science???
Posted by: paleogal
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Posted by: dgpdx on Aug 16, 2007 7:48 PM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
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Posted by: vasumurti on Aug 16, 2007 10:04 PM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
The reality? As part of a secular moral philosophy, ethical vegetarianism and purchasing only cruelty-free products are comparable to economic boycotting -- a political tactic used by liberals and conservatives alike.
In The Case for Animal Riqhts, Dr. Tom Regan observes: "The rights view is not antagonistic to business, free enterprise, the market mechanism, and the like. What the rights view is antagonistic to is the view that consumers owe it to any business to purchase that business's goods or services. The animal industry is no exception."
According to Dr. Regan: "The rights view's denunciation of standard toxicity tests on animals is not antibusiness. It does not deny any manufacturer the liberty to introduce any new product into the marketplace, to compete with the others already there, and to sink or swim in the waters of free enterprise.
"All that the rights view denies is that the toxicity of any new product may be pretested on animals in ways harmful to them. Nonanimal alternatives are not ruled out by the rights view. On the contrary, their development should be encouraged, both on the grounds of the public interest and because of the legitimate legal interests of the manufacturers.
"Nor is the rights view antiscientific," concludes Dr. Regan. "It places the scientific challenge before pharmacologists and related scientists: find scientifically valid ways that serve the public interest without violating individual rights."
Abolitionists are almost always accused of being anti-capitalist by the very industries they attack. James Boswell, an 18th century pro-slavery writer, wrote:
"...the anti-slavery crusade...the ranting of a handful of moralistic bigots, (which attempted)...to abolish so very important and necessary a branch of commercial interest, must have been crushed at once had not the insignificance of the zealots who vainly took the lead in it, made the vast body of planters, merchants and others, whose immense properties were involved in the trade...suppose that there would be no danger."
Anti-abolitionists claimed that the end of human slavery would bring with it the collapse of the economic structure of the Southern United States. In his book, The Status of Animals in the Christian Religion, C.W. Hume noted:
"The major cruelties practiced on animals in civilized countries today arise out of commercial exploitation, and the fear of losing profits is the chief obstacle to reform."
"When I listen to Limbaugh, as I often do," wrote Molly Ivins back in the '90s, "I find he consistently targets dead people, little girls, the homeless, and animals -- none of whom are in a particularly good position to respond. It is the consistency of his selection of helpless targets that I find so appalling.
"On his TV show in 1993, he put up a picture of Socks, the White House cat, and said: ‘Did you know there's a White House dog?’ And then he put up a picture of Chelsea Clinton, who was 13 years old and as far as I know had never done any harm to anyone...
"I also think he has a somewhat cult-like effect on his followers. They listen to him for three and a half hours a day on radio and television. I am in a position to assure you that David Koresh did not talk to the Branch Davidians that much. But that is precisely what cult leaders do: They talk to their followers hour after hour after hour."
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» I would be happy to destroy Capitalism-
Posted by: WitchyNy
Comments are closed-
Posted by: EKSwitaj on Aug 16, 2007 11:37 PM
Current rating: Not yet rated [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
On top of that, I'm not contributing to the cruel mistreatment of animals on factory farms, and I'm massively reducing my carbon footprint (see http://www-news.uchicago.edu/releases/06/060413.diet.shtml). Sure I care about my waistline, but there are other ethical issues at stake here.
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» RE: Losing Weight Isn't All that Matters
Posted by: Klaus
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Posted by: masumane on Aug 17, 2007 2:45 AM
Current rating: Not yet rated [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Try to ride a bicycle for more than two (2) hours 6 days a week. You just cannot eat more than you consume. Cycling consumes, for a large man, more than 1000 kcal per hour. Two hours, 6 days a week, is then enough for losing 2 kg (4 pounds).
Simple, trivial. It is not about carbs, or fat, or proteins, or anything. It is about exercise.
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» LMAO
Posted by: peleo_huntress
» Heavy exercise can't be kept up long term
Posted by: harpy
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Posted by: FDPN on Aug 17, 2007 3:47 AM
Current rating: Not yet rated [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
How much fruit does this diet include exactly? How many grams of carbs per day? What are your macronutrient ratios? How many calories do you consume in a day? This isn't much of a diet at all so much as it is a random list of foods from the Atkin's program.
You do know that fruit has sugar in it right? If you eat enough fruit in a day you may as well be downing Coke's and eating cream pies (but you get some nutrients that aren't in Coke).
There is no reason NOT to eat vegetables on the Atkins diet because they have next to no calories or carbs but contain important nutrients and vitamins. I lost tons of weight on an Atkins variant and I ate plenty of veggies.
Anyway, welcome to 1999 when Atkins was a huge craze.
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» Fruit is like soda and cream pies?! In whose reality?
Posted by: peleo_huntress
» Atkins does include fruit
Posted by: harpy
» And Atkins requires green veggies
Posted by: harpy
» Potatoes are a vegetable
Posted by: FDPN
Comments are closed-
Posted by: eksommer on Aug 17, 2007 5:47 AM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
I admire the author's dedication and focus, and I agree that our modern diet is laced with poisons and way too carb heavy, but there is a middle road.
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» RE: Nourishng Traditions
Posted by: peleo_huntress
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Posted by: jingles on Aug 17, 2007 7:32 AM
Current rating: Not yet rated [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Did the author's weight training involve squatting and bending over a lot while being constantly alert for predators? Did this make the author happy?
Meat is way grody and it is harder to clean the dishes meat is on.
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» Seriously?
Posted by: peleo_huntress
» Seriously
Posted by: jingles
» RE: Seriously
Posted by: peleo_huntress
» RE: Seriously
Posted by: jingles
» Euphemisms...
Posted by: peleo_huntress
» RE: uphemisms...
Posted by: jingles
» High Horse (1)...
Posted by: Paleo_Huntress
» RE: High Horse (1)...
Posted by: jingles
» Stronger...
Posted by: peleo_huntress
» RE: Stronger...
Posted by: jingles
» High Horse (2)...
Posted by: Paleo_Huntress
» RE: High Horse (2)...
Posted by: jingles
» RE: High Horse (2)...
Posted by: peleo_huntress
» RE: High Horse (2)...
Posted by: jingles
Comments are closed-
Posted by: xbj on Aug 17, 2007 12:42 PM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
This is a person who gained 25 lbs. in 10 DAYS on a so-called "healthy" vegetarian diet, which EXCLUDED processed foods and sugar.
Stay on Atkins... test show over and over again below normal cholesterol, below normal heart pressure, AND no diabetes symptoms whatsoever.
Go off Atkins for TWO days... cholesterol through the roof, high blood pressure, and full-blown adult-onset diabetes.
The man was right; the sugar and grain and vegetarian lobbies can decry him and his success stories all they want, but cutting carbohydrates out of your life for those who cannot eat them without becoming instantly obese is MANADATORY for those who want to live a normal life.
I eat all the meat, cheese, and eggs I can handle, and I'll even fry my chicken coated with whole-grain (makes a HUMONGOUS difference) flour and throw a teasponful of sugar-free tomato paste on my cheese from time to time, and I will never be obese again. Unfortunately, it took me 8 times gong off it to learn the hard way I will be on it for the rest of my life or ELSE.
When I listened to the GD hospitals and nutritionists and experts, and through sheer will power and at a lot of expense, DID NOT EAT A SINGLE GRAM OF FAT FOR MORE THAN A YEAR (THANKS, OPRAH) and lost 300 lbs. THEIR way, the SECOND I ate a piece of cheese the resulting gall bladder attack PUT ME IN THE HOSPITAL and OUT IT CAME. The OLD way, with a ten inch scar, after promising larascopic surgery. PLUS the useless unused larascopic holes. Nice.
That's what happens when you don't listen to Atkins but listen to the so called GD "experts".
How about all the poor people who DIED from phen-fen? Remember that disaster? Oh yeah, they paid their SURVIVORS six-figure settlements.
What works, works. The rest, including the new moneymaking fad that they don't tell you FAILS FOR 40% of PEOPLE WHO MUTILATE THEMSELVES SURGICALLY, (GASTRIC BYPASS), DOESN'T work.
But sure makes a lot of hospitals rich.
*****
Here's some more food for thought that I've never seen in the literature; when a obese person (teetotaling like me OR otherwise) craves carbohydrates, and has to eat 2 pounds of rice to satisfy, or the equivalent of five french fried potatoes, or an entire loaf of bread, preferably with protein as well so the stuff ferments in the gut, they're not craving carbs; they're turning their bodies into stills.
Potatoes=whiskey
Bread=beer
Rice=saki
Duh. No wonder great amounts of food satisfies. And fat people get liver damage and the dark bags under their eyes that show it. EVEN WHEN THEY DON'T "DRINK".
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» Carbs make you bloat and complex
Posted by: harpy
» RE: Don't give a flying ef what all the naysayers say.. Atkins works for life when everything else fails
Posted by: paleogal
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Posted by: FDPN on Aug 17, 2007 1:23 PM
Current rating: Not yet rated [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
The reality is that anyone who wanted to eat went out and did "the gathering."
The men were probably the only hunters but the women certainly helped them chop up the kill and haul it back to camp.
You want to eat? You work. Gender doesn't matter.
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Posted by: Mewsician on Aug 17, 2007 4:16 PM
Current rating: 3 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Moreover, a musician friend I know went meat-crazy for months on end, and wound up with the most revolting chapped lips and open sores around his mouth. FINALLY went to a doc, who told him he was an idiot - that meat proteins were the culprit and that his body wasn't meant to live exclusively on meat. So beware this author's premise....it's pretty shaky.
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Posted by: aaronfetty on Aug 17, 2007 4:27 PM
Current rating: 4 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Animal foods are not poisonous, and neither are vegetables, including soy, as long as they're eaten in moderation.
