COMMENTS: 185
How Eating Steak, Cake and Butter Can Make You Live Longer
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Jenny Matthau stands in front of hundreds of students at the Natural Gourmet School and speaks heresy. The New York City culinary program specializes in "health-supportive, whole-foods cuisine" with a "plant-based curriculum." Beef and pork aren’t on the syllabus, to say nothing of veal -- and the school’s alumni run kitchens at health spas and work in restaurants with names like Organic Planet. So when Matthau, who’s president of the school and teaches the core nutrition class, delivers her lecture in praise of fat, students are often surprised.
"A lot of students expect to hear just what the government is saying: You have your good fats and your bad fats, and you should try to eat a very low-fat diet," Matthau says. "And we don’t agree."
Instead, Matthau’s lecture includes a long section on why we need fats of all kinds in our diets, much more than we’ve been led to believe. She points out societies like the Maasai, a Kenyan tribe that counts meat, blood and whole milk among its dietary staples, yet has low rates of heart disease and obesity. She praises fat’s capacity to add flavor to a dish and make people feel full. "Fat makes things taste great, period," Matthau says. "I’m a big fan." Even so, sometimes it feels like a losing battle. "Students still want alternatives to butter."
For more than three decades, we’ve been told that fatty foods are deadly, to blame for a full menu of health hazards, from heart disease to obesity to cancer. Regularly described as the nutritional equivalent of cigarettes, fat has been the target of public-service campaigns and municipal bans aimed at keeping us slender and healthy. But a growing body of international research suggests our obsessive fear of fat may be misplaced. A high-fat diet won’t necessarily make us sick or fat; a low-fat diet may not make us healthy or slim.
Even the American Heart Association (AHA), a leader in the campaign against dietary fat, recently revised its nutritional guidelines, increasing the daily recommendations for fat. "The science just wasn’t there," acknowledges Robert Eckel, president of the AHA and a professor of endocrinology, metabolism and diabetes at the University of Colorado Health Sciences Center.
Not only that, but our myopic aversion to fat may be doing more damage than an order of steak frites ever could. In our effort to avoid the demon lipids at all costs, we’re forever tinkering with our diets -- substituting Snackwells for Oreos, dry toast and a glass of orange juice for a plate of bacon and eggs -- in hopes it will keep us skinny almost effortlessly. But these dietary contortions often have unintended consequences. They inspire us to eat more food, for starters. And the food we eat more of? It contains more chemicals, starches and sugar. These ingredients "are more harmful than the much-feared animal fats," says Irina Baumbach, secretary of the Association for Nutritional Medicine and Dietetics in Aachen, Germany
It’s a shame, really. Because as it happens, experts now recognize fat can be good for you. Aside from the beneficial effects some fats can have on cholesterol -- unsaturated fats, like olive oil, tend to raise levels of good cholesterol and lower levels of the bad stuff -- fats help deliver vitamins, build cells and regulate hormones. Unsaturated fat also has antioxidant properties, which may help fight cancer; so does meat from grass-fed animals. The oft-repeated hypothesis that links a high-fat diet to breast cancer has never been proved. And when it comes to appetite, hunger and obesity, fats -- along with protein, green vegetables and whole grains -- take more time to digest, making people feel full longer.
Even critics of high-fat diets acknowledge that people on them tend to eat less because they aren’t as hungry. And according to studies published recently in the New England Journal of Medicine (NEJM), many people even have a type of fat -- known as brown adipose tissue, or brown fat -- that burns calories rather than piling them on.
Finally, fatty food appears to be shedding its stigma. Restaurants are featuring ever-fattier cuts of meat; cookbooks extol the virtues of lard. And the more scientists and nutritionists learn, the more they’re willing to concede that vilifying fat isn’t the solution. Says Jennifer Lovejoy, an obesity researcher at the University of Washington School of Public Health: "When people are eating whole food, real food diets, obesity is not a problem."
At a time when weight loss has become prime-time entertainment, a civic responsibility and a multibillion-dollar global industry, it’s easy to forget that for centuries, doctors worried about malnutrition, starvation and underweight children, points out Gary Taubes. A science journalist, Taubes has been beating the drum in favor of fat for almost a decade. His book, Good Calories, Bad Calories: Fats, Carbs, and the Controversial Science of Diet and Health (Vintage), spends 500 pages dismantling the prevailing ideas about fat, weight gain and health. It hasn’t made him popular.
There was a time, though, when a low-fat diet was just as controversial. Fat -- on the plate or the hips -- didn’t trigger health concerns until the late 20th century. As recently as the 1970s, dietary guidelines included plenty of fats and protein, because they helped people feel sated, preventing overeating. And obesity wasn’t considered a serious problem in Europe or the U.S.; high-carbohydrate meals were associated with weight gain, and academic articles linked obesity in Africa and the Caribbean with starchy diets.
But heart disease was a growing public health concern. By the mid-1900s, it was a leading cause of death in the U.S., with the rest of the West catching up quickly. Led by University of Minnesota physiologist Ancel Keys, scientists linked heart disease to cholesterol, and made the leap to fatty foods. While critics of Keys’ research abounded, the U.S. Congress wasn’t among them. In the late 1970s, a Senate committee issued broad dietary guidelines encouraging Americans to eat less fat. Today, we take it for granted that one too many bacon double-cheeseburgers will give us a heart attack for sure.
It’s hardly that simple. While the West started avoiding fats at all costs, researchers continued to study what causes heart disease. As they discovered more about the effects of different kinds of fats -- saturated, trans, mono- and poly-unsaturated -- on different kinds of cholesterol -- HDL ("good") and LDL ("bad") -- the weaker the link between dietary fats and heart disease became. Unsaturated fats, like those in nuts, fish, olive oil and avocado, are fluid at room temperature; they reduce LDL, which causes buildup in the arteries. Saturated fats, found in meat and dairy, chocolate and palm oil are solid at room temperature and their effects on cholesterol is more complicated. Coconut oil, for example, has been shown to raise both good and bad cholesterol levels, whereas some of the fats in dark chocolate and beef have a neutral effect.
In other words, as Taubes puts it, when it comes to cholesterol, food high in saturated fats may be, at worst, a wash. "If you work out the numbers, you come to the surreal conclusion that you can eat lard straight from the can and conceivably reduce your risk of heart disease," he wrote in 2002. These days, he says he sees evidence of the conventional wisdom everywhere, from low-fat products on the shelves to the customers at his local bagel shop ordering soy cream cheese and skim lattes. "I always want to ask them why," he says. "There’s this overarching idea that fat is bad for you -- that something has to be the problem with our diets, because we die of heart disease and we get fat."
Increasingly, researchers and nutrition experts are starting to come around. "I have been in this business for 35 years and I have never been one of those who maintain that fat is bad," says Daan Kromhout, a professor of public health at Wageningen University in the Netherlands. "We don’t even know whether the two things -- fat and [being] overweight -- have anything to do with each other. The fat issue is much more complicated than it was once thought to be." Moreover, Kromhout says, stating only the amount of fat in a food product is misleading, since "you have to specify what type of fat is included -- saturated, unsaturated, trans-fat -- because if you don’t, people will just cut down on all fats, the good ones included."
Dutch pediatricians were so alarmed by the low-fat trend that they urged parents to ensure that their children receive the essential nutrients only fat can bring. "Children under the age of 6 need fat," said Elise Buiting, president of the Dutch Youth Service Medical Association, in an interview with a Dutch newspaper this year. "We recommend full-fat margarine with unsaturated fatty acids, for example. Children who are given the same ‘light’ products as their parents do not get enough."
As for the connection between fatty foods and weight, it’s controversial as well. Obesity was never the target of Congress’ efforts, although the low-fat recommendations were instituted to help people manage their weight. They haven’t. Since the guidelines were adopted, Americans have indisputably gotten fatter. "In the early 1990s, we ate low-fat everything and we didn’t get thinner," says Alice Lichtenstein, a professor of nutrition science and policy at Tufts University in Massachusetts. "There’s your proof."
In the 1960s and ’70s, roughly 14 percent of Americans was obese. Today, more than 30 percent is, with another 30 percent classified as "overweight." Same goes in Europe, where consumption of fat has dropped and obesity rates have risen. In the U.K., obesity rates have tripled since 1980. In the Netherlands, the percentage of moderately overweight adults increased from 28 in 1981 to almost 36 in 2008, according to the Dutch Central Bureau of Statistics. The percentage of obese people more than doubled, from 5.1 percent to 11.2 percent, in the same period. According to the Society for the Study of Obesity, roughly half the population of the European Union is overweight or obese.
In three decades, while scientists have learned more about what eating fat will and won’t do, consumers have wholeheartedly embraced the "low-fat" doctrine. In the 1990s, more than 1,000 reduced- or low-fat foods were introduced each year, according to the AHA. By the end of the decade, more than 90 percent of the population reported consuming low-fat products. According to one survey, two out of three adults believed "a need exists for food ingredients that can replace the fat in food products," and one out of every two saw the appeal in food advertised as "reduced in both fat and calories." In other words, given the chance to replace fat with something else, we opened wide.
So given the blanket condemnation of fat, what did we eat instead? If we cut fat out of our diets, we have to get calories from somewhere. When food companies offer reduced-fat versions of cookies, salad dressings and sauces, sugar and carbohydrates generally make up the difference. When we consciously reduce the fat in our diets, we don’t typically eat fewer calories; we eat more rice and pasta, according to a survey by the U.S. Department of Agriculture. And low-fat products have their own problems. "If you reduce the fat, you have to replace it with something," says Samuel Klein, a professor of medicine and nutrition in the medical school at Washington University in St. Louis, Missouri. "So it’s sugar." It’s true: Either for taste, or to replace fat’s richness and moistness, the food industry began using sugar.
But as researchers studied fat and weight, they learned more about the effects of sugar, which as it turns out may inspire more weight gain than fat does. When we eat sugar -- or refined carbohydrates, which break down into sugar -- the body produces insulin to transport the sugar to the muscles and organs that burn it as fuel. Insulin, though, also regulates fat metabolism, and when insulin levels are high, the body stores fat rather than burning it. The issues and consequences of producing too much insulin are still open to debate, but many researchers believe that replacing fats with sugars and carbohydrates has the potential to wreak havoc on your metabolism. And ironically, even sugar substitutes, like aspartame, the sweetener in NutraSweet and Equal, have been linked to weight gain. Scientists aren’t sure why, but they seem to encourage people to eat more, or disrupt energy expenditures.
Sugar substitutes work well for baked goods, salad dressings and processed meats. But they can’t be fried, making them useless in potato chips, which account for 35 percent of the $46 billion global market for savory snacks, according to the research firm Datamonitor. So food scientists developed an indigestible fat, sucrose polyester -- more commonly known by its brand name, Olestra. Researchers found Olestra inhibits the absorption of fat-soluble vitamins and other important nutrients.
Overall, as Americans replaced regular foods with low-fat products, nutrition sometimes suffered. One study found that women who used fat-modified products weren’t getting enough vitamin E or zinc, prompting the authors to recommend "additional dietary guidance."
Study after study found that people who said they ate low-fat diets didn’t eat any less than people who kept eating fat. The government’s message had perhaps worked too well. People thought fat, not quantity or quality of food, was the villain. The Food Marketing Institute in Virginia reported that buying food products labeled "low-fat" was the most common way people improved their diets. According to Pierre Chandon and Brian Wansink, marketing professors at INSEAD in France and New York’s Cornell University respectively, subsequent studies showed that "low-fat labels lead all consumers -- particularly those who are overweight -- to overeat snack foods." After all, a reduced-fat version of a cookie often has just as many calories as its "original" counterpart (not to mention more sugar). Chandon and Wansink extended their theory to fast-food restaurants that claim to be healthy. When foods are perceived to be good for you people eat too much of them.
Fortunately, the tyranny of the low-fat diet seems to be waning. Three years ago, Toronto-based chef and food writer Jennifer McLagan struggled to drum up interest for her idea for a cookbook about animal fat. Her 2005 effort, Bones: Recipes, History, and Lore, had won a James Beard Award, annually conferred on the best chefs, cookbook authors and restaurateurs in North America. Even with that pedigree, fat, apparently, was pushing it. Polite publishers told her the concept was too contrarian. Others flat-out called it "disgusting."
She eventually found a taker, and her book, Fat: An Appreciation of a Misunderstood Ingredient, with Recipes, is unapologetic. It’s adamant in its defense of fat’s benefits; the cooking instructions range from how to render your own pork fat to recipes for Brown Butter Ice Cream and Bacon Baklava. And McLagan is winning followers. Pork belly and marrow are common on menus; barbeque has gathered legions of fans outside its native South; it seems in every major city you can find at least one restaurant willing to roast a whole pig for a hungry party. And guess what? In May, Fat too won a James Beard Award.
As the obesity epidemic was later to arrive in Europe, the pro-fat backlash isn’t yet in full swing there, but signs are emerging. A recent study in the NEJM fingering total calories, not fats or carbs, as responsible for weight loss, made headlines on both sides of the Atlantic. And anecdotes abound. British celebrity chef Anthony Worrall Thompson has been blatant about using lard in his restaurants. In Norway, sausage consumption is up.
Even mainstream nutritional experts have recanted. The blanket message that "fat is bad for you" has few remaining adherents. The AHA, the National Heart, Lung and Blood Institute and the American Council on Science and Health have all modified the message, from their original admission that unsaturated fats are good for you to the grudging acknowledgement that even trans fats may not be as bad as they’ve been portrayed to be. "We should apologize for making people think about ‘percentage of calories,’" says the AHA’s Eckel, adding that the focus should be on total calories. "You want to eat steak? That’s fine. Just make it six ounces rather than 16."
To undo decades of fat-phobia, it’s going to take a more rousing endorsement. And for that, it’s necessary to leave the realm of science and enter the kitchen, where it’s easier to consider the possibilities. Take guacamole, or the pat of butter that finishes a risotto or a chocolate pudding. McLagan includes fat in everything from salad to dessert, with recipes for grilled steak and red wine sauce topped with bone marrow. For a sweet, try salty bacon brittle with pork cracklings. These are beyond rich -- the animal fats give the dishes depth and an almost medieval earthiness -- and they’re delicious, enough to make even confirmed skeptics salivate.
