PERSONAL HEALTH  
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Taxing Health Care Will Destroy Democrats

Taxing health care will turn working class people against Obama and ruin the Democratic Party.
June 19, 2009  |  
 
 
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Vincent Panvini Sr. is one of those Washington insiders whose names seldom appear in the newspapers but can be found in hundreds of Rolodexes on Capitol Hill. He is the guy in charge of political contributions for the Sheet Metal Workers union. In the 2008 election, Panvini handed out almost $2.4 million, 97 percent of which went to Democrats. Panvini's choices will change, he predicts, if the Democratic Party decides to reform healthcare on the backs of union members--taxing the health benefits that working people won in collective bargaining by forgoing wage increases.

"This is a political train wreck waiting to happen," Panvini warns. In recent weeks he has been bluntly informing party leaders that they are flirting with a disaster comparable to the great wipeout Democrats suffered in 1994, when Gingrich Republicans won control of the House.

Policy thinkers and rightward-leaning "Blue Dog" Democrats look upon the proposal as a tempting opportunity to raise lots of revenue for healthcare reform, which the nonpartisan Congressional Budget Office recently estimated could cost as much as $1.6 trillion over ten years. Limiting existing tax exemptions could produce more than $418 billion in the same span of time, according to the Joint Taxation Committee, a significant down payment.

Problem is, a big switch on taxing benefits would double-cross a major constituency and break some important promises. During the presidential campaign, Obama attacked John McCain for proposing the very same idea. Obama further promised he would not increase taxes on the middle class. "If you tax health benefits, you are taxing the middle class," Panvini explains. The issue was critical, he adds, in persuading many white working-class voters to put aside racial fears and return to the Democratic Party.

If the president embraces the plan, the consequences, Panvini thinks, could be explosive. "If any of these Democratic senators vote for this, they will be voted out in 2010, and this will definitely be used against Obama in 2012. People are already hurting, unemployed--and then you are going to tax them more? That's crazy."

The conventional view of the 1994 election is that voters were reacting to Bill Clinton's failure to reform healthcare. But labor's interpretation, which I share, is that working people felt betrayed and abandoned by Clinton's rightward turn toward NAFTA and Robert Rubin's Wall Street economics. Many working people stayed home in 1994; some even opted for Newt Gingrich's anti-establishment attack line.

Given Obama's great popularity, rebellion seems remote in the current circumstances. But that could change if the party once again turns its back on core constituencies. If Democratic senators sell out labor on healthcare reform, Panvini expects he will make different choices on whom the Sheet Metal Workers support. "No question about it, I would back people against some Democrats," he said. "But it's not up to me. The members themselves will get their revenge. I won't have to stir up anything."

The White House is trying to reassure labor groups, but President Obama has not yet ruled out the approach, and a labor coalition has already formed to push back. On June 8 thirty-one unions sent a joint letter to Congress warning against the proposal. If the campaign gains steam, labor leaders may find more allies among the estimated 160 million Americans who receive health coverage through the workplace. And they may also help galvanize the progressive groups--including Health Care for America Now and MoveOn--that are rolling out an $82 million campaign to push for a strong public health insurance plan.

The real source of labor's alarm--and the target of much of the pushback--is Senate Finance Committee chair Max Baucus, who has repeatedly described as promising a limit on healthcare tax benefits and has expressed qualms about the "public plan" option. Baucus has a history of ignoring the party's agenda and collaborating with "Rat Republicans," as Panvini calls them (see my "Senator Sellout," June 2, 2006, at TheNation.com).

"Basically, this is coming from Baucus," Panvini said. "He and [Republican Senator Chuck] Grassley are...not backing off. He might even have the votes in his committee. Baucus thinks this is the lazy way to get the money."

Conservative critics like to complain that union members enjoy "Cadillac" healthcare while other working people get little or no help from the government. This a valid point, and it ought to be addressed. But the solution is not to cripple the union members who have decent benefits. An equitable solution would set out, rather, to make everyone whole.

