COMMENTS: 17
Taxing Health Care Will Destroy Democrats
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Vincent Panvini Sr. is one of those Washington insiders whose names seldom appear in the newspapers but can be found in hundreds of Rolodexes on Capitol Hill. He is the guy in charge of political contributions for the Sheet Metal Workers union. In the 2008 election, Panvini handed out almost $2.4 million, 97 percent of which went to Democrats. Panvini's choices will change, he predicts, if the Democratic Party decides to reform healthcare on the backs of union members--taxing the health benefits that working people won in collective bargaining by forgoing wage increases.
"This is a political train wreck waiting to happen," Panvini warns. In recent weeks he has been bluntly informing party leaders that they are flirting with a disaster comparable to the great wipeout Democrats suffered in 1994, when Gingrich Republicans won control of the House.
Policy thinkers and rightward-leaning "Blue Dog" Democrats look upon the proposal as a tempting opportunity to raise lots of revenue for healthcare reform, which the nonpartisan Congressional Budget Office recently estimated could cost as much as $1.6 trillion over ten years. Limiting existing tax exemptions could produce more than $418 billion in the same span of time, according to the Joint Taxation Committee, a significant down payment.
Problem is, a big switch on taxing benefits would double-cross a major constituency and break some important promises. During the presidential campaign, Obama attacked John McCain for proposing the very same idea. Obama further promised he would not increase taxes on the middle class. "If you tax health benefits, you are taxing the middle class," Panvini explains. The issue was critical, he adds, in persuading many white working-class voters to put aside racial fears and return to the Democratic Party.
If the president embraces the plan, the consequences, Panvini thinks, could be explosive. "If any of these Democratic senators vote for this, they will be voted out in 2010, and this will definitely be used against Obama in 2012. People are already hurting, unemployed--and then you are going to tax them more? That's crazy."
The conventional view of the 1994 election is that voters were reacting to Bill Clinton's failure to reform healthcare. But labor's interpretation, which I share, is that working people felt betrayed and abandoned by Clinton's rightward turn toward NAFTA and Robert Rubin's Wall Street economics. Many working people stayed home in 1994; some even opted for Newt Gingrich's anti-establishment attack line.
Given Obama's great popularity, rebellion seems remote in the current circumstances. But that could change if the party once again turns its back on core constituencies. If Democratic senators sell out labor on healthcare reform, Panvini expects he will make different choices on whom the Sheet Metal Workers support. "No question about it, I would back people against some Democrats," he said. "But it's not up to me. The members themselves will get their revenge. I won't have to stir up anything."
The White House is trying to reassure labor groups, but President Obama has not yet ruled out the approach, and a labor coalition has already formed to push back. On June 8 thirty-one unions sent a joint letter to Congress warning against the proposal. If the campaign gains steam, labor leaders may find more allies among the estimated 160 million Americans who receive health coverage through the workplace. And they may also help galvanize the progressive groups--including Health Care for America Now and MoveOn--that are rolling out an $82 million campaign to push for a strong public health insurance plan.
The real source of labor's alarm--and the target of much of the pushback--is Senate Finance Committee chair Max Baucus, who has repeatedly described as promising a limit on healthcare tax benefits and has expressed qualms about the "public plan" option. Baucus has a history of ignoring the party's agenda and collaborating with "Rat Republicans," as Panvini calls them (see my "Senator Sellout," June 2, 2006, at TheNation.com).
"Basically, this is coming from Baucus," Panvini said. "He and [Republican Senator Chuck] Grassley are...not backing off. He might even have the votes in his committee. Baucus thinks this is the lazy way to get the money."
Conservative critics like to complain that union members enjoy "Cadillac" healthcare while other working people get little or no help from the government. This a valid point, and it ought to be addressed. But the solution is not to cripple the union members who have decent benefits. An equitable solution would set out, rather, to make everyone whole.
The only way to overcome the anomaly of union-employer healthcare plans is to create a single-payer system that is effective and national in scope. Instead of targeting workers with slash-and-burn politics, policy-makers should look to organized labor's accomplishments as the model for healthcare reform.
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Posted by: progressive-life on Jun 19, 2009 10:39 AM
Current rating: 1 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
So what we got was someone who had a big wish list, like some kid at Christmas but no idea how it would be paid for!