Our major health problems come from eating TOO MUCH fat (of any kind, but especially saturated and polyunsaturated), TOO MANY carbs (especially refined grains and sugars) and really just TOO MUCH FOOD, especially compared to our activity levels!
If you do manual labor for a living, work on a farm, or train for sports, you can get away with eating a lot more and with making poorer choices. But when you consider how much time most modern humans spend sitting in front of computers, in their cars and on their couches, it's no wonder we have an epidemic of obesity, heart attacks, strokes and cancers.
I spent time as a teacher in the Peace Corps in a village in Africa, and the people there suffered from essentially no heart attacks, strokes or cancer. They ate small meals, ate meat once or twice a month, and worked their asses off. There were two overweight people in our village of 600!! And one of them was a shopkeeper who had access to more meat and eggs!!!
By the way, I lost 23 pounds eating like they did and have kept it off ever since--10 years later!!
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Posted by: lwbaby on Aug 17, 2007 7:55 PM
Current rating: 3 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
This is one of the most ridiculous things I've read here and there have been alot of them lately.
None of us makes it out alive. If we can get some enjoyment out of it, some of it in the way of forbidden foods, so be it. Why on earth should we spend the short time we have here stressing over what we eat? Food is pleasure and good food is even more pleasure.
Some of us will do all the right things and still die early. Bottom line: We're all gonna die.
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» RE: Oh, good grief.
Posted by: aaronfetty
» Absolutely!
Posted by: peleo_huntress
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Posted by: drricklippin on Aug 18, 2007 3:10 AM
Current rating: Not yet rated [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Finally I decided to write a parody of all the fad diet books based on former radical Jerry Rubin's "Steal This Book" concept.
I called it "Eat This Book-The Paper Diet" where you eat anything from the yellow pages to a great collection of poetry
Now that's good eating! You literally digest great information
:)
Dr. Rick Lippin
Southampton, Pa
http://medicalcrises.blogspot.com
PS- Nutrition science should be taken very seriously but, as a Doc, I believe the future lies in individualizing diets. So each AlterNet reader has their very own diet based on genetic mapping, evironment and life circumstances.-ral
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» Joseph Mercola, MD agrees with you...
Posted by: peleo_huntress
» RE: Joseph Mercola, MD agrees with you...
Posted by: drricklippin
» Turn you on..?
Posted by: peleo_huntress
Comments are closed-
Posted by: xbj on Aug 18, 2007 5:51 PM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
So you can take your religious fervor and intolerance of meat eating and shove it up your ass; you have to fall back on religiousity and faith-based intolerance because the facts have already proven you and your kind totally wrong time and time again.
I am highly tolerant; if your pancreas hasn't been destroyed by processed carbs and sugar by the age of five like most of us and you can live on a meat-free vegan or vegetarian diet, BLESS YOU. As you are truly blessed.
For the rest of us in the majority of the planet, IT DOESN'T WORK. And your evangelism won't change simple physical facts of science.
News flash; Buddha walked millions of miles, ate nothing but three cups of rice a day, and every single statue of him has him double to triple the normal weight of a human.
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» RE: buddha
Posted by: jingles
» RE: buddha
Posted by: xbj
» RE: paleo_huntress is part of the problem EVANGELISM AMONG DIET "EXPERTS"
Posted by: drricklippin
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Posted by: Klaus on Aug 18, 2007 9:33 AM
Current rating: 1 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
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» RE: oh, and one more thing................................ GROW UP YOU INTOLERANT BRAT
Posted by: xbj
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Posted by: imstephencrane on Aug 18, 2007 12:36 PM
Current rating: Not yet rated [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
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» That's only one theory...
Posted by: peleo_huntress
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Posted by: fleurdelamer on Aug 18, 2007 1:14 PM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
In "Eve's Seed", a brilliant book, the author relabels hunter-gatherers as collector-hunters because 80% of their food was collected by women, and only 20% of it was hunted. This fact sounds very plausible to me since hunting can take all day and still produce nothing.
Six years ago I read "Fit for Life" first published around 1984. Its recommendations also made sense to me. I never liked meat or chicken so I became a pesca-tarian; a fish-eating vegetarian who abstained from meat, poultry, dairy and eggs. Also, I ate ALOT of soy products, but tried to stay organic. Since 2001, my weight slowly crept up and I developed small but annoying chronic health issues. By the way, I have been a serious exerciser for 10 years, doing 5 nights a week and sometimes 6. I thought with the diet and exercise I was being so healthy and couldn't understand why I was gaining weight. Very frustrating.
Earlier this year I ran across the following site which changed my outlook completely. http://health.groups.yahoo.com/group/candidasupport/. I recommend everyone to read the articles in the files in the left-hand menu. The author has a strong and powerful message. Her focus is on nature-made fats, and organic/free-range meats and veggies.
In March I ditched all sugars, starches, and soy, and brought eggs and butter back into my diet. I easily lost my extra 10 lbs and felt great. My hair regained it's bounce and shine. My nails are long and strong. I still east fish but avoid meat and poultry because I do not like it. So, you can still get the good protein and fat without eating meat.
I have read alot about soy lately and will rarely if ever touch it again. Almost all processed foods now contain soy and/or corn by-products. Combine that with all the soy-based food items like burgers, milk, etc. and we are consuming TONS more soy than Asian people ever did or do now. They eat moderate amounts of soy and mostly in its fermented state. They do not consume soy oil or milk.
In my late 20s I could stay thin and fit with a low-fat, high-carb diet and plenty of exercise. But I now believe that to combat middle-age spread after 30, this combo will not work. One must obtain nature-made fats, and cut starches and sugars.
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Posted by: Shey on Aug 18, 2007 6:58 PM
Current rating: Not yet rated [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
As a long time low-carb dieter, I tried it all. I lost the most weight on the most extreme low carb diets, but it was not a healthy permanent way of eating.
When I became a semi-vegetarian for moral and ethical reasons, almost twenty years ago, I resigned myself to gaining weight. But I didn't. I discovered that the carbs in vegetables, potatoes and pasta are very different from the carbs in refined sugar.
My body craves a certain amount of animal protein, which I get from renit-free cheese, fish, organic milk and the occasionals organic free-range chicken dish.
Experiment, keep your food choices as natural as possible. You don't have to live on bacon and butter (what's the fun anyhow, if you can't put it on a potato?) nor do you have to live on bran muffins weighing two pounds each, dryer than the desert sands, and fruit.
I now weigh fifteen lbs. less than I did when I became a semi-vegetarian and gave up "dieting", and I still splurge on the occasional pint of ice cream or big piece of cake. All my life I've detested and avoided the concept of moderation, but feeling healthy and weighing less, never "going on a diet" & still enjoying the occasional unhealthy treat has made a believer of me.
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Posted by: Candleinheart on Aug 19, 2007 6:36 AM
Current rating: 3 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
I was O. therefore, an acid stomach requires meat, beef yes if raised organically, other meats great, fish etc. A sister was Type A. She ate breads, meats by the ton. Fluctuated between size 10 and 18 most of her life until she ate the diet required for Type A. I was eating Type A diet and needed to get back to O. Heavies at work complained of their weight. they were mostly O's eating breads, pastas, dairy little meat. Once I alerted them to no potatoes, pasta, suagar etc. They dropped weight like taking air out of a balloon. The writer I bet is an O.
We must factor in Cosmic influences. When Jupiter forms hard angle to your sun or moon in your natal pattern, you willl not lose weight! There are times for everything. Factor in emotional issues, race, environments, etc. Take MS. This is curable. Those who change their diets, and WANT to get better do. I knew 7 who had MS. None were willing to change diet and make effort. I learned then that many people like being sick for a number of reasons that are very deep. After 38 years of no doctors and taking any pills I moved late into mid-'60's and many life crisises. Weight ballooned, depression, blood pressure went up first time. 8 years have passed. Half the weight refuses to leave, blood pressure remains up despite efforts. I mention this as factors such as life transitions, age, hormonal changes, plus cosmic factors weigh in. Hey! Everyone. It's hard to be a human being! Nothing remains the same. Anything is possible. Diet has to be addressed first. Like building a house. You don't build a frame without a foundation. You can go to one eating place after another and not get one fresh veggie. Or, fresh fruit. It's a toxic world out there and too much eating out, junk foods, rushing, eating alone, even 'fresh' in some stores looks old. It's hard. But if serious, read James D'Adamo's Four Diets Four Blood Types. Great place to start. Next, read all of Kevin Trudeau's books of TV fame. Wow! He's done a SUPER job! Great eye opener. If you haven't begun any serious thinking bout food and your health you will after these books.
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» Kevin Trudeau is a CON ARTIST
Posted by: peleo_huntress
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Posted by: gretavo on Aug 21, 2007 7:33 AM
Current rating: Not yet rated [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Matt?
>cricket< >cricket
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» RE: Amen. Speaking of cavemen...
Posted by: YogiBear
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Posted by: sweet_byrd on Aug 22, 2007 5:01 PM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
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Posted by: sean000 on Aug 16, 2007 12:39 AM
Current rating: 3 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
It's great that you found a diet that worked for you, but seriously... do you really think it's different from any of the other fad diets out there? EVERY fad diet works for some people where nothing else would. That's why others jump on the band-wagon.
Losing weight isn't rocket science. Burn more calories than you consume. You will lose weight... eventually even the spare tire (though they like to hang around until the end sometimes). Good nutrition isn't as simple, but most doctors and nutritionists (as well as many healthy senior citizens) agree that the keys are variety and moderation... emphasizing fresh vegetables, fruits, whole grains, dairy, and lean meats or beans.
Your plan to exercise more like a caveman probably has more to it. I'm sure not all cavemen and cave women had the same lifestyles, but when we think of hunter/gatherers we think of people who spent a great deal of time on the move. They probably walked great distances and had moments of intense running... but most of the time they just probably walked and walked and walked unless they were attacking something or running away. Distance burns more weight than speed. Short and fast workouts burn more carbs, while more moderate (and longer) exercise burns more fat. If I remember my schooling correctly, protein and carbs convert to fuel for your muscles more quickly and easily than fat... which is why your body doesn't easily use fat for intensity.
