COMMENTS: 72
Why Michael Pollan and Alice Waters Should Quit Celebrating Food-Price Hikes
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As their grocery bills rise, Americans should take comfort: the price they're paying for industrially produced food in the supermarket is starting to approach that of artisanally produced food at the farmers' market. And that might make more of them choose healthier, less environmentally destructive diets. At least, that's the message of a recent article the New York Timesarticle, titled "Some Good News on Food Prices."
To make her case, reporter Kim Severson turned to two Berkeley-based icons of the sustainable-food movement, author Michael Pollan and restaurateur Alice Waters. "Higher food prices level the playing field for sustainable food that doesn't rely on fossil fuels," Pollan told Severson.
People struggling with their food bills should "make a sacrifice on the cell phone or the third pair of Nike shoes," Waters advised.
All due respect to Pollan and Waters, but I think they are grossly simplifying matters here. Nationwide, heightened food and gasoline prices, combined with an economy that's shedding jobs, are putting a hard squeeze on consumers. According to The New York Times, applications for food stamps have surged recently, and the program is projected to reach 28 million Americans over the next several months, the most since its inception in the 1960s.
I have a hard time imagining people who are struggling to put food on the table rambling off to the farmers' market on Saturday to fill cloth bags with the sort of fresh, local, organic produce so beloved by Pollan and Waters (and me). Indeed, higher food prices are likely to send many time- and cash-strapped people in quite the opposite direction.
Rising costs may end up increasing the allure of large entities with economies of scale, cutthroat buying practices, and experience in transforming low-quality ag inputs into stuff people like to eat. I'm talking about fast-food companies, which can likely absorb higher input prices and still churn out crap -- and rake in profits. If that's true, prices at the drive-thru won't rise quite as steeply as those in the supermarket line, giving people yet more incentive to abandon their home kitchens and flock to the Golden Arches.
An informal recent lunchtime survey of fast-food chains in the Chapel Hill area yielded results that would make a Berkeley foodie gag on her omelet of pastured eggs, raw-milk cheese, just-picked kale, and green garlic. At McDonald's, I shouldered my way through a bustling crowd and saw Big Mac combo meals, complete with fries and Coke, going for $4.29. Wendy's, equally crowded, offered a similar package for a bit more than $5. Domino's advertised a one-topping large pizza -- "six foldable slices!" -- for $10. At a Papa John's down the road, $11 will get you a large pie with three toppings. Something tells me these places, not farmers' markets or restaurants like Waters' Chez Panisse, will remain the regular canteen of millions of Americans.
What, then, to do? The answer, it seems to me, is not just to hope that expensive industrial food drives people toward equally expensive sustainable food. It's to make sustainable food more broadly accessible and affordable. And that's happening in a few places -- most recently Washington state -- thanks to farsighted policymakers.
How We Got Here, and How We Can Get Away
Prices of corn and soybean -- lifeblood of the industrial food system, as Pollan has so eloquently shown -- hovered near 30-year lows just two years ago. Then President Bush declared that America was "addicted to oil," and responded by ramping up subsidies for corn-based ethanol and soy-based biodiesel. The effort has done little to ease our oil fetish, but it has resulted in the doubling and then some of corn and soy prices.
Indeed, it's quite likely that the biofuel boom has done more harm than good for the environment. It's led to a surge in agrichemical use and phosphate mining, a dramatic expansion in genetically modified crops, and probably the growth of the infamous agriculture-related dead zone that snuffs out sea life in the Gulf of Mexico each year.
Rather than revaluing food, as Pollan and Waters seem to think, current policy seems bent on puffing up the profits of the very agribusiness giants whose produce Pollan and Waters so deplore.
Of course, there's another way. Just as public policy can be used to consolidate the grip of industrial agriculture, it can also be used to increase the accessibility of sustainable agriculture. Admittedly, the 2007 farm bill, still belatedly knocking around Washington waiting for agreement between the president and Congress, probably can't be counted on for much relief.
But that doesn't mean sustainable-food advocates need to sit on their hands and wait for the masses to discover the pleasures of a real tomato. All over the country, state and local policy is being tweaked to make fresh, local food more accessible.
Just last week, Washington Gov. Chris Gregoire (D) signed sweeping legislation designed to link the state's farmers with folks who normally don't get much access to fresh produce: schoolchildren, food-stamp recipients, and food-bank users.
As Washington Grows, So Grows the Nation?
The law, which passed with near-unanimous bipartisan support, will put real resources into farm-to-school: It will dedicate two and a half full-time state agriculture-department employees to running the program, and commit $600,000 annually to create a "locally grown fruit and vegetable snack program" in elementary schools with high numbers of low-income students.
