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Environment

Dealing with the School Bully Epidemic

By Corinne Gregory and Lisa Finan, Huffington Post. Posted May 19, 2008.


Let's ask ourselves the tough questions about why there's so much bullying in schools, and actually be willing to be honest with the answer.
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Unless you've been living in a cave the last few weeks, you have no doubt been bombarded with the horrific images of the recent rash of violent school-based incidents. Teens luring a cheerleader classmate to a home and beating her repeatedly while the video camera rolls; a teacher being assaulted in her classroom by students; a high-schooler throwing a metal chair at another in class knocking the victim unconscious; a 13-year middle schooler who admits that he planned to shoot up his school because he was being bullied.

Even more appalling than these animalistic acts themselves seems to be the general lack of outrage about them! A few choice "oh my gosh-es" and we seem to be done for the day. The media is more interested in post-game quarterbacking, trying to decide if these children should be tried as juveniles or adults, or whether a well-known comedian's mother's book would be the answer to these ills, than it is in actually analyzing the root cause and investigating solutions.

What's wrong with this picture?

We as a country spend billions of dollars annually on anti-bullying programs in our schools, yet the incidents not only continue, they appear to be getting worse in severity and frequency, and occur in increasingly-younger students. Today, our kids stand a one-in-four chance of becoming victims of some form of school-based violence before they reach high school. News flash: what we're doing isn't working!

So, the knee-jerk reaction is to play the blame game: it's YouTube, it's the Internet, it's broken homes, it's our global lifestyle. But, blaming isn't fixing. We have to accept that instead of trying to minimize or manage the existing problem of bullying and school-based violence, we have to focus on preventing it in the first place. Today's children are just not coming into school -- into life -- equipped with adequate social skills and character development that helps them understand that this kind of behavior is simply not OK. They are not taught to respect and value differences among people, in opinions, in actions. "It's all about me!" is the mantra of many of our youth today, and the behavior we see splattered all over the 'net is the result.

People may argue that social skills education belongs in the home, not in the schools, and I'd be the first to agree. But, our schools have become a war zone, where teachers spend more time disciplining students and trying to keep order than they do teaching! Is it any wonder our schools under-perform? If you were losing 20/30/50% of your average educational time because of behavior issues, how effective do you think you could be?

The good news is that there is a better way. Social skills education works, when properly implemented. Bullying is not just reduced -- it's eliminated. Not because there are more "enforcers" around, in the form of extra administrators, counselors, or police, but because the students won't stand for it. A comprehensive social skills program, integrated into the core curriculum, can restore order, sanity, and productivity to the schools. It raises student and teacher morale -- it even contributes to better test scores. It helps produce not only good students, but good people.

How many more of our kids must be intimidated, hurt, or killed before it becomes important enough to do something about instead of just talk about it around the water cooler the next morning? Our children deserve to feel safe, to feel valued when they leave our homes to go to school. We as parents and as taxpayers must insist that the increasing cycle of school violence be stopped.

Instead of just shaking our heads and saying what a shame it all is, let's ask ourselves the tough questions about why it happened, and actually be willing to be honest with the answer. Then we can start doing something to fix it.

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See more stories tagged with: schools, bullying

Corinne Gregory is the Founder of SocialSmarts. Lisa Finan is the Director of Business Development for SocialSmarts.

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Kids get bullied because yuppy parents, with their college degrees in psychology...
Posted by: blogbooks on May 19, 2008 1:33 AM   
Current rating: 2    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
...trying to teach adult style "conflict management" to children.

Children are vicious little animals on whom words have no impact.

Every child, no...every American, should be trained and ready to stand up for themselves or their loved ones in any conceivable situation.

As with most things in a child's life, the parents are to blame. Don't let your kid get soft playing video games.

Keep them physically active, train them to fight, and teach them that there is strength in numbers.

Weakness invites aggression. The solution is to remove all weakness.

As Putin said of America once, "brother wolf knows whom he can and cannot prey upon." So it is in life.

Lupus est homo homini.

[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]

» Perhaps . . . Posted by: Scientz
» RE: Perhaps . . . Posted by: carbon-based
» RE: Perhaps . . . Posted by: improperly_sedated
» Hahahahahaha . . . Posted by: Scientz
» It's not your condescending tone Posted by: improperly_sedated
» Fair enough. Posted by: Scientz
» Immediate assumption? Posted by: improperly_sedated
» Perfect. Posted by: Scientz
Monkey see, monkey do
Posted by: mizipi on May 19, 2008 1:44 AM   
Current rating: 4    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Our nation is a "bully", so our children only do what their government teaches them to do. Pick on Iraq and Afghanistan, two nations, much like Vietnam, that are vulnerable. Bomb them into the stone age, it seems one of our leaders said. Killing innocents, becomes collateral damage. A few years ago, I remember a story on NPR about how the bullying at Columbine had decreased since the incident there. So in this New World Order proclaimed by Pres Bush #1, the two kids that did the shooting should have been praised for their actions.

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» RE: Monkey see, monkey do Posted by: wagadog
» RE: Every kid is different Posted by: UnEasyOne
Life skills
Posted by: phindrup on May 19, 2008 3:51 AM   
Current rating: 3    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
In my view learning to cope with bullies is a life skill. Different kids use different techniques. A good many learn to use humour/ridicule, some learn to attach themselves to a ‘protector’, some learn to fight.
At school in the early forties teachers seldom interfered. I was a small, quiet kid who was happiest when I was reading. I went to a tough school.
Eventually circumstances forced me to stand up and fight back, not very effectually, but it was a start. Over time I learned to be effective. It was the one thing I had over the inevitably bigger bullies. They were just thugs, whereas every time I was beaten up I learned something. Eventually I started winning.
The lessons learned have served me well all my life. Don’t back down to anybody. Look for the weak points and attack those.
You do not have to become unbeatable, just so much of a handful that it is not worth the trouble of annoying you.
Within reasonable limits, let the kids sort it out for themselves. The skills that they learn will benefit them all their lives.

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Susan Rosenthal
Posted by: Susan Rosenthal on May 19, 2008 4:02 AM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
How disappointing!
I thought this article was going to ask the TOUGH questions.

Bullying doesn’t begin in school.
Our world is saturated with bullying.
Stronger nations dominate weaker ones.
Employers target one worker, or group of workers, to control the rest.
Teachers humiliate one student, or group of students, to discipline them all.

Children learn by mimicking adults.
Every day, the people in power demonstrate their right to use violence against the less powerful. Judges dismiss police brutality, and politicians build prisons, persecute immigrants and launch wars.
Childhood bullying is a "copycat" response to these social practices.

Pre-school kids play games like “king of the castle” to prepare for a world of winners and losers. “Cowboys and Indians” is practice in domination and subordination.

This article condemns bullying among children, but not in presidents, politicians, judges, generals and CEOs.
It’s not fair to blame children for what adults create.
In fact, it’s just another form of bullying.

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» Well said, Susan Rosenthal Posted by: pete ess
» RE: Susan Rosenthal Posted by: sully18
» RE: Susan Rosenthal Posted by: eshatter
Yes and No
Posted by: socialpsych on May 19, 2008 4:23 AM   
Current rating: 4    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Yes, bullying among young teens is definitely not good. But the alarmist tone of this article probably distorts reality:

"Today, our kids stand a one-in-four chance of becoming victims of some form of school-based violence before they reach high school."

The insinuation is that kids today are more rotten than they have always been. But haven't violence and cruelty among hormone-crazed teenagers always been pretty much the norm? When I was in junior high school in the late 1960's, I was punched, slapped, humiliated, and intimidated a number of times, and I saw plenty of the same behavior all around me.

What has changed is the technologies available to kids that can facilitate or amplify their misconduct. They can broadcast nasty text messages about classmates, post humiliating videos on You Tube, and spread rumors on FaceBook and MySpace. And they can borrow Dad's gun to get revenge. Same evolutionarily-based behavior, different tools.

Can we change hormone-driven aggression among young teens? Probably not. But it would not be impossible to control the tools kids often use to act out their aggression and poor judgment.

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» balderash Posted by: e rice
» RE: balderash Posted by: DaBear
"It's all about me!"
Posted by: kepstein7777 on May 19, 2008 4:23 AM   
Current rating: 4    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
However many programs the schools implement, ultimately it does go back to the parents, many of whom have made their kids the center of their universe. One of my theories is that there is conflict between the universe their parents have created for them, and the real one.

In trying to resolve this conflict, kids have resorted to bullying, MySpace pages, grand schemes to blow up the school, and other methods to build their real-world selves into the one Mom and Dad have imagined.

I partly blame Harry Chapin for this. He helped enshrine the idea that if you don't spend that extra moment of "quality time" with your kids, you will be kicking yourself the rest of your life. But in the real world, you may often be too busy paying the bills, doing the wash, and fixing the car to bring your kids to Disney every weekend. And in my experience, it's perfectly okay, and a valuable lesson for the kids to see that.

I suppose "social skills" education might help, but I think the best education would be to de-program parents from the Soccer Parent mentality, and teach them how to stop breeding little narcissists.

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» RE: "It's all about me!" Posted by: wagadog
no real information in this article
Posted by: aislinnluv on May 19, 2008 4:46 AM   
Current rating: 4    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
suggestions as to how to implement this social skills instruction? does this include a change in administration policy concerning zero tolerance, so that a child who is being bullied and tries to defend himself is not punished? (obviously, there are degrees of allowable "self-defense"). simply advocating the teaching of social skills does not adequately deal with cultural differences that might mean one child is already more inclined to bully to get his way and one child is culturally coached to be more passive. simply having a course that students are required to attend will not guarantee success. the problem lies deeper and will not go away just because we tell our children that there are better ways to deal with their feelings than finding and beating up a weaker child. my kids were bullied and i found that the schools' attempts to deal with the situations were not only ineffective but also likely led the offenders to believe they could offend again with impunity. ("punishing" a child by suspending him from school? laughable! a kid who bullies is not likely to be a highly-motivated student who desires to attend classes and get good grades). i don't know how we can reach kids who have a cavalier attitude toward serving time in prison. when kids do things without a thought toward consequences, or when the consequences don't matter, what is there we can do?