"Go ahead," McLagan says. "It won’t kill you."
This story has reporting by Ursula Sautter.
This article was originally published on OdeMagazine.com. Click here to request a free issue.
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Comments are closed-
Posted by: DignityForAll on Jul 27, 2009 12:48 AM
Current rating: 3 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Also, for non-dairy cream or "whole milk" try homemade cashew milk (or peanut/almond/hemp-seed milk), it's really easy and fantastic on granola or in tea - recipe.
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» RE: Coconut oil is excellent
Posted by: anneliese-nyc
» RE: Coconut oil is excellent
Posted by: progressiveview
» Alternet's poor choice: putting a pic of hamburger and fries with this article
Posted by: Smackback
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Posted by: vision on Jul 27, 2009 12:55 AM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
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» RE: Not Gary Taubes again...
Posted by: JERSEYDAN
» Funny, I stopped reading the whole article once I saw Gary Taubes.
Posted by: jparsons
» Just in case anybody thinks they have any new arguments on this or any vegetarian topic...
Posted by: jparsons
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Posted by: Carts on Jul 27, 2009 2:01 AM
Current rating: 2 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
According to www.dadamo.com
O bloods (40% pop'n)need meat, but can't tolerate dairy or wheat
A blood types (40%) are vegan - no meat or dairy and no wheat
B (15%) and AB (5%) are a mix
check out the website and don't fall for any "one diet fits all" misinformation
Oprah Winfrey is onto this now - she needs it - and it may work for her - she's a fatty!
What's your blood type?
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» RE: Blood type very important
Posted by: bcgirl125
» RE: Blood type very important
Posted by: Carts
» Blood type incompatibility diet
Posted by: Biflspud
» RE: Blood type very important
Posted by: lepidopteryx
» You and me both
Posted by: BlueTigress
» Not as important as phrenology!
Posted by: leafsong1
» RE: Blood type very important
Posted by: Unrepentant Heretic
» The blood type diet has helped me to make better food choices
Posted by: Smackback
» RE: Blood type very important
Posted by: MarchHare
» RE: Blood type very important ( Hold on now)
Posted by: Caleb Darkstar
» Thanks for shedding dark on the subject
Posted by: Nuanced
» I'm O-neg and love dairy ...
Posted by: Dankhank
» And good breads ...
Posted by: Dankhank
» RE: Blood type very important
Posted by: zorba1
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Posted by: seuss on Jul 27, 2009 2:43 AM
Current rating: 2 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
People can talk about blood types and Atkins and whatever else they choose to babble about, but the truth is that the only fats that are important (and they are very important,) are DHA and EPA, predominantly from fish, as the veggie sources typically are very lossy in their conversion into the right form, and GLA which supplementally comes from Borage or Evening primrose.
That's it. EPA, DHA, and GLA are the only "essential" fatty acids that we need. The rest can be manufactured through the general processes that our bodies go through. This desn't change if you're "type 'o'" or anything else. we are humans. our bodies do things. This is one of them.
fat is stored energy.
There's nothing wrong with a moderate accumulation of it.
You don't have to starve the body of its intended and traditional energy source, complex carbohydrates, in order to make yourself healthy. You may lose fat, but you'll sacrifice your well-being doing it. I guess it's fine if you are a fox news fan...
I can't wait for Limbaugh to endorse Atkins... Maybe then people will get it.
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» Simple sugars, sugars, sugars. (a/k/a simple carbohydrates)
Posted by: Quist
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Posted by: Fat Man at the Buffet Line on Jul 27, 2009 3:16 AM
Current rating: 4 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
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» RE: bought me a u bolt yesterday
Posted by: JERSEYDAN
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Posted by: Don Quixot on Jul 27, 2009 3:20 AM
Current rating: 2 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
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» Another fallacious vegan argument. BTW, present day plant life have plenty of toxins.
Posted by: Quist
» RE: Another fallacious vegan argument. BTW, present day plant life have plenty of toxins.
Posted by: Don Quixot
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Posted by: JenniferBedingfield on Jul 27, 2009 4:37 AM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
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» I totally agree Jen.
Posted by: Quist
» Thanks Quist. I learned that lesson and yours the hard way. :(
Posted by: JenniferBedingfield
» RE: Thanks Quist. I learned that lesson and yours the hard way. :(
Posted by: progressiveview
» RE: Thanks Quist. I learned that lesson and yours the hard way. :(
Posted by: JenniferBedingfield
» RE: childhood foods :(
Posted by: clresu
» RE: childhood foods :(
Posted by: JenniferBedingfield
» RE: childhood foods :(
Posted by: clresu
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Posted by: Tom Holum on Jul 27, 2009 5:20 AM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
in all things.
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Posted by: gourdman on Jul 27, 2009 5:26 AM
Current rating: 3 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
MORE INFO
From The Cancer Project
"The World Health Organization has determined that dietary factors account for at least 30 percent of all cancers in Western countries and up to 20 percent in developing countries. When cancer researchers started to search for links between diet and cancer, one of the most noticeable findings was that people who avoided meat were much less likely to develop the disease. Large studies in England and Germany showed that vegetarians were about 40 percent less likely to develop cancer compared to meat eaters. In the United States, researchers studied Seventh-day Adventists, a religious group that is remarkable because, although nearly all members avoid tobacco and alcohol and follow generally healthful lifestyles, about half of the Adventist population is vegetarian, while the other half consumes modest amounts of meat. This fact allowed scientists to separate the effects of eating meat from other factors. Overall, these studies showed significant reductions in cancer risk among those who avoided meat. In contrast, Harvard studies showed that daily meat eaters have approximately three times the colon cancer risk, compared to those who rarely eat meat."
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» RE: This article misses the point
Posted by: snowhound
» RE: This article misses the point
Posted by: progressiveview
» plagiarizing Weston Price, tisk tisk.. the Maasai butcher women!
Posted by: jingles
» RE: This article misses the point
Posted by: progressiveview
» RE: This article misses the point -- part 2
Posted by: progressiveview
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Posted by: snowhound on Jul 27, 2009 5:36 AM
Current rating: 4 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
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» "Traditional Fats"?
Posted by: westomoon
» RE: "Traditional Fats"?
Posted by: progressiveview
» High temp cooking
Posted by: westomoon
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Posted by: Rainy24 on Jul 27, 2009 5:41 AM
Current rating: 3 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Eating animal fat and products causes an acid body which if she does the research she would know is harmful. In the article it is stated that people who don't eat meat, cake etc... will eat other junk to make up for it so therefore eat the meat, cake etc.... it's better. That's like saying if you don't eat a tub of lard each day you might eat too much sugar by the bucket-full so therefore eat the lard.
Why not say animal fat and sugar loaded chemical loaded foods are all bad. As Michael Pollen would say, Eat food, not too much, mostly plants.
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» RE: ating animal fat is not healthy no matter how you try to slice it.
Posted by: snowhound
» Rainy24, you hit on one of the fundamental flaws in this dangerous article
Posted by: limburger
» RE: ating animal fat is not healthy no matter how you try to slice it.
Posted by: jrgjniew
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Posted by: praedor on Jul 27, 2009 6:02 AM
Current rating: 3 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
The article also glosses over the damage done to public lands by preferring cattle to native wildlife and plants.
The higher fat foods may well be OK healthwise, but that isn't the only side of the issue. There is the environmental damage done as I list above, the diversion of food grains into less efficient "fattening up" of cows/hogs, and then there is the fact that it requires the mass killing of fearful, pain-feeling, advanced animals with the automatic desensitization of people to the pain and suffering of any and all OTHER animals. There is the follow-on move to try to wipe out coyotes, wolves, cougars, bears, etc, all for the sake of cattle baron wallets at at the expense of the greater ecosystem.
You cannot ignore the non-dietary harms when addressing the nutritional value of fatty meats.
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» RE: One of the major problems NOT addressed
Posted by: progressiveview
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Posted by: themotie on Jul 27, 2009 6:11 AM
Current rating: 3 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
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» Yeah...most grannies were consuming large amounts of red meat, bacon, eggs, dairy, canned food...
Posted by: Quist
» RE: Yeah...most grannies were consuming large amounts of red meat, bacon, eggs, dairy, canned food...
Posted by: JERSEYDAN
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Posted by: maxfrisson on Jul 27, 2009 6:24 AM
Current rating: 3 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
But why would you rather have tasteless faux food to possibly live a couple more miserable years? Food is Joy, leave it alone. I have never had as a goal how long I could live but rather how much I could enjoy the time I had. Denying myself never has been in the equaltion.
I would much rather die fat and happy of a massive heart attack.
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» RE: Why the obcession with be old?
Posted by: djkrugger
» RE: right
Posted by: clresu
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Posted by: zooeyhall on Jul 27, 2009 6:26 AM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
I think there were two factors that helped. First, I think it was something with genetics (all of my grandfather's family lived well into their nineties). Also neither of them smoked. The second was that they just did a LOT of hard physical work back then. All farm labor was done by hand--scooping corn, digging post holes, hauling hay.
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» RE: my grandparents lived into their 90's
Posted by: JenniferBedingfield
» farmers of 50 years ago--no fat butts!
Posted by: zooeyhall
» Some more interesting thoughts about the farmers and foods.
Posted by: JenniferBedingfield
» RE: Some more interesting thoughts about the farmers and foods.
Posted by: progressiveview
» RE: Some more interesting thoughts about the farmers and foods.
Posted by: JenniferBedingfield
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Posted by: solrev on Jul 27, 2009 6:29 AM
Current rating: 4 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
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» RE: I want my meat and I will eat it too
Posted by: djkrugger
» RE: I want my meat and I will eat it too
Posted by: progressiveview
» RE: hunter-gatherers and other relatives
Posted by: clresu
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Posted by: ETSpoon on Jul 27, 2009 6:37 AM
Current rating: 4 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
In other words one can eat what he wants as long as it is in moderation and he regularly exercises.
My grandparents ate what author Michael Pollan calls the Western diet: meat, potatoes, gravy, bread, eggs, bacon, etc. They were, however, farmers of the old school, i.e. they worked. Up before dawn, milk the cows by hand and then breakfast. Grand-dad off to the fields to plow, cultivate (pre-herbicide, therefore organic), mow, bail hay and so on and so forth. Grandma feeds the chickens, collects eggs, makes pies, prepares noon meal, "dinner," washes dishes, cultivates garden, rounds up and herds dairy cattle in for evening milking, and so on and so forth. Grand-dad helps with milking, then feeds hogs. Then it is time for supper, generally a lighter meal than noon "dinner."
Now you can barley find an American farmer over the age of fifty who doesn't have some kind of coronary disease or other. It's even hard to find a small town kid who doesn't drive two blocks to the convenience store for a sugar soda pop, bag of chips and a pack of smokes.
And we can't forget all the urban and suburban lard butts who would rather drive than walk.
Half of all illnesses associated with diet in this country could be eliminated by the simple expedient of eliminating processed foods, eating in moderation and walking.
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» Good points and salient as well
Posted by: wolfgangmo75
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Posted by: vasumurti on Jul 27, 2009 6:55 AM
Current rating: 3 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
"Nothing will benefit human health and increase chances for survival of life on earth as much as the evolution to a vegetarian diet."
---Albert Einstein
"Each year, the meat industrial complex abuses and butchers nearly 9 billion cows, pigs, sheep, turkeys, chickens, and other innocent, feeling animals just for the enjoyment of consumers. Each year, nearly 1.5 million of these consumers are crippled and killed prematurely by heart failure, cancer, stroke, and other chronic diseases that have been linked conclusively with the consumption of these animals. Each year, millions of other animals are abused and sacrificed in a vain search for a 'magic pill' that would vanquish these largely self-inflicted diseases."
---Alex Hershaft, PhD, president, Farm Animal Reform Movement
When analyzing 8,300 deaths in the United States, United Kingdom, and Germany among 76,000 men and women in five different, large studies, researchers concluded that vegetarians have a 24 percent reduction in death from heart disease.
Similarly, in the famous Oxford Vegetarian Study, where 6,000 vegetarians were compared with 5,000 meat-eaters over nearly two decades, scientists found that the rate of death from heart disease was 28 percent lower in vegetarians than in meat-eaters.
One study analyzed eighty scientific studies in leading medical journals. The analysis found that vegetarians had lower blood pressure, and were less likely to suffer from stroke, heart attack, and kidney failure.
A large German study of nearly 2,000 vegetarians found that deaths from heart disease were reduced by over one-third, and that heart disease itself was far less than that of the general population.
Another large study examined the coronary artery disease risk of young adults ages 18 to 30 and vegetarians were found to have much higher levels of cardiovascular fitness and a greatly reduced risk of heart disease.
"The process of gradual blocking of the coronary arteries begins not in adulthood but in childhood...and the main cause of this arteriosclerosis is the steadily increasing amount of fat in the American diet, particularly saturated animal fats such as those found in meat, chicken, milk and cheeses. If there was another disease that caused half a million deaths a year, you can be sure that the public would be acutely aware of the danger, and that the cure or prevention would be universally practiced."
---Dr. Benjamin Spock, author, child expert
"I don't understand why asking people to eat a well-balanced vegetarian diet is considered drastic, while it is medically conservative to cut people open and put them on powerful cholesterol-lowering drugs for the rest of their lives."
---Dr. Dean Ornish, author, Reversing Heart Disease
Stroke is the third leading cause of death behind heart disease and cancer. Vegetarians have a 20 to 30 percent reduced risk of having a stroke. Stroke, like heart disease, is associated with diets high in saturated fats, and the vegetarian diet is naturally low in these fats.
The Oxford Vegetarian Study found cancer mortality to be 39 percent lower among vegetarians when compared with meat-eaters. The European Prospective Investigation of Cancer found vegetarians suffer 40 percent fewer cancers than the general population.
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Posted by: vasumurti on Jul 27, 2009 6:56 AM
Current rating: 2 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Ovarian, uterine, and endometrial cancers have all been shown to be strongly correlated to the amount of animal fat in one's diet, and vegetarian women have significantly lower rates of these cancers.
