PERSONAL HEALTH  
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Americans Pay More to Die Earlier -- Why Is Our Health Care System So Screwed Up?

Because it was created by Dr. Frankenstein and Satan? Actually, the truth is far less comforting.
September 28, 2009  |  
 
 
 
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Editor's note: This is the first in a series looking at our uniquely dysfunctional health care system.

There are times when it's comforting to imagine that at some point in our history Satan hired Dr. Frankenstein to help him stitch together our health care system.

You can picture the Dark Lord standing over the good doctor in his underground lab barking orders for creating the most insane and irrational health care system in the industrialized world.

"It must cost more per person than any other health care system, and it must leave tens of millions uninsured!" Satan cackled. "It must rely on private markets that give most people no choice in who covers them! It must produce hundreds of thousands of bankruptcies every year! And, and, and! It must produce a system where some patients get excessive and wasteful care, while others have to shuttle off to emergency rooms just to receive primary care treatment! Mwah-ha-ha!"

The reason I consider this scenario to be "comforting" is because it's far less depressing than the actual truth, which is that our medical system has been haphazardly pieced together over the last century almost by accident.

After all, even the most dedicated malevolent entity lacks the creative imagination to devise a system that swallows up 16 percent of our economic output on health care while still producing lower average life expectancies than most industrialized nations.

This raises the question, though, of why our system is so screwed up.

Part of the problem that reform advocates have had in making their case to the public is that our insane system has so many moving parts and uniquely inefficient features that it's been extremely difficult to craft a master narrative that the average person can understand (opponents, meanwhile, only have to tell people that Barack Obama wants to slaughter the elderly).

This article is meant to serve as a basic guide for why our health care system is the most inefficient in the industrialized world and why reforming it has proven so incredibly difficult.

Follow the Money

Let's start with a simple premise: The problem with American health care has nothing to do with the quality of our doctors and hospitals and everything to do with how we pay them.

Most industrialized countries pay for their health care either through a single-payer system where hospitals receive payments directly from the government, or through a series of nonprofit private insurers who pay fees based on a rate negotiated by the government. In both models, the government assumes the role of primary negotiator for setting prices.

In the United States, needless to say, this is not the case. We rely on private insurers as the primary price negotiators for medical services. But because insurers lack the cohesion and clout to really drum down prices, Americans spend a lot more on health care than any other country in the world. A lot, lot, lot, lot more.

In 2007, the United States spent an average of $7,290 per person on health care -- 16 percent of gross domestic product. By contrast, our Canadian neighbors  spent an average of $3,895 per person, or 10 percent of GDP. The British spent $2,992 per person, or 8.4 percent of GDP. And the Japanese, who have some of the longest life expectancies in the world, spend $2,581 per person, or 8 percent of GDP.

The numbers for the U.S. are ridiculous by any measure, even if all this spending was producing a race of super beings capable of outswimming sharks and defeating grizzly bears in steel-cage death matches. But no: most studies of the world's healthiest nations don't even place the United States in the top 10, and the World Health Organization ranks our health care system 37th, just ahead of Slovenia's.

Although private insurers lack the ability to effectively bring down costs, they are able to compensate for high treatment prices in other, more pernicious ways.

First, they work like hell to deny coverage to people. Not only do they refuse to sell insurance policies to people with pre-existing medical conditions, but they spend a great deal of energy trying to rescind coverage for patients who dare to rack up big medical bills.

As they've faced increasing pressure to pay for rising medical costs over the years, insurers have expanded the definition of "pre-existing condition" to include such modern plagues as acne, pregnancy and hemorrhoids.

The other way insurers compensate for rising medical prices is to simply pass the cost on to the consumer, something that they've done with great success recently; insurance premiums have more than doubled over the last decade and have grown more than twice the rate of inflation.

Now, you might say that if premium prices get too high, then more consumers will opt out and thus force the insurers to bring down prices. And if Americans primarily purchased their insurance on an individual basis, that might certainly be the case.

But no! In America, most people get their insurance through their employers. This means that price increases are passed on to them indirectly in the form of stagnating wages.

In other words, if you've wondered over the past few years why you've gotten a paltry raise, no raise or even a pay cut, chances are it's because your company is struggling to foot the bill for your health insurance premiums. The bottom line is that insurance companies can get away with gouging consumers because consumers don't really know that they're being gouged.

It Gets Worse

As if all this weren't bad enough, our system adds several stupid little wrinkles to the equation that drive up costs even further.

The first and most obvious wrinkle is that the high cost of health care in this country prices tens of millions of people out of the private insurance market.

People who don't have insurance cannot afford to get good preventative care from a primary care physician and must therefore rely on emergency rooms for their medical needs. Needless to say, emergency-room care is really damn expensive, and having millions of people rely on it so heavily is another reason health care costs keep going up.

The second wrinkle is that even Americans who have insurance have a tough time getting it to pay for their preventative care.

You might think that insurance companies would have every reason in the world to wring long-term savings from the system by investing more in their customers' preventative care, and in a rational world they would. But since Americans change jobs [PDF] -- and therefore insurance plans -- once every five years, insurers figure that they're better off not paying for chronic-care investments that will hurt them financially in the short run without providing them with long-run savings.

Or as New York Times writer Ian Urbina put it in an article on the difficulties of funding long-term diabetes treatment, "any savings from preventative measures will only go to [the insurers'] competitors."

The third wrinkle is the amount of money it costs for doctors to practice medicine.

American doctors have to pay a ton of money for malpractice insurance and medical school. In other countries, doctors are far less likely to be sued successfully for large sums of money, and the government will pick up some or all of doctors' tabs for medical school.

T.R. Reid notes in his book, The Healing of America, French doctors typically pay less than $1,000 per year for malpractice insurance, while American doctors on average pay tens of thousands of dollars, even in states that cap malpractice awards. Because of this, American doctors are far less willing than doctors in other countries to take less money for the services they perform.

And finally and most infuriatingly, there's the cost to hospitals for keeping track of all this crap.

Since hospitals have to deal with such a wide variety of payers for their services, they often have to waste ungodly amounts of time and money just trying to keep track of who the hell owes them money.

According to Reid, hospitals are increasingly hiring more "compilers" who serve as "middlemen who compile the bills that doctors submit and then shuttle them through a payment system."

Or put another way, providers have been forced to create a layer of wasteful bureaucracy whose sole job is to deal with wasteful bureaucracy.

If you aren't hitting your head against your desk yet while reading this, then I am clearly not doing a good enough job in explaining the utter lunacy of this "system." When you stand back and look at the totality of this calamitous mess, with its warped financial incentives, its appalling inequities and its fragmented payment structure, you can't help but grudgingly appreciate it as a true masterwork of bad systemic design.

After all, if stupid health care policy were artwork, the American system would be the equivalent of "Mona Lisa" or "Starry Night" (or, perhaps more accurately, "Guernica").

It takes a uniquely American, red-white-and-blue, star-spangled failure to produce a private market that miraculously offers most consumers no individual choice of their provider, but we've somehow pulled it off.

Next: We'll take a look at why it's been nearly impossible to reform.

Brad Reed is a writer in Boston. His work has previously appeared in the American Prospect Online, and he blogs frequently at Sadly, No!
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Excellent article that sums up the problems. Now about that last sentence.
Posted by: maxpayne on Sep 28, 2009 12:35 AM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
"Next: We'll take a look at why it's been nearly impossible to reform."

It's not too hard to determine what's stopping reform. In addition to Big Insurance and Big Pharma, the medical world is more complicated than one thinks.

From an earlier article that discussed medical errors being made by doctors, nurses, and the medical equipment itself, I don't know how single payer health care will address that part.

Another reason reform is unlikely to happen is that people are not being rewarded for doing their part on keeping healthy on their own as best as possible. Instead, despite the higher costs of making processed junk food over healthy produce, the junk food is artificially "low" in price compared to the healthy foods. Since the costs of living are going up, people will resort desperately to cutting corners even if that includes resorting to junk food everyday. There needs to be cooperation from more people.

Perhaps health care reform will not be one reform but reform on each of the various major factors that go into making health care in America too costly to afford.

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» lots of truth Posted by: james108
» RE: lots of truth Posted by: maxpayne
» fine line Posted by: james108
» RE: fine line Posted by: maxpayne

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Comparing it to art work...
Posted by: cordas on Sep 28, 2009 1:05 AM   
Current rating: 4    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Surely the most apt piece of artwork would be The Scream.

From this side of the pond I just have to laugh at America and its insanity, because to do anything else would be to risk insanity for myself.

The only way it will be successfully reformed is if someone just bulldozes all the complaints. When Bevan set out to create the NHS here post WW2 he did just that, telling Doctors that they could either join up or loose the rights to practice full stop, end of debate, someone needs to do the same to your health care providers, either they get on board with complete reform or they don't and they go out of business.

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Order In The Court
Posted by: johnwinthrop on Sep 28, 2009 3:10 AM   
Current rating: 2    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Total systematic reform to cure the basic problems the author details so well is impossible, given the stranglehold of lobbyists on our corrupt Congress and President. Perhaps at least we can stop the tort racket by lawyers against doctors? Oh I forgot. The trial lawyers are one of the biggest, if not biggest, contributors to the pure as snow Democrats.

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» Med-Mal canard Posted by: brunowe

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An experiment in incontinent capitalism
Posted by: Perry Logan on Sep 28, 2009 3:09 AM   
Current rating: 4    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
I have a simpler, more global explanation: America used capitalism to run its health-care system, and capitalism will destroy anything it touches.

Somewhere along the line, America decided that Merchants are the super-race and the free market system is perfect. (Merchant types have egos the size of the Queen Mary.) We have gone on--especially in the last 30 years--to rig the system entirely for the capitalists.

That's why the system has imploded.

Note that the only solutions to our health-care crisis are the non-capitalistic ones. A child can see that the various capitalist solutions to our health-care system are the ones that will cost a lot and not work.

The same principle--that capitalism sucks--applies across the board, 100%. If you turn something over to the Merchant class, they will destroy it.

Super-race, indeed. We let capitalism run our media...and now you can't believe a word you hear on the media. We let capitalism play the major role in our goverment--and now we probably have the most laughably dysfunctional government in the developed world.

Since 2001, we even started letting capitalists write our environmental laws, and now the air and water are fetid. Once again, you can walk across Lake Eerie.

Fun fact: Sen. Obama voted for the Cheney energy bill. Obama may be the last guy in the woprld who falls for this neocon garbage.

We run our school on capitalist principles...and we have the worst schools in the world.

As a futher experiment on the effects of capitalism on public policy, Texas runs its schools on even more strongly capitalist-libertarian principles; so Texas has the worst schools in the U.S., which has the worst schools in the world. Go capitalists!)

More capitalist triumphs: Reagan released the beast of free enterprise--and money started hemorrhaging out of the country.

Did you know Reaganomics was supposed to pay off the deficit? Shows you how low IQs were in the 1980s.

America let private contractors run the Iraq occupation--part of a reason the whole thing is a cosmic botch, with record-shattering costs, inefficiency., unaccountability, and tragedy.

The recent history of the United States is the history of letting Merchants run amok. They quickly looted the Treasury and sold the country to China. All in all, it was the stupidest political experiemnt in the history of the world. It is still uncertain whether America will survive.

"Merchants have no country. The mere spot they stand on does not constitute so strong an attachment as that from which they draw their gains. I hope we shall crush in its birth the aristocracy of our monied corporations which dare already to challenge our government to a trial by strength, and bid defiance to the laws of our country."
- Thomas Jefferson

PS: Still a bit Sad.

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Good article, two caveats
Posted by: kip sullivan on Sep 28, 2009 4:22 AM   
Current rating: 4    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
The main message of this article is absolutely correct. I offer two caveats.

First, the discussion about prevention needed one more paragraph -- a paragraph warning readers that most preventive services do not save money. The main reason this is so is that preventive services, by definition, have to be given to millions of people with no discernable signs of disease, the vast majority of whom would not have gotten sick. Moreover, many preventive services trigger more services (for example, a mammogram that finds a tumor triggers biopsies, surgery, radiation, chemo etc.), and some of these services induce diseases that require still more services (for example, cancer treatment can induce depression and bone loss).

For documentation of the statement that prevention does not save money, please see either Joshua T. Cohen et al., "Does preventive care save money?" New Eng J Med 2008;35(7):661-663), or visit the website of Partnership for Prevention, an emphatically mainstream outfit.

Second, we cannot treat malpractice costs as a factor explaining why US health care costs are twice those of the rest of the industrialized world on a per capita basis. Total spending on malpractice costs (premiums for liability insurance that providers pay, plus defensive medicine) come to no more than two or three percent of total health care spending in the US. Anything that accounts for 2-3% of total spending cannot be treated as a significant cause of health care costs or inflation. Moreover, even the most enthusiastic proponents of malpractice reform admit that it would probably cut no more than a half percentage point off that 2-3-percent total.

Kip Sullivan

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It's simple
Posted by: weightman on Sep 28, 2009 4:50 AM   
Current rating: 4    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Here's some language the average person might understand.

The healthcare system is dysfunctional because the insurance and drug companies have screwed it up. They've screwed it up so badly, 20-40,000 die every year.

Healthcare legislation proves impossible to reform because half of the premiums collected by insurance companies go to line the pockets of executives, lobbyists and politicians. Reform is the last thing they want.

For true reform, the only answer is to extend Medicare to all, temporarily. Remove the private sector from the equation, abate the crisis, initiate reform, establish oversight, and then reintroduce a tightly regulated private sector. We wouldn't want to deprive ourselves of the innovation and entrepreneurship the free market provides.

