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The Era of Catastrophe? Geologists Name New Era After Human Influence on the Planet
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1. Farewell to the Holocene
Our world, our old world that we have inhabited for the last 12,000 years, has ended, even if no newspaper in North America or Europe has yet printed its scientific obituary.
This February, while cranes were hoisting cladding to the 141st floor of the Burj Dubai tower (which will soon be twice the height of the Empire State Building), the Stratigraphy Commission of the Geological Society of London was adding the newest and highest story to the geological column. Although the idea of the "Anthropocene" -- an Earth epoch defined by the emergence of urban-industrial society as a geological force -- has been long debated, stratigraphers have refused to acknowledge compelling evidence for its advent.
At least for the London Society, that position has now been revised. This new age, they explain, is defined both by the heating trend ... and by the radical instability expected of future environments. In somber prose, they warn that "the combination of extinctions, global species migrations and the widespread replacement of natural vegetation with agricultural monocultures is producing a distinctive contemporary biostratigraphic signal. These effects are permanent, as future evolution will take place from surviving (and frequently anthropogenically relocated) stocks." Evolution itself, in other words, has been forced into a new trajectory.
2. Spontaneous Decarbonization?
The Commission's coronation of the Anthropocene coincides with growing scientific controversy over the 4th Assessment Report issued last year by the Intergovernmental Panel on Climate Change (IPCC). The IPCC is mandated to establish scientific baselines for international efforts to mitigate global warming, but some of the most prominent researchers in the field are now challenging its reference scenarios as overly optimistic, even pie-in-the-sky thinking.
The current scenarios were adopted by the IPCC in 2000 to model future global emissions based on different "storylines" about population growth as well as technological and economic development. Some of the Panel's major scenarios are well known to policymakers and greenhouse activists, but few outside the research community have actually read or understood the fine print, particularly the IPCC's confidence that greater energy efficiency will be an "automatic" byproduct of future economic development. Indeed all the scenarios, even the "business as usual" variants, assume that at least 60 percent of future carbon reduction will occur independently of greenhouse mitigation measures.
The Panel, in effect, has bet the ranch, or rather the planet, on unplanned, market-driven progress toward a post-carbon world economy, a transition that implicitly requires wealth generated from higher energy prices ultimately finding its way to new technologies and renewable energy. (The International Energy Agency recently estimated that it would cost $45 trillion to halve greenhouse gas emissions by 2050.) Kyoto-type accords and carbon markets are designed -- almost as an analogue to Keynesian "pump-priming" -- to bridge the shortfall between spontaneous decarbonization and the emissions targets required by each scenario. Serendipitously, this reduces the costs of mitigating global warming to levels that align with what seems, at least theoretically, to be politically possible, as expounded in the British Stern Review on the Economics of Climate Change of 2006 and other such reports.
Critics argue, however, that this represents a heroic leap of faith that radically understates the economic costs, technological hurdles, and social changes required to tame the growth of greenhouse gases. European carbon emissions, for example, are still rising (dramatically in some sectors) despite the European Union's much praised adoption of a cap-and-trade system in 2005. Likewise there has been little evidence in recent years of the automatic progress in energy efficiency that is the sine qua non of the IPCC scenarios. Although The Economist characteristically begs to differ, most energy researchers believe that, since 2000, energy intensity has actually risen; that is, global carbon dioxide emissions have kept pace with, or even grown marginally faster than, energy use.
Coal production, especially, is undergoing a dramatic renaissance, as the nineteenth century has returned to haunt the twenty-first century. Hundreds of thousands of miners are now working under conditions that would have appalled Charles Dickens, extracting the dirty mineral that allows China to open two new coal-fueled power stations every week. Meanwhile, the total consumption of fossil fuels is predicted to increase at least 55 percent over the next generation, with international oil exports doubling in volume.
The United Nations Development Program, which has made its own study of sustainable energy goals, warns that it will require "a 50 percent cut in greenhouse gas emissions worldwide by 2050 against 1990 levels" to keep humanity outside the red zone of runaway warming (usually defined as a greater than two degrees centigrade increase this century). Yet the International Energy Agency predicts that, in all likelihood, such emissions will actually increase in this period by nearly 100 percent -- enough greenhouse gas to propel us past several critical tipping points.
Even while higher energy prices are pushing SUVs towards extinction and attracting more venture capital to renewable energy, they are also opening the Pandora's box of the crudest of crude oil production from Canadian tar sands and Venezuelan heavy oil. As one British scientist has warned, the very last thing we should wish for (under the false slogan of "energy independence") is new frontiers in hydrocarbon production that advance "humankind's ability to accelerate global warming" and slow the urgent transition to "non-carbon or closed-carbon energy cycles."
3. Fin-du-Monde Boom
What confidence should we place in the capacity of markets to reallocate investment from old to new energy or, say, from arms expenditures to sustainable agriculture? We are propagandized incessantly (especially on public television) about how giant companies like Chevron, Pfizer Inc., and Archer Daniels Midland are hard at work saving the planet by plowing profits back into the kinds of research and exploration that will ensure low-carbon fuels, new vaccines, and more drought-resistant crops.
As the current ethanol-from-corn boom, which has diverted 100 million tons of grain from human diets mainly to American car engines, so appallingly demonstrates, "biofuel" may be a euphemism for subsidies to the rich and starvation for the poor. Likewise "clean coal," despite a vigorous endorsement from Senator Barack Obama (who also champions ethanol), is, at present, simply a huge deception: a $40 million advertising and lobbying campaign for a hypothetical technology that BusinessWeek has characterized as "being decades away from commercial viability."
Moreover there are disturbing signs that energy companies and utilities are reneging on their public commitments to the development of carbon-capture and alternative energy technologies. The Bush administration's "marquee demonstration project," FutureGen, was scrapped this year after the coal industry refused to pay its share of the public-private "partnership"; similarly, most U.S. private-sector carbon-sequestration initiatives have recently been cancelled. In the United Kingdom, meanwhile, Shell has just pulled out of the world's largest wind-energy project, the London Array. Despite heroic levels of advertising, energy corporations, like pharmaceutical companies, prefer to overgraze the commons, while letting taxes, not profits, pay for whatever urgent, long-overdue research is actually undertaken.
On the other hand, the spoils from high energy prices continue to gush into real estate, skyscrapers, and financial assets. Whether or not we are actually at the summit of Hubbert's Peak -- that peak oil moment -- whether or not the oil-price bubble finally bursts, what we are probably witnessing is the largest transfer of wealth in modern history.
An eminent Wall Street oracle, McKinsey Global Institute, predicts that if crude oil prices remain above $100 per barrel -- they are, at the moment, approaching $140 a barrel -- the six countries of the Gulf Cooperation Council alone will "reap a cumulative windfall of almost $9 trillion by 2020." As in the 1970s, Saudi Arabia and its Gulf neighbors, whose total gross domestic product has almost doubled in just three years, are awash in liquidity: $2.4 trillion in banks and investment funds according to a recent estimate by The Economist. Regardless of price trends, the International Energy Agency predicts, "more and more oil will come from fewer and fewer countries, primarily the Middle East members of OPEC [The Organization of the Petroleum Exporting Countries]."
Dubai, which has little oil income of its own, has become the regional financial hub for this vast pool of wealth, with ambitions to eventually compete with Wall Street and the City of London. During the first oil shock in the 1970s, much of OPEC's surplus was recycled through military purchases in the United States and Europe, or parked in foreign banks to become the "subprime" loans that eventually devastated Latin America. In the wake of the attacks of 9/11, the Gulf states became far more cautious about entrusting their wealth to countries, like the United States, governed by religious fanatics. This time around, they are using "sovereign wealth funds" to achieve a more active ownership in foreign financial institutions, while investing fabulous amounts of oil revenue to transform Arabia's sands into hyperbolic cities, shopping paradises, and private islands for British rock stars and Russian gangsters.
Two years ago, when oil prices were less than half of the current level, The Financial Times estimated that planned new construction in Saudi Arabia and the emirates already exceeded $1 trillion dollars. Today, it may be closer to $1.5 trillion, considerably more than the total value of world trade in agricultural products. Most of the Gulf city-states are building hallucinatory skylines -- and, among them, Dubai is the unquestionable superstar. In a little more than a decade, it has erected 500 skyscrapers, and currently leases one-quarter of all the high-rise cranes in the world.
This super-charged Gulf boom, which celebrity architect Rem Koolhaas claims is "reconfiguring the world," has led Dubai developers to proclaim the advent of a "supreme lifestyle" represented by seven-star hotels, private islands, and J-class yachts. Not surprisingly, then, the United Arab Emirates and its neighbors have the biggest per capita ecological footprints on the planet. Meanwhile, the rightful owners of Arab oil wealth, the masses crammed into the angry tenements of Baghdad, Cairo, Amman, and Khartoum, have little more to show for it than a trickle-down of oil-field jobs and Saudi-subsidized madrassas. While guests enjoy the $5,000 per night rooms in Burj Al-Arab, Dubai's celebrated sail-shaped hotel, working-class Cairenes riot in the streets over the unaffordable price of bread.
4. Can Markets Enfranchise the Poor?
Emissions optimists, of course, will smile at all the gloom-and-doom and evoke the coming miracle of carbon trading. What they discount is the real possibility that a sprawling carbon-offset market may emerge, just as predicted, yet produce only minimal improvement in the global carbon balance sheet, as long as there is no mechanism for enforcing real net reductions in fossil fuel use.
In popular discussions of emissions-rights trading systems, it is common to mistake the smokestacks for the trees. For example, the wealthy oil enclave of Abu Dhabi (like Dubai, a partner in the United Arab Emirates) brags that it has planted more than 130 million trees -- each of which does its duty in absorbing carbon dioxide from the atmosphere. However, this artificial forest in the desert also consumes huge quantities of irrigation water produced, or recycled, from expensive desalination plants. The trees may allow Sheik Ahmed bin Zayed to wear a halo at international meetings, but the rude fact is that they are an energy-intensive beauty strip, like most of so-called green capitalism.
And, while we're at it, let's just ask: What if the buying and selling of carbon credits and pollution offsets fails to turn down the thermostat? What exactly will motivate governments and global industries then to join hands in a crusade to reduce emissions through regulation and taxation?
Kyoto-type climate diplomacy assumes that all the major actors, once they have accepted the science in the IPCC reports, will recognize an overriding common interest in gaining control over the runaway greenhouse effect. But global warming is not War of the Worlds, where invading Martians are dedicated to annihilating all of humanity without distinction. Climate change, instead, will initially produce dramatically unequal impacts across regions and social classes. It will reinforce, not diminish, geopolitical inequality and conflict.
