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Environment

The Superstitious Right Fights Good Science on Global Warming

By David Michael Green, AlterNet. Posted July 7, 2008.


In a society devoted like no other to the politics of fear, we have somehow managed to forget the one thing we should probably fear most.
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We live in the most astonishing of times, politically speaking.

And I don't mean that as a compliment.

There is so much I would hate to try to explain to an alien about our politics. Same with a human five centuries from now -- it's just that I'm not so sure there'll be any.

One president has oral sex in a private consensual relationship and lies about it, so right-wing freaks spend $40 million to investigate this most heinous of crimes and bring impeachment charges against a president for only the second time in American history. Meanwhile, one of their own trashes the Constitution at every turn and isn't even investigated, let alone impeached, let alone removed from office.

This same president plunged the world into war on the basis of non-existent weapons of mass destruction in Iraq, but couldn't be less concerned when North Korea actually goes nuclear on his watch. This president went to war to bring democracy to the Arab world, but can't even be bothered to pressure Egypt or Saudi Arabia to move a tad in that direction. This president uses an attack on the US to justify international belligerence and mass human rights violations, but doesn't seem very interested in even attacking, let alone vanquishing, the supposed perpetrator.

We could go on and on detailing the ludicrous inanities of American politics in the age of Bush (himself Exhibit A), but really my favorite has to be the case of global warming. In a society devoted like no other to the politics of fear, we have somehow managed to forget the one thing we should probably fear most.

Imagine if there was a meteor headed toward our one and only planet, with the potential to do devastating and possibly lethal damage to the planet. Imagine that we had the technological capability to divert the course of this weapon of the massiest mass destruction, and all we needed was the will to do so. And imagine that we chose to focus our society's energies instead on ... gay marriage. Or illegal immigration. Or premarital sex.

Not only would we screw up all of those policy areas, but we be toast anyhow, along with all our unmarried gays, undocumented workers and 'virgin' teenagers (who have anyhow become experts at anal and oral sex in order to avoid the forbidden kind). So, what fool handed us the keys to this planetary oil tanker? Shouldn't, like, um, the Swedes or the Norwegians be the world's Only Superpower? They seem harmless enough.

Remember Dick Cheney's 'one percent doctrine'? He argued that if there's even a one percent chance of a terrorist attack, you have to go on the offensive. There's this little thing called cost-benefit analysis that seems to have gone sorely missing over the last, er, eight years or so. It was last seen flowing down the sewers of Baghdad. It would lead to a conclusion that yes, you should take threats seriously, but that if the solution to a one percent probability of danger that could threaten the lives of a thousand people is to adopt a policy which definitely kills 100 million of your own citizens, that's probably a bad plan. Costs and benefits, you see. I mean, people can differ on this, of course, but I'd vote to take the one percent risk in such a case. Admittedly, though, that's not so helpful when you're in the middle of trying to scare the hell out of people so they'll vote for you, or acquiesce to your destructive policies.

But I digress. There is a monstrous catastrophe not only headed our way, but actually already here. I'm not a climatologist, but my sense from paying attention to media reporting on this issue over the last two decades is that there is not only a one percent chance that global warming is both real and anthropogenic, but rather a ninety-five percent chance. Perhaps ninety-nine. Yep, sure, there are a few scientists out there still making the opposite argument. Probably some of them aren't even on oil company payrolls! But the vast majority of reputable climate scientists now agree that this is happening, that we are making it happen, and that the results will be catastrophic. This, after ten and twenty years of a (somewhat) healthy scientific skepticism about those claims, which only further underscores the validity of the findings.

Last week we had James Hansen reminding Congress, twenty years after originally doing so, of the gravity of this situation. One of the top scientists from one of America's premier science agencies -- who was told, by the way, to shut the hell up by the Bush administration -- was reminding us yet again that we are facing mass species extinctions and ecosystem collapse among the lovely perils awaiting us if we continue in the current direction. Assuming, that is, that it isn't already far too late to turn it around now.

Think about that for a second: Mass extinction. Ecosystem collapse. Meteor. Ninety-five or better percent chance.

Gay marriage.

So what will they say about us five centuries from now -- those very few, very toasty, remaining humans, living on mountain tops, the only dry land to be found? What they'll say is probably unprintable in any family newspaper, that's for sure. But in-between the expletives I think you'd be likely to find words like ... "unconscionable" ... "breathtakingly stupid" ... "astonishingly selfish" ... and, "If you weren't already dead I'd kill you!"

Indeed, we -- or at least some of us -- half-deserve this fate for choosing the likes of Nixon, Reagan, Bush, DeLay, Scalia and the rest these last decades. It's the rest of the world I feel especially sorry for.