One Group. One Plan. One Payer.
It's that simple.

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HELL CARE
Posted by: Tom Degan on Sep 28, 2009 4:54 AM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
To listen to Sarah Palin and the bloviators on the right put it, Canadians and Europeans despise their health care system. Oh, really? My brother Pete has lived in Toronto for a decade. "Not true", says he. Brother Jeff has lived in Europe for almost twenty years. "Not true", says he. He went into a little more detail exclusively for you lucky Rant readers. Like his older brother, he's a tad long-winded. In Jeff Degan's own words:

"As an American who has been living in Europe for most of the last 20 years, one who has visited doctors numerous times in four different countries, whose two children were brought into this world in European hospitals (France and England), who has himself spent a week in a public British hospital, and who underwent an operation in a private British clinic, I think I can say a thing or two about health care in Europe.

"Our out of pocket expenses for the births? Zero. Even though in France my wife spent 5 days in the hospital after the birth of our first daughter, which is standard by the way.

"During the three years we lived in England, we never once paid for medicine for our children. Children get drugs for free in the UK. Visits to the GP are free for everybody.

"My expenses for the week in the NHS hospital? Zero.

"The cost of the operation in the private clinic? Zero, it was covered by my work insurance, as was the post-op physical therapy I needed.

"In Western Europe you would never be forced to sell your home in order to pay for your medical bills, as happens all too often in America when catastrophic illness strikes and the insurance company decides that your condition was 'pre-existing'.

"The quality of the care? Mostly good. French hospitals are excellent, even the food is decent. The food at the NHS hospital was beyond awful, but then again most English food is pretty bad (though they do have great Indian food). At night, they were understaffed, but I am guessing that, apart from that place where Dr. House works, most American hospitals are understaffed at night, too.

"In short, in the US, you pay more, get less, and die younger than we do in Europe. What part of that don't you understand?

"My fellow Americans, you have nothing to fear except those who would use fear to keep you enslaved to the myth of the might of the American health care system."

Jeff Degan

What can I tell you? The guy is a Communist. Not only does he live in France, he actually likes it there. An eternal shame to the good name of the Degan family. Let us boil down his seven paragraphs to their juicy essentials, shall we?

HEALTH CARE IN THIS COUNTRY SUCKS.

Here is (Excuse me, I meant to say, "Here was") a golden opportunity for real reform and the idiotic Americans are screaming about socialism. Is it any wonder that we have become the laughingstock of the Western world?

America the Pitiful

Tom Degan

Goshen, NY

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» RE: HELL CARE Posted by: garcam123
» No free ride Posted by: johnwinthrop
» RE: No free ride Posted by: Gripoxen
» RE: HELL CARE Posted by: Zeugitai

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Remote Health Care
Posted by: femtobeam on Sep 28, 2009 4:58 AM   
Current rating: 2    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Preventative Health Care is done with communications technology. It involves embedded devices and biofeedback, mostly from the brain of a person to determine what they are feeling, experiencing and thinking. It is 2 way interactive.

This can either be a way to eliminate medicines and provide a great helpful way for people to live productive lives or it can be a mind control and social engineering nightmare.

If these systems are not automated in accordance with the Constitution and upholding individual human rights, we will be in real bad shape.

The health care industry shows no signs of giving up its profits at the expense of real health in America, it is just adding profits in services that could be automated while providing a huge profit to mostly Asian manufacturers of communications equipment. Of course, the equipment and what it is used for is unknown at this time.

With laws the way they are now, the Telcos and distribution carriers can do what they want to computers. What will they do to your pacemaker? Slow it down?

The potential for abuse is very high. A Conficker Botnet to your brain or worse, a repeating advertisement slogan are the mild potential problems. Stealing your bank codes, looking into the sex life of girls for interactivity, and even rape and murder are possible by remote.

This is one of those areas that we cannot afford to be naïve about or get it wrong. There is also the fact that information has already been stolen from people. What will happen to it or because of it? There was never any way to deal with it because of privacy laws which are really just loopholes for criminals.

We need an automated system that protects our individual human rights and does not allow subjective judgments to enter into the psyche of our people.

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Warning: U.S. Military health care is socialism!
Posted by: taxidriver on Sep 28, 2009 5:21 AM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
If you're in the U.S. military, you get free health care provided by the government. If government-provided health care is good enough for "America's heroes," why isn't it good enough for the rest of us?

Also if you're in the military, your housing is also provided. Talk about socialism!

We have a "socialized" military fighting and dying to defend capitalism. Talk about Frankenstein's monster!

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One more thought
Posted by: Tom Degan on Sep 28, 2009 5:37 AM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Here is an e-mail I received recently from a man in Canada:

Here’s a very recent example of the terrible socialist Canadian Health care system….

My son-in-law last night went to the Hospital with what was apparently a hernia problem. He was visited and sent this morning to a specialist Hernia Center (Shouldice Hospital).

Following this morning’s visit by the specialist he was told that it isn’t critical, and is scheduled for surgery August 25, in 17 days. Had it been severe they would have operated on him urgently.

Cost to him for these visits (Hospital visit, specialist, family doctor) and for operation is still zero.

Below are two articles you might find interesting


http://www.commondreams.org/view/2009/06/07-0

America The Pitiful

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Brother Jeff's words, emboldened....
Posted by: Tom Degan on Sep 28, 2009 5:39 AM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
"As an American who has been living in Europe for most of the last 20 years, one who has visited doctors numerous times in four different countries, whose two children were brought into this world in European hospitals (France and England), who has himself spent a week in a public British hospital, and who underwent an operation in a private British clinic, I think I can say a thing or two about health care in Europe.

"Our out of pocket expenses for the births? Zero. Even though in France my wife spent 5 days in the hospital after the birth of our first daughter, which is standard by the way.

"During the three years we lived in England, we never once paid for medicine for our children. Children get drugs for free in the UK. Visits to the GP are free for everybody.

"My expenses for the week in the NHS hospital? Zero.

"The cost of the operation in the private clinic? Zero, it was covered by my work insurance, as was the post-op physical therapy I needed.

"In Western Europe you would never be forced to sell your home in order to pay for your medical bills, as happens all too often in America when catastrophic illness strikes and the insurance company decides that your condition was 'pre-existing'.

"The quality of the care? Mostly good. French hospitals are excellent, even the food is decent. The food at the NHS hospital was beyond awful, but then again most English food is pretty bad (though they do have great Indian food). At night, they were understaffed, but I am guessing that, apart from that place where Dr. House works, most American hospitals are understaffed at night, too.

"In short, in the US, you pay more, get less, and die younger than we do in Europe. What part of that don't you understand?

"My fellow Americans, you have nothing to fear except those who would use fear to keep you enslaved to the myth of the might of the American health care system."

Jeff Degan

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What You don't Know can kill you
Posted by: Purple Girl on Sep 28, 2009 5:44 AM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Beyond the level of not knowing that you are suffering from a disease, and not knowing what the insurer will really cover,Our Medical community has no idea what it could be facing in Epidemiological terms.
Beyond the personal risks, the financial devasation of a dysfunctional healthcare system we have the risk of not being prepared for the next epidemic/ pandemic. Nor do we have sufficient ways to detect trends which could indicate causative factors which not only contribute to the development but the spread.
Our Healthcare System should not only be where medical services are rendered but where data is collected to be evaluated on Regional, national and International levels.
If we had better Community Public Health focus we could have gotten ahead of AIDS. Had we been more focused on prevention, would the deadly Infection MRSA be as rampant as it is now in our hosptials,and nursing homes? If we could focus on the common factors cancers would we find an resolvable enviromental contributor- like where power stations and residential properties are in proximity to each other?
Our healthcare system is a repository of information which could not only be a reference source for healthcare professionals, but The Worlds people and 'planners'.
A revamped healthcare system would benefit individuals, the community, the nation and the world.

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The Economics of Desperation
Posted by: ProgressiveManiac on Sep 28, 2009 5:59 AM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
A fundamental tenant of capitalism seems to be that people are motivated by only one thing and that is the acquisition of money. For the wealthy, money is like a scorecard to measure success.

Of course everyone knows that this motivation is strongest for people who have the least and in this case it is not money itself that motivates but the things that money can buy, such as food and shelter. However, people who are so desperate that they have no food or shelter do not make very good workers and that creates a problem for the capitalist.

Modern American capitalism has found that access to medical care can make people sufficiently desperate without making them (usually) too weak to work. People hang on to jobs they hate (and seek work they know they will hate), just to get medical insurance. Sometimes this happens even for people who have adequate funds for other aspects of living such as food and shelter.

Conversations with opponents to healthcare reform usually and quickly turn to personal concerns such as how it will affect their own healthcare insurance. This seems to show how effectively they are controlled by the fear of losing what they have, inadequate though it may be. Certainly our healthcare system is inadequate for this country taken as a whole, but it seems as though instances of it are sufficiently good to provoke people to panic at the thought of losing it.

By providing effective motivations, our healthcare system makes very good capitalist sense. However, it is a short-sighted approach with some serious downside. Even from a strictly capitalist standpoint, it is a motivation which inhibits people from taking chances in the market. It keeps people from taking a new job or starting a new business. It is not a motivating factor that encourages true capitalism because it encourages stagnation. It also places a burden on companies that causes them to take their operations to other countries where they will not have to pay directly for the healthcare of their employees.

Most of us know that money is not the only thing that motivates people. People are motivated to do good work, to be appreciated for what they have done, to do interesting things. What has seemed to elude us is some way to keep people motivated and productive without resorting to the coercion of fear. This would seem a worthy objective to reach for, however.

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How to Cut Costs Easily .....
Posted by: jal64 on Sep 28, 2009 6:22 AM   
Current rating: 1    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
It's called TORT REFORM.

Aside from that it's ludicrous to think anything so large as a national health system run by Big Bro will cut overall costs vs GDP. Doubt me? Look at MEDICARE. Originally touted to cost MILLIONS, it now costs BILLIONS and has added TRILLIONS to our UNFUNDED debt obligation going forward. Obama says he will pay up to half by cutting Medicare "waste". If there is really this much waste, why has nobody done anything about it already? Why do we need this boondoggle to fix Medicare?

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» How about Single Payer? Posted by: LStinson1988
» RE: How about Single Payer? Posted by: LStinson1988
» RE: How about Single Payer? Posted by: LStinson1988
» RE: Tort "reform" is a red herring Posted by: LStinson1988
» RE: Tort "reform" is a red herring Posted by: LStinson1988
» RE: How to Cut Costs Easily ..... Posted by: ProgressiveManiac
» RE: How to Cut Costs Easily ..... Posted by: LStinson1988
» RE: How to Cut Costs Easily ..... Posted by: ProgressiveManiac
» Filled to the Brim with Horror Stories Posted by: ProgressiveManiac

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ANNUAL PHYSICAL CHECKUP
Posted by: CLARENCE SWINNEY on Sep 28, 2009 6:46 AM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
My physician works for an Investment Group.

He will not do annual physcials.

He says "they have always been doctors Bread and Butter Income. They are not needed except when conditions suggest it"

cswinney2@triad.rr.com

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» RE: ANNUAL PHYSICAL CHECKUP Posted by: ProgressiveManiac

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DENNIS KUCINICH IS THE ONE
Posted by: smf1403 on Sep 28, 2009 7:06 AM   
Current rating: 4    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
CORDAS ACROSS THE POND:

YOU ARE RIGHT ON. HEALTH CARE IN THIS COUNTRY WILL NOT EXIST FOR ALL PEOPLE UNTIL SOMEONE MAKES IT HAPPEN FOR ALL PEOPLE.

SOMEONE MUST FORCE IT THROUGH "THE SYSTEM" AND LIKE YOU SAID, FOR THOSE HEALTHCARE PROVIDERS THAT DON'T LIKE IT, BYE BYE.

THAT "SOMEONE" IS DENNIS KUCINICH. HE IS THE ONLY VIABLE CANDIDATE FOR PRESIDENT THAT WALKS THE TALK.

PEOPLE: PLEASE, PLEASE SEE THROUGH ALL THE RHETORIC OF THE ELITIST "OBAMAS" WHO WENT TO HARVARD AND SAY ONE THING AND DO ANOTHER.

WHEN WILL WE LEARN?
THE TIME IS NOW.
START SUPPORTING DENNIS KUCINICH WITH YOUR VOICE AND YOUR MONEY.
HE WILL:

END NAFTA, WTO (BRING BACK THE JOBS)
END WAR IN AFGHANISTAN AND IRAQ
END WELFARE FOR RICH (BANK BAILOUTS, INSURANCE MANDATES)
CREATE PEACE DEPARTMENT
CREATE REAL ENVIRONMENTAL REGULATIONS

HE SAID HE WILL GET ALL OF THIS DONE IN HIS FIRST WEEKS IN OFFICE AND HE HAS NOT FAILED US YET.
REMEMBER ALL THE EXECUTIVE ORDERS BUSH PUSHED THROUGH? ANY PRESIDENT HAS THE POWER AND I ENTRUST DENNIS KUCINICH TO ALWAYS DO THE RIGHT THING FOR THE PEOPLE, NOT CORPORATIONS.
PLEASE SUPPORT DENNIS KUCINICH NOW.

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» RE: DENNIS KUCINICH IS THE ONE Posted by: dazzle59
» lex the loser lives up to his name Posted by: pelican beak
» You accept defeat very gracefully. Posted by: pelican beak

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Please, follow the money......
Posted by: Spiritgirl on Sep 28, 2009 7:15 AM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
"The problem with American health care has nothing to do with the quality of our doctors and hospitals and everything to do with how we pay them."