It also clears one of the key obstacles that prevent school cafeterias from buying local: the requirement that they accept the lowest-cost bid and not discriminate based on geography.
The legislation has severe limitations. It can't change the National School Lunch Program's minuscule budget, which allots $2.47 to school cafeterias per lunch served to students who qualify for assistance, and $0.23 per meal served to students who pay. Once you account for labor and other overhead costs, schools have about a dollar a day to spend on actual ingredients.
Nor can the new law rebuild the cafeteria-level kitchen infrastructure that has been dismantled nationwide over the past 30 years. As Jennifer Langston wrote in an excellent Seattle Post-Intelligencer piece last year, "Schools have ripped out kitchens and replaced them with closet-sized rewarming centers with no capacity to deal with things such as dirty carrots."
But it does move the state's schools in the direction of providing healthy, nutritious food, for students who now access mostly industrial dreck.
I asked Ann Cooper, director of nutrition services for the Berkeley Unified School District and author of Lunch Lessons: Changing the Way We Feed Our Children, how the Washington law might change things for the state's children. She told me that Berkeley rules, like the new Washington code, free her from buying from the lowest bidder. She recently switched from industrial white rice, which she had been buying for $0.46 per pound, to California-produced brown rice for $0.72. "On the plate, that only amounts to a penny difference per kid," she said. "In terms of nutrition and flavor, the difference is huge."
It's these kinds of policies, not the government biofuel scheme, that have real potential to revalue good food in the United States. I wish influential figures like Pollan and Waters would quit pushing to make industrial food more expensive, and ramp up their efforts to make sustainable food more accessible instead -- something they've advocated forcefully in the past.
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Posted by: Jeff Hoffman on Apr 28, 2008 12:54 PM
Current rating: 3 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Mr. Philipott speculates that higher prices for chemical produce will cause people will shift from buying that produce to buying fast food, which he claims causes even more environmental destruction.
First, this is pure speculation. What we DO know is that higher prices cause less consumption, so people will definitely buy less chemical produce. Whether they choose to give up needless amenities like cell phones and switch to organic local food or to further participate in destruction of the Earth and to compromise their own health by eating fast food instead of making their own is yet unknown.
Second, keeping the price of chemical produce artificially low merely encourages its consumption, which is bad for the Earth and which no environmentalist should be advocating. It would be much better for the Earth if prices of all environmentally harmful products were greatly increased, and chemical produce is certainly no exception.
Third, there is no evidence that the food sold by fast food chains causes any more environmental harm than chemical produce sold in large grocery chains. Whatever additional harms there are would likely be minuscule, because both foods poison the Earth when grown and cause more environmental destruction by their transportation over large distances.
Finally, Ms. Waters is 100% correct: people should get rid of needless junk like cell phones if they can't afford to buy fresh produce. Not only does failure to do this show grossly misplaced priorities, but needless consumption itself is one of the root causes of all environmental harm. To use cell phones as an example, not only is their consumption directly harmful for all the usual reasons, the towers that transmit and receive their signals emit radiation and kill millions of birds annually. So getting people to lower their consumption would be a major boon for our planet and should be strongly encouraged, not ignored as Mr. Philipott did here.
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» Well no we don't know that.
Posted by: Livemike
» RE: Both Right
Posted by: Ambercat
» Well said....
Posted by: Fencerider
» Not Condescending, Environmental
Posted by: Jeff Hoffman
» Your a scientist it seems....
Posted by: Fencerider
» RE: Both Right ... and a bit off too...
Posted by: keep_it_real
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Posted by: milltom on Apr 29, 2008 3:28 AM
Current rating: 3 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
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» RE: what candidates? Oh you mean those 3 corporate darlings?
Posted by: DaBear
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Posted by: hudsonValleyProgressive on Apr 29, 2008 3:32 AM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Anyone who gets hungry along the NJ Turnpike knows that the highway is held hostage by a culinary wasteland of fast food chains.
Resigned to staying on the turnpike instead of seeking healthier fare, last week I ventured into a Burger King. My daughter and I each ordered a "meal" (burger, fries, and soda).
The tab for two: $17 and change. Still, for many Americans, it's a bargain compared to Chez Panisse and the like.
Next time I'll pack a sandwich (whole grain bread, of course).
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» What the hell is "Chez Panisse"?
Posted by: DaBear
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Posted by: pollencruncher on Apr 29, 2008 4:00 AM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Individually people need to make a health decision, eat better quality with Organic foods with natural chemicals or eat the commerical produced foods that have residual chemicals and genetically modified genes and hope for no long term health issues.
