PERSONAL HEALTH  
comments_imageCOMMENTS: 48

Think Vietnam Vets Were Screwed? Wait Until You See How Many Veterans of Bush's Wars End up in Jail

Far too many soldiers end up behind bars while the rest of us are free to ignore the human evidence of what our military ventures really cost.
September 9, 2009  |  
 
 
 
LIKE THIS ARTICLE ?
Join our mailing list:

Sign up to stay up to date on the latest Personal Health headlines via email.

 
 
Advertisement
 

As all the other justifications for the U.S. invasion of Iraq have fallen by the wayside, it is ironic that the one that remains is "freedom," because in the name of someone else's freedom, we train our own soldiers to behave in ways that may very well cost them their own.

Gordy Lane is a retired Syracuse police detective who served in the Marine Corps during the Vietnam War. As a cop, it was his job to put lawbreakers behind bars, but as a veteran, he understands that when you go to war, "you come back a little different than when you went over there."

"Listen," he says, "you pop up out of a foxhole, and you blow a guy's head open like a watermelon. The other two guys in the foxhole start patting you on the back and saying, 'Good job!' because you just did the worst thing that you can do to another person. How do you translate that into civilian life?"

For far too many soldiers, the simple answer is, you don't.

But with them behind bars and out of sight, most of the rest of us are free to ignore the human evidence of what our military ventures really cost. Even putting issues of compassion and justice aside, any number of alternatives to prison have been shown to save taxpayer money.

For example, the average annual cost of incarceration in New York state in 2008 was $44,000 a year. But a 2009 report by the Legal Action Committee found that for every individual diverted from prison into community-based treatment programs, the state would save between $62,492 and $88,892 a year.

The LAC calculated those savings by subtracting the average cost of treatment (for addiction or mental-health issues) from the cost of incarceration. It turns out to be cheaper, both in the long and the short run, even considering expenditures such as program administration and court supervision, if projected savings in health care, public assistance and future criminal justice involvement is also considered.

With that in mind, as these new wars drag on, and as more and more service members find themselves entangled in the criminal justice system, it seems worth asking, in whose interest is the status quo maintained? Especially when there are more humane and even more rational solutions available.

Jim Strollo, who directs the veterans program at Groveland Prison in New York, has "a group of veterans that meets on Thursday nights that addresses PTSD, among other things.

"But I'm not a trained counselor. We have the Office of Mental Health, but they are not equipped to do a lot of counseling because crisis intervention keeps them so busy. Veteran inmates rely in the counseling of their peers. They do the best they can."

Even 10 years ago, veterans at Groveland and other New York prisons had more support and treatment options than they have today.

Don Little, who coordinated the NYS Department of Correctional Services' Veterans Programs from 1986 until December 2004, when he retired, told me sadly, "We had good results. We made the department look good, and we weren't even spending the state's money. I just don't understand."

Reintegrating Vets into Civilian Life

After the war in Vietnam, when veterans began showing up in the nation's prisons in large numbers, Vietnam Veterans of America was the first organization to respond with rehabilitation programs specifically designed to help returning troops reintegrate into civilian life.

NYDOCS adopted VVA's design and did perhaps the best job of implementing the program.

"We even had the VA involved, " Little says proudly. "They provided trained substance-abuse and PTSD counselors, and the NYS Division of Parole and Department of Labor had signed on as well."

By 1993, NYSDOCS could boast a recidivism rate (five years after release) of 8.9 percent for veterans who had completed the program, compared with 51.6 percent for non-veterans.

In 1999, 19 facilities in NYSDOCS offered veterans programs. Then, for the sake of "efficiency and effectiveness," those programs were consolidated. There are now three. And since the consolidation, program participation no longer counts toward certificates of "earned eligibility," which make an early parole more likely.

"Our program was undermined at the highest levels of the department," Little recalls with bitterness. "They said vets were getting preferential treatment. But I believe they just didn't want it to succeed. Vindictive, that's what it seemed to me."

What happened to those demonstrably successful programs makes no sense in human or even in fiscal terms. But even while various agencies of government appear content to keep veterans behind bars and out of sight, an array of creative and compassionate -- not to mention economically rational -- solutions continue to emerge, put forward by concerned individuals.