The only way to overcome the anomaly of union-employer healthcare plans is to create a single-payer system that is effective and national in scope. Instead of targeting workers with slash-and-burn politics, policy-makers should look to organized labor's accomplishments as the model for healthcare reform.


William Greider is the author of, most recently, "Come Home, America: The Rise and Fall (and Redeeming Promise) of Our Country (Rodale Books, 2009)."
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It's obvious
Posted by: progressive-life on Jun 19, 2009 10:39 AM   
Current rating: 1    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Obama had no idea what he was talking about during the campaign. McCain apparently was much more on track than Obama in many ways - foreign policy, healthcare etc..

So what we got was someone who had a big wish list, like some kid at Christmas but no idea how it would be paid for!

As Rahm said, it's a shame to let a good crises go to waste!

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Finally, A tax Republicans can get behind
Posted by: ohb0b on Jun 19, 2009 12:01 PM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
That was my first reaction when the idea of taxing employer paid health care as income was first floated by George Bush.
But after thinking it through, this could be one more nail in the coffin for our present system of job-based health care if a good public plan were also in place.
This is one area where conservatives are correct... if you want less of an activity, tax it!

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Whatever!??!
Posted by: davekall on Jun 19, 2009 6:12 PM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Our country is going down the proverbial toilet. I cannot believe that the idea of a government non-profit health plan is even up for debate? Personally I am all for single payer health care but in this selfish country its obvious that is never going to happen. I have no problem paying higher taxes if our money would go somewhere useful like.....hmmmm...education, health care....and the list goes on. Stupid government band aid programs are never going to cut it. We do not even sneeze at sending 700 billion dollars to corrupt corporations that do not deserve our help in the slightest but when it comes to providing health care for our people we have a political cluster.... We drop thousands of bombs that cost millions of dollars each but our government is not interested in truely helping people in dire need. I would be a little bit skeptical of regulated health care for all but the fact that every other country in the industrialized world has come up with a plan that works makes me say, what the ????????

No matter what you think of Michael Moore he still hits it right on the head when he said, "until we start focusing on the WE instead of the ME nothing is going to change". Come on people, stop being so selfish and really lend a hand to those in need. You never know, that person in need might be YOU or YOUR loved ones someday!

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» RE: Whatever!??! Posted by: ohb0b

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The Nation and Obama
Posted by: purereason on Jun 20, 2009 6:30 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
All the systems that have taken hold of the nation serve themselves. The financial institutions had no control to the effect that they destroyed themselves and the savings of the millions. The healthcare systems do not serve all, they are the fat calves that must be sacrficed for the benefit of the people, for they changed the nation that stood 'for the people' to one that stands 'for trade'.

Obama was given power when all these fat calves destroyed the nation. Americans became nororious in other parts of the world due to its ruthless invasion of Iraq. All their systems that were supposed to serve the people had nobody to control them, the political leaders were concerned with the affairs of other nations. These leaders could not control these corporations because they were the puppets of these systems. President Obama is trying to chage all those that are supposed to serve the people so that they serve the people better, not the corporations. He has all ingredients to be the greatest of all the Presidents and other national leaders. The only thing that is required is the support of the elected representatives of the people in his efforts to serve the nation and the people. There cannot be any excuses for that. Of course the fat calves will bray calling such efforts foul. Let theirs be their final songs. All these corporations that have taken hold of the people must be recast to serve the people.

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Another Nail in Their Coffin
Posted by: Southern Gal on Jun 20, 2009 8:36 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
The Democrats are doing a fine job of destroying themselves with progressives and more main line Democrats as they betray more and more campaign promises. This is another nail in their coffin. I really believe that it's time for a Progressive Party. Let's get Russ Feingold, Bernie Sanders ( I know that he's an Independent but he's so progressive in many ways) and some others to come over to the Progressive Pary. The Democrats have shown themselves to be more Republican than Republicans in some respects. I grew up in a family of Democrats in the South who adored Franklin Delano Roosevelt and then changed to Republican with Reagan, with some exceptions such as me. The Democrats of today serve their corporate masters and have demonstrated that they don't care about us common folk.