Depending on the area of expertise, Doctors are paid for the procedures they do and the number of patients they see. The insurance industry collects as much as they do because they must pay their CEO's millions! The politicians that refuse to entertain price caps have not only bought the "free-market idealism lies", they are also funded through their PACs by BIG PHRMA and Health Insurance! Not to mention that many of the Lobbyists were part of the government and are now soliciting their old comrades!

This is the revolving door, that must be stopped! Health-care is not a privilege that should only go to the few, it is a right! People shouldn't have to go bankrupt in order to maintain their health! For all of the "ideals and morals" that Americans espouse, the vitriolic arguments against doing what's right fly in the face of that!

Yes, I know - "it will cost too much" - ok, so how about we stop: letting corporations get away with not paying their fare share of taxes (no really) they don't actually pay 35% actually they end up paying less than the "average American", or how about we actually tax the rich - hell even Warren Buffet said he didn't need the last of the Bush Tax Cuts, or how about we stop funding Agri-business, or how about we stop funding the Military-Industrial-Complex, or maybe we stop paying $10Million per day to Israel, or cut off subsidizing Haliburton who haven't really been providing all of those services to our troops, or how about.., well you get the picture! We can afford health-care, we can't afford to continue subsidizing Welfare for the Rich & Corporate at the expense of everyone else!

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THANK YOU DEGAN FAMILY
Posted by: smf1403 on Sep 28, 2009 7:21 AM   
Current rating: 4    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
THANK YOU DEGANS FOR ALL OF YOUR TRUTH-TELLING.

THIS INFORMATION ON REAL LIFE SINGLE-PAYER HEALTH CARE SITUATIONS IS INVALUABLE.

HEALTH CARE IS A BASIC HUMAN RIGHT AS ALL OTHER INDUSTRIALIZED COUNTRIES HAVE REALIZED.

THE ONLY WAY I SEE THE U.S. PROVIDING SINGLE-PAYER HEALTH CARE (NOT HEALTH INSURANCE) FOR ALL IS BY ELECTING DENNIS KUCINICH FOR PRESIDENT.

DENNIS KUCINICH HAS NOT BEEN BOUGHT OUT BY CORPORATIONS AS OBAMA AND THE REST HAVE.
DENNIS KUCINICH WILL GET THIS DONE.

I HAVE FRIENDS, EUROPEAN AND AMERICAN, LIVING IN ENGLAND AND IRELAND THAT HAVE NO PROBLEMS WITH THE HEALTH CARE THERE.

DO NOT LISTEN TO THE GOVERNMENT-OWNED MAINSTREAM MEDIA BRAINWASHING.

AGAIN, SUPPORT DENNIS KUCINICH!

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» RE: THANK YOU DEGAN FAMILY Posted by: dazzle59

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Death paneled...
Posted by: bobtr900 on Sep 28, 2009 7:35 AM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
It's screwed up bercause we have been "death paneled", for profit, by the Repub party and it's satanicly obsessive dedication to the "profit motive" and ONLY their profit motive.

Human values never enter into their equation where the "profit motive" rules everything. If they wanted us to have a national healthcare system we would have had it a long time ago and by now itwould be a smooth running system..

The Repubs are the party of soul-less people,. greed is everything to them.

That is another reason why I do not believe in their constant crying and whining about Pro-life and Family Values. That phrase is another Repub meta-message for greed and a smoke screen for them to do everything for PROFIT and at everyone elses expense. They are brutal and heart-less people.who are always screaming about money and nothing else.

There is something terribly wrong with people who would keep others in slavery for their economic advantage. That is the people who run and/or try destroy this nation. Get in their way and they will kill you. And they will insist it is Pro-life and Family Values!!!..

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How did it get this way?
Posted by: willymack on Sep 28, 2009 8:02 AM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Forget the "America is number one" nonsense, unless you're talking about bullshit.
We got to where we are through a process that's well known AND reversable.
Submitted for your consideration is the child raising analogy:
Provide a personal example for your child. Inculcate in him a concern for his fellow creatures and an enlightened self-interest.
Give him close supervision when and where needed.
Show him how good morals, honesty, and tolerance for others leads to harmonious personal relations and peaceful co-existence.
Fail in any of these catagories, and watch your child become a selfish, obnoxious lout.
Now' take a look at corporate America. They're the neglected and spolied child who has been ignored far too long, and allowed to develop in all the wrong ways. To make matters worse, they ally thamselves with those elected to protect us from them.
To reverse this mess, corporate America must be brought up short, through close supervision, exclusion from any decision making affecting the health and/or welfare of our citizens, and LEGAL action when and where necessary. Crooked politicans should be censured or even ARRESTED for their failure to fulfil their sworn duties, and removed from office, never to return.
Pathological greed and criminal neglect have made a real mess of things, but I think there's still time to set things aright.
Will any of this happen? Not bloody likely.

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Another lobbyist for Big Pharma gets to take Ted Kennedy's place !
Posted by: Benn_Miller on Sep 28, 2009 8:06 AM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]

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More information on Paul Kirk's lobbyist background
Posted by: Benn_Miller on Sep 28, 2009 8:08 AM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
http://centrepointnews.com/?p=3541

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NY Daily News
Posted by: JSquercia on Sep 28, 2009 8:20 AM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Today's NY Dailey news had a GREAT piece by an ER doctor who described treating a woman who had the appearance of a Heart Attack .She had lost her job and therefore her health Insurance
and after several days of pain that showed all the symptoms of a heart attack had finally gone to the ER .THEY ordered various Medical tests to confirm the presence of a Heart attack .She fell asleep and the doctor let her sleep . Fortunately the reports showed that she had not had a heart attack . She was alright but her ER visit would result a bill of $10,000 .

Nothing better illustrates the problem with our health care system than this . This poor woman had previously been a taxpaying member of society with a medical coverage was now FORCED to use the most expensive part of our system as her Primary care Provider and received a bill which she obviously could not pay of $10,000 (god knows WHAT the bill would have been Had she actually had to be treated for a heart attack) .
A thought for all those people who object to paying for others who are without Insurance , the state tacks on an additional percentage of over 10& to bills paid by Insurance . The companies of course pass that cost DIRECTLY on to you .So you ARE paying for those people ANYWAY and allowing them to have Insurance and have a primary care Physician would be cheaper

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» RE: NY Daily News Posted by: aussidawg

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WHEN SICKNESS BECAME PROFITABLE
Posted by: VZEQICVA on Sep 28, 2009 8:26 AM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
That's when everything changed. Hospitals not long ago were non-profit. Pharmaceutical companies poured profits back into R & D. Doctors always made a better than average living, no one minded. Now everything has become a form of security to be traded in the form of stocks. There are dividends to be paid, CEO's, advertising, etc. When these expenses didn't exist we had excellent health care and just about everybody could afford it. The actual cost of care is not the problem, it's the need to be part of Corporate America that causes costs to get out of control. Caring for the sick is not quite the same as making a better computer chip. Someone with a pre-existing condition is not a major liability to the Insurance Company, it's the outrageous salaries and perks and the cost of doing business like a corporaton that breaks the bank. Maybe it's time to realize that caring for the sick has its rewards, but if it's big money you're after perhaps you've chosen the wrong business. If most of the changes Obama has suggested manage to pass, many people will be making less money. That's one way to get the money we're all wondering about. No one has to retire on millions of dollars. The Health Insurance Ivory Tower is no different from the one on Wall St. Humility is the order of the day. ANNA

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Single Payer
Posted by: marsmath on Sep 28, 2009 9:13 AM   
Current rating: 4    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
President Obama says that if we were stating from scratch, then single payer would be the only way to go.

So, START FROM SCRATCH!

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» RE: Single Payer Posted by: susanhathaway

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hEALTHCARE REFORM OFFERS NATION INVESTMENT OPPORTUNITY
Posted by: Gadema on Sep 28, 2009 9:21 AM   
Current rating: 1    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
The Exponential growth in the Internet Traffic Requires the Implementation of a Next Generation National Network Transport Infrastructure, using Ethernet throughout the National Networks, that will Inter-connect all Optical Islands.

For decades, Microsoft's Desktop Applications have Increased Productivity, Efficiency, and Cost Savings in the Work Place.

Proper Deployment of Health Information Technology Solutions, and Training can Increased Productivity, Efficiency, and Cost Savings of around 20-30% of our National Healthcare Expenditures.

This Investment is like the Investments in the past in the National Transportation Inter-State Highways.

We can start by Implementing a pure Packet-based, All Optical/IP, Multi-Service National Network Transport Infrastructure, using Ethernet throughout the National Networks.

The Benefits of such National Networks is that it can Serve as a Business Driver for: e-Healthcare, e-Commerce, e-Education, Energy Systems, Transportation Systems, Social Networking, Entertainment, etc.

Please See: www.gkquoquoi.blogspot.com for Summary Deployment Plan of the Nationwide Health Information Network (NHIN).

Gadema Korboi Quoquoi
President & CEO
COMPULINE INTERNATIONAL, INC.

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Interesting How Corporations Dismantled The Public Option
Posted by: Ross Wolf on Sep 28, 2009 9:51 AM   
Current rating: 4    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
It has been interesting to observe how corporations dismantled the Public Option for Health Insurance: Sen. Baucus Health Bill now mandates, health insurance companies provide medical coverage for Citizens with preexisting conditions, but then fails to clarify if the insurance has to be affordable: Americans with preexisting conditions that cannot afford health insurance, may be forced to Pay Opt-Out penalties that subsidize insurance for others. Americans that own property like a home may not be considered poor for government subsidized health insurance premiums despite not having money to buy health insurance after paying their home mortgage: they could be forced to pay Opt-Out Penalties. The Baucus Bill targets the middle class for higher and higher charges to subsidize poor persons that own nothing.

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Sad
Posted by: wzsteen on Sep 28, 2009 10:44 AM   
Current rating: 1    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Wow that sure is sad isnt it? I mean really.

RT
Online Anonymity when it Counts

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Quibble
Posted by: susanhathaway on Sep 28, 2009 11:54 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
There is no such word as "preventative." The word you want is "preventive."

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How to reduce health care costs
Posted by: grammasanity on Sep 28, 2009 12:50 PM   
Current rating: 2    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Back in the 70's, I gave birth to three children, two boys and a girl. The first 'delivery' was in Long Beach, CA, where a regular obstetrician charged $600 for prenatal care and a home birth attended by him and his nurse. The other two were born using the midwife service based out of the County hospital in Minneapolis. During my first pregnancy, we went from being vegetarian to vegan, after visiting Alta Dena Dairy. When we returned to MN, we shopped at food coops, bought milk right off the farm (goat or cow), after we went back to being regular vegetarians when I was both pregnant and still nursing, ate very low on the food chain. I learned about herbs. We grew our own vegetables. I learned to make tofu and tempeh (you couldn't buy it then). We ate honey, not sugar. My oldest didn't taste sugar or dairy until his second birthday, and is not and has never been a sugar addict. My second had rice pudding as his first food, and has had a mucus problem ever since. I did not use tobacco, alcohol, coffee or sugar during the 7 years I was pregnant or nursing or both. Or anything else, like ganja, either. I nursed each of my children at least 2 years. We spent as much time as possible outdoors.
The result: Aside from immunizations, we took our kids to the doctor a total of 4 times. Once for an ear infection, once for a 'pulled elbow' from roughhousing (that was a chiropractor), once for stepping on a nail that went through his foot, and once for equine encephalitis, that put my daughter in the hospital for 9 days and nearly killed her.
We did have insurance for some of those occurrences, but even if we hadn't, I doubt we would have paid altogether, for three childbirths, a tubal ligation, and the accidents and illnesses mentioned above, as much as most families pay for insurance alone, over the same period.
If you start out healthy, you stay healthy. Public health clinics can and should deal with immunizations, prenatal care, well-child care and primary care for nearly everyone, at a cost way below private physicians and dispersed health plans. After age 5, most people stay well, if they take care of themselves, which everyone, really has a responsibility to at least ATTEMPT to do. After our children are mostly grown, health care needs for previously healthy adults gradually change to orthopedic, body-mass and mood management.
Eating natural foods and living a simpler life with awareness of body mechanics enables us to stay healthy far longer than our parents and grandparents mostly did. We sabotage ourselves by carrying too much weight, consuming empty calories in sweets and liquor and bread, smoking, and not moving our bodies or pushing them beyond their biological limits.
My folks, with 4 kids, in the 50's, had 1000 dollar deductable health insurance. You gotta have something for emergencies, but staying healthy in the first place is practically free. And I hate to say it, but if it's taking a fortune to keep you alive, and you are done with what you came to do, why bother? Living wills, everyone.

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BOTH IMMORAL AND ECONOMICALLY UNSUSTAINABLE
Posted by: drricklippin on Sep 28, 2009 1:00 PM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
WHY ARE WE FAILING?-Because we are a for profit disease care system which is both-

-immoral- "basic health care should not be for sale"

-the economic incentives are mostly perverse to reward high-tech-high-cost treatment based medicine which is NOT economically sustainable

-finally we need to grow up and overcome our irrational fear of death which the best of bio-medicine will never "beat".