As the United Nations Development Program emphasized in its report last year, global warming is above all a threat to the poor and the unborn, the "two constituencies with little or no political voice." Coordinated global action on their behalf thus presupposes either their revolutionary empowerment (a scenario not considered by the IPCC) or the transmutation of the self-interest of rich countries and classes into an enlightened "solidarity" without precedent in history. From a rational-actor perspective, the latter outcome only seems realistic if it can be shown that privileged groups possess no preferential "exit" option, that internationalist public opinion drives policymaking in key countries, and that greenhouse gas mitigation could be achieved without major sacrifices in upscale Northern Hemispheric standards of living -- none of which seems highly likely.
And what if growing environmental and social turbulence, instead of galvanizing heroic innovation and international cooperation, simply drive elite publics into even more frenzied attempts to wall themselves off from the rest of humanity? Global mitigation, in this unexplored but not improbable scenario, would be tacitly abandoned (as, to some extent, it already has been) in favor of accelerated investment in selective adaptation for Earth's first-class passengers. We're talking here of the prospect of creating green and gated oases of permanent affluence on an otherwise stricken planet.
Of course, there will still be treaties, carbon credits, famine relief, humanitarian acrobatics, and perhaps the full-scale conversion of some European cities and small countries to alternative energy. But the shift to low, or zero, emission lifestyles would be almost unimaginably expensive. (In Britain, it currently costs $200,000 more to build a zero-carbon, "level 6" eco-home than a standard unit of the same area.) And this will certainly become even more unimaginable after perhaps 2030, when the convergent impacts of climate change, peak oil, peak water, and an additional 1.5 billion people on the planet may begin to seriously throttle growth.
5. The North's Ecological Debt
The real question is this: Will rich counties ever mobilize the political will and economic resources to actually achieve IPCC targets or, for that matter, to help poorer countries adapt to the inevitable, already "committed" quotient of warming now working its way toward us through the slow circulation of the world ocean?
To be more vivid: Will the electorates of the wealthy nations shed their current bigotry and walled borders to admit refugees from predicted epicenters of drought and desertification like the Maghreb, Mexico, Ethiopia, and Pakistan? Will Americans, the most miserly people when measured by per capita foreign aid, be willing to tax themselves to help relocate the millions likely to be flooded out of densely settled, mega-delta regions like Bangladesh?
Market-oriented optimists, once again, will point to carbon offset programs like the Clean Development Mechanism which, they claim, will allow green capital to flow to the Third World. Most of the Third World, however, probably prefers for the First World to acknowledge the environmental mess it has created and take responsibility for cleaning it up. They rightly rail against the notion that the greatest burden of adjustment to the Anthropocene epoch should fall on those who have contributed least to carbon emissions and drawn the slightest benefits from 200 years of industrialization.
In a sobering study recently published in the Proceedings of the [U.S.] National Academy of Science, a research team has attempted to calculate the environmental costs of economic globalization since 1961 as expressed in deforestation, climate change, over-fishing, ozone depletion, mangrove conversion, and agricultural expansion. After making adjustments for relative cost burdens, they found that the richest countries, by their activities, had generated 42 percent of environmental degradation across the world, while shouldering only 3 percent of the resulting costs.
The radicals of the South will rightly point to another debt as well. For 30 years, cities in the developing world have grown at breakneck speed without any equivalent public investment in infrastructure services, housing, or public health. In large part this has been the result of foreign debts contracted by dictators, payments enforced by the International Monetary Fund, and public sectors wrecked by the World Bank's "structural adjustment" agreements.
This planetary deficit of opportunity and social justice is captured in the fact that more than one billion people, according to UN-Habitat, currently live in slums and that their number is expected to double by 2030. An equal number, or more, forage in the so-called informal sector (a first-world euphemism for mass unemployment). Sheer demographic momentum, meanwhile, will increase the world's urban population by 3 billion people over the next 40 years (90 percent of them in poor cities), and no one -- absolutely no one -- has a clue how a planet of slums, with growing food and energy crises, will accommodate their biological survival, much less their inevitable aspirations to basic happiness and dignity.
If this seems unduly apocalyptic, consider that most climate models project impacts that will uncannily reinforce the present geography of inequality. One of the pioneer analysts of the economics of global warming, Petersen Institute fellow William R. Cline, recently published a country-by-country study of the likely effects of climate change on agriculture by the later decades of this century. Even in the most optimistic simulations, the agricultural systems of Pakistan (a 20 percent decrease from current farm output predicted) and Northwestern India (a 30 percent decrease) are likely to be devastated, along with much of the Middle East, the Maghreb, the Sahel belt, Southern Africa, the Caribbean, and Mexico. Twenty-nine developing countries will lose 20 percent or more of their current farm output to global warming, while agriculture in the already rich north is likely to receive, on average, an 8 percent boost.
In light of such studies, the current ruthless competition between energy and food markets, amplified by international speculation in commodities and agricultural land, is only a modest portent of the chaos that could soon grow exponentially from the convergence of resource depletion, intractable inequality, and climate change. The real danger is that human solidarity itself, like a West Antarctic ice shelf, will suddenly fracture and shatter into a thousand shards.
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Comments are closed-
Posted by: mmckinl on Aug 11, 2008 1:02 AM
Current rating: 4 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
We've got too much debt to worry about, thanks to fractional reserve banking. The remaining land and resources are needed to pay the bills.
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» RE: Great Article ... But It Won't Change a Thing ...
Posted by: CosmoViking
» Yes, but never fear, those same select few have a plan for......
Posted by: Prophit
» RE: Yes, but never fear, those same select few have a plan for......
Posted by: Prophit
» Who needs Social Security When...
Posted by: edgar1
» RE: Great Article ... Forget about global warming...
Posted by: compu
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Posted by: artie on Aug 11, 2008 1:54 AM
Current rating: 4 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Despite our best scientific accounts of the deterioration of Earth Systems, those like us (primarily in the northern tier), with access to electrical and electronic gadgetry still seem to construe climate change as merely an "environmental problem," where "environmental" is construed as a kind of "wildlife dynamic" that somehow does not subsume human existence, as a dynamic that impacts only the non-human 'world' - even in Japan this ignorance seems to be spreading: the Japanese traditional cultural view that the Earth is alive, and, therefore, like any other living creature, 'deserving' of our moral comportment, is waning.
It seems so ironic, what with the ease by which the Human is killed, that we haven't really appropriated the meaning of "the contingency of human existence." Human habitability is NOT a metaphysically necessary property of Earth. The Earth could have been otherwise, and as the Western-European-American Civilization continues to champion its Protogorean Anthropocentrism, uninhabitable Earth might actually become.
Is it naive to hope that we start to heed Earth Systems science? Let's make it not so - since the measure of that naivety measures the distance we have travelled to secure an uninhabitable Earth: extinction will become our turn.
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Posted by: HughScott on Aug 11, 2008 2:53 AM
Current rating: 4 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
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» NOTE: Please ignore the two typos, which happened at three in the morning (yawn).
Posted by: HughScott
» No worries, Hugh, there will be enough of us left.......
Posted by: Prophit
» There may NOT be nearly enough.....
Posted by: Last Chance
» Exactly, Prophit.
Posted by: HughScott
» RE: No worries, Hugh, there will be enough of us left.......
Posted by: Cybershaman
» Well, frankly, I always thought their problem was not enough women....
Posted by: Prophit
» RE: No worries, Hugh, there will be enough of us left.......
Posted by: zeek2
» RE: Absolutely chilling -- no, make that horrifing!
Posted by: JamesA
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Posted by: donnee on Aug 11, 2008 4:27 AM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Given the great divide between the Haves and the rest of us, written about so eloquently by so many here at Alternet and elsewhere, The glaring problems and the causes are clearly defined. In spite of the knowledge, I am left with even more certainty of my impotence.
When one looks at a swarm of bees, or hundreds of roaches scurrying for cover when the light goes on, do we notice the individual or just see the swarm as a disgusting threat? I believe that the few that control all the wealth and resources of this planet, and believe in their right to own and control the world, see the teeming masses of humanity that have overrun this planet in the same way, something to be eradicated.
We are the problem.
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» Not eradicate, but exploit
Posted by: Gregory Kruse
» Heck that is going on now as we speak in child labor slave factories.....
Posted by: Prophit
» RE: Heck that is going on now as we speak in child labor slave factories.....
Posted by: Cybershaman
» How Prince Phillip sees us...
Posted by: Suzon
» Who Cares?
Posted by: edgar1
» RE: How Prince Phillip sees us...
Posted by: donnee
» mexican border prisons...
Posted by: veggiegrrrl
» Prince Phillip is a life sucking parasite who lives off the labor....
Posted by: Prophit
» Change is the Rule, Not the Exception
Posted by: edgar1
» Good objective observation given that global warming is also....
Posted by: Prophit
» Instead,
Posted by: Last Chance
» Before I take offense, could you elaborate please? What Myopia?
Posted by: Prophit
» I'm sorry,
Posted by: Last Chance
» RE: What does it matter?
Posted by: Cybershaman
» Climate Change is a Tough Poltical Sell/Find A Better Symbol
Posted by: edgar1
» RE: Climate Change is a Tough Poltical Sell/Find A Better Symbol
Posted by: Cybershaman
Comments are closed-
Posted by: packofwolves on Aug 11, 2008 4:34 AM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
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» RE: Greed
Posted by: edgar1
» RE: Greed
Posted by: Cybershaman
» Greed didn't Submerge the Bridge Either
Posted by: edgar1
» RE: Greed didn't Submerge the Bridge Either
Posted by: Cybershaman
» Unlike us the rich have prepared for the coming calamity.
Posted by: Prophit
» RE: Unlike us the rich have prepared for the coming calamity.
Posted by: Floresta
» RE: Unlike us the rich have prepared for the coming calamity.
Posted by: donnee
» What I said it true. Whether you believe it or not is another ....
Posted by: Prophit
» RE: What I said it true. Whether you believe it or not is another ....
Posted by: JSurveyor
Comments are closed-
Posted by: Gregory Kruse on Aug 11, 2008 5:25 AM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
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» RE: "The Good German" (Steven Soderbergh)
Posted by: richholland
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Posted by: grmartin on Aug 11, 2008 5:31 AM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
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» RE: as expected
Posted by: EncinoM
» RE: as expected
Posted by: zipoka
» RE: as expected
Posted by: EncinoM
» RE: as expected
Posted by: zipoka
» RE: as expected
Posted by: willymack
» RE: as expected
Posted by: EncinoM
» RE: as expected
Posted by: zipoka
Comments are closed-
Posted by: BlackbirdHighway on Aug 11, 2008 5:49 AM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
No, I don't have any good ideas on how to do that, but I know that nothing positive can be accomplished as long as those folks are working every single day to convince millions of people that there isn't a problem. No, wait, it's not just that. These people are being brainwashed to vigorously interfere with any discussion. They constantly throw out the most outlandish lies and millions of people believe and echo those lies any time the subject comes up.