Cavemen probably exercised throughout the day more, and exercise keeps your metabolism higher. If we spent more of our time walking, bicycling, and climbing stairs to get from place to place throughout the day; we'd probably burn more calories and have a higher metabolism than someone who sits at a desk or in a car all day and concentrates all their exercise into one hour in the gym.
Sorry...but this is one of the more ridiculous fad diets I've encountered. It's great you lost the weight, but give yourself more credit than the makeup of the diet.
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» there's more to it
Posted by: EasterBunny
» Burn more calories than you consume. You will lose weight
Posted by: cellorelio
» RE: Burn more calories than you consume. You will lose weight
Posted by: pzzp
» RE: Burn more calories than you consume. You will lose weight
Posted by: cellorelio
» RE: The reasons cavemen were so skinny...
Posted by: peleo_huntress
» A sidenote...
Posted by: peleo_huntress
» Hmm.. not the stats I have heard. less actually. But...
Posted by: JoshuaLudd
» RE: A sidenote...
Posted by: KeepsonTickn
» RE: The reasons cavemen were so skinny...
Posted by: JoshuaLudd
» RE: Uh, Joshua....
Posted by: oregoncharles
» RE: Uh, Joshua....
Posted by: JoshuaLudd
» They did store food....
Posted by: peleo_huntress
» RE: The reasons cavemen were so skinny...
Posted by: paleogal
» Absolutely! Government made diet...
Posted by: Paleo_Huntress
Comments are closed-
Posted by: KaptainSpiffy on Aug 16, 2007 2:37 AM
Current rating: 3 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
meat most likely was not the main source of calories to early man's diet.
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» RE: enjoy the hormones
Posted by: peleo_huntress
» RE: enjoy the hormones
Posted by: Scott Teresi
» RE: enjoy the hormones
Posted by: peleo_huntress
» RE: enjoy the hormones
Posted by: Scott Teresi
» RE: enjoy the hormones
Posted by: peleo_huntress
» Nasty, Brutish and Short
Posted by: Scott Teresi
» RE: Nasty, Brutish and Short
Posted by: Scott Teresi
» RE: enjoy the hormones
Posted by: oregoncharles
» RE: enjoy the hormones
Posted by: paleogal
» sucking out marrow is the phrase not "look! me teef is ground down by eatin' bones"
Posted by: KaptainSpiffy
» Modern day hunter-gatherers eat LOTS of meat and fat...
Posted by: peleo_huntress
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Posted by: douglashoyt on Aug 16, 2007 3:40 AM
Current rating: 3 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
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» Has eating trash ever made you feel good for very long?
Posted by: JoshuaLudd
» RE: Has eating trash ever made you feel good for very long?
Posted by: YogiBear
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Posted by: douglashoyt on Aug 16, 2007 3:49 AM
Current rating: 2 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
In the modern age, the benefits are: reduction of the human over population, and free food, and more time at home and not shopping.
Plus one can get all the variety of organ meats as well. For a change, one can eat vegan's and get the added nutrients of veggies.
The down side is that your prey may fight back, and the courts may send you to prison.
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» Didn't you know?
Posted by: ABetterFuture
» RE: Didn't you know?
Posted by: Mr. Heathen
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Posted by: Klaus on Aug 16, 2007 3:51 AM
Current rating: 1 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
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» RE: Huh?
Posted by: Serafim Tkachuk
» RE: Huh?
Posted by: hagwind
» RE: Huh?
Posted by: Klaus
» RE: Huh?
Posted by: plantsareneat
» RE: Huh?
Posted by: mercianomad
» RE: Huh?
Posted by: hagwind
» RE: Huh?
Posted by: KeepsonTickn
» fat vegetarian
Posted by: shellac'd
» Fat vegetarians? Oh yes.
Posted by: peleo_huntress
» Hey... Most junk food is vegetarian.
Posted by: JoshuaLudd
» LOL
Posted by: hagwind
» Twinkies
Posted by: defrag
» Legendary producer Rick Rubin is a vegan
Posted by: acidicjazzhead
» Yes, I HAVE seen a few fat vegetarians...
Posted by: olderworker
» RE: Huh?
Posted by: kamcallen
» RE: Huh?
Posted by: kelt65
» Yes, and they were all cows.
Posted by: KeepsonTickn
» RE: Huh?
Posted by: cnetto
» RE: Huh?
Posted by: Klaus
» Guilty consciences?
Posted by: peleo_huntress
» RE: Guilty consciences?
Posted by: Klaus
» RE: Guilty consciences?
Posted by: peleo_huntress
» RE: Huh?
Posted by: oregonox
» Yes I have seen fat vegetarians...
Posted by: harpy
» Why do you think they feed livestock corn?
Posted by: harpy
» Yes, Virginia, there are fat vegetarians
Posted by: wagadog
» RE: Huh?
Posted by: opeluboy
Comments are closed-
Posted by: EmilyC on Aug 16, 2007 4:00 AM
Current rating: 3 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
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» RE: Learn from a Japanese, not a caveman.
Posted by:
» RE: Learn from a Japanese, not a caveman.
Posted by: peleo_huntress
» RE: Learn from the French, too.
Posted by: Sushi
» RE: Learn from the French, too- there ARE fat French people, too!
Posted by: olderworker
» RE: Learn from a Japanese, not a caveman.
Posted by: kiel
» Japanese have evolved into their diet. We haven't
Posted by: KeepsonTickn
» Natural selection? Hardly...
Posted by: peleo_huntress
» What studies?
Posted by: KeepsonTickn
» Sure...
Posted by: peleo_huntress
» RE: Japanese have evolved into their diet. We haven't
Posted by: Iaela
» RE: Japanese have evolved into their diet. We haven't
Posted by: KeepsonTickn
» RE: Japanese have evolved into their diet. We haven't
Posted by: Iaela
» RE: Japanese have evolved into their diet. We haven't
Posted by: peleo_huntress
» RE: Learn from a Japanese, not a caveman.
Posted by: YogiBear
» Japanese people do NOT live longer than Americans
Posted by: peleo_huntress
Comments are closed-
Posted by: bravegirl68 on Aug 16, 2007 4:04 AM
Current rating: 3 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Like others have said, fad diets shouldn't be promoted. Just eat less and exercise more.
And if you want to be kinder to the earth, eat less meat and more whole grains, veggies and legumes.
It doesn't get more simpler than that. .. And I would imagine most of us here already know this.
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» RE: Sad to See This Here
Posted by: hagwind
» Too funny...
Posted by: peleo_huntress
» Eat less and exercise more doesn't really work
Posted by: harpy
Comments are closed-
Posted by: WitchyNy on Aug 16, 2007 5:12 AM
Current rating: 3 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Will that be published next?
The author is right in that we need to get back to a basic natural diet. However-
Cave MEN-lived mostly on food gathered by WOMEN. Hunting was dramatic-but gathering actually fed the tribe. Which was mostly fruit, berries, vegetables and wild grains.
WE are monkeys-that is primates...who eat little if any meat. We have very long intestines...meat eating animals have very short guts...so they can get rid of all that meat fast.
Losing weight or being skinny is not 'health'. Hawaiians and Vikings were big healthy people. Ancient Eskimos, who are often used as an example of 'natural' eating of lots of meat, normally had very short life spans. They also ate all their meat raw-to get all the vitamins and minerals. They eat more vegetables now days.
The author buys his meat at the grocery store-hardly 'natural' meat. That is beef mostly from chemical filled-grain fed drugged up- caged- domestic cows. And you can't get more unnatural than that. And beef cattle are very bad for our environment.
We need to evolve our diet to be healthy, for ourselves AND our planet. Unlike Cave men, we can choose what to eat. We need to make wise choices.
My big healthy college boys were raised vegetarian. Aside from very occasional Wild Salmon, and our home grown eggs from free range chickens, they don't eat meat or fish at all. But men seem to crave the texture and taste of meat. I suggest Boca veggie burgers and tofu hot dogs.
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» RE: NO-
Posted by: cellorelio
» Subsistence gathering provided subsistence.
Posted by: ABetterFuture
» No... wrong.
Posted by: JoshuaLudd
» Calories = leisure. Leisure = time to think. Time to think = time to create
Posted by: ABetterFuture
» RE: Calories = leisure. Leisure = time to think. Time to think = time to create
Posted by: peleo_huntress
» Likewise, I'd point out...
Posted by: ABetterFuture
» RE: Likewise, I'd point out...
Posted by: peleo_huntress
» Soy is poison...
Posted by: peleo_huntress
» RE: Soy is poison...
Posted by: JoshuaLudd
» RE: Soy is poison...
Posted by: WitchyNy
» RE: Soy is poison...
Posted by: peleo_huntress
» huntress-
Posted by: WitchyNy
» I don't understand.
Posted by: mjabele
» RE: I don't understand.
Posted by: WitchyNy
» RE: huntress-
Posted by: peleo_huntress
» RE: huntress-Get a goat.
Posted by: WitchyNy
» RE: huntress-Get a goat.
Posted by: peleo_huntress
» RE: peleo_huntress is a meat eating Nazi Neo-vore!!!!
Posted by: peleo_huntress
» There are organic pesticides...
Posted by: Paleo_Huntress
» RE: huntress-
Posted by: paleogal
» RE: Soy is poison...
Posted by: MAD
» Mostly fish and veggies..
Posted by: harpy
» RE: Soy is poison...
Posted by: owleyes
» RE: Soy is poison...