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» RE: Another Nail in Their Coffin Posted by: MicroGlyphics

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Unions negotiate for healthcare by giving up other benefits
Posted by: jewels on Jun 22, 2009 4:33 PM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
I do not want a tax as I am a retired union person and do receive my negotiated-in-exchange-for-other-benefits health plan...we are not "given" a health plan and each year that health plan becomes more costly with revised copays and prescription increases on my end....my union membership gave salary cuts, contract givebacks, benefit decreases in exchange to help my "bankrupted" company while the entire upper executive staff and CEO received huge bonuses and increased pay...so, please do not berate the union workers' benefits as we have all paid dearly for what is left in our contracts....I am really tired of the constant "beating" that a union employee receives because the non-union workers didn't fight for unionization or have bought the story that unions are "crooks"....yes, there will always be individuals within the union who seek personal gain rather than representing the membership but it is a far better system to insure that workers are not held powerless as so many nonunion employees appear to be....employee free choice act would insure that all workers would have the right to form unions without employer harrassment and interference....As to taxing employee health care it is our responsibility to make our voices heard by bombarding Congress with emails and phone calls and reminding them that their vote will determine their relection...

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Retired
Posted by: Gerald on Jun 22, 2009 4:56 PM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Should a serious public option or, even better, a single payer plan be passed you can be sure that the costs of employer plans will be reduced dramatically. The Employers will began to push very hard for reduced benefits based on actuarial projections. As an example, when I retired, at 67, 5 years ago, my medical coverage "required" that my primary insurer become Medicare while my company provided health insurance coverage became my secondly carrier, (that is the second insured billed). It's worked out very well; I've had one major operation with 90 per cent paid by Medicare and secondary providers costs are very small. There will be an "in house" Union/Management battle be over how much of the "health benefit" costs will be reduced or "taken back" by the Employers as the benefits begin to be covered by Medicare or Public option.
The Democrats who are discussing taxing benefits should not fall for the Republican tactic aimed at stopping any form of universal health coverage, for the fourth time in the last 100 years.

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Here is a big clue:
Posted by: TruthBeTold on Jun 22, 2009 4:59 PM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
"Policy thinkers and rightward-leaning "Blue Dog" Democrats" don't make up the Democratic Party.

And stop with the republican talking points. Point me to the sources where the President said "we want to tax health benefits. Or you can just STFU.

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Military Budget
Posted by: dumdumboy on Jun 22, 2009 5:25 PM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
It seems all too obvious to me that the place to get the money for instituting health care reform is simply to take it out of the vastly overinflated military budget. We spend far too much on it as it is. We can start with the F22's that the military doesn't want in the first place.

If Obama does wind-up backing this, it'll just be one more indication that it's not only white men who speak with forked tongues. There's a reason why progressives didn't back Hillary in the primary, after all: we were sick of her hub-bub's policies of appeasing the right-wing. With each passing day the distinctions between Obama and Bubba get fainter and fainter...

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What Tax?
Posted by: ronniejw on Jun 22, 2009 11:45 PM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Ok, I've read the entire article and I still don't understand what it's talking about. How is this tax being applied? What exactly is being taxed? Just saying health care is being taxed says nothing.

Ronnie Wright

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Hallelujah!
Posted by: singinghawk926 on Jun 23, 2009 2:29 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
To actually see the words "single-payer" in a public discussion of health care! I must be dreaming!! As a bedside RN I can safely say that the majority of my patients, once they understand what it is, would make this their first choice for the way to remodel our country's health delivery system. We will never have a health care system that works until we eliminate the influence and control exercised by the giant voracious middleman: the insurance companies. Only single-payer does this.