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» The gulag resurfaces
Posted by: edgar1
» RE: The gulag resurfaces
Posted by: Cherenkovrad
» RE: The gulag resurfaces
Posted by: Cybershaman
» RE: The gulag resurfaces
Posted by: Cybershaman
» RE: Step 1
Posted by: Last Chance
» RE: Step 1
Posted by: willymack
» Connecticut
Posted by: Tom Tele
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Posted by: jebpgh on Aug 11, 2008 6:02 AM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Mind you, I think that we need urgent education but my worry is that core values among the wealthiest could take a very ugly turn.
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» The Choice
Posted by: edgar1
» RE: The Choice
Posted by: Last Chance
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Posted by: HANGTRAITORS on Aug 11, 2008 6:41 AM
Current rating: Not yet rated [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
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» Not at all, nothing of the kind --
Posted by: Last Chance
» RE: Not at all, nothing of the kind --
Posted by: HANGTRAITORS
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Posted by: Last Chance on Aug 11, 2008 6:44 AM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
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» If you keep supporting bad government and cowards, you'll be trapped on neo-Malthusian bullshit.
Posted by: maxpayne
» You presume too much !!!
Posted by: Last Chance
» And what's your solution? RACIST neo-Malthusian BULLSHIT ?
Posted by: maxpayne
» Not So
Posted by: edgar1
» RE: Not So
Posted by: Cybershaman
» Open Borders to Climate Refugees? I don't think so.
Posted by: edgar1
» RE: Ummmm....
Posted by: Cybershaman
» WEll, its been in the papers enough about all the work the CDC, .....
Posted by: Prophit
» Con't from prev post: WEll, its been in the papers enough about all the work the CDC, .....
Posted by: Prophit
» RE: What a bizarre notion
Posted by: HANGTRAITORS
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Posted by: maxpayne on Aug 11, 2008 6:53 AM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
And while we're at it, it's high time America repaired the SEVERELY LANGUISHED infrastructure of the public water and transportation systems. Much as I hate to drive to work or even see others doing bottled water like never before and in greater frequencies day after day, these are obvious glaring symptoms that it's time to stand up for your tax dollars and stop electing pols that divert money to tax cuts for the wealthy and wars for oil all the while allowing the country's crucial infrastructure to languish.
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» It's way beyond Reagan economics --
Posted by: Last Chance
» There you go again thinking that big government will save you. That was gone in 1980.
Posted by: maxpayne
» There YOU go again --
Posted by: Last Chance
» RE: There YOU go again -- racist neo-Malthusian BULLSHITTER !
Posted by: maxpayne
» RE: your population maximalism is pointless!
Posted by: Tom Tele
» I may not be a biologist but neither am I a doom-and-gloom racist neo-Malthusian bullshitter
Posted by: maxpayne
» Why racist?
Posted by: truthlover
» Do a full research on Malthus first and quit making a mountain out of a mole hill ! Geesh !
Posted by: maxpayne
» full research unnecessary, it's simple mathematics
Posted by: truthlover
» Precious Hemp! The Tree of Life!
Posted by: garry minor
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Posted by: JoshuaLudd on Aug 11, 2008 7:21 AM
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Posted by: opmoc on Aug 11, 2008 8:13 AM
Current rating: 2 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
No one is disputing that the World is facing massive problems - but we need to determine what the problems and causes are by objective science - not religious and political faith based dogma.
Extracts from Dr David Evans a consultant to the Australian Greenhouse Office from 1999 to 2005 who spent six years on carbon accounting, building models for the Australian Greenhouse Office.
full text
"There is no evidence to support the idea that carbon emissions cause significant global warming. None. There is plenty of evidence that global warming has occurred, and theory suggests that carbon emissions should raise temperatures (though by how much is hotly disputed) but there are no observations by anyone that implicate carbon emissions as a significant cause of the recent global warming."
"The satellites that measure the world's temperature all say that the warming trend ended in 2001, and that the temperature has dropped about 0.6C in the past year (to the temperature of 1980). Land-based temperature readings are corrupted by the "urban heat island" effect: urban areas encroaching on thermometer stations warm the micro-climate around the thermometer, due to vegetation changes, concrete, cars, houses. Satellite data is the only temperature data we can trust, but it only goes back to 1979. NASA reports only land-based data, and reports a modest warming trend and recent cooling. The other three global temperature records use a mix of satellite and land measurements, or satellite only, and they all show no warming since 2001 and a recent cooling."
"So far that debate has just consisted of a simple sleight of hand: show evidence of global warming, and while the audience is stunned at the implications, simply assert that it is due to carbon emissions.
In the minds of the audience, the evidence that global warming has occurred becomes conflated with the alleged cause, and the audience hasn't noticed that the cause was merely asserted, not proved.
If there really was any evidence that carbon emissions caused global warming, don't you think we would have heard all about it ad nauseam by now?
The world has spent $50 billion on global warming since 1990, and we have not found any actual evidence that carbon emissions cause global warming. Evidence consists of observations made by someone at some time that supports the idea that carbon emissions cause global warming. Computer models and theoretical calculations are not evidence, they are just theory."
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» RE: $50BN spent on Global Warming since 1990. YET NO EVIDENCE FOUND That CO2 is The Cause
Posted by: richholland
» RE: $50BN spent on Global Warming since 1990. YET NO EVIDENCE FOUND That CO2 is The Cause
Posted by: opmoc
» Uhm.. since when...
Posted by: JoshuaLudd
» Read "Eco-Imperialism: Green Power, Black Death" by Paul Driessen
Posted by: opmoc
» Driessen is an energy lobbyist, right wing propagandist
Posted by: PaulC
» Cooling is as likely as warming since the Earth never stays constant.
Posted by: edgar1
» Nothing you say, edgar1, is supported by actual science.
Posted by: PaulC
» Greenhouse effect=less heat radiated into space
Posted by: leafsong1
» RE: Greenhouse effect=less heat radiated into space
Posted by: opmoc
» RE: Greenhouse effect=less heat radiated into space
Posted by: Cherenkovrad
» "Could you be any more ignorant?" Typical response from a religious lunatic who hasn't been educated
Posted by: opmoc
» Atheist Mocks Scientifically Illiterate: Has Great Fun
Posted by: Cherenkovrad
» Cherenkovrad Buy Yourself a Rubic Cube Each Day For The Next Week
Posted by: opmoc
» CO2 not a pollutant?
Posted by: Tom Tele
» RE: CO2 not a pollutant?
Posted by: opmoc
» Global Warming is not a bulk effect, it is a change in equilibrium - a change at the margins
Posted by: PaulC
» RE: $50BN spent on Global Warming since 1990. YET NO EVIDENCE FOUND That CO2 is The Cause
Posted by: zipoka
» My God, A Practical Approach! Call the Thought Police!
Posted by: edgar1
» This is flat-out a bunch of lies and propaganda.
Posted by: PaulC
Comments are closed-
Posted by: richholland on Aug 11, 2008 8:14 AM
Current rating: 3 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
2. as servants they get mexicans or phillipins if the Rich and Beautifull live in Dubai.
3. some middle class and skilled workers are usefull so they might survive.
4. lame old sick retarded overweighted etc.
who cares????
Learn your kids to escape , not by survival kits
usefull in the woods( 80 % of us lives in a city!!) but by building up a network
to protect yourself.
learn to enjoy things like family and friendship, repair things instead of chinese slaveproducts.
Do not forget; if the traditional parties; Democrats and Reps loose jobs because you vote independent or GREEn. They will change, they will change only if it costs them money..
Buy second hand and prizes go down...
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» I could be wrong, but are you saying "vote as you always have....
Posted by: Prophit
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Posted by: jeffrey7 on Aug 11, 2008 8:21 AM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
For being the most superior lifeform (what a joke) on the planet, why do we devise the means for our own distruction and be stupid enough to use it? If we are so smart why do we live so out of balance with the natural world?
The answer is really quite simple. We changed what we put our faith in. We used to have faith that if we took care of our planet it would take care of us. Because of that we had a strong connection to all life. The change in faith came when we started making things beyond what we actually needed for daily living. I-pods,I-phones, huge energy sucking cities,great machines of all types,rockets into space and endless chunks of metal floating around the planet beaming us with God know's what. So until we change where we put of faith,we will be condemed to repeat the evolutionary march all over again becuase we will have killed ourselves with the inventions that we put so much faith in.
Jeffrey7 for Prez '08
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Posted by: LB_AIA on Aug 11, 2008 8:30 AM
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» RE: Made our non-choice 3 decades ago
Posted by: edgar1
» RE: Made our non-choice 3 decades ago
Posted by: Cherenkovrad
» Small self-sufficient communities the way to go ideally, but..
Posted by: edgar1
» RE: Small self-sufficient communities the way to go ideally, but..
Posted by: Cybershaman
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Posted by: PaulK on Aug 11, 2008 8:42 AM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Both the Arctic permafrost and the methane clatrates on the Arctic Ocean's continental shelves are currently around the melting point of water, just as an actively melting ice cube is at this melting point. Large methane releases were measured in the atmosphere over Siberia last year, and this year is no different.
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» It Is Normal For Arctic Ice To Melt. The Sun Shines 24x7 in Summer
Posted by: opmoc
» Yeah, that's why the arctic has always been...
Posted by: leafsong1
» RE: Yeah, that's why the arctic has always been...
Posted by: opmoc
» Scientifically Illiterate Man Counts All the Polar Bears from His Armchair
Posted by: Cherenkovrad
» I'm Not Worried About Polar Bears But Hot Air From Gore
Posted by: edgar1
» What is your scientific background edgar1? You sound as poorly informed as opmoc.
Posted by: PaulC
» RE: Yeah, that's why the arctic has always been...
Posted by: Tom Tele
» RE: Yeah, that's why the arctic has always been...
Posted by: opmoc
» RE: Yeah, that's why the arctic has always been...
Posted by: edgar1
» RE: Yeah, that's why the arctic has always been...
Posted by: Cybershaman
» RE: Mike, you missed the decarbonization of 10 trillion tons of methane
Posted by: Cybershaman
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Posted by: GreyFoxThree on Aug 11, 2008 8:48 AM
Current rating: 1 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
JT
Ultimate Anonymity
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Posted by: deccles on Aug 11, 2008 10:04 AM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Reducing pollutions and emissions 50% by 2050 makes the gross assumption that the human population of earth will have enough oil, natural gas, coal, and other fossil fuels to last that long. This assumption shows the IPCC to be wholly ignorant of the fact (whether by political influence or stupidity) the world is already in terminal decline of fossil fuels, and will run out long before 2050 (our best hope is 35 years of remaining usable supplies).
This pie-in-the-sky assessment will be our undoing, because every new technology for reducing emmissions requires an underlying dependence on petroleum products, including nuclear.
The basic laws of physics dictate that you can't get something from nothing (e.g. creating hydrogen from wind).