And what's especially killer about this particular issue is the degree to which the multiple maladies and solutions all line up so neatly. Sometimes the cosmos sends you a message in very subtle ways. Other times it beats you over the head with a two-by-four. Occasionally, it detonates a small nuclear device in your backyard swimming pool to get your attention.

We're very much in the latter category right now. You don't exactly have to do a full and complete inventory to figure this one out. Here, just take this pop quiz. Quick, now: What factor do all of the following items have in common: massive environmental devastation, skyrocketing transportation and food prices, a declining middle-class with disappearing jobs, and a war-prone and constant calamity-threatening Middle East continually sucking in American military involvement and nightmarishly distorting our foreign policy? (If you're somehow still struggling with this, you may want to consider spending a little more time catching up with current events. Meanwhile, though, here's a bonus hint for you: Alan Greenspan described this as the real reason America went to war in Iraq.)

Now flip it on its head. What would be a way in which our society could address the massive threats of global warming, a sinking middle class with lousy jobs, poverty-inducing energy costs and military nightmares in the Middle East, all at once? How about if we made it a giant national priority to wean ourselves off carbon-based energy sources through a variety of policies mixing incentives and regulations, and a huge national effort to develop alternative fuel sources, with all the industrial development and good-paying jobs associated with launching such industries? What did Jimmy Carter call it, thirty freakin' years ago? "The moral equivalent of war", wasn't it? Too bad he was a failed president, though. Hardly invaded any other countries. What could he possibly have known?

So, last week James Hansen reminded us that we are headed for such joyous 'lifestyle changes' as mass extinction and ecosystem collapse. Of course, most regressives continued to pooh-pooh such warnings as some sort of liberal conspiracy to undermine capitalism. Do climatologists seriously strike anybody as crypto-anarchists masquerading as scientists in order to destroy capitalism? And, if that was really their goal, wouldn't there be a lot easier ways to crash the system than to go spend years getting a PhD, do a bunch of boring research for low pay, and grade a million mind-numbing term papers written by a million grammatically-challenged college sophomores?

Then there's that pesky little problem of evidence. Every week there's more, though hardly any quite as egregious as what you could have seen on CNN.com just a few days ago: "North Pole Could Be Ice-Free This Summer, Scientists Say".

What will they say -- assuming there are any "they" left to be saying things -- in five centuries about us nice folks who managed to bequeath the solar system a second Mercury where a green and fertile planet once stood, just so we could party a little longer? I'm not sure, but I don't think it will be pretty.

These regressive fools and their pre-/anti-scientific religious superstitions just kill me.

And that's just the problem. They're killing all of us.

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David Michael Green is a professor of political science at Hofstra University. He is delighted to receive readers' reactions to his articles (dmg@regressiveantidote.net), but regrets that time constraints do not always allow him to respond. More of his work can be found at www.regressiveantidote.net.

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View:
Few understand how serious it is
Posted by: dobermanmacleod on Jul 7, 2008 12:45 AM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
"Few seem to realise that the present IPCC models predict almost unanimously that by 2040 the average summer in Europe will be as hot as the summer of 2003 when over 30,000 died from heat. By then we may cool ourselves with air conditioning and learn to live in a climate no worse than that of Baghdad now. But without extensive irrigation the plants will die and both farming and natural ecosystems will be replaced by scrub and desert. What will there be to eat? The same dire changes will affect the rest of the world and I can envisage Americans migrating into Canada and the Chinese into Siberia but there may be little food for any of them." --Dr James Lovelock's lecture to the Royal Society, 29 Oct. '07

In case you doubt the above; we warmed at 0.2C/decade the last two decades, and warming will accelerate, probably doubling by mid-century:

"Leemans and Eickhout (2004) found that adaptive capacity decreases rapidly with an increasing rate of climate change. Their study finds that five percent of all ecosystems cannot adapt more quickly than 0.1 C per decade over time. Forests will be among the ecosystems to experience problems first because their ability to migrate to stay within the climate zone they are adapted to is limited. If the rate is 0.3 C per decade, 15 percent of ecosystems will not be able to adapt. If the rate should exceed 0.4 C per decade, all ecosystems will be quickly destroyed, opportunistic species will dominate, and the breakdown of biological material will lead to even greater emissions of CO2. This will in turn increase the rate of warming" --Leemans and Eickhout (2004), "Another reason for concern: regional and global impacts on ecosystems for different levels of climate change," Global Environmental Change 14, 219–228

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» Choose your trees wisely Posted by: HoboHomo
» Amish are king! Posted by: carbon-based
» RE: Amish are king! Posted by: Lauren
» RE: Amish are king! Posted by: carbon-based
» Corporate or religious Rethugs Posted by: bobtr900
» what are you on about Posted by: pete1029
» Ah, very interesting Posted by: PaulC
from 10.000 years ago
Posted by: richholland on Jul 7, 2008 1:28 AM   
Current rating: 4    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
at the end of the Ice Age global warming caused a sealevel raise of 120 meters.
So England and Ireland became islands.
Even with the worst scenario ( 10 % chance) we expect in Europe 5 metres in more then 100 years.