My house will chose to relay on natural developed gene activity and nutrident dense foods from the world of Organic foods and meats.
Pollencruncher
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Posted by: Fat Man at the Buffet Line on Apr 29, 2008 4:36 AM
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Posted by: racje on Apr 29, 2008 5:13 AM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
I find myself switching away from fruits and vegetables and toward grain-based foods. Sure, rice and beans cost more than they used to, but they are still a lot cheaper than produce, dairy or meat. As the price of the rice and beans goes up, there's just less money left over for the organic vegetables.
Yeah, it's a classic backward-bending demand curve. When the prices of basic goods go up, people cut back on extras, and wind up with more of the basics. Michael Pollan should take another look at his economics 101.
What is needed, as several have suggested, is not higher prices for the "unsustainable" cheap food that keeps poor people eating, but better access to nourishing and sustainably produced foods. Chic boutique eaters can afford to subsidize organic farmers out of their own pockets. Poor people can't.
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» Yes poor people CAN
Posted by: grn1
» RE: Yes poor people CAN
Posted by: Fat Man at the Buffet Line
» RE: Yes poor people CAN
Posted by: morticia
» That's Alice WATERS, not WALKER
Posted by: hagwind
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Posted by: janvdb on Apr 29, 2008 6:43 AM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
If the prices of those commodities rise enough that those farmers are swimming in income, MAYBE those subsidy dollars can be redirected toward fruit and vegetable producers, especially ORGANIC producers.
Maybe not, but those subsidies should be ended or redirected somewhere. The best place would be to organics. If subsidies can make organics as cheap as conventional, well, the sky is the limit.
As far as the poor and their eating habits, the quickest way for any poor person to save money on food is to stop eating at restaurants, even McDonald's. Eating at home is far cheaper -- and healthier, too.
And, a person can buy ingredients and cook rather than buying TV dinners.
Maybe that will happen, to some extent.
For those who are already doing this and still can't make ends meet, foodstamps.
Jan VanDenBerg
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Posted by: Southern Gal on Apr 29, 2008 6:46 AM
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Posted by: Gravitas on Apr 29, 2008 6:47 AM
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I agree with the author that sustainable foods should be made more affordable instead of rejoicing people will go hungry. But I would take it a step further. Until we can provide economic security for everyone, stop imposing guilt over eating.
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» RE: Good Article!
Posted by: NoKidding
» RE: Good Article!
Posted by: kimpohl
» RE: Good Article!
Posted by: grn1
» I can smell the self-righteousness
Posted by: Gravitas
» RE: Good Article!
Posted by: hagwind
» RE:ligion of Food
Posted by: grumble-bum
» RE: Good Article!
Posted by: photon's feather
» RE: Good Article!
Posted by: Fat Man at the Buffet Line
» RE: Good Article!
Posted by: grn1
» RE: Good Article! More PB&J
Posted by: DaBear
» It IS A "Good Article", But I Think You Mean "Good Headline"
Posted by: grumble-bum
» I kept it simple
Posted by: Gravitas
» Too Bad It's Anything But "Simple"...
Posted by: grumble-bum
» RE: ...I Think You Mean "Good Headline"... gee, ASSume much?
Posted by: DaBear
» Check Yer Own Assumptions, Fella.
Posted by: grumble-bum
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Posted by: Andie927 on Apr 29, 2008 7:12 AM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
#1. Many, if not most of these 'farmers markets' aren't real farmers! They buy produce in bulk and re-sell it!
#2. We're as a 'nation' going in the wrong direction. Corn, and ethenal isn't practical to fuel the Nation. Most of Europe is using Bio-Diesel! You can use a multitude of crops. Canola, sunflowers, ect. if you combine that with the Hybryd, and solar panels to recharge, now we're going in the Right direction!
Everyone wants one quick simple answer! Maybe we should be looking at ten or twenty! (Each one taking a Bite out of Oil)
#3. I amaze friends of ours, by buying one chicken on sale, and making three meals! Or one roast that makes four!
#4. One of the Best solutions I've ever seen, is when 5 to 10 friends, (like minded people) get together and buy in bulk, and form a co-op!
#5. Everyone should be digging up a patch of front lawn, planting some easy crops! Squash, beans, tomatos, learn how to use available materials, (veggie peelings, leaves, ect.) to mulch and compost. Find books on canning! If your garden over-produces, give away the extra!
HINT: Start small, keep it easy, TRY to stay Organic, but not to the point that you lose the crop!