Posted by: peleo_huntress
» RE: NO-
Posted by: MAD
» to MAD
Posted by: WitchyNy
» RE: to MAD
Posted by: MAD
» RE: to MAD
Posted by: WitchyNy
» RE: NO-
Posted by: KeepsonTickn
» Keepson-
Posted by: WitchyNy
» RE: Query:
Posted by: oregoncharles
» RE: Query:Extra Males-
Posted by: WitchyNy
» RE: Keepson-
Posted by: peleo_huntress
» RE: Keepson-
Posted by: KeepsonTickn
» You are probably correct...
Posted by: peleo_huntress
» Please cite the pro-vegetarian website describing human vs carnivore vs herbivore digestive systems.
Posted by: KeepsonTickn
» RE: Please cite the pro-vegetarian website describing human vs carnivore vs herbivore digestive syst
Posted by: WitchyNy
» RE: Keepson-
Posted by: peleo_huntress
» RE: NO-
Posted by: greenkris
Comments are closed-
Posted by: cellorelio on Aug 16, 2007 5:17 AM
Current rating: 4 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
I am a vegetarian (actually, I will eat fish) and have been for ten years. That doesn't mean my lifestyle was a healthy one. Until a few years ago, I ate mainly processed carbs in the form of white wheat bread, white rice, refined oils, and packaged foods containing high-fructose corn syrup, hydrogenated oils, and artificial colors, flavors, and preservatives.
In the past three years, I've educated myself about just how deadly those fake foods are. Now I only eat whole unprocessed grains, lots of fresh fruits and veggies, organically grown when available, unpasteurized cheese when possible, lots of fermented foods like tempe, homemade sauerkraut, pasteurized plain yogurt (that I flavor with fresh fruits), and homemade sourdough bread. I've eliminated most packaged foods and only buy ones that have few ingredients. Never anything with HFCS, hydrogenated oils, or any artificial ingredients.
It's also vital to walk and/or bike daily. 30 minutes of walking at a brisk pace each day does wonders for the body. I've been at my optimum weight now for several years and am in the best health ever.
I highly recommend the following:
Fast Food Nation by Eric Schlosser
Lick the Sugar Habit by Nancy Appleton
Mad Cowboy by Howard Lyman
The Revolution Will Not Be Microwaved: by Sandor Katz
Twinkie, Deconstructed by Steve Ettlinger
Sugar Blues by William Duffy
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» RE: Cavepeople Didn't Eat Refined Carbs
Posted by: peleo_huntress
» RE: Cavepeople Didn't Eat Refined Carbs
Posted by: Saitia
» Aren't those euphemisms handy little buggers?
Posted by: hagwind
» RE: Cavepeople Didn't Eat Refined Carbs
Posted by: peleo_huntress
» RE: Cavepeople Didn't Eat Refined Carbs
Posted by: lisagimlet
» RE: Cavepeople Didn't Eat Refined Carbs
Posted by: cellorelio
Comments are closed-
Posted by: existen on Aug 16, 2007 5:37 AM
Current rating: 3 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
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» RE: and what of the social implications
Posted by: peleo_huntress
» RE: and what of the social implications
Posted by: existen
» RE: and what of the social implications
Posted by: indradawn
» huntress-Myth#1
Posted by: WitchyNy
» RE: huntress-Myth#1
Posted by: peleo_huntress
» RE: and what of the social implications
Posted by: Theodore
» Yes!
Posted by: KeepsonTickn
» RE: and what of the social implications
Posted by: jeff303
» RE: and what of the social implications
Posted by: YogiBear
Comments are closed-
Posted by: willymack on Aug 16, 2007 6:35 AM
Current rating: 4 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
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» Agree with you
Posted by: harpy
Comments are closed-
Posted by: pdxstudent on Aug 16, 2007 6:52 AM
Current rating: 2 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Pre-agricultural people lived day to day, and I am sure that was at times extremely hard work. It in no way compares to what we know understand as exercise though.
Rather than exercise like a "cave man," try actually living like one. Living a life without the constant intervention of technological comfort, either in a mechanical-strength sense or an intellectual-computational sense, is going to build character, not "the right diet" or "the right exercise regimine."
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» Don't foget the parasites! Great for weight loss!
Posted by: ABetterFuture
» So.. what is it that keeps us from getting parasites today???
Posted by: JoshuaLudd
» Not so much.
Posted by: ABetterFuture
» Which is why people who live in nature don't shit where they eat and drink. nm
Posted by: JoshuaLudd
» Hopeless romantic.
Posted by: ABetterFuture
» RE: Not so much.
Posted by: cellorelio
» RE: "cave people" most certainly didn't execise
Posted by: screwjack2000
» RE: "cave people" most certainly didn't execise
Posted by: willymack
Comments are closed-
Posted by: warpspasm on Aug 16, 2007 6:52 AM
Current rating: 4 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
The idea about eating humans sounds good. There are many fat and chewy ones in my neighborhood who would make a tasty barbecue. They would be easy to catch on their leisurely evening strolls. Not being outwardly fat does not equal being strong and fit. Having been fascinated by training and human development for over 25 years the basic message in the Paleo diet has worked wonders for me.
So far as a vegetarian diet being good for the planet this idea avoids a basic issue. The problem is that there are too many people. And when they start to die from starvation we feed them gruel and keep them alive so they keep having more kids who we can feed gruel and so on and so on. Increased food production equals increased population. It's a vicious circle.
Until the core problem of massive overpopulation is dealt with all the good intentions for, and whining about, the environment will do nothing. This hard and brutal fact is one no one wants to address. Until we can begin to understand that humans cannot operate outside the laws of biology and carrying capacity we will continue to denude the planet like a hoard of locusts.
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» There is enough food for all. Have you seen the food wasted in homes, restaurants and groceterias?
Posted by: SayBlade
» RE: Human twinkies
Posted by: Strawman
» Most think they need a grain based diet because subsidies
Posted by: harpy
» RE: Human twinkies
Posted by: YogiBear
Comments are closed-
Posted by: BeeGee on Aug 16, 2007 6:56 AM
Current rating: 3 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
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» RE: Could be your blood type...
Posted by: bbfmail
» RE: Could be your blood type...
Posted by: peleo_huntress
» RE: Could be your blood type...
Posted by: HoboHomo
» Probably NOT your blood type!
Posted by: aaronfetty
» RE: Probably NOT your blood type!
Posted by: peleo_huntress
» misrepresented science
Posted by: aaronfetty
» Imperical evidence & agendas...
Posted by: peleo_huntress
Comments are closed-
Posted by: cyrano on Aug 16, 2007 6:57 AM
Current rating: 4 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Part of the problem with lots of so-called "healthy" foods marketed today is that they are in fact ultra-processed and full of simple sugars, salt and artificial ingredients. Just because it says "healthy" on the package doesn't make it so.
As it always seems to go nowadays, we are subject more to marketing than good advice, even from the USDA (which is supposed to be on the side of the consumer).
The best lifestyle: eat a balanced diet, avoid processed food most of the time, and have a good relationship with food. Eat good stuff and enjoy what you eat.
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» Complex carbs will still store as fat
Posted by: harpy
» RE: Complex carbs will still store as fat
Posted by: KeepsonTickn
» The USDA is on the side of selling more grains
Posted by: harpy
Comments are closed-
Posted by: SteveO on Aug 16, 2007 6:59 AM
Current rating: 3 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
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» RE: Congratulations, you've discovered
Posted by: Klaus
» Actually, it's nothing like Atkins; see my re:"shallow tripe" (n/t)
Posted by: jeff303
» Yes, it is, I've done Atkins for years
Posted by: harpy
Comments are closed-
Posted by: JPHickey on Aug 16, 2007 7:01 AM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
So I cut out most carbs and sugars (including fruit), and did lose 25 lbs in two months. This was rediculous, though successful, so I added some carbs and fruit, and my weight stagnated, again.
So now I again eat berries but little other fruit. I eat vegetables that are low carb, and I continue to eliminate all corn, potatoes, wheat, dairy products, or white sugar. I also eat all the free-range chicken, turkey, raw nuts, and oilve oil that I want. I usually boil the chicken, and cool the broth to remove the fat.
So I have stumbled on to my own version of the "caveman" diet. I feel satisfied eating much less, and the pounds are coming off again. With continuous tweeking, I believe I'll easily meet my goal of getting 50 lbs (total) by Jan. 1, 2008. I also believe I can stick to it for the rest of my life!
Oh yes, I still drink a little wine now and then, but avoid beer or hard liquor.
This approach in one form or another greatly increases insulin sensitivity, and frees the body's inherent capacity to heal naturally.
A wealth of information is available on the web. For instance, Google insulin sensitivity. Dr. Robin Rosedale offers some fine insulin sensitization diets, for instance.
The above article is too sensationalized. There are many interpretations of the paleolithic diet. I have been successful without going off the deep end. And I'm able to wear clothes I haven't been able to get into for over a decade.
Another unexpected benefit is that my food cravings are gone, I feel calmer and more satisfied with life in general. Also, I do go off the diet when breaking bread with friends, as man doth not live by bread alone, but even my face looks different. Liver spots have faded, and without the "baby fat", my bone structure is more perceptible, which adds a little character.
I say figure it out for yourself! If you want to reverse the ravages of aging and avoid the need for medical treatments and lifelong need for perscribed drugs, get serious about some sort of insulin sensitization diet or other!
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» Fat isn't bad...
Posted by: peleo_huntress
» More quotes from Castelli
Posted by: aaronfetty
» I read the actual studies myself...
Posted by: peleo_huntress
» read different sources!
Posted by: aaronfetty
» I read them all & "bias"...