"The beef industry has contributed to more American deaths than all the wars of this century, all the natural disasters, and all automobile accidents combined."
---Dr. Neal Barnard, Executive Director, Physicians Committee for Responsible Medicine
"Vegetarians have the best diet. They have the lowest rate of coronary disease of any group in the country. They have a fraction of our heart attack rate and they have only 40 percent of our cancer rate."
---William Castelli, MD, Director, Framingham Heart Study
"Human beings are not natural carnivores. When we kill animals to eat them, they end up killing us because their flesh, which contains cholesterol and saturated fat, was never intended for human beings, who are natural herbivores."
---Dr. William Roberts, editor-in-chief, American Journal of Cardiology
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» RE: Is tobacco healthy, too? (cont'd)
Posted by: progressiveview
» RE: Is tobacco healthy, too? (cont'd) Part 2
Posted by: progressiveview
» Studies show that neurological disease kills more vegetarians than omnivores. B12.
Posted by: Beck
» Green leafy plants are rich in iron
Posted by: Paul_C
» Fact check : "Green leafy plants are rich in iron " ...FALSE
Posted by: Quist
» Well, spinach is a good source and it is green and leafy - it is a general rule, not absolute
Posted by: Paul_C
Comments are closed-
Posted by: leafsong1 on Jul 27, 2009 8:03 AM
Current rating: 2 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Seriously, the article was written for fools, which should lead the discerning readers of Alternet to see it as obvious corporate PR. Why doesn't it strike the editors at Alternet the same way?
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» Shoot the messenger, in other words.
Posted by: ETSpoon
» How is this any different than the continuous VEGAN ONLY propaganda posted almost weekly here?
Posted by: Quist
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Posted by: msegedy on Jul 27, 2009 8:21 AM
Current rating: 4 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
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» Well said and I felt the same way when I read the article.
Posted by: Quist
» Not all science is created equal
Posted by: westomoon
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Posted by: melusine on Jul 27, 2009 8:23 AM
Current rating: 4 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
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Posted by: CaliJim on Jul 27, 2009 9:34 AM
Current rating: 4 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
When the push to eliminate fat and increase the consumption of "Complex Carbohydrates" occurred in the 70's, at the urging of my friends and family (who were sure my diet was going to kill me) I consciously changed my diet...and my cholesterol levels, blood pressure and weight all increased significantly. I tried to eat "right" even more strongly...with additional increases in weight, cholesterol levels and blood pressure. During this time, I was still doing my established exercise program, with weight training and running...which didn't prevent the increases in weight, cholesterol and blood pressure.
After leaving McDonald's in the mid 80's, struggled with the weight and blood pressure until I read a book called "Protein Power" by the husband and wife doctor team of the last name Eades. (as well as a follow up book "Protein Power Life Plan"), both of which stress low carbohydrate intake, while only being concerned about fat as a source of calories. The original reason for reading the book was an attempt to increase muscle mass through my weight lifting program (which worked well, actually), but what I found was that I started losing weight, my cholesterol and blood pressure improved significantly, as well as getting stronger.
The information presented in the books linked carbohydrates to chronic high insulin levels in the blood, insulin resistance, increased fat storage, weight gain and other unhealthy results, very effectively. Heck...our parents and grandparents knew the score...They said, if you eat potatoes, pasta and other "complex carbohydrates" and you get fat. Diet plates were cottage cheese, meat and the like...which supports the information in the books, as well as the information in this story.
For years now, I've eaten only real butter, drink half and half in my coffee, have steak or other beef products probably 3 or 4 times a week at a minimum and generally don't worry about fat content, while being careful about portion sizes and trying to avoid snack foods. At nearly 6' 2", I weigh right at 180lbs consistently, all my blood numbers were in the normal range on my last physical and I can still lift more weight than most of the much younger guys at the gym...at 62 years old!
It's not the fat, people, it's the portion sizes, carbohydrates and junk snack foods! Please open your minds and at least give a low carb diet a chance. You may be surprised.
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» Jim, you sound like a blood type "O"
Posted by: westomoon
» RE: Jim, you sound like a blood type "O"
Posted by: CaliJim
» Why bother?
Posted by: westomoon
» RE: Why bother?
Posted by: CaliJim
» Mcdonalds shill
Posted by: maxpayne
Comments are closed-
Posted by: magistre on Jul 27, 2009 9:34 AM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
I'm not citing what I learned as authoritative but I think one of the major problems that we as a society have is too many "experts". We don't know who to believe so we tend to go with "the view" that feels "comfortable". Get "Free Enterprise" out of the knowledge "business".
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» So true...so true.
Posted by: Quist
Comments are closed-
Posted by: Paul_C on Jul 27, 2009 10:01 AM
Current rating: 3 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
The first idea is a strawman argument because it confuses all of the problems of today's corporate, highly processed diet with a vague public unease over consumption of fat. Of course if you substitute one crappy corporate diet with another crappy corporate diet you are going to get crappy outcomes.
The real issue is the rise of obesity with the rise of the corporate diet.
For example, the argument that fat is filling and keeps us from eating tons of sugar and processed flour misses the point that whole grain breads and pastas not only contain diverse, healthy, natural oils in small, healthy metered doses accompanied by a rich array of other nutrients, but they are also complex carbohydrates that break down slowly and so also give the sense of being full.
Processed, extracted and concentrated fats, or carbs for that matter, have none of the advantages of whole grains, none, while having loads of problems, such as obesity, diabetes and clogged arteries.
The second idea, that fat studies have been ambiguous, speaks more to the studies themselves: who commissioned them for what purpose and using what criteria.
Dr. Caldwell Esselstyn in his book "How to prevent and reverse heart disease" observes that virtually all fat studies view a conservative intake of fat to be 24 grams per day or even more. Yet Esselstein, who has been studying and researching heart disease for decades, says that his studies show conclussively that anything over about 11 grams a day is deadly. His motto is "moderation kills".
And that 11 grams has to be from natural, healthy sources where the oils are bound up with other essential nutrients such as antioxidants, and where the oils are diverse and complex rather than a single concentrated type.
The reason that small amounts of bad fats are deadly? Excess fat in the blood causes a chain reaction of free radicals that create "gunk" (my word) that forms plague. Esselstein has shown how his diet actually reverses coronary disease and his book has photos of clogged arteries turning into healthy ones due to his diet.
Esselstyn tells of 27 patients refered to him, all deemed so advanced with heart disease that nothing could be done for them. They were put on his diet. Two dropped out because they didn't like the diet and died. The others stabilized or had complete reversals within two years - no signs of disease.
When Esselstyn's book was covered in The Plain Dealer, they interviewed the head of cardiology at one of the leading heart centers in the world. He did not discount what Esselstyn was saying, instead he argued it was not a large scale study, with the caveat (my best recollection of his words): "studies are funded by drug companies and drug companies will never fund such a study".
I read a similar thing regarding another researcher who was trying to be heard about how to cure diabetes through healthy diet (here on Alternet?), whose speaking appearance at a seminar was cancelled in favor of a drug-industry backed researcher trying to "improve outcomes" through drugs.
peace,
Paul
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» RE: This article is a study in mindless propaganda rife with illogic and half-truths
Posted by: Caleb Darkstar
» Paul, how is this different than many of the articles about diet posted on AlterNet?
Posted by: Quist
» Did you have anything of substance to say, Quist?
Posted by: Paul_C
» Not to you because it would be a waste of time. Thanks for another ad hominem attack btw.
Posted by: Quist
» I don't dismiss people who actually have something rational to say -
Posted by: Paul_C
» Do not feed the trolls! n/m
Posted by: Paul_C
Comments are closed-
Posted by: vasumurti on Jul 27, 2009 10:27 AM
Current rating: 2 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
"The Comparative Anatomy of Eating", by Milton R. Mills, MD
Which category are humans most suited for?
*Facial Muscles*
CARNIVORE: Reduced to allow wide mouth gape
OMNIVORE: Reduced
HERBIVORE: Well-developed
HUMAN: Well-developed
*Jaw Type*
CARNIVORE: Angle not expanded
HERBIVORE: Expanded angle
OMNIVORE: Angle not expanded
HUMAN: Expanded angle
*Jaw Joint Location*
CARNIVORE: On same plane as molar teeth
HERBIVORE: Above the plane of the molars
OMNIVORE: On same plane as molar teeth
HUMAN: Above the plane of the molars
*Jaw Motion*
CARNIVORE: Shearing; minimal side-to-side motion
HERBIVORE: No shear; good side-to-side, front-to-back
OMNIVORE: Shearing; minimal side-to-side
HUMAN: No shear; good side-to-side, front-to-back
*Major Jaw Muscles*
CARNIVORE: Temporalis
HERBIVORE: Masseter and pterygoids
OMNIVORE: Temporalis
HUMAN: Masseter and pterygoids
*Mouth Opening vs. Head Size*
CARNIVORE: Large
HERBIVORE: Small
OMNIVORE: Large
HUMAN: Small
*Teeth: Incisors*
CARNIVORE: Short and pointed
HERBIVORE: Broad, flattened and spade shaped
OMNIVORE: Short and pointed
HUMAN: Broad, flattened and spade shaped
*Teeth: Canines*
CARNIVORE: Long, sharp and curved
HERBIVORE: Dull and short or long (for defense), or none
OMNIVORE: Long, sharp and curved
HUMAN: Short and blunted
*Teeth: Molars*
CARNIVORE: Sharp, jagged and blade shaped
HERBIVORE: Flattened with cusps vs complex surface
OMNIVORE: Sharp blades and/or flattened
HUMAN: Flattened with nodular cusps
*Chewing*
CARNIVORE: None; swallows food whole
HERBIVORE: Extensive chewing necessary
OMNIVORE: Swallows food whole and/or simple crushing
HUMAN: Extensive chewing necessary
*Saliva*
CARNIVORE: No digestive enzymes
HERBIVORE: Carbohydrate digesting enzymes
OMNIVORE: No digestive enzymes
HUMAN: Carbohydrate digesting enzymes
*Stomach Type*
CARNIVORE: Simple
HERBIVORE: Simple or multiple chambers
OMNIVORE: Simple
HUMAN: Simple
*Stomach Acidity*
CARNIVORE: Less than or equal to pH 1 with food in stomach
HERBIVORE: pH 4 to 5 with food in stomach
OMNIVORE: Less than or equal to pH 1 with food in stomach
HUMAN: pH 4 to 5 with food in stomach
*Stomach Capacity*
CARNIVORE: 60% to 70% of total volume of digestive tract
HERBIVORE: Less than 30% of total volume of digestive tract
OMNIVORE: 60% to 70% of total volume of digestive tract
HUMAN: 21% to 27% of total volume of digestive tract
*Length of Small Intestine*
CARNIVORE: 3 to 6 times body length
HERBIVORE: 10 to more than 12 times body length
OMNIVORE: 4 to 6 times body length
HUMAN: 10 to 11 times body length
*Colon*
CARNIVORE: Simple, short and smooth
HERBIVORE: Long, complex; may be sacculated
OMNIVORE: Simple, short and smooth
HUMAN: Long, sacculated
*Liver*
CARNIVORE: Can detoxify vitamin A
HERBIVORE: Cannot detoxify vitamin A
OMNIVORE: Can detoxify vitamin A
HUMAN: Cannot detoxify vitamin A
*Kidney*
CARNIVORE: Extremely concentrated urine
HERBIVORE: Moderately concentrated urine
OMNIVORE: Extremely concentrated urine
HUMAN: Moderately concentrated urine
*Nails*
CARNIVORE: Sharp claws
HERBIVORE: Flattened nails or blunt hooves
OMNIVORE: Sharp claws
HUMAN: Flattened nails
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» RE: "The Comparative Anatomy of Eating" by Dr. Milton Mills
Posted by: olderworker
» I posted a piece just above. Funny, I don't see anything thought provoking from you, Quist... n/m
Posted by: Paul_C
» Please...all you did was cut and pasted an article from someone who cut and pasted an article.
Posted by: Quist
» I'm sorry, vasumurti posted this one this time.
Posted by: Quist
» Whether 10, 15, or 20 times, it is relevant,
Posted by: clresu
» What are you saying Beck, that any response, right, wrong, insane, is "expected"?
Posted by: Paul_C
» Oops, when I said "wealth of ideas" I was refering to vasumurti's later postings! Nonetheless,
Posted by: Paul_C
» Do not feed the trolls! n/m
Posted by: Paul_C
» ...but you supposedly just did. Ohhh the irony.
Posted by: Quist
Comments are closed-
Posted by: maddy on Jul 27, 2009 10:50 AM
Current rating: 4 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Finally, a food article that isn't another go-vegan harangue.
I've posted on this topic numerous times, so please forgive me for saying this yet again.
I am now 34 years old, and I was on my first diet at 12. Always low-fat, always severe calorie restriction. The dieting made me more obsessive about food--especially because I was hungry all of the time. I would lose weight for a few weeks, maybe three months if I really white-knuckled it, but there's only so many carrots, pretzels and rice cakes one can eat before they can't take it anymore. (And, of course, little did I realize that all that sugar in those "diet" foods just made me more hungry.) At 22, my total cholesterol was 253, my blood triglycerides 1100 (normal is 100!).
For a 7 year stretch in my 20s I was either vegetarian or vegan because I bought the political argument that it was the only way to eat ethically. Not only did I get even fatter, but I developed numerous health problems--cancer, skin lesions, digestive stuff, renewed asthma--and over the course of the 7 years, I developed allergies to both wheat and soy.
Well, tired of being sick all of the time and fat all of the time, I decided to follow the dieting "logic" of this piece--adding back lean animal protein, some dairy, and good vegetable fat while eliminating all refined carbohydrates, breads, and rice.
And guess what? Blood work is immaculate, I lost weight more easily than I ever have (and this is 20 years of dieting talking) and have had no trouble keeping it off. I have more energy, my skin is better, everything. The biggest blessing, though, is not worrying constantly about what I'm eating or not eating, or denying myself dinner because my lunch was too fatty, or feeling guilty at night because I plowed through a whole box of cookies. The sugar cravings are GONE. And I've experienced a kind of "freedom" from being constantly fixated on it, so much so that I'm convinced that sugar addiction is every bit as real as nicotine addiction.