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Control the rising cost of healthcare
Posted by: mld6788 on Jun 23, 2009 2:31 PM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Encouraging a workplace health program is a great way to lower overall health care costs and to improve employee health. Companies of all sizes can incorporate wellness and prevention into the workplace. Find out how at http://www.friendsoftheuschamber.com/issues/index.cfm?ID=52

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Dr.
Posted by: ERG on Jun 29, 2009 6:00 PM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
There are so many distressing things about this development that I hardly know where to begin. First, Republicans and conservatives claim that this tax will target “Cadillac,” plans, “like those evil union members get!” Well, what exactly is a “Cadillac,” health plan? If that little epithet was intended to mean, “a health plan eats up tons of fuel ($$), cannot operate for very long without breaking down catastrophically, and is just generally inefficient,” then this means just about anyone’s health plan right now. If the cap is set so that a family of four would now pay taxes on every dollar over $15,000 paid by the employer for their health plan, a little division shows that this is only $3750 per person. Using the 15,000 figure is just an attempt to fool casual readers/viewers/listeners into thinking, “Oh, I guess I will not be taxed, since I am single and my policy through my employer costs less than that. I guess everything is ok in the health reform bill!”

This is absolutely not true; in fact the cap is based on the average value of a policy that federal workers have and which costs approx. $4,000 per year per person. For the rest of us who are not federal employees, take a look at average insurance policies in your state, because they vary WIDELY, and if you live somewhere like California, you can bet your policy costs substantially more than that. How will your policy be valued? Here is how it would work; whatever you would have to pay to continue your coverage through COBRA, is what your policy would be valued at. I can give you a real-life example: last year, when I received my layoff papers from the Univ. of California (I was lucky to find another position quickly, so I was spared the following scenario), I was informed that it would cost me a little over $800 per month to continue coverage. By my calculation, this would have been at least $9,600 per year. Under this proposal to tax our benefits as income, anything over $4,000 WOULD BE ADDED TO THE WAGE BOX on my W-2 and COUNTED AS INCOME RECEIVED; so voila, instead of paying taxes on my (very) modest $40,000 per year, I would pay taxes on an additional $5,600 per year, because this would count as actual income that I received, although it is actually MONEY being paid by my employer to an INSURANCE COMPANY. Yes, under this plan, you are taxed on money paid to somebody else!!! I can assure you that there is no faster way to more completely undermine and utterly dismantle what little security and incentive the middle class has managed to hang on to, than to begin taxing us on income that somebody else, NOT US, is actually receiving. And please look at the scholarly reports, such as the June report for the Economic Policy Institute, that shows how this taxation would have unequal impact on individuals in employer-sponsored plans due to variation in rates across states, as well as disproportionately hitting those workers with MODEST incomes- NOT THE WEALTHY, as Sen. Bachus and others have falsely claimed.

I should also point out that there will clearly be no complementary legislation in the bill requiring employers to increase our salaries by the amount of the additional tax, which would be dumped on us just when many of us still lucky enough to be in a group plan (right now, this is the only kind that will actually pay any claims if you do get sick, and then not rescind your policy retroactively, after major surgery, chemotherapy, transplants etc) are also seeing alarming pay cuts and increases in State and commodity taxes. After all, what incentive will employers have to increase our wages? Right now they can write off the cost of providing coverage to employees as a business expense, so there is incentive for them to purchase good group plans.