Dr. Rick Lippin
Southampton,Pa
see my blog

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Instead of focusing on money, why not focus straight on the quality of health care services?
Posted by: JenniferBedingfield on Sep 28, 2009 1:04 PM   
Current rating: 4    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
We are used to a system that is used to putting quantity over quality. The rising insurance premiums and the lack of actual coverage in those insurance policies, medicine getting costly and yet worse in quality, rising medical errors from doctors, nurses, and bad equipment, etc ... all adds up. If all one wants to do is just sell sell sell, then one cannot avoid the hidden costs such as long term damage to people's health which will cause rise in health care costs. Someone earlier talked about lack of proper education for doctors and nurses. That is true but let us add lack of dedication to the costs. Finally, modern medicine itself is prone to more errors because everything is so mass-produced and even all the six sigma whatever to reduce likelyhood of errors isn't holding water. There needs to be a total decentralization and localization of providing insurance and prescription drugs. In other words, small and local businesses for insurance and prescription drugs to lower the prices. The corporate consolidation and privatization of health care is unsustainable. Another thing that is needed is for insurance companies to cover alternative practitioners and homeopathy which will first involve reforming FDA and/or DEA regulations.

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Further fragmentation...
Posted by: RON_KING on Sep 28, 2009 2:11 PM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Our healthcare "system" is further fragmented by separating out dental and vision care from all other medical treatments. Dental should be a branch of Orthopedics and vision should all be under Ophthalmology. Instead you have Dentists (who often make more than MD's) with separate insurance programs as an "option" and vision care dedicated to selling prosthetic devices with thier own "optional" insurance package.

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Liar! The World Health Organization does NOT rank the US 37th.
Posted by: rickiey on Sep 28, 2009 2:58 PM   
Current rating: 1    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
In fact, they don't do that sort of ranking at all.

They gave it up, almost a decade ago.

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What you give up going the socialized-medicine way
Posted by: SteveA on Sep 28, 2009 3:24 PM   
Current rating: 1    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
What these promoters of how England and Canada forget to tell you is that only with our freedom of choice system, capitalism, have we developed the world of improvements that only America has given us. You don't have much progress given or new treatments in systems where everyone is working for big brother - just ask the post office. When's the last time a change developed from within the post office that helped the customer?

Imagine asking some board of federales to approve two hundred million to develop & test a new medicine, or invent the first MRI machine.

Before you force everyone into a socialized system, please tell the rest of us how many years back in history you are happy to place us, because that is precisely what you are doing to our kids & grandkids.

THEN, help us decide what things you would have government stop doing because the money to do a lot of things will disappear once gov't becomes your doctor.

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» A balance... Posted by: james108
» Try to hear though Posted by: james108
» RE: Try to hear though Posted by: Benn_Miller
» Living in LA Posted by: clresu
» RE: Living in LA Posted by: Benn_Miller
» RE: Living in LA Posted by: Gripoxen
» RE: Living in LA Posted by: clresu
» RE: Living in LA Posted by: Benn_Miller
» RE: Living in LA Posted by: clresu
» RE: Living in LA Posted by: Benn_Miller
» RE: Living in LA Posted by: clresu
» ish... Posted by: james108

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We know this...
Posted by: james108 on Sep 28, 2009 3:52 PM   
Current rating: 4    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
... but knowing the reason isn't everything...

It's the same reason evaluating single payer isn't "politically feasible. It's the same reason the "reform" commercials are bankrolled by big pharma, and contingent on backroom deals to block any legislation from congress that includes bulk negotiating drug prices down. It's the same reason people pushing for real reform are labeled as against health care and against reform.

Big money controls the public political discussion. It's against the interests of a few rich powerful people. The 6 or so corporations that own most mass media have their own agendas and collude with really rich people who advertise and can offer lots of money to paint the argument. Many people believe the fake argument that republicans are big business and democrats are for the people, and fight with those trying to help with real change by calling them brainwashed radicals.

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Why?
Posted by: Jeanne on Sep 28, 2009 4:57 PM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
In a word: Profit.

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Addiction: Every patient a bionic man
Posted by: dayahka on Sep 28, 2009 6:51 PM   
Current rating: 4    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
While one can agree with just about everything you say, underlying this whole messed up system (and that goes for the entire culture and society) is a pervasive axiom to the effect that all doctors can be Frankensteins, every hospital can be the best, and every patient can be a bionic man or woman--and that as Americans, if it's available, then we should have it, no matter the cost.

Until this ridiculous but all-pervasive axiom is shattered, there can be no effective and efficient and affordable health care system in the country. In effect, it doesn't matter if there is a signed bill or not at the end of the debate because it will not be a resolution of the problems--unless the axiom is questioned and destroyed. And the axiom will not be destroyed short of a catastrophe, because Americans have come to love the idea that they are special and deserve the costliest medicine there is, because to them, expensive is better, no matter the counter evidence. If you're poor and can't afford the best, too bad, it's your fault, you're lazy, no good, whatever.

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I have spoken to several Canadian people personally.
Posted by: Nitestallion on Sep 29, 2009 5:48 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Here is how the answers back have gone: > You yanks have made much of how great your system of governance is, you can't even handle your homeless poor or the medically needy!

I really don't get it you have one of the richest nations on earth at your disposal and yet you downtalk your president. You really haven't a care in the world nor a clew about your superiority.

You mean you really don't have any health care for your aged or middle life folk? I am sorry but that is just not realistic, I think maybe you mis represent your government or you don't understand the way it works.

To me this is the most frightening aspect of our lack of medical care, we have hidden it from the rest of the world: out of shame? Out of not giving a s---t?

There are Veterans out on the street that have not only no home but no medical coverage because they are afraid of being placed in an evaluating hospital and forgotten out of existence. Some of them have escaped to live on the streets rather than be doped to the gills on Haldol, Thorazine, Melarill, or stellazine. There are many more of these drugs but anyone who is familiar with them know what they are for and what they do. For those of you who aren’t, these drugs provide chemical (hopefully temporary) lobotomy.
For the rest of us it is beginning to look like this → you say you have no coverage? Hit the door ya bum! And don’t let it slap you on the backside either. THIS is the reality of Barack Obama’s health care package! The Working Poor and the unemployed poor voted for this man because they didn’t want to lose health care. And not only has he not provided it he has let the criminal that gave the money to his big business buddies go scot free without impeachment!

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We need Single Payer Health Care, like we need Public Toilets
Posted by: kettleblack on Sep 29, 2009 9:30 AM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
The two things that would make life civilized.

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The title is a bit misleading.
Posted by: Lurker on Sep 29, 2009 1:58 PM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Your opinion depends on your perspective. The system may appear to be a badly broken abomination of a health care system if you're a plain individual citizen.

But then the health care system was never meant to help you or serve your needs. It has always been for the purpose of returning profit to investors.

In that it has succeeded admirably. If you are an investor then everything is peachy in the health care biz. And, if Baucus' Corporate Parasite Protection and Indemnification Act passes, it will soon be much, much, much better.

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super evil super power super wealth = super health/synthethisis
Posted by: wolvedrive on Sep 29, 2009 6:36 PM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
yup, it aln't easy being a super HERO 24/7,better call in the replacements,oreintal,hispanic i don't care,i'm going fast , on them hot rod rails to whateversz cheapest,clear the line ,coming in with a full load of liquid maganite,here have some it's gOOd fir ya

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yes america medical system is capitalist..duh
Posted by: jejer on Sep 29, 2009 9:25 PM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Americans exercise little and eat big

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the system works:
Posted by: richholland on Sep 30, 2009 2:36 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
in history we had the English Empire:
a small bunch of rich aristos and many poor, fighting and dying to make the Rich more Rich.

The Superrich in USA learned;
to control the mob, be sure the health is louzy, wrong food give them FEAR and tell them they are superior to anybodyelse in the World.

Gave them alcohol, drugs in any form. Soon they want more drugs (legalise marihuana)
They love it to be slaves...

If other countries are more relaxed send preachers to tell them how BAD they are ...
Give them Hell.

And keep the upper upper 10.000 families satisfied, because EVERBODY else is a looser and only good enough to SERVE you.
Good night.

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THE HC PLAN U CAN'T HAVE
Posted by: reelman on Sep 30, 2009 10:22 AM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
THE HC PLAN U CAN’T GET (congress has)

Ever wonder why people spend a million to get a job paying under $175k? Our arrogant congressional royalty…you know, the one that raises its own pay in a severe recession and lusts only for 40 years in the D.C. power bubble, that royalty.
Ever realized their health care coverage WE pay for with taxes?
According to the May 2009 CR…

this is what they have in their FEDERAL Employees Health Benefits Program:

1…No annual or lifetime limits for major services
2…$300 deductible per person and $600 per family
3…Limited 5k a year they pay with preferred providers (which includes most deductibles, co-insurance and co-pays)

Covered Services are:
1…In and out-patient care, visits, surgery and mental health care
2…Prescriptions and diagnostic tests
3…Preventative care including routine shots
4…Chem and radiation therapy
5…Family Planning and organ-tissue transplants
6…Durable med equip and artificial limbs
7…Physical, occupational and speech therapy

They pay $152 a MONTH each or $357 a FAMILY.
Okay, take out your family policy and compare.
The folks that “understand” your family struggles have this program.
The feds are special, you and your family are not.
Ask yourself why we can’t have the same coverage.
They are exempted from any new gov-meant Plan too.

http://conservablogs.com/theconservativecrawfish

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Continental Newstime
Posted by: Continental Newstime on Sep 30, 2009 7:03 PM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Point-Counterpoint on "Counting the Votes"

It's not necessary to count past one "vote," that of Clinton-appointed, Democratic judicial appointee Ann Aiken(Oregon District), who has consistently blocked equal health protection for uninsured taxpayers since 2001, while her political party has raised tens and hundreds of millions of dollars in campaign funds on the promise of health-care reform by a future Democratic Administration.

Suggest to your own Democratic judicial appointee, relative to the judicial-misconduct complaint filed against her, that she take "corrective action" now under Rule 11(d) of the Rules of the Judicial Conference of the U.S. on Judicial-Conduct Proceedings, to acknowledge and remedy the problems raised by the complaint; that is, satisfying the uninsured taxpayer's claim for equal health protection under the Fourteenth Amendment and genuinely-public coverage under the Fifth Amendment's public-purpose doctrine.

Contact the House and/or Senate Judiciary Committee, to complain that this Democratic judicial appointee has failed in her official duty to protect Constitutional rights and has politicized her courtroom.

Charles Hampton Savage/Editorial Columnist
Continental Features/
Continental News Service, Inc.
_______________________________________________

Subject : BREAKING: They're counting votes right now

Date : Wed, 30 Sep 2009 13:14:12 -0500 (CDT)
From : "Charles Chamberlain, Democracy for America"

To : continentalnewstime@lycos.com

DFA Member -

The Washington D.C. insider, The Hill, reports congressional leaders representing the Progressive, Black, Latino, Asian and Pacific Islander Caucuses are polling every single House Democrat right now to see how many votes they have for a robust public option -- not just any version of a public option, the strongest most robust version with rates tied to Medicare.

It's critical that the House pass the strongest public option possible, not just because it's good policy. It will also give House leaders important extra leverage when House and Senate bills are merged during conference committee before a final bill gets a full vote.

We need to call our members of Congress today -- RIGHT NOW.

Congressional Switchboard
(202) 224-3121

Please report your call here: www.DemocracyforAmerica.com/CaucusCalls

http://dfa2.convio.net/site/R?i=4YjEu8eB9LDl4LBOYXGB3g..

Don't sit these calls out because you've called before. Whether your Representative is on our side or not, they need to hear from you today. They need to know your still counting on them to pass the strongest most robust public option possible.

Please call right now. Thank you for everything you do.

-Charles

Charles Chamberlain, Political Director
Democracy for America

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Excellent explanation
Posted by: cowalker on Oct 1, 2009 12:12 PM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
It would be so great to hear this kind of logical analysis from political figures. We'll hear that kind of talk from politicians about the time I look out the window and see a flock of Poland Chinas winging their way across the parking lot.

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~AMERICAN HEALTH*CARE SATANIC VERSES KEEP 45 MILLION POOR AMERICANS IN 3rd WORLD HEALTH CONDITIONS ~
Posted by: DOUGLASFIELD on Oct 1, 2009 4:43 PM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
THE WORLDS BILLIONAIRES AND THEIR FRONT CORPORATIONS SHOULD ALL GET ON BOARD THE NEW HEALTH~TRAIN OF $$$. **ADDING 45 MILLION MORE AMERICAN CITIZENS TO THE CURRENT GIVEN PROFIT MARGINS + WITH A (new) FUTURE AMNESTY PROGRAM 6 months AFTER OUR NEXT U.S. PRESIDENTIAL ELECTION = $$$$$$$$$.........

WEALTH~CARE FOR ALL THE HEAVILY INVESTED INTERNATIONAL AND AMERICAN BILLIONAIRES IN THE CURRENT U.S.HEALTH FOR THE WEALTHY ONLY SYSTEM WILL NOT END ANYTIME SOON... IT WILL ONLY BE RE~ARRANGED TO MAKE SURE ALL THESE MEGA CAPITALISTS PROSPER IN JUST ANOTHER FASHION .

THE FINE ART OF DENYING 45 MILLION AMERICANS HEALTH~CARE IN OUR JUDEO~CHRISTIAN NATION IS NOT RACIST AT ALL... IT'S JUST OUR BEHIND THE SCENE WEALTHY ELITE CITIZENS USING THEIR TREMENDOUS WEALTH TO DIRECTLY INFLUENCE OUR U.S. CONGRESSIONAL REPRESENTATIVES IN KEEPING ALL THE little poor folk down *

AMERICAN RELIGIOUS LEADERS ALL ACROSS THE USA HAVE ALWAYS BEEN ABLE TO COUNT ON THEIR RELIGIOUS FLOCK TO CONTRIBUTE(TITHE)THEIR HARD EARNED MONIES TO THEIR MINISTRIES EVERY WEEK.