So, again, thank you--it was nice to have this article instead of another self-righteous rant from the must-be-vegan camp. Veganism nearly killed me.
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» RE: Can I just say thank you?
Posted by: CaliJim
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Posted by: westomoon on Jul 27, 2009 11:06 AM
Current rating: 4 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
I've been observing the cholesterol craze with amazement for years -- there is no data that supports what we all know to be true, that high "bad" cholesterol causes cardiovascular problems. And there is plenty to show that, for most people, there is no correlation between cholesterol levels and cardiovascular disease. AlterNet reprinted a terrific article by Maggie Mahar in 2008 that detailed the findings on this issue. . *grinning* The comments for that article consisted largely of people arguing over how to reduce cholesterol. We have been so programmed on this topic that they seemed not to have been able to to process the content of the article at all -- just reacted with superstitious dread to the mention of cholesterol.
While I was looking up the cholesterol article, I came across two more by Mahar that also address / debunk assumptions in this article. There's one on obesity and the assumptions that have been disproved regarding it, and another on how we've been misled about the actual risk of some of the big "scare" diseases, including cardiovascular ones.
I tend to regard the George Bushes of the world -- fundamentalists, neocons, and rednecks -- as the people who don't understand or appreciate science. But a lot of us progressives and neutral types also seem to have a real preference for dogma over scientific fact.
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» RE: Hard to kill a myth
Posted by: CaliJim
» RE: Hard to kill a myth
Posted by: progressiveview
» Reading comprehension
Posted by: westomoon
Comments are closed-
Posted by: vasumurti on Jul 27, 2009 12:27 PM
Current rating: 1 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Flesh-eating animals lap water with their tongue, whereas vegetarian animals imbibe liquids by a suction process. Humans are classified as primates and are thus frugivores possessing a set of completely herbivorous teeth. Proponents of the theory that humans should be classified as omnivores note that human beings do, in fact, possess a modified form of canine teeth. However, these so-called "canine teeth" are much more prominent in animals that traditionally never eat flesh, such as apes, camels, and the male musk deer.
It must also be noted that the shape, length and hardness of these so-called "canine teeth" can hardly be compared to those of true carnivorous animals. A principle factor in determining the hardness of teeth is the phosphate of magnesia content. Human teeth usually contain 1.5 percent phosphate of magnesia, whereas the teeth of carnivores are composed of nearly 5 percent phosphate of magnesia. It is for this reason they are able to break through the bones of their prey, and reach the nutritious marrow.
Zoologist Desmond Morris makes a case for vegetarianism in his 1967 book, The Naked Ape: "It could be argued that, since our primate ancestors had to make do without a major meat component in their diets we should be able to do the same. We were driven to become flesh eaters only by environmental circumstances, and now that we have the environment under control, with elaborately cultivated crops at our disposal, we might be expected to return to our ancient feeding patterns."
In The Human Story, edited by Marie-Louise Makris (1985), we read: "...recent studies of their teeth reveal that the Australopithecines did not eat meat as a regular part of their diet, and were mainly peaceful vegetarians, rather like chimps or gorillas. The popular image of the murderous ape is now as extinct as the Australopithecines themselves."
Dr. Gordon Latto notes that carnivorous and omnivorous animals can only move their jaws up and down, and that omnivores "have a blunt tooth, a sharp tooth, a blunt tooth, a sharp tooth--showing that they were destined to deal both with flesh foods from the animal kingdom and foods from the vegetable kingdom...
"Carnivorous mammals and omnivorous mammals cannot perspire except at the extremity of the limbs and the tip of the nose; man perspires all over the body. Finally, our instincts; the carnivorous mammal (which first of all has claws and canine teeth) is capable of tearing flesh asunder, whereas man only partakes of flesh foods after they have been camouflaged by cooking and by condiments.
"Man instinctively is not carnivorous," explains Dr. Latto. "...he takes the flesh food after somebody else has killed it, and after it has been cooked and camouflaged with certain condiments. Whereas to pick an apple off a tree or eat some grain or a carrot is a natural thing to do; people enjoy doing it; they don't feel disturbed by it. But to see these animals being slaughtered does affect people; it offends them. Even the toughest of people are affected by the sights in the slaughterhouse.
"I remember taking some medical students into a slaughterhouse. They were about as hardened people as you could meet. After seeing the animals slaughtered that day in the slaughterhouse, not one of them could eat the meat that evening."
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» Take the medical students to an Amish farm
Posted by: Beck
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Posted by: vasumurti on Jul 27, 2009 12:29 PM
Current rating: 2 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
"The gorge of a cat, for instance, will rise at the smell of a mouse or a piece of raw flesh, but not at the aroma of fruit. If a man can take delight in pouncing upon a bird, tear its still living body apart with his teeth, sucking the warm blood, one might infer that Nature had provided him with a carnivorous instinct, but the very thought of doing such a thing makes him shudder. On the other hand, a bunch of luscious grapes makes his mouth water, and even in the absence of hunger, he will eat fruit to gratify taste."
As far back as 1961, the Journal of the American Medical Association reported that: "A vegetarian diet can prevent 97% of our coronary occlusions." More recently, William S. Collens and Gerald B. Dobkens concluded: "Examination of the dental structure of modern man reveals that he possesses all the features of a strictly herbivorous animal. While designed to subsist on vegetarian foods, he has perverted his dietary habits to accept food of the carnivore. It is postulated that man cannot handle carnivorous foods like the carnivore. Herein may lie the basis for the high incidence of arteriosclerotic disease."
Keith Akers in A Vegetarian Sourcebook (1983), responds to the argument that killing animals for food is natural:
"This is quite an admirable argument. It explains practically everything; why we do not eat each other, except under conditions of unusual stress; why we may kill certain other animals (they are, in the order of nature, food for us); even why we should be kind to pets and try to help miscellaneous wildlife (they are not naturally our food). There are some problems with the idea that an order of nature determines which species are food for us, but an examination of human history indicates the broad outlines of just such an order, though inhibitions against eating certain species may vary from culture to culture.
"The main problem with this argument is that it does not justify the practice of meat-eating or animal husbandry as we know it today; it justifies hunting. The distinction between hunting and animal husbandry probably seems rather fine to the man in the street, or even to your typical rule-utilitarian moral philosopher. The distinction, however, is obvious to an ecologist. If one defends killing on the grounds that it occurs in nature, then one is defending the practice as it occurs in nature.
"When one species of animal preys on another in nature, it only preys on a very small proportion of the total species population. Obviously, the predator species relies on its prey for its continued survival. Therefore, to wipe the prey species out through overhunting would be fatal. In practice, members of such predator species rely on such strategies as territoriality to restrict overhunting and to insure the continued existence of its food supply.
"Moreover, only the weakest members of the prey species are the predator's victims: the feeble, the sick, the lame, or the young accidentally separated from the fold. The life of the typical zebra is usually placid, even in lion country; this kind of violence is the exception in nature, not the rule.
"As it exists in the wild, hunting is the preying upon isolated members of an animal herd. Animal husbandry is the nearly complete annihilation of an animal herd. In nature, this kind of slaughter does not exist. The philosopher is free to argue that there is no moral difference between hunting and slaughter, but he cannot invoke nature as a defense of this idea.
"Why are hunters, not butchers, most frequently taken to task by the larger community for their killing of animals?...If any form of meat-eating is justified, it would be meat from a hunted animal."
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Posted by: vasumurti on Jul 27, 2009 12:30 PM
Current rating: 1 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
"Killing an animal is in itself a troubling act. It has been said that if we had to kill our own meat we would all be vegetarians. There may be exceptions to that general rule, but it is true that most people prefer not to inquire into the killing of the animals they eat.
"Very few people ever visit a slaughterhouse; and films of slaughterhouse operations are rarely shown on television...Yet those who, by their purchases, require animals to be killed have no right to be shielded from this or any other aspect of the production of the meat they buy.
"If it is distasteful for humans to think about, what can it be like for the animals to experience it?"
Peter Singer concludes in Animal Liberation that "by ceasing to rear and kill animals for food, we can make extra food available for humans that, properly distributed, it would eliminate starvation and malnutrition from this planet. Animal Liberation is Human Liberation, too."
Dr. Milton Mills' "The Comparative Anatomy of Eating,"
www.vegsource.com/veg_faq/comparative.htm
and the Physicians Committee for Responsible Medicine,
www.pcrm.org ,
argue persuasively that the optimal diet for humanity is a vegan diet. However, even if humans really are omnivores and not frugivores, the diet of natural omnivores is mostly (80 percent) plant food.
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» Vegetarian true believers are out in force, huh?
Posted by: CaliJim
» If people evolved as carnivores why do we and our ancestors have the bodies of frugivores?
Posted by: Paul_C
» Ahh Paul...just because you offer information does not mean it is factual or logical.
Posted by: Quist
» You are an idiot Quist. A broken record. I can't reason with you. n/m
Posted by: Paul_C
» If his "facts quoted" were not so full of holes
Posted by: melloe2
» Yes they are...but this happens everytime there is an article about food on AlterNet.
Posted by: Quist
» Scholarly and well researched as always, vasumurti. Thank you! n/m
Posted by: Paul_C
» It amazes you that I believe in myself? I am happy to debate anyone with some integrity Quist
Posted by: Paul_C
» Paul, if you had any integrity you would not dishonestly label all who disagree with you as trolls!
Posted by: Quist
» Go away, troll. I am done with you. n/m
Posted by: Paul_C
» Thank you for another demonstration of your childishness.
Posted by: Quist
Comments are closed-
Posted by: macro on Jul 27, 2009 1:21 PM
Current rating: 2 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
I don't have time to respond properly to this ridiculous article and maybe it doesn't deserve much comment. While I truly appreciate AlterNet I find that you occasionally and deliberately print provocative articles. Anyone with half a brain knows that eating saturated animal fat is unhealthy on every level. The quality is awful and the repercussions are deadly. I'm not a food fadist but I've been eating whole grains, lots of vegetables and fish, vegetable oils, etc., for many years and I'm in my 70's and in near perfect health. I know many others who do similarly who similar results. People who eat bacon, steak, excessive dairy, and all processed foods tend to be unhealthy and live shorter lives. There are many, many books and studies that will bear me out ranging from Dean Ornish MD to the macrobiotic guru, Michio Kushi. When you print articles like this you only perpetuate myths and confusion, but you do stir up your readers! Sincerely, Alan L.
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» RE: Alan L.
Posted by: progressiveview
» RE: Alan L.You must be kidding
Posted by: jrgjniew
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Posted by: JodiRD on Jul 27, 2009 1:35 PM
Current rating: 3 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
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Posted by: Lea on Jul 27, 2009 2:35 PM
Current rating: 2 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
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Posted by: aadinko on Jul 27, 2009 2:38 PM
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RT
Ultimate Anonymity
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Posted by: jejer on Jul 27, 2009 2:57 PM
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» And the research data that tells you this... ?
Posted by: westomoon
» RE: this article is so misleading
Posted by: CaliJim
» Like me?
Posted by: pied pie
» RE: Like me?
Posted by: jejer
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Posted by: outragedtoo on Jul 27, 2009 3:42 PM
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Yes, indeed, the latest news is that much of the advice from the nutritional establishment of just a couple of years ago is wrong. Animal fat, including lard, is now OK. Butter is better than margarine. Eggs are not so terrible either. But plants and vegetables can be laced with chemicals and salmonella. Some, like peanuts, bring terrible allergies.
If there is a lesson to be learned from this, it is to take the pronouncements of the nutritional establishment with a grain of salt (but not too much salt). And don't get stuck in some nutrition cult based on incomplete or lopsided information. Science is, after all, incremental.
When I was growing up in the 1950s, we consumed all the "terrible" stuff like whole milk, macaroni and cheese, butter, meat loaf, spaghetti and meatballs, steaks, fried chicken, real sugar on everything. Yet I remember we didn't have many fat kids — maybe 2 or 3 per class tops. Oh sure, we got out and rode our bikes and exercised more, but the fat kids did that too. An some of the nerds who didn't get out and exercise stayed skinny anyway.
Anecdotally, it doesn't seem to be either fat or exercise that made a difference back then. I'm assuming that the foods we ate back then, before industrial farming was in full swing, were more natural and nutritious. We still had a local farmer deliver milk to our door, for example.
Other than that, I think we still need to look at genetics. We may just be a population in which the "fat genes" have become more concentrated and expressed themselves widely. But that doesn't do much for the multi-billion dollar diet, nutrition and exercise industry.
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Posted by: mkarsh on Jul 27, 2009 7:36 PM
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Posted by: NedKelly on Jul 27, 2009 9:19 PM
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Posted by: StanEric on Jul 28, 2009 8:31 AM
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Gary
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Posted by: bookman_x on Jul 28, 2009 8:53 AM
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a diet that is high in animal fats is wholly and inarguably unsustainable, and this issue should be far more central to the debate than the public health and dietary concerns which the author seems to emphasize. of course fat makes food tastes better, and of course fat is a necessary component for a balanced diet in most individuals. both the diet gurus and the apologists are overly shrill and hysterical in making their point, while both simultaneously fail to grasp the larger issue, which is that our demand for meat products is destroying huge swaths of the planet.
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Posted by: Caesar77 on Jul 28, 2009 1:40 PM
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The bullshit that fat is a killer, is just that, bullshit.
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» Actually, you are partially right but your conclusion is wrong
Posted by: Paul_C
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Posted by: macro on Jul 29, 2009 10:03 AM
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» Alternet commenters aren't progressive on food, in the majority
Posted by: jparsons
» Here's a link to a mainstream article saying, guess what?
Posted by: jparsons
» RE: My, my, so many backward people.