The federal states of Europe decide to have renewable and alternative energy between 15 and 20 % around the year 2020.

There is no reason for panics if the governements (public) and the companies (private and profit orientated) work together and the aim of the activities is to serve humanity instead of profit .

It is not fair to complain because so much money is needed for the WARS.
It is not possible to invest in the effects of the normal natural climate change
AND the militairy.

AS in the Al Gore movie, drastic changes of activities in the USA, a return to the live of our grandparents are not required if the uSA has the same energy need of Schwitzerland or Scandinavia the average people will have probably a better life then now.
Unless the American Dream of "Freedom"" means every billionaire has the right to have his private Jetplane.

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» RE: from 10.000 years ago Posted by: edith
All things die
Posted by: teel on Jul 7, 2008 2:48 AM   
Current rating: 4    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
So what?

People are such arrogant selfish little pricks that they honestly consider themselves the center of the universe. This little hamster-wheel that we've created for ourselves is the thing that matters, nothing else. The rain forest can get bent for all we care, as long as the wheel keeps spinning. Meanwhile people keep ranting about how children are out future. Children are not our future, they represent another turn of the hamster wheel. Doesn't mean that the wheel is going places, doesn't mean that we're getting any closer to having a meaning to our rampaging existance.

If there where 8-900 million of us, we'd be living it up with ample resources to draw from and with plenty of time for the planet to catch up and reproduce what we use. As a matter of fact we had that at one point, and clever cats that we are we humped ourselves out of it because, yes that's right, the children are our future.

Let me ask you this. At what point shall we say that the population has grown enough? 8 billion? 9? How much quality of life are you prepared to surrender so that we can have a few more people-of-the-future running around in the rest of the world? So with this infesting, breeding and out of control biped running amoc what's a planet to do? What would you do? There was bound to be a response to us, sooner of later. We're shortsighted creatures with egos the size of mount everest and we're all convinced "I" am the best thing since slized bread and frozen pizza. The planet will push us off the cliff, and I for one can only say to mother nature "you go girl".

People are not the "center of the universe" and we don't matter one bit. Get over yourselves. Imagine an anthill in a forest, an anthill you don't even know exists. All of a sudden a wildfire completely destroys the anthill, thousands of dead ants resulting. An entire society wiped away in seconds. How do you feel about it? Give a crap much? I'd guess not seeing as flashfloods in asia with 80.000 people dead receives a "wow that sucks" kind of response from most people. Let's imagine a meteor crashes into our planet, and the whole thing just explodes. Just explodes, the whole thing caput, gone, no more people, no more roaches, no more nothing. What do you suppose the rest of the universe says in the eerie silence that follows?

"wow that sucks"

Not don't get me wrong, I'm not some bitter nutcase walking the streets with signs that the world is ending. I have a job that I enjoy, a girl that I love and life is pretty damn sweet. I watch all of this calammity with a surprised amusement. I'm enjoying life and I'm enjoying the show but I don't think for a second that we as beings matter to anyone but ourselves, and I certainly don't believe that we're good in any way shape of form for the planet. It would do a whole lot better without us, a whoooole lot better folks. My popcorn is done, bring on the apocalypse.

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» RE: All things die Posted by: Knot_Rich
» RE: All things die Posted by: PeterW
» RE: All things die Posted by: HoboHomo
» RE: All things die Posted by: john mont
» i agree 100% ... Posted by: ptown
» RE: All things die Posted by: HoboHomo
» RE: All things die Posted by: mr. joshua
» Or perhaps... Posted by: LeeAnnG
31,000 Scientists Have Signed a Petition Denying That Man Is Responsible For Global Warming
Posted by: opmoc on Jul 7, 2008 4:53 AM   
Current rating: 2    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Climate change is completely normal. Its always changed and always will. Humans do not have the capability to significantly alter it - except by letting off all their nuclear weapons at the same time. Even that will only affect the climate for a few years and the cockroaches should do fine.


linked text

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» RE: More theocratic reasoning Posted by: Libsrule
James Hansen Censored?
Posted by: bburk on Jul 7, 2008 5:10 AM   
Current rating: 2    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Dr. Hansen conducted hundreds of press interviews during this period that he claims he was censored by the Bush Administration. Professor, do your homework before spreading false information to your students and the public.