Posted by: peleo_huntress
Comments are closed-
Posted by: ShoShenQ on Aug 16, 2007 7:52 AM
Current rating: 4 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
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» RE: i like the idea of this article
Posted by: peleo_huntress
Comments are closed-
Posted by: vasumurti on Aug 16, 2007 8:03 AM
Current rating: 3 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Humans resemble the other primates (frugivores) and possess a set of completely herbivorous teeth. In The Human Story, edited by Marie-Louise Makris (1985), we read: "...recent studies of their teeth reveal that the Australopithecines did not eat meat as a regular part of their diet, and were mainly peaceful vegetarians, rather like chimps or gorillas. The popular image of the murderous ape is now as extinct as the Australopithecines themselves."
Zoologist Desmond Morris makes a case for vegetarianism in The Naked Ape: "It could be argued that, since our primate ancestors had to make do without a major meat component in their diets we should be able to do the same. We were driven to become flesh eaters only by environmental circumstances, and now that we have the environment under control, with elaborately cultivated crops at our disposal, we might be expected to return to our ancient primate feeding patterns."
How did agriculture arise? One particularly interesting theory is put forth by Mark Nathan Cohen in his book The Food Crisis in Prehistory. This view is startlingly simple: agriculture developed because the world was overpopulated. Relative to the existing hunter-gatherer technology, the environment was incapable of supporting the existing population.
'"It seems odd at first to think of the world as being overpopulated...when the population was only a fraction of what it is today or to think of the world as environmentally exhausted, when it was more fertile than it is now,'" observes author Keith Akers in A Vegetarian Sourcebook.
"But we must remember that the hunter-gatherer technology is extremely inefficient with respect to land resources. It is estimated that each of the Kung bushmen (a modern hunter-gatherer society) requires over 10 square kilometers of land -- more than 2,500 acres. At this rate of land use, the world could hardly have supported more than a few million hunter-gatherers."
According to one theory, primitive men were anatomically ill equipped to be full-time predators. Plant food was thus the basis of their diet, and meat was eaten infrequently. Hunting with primitive weapons--bones, sticks, and spears--is far more difficult than most people realize. Even throwing a rock with accuracy demands great practice and skill. If this theory is correct, primitive man's time was spent mostly gathering and foraging for plant foods.
A study of the Bush People of the Kalahari in Africa found that, even during a serious drought, the most important source of food came from vegetables. Four out of eleven males never went hunting. The others killed 18 animals in eight days. Their chances of obtaining meat on any day was about 25 percent.
On the other hand, the women always returned from their gathering expeditions with food; a 100 percent success rate. The entire tribe was able to comfortably feed itself if each member contributed 15 hours of work per week--even better than our own society's achievement.
"It seems...the real heroes of our Stone Age period were the women, not the men," observes British author Peter Cox in his 1986 book, Why You Don't Need Meat: "...our ancestors ate much more plant food than is popularly believed."
On a vegetarian diet, the world could easily support a population several times its present size. The world's cattle alone consume enough to feed over 8.7 billion humans.
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» I am a Homosapien, last I checked...
Posted by: indradawn
» indradawn
Posted by: WitchyNy
» RE: indradawn
Posted by: indradawn
» RE: The Vegetarian Alternative (?)
Posted by: oregoncharles
» RE: The Vegetarian Alternative
Posted by: Klaus
» The Worst Mistake in the History of the Human Race- Agriculture
Posted by: peleo_huntress
» Thank You For The Vegetarian Alternative
Posted by: wagadog
» RE: Thank You For The Vegetarian Alternative
Posted by: peleo_huntress
Comments are closed-
Posted by: InsertNameHere on Aug 16, 2007 8:05 AM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
This was in the draft report. The Sugar Association Inc., of course, was not amused. They exerted enough pressure to have the recommendation down played or removed from the final report. I believe also that they had the Doctor heading the report discredited and removed. I am not sure now of the exact details, but I am sure you can still get the draft report from the WHO website.
There was an excellent documentary on the sugar industry which covered this story called Big Sugar .
This documentary also details the daily life of sugar plantation workers in the Dominican Republic, I saw it some time ago so I could be mistaken. These poor bastards have a pretty tough time, typical third world serfdom stuff.
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» RE: WHO Report
Posted by: indradawn
Comments are closed-
Posted by: Conservasaurus on Aug 16, 2007 8:09 AM
Current rating: 4 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
The authors diet is basically one that minimizes sugar intake which will turn to fat in favor of high protien diet..
I wouldn't be so concerned about high cholesterol levels with that diet as I'd be more concerned about impact on the kidneys.. he should be drinking ALOT of water - at least half his body weight in ounces per day!
Cutting out cardio is a mistake as well.. I'm sure Cavemen chased some of their prey around..or cave women at the least! But the benefits of cardio on a healthy heart cannot be denied.
Probably one of the least benefical routines one can do is pure weight lifting..how many people lay on a bench when they pick something up! There are many ways to approach strength training but most now focus on functional strength.
How are you going to pick up that dinosaur you just killed (poor fellow) and drag him back to the cave... straight perfectly supported weight lifting isnt going to do that - kettle bells, stability balls combined with strength training, band training etc is a much better way to build that lean look and functional strtength cave men and women so love!
Again - Great article Alternet. I love the health and wellness issues!
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Posted by: SayBlade on Aug 16, 2007 8:15 AM
Current rating: 3 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
That aside, the metabolism of people who live in colder climates is different than those in warmer and tropical climates. Their bodies are more adapted to higher fats and meats from fish, seal, caribou, muskox and bear eaten fresh and raw which are expended in vigorous physical activity and keeping warm.
In warmer climates meat, particularly red meat, is not readily available or affordable, especially for those with lower incomes. So, these people are mostly vegetarian with high intake of grains, vegetables, nuts and fruit and are leaner and healthier, too.
Others who are in temperate climates tend to have busier, more stressful lifestyles (and are wealthier) that depend heavily on prepared and refined foods since there is little time to prepare a meal from scratch. They have more problems with heart disease, diabetes and myriad other ailments not experienced by those in more extreme climates.
So, even if this diet regimen worked for one person one cannot necessarily expect it to work for others.
Case in point, I went vegetarian a few years ago avoiding prepared and refined foods as much as possible, lost weight without trying, eat as much as I want and still maintain my weight. But, that's not the formula for everyone. Other factors including lifestyle, exercise, stress levels have a huge impact on maintaining weight. If you're stuck behind a desk all day, Shreeve's diet could kill you.
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» Stuck behind a desk...
Posted by: peleo_huntress
» RE: Stuck behind a desk... I said 'could" not "would." ...
Posted by: SayBlade
» Very thankful...
Posted by: peleo_huntress
Comments are closed-
Posted by: peleo_huntress on Aug 16, 2007 8:30 AM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Nasty, Brutish and Short?
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» What Fat???
Posted by: dnaylor
» RE: What Fat???
Posted by: kiel
» RE: What Fat???
Posted by: peleo_huntress
» RE: What Fat???
Posted by: trajan321
» RE: What Fat???
Posted by: peleo_huntress
Comments are closed-
Posted by: solrev on Aug 16, 2007 8:31 AM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
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Posted by: pzzp on Aug 16, 2007 9:05 AM
Current rating: Not yet rated [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
I have a desk job, I don't exercise but stay active with yard work, office stairs, nothing strenuous. I eat whatever I want, whenever I want it, and I have weighed the same for the last 30 years.
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» RE: M E T A B O L I S M ! ! !
Posted by: indradawn
» RE: M E T A B O L I S M ! ! !
Posted by: pzzp
Comments are closed-
Posted by: pocomoco on Aug 16, 2007 9:15 AM
Current rating: 4 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
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Posted by: ChittoGreen on Aug 16, 2007 9:43 AM
Current rating: Not yet rated [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Eating meat leaves an acid residue in the body and viruses, bacteria, yeast, and cancer love acid environments.
The meat the cavemen ate was lean, extremely lean for the most part, and the animals ate lots of different types of grasses.
The meat you're eating is grain fed and nitrate laden, so you may experience a short term benefit, but in the long run, you're at high risk for many diseases.
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» RE: A little knowledge.....
Posted by: indradawn
Comments are closed-
Posted by: indradawn on Aug 16, 2007 9:43 AM
Current rating: 4 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
People love to call the Atkins diet a "fad," though no special purchases were required. Some Atkins products were made available to help people conquer their sweet tooth or love of pasta, but no Atkins products were required to do the diet. No special pills, nothing. Those same people who call these "diets" fads never read the studies that prove Dr. Atkins and the author of this article correct. And correct he is. A hunter-gatherer diet makes for an incredible energy level, and no nagging hunger or cravings.
Don't play into the industry's hands. Eat meats and healthy green vegetables produced by your local farmer. Don't be afraid of fats in moderation. Avoid sugar at all costs--cancer cells feed on glucose.
Sorry vegetarians. You are a part of the food chain whether you like it or not. You avoid meats, rich sources of essential proteins, at your own peril.
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» RE: Food industry conspiracy
Posted by: phatkhat
» RE: Food industry conspiracy
Posted by: dlueth
» RE: Food industry conspiracy
Posted by: indradawn
» Possible but extremely difficult...
Posted by: peleo_huntress
» plants have all essential proteins
Posted by: aaronfetty
» Complete proteins? And?
Posted by: peleo_huntress
» RE: Food industry conspiracy
Posted by: Klaus
Comments are closed-
Posted by: scheherezade on Aug 16, 2007 10:21 AM
Current rating: Not yet rated [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
It might not be short, but it sounds pretty poor, nasty, brutish, and probably rather solitary...
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» RE: Life without butter?
Posted by: phatkhat
» RE: Life without butter?
Posted by: YogiBear
» RE: Life without butter?
Posted by: Benjaminsjw
» Fermentation and leptin resistence...
Posted by: peleo_huntress
» RE: Life without butter?
Posted by: peleo_huntress
Comments are closed-
Posted by: Gravitas on Aug 16, 2007 10:32 AM
Current rating: 1 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
"Weight obsession is a social disease. If we cared more about CO2 than BMI there might still be time."