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vapid
Posted by: kiel on May 19, 2008 4:56 AM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
I agree with the posters who bemoan the lack of content here. Furthermore, the writer is guilty of the same self-centeredness that it blames bullying on. Bullying is worse in Japan than the U.S., for example. So any hypothesized connection between uniquely American sources (e.g., the "our country is a bully" argument farther up the comment list) is specious. A much more reasonable case could be made (and has been, if the author had bothered to read any of the massive research into bullying) is that it happens in adolescent populations around the world, but that it manifests itself differently in different cultures, and that it is responded to differently in various cultures.

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Bullies and terrorism
Posted by: carl baydala on May 19, 2008 4:58 AM   
Current rating: 4    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
It is heartwarming to read the comments by those who feel like I do about this topic of bullying. I think about this topic frequently because as a teenager I was bullied as well. That was in the early sixties. From this personal experience I would say that at root to the problem is the issue of power. People on this board recognize this element of the problem.

I see no difference between a school bully ( or in today's context a group of bullies ) and a president of a country who decides that it is OK to pick on weaker countries because he has the power to do so. I think you would agree that a school bully and a president of a country are not entirely synonomous, however. But, their actions are both expressions of their power to commit an act of violence nonetheless. The school bully is perhaps acting against his weaker counterpart in order to perhaps gain some status with his peers or to provide some relief from his own weakness in society. School children generally are weak participants in the broader society, much like prison inmates who are ruled by authoritarian figures. So, we might surmize that authority has something to do with our problem of bullying. Perhaps, in a way then the school bully is acting against authority and his general position of weakness. Maybe, like the prison inmate he sees no future or sense to the organization to which he belongs. He rejects it.

Both the school bully and a president do have responsibilities, however. Both are acting irresponsibly in causing harm to those with less power than themselves. A school bully has no right to cause physical or psychological harm to his peers. If schools ar so bad that they cannot correct the problem then perhaps we should consider doing away with schools if that is all they can do to create people who cause harm in others. Maybe schools are ineffective institutions and are not real places of learning to begin with.

Our president, however, much like the school administrator must set some kind of example to his underlings. I have severely criticized the school system above because they really are much like prisons, and prisons are not pleasant places to be if the only objective is to control a population rather than teach it something useful. But, back to our president. Others have already pointed out that this is the individual who must provide strong and meaningful leadership for his country.

Clearly, this is not the case in the United States.

Leadership by example would mean that our president is guiding his citizens to freedom, peace, and prosperity. I don't think the population is seeing much of these things lately. And, that is because our president is not doing his jobe effectively. Not only is he acting as bully in the international scene and abusing his power, but he is, through his actions, condoning the violence in society. Bullying on a school ground is easily explainable when you put the issue into context. If a Christian president speaks of love and understanding and peace among men, then what is he doing invading countries that mean no harm to him or his nation? A schoolyard bully or bullies seize upon these kinds of actions and use them to justify their own brand of terror. And, surely that is what a bully is - a terrorist, homegrown just like his president.

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enricopalazzo
Posted by: (Sigh) on May 19, 2008 5:11 AM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
First, can we please lose the phrase "zero tolerance"? Especially when dealing with children, this is a terrible position to take if we're striving for a better world.

To address issues of bullying, I think we should start with the smallest forms that start as early as preschool: social exclusion, name-calling, and teasing, to name a few. If kids can learn the effects of these behaviors early, they are unlikely to escalate into bigger forms of abuse. Parents can and should be teaching this, but schools can - and should - too. Many parents are not equipped themselves to recognize and correct their kids' behaviors. Yes, they may be overly involved in their children, overly competitive on their child's behalf and narcissistic, or they just might be clueless. Many of us fail to see what's right in front of us, even when we are trying to. We're only human.

Because so much harassment and bullying takes place in schools is the reason schools should address it. Learning socialization and emotional skills in groups can be powerful and effective. It strengthens our kids and thus our society.

If a child sees one image at home (overly competitive parents, a father driving with road rage, family members calling each other names and making fun of people who are not like them), wouldn't it be helpful for him to learn that there are other, more respectful ways to behave?

Learning to respect others gives people self-respect. Teaching a child to be inclusive - to invite another child into an activity, say - gives both children a chance to connect. And some kids simply are not taught to do this.

Social skills education is effective and important, and really does not take as much effort or expense as many other curricula.

We should teach this because we can.

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» RE: enricopalazzo Posted by: DaBear
Bullying is no one's fault at its core.
Posted by: Annarisse on May 19, 2008 5:29 AM   
Current rating: 4    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Kids don't bully because their parents bullied them or didn't teach them social skills. They don't bully because their teachers taught them to, or their government taught them to. They bully because they are immature human beings, who understand that social positioning is an intricate dance, but they don't yet know all the steps. So they push too hard in one area and not hard enough in another. They say nasty things because they haven't yet learned the value of the social apology or other techniques for smoothing over rough situations. They believe passionately in fairness, but they don't know how to get it. The very last reason is copycatting, and that happens whether or not there are better examples to hand.

As for it getting worse - I disagree. I think it's being reported much more, and the internet allows it to be spread about in ways that were never before possible, but in our schools, on the ground, it's no worse than it ever was, and in many cases it's better. Kids know now that they can report the bullying. They know what is bullying and what is not. But I don't see the depth of bullying in my school and classroom the way it happened to me two decades ago.

This article was sensationalist, short on any actual information (such as quotes or stats from real studies) and unhelpful in any meaningful way.

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» so you're psychic? Posted by: e rice
Bullying Is Caused By Foreign Policy? What The Hell?
Posted by: gigantor21 on May 19, 2008 5:35 AM   
Current rating: 4    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Why are so many commenters relating foreign policy to the actions of children?

How many kids watch/read the news regularly? Or even care about the news? In my school experience, most were more interested in music, games and the opposite sex than politics. Before college, only a small percentage followed current events, none of them were bullies, and I haven't known any who believed in the current occupation anyway.

During the formative years, kids are most influenced by those around them--parents, friends, teachers, siblings, peers. Not politicians. In the first place, I don't see how foreign policy applies when so many people can't stand the war--and these incidents aren't just happening in highly conservative areas.

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» RE: how many ADULTS Posted by: grn1
Terrytom needs data
Posted by: terryton on May 19, 2008 5:45 AM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Interesting article yet it too is mostly the, “ain’t it awful” game. The author writes of programs of success, please tell me where to learn of these. I was trained to ask where are your facts?
In reading many of the comments the general advice seems to be to fight back, more violence after the initial violence. Seems wrong on its face. My own experience as a young person of 7-10 is that I learned to escalate or retaliate in the extreme and picking on me stopped at once. There was a great danger in that as I had to be careful not to use it for other than defense. I became a dysfunctional adult, my late mother, bless her tortured soul, used to whip me nearly every day for any infraction real or imagined. That taught me aggression. She died when I was 13, an alcohol related death. At 9 I stood up to her, protecting my 4-year younger brother. I understood how these experiences affected me and never had any children so as not to carry this forward. Professionally diagnosed I was very angry yet I never struck the first blow. I could however, with words get most to swing on me within a minute, with disastrous results for them. How sick was that?
Today I’m much better, much older; nearly 69,and I’ve worked hard on overcoming these character defects. I do this through a spiritual journey including a study of eastern Religious Philosophy a good AA program and blessings to many to list. I have never accepted war as a solution to any problem. I am not a pacifist and I don’t believe in gun control. It is sometimes necessary to defend oneself. Our present war is criminal and those responsible for it should be punished in the extreme. So where are the facts on how to become a peaceful person at an early age with so many examples to the contrary?

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» RE: Terrytom needs data Posted by: bloominblacksheep
» RE: Terrytom needs data Posted by: Zoe's
Blatant advertising. BOLLOCKS.
Posted by: Vaxalon2 on May 19, 2008 5:50 AM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Gee. A call for teaching social skills, from someone who sells a product teaching social skills.

Forgive me if I'm skeptical.

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» Absolution Posted by: just john
bullies are cowards
Posted by: rfgtile on May 19, 2008 5:57 AM   
Current rating: 3    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
I have rarely seen a bully that was not a coward. Look at the postings surrounding this political campaign and the awful things that people say while hiding behind their computer. Sometines I think that a goodly percentage of our populace are nothing but a case of arrested develoment.

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» RE: bullies are cowards Posted by: fred_53_99
» RE: bullies are cowards Posted by: sirios
» RE: bullies are cowards Posted by: (Sigh)
it's in the air
Posted by: Asses of Evil on May 19, 2008 6:16 AM   
Current rating: 1    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Look at who our leaders are. I'm not saying George Bush is directly responsible for xxxxx child in xxx state doing xxxxx. But that sort of leadership has a trickle-down effect. We have state, local leaders doing the same thing. Messages are sent and kids pick up on these messages. It's in the air in America these days.

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MD Wholistic Psychotherapist
Posted by: DJBMD on May 19, 2008 6:37 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Good article, pointing out the need for social skills to deal with bullying proactively.

Additional resource: Self-calming techniques that release anxieties, fears, frustrations, angers, emotional and physical pains.

See for instance WHEE: Whole Health - Easily and Effectively
www.WholisticHealingResearch.com/wheearticles.html

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High School Teacher
Posted by: omnibozo on May 19, 2008 6:48 AM   
Current rating: 3    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Sure, let's teach an anti-bullying curriculum... along with all the other stuff we are supposed to do in class... wait... will this be on the test? If not, the kids are smart enough to blow it off and save their energy for something that will be on the multiple guess test.