Posted by: jrgjniew
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Posted by: rgd on Jul 29, 2009 7:28 PM
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Posted by: cowboyup1876 on Jul 29, 2009 10:07 PM
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Anti-fat groups started their campaign several years ago, causing alarm among health conscious Americans. As a result, the health conscious (who always ate a balanced diet and exercised regularly, the real keys to a health life) ate less animal fats. Those who were indifferent to the “health experts” (read anti-fat groups) continued to lead lazy lifestyles with unbalanced diets. Fast forward twenty years or so, these anti-fat groups do "studies" which involve two questions per person in the study, "Did you eat a lot of animal fat" and "Do you have heart problems". Of course, the health conscious answered "no" to both questions, while those who ignored the anti-fat groups answered "yes" to both questions.
These studies do not look at any other variables that are necessary to a good scientific study. As a researcher in my undergrad years, we were hounded by our professors to address any possible variables to conduct a good study. By influencing the test groups twenty years ago, any “historical data” they pull is bogus because they have too much variation in exercise and balance of diets. If they want a good study, they need to compare apples to apples by selecting people who have identical lifestyles and then making fat consumption the independent variable.
All in all, this article restates the obvious fact that if you trade a hot dog for a pork chop, potato chips for a baked potato, and soda pop for a glass of orange juice, you will be healthier. Add an hour of exercise instead of television, you will be doing great.
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» Did you read?
Posted by: maddy
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Posted by: itouch backup on Jul 30, 2009 7:32 PM
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Posted by: C. Rich on Aug 1, 2009 9:12 AM
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http://americaspeaksink.com/?s=swine+flu+Obama
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Posted by: phatkhat on Aug 1, 2009 4:41 PM
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I believe in eating what you like - because no one will stick to eating what they don't like - and maybe learning to like some things like different veggies if you are not a veggie eater. But I think you have to watch how MUCH you eat, and portion control along with more exercise is the most sensible and easiest way to lose weight. (Not that it is EVER easy, LOL.)
But I know that when I cut back on "bad" fats and excess sugars, I feel really pretty good. If I eat much fat, I feel sick. I tried the Atkins diet years ago when it was new and radical, and I lost a LOT of weight. I also got very, very sick. I simply cannot eat things like steak - because they make me feel bad. And bacon is horrible - not only fatty but the nitrites!
The healthiest I've ever been was as an ovo-lacto-vegetarian. Don't take my cheese, please!
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Posted by: phindrup on Aug 2, 2009 8:16 PM
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As a consequence milk was used in little other than tea.
Porridge for breakfast — three and a half to four hours after getting up — brown sugar and cream. Bread, butter, jam and thick cream — akin to the English clotted cream.
Evening meal: roast mutton of some sort, and three vegetables from the following, potatoes, pumpkin, swede, cabbage, silver beet, kumeras, peas, beans, all with lashings of butter. It is worth noting that the meat made up less than a quarter of the meal.
Always ‘pudding’. Always with lashings of cream.
No one in our family was overweight!
As a teenager I fought, amateur boxing, hovering right on the 9 stone limit, and I, with my friends consumed milkshakes regularly. A milkshake comprised of milk, cream, malted milk and an egg. None of us were overweight!
At seventy it is only in the last few years that I have had to watch my weight, and only for a two or three kilos.
Love the fat edging fried/grilled ‘lamb chops. Would not use marine in a fit. — I mean, why bother?
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Posted by: Don Quixot on Aug 3, 2009 4:36 AM
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We have a growing number of people overweight, living sick and dying prematurely, literally killed by their own palate.
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Posted by: moyshekapoyre on Aug 3, 2009 4:39 PM
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It's a 90min. long lecture with lots of interesting stuff not included in my pathetic notes but in case you don't have time here's what I wrote down:
all calories are not the same. the excess calorie in to calorie out ratio theory of obesity doesn't work (exercise is great but not because it burns calories, since it burns them quite slowly). fructose calories are not glucose calories. fructose consumption (sucrose is fructose once ingested) leads to Metabolic Syndrome: hypertension, de novo lipogenesis, dyslipidemia, hepatic steatosis, inflammation, hepatic insulin resistance, obesity, CNS leptin resistance, promoting continuous consumption
any theory on obesity/dieting needs to address the boom in obese 6-month-old babies (you think they do less exercise or eat more than babies decades ago?). fructose as the cause does address this, since most of baby formula is fructose/sucrose, by volume.
even without formula, high sugar diets while pregnant can cause fetuses to become predisposed to obesity by changing their adiposity.
bottom line is a bottle of soda is just as bad long-term on all parts of the body as a bottle of beer, including obesity, though of course it isn't bad acutely as alcohol is, since sugar is not metabolized by the brain as alcohol is... but it is toxic to the liver.. it is "alcohol without the buzz."
the FDA's own rules say it regulates only acute and not chronic toxins when regulating food, which is why fructose is labeled as safe by FDA.
the food pyramid is created by the USDA, which has the main responsibility of selling food to other countries, not keeping us healthy
----
LDL is of two types. small dense pattern b (from fructose) which is bad for you and buoyant pattern a, which is neutral, and which comes from dietary fat. Since LDL is not split up in the blood analysis, you look at HDL and triglycerides to determine which LDL you have. low HDL and high triglycerides indicate you have a lot of the pattern b LDL which leads to heart disease.
we have more fructose now than ever before in our diets. the curve coincides with the obesity increase over the past few decades. the increased fructose in everything is because of the flawed 1970s Seven Countries study which correlated high fat diets to heart disease (flawed because it didn't take into account that the high fat diets also happened to be high fructose diets, and because back then it was not known that LDL was of 2 types), which led the gov't to call for a war on fat, which led to low-fat processed foods, and those taste like crap unless sweetened up.
despite what many people now think, high fructose corn syrup is not worse than sucrose, it is equally bad.
fructose in nature (i.e. an apple, NOT apple JUICE) is healthy because it is surrounded by a ton of fiber, which balances it out. fiber is very good for you in all kinds of ways, but it will make you fart. there is very little fiber in processed food (none in fast food except salad) because fiber reduces shelf life.
this doctor runs a clinic, and has excellent success getting people to be thin again and remit from type 2 diabetes mainly by cutting out ALL fructose/sucrose from their diets (i.e. no juices or sodas or cake etc, glucose is ok though, i.e. white grains etc). he says he can fix type 2 diabetes in one week.
it is true we are eating more since 40 years ago, but that is also likely due to fructose/sucrose, since they don't trigger the leptin response which tells our brain we are full, thus we end up with these "unaccounted for" calories--i.e. the reason we eat more calories without realizing it.
&lots more
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Posted by: Tequila Kid on Aug 7, 2009 6:52 AM
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To blandly claim, as you do, that the hypothesis "has never been proved" makes your entire article suspect. It's one thing to say that the hypothesis is disputed, controversial, being re-examined. But "never been proved" clearly marks you as a bullshit artist of the first water. I nominate you for the Dr. Josef Goebbels Prize for Creative Reporting and recommend that you be banned from AlterNet and recycled in the Nazi Review [a.k.a. National Review], a publication that specializes in this kind of gross distortion.
One of the editors of the Nazi Review is or was a pathological liar and pseudo-academic, the self-confessed "intellectual terrorist" Stephen Moore. He once claimed, among other Fascistoid ravings, that the US has the highest energy efficiency of any country, which is decisively refuted by all pertinent statistical data. In vain did I write to the Nazi Review to protest. Never got any reaction.
In my opinion, this article on dietary fat has the same scientific standing as the Bible.
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Posted by: boay on Aug 17, 2009 6:46 PM
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Posted by: boay on Aug 17, 2009 7:48 PM
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Posted by: DignityForAll on Jul 27, 2009 12:48 AM
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Also, for non-dairy cream or "whole milk" try homemade cashew milk (or peanut/almond/hemp-seed milk), it's really easy and fantastic on granola or in tea - recipe.
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» RE: Coconut oil is excellent
Posted by: anneliese-nyc
» RE: Coconut oil is excellent
Posted by: progressiveview
» Alternet's poor choice: putting a pic of hamburger and fries with this article
Posted by: Smackback
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Posted by: vision on Jul 27, 2009 12:55 AM
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» RE: Not Gary Taubes again...
Posted by: JERSEYDAN
» Funny, I stopped reading the whole article once I saw Gary Taubes.
Posted by: jparsons
» Just in case anybody thinks they have any new arguments on this or any vegetarian topic...
Posted by: jparsons
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Posted by: Carts on Jul 27, 2009 2:01 AM
Current rating: 2 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
According to www.dadamo.com
O bloods (40% pop'n)need meat, but can't tolerate dairy or wheat
A blood types (40%) are vegan - no meat or dairy and no wheat
B (15%) and AB (5%) are a mix
check out the website and don't fall for any "one diet fits all" misinformation
Oprah Winfrey is onto this now - she needs it - and it may work for her - she's a fatty!
What's your blood type?
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» RE: Blood type very important
Posted by: bcgirl125
» RE: Blood type very important
Posted by: Carts
» Blood type incompatibility diet
Posted by: Biflspud
» RE: Blood type very important
Posted by: lepidopteryx
» You and me both
Posted by: BlueTigress
» Not as important as phrenology!
Posted by: leafsong1
» RE: Blood type very important
Posted by: Unrepentant Heretic
» The blood type diet has helped me to make better food choices
Posted by: Smackback
» RE: Blood type very important
Posted by: MarchHare
» RE: Blood type very important ( Hold on now)
Posted by: Caleb Darkstar
» Thanks for shedding dark on the subject
Posted by: Nuanced
» I'm O-neg and love dairy ...
Posted by: Dankhank
» And good breads ...
Posted by: Dankhank
» RE: Blood type very important
Posted by: zorba1
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Posted by: seuss on Jul 27, 2009 2:43 AM
Current rating: 2 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
People can talk about blood types and Atkins and whatever else they choose to babble about, but the truth is that the only fats that are important (and they are very important,) are DHA and EPA, predominantly from fish, as the veggie sources typically are very lossy in their conversion into the right form, and GLA which supplementally comes from Borage or Evening primrose.
That's it. EPA, DHA, and GLA are the only "essential" fatty acids that we need. The rest can be manufactured through the general processes that our bodies go through. This desn't change if you're "type 'o'" or anything else. we are humans. our bodies do things. This is one of them.
fat is stored energy.
There's nothing wrong with a moderate accumulation of it.
You don't have to starve the body of its intended and traditional energy source, complex carbohydrates, in order to make yourself healthy. You may lose fat, but you'll sacrifice your well-being doing it. I guess it's fine if you are a fox news fan...
I can't wait for Limbaugh to endorse Atkins... Maybe then people will get it.
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» Simple sugars, sugars, sugars. (a/k/a simple carbohydrates)
Posted by: Quist
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Posted by: Fat Man at the Buffet Line on Jul 27, 2009 3:16 AM
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» RE: bought me a u bolt yesterday
Posted by: JERSEYDAN
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Posted by: Don Quixot on Jul 27, 2009 3:20 AM
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» Another fallacious vegan argument. BTW, present day plant life have plenty of toxins.
Posted by: Quist
» RE: Another fallacious vegan argument. BTW, present day plant life have plenty of toxins.
Posted by: Don Quixot
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Posted by: JenniferBedingfield on Jul 27, 2009 4:37 AM
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» I totally agree Jen.
Posted by: Quist
» Thanks Quist. I learned that lesson and yours the hard way. :(
Posted by: JenniferBedingfield
» RE: Thanks Quist. I learned that lesson and yours the hard way. :(
Posted by: progressiveview
» RE: Thanks Quist. I learned that lesson and yours the hard way. :(
Posted by: JenniferBedingfield
» RE: childhood foods :(
Posted by: clresu
» RE: childhood foods :(
Posted by: JenniferBedingfield
» RE: childhood foods :(
Posted by: clresu
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Posted by: Tom Holum on Jul 27, 2009 5:20 AM
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in all things.
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Posted by: gourdman on Jul 27, 2009 5:26 AM
Current rating: 3 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
MORE INFO
From The Cancer Project
"The World Health Organization has determined that dietary factors account for at least 30 percent of all cancers in Western countries and up to 20 percent in developing countries. When cancer researchers started to search for links between diet and cancer, one of the most noticeable findings was that people who avoided meat were much less likely to develop the disease. Large studies in England and Germany showed that vegetarians were about 40 percent less likely to develop cancer compared to meat eaters. In the United States, researchers studied Seventh-day Adventists, a religious group that is remarkable because, although nearly all members avoid tobacco and alcohol and follow generally healthful lifestyles, about half of the Adventist population is vegetarian, while the other half consumes modest amounts of meat. This fact allowed scientists to separate the effects of eating meat from other factors. Overall, these studies showed significant reductions in cancer risk among those who avoided meat. In contrast, Harvard studies showed that daily meat eaters have approximately three times the colon cancer risk, compared to those who rarely eat meat."
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» RE: This article misses the point
Posted by: snowhound
» RE: This article misses the point
Posted by: progressiveview
» plagiarizing Weston Price, tisk tisk.. the Maasai butcher women!
Posted by: jingles
» RE: This article misses the point
Posted by: progressiveview
» RE: This article misses the point -- part 2
Posted by: progressiveview
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Posted by: snowhound on Jul 27, 2009 5:36 AM
Current rating: 4 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
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» "Traditional Fats"?
Posted by: westomoon
» RE: "Traditional Fats"?
Posted by: progressiveview
» High temp cooking
Posted by: westomoon
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Posted by: Rainy24 on Jul 27, 2009 5:41 AM
Current rating: 3 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Eating animal fat and products causes an acid body which if she does the research she would know is harmful. In the article it is stated that people who don't eat meat, cake etc... will eat other junk to make up for it so therefore eat the meat, cake etc.... it's better. That's like saying if you don't eat a tub of lard each day you might eat too much sugar by the bucket-full so therefore eat the lard.
Why not say animal fat and sugar loaded chemical loaded foods are all bad. As Michael Pollen would say, Eat food, not too much, mostly plants.
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» RE: ating animal fat is not healthy no matter how you try to slice it.
Posted by: snowhound
» Rainy24, you hit on one of the fundamental flaws in this dangerous article
Posted by: limburger
» RE: ating animal fat is not healthy no matter how you try to slice it.
Posted by: jrgjniew
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Posted by: praedor on Jul 27, 2009 6:02 AM
Current rating: 3 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
The article also glosses over the damage done to public lands by preferring cattle to native wildlife and plants.