My suggestion to you all is to buy and read the book "The Long Emergency", by James Howard Kuntsler. The sooner you get it and read it, the sooner you can start preparing for the inevitable decline of human civilization as we know it.
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» RE: Whilst I Have No Respect For The IPCC - You Make An Even Bigger Miscalculation
Posted by: Cherenkovrad
» RE: We Are Swimming in Oil - And Your Maths Could Be Corrected By an 11 Year Old
Posted by: Cherenkovrad
» Cherenkovrad - thanks for taking on this nonsense...
Posted by: PaulC
» Atheist Mocks Scientifically Illiterate
Posted by: Cherenkovrad
» Cherenkovrad Buy Yourself a Rubic Cube Each Day For The Next Week
Posted by: opmoc
» Explain yourself, below
Posted by: bingahaba
» RE: The IPCC Makes Major Miscalculation
Posted by: Fat Man at the Buffet Line
» Do What We Can
Posted by: edgar1
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Posted by: jwverez on Aug 11, 2008 10:36 AM
Current rating: 3 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
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» RE: Oh great, more BIG GOVERNMENT NANNYING on the way? Let's just get it over with !!
Posted by: Cherenkovrad
» RE: Oh great, more BIG GOVERNMENT NANNYING on the way? Let's just get it over with !!
Posted by: zipoka
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Posted by: Fat Man at the Buffet Line on Aug 11, 2008 10:42 AM
Current rating: 3 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
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Posted by: chorton on Aug 11, 2008 10:47 AM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
The most serious omission from Davis' "standard model" of global catastrophe is that the billions of people who share this planet and its fate are sentient beings, capable of imagining the past and visualizing alternative futures, and increasingly capable of reading and understanding what the scientists are saying.
As we try to picture what can happen, we must consider what the people in their billions might do, not just as victims, "ignorant armies [that] clash by night", but increasingly as conscious actors, able to see their own individual crises as part of a global picture, able analyze the situation and picture the consequences of their actions. And able to see the possibility that by acting together they might gain control and change the outcome. Then we need to make a mental shift, and include ourselves among them. The question then becomes “what will *we* do”? For it is a fantasy to imagine that we, most of the readers of this article, are among the masters of the Empire, those who get to choose its direction, and the evidence thus far is that those masters are unable or unwilling to heed us.
We are like passengers on a ship that is headed toward the rocks. Our fellow passengers are the welders and toilet-cleaners of Dubai, the rice-farmers and garment-workers of Bangladesh, the machine builders and prostitutes of Sao Paulo. And also the WalMart clerks and school teachers of Tulsa, the migrant chicken-packers and the children selling nickel bags on the street corners of Nashville, the guards and the prisoners of San Quentin. Like Walter Mitty, we fantasize, as do they all, about what we would do if we were captain, and we despair when we remember that we are not and see that he won't listen.
So what will the billions do when they – we - fully comprehend our situation? When we understand that we’re all in the same boat, and that only by acting together to get control of the ship can we generate a future for ourselves and for our children and our great-grandchildren? The answer is not written. Science can go only so far in forecasting what will happen, because so much of the current situation is unprecedented. For example, we can learn from the ecological and social collapse of earlier societies such as the Maya, and try to use those as models, but part of what makes our situation unique is that our toilet-cleaner in Dubai is very possibly listening and pondering their fate! Moreover, much of our science of what people do and why is “tobacco science”, paid for by those who want to keep control and preserve the status quo, those who want to disempower us.
Science must go beyond what Davis is presenting. It must include in its models the possibility that forklift operators in Caracas, coffee-pickers in Kenya and file-clerks in Chicago will fully comprehend the situation and act together to change outcomes. Such a science will empower us to think globally and to reject temptations and inducements to despair or to blame each other.
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Posted by: mnstra on Aug 11, 2008 10:56 AM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
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Posted by: Cherenkovrad on Aug 11, 2008 11:00 AM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Of course, we could come together with the specific idea of "powering down," as Richard Heinberg puts it, by assuming that we will end up at a certain technological level when the carbon bonanza has been depleted and shoot for that level now while energy is relatively cheap.
Will we do that? Of course not. As long as propagandists and their cheerleaders and protectors spew misinformation in order to promote false hope, we are screwed. You see, as long as Becky and Joe Consumer believe that the technology fairy will save their fat butts, they will kick and scream and monkey wrench any process that threatens their glorious future of fast food and NASCAR.
So, what to do? Since the majority of the population in the Western world takes to heart Cheney's dictum that "The Western way of life is non-negotiable," we will be unable to plan in any sensible fashion, at least with the majority as willing partners. It seems that the only rational process would to ignore the government and its consumers and go about the process of building small self-sufficient communities that could act as templates and knowledge repositories available to the post-collapse millions.
Granted, these "lifeboats," as many call them, may be overrun by hordes from the city, but the more we build the more likely it is that some sort of sustainable civilization will be left to sort through the ashes.
My guess is, should there be any response to this missive, that that response will be dismissive because that is the precise disease we face.
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» RE: Nature Bats Last
Posted by: bluebirdella
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Posted by: TJColatrella on Aug 11, 2008 11:09 AM
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» RE: The Exxonocene Era...!
Posted by: edgar_michel
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Posted by: eochiai on Aug 11, 2008 11:43 AM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
To correct this trend, it may need a complete overhaul of the major value (belief) systems. For example, the population. Most cultures and religions are bent on procreation, because those cultures and religious beliefs were developed in the era when human lives were difficult to sustain, and hence more children were desirable. Now Homo sapiens (at least in some countries) has developed the social, economic, and medical systems that can maintain human lives fairly long, and yet, the cultural and religious beliefs remain the same as old. Now that Homo sapiens has increased its number of individuals and consumes enormous amount of energy and resources to almost overwhelm the planet capacity, the old belief systems may need be reevaluated.
One important new ethics to be developed is “self-restraint”. Before the industrial revolution provided more than enough material, people were careful not to over-consume. This was typically manifested in the Edo period of Japan (1600-1868). They sustained their high population density (about twice that of the current world average) and vibrant culture based on only renewable resources and solar energy. One of the reasons they managed to do so was the people’s attitude: “self-restraint”. Unfortunately, many of the other value systems including the three major religions emerged in the Middle East and even communism encourage attainment of “desires”. It is deemed to be a “virtue”. Hardest to change is people’s ethical, value system.
Next, the economic system needs to be overhauled. The current system is “corporatocracy”. The corporations have gained their perpetual existence and dominance in the economic system by manipulating the political and legal systems. They are human creation by laws, and their authorities can theoretically be challenged and be subsumed under popular control, if enough realization and enough muscle to challenge can be mustered. It has to be.
There are many other issues, all difficult to deal with. But solutions must be found and implemented. Otherwise human civilization will not be here in the not-too distant future. All human wisdom needs to be focused on these issues and solutions.
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» Some of us are trying to put forth solutions but the doom-and-gloom dumbfuck zombies won't listen !
Posted by: maxpayne
» RE: Some of us are trying to put forth solutions but the doom-and-gloom dumbfuck zombies won't listen !
Posted by: Dboy
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Posted by: opmoc on Aug 11, 2008 11:47 AM
Current rating: 2 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
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Posted by: Cherenkovrad on Aug 11, 2008 12:07 PM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Y2K was a non-event precisely because computer programmers put in thousands upon thousands of overtime hours rewriting code. Had they had the typical attitude about Y2K we see now, all hell would have broken loose. The sad thing is those people who constantly bring up Y2K as a non-event would have been at the forefront of the wailing, crying, and general whining had those programmers not done the excellent job they did.
That being said, comparing the current situation to Y2K is like comparing leaky water wings in a swimming pool to the Titanic.
Just because there was a techno-fix for the Y2K bug doesn't mean that there will be a techno-fix for the current set of problems.
Faulty thinking is part of the problem. STOP IT. Perhaps a nice college course on critical thinking skills would be in order?
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» RE: Are there any survivors from the Katrina disaster?
Posted by: opmoc
» RE: Are there any survivors from the Katrina disaster?
Posted by: Tom Tele
» RE: Are there any survivors from the Katrina disaster?
Posted by: Cherenkovrad
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Posted by: Cherenkovrad on Aug 11, 2008 12:35 PM
Current rating: Not yet rated [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
But they will be successful because most people are not schooled enough to pick apart their arguments. In fact, the common people love these illiterates because they always promise more of the same, that the party will go on and on.
It reminds me of the wonderful story about the electrician who thought he could disprove Einstein's theory of relativity. Because he was a friend of a radio producer, he participated in a radio show where this man was allowed to debate a physicist. From the beginning of the debate, it was clear that the electrician was clueless. He could not understand why the physicist kept insisting on a uniformity of mathematical language. He could not understand even the most basic tenets of physics, yet he persisted for quite some time. Though the physicist tried and tried, he could not convince the electrician of his errors. When the electrician left, the physicist, a bit put off by the amateur, said, "We get hundreds of letters every year from people claiming to have debunked Einstein's theory. Not one of them could pass a basic physics class." It would be painfully funny except for the fact that so many people stick their noses into scientific arguments without a clue as to what they are doing. They don't even know that thousands upon thousands of real scientists are laughing at them. And, even more sad, they would not care, would not change one tiny bit of their crackpot theories for anything in the world.
So, the climate change deniers continue blogging away, spewing hysterically funny theories, hopelessly showing themselves to be terrific clowns, while still thinking themselves serious participants in the discussion.
Sorry, but a media outlet is not a peer-reviewed scientific journal. Get your ideas published, then start blogging. Or, even better, look at all the peer-reviewed papers that acknowledge the existence of human caused global climate change and count them up, then count up the peer-reviewed dissenting papers. Bring that count to the blog, if you dare.
Meanwhile, no more pocky for kitty. The science illiterates can expect plenty of ridicule, but only for so long. Even teasing those who wish the death of the planet can get boring.
Auf wiedersehen.
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» I'm An Atheist and A Climate Skeptic
Posted by: edgar1
» RE: You're A Climate Skeptic???
Posted by: fearn
» Freeman Dyson
Posted by: edgar1
» Filled to the Brim
Posted by: LeaderofMen
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Posted by: Anthhh on Aug 11, 2008 1:29 PM
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Posted by: PaulK on Aug 11, 2008 1:36 PM
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» RE: It's August 11th,
Posted by: edgar1
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Posted by: Shakti on Aug 11, 2008 1:44 PM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
But merely amplifying the fear, as this article does, is not helpful. Many creative, courageous, ingenious people are coming up with all kinds of solutions and answers. Take a look at the 11th Hour (www.11thhour.com) or read Suzuki's The Sacred Balance, or learn about John Todd's Living Machines, or log onto the Bioneers website (www.bioneers.org), or give some money to an international relief organization (e.g., Mercy Corps) or just go inflate your tires and insulate your house.