#6. Learn how to can, and or freeze extra, Properly! When blueberries, strawberries, ect. are in season, buy process and store! It's going to be a LONG winter!
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Posted by: jwhitneywise on Apr 29, 2008 8:04 AM
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» RE: Screw Fresh
Posted by: peacefullaim
» RE: Screw Fresh
Posted by: Fat Man at the Buffet Line
» RE: Screw Fresh.... fresH screW
Posted by: DaBear
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Posted by: maxfactor on Apr 29, 2008 9:00 AM
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Most cars run around 35-45ms or more to the gallon.
1 Windpark per week goes online. Spain is building large solarfarms. A century long plan is discussed right now to use a patch of the Saharadesert for solarfarming costing 700bn $ to supply whole of Europe with solar electricity.
Kiss goodbye to russian and middle eastern oil and US-suppremacy...
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Posted by: Fat Man at the Buffet Line on Apr 29, 2008 9:14 AM
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» RE: Most people who run
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Posted by: frankly1 on Apr 29, 2008 9:47 AM
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Posted by: westomoon on Apr 29, 2008 12:03 PM
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Posted by: Jeff Hoffman on Apr 29, 2008 1:09 PM
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I have a close friend who has had a six figure salary for many years, but who used to claim that he couldn't afford organic food. This claim stopped once his wife decided that they would buy organic when they could find it.
The point is that THESE are the people this issue revolves around: people who are not at all poor, which is the vast majority of Americans, but who have priorities that do not include the environment. (You don't need to make anywhere near a six figure salary to afford organic food, this was just an example.) Even Americans making six figure salaries now consider themselves to be middle class, so they claim they can't afford to do the right thing by spending a few cents more for the environment. It's just that Americans have had it far too good for far too long and feel entitled to whatever they want, so they've convinced themselves that they "need" all this needless crap, consumption of which is destroying the Earth. The fact is that there is only a very small percentage of Americans who cannot afford local organic food.
And again, this gets back to priorities. What's more important, living in a manner that does not destroy our planet, or acquiring needless material things like cell phones? These are the real issues here.
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» RE: Myth Of American Poverty ....only a "myth" to uberclassers
Posted by: DaBear
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Posted by: redgreenbrown on Apr 29, 2008 1:31 PM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
The rise in food prices is not going to get poor people around the world eating organic food. It is just going to get them hungrier. The subsidies by governments in the north have so distorted and skewed agricultural markets for ages that most farmers in the south are unable to be able to respond to this crisis in a timely manner by producing organic or any other food in time to stave off the approaching hunger.
What is needed most urgently is urgent national support of agricultural projects in all developing nations so that they can compete. At the same time protections against trade distorting subsidies must be scrapped.
Then there is obscene abomination of how the food market has been hijacked by the futures market. Just as it costs no more to extract oil from the ground than it did a few years ago so too the real costs of food and food supplies generally are not seriously changed. What has changed is the financial system where food commodities are now tradable safe havens. Ubercapitalism run amuk, starving those who cannot afford food while margin traders make a killling. Literally.
The whole issue of local, national and international food security has suffered at the hands of the market, the Bretton Woods institutions, the WTO, the OECD etc. Food aid is a sop.
Rather help us feed the people of the world through supporting direct, relevant, applicable, food extension processes that avoid external inputs and meddling.
Then the south will be able to feed itself while the north worries about organic food, or what meat to eat today or what margin call to make on hard winter wheat.
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» RE: the rest of the planet
Posted by: hagwind
» RE: the rest of the planet
Posted by: grn1
» RE: the rest of the planet should just eat PB&J
Posted by: DaBear
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Posted by: macdon1 on Apr 29, 2008 2:48 PM
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» RE: Their Supporters DID try to Buy the Land
Posted by: DaBear
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Posted by: macdon1 on Apr 29, 2008 2:50 PM
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Posted by: buddha's bud on Apr 29, 2008 3:16 PM
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» RE: Food Prices and chaos
Posted by: Dixongeo
» RE: Food Prices and chaos in the school cafeteria
Posted by: ellie
» RE: Food Prices and chaos in the school cafeteria
Posted by: Fat Man at the Buffet Line
» RE: Food Prices and chaos in the school cafeteria
Posted by: grn1
» RE: Food Prices and PB&J..why not let them eat cake? overprivileged...