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» RE: High School Teacher Posted by: WyrdSister
» Hostility and assumptions Posted by: (Sigh)
How did this article get into the "Environment" section?
Posted by: AsteroidMiner on May 19, 2008 6:54 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Shouldn't it be under "Rights and liberties"?
As in the right to not be assaulted and battered?

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prof
Posted by: prof on May 19, 2008 7:16 AM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
This article is little more than a web-mercial veiled as a report; it is a marketing tool for the authors' own product. Statistically speaking, bullying and school violence are NOT on the rise. As egregious as the recent incidents are, they should not be used as hype to sell one's own products.

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Bullies have been around forever
Posted by: Ruby on May 19, 2008 7:19 AM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
New theories are not required to explain bullying. Bullies are unhappy, miserable and immature people--not just kids--who take out their misery on others. It's always been that way.

The bullies (kids) I know are not coddled by their parents, but pushed and berated by them. They treat others the way they are treated (or perceive they are treated). The adult bullies have never learned proper respect because it's not shown to them--and they never grow up.

The key, in my view, is to help the bullies in order to neutralize their anger/unhappiness. It is not sufficient to leave it to the victims of bullying to learn how to stand up for themselves.

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I question that a real increase is happening.
Posted by: just john on May 19, 2008 7:35 AM   
Current rating: 4    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
I question that a real increase is happening. I suspect it's just more visible.

That said, I do agree that it's a problem that needs to be dealt with. It always has been.

And I have no idea what would be effective.

But thanks for the reminder. As I enter middle age, I still remember the names of many of my bullies, and now you've made me realize I'm in a good position to take revenge on any surviving ones.

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mzunguhowru
Posted by: muzunguhowru on May 19, 2008 7:47 AM   
Current rating: 3    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Epidemic???? Puhleeze... There are no more bullies now than there ever where.

Just because little Jason/Justin/Jared the designer child has been emasculated before he went to school does not make things any more or dangerous than they ever were. Hierarchical Juvenile troop behavior among boys is natural and unavoidable and timeless. Some boys will dominate. Thats how it is. Teaching a boy (or girl)to defend oneself and roll with the punches when one loses is part of normal growing up. Adults should only intervene when it gets excessive or the age/power differential is to great. Other wise let em be. Its something we don't let kids do much of any more along with something we used to call "play" (not to be confused with "play dates") which in addition to providing opportunities for the troop to sort itself out and natural friendships and bonds to form (not the friends mommy chooses) helped dissipate energy and aggression. Epidemic..hardly even the occasionally brutal stuff has been there all along.

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Phindrup has it RIGHT!!
Posted by: AMERICAN VETERAN on May 19, 2008 8:01 AM   
Current rating: 3    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
I also went to school in the 40's.
Life in/after school was much the same for me as it was for him.

One day I came home crying and my Dad asked me about it.
I told him that the neighborhood bully had hit me, etc.
This bully was also a neighbor who lived just a few doors away and was always around.
My Dad gave me the best advice I ever received about being bullied.
He asked me whether I did anything to defend myself and I said no because I was afraid of the bully.
We had a long talk about it and, my Dad convinced me of the way to take care of this in the REAL WORLD.
He told me to defend myself the next time and, even though I was scared, I took the chance.
IT WORKED!!
The bully never ever picked on me again and, when some of my friends who were there began to spread the good news, the bully knew that he and his attutude were defeated.
He didn't pick on anyone anymore.
This was in kindergarten in 1945.

Now, here is something for you bleeding hearts to attempt to understand.
Even though I had a new found power which I learned from this experience, I did NOT become a bully myself.
What I learned from it was that it was up to me to take whatever action was necessary for myself and that assertiveness is good.

This "social edcation" BS is just that~~BS.

I did not become a bully and did begin to feel safe and comfortable in my skin after I learned this lesson.

If I had continued to tolerate the bullying, I may have ended up as one of those who acted out his frustrations.
My life has been good as, I learned many many other life lessons from that which happened some 60+ years ago.
One of the very best things which I found through this was self confidence.

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» RE: Phindrup has it RIGHT!! Posted by: VZEQICVA
» RE: Phindrup has it RIGHT!! Posted by: jareilly
What a bully is
Posted by: fred_53_99 on May 19, 2008 8:07 AM   
Current rating: 1    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
A bully is a person or society that thinks it can get it's way by violence upon a weaker person. The bully is not a warrior. The bully is not willing to risk physical harm or pay any price for his habit;the warrior is. So the bully uses what he knows to work, superior power. But when it cost the bully something, most often a peice of his ass , he stops. The modern school bully uses the gourp to help him in the beat down becuse he fears going one on one with even the weakest child. My solution is this ; social skills programs yes but for the bully who might even be a little or big nut case physical power(fight back). One does not have to win ,only make it plain that whatever the bully does it is going to cost his cowardly ass something. If it's a mater of a group of bulllies( often boys raised by single mothers) get help(teachers adminstratior, parents ,police) do not face this mob alone. I know I seem sort of rightwing, non polically correct but sometimes force must be confronted. Ask the folks of Iraq.

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» RE: What a bully is Posted by: thealltheone
» RE: What a bully is Posted by: fred_53_99
» RE: What a bully is Posted by: DaBear
» RE: What a bully is Posted by: DaBear
VIOLENCE AND HURTFUL SPEECH ARE EVERYWHERE VISIBLE
Posted by: pushing50 on May 19, 2008 8:08 AM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
My kids attend one of the most venerable Quaker schools in the country. Even in this supposed haven of peacemaking, there is a level of nastiness that I would have been shocked to observe in the bitchy Manhattan girls school I went to in the 60's (think Mean Girls, and you will almost have the school address correctly).

The newest bit of nastiness is a humiliating put-down technique wreaked on anyone who answers a question incorrectly. At the start of the year, this was called "schooling", a term that I surmise comes from rap or hip-hop, and one which has deeply disturbing overtones for anyone who values education. Associating schooling, something that many people in this country were deprived of based on race or religion or ethnic group, with something so profoundly negative seems really counterproductive.

When discouraged from using this nasty term, the kids came up with a perhaps even worse form of torment and discouragement of intellectual risk taking; a wallop to the back of the head, called a "dip". While I admire the creativity of these 10 year olds, I deplore this intrusion of a violent behavior into the classroom.

Now, where did they get these appalling ideas? All I have to do is surf through the basic tv network and cable line-up to hear and see similar behaviors not only allowed but focused on with intimate and loving camera work, to the thunderous applause of live audiences. The kids see this around them and they do likewise. We are responsible, because we have given the TV industry feedback that says, "put trashy bullying lanquage, and violent behavior on-screen, and we will make it worth your while!"

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Alice
Posted by: AliceLand on May 19, 2008 8:10 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Another useless article! "Tut, tut, we have to start doing something", (hand wring in the background). *Of course* we have to do something! Everyone knows that. But did this article give even one suggestion?

All the kids involved in the beat up of the teenage girl with video should be EXPELLED forever, and put in jail. But do you think that is going to happen? We have zero tolerance for non-problems (kids hugging teachers and saying "Hugs, not Drugs" get suspended for sexual harassment), while we have wishy-washy punishment and allow some wrong-doers to go free because they were only on-lookers, or whatever nonsense-reason, for real problems. Kids who would beat up a person with video are not going to be "taught" some other way to handle their feelings. Society can not be worried about their feelings. They are wild animals, and belong in a cage. And, their parents should be forced to pay restitution to the victim.

I, for one, would not have my children in the public schools on a bet!!

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» RE: Alice Posted by: DaBear
momfromhell
Posted by: athurlow on May 19, 2008 8:13 AM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Bullying is about power!! Bullies degrade and humiliate others simply to show that they can (and that, presumably, it amuses them to do so). Schools (and communities) enable bullying by communicating that certain groups or individuals are unworthy of protection, and may be considered "fair game." The lone misfit is often demonized, and will be blamed when he or she confronts the "pack." Bullies are the schoolyard equivalent of paramilitary groups, in enforcing the lockstep conformity that authorities desire (while maintaining official pronunciations in support of diversity and tolerance). Packaged anti-bullying and "character ed" programs are as meaningless as Denny's anti-discrimination posters, when school officials are tacitly empowering the bullying every day.

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MORE BULLIES OR MORE VICTIMS?
Posted by: VZEQICVA on May 19, 2008 8:15 AM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
We are all encouraged to "deal with" person-
alities that are disagreeable in varying degrees. Countless forms of agressive and unplesant behavior must be 'understood'. It starts pre-school and goes through to the job.
We aren't allowed to criticize any form of behavior that is offensive. Just suck it up. Volumes are written on tolerance and none on what to do when you realize that you're obnoxious. Thanks, ANNA

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placate the brats
Posted by: sirios on May 19, 2008 8:30 AM   
Current rating: 4    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Ok,well here i go again. the core issue,problem, for me is the me, the I, the ego, as" it " is believed to be all that there is to life. That said and most likely misunderstood, Bullying,individually, nationally and internationally, sadly seems to be a natural phenomenon , probably having it's roots in fear ie: a preemtive strike affords an illusion of safety for the perpetrator,sound familiar. i lived in germany for eight years and i can report to you that the childeren of german famlies are NOT the center of attention,endlessly doted on and given something ,[a toy,a tv etc.] to placate them when throwing a tantrum, as in this country. we are a nation of brats who teach our childeren that watching violent tv ,playing violent video games, giggleing when young boys play with toy guns while remarking "how cute" etc. etc., is ok. Watching agressive video games has no emotional or physical consequences. So, if one is bullied at school and the response is an assault with real weapons it might seem appropriate to the young mind, because there will be no consequences.As usual i have probably oversimplified and will attract the verbal bullies on Alternet. well ,"bring it on you pussies" . the puritans are still alive and "kicking", sex is bad, violence is ok, as long as it is sanctioned by God.