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» RE: The New Talisman
Posted by: Mamarianne
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Posted by: screwjack2000 on Aug 16, 2007 10:49 AM
Current rating: 3 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
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» Why? Many of us just oppose industrialized meat. nm
Posted by: JoshuaLudd
Comments are closed-
Posted by: mandiwrite on Aug 16, 2007 11:01 AM
Current rating: 4 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
As for the poster who said something ridiculous about farmers kicking their asses, you should read up on how the agri-transition took place. It took ages, without much in the way of identifiable aggression between gatherers and farmers - in fact, in some places, there is evidence that farmers gave up and went back to their previous lifestyle. Wise choice, if you ask me: gatherers were MUCH healthier, you can see that in their height, the health of their bones and their gleaming, strong teeth. But puh-lease, it wasn't daily consumption of whacks of meat that made them that way - meat for them, as it is for modern Mediterranean types, was a treat, a condiment, to be dried and added to stews, for example. Not a huge step from there to vegetarianism - and this was the way we really evolved to eat. You'd all be better off if you ate mostly fruit and veg, with a little meat or fish thrown in occasionally. (Thinks: isn't this rather like the Japanese diet, after all?)
This writer has an epiphany about meat and trots off to buy a haul that would make a Khoi-San's eyes pop out. Ever heard of moderation, chaps?
Finally, the gatherers lived, as so many researcher have shown, the original, and true, Affluent Life. A couple of hours of 'work' each day; no need to sweat it out in the gym, because your leisure time was spent dancing, playing, polishing ostrich eggs into beads, acting out stories, cuddling babies, and indulging in the occasional trance-dance... and very little in the way of disease/parasites because you weren't crammed up next to each other in stinking dirty cities. Sigh...
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Posted by: dlueth on Aug 16, 2007 11:33 AM
Current rating: 3 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
1) As any archaeologist will tell you, most of the "Stone Age cavemen" ate largely vegetarian diets. Meat was a supplement, not a staple. Get your facts straight about what people ate in the "Stone Age" before you claim you're eating a "Stone Age" diet.
2) "Our cave ancestors....lived as long as they do today." You've got to be kidding. This is the sort of ridiculous claim that happens when you rely on one suspect source, Art De Vany, instead of actually checking the archaeological literature for yourself.
3) Of course you lose weight when you eat mostly meat. That's because protein is more difficult to digest than carbohydrates so most of it goes straight through your system.
4) Turning it into a choice between heavily processed, modern foods and a meat-heavy diet is a ridiculous false dichotomy. Yes, much of what you find in the grocery store is recently added to our diet, heavily refined, and bad for your health. So are large slabs of meat. People have been eating fruits, vegetables, legumes, and grains for hundreds of thousands of years at least, and it is both possible and quite easy to eat such a diet. Where does that fit on your "meat vs. refined foods" dichotomy?
5) Raisins were "staple snack foods for the Stone Age eater"? As was "a selection of nuts -- brazils, pecans, hazels, almonds and walnuts"? Wow, they got around. A cheap shot, I know, but it still needs pointing out that the author is creating a single, stereotypical "Stone Age eater" who ate whatever the author claims "he" (no cavewomen in the Stone Age, apparently) ate. Apparently there was no cultural or dietic differentiation back then--all "Stone Age eaters" ate the same diet as our author. Trust Mr. Shreeve, he says so himself.
6) Shreeve cites a "professor in the health and exercise department" as an expert on comparative genetics. This same professor, Loren Cordain, apparently claims that the agricultural revolution caused us to get "fatter and shorter." Again, please do some research before making such ridiculous claims. Especially since Cordain then conflates "Neolithic, industrial-era and modern-era foods" as though they were interchangeable.
7) "Weightlifting workouts that mimicked the activities of ancient hunter-gatherers"? You're kidding, right?
One wonders about what "conventional 'wisdom ' about nutrition" Jimmy Lee Shreeve is talking about.
I have to say this article is certainly is amazing. It's propaganda worthy of any advertising firm. It's very effective to repeat "eating like a caveman" over and over while discussing a meat-heavy diet. Doing so connects the two in the mind of the reader, setting up a framework in which eating meat becomes a natural state experienced by "our ancient ancestors" and which we would do well, the author alleges, to return to. The problem is, this version of the ancient past is one created by the author and his few, highly questionable sources, with no basis in archaeological reality.
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» RE: shallow tripe
Posted by: screwjack2000
» RE: shallow tripe
Posted by: dlueth
» RE: shallow tripe
Posted by: peleo_huntress
» On the one hand...
Posted by: mjabele
» RE: shallow tripe
Posted by: jeff303
» RE: shallow tripe
Posted by: dlueth
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Posted by: Liger on Aug 16, 2007 11:42 AM
Current rating: 2 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
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» RE: If God didn't want us to eat animals...
Posted by: screwjack2000
» If God didn't want us to eat one another then war would not have been invented by humans ...
Posted by: SayBlade
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Posted by: allusiv on Aug 16, 2007 12:01 PM
Current rating: 1 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
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» How about READING some REAL RESEARCH?
Posted by: indradawn
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Posted by: thoughtcriminal on Aug 16, 2007 12:18 PM
Current rating: 3 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Ancient Human Hair May Be Key To Understanding Diet Of Ancient Civilizations, ScienceDaily
"Macko has recently analyzed hair clippings from the Neolithic Ice Man of the Oetztaler Alps; the Coptics of Egypt; the Late Middle Kingdom mummies of Egypt; and the Chinchorro mummies of Chile.
He has found that the Ice Man -- thought by some to be a hunter -- was probably a very strict vegetarian at the time of his death. "There's little indication of meat consumption," Macko says. The Coptics of Egypt, like the Chinchorro of Chile, ate a wide variety of vegetables, grains, meats, seafood and dairy products, "sort of like the modern-day supermarket diet," Macko says. The Late Middle Kingdom Egyptians, on the other hand, appear to have eaten a somewhat restricted diet with more animal products. "It seems that the upper-class of the time, perhaps for some sociological reason, had a much less diverse diet than was available to them," Macko says."
Some Alternet editor deserves a medal for 'worst article of the week' on this stinker.
As many have pointed out, this is the high-protein "Atkins diet" which does cause you to lose weight, short-term, but than you rapidly regain it.
The Atkins diet is based on loading your system with protein and limiting carbohydrates. This is not such a bad idea if your main source of carbohydrates is high-fructose corn syrup, like it is for most Americans.
When you eat, you burn your food to CO2 - but protein is loaded down with nitrogen, so to eat protein your body has to excrete a lot of cellular water. The Atkin's diet is the water-loss diet!
Only in America could this nonsense be sold to a high-fructose corn syrup-fattened population.
So, what is a healthy diet? Your body needs carbohydrates, protein, fats and vitamins and minerals in order to maintain itself - and it also needs physical exercise (your immune system is passive, and it needs muscular action to pump the lymph around - which is why obesity leads to secondary medical problems).
Alternet pimps for the Atkins diet! Tut, tut, tut...
Of course, if you really want to lose weight, you can always go on the American fallback, The Methamphetamine Diet - also known as the Ritalin Diet, or the Adderall Diet. How many 'dieters' turn to crystal meth when their Ritalin runs out? No, really, doctor, I suffer from adult ADD...
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» RE: Well, it's been said already, but here are the details:
Posted by: indradawn
» Agreed...
Posted by: peleo_huntress
» did you not read the article about the hair?
Posted by: thoughtcriminal
» I did...
Posted by: peleo_huntress
» Ever hear of wild rice? (PS you're possibly right about the iceman!)
Posted by: thoughtcriminal
» RE: ver hear of wild rice? (PS you're possibly right about the iceman!)
Posted by: peleo_huntress
» RE: Well, it's been said already, but here are the details:
Posted by: jeff303
» RE: Well, it's been said already, but here are the details:
Posted by: paleogal
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Posted by: lordzombie on Aug 16, 2007 12:21 PM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
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Posted by: felixcommi on Aug 16, 2007 12:19 PM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
I have witnessed many people I know get into incredible shape just eating meat. The results are phenomenally quick. I am a vegetarian who barely eats any dairy and I'm a total skron but I think any diet you do will work if you're disciplined. The all meat diet, particularly the element of no sugar, make sit so easy to be thin.
This diet liekly isn't incredibly dangerous if you are disciplined and stick to lean meats. All the crap in meat is on vegetables and fruits too. Farmers bathe/inject everything they produce in chemicals. (except organic which aint always feasible for working class folk --- so lets not get high and mighty about it)
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Posted by: dnaylor on Aug 16, 2007 12:31 PM
Current rating: 1 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
There is one small good point here. Omega 3's and 6's are out of balence in our diet these days. By returning to something like what people actually ate centuries ago, this is improved (but not by this fantasy cavemen hunted and barbequed all the time BS).
Alternet really needs to get someone who actually knows something about health. This is a very, very laughable article. It is the equivalent of we invaded Iraq because of weapons of mass destruction. Actually, it is far worse. Fortunutely, the readers mostly know better.
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» RE: Get someone who actually knows?
Posted by: henderson
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Posted by: owleyes on Aug 16, 2007 1:00 PM
Current rating: Not yet rated [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
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Posted by: bcgirl125 on Aug 16, 2007 1:45 PM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
The archeological record shows that when humans switched from a hunter-gatherer lifestyle to grain-based agriculture, the result was a decrease in stature, an increase in dental disease and bone abnormalities, and a shorter lifespan.
Probably humans adopted a grain-based diet because of increasing scarcity of game. Grain based diets allow an increased number of humans to survive, though definitely not thrive, in the same amount of territory. It's not our natural diet, and our bodies don't cope well with it.
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» humans have evolved in the past 10,000 years to deal with grains - but not with PCBs
Posted by: thoughtcriminal
» We have NOT evolved...
Posted by: peleo_huntress
» RE: We have NOT evolved...
Posted by: shanaza
» RE: We have NOT evolved...