Posted by: DaBear
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Posted by: nfarmwell on Apr 29, 2008 6:39 PM
Current rating: 4 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
As Pollan points out, the relative amount people spend on food has declined significantly over the last 30 years. In 1960, Americans spent 17.5 percent of the national income on food and 5 percent on health care. Today, spending on food has dropped to 10 percent of national income, while health-care spending has climbed to 16 percent. In this era of cheap energy, people who are poor have not gone as hungry as they would have otherwise. And consequently, for probably the first time in history, it is possible to be both overweight and undernourished. This means that cheap energy has allowed us all to paper over the problem of real poverty. Cheap oil was a kind of subsidy, for all of us, but at the tragic expense of our children's future of course.
As energy prices increase, we will be forced to face, finally, many uncomfortable realities. The true cost of oil will make alternative energy and alternative farming more competitive. In the absence of good social policy, it will also, sadly, make life harder for the poor. This it true and I am sympathetic. But to argue, as Philpott seems to, that the new plight of the poor in any way legitimates a system predicated on ill-health and corruption is misguided. The current plight of the poor needs to be seen as a consequence of that dysfunctional system, not as an argument in its favor.
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» Wait did we read the same article(s)?
Posted by: DaBear
» RE: Wait did we read the same article(s)?
Posted by: nfarmwell
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Posted by: DaBear on Apr 30, 2008 12:20 PM
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If you live under local rules (100 milers or less) you can only buy from less than half the stands at a typical market, even less if you live in a Republikaaner city that doesn't require farmers to be at least organic or pesticide free. The local-food thing aside, even the farmer's market prices are going up, A LOT. $6/lb for potatoes, snap peas for $5/lb, an heirloom tomato is $3 per tomato, a Meyer lemon is $0.50 each. These prices are double what they were six months ago.
The nice owning class bitch a family-I-know rents from lets them grow their own food but her HOA is charging her for it and threatening to tear up the family's crop from their pots on the porch (those bean plants and lettuce will sure make property values go down, huh?). Course none of that matters since she's losing the place to foreclosure in two months and once more, the family-I-know'll be back on the street.
There's always the guerilla food our local anarchists planted in city landscaping, but that's subject to criminal consequences for harvesting, weeding, etc.
Food prices are criminal. The owning class is responsible. Time to make them pay for their parasitism. When you pick off a tick, you usually burn them...
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» Too Bad the Chip On Your Shoulder Isn't Made of Potatoes...
Posted by: grumble-bum
» RE: owning class stoopid and farmer's markets:grouch
Posted by: Fat Man at the Buffet Line
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Posted by: MM1970 on Apr 30, 2008 7:27 PM
Current rating: Not yet rated [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Jar of PB at TJ's: 1.69
Loaf of bread at TJ's (16 slices): 1.99
Jam: We buy in bulk, $5 for 64 oz, not organic
Grand setback: $8.68.
But at 2 TBSP per sandwich, 10 sandwiches per week, that's 20 TBSP, which is 1.25 cups, which is just over half the jar of PB.
At 2 TBSP per sandwich, that's 1.25 cups of jam also.
That's 1.06 for PB, 0.78 for peanut butter. Now, you need 20 slices of bread, and you only get 16. So you need 1.25 loaves of bread, which is $2.49.
Which really sets you back $4.33 for 5 days, or $0.43 per sandwich.
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Posted by: Jeff Hoffman on Apr 28, 2008 12:54 PM
Current rating: 3 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Mr. Philipott speculates that higher prices for chemical produce will cause people will shift from buying that produce to buying fast food, which he claims causes even more environmental destruction.
First, this is pure speculation. What we DO know is that higher prices cause less consumption, so people will definitely buy less chemical produce. Whether they choose to give up needless amenities like cell phones and switch to organic local food or to further participate in destruction of the Earth and to compromise their own health by eating fast food instead of making their own is yet unknown.
Second, keeping the price of chemical produce artificially low merely encourages its consumption, which is bad for the Earth and which no environmentalist should be advocating. It would be much better for the Earth if prices of all environmentally harmful products were greatly increased, and chemical produce is certainly no exception.
Third, there is no evidence that the food sold by fast food chains causes any more environmental harm than chemical produce sold in large grocery chains. Whatever additional harms there are would likely be minuscule, because both foods poison the Earth when grown and cause more environmental destruction by their transportation over large distances.
Finally, Ms. Waters is 100% correct: people should get rid of needless junk like cell phones if they can't afford to buy fresh produce. Not only does failure to do this show grossly misplaced priorities, but needless consumption itself is one of the root causes of all environmental harm. To use cell phones as an example, not only is their consumption directly harmful for all the usual reasons, the towers that transmit and receive their signals emit radiation and kill millions of birds annually. So getting people to lower their consumption would be a major boon for our planet and should be strongly encouraged, not ignored as Mr. Philipott did here.
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» Well no we don't know that.