Penny Coleman is the widow of a Vietnam War veteran who took his own life after coming home. Her book, Flashback: Posttraumatic Stress Disorder, Suicide and the Lessons of War, was released on Memorial Day 2006. Her Web site is Flashback.
Email
Print
Share
Post on reddit
Post on stumbleupon
Post on facebook
Post on digg
Post on twitter
Post on delicious
LIKED THIS ARTICLE? JOIN OUR EMAIL LIST
Stay up to date with the latest Personal Health headlines via email
See more stories tagged with: veterans


Comments are closed-

I knew so many Vietnam vets who became heroin addicts
Posted by: desidid on Sep 9, 2009 3:11 AM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
they could not deal with what they had to do there. Now those guys were not asked to go 3to 4 times. I can't imagine what we have wrought, but I can tell you, if it is anything like the aftermath of Nam prepare yourselves for some really fucked up people. I'm telling you, I had friends who could be found in the middle of the night looking for "Charlie" with imaginary guns. I know there are several older members on this line who can tell horror stories about what happened to their friends as well.

[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]

» desidid, I should add... Posted by: Gabba_Gabba_Hey

Comments are closed-

This comment has been removed from the site due to non-compliance with AlterNet's community policies.

Comments are closed-

This is the part in the screenplay
Posted by: weathered on Sep 9, 2009 3:43 AM   
Current rating: 4    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
where the families of those who were killed, injured and suffering grab Judy Miller by the hair and have her wash the floors of VA hospitals w/wasted NYtimes paper.

[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]


Comments are closed-

Far too many soldiers end up behind bars?
Posted by: leafsong1 on Sep 9, 2009 3:44 AM   
Current rating: 2    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
We have about a million war criminals in uniform at this moment. Far too few of them will ever be punishedf for their war crimes. We are supposed to be alarmed that they will be otherwise convicted and punished? Are we also supposed to think that Al Capone got a raw deal?

Right now, an obscene spectacle is taking place in the federal courts in Washington. People who have been held as suspects for as long as seven years are having their habeas cases examined. How much examination could such a case possibly take? If they haven't put you on trial for seven years, your detention is illegal, period. There is no possible legal excuse to hold you longer. And we're supposed to feel sorry for soldiers who got a fair trial?

[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]

» Let's not forget Posted by: shaka1

Comments are closed-

Want to see how the government will run national health care?
Posted by: Walks-in-Storms on Sep 9, 2009 5:54 AM   
Current rating: 3    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Anyone confused - as are most "Americans" - about how national health care would be run by the government need only look to the health care program they are already running, the Veterans Administration version.

But when will the public come to understand that their government is run by the nation's corporations?

And the Operation MOCKINGBIRD media have you all believing that what is going on with national health care is a fight between the insurance companies and the health care industry (corporations, you know) and the people fearful of "socialism" (what do you think automobile insurance, dwelling and property insurance - ALL insurance - is?). The same kind of behaviorally-conditioned, braindead mentality can't separate the military industrial complex (corporations) from the wondrous way we continue fighting wars - Iraq and Afghanistan, for instance - that make no sense.

Why don't we try a law requiring the health care insurers and health care industry CEOS to have the same health care and insurance everyone else has - or requiring the sons and daughters or the military industrial complex (and the congress) to to serve in their wars?

Mightn't that change everything faster than anything else?

[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]


Comments are closed-

What about mercenaries? There are and will be more mercenaries than soldiers.
Posted by: JenniferBedingfield on Sep 9, 2009 7:48 AM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
How many of those will end up behind bars given their ruthless and greedy ways?

[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]


Comments are closed-

Gulf War Syndrome, Depleted Uranium and YOU!
Posted by: Prinzowhales on Sep 9, 2009 7:54 AM   
Current rating: 3    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Look at the birth defects...look at the fact that antibodies to squalene have been found in 95% of vets with the symptoms of GWS, deployed or not, who got the jabs...no antibodies in the ocntrols...

...Its not only violent men who are being returned to society, it is sick men. Men who have also returned with mycoplasmic infections from the jabs that they have passed on to their children and wifes and health care professionals who cared for them.

And the DU? From the days of Leslie Groves and the Atom Bomb Project, we've known of the danger of DU...yet we've spread it through Serbia, Iraq and Afghanistan in what is a calculated, cold-blooded atrocity...a crime against humanity now, and millions of years from now. And what has the new regime accomplished? Nothing! Nada!...but, its not really a 'new' regime, is it? 'Change you can believe in'...is no change at all.

[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]


Comments are closed-

Lessens not learned
Posted by: troubleinmind254 on Sep 9, 2009 8:03 AM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
You would think after 35 years since Vietnam, that the way veterans issues around PTSD would have been resolved. But like the current wars and there effect on this new generation of vets, nothing has been learned.

