COMMENTS: 25
Does the House Bill's Public Option Kill Off the Senate's?
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It's encouraging that Press Secretary Robert Gibbs threatened to use the budget reconciliation process if the health care bill stalls in the Senate. Other than a brief burst of optimism I had after Senator Paul Kirk was seated as Kennedy's replacement, I have never believed that Obama could pass a public option through the Senate. The only chance I could see for doing that was to first pass a bill through the Senate that didn't have a public option. This would allow Harry Reid to pass all the procedural hurdles up to the point that the Senate had to vote on the Conference Report. At that point, with both chambers having passed a health care reform bill, we'd be waiting for the historic vote on final passage. There would be the maximum possible amount of pressure on Democratic senators not to kill all the hard work made up to that point by denying the Majority Leader a procedural vote to bring the bill up. If a public option was going to survive, it needed to be introduced only at this final point in the process. That wouldn't guarantee passage, but it would provide us with the best chance. And, if some lonely senator like Joe Lieberman or Ben Nelson decided to take the heat and kill reform at that point, it would be relatively easy to make the case for using the budget reconciliation process rather than let one or two insurance whores in the caucus stand in the way of historic reform.
Harry Reid decided to go in another direction. He decided to make the public option part of the base bill. As soon as he did that, it killed off all the momentum for a robust public option in the House. The leadership asked the Progressives to prove that they had the votes for it, and they couldn't. It didn't seem to matter too much because the robust public option was never going to pass the Senate anyway. It was, as Pelosi stated repeatedly, a chip to use in the Conference Committee. She wanted a robust public option in hand because she always assumed that the Senate version would lack any public option at all. The idea was that each side would compromise, and the end result would be a public option that was not tied to Medicare reimbursement rates. But, when Reid put exactly that type of public option in the base bill, there was no longer any need for the House to pass the stronger version. It was easier to give nervous centrists a break and only ask them to vote for a non-robust public option that more nearly resembled the Senate version. It shouldn't make much difference in the end. The House and Senate would still wind up in the same place, they'd just start out with less of a divide.
But, of course, things didn't turn out exactly that way. Pelosi didn't gain extra votes once she dropped her push for a robust public option. Instead, the House conservadems got greedy and insisted on adding the Stupak-Pitts Amendment. Even then, Pelosi saw no spike in centrist support. She passed the bill with a mere two more votes than she needed, and one of those votes was from a Republican. It's encouraging that Obama has announced that he finds the Stupak-Pitts language unacceptable, but it's not clear that he can strip it out without losing the support of three congresspeople.
Meanwhile, Reid's gambit appears to be failing, as he can't line up 60 votes for the base bill. Unless something changes, Reid will be forced to withdraw his bill and reintroduce one that has no public option. Failing that, he could give up and go straight to the budget reconciliation process. But, unlike the scenario I crafted, where the blame for failing to pass something with a public option would come at the very end of the process and fall on Joe Lieberman or Ben Nelson, in this scenario the failure would come prior to the Conference Committee and fall solely on Reid for miscalculating and failing to lead his caucus. Far from demonstrating overwhelming support for the public option, he would have demonstrated that it was a non-starter in the Senate. Meanwhile, the House barely passed a bill that had ridiculous abortion restrictions and a non-robust public option. How could they be expected to turn around and pass a bill in reconciliation that is much stronger?
I know that the people pushing for a public option in the base Senate bill meant well, and they have convinced themselves that only through their efforts has a public option survived at all. But it is not that simple. The Progressives were pledged to vote against any bill that doesn't have a robust public option, but they showed the emptiness of that threat when they couldn't muster the votes to pass one and they backed down. Reid was pressured into introducing the public option prematurely, over the doubts of the White House, and now he's left holding the bag.
Procedure in complicated and infuriating. But making the wrong calls on procedural moves has now imperiled the passage on any health care reform whatsoever, whether done under reconciliation or not.
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Comments are closed-
Posted by: hurricane hugo on Nov 10, 2009 11:59 AM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
your input/answers would be appreciated. :D
#@!
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» RE: just an idea:
Posted by: badkitty
» RE: Works for all the rest of us
Posted by: kettleblack
» RE: just an idea:
Posted by: tim_s_eb@yahoo.com
Comments are closed-
Posted by: pawheel on Nov 10, 2009 1:01 PM
Current rating: 2 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
What we REALLY need is Term limits!
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Comments are closed-
Posted by: techcafe on Nov 10, 2009 1:32 PM
Current rating: 4 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
basically, there is SO MUCH $$$ to be made (stolen) in the private-for-profit 'corporate care' industrial complex, that the robber barons of the insurance & pharmaceutical industries, and others of their ilk, will stop at nothing to enrich themselves, while continuing to exploit the sick & dieing, as these bottom feeders have done for generations.
but hey america, take heart, sickness & death are good for the economy!