Posted by: peleo_huntress
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Posted by: Moira61 on Aug 16, 2007 3:07 PM
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Posted by: sphoenix on Aug 16, 2007 5:51 PM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Title: Nourishing Traditions
I have been working with this book for about 6 months and working on personal diet issues for 20 years. This book may lead some of you in the right direction and give you the ability to sensibly balance your diet.
Let's face it ...people won't agree on a proper diet because there is simply too much misinformation out there and the constant beating of the corporate drummers drowns out the truths.
The only way I've found to discover a diet that is right for me is to do the work...study, try things, research, study, try things....
I have found what is right for me...good luck to the rest of you.
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» She is a cofounder of westonaprice.come...
Posted by: peleo_huntress
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Posted by: cnetto on Aug 16, 2007 7:09 PM
Current rating: 4 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
yah it must have been the grains and beans that were really causing all that weight to be added, and are probably the cause of so many health problems?????
how do whole grains get mixed in with processed foods and "sugar desserts"????
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» RE: rocket science???
Posted by: paleogal
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Posted by: dgpdx on Aug 16, 2007 7:48 PM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
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Posted by: vasumurti on Aug 16, 2007 10:04 PM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
The reality? As part of a secular moral philosophy, ethical vegetarianism and purchasing only cruelty-free products are comparable to economic boycotting -- a political tactic used by liberals and conservatives alike.
In The Case for Animal Riqhts, Dr. Tom Regan observes: "The rights view is not antagonistic to business, free enterprise, the market mechanism, and the like. What the rights view is antagonistic to is the view that consumers owe it to any business to purchase that business's goods or services. The animal industry is no exception."
According to Dr. Regan: "The rights view's denunciation of standard toxicity tests on animals is not antibusiness. It does not deny any manufacturer the liberty to introduce any new product into the marketplace, to compete with the others already there, and to sink or swim in the waters of free enterprise.
"All that the rights view denies is that the toxicity of any new product may be pretested on animals in ways harmful to them. Nonanimal alternatives are not ruled out by the rights view. On the contrary, their development should be encouraged, both on the grounds of the public interest and because of the legitimate legal interests of the manufacturers.
"Nor is the rights view antiscientific," concludes Dr. Regan. "It places the scientific challenge before pharmacologists and related scientists: find scientifically valid ways that serve the public interest without violating individual rights."
Abolitionists are almost always accused of being anti-capitalist by the very industries they attack. James Boswell, an 18th century pro-slavery writer, wrote:
"...the anti-slavery crusade...the ranting of a handful of moralistic bigots, (which attempted)...to abolish so very important and necessary a branch of commercial interest, must have been crushed at once had not the insignificance of the zealots who vainly took the lead in it, made the vast body of planters, merchants and others, whose immense properties were involved in the trade...suppose that there would be no danger."
Anti-abolitionists claimed that the end of human slavery would bring with it the collapse of the economic structure of the Southern United States. In his book, The Status of Animals in the Christian Religion, C.W. Hume noted:
"The major cruelties practiced on animals in civilized countries today arise out of commercial exploitation, and the fear of losing profits is the chief obstacle to reform."
"When I listen to Limbaugh, as I often do," wrote Molly Ivins back in the '90s, "I find he consistently targets dead people, little girls, the homeless, and animals -- none of whom are in a particularly good position to respond. It is the consistency of his selection of helpless targets that I find so appalling.
"On his TV show in 1993, he put up a picture of Socks, the White House cat, and said: ‘Did you know there's a White House dog?’ And then he put up a picture of Chelsea Clinton, who was 13 years old and as far as I know had never done any harm to anyone...
"I also think he has a somewhat cult-like effect on his followers. They listen to him for three and a half hours a day on radio and television. I am in a position to assure you that David Koresh did not talk to the Branch Davidians that much. But that is precisely what cult leaders do: They talk to their followers hour after hour after hour."
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» I would be happy to destroy Capitalism-
Posted by: WitchyNy
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Posted by: EKSwitaj on Aug 16, 2007 11:37 PM
Current rating: Not yet rated [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
On top of that, I'm not contributing to the cruel mistreatment of animals on factory farms, and I'm massively reducing my carbon footprint (see http://www-news.uchicago.edu/releases/06/060413.diet.shtml). Sure I care about my waistline, but there are other ethical issues at stake here.
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» RE: Losing Weight Isn't All that Matters
Posted by: Klaus
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Posted by: masumane on Aug 17, 2007 2:45 AM
Current rating: Not yet rated [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Try to ride a bicycle for more than two (2) hours 6 days a week. You just cannot eat more than you consume. Cycling consumes, for a large man, more than 1000 kcal per hour. Two hours, 6 days a week, is then enough for losing 2 kg (4 pounds).
Simple, trivial. It is not about carbs, or fat, or proteins, or anything. It is about exercise.
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» LMAO
Posted by: peleo_huntress
» Heavy exercise can't be kept up long term
Posted by: harpy
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Posted by: FDPN on Aug 17, 2007 3:47 AM
Current rating: Not yet rated [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
How much fruit does this diet include exactly? How many grams of carbs per day? What are your macronutrient ratios? How many calories do you consume in a day? This isn't much of a diet at all so much as it is a random list of foods from the Atkin's program.
You do know that fruit has sugar in it right? If you eat enough fruit in a day you may as well be downing Coke's and eating cream pies (but you get some nutrients that aren't in Coke).
There is no reason NOT to eat vegetables on the Atkins diet because they have next to no calories or carbs but contain important nutrients and vitamins. I lost tons of weight on an Atkins variant and I ate plenty of veggies.
Anyway, welcome to 1999 when Atkins was a huge craze.
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» Fruit is like soda and cream pies?! In whose reality?
Posted by: peleo_huntress
» Atkins does include fruit
Posted by: harpy
» And Atkins requires green veggies
Posted by: harpy
» Potatoes are a vegetable
Posted by: FDPN
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Posted by: eksommer on Aug 17, 2007 5:47 AM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
I admire the author's dedication and focus, and I agree that our modern diet is laced with poisons and way too carb heavy, but there is a middle road.
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» RE: Nourishng Traditions
Posted by: peleo_huntress
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Posted by: jingles on Aug 17, 2007 7:32 AM
Current rating: Not yet rated [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Did the author's weight training involve squatting and bending over a lot while being constantly alert for predators? Did this make the author happy?
Meat is way grody and it is harder to clean the dishes meat is on.
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» Seriously?
Posted by: peleo_huntress
» Seriously
Posted by: jingles
» RE: Seriously
Posted by: peleo_huntress
» RE: Seriously
Posted by: jingles
» Euphemisms...
Posted by: peleo_huntress
» RE: uphemisms...
Posted by: jingles
» High Horse (1)...
Posted by: Paleo_Huntress
» RE: High Horse (1)...
Posted by: jingles
» Stronger...
Posted by: peleo_huntress
» RE: Stronger...
Posted by: jingles
» High Horse (2)...
Posted by: Paleo_Huntress
» RE: High Horse (2)...
Posted by: jingles
» RE: High Horse (2)...
Posted by: peleo_huntress
» RE: High Horse (2)...
Posted by: jingles
Comments are closed-
Posted by: xbj on Aug 17, 2007 12:42 PM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
This is a person who gained 25 lbs. in 10 DAYS on a so-called "healthy" vegetarian diet, which EXCLUDED processed foods and sugar.
Stay on Atkins... test show over and over again below normal cholesterol, below normal heart pressure, AND no diabetes symptoms whatsoever.
Go off Atkins for TWO days... cholesterol through the roof, high blood pressure, and full-blown adult-onset diabetes.
The man was right; the sugar and grain and vegetarian lobbies can decry him and his success stories all they want, but cutting carbohydrates out of your life for those who cannot eat them without becoming instantly obese is MANADATORY for those who want to live a normal life.
I eat all the meat, cheese, and eggs I can handle, and I'll even fry my chicken coated with whole-grain (makes a HUMONGOUS difference) flour and throw a teasponful of sugar-free tomato paste on my cheese from time to time, and I will never be obese again. Unfortunately, it took me 8 times gong off it to learn the hard way I will be on it for the rest of my life or ELSE.
When I listened to the GD hospitals and nutritionists and experts, and through sheer will power and at a lot of expense, DID NOT EAT A SINGLE GRAM OF FAT FOR MORE THAN A YEAR (THANKS, OPRAH) and lost 300 lbs. THEIR way, the SECOND I ate a piece of cheese the resulting gall bladder attack PUT ME IN THE HOSPITAL and OUT IT CAME. The OLD way, with a ten inch scar, after promising larascopic surgery. PLUS the useless unused larascopic holes. Nice.
That's what happens when you don't listen to Atkins but listen to the so called GD "experts".
How about all the poor people who DIED from phen-fen? Remember that disaster? Oh yeah, they paid their SURVIVORS six-figure settlements.
What works, works. The rest, including the new moneymaking fad that they don't tell you FAILS FOR 40% of PEOPLE WHO MUTILATE THEMSELVES SURGICALLY, (GASTRIC BYPASS), DOESN'T work.
But sure makes a lot of hospitals rich.
*****
Here's some more food for thought that I've never seen in the literature; when a obese person (teetotaling like me OR otherwise) craves carbohydrates, and has to eat 2 pounds of rice to satisfy, or the equivalent of five french fried potatoes, or an entire loaf of bread, preferably with protein as well so the stuff ferments in the gut, they're not craving carbs; they're turning their bodies into stills.
Potatoes=whiskey
Bread=beer
Rice=saki
Duh. No wonder great amounts of food satisfies. And fat people get liver damage and the dark bags under their eyes that show it. EVEN WHEN THEY DON'T "DRINK".