[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]


Comments are closed-

Help educate young people about the misleading marketing & advertising tactics of the U.S. military
Posted by: AndersonConnor on Sep 9, 2009 8:36 AM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
........by joining and supporting CAMMMO.org. We focus on providing equal and truthful messaging to young people considering service in the U.S. military about what life, death, or injury in the military could mean for them and their families.

http://www.cammmo.org/newsletter_archives/index.html

http://www.cammmo.org/newsletter_subscription.html

http://www.cammmo.org/invite_your_friends/index.php

[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]


Comments are closed-

War is GOOD for America and Business & Business is GOOD
Posted by: Hiroak on Sep 9, 2009 11:21 AM   
Current rating: 1    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Palin / Nugent 2012

What if a bunch of pussies can't HANDLE it slap them in the face a few times and tell them to get their punk asses back out there and KILL some enemies of America. God Bless the U.S.A.

How else are we gonna improve this economy??? Hmmmmm any ideas you pinko fags? I guess YOUR idea would be to develop Green jobs like that commie pinko Van Jones wanted to do. Well it aint gonna happen Merkins likes to kill, maim, rape and pillage how else we gonna get Democracy going in those third world hell holes except by making them more Hellish?

[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]


Comments are closed-

Pffffft....If You Think You're Going Invoke Empathy For Murderers
Posted by: rastaman on Sep 9, 2009 11:25 AM   
Current rating: 3    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Pffffft....If You Think You're Going Invoke Empathy For Murderers


you're more of a lunatic than the Orwellian overlords that sent them there in the first place.

[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]

» Send Israel the bill Posted by: weathered

Comments are closed-

Free rent!
Posted by: messedup on Sep 9, 2009 12:03 PM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
They can't find a good job, can't deal with PTSD, or the stigma, may as well go to jail or prison instead. I've met plenty who have, and still do, it's just another way of life is all. This is America, once your caught up in the system it becomes your life.

[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]


Comments are closed-

Don't forget the agents
Posted by: james108 on Sep 9, 2009 12:07 PM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Expanding the treatment of soldiers, Obama Admin is leaving CIA agents out in the cold while restricting investigations from the higher ups who gave the orders and designed the program.

Maybe it does pay to question your orders. It certainly doesn't pay to follow them when you'll be held accountable and the ones giving the orders won't.

[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]


Comments are closed-

Don't Want The Consequences? Don't Join.
Posted by: tpfleming on Sep 9, 2009 12:34 PM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Here's how I am supporting the troops. I am advising them not to join the military, because the effects on their emotional, physical and mental health can be devastating. If they don't realize they are fighting a useless, immoral, imperialistic war, begun by ruthless profiteers and right-wing ideologues, then to hell with them. They deserve what they get.

Tim Fleming
www.eloquentbooks.com/MurderOfAnAmericanNazi.html
http://leftlooking.blogspot.com
http://www.blazingtrailers.com/show.php?title=441

[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]


Comments are closed-

Why? Because the standard treatment is to prescribe antidepressants.
Posted by: stellabloo on Sep 9, 2009 2:51 PM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
80% of patients who complain of feeling depressed are handed a prescription for SSRI antidepressants - of course the military is no different. But often people are depressed because they have experienced depressing circumstances, not because of their metabolism.

From Dr. Ann Blakely, researcher and expert witness on the effects of SSRI antidepressants:

"Research on serotonin has been clear from the very beginning that the most damaging thing that could be done to the serotonin system would be to impair one's ability to metabolize serotonin. Yet that is exactly how SSRI antidepressants exert their effects.

For decades research has shown that impairing serotonin metabolism will produce migraines, hot flashes, pains around the heart, difficulty breathing, a worsening of bronchial complaints, tension and anxiety which appears from out of nowhere, depression, suicide - especially very violent suicide, hostility, violent crime, arson, substance abuse, psychosis, mania, organic brain disease, autism, anorexia, reckless driving, Alzheimer's, impulsive behavior with no concern for punishment, and argumentative behavior."

http://psychrights.org/News/ATracyPhDSSRIFDATestimony.txt

For an interesting clip of Michael Moore and an eye-opening list of recent news events:

http://www.drugawareness.org/

[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]


Comments are closed-

Vietnam was based on the false-flag "Gulf of Tonkin" attack!
Posted by: JohnTruth2001 on Sep 9, 2009 2:52 PM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Even if the Gulf of Tonkin wasn't staged (and it was) why the hell would some North Vietnamese boats shooting on the mighty U.S. Navy warrant over a decade of jungle war & 50 million dead Vietnamese???

Wake-up, sheeple!