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» i mostly agree Posted by: e rice
» RE: placate the brats Posted by: jareilly
» RE: placate the brats Posted by: sirios
» RE: placate the brats Posted by: DaBear
» RE: placate the brats Posted by: sirios
Nothing New
Posted by: hemingway00 on May 19, 2008 8:32 AM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
When I was in school, the "jocks" always bullied the "nerds". I was one of those nerds, the ones that actually studied and wanted to make their school experience meaningful. Their treatment of us was relentless, cruel and sometimes physical. The sad thing is that the teachers thought it was funny, and did absolutely nothing to stop it.

People think that bullying is alright, but retaliation is wrong. These must be the same kind of people, like one of our star athletes, who teased a physically-disabled student so much that when he died a short time after high school, he was crushed.

Retaliation isn't anything new at all. In the early 70's, I had a detailed plan to pay the bullies back that involved the entire school. It required very little in resources and implementation, and would have made all to date pale in comparison. I was never pushed to that point, but I can sure see how someone might be.

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» RE: Nothing New Posted by: grn1
» RE: Nothing New Posted by: truthteller
There have always been bullies
Posted by: LeeAnnG on May 19, 2008 8:38 AM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
I have talked to countless people about their school experiences, and many, many of these acquaintances have been the victims of bullies. For example, my 34 year old son was consistently made fun of because he liked to read on the school bus. Lots of women have told me they were the victims of nasty campaigns to destroy their reputations and paint them as "sluts." Kids have always been afraid to go to school because they were being picked on.

I'm 60 years old, so my school days date back to the 1950s. My 7th grade year was the year from hell. One of the boys in my class, rather randomly, selected me as a target, and the entire year was spent dodging his insults and ridicule. He was very popular, so he got the rest of the class - mostly boys - to pick on me, too.

There was no physical violence, but the dread I felt about going to school every day was very real. It's hard to imagine that, as overt as it was, the adults at my school were unaware of the situation, but they chose to ignore it. I was a very shy, quiet child, and had no experience with this kind of verbal or emotional abuse and no idea of how to cope with it except to ignore it and hope the next year was better.

Fortunately, I was in a class with a completely different group in 8th grade, and the bullying stopped. But having been subjected to it, I was more shy and withdrawn than ever. There is no upside or "learning to cope" with most kids who are victimized.

Here in Wood County, WV, (and in all of West Virginia, at least in the state-wide school code), bullying is not tolerated. As a contrast to what I experienced, not very long ago, I was present (because of the nature of my job) when a 7th grade girl was brought to the office of a junior high school. The principal had heard that she was being bullied, and he wanted to assure her that the boys responsible would be stopped because he knew she could not enjoy school under these conditions.

I know there are parents and other adults who believe children need to learn to defend themselves and find ways to deal with adversity. But school is already, in many ways, not the most pleasant place to be. Why should kids be forced to cope with bullies along with the rest of the restrictions in places (schools) where basic human rights are often left at the door when they enter?

It's a common refrain that school violence is worse, that school isn't like it used to be, that kids are no longer learning like they used to. My experience is that school "ain't like it used to be and it never was," to quote (I believe) Mark Twain. Most of what I learned academically, was from reading I did on my own. Like many kids, I sat in a chair all day and either did busy work or listened to the same tired lectures.

I have a family member who homeschooled his child. He said that, until about 5th grade, it took about 15 minutes a day to teach what public schools take 7 or 8 hours to cover. After that it took maybe an hour. Our schools, for many reasons, are failing.

Maybe if there were more real subject matter for kids to learn (relieving boredom), and if the atmosphere were less restrictive (rather than increasingly more so), and if the attitude of "might makes right" were not so pervasive in our culture, schools might not be the center of so much resentment, pent up violence, and acting out.

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» RE: There have always been bullies Posted by: marie.vorrath
Some just do not get it!
Posted by: The Big Raven on May 19, 2008 8:40 AM   
Current rating: 3    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Look people when you live in a world that promotes violence as a solution to problems you will promote bulling. This land is based on it LOOK at what you have done to my peoples and thier wonderfull gifts! And then you take your rose colored glasses and lie and WE all know it! america is the land of the bully oportunistic w.a.s.p.s. that have made this a society of steal and take.

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» RE: Some just do not get it! Posted by: hemingway00
bully's have parents who are bully's
Posted by: thealltheone on May 19, 2008 8:48 AM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
In elementary school they had a program that helped, but as soon as middle school starts, the kids form packs. Puberty is tough enough. Most always, the main bully has a bully for a parent. I had to take my son out of a certain school that would not help the situation and put him into a charter school where he could focus on education and not whether or not to commit suicide. I tried everything to get the bulling to stop at the first school, which had a no tolerance rule, but did not help. They can not be there all the time or see what is going on. Schools are just too big. I spoke with the main bully's parent and he was a bully himself. NO doubt about it. That is when I knew we could not win. Not that my son was or is gay in any way, this bully thought so and was spreading it all over the entire school, having other kids popping out of no where, giving my son sucker punches in the hallways,etc. and his homophobic father from First Baptist that had no qualms about yelling at a women on the phone, urged him on and did not care. He thought it was funny. My son took Karate for years. It did not matter, they broke him down mentally. Middle School is where these programs need to be, before High School, when they are first finding out their own sexual orientation, and entering sports for the first time. I think it would be a great help. The first school he was taken out of, had a strict dress code, took the "no kid left behind act" very seriously, was predomatly republican, first baptist, sports orientated, and or you have to be part of the FFA. to attend in order to fit in. He was accepted into an honor school for the arts with no dress code and has blossomed ever since. He is now graduating with honors,been seeing a wonderful girl for two years who plans on being a doctor, enrolling into a Community College and never had to fight anyone to do it.

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RE: disengaged parents
Posted by: just john on May 19, 2008 9:24 AM   
Current rating: 1    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
As a middle-aged man who intends never to reproduce, I strongly support the notion of requiring licenses before people can become parents.

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RE: disengaged parents
Posted by: pushing50 on May 19, 2008 11:22 AM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
I respectfully disagree - we two are very engaged parents, and our gentle child, taught from birth to be considerate of others, does not stand a chance in the face of the present glorification of toughness and rough language and behavior. Children are not civilized - and although I deplore the current absence of many parents from their children's lives (due to hideous work schedules for the most part), just being an involved parent does not protect a child from harassment. Non-family caregivers may be wonderful, or they may be heedless and self-serving, and when a child is spending most hours with non-family, the parents have little influence, I have observed. I agree that a child growing up without parental involvement may indeed take out their frustrations on handy targets and become bullies, but I do not observe that kids with loving, engaged families have any better luck at avoiding being bullied and tormented.

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RE: disengaged parents????
Posted by: thealltheone on May 19, 2008 12:24 PM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
you obviously do not have kids? We are not disengaged parents. We are very close to our son and know what he is doing at all times, and what is in his head. My son was well adjusted, could talk to and make freinds with anyone until Middle school bullying. He is fine now, but for three years, he became an introverted suicidal person worn down by bully's. The parents of the bully's are not disengaged either. they attend football games and urge thier sons on. Loutish domineering violent kids who bully others have parents that are the same way! I taught my son to stand up for himself, but when it gets out of hand, I had to step in against his wishes, for it gets worse if you do. I took it up with the parents when the school was not stopping it and found out the parents are the same way! Solution; took him out of THAT school and put him in one that was not sports oriented, but focused on education.

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» RE: disengaged parents???? Posted by: LeeAnnG
Wrong
Posted by: LeeAnnG on May 19, 2008 12:51 PM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
I was bullied as a child (see my post above), and it was most certainly not due to disengaged parents! My parents were devoted to their children, taking us to museums, the opera, and all kinds of cultural events; playing baseball, basketball, board games, and cards with us on a regular basis; reading to us and encouraging us to read; and most of all, supporting our creativity and self-expression.

We were taught to stand up for what we believe in and to have compassion for others. None of that prepared me for a year of ridicule and insults when I was in 7th grade. The notion that being engaged with your children and teaching them to have integrity is some kind of protective shield is absurd.

Bullies don't care if your parents love you, if you have received guidance and moral inspiration from them, or if you are inherently shy or "nervous." Lots of kids with devoted parents are still shy, quiet types who attract the attention of other kids who like to bully.

So if you aren't able to ensure that your kids have personalities that stave off abuse from other kids, don't have them! Holy cow! What a simplistic, narrow, and unsympathetic view this is!

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Empathy
Posted by: curiousdwk on May 19, 2008 9:50 AM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
We all should assume the value the we should always be teaching/learning empathy. Empathy is to understand what and why a person thinks and feels the way(s) that they do. It is a skill in the toolbox of inter-personal intelligence. It is a skill which can and should be taught in school. And also at home and at work.

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» Empathy for bullies Posted by: Artkansas
» RE: mpathy Posted by: thealltheone
Teach your kids to fight, people
Posted by: hurricane hugo on May 19, 2008 9:57 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
My dad did, and whenever a bully confronted me, said bully only did it once.

jdfu!

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» RE: Teach your kids to fight, people Posted by: thealltheone
it gets you ahead in this country
Posted by: zooeyhall on May 19, 2008 10:01 AM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Being a bully and an asshole gets you ahead in this country! I mean, look at any CEO or upper managment person. They are rewarded for being aggressive and mean! They end up being on the cover of Forbes or Fortune. They are rewarded for being bullies.

Just look at any help wanted ad for an upper level manager or CEO: words like "aggressive" "positive action" "drive" "forcefull" "willing to take the hard line" permeate these ads.