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» Rhetoric Posted by: LeeAnnG
Democracy starts in one's own backyard
Posted by: outlook on Jul 7, 2008 5:12 AM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
'This President went to war to bring democracy to the Arab Nations'. Can anyone truly declare that Bush was fairly and democratically elected? Lets turn back the clock; Gore becomes President. Is 9/11 now inevitable? If possibly 'yes', would he have used it as an excuse to create a war for oil?
Is it not more likely that large funds would have been mobilised to transform American infrastructure and minimise oil dependancy? Sadly, we will never know, the American people colluded with that travesty 'Election 2000' and bought into the fear in the wake of 9/11.

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a lot of it comes right down to selfish egoism
Posted by: aislinnluv on Jul 7, 2008 5:53 AM   
Current rating: 4    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
and we see the attitudes reinforced every day. what could be more ego-pumping than driving the biggest, baddest piece of automotive crap in the known universe (hummer)? oh, maybe it would be having 17 children?? almost any day on cable channels you can see a program extolling the extraordinary virtues (?) of procreating beyond any reasonable limit. look for "jon and kate plus 8" or find one of the many programs that have been aired about that weird family that has now 18 children, all of whose names begin with the letter j. whatever happened to "zero population growth"? have we lost sight of it because we now tolerate with "compassion" endless fertility treatments for couples with whom Nature has refused to cooperate, which often result in multiple births? the trough is only so long, and we are seeing now not only the far side of the trough, but also an end to our ability to fill it. human egos inflate to presume that the individual interest trumps the general good ("i want to make more money so i will develop this little piece of land, razing all the trees, removing habitats for multiple species, inviting disastrous runoff/flooding...") WTF, people? rewrite that gem from WWII... they came for the deer, and i said nothing, because i am not a deer...

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This is really alarming...
Posted by: loxias on Jul 7, 2008 6:03 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
that I made it through my teens not finding any experts on oral and anal sex. No fair! As for the rest of it, you might as well be copying from Psalms. Those that believe, will lie peacefully with their faith, uninterested in your opinion. Those that understand, don't have a clue how they can stop giant global mining, manufacturing, and other poisonous enterprises from destroying the planet. I'm sure some of those were folks who think Obama is going to do something about it. Rarely, if ever, does the track change directions before a catastrophe. I think the biggest distraction is all this media focus on selling people that THEY can make a difference. Don't get me wrong, a low-impact lifestyle is great. But if you think the combined effect of 50 million individuals (which is a bigger number than I think actually will) running their shower into a bucket, or coasting on the freeway, will somehow mediate the ecological cost of big business, global shipping and resource extraction, well, all I can say is, lie peacefully with your faith. It will soon be all you have. Once the disaster is bad enough, regulation will be re-visited in government, amidst a scarred world. This cycle is as old as ... well, we are.

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» RE: This is really alarming... Posted by: WyrdSister
Just watch out: if the anti-science "frankenfood" shriekers ever align...
Posted by: ABetterFuture on Jul 7, 2008 6:08 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
...with their counterparts on the right, they may become audible enough to matter.

A little.

Science marches on.

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» I'm not questioning your faith. Posted by: ABetterFuture
Environmental Pollution has got Significantly Worse in Some Parts Of The World
Posted by: opmoc on Jul 7, 2008 7:04 AM   
Current rating: 2    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Like China and India

In other parts of the World both attitudes and practices have dramtically improved.

If you check out a film made in 1971 - Get Carter - it shows coal waste being dumped directly into the North Sea continuously. So less than 40 years ago such practice was actually "acceptable".

Most of the UK was still running on coal. North Sea oil and gas was only just starting.

The air was highly polluted as a result of people burning coal directly in all towns across the country.

Now of course developing and exploiting North Sea oil and gas will have caused some environmental destruction to the North Sea, but the environmental benefits greatly outweighed the destruction.

The environment improved dramatically to the benefit of everyone living in the UK.

No one ever mentions that at least in some parts of the World - that the environment has actually improved - and this improvement is largely due to technical progress.

All we get is continual doom mongering from rich elite appointed preachers most of who'm have no real understanding of fundamental science and are merely spinning the party line which funds their existence.

The real agenda is World Government and World depopulation by those "who know what's best for us"

Its the radical Left who are actually in an unseen partnership with the radical Right.

They are in control of your mind in a similar way as the Pope is with Catholics and in a similar way like the masses who vote for people like George Bush.

No one is telling the truth. Science is being junked to be replaced by Faith.

How do you KNOW virtually anything you believe is actually true?

Did Jesus Christ actually exist as a real live human being around 2,000 years ago - or had the entire story been around and recycled for thousands of years before he was supposedly born?

And does it matter if Billions of people believe in fairy stories? They obviously need them as religion has been endemic throughout human history. It doesn't actually make any of it true though.

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You ask why?
Posted by: reelectnoone on Jul 7, 2008 7:20 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Ref: "Meanwhile, one of their own trashes the Constitution at every turn and isn't even investigated, let alone impeached, let alone removed from office."