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Dr.
Posted by: ERG on Jun 29, 2009 6:01 PM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
From before: There are several other scholarly articles out there that describe, in chilling detail, the rationale for taxation of health benefits. The best ones also point out that there is really no evidence for any benefit, in terms of cost savings, to using this approach. The reasoning employed to argue for taxation of health benefits goes like this: people with expensive (this does not mean that the plan is necessarily great, but it is a plain fact that INexpensive policies obtained via insurance companies are NEVER comprehensive, so equate “expensive,” with “comprehensive, here) policies that are more comprehensive, MUST BE OVER-USING the healthcare system. I’ll say it again, just because it is so bizarre- if your policy costs more, then you will just overuse the system! I’ll leave this one to the commentators to follow, but I have pretty good coverage, but that does not mean that I am so bored (and/or lonely?!!!) that my idea of a great night out is going to visit the nice people at the Urgent Care. Anyway…since we must be overusing, if we now get taxed on our benefits, we will all decide to move into a CHEAPER (ie., less comprehensive plan with more out-of-pocket costs) that will bring our benefits package BELOW THE TAXATION THRESHOLD, ie $4,000. What would you guess the differences in coverage might be for a $9,600 per year plan and a $4,000 one? A conservative guess might be, probably $ 5,600 in higher deductibles and co-pays, but what if you are hospitalized? Then it will probably mean the difference between 100% of your stay & procedures covered, and you paying at least 20% of the total cost, and it sure adds up fast.

However, the most distressing part about this whole thing is that Candidate Obama campaigned on, and earned our votes with, a clear pledge to keep Taxation of Employer-based health care OFF THE LIST of potential cash cows. As one brilliant person remarked in an interview on NPR recently, “President Obama must be REALLY upset with Candidate Obama for going and raising our hopes like that!” Now, the White House press secretary will not even answer the question when asked, is this campaign promise going to be honored, or not? It is certainly not reassuring to hear the repeated mantra from our President that “all ideas are on the table,” or “nothing is set in stone,” or “no lines in the sand,” and “everyone should bring their ideas to the table.” WHY in the WORLD should Congress spend months bringing “every,” (bad) idea to the table, and fashioning a bill, that President Obama would not sign? The answer there, is there is no logic in wasting the effort on something that will not get signed; but he is content to let “Every Idea,” get into the bills that will be considered. In the end, this is sending a message to me, and to lots of other Progressives: “There are no lines, no absolutes, and nothing is non-negotiable, because in the end I am just going to sign whatever Congress puts in front of me.”

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Alternet Comments:

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It's obvious
Posted by: progressive-life on Jun 19, 2009 10:39 AM   
Current rating: 1    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Obama had no idea what he was talking about during the campaign. McCain apparently was much more on track than Obama in many ways - foreign policy, healthcare etc..

So what we got was someone who had a big wish list, like some kid at Christmas but no idea how it would be paid for!

As Rahm said, it's a shame to let a good crises go to waste!

[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]


Comments are closed-

Finally, A tax Republicans can get behind
Posted by: ohb0b on Jun 19, 2009 12:01 PM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
That was my first reaction when the idea of taxing employer paid health care as income was first floated by George Bush.
But after thinking it through, this could be one more nail in the coffin for our present system of job-based health care if a good public plan were also in place.
This is one area where conservatives are correct... if you want less of an activity, tax it!

[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]


Comments are closed-

Whatever!??!
Posted by: davekall on Jun 19, 2009 6:12 PM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Our country is going down the proverbial toilet. I cannot believe that the idea of a government non-profit health plan is even up for debate? Personally I am all for single payer health care but in this selfish country its obvious that is never going to happen. I have no problem paying higher taxes if our money would go somewhere useful like.....hmmmm...education, health care....and the list goes on. Stupid government band aid programs are never going to cut it. We do not even sneeze at sending 700 billion dollars to corrupt corporations that do not deserve our help in the slightest but when it comes to providing health care for our people we have a political cluster.... We drop thousands of bombs that cost millions of dollars each but our government is not interested in truely helping people in dire need. I would be a little bit skeptical of regulated health care for all but the fact that every other country in the industrialized world has come up with a plan that works makes me say, what the ????????