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» Carbs make you bloat and complex
Posted by: harpy
» RE: Don't give a flying ef what all the naysayers say.. Atkins works for life when everything else fails
Posted by: paleogal
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Posted by: FDPN on Aug 17, 2007 1:23 PM
Current rating: Not yet rated [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
The reality is that anyone who wanted to eat went out and did "the gathering."
The men were probably the only hunters but the women certainly helped them chop up the kill and haul it back to camp.
You want to eat? You work. Gender doesn't matter.
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Posted by: Mewsician on Aug 17, 2007 4:16 PM
Current rating: 3 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Moreover, a musician friend I know went meat-crazy for months on end, and wound up with the most revolting chapped lips and open sores around his mouth. FINALLY went to a doc, who told him he was an idiot - that meat proteins were the culprit and that his body wasn't meant to live exclusively on meat. So beware this author's premise....it's pretty shaky.
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Posted by: aaronfetty on Aug 17, 2007 4:27 PM
Current rating: 4 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Animal foods are not poisonous, and neither are vegetables, including soy, as long as they're eaten in moderation.
Our major health problems come from eating TOO MUCH fat (of any kind, but especially saturated and polyunsaturated), TOO MANY carbs (especially refined grains and sugars) and really just TOO MUCH FOOD, especially compared to our activity levels!
If you do manual labor for a living, work on a farm, or train for sports, you can get away with eating a lot more and with making poorer choices. But when you consider how much time most modern humans spend sitting in front of computers, in their cars and on their couches, it's no wonder we have an epidemic of obesity, heart attacks, strokes and cancers.
I spent time as a teacher in the Peace Corps in a village in Africa, and the people there suffered from essentially no heart attacks, strokes or cancer. They ate small meals, ate meat once or twice a month, and worked their asses off. There were two overweight people in our village of 600!! And one of them was a shopkeeper who had access to more meat and eggs!!!
By the way, I lost 23 pounds eating like they did and have kept it off ever since--10 years later!!
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Posted by: lwbaby on Aug 17, 2007 7:55 PM
Current rating: 3 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
This is one of the most ridiculous things I've read here and there have been alot of them lately.
None of us makes it out alive. If we can get some enjoyment out of it, some of it in the way of forbidden foods, so be it. Why on earth should we spend the short time we have here stressing over what we eat? Food is pleasure and good food is even more pleasure.
Some of us will do all the right things and still die early. Bottom line: We're all gonna die.
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» RE: Oh, good grief.
Posted by: aaronfetty
» Absolutely!
Posted by: peleo_huntress
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Posted by: drricklippin on Aug 18, 2007 3:10 AM
Current rating: Not yet rated [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Finally I decided to write a parody of all the fad diet books based on former radical Jerry Rubin's "Steal This Book" concept.
I called it "Eat This Book-The Paper Diet" where you eat anything from the yellow pages to a great collection of poetry
Now that's good eating! You literally digest great information
:)
Dr. Rick Lippin
Southampton, Pa
http://medicalcrises.blogspot.com
PS- Nutrition science should be taken very seriously but, as a Doc, I believe the future lies in individualizing diets. So each AlterNet reader has their very own diet based on genetic mapping, evironment and life circumstances.-ral
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» Joseph Mercola, MD agrees with you...
Posted by: peleo_huntress
» RE: Joseph Mercola, MD agrees with you...
Posted by: drricklippin
» Turn you on..?
Posted by: peleo_huntress
Comments are closed-
Posted by: xbj on Aug 18, 2007 5:51 PM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
So you can take your religious fervor and intolerance of meat eating and shove it up your ass; you have to fall back on religiousity and faith-based intolerance because the facts have already proven you and your kind totally wrong time and time again.
I am highly tolerant; if your pancreas hasn't been destroyed by processed carbs and sugar by the age of five like most of us and you can live on a meat-free vegan or vegetarian diet, BLESS YOU. As you are truly blessed.
For the rest of us in the majority of the planet, IT DOESN'T WORK. And your evangelism won't change simple physical facts of science.
News flash; Buddha walked millions of miles, ate nothing but three cups of rice a day, and every single statue of him has him double to triple the normal weight of a human.
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» RE: buddha
Posted by: jingles
» RE: buddha
Posted by: xbj
» RE: paleo_huntress is part of the problem EVANGELISM AMONG DIET "EXPERTS"
Posted by: drricklippin
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Posted by: Klaus on Aug 18, 2007 9:33 AM
Current rating: 1 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
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» RE: oh, and one more thing................................ GROW UP YOU INTOLERANT BRAT
Posted by: xbj
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Posted by: imstephencrane on Aug 18, 2007 12:36 PM
Current rating: Not yet rated [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
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» That's only one theory...
Posted by: peleo_huntress
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Posted by: fleurdelamer on Aug 18, 2007 1:14 PM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
In "Eve's Seed", a brilliant book, the author relabels hunter-gatherers as collector-hunters because 80% of their food was collected by women, and only 20% of it was hunted. This fact sounds very plausible to me since hunting can take all day and still produce nothing.
Six years ago I read "Fit for Life" first published around 1984. Its recommendations also made sense to me. I never liked meat or chicken so I became a pesca-tarian; a fish-eating vegetarian who abstained from meat, poultry, dairy and eggs. Also, I ate ALOT of soy products, but tried to stay organic. Since 2001, my weight slowly crept up and I developed small but annoying chronic health issues. By the way, I have been a serious exerciser for 10 years, doing 5 nights a week and sometimes 6. I thought with the diet and exercise I was being so healthy and couldn't understand why I was gaining weight. Very frustrating.
Earlier this year I ran across the following site which changed my outlook completely. http://health.groups.yahoo.com/group/candidasupport/. I recommend everyone to read the articles in the files in the left-hand menu. The author has a strong and powerful message. Her focus is on nature-made fats, and organic/free-range meats and veggies.
In March I ditched all sugars, starches, and soy, and brought eggs and butter back into my diet. I easily lost my extra 10 lbs and felt great. My hair regained it's bounce and shine. My nails are long and strong. I still east fish but avoid meat and poultry because I do not like it. So, you can still get the good protein and fat without eating meat.
I have read alot about soy lately and will rarely if ever touch it again. Almost all processed foods now contain soy and/or corn by-products. Combine that with all the soy-based food items like burgers, milk, etc. and we are consuming TONS more soy than Asian people ever did or do now. They eat moderate amounts of soy and mostly in its fermented state. They do not consume soy oil or milk.
In my late 20s I could stay thin and fit with a low-fat, high-carb diet and plenty of exercise. But I now believe that to combat middle-age spread after 30, this combo will not work. One must obtain nature-made fats, and cut starches and sugars.
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Posted by: Shey on Aug 18, 2007 6:58 PM
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As a long time low-carb dieter, I tried it all. I lost the most weight on the most extreme low carb diets, but it was not a healthy permanent way of eating.
When I became a semi-vegetarian for moral and ethical reasons, almost twenty years ago, I resigned myself to gaining weight. But I didn't. I discovered that the carbs in vegetables, potatoes and pasta are very different from the carbs in refined sugar.
My body craves a certain amount of animal protein, which I get from renit-free cheese, fish, organic milk and the occasionals organic free-range chicken dish.
Experiment, keep your food choices as natural as possible. You don't have to live on bacon and butter (what's the fun anyhow, if you can't put it on a potato?) nor do you have to live on bran muffins weighing two pounds each, dryer than the desert sands, and fruit.
I now weigh fifteen lbs. less than I did when I became a semi-vegetarian and gave up "dieting", and I still splurge on the occasional pint of ice cream or big piece of cake. All my life I've detested and avoided the concept of moderation, but feeling healthy and weighing less, never "going on a diet" & still enjoying the occasional unhealthy treat has made a believer of me.
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Posted by: Candleinheart on Aug 19, 2007 6:36 AM
Current rating: 3 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
I was O. therefore, an acid stomach requires meat, beef yes if raised organically, other meats great, fish etc. A sister was Type A. She ate breads, meats by the ton. Fluctuated between size 10 and 18 most of her life until she ate the diet required for Type A. I was eating Type A diet and needed to get back to O. Heavies at work complained of their weight. they were mostly O's eating breads, pastas, dairy little meat. Once I alerted them to no potatoes, pasta, suagar etc. They dropped weight like taking air out of a balloon. The writer I bet is an O.
We must factor in Cosmic influences. When Jupiter forms hard angle to your sun or moon in your natal pattern, you willl not lose weight! There are times for everything. Factor in emotional issues, race, environments, etc. Take MS. This is curable. Those who change their diets, and WANT to get better do. I knew 7 who had MS. None were willing to change diet and make effort. I learned then that many people like being sick for a number of reasons that are very deep. After 38 years of no doctors and taking any pills I moved late into mid-'60's and many life crisises. Weight ballooned, depression, blood pressure went up first time. 8 years have passed. Half the weight refuses to leave, blood pressure remains up despite efforts. I mention this as factors such as life transitions, age, hormonal changes, plus cosmic factors weigh in. Hey! Everyone. It's hard to be a human being! Nothing remains the same. Anything is possible. Diet has to be addressed first. Like building a house. You don't build a frame without a foundation. You can go to one eating place after another and not get one fresh veggie. Or, fresh fruit. It's a toxic world out there and too much eating out, junk foods, rushing, eating alone, even 'fresh' in some stores looks old. It's hard. But if serious, read James D'Adamo's Four Diets Four Blood Types. Great place to start. Next, read all of Kevin Trudeau's books of TV fame. Wow! He's done a SUPER job! Great eye opener. If you haven't begun any serious thinking bout food and your health you will after these books.
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» Kevin Trudeau is a CON ARTIST
Posted by: peleo_huntress
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Posted by: gretavo on Aug 21, 2007 7:33 AM
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Matt?
>cricket< >cricket
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» RE: Amen. Speaking of cavemen...
Posted by: YogiBear
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Posted by: sweet_byrd on Aug 22, 2007 5:01 PM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
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