Republicans impeached for political reasons, nothing to do with right or wrong. They are dirty fighters that way and have low morals about using Congress for political gain.

Democrats tend to be spineless and uncoordinated and unable to agree on anything. Tend to fight a bit cleaner.

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» RE: You ask why? Posted by: aonghus36
Rational Left Fights Good Science
Posted by: solrev on Jul 7, 2008 8:00 AM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
“How about if we made it a giant national priority to wean ourselves off carbon-based energy sources”
The left has such a narrow mindset we are doomed to create another ice age. Maybe the next interglacial people will learn from our mistakes. We mystics view our selves on a journey through the space-time continuum, which we call the dimension of the flush. You rational people have a real problem thinking in the correct scale.

Here our some stats from my state:

Illinois Stats Annual (approx.) usage MW (where necessary MW estimated from co2 footprint)
Nuclear 11500
Fossil fuel 15000
Transportation 12000
Industrial 7500
Residential 4500
Commercial 2000

Total solar replacement required 52500 MW (Ignore solar ½ on time avg. output zero) co2 foot print 230 million metric tons annual

Nevada Solar One 64 MW .5 sq. mi.

.5 sq. mi./64 MW - 410 sq. mi./52500 MW
@ 260 million $ /64 MW - 213 trillion $ /52500 MW
184000 mirrors/64MW - 151 million mirrors/52500 MW
7 million tons aluminum/64 MW - 6 billion tons aluminum/52500 MW

Is there enough extruded aluminum on the planet, for the planet to go electric? How much co2 was released into the atmosphere to create a 64 MW thermal plant? How much co2 will be released on a planetary scale to go electric? We mystics ask this question. How can we go electric on this planet and repair the damage to the carbon cycle that we have already caused? The green machine has too big of a co2 footprint to create, but it is just good business and that has always been our problem, but it is bad science. The fossil fuel boys are going to make a fortune building your green machines. The carbon cycle has supported life on this planet for two billion years, use it or lose it.

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The military
Posted by: kahalab on Jul 7, 2008 3:24 PM   
Current rating: 4    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Do you know which sector in America is the biggest contributor to the greenhouse effect? The military. Want to make a major change in greenhouse gas emissions, then do like Costa Rica and eliminate the military. Of course, if you think that they will give up the empire and all the fun of killing and torturing and destroying and raping and abusing and distorting just cus it might save billions of humans then you really don't understand what it's all about to be a sociopathic psychopath.

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Maybe he should be ashamed of himself.
Posted by: Beck on Jul 7, 2008 6:26 PM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Maybe we should ALL be ashamed of ourselves!

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Are any subjective agendas compatable with science?
Posted by: Dickinseattl on Jul 7, 2008 7:29 PM   
Current rating: 3    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
If CO-2 is the weakest of the greenhouse gases comprising less than 2%, and we contribute around 3%, are we looking in the right areas for global warming? How many solar cycles have been documented and what are they? How many different Earth orbit cycles are there? What influence does the solar wind have? On what? If you don't address these issues what is your real agenda?

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» LOL! Whatever! n/m Posted by: PaulC
Where's the beef (the science)?
Posted by: Romans1 on Jul 7, 2008 8:47 PM   
Current rating: 3    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
In the whole article there was no science discussed at all. It was just a rant and it didn't even stick to the subject. You want me to believe in global warming? OK Where's the science. WHERE'S THE SCIENCE?

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cooling and warming graph
Posted by: BobbyIrons on Jul 7, 2008 8:47 PM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
http://icecap.us/images/uploads/Warm_periods.jpg

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The dynosaurs lasted millions of years
Posted by: donl51 on Jul 7, 2008 8:51 PM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
then died off to no real fault of their own ,then followed the mammals until finally man appeared,a thinking entity,the way I see it we had our chance at a long usefull life and blew it!!time to end!...and let the planet recoup and move on....perhaps something w/real brains will make a better go at it.....''nothing lasts forever''certainly man won't!!

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Global Warming and Evolution
Posted by: Romans1 on Jul 7, 2008 10:11 PM   
Current rating: 3    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
I don't believe in either one as the two combined have become a man-centered religion.

But if they are both true...

what's the problem?

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wrong priorities
Posted by: pete1029 on Jul 8, 2008 1:36 AM   
Current rating: 3    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Billions of people living in poverty, hundreds of millions of people who go hungry every day and do not have access to clean drinking water. 10's of millions of people infected with AIDS, all of these problems are happening right this second and what problem does the author seem most concerned about, none of these that exist right now, are affecting vast amounts of the globe and it population right now. No the author seems more concerned about a distant issue of which we are still not sure of what its impacts will be and will not arise for decades. Never mind that it is highly improbable that global warming can be stopped. I’m sorry but when we have got so many people in the world suffering right now, how about we try and focus upon them and fixing their problems rather then turning our attention to a far of problem which will not arise for decades.