No matter what you think of Michael Moore he still hits it right on the head when he said, "until we start focusing on the WE instead of the ME nothing is going to change". Come on people, stop being so selfish and really lend a hand to those in need. You never know, that person in need might be YOU or YOUR loved ones someday!

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» RE: Whatever!??! Posted by: ohb0b

Comments are closed-

The Nation and Obama
Posted by: purereason on Jun 20, 2009 6:30 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
All the systems that have taken hold of the nation serve themselves. The financial institutions had no control to the effect that they destroyed themselves and the savings of the millions. The healthcare systems do not serve all, they are the fat calves that must be sacrficed for the benefit of the people, for they changed the nation that stood 'for the people' to one that stands 'for trade'.

Obama was given power when all these fat calves destroyed the nation. Americans became nororious in other parts of the world due to its ruthless invasion of Iraq. All their systems that were supposed to serve the people had nobody to control them, the political leaders were concerned with the affairs of other nations. These leaders could not control these corporations because they were the puppets of these systems. President Obama is trying to chage all those that are supposed to serve the people so that they serve the people better, not the corporations. He has all ingredients to be the greatest of all the Presidents and other national leaders. The only thing that is required is the support of the elected representatives of the people in his efforts to serve the nation and the people. There cannot be any excuses for that. Of course the fat calves will bray calling such efforts foul. Let theirs be their final songs. All these corporations that have taken hold of the people must be recast to serve the people.

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Comments are closed-

Another Nail in Their Coffin
Posted by: Southern Gal on Jun 20, 2009 8:36 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
The Democrats are doing a fine job of destroying themselves with progressives and more main line Democrats as they betray more and more campaign promises. This is another nail in their coffin. I really believe that it's time for a Progressive Party. Let's get Russ Feingold, Bernie Sanders ( I know that he's an Independent but he's so progressive in many ways) and some others to come over to the Progressive Pary. The Democrats have shown themselves to be more Republican than Republicans in some respects. I grew up in a family of Democrats in the South who adored Franklin Delano Roosevelt and then changed to Republican with Reagan, with some exceptions such as me. The Democrats of today serve their corporate masters and have demonstrated that they don't care about us common folk.

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» RE: Another Nail in Their Coffin Posted by: MicroGlyphics

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Unions negotiate for healthcare by giving up other benefits
Posted by: jewels on Jun 22, 2009 4:33 PM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
I do not want a tax as I am a retired union person and do receive my negotiated-in-exchange-for-other-benefits health plan...we are not "given" a health plan and each year that health plan becomes more costly with revised copays and prescription increases on my end....my union membership gave salary cuts, contract givebacks, benefit decreases in exchange to help my "bankrupted" company while the entire upper executive staff and CEO received huge bonuses and increased pay...so, please do not berate the union workers' benefits as we have all paid dearly for what is left in our contracts....I am really tired of the constant "beating" that a union employee receives because the non-union workers didn't fight for unionization or have bought the story that unions are "crooks"....yes, there will always be individuals within the union who seek personal gain rather than representing the membership but it is a far better system to insure that workers are not held powerless as so many nonunion employees appear to be....employee free choice act would insure that all workers would have the right to form unions without employer harrassment and interference....As to taxing employee health care it is our responsibility to make our voices heard by bombarding Congress with emails and phone calls and reminding them that their vote will determine their relection...

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Retired
Posted by: Gerald on Jun 22, 2009 4:56 PM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Should a serious public option or, even better, a single payer plan be passed you can be sure that the costs of employer plans will be reduced dramatically. The Employers will began to push very hard for reduced benefits based on actuarial projections. As an example, when I retired, at 67, 5 years ago, my medical coverage "required" that my primary insurer become Medicare while my company provided health insurance coverage became my secondly carrier, (that is the second insured billed). It's worked out very well; I've had one major operation with 90 per cent paid by Medicare and secondary providers costs are very small. There will be an "in house" Union/Management battle be over how much of the "health benefit" costs will be reduced or "taken back" by the Employers as the benefits begin to be covered by Medicare or Public option.
The Democrats who are discussing taxing benefits should not fall for the Republican tactic aimed at stopping any form of universal health coverage, for the fourth time in the last 100 years.