THE MAJORITY OF AMERICANS ATTENDING RELIGIOUS SERVICES IN THE U.S. ARE MIDDLE~CLASS AND WORKING POOR CITIZENS WHO NOW DESPERATELY NEED THE HELP AND SUPPORT FROM THESE SAME U.S.RELIGIOUS LEADERS IN LOBBYING THE U.S.CONGRESS TO PROVIDE PROPER HEALTH~CARE FOR ALL POORER AMERICANS.

***THERE ARE CURRENTLY AN ESTIMASTED 45 MILLION MEN WOMAN AND CHILDREN WITHOUT HEALTH~CARE IN THE WEALTHIEST COUNTRY IN THE WORLD????

SILENT AMERICAN RELIGIOUS LEADERS WHO ALL HAVE HEALTH~CARE FOR THEMSELVES AND THEIR FAMILIES IS MUCH MORE FRIGHTENING THEN THE POSSIBLE DENIAL OF A FUTURE HEALTH~CARE PLAN FOR ALL...

**45,OOO AMERICANS DIE EACH YEAR IN THE WEALTHIEST COUNTRY IN THE WORLD DIRECTLY RELATED TO THEIR LACK OF PROPER HEALTH*CARE ??

LAWYERS FOR POOR AMERICANS
(424-247-2013)

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Republithugs want to KILL pregnant women!
Posted by: weslen1 on Oct 3, 2009 7:37 PM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Grassley's FACE should be plastered all over the tv and web, the clip should be on every sight available of him stating, straight UP that he DOES NOT WANT MATERNITY CARE included in the health care bill because HE doesn't need it. SHOW that SOB UP for the two faced, hypocrite he is. Even IF he was willing, which he is NOT, to vote for ANY health reform, he would EXCLUDE every FEMALE in this COUNTRY of child bearing AGE. He would LEAVE pregnant WOMEN to fend for themselves when LABOR starts, let alone if the pregnancy goes WRONG!
And the ONLY ONE with the GUTS to comment back was Senator Stabenaw. She told him his MOTHER might have needed it. Then he even made it WORSE by stating that was over 60 years ago. So I guess that means HIS MOTHER was the ONLY MOTHER who deserved maternity care and that after HIS ROYAL low life SELF was born, no other birth was worth talking about.
I have to say that this kind of ignorance from elected officials just makes me sick. Those people are supposed to work for ALL the people but the entire Republithug side and the fake Democrats have the notion that THE PEOPLE ELECTED THEM TO MAKE AS MUCH MONEY AS THEY CAN SQUEEZE OUT OF LOBBYISTS AND CORPORATE CEOs AS IS POSSIBLE BEFORE they are finally voted out and go on living on the PUBLIC DOLE for the rest of their lives with their PERMANENT free health care and life long pensions EVEN IF THEY ONLY STAYED IN OFFICE FOR A DAY. Every YEAR they vote themselves thousands in pay increases, not to mention increasing their expense accounts and going ON OUR DIME on foreign jaunts to INTERFERE with NATIONAL SECURITY MATTERS. Then they scream and cry and wring their hands over FIFTEEN CENTS increase in MINIMUM WAGE, falling all over themselves to kiss the feet of their corporate GODS.
It makes me sick that a true Democrat would even CONSIDER begging the Republithug, woman hating slime for ONE VOTE for the PEOPLE.
If, as Baucus said, over and over, "Sen. Grassley (among others) is a "good" friend of mine" then they both need to resign and let the PEOPLE have REAL representatives in OUR government.

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Excellent article that sums up the problems. Now about that last sentence.
Posted by: maxpayne on Sep 28, 2009 12:35 AM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
"Next: We'll take a look at why it's been nearly impossible to reform."

It's not too hard to determine what's stopping reform. In addition to Big Insurance and Big Pharma, the medical world is more complicated than one thinks.

From an earlier article that discussed medical errors being made by doctors, nurses, and the medical equipment itself, I don't know how single payer health care will address that part.

Another reason reform is unlikely to happen is that people are not being rewarded for doing their part on keeping healthy on their own as best as possible. Instead, despite the higher costs of making processed junk food over healthy produce, the junk food is artificially "low" in price compared to the healthy foods. Since the costs of living are going up, people will resort desperately to cutting corners even if that includes resorting to junk food everyday. There needs to be cooperation from more people.

Perhaps health care reform will not be one reform but reform on each of the various major factors that go into making health care in America too costly to afford.

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» lots of truth Posted by: james108
» RE: lots of truth Posted by: maxpayne
» fine line Posted by: james108
» RE: fine line Posted by: maxpayne

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Comparing it to art work...
Posted by: cordas on Sep 28, 2009 1:05 AM   
Current rating: 4    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Surely the most apt piece of artwork would be The Scream.

From this side of the pond I just have to laugh at America and its insanity, because to do anything else would be to risk insanity for myself.

The only way it will be successfully reformed is if someone just bulldozes all the complaints. When Bevan set out to create the NHS here post WW2 he did just that, telling Doctors that they could either join up or loose the rights to practice full stop, end of debate, someone needs to do the same to your health care providers, either they get on board with complete reform or they don't and they go out of business.

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Order In The Court
Posted by: johnwinthrop on Sep 28, 2009 3:10 AM   
Current rating: 2    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Total systematic reform to cure the basic problems the author details so well is impossible, given the stranglehold of lobbyists on our corrupt Congress and President. Perhaps at least we can stop the tort racket by lawyers against doctors? Oh I forgot. The trial lawyers are one of the biggest, if not biggest, contributors to the pure as snow Democrats.

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» Med-Mal canard Posted by: brunowe

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An experiment in incontinent capitalism
Posted by: Perry Logan on Sep 28, 2009 3:09 AM   
Current rating: 4    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
I have a simpler, more global explanation: America used capitalism to run its health-care system, and capitalism will destroy anything it touches.

Somewhere along the line, America decided that Merchants are the super-race and the free market system is perfect. (Merchant types have egos the size of the Queen Mary.) We have gone on--especially in the last 30 years--to rig the system entirely for the capitalists.

That's why the system has imploded.

Note that the only solutions to our health-care crisis are the non-capitalistic ones. A child can see that the various capitalist solutions to our health-care system are the ones that will cost a lot and not work.

The same principle--that capitalism sucks--applies across the board, 100%. If you turn something over to the Merchant class, they will destroy it.

Super-race, indeed. We let capitalism run our media...and now you can't believe a word you hear on the media. We let capitalism play the major role in our goverment--and now we probably have the most laughably dysfunctional government in the developed world.

Since 2001, we even started letting capitalists write our environmental laws, and now the air and water are fetid. Once again, you can walk across Lake Eerie.

Fun fact: Sen. Obama voted for the Cheney energy bill. Obama may be the last guy in the woprld who falls for this neocon garbage.

We run our school on capitalist principles...and we have the worst schools in the world.

As a futher experiment on the effects of capitalism on public policy, Texas runs its schools on even more strongly capitalist-libertarian principles; so Texas has the worst schools in the U.S., which has the worst schools in the world. Go capitalists!)

More capitalist triumphs: Reagan released the beast of free enterprise--and money started hemorrhaging out of the country.

Did you know Reaganomics was supposed to pay off the deficit? Shows you how low IQs were in the 1980s.

America let private contractors run the Iraq occupation--part of a reason the whole thing is a cosmic botch, with record-shattering costs, inefficiency., unaccountability, and tragedy.

The recent history of the United States is the history of letting Merchants run amok. They quickly looted the Treasury and sold the country to China. All in all, it was the stupidest political experiemnt in the history of the world. It is still uncertain whether America will survive.

"Merchants have no country. The mere spot they stand on does not constitute so strong an attachment as that from which they draw their gains. I hope we shall crush in its birth the aristocracy of our monied corporations which dare already to challenge our government to a trial by strength, and bid defiance to the laws of our country."
- Thomas Jefferson

PS: Still a bit Sad.

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Good article, two caveats
Posted by: kip sullivan on Sep 28, 2009 4:22 AM   
Current rating: 4    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
The main message of this article is absolutely correct. I offer two caveats.

First, the discussion about prevention needed one more paragraph -- a paragraph warning readers that most preventive services do not save money. The main reason this is so is that preventive services, by definition, have to be given to millions of people with no discernable signs of disease, the vast majority of whom would not have gotten sick. Moreover, many preventive services trigger more services (for example, a mammogram that finds a tumor triggers biopsies, surgery, radiation, chemo etc.), and some of these services induce diseases that require still more services (for example, cancer treatment can induce depression and bone loss).

For documentation of the statement that prevention does not save money, please see either Joshua T. Cohen et al., "Does preventive care save money?" New Eng J Med 2008;35(7):661-663), or visit the website of Partnership for Prevention, an emphatically mainstream outfit.

Second, we cannot treat malpractice costs as a factor explaining why US health care costs are twice those of the rest of the industrialized world on a per capita basis. Total spending on malpractice costs (premiums for liability insurance that providers pay, plus defensive medicine) come to no more than two or three percent of total health care spending in the US. Anything that accounts for 2-3% of total spending cannot be treated as a significant cause of health care costs or inflation. Moreover, even the most enthusiastic proponents of malpractice reform admit that it would probably cut no more than a half percentage point off that 2-3-percent total.

Kip Sullivan

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It's simple
Posted by: weightman on Sep 28, 2009 4:50 AM   
Current rating: 4    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Here's some language the average person might understand.

The healthcare system is dysfunctional because the insurance and drug companies have screwed it up. They've screwed it up so badly, 20-40,000 die every year.

Healthcare legislation proves impossible to reform because half of the premiums collected by insurance companies go to line the pockets of executives, lobbyists and politicians. Reform is the last thing they want.

For true reform, the only answer is to extend Medicare to all, temporarily. Remove the private sector from the equation, abate the crisis, initiate reform, establish oversight, and then reintroduce a tightly regulated private sector. We wouldn't want to deprive ourselves of the innovation and entrepreneurship the free market provides.

One Group. One Plan. One Payer.
It's that simple.

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HELL CARE
Posted by: Tom Degan on Sep 28, 2009 4:54 AM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
To listen to Sarah Palin and the bloviators on the right put it, Canadians and Europeans despise their health care system. Oh, really? My brother Pete has lived in Toronto for a decade. "Not true", says he. Brother Jeff has lived in Europe for almost twenty years. "Not true", says he. He went into a little more detail exclusively for you lucky Rant readers. Like his older brother, he's a tad long-winded. In Jeff Degan's own words:

"As an American who has been living in Europe for most of the last 20 years, one who has visited doctors numerous times in four different countries, whose two children were brought into this world in European hospitals (France and England), who has himself spent a week in a public British hospital, and who underwent an operation in a private British clinic, I think I can say a thing or two about health care in Europe.

"Our out of pocket expenses for the births? Zero. Even though in France my wife spent 5 days in the hospital after the birth of our first daughter, which is standard by the way.

"During the three years we lived in England, we never once paid for medicine for our children. Children get drugs for free in the UK. Visits to the GP are free for everybody.

"My expenses for the week in the NHS hospital? Zero.

"The cost of the operation in the private clinic? Zero, it was covered by my work insurance, as was the post-op physical therapy I needed.

"In Western Europe you would never be forced to sell your home in order to pay for your medical bills, as happens all too often in America when catastrophic illness strikes and the insurance company decides that your condition was 'pre-existing'.

"The quality of the care? Mostly good. French hospitals are excellent, even the food is decent. The food at the NHS hospital was beyond awful, but then again most English food is pretty bad (though they do have great Indian food). At night, they were understaffed, but I am guessing that, apart from that place where Dr. House works, most American hospitals are understaffed at night, too.

"In short, in the US, you pay more, get less, and die younger than we do in Europe. What part of that don't you understand?

"My fellow Americans, you have nothing to fear except those who would use fear to keep you enslaved to the myth of the might of the American health care system."

Jeff Degan

What can I tell you? The guy is a Communist. Not only does he live in France, he actually likes it there. An eternal shame to the good name of the Degan family. Let us boil down his seven paragraphs to their juicy essentials, shall we?

HEALTH CARE IN THIS COUNTRY SUCKS.

Here is (Excuse me, I meant to say, "Here was") a golden opportunity for real reform and the idiotic Americans are screaming about socialism. Is it any wonder that we have become the laughingstock of the Western world?

America the Pitiful

Tom Degan

Goshen, NY

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» RE: HELL CARE Posted by: garcam123
» No free ride Posted by: johnwinthrop
» RE: No free ride Posted by: Gripoxen
» RE: HELL CARE Posted by: Zeugitai

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Remote Health Care
Posted by: femtobeam on Sep 28, 2009 4:58 AM   
Current rating: 2    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Preventative Health Care is done with communications technology. It involves embedded devices and biofeedback, mostly from the brain of a person to determine what they are feeling, experiencing and thinking. It is 2 way interactive.

This can either be a way to eliminate medicines and provide a great helpful way for people to live productive lives or it can be a mind control and social engineering nightmare.

If these systems are not automated in accordance with the Constitution and upholding individual human rights, we will be in real bad shape.

The health care industry shows no signs of giving up its profits at the expense of real health in America, it is just adding profits in services that could be automated while providing a huge profit to mostly Asian manufacturers of communications equipment. Of course, the equipment and what it is used for is unknown at this time.

With laws the way they are now, the Telcos and distribution carriers can do what they want to computers. What will they do to your pacemaker? Slow it down?