Posted by: Livemike
» RE: Both Right
Posted by: Ambercat
» Well said....
Posted by: Fencerider
» Not Condescending, Environmental
Posted by: Jeff Hoffman
» Your a scientist it seems....
Posted by: Fencerider
» RE: Both Right ... and a bit off too...
Posted by: keep_it_real
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Posted by: milltom on Apr 29, 2008 3:28 AM
Current rating: 3 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
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» RE: what candidates? Oh you mean those 3 corporate darlings?
Posted by: DaBear
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Posted by: hudsonValleyProgressive on Apr 29, 2008 3:32 AM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Anyone who gets hungry along the NJ Turnpike knows that the highway is held hostage by a culinary wasteland of fast food chains.
Resigned to staying on the turnpike instead of seeking healthier fare, last week I ventured into a Burger King. My daughter and I each ordered a "meal" (burger, fries, and soda).
The tab for two: $17 and change. Still, for many Americans, it's a bargain compared to Chez Panisse and the like.
Next time I'll pack a sandwich (whole grain bread, of course).
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» What the hell is "Chez Panisse"?
Posted by: DaBear
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Posted by: pollencruncher on Apr 29, 2008 4:00 AM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Individually people need to make a health decision, eat better quality with Organic foods with natural chemicals or eat the commerical produced foods that have residual chemicals and genetically modified genes and hope for no long term health issues.
My house will chose to relay on natural developed gene activity and nutrident dense foods from the world of Organic foods and meats.
Pollencruncher
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Posted by: Fat Man at the Buffet Line on Apr 29, 2008 4:36 AM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
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Posted by: racje on Apr 29, 2008 5:13 AM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
I find myself switching away from fruits and vegetables and toward grain-based foods. Sure, rice and beans cost more than they used to, but they are still a lot cheaper than produce, dairy or meat. As the price of the rice and beans goes up, there's just less money left over for the organic vegetables.
Yeah, it's a classic backward-bending demand curve. When the prices of basic goods go up, people cut back on extras, and wind up with more of the basics. Michael Pollan should take another look at his economics 101.
What is needed, as several have suggested, is not higher prices for the "unsustainable" cheap food that keeps poor people eating, but better access to nourishing and sustainably produced foods. Chic boutique eaters can afford to subsidize organic farmers out of their own pockets. Poor people can't.
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» Yes poor people CAN
Posted by: grn1
» RE: Yes poor people CAN
Posted by: Fat Man at the Buffet Line
» RE: Yes poor people CAN
Posted by: morticia
» That's Alice WATERS, not WALKER
Posted by: hagwind
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Posted by: janvdb on Apr 29, 2008 6:43 AM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
If the prices of those commodities rise enough that those farmers are swimming in income, MAYBE those subsidy dollars can be redirected toward fruit and vegetable producers, especially ORGANIC producers.
Maybe not, but those subsidies should be ended or redirected somewhere. The best place would be to organics. If subsidies can make organics as cheap as conventional, well, the sky is the limit.
As far as the poor and their eating habits, the quickest way for any poor person to save money on food is to stop eating at restaurants, even McDonald's. Eating at home is far cheaper -- and healthier, too.
And, a person can buy ingredients and cook rather than buying TV dinners.
Maybe that will happen, to some extent.
For those who are already doing this and still can't make ends meet, foodstamps.
Jan VanDenBerg
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Posted by: Southern Gal on Apr 29, 2008 6:46 AM
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Posted by: Gravitas on Apr 29, 2008 6:47 AM
Current rating: 4 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
I agree with the author that sustainable foods should be made more affordable instead of rejoicing people will go hungry. But I would take it a step further. Until we can provide economic security for everyone, stop imposing guilt over eating.
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» RE: Good Article!
Posted by: NoKidding
» RE: Good Article!
Posted by: kimpohl
» RE: Good Article!
Posted by: grn1
» I can smell the self-righteousness
Posted by: Gravitas
» RE: Good Article!
Posted by: hagwind
» RE:ligion of Food
Posted by: grumble-bum
» RE: Good Article!
Posted by: photon's feather
» RE: Good Article!
Posted by: Fat Man at the Buffet Line
» RE: Good Article!
Posted by: grn1
» RE: Good Article! More PB&J
Posted by: DaBear
» It IS A "Good Article", But I Think You Mean "Good Headline"
Posted by: grumble-bum
» I kept it simple
Posted by: Gravitas
» Too Bad It's Anything But "Simple"...
Posted by: grumble-bum
» RE: ...I Think You Mean "Good Headline"... gee, ASSume much?