(at least for the medical/insurance/pharmaceutical sectors).
american capitalism at its finest.
[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]
» There are no opposing forces, because the politicians are the crooks
Posted by: james108
» stfu and grab a mop!
Posted by: techcafe
» Obama's intentions are noble and he's powerless? you can cut the bull yourself
Posted by: james108
» RE: Obama's intentions are noble and he's powerless? you can cut the bull yourself
Posted by: richholland
» but what about the rest of us?
Posted by: techcafe
» RE: Grab a Broom First
Posted by: kettleblack
» RE: Grab a Broom First
Posted by: techcafe
» RE: capitalism RULES!
Posted by: tim_s_eb@yahoo.com
» RE: capitalism RULES!
Posted by: techcafe
Comments are closed-
Posted by: james108 on Nov 10, 2009 2:59 PM
Current rating: 4 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
In particular, the democrats killed the chance we had for real reform. Republicans could never have taken single payer out of even the discussion with so many people demanding it in this newly dangerous economy. Republicans could not have gotten progressives to start accepting the war as a "smart war" or "the right war" now.
I know conservatives who actually would be OK with expanding medicare or some sort of limited single payer of required medical services, but they say the democrats just lie and are dishonest about what they're trying to do, which is true. The democrats are dishonest to liberals and conservatives with their "wink wink" gateway to single payer designed to just suck more money into the system with no real cost controls or discussion of how things are more expensive here, ala Obama's backdoor deals to keep drug prices up, cutting medicare services to seniors in need and what else. If I took $500 from you and gave you nothing in return, you would not call it a "savings". If they take away funding from Medicare, that's not the same thing as saving Medicare money, it's a cut.
People were ready to consider something different and the democrats co-opted and twisted it with Obama's soaring rhetoric which was just another trick, trying to put a nicer face on militaristic economic imperialism and big government squeezing already suffering people dry.
The republicans were bad enough, but it just seems so much worse that people who pretend to or want to care about humanity and the unfortunate cover for this charade now.
Congress can still easily pass a dozen smaller, straight forward bills to help the people. Putting everything into a convoluted thousand page mess and trying to make people just take it or leave it is just wrong.
1. Conservatively and liberally speaking - Let insurance companies compete across state lines, and take away their antitrust monopoly exemption.
2. Conservative and liberal compromise - Establish a universal fee schedule, maybe with exceptions for complicating factors. There is no legitimate or moral reason a hospital charges medicare $100 for a service, someone with insurance $150 (including what insurance pays) and then extorts $200 or more from someone without insurance. Some providers charge individuals without insurance way more than medicare or any insurance would pay, because they can, and they get huge write offs for losses when people can't pay the inflated bills.
3. Way crazy, if we want to fix the problem use some of the money saved in this trillion dollar bill and help train doctors that will be sorely needed to offset the AMA's historical lobbying to artificially limit the number of doctors available, and the services that can be performed by other qualified professionals.
4. Expand the understanding and use of effective, low cost, non-patented remedies.
5. We'd actually have money for some sort of limited single payer to cover agreed upon essential services and/or expand and improve medicare if we addressed the extra ordinarily high cost for everything we pay here mostly due to an already convoluted, elite designed system.
These are just simple things I think would be part of any real compromise or discussion on what we could do to improve health care quality and access. Instead, we get paid off politicians spouting the same nothing over and over, calling it debate.
[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]
» RE: It doesn't need to be this complicated
Posted by: richholland
» RE: It doesn't need to be this complicated... but it IS
Posted by: techcafe
» RE:publican Nightmare: Private business competes with Public Service
Posted by: kettleblack
Comments are closed-
Posted by: chetdude on Nov 11, 2009 9:42 AM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
This lousy, sick, bankrupt USAmerikan Empire can't even get a simple concept like "We need to help each other in our times of need." or "Yes, I am my brother's keeper."
And not just about "Health Care"
This bullsh*t legislation is being "crafted" by people in the pocket of corporations and simmering in a sea of corporate-think.
This bullsh*t "nation" can spend trillions on the war machine in order to rape and rob from the billions to allow a tiny minority to live in utter luxury and a slight majority to be marginally fed and entertained by the bread and circuses of the Empire - mcdonalds and cable TV, but can’t find its way to spend anything substantial for the General Welfare.
Meanwhile, the mindless glorification of that USAmerikan Imperial war machine and its dirty deeds fill the airwaves of the empire’s propaganda machine on ARMISTICE DAY; the day on which the rest of the world (the semi-civilized part) celebrates the sudden, planned outbreak of Peace 90 years ago today.
We can’t allow the promotion of bad examples like PEACE or "Universal Health Care" now, can we?