The potential for abuse is very high. A Conficker Botnet to your brain or worse, a repeating advertisement slogan are the mild potential problems. Stealing your bank codes, looking into the sex life of girls for interactivity, and even rape and murder are possible by remote.

This is one of those areas that we cannot afford to be naïve about or get it wrong. There is also the fact that information has already been stolen from people. What will happen to it or because of it? There was never any way to deal with it because of privacy laws which are really just loopholes for criminals.

We need an automated system that protects our individual human rights and does not allow subjective judgments to enter into the psyche of our people.

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Warning: U.S. Military health care is socialism!
Posted by: taxidriver on Sep 28, 2009 5:21 AM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
If you're in the U.S. military, you get free health care provided by the government. If government-provided health care is good enough for "America's heroes," why isn't it good enough for the rest of us?

Also if you're in the military, your housing is also provided. Talk about socialism!

We have a "socialized" military fighting and dying to defend capitalism. Talk about Frankenstein's monster!

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One more thought
Posted by: Tom Degan on Sep 28, 2009 5:37 AM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Here is an e-mail I received recently from a man in Canada:

Here’s a very recent example of the terrible socialist Canadian Health care system….

My son-in-law last night went to the Hospital with what was apparently a hernia problem. He was visited and sent this morning to a specialist Hernia Center (Shouldice Hospital).

Following this morning’s visit by the specialist he was told that it isn’t critical, and is scheduled for surgery August 25, in 17 days. Had it been severe they would have operated on him urgently.

Cost to him for these visits (Hospital visit, specialist, family doctor) and for operation is still zero.

Below are two articles you might find interesting


http://www.commondreams.org/view/2009/06/07-0

America The Pitiful

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Brother Jeff's words, emboldened....
Posted by: Tom Degan on Sep 28, 2009 5:39 AM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
"As an American who has been living in Europe for most of the last 20 years, one who has visited doctors numerous times in four different countries, whose two children were brought into this world in European hospitals (France and England), who has himself spent a week in a public British hospital, and who underwent an operation in a private British clinic, I think I can say a thing or two about health care in Europe.

"Our out of pocket expenses for the births? Zero. Even though in France my wife spent 5 days in the hospital after the birth of our first daughter, which is standard by the way.

"During the three years we lived in England, we never once paid for medicine for our children. Children get drugs for free in the UK. Visits to the GP are free for everybody.

"My expenses for the week in the NHS hospital? Zero.

"The cost of the operation in the private clinic? Zero, it was covered by my work insurance, as was the post-op physical therapy I needed.

"In Western Europe you would never be forced to sell your home in order to pay for your medical bills, as happens all too often in America when catastrophic illness strikes and the insurance company decides that your condition was 'pre-existing'.

"The quality of the care? Mostly good. French hospitals are excellent, even the food is decent. The food at the NHS hospital was beyond awful, but then again most English food is pretty bad (though they do have great Indian food). At night, they were understaffed, but I am guessing that, apart from that place where Dr. House works, most American hospitals are understaffed at night, too.

"In short, in the US, you pay more, get less, and die younger than we do in Europe. What part of that don't you understand?

"My fellow Americans, you have nothing to fear except those who would use fear to keep you enslaved to the myth of the might of the American health care system."

Jeff Degan

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What You don't Know can kill you
Posted by: Purple Girl on Sep 28, 2009 5:44 AM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Beyond the level of not knowing that you are suffering from a disease, and not knowing what the insurer will really cover,Our Medical community has no idea what it could be facing in Epidemiological terms.
Beyond the personal risks, the financial devasation of a dysfunctional healthcare system we have the risk of not being prepared for the next epidemic/ pandemic. Nor do we have sufficient ways to detect trends which could indicate causative factors which not only contribute to the development but the spread.
Our Healthcare System should not only be where medical services are rendered but where data is collected to be evaluated on Regional, national and International levels.
If we had better Community Public Health focus we could have gotten ahead of AIDS. Had we been more focused on prevention, would the deadly Infection MRSA be as rampant as it is now in our hosptials,and nursing homes? If we could focus on the common factors cancers would we find an resolvable enviromental contributor- like where power stations and residential properties are in proximity to each other?
Our healthcare system is a repository of information which could not only be a reference source for healthcare professionals, but The Worlds people and 'planners'.
A revamped healthcare system would benefit individuals, the community, the nation and the world.

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The Economics of Desperation
Posted by: ProgressiveManiac on Sep 28, 2009 5:59 AM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
A fundamental tenant of capitalism seems to be that people are motivated by only one thing and that is the acquisition of money. For the wealthy, money is like a scorecard to measure success.

Of course everyone knows that this motivation is strongest for people who have the least and in this case it is not money itself that motivates but the things that money can buy, such as food and shelter. However, people who are so desperate that they have no food or shelter do not make very good workers and that creates a problem for the capitalist.

Modern American capitalism has found that access to medical care can make people sufficiently desperate without making them (usually) too weak to work. People hang on to jobs they hate (and seek work they know they will hate), just to get medical insurance. Sometimes this happens even for people who have adequate funds for other aspects of living such as food and shelter.

Conversations with opponents to healthcare reform usually and quickly turn to personal concerns such as how it will affect their own healthcare insurance. This seems to show how effectively they are controlled by the fear of losing what they have, inadequate though it may be. Certainly our healthcare system is inadequate for this country taken as a whole, but it seems as though instances of it are sufficiently good to provoke people to panic at the thought of losing it.

By providing effective motivations, our healthcare system makes very good capitalist sense. However, it is a short-sighted approach with some serious downside. Even from a strictly capitalist standpoint, it is a motivation which inhibits people from taking chances in the market. It keeps people from taking a new job or starting a new business. It is not a motivating factor that encourages true capitalism because it encourages stagnation. It also places a burden on companies that causes them to take their operations to other countries where they will not have to pay directly for the healthcare of their employees.

Most of us know that money is not the only thing that motivates people. People are motivated to do good work, to be appreciated for what they have done, to do interesting things. What has seemed to elude us is some way to keep people motivated and productive without resorting to the coercion of fear. This would seem a worthy objective to reach for, however.

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How to Cut Costs Easily .....
Posted by: jal64 on Sep 28, 2009 6:22 AM   
Current rating: 1    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
It's called TORT REFORM.

Aside from that it's ludicrous to think anything so large as a national health system run by Big Bro will cut overall costs vs GDP. Doubt me? Look at MEDICARE. Originally touted to cost MILLIONS, it now costs BILLIONS and has added TRILLIONS to our UNFUNDED debt obligation going forward. Obama says he will pay up to half by cutting Medicare "waste". If there is really this much waste, why has nobody done anything about it already? Why do we need this boondoggle to fix Medicare?

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» How about Single Payer? Posted by: LStinson1988
» RE: How about Single Payer? Posted by: LStinson1988
» RE: How about Single Payer? Posted by: LStinson1988
» RE: Tort "reform" is a red herring Posted by: LStinson1988
» RE: Tort "reform" is a red herring Posted by: LStinson1988
» RE: How to Cut Costs Easily ..... Posted by: ProgressiveManiac
» RE: How to Cut Costs Easily ..... Posted by: LStinson1988
» RE: How to Cut Costs Easily ..... Posted by: ProgressiveManiac
» Filled to the Brim with Horror Stories Posted by: ProgressiveManiac

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ANNUAL PHYSICAL CHECKUP
Posted by: CLARENCE SWINNEY on Sep 28, 2009 6:46 AM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
My physician works for an Investment Group.

He will not do annual physcials.

He says "they have always been doctors Bread and Butter Income. They are not needed except when conditions suggest it"

cswinney2@triad.rr.com

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» RE: ANNUAL PHYSICAL CHECKUP Posted by: ProgressiveManiac

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DENNIS KUCINICH IS THE ONE
Posted by: smf1403 on Sep 28, 2009 7:06 AM   
Current rating: 4    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
CORDAS ACROSS THE POND:

YOU ARE RIGHT ON. HEALTH CARE IN THIS COUNTRY WILL NOT EXIST FOR ALL PEOPLE UNTIL SOMEONE MAKES IT HAPPEN FOR ALL PEOPLE.

SOMEONE MUST FORCE IT THROUGH "THE SYSTEM" AND LIKE YOU SAID, FOR THOSE HEALTHCARE PROVIDERS THAT DON'T LIKE IT, BYE BYE.

THAT "SOMEONE" IS DENNIS KUCINICH. HE IS THE ONLY VIABLE CANDIDATE FOR PRESIDENT THAT WALKS THE TALK.

PEOPLE: PLEASE, PLEASE SEE THROUGH ALL THE RHETORIC OF THE ELITIST "OBAMAS" WHO WENT TO HARVARD AND SAY ONE THING AND DO ANOTHER.

WHEN WILL WE LEARN?
THE TIME IS NOW.
START SUPPORTING DENNIS KUCINICH WITH YOUR VOICE AND YOUR MONEY.
HE WILL:

END NAFTA, WTO (BRING BACK THE JOBS)
END WAR IN AFGHANISTAN AND IRAQ
END WELFARE FOR RICH (BANK BAILOUTS, INSURANCE MANDATES)
CREATE PEACE DEPARTMENT
CREATE REAL ENVIRONMENTAL REGULATIONS

HE SAID HE WILL GET ALL OF THIS DONE IN HIS FIRST WEEKS IN OFFICE AND HE HAS NOT FAILED US YET.
REMEMBER ALL THE EXECUTIVE ORDERS BUSH PUSHED THROUGH? ANY PRESIDENT HAS THE POWER AND I ENTRUST DENNIS KUCINICH TO ALWAYS DO THE RIGHT THING FOR THE PEOPLE, NOT CORPORATIONS.
PLEASE SUPPORT DENNIS KUCINICH NOW.

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» RE: DENNIS KUCINICH IS THE ONE Posted by: dazzle59
» lex the loser lives up to his name Posted by: pelican beak
» You accept defeat very gracefully. Posted by: pelican beak

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Please, follow the money......
Posted by: Spiritgirl on Sep 28, 2009 7:15 AM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
"The problem with American health care has nothing to do with the quality of our doctors and hospitals and everything to do with how we pay them."

Depending on the area of expertise, Doctors are paid for the procedures they do and the number of patients they see. The insurance industry collects as much as they do because they must pay their CEO's millions! The politicians that refuse to entertain price caps have not only bought the "free-market idealism lies", they are also funded through their PACs by BIG PHRMA and Health Insurance! Not to mention that many of the Lobbyists were part of the government and are now soliciting their old comrades!

This is the revolving door, that must be stopped! Health-care is not a privilege that should only go to the few, it is a right! People shouldn't have to go bankrupt in order to maintain their health! For all of the "ideals and morals" that Americans espouse, the vitriolic arguments against doing what's right fly in the face of that!

Yes, I know - "it will cost too much" - ok, so how about we stop: letting corporations get away with not paying their fare share of taxes (no really) they don't actually pay 35% actually they end up paying less than the "average American", or how about we actually tax the rich - hell even Warren Buffet said he didn't need the last of the Bush Tax Cuts, or how about we stop funding Agri-business, or how about we stop funding the Military-Industrial-Complex, or maybe we stop paying $10Million per day to Israel, or cut off subsidizing Haliburton who haven't really been providing all of those services to our troops, or how about.., well you get the picture! We can afford health-care, we can't afford to continue subsidizing Welfare for the Rich & Corporate at the expense of everyone else!

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THANK YOU DEGAN FAMILY
Posted by: smf1403 on Sep 28, 2009 7:21 AM   
Current rating: 4    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
THANK YOU DEGANS FOR ALL OF YOUR TRUTH-TELLING.

THIS INFORMATION ON REAL LIFE SINGLE-PAYER HEALTH CARE SITUATIONS IS INVALUABLE.

HEALTH CARE IS A BASIC HUMAN RIGHT AS ALL OTHER INDUSTRIALIZED COUNTRIES HAVE REALIZED.

THE ONLY WAY I SEE THE U.S. PROVIDING SINGLE-PAYER HEALTH CARE (NOT HEALTH INSURANCE) FOR ALL IS BY ELECTING DENNIS KUCINICH FOR PRESIDENT.

DENNIS KUCINICH HAS NOT BEEN BOUGHT OUT BY CORPORATIONS AS OBAMA AND THE REST HAVE.
DENNIS KUCINICH WILL GET THIS DONE.

I HAVE FRIENDS, EUROPEAN AND AMERICAN, LIVING IN ENGLAND AND IRELAND THAT HAVE NO PROBLEMS WITH THE HEALTH CARE THERE.

DO NOT LISTEN TO THE GOVERNMENT-OWNED MAINSTREAM MEDIA BRAINWASHING.

AGAIN, SUPPORT DENNIS KUCINICH!

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» RE: THANK YOU DEGAN FAMILY Posted by: dazzle59

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Death paneled...
Posted by: bobtr900 on Sep 28, 2009 7:35 AM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
It's screwed up bercause we have been "death paneled", for profit, by the Repub party and it's satanicly obsessive dedication to the "profit motive" and ONLY their profit motive.

Human values never enter into their equation where the "profit motive" rules everything. If they wanted us to have a national healthcare system we would have had it a long time ago and by now itwould be a smooth running system..

The Repubs are the party of soul-less people,. greed is everything to them.

That is another reason why I do not believe in their constant crying and whining about Pro-life and Family Values. That phrase is another Repub meta-message for greed and a smoke screen for them to do everything for PROFIT and at everyone elses expense. They are brutal and heart-less people.who are always screaming about money and nothing else.