[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]


Comments are closed-

I Am...
Posted by: Revolutionary (Direct) Democracy on Sep 9, 2009 4:05 PM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
I am an American

I am a Patriot

I am a Veteran

I am a Socialist


FREE AMERICA

REVOLUTIONARY (DIRECT) DEMOCRACY

[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]

» RE: I Am... Posted by: Rasplanet

Comments are closed-

Blu-ray to Apple TV
Posted by: wmw1984 on Sep 10, 2009 12:58 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Blu-ray to Apple TV is attacking the converter market with the intensity as an earthquake registered 7. 8 on the Richter scale. The Blu-ray to Apple TV rocks the customers with strong functions as converting blue ray to Apple TV. Not only suit for the one type of Blu ray to Apple TV, the Blu-ray to Apple TV also supports the conversion of such video formats as avi, mpeg, mp4, mpg, wmv and so on. Much more, the Blu ray to Apple TV can excerpt the audio formats as mp3, MP3, AC3, AAC, WMA, WAV, and OGG to Apple TV. Blu ray to Apple TV, the best choice of you as you are converting Blu-ray to Apple TV.F4V Converter

[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]


Comments are closed-

Abolish Private "for profit" Prisons
Posted by: ahma_daeus on Sep 10, 2009 8:41 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
INCARCERATING PEOPLE "FOR PROFIT" IS IN A WORD....WRONG!
Even if one does not ask or pretends not to see the rope and the flashing red flag draped around the philosophical question standing solemnly at attention in the middle of the room, it remains apparent that the mere presence of a private “for profit” driven prison business in our country undermines the U.S Constitution and subsequently the credibility of the American criminal justice system. In fact, until all private prisons in America have been abolished and outlawed, “the promise” of fairness and justice at every level of this country’s judicial system will remain unattainable. We must restore the principles and the vacant promise of our judicial system. Our government cannot continue to "job-out" its obligation and neglect its duty to the individuals confined in the correctional and rehabilitation facilities throughout this nation, nor can it ignore the will of the people that it was designed to serve and protect. There is urgent need for the good people of this country to emerge from the shadows of indifference, apathy, cynicism, fear, and those other dark places that we migrate to when we are overwhelmed by frustration and the loss of hope.
My hope is that you will support the National Public Service Council to Abolish Private Prisons (NPSCTAPP) with a show of solidarity by signing "The Single Voice Petition"
http://www.petitiononline.com/gufree2/petition.html

Please visit our website for further information: http://www.npsctapp.blogspot.com

–Ahma Daeus
"Practicing Humanity Without A License"…

[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]


Comments are closed-

No country has ever honoured its crippled & maimed!
Posted by: phindrup on Sep 12, 2009 2:14 AM   
Current rating: 1    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
When will people understand? Countries/nations honour their ‘glorious dead’. None have ever done anything, or said that they would do anything for maimed and broken that do not have the decency to die.
As for the rest: the US has been blundering about destroying the lives of others for approximately a hundred years. Karma has it that you will suffer for your cruel/bad/vicious deeds. Well take a look at the way the Iraqis and the Afghanistani have been treated. Those you have trained to treat people like this will be loose on your streets, deranged and bitter. It is your wives, your children who will be the victims.
Me, I have no sympathy at all!

[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]


Comments are closed-

Better Re-think this article
Posted by: DavidPearce on Sep 14, 2009 4:21 PM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Personally, I think that the number of Veterans with mental,drug related,and criminal problems coming out of the current conflicts in Afghanistan and Iraq will, on a relative percentage basis, be much lower than those from the Southeast Asian conflicts.
1. No matter what the American people now think about the war, most of them were behind the motivation which sent our armed forces to Southwest Asia.

2. This war started as a result of a planned brutal attack upon innocent people, here in America. The fact that they died like donkeys is irrevelant to that point.

3. Even though the attitudes of the citizens of the country have significantly changed towards the war and the government, both the past and present Administration, the GIs are still as popular and respected as ever. To my knowledge, no returning GI has yet been subjected to anything like the treatment the Viet Nam vets received from the "dear old folks back home." Even Hanoi Jane Fonda is keeping her stupid trap shut.

4. Every single one of the veterans of the current conflict is a volunteer, not one conscripted soldier, sailor, airman, or Marine has died. True, stop loss measures have generated some resentment among the military, but there are no half trained draftees being sent into the buzz saw, while the sons of the wealthy and politicians are sitting at Harvard on a S-1 draft deferment. Also, the cancerous racism which pervaded the Viet Nam era Military has been for the most part stomped out.

5. This time, like in Desert Shield/Storm, the military reserve and the National Guard were, and continue to be activated. Except in rare cases, this never happened in the SE Asia conflict. Trained professionals, in the reserve and Guard, sat at home playing volley ball and drinking beer on Drill Weekends while conscripts were murdered in bunches in Viet Nam.