Posted by: DaBear
» Check Yer Own Assumptions, Fella.
Posted by: grumble-bum
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Posted by: Andie927 on Apr 29, 2008 7:12 AM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
#1. Many, if not most of these 'farmers markets' aren't real farmers! They buy produce in bulk and re-sell it!
#2. We're as a 'nation' going in the wrong direction. Corn, and ethenal isn't practical to fuel the Nation. Most of Europe is using Bio-Diesel! You can use a multitude of crops. Canola, sunflowers, ect. if you combine that with the Hybryd, and solar panels to recharge, now we're going in the Right direction!
Everyone wants one quick simple answer! Maybe we should be looking at ten or twenty! (Each one taking a Bite out of Oil)
#3. I amaze friends of ours, by buying one chicken on sale, and making three meals! Or one roast that makes four!
#4. One of the Best solutions I've ever seen, is when 5 to 10 friends, (like minded people) get together and buy in bulk, and form a co-op!
#5. Everyone should be digging up a patch of front lawn, planting some easy crops! Squash, beans, tomatos, learn how to use available materials, (veggie peelings, leaves, ect.) to mulch and compost. Find books on canning! If your garden over-produces, give away the extra!
HINT: Start small, keep it easy, TRY to stay Organic, but not to the point that you lose the crop!
#6. Learn how to can, and or freeze extra, Properly! When blueberries, strawberries, ect. are in season, buy process and store! It's going to be a LONG winter!
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Posted by: jwhitneywise on Apr 29, 2008 8:04 AM
Current rating: 3 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
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» RE: Screw Fresh
Posted by: peacefullaim
» RE: Screw Fresh
Posted by: Fat Man at the Buffet Line
» RE: Screw Fresh.... fresH screW
Posted by: DaBear
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Posted by: maxfactor on Apr 29, 2008 9:00 AM
Current rating: Not yet rated [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Most cars run around 35-45ms or more to the gallon.
1 Windpark per week goes online. Spain is building large solarfarms. A century long plan is discussed right now to use a patch of the Saharadesert for solarfarming costing 700bn $ to supply whole of Europe with solar electricity.
Kiss goodbye to russian and middle eastern oil and US-suppremacy...
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Posted by: Fat Man at the Buffet Line on Apr 29, 2008 9:14 AM
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» RE: Most people who run
Posted by: grn1
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Posted by: frankly1 on Apr 29, 2008 9:47 AM
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Posted by: westomoon on Apr 29, 2008 12:03 PM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
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Posted by: Jeff Hoffman on Apr 29, 2008 1:09 PM
Current rating: 1 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
I have a close friend who has had a six figure salary for many years, but who used to claim that he couldn't afford organic food. This claim stopped once his wife decided that they would buy organic when they could find it.
The point is that THESE are the people this issue revolves around: people who are not at all poor, which is the vast majority of Americans, but who have priorities that do not include the environment. (You don't need to make anywhere near a six figure salary to afford organic food, this was just an example.) Even Americans making six figure salaries now consider themselves to be middle class, so they claim they can't afford to do the right thing by spending a few cents more for the environment. It's just that Americans have had it far too good for far too long and feel entitled to whatever they want, so they've convinced themselves that they "need" all this needless crap, consumption of which is destroying the Earth. The fact is that there is only a very small percentage of Americans who cannot afford local organic food.
And again, this gets back to priorities. What's more important, living in a manner that does not destroy our planet, or acquiring needless material things like cell phones? These are the real issues here.
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» RE: Myth Of American Poverty ....only a "myth" to uberclassers
Posted by: DaBear
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Posted by: redgreenbrown on Apr 29, 2008 1:31 PM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
The rise in food prices is not going to get poor people around the world eating organic food. It is just going to get them hungrier. The subsidies by governments in the north have so distorted and skewed agricultural markets for ages that most farmers in the south are unable to be able to respond to this crisis in a timely manner by producing organic or any other food in time to stave off the approaching hunger.
What is needed most urgently is urgent national support of agricultural projects in all developing nations so that they can compete. At the same time protections against trade distorting subsidies must be scrapped.
Then there is obscene abomination of how the food market has been hijacked by the futures market. Just as it costs no more to extract oil from the ground than it did a few years ago so too the real costs of food and food supplies generally are not seriously changed. What has changed is the financial system where food commodities are now tradable safe havens. Ubercapitalism run amuk, starving those who cannot afford food while margin traders make a killling. Literally.
The whole issue of local, national and international food security has suffered at the hands of the market, the Bretton Woods institutions, the WTO, the OECD etc. Food aid is a sop.