As Rahm said, it's a shame to let a good crises go to waste!
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» "the fundamentals of the economy are sound"...
Posted by: Annapurna1
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Posted by: ohb0b on Jun 19, 2009 12:01 PM
Current rating: Not yet rated [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
But after thinking it through, this could be one more nail in the coffin for our present system of job-based health care if a good public plan were also in place.
This is one area where conservatives are correct... if you want less of an activity, tax it!
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Posted by: davekall on Jun 19, 2009 6:12 PM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
No matter what you think of Michael Moore he still hits it right on the head when he said, "until we start focusing on the WE instead of the ME nothing is going to change". Come on people, stop being so selfish and really lend a hand to those in need. You never know, that person in need might be YOU or YOUR loved ones someday!
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» RE: Whatever!??!
Posted by: ohb0b
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Posted by: purereason on Jun 20, 2009 6:30 AM
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Obama was given power when all these fat calves destroyed the nation. Americans became nororious in other parts of the world due to its ruthless invasion of Iraq. All their systems that were supposed to serve the people had nobody to control them, the political leaders were concerned with the affairs of other nations. These leaders could not control these corporations because they were the puppets of these systems. President Obama is trying to chage all those that are supposed to serve the people so that they serve the people better, not the corporations. He has all ingredients to be the greatest of all the Presidents and other national leaders. The only thing that is required is the support of the elected representatives of the people in his efforts to serve the nation and the people. There cannot be any excuses for that. Of course the fat calves will bray calling such efforts foul. Let theirs be their final songs. All these corporations that have taken hold of the people must be recast to serve the people.
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Posted by: Southern Gal on Jun 20, 2009 8:36 AM
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» RE: Another Nail in Their Coffin
Posted by: MicroGlyphics
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Posted by: jewels on Jun 22, 2009 4:33 PM
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Posted by: Gerald on Jun 22, 2009 4:56 PM
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The Democrats who are discussing taxing benefits should not fall for the Republican tactic aimed at stopping any form of universal health coverage, for the fourth time in the last 100 years.
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Posted by: TruthBeTold on Jun 22, 2009 4:59 PM
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And stop with the republican talking points. Point me to the sources where the President said "we want to tax health benefits. Or you can just STFU.
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Posted by: dumdumboy on Jun 22, 2009 5:25 PM
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If Obama does wind-up backing this, it'll just be one more indication that it's not only white men who speak with forked tongues. There's a reason why progressives didn't back Hillary in the primary, after all: we were sick of her hub-bub's policies of appeasing the right-wing. With each passing day the distinctions between Obama and Bubba get fainter and fainter...
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Posted by: ronniejw on Jun 22, 2009 11:45 PM
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Ronnie Wright
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Posted by: singinghawk926 on Jun 23, 2009 2:29 AM
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Posted by: mld6788 on Jun 23, 2009 2:31 PM
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Posted by: ERG on Jun 29, 2009 6:00 PM
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This is absolutely not true; in fact the cap is based on the average value of a policy that federal workers have and which costs approx. $4,000 per year per person. For the rest of us who are not federal employees, take a look at average insurance policies in your state, because they vary WIDELY, and if you live somewhere like California, you can bet your policy costs substantially more than that. How will your policy be valued? Here is how it would work; whatever you would have to pay to continue your coverage through COBRA, is what your policy would be valued at. I can give you a real-life example: last year, when I received my layoff papers from the Univ. of California (I was lucky to find another position quickly, so I was spared the following scenario), I was informed that it would cost me a little over $800 per month to continue coverage. By my calculation, this would have been at least $9,600 per year. Under this proposal to tax our benefits as income, anything over $4,000 WOULD BE ADDED TO THE WAGE BOX on my W-2 and COUNTED AS INCOME RECEIVED; so voila, instead of paying taxes on my (very) modest $40,000 per year, I would pay taxes on an additional $5,600 per year, because this would count as actual income that I received, although it is actually MONEY being paid by my employer to an INSURANCE COMPANY. Yes, under this plan, you are taxed on money paid to somebody else!!! I can assure you that there is no faster way to more completely undermine and utterly dismantle what little security and incentive the middle class has managed to hang on to, than to begin taxing us on income that somebody else, NOT US, is actually receiving. And please look at the scholarly reports, such as the June report for the Economic Policy Institute, that shows how this taxation would have unequal impact on individuals in employer-sponsored plans due to variation in rates across states, as well as disproportionately hitting those workers with MODEST incomes- NOT THE WEALTHY, as Sen. Bachus and others have falsely claimed.