6. From the very start the support structure of the military, Veterans Administration and many other government agencies have been on the spot to train, prepare, treat, and rehabilitate the veterans of combat, which never happened in SE Asia. Is there more that can and should be done, but 40 years ago almost nothing was done.

7. These wars are being fought for territory, DIRT, not body count. Hundreds of GI are not asked to fight for real estate, loose friends and then give the objectives back to the bad guys. We also have a much better officer corps and enlisted leadership than in SE Asia. The military has spent a generation getting the leadership right. We also have the weapons, tactics, equipment, and support services in place and functioning. No matter what the politicians say, we don't really give two shites about capturing the hearts and minds of the native arseholes in Afghanistan or Iraq, because we know that they will screw the U.S. as soon as possible, when it is to their advantage to do so. I think that they, the natives, are generally being treated fairly, in spite of the above facts.

LASTLY

Military Units are training, preparing, serving, fighting, and returning as units. The GIs are going into danger with buddies and leaders they are sure of, men (and I suppose women) more readily fight, sacrifice, and die for their friends, ultimately it is all that matters in combat. No one in combat really gives a shite about the United States, Mom, Family, or Stroh's Beer. But everyone loves his or her buddies. When the fight is over these folks are coming back to the World, with most of the same people they left with, those who don't come back are memorialized forever.

I think that the limp dick arsehols, who are making predictions about how bad these fine young men and women, veterans of this conflict, will turn out, don't have any more idea about real WAR than they do about pissing into the wind.

[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]


Comments are closed-

Jim Strollo, who directs
Posted by: teon6 on Oct 2, 2009 2:13 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
With that in mind, as these new wars drag on, and as more and more service members find themselves entangled in the criminal justice system, it seems worth asking, in whose interest is the status quo maintained? Especially when there are more humane and even more rational solutions available.

Jim Strollo, who directs the veterans program at Groveland Prison in New York, has "a group of veterans that meets on Thursday nights flashforward субтитры the big bang theory subs the big bang theory subtitles angels and demons субтитры how i met your mother субтитры the big bang theory субтитры nokia 1203: инструкция к мобильному телефону fringe сезон 2 субтитры fringe субтитры supernatural season 5 supernatural субтитры субтитры у фильмам gossip girl субтитры seropol5 that addresses PTSD, among other things.

[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]

Alternet Comments:

Comments are closed-

I knew so many Vietnam vets who became heroin addicts
Posted by: desidid on Sep 9, 2009 3:11 AM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
they could not deal with what they had to do there. Now those guys were not asked to go 3to 4 times. I can't imagine what we have wrought, but I can tell you, if it is anything like the aftermath of Nam prepare yourselves for some really fucked up people. I'm telling you, I had friends who could be found in the middle of the night looking for "Charlie" with imaginary guns. I know there are several older members on this line who can tell horror stories about what happened to their friends as well.

[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]

» desidid, I should add... Posted by: Gabba_Gabba_Hey

Comments are closed-

This comment has been removed from the site due to non-compliance with AlterNet's community policies.

Comments are closed-

This is the part in the screenplay
Posted by: weathered on Sep 9, 2009 3:43 AM   
Current rating: 4    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
where the families of those who were killed, injured and suffering grab Judy Miller by the hair and have her wash the floors of VA hospitals w/wasted NYtimes paper.

[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]


Comments are closed-

Far too many soldiers end up behind bars?
Posted by: leafsong1 on Sep 9, 2009 3:44 AM   
Current rating: 2    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
We have about a million war criminals in uniform at this moment. Far too few of them will ever be punishedf for their war crimes. We are supposed to be alarmed that they will be otherwise convicted and punished? Are we also supposed to think that Al Capone got a raw deal?

Right now, an obscene spectacle is taking place in the federal courts in Washington. People who have been held as suspects for as long as seven years are having their habeas cases examined. How much examination could such a case possibly take? If they haven't put you on trial for seven years, your detention is illegal, period. There is no possible legal excuse to hold you longer. And we're supposed to feel sorry for soldiers who got a fair trial?

[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]

» Let's not forget Posted by: shaka1

Comments are closed-

Want to see how the government will run national health care?
Posted by: Walks-in-Storms on Sep 9, 2009 5:54 AM   
Current rating: 3    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Anyone confused - as are most "Americans" - about how national health care would be run by the government need only look to the health care program they are already running, the Veterans Administration version.

But when will the public come to understand that their government is run by the nation's corporations?