SICKENING...
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Comments are closed-
Posted by: willymack on Nov 11, 2009 1:50 PM
Current rating: 3 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
It's already half dead, having been gutted by coroprate and congressional crooks.
As in the Clinton administration, the assholes will prevail, and it'll be business as usual.
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Comments are closed-
Posted by: greenferret on Nov 11, 2009 1:59 PM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Tell your senators to support single-payer health care by co-sponsoring S. 703, the American Health Security Act.
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Comments are closed-
Posted by: sultan on Nov 11, 2009 10:41 PM
Current rating: Not yet rated [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
العاب
شات كتابي
دردشة كتابية
منتديات
مركز تحميل
مسجات
دليل مواقع
توبيكات
ماسنجر
شات صوتي
دردشة صوتية
ثيمات
عنوان اي بي
احسب عمرك
زخارف
دليل
دليل مواقع
دليل المواقع
المبدعون
المبدعون العرب
توب سايت
دليل توب سايت
دليل مواقع توب سايت
اضف موقعك
دردشة
شات
منتديات الاقتصاد المنزلي
الاقتصاد المنزلي
[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]
Comments are closed-
Posted by: sultan on Nov 11, 2009 10:42 PM
Current rating: Not yet rated [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
العاب
شات كتابي
دردشة كتابية
منتديات
مركز تحميل
مسجات
دليل مواقع
توبيكات
ماسنجر
شات صوتي
دردشة صوتية
ثيمات
عنوان اي بي
احسب عمرك
زخارف
دليل
دليل مواقع
دليل المواقع
المبدعون
المبدعون العرب
توب سايت
دليل توب سايت
دليل مواقع توب سايت
اضف موقعك
دردشة
شات
منتديات الاقتصاد المنزلي
الاقتصاد المنزلي
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Comments are closed-
Posted by: bukoo on Nov 18, 2009 9:02 PM
Current rating: Not yet rated [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
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Comments are closed-
Posted by: hurricane hugo on Nov 10, 2009 11:59 AM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
your input/answers would be appreciated. :D
#@!
[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]
» RE: just an idea:
Posted by: badkitty
» RE: Works for all the rest of us
Posted by: kettleblack
» RE: just an idea:
Posted by: tim_s_eb@yahoo.com
Comments are closed-
Posted by: pawheel on Nov 10, 2009 1:01 PM
Current rating: 2 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
What we REALLY need is Term limits!
[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]
Comments are closed-
Posted by: techcafe on Nov 10, 2009 1:32 PM
Current rating: 4 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
basically, there is SO MUCH $$$ to be made (stolen) in the private-for-profit 'corporate care' industrial complex, that the robber barons of the insurance & pharmaceutical industries, and others of their ilk, will stop at nothing to enrich themselves, while continuing to exploit the sick & dieing, as these bottom feeders have done for generations.
but hey america, take heart, sickness & death are good for the economy!
(at least for the medical/insurance/pharmaceutical sectors).
american capitalism at its finest.
[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]
» There are no opposing forces, because the politicians are the crooks
Posted by: james108
» stfu and grab a mop!
Posted by: techcafe
» Obama's intentions are noble and he's powerless? you can cut the bull yourself
Posted by: james108
» RE: Obama's intentions are noble and he's powerless? you can cut the bull yourself
Posted by: richholland
» but what about the rest of us?
Posted by: techcafe
» RE: Grab a Broom First
Posted by: kettleblack
» RE: Grab a Broom First
Posted by: techcafe
» RE: capitalism RULES!
Posted by: tim_s_eb@yahoo.com
» RE: capitalism RULES!
Posted by: techcafe
Comments are closed-
Posted by: james108 on Nov 10, 2009 2:59 PM
Current rating: 4 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
In particular, the democrats killed the chance we had for real reform. Republicans could never have taken single payer out of even the discussion with so many people demanding it in this newly dangerous economy. Republicans could not have gotten progressives to start accepting the war as a "smart war" or "the right war" now.
I know conservatives who actually would be OK with expanding medicare or some sort of limited single payer of required medical services, but they say the democrats just lie and are dishonest about what they're trying to do, which is true. The democrats are dishonest to liberals and conservatives with their "wink wink" gateway to single payer designed to just suck more money into the system with no real cost controls or discussion of how things are more expensive here, ala Obama's backdoor deals to keep drug prices up, cutting medicare services to seniors in need and what else. If I took $500 from you and gave you nothing in return, you would not call it a "savings". If they take away funding from Medicare, that's not the same thing as saving Medicare money, it's a cut.
People were ready to consider something different and the democrats co-opted and twisted it with Obama's soaring rhetoric which was just another trick, trying to put a nicer face on militaristic economic imperialism and big government squeezing already suffering people dry.