I should also point out that there will clearly be no complementary legislation in the bill requiring employers to increase our salaries by the amount of the additional tax, which would be dumped on us just when many of us still lucky enough to be in a group plan (right now, this is the only kind that will actually pay any claims if you do get sick, and then not rescind your policy retroactively, after major surgery, chemotherapy, transplants etc) are also seeing alarming pay cuts and increases in State and commodity taxes. After all, what incentive will employers have to increase our wages? Right now they can write off the cost of providing coverage to employees as a business expense, so there is incentive for them to purchase good group plans.
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Posted by: ERG on Jun 29, 2009 6:01 PM
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However, the most distressing part about this whole thing is that Candidate Obama campaigned on, and earned our votes with, a clear pledge to keep Taxation of Employer-based health care OFF THE LIST of potential cash cows. As one brilliant person remarked in an interview on NPR recently, “President Obama must be REALLY upset with Candidate Obama for going and raising our hopes like that!” Now, the White House press secretary will not even answer the question when asked, is this campaign promise going to be honored, or not? It is certainly not reassuring to hear the repeated mantra from our President that “all ideas are on the table,” or “nothing is set in stone,” or “no lines in the sand,” and “everyone should bring their ideas to the table.” WHY in the WORLD should Congress spend months bringing “every,” (bad) idea to the table, and fashioning a bill, that President Obama would not sign? The answer there, is there is no logic in wasting the effort on something that will not get signed; but he is content to let “Every Idea,” get into the bills that will be considered. In the end, this is sending a message to me, and to lots of other Progressives: “There are no lines, no absolutes, and nothing is non-negotiable, because in the end I am just going to sign whatever Congress puts in front of me.”
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Posted by: progressive-life on Jun 19, 2009 10:39 AM
Current rating: 1 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
So what we got was someone who had a big wish list, like some kid at Christmas but no idea how it would be paid for!
As Rahm said, it's a shame to let a good crises go to waste!
[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]
» "the fundamentals of the economy are sound"...
Posted by: Annapurna1
Comments are closed-
Posted by: ohb0b on Jun 19, 2009 12:01 PM
Current rating: Not yet rated [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
But after thinking it through, this could be one more nail in the coffin for our present system of job-based health care if a good public plan were also in place.
This is one area where conservatives are correct... if you want less of an activity, tax it!
[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]
Comments are closed-
Posted by: davekall on Jun 19, 2009 6:12 PM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
No matter what you think of Michael Moore he still hits it right on the head when he said, "until we start focusing on the WE instead of the ME nothing is going to change". Come on people, stop being so selfish and really lend a hand to those in need. You never know, that person in need might be YOU or YOUR loved ones someday!
[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]
» RE: Whatever!??!
Posted by: ohb0b
Comments are closed-
Posted by: purereason on Jun 20, 2009 6:30 AM
Current rating: Not yet rated [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Obama was given power when all these fat calves destroyed the nation. Americans became nororious in other parts of the world due to its ruthless invasion of Iraq. All their systems that were supposed to serve the people had nobody to control them, the political leaders were concerned with the affairs of other nations. These leaders could not control these corporations because they were the puppets of these systems. President Obama is trying to chage all those that are supposed to serve the people so that they serve the people better, not the corporations. He has all ingredients to be the greatest of all the Presidents and other national leaders. The only thing that is required is the support of the elected representatives of the people in his efforts to serve the nation and the people. There cannot be any excuses for that. Of course the fat calves will bray calling such efforts foul. Let theirs be their final songs. All these corporations that have taken hold of the people must be recast to serve the people.
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Posted by: Southern Gal on Jun 20, 2009 8:36 AM
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» RE: Another Nail in Their Coffin
Posted by: MicroGlyphics
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Posted by: jewels on Jun 22, 2009 4:33 PM
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Posted by: Gerald on Jun 22, 2009 4:56 PM
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The Democrats who are discussing taxing benefits should not fall for the Republican tactic aimed at stopping any form of universal health coverage, for the fourth time in the last 100 years.