The higher fat foods may well be OK healthwise, but that isn't the only side of the issue. There is the environmental damage done as I list above, the diversion of food grains into less efficient "fattening up" of cows/hogs, and then there is the fact that it requires the mass killing of fearful, pain-feeling, advanced animals with the automatic desensitization of people to the pain and suffering of any and all OTHER animals. There is the follow-on move to try to wipe out coyotes, wolves, cougars, bears, etc, all for the sake of cattle baron wallets at at the expense of the greater ecosystem.
You cannot ignore the non-dietary harms when addressing the nutritional value of fatty meats.
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» RE: One of the major problems NOT addressed
Posted by: progressiveview
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Posted by: themotie on Jul 27, 2009 6:11 AM
Current rating: 3 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
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» Yeah...most grannies were consuming large amounts of red meat, bacon, eggs, dairy, canned food...
Posted by: Quist
» RE: Yeah...most grannies were consuming large amounts of red meat, bacon, eggs, dairy, canned food...
Posted by: JERSEYDAN
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Posted by: maxfrisson on Jul 27, 2009 6:24 AM
Current rating: 3 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
But why would you rather have tasteless faux food to possibly live a couple more miserable years? Food is Joy, leave it alone. I have never had as a goal how long I could live but rather how much I could enjoy the time I had. Denying myself never has been in the equaltion.
I would much rather die fat and happy of a massive heart attack.
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» RE: Why the obcession with be old?
Posted by: djkrugger
» RE: right
Posted by: clresu
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Posted by: zooeyhall on Jul 27, 2009 6:26 AM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
I think there were two factors that helped. First, I think it was something with genetics (all of my grandfather's family lived well into their nineties). Also neither of them smoked. The second was that they just did a LOT of hard physical work back then. All farm labor was done by hand--scooping corn, digging post holes, hauling hay.
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» RE: my grandparents lived into their 90's
Posted by: JenniferBedingfield
» farmers of 50 years ago--no fat butts!
Posted by: zooeyhall
» Some more interesting thoughts about the farmers and foods.
Posted by: JenniferBedingfield
» RE: Some more interesting thoughts about the farmers and foods.
Posted by: progressiveview
» RE: Some more interesting thoughts about the farmers and foods.
Posted by: JenniferBedingfield
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Posted by: solrev on Jul 27, 2009 6:29 AM
Current rating: 4 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
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» RE: I want my meat and I will eat it too
Posted by: djkrugger
» RE: I want my meat and I will eat it too
Posted by: progressiveview
» RE: hunter-gatherers and other relatives
Posted by: clresu
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Posted by: ETSpoon on Jul 27, 2009 6:37 AM
Current rating: 4 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
In other words one can eat what he wants as long as it is in moderation and he regularly exercises.
My grandparents ate what author Michael Pollan calls the Western diet: meat, potatoes, gravy, bread, eggs, bacon, etc. They were, however, farmers of the old school, i.e. they worked. Up before dawn, milk the cows by hand and then breakfast. Grand-dad off to the fields to plow, cultivate (pre-herbicide, therefore organic), mow, bail hay and so on and so forth. Grandma feeds the chickens, collects eggs, makes pies, prepares noon meal, "dinner," washes dishes, cultivates garden, rounds up and herds dairy cattle in for evening milking, and so on and so forth. Grand-dad helps with milking, then feeds hogs. Then it is time for supper, generally a lighter meal than noon "dinner."
Now you can barley find an American farmer over the age of fifty who doesn't have some kind of coronary disease or other. It's even hard to find a small town kid who doesn't drive two blocks to the convenience store for a sugar soda pop, bag of chips and a pack of smokes.
And we can't forget all the urban and suburban lard butts who would rather drive than walk.
Half of all illnesses associated with diet in this country could be eliminated by the simple expedient of eliminating processed foods, eating in moderation and walking.
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» Good points and salient as well
Posted by: wolfgangmo75
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Posted by: vasumurti on Jul 27, 2009 6:55 AM
Current rating: 3 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
"Nothing will benefit human health and increase chances for survival of life on earth as much as the evolution to a vegetarian diet."
---Albert Einstein
"Each year, the meat industrial complex abuses and butchers nearly 9 billion cows, pigs, sheep, turkeys, chickens, and other innocent, feeling animals just for the enjoyment of consumers. Each year, nearly 1.5 million of these consumers are crippled and killed prematurely by heart failure, cancer, stroke, and other chronic diseases that have been linked conclusively with the consumption of these animals. Each year, millions of other animals are abused and sacrificed in a vain search for a 'magic pill' that would vanquish these largely self-inflicted diseases."
---Alex Hershaft, PhD, president, Farm Animal Reform Movement
When analyzing 8,300 deaths in the United States, United Kingdom, and Germany among 76,000 men and women in five different, large studies, researchers concluded that vegetarians have a 24 percent reduction in death from heart disease.
Similarly, in the famous Oxford Vegetarian Study, where 6,000 vegetarians were compared with 5,000 meat-eaters over nearly two decades, scientists found that the rate of death from heart disease was 28 percent lower in vegetarians than in meat-eaters.
One study analyzed eighty scientific studies in leading medical journals. The analysis found that vegetarians had lower blood pressure, and were less likely to suffer from stroke, heart attack, and kidney failure.
A large German study of nearly 2,000 vegetarians found that deaths from heart disease were reduced by over one-third, and that heart disease itself was far less than that of the general population.
Another large study examined the coronary artery disease risk of young adults ages 18 to 30 and vegetarians were found to have much higher levels of cardiovascular fitness and a greatly reduced risk of heart disease.
"The process of gradual blocking of the coronary arteries begins not in adulthood but in childhood...and the main cause of this arteriosclerosis is the steadily increasing amount of fat in the American diet, particularly saturated animal fats such as those found in meat, chicken, milk and cheeses. If there was another disease that caused half a million deaths a year, you can be sure that the public would be acutely aware of the danger, and that the cure or prevention would be universally practiced."
---Dr. Benjamin Spock, author, child expert
"I don't understand why asking people to eat a well-balanced vegetarian diet is considered drastic, while it is medically conservative to cut people open and put them on powerful cholesterol-lowering drugs for the rest of their lives."
---Dr. Dean Ornish, author, Reversing Heart Disease
Stroke is the third leading cause of death behind heart disease and cancer. Vegetarians have a 20 to 30 percent reduced risk of having a stroke. Stroke, like heart disease, is associated with diets high in saturated fats, and the vegetarian diet is naturally low in these fats.
The Oxford Vegetarian Study found cancer mortality to be 39 percent lower among vegetarians when compared with meat-eaters. The European Prospective Investigation of Cancer found vegetarians suffer 40 percent fewer cancers than the general population.
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Posted by: vasumurti on Jul 27, 2009 6:56 AM
Current rating: 2 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Ovarian, uterine, and endometrial cancers have all been shown to be strongly correlated to the amount of animal fat in one's diet, and vegetarian women have significantly lower rates of these cancers.
"The beef industry has contributed to more American deaths than all the wars of this century, all the natural disasters, and all automobile accidents combined."
---Dr. Neal Barnard, Executive Director, Physicians Committee for Responsible Medicine
"Vegetarians have the best diet. They have the lowest rate of coronary disease of any group in the country. They have a fraction of our heart attack rate and they have only 40 percent of our cancer rate."
---William Castelli, MD, Director, Framingham Heart Study
"Human beings are not natural carnivores. When we kill animals to eat them, they end up killing us because their flesh, which contains cholesterol and saturated fat, was never intended for human beings, who are natural herbivores."
---Dr. William Roberts, editor-in-chief, American Journal of Cardiology
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» RE: Is tobacco healthy, too? (cont'd)
Posted by: progressiveview
» RE: Is tobacco healthy, too? (cont'd) Part 2
Posted by: progressiveview
» Studies show that neurological disease kills more vegetarians than omnivores. B12.
Posted by: Beck
» Green leafy plants are rich in iron
Posted by: Paul_C
» Fact check : "Green leafy plants are rich in iron " ...FALSE
Posted by: Quist
» Well, spinach is a good source and it is green and leafy - it is a general rule, not absolute
Posted by: Paul_C
Comments are closed-
Posted by: leafsong1 on Jul 27, 2009 8:03 AM
Current rating: 2 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Seriously, the article was written for fools, which should lead the discerning readers of Alternet to see it as obvious corporate PR. Why doesn't it strike the editors at Alternet the same way?
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» Shoot the messenger, in other words.
Posted by: ETSpoon
» How is this any different than the continuous VEGAN ONLY propaganda posted almost weekly here?
Posted by: Quist
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Posted by: msegedy on Jul 27, 2009 8:21 AM
Current rating: 4 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
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» Well said and I felt the same way when I read the article.
Posted by: Quist
» Not all science is created equal
Posted by: westomoon
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Posted by: melusine on Jul 27, 2009 8:23 AM
Current rating: 4 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
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Posted by: CaliJim on Jul 27, 2009 9:34 AM
Current rating: 4 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
When the push to eliminate fat and increase the consumption of "Complex Carbohydrates" occurred in the 70's, at the urging of my friends and family (who were sure my diet was going to kill me) I consciously changed my diet...and my cholesterol levels, blood pressure and weight all increased significantly. I tried to eat "right" even more strongly...with additional increases in weight, cholesterol levels and blood pressure. During this time, I was still doing my established exercise program, with weight training and running...which didn't prevent the increases in weight, cholesterol and blood pressure.
After leaving McDonald's in the mid 80's, struggled with the weight and blood pressure until I read a book called "Protein Power" by the husband and wife doctor team of the last name Eades. (as well as a follow up book "Protein Power Life Plan"), both of which stress low carbohydrate intake, while only being concerned about fat as a source of calories. The original reason for reading the book was an attempt to increase muscle mass through my weight lifting program (which worked well, actually), but what I found was that I started losing weight, my cholesterol and blood pressure improved significantly, as well as getting stronger.
The information presented in the books linked carbohydrates to chronic high insulin levels in the blood, insulin resistance, increased fat storage, weight gain and other unhealthy results, very effectively. Heck...our parents and grandparents knew the score...They said, if you eat potatoes, pasta and other "complex carbohydrates" and you get fat. Diet plates were cottage cheese, meat and the like...which supports the information in the books, as well as the information in this story.
For years now, I've eaten only real butter, drink half and half in my coffee, have steak or other beef products probably 3 or 4 times a week at a minimum and generally don't worry about fat content, while being careful about portion sizes and trying to avoid snack foods. At nearly 6' 2", I weigh right at 180lbs consistently, all my blood numbers were in the normal range on my last physical and I can still lift more weight than most of the much younger guys at the gym...at 62 years old!
It's not the fat, people, it's the portion sizes, carbohydrates and junk snack foods! Please open your minds and at least give a low carb diet a chance. You may be surprised.
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» Jim, you sound like a blood type "O"
Posted by: westomoon
» RE: Jim, you sound like a blood type "O"
Posted by: CaliJim
» Why bother?
Posted by: westomoon
» RE: Why bother?
Posted by: CaliJim
» Mcdonalds shill
Posted by: maxpayne
Comments are closed-
Posted by: magistre on Jul 27, 2009 9:34 AM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
I'm not citing what I learned as authoritative but I think one of the major problems that we as a society have is too many "experts". We don't know who to believe so we tend to go with "the view" that feels "comfortable". Get "Free Enterprise" out of the knowledge "business".
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» So true...so true.
Posted by: Quist
Comments are closed-
Posted by: Paul_C on Jul 27, 2009 10:01 AM
Current rating: 3 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
The first idea is a strawman argument because it confuses all of the problems of today's corporate, highly processed diet with a vague public unease over consumption of fat. Of course if you substitute one crappy corporate diet with another crappy corporate diet you are going to get crappy outcomes.
The real issue is the rise of obesity with the rise of the corporate diet.
For example, the argument that fat is filling and keeps us from eating tons of sugar and processed flour misses the point that whole grain breads and pastas not only contain diverse, healthy, natural oils in small, healthy metered doses accompanied by a rich array of other nutrients, but they are also complex carbohydrates that break down slowly and so also give the sense of being full.
Processed, extracted and concentrated fats, or carbs for that matter, have none of the advantages of whole grains, none, while having loads of problems, such as obesity, diabetes and clogged arteries.
The second idea, that fat studies have been ambiguous, speaks more to the studies themselves: who commissioned them for what purpose and using what criteria.
Dr. Caldwell Esselstyn in his book "How to prevent and reverse heart disease" observes that virtually all fat studies view a conservative intake of fat to be 24 grams per day or even more. Yet Esselstein, who has been studying and researching heart disease for decades, says that his studies show conclussively that anything over about 11 grams a day is deadly. His motto is "moderation kills".
And that 11 grams has to be from natural, healthy sources where the oils are bound up with other essential nutrients such as antioxidants, and where the oils are diverse and complex rather than a single concentrated type.
The reason that small amounts of bad fats are deadly? Excess fat in the blood causes a chain reaction of free radicals that create "gunk" (my word) that forms plague. Esselstein has shown how his diet actually reverses coronary disease and his book has photos of clogged arteries turning into healthy ones due to his diet.
Esselstyn tells of 27 patients refered to him, all deemed so advanced with heart disease that nothing could be done for them. They were put on his diet. Two dropped out because they didn't like the diet and died. The others stabilized or had complete reversals within two years - no signs of disease.
When Esselstyn's book was covered in The Plain Dealer, they interviewed the head of cardiology at one of the leading heart centers in the world. He did not discount what Esselstyn was saying, instead he argued it was not a large scale study, with the caveat (my best recollection of his words): "studies are funded by drug companies and drug companies will never fund such a study".
I read a similar thing regarding another researcher who was trying to be heard about how to cure diabetes through healthy diet (here on Alternet?), whose speaking appearance at a seminar was cancelled in favor of a drug-industry backed researcher trying to "improve outcomes" through drugs.
peace,
Paul
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» RE: This article is a study in mindless propaganda rife with illogic and half-truths
Posted by: Caleb Darkstar
» Paul, how is this different than many of the articles about diet posted on AlterNet?