The republicans were bad enough, but it just seems so much worse that people who pretend to or want to care about humanity and the unfortunate cover for this charade now.
Congress can still easily pass a dozen smaller, straight forward bills to help the people. Putting everything into a convoluted thousand page mess and trying to make people just take it or leave it is just wrong.
1. Conservatively and liberally speaking - Let insurance companies compete across state lines, and take away their antitrust monopoly exemption.
2. Conservative and liberal compromise - Establish a universal fee schedule, maybe with exceptions for complicating factors. There is no legitimate or moral reason a hospital charges medicare $100 for a service, someone with insurance $150 (including what insurance pays) and then extorts $200 or more from someone without insurance. Some providers charge individuals without insurance way more than medicare or any insurance would pay, because they can, and they get huge write offs for losses when people can't pay the inflated bills.
3. Way crazy, if we want to fix the problem use some of the money saved in this trillion dollar bill and help train doctors that will be sorely needed to offset the AMA's historical lobbying to artificially limit the number of doctors available, and the services that can be performed by other qualified professionals.
4. Expand the understanding and use of effective, low cost, non-patented remedies.
5. We'd actually have money for some sort of limited single payer to cover agreed upon essential services and/or expand and improve medicare if we addressed the extra ordinarily high cost for everything we pay here mostly due to an already convoluted, elite designed system.
These are just simple things I think would be part of any real compromise or discussion on what we could do to improve health care quality and access. Instead, we get paid off politicians spouting the same nothing over and over, calling it debate.
[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]
» RE: It doesn't need to be this complicated
Posted by: richholland
» RE: It doesn't need to be this complicated... but it IS
Posted by: techcafe
» RE:publican Nightmare: Private business competes with Public Service
Posted by: kettleblack
Comments are closed-
Posted by: chetdude on Nov 11, 2009 9:42 AM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
This lousy, sick, bankrupt USAmerikan Empire can't even get a simple concept like "We need to help each other in our times of need." or "Yes, I am my brother's keeper."
And not just about "Health Care"
This bullsh*t legislation is being "crafted" by people in the pocket of corporations and simmering in a sea of corporate-think.
This bullsh*t "nation" can spend trillions on the war machine in order to rape and rob from the billions to allow a tiny minority to live in utter luxury and a slight majority to be marginally fed and entertained by the bread and circuses of the Empire - mcdonalds and cable TV, but can’t find its way to spend anything substantial for the General Welfare.
Meanwhile, the mindless glorification of that USAmerikan Imperial war machine and its dirty deeds fill the airwaves of the empire’s propaganda machine on ARMISTICE DAY; the day on which the rest of the world (the semi-civilized part) celebrates the sudden, planned outbreak of Peace 90 years ago today.
We can’t allow the promotion of bad examples like PEACE or "Universal Health Care" now, can we?
SICKENING...
[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]
Comments are closed-
Posted by: willymack on Nov 11, 2009 1:50 PM
Current rating: 3 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
It's already half dead, having been gutted by coroprate and congressional crooks.
As in the Clinton administration, the assholes will prevail, and it'll be business as usual.
[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]
Comments are closed-
Posted by: greenferret on Nov 11, 2009 1:59 PM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Tell your senators to support single-payer health care by co-sponsoring S. 703, the American Health Security Act.
[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]
Comments are closed-
Posted by: sultan on Nov 11, 2009 10:41 PM
Current rating: Not yet rated [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
العاب
شات كتابي
دردشة كتابية
منتديات
مركز تحميل
مسجات
دليل مواقع
توبيكات
ماسنجر
شات صوتي
دردشة صوتية
ثيمات
عنوان اي بي
احسب عمرك
زخارف
دليل
دليل مواقع
دليل المواقع
المبدعون
المبدعون العرب
توب سايت
دليل توب سايت
دليل مواقع توب سايت
اضف موقعك
دردشة
شات
منتديات الاقتصاد المنزلي
الاقتصاد المنزلي
[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]
Comments are closed-
Posted by: sultan on Nov 11, 2009 10:42 PM
Current rating: Not yet rated [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
العاب
شات كتابي
دردشة كتابية
منتديات
مركز تحميل
مسجات
دليل مواقع
توبيكات
ماسنجر
شات صوتي
دردشة صوتية
ثيمات
عنوان اي بي
احسب عمرك
زخارف
دليل
دليل مواقع
دليل المواقع
المبدعون
المبدعون العرب
توب سايت
دليل توب سايت
دليل مواقع توب سايت
اضف موقعك
دردشة
شات
منتديات الاقتصاد المنزلي
الاقتصاد المنزلي
[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]
Comments are closed-
Posted by: bukoo on Nov 18, 2009 9:02 PM
Current rating: Not yet rated [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]
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