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» You don't get it Posted by: PaulC
» RE: You don't get it Posted by: LeeAnnG
» LOL! Thanks LeeAnnG! Posted by: PaulC
» RE: You don't get it Posted by: pete1029
The determined troll attack on this thread is further proof of the author's thesis
Posted by: PaulC on Jul 8, 2008 8:25 AM   
Current rating: 1    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
regarding how important this issue is to the far right. They fully understand what is at stake for their vested corporate interests and will go to any length to slow down the inevitable tide of changing public awareness of the issues, especially as it begins to affect the latter personally.

It has been documented (the British progressive paper the Guardian) that the right wing think tanks, flush with hundreds of millions of corporate dollars, and other corporate backed entities are subcontracting out a 24/7 troll presence on progressive websites across the globe, websites like Alternet.

So be alert and insist on the facts. Do not be swayed by sloppy reasoning.

peace,
Paul

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You're ALL wrong -- it's going to be a COLD HELL....
Posted by: alaskagrrl on Jul 8, 2008 8:57 AM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
I'm a simple electrician living in Alaska but I know two things for certain:

1- the earth has a thermostat. It MUST to have kept the temperature steady all this time.

2- that thermostat has been tripped.

Yup -- you heard it here first.

I'm a wilderness guide and 25 years ago I was calling for notice that our glaciers had turned black in summer due to melting. Nobody listened. Now I watch as all you people argue like you actually know something original...

WHILE NOBODY IS NOTICES THAT ALASKA'S IS MISSING SUMMER !

This July Day is 49 degrees. All of Alaska is cold where it should be warm and has been all year -- and last year too. We've had enormous glacier-building snows in recent winters, never seen the like in 30 years. Even the weathermen are talking about it here, wondering about our 'summer without summer'.

While the S**t hits the fan you people are trying to find some magical solution from their desk !!~!~

Hey, we broke the damn thing -- pay attention and start fixing it ! This incessant chatter isn't doing a damn thing.

Either work to fix things in the REAL WORLD (instead of cyberspace) -- or grab a kayak and head for lonely places.

Just know I'll be there first...

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» RE: Posted by: jon B
What is Science?
Posted by: mcstewey on Jul 8, 2008 10:07 AM   
Current rating: 4    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
We have to be very careful what we call "science." Science has become a catch-all phrase used by politicians, activists and anyone with an agenda to add credibility to their argument. We CANNOT talk about what science is in the context of a consumer capitalist political economy. Science follows trends just like everything else. Take a look at Thomas Kuhn's "The Structure of Scientific Revolutions" to get a better idea.

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Fear?
Posted by: uncleeddie on Jul 8, 2008 7:10 PM   
Current rating: 4    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Politics of FEAR? That's the fabled story of CO2 caused global warming. Now since the temperatures won't cooperate it's climate change. Chicken Little would be impressed. Not to be outdone is the fable that the Democrats will fix anything. War and fear will continue while all the chickens will pay a CARBON TAX! Yes the man who lied in "An Inconvenient Truth" that ice cores showed CO2 caused temperature rise when in fact temperatures caused CO2 to rise owns an OIL COMPANY and won't divest in it. HMMMMMMMMMMMMMMM.

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Now we are seeing a late stage troll attack. Here is an overview of troll tactics:
Posted by: PaulC on Jul 9, 2008 7:46 AM   
Current rating: 1    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
The following is taken from "searchlores.org/trolls.htm" (not an endorsement, it may even be a troll training site).

* Definitions *

A troll is basically one who posts messages intended to insult and provoke ... For each person who responds, the poster (the troll as a person) will consider that person "caught". The troll (the troll as an action) is considered to have been a complete success if it disrupts beyond repair the normal traffic on a newsgroup or on a messageboard. Variants include:

1.spamming troll, one who posts -or crossposts on many newsgroups- the same, exact post, multiple times (mostly one liners: "cascade"). Some of these 'listings' with all answers and counter-answers, can grow into huge files.

2. kook: a regular poster who continually posts messages with no apparent grounding in reality. The kook trademark is paranoia and grandiosity.

3. A flamer is one who contributes nothing but uninformative "ad hominem" bickering. His inventivity in names-calling and "hurting tooth poking" fears no matches. Even a good troll will never win against a good flamer. Heed the (sound) advice: never answer to a troll (not even in order to flame him, see below).

4. A shill is one who posts messages as a spokesperson or "front" for an unseen group or organization, usually at odds to the topics being discussed. The shills have joined trolls as parasitical newsgroup fauna, destroying the balance of free discussion, degrading the level of information, feeding like preditors on newsgroup populations...