Do something positive that takes us in a good direction. Start building a better world in your little corner of the universe.
Above all, don't give in to fear. Fear shuts us down and makes us isolated. Right now, we need to connect: with one another, with nature, with ourselves.
"A human being is a part of the whole, called by us the ‘universe’, a part limited in time and space. He experiences himself, his thoughts and feelings as something separate from the rest – a kind of optical illusion of his consciousness. This delusion is a kind of prison for us, restricting us to our personal desires and to affection for a few persons nearest to us. Our task must be to free ourselves from the prison by widening our circle of compassion to embrace all living creatures and the whole of nature in its beauty. Nobody is able to achieve this completely, but the striving for such achievement is in itself a part of the liberation and a foundation for inner security." - Albert Einstein, quoted in the New York Post, November 28, 1972.
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» RE: plenty Room for Gloom and Doom
Posted by: Tom Tele
» RE: plenty Room for Gloom and Doom
Posted by: opmoc
» RE: plenty Room for Gloom and Doom
Posted by: Cherenkovrad
» opmoc simply makes things up
Posted by: PaulC
» I think he left the thread before you arrived
Posted by: bingahaba
» Thanks. Yeah, I arrived here a bit late
Posted by: PaulC
» Corporate shills, anti-troll tactics etc
Posted by: bingahaba
» I found Duesberg, will pour gravy ;)
Posted by: bingahaba
» Thanks for the offer regarding your blog idea
Posted by: PaulC
» Some more ideas
Posted by: bingahaba
» Yes, I think those are good ideas
Posted by: PaulC
» Amen. It's time to shut the doom-and-gloom machine down and get crackin'
Posted by: maxpayne
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Posted by: toddcory on Aug 11, 2008 3:11 PM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Todd
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» Everything is now.
Posted by: Cherenkovrad
» RE: evolve or die
Posted by: Dboy
» RE: Adapt ... Adapt ... or you will be entrapped!
Posted by: Cybershaman
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Posted by: snideelf on Aug 11, 2008 3:52 PM
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A slow process that Man can avoid, but refuses out of sheer ignorance to do anything about.
The Planet has no feeling whatsoever.
It will just go through the necessary cycles to rid itself of the human blight.
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» Planet Earth isn't doing anything. People aren't either that's the problem.
Posted by: common intelligence
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Posted by: sirios on Aug 11, 2008 3:53 PM
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Posted by: snideelf on Aug 11, 2008 4:43 PM
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Posted by: common intelligence on Aug 11, 2008 5:35 PM
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Old habits are hard to break. For the masses that breeded like lemmings, well keep running toward the cliff.
Those still causualists, queitly continuing by ignoring the truth, you just keep putting up those Christmas lights and watering your lawns and going on looky loo vacations to piss the last years of your lives away.
OR
You could plant a garden or some trees and relish that which could be your sacred mother earth. Praise her and take care of her.
Now that would be a fulfilling way to vacation.
The souveniers you'd get in return will fill you lives with joy longer than a throw away plastic trinket.
Life is really simple to enjoy without using all kinds of resourses meandering around looking for the Holy Grail.
The poles can't be stopped from melting at this point. But humans wasting resourses can be. From fuel to excessive eating habits and clothing you don't need. The materialistic consumer mentality must be curbed. LUn learn bad habits by replacing them with good ones.
Learn to sit, be quiet, and watch your mind. Learn to recognize and contol yourselves from wasting you precious breath babbbling with out reason.
Stop participating in the (American) dream. Awaken and face the reality of your true natue. Then the answer will be revealed un to you.
(Otherwise keep hoping that Jesus will safe you from your stupidity. IT ain't going to happen.)
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Posted by: common intelligence on Aug 11, 2008 5:39 PM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Old habits are hard to break. For the masses that breeded like lemmings, well keep running toward the cliff.
Those still causualists, queitly continuing by ignoring the truth, you just keep putting up those Christmas lights and watering your lawns and going on looky loo vacations to piss the last years of your lives away.
OR
You could plant a garden or some trees and relish that which could be your sacred mother earth. Praise her and take care of her.
Now that would be a fulfilling way to vacation.
The souveniers you'd get in return will fill you lives with joy longer than a throw away plastic trinket.
Life is really simple to enjoy without using all kinds of resourses meandering around looking for the Holy Grail.
The poles can't be stopped from melting at this point. But humans wasting resourses can be. From fuel to excessive eating habits and clothing you don't need. The materialistic consumer mentality must be curbed. Unlearn bad habits by replacing them with good ones.
Learn to sit, be quiet, and watch your mind. Learn to recognize and contol yourselves from wasting you precious breath babbbling with out reason.
Stop participating in the (American) dream. Awaken and face the reality of your true natue. Then the answer will be revealed un to you.
(Otherwise keep hoping that Jesus will safe you from your stupidity. IT ain't going to happen.)
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Posted by: disgusted on Aug 11, 2008 7:03 PM
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Posted by: blogbooks on Aug 11, 2008 7:35 PM
Current rating: 3 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Because the pigs that run the system have no interest in providing anything for you that you don't earn 10 times over through your blood, sweat, and tears.
When the "system" finally fails and billions starve to death or die fighting pointlessly bloody wars the people to blame will get away with it yet again.
It's so beautiful that the wealthy are walled and isolated behind so many layers of protection that the idiot masses, even the somewhat informed idiot masses on Alternet, do not dare place the blame on them. No, it's always the "corporations" or "the system."
Sheep. Looks like the rich will be eating mutton chops for a few years while the rest of us starve to death in the streets.
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» RE: The best part is that they've convinced you it's systemic, rather than planned, failure
Posted by: HANGTRAITORS
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Posted by: bingahaba on Aug 11, 2008 7:58 PM
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opmoc: Could you state clearly your objection to Cherenkovrad's volume calculation? In your rubic cube example, the volume grows linearly with time, i.e. at the volume of 1 rubic cube at a time.
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» RE: To opmoc, Cherenkovrad
Posted by: opmoc
» re Reisman
Posted by: bingahaba
» correction
Posted by: bingahaba
» Total oil and crust at 85 million barrels / day
Posted by: bingahaba
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Posted by: govindas on Aug 11, 2008 9:16 PM
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http://workingvillages.org
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Posted by: Ignatz deFyre on Aug 12, 2008 10:59 AM
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» RE: We are entering the WholeObscene Era.
Posted by: Sardaukar
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Posted by: BlueBerry PickN on Aug 12, 2008 12:14 PM
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Oceanic Trash Maelstrom: "Trashed: Across the Pacific Ocean".
water, water everywhere... but not a drop to drink...
┄┄┄┄┄┄┄┄┄┄┄┄┄┄┄┄┄┄┄
BlueBerry Pick'n
can be found @
ThisCanadian
┄┄
"We, ... tolerance of intolerance is cowardice..." ~ Ayaan Hirsi Ali.
"We, two, form a Multitude" ~ Ovid.
┄┄
"Silent Freedom is Freedom Silenced"
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» Sorry, 90% of the U.S. is Christian. They don't care about the Earth, they're going to heaven!
Posted by: blogbooks
» you might enjoy this documentary, then...
Posted by: BlueBerry PickN
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Posted by: gsmiley on Aug 13, 2008 7:55 PM
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Posted by: scienceisnotconsensus on Aug 14, 2008 8:02 AM
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wake up
http://climatesci.org
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» What is this link? Is it a virus? Who is this poster? People, use some discretion regarding links
Posted by: PaulC
» RE: What is this link? Is it a virus? Who is this poster? People, use some discretion regarding links
Posted by: scienceisnotconsensus
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Posted by: uncleeddie on Aug 15, 2008 2:47 PM
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Posted by: zenfindel on Aug 17, 2008 5:51 PM
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Posted by: mmckinl on Aug 11, 2008 1:02 AM
Current rating: 4 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
We've got too much debt to worry about, thanks to fractional reserve banking. The remaining land and resources are needed to pay the bills.
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» RE: Great Article ... But It Won't Change a Thing ...
Posted by: CosmoViking
» Yes, but never fear, those same select few have a plan for......
Posted by: Prophit
» RE: Yes, but never fear, those same select few have a plan for......
Posted by: Prophit
» Who needs Social Security When...
Posted by: edgar1
» RE: Great Article ... Forget about global warming...
Posted by: compu
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Posted by: artie on Aug 11, 2008 1:54 AM
Current rating: 4 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Despite our best scientific accounts of the deterioration of Earth Systems, those like us (primarily in the northern tier), with access to electrical and electronic gadgetry still seem to construe climate change as merely an "environmental problem," where "environmental" is construed as a kind of "wildlife dynamic" that somehow does not subsume human existence, as a dynamic that impacts only the non-human 'world' - even in Japan this ignorance seems to be spreading: the Japanese traditional cultural view that the Earth is alive, and, therefore, like any other living creature, 'deserving' of our moral comportment, is waning.
It seems so ironic, what with the ease by which the Human is killed, that we haven't really appropriated the meaning of "the contingency of human existence." Human habitability is NOT a metaphysically necessary property of Earth. The Earth could have been otherwise, and as the Western-European-American Civilization continues to champion its Protogorean Anthropocentrism, uninhabitable Earth might actually become.
Is it naive to hope that we start to heed Earth Systems science? Let's make it not so - since the measure of that naivety measures the distance we have travelled to secure an uninhabitable Earth: extinction will become our turn.
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Posted by: HughScott on Aug 11, 2008 2:53 AM
Current rating: 4 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
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» NOTE: Please ignore the two typos, which happened at three in the morning (yawn).
Posted by: HughScott
» No worries, Hugh, there will be enough of us left.......
Posted by: Prophit
» There may NOT be nearly enough.....
Posted by: Last Chance
» Exactly, Prophit.
Posted by: HughScott
» RE: No worries, Hugh, there will be enough of us left.......
Posted by: Cybershaman
» Well, frankly, I always thought their problem was not enough women....
Posted by: Prophit
» RE: No worries, Hugh, there will be enough of us left.......
Posted by: zeek2
» RE: Absolutely chilling -- no, make that horrifing!
Posted by: JamesA
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Posted by: donnee on Aug 11, 2008 4:27 AM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Given the great divide between the Haves and the rest of us, written about so eloquently by so many here at Alternet and elsewhere, The glaring problems and the causes are clearly defined. In spite of the knowledge, I am left with even more certainty of my impotence.
When one looks at a swarm of bees, or hundreds of roaches scurrying for cover when the light goes on, do we notice the individual or just see the swarm as a disgusting threat? I believe that the few that control all the wealth and resources of this planet, and believe in their right to own and control the world, see the teeming masses of humanity that have overrun this planet in the same way, something to be eradicated.
We are the problem.
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» Not eradicate, but exploit
Posted by: Gregory Kruse
» Heck that is going on now as we speak in child labor slave factories.....