They sure aren't looking for a nice guy.

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I experinced school bullying first hand. Part 1
Posted by: Jkid4x on May 19, 2008 10:15 AM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Beginning at the 7th grade I went through three years of hell. The 7th grade, it was because I wore a Pikachu bookbag, and in the 8th grade because I had a speech impediment where I accidentally told my peers that my age was 14 while I was actually 13 while at P.E. and it followed me in the 9th grade even though I changed schools.

I was being called 'pikachu', '14', and 'shriek' (because I did not like the film while at the last year of elementary school) based on what I wore, what I said, and what I did not like, by almost HALF the entire school. I was even harassed to get the Xbox (the original) because I told them I disliked the controller.
I keep reporting it to the administration. Yet they told me to ignore it, it will go away. How can you ignore name calling by HALF the entire school? You can't The school administrators and teachers knew about it, but they did not want to deal with me. I was not able to get any good grades at all save for one class. It showed that I could not conform to their social norm and thus already became an social pariah.

I tried standing up for myself when it escalated to physical assault at my first high school, but how you can fight against a group of people that is pulling you from the bathroom just to hide from these bastards. They pulled me from the bathroom with my pants and underwear down, threw me outside the bathroom hall to where everyone was watching. They just simply watched me naked.

They did not even got caught, and as for me, they offered me a senior mentor to escort me to and from classes. But my mom knew that I had enough and pulled me from the school for almost two weeks. I basically stayed in my room for those two weeks.

While I transferred to the other school, the same thing happened. I eventually had enough, and still I was the one getting the blame. My mere existence is what driven the teen brats to harass me.

In the end, it did not go away, it kept escalating. I ended up getting two suspensions: one for fighting back and as a result of everyone touching me and threading another columbine (i said by another person.) at that point I did not care. I had thoughts of suicide, and when I got out the 9th grade I did not wanted to attend any kind of high school.

But I did attend another high school, but a non-public one in Baltimore, where I did enjoyed my three years there. There was absolutely no bullying or harassment because they took such incidents very seriously.

The main reason I harassed out of public school is for one primary reason. I have asperger syndrome, and one of the traits is that they have little interest in fads or trends. My Pikachu bookbag was not in current trend at all, in middle school it was kids stuff. Also I had not pleasure of buying another bookbag where my current one can do. But I did got another bookbag, but they still call me ‘pikachu’. Also because of even though I was a social pariah right out the bat, I would not be able to make any friends at all, I’m naturally introverted and smarter than the average high school airhead or student due to my asperger’s. That would also explain my dislike for the Xbox because of my research online, while my peers still bought an Xbox (I eventually bought one just to shut them up, even though I had no desire for one, my PS2 suited me fine), and for the 1st shriek film.

As for the ‘14’ it was a mistake, I really meant to say 13 as my age during middle school.

I did not have any friends in most of the school year until the 10th grade. I had plenty of friends online and I always escape there every chance I get during my three years of hell. I never went to any after-school activities at high school at all.

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I experinced school bullying first hand. Part 2
Posted by: Jkid4x on May 19, 2008 10:21 AM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
But by the time I dropped out of the public school system and got into a non-public school, the damage was already done. I was a happy child before the 7th grade and the harassment transformed me into a pessimist teenager (even today I’m 19 I still a pessimist), who rarely smiles. I don’t truly trust people anymore. Yet I managed to get into college, far away from these idiots who made my life a living hell for three years. The scars from the years of harassment are there.

The main reason why bullying exists is because of intolerance of difference. People who can’t, refuse, unable to conform due to any reason: such as race, gender, sexual orientation, social interest, skin color, class, disability, etc are targets.

Many victims of bullying are artistic, imaginative, creative, academically above average, different (although this is a relative term), caring and empathic, easily forgiving, high integrity, high moral standard, unwilling to resort to lying and deception, often independent, self-reliant, has good relationships with adults, not powerful and eschews classroom politics. (read: nerds, geeks, boys not interested in sports, academic-centric types)

Those who bully and harass are aggressive, physically strong, easily and willingly resorts to violence, uninterested in academics, insecure, may have a dysfunctional home life, thrives on control and dominance, thinks it fun to torment and hurt children who are less physically strong, cowardly, exhibits attention-seeking behaviour and needs to be respected but can't distinguish between "respect" and "fear", needs to impress, disrespectful and often contemptuous of others (both children and adults), emotionally and behaviourally immature, jealous and envious, divisive and dysfunctional, disruptive, academically below average, often lies, cannot and will not accept responsibility, uncaring, lacks empathy, exploitative. (read: jocks, preps, queen bees, airheads)

Many of the bullies I had to face where teens who did not like me because I wore a kids bookbag at middle school two years ago while they were wearing more expensive bookbag, because I did not liked a movie, and for a speech impairment. The ringleaders are those who are popular or come from well-to-do families or from the dominant culture of the school. It’s essentially a tool of conformity. As this is especially prevalent in high school (which compared to prison, with cliques as gangs, principals as wardens, and teachers as guards) are no different. Many reasons why people, like me, and people who are more interest in academics (such as geeks, nerds, and others) are harassed is because of their social status, as those who are popular concentrate on popularity than academics. (It’s just like the job market, you have to more social than academic).

Most schools to this day, even with anti-bullying policies and anti-bullying laws, still do not take bullying seriously, primary because of the “boy code”, gender roles, and social status of the students (jocks, and preps). Apparently, even with successful lawsuits in school bullying cases, they still won’t learn, until they lose a lot of money. Because of the “cover your ass” mentality, schools will not admit school bullying until it’s too late: covering it up, blaming the victim, etc.

Thus the only option victims of school bullying are as follows: fight back (which will almost guarantee in school expulsion by zero intelligence polices), suicide, or school dropout (or school transfer. However, referring to alternative education options, such as the GED is not mentioned to the student or parent, because the school fears of losing their hard earned bucks from their property taxes.) Also there is the Columbine option (If you know what I mean.)

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I experinced school bullying first hand. Part 3
Posted by: Jkid4x on May 19, 2008 10:23 AM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
And many of the school bullying incidents are easily preventable. And physical bullying and sexual bullying at school are considered crimes when committed outside of school (like assault, sexual assault, harassment)! So school principals can summon the police if they know the preps and the police can arrest them.
So here is my proposal to eliminate and prevent bullying:

1.Human Diversity classes: to encourage understanding between humans regardless of cultural, ethnic, gender, sexual orientation, disability, or any subculture differences
2.Automatic reporting to parents if student is being bullied or one or more students is bullying.
3.For serious cases of bullying (assault, persistent harassment, hate crimes, theft, inflicting bodily harm) the school has to call the police
4.If the school derelicts it’s duty to prevent bullying, charge the principal and the responsible teachers with child abuse.
5.If the school refuses to do so because of such dereliction of duty, have the bullied child be exempt from compulsory attendance and education laws, the parents will be still have to provide a plan for their children’s education and the child would be able to recover and can resume education when he or she is ready. (I would call it the straight to college clause, because if the child resumes education and is able to handle college level work, he or she can attend a community college to start his college education, or even better, can resume school under a community college setting)
6.Give teens an escape valve if they are unable or unable to fit into the social structure of high school, inform them of a GED or high school equivalency diploma, move into community college setting to continue high school, unschooling.

These six pointers would be able to prevent bullying. The geeks, nerds, and aspies who are more into academics can go their own way if they choose, while the preps and jocks can stay in high school and waste their time socializing and such.

If I knew there was something called unschooling or was able to attend community college earlier I would simply drop out and continue my education either way.

As for those who harassed me, I hope for the worst for them. I hope these people who would wasted their time harassing me (that I really absolutely did nothing to them) and socializing instead of concentrating on their education, become teenage fathers, get a dead-end job (which is not likely, even though I’m not likely to get a job in the so called “job market” because your “social skills” matter than academic achievements, but I’ll be well-off once I publish my currently planned book.), in jail, and croak and die.

Don’t tell me to “get over it”…why tell me how. And if you are not willing to and even if tell me how, how can I forget the bullying I suffered for the 7th and 9th grade.

Don’t tell me that I ought to fight back … it did not helped me at all and got suspended twice.

Don’t tell me that I should have ignored it… it was half the entire school that harassed me and the school administrators only care about their high school sports reputation.

You probably never attended middle school in the early 21th century and that advice would have worked when you attended school in the 20th century. You have never experienced the bullying I had to go through.

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I experinced school bullying first hand. Parting words
Posted by: Jkid4x on May 19, 2008 10:23 AM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
One parting word:
If you have children, teens, or children with Asperger syndrome: If your child is being bullied and harassed, and telling the school administrators won’t help, and if your child suffering, pull him out of school immediately! Don’t transfer him to another school. Press charges against the teenage brats that harassed your child, sue the school (and if you can sue them so much that they’ll think you opened your own law office next to the school). Homeschool, allow the teen to unschool himself or get the GED, or allow him to continue his high school education in community college.

If the school administration refuses to protect children under the concept of In loco parentis, you have got to do it yourself.

Here are two great links about school bullying

Bullyonline (UK-centric): http://www.bullyoffline.org/schoolbully/child.htm

Peer abuse: http://www.childadvocate.org/3_peer.htm

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» RE: Good point! Posted by: Jkid4x
» RE: Good point! Posted by: benzene
» RE: Good point! Posted by: wagadog
Compulsory Education
Posted by: scenery on May 19, 2008 10:28 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
compulsory means forced

Force a bunch of kids to go to school with the help of few (maybe not even very kind-hearted) adults, and you have a recipe for a totalitarian power structure. It is a kind of training for living an institutionalized life - - either the prison or the factory or the military...