* Victory *

Ideally, signs of victory are:

* Majority or ALL threads in invaded newsgroup were started by us

* Regulars/legit people abandon invaded newsgroup

* Characteristics of Trolls *

1) They have a lot of free time, they are mostly lonely people. They may sit on a site 24/7, often making dozens of posts over a short period of time. The content of these posts often starts off with a semi-serious subject but flames up when a non-troll responds, ie is "captured", and the discussion quickly becomes an incoherent babble.

2) They often ingratiate themselves to a person or two on the group and use them to stay in the group. They may protest with these "friends" that their right to free speech is being curtailed.

3) They sometimes use "socketpuppets", i.e. fake identities that may be used to sustain, or to inflame the troll's position or theory or attack. At times the socket puppets' names are anagrams or similar to the troll name. Thus a troll may engage in artificial conversations with himself. However impersonating multiple people is frowned upon by the more able trolls and is considered the lowest of the possible troll tactics.

a favorite tactic of organized troll groups is to plant a "mole" into the group - someone who looks and acts like a regular visitor / reader. Often, the mole is planted a few weeks to a month in advance of an attack wave.

* Fighting Back *

Usually the best method when dealing with trolls is always the same: NEVER ANSWER TO THEIR POSTINGS! ("Please do not feed the troll")
The whole point of trolling is to have you react. So do not react!


peace,
Paul

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earth_saver
Posted by: earth_saver on Jul 9, 2008 11:41 AM   
Current rating: 3    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
And Dr. Hansen was predicting the same imminent end of the world 20 years ago. So, because he says it before Congress it has to be true? Must be everything Alberto Gonzales said was true also.

Dr. Hansen is convinced he is right and nothing can change his mind. When you get to that state you can no longer be considered a scientist because you no longer abide by the basic principles of science which require continuous examination of theories. A position with NASA doesn't make you by default the all-knowing source of the only truth.

We can't even predict the weather for next wednesday let alone next century, we sure as heck can't control the climate, and mother nature doesn't give a damn about mankind. Its time we get over ourselves and go back to the basics - conservation of all natural resources and recycling of those that we can reuse. All this crap about cap-and-trade or a carbon tax is a smokescreen that will accomplish no real reduction in CO2 emissions - it will however make a few brokers very rich.

If we really care about the world we would take on the issues that plague the poverty stricken portions of the world now - lack of food, water, and medicine. But we would rather say don't worry we are going to stop global warming in 100 years - so just sit tight you'll be better off then.

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» Muddy But Cool Posted by: edith
RE: We need to think on a larger scale, the earth its ecosystems.
Posted by: edith on Jul 10, 2008 9:50 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
How come most of the warming since the end of the Little Ice Age occurred prior to 1940? Not too many cars or people served by power plants then as compared to now?

This climate change scam for scientists whoring off federal and UN contracts will come to an end because the nations who really count in this debate will thumb their noses at you hysterics. China and India are not regressing back to the Middle Ages to satisfy some self-aggrandizing hustler like James Hansen or some totalitarian fruitcake like Bill McKibben and his acolytes at Alternet!

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» Live in that bubble! n/m Posted by: PaulC
The extinction of Homo Sapiens kills everybody
Posted by: AsteroidMiner on Jul 11, 2008 11:06 PM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Environmental policy = energy policy
Energy policy = environmental policy
because Global Warming
can lead to Hydrogen Sulfide gas coming out of the oceans.

Hydrogen Sulfide gas will Kill all people. Homo Sap will go
EXTINCT unless drastic action is taken.

October 2006 Scientific American

"EARTH SCIENCE
Impact from the Deep
Strangling heat and gases emanating from the earth and sea, not
asteroids, most likely caused several ancient mass extinctions.
Could the same killer-greenhouse conditions build once again?
By Peter D. Ward
downloaded from:
http://www.sciam.com/
article.cfm?articleID=
00037A5D-A938-150E-
A93883414B7F0000&
sc=I100322
....................Most of the article omitted......................
But with atmospheric carbon climbing at an annual rate of 2 ppm
and expected to accelerate to 3 ppm, levels could approach 900
ppm by the end of the next century, and conditions that bring
about the beginnings of ocean anoxia may be in place. How soon
after that could there be a new greenhouse extinction? That is
something our society should never find out."