Posted by: Prophit
» RE: Heck that is going on now as we speak in child labor slave factories.....
Posted by: Cybershaman
» How Prince Phillip sees us...
Posted by: Suzon
» Who Cares?
Posted by: edgar1
» RE: How Prince Phillip sees us...
Posted by: donnee
» mexican border prisons...
Posted by: veggiegrrrl
» Prince Phillip is a life sucking parasite who lives off the labor....
Posted by: Prophit
» Change is the Rule, Not the Exception
Posted by: edgar1
» Good objective observation given that global warming is also....
Posted by: Prophit
» Instead,
Posted by: Last Chance
» Before I take offense, could you elaborate please? What Myopia?
Posted by: Prophit
» I'm sorry,
Posted by: Last Chance
» RE: What does it matter?
Posted by: Cybershaman
» Climate Change is a Tough Poltical Sell/Find A Better Symbol
Posted by: edgar1
» RE: Climate Change is a Tough Poltical Sell/Find A Better Symbol
Posted by: Cybershaman
Comments are closed-
Posted by: packofwolves on Aug 11, 2008 4:34 AM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
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» RE: Greed
Posted by: edgar1
» RE: Greed
Posted by: Cybershaman
» Greed didn't Submerge the Bridge Either
Posted by: edgar1
» RE: Greed didn't Submerge the Bridge Either
Posted by: Cybershaman
» Unlike us the rich have prepared for the coming calamity.
Posted by: Prophit
» RE: Unlike us the rich have prepared for the coming calamity.
Posted by: Floresta
» RE: Unlike us the rich have prepared for the coming calamity.
Posted by: donnee
» What I said it true. Whether you believe it or not is another ....
Posted by: Prophit
» RE: What I said it true. Whether you believe it or not is another ....
Posted by: JSurveyor
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Posted by: Gregory Kruse on Aug 11, 2008 5:25 AM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
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» RE: "The Good German" (Steven Soderbergh)
Posted by: richholland
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Posted by: grmartin on Aug 11, 2008 5:31 AM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
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» RE: as expected
Posted by: EncinoM
» RE: as expected
Posted by: zipoka
» RE: as expected
Posted by: EncinoM
» RE: as expected
Posted by: zipoka
» RE: as expected
Posted by: willymack
» RE: as expected
Posted by: EncinoM
» RE: as expected
Posted by: zipoka
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Posted by: BlackbirdHighway on Aug 11, 2008 5:49 AM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
No, I don't have any good ideas on how to do that, but I know that nothing positive can be accomplished as long as those folks are working every single day to convince millions of people that there isn't a problem. No, wait, it's not just that. These people are being brainwashed to vigorously interfere with any discussion. They constantly throw out the most outlandish lies and millions of people believe and echo those lies any time the subject comes up.
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» The gulag resurfaces
Posted by: edgar1
» RE: The gulag resurfaces
Posted by: Cherenkovrad
» RE: The gulag resurfaces
Posted by: Cybershaman
» RE: The gulag resurfaces
Posted by: Cybershaman
» RE: Step 1
Posted by: Last Chance
» RE: Step 1
Posted by: willymack
» Connecticut
Posted by: Tom Tele
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Posted by: jebpgh on Aug 11, 2008 6:02 AM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Mind you, I think that we need urgent education but my worry is that core values among the wealthiest could take a very ugly turn.
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» The Choice
Posted by: edgar1
» RE: The Choice
Posted by: Last Chance
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Posted by: HANGTRAITORS on Aug 11, 2008 6:41 AM
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» Not at all, nothing of the kind --
Posted by: Last Chance
» RE: Not at all, nothing of the kind --
Posted by: HANGTRAITORS
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Posted by: Last Chance on Aug 11, 2008 6:44 AM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
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» If you keep supporting bad government and cowards, you'll be trapped on neo-Malthusian bullshit.
Posted by: maxpayne
» You presume too much !!!
Posted by: Last Chance
» And what's your solution? RACIST neo-Malthusian BULLSHIT ?
Posted by: maxpayne
» Not So
Posted by: edgar1
» RE: Not So
Posted by: Cybershaman
» Open Borders to Climate Refugees? I don't think so.
Posted by: edgar1
» RE: Ummmm....
Posted by: Cybershaman
» WEll, its been in the papers enough about all the work the CDC, .....
Posted by: Prophit
» Con't from prev post: WEll, its been in the papers enough about all the work the CDC, .....
Posted by: Prophit
» RE: What a bizarre notion
Posted by: HANGTRAITORS
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Posted by: maxpayne on Aug 11, 2008 6:53 AM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
And while we're at it, it's high time America repaired the SEVERELY LANGUISHED infrastructure of the public water and transportation systems. Much as I hate to drive to work or even see others doing bottled water like never before and in greater frequencies day after day, these are obvious glaring symptoms that it's time to stand up for your tax dollars and stop electing pols that divert money to tax cuts for the wealthy and wars for oil all the while allowing the country's crucial infrastructure to languish.
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» It's way beyond Reagan economics --
Posted by: Last Chance
» There you go again thinking that big government will save you. That was gone in 1980.
Posted by: maxpayne
» There YOU go again --
Posted by: Last Chance
» RE: There YOU go again -- racist neo-Malthusian BULLSHITTER !
Posted by: maxpayne
» RE: your population maximalism is pointless!
Posted by: Tom Tele
» I may not be a biologist but neither am I a doom-and-gloom racist neo-Malthusian bullshitter
Posted by: maxpayne
» Why racist?
Posted by: truthlover
» Do a full research on Malthus first and quit making a mountain out of a mole hill ! Geesh !
Posted by: maxpayne
» full research unnecessary, it's simple mathematics
Posted by: truthlover
» Precious Hemp! The Tree of Life!
Posted by: garry minor
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Posted by: JoshuaLudd on Aug 11, 2008 7:21 AM
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Posted by: opmoc on Aug 11, 2008 8:13 AM
Current rating: 2 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
No one is disputing that the World is facing massive problems - but we need to determine what the problems and causes are by objective science - not religious and political faith based dogma.
Extracts from Dr David Evans a consultant to the Australian Greenhouse Office from 1999 to 2005 who spent six years on carbon accounting, building models for the Australian Greenhouse Office.
full text
"There is no evidence to support the idea that carbon emissions cause significant global warming. None. There is plenty of evidence that global warming has occurred, and theory suggests that carbon emissions should raise temperatures (though by how much is hotly disputed) but there are no observations by anyone that implicate carbon emissions as a significant cause of the recent global warming."
"The satellites that measure the world's temperature all say that the warming trend ended in 2001, and that the temperature has dropped about 0.6C in the past year (to the temperature of 1980). Land-based temperature readings are corrupted by the "urban heat island" effect: urban areas encroaching on thermometer stations warm the micro-climate around the thermometer, due to vegetation changes, concrete, cars, houses. Satellite data is the only temperature data we can trust, but it only goes back to 1979. NASA reports only land-based data, and reports a modest warming trend and recent cooling. The other three global temperature records use a mix of satellite and land measurements, or satellite only, and they all show no warming since 2001 and a recent cooling."
"So far that debate has just consisted of a simple sleight of hand: show evidence of global warming, and while the audience is stunned at the implications, simply assert that it is due to carbon emissions.
In the minds of the audience, the evidence that global warming has occurred becomes conflated with the alleged cause, and the audience hasn't noticed that the cause was merely asserted, not proved.
If there really was any evidence that carbon emissions caused global warming, don't you think we would have heard all about it ad nauseam by now?
The world has spent $50 billion on global warming since 1990, and we have not found any actual evidence that carbon emissions cause global warming. Evidence consists of observations made by someone at some time that supports the idea that carbon emissions cause global warming. Computer models and theoretical calculations are not evidence, they are just theory."
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» RE: $50BN spent on Global Warming since 1990. YET NO EVIDENCE FOUND That CO2 is The Cause
Posted by: richholland
» RE: $50BN spent on Global Warming since 1990. YET NO EVIDENCE FOUND That CO2 is The Cause
Posted by: opmoc
» Uhm.. since when...
Posted by: JoshuaLudd
» Read "Eco-Imperialism: Green Power, Black Death" by Paul Driessen
Posted by: opmoc
» Driessen is an energy lobbyist, right wing propagandist
Posted by: PaulC
» Cooling is as likely as warming since the Earth never stays constant.
Posted by: edgar1
» Nothing you say, edgar1, is supported by actual science.
Posted by: PaulC
» Greenhouse effect=less heat radiated into space
Posted by: leafsong1
» RE: Greenhouse effect=less heat radiated into space
Posted by: opmoc
» RE: Greenhouse effect=less heat radiated into space
Posted by: Cherenkovrad
» "Could you be any more ignorant?" Typical response from a religious lunatic who hasn't been educated
Posted by: opmoc
» Atheist Mocks Scientifically Illiterate: Has Great Fun
Posted by: Cherenkovrad
» Cherenkovrad Buy Yourself a Rubic Cube Each Day For The Next Week
Posted by: opmoc
» CO2 not a pollutant?
Posted by: Tom Tele
» RE: CO2 not a pollutant?
Posted by: opmoc
» Global Warming is not a bulk effect, it is a change in equilibrium - a change at the margins
Posted by: PaulC
» RE: $50BN spent on Global Warming since 1990. YET NO EVIDENCE FOUND That CO2 is The Cause
Posted by: zipoka
» My God, A Practical Approach! Call the Thought Police!
Posted by: edgar1
» This is flat-out a bunch of lies and propaganda.
Posted by: PaulC
Comments are closed-
Posted by: richholland on Aug 11, 2008 8:14 AM
Current rating: 3 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
2. as servants they get mexicans or phillipins if the Rich and Beautifull live in Dubai.
3. some middle class and skilled workers are usefull so they might survive.
4. lame old sick retarded overweighted etc.
who cares????
Learn your kids to escape , not by survival kits
usefull in the woods( 80 % of us lives in a city!!) but by building up a network
to protect yourself.
learn to enjoy things like family and friendship, repair things instead of chinese slaveproducts.
Do not forget; if the traditional parties; Democrats and Reps loose jobs because you vote independent or GREEn. They will change, they will change only if it costs them money..
Buy second hand and prizes go down...
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» I could be wrong, but are you saying "vote as you always have....
Posted by: Prophit
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Posted by: jeffrey7 on Aug 11, 2008 8:21 AM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
For being the most superior lifeform (what a joke) on the planet, why do we devise the means for our own distruction and be stupid enough to use it? If we are so smart why do we live so out of balance with the natural world?
The answer is really quite simple. We changed what we put our faith in. We used to have faith that if we took care of our planet it would take care of us. Because of that we had a strong connection to all life. The change in faith came when we started making things beyond what we actually needed for daily living. I-pods,I-phones, huge energy sucking cities,great machines of all types,rockets into space and endless chunks of metal floating around the planet beaming us with God know's what. So until we change where we put of faith,we will be condemed to repeat the evolutionary march all over again becuase we will have killed ourselves with the inventions that we put so much faith in.