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Here is a big clue:
Posted by: TruthBeTold on Jun 22, 2009 4:59 PM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
"Policy thinkers and rightward-leaning "Blue Dog" Democrats" don't make up the Democratic Party.

And stop with the republican talking points. Point me to the sources where the President said "we want to tax health benefits. Or you can just STFU.

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Military Budget
Posted by: dumdumboy on Jun 22, 2009 5:25 PM   
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It seems all too obvious to me that the place to get the money for instituting health care reform is simply to take it out of the vastly overinflated military budget. We spend far too much on it as it is. We can start with the F22's that the military doesn't want in the first place.

If Obama does wind-up backing this, it'll just be one more indication that it's not only white men who speak with forked tongues. There's a reason why progressives didn't back Hillary in the primary, after all: we were sick of her hub-bub's policies of appeasing the right-wing. With each passing day the distinctions between Obama and Bubba get fainter and fainter...

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What Tax?
Posted by: ronniejw on Jun 22, 2009 11:45 PM   
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Ok, I've read the entire article and I still don't understand what it's talking about. How is this tax being applied? What exactly is being taxed? Just saying health care is being taxed says nothing.

Ronnie Wright

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Hallelujah!
Posted by: singinghawk926 on Jun 23, 2009 2:29 AM   
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To actually see the words "single-payer" in a public discussion of health care! I must be dreaming!! As a bedside RN I can safely say that the majority of my patients, once they understand what it is, would make this their first choice for the way to remodel our country's health delivery system. We will never have a health care system that works until we eliminate the influence and control exercised by the giant voracious middleman: the insurance companies. Only single-payer does this.

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Control the rising cost of healthcare
Posted by: mld6788 on Jun 23, 2009 2:31 PM   
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Encouraging a workplace health program is a great way to lower overall health care costs and to improve employee health. Companies of all sizes can incorporate wellness and prevention into the workplace. Find out how at http://www.friendsoftheuschamber.com/issues/index.cfm?ID=52

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Dr.
Posted by: ERG on Jun 29, 2009 6:00 PM   
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There are so many distressing things about this development that I hardly know where to begin. First, Republicans and conservatives claim that this tax will target “Cadillac,” plans, “like those evil union members get!” Well, what exactly is a “Cadillac,” health plan? If that little epithet was intended to mean, “a health plan eats up tons of fuel ($$), cannot operate for very long without breaking down catastrophically, and is just generally inefficient,” then this means just about anyone’s health plan right now. If the cap is set so that a family of four would now pay taxes on every dollar over $15,000 paid by the employer for their health plan, a little division shows that this is only $3750 per person. Using the 15,000 figure is just an attempt to fool casual readers/viewers/listeners into thinking, “Oh, I guess I will not be taxed, since I am single and my policy through my employer costs less than that. I guess everything is ok in the health reform bill!”

This is absolutely not true; in fact the cap is based on the average value of a policy that federal workers have and which costs approx. $4,000 per year per person. For the rest of us who are not federal employees, take a look at average insurance policies in your state, because they vary WIDELY, and if you live somewhere like California, you can bet your policy costs substantially more than that. How will your policy be valued? Here is how it would work; whatever you would have to pay to continue your coverage through COBRA, is what your policy would be valued at. I can give you a real-life example: last year, when I received my layoff papers from the Univ. of California (I was lucky to find another position quickly, so I was spared the following scenario), I was informed that it would cost me a little over $800 per month to continue coverage. By my calculation, this would have been at least $9,600 per year. Under this proposal to tax our benefits as income, anything over $4,000 WOULD BE ADDED TO THE WAGE BOX on my W-2 and COUNTED AS INCOME RECEIVED; so voila, instead of paying taxes on my (very) modest $40,000 per year, I would pay taxes on an additional $5,600 per year, because this would count as actual income that I received, although it is actually MONEY being paid by my employer to an INSURANCE COMPANY. Yes, under this plan, you are taxed on money paid to somebody else!!! I can assure you that there is no faster way to more completely undermine and utterly dismantle what little security and incentive the middle class has managed to hang on to, than to begin taxing us on income that somebody else, NOT US, is actually receiving. And please look at the scholarly reports, such as the June report for the Economic Policy Institute, that shows how this taxation would have unequal impact on individuals in employer-sponsored plans due to variation in rates across states, as well as disproportionately hitting those workers with MODEST incomes- NOT THE WEALTHY, as Sen. Bachus and others have falsely claimed.