People who are privileged intellectually will have the skills to rise above this mentality and will reject school or make it work for them -- perhaps they look like the quiet ones, or the nerds, or the rebels, or the potheads, or they love sports, or they actually take advantage of what the school offers -- they will survive the experience. The kids who do not have coping mechanisms will be traumatized by it and some of them may choose to bully others as a reaction to being forced to go to school. It is an unnatural environment.

Some privileged people will seek out alternate methods of fulfilling the states compulsory ed requirement either through home-schooling or other alternatives such as sudbury model.

Our societal structure IS the problem. Our global structure IS the problem. We live in a paradigm of dominance rather than cooperation.

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It's not just the weak that get bullied
Posted by: ReallyBearish on May 19, 2008 10:29 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
It isn’t only the weak that get bullied. An associate of mine had a son who was a 2nd degree black belt and weighed 240 pounds. He was also a science honor student with a full scholarship to a local university.

In high school he was regularly targeted by a smaller student who delighted in slamming him into a wall or locker when he wasn’t looking. Complaints to the principal went unheeded because “nobody witnessed the act”. Finally, he had enough and after being slammed against the wall one more time he turned and blasted the kid. Since the school had a “zero tolerance” policy, the retaliation had to be punished. My associate would not tolerate any crap from the principle’s office that did nothing about events leading up to the punch out, and asked if the event had been “witnessed”. If not, then the act had to be ignored, just like the previous ones. After all, the kid could have punched himself in the nose or walked into a door. The punishment ended up being a one-day suspension.

My take is that teachers and administrators as a group are complete losers when it comes to dealing with bullies. Their idea is to follow some “formula” based on rigid rules, if they do anything at all. Common sense is out of the question.

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» administrators Posted by: e rice
Bullying, not an epidemic
Posted by: Artkansas on May 19, 2008 11:02 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Bullying is not to be condoned. At the same time, the only thing new here is camera phones and youtube.

I had to battle bullies when I was in Jr. High school. I also remember hearing acquaintances telling of holding a boy off the top of the school (4 stories high) to shake him down for his money.

What I learned was that you don't have to win a fight against bullies to make them stop, just make it painful to get a victory. I also learned proper use of parents and principals.

Kids need training in how to deal with bullies of course. My parents made sure that I took classes in judo and at camp I learned wrestling. Which is not to say that I didn't come home with a few black eyes. Neither did I come home intimidated.

And schools need to deal with bullies, for their own sake.

But I'm not sure that I would be yelling "Epidemic" in such a panicky voice as the author.

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I've been bullied
Posted by: Ayla87 on May 19, 2008 11:21 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
When I was 6 a much older boy either hit me or spit on me, I don't remember which. What I do remember is my then 20 year old sister climbing on the bus with me and my 10 year old sister the next day, and ripping this kid a new one. I never had another problem while at that school.

When I was 12, some punk who went to my sisters highschool was harrassing the both of us. This time I remember being spit on. So one day when our older sister was over, our cousin took this kid for a ride to our house with a few of his friends. They both dragged him out of the car, and made him get on his knees and apologise to the both of us. He never gave us trouble again.

While in highschool, I for the most part kept to myself. But I did have a few run ins with other girls. These usually ended the moment they realized I wasn't afraid of them.

The moral of the story: Teach your kids to not take crap, and they won't be bullied to the point of feeling homicidal. And in retrospect, I know that what my cousin did to that boy was extreme. But it was effective...

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marie in tx
Posted by: marie.vorrath on May 19, 2008 11:25 AM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
I am disappointed in the comments here, who doesn't know someone who was bullied, some very, very seriously. There should be ZERO tolerance starting at the kindergarten level. Everyone is harmed by bullying and if its stopped at the lowest levels in school maybe it won't show up in our presidents.
I figure GW bullied his younger brothers. Barbara wouldn't have cared.
Bullying needs to be stopped. Almost all of the school shooters had been bullied. What might of happened if this had been stopped?????

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Purple hands project!
Posted by: messedup on May 19, 2008 2:30 PM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
http://www.handsproject.org/home.html

Excellent project, should be mandatory.

I will not use my hands or my words for hurting myself or others.

I've studied bullying quite a bit myself, it's all about putting yourself in others shoes. Hard to believe people cannot understand such a simple thing.

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Bring back the Paddle!!!
Posted by: perkywa on May 19, 2008 2:41 PM   
Current rating: 4    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Teachers were neutered and all their authority was taken away 40 plus years ago when they were no longer allowed to confront bullies with real consequences. This is just part of a wider problem in schools and the whole idea of forced government "education" designed to destroy families and to train good consumers with zero respect for anything, least of all themselves.

If you really want to know what forced government education is truly about please READ John Taylor Gatto's The Underground History of American Education then get your kids OUT of the government "education" system and teach them to read and do math at home where George Washington, Benjamin Franklin, Thomas Jefferson, Abraham Lincoln and Thomas Edison (plus all of the other Founders and luminaries before forced "education") were "educated".

Here's a shocking statistic...inductees in WWI (before forced "schooling") had a 98.5% literacy rate (they ALL could READ) by Vietnam (after two generations of forced "schooling") inductees had a 74% literacy rate! What does that tell you about the purpose of government "schooling"?

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Lack of discpline and Poor schools without power
Posted by: Smartcookie on May 19, 2008 3:41 PM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
The truth is schools do not have the power to discpline unruly kids, bullies should be able to be docked marks and held back a grade, and if worse comes to worse: Jail or community service.

I've learned over the many years that compassion is only for those who deserve it, many people are compassionate to the point where they would destroy society trying to make the unruly child/teen seen as the victim, the truth is their is a dangerouss lack of responsibility at all levels of society, and it all comes back to the miserable existence and the structure of the economy.

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Generation of vipers
Posted by: macdon1 on May 19, 2008 4:26 PM   
Current rating: 1    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
O generation of vipers, how can ye, being evil, speak good things? for out of the abundance of the heart the mouth speaketh.
Matthew 12:34
For they have sown the wind, and they shall reap the whirlwind:
Hosea 8:7
These children are the products of a very sick society...ours. We are reaping what we have sown.

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You're Kidding, Right?
Posted by: LeaderofMen on May 19, 2008 5:20 PM   
Current rating: 1    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
"Even more appalling than these animalistic acts themselves seems to be the general lack of outrage about them!"

Total BS. The outrage comes mainly from the LGBT community. When it does, Christian groups cry foul and tell their 'people' that preventing bullying in public schools is tantamount to preventing their good Christian students from telling gay students that they're evil.

You know that's s fact. It's been happening all over the country. When anti-bullying statutes come into play there are hearings. Christian parents are the MOST VOCAL in their opposition. Yes, that's right. CHRISTIANS.

You all know it's true. These evil vile parents are the parents of those bullies. They hate gays so much they interject themselves into school boards and PTA meetings just to prevent anyone from stopping them. It happened right here in suburban Chicago not more than 5 years ago. Yes indeed. Christian parents making sure that LGBT students are harrassed and bullied until they have to leave the school. For good.

The people that Christianity attracts are like that - the most disgusting ones oppose all that is good for societies. This starts in the public schools and works its way into the very top levels of the Federal gov't. Don't believe me? Well, who is ministering to this vile disgusting Bush admin which believes that pre-emptive strikes and hating anyone who doesn't believe as we do is evil. That would be Christian groups.

The parallel is not lost on me. Nope. Not one bit.

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» Pay Attention Posted by: LeaderofMen
Parental Alienation.
Posted by: riotoustanpdx on May 19, 2008 5:40 PM   
Current rating: 3    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
This is an under-studied and very real cause.

Typically, a child forms a bond with a male parent through a certain age, perhaps six or eight years.

There is a divorce. The bond is broken. The boy child is often not allowed to express his deep feelings, and there is no room for re-bonding in that relationship. The boy suffers one of three degrees of alienation from his male parent, and experiences emotional abuse as a result.

The boy often turns to expressing his anger by becoming a bully, and the targets of bullying are often those who appear to have what the bully-boy does not: affection from a loving male parent.

The real bully in school is a victim of parental emotional abuse most often caused by the alienation of one parent. Ninety percent of the time the mother has caused the severe separation between the boy and his father after a bond has been established.

Girls do become bullies for the same reason.

After Parental Alienation, most children grow up to have commitment difficulties in their relationships. Know anyone like that?

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CommonDreamer
Posted by: CommonDreamer on May 19, 2008 8:06 PM   
Current rating: 1    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
I think this is probably a symbol as was said here, of the narcissistic me decades we have had to endure under right wing rule. For years now, it's been okay to cheat, lie and steal (if you're at the top) and apparently no debts are owed to society at all by the very wealthy (not with their progeny going off to war...not by paying taxes for infrastructure....not by helping others...etc.). The horrid t-shirt and bumper sticker "it's all about me" describes this era to a T. And there is little sensitivity or anything interesting in the movies, shows, etc....just empty consumerism and boring action movies without nuance. This is what society has been boiled down to by the most egregious regime ever to hold office in America. And then where are the parents? Is work more interesting than your children...I should hope not. But that's the message they get. Because we bought into corporate America's stingy time management....we all work 40 hour+ weeks now....when in reality we should be working much, much less because there are now both men and women working outside of the home...and technology did not fulfil its promise of emancipating us from more work.

We just need to get back to family values again, sensitivity again, throw out the winner take all society, and get back to being our brother's keeper as it were. When we show some kind of feelings for others...some level of sacrifice...and the morals that have been lost in the morass of greed and dumbed down consumerism that has been heaped upon us, then perhaps the children will see and follow by example. We will always have bullies...but we can have a more utopian environment if we fix this moral swampland first. Of course that will take putting in a whole new outfit in the White House (which has been more like a frat house in the last 7 years). And you don't need to wonder what examples children have been following...