Jeffrey7 for Prez '08
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Posted by: LB_AIA on Aug 11, 2008 8:30 AM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
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» RE: Made our non-choice 3 decades ago
Posted by: edgar1
» RE: Made our non-choice 3 decades ago
Posted by: Cherenkovrad
» Small self-sufficient communities the way to go ideally, but..
Posted by: edgar1
» RE: Small self-sufficient communities the way to go ideally, but..
Posted by: Cybershaman
Comments are closed-
Posted by: PaulK on Aug 11, 2008 8:42 AM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Both the Arctic permafrost and the methane clatrates on the Arctic Ocean's continental shelves are currently around the melting point of water, just as an actively melting ice cube is at this melting point. Large methane releases were measured in the atmosphere over Siberia last year, and this year is no different.
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» It Is Normal For Arctic Ice To Melt. The Sun Shines 24x7 in Summer
Posted by: opmoc
» Yeah, that's why the arctic has always been...
Posted by: leafsong1
» RE: Yeah, that's why the arctic has always been...
Posted by: opmoc
» Scientifically Illiterate Man Counts All the Polar Bears from His Armchair
Posted by: Cherenkovrad
» I'm Not Worried About Polar Bears But Hot Air From Gore
Posted by: edgar1
» What is your scientific background edgar1? You sound as poorly informed as opmoc.
Posted by: PaulC
» RE: Yeah, that's why the arctic has always been...
Posted by: Tom Tele
» RE: Yeah, that's why the arctic has always been...
Posted by: opmoc
» RE: Yeah, that's why the arctic has always been...
Posted by: edgar1
» RE: Yeah, that's why the arctic has always been...
Posted by: Cybershaman
» RE: Mike, you missed the decarbonization of 10 trillion tons of methane
Posted by: Cybershaman
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Posted by: GreyFoxThree on Aug 11, 2008 8:48 AM
Current rating: 1 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
JT
Ultimate Anonymity
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Posted by: deccles on Aug 11, 2008 10:04 AM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Reducing pollutions and emissions 50% by 2050 makes the gross assumption that the human population of earth will have enough oil, natural gas, coal, and other fossil fuels to last that long. This assumption shows the IPCC to be wholly ignorant of the fact (whether by political influence or stupidity) the world is already in terminal decline of fossil fuels, and will run out long before 2050 (our best hope is 35 years of remaining usable supplies).
This pie-in-the-sky assessment will be our undoing, because every new technology for reducing emmissions requires an underlying dependence on petroleum products, including nuclear.
The basic laws of physics dictate that you can't get something from nothing (e.g. creating hydrogen from wind).
My suggestion to you all is to buy and read the book "The Long Emergency", by James Howard Kuntsler. The sooner you get it and read it, the sooner you can start preparing for the inevitable decline of human civilization as we know it.
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» RE: Whilst I Have No Respect For The IPCC - You Make An Even Bigger Miscalculation
Posted by: Cherenkovrad
» RE: We Are Swimming in Oil - And Your Maths Could Be Corrected By an 11 Year Old
Posted by: Cherenkovrad
» Cherenkovrad - thanks for taking on this nonsense...
Posted by: PaulC
» Atheist Mocks Scientifically Illiterate
Posted by: Cherenkovrad
» Cherenkovrad Buy Yourself a Rubic Cube Each Day For The Next Week
Posted by: opmoc
» Explain yourself, below
Posted by: bingahaba
» RE: The IPCC Makes Major Miscalculation
Posted by: Fat Man at the Buffet Line
» Do What We Can
Posted by: edgar1
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Posted by: jwverez on Aug 11, 2008 10:36 AM
Current rating: 3 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
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» RE: Oh great, more BIG GOVERNMENT NANNYING on the way? Let's just get it over with !!
Posted by: Cherenkovrad
» RE: Oh great, more BIG GOVERNMENT NANNYING on the way? Let's just get it over with !!
Posted by: zipoka
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Posted by: Fat Man at the Buffet Line on Aug 11, 2008 10:42 AM
Current rating: 3 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
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Posted by: chorton on Aug 11, 2008 10:47 AM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
The most serious omission from Davis' "standard model" of global catastrophe is that the billions of people who share this planet and its fate are sentient beings, capable of imagining the past and visualizing alternative futures, and increasingly capable of reading and understanding what the scientists are saying.
As we try to picture what can happen, we must consider what the people in their billions might do, not just as victims, "ignorant armies [that] clash by night", but increasingly as conscious actors, able to see their own individual crises as part of a global picture, able analyze the situation and picture the consequences of their actions. And able to see the possibility that by acting together they might gain control and change the outcome. Then we need to make a mental shift, and include ourselves among them. The question then becomes “what will *we* do”? For it is a fantasy to imagine that we, most of the readers of this article, are among the masters of the Empire, those who get to choose its direction, and the evidence thus far is that those masters are unable or unwilling to heed us.
We are like passengers on a ship that is headed toward the rocks. Our fellow passengers are the welders and toilet-cleaners of Dubai, the rice-farmers and garment-workers of Bangladesh, the machine builders and prostitutes of Sao Paulo. And also the WalMart clerks and school teachers of Tulsa, the migrant chicken-packers and the children selling nickel bags on the street corners of Nashville, the guards and the prisoners of San Quentin. Like Walter Mitty, we fantasize, as do they all, about what we would do if we were captain, and we despair when we remember that we are not and see that he won't listen.
So what will the billions do when they – we - fully comprehend our situation? When we understand that we’re all in the same boat, and that only by acting together to get control of the ship can we generate a future for ourselves and for our children and our great-grandchildren? The answer is not written. Science can go only so far in forecasting what will happen, because so much of the current situation is unprecedented. For example, we can learn from the ecological and social collapse of earlier societies such as the Maya, and try to use those as models, but part of what makes our situation unique is that our toilet-cleaner in Dubai is very possibly listening and pondering their fate! Moreover, much of our science of what people do and why is “tobacco science”, paid for by those who want to keep control and preserve the status quo, those who want to disempower us.
Science must go beyond what Davis is presenting. It must include in its models the possibility that forklift operators in Caracas, coffee-pickers in Kenya and file-clerks in Chicago will fully comprehend the situation and act together to change outcomes. Such a science will empower us to think globally and to reject temptations and inducements to despair or to blame each other.
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Posted by: mnstra on Aug 11, 2008 10:56 AM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
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Posted by: Cherenkovrad on Aug 11, 2008 11:00 AM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Of course, we could come together with the specific idea of "powering down," as Richard Heinberg puts it, by assuming that we will end up at a certain technological level when the carbon bonanza has been depleted and shoot for that level now while energy is relatively cheap.
Will we do that? Of course not. As long as propagandists and their cheerleaders and protectors spew misinformation in order to promote false hope, we are screwed. You see, as long as Becky and Joe Consumer believe that the technology fairy will save their fat butts, they will kick and scream and monkey wrench any process that threatens their glorious future of fast food and NASCAR.
So, what to do? Since the majority of the population in the Western world takes to heart Cheney's dictum that "The Western way of life is non-negotiable," we will be unable to plan in any sensible fashion, at least with the majority as willing partners. It seems that the only rational process would to ignore the government and its consumers and go about the process of building small self-sufficient communities that could act as templates and knowledge repositories available to the post-collapse millions.
Granted, these "lifeboats," as many call them, may be overrun by hordes from the city, but the more we build the more likely it is that some sort of sustainable civilization will be left to sort through the ashes.
My guess is, should there be any response to this missive, that that response will be dismissive because that is the precise disease we face.
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» RE: Nature Bats Last
Posted by: bluebirdella
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Posted by: TJColatrella on Aug 11, 2008 11:09 AM
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» RE: The Exxonocene Era...!
Posted by: edgar_michel
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Posted by: eochiai on Aug 11, 2008 11:43 AM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
To correct this trend, it may need a complete overhaul of the major value (belief) systems. For example, the population. Most cultures and religions are bent on procreation, because those cultures and religious beliefs were developed in the era when human lives were difficult to sustain, and hence more children were desirable. Now Homo sapiens (at least in some countries) has developed the social, economic, and medical systems that can maintain human lives fairly long, and yet, the cultural and religious beliefs remain the same as old. Now that Homo sapiens has increased its number of individuals and consumes enormous amount of energy and resources to almost overwhelm the planet capacity, the old belief systems may need be reevaluated.
One important new ethics to be developed is “self-restraint”. Before the industrial revolution provided more than enough material, people were careful not to over-consume. This was typically manifested in the Edo period of Japan (1600-1868). They sustained their high population density (about twice that of the current world average) and vibrant culture based on only renewable resources and solar energy. One of the reasons they managed to do so was the people’s attitude: “self-restraint”. Unfortunately, many of the other value systems including the three major religions emerged in the Middle East and even communism encourage attainment of “desires”. It is deemed to be a “virtue”. Hardest to change is people’s ethical, value system.
Next, the economic system needs to be overhauled. The current system is “corporatocracy”. The corporations have gained their perpetual existence and dominance in the economic system by manipulating the political and legal systems. They are human creation by laws, and their authorities can theoretically be challenged and be subsumed under popular control, if enough realization and enough muscle to challenge can be mustered. It has to be.
There are many other issues, all difficult to deal with. But solutions must be found and implemented. Otherwise human civilization will not be here in the not-too distant future. All human wisdom needs to be focused on these issues and solutions.
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» Some of us are trying to put forth solutions but the doom-and-gloom dumbfuck zombies won't listen !
Posted by: maxpayne
» RE: Some of us are trying to put forth solutions but the doom-and-gloom dumbfuck zombies won't listen !
Posted by: Dboy
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Posted by: opmoc on Aug 11, 2008 11:47 AM
Current rating: 2 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
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Posted by: Cherenkovrad on Aug 11, 2008 12:07 PM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Y2K was a non-event precisely because computer programmers put in thousands upon thousands of overtime hours rewriting code. Had they had the typical attitude about Y2K we see now, all hell would have broken loose. The sad thing is those people who constantly bring up Y2K as a non-event would have been at the forefront of the wailing, crying, and general whining had those programmers not done the excellent job they did.
That being said, comparing the current situation to Y2K is like comparing leaky water wings in a swimming pool to the Titanic.
Just because there was a techno-fix for the Y2K bug doesn't mean that there will be a techno-fix for the current set of problems.
Faulty thinking is part of the problem. STOP IT. Perhaps a nice college course on critical thinking skills would be in order?
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» RE: Are there any survivors from the Katrina disaster?
Posted by: opmoc
» RE: Are there any survivors from the Katrina disaster?