Rather help us feed the people of the world through supporting direct, relevant, applicable, food extension processes that avoid external inputs and meddling.
Then the south will be able to feed itself while the north worries about organic food, or what meat to eat today or what margin call to make on hard winter wheat.
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» RE: the rest of the planet
Posted by: hagwind
» RE: the rest of the planet
Posted by: grn1
» RE: the rest of the planet should just eat PB&J
Posted by: DaBear
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Posted by: macdon1 on Apr 29, 2008 2:48 PM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
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» RE: Their Supporters DID try to Buy the Land
Posted by: DaBear
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Posted by: macdon1 on Apr 29, 2008 2:50 PM
Current rating: Not yet rated [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
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Posted by: buddha's bud on Apr 29, 2008 3:16 PM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
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» RE: Food Prices and chaos
Posted by: Dixongeo
» RE: Food Prices and chaos in the school cafeteria
Posted by: ellie
» RE: Food Prices and chaos in the school cafeteria
Posted by: Fat Man at the Buffet Line
» RE: Food Prices and chaos in the school cafeteria
Posted by: grn1
» RE: Food Prices and PB&J..why not let them eat cake? overprivileged...
Posted by: DaBear
Comments are closed-
Posted by: nfarmwell on Apr 29, 2008 6:39 PM
Current rating: 4 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
As Pollan points out, the relative amount people spend on food has declined significantly over the last 30 years. In 1960, Americans spent 17.5 percent of the national income on food and 5 percent on health care. Today, spending on food has dropped to 10 percent of national income, while health-care spending has climbed to 16 percent. In this era of cheap energy, people who are poor have not gone as hungry as they would have otherwise. And consequently, for probably the first time in history, it is possible to be both overweight and undernourished. This means that cheap energy has allowed us all to paper over the problem of real poverty. Cheap oil was a kind of subsidy, for all of us, but at the tragic expense of our children's future of course.
As energy prices increase, we will be forced to face, finally, many uncomfortable realities. The true cost of oil will make alternative energy and alternative farming more competitive. In the absence of good social policy, it will also, sadly, make life harder for the poor. This it true and I am sympathetic. But to argue, as Philpott seems to, that the new plight of the poor in any way legitimates a system predicated on ill-health and corruption is misguided. The current plight of the poor needs to be seen as a consequence of that dysfunctional system, not as an argument in its favor.
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» Wait did we read the same article(s)?
Posted by: DaBear
» RE: Wait did we read the same article(s)?
Posted by: nfarmwell
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Posted by: DaBear on Apr 30, 2008 12:20 PM
Current rating: Not yet rated [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
If you live under local rules (100 milers or less) you can only buy from less than half the stands at a typical market, even less if you live in a Republikaaner city that doesn't require farmers to be at least organic or pesticide free. The local-food thing aside, even the farmer's market prices are going up, A LOT. $6/lb for potatoes, snap peas for $5/lb, an heirloom tomato is $3 per tomato, a Meyer lemon is $0.50 each. These prices are double what they were six months ago.
The nice owning class bitch a family-I-know rents from lets them grow their own food but her HOA is charging her for it and threatening to tear up the family's crop from their pots on the porch (those bean plants and lettuce will sure make property values go down, huh?). Course none of that matters since she's losing the place to foreclosure in two months and once more, the family-I-know'll be back on the street.
There's always the guerilla food our local anarchists planted in city landscaping, but that's subject to criminal consequences for harvesting, weeding, etc.
Food prices are criminal. The owning class is responsible. Time to make them pay for their parasitism. When you pick off a tick, you usually burn them...
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» Too Bad the Chip On Your Shoulder Isn't Made of Potatoes...
Posted by: grumble-bum
» RE: owning class stoopid and farmer's markets:grouch
Posted by: Fat Man at the Buffet Line
Comments are closed-
Posted by: MM1970 on Apr 30, 2008 7:27 PM
Current rating: Not yet rated [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Jar of PB at TJ's: 1.69
Loaf of bread at TJ's (16 slices): 1.99
Jam: We buy in bulk, $5 for 64 oz, not organic
Grand setback: $8.68.
But at 2 TBSP per sandwich, 10 sandwiches per week, that's 20 TBSP, which is 1.25 cups, which is just over half the jar of PB.
At 2 TBSP per sandwich, that's 1.25 cups of jam also.
That's 1.06 for PB, 0.78 for peanut butter. Now, you need 20 slices of bread, and you only get 16. So you need 1.25 loaves of bread, which is $2.49.
Which really sets you back $4.33 for 5 days, or $0.43 per sandwich.
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