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Posted by: TruthBeTold on Jun 22, 2009 4:59 PM
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And stop with the republican talking points. Point me to the sources where the President said "we want to tax health benefits. Or you can just STFU.
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Posted by: dumdumboy on Jun 22, 2009 5:25 PM
Current rating: Not yet rated [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
If Obama does wind-up backing this, it'll just be one more indication that it's not only white men who speak with forked tongues. There's a reason why progressives didn't back Hillary in the primary, after all: we were sick of her hub-bub's policies of appeasing the right-wing. With each passing day the distinctions between Obama and Bubba get fainter and fainter...
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Posted by: ronniejw on Jun 22, 2009 11:45 PM
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Ronnie Wright
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Posted by: singinghawk926 on Jun 23, 2009 2:29 AM
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Posted by: mld6788 on Jun 23, 2009 2:31 PM
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Posted by: ERG on Jun 29, 2009 6:00 PM
Current rating: Not yet rated [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
This is absolutely not true; in fact the cap is based on the average value of a policy that federal workers have and which costs approx. $4,000 per year per person. For the rest of us who are not federal employees, take a look at average insurance policies in your state, because they vary WIDELY, and if you live somewhere like California, you can bet your policy costs substantially more than that. How will your policy be valued? Here is how it would work; whatever you would have to pay to continue your coverage through COBRA, is what your policy would be valued at. I can give you a real-life example: last year, when I received my layoff papers from the Univ. of California (I was lucky to find another position quickly, so I was spared the following scenario), I was informed that it would cost me a little over $800 per month to continue coverage. By my calculation, this would have been at least $9,600 per year. Under this proposal to tax our benefits as income, anything over $4,000 WOULD BE ADDED TO THE WAGE BOX on my W-2 and COUNTED AS INCOME RECEIVED; so voila, instead of paying taxes on my (very) modest $40,000 per year, I would pay taxes on an additional $5,600 per year, because this would count as actual income that I received, although it is actually MONEY being paid by my employer to an INSURANCE COMPANY. Yes, under this plan, you are taxed on money paid to somebody else!!! I can assure you that there is no faster way to more completely undermine and utterly dismantle what little security and incentive the middle class has managed to hang on to, than to begin taxing us on income that somebody else, NOT US, is actually receiving. And please look at the scholarly reports, such as the June report for the Economic Policy Institute, that shows how this taxation would have unequal impact on individuals in employer-sponsored plans due to variation in rates across states, as well as disproportionately hitting those workers with MODEST incomes- NOT THE WEALTHY, as Sen. Bachus and others have falsely claimed.
I should also point out that there will clearly be no complementary legislation in the bill requiring employers to increase our salaries by the amount of the additional tax, which would be dumped on us just when many of us still lucky enough to be in a group plan (right now, this is the only kind that will actually pay any claims if you do get sick, and then not rescind your policy retroactively, after major surgery, chemotherapy, transplants etc) are also seeing alarming pay cuts and increases in State and commodity taxes. After all, what incentive will employers have to increase our wages? Right now they can write off the cost of providing coverage to employees as a business expense, so there is incentive for them to purchase good group plans.
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Posted by: ERG on Jun 29, 2009 6:01 PM
Current rating: Not yet rated [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
However, the most distressing part about this whole thing is that Candidate Obama campaigned on, and earned our votes with, a clear pledge to keep Taxation of Employer-based health care OFF THE LIST of potential cash cows. As one brilliant person remarked in an interview on NPR recently, “President Obama must be REALLY upset with Candidate Obama for going and raising our hopes like that!” Now, the White House press secretary will not even answer the question when asked, is this campaign promise going to be honored, or not? It is certainly not reassuring to hear the repeated mantra from our President that “all ideas are on the table,” or “nothing is set in stone,” or “no lines in the sand,” and “everyone should bring their ideas to the table.” WHY in the WORLD should Congress spend months bringing “every,” (bad) idea to the table, and fashioning a bill, that President Obama would not sign? The answer there, is there is no logic in wasting the effort on something that will not get signed; but he is content to let “Every Idea,” get into the bills that will be considered. In the end, this is sending a message to me, and to lots of other Progressives: “There are no lines, no absolutes, and nothing is non-negotiable, because in the end I am just going to sign whatever Congress puts in front of me.”
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