Posted by: Tom Tele
» RE: Are there any survivors from the Katrina disaster?
Posted by: Cherenkovrad
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Posted by: Cherenkovrad on Aug 11, 2008 12:35 PM
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But they will be successful because most people are not schooled enough to pick apart their arguments. In fact, the common people love these illiterates because they always promise more of the same, that the party will go on and on.
It reminds me of the wonderful story about the electrician who thought he could disprove Einstein's theory of relativity. Because he was a friend of a radio producer, he participated in a radio show where this man was allowed to debate a physicist. From the beginning of the debate, it was clear that the electrician was clueless. He could not understand why the physicist kept insisting on a uniformity of mathematical language. He could not understand even the most basic tenets of physics, yet he persisted for quite some time. Though the physicist tried and tried, he could not convince the electrician of his errors. When the electrician left, the physicist, a bit put off by the amateur, said, "We get hundreds of letters every year from people claiming to have debunked Einstein's theory. Not one of them could pass a basic physics class." It would be painfully funny except for the fact that so many people stick their noses into scientific arguments without a clue as to what they are doing. They don't even know that thousands upon thousands of real scientists are laughing at them. And, even more sad, they would not care, would not change one tiny bit of their crackpot theories for anything in the world.
So, the climate change deniers continue blogging away, spewing hysterically funny theories, hopelessly showing themselves to be terrific clowns, while still thinking themselves serious participants in the discussion.
Sorry, but a media outlet is not a peer-reviewed scientific journal. Get your ideas published, then start blogging. Or, even better, look at all the peer-reviewed papers that acknowledge the existence of human caused global climate change and count them up, then count up the peer-reviewed dissenting papers. Bring that count to the blog, if you dare.
Meanwhile, no more pocky for kitty. The science illiterates can expect plenty of ridicule, but only for so long. Even teasing those who wish the death of the planet can get boring.
Auf wiedersehen.
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» I'm An Atheist and A Climate Skeptic
Posted by: edgar1
» RE: You're A Climate Skeptic???
Posted by: fearn
» Freeman Dyson
Posted by: edgar1
» Filled to the Brim
Posted by: LeaderofMen
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Posted by: Anthhh on Aug 11, 2008 1:29 PM
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Posted by: PaulK on Aug 11, 2008 1:36 PM
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» RE: It's August 11th,
Posted by: edgar1
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Posted by: Shakti on Aug 11, 2008 1:44 PM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
But merely amplifying the fear, as this article does, is not helpful. Many creative, courageous, ingenious people are coming up with all kinds of solutions and answers. Take a look at the 11th Hour (www.11thhour.com) or read Suzuki's The Sacred Balance, or learn about John Todd's Living Machines, or log onto the Bioneers website (www.bioneers.org), or give some money to an international relief organization (e.g., Mercy Corps) or just go inflate your tires and insulate your house.
Do something positive that takes us in a good direction. Start building a better world in your little corner of the universe.
Above all, don't give in to fear. Fear shuts us down and makes us isolated. Right now, we need to connect: with one another, with nature, with ourselves.
"A human being is a part of the whole, called by us the ‘universe’, a part limited in time and space. He experiences himself, his thoughts and feelings as something separate from the rest – a kind of optical illusion of his consciousness. This delusion is a kind of prison for us, restricting us to our personal desires and to affection for a few persons nearest to us. Our task must be to free ourselves from the prison by widening our circle of compassion to embrace all living creatures and the whole of nature in its beauty. Nobody is able to achieve this completely, but the striving for such achievement is in itself a part of the liberation and a foundation for inner security." - Albert Einstein, quoted in the New York Post, November 28, 1972.
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» RE: plenty Room for Gloom and Doom
Posted by: Tom Tele
» RE: plenty Room for Gloom and Doom
Posted by: opmoc
» RE: plenty Room for Gloom and Doom
Posted by: Cherenkovrad
» opmoc simply makes things up
Posted by: PaulC
» I think he left the thread before you arrived
Posted by: bingahaba
» Thanks. Yeah, I arrived here a bit late
Posted by: PaulC
» Corporate shills, anti-troll tactics etc
Posted by: bingahaba
» I found Duesberg, will pour gravy ;)
Posted by: bingahaba
» Thanks for the offer regarding your blog idea
Posted by: PaulC
» Some more ideas
Posted by: bingahaba
» Yes, I think those are good ideas
Posted by: PaulC
» Amen. It's time to shut the doom-and-gloom machine down and get crackin'
Posted by: maxpayne
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Posted by: toddcory on Aug 11, 2008 3:11 PM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Todd
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» Everything is now.
Posted by: Cherenkovrad
» RE: evolve or die
Posted by: Dboy
» RE: Adapt ... Adapt ... or you will be entrapped!
Posted by: Cybershaman
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Posted by: snideelf on Aug 11, 2008 3:52 PM
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A slow process that Man can avoid, but refuses out of sheer ignorance to do anything about.
The Planet has no feeling whatsoever.
It will just go through the necessary cycles to rid itself of the human blight.
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» Planet Earth isn't doing anything. People aren't either that's the problem.
Posted by: common intelligence
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Posted by: sirios on Aug 11, 2008 3:53 PM
Current rating: 1 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
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Posted by: snideelf on Aug 11, 2008 4:43 PM
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Posted by: common intelligence on Aug 11, 2008 5:35 PM
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Old habits are hard to break. For the masses that breeded like lemmings, well keep running toward the cliff.
Those still causualists, queitly continuing by ignoring the truth, you just keep putting up those Christmas lights and watering your lawns and going on looky loo vacations to piss the last years of your lives away.
OR
You could plant a garden or some trees and relish that which could be your sacred mother earth. Praise her and take care of her.
Now that would be a fulfilling way to vacation.
The souveniers you'd get in return will fill you lives with joy longer than a throw away plastic trinket.
Life is really simple to enjoy without using all kinds of resourses meandering around looking for the Holy Grail.
The poles can't be stopped from melting at this point. But humans wasting resourses can be. From fuel to excessive eating habits and clothing you don't need. The materialistic consumer mentality must be curbed. LUn learn bad habits by replacing them with good ones.
Learn to sit, be quiet, and watch your mind. Learn to recognize and contol yourselves from wasting you precious breath babbbling with out reason.
Stop participating in the (American) dream. Awaken and face the reality of your true natue. Then the answer will be revealed un to you.
(Otherwise keep hoping that Jesus will safe you from your stupidity. IT ain't going to happen.)
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Posted by: common intelligence on Aug 11, 2008 5:39 PM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Old habits are hard to break. For the masses that breeded like lemmings, well keep running toward the cliff.
Those still causualists, queitly continuing by ignoring the truth, you just keep putting up those Christmas lights and watering your lawns and going on looky loo vacations to piss the last years of your lives away.
OR
You could plant a garden or some trees and relish that which could be your sacred mother earth. Praise her and take care of her.
Now that would be a fulfilling way to vacation.
The souveniers you'd get in return will fill you lives with joy longer than a throw away plastic trinket.
Life is really simple to enjoy without using all kinds of resourses meandering around looking for the Holy Grail.
The poles can't be stopped from melting at this point. But humans wasting resourses can be. From fuel to excessive eating habits and clothing you don't need. The materialistic consumer mentality must be curbed. Unlearn bad habits by replacing them with good ones.
Learn to sit, be quiet, and watch your mind. Learn to recognize and contol yourselves from wasting you precious breath babbbling with out reason.
Stop participating in the (American) dream. Awaken and face the reality of your true natue. Then the answer will be revealed un to you.
(Otherwise keep hoping that Jesus will safe you from your stupidity. IT ain't going to happen.)
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Posted by: disgusted on Aug 11, 2008 7:03 PM
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Posted by: blogbooks on Aug 11, 2008 7:35 PM
Current rating: 3 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Because the pigs that run the system have no interest in providing anything for you that you don't earn 10 times over through your blood, sweat, and tears.
When the "system" finally fails and billions starve to death or die fighting pointlessly bloody wars the people to blame will get away with it yet again.
It's so beautiful that the wealthy are walled and isolated behind so many layers of protection that the idiot masses, even the somewhat informed idiot masses on Alternet, do not dare place the blame on them. No, it's always the "corporations" or "the system."
Sheep. Looks like the rich will be eating mutton chops for a few years while the rest of us starve to death in the streets.
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» RE: The best part is that they've convinced you it's systemic, rather than planned, failure
Posted by: HANGTRAITORS
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Posted by: bingahaba on Aug 11, 2008 7:58 PM
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opmoc: Could you state clearly your objection to Cherenkovrad's volume calculation? In your rubic cube example, the volume grows linearly with time, i.e. at the volume of 1 rubic cube at a time.
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» RE: To opmoc, Cherenkovrad
Posted by: opmoc
» re Reisman
Posted by: bingahaba
» correction
Posted by: bingahaba
» Total oil and crust at 85 million barrels / day
Posted by: bingahaba
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Posted by: govindas on Aug 11, 2008 9:16 PM
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http://workingvillages.org
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Posted by: Ignatz deFyre on Aug 12, 2008 10:59 AM
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» RE: We are entering the WholeObscene Era.
Posted by: Sardaukar
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Posted by: BlueBerry PickN on Aug 12, 2008 12:14 PM
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Oceanic Trash Maelstrom: "Trashed: Across the Pacific Ocean".
water, water everywhere... but not a drop to drink...
┄┄┄┄┄┄┄┄┄┄┄┄┄┄┄┄┄┄┄
BlueBerry Pick'n
can be found @
ThisCanadian
┄┄
"We, ... tolerance of intolerance is cowardice..." ~ Ayaan Hirsi Ali.
"We, two, form a Multitude" ~ Ovid.
┄┄
"Silent Freedom is Freedom Silenced"
┄┄┄┄┄┄┄┄┄┄┄┄┄┄┄┄┄┄┄
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» Sorry, 90% of the U.S. is Christian. They don't care about the Earth, they're going to heaven!
Posted by: blogbooks
» you might enjoy this documentary, then...
Posted by: BlueBerry PickN
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Posted by: gsmiley on Aug 13, 2008 7:55 PM
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Posted by: scienceisnotconsensus on Aug 14, 2008 8:02 AM
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wake up
http://climatesci.org
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» What is this link? Is it a virus? Who is this poster? People, use some discretion regarding links
Posted by: PaulC
» RE: What is this link? Is it a virus? Who is this poster? People, use some discretion regarding links
Posted by: scienceisnotconsensus
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Posted by: uncleeddie on Aug 15, 2008 2:47 PM
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Posted by: zenfindel on Aug 17, 2008 5:51 PM
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Trial Begins for Activist Who Fought to Protect Federal Lands from Drilling -- Join the Protest
California Carbon Trading Allows Timber Companies to Sell CO2 Credits for Their Worst Logging Practices
How to Answer the Dumb Things Climate Deniers Say