And the Operation MOCKINGBIRD media have you all believing that what is going on with national health care is a fight between the insurance companies and the health care industry (corporations, you know) and the people fearful of "socialism" (what do you think automobile insurance, dwelling and property insurance - ALL insurance - is?). The same kind of behaviorally-conditioned, braindead mentality can't separate the military industrial complex (corporations) from the wondrous way we continue fighting wars - Iraq and Afghanistan, for instance - that make no sense.

Why don't we try a law requiring the health care insurers and health care industry CEOS to have the same health care and insurance everyone else has - or requiring the sons and daughters or the military industrial complex (and the congress) to to serve in their wars?

Mightn't that change everything faster than anything else?

[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]


Comments are closed-

What about mercenaries? There are and will be more mercenaries than soldiers.
Posted by: JenniferBedingfield on Sep 9, 2009 7:48 AM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
How many of those will end up behind bars given their ruthless and greedy ways?

[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]


Comments are closed-

Gulf War Syndrome, Depleted Uranium and YOU!
Posted by: Prinzowhales on Sep 9, 2009 7:54 AM   
Current rating: 3    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Look at the birth defects...look at the fact that antibodies to squalene have been found in 95% of vets with the symptoms of GWS, deployed or not, who got the jabs...no antibodies in the ocntrols...

...Its not only violent men who are being returned to society, it is sick men. Men who have also returned with mycoplasmic infections from the jabs that they have passed on to their children and wifes and health care professionals who cared for them.

And the DU? From the days of Leslie Groves and the Atom Bomb Project, we've known of the danger of DU...yet we've spread it through Serbia, Iraq and Afghanistan in what is a calculated, cold-blooded atrocity...a crime against humanity now, and millions of years from now. And what has the new regime accomplished? Nothing! Nada!...but, its not really a 'new' regime, is it? 'Change you can believe in'...is no change at all.

[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]


Comments are closed-

Lessens not learned
Posted by: troubleinmind254 on Sep 9, 2009 8:03 AM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
You would think after 35 years since Vietnam, that the way veterans issues around PTSD would have been resolved. But like the current wars and there effect on this new generation of vets, nothing has been learned.

[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]


Comments are closed-

Help educate young people about the misleading marketing & advertising tactics of the U.S. military
Posted by: AndersonConnor on Sep 9, 2009 8:36 AM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
........by joining and supporting CAMMMO.org. We focus on providing equal and truthful messaging to young people considering service in the U.S. military about what life, death, or injury in the military could mean for them and their families.

http://www.cammmo.org/newsletter_archives/index.html

http://www.cammmo.org/newsletter_subscription.html

http://www.cammmo.org/invite_your_friends/index.php

[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]


Comments are closed-

War is GOOD for America and Business & Business is GOOD
Posted by: Hiroak on Sep 9, 2009 11:21 AM   
Current rating: 1    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Palin / Nugent 2012

What if a bunch of pussies can't HANDLE it slap them in the face a few times and tell them to get their punk asses back out there and KILL some enemies of America. God Bless the U.S.A.

How else are we gonna improve this economy??? Hmmmmm any ideas you pinko fags? I guess YOUR idea would be to develop Green jobs like that commie pinko Van Jones wanted to do. Well it aint gonna happen Merkins likes to kill, maim, rape and pillage how else we gonna get Democracy going in those third world hell holes except by making them more Hellish?

[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]


Comments are closed-

Pffffft....If You Think You're Going Invoke Empathy For Murderers
Posted by: rastaman on Sep 9, 2009 11:25 AM   
Current rating: 3    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Pffffft....If You Think You're Going Invoke Empathy For Murderers


you're more of a lunatic than the Orwellian overlords that sent them there in the first place.

[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]

» Send Israel the bill Posted by: weathered

Comments are closed-

Free rent!
Posted by: messedup on Sep 9, 2009 12:03 PM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
They can't find a good job, can't deal with PTSD, or the stigma, may as well go to jail or prison instead. I've met plenty who have, and still do, it's just another way of life is all. This is America, once your caught up in the system it becomes your life.

[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]


Comments are closed-

Don't forget the agents
Posted by: james108 on Sep 9, 2009 12:07 PM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Expanding the treatment of soldiers, Obama Admin is leaving CIA agents out in the cold while restricting investigations from the higher ups who gave the orders and designed the program.

Maybe it does pay to question your orders. It certainly doesn't pay to follow them when you'll be held accountable and the ones giving the orders won't.

[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]


Comments are closed-

Don't Want The Consequences? Don't Join.
Posted by: tpfleming on Sep 9, 2009 12:34 PM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Here's how I am supporting the troops. I am advising them not to join the military, because the effects on their emotional, physical and mental health can be devastating. If they don't realize they are fighting a useless, immoral, imperialistic war, begun by ruthless profiteers and right-wing ideologues, then to hell with them. They deserve what they get.