Posted by: Quist
» Did you have anything of substance to say, Quist?
Posted by: Paul_C
» Not to you because it would be a waste of time. Thanks for another ad hominem attack btw.
Posted by: Quist
» I don't dismiss people who actually have something rational to say -
Posted by: Paul_C
» Do not feed the trolls! n/m
Posted by: Paul_C
Comments are closed-
Posted by: vasumurti on Jul 27, 2009 10:27 AM
Current rating: 2 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
"The Comparative Anatomy of Eating", by Milton R. Mills, MD
Which category are humans most suited for?
*Facial Muscles*
CARNIVORE: Reduced to allow wide mouth gape
OMNIVORE: Reduced
HERBIVORE: Well-developed
HUMAN: Well-developed
*Jaw Type*
CARNIVORE: Angle not expanded
HERBIVORE: Expanded angle
OMNIVORE: Angle not expanded
HUMAN: Expanded angle
*Jaw Joint Location*
CARNIVORE: On same plane as molar teeth
HERBIVORE: Above the plane of the molars
OMNIVORE: On same plane as molar teeth
HUMAN: Above the plane of the molars
*Jaw Motion*
CARNIVORE: Shearing; minimal side-to-side motion
HERBIVORE: No shear; good side-to-side, front-to-back
OMNIVORE: Shearing; minimal side-to-side
HUMAN: No shear; good side-to-side, front-to-back
*Major Jaw Muscles*
CARNIVORE: Temporalis
HERBIVORE: Masseter and pterygoids
OMNIVORE: Temporalis
HUMAN: Masseter and pterygoids
*Mouth Opening vs. Head Size*
CARNIVORE: Large
HERBIVORE: Small
OMNIVORE: Large
HUMAN: Small
*Teeth: Incisors*
CARNIVORE: Short and pointed
HERBIVORE: Broad, flattened and spade shaped
OMNIVORE: Short and pointed
HUMAN: Broad, flattened and spade shaped
*Teeth: Canines*
CARNIVORE: Long, sharp and curved
HERBIVORE: Dull and short or long (for defense), or none
OMNIVORE: Long, sharp and curved
HUMAN: Short and blunted
*Teeth: Molars*
CARNIVORE: Sharp, jagged and blade shaped
HERBIVORE: Flattened with cusps vs complex surface
OMNIVORE: Sharp blades and/or flattened
HUMAN: Flattened with nodular cusps
*Chewing*
CARNIVORE: None; swallows food whole
HERBIVORE: Extensive chewing necessary
OMNIVORE: Swallows food whole and/or simple crushing
HUMAN: Extensive chewing necessary
*Saliva*
CARNIVORE: No digestive enzymes
HERBIVORE: Carbohydrate digesting enzymes
OMNIVORE: No digestive enzymes
HUMAN: Carbohydrate digesting enzymes
*Stomach Type*
CARNIVORE: Simple
HERBIVORE: Simple or multiple chambers
OMNIVORE: Simple
HUMAN: Simple
*Stomach Acidity*
CARNIVORE: Less than or equal to pH 1 with food in stomach
HERBIVORE: pH 4 to 5 with food in stomach
OMNIVORE: Less than or equal to pH 1 with food in stomach
HUMAN: pH 4 to 5 with food in stomach
*Stomach Capacity*
CARNIVORE: 60% to 70% of total volume of digestive tract
HERBIVORE: Less than 30% of total volume of digestive tract
OMNIVORE: 60% to 70% of total volume of digestive tract
HUMAN: 21% to 27% of total volume of digestive tract
*Length of Small Intestine*
CARNIVORE: 3 to 6 times body length
HERBIVORE: 10 to more than 12 times body length
OMNIVORE: 4 to 6 times body length
HUMAN: 10 to 11 times body length
*Colon*
CARNIVORE: Simple, short and smooth
HERBIVORE: Long, complex; may be sacculated
OMNIVORE: Simple, short and smooth
HUMAN: Long, sacculated
*Liver*
CARNIVORE: Can detoxify vitamin A
HERBIVORE: Cannot detoxify vitamin A
OMNIVORE: Can detoxify vitamin A
HUMAN: Cannot detoxify vitamin A
*Kidney*
CARNIVORE: Extremely concentrated urine
HERBIVORE: Moderately concentrated urine
OMNIVORE: Extremely concentrated urine
HUMAN: Moderately concentrated urine
*Nails*
CARNIVORE: Sharp claws
HERBIVORE: Flattened nails or blunt hooves
OMNIVORE: Sharp claws
HUMAN: Flattened nails
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» RE: "The Comparative Anatomy of Eating" by Dr. Milton Mills
Posted by: olderworker
» I posted a piece just above. Funny, I don't see anything thought provoking from you, Quist... n/m
Posted by: Paul_C
» Please...all you did was cut and pasted an article from someone who cut and pasted an article.
Posted by: Quist
» I'm sorry, vasumurti posted this one this time.
Posted by: Quist
» Whether 10, 15, or 20 times, it is relevant,
Posted by: clresu
» What are you saying Beck, that any response, right, wrong, insane, is "expected"?
Posted by: Paul_C
» Oops, when I said "wealth of ideas" I was refering to vasumurti's later postings! Nonetheless,
Posted by: Paul_C
» Do not feed the trolls! n/m
Posted by: Paul_C
» ...but you supposedly just did. Ohhh the irony.
Posted by: Quist
Comments are closed-
Posted by: maddy on Jul 27, 2009 10:50 AM
Current rating: 4 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Finally, a food article that isn't another go-vegan harangue.
I've posted on this topic numerous times, so please forgive me for saying this yet again.
I am now 34 years old, and I was on my first diet at 12. Always low-fat, always severe calorie restriction. The dieting made me more obsessive about food--especially because I was hungry all of the time. I would lose weight for a few weeks, maybe three months if I really white-knuckled it, but there's only so many carrots, pretzels and rice cakes one can eat before they can't take it anymore. (And, of course, little did I realize that all that sugar in those "diet" foods just made me more hungry.) At 22, my total cholesterol was 253, my blood triglycerides 1100 (normal is 100!).
For a 7 year stretch in my 20s I was either vegetarian or vegan because I bought the political argument that it was the only way to eat ethically. Not only did I get even fatter, but I developed numerous health problems--cancer, skin lesions, digestive stuff, renewed asthma--and over the course of the 7 years, I developed allergies to both wheat and soy.
Well, tired of being sick all of the time and fat all of the time, I decided to follow the dieting "logic" of this piece--adding back lean animal protein, some dairy, and good vegetable fat while eliminating all refined carbohydrates, breads, and rice.
And guess what? Blood work is immaculate, I lost weight more easily than I ever have (and this is 20 years of dieting talking) and have had no trouble keeping it off. I have more energy, my skin is better, everything. The biggest blessing, though, is not worrying constantly about what I'm eating or not eating, or denying myself dinner because my lunch was too fatty, or feeling guilty at night because I plowed through a whole box of cookies. The sugar cravings are GONE. And I've experienced a kind of "freedom" from being constantly fixated on it, so much so that I'm convinced that sugar addiction is every bit as real as nicotine addiction.
So, again, thank you--it was nice to have this article instead of another self-righteous rant from the must-be-vegan camp. Veganism nearly killed me.
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» RE: Can I just say thank you?
Posted by: CaliJim
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Posted by: westomoon on Jul 27, 2009 11:06 AM
Current rating: 4 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
I've been observing the cholesterol craze with amazement for years -- there is no data that supports what we all know to be true, that high "bad" cholesterol causes cardiovascular problems. And there is plenty to show that, for most people, there is no correlation between cholesterol levels and cardiovascular disease. AlterNet reprinted a terrific article by Maggie Mahar in 2008 that detailed the findings on this issue. . *grinning* The comments for that article consisted largely of people arguing over how to reduce cholesterol. We have been so programmed on this topic that they seemed not to have been able to to process the content of the article at all -- just reacted with superstitious dread to the mention of cholesterol.
While I was looking up the cholesterol article, I came across two more by Mahar that also address / debunk assumptions in this article. There's one on obesity and the assumptions that have been disproved regarding it, and another on how we've been misled about the actual risk of some of the big "scare" diseases, including cardiovascular ones.
I tend to regard the George Bushes of the world -- fundamentalists, neocons, and rednecks -- as the people who don't understand or appreciate science. But a lot of us progressives and neutral types also seem to have a real preference for dogma over scientific fact.
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» RE: Hard to kill a myth
Posted by: CaliJim
» RE: Hard to kill a myth
Posted by: progressiveview
» Reading comprehension
Posted by: westomoon
Comments are closed-
Posted by: vasumurti on Jul 27, 2009 12:27 PM
Current rating: 1 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Flesh-eating animals lap water with their tongue, whereas vegetarian animals imbibe liquids by a suction process. Humans are classified as primates and are thus frugivores possessing a set of completely herbivorous teeth. Proponents of the theory that humans should be classified as omnivores note that human beings do, in fact, possess a modified form of canine teeth. However, these so-called "canine teeth" are much more prominent in animals that traditionally never eat flesh, such as apes, camels, and the male musk deer.
It must also be noted that the shape, length and hardness of these so-called "canine teeth" can hardly be compared to those of true carnivorous animals. A principle factor in determining the hardness of teeth is the phosphate of magnesia content. Human teeth usually contain 1.5 percent phosphate of magnesia, whereas the teeth of carnivores are composed of nearly 5 percent phosphate of magnesia. It is for this reason they are able to break through the bones of their prey, and reach the nutritious marrow.
Zoologist Desmond Morris makes a case for vegetarianism in his 1967 book, The Naked Ape: "It could be argued that, since our primate ancestors had to make do without a major meat component in their diets we should be able to do the same. We were driven to become flesh eaters only by environmental circumstances, and now that we have the environment under control, with elaborately cultivated crops at our disposal, we might be expected to return to our ancient feeding patterns."
In The Human Story, edited by Marie-Louise Makris (1985), we read: "...recent studies of their teeth reveal that the Australopithecines did not eat meat as a regular part of their diet, and were mainly peaceful vegetarians, rather like chimps or gorillas. The popular image of the murderous ape is now as extinct as the Australopithecines themselves."
Dr. Gordon Latto notes that carnivorous and omnivorous animals can only move their jaws up and down, and that omnivores "have a blunt tooth, a sharp tooth, a blunt tooth, a sharp tooth--showing that they were destined to deal both with flesh foods from the animal kingdom and foods from the vegetable kingdom...
"Carnivorous mammals and omnivorous mammals cannot perspire except at the extremity of the limbs and the tip of the nose; man perspires all over the body. Finally, our instincts; the carnivorous mammal (which first of all has claws and canine teeth) is capable of tearing flesh asunder, whereas man only partakes of flesh foods after they have been camouflaged by cooking and by condiments.
"Man instinctively is not carnivorous," explains Dr. Latto. "...he takes the flesh food after somebody else has killed it, and after it has been cooked and camouflaged with certain condiments. Whereas to pick an apple off a tree or eat some grain or a carrot is a natural thing to do; people enjoy doing it; they don't feel disturbed by it. But to see these animals being slaughtered does affect people; it offends them. Even the toughest of people are affected by the sights in the slaughterhouse.
"I remember taking some medical students into a slaughterhouse. They were about as hardened people as you could meet. After seeing the animals slaughtered that day in the slaughterhouse, not one of them could eat the meat that evening."
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» Take the medical students to an Amish farm
Posted by: Beck
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Posted by: vasumurti on Jul 27, 2009 12:29 PM
Current rating: 2 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
"The gorge of a cat, for instance, will rise at the smell of a mouse or a piece of raw flesh, but not at the aroma of fruit. If a man can take delight in pouncing upon a bird, tear its still living body apart with his teeth, sucking the warm blood, one might infer that Nature had provided him with a carnivorous instinct, but the very thought of doing such a thing makes him shudder. On the other hand, a bunch of luscious grapes makes his mouth water, and even in the absence of hunger, he will eat fruit to gratify taste."
As far back as 1961, the Journal of the American Medical Association reported that: "A vegetarian diet can prevent 97% of our coronary occlusions." More recently, William S. Collens and Gerald B. Dobkens concluded: "Examination of the dental structure of modern man reveals that he possesses all the features of a strictly herbivorous animal. While designed to subsist on vegetarian foods, he has perverted his dietary habits to accept food of the carnivore. It is postulated that man cannot handle carnivorous foods like the carnivore. Herein may lie the basis for the high incidence of arteriosclerotic disease."
Keith Akers in A Vegetarian Sourcebook (1983), responds to the argument that killing animals for food is natural:
"This is quite an admirable argument. It explains practically everything; why we do not eat each other, except under conditions of unusual stress; why we may kill certain other animals (they are, in the order of nature, food for us); even why we should be kind to pets and try to help miscellaneous wildlife (they are not naturally our food). There are some problems with the idea that an order of nature determines which species are food for us, but an examination of human history indicates the broad outlines of just such an order, though inhibitions against eating certain species may vary from culture to culture.
"The main problem with this argument is that it does not justify the practice of meat-eating or animal husbandry as we know it today; it justifies hunting. The distinction between hunting and animal husbandry probably seems rather fine to the man in the street, or even to your typical rule-utilitarian moral philosopher. The distinction, however, is obvious to an ecologist. If one defends killing on the grounds that it occurs in nature, then one is defending the practice as it occurs in nature.
"When one species of animal preys on another in nature, it only preys on a very small proportion of the total species population. Obviously, the predator species relies on its prey for its continued survival. Therefore, to wipe the prey species out through overhunting would be fatal. In practice, members of such predator species rely on such strategies as territoriality to restrict overhunting and to insure the continued existence of its food supply.
"Moreover, only the weakest members of the prey species are the predator's victims: the feeble, the sick, the lame, or the young accidentally separated from the fold. The life of the typical zebra is usually placid, even in lion country; this kind of violence is the exception in nature, not the rule.
"As it exists in the wild, hunting is the preying upon isolated members of an animal herd. Animal husbandry is the nearly complete annihilation of an animal herd. In nature, this kind of slaughter does not exist. The philosopher is free to argue that there is no moral difference between hunting and slaughter, but he cannot invoke nature as a defense of this idea.