Press Release
Pennsylvania State University
FOR IMMEDIATE RELEASE
Monday, Nov. 3, 2003
downloaded from:
http://www.geosociety.org/meetings/2003/prPennStateKump.htm
"In the end-Permian, as the levels of atmospheric oxygen fell and
the levels of hydrogen sulfide and carbon dioxide rose, the upper
levels of the oceans could have become rich in hydrogen sulfide
catastrophically. This would kill most of the oceanic plants and
animals. The hydrogen sulfide dispersing in the atmosphere would
kill most terrestrial life."

www.astrobio.net is a NASA web zine. See:

http://www.astrobio.net/
news/modules.php?op=
modload&name=News&
file=article&sid=672

http://www.astrobio.net/
news/modules.php?op=
modload&name=News&
file=article&sid=1535

http://www.astrobio.net/
news/article2509.html

http://astrobio.net/news/
modules.php?op=modload
&name=News&file=article
&sid=2429&mode=thread
&order=0&thold=0

These articles agree with the first 2. They all say 6 degrees C or
1000 parts per million CO2 is the extinction point.

The global warming is already 1.3 degree Farenheit. 11 degrees
Farenheit is about 6 degrees Celsius. The book "Six Degrees" by
Mark Lynas agrees. If the global warming is 6 degrees
centigrade, we humans go extinct. See:
http://www.marklynas.org/
2007/4/23/six-steps-to-hell-
summary-of-six-degrees-as-
published-in-the-guardian

"Under a Green Sky" by Peter D. Ward, Ph.D., 2007.
Paleontologist discusses mass extinctions of the past and the one
we are doing to ourselves.

ALL COAL FIRED POWER PLANTS MUST BE
CONVERTED TO NUCLEAR IMMEDIATELY TO AVOID
THE EXTINCTION OF US HUMANS. 32 countries have
nuclear power plants. Only 9 have the bomb. The top 3
producers of CO2 all have nuclear power plants, coal fired power
plants and nuclear bombs. They are the USA, China and India.
Reducing CO2 production by 90% by 2050 requires drastic action
in the USA, China and India. King Coal has to be demoted to a
commoner. Coal must be left in the earth. If you own any coal
stock, NOW is the time to dump it, regardless of loss, because it
will soon be worthless.
I have no financial connection to the nuclear power industry.

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Global Cooling-Wanna Bet?
Posted by: AsteroidMiner on Jul 11, 2008 11:19 PM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
http://www.realclimate.org/index.php?p=563
8 May 2008
RealClimate.org
Global Cooling-Wanna Bet?
Filed under: Climate Science — stefan @ 1:55 PM

By Stefan Rahmstorf, Michael Mann, Ray Bradley, William
Connolley, David Archer, and Caspar Ammann

Global cooling appears to be the “flavour of the month”. First, a
rather misguided media discussion erupted on whether global
warming had stopped, based on the observed temperatures of the
past 8 years or so (see our post). Now, an entirely new discussion
is capturing the imagination, based on a group of scientists from
Germany predicting a pause in global warming last week in the
journal Nature (Keenlyside et al. 2008).
Specifically, they make two forecasts for global temperature, as
discussed in the last paragraphs of their paper and shown in their
Figure 4 (see below). The first forecast concerns the time interval
2000-2010, while the second concerns the interval 2005-2015 (*).
For these two 10-year averages, the authors make the following
prediction:


“… the initialised prediction indicates a slight cooling relative to
1994-2004 conditions”

Their graph shows this: temperatures in the two forecast intervals
(green points shown at 2005 and 2010) are almost the same and
are both lower than observed in 1994-2004 (the end of the red line
in their graph).


Figure 4 from Keenlyside et al '08

The authors also make regional predictions, but naturally it was
this global prediction that captivated most newspaper stories
around the world (e.g. BBC News, Reuters, Bloomberg and so
on), because of its seeming contradiction with global warming.
The authors emphasise this aspect in their own media release,
which was titled: Will Global Warming Take a Short Break?

That this cooling would just be a temporary blip and would
change nothing about global warming goes without saying and has
been amply discussed elsewhere (e.g. here). But another question
has been rarely discussed: will this forecast turn out to be correct?

We think not – and we are prepared to bet serious money on this.
We have double-checked with the authors: they say they really
mean this as a serious forecast, not just as a methodological
experiment. If the authors of the paper really believe that their
forecast has a greater than 50% chance of being correct, then they
should accept our offer of a bet; it should be easy money for them.
If they do not accept our bet, then we must question how much
faith they really have in their own forecast.

The bet we propose is very simple and concerns the specific
global prediction in their Nature article. If the average temperature
2000-2010 (their first forecast) really turns out to be lower or
equal to the average temperature 1994-2004 (*), we will pay them
€ 2500. If it turns out to be warmer, they pay us € 2500. This bet
will be decided by the end of 2010. We offer the same for their
second forecast: If 2005-2015 (*) turns out to be colder or equal
compared to 1994-2004 (*), we will pay them € 2500 – if it turns
out to be warmer, they pay us the same. The basis for the
temperature comparison will be the HadCRUT3 global mean
surface temperature data set used by the authors in their paper.

...................article continues..............

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