Tim Fleming
www.eloquentbooks.com/MurderOfAnAmericanNazi.html
http://leftlooking.blogspot.com
http://www.blazingtrailers.com/show.php?title=441

[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]


Comments are closed-

Why? Because the standard treatment is to prescribe antidepressants.
Posted by: stellabloo on Sep 9, 2009 2:51 PM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
80% of patients who complain of feeling depressed are handed a prescription for SSRI antidepressants - of course the military is no different. But often people are depressed because they have experienced depressing circumstances, not because of their metabolism.

From Dr. Ann Blakely, researcher and expert witness on the effects of SSRI antidepressants:

"Research on serotonin has been clear from the very beginning that the most damaging thing that could be done to the serotonin system would be to impair one's ability to metabolize serotonin. Yet that is exactly how SSRI antidepressants exert their effects.

For decades research has shown that impairing serotonin metabolism will produce migraines, hot flashes, pains around the heart, difficulty breathing, a worsening of bronchial complaints, tension and anxiety which appears from out of nowhere, depression, suicide - especially very violent suicide, hostility, violent crime, arson, substance abuse, psychosis, mania, organic brain disease, autism, anorexia, reckless driving, Alzheimer's, impulsive behavior with no concern for punishment, and argumentative behavior."

http://psychrights.org/News/ATracyPhDSSRIFDATestimony.txt

For an interesting clip of Michael Moore and an eye-opening list of recent news events:

http://www.drugawareness.org/

[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]


Comments are closed-

Vietnam was based on the false-flag "Gulf of Tonkin" attack!
Posted by: JohnTruth2001 on Sep 9, 2009 2:52 PM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Even if the Gulf of Tonkin wasn't staged (and it was) why the hell would some North Vietnamese boats shooting on the mighty U.S. Navy warrant over a decade of jungle war & 50 million dead Vietnamese???

Wake-up, sheeple!

[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]


Comments are closed-

I Am...
Posted by: Revolutionary (Direct) Democracy on Sep 9, 2009 4:05 PM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
I am an American

I am a Patriot

I am a Veteran

I am a Socialist


FREE AMERICA

REVOLUTIONARY (DIRECT) DEMOCRACY

[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]

» RE: I Am... Posted by: Rasplanet

Comments are closed-

Blu-ray to Apple TV
Posted by: wmw1984 on Sep 10, 2009 12:58 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Blu-ray to Apple TV is attacking the converter market with the intensity as an earthquake registered 7. 8 on the Richter scale. The Blu-ray to Apple TV rocks the customers with strong functions as converting blue ray to Apple TV. Not only suit for the one type of Blu ray to Apple TV, the Blu-ray to Apple TV also supports the conversion of such video formats as avi, mpeg, mp4, mpg, wmv and so on. Much more, the Blu ray to Apple TV can excerpt the audio formats as mp3, MP3, AC3, AAC, WMA, WAV, and OGG to Apple TV. Blu ray to Apple TV, the best choice of you as you are converting Blu-ray to Apple TV.F4V Converter

[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]


Comments are closed-

Abolish Private "for profit" Prisons
Posted by: ahma_daeus on Sep 10, 2009 8:41 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
INCARCERATING PEOPLE "FOR PROFIT" IS IN A WORD....WRONG!
Even if one does not ask or pretends not to see the rope and the flashing red flag draped around the philosophical question standing solemnly at attention in the middle of the room, it remains apparent that the mere presence of a private “for profit” driven prison business in our country undermines the U.S Constitution and subsequently the credibility of the American criminal justice system. In fact, until all private prisons in America have been abolished and outlawed, “the promise” of fairness and justice at every level of this country’s judicial system will remain unattainable. We must restore the principles and the vacant promise of our judicial system. Our government cannot continue to "job-out" its obligation and neglect its duty to the individuals confined in the correctional and rehabilitation facilities throughout this nation, nor can it ignore the will of the people that it was designed to serve and protect. There is urgent need for the good people of this country to emerge from the shadows of indifference, apathy, cynicism, fear, and those other dark places that we migrate to when we are overwhelmed by frustration and the loss of hope.
My hope is that you will support the National Public Service Council to Abolish Private Prisons (NPSCTAPP) with a show of solidarity by signing "The Single Voice Petition"
http://www.petitiononline.com/gufree2/petition.html

Please visit our website for further information: http://www.npsctapp.blogspot.com

–Ahma Daeus
"Practicing Humanity Without A License"…

[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]


Comments are closed-

No country has ever honoured its crippled & maimed!
Posted by: phindrup on Sep 12, 2009 2:14 AM   
Current rating: 1    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
When will people understand? Countries/nations honour their ‘glorious dead’. None have ever done anything, or said that they would do anything for maimed and broken that do not have the decency to die.
As for the rest: the US has been blundering about destroying the lives of others for approximately a hundred years. Karma has it that you will suffer for your cruel/bad/vicious deeds. Well take a look at the way the Iraqis and the Afghanistani have been treated. Those you have trained to treat people like this will be loose on your streets, deranged and bitter. It is your wives, your children who will be the victims.
Me, I have no sympathy at all!

