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Environment

How New Energy Order Will Dramatically Change our Daily Lives

By Michael T. Klare, Tomdispatch.com. Posted April 16, 2008.


Get ready for a new world order in which energy will govern what we eat, where we live, and if and when we travel.
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rising powers
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It's strange that the business and geopolitics of energy takes up so little space on American front pages -- or that we could conduct an oil war in Iraq with hardly a mention of the words "oil" and "war" in the same paragraph in those same papers over the years. Strange indeed. And yet, oil rules our world and energy lies behind so many of the headlines that might seem to be about other matters entirely.


Take the food riots now spreading across the planet because the prices of staples are soaring, while stocks of basics are falling. In the last year, wheat (think flour) has risen by 130 percent, rice by 74 percent, soya by 87 percent, and corn by 31 percent, while there are now only eight to 12 weeks of cereal stocks left globally. Governments across the planetary map are shuddering. This is a fast growing horror story and, though the cry in the streets of Cairo and Port au Prince might be for bread, this, too, turns out to be a tale largely ruled by energy: Too many acres turned over to corn (and sugar cane) for the creation of biofuels; a historic drought in Australia and other climate-change-induced extremes of weather -- a result of the burning of fossil fuels -- that have affected crop yields; and many new middle-class consumers, in China and elsewhere, coming on line, with a growing desire for meat, the production of which is heavily petroleum based.

From resource wars to oil wars (the subjects of his last two books), Michael Klare, Tomdispatch's energy expert, has long been ahead of the curve when it came to ways in which our planet was being reshaped at the most basic level. Today, he offers Tomdispatch readers a peek into some of the key themes in his staggering new book, Rising Powers, Shrinking Planet: The New Geopolitics of Energy. If you want to grasp the true shape of our shaky world, of where exactly we've been and where we might be going, this is a book not to be missed. It offers the profile-in-formation of a shape-shifting planet, a planet in transition and on a road to nowhere pretty. Check out as well, the latest Tomdispatch brief video (produced by TD's Brett Story) -- in which Klare discusses key issues in his new book -- by clicking here. Introduction written by TomDispatch editor Tom Engelhardt.

The End of the World as You Know It

...and the Rise of the New Energy World Order
By Michael T. Klare


Oil at $110 a barrel. Gasoline at $3.35 (or more) per gallon. Diesel fuel at $4 per gallon. Independent truckers forced off the road. Home heating oil rising to unconscionable price levels. Jet fuel so expensive that three low-cost airlines stopped flying in the past few weeks. This is just a taste of the latest energy news, signaling a profound change in how all of us, in this country and around the world, are going to live -- trends that, so far as anyone can predict, will only become more pronounced as energy supplies dwindle and the global struggle over their allocation intensifies.


Energy of all sorts was once hugely abundant, making possible the worldwide economic expansion of the past six decades. This expansion benefited the United States above all -- along with its "First World" allies in Europe and the Pacific. Recently, however, a select group of former "Third World" countries -- China and India in particular -- have sought to participate in this energy bonanza by industrializing their economies and selling a wide range of goods to international markets. This, in turn, has led to an unprecedented spurt in global energy consumption -- a 47 percent rise in the past 20 years alone, according to the U.S. Department of Energy (DoE).


An increase of this sort would not be a matter of deep anxiety if the world's primary energy suppliers were capable of producing the needed additional fuels. Instead, we face a frightening reality: a marked slowdown in the expansion of global energy supplies just as demand rises precipitously. These supplies are not exactly disappearing -- though that will occur sooner or later -- but they are not growing fast enough to satisfy soaring global demand.


The combination of rising demand, the emergence of powerful new energy consumers, and the contraction of the global energy supply is demolishing the energy-abundant world we are familiar with and creating in its place a new world order. Think of it as: rising powers/shrinking planet.

This new world order will be characterized by fierce international competition for dwindling stocks of oil, natural gas, coal, and uranium, as well as by a tidal shift in power and wealth from energy-deficit states like China, Japan, and the United States to energy-surplus states like Russia, Saudi Arabia, and Venezuela. In the process, the lives of everyone will be affected in one way or another -- with poor and middle-class consumers in the energy-deficit states experiencing the harshest effects. That's most of us and our children, in case you hadn't quite taken it in.