I should also point out that there will clearly be no complementary legislation in the bill requiring employers to increase our salaries by the amount of the additional tax, which would be dumped on us just when many of us still lucky enough to be in a group plan (right now, this is the only kind that will actually pay any claims if you do get sick, and then not rescind your policy retroactively, after major surgery, chemotherapy, transplants etc) are also seeing alarming pay cuts and increases in State and commodity taxes. After all, what incentive will employers have to increase our wages? Right now they can write off the cost of providing coverage to employees as a business expense, so there is incentive for them to purchase good group plans.

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Dr.
Posted by: ERG on Jun 29, 2009 6:01 PM   
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From before: There are several other scholarly articles out there that describe, in chilling detail, the rationale for taxation of health benefits. The best ones also point out that there is really no evidence for any benefit, in terms of cost savings, to using this approach. The reasoning employed to argue for taxation of health benefits goes like this: people with expensive (this does not mean that the plan is necessarily great, but it is a plain fact that INexpensive policies obtained via insurance companies are NEVER comprehensive, so equate “expensive,” with “comprehensive, here) policies that are more comprehensive, MUST BE OVER-USING the healthcare system. I’ll say it again, just because it is so bizarre- if your policy costs more, then you will just overuse the system! I’ll leave this one to the commentators to follow, but I have pretty good coverage, but that does not mean that I am so bored (and/or lonely?!!!) that my idea of a great night out is going to visit the nice people at the Urgent Care. Anyway…since we must be overusing, if we now get taxed on our benefits, we will all decide to move into a CHEAPER (ie., less comprehensive plan with more out-of-pocket costs) that will bring our benefits package BELOW THE TAXATION THRESHOLD, ie $4,000. What would you guess the differences in coverage might be for a $9,600 per year plan and a $4,000 one? A conservative guess might be, probably $ 5,600 in higher deductibles and co-pays, but what if you are hospitalized? Then it will probably mean the difference between 100% of your stay & procedures covered, and you paying at least 20% of the total cost, and it sure adds up fast.

However, the most distressing part about this whole thing is that Candidate Obama campaigned on, and earned our votes with, a clear pledge to keep Taxation of Employer-based health care OFF THE LIST of potential cash cows. As one brilliant person remarked in an interview on NPR recently, “President Obama must be REALLY upset with Candidate Obama for going and raising our hopes like that!” Now, the White House press secretary will not even answer the question when asked, is this campaign promise going to be honored, or not? It is certainly not reassuring to hear the repeated mantra from our President that “all ideas are on the table,” or “nothing is set in stone,” or “no lines in the sand,” and “everyone should bring their ideas to the table.” WHY in the WORLD should Congress spend months bringing “every,” (bad) idea to the table, and fashioning a bill, that President Obama would not sign? The answer there, is there is no logic in wasting the effort on something that will not get signed; but he is content to let “Every Idea,” get into the bills that will be considered. In the end, this is sending a message to me, and to lots of other Progressives: “There are no lines, no absolutes, and nothing is non-negotiable, because in the end I am just going to sign whatever Congress puts in front of me.”

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