[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]


Comments are closed-

Better Re-think this article
Posted by: DavidPearce on Sep 14, 2009 4:21 PM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Personally, I think that the number of Veterans with mental,drug related,and criminal problems coming out of the current conflicts in Afghanistan and Iraq will, on a relative percentage basis, be much lower than those from the Southeast Asian conflicts.
1. No matter what the American people now think about the war, most of them were behind the motivation which sent our armed forces to Southwest Asia.

2. This war started as a result of a planned brutal attack upon innocent people, here in America. The fact that they died like donkeys is irrevelant to that point.

3. Even though the attitudes of the citizens of the country have significantly changed towards the war and the government, both the past and present Administration, the GIs are still as popular and respected as ever. To my knowledge, no returning GI has yet been subjected to anything like the treatment the Viet Nam vets received from the "dear old folks back home." Even Hanoi Jane Fonda is keeping her stupid trap shut.

4. Every single one of the veterans of the current conflict is a volunteer, not one conscripted soldier, sailor, airman, or Marine has died. True, stop loss measures have generated some resentment among the military, but there are no half trained draftees being sent into the buzz saw, while the sons of the wealthy and politicians are sitting at Harvard on a S-1 draft deferment. Also, the cancerous racism which pervaded the Viet Nam era Military has been for the most part stomped out.

5. This time, like in Desert Shield/Storm, the military reserve and the National Guard were, and continue to be activated. Except in rare cases, this never happened in the SE Asia conflict. Trained professionals, in the reserve and Guard, sat at home playing volley ball and drinking beer on Drill Weekends while conscripts were murdered in bunches in Viet Nam.

6. From the very start the support structure of the military, Veterans Administration and many other government agencies have been on the spot to train, prepare, treat, and rehabilitate the veterans of combat, which never happened in SE Asia. Is there more that can and should be done, but 40 years ago almost nothing was done.

7. These wars are being fought for territory, DIRT, not body count. Hundreds of GI are not asked to fight for real estate, loose friends and then give the objectives back to the bad guys. We also have a much better officer corps and enlisted leadership than in SE Asia. The military has spent a generation getting the leadership right. We also have the weapons, tactics, equipment, and support services in place and functioning. No matter what the politicians say, we don't really give two shites about capturing the hearts and minds of the native arseholes in Afghanistan or Iraq, because we know that they will screw the U.S. as soon as possible, when it is to their advantage to do so. I think that they, the natives, are generally being treated fairly, in spite of the above facts.

LASTLY

Military Units are training, preparing, serving, fighting, and returning as units. The GIs are going into danger with buddies and leaders they are sure of, men (and I suppose women) more readily fight, sacrifice, and die for their friends, ultimately it is all that matters in combat. No one in combat really gives a shite about the United States, Mom, Family, or Stroh's Beer. But everyone loves his or her buddies. When the fight is over these folks are coming back to the World, with most of the same people they left with, those who don't come back are memorialized forever.

I think that the limp dick arsehols, who are making predictions about how bad these fine young men and women, veterans of this conflict, will turn out, don't have any more idea about real WAR than they do about pissing into the wind.

[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]


Comments are closed-

Jim Strollo, who directs
Posted by: teon6 on Oct 2, 2009 2:13 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
With that in mind, as these new wars drag on, and as more and more service members find themselves entangled in the criminal justice system, it seems worth asking, in whose interest is the status quo maintained? Especially when there are more humane and even more rational solutions available.

Jim Strollo, who directs the veterans program at Groveland Prison in New York, has "a group of veterans that meets on Thursday nights flashforward субтитры the big bang theory subs the big bang theory subtitles angels and demons субтитры how i met your mother субтитры the big bang theory субтитры nokia 1203: инструкция к мобильному телефону fringe сезон 2 субтитры fringe субтитры supernatural season 5 supernatural субтитры субтитры у фильмам gossip girl субтитры seropol5 that addresses PTSD, among other things.

[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]

 
Advertisement
From The Blog
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
Most Read
Most Emailed
Most Discussed
On REDDIT
On DIGG
 
loading ...
POWERED BY DIGG'S USERS