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Bullying Will Stop Only When We Aggressively Change School Culture
Posted by: kestral on May 19, 2008 8:16 PM   
Current rating: 3    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Our culture values bullying, gaming the system, manipulation and cheating in order to get ahead. In many ways, the schools both mimic and magnify the overall culture's values AND give us a taste of things to come. Our culture values me-first narcissism, not pro-social, cooperative behavior. As parents, as our children's first and most important teachers, we have to teach our morals, ethics and pro-social values to our children, right from the start.

For bullying to stop, we have to create a culture that does not tolerate this behavior. We need school committees, headmasters, department chairs and teachers who are committed to creating a safe environment for our children. Our schools have to have a "No Bullying" policy. Unfortunately, bullies get away with their abusive behaviors when those around them choose not to get involved, or ignore it. For a "No Bullying" policy to be effective, we must punish those who witness bullying and who did nothing to stop it as if they were bullies. In the beginning, many, many more children will be disciplined for bullying. There will be parents who will scream bloody murder at the teacher and the school when their sweet little darling who "did nothing wrong" is punished for bullying (when their darling witnessed bullying and did nothing to stop it). Teachers who turn a blind eye to bullying need to face disciplinary action as well.

In order to have a safe school, known problem places need to be adequately supervised. While in school, all children (including teens) need to be supervised at all times. We know that cafeterias, playgrounds, bathrooms, gym locker rooms/showers and halls in between classes, busses and bus stops are problem places because adult supervision is lax to nonexistent. Some school districts have found that placing video recording equipment inside school busses and hiring a responsible adult to supervise the children does help. I'd bet that if junior high and high schools hired senior citizens or concerned parents to sit in the bathrooms while school was in session, there'd be less problems there. I'd bet that if we had retirees or parents who would be willing to help out at the school during recess and lunch time, we could make cafeterias and playgrounds safer.

As adults, we have more options when dealing with bullies or other obnoxious people. If our manager at work is a bully, we can float our CV and find another job. We can move, change churches, resign from clubs and join new ones. However, our children can't just walk away as easily as we can. It's not easy to change classes or schools to avoid severe bullying. As parents, we have to be an advocate for our children--and we must not tolerate bullying. When a child is being bullied, we must not give classic advise, such as "walk away", "don't call the bully a name in return", "don't fight" or "go ahead, beat the stuffings out of the bully" never worked. The best protection for those bullied is to form their own mutual defense clique. We must realize that the more a child differs from the social norms of the school, the more the child is likely to be singled-out for bullying. Children with hidden disabilities are more likely to be bullied, even compared with children who are only obviously physical disabilities. American culture has a strong strand of anti intellectualism in it, and that very smart children can have real problems with bullies in many schools. Gifted and talented programs, at one time, provided a refuge for some of these children, but, with budget cuts, they were the first programs to go.

As parents and citizens, we must create a culture that respects honesty, integrity, courage, respect and hard, honest work. We must fight the message our culture send us, "Don't get involved", "Don't complain", "Don't expose corruption and cheating". We need to remember that our schools are a just a mirror of the society we have built.

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» Type A vs Type B and so on Posted by: TheJibreelaMonsters
The solution to the school bully
Posted by: lucius13 on May 19, 2008 9:49 PM   
Current rating: 1    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
The reason there is so much bullying going on is because they can get away with it without getting their butt kicked. Schools have outlawed fighting and bullies know it, if the kid being bullied could pop the bully in the mouth there would be a lot less of it.

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WIMPY ADMINISTRATORS WHO WON'T DISCIPLINE KIDS...
Posted by: teacherteacher on May 19, 2008 10:11 PM   
Current rating: 3    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
are one of the primary ones to blame for this problem escalating at schools. And the teacher who actually TRIES to get any help with serious behavior problems??? Well, he/she will get written up as having poor "class management skills."

What??? Send a student who is disruptive OUT of the class so that others can learn??? The TEACHER is obviously to blame once again... per the administrator/principal.

Wonder WHY more and more teachers are leaving the so-called profession? It's more a wonder WHY any are STILL THERE!!!

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Spare the rod......
Posted by: Sparks56 on May 20, 2008 3:09 AM   
Current rating: 1    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
I think one cause of the surge in bad behavior by some children is the criminalization of corporal punishment. When some children begin to understand that no authority figure; parent, teacher, coach, can lay a hand on them no matter what they do, they realize they have no need to develope their own self-control. Add to this the violence in media, music, and computer games, and the general glorification of war and you have a perfect environment to bring out the worst in some children.
In the grammar school I went to there was a paddle for the behinds of miscreants, who had to write their names on the handle after recieving punishment. I never had to put my name on the paddle, but I also never forgot that I would if I behaved badly.

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They're right on one cause: global (etc.) lifestyle
Posted by: Daniel35 on May 20, 2008 9:57 AM   
Current rating: 1    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
We all live pretty close to the kind of life we were raised in, sometimes advancing, sometimes regressing. I think it's influenced a lot by population pressures resulting from "Be fruitful and multiply". In general there's some net advance over the centuries. But it looks to me like we may be in for a short but extreme period of regression, which may relieve the population factor for a while. Maybe some day we can learn to control our growth. There may be better ways than war and brutality. Fix the cause, for many reasons, and you'll fix the problems. Other 'fixes' are only temporary.

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Teaching Tolerance
Posted by: jjdoggie on May 20, 2008 12:28 PM   
Current rating: 1    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
The Southern Poverty Law Center has a wonderful program for teaching kids tolerance of others' differences. It is provided free to any school that asks, so get involved solving the "bullying" problem by talking to teachers/administrators at your local schools -- "if they order,..... it will come".

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Bullying is EVERYWHERE and always has been, duh.
Posted by: stellabloo on May 20, 2008 1:54 PM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Yes I was bullied in school. Other little girls threw rocks at me. Somehow I survived, went on to become a typical teenage geek bullied at length during the daily 2 hr bus rides ....

Fast forward to the 20 year high school reunion - I am now athletic, outgoing and a successful professional ... ready to take on the world!
WRONG.

I took on a new job in a rural area. I had never heard of bullying in the workplace, thought I was getting along famously with my new co-workers and really impressing my new bosses back at the head office. Yes, I was - but the area manager hated me. And the mark of the workplace bully is that all who are immune to bullying shall be TERMINATED.

Search up "workplace bullying" to get an eye-opener.

And then my kid's father (who was also bullied as a child) pops up, jobless, 10 years after legal separation - and starts a campaign of terror - against me! My 12 yr old son is suddenly transferred to a new school and I'm not allowed to see him.

The fact that I was the sole custodial parent and guardian and that this man had welched on 10 yrs of support payments (while enjoying EXTRA visiting rights) was completely wasted on the school, the school superintendant, the local police, doctors, psychiatrists and a slew of social service workers.

I had to go to our local government representative (on my lawyer's advice, next stop being the media) to have my basic right as a parent - to talk to my own kid - enforced.

Suffice to say that although my relationship with my son is now stronger than ever, I didn't make many friends by intervening as I did, was actually threatened at very high levels(!) and found out for myself how deeply entrenched bullying is in our "civilized" society. I miss being naive enough to believe that self-empowerment was all it took :(

One thing completely forgotten in all this talk of school bullies is that at least 1 in 100 kids are FAS or FASD - and consequently more at risk to be bullies and/or victims. All this helpful pychology doesn't address this serious physical condition or the causes that perpetuate this statistic. Or the fact that bullying is so deeply ingrained in our "civilization" that I predict parents will soon be under pressure to simply medicate aggressive or troubled children :(

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The agenda is clear
Posted by: dejesus_riley on May 20, 2008 4:11 PM   
Current rating: 1    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
This article is written like the authors are trying to sell something... oh wait they are.

Last year I was substitute teacher in Hayward, CA which is part of the greater Oakland metropolitan area. Oakland is renowned for the prevalence of inner city culture and life with the criminal activity to match the stereotype that seems to tag along the ghetto. Suffice to say, the school system in the area is in a lot of trouble and faces real issues with violence. My experience working in this troubled area leads to a lot of contention with this article. The authors simply attribute the ills of todays youth to the wrong thing and their solution is equally as misguided. Over all their argument is overly simplified and ignores the far more complex issues that need to be dealt with as well as the article being slightly racially insensitive as anyone who has worked in education in low income areas wrought with violence would know, the recent news breaking headlines of student violence largely among white youth are no mystery to the inner city and that the problem is not solvable simply by social schooling, I also doubt that it would have much considerable effect.

The situation requires a much deeper and thorough analysis if the problem is to be fixed. Parenting is a major factor, however as schools behave as a social institution in addition to an educational institution we cannot simply place the blame on parents if they are not aware of their children's behavior in school as it is unrealistic to expect a child to communicate their own bad behavior to their parents. Nor can we expect teachers to be able to effectively monitor their students in classrooms that are often over packed and overly regulated.

To counter abhorrent social behavior in the school ground starts at the school and not simply by adding social behavior classes. It really comes back to the traditional complaint of to many students per teacher, although I think it goes further than that. Due to the massive bureaucratic beast our countries educational system has become a business and the business of educating today's youth is not good.

The reality of fixing this situation is that this needs to be attacked through legislation. The taxation structure for the appropriation for funds needs to be radically adjusted to prevent inner city schools from falling even further behind where the violence is worse. Teachers need to have more jurisdiction of how to respond to students in the classroom for bad behavior and most importantly a manageable amount of students that they can devote more personal time with by which to form better bonds with their students because when the parents aren't at school with the children and the teachers are too overwhelmed to monitor and effectively teach the students who do they have to turn to? They will turn to each other, and when combining those factors with the problems put forth by the authors of this article you will find why schoolyard violence and coercion occur.