There is something terribly wrong with people who would keep others in slavery for their economic advantage. That is the people who run and/or try destroy this nation. Get in their way and they will kill you. And they will insist it is Pro-life and Family Values!!!..

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How did it get this way?
Posted by: willymack on Sep 28, 2009 8:02 AM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Forget the "America is number one" nonsense, unless you're talking about bullshit.
We got to where we are through a process that's well known AND reversable.
Submitted for your consideration is the child raising analogy:
Provide a personal example for your child. Inculcate in him a concern for his fellow creatures and an enlightened self-interest.
Give him close supervision when and where needed.
Show him how good morals, honesty, and tolerance for others leads to harmonious personal relations and peaceful co-existence.
Fail in any of these catagories, and watch your child become a selfish, obnoxious lout.
Now' take a look at corporate America. They're the neglected and spolied child who has been ignored far too long, and allowed to develop in all the wrong ways. To make matters worse, they ally thamselves with those elected to protect us from them.
To reverse this mess, corporate America must be brought up short, through close supervision, exclusion from any decision making affecting the health and/or welfare of our citizens, and LEGAL action when and where necessary. Crooked politicans should be censured or even ARRESTED for their failure to fulfil their sworn duties, and removed from office, never to return.
Pathological greed and criminal neglect have made a real mess of things, but I think there's still time to set things aright.
Will any of this happen? Not bloody likely.

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Another lobbyist for Big Pharma gets to take Ted Kennedy's place !
Posted by: Benn_Miller on Sep 28, 2009 8:06 AM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]

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More information on Paul Kirk's lobbyist background
Posted by: Benn_Miller on Sep 28, 2009 8:08 AM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
http://centrepointnews.com/?p=3541

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NY Daily News
Posted by: JSquercia on Sep 28, 2009 8:20 AM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Today's NY Dailey news had a GREAT piece by an ER doctor who described treating a woman who had the appearance of a Heart Attack .She had lost her job and therefore her health Insurance
and after several days of pain that showed all the symptoms of a heart attack had finally gone to the ER .THEY ordered various Medical tests to confirm the presence of a Heart attack .She fell asleep and the doctor let her sleep . Fortunately the reports showed that she had not had a heart attack . She was alright but her ER visit would result a bill of $10,000 .

Nothing better illustrates the problem with our health care system than this . This poor woman had previously been a taxpaying member of society with a medical coverage was now FORCED to use the most expensive part of our system as her Primary care Provider and received a bill which she obviously could not pay of $10,000 (god knows WHAT the bill would have been Had she actually had to be treated for a heart attack) .
A thought for all those people who object to paying for others who are without Insurance , the state tacks on an additional percentage of over 10& to bills paid by Insurance . The companies of course pass that cost DIRECTLY on to you .So you ARE paying for those people ANYWAY and allowing them to have Insurance and have a primary care Physician would be cheaper

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» RE: NY Daily News Posted by: aussidawg

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WHEN SICKNESS BECAME PROFITABLE
Posted by: VZEQICVA on Sep 28, 2009 8:26 AM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
That's when everything changed. Hospitals not long ago were non-profit. Pharmaceutical companies poured profits back into R & D. Doctors always made a better than average living, no one minded. Now everything has become a form of security to be traded in the form of stocks. There are dividends to be paid, CEO's, advertising, etc. When these expenses didn't exist we had excellent health care and just about everybody could afford it. The actual cost of care is not the problem, it's the need to be part of Corporate America that causes costs to get out of control. Caring for the sick is not quite the same as making a better computer chip. Someone with a pre-existing condition is not a major liability to the Insurance Company, it's the outrageous salaries and perks and the cost of doing business like a corporaton that breaks the bank. Maybe it's time to realize that caring for the sick has its rewards, but if it's big money you're after perhaps you've chosen the wrong business. If most of the changes Obama has suggested manage to pass, many people will be making less money. That's one way to get the money we're all wondering about. No one has to retire on millions of dollars. The Health Insurance Ivory Tower is no different from the one on Wall St. Humility is the order of the day. ANNA

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Single Payer
Posted by: marsmath on Sep 28, 2009 9:13 AM   
Current rating: 4    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
President Obama says that if we were stating from scratch, then single payer would be the only way to go.

So, START FROM SCRATCH!

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» RE: Single Payer Posted by: susanhathaway

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hEALTHCARE REFORM OFFERS NATION INVESTMENT OPPORTUNITY
Posted by: Gadema on Sep 28, 2009 9:21 AM   
Current rating: 1    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
The Exponential growth in the Internet Traffic Requires the Implementation of a Next Generation National Network Transport Infrastructure, using Ethernet throughout the National Networks, that will Inter-connect all Optical Islands.

For decades, Microsoft's Desktop Applications have Increased Productivity, Efficiency, and Cost Savings in the Work Place.

Proper Deployment of Health Information Technology Solutions, and Training can Increased Productivity, Efficiency, and Cost Savings of around 20-30% of our National Healthcare Expenditures.

This Investment is like the Investments in the past in the National Transportation Inter-State Highways.

We can start by Implementing a pure Packet-based, All Optical/IP, Multi-Service National Network Transport Infrastructure, using Ethernet throughout the National Networks.

The Benefits of such National Networks is that it can Serve as a Business Driver for: e-Healthcare, e-Commerce, e-Education, Energy Systems, Transportation Systems, Social Networking, Entertainment, etc.

Please See: www.gkquoquoi.blogspot.com for Summary Deployment Plan of the Nationwide Health Information Network (NHIN).

Gadema Korboi Quoquoi
President & CEO
COMPULINE INTERNATIONAL, INC.

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Interesting How Corporations Dismantled The Public Option
Posted by: Ross Wolf on Sep 28, 2009 9:51 AM   
Current rating: 4    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
It has been interesting to observe how corporations dismantled the Public Option for Health Insurance: Sen. Baucus Health Bill now mandates, health insurance companies provide medical coverage for Citizens with preexisting conditions, but then fails to clarify if the insurance has to be affordable: Americans with preexisting conditions that cannot afford health insurance, may be forced to Pay Opt-Out penalties that subsidize insurance for others. Americans that own property like a home may not be considered poor for government subsidized health insurance premiums despite not having money to buy health insurance after paying their home mortgage: they could be forced to pay Opt-Out Penalties. The Baucus Bill targets the middle class for higher and higher charges to subsidize poor persons that own nothing.

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Sad
Posted by: wzsteen on Sep 28, 2009 10:44 AM   
Current rating: 1    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Wow that sure is sad isnt it? I mean really.

RT
Online Anonymity when it Counts

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Quibble
Posted by: susanhathaway on Sep 28, 2009 11:54 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
There is no such word as "preventative." The word you want is "preventive."

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How to reduce health care costs
Posted by: grammasanity on Sep 28, 2009 12:50 PM   
Current rating: 2    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Back in the 70's, I gave birth to three children, two boys and a girl. The first 'delivery' was in Long Beach, CA, where a regular obstetrician charged $600 for prenatal care and a home birth attended by him and his nurse. The other two were born using the midwife service based out of the County hospital in Minneapolis. During my first pregnancy, we went from being vegetarian to vegan, after visiting Alta Dena Dairy. When we returned to MN, we shopped at food coops, bought milk right off the farm (goat or cow), after we went back to being regular vegetarians when I was both pregnant and still nursing, ate very low on the food chain. I learned about herbs. We grew our own vegetables. I learned to make tofu and tempeh (you couldn't buy it then). We ate honey, not sugar. My oldest didn't taste sugar or dairy until his second birthday, and is not and has never been a sugar addict. My second had rice pudding as his first food, and has had a mucus problem ever since. I did not use tobacco, alcohol, coffee or sugar during the 7 years I was pregnant or nursing or both. Or anything else, like ganja, either. I nursed each of my children at least 2 years. We spent as much time as possible outdoors.
The result: Aside from immunizations, we took our kids to the doctor a total of 4 times. Once for an ear infection, once for a 'pulled elbow' from roughhousing (that was a chiropractor), once for stepping on a nail that went through his foot, and once for equine encephalitis, that put my daughter in the hospital for 9 days and nearly killed her.
We did have insurance for some of those occurrences, but even if we hadn't, I doubt we would have paid altogether, for three childbirths, a tubal ligation, and the accidents and illnesses mentioned above, as much as most families pay for insurance alone, over the same period.
If you start out healthy, you stay healthy. Public health clinics can and should deal with immunizations, prenatal care, well-child care and primary care for nearly everyone, at a cost way below private physicians and dispersed health plans. After age 5, most people stay well, if they take care of themselves, which everyone, really has a responsibility to at least ATTEMPT to do. After our children are mostly grown, health care needs for previously healthy adults gradually change to orthopedic, body-mass and mood management.
Eating natural foods and living a simpler life with awareness of body mechanics enables us to stay healthy far longer than our parents and grandparents mostly did. We sabotage ourselves by carrying too much weight, consuming empty calories in sweets and liquor and bread, smoking, and not moving our bodies or pushing them beyond their biological limits.
My folks, with 4 kids, in the 50's, had 1000 dollar deductable health insurance. You gotta have something for emergencies, but staying healthy in the first place is practically free. And I hate to say it, but if it's taking a fortune to keep you alive, and you are done with what you came to do, why bother? Living wills, everyone.

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BOTH IMMORAL AND ECONOMICALLY UNSUSTAINABLE
Posted by: drricklippin on Sep 28, 2009 1:00 PM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
WHY ARE WE FAILING?-Because we are a for profit disease care system which is both-

-immoral- "basic health care should not be for sale"

-the economic incentives are mostly perverse to reward high-tech-high-cost treatment based medicine which is NOT economically sustainable

-finally we need to grow up and overcome our irrational fear of death which the best of bio-medicine will never "beat".

Dr. Rick Lippin
Southampton,Pa
see my blog

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Instead of focusing on money, why not focus straight on the quality of health care services?
Posted by: JenniferBedingfield on Sep 28, 2009 1:04 PM   
Current rating: 4    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
We are used to a system that is used to putting quantity over quality. The rising insurance premiums and the lack of actual coverage in those insurance policies, medicine getting costly and yet worse in quality, rising medical errors from doctors, nurses, and bad equipment, etc ... all adds up. If all one wants to do is just sell sell sell, then one cannot avoid the hidden costs such as long term damage to people's health which will cause rise in health care costs. Someone earlier talked about lack of proper education for doctors and nurses. That is true but let us add lack of dedication to the costs. Finally, modern medicine itself is prone to more errors because everything is so mass-produced and even all the six sigma whatever to reduce likelyhood of errors isn't holding water. There needs to be a total decentralization and localization of providing insurance and prescription drugs. In other words, small and local businesses for insurance and prescription drugs to lower the prices. The corporate consolidation and privatization of health care is unsustainable. Another thing that is needed is for insurance companies to cover alternative practitioners and homeopathy which will first involve reforming FDA and/or DEA regulations.

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Further fragmentation...
Posted by: RON_KING on Sep 28, 2009 2:11 PM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Our healthcare "system" is further fragmented by separating out dental and vision care from all other medical treatments. Dental should be a branch of Orthopedics and vision should all be under Ophthalmology. Instead you have Dentists (who often make more than MD's) with separate insurance programs as an "option" and vision care dedicated to selling prosthetic devices with thier own "optional" insurance package.

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Liar! The World Health Organization does NOT rank the US 37th.
Posted by: rickiey on Sep 28, 2009 2:58 PM   
Current rating: 1    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
In fact, they don't do that sort of ranking at all.

They gave it up, almost a decade ago.

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What you give up going the socialized-medicine way
Posted by: SteveA on Sep 28, 2009 3:24 PM   
Current rating: 1    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
What these promoters of how England and Canada forget to tell you is that only with our freedom of choice system, capitalism, have we developed the world of improvements that only America has given us. You don't have much progress given or new treatments in systems where everyone is working for big brother - just ask the post office. When's the last time a change developed from within the post office that helped the customer?

Imagine asking some board of federales to approve two hundred million to develop & test a new medicine, or invent the first MRI machine.

Before you force everyone into a socialized system, please tell the rest of us how many years back in history you are happy to place us, because that is precisely what you are doing to our kids & grandkids.

THEN, help us decide what things you would have government stop doing because the money to do a lot of things will disappear once gov't becomes your doctor.

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» A balance... Posted by: james108
» Try to hear though Posted by: james108
» RE: Try to hear though Posted by: Benn_Miller
» Living in LA Posted by: clresu
» RE: Living in LA Posted by: Benn_Miller
» RE: Living in LA Posted by: Gripoxen
» RE: Living in LA Posted by: clresu
» RE: Living in LA Posted by: Benn_Miller
» RE: Living in LA Posted by: clresu
» RE: Living in LA Posted by: Benn_Miller
» RE: Living in LA Posted by: clresu
» ish... Posted by: james108

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We know this...
Posted by: james108 on Sep 28, 2009 3:52 PM   
Current rating: 4    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
... but knowing the reason isn't everything...

It's the same reason evaluating single payer isn't "politically feasible. It's the same reason the "reform" commercials are bankrolled by big pharma, and contingent on backroom deals to block any legislation from congress that includes bulk negotiating drug prices down. It's the same reason people pushing for real reform are labeled as against health care and against reform.

Big money controls the public political discussion. It's against the interests of a few rich powerful people. The 6 or so corporations that own most mass media have their own agendas and collude with really rich people who advertise and can offer lots of money to paint the argument. Many people believe the fake argument that republicans are big business and democrats are for the people, and fight with those trying to help with real change by calling them brainwashed radicals.

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Why?
Posted by: Jeanne on Sep 28, 2009 4:57 PM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
In a word: Profit.