"Why are hunters, not butchers, most frequently taken to task by the larger community for their killing of animals?...If any form of meat-eating is justified, it would be meat from a hunted animal."
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Posted by: vasumurti on Jul 27, 2009 12:30 PM
Current rating: 1 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
"Killing an animal is in itself a troubling act. It has been said that if we had to kill our own meat we would all be vegetarians. There may be exceptions to that general rule, but it is true that most people prefer not to inquire into the killing of the animals they eat.
"Very few people ever visit a slaughterhouse; and films of slaughterhouse operations are rarely shown on television...Yet those who, by their purchases, require animals to be killed have no right to be shielded from this or any other aspect of the production of the meat they buy.
"If it is distasteful for humans to think about, what can it be like for the animals to experience it?"
Peter Singer concludes in Animal Liberation that "by ceasing to rear and kill animals for food, we can make extra food available for humans that, properly distributed, it would eliminate starvation and malnutrition from this planet. Animal Liberation is Human Liberation, too."
Dr. Milton Mills' "The Comparative Anatomy of Eating,"
www.vegsource.com/veg_faq/comparative.htm
and the Physicians Committee for Responsible Medicine,
www.pcrm.org ,
argue persuasively that the optimal diet for humanity is a vegan diet. However, even if humans really are omnivores and not frugivores, the diet of natural omnivores is mostly (80 percent) plant food.
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» Vegetarian true believers are out in force, huh?
Posted by: CaliJim
» If people evolved as carnivores why do we and our ancestors have the bodies of frugivores?
Posted by: Paul_C
» Ahh Paul...just because you offer information does not mean it is factual or logical.
Posted by: Quist
» You are an idiot Quist. A broken record. I can't reason with you. n/m
Posted by: Paul_C
» If his "facts quoted" were not so full of holes
Posted by: melloe2
» Yes they are...but this happens everytime there is an article about food on AlterNet.
Posted by: Quist
» Scholarly and well researched as always, vasumurti. Thank you! n/m
Posted by: Paul_C
» It amazes you that I believe in myself? I am happy to debate anyone with some integrity Quist
Posted by: Paul_C
» Paul, if you had any integrity you would not dishonestly label all who disagree with you as trolls!
Posted by: Quist
» Go away, troll. I am done with you. n/m
Posted by: Paul_C
» Thank you for another demonstration of your childishness.
Posted by: Quist
Comments are closed-
Posted by: macro on Jul 27, 2009 1:21 PM
Current rating: 2 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
I don't have time to respond properly to this ridiculous article and maybe it doesn't deserve much comment. While I truly appreciate AlterNet I find that you occasionally and deliberately print provocative articles. Anyone with half a brain knows that eating saturated animal fat is unhealthy on every level. The quality is awful and the repercussions are deadly. I'm not a food fadist but I've been eating whole grains, lots of vegetables and fish, vegetable oils, etc., for many years and I'm in my 70's and in near perfect health. I know many others who do similarly who similar results. People who eat bacon, steak, excessive dairy, and all processed foods tend to be unhealthy and live shorter lives. There are many, many books and studies that will bear me out ranging from Dean Ornish MD to the macrobiotic guru, Michio Kushi. When you print articles like this you only perpetuate myths and confusion, but you do stir up your readers! Sincerely, Alan L.
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» RE: Alan L.
Posted by: progressiveview
» RE: Alan L.You must be kidding
Posted by: jrgjniew
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Posted by: JodiRD on Jul 27, 2009 1:35 PM
Current rating: 3 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
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Posted by: Lea on Jul 27, 2009 2:35 PM
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Posted by: aadinko on Jul 27, 2009 2:38 PM
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RT
Ultimate Anonymity
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Posted by: jejer on Jul 27, 2009 2:57 PM
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» And the research data that tells you this... ?
Posted by: westomoon
» RE: this article is so misleading
Posted by: CaliJim
» Like me?
Posted by: pied pie
» RE: Like me?
Posted by: jejer
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Posted by: outragedtoo on Jul 27, 2009 3:42 PM
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Yes, indeed, the latest news is that much of the advice from the nutritional establishment of just a couple of years ago is wrong. Animal fat, including lard, is now OK. Butter is better than margarine. Eggs are not so terrible either. But plants and vegetables can be laced with chemicals and salmonella. Some, like peanuts, bring terrible allergies.
If there is a lesson to be learned from this, it is to take the pronouncements of the nutritional establishment with a grain of salt (but not too much salt). And don't get stuck in some nutrition cult based on incomplete or lopsided information. Science is, after all, incremental.
When I was growing up in the 1950s, we consumed all the "terrible" stuff like whole milk, macaroni and cheese, butter, meat loaf, spaghetti and meatballs, steaks, fried chicken, real sugar on everything. Yet I remember we didn't have many fat kids — maybe 2 or 3 per class tops. Oh sure, we got out and rode our bikes and exercised more, but the fat kids did that too. An some of the nerds who didn't get out and exercise stayed skinny anyway.
Anecdotally, it doesn't seem to be either fat or exercise that made a difference back then. I'm assuming that the foods we ate back then, before industrial farming was in full swing, were more natural and nutritious. We still had a local farmer deliver milk to our door, for example.
Other than that, I think we still need to look at genetics. We may just be a population in which the "fat genes" have become more concentrated and expressed themselves widely. But that doesn't do much for the multi-billion dollar diet, nutrition and exercise industry.
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Posted by: mkarsh on Jul 27, 2009 7:36 PM
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Posted by: NedKelly on Jul 27, 2009 9:19 PM
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Posted by: StanEric on Jul 28, 2009 8:31 AM
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Gary
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Posted by: bookman_x on Jul 28, 2009 8:53 AM
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a diet that is high in animal fats is wholly and inarguably unsustainable, and this issue should be far more central to the debate than the public health and dietary concerns which the author seems to emphasize. of course fat makes food tastes better, and of course fat is a necessary component for a balanced diet in most individuals. both the diet gurus and the apologists are overly shrill and hysterical in making their point, while both simultaneously fail to grasp the larger issue, which is that our demand for meat products is destroying huge swaths of the planet.
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Posted by: Caesar77 on Jul 28, 2009 1:40 PM
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The bullshit that fat is a killer, is just that, bullshit.
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» Actually, you are partially right but your conclusion is wrong
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Posted by: macro on Jul 29, 2009 10:03 AM
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» Alternet commenters aren't progressive on food, in the majority
Posted by: jparsons
» Here's a link to a mainstream article saying, guess what?
Posted by: jparsons
» RE: My, my, so many backward people.
Posted by: jrgjniew
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Posted by: rgd on Jul 29, 2009 7:28 PM
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Posted by: cowboyup1876 on Jul 29, 2009 10:07 PM
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Anti-fat groups started their campaign several years ago, causing alarm among health conscious Americans. As a result, the health conscious (who always ate a balanced diet and exercised regularly, the real keys to a health life) ate less animal fats. Those who were indifferent to the “health experts” (read anti-fat groups) continued to lead lazy lifestyles with unbalanced diets. Fast forward twenty years or so, these anti-fat groups do "studies" which involve two questions per person in the study, "Did you eat a lot of animal fat" and "Do you have heart problems". Of course, the health conscious answered "no" to both questions, while those who ignored the anti-fat groups answered "yes" to both questions.
These studies do not look at any other variables that are necessary to a good scientific study. As a researcher in my undergrad years, we were hounded by our professors to address any possible variables to conduct a good study. By influencing the test groups twenty years ago, any “historical data” they pull is bogus because they have too much variation in exercise and balance of diets. If they want a good study, they need to compare apples to apples by selecting people who have identical lifestyles and then making fat consumption the independent variable.
All in all, this article restates the obvious fact that if you trade a hot dog for a pork chop, potato chips for a baked potato, and soda pop for a glass of orange juice, you will be healthier. Add an hour of exercise instead of television, you will be doing great.
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» Did you read?
Posted by: maddy
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Posted by: itouch backup on Jul 30, 2009 7:32 PM
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Posted by: C. Rich on Aug 1, 2009 9:12 AM
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http://americaspeaksink.com/?s=swine+flu+Obama
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Posted by: phatkhat on Aug 1, 2009 4:41 PM
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I believe in eating what you like - because no one will stick to eating what they don't like - and maybe learning to like some things like different veggies if you are not a veggie eater. But I think you have to watch how MUCH you eat, and portion control along with more exercise is the most sensible and easiest way to lose weight. (Not that it is EVER easy, LOL.)
But I know that when I cut back on "bad" fats and excess sugars, I feel really pretty good. If I eat much fat, I feel sick. I tried the Atkins diet years ago when it was new and radical, and I lost a LOT of weight. I also got very, very sick. I simply cannot eat things like steak - because they make me feel bad. And bacon is horrible - not only fatty but the nitrites!
The healthiest I've ever been was as an ovo-lacto-vegetarian. Don't take my cheese, please!
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Posted by: phindrup on Aug 2, 2009 8:16 PM
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As a consequence milk was used in little other than tea.
Porridge for breakfast — three and a half to four hours after getting up — brown sugar and cream. Bread, butter, jam and thick cream — akin to the English clotted cream.
Evening meal: roast mutton of some sort, and three vegetables from the following, potatoes, pumpkin, swede, cabbage, silver beet, kumeras, peas, beans, all with lashings of butter. It is worth noting that the meat made up less than a quarter of the meal.
Always ‘pudding’. Always with lashings of cream.
No one in our family was overweight!
As a teenager I fought, amateur boxing, hovering right on the 9 stone limit, and I, with my friends consumed milkshakes regularly. A milkshake comprised of milk, cream, malted milk and an egg. None of us were overweight!
At seventy it is only in the last few years that I have had to watch my weight, and only for a two or three kilos.
Love the fat edging fried/grilled ‘lamb chops. Would not use marine in a fit. — I mean, why bother?
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Posted by: Don Quixot on Aug 3, 2009 4:36 AM
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We have a growing number of people overweight, living sick and dying prematurely, literally killed by their own palate.
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Posted by: moyshekapoyre on Aug 3, 2009 4:39 PM
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It's a 90min. long lecture with lots of interesting stuff not included in my pathetic notes but in case you don't have time here's what I wrote down:
all calories are not the same. the excess calorie in to calorie out ratio theory of obesity doesn't work (exercise is great but not because it burns calories, since it burns them quite slowly). fructose calories are not glucose calories. fructose consumption (sucrose is fructose once ingested) leads to Metabolic Syndrome: hypertension, de novo lipogenesis, dyslipidemia, hepatic steatosis, inflammation, hepatic insulin resistance, obesity, CNS leptin resistance, promoting continuous consumption
any theory on obesity/dieting needs to address the boom in obese 6-month-old babies (you think they do less exercise or eat more than babies decades ago?). fructose as the cause does address this, since most of baby formula is fructose/sucrose, by volume.
even without formula, high sugar diets while pregnant can cause fetuses to become predisposed to obesity by changing their adiposity.
bottom line is a bottle of soda is just as bad long-term on all parts of the body as a bottle of beer, including obesity, though of course it isn't bad acutely as alcohol is, since sugar is not metabolized by the brain as alcohol is... but it is toxic to the liver.. it is "alcohol without the buzz."
the FDA's own rules say it regulates only acute and not chronic toxins when regulating food, which is why fructose is labeled as safe by FDA.
the food pyramid is created by the USDA, which has the main responsibility of selling food to other countries, not keeping us healthy
----
LDL is of two types. small dense pattern b (from fructose) which is bad for you and buoyant pattern a, which is neutral, and which comes from dietary fat. Since LDL is not split up in the blood analysis, you look at HDL and triglycerides to determine which LDL you have. low HDL and high triglycerides indicate you have a lot of the pattern b LDL which leads to heart disease.
we have more fructose now than ever before in our diets. the curve coincides with the obesity increase over the past few decades. the increased fructose in everything is because of the flawed 1970s Seven Countries study which correlated high fat diets to heart disease (flawed because it didn't take into account that the high fat diets also happened to be high fructose diets, and because back then it was not known that LDL was of 2 types), which led the gov't to call for a war on fat, which led to low-fat processed foods, and those taste like crap unless sweetened up.
despite what many people now think, high fructose corn syrup is not worse than sucrose, it is equally bad.
fructose in nature (i.e. an apple, NOT apple JUICE) is healthy because it is surrounded by a ton of fiber, which balances it out. fiber is very good for you in all kinds of ways, but it will make you fart. there is very little fiber in processed food (none in fast food except salad) because fiber reduces shelf life.
this doctor runs a clinic, and has excellent success getting people to be thin again and remit from type 2 diabetes mainly by cutting out ALL fructose/sucrose from their diets (i.e. no juices or sodas or cake etc, glucose is ok though, i.e. white grains etc). he says he can fix type 2 diabetes in one week.
it is true we are eating more since 40 years ago, but that is also likely due to fructose/sucrose, since they don't trigger the leptin response which tells our brain we are full, thus we end up with these "unaccounted for" calories--i.e. the reason we eat more calories without realizing it.
&lots more
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Posted by: Tequila Kid on Aug 7, 2009 6:52 AM
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To blandly claim, as you do, that the hypothesis "has never been proved" makes your entire article suspect. It's one thing to say that the hypothesis is disputed, controversial, being re-examined. But "never been proved" clearly marks you as a bullshit artist of the first water. I nominate you for the Dr. Josef Goebbels Prize for Creative Reporting and recommend that you be banned from AlterNet and recycled in the Nazi Review [a.k.a. National Review], a publication that specializes in this kind of gross distortion.
One of the editors of the Nazi Review is or was a pathological liar and pseudo-academic, the self-confessed "intellectual terrorist" Stephen Moore. He once claimed, among other Fascistoid ravings, that the US has the highest energy efficiency of any country, which is decisively refuted by all pertinent statistical data. In vain did I write to the Nazi Review to protest. Never got any reaction.
In my opinion, this article on dietary fat has the same scientific standing as the Bible.
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Posted by: boay on Aug 17, 2009 6:46 PM
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Posted by: boay on Aug 17, 2009 7:48 PM
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