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Three cheers for gangs!!!
Posted by: Landbaron on May 20, 2008 7:51 PM   
Current rating: 1    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Bullies need to be attacked by gangs and beat within an inch of their lives to get the message across.

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Blame goes entirely to the parents and no one else
Posted by: Libsrule on May 20, 2008 9:46 PM   
Current rating: 2    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
I am a product of the 50s; born in 51. We were raised to total respect for our elders especially parents and in particular our teachers.

We never back talked teachers and fights were really not that common and when they were it was rarely a bully fight but the usual "oh yeah" "Yeah" type of nonsense.

In all my years I ran into one bully in a Florida school in Tampa. A real badazz at 12, I got a lucky punch in right away and that seemed to end it. He was P.O'd but no further problems.

HOWEVER my nieces who came to live with me were enrolled in the local school and one of the boys decided to try bullying my youngest niece at 13 through emails and IM's. I printed out the IM's which were filthy beyond belief and totally violent and took them to the school to show the principal who called the parents in and HERE was the shocker, THEY COULD CARE LESS and in fact seemed to want to blame my niece as though she INVITED the abuse.

I was appalled and the little bastard just smiled at the whole thing. The school believed us however and told the parents one more incident like this and they would have their kid removed from school.

He tried it again THAT NIGHT, we printed it out and took it to the school. He was gone.

I blamed the parent who refused to be involved with what their kid did and refused to believe he could do anything wrong and tried to blame someone else for their faults.

So there is no doubt in my mind all of this goes back to parents and especially parents who refuse to take responsibility for their little darlings behaviour. They are just too damned lazy to get that involved. And it just isn't a wealth or locale factor. We live in a pretty nice upscale community in Santa Barbara country. The Santa Ynez Valley and while it isn't as prevalent as in other places, as I showed it does happen everywhere.

It's the parents and no one else's fault.

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It Would Also Help If We STOP Making Bullies into Heroes...
Posted by: gs15 on May 21, 2008 9:54 AM   
Current rating: 4    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
...as we do with "House," Simon on "American Idol," Judge Judy (and most other TV judges), Dr. Phil, that lady on "Cold Case," Ramsay on "Hell's Kitchen," virtualy every "reality" show, et cetera, et cetera, ET CETERA...

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Chicken or egg?
Posted by: dejesus_riley on May 21, 2008 11:50 AM   
Current rating: 2    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
How do we control on a cultural level the values of the media and its reflections into our lives? Bullies are popular because consumers (me and you) by and large love them or love to hate them thus shining the spotlight on them.

The only way to work that kind of change outside of a familial or educational setting would simply be to get enough people to stop watching, which isn't likely because people do enjoy watching that sort of thing.

The only real way to address this issue is to start at home and maintain it in the classroom.

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Bobby Decker AKA THE ARTIST FORMERLY KNOWN AS THE PURPLERAIN MAN
Posted by: Bobby Decker on May 21, 2008 5:25 PM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
MAYBE ITS GOT SOMTHING TO DO WITH RONALD REAGANS FUCK THEM BEFORE THEY FUCK YOU MANTRA
AMERACAS EATEN UP WITH A SPOON FOR ALMOST 30 YEARS......OH YEA...AND ALL THAT WHOLE FREE TRADE...GOOD GLOBAL {"WELCOME TO WALL MART WOULD YOU LIKE FRIES WITH THAT !?"} GOOD GLOBAL REPUBLICAN SERVICES ECONOMY HORSE SHIT !.......AND FOR ALL THOSE LITTLE RITILIN RANGERS IN THE BOTTOM 80% WHO WONT EVEN QUALIFY FOR A CHANCE TO MORTAGE THIER SOULS FOR A DEGREE SO THEY COMPETE WITH SOME OTHER POOR HUNGERY SON OF A BITCH IN INDIA OR CHINA WHO,ED BE TRAMPLED TO DEATH LIKE THE WHO CONCERT IN CINCINITTI FOR THE CHANCE TO DO IT FOR TEN THO A YEAR !?

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Blame our social structure
Posted by: pangolin on May 21, 2008 9:44 PM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Nowhere in human evolution would you ever have found a mass of 800 12, 13 and 14 year olds in one place. Ask a native tribesman of Papua New Guinea, the Amazon or a San of Southern Africa if you should allow a pack of early teens like that to congregate in one place and they would call you insane. For actual teens it's even worse.

Possibly the correct number that would allow for decent guidance is something like seven or eight to one with the kids in a group ranged over 4 to 5 years. Actual supervisory numbers for adults are five to one for a group leader, with perhaps 20 to 50 reporting to somebody with executive authority. That's execute-ive as in firing, dismissal or outcasting authority.

For teens working as apprentices the idea of having more than 2 or three teen-age apprentices to supervise and still get any actual work done would have been appalling to any craftsman. If there were more than 3 the risk of trouble would be so high that you would never be able to look at your own work. Read Benjamin Franklin's autobiography for comments on apprentices.

The operational concept is that our schools can raise up functional adults when we allow concentrations of 20 to 30 children per adult and then let them gang up on each other several times a day while the adults hide. While this provides for the greatest quantity of surplus labor for the profit-taking class to exploit it isn't exactly operative.

Your average 18 year old is now just about useless to his/herself and others. They cannot cook, clean, garden, repair anything, read, write, think logically or operate effectively in a group. There are people in their 20's in the US who have to buy pre-cooked rice because they can't figure out how to make it themselves.

There was a season of Survivor where the contestants ate undercooked rice every day cooked in tin cans because they couldn't figure out how to cook it. They were on a riverbank and could have made clay pots in a few hours had they simply tried.

The reason we have gangs and Columbine incidents is because we ignore what the conditions were when we evolved. We abandon our children to schools so that adults can become profit cows for our corporate masters.

Think of the people of New Orleans sitting in squalor when there was 20 to 40 gallons of clean water in every water heater in the city. Using the floor for toilets when they could have sent scavenging parties out for five gallon buckets and paper for sanitary toilets. Nobody, either in the populace or the national guard forces at the stadium could think of that?

We're all just one hurricane, earthquake or fire away from the same squalor and most of us know nothing of how to get along. Our society is insane at it's very core.

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My response to the collective attack on me and my character for my original post
Posted by: blogbooks on May 24, 2008 8:13 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
First, a little background.

Raised by a single mother and taught pacifism stemming from a combination of pseudo-psychological babble originating in the 1970's and the Baptist Church.

Got the shit stomped out of me just about every day for the first 12 years of my life by every bully in school (and where I grew up there were a hell of a lot of them).

Telling the teachers didn't do jack squat. They didn't care and they don't care these days either.

The ONLY way my life got any better was when puberty hit and the testosterone pumping through my veins told me to lift things (anything, crates of useless books that didn't teach me any real world survival skills were a favorite at the time) to get stronger and survive. Primal urges to destroy my enemies and impose my will on reality overcame me.

Being able to protect yourself is the only guarantee that you will be protected. The police won't, and can't do it. Children in school are on their own in almost all cases.

I'll go ahead and repeat myself, "weakness invites aggression." See Iraq. See Tibet.

Why does the U.S. invade weak nations and tip toe around China and Russia? Why did China steam roll into Tibet?

You're living in a fantasy world if you think strength isn't necessary to ward off aggression.

I'm not saying it's "right", I'm not saying that this is how it "should" be. Moral judgments are irrelevant. I am telling you my observations of reality and what I consider to be objectively true.

"Right" and "wrong" don't mean much when the kid up the street sends yours home with a concussion and permanent vision damage. Nor do they mean much when you get home invaded and your family burns alive or dies of smoke inhalation.

I feel very strongly about this topic...

If you can't protect yourself and your family then you are defective as a human being.

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In the schools we call it "bullying", in the adult world what do we call it?
Posted by: blogbooks on May 24, 2008 8:21 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
How about aggravated assault?

How about sexually harassment?

How about rape?

The best solution I ever saw was in my high school. Every kid that started a fight got expelled on the first offense. That was it, bam, gone. Never to be seen again - enjoy your job at taco bell or stint in the Army scum bag.

It worked beautifully. There were over 50 fights in my first month in high school, to include gang fights with weapons, and after the new policy went into effect there were maybe 5 for the next 4 years.

Expel these kids and get them used to being separated from civil society since they'll probably end up in prison anyway.

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Induced Sociopathy
Posted by: Urgelt on May 29, 2008 12:42 AM   
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Our society is becoming sociopathic.

Sociopathy simply means lacking empathy. A sociopath is a person who has none, and therefore is unconstrained in his actions by any thought of the harm they might do to others.

The way you engineer a sociopathic society is:

- Objectify women. Use ads and pornography. This is powerful, because empathy is already seen as a primarily feminine trait. If women are debased, so is empathy.

- Desensitize the population to violence. 300 prime time shootings a week on TV ought to do the trick. But we'll throw in violent games, too. Got to catch them young.

- Weaken parents' influence on children. If both parents have to work to make ends meet, the kids will be shuffled off to day care centers where, often, the care-givers aren't all that caring.

- Polarize the population with emotional issues, and ensure both sides demonize each other with the language of hatred. Angry people are not in a mood to be empathetic.

- Make people afraid. Empathy takes a nose-dive when people are afraid.

- Make sure you have enemies. Enemies are great for generating hatred and fear. See above.

America is now an experiment in social Darwinism. We glorify winners and despise losers. Our corporations are totalitarian hierarchies with the power of life and death - literally - over their peasants, who will lose their health care if they do not express total loyalty. We are all desperately climbing the ladder to get an advantage, working harder than any other people on Earth, even as the entire ladder sinks faster than we can climb.

And the people at the top? Bullies, for the most part. One does not reach the pinacle of corporate America without ruthlessness. Empathy is not a business asset.

Small wonder kids are bullying each other. They learned it from us.

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