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Addiction: Every patient a bionic man
Posted by: dayahka on Sep 28, 2009 6:51 PM   
Current rating: 4    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
While one can agree with just about everything you say, underlying this whole messed up system (and that goes for the entire culture and society) is a pervasive axiom to the effect that all doctors can be Frankensteins, every hospital can be the best, and every patient can be a bionic man or woman--and that as Americans, if it's available, then we should have it, no matter the cost.

Until this ridiculous but all-pervasive axiom is shattered, there can be no effective and efficient and affordable health care system in the country. In effect, it doesn't matter if there is a signed bill or not at the end of the debate because it will not be a resolution of the problems--unless the axiom is questioned and destroyed. And the axiom will not be destroyed short of a catastrophe, because Americans have come to love the idea that they are special and deserve the costliest medicine there is, because to them, expensive is better, no matter the counter evidence. If you're poor and can't afford the best, too bad, it's your fault, you're lazy, no good, whatever.

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I have spoken to several Canadian people personally.
Posted by: Nitestallion on Sep 29, 2009 5:48 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Here is how the answers back have gone: > You yanks have made much of how great your system of governance is, you can't even handle your homeless poor or the medically needy!

I really don't get it you have one of the richest nations on earth at your disposal and yet you downtalk your president. You really haven't a care in the world nor a clew about your superiority.

You mean you really don't have any health care for your aged or middle life folk? I am sorry but that is just not realistic, I think maybe you mis represent your government or you don't understand the way it works.

To me this is the most frightening aspect of our lack of medical care, we have hidden it from the rest of the world: out of shame? Out of not giving a s---t?

There are Veterans out on the street that have not only no home but no medical coverage because they are afraid of being placed in an evaluating hospital and forgotten out of existence. Some of them have escaped to live on the streets rather than be doped to the gills on Haldol, Thorazine, Melarill, or stellazine. There are many more of these drugs but anyone who is familiar with them know what they are for and what they do. For those of you who aren’t, these drugs provide chemical (hopefully temporary) lobotomy.
For the rest of us it is beginning to look like this → you say you have no coverage? Hit the door ya bum! And don’t let it slap you on the backside either. THIS is the reality of Barack Obama’s health care package! The Working Poor and the unemployed poor voted for this man because they didn’t want to lose health care. And not only has he not provided it he has let the criminal that gave the money to his big business buddies go scot free without impeachment!

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We need Single Payer Health Care, like we need Public Toilets
Posted by: kettleblack on Sep 29, 2009 9:30 AM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
The two things that would make life civilized.

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The title is a bit misleading.
Posted by: Lurker on Sep 29, 2009 1:58 PM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Your opinion depends on your perspective. The system may appear to be a badly broken abomination of a health care system if you're a plain individual citizen.

But then the health care system was never meant to help you or serve your needs. It has always been for the purpose of returning profit to investors.

In that it has succeeded admirably. If you are an investor then everything is peachy in the health care biz. And, if Baucus' Corporate Parasite Protection and Indemnification Act passes, it will soon be much, much, much better.

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super evil super power super wealth = super health/synthethisis
Posted by: wolvedrive on Sep 29, 2009 6:36 PM   
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yup, it aln't easy being a super HERO 24/7,better call in the replacements,oreintal,hispanic i don't care,i'm going fast , on them hot rod rails to whateversz cheapest,clear the line ,coming in with a full load of liquid maganite,here have some it's gOOd fir ya

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yes america medical system is capitalist..duh
Posted by: jejer on Sep 29, 2009 9:25 PM   
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Americans exercise little and eat big

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the system works:
Posted by: richholland on Sep 30, 2009 2:36 AM   
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in history we had the English Empire:
a small bunch of rich aristos and many poor, fighting and dying to make the Rich more Rich.

The Superrich in USA learned;
to control the mob, be sure the health is louzy, wrong food give them FEAR and tell them they are superior to anybodyelse in the World.

Gave them alcohol, drugs in any form. Soon they want more drugs (legalise marihuana)
They love it to be slaves...

If other countries are more relaxed send preachers to tell them how BAD they are ...
Give them Hell.

And keep the upper upper 10.000 families satisfied, because EVERBODY else is a looser and only good enough to SERVE you.
Good night.

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THE HC PLAN U CAN'T HAVE
Posted by: reelman on Sep 30, 2009 10:22 AM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
THE HC PLAN U CAN’T GET (congress has)

Ever wonder why people spend a million to get a job paying under $175k? Our arrogant congressional royalty…you know, the one that raises its own pay in a severe recession and lusts only for 40 years in the D.C. power bubble, that royalty.
Ever realized their health care coverage WE pay for with taxes?
According to the May 2009 CR…

this is what they have in their FEDERAL Employees Health Benefits Program:

1…No annual or lifetime limits for major services
2…$300 deductible per person and $600 per family
3…Limited 5k a year they pay with preferred providers (which includes most deductibles, co-insurance and co-pays)

Covered Services are:
1…In and out-patient care, visits, surgery and mental health care
2…Prescriptions and diagnostic tests
3…Preventative care including routine shots
4…Chem and radiation therapy
5…Family Planning and organ-tissue transplants
6…Durable med equip and artificial limbs
7…Physical, occupational and speech therapy

They pay $152 a MONTH each or $357 a FAMILY.
Okay, take out your family policy and compare.
The folks that “understand” your family struggles have this program.
The feds are special, you and your family are not.
Ask yourself why we can’t have the same coverage.
They are exempted from any new gov-meant Plan too.

http://conservablogs.com/theconservativecrawfish

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Continental Newstime
Posted by: Continental Newstime on Sep 30, 2009 7:03 PM   
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Point-Counterpoint on "Counting the Votes"

It's not necessary to count past one "vote," that of Clinton-appointed, Democratic judicial appointee Ann Aiken(Oregon District), who has consistently blocked equal health protection for uninsured taxpayers since 2001, while her political party has raised tens and hundreds of millions of dollars in campaign funds on the promise of health-care reform by a future Democratic Administration.

Suggest to your own Democratic judicial appointee, relative to the judicial-misconduct complaint filed against her, that she take "corrective action" now under Rule 11(d) of the Rules of the Judicial Conference of the U.S. on Judicial-Conduct Proceedings, to acknowledge and remedy the problems raised by the complaint; that is, satisfying the uninsured taxpayer's claim for equal health protection under the Fourteenth Amendment and genuinely-public coverage under the Fifth Amendment's public-purpose doctrine.

Contact the House and/or Senate Judiciary Committee, to complain that this Democratic judicial appointee has failed in her official duty to protect Constitutional rights and has politicized her courtroom.

Charles Hampton Savage/Editorial Columnist
Continental Features/
Continental News Service, Inc.
_______________________________________________

Subject : BREAKING: They're counting votes right now

Date : Wed, 30 Sep 2009 13:14:12 -0500 (CDT)
From : "Charles Chamberlain, Democracy for America"

To : continentalnewstime@lycos.com

DFA Member -

The Washington D.C. insider, The Hill, reports congressional leaders representing the Progressive, Black, Latino, Asian and Pacific Islander Caucuses are polling every single House Democrat right now to see how many votes they have for a robust public option -- not just any version of a public option, the strongest most robust version with rates tied to Medicare.

It's critical that the House pass the strongest public option possible, not just because it's good policy. It will also give House leaders important extra leverage when House and Senate bills are merged during conference committee before a final bill gets a full vote.

We need to call our members of Congress today -- RIGHT NOW.

Congressional Switchboard
(202) 224-3121

Please report your call here: www.DemocracyforAmerica.com/CaucusCalls

http://dfa2.convio.net/site/R?i=4YjEu8eB9LDl4LBOYXGB3g..

Don't sit these calls out because you've called before. Whether your Representative is on our side or not, they need to hear from you today. They need to know your still counting on them to pass the strongest most robust public option possible.

Please call right now. Thank you for everything you do.

-Charles

Charles Chamberlain, Political Director
Democracy for America

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Excellent explanation
Posted by: cowalker on Oct 1, 2009 12:12 PM   
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It would be so great to hear this kind of logical analysis from political figures. We'll hear that kind of talk from politicians about the time I look out the window and see a flock of Poland Chinas winging their way across the parking lot.

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~AMERICAN HEALTH*CARE SATANIC VERSES KEEP 45 MILLION POOR AMERICANS IN 3rd WORLD HEALTH CONDITIONS ~
Posted by: DOUGLASFIELD on Oct 1, 2009 4:43 PM   
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THE WORLDS BILLIONAIRES AND THEIR FRONT CORPORATIONS SHOULD ALL GET ON BOARD THE NEW HEALTH~TRAIN OF $$$. **ADDING 45 MILLION MORE AMERICAN CITIZENS TO THE CURRENT GIVEN PROFIT MARGINS + WITH A (new) FUTURE AMNESTY PROGRAM 6 months AFTER OUR NEXT U.S. PRESIDENTIAL ELECTION = $$$$$$$$$.........

WEALTH~CARE FOR ALL THE HEAVILY INVESTED INTERNATIONAL AND AMERICAN BILLIONAIRES IN THE CURRENT U.S.HEALTH FOR THE WEALTHY ONLY SYSTEM WILL NOT END ANYTIME SOON... IT WILL ONLY BE RE~ARRANGED TO MAKE SURE ALL THESE MEGA CAPITALISTS PROSPER IN JUST ANOTHER FASHION .

THE FINE ART OF DENYING 45 MILLION AMERICANS HEALTH~CARE IN OUR JUDEO~CHRISTIAN NATION IS NOT RACIST AT ALL... IT'S JUST OUR BEHIND THE SCENE WEALTHY ELITE CITIZENS USING THEIR TREMENDOUS WEALTH TO DIRECTLY INFLUENCE OUR U.S. CONGRESSIONAL REPRESENTATIVES IN KEEPING ALL THE little poor folk down *

AMERICAN RELIGIOUS LEADERS ALL ACROSS THE USA HAVE ALWAYS BEEN ABLE TO COUNT ON THEIR RELIGIOUS FLOCK TO CONTRIBUTE(TITHE)THEIR HARD EARNED MONIES TO THEIR MINISTRIES EVERY WEEK.

THE MAJORITY OF AMERICANS ATTENDING RELIGIOUS SERVICES IN THE U.S. ARE MIDDLE~CLASS AND WORKING POOR CITIZENS WHO NOW DESPERATELY NEED THE HELP AND SUPPORT FROM THESE SAME U.S.RELIGIOUS LEADERS IN LOBBYING THE U.S.CONGRESS TO PROVIDE PROPER HEALTH~CARE FOR ALL POORER AMERICANS.

***THERE ARE CURRENTLY AN ESTIMASTED 45 MILLION MEN WOMAN AND CHILDREN WITHOUT HEALTH~CARE IN THE WEALTHIEST COUNTRY IN THE WORLD????

SILENT AMERICAN RELIGIOUS LEADERS WHO ALL HAVE HEALTH~CARE FOR THEMSELVES AND THEIR FAMILIES IS MUCH MORE FRIGHTENING THEN THE POSSIBLE DENIAL OF A FUTURE HEALTH~CARE PLAN FOR ALL...

**45,OOO AMERICANS DIE EACH YEAR IN THE WEALTHIEST COUNTRY IN THE WORLD DIRECTLY RELATED TO THEIR LACK OF PROPER HEALTH*CARE ??

LAWYERS FOR POOR AMERICANS
(424-247-2013)

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Republithugs want to KILL pregnant women!
Posted by: weslen1 on Oct 3, 2009 7:37 PM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Grassley's FACE should be plastered all over the tv and web, the clip should be on every sight available of him stating, straight UP that he DOES NOT WANT MATERNITY CARE included in the health care bill because HE doesn't need it. SHOW that SOB UP for the two faced, hypocrite he is. Even IF he was willing, which he is NOT, to vote for ANY health reform, he would EXCLUDE every FEMALE in this COUNTRY of child bearing AGE. He would LEAVE pregnant WOMEN to fend for themselves when LABOR starts, let alone if the pregnancy goes WRONG!
And the ONLY ONE with the GUTS to comment back was Senator Stabenaw. She told him his MOTHER might have needed it. Then he even made it WORSE by stating that was over 60 years ago. So I guess that means HIS MOTHER was the ONLY MOTHER who deserved maternity care and that after HIS ROYAL low life SELF was born, no other birth was worth talking about.
I have to say that this kind of ignorance from elected officials just makes me sick. Those people are supposed to work for ALL the people but the entire Republithug side and the fake Democrats have the notion that THE PEOPLE ELECTED THEM TO MAKE AS MUCH MONEY AS THEY CAN SQUEEZE OUT OF LOBBYISTS AND CORPORATE CEOs AS IS POSSIBLE BEFORE they are finally voted out and go on living on the PUBLIC DOLE for the rest of their lives with their PERMANENT free health care and life long pensions EVEN IF THEY ONLY STAYED IN OFFICE FOR A DAY. Every YEAR they vote themselves thousands in pay increases, not to mention increasing their expense accounts and going ON OUR DIME on foreign jaunts to INTERFERE with NATIONAL SECURITY MATTERS. Then they scream and cry and wring their hands over FIFTEEN CENTS increase in MINIMUM WAGE, falling all over themselves to kiss the feet of their corporate GODS.
It makes me sick that a true Democrat would even CONSIDER begging the Republithug, woman hating slime for ONE VOTE for the PEOPLE.
If, as Baucus said, over and over, "Sen. Grassley (among others) is a "good" friend of mine" then they both need to resign and let the PEOPLE have REAL representatives in OUR government.

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