Here, in a nutshell, are five key forces in this new world order which will change our planet:


1. Intense competition between older and newer economic powers for available supplies of energy: Until very recently, the mature industrial powers of Europe, Asia, and North America consumed the lion's share of energy and left the dregs for the developing world. As recently as 1990, the members of the Organization of Economic Cooperation and Development (OECD), the club of the world's richest nations, consumed approximately 57 percent of world energy; the Soviet Union/Warsaw Pact bloc, 14 percent percent; and only 29 percent was left to the developing world. But that ratio is changing: With strong economic growth in the developing countries, a greater proportion of the world's energy is being consumed by them. By 2010, the developing world's share of energy use is expected to reach 40 percent and, if current trends persist, 47 percent by 2030.


China plays a critical role in all this. The Chinese alone are projected to consume 17 percent of world energy by 2015, and 20 percent by 2025 -- by which time, if trend lines continue, it will have overtaken the United States as the world's leading energy consumer. India, which, in 2004, accounted for 3.4 percent of world energy use, is projected to reach 4.4 percent percent by 2025, while consumption in other rapidly industrializing nations like Brazil, Indonesia, Malaysia, Thailand, and Turkey is expected to grow as well.


These rising economic dynamos will have to compete with the mature economic powers for access to remaining untapped reserves of exportable energy -- in many cases, bought up long ago by the private energy firms of the mature powers like Exxon Mobil, Chevron, BP, Total of France, and Royal Dutch Shell. Of necessity, the new contenders have developed a potent strategy for competing with the Western "majors": they've created state-owned companies of their own and fashioned strategic alliances with the national oil companies that now control oil and gas reserves in many of the major energy-producing nations.


China's Sinopec, for example, has established a strategic alliance with Saudi Aramco, the nationalized giant once owned by Chevron and Exxon Mobil, to explore for natural gas in Saudi Arabia and market Saudi crude oil in China. Likewise, the China National Petroleum Corporation (CNPC) will collaborate with Gazprom, the massive state-controlled Russian natural gas monopoly, to build pipelines and deliver Russian gas to China. Several of these state-owned firms, including CNPC and India's Oil and Natural Gas Corporation, are now set to collaborate with Petróleos de Venezuela S.A. in developing the extra-heavy crude of the Orinoco belt once controlled by Chevron. In this new stage of energy competition, the advantages long enjoyed by Western energy majors has been eroded by vigorous, state-backed upstarts from the developing world.


2. The insufficiency of primary energy supplies: The capacity of the global energy industry to satisfy demand is shrinking. By all accounts, the global supply of oil will expand for perhaps another half-decade before reaching a peak and beginning to decline, while supplies of natural gas, coal, and uranium will probably grow for another decade or two before peaking and commencing their own inevitable declines. In the meantime, global supplies of these existing fuels will prove incapable of reaching the elevated levels demanded.


Take oil. The U.S. Department of Energy claims that world oil demand, expected to reach 117.6 million barrels per day in 2030, will be matched by a supply that -- miracle of miracles -- will hit exactly 117.7 million barrels (including petroleum liquids derived from allied substances like natural gas and Canadian tar sands) at the same time. Most energy professionals, however, consider this estimate highly unrealistic. "One hundred million barrels is now in my view an optimistic case," the CEO of Total, Christophe de Margerie, typically told a London oil conference in October 2007. "It is not my view; it is the industry view, or the view of those who like to speak clearly, honestly, and [are] not just trying to please people."


Similarly, the authors of the Medium-Term Oil Market Report, published in July 2007 by the International Energy Agency, an affiliate of the OECD, concluded that world oil output might hit 96 million barrels per day by 2012, but was unlikely to go much beyond that as a dearth of new discoveries made future growth impossible.


Daily business-page headlines point to a vortex of clashing trends: worldwide demand will continue to grow as hundred of millions of newly-affluent Chinese and Indian consumers line up to purchase their first automobile (some selling for as little as $2,500); key older "elephant" oil fields like Ghawar in Saudi Arabia and Canterell in Mexico are already in decline or expected to be so soon; and the rate of new oil-field discoveries plunges year after year. So expect global energy shortages and high prices to be a constant source of hardship.


3. The painfully slow development of energy alternatives: It has long been evident to policymakers that new sources of energy are desperately needed to compensate for the eventual disappearance of existing fuels as well as to slow the buildup of climate-changing "greenhouse gases" in the atmosphere. In fact, wind and solar power have gained significant footholds in some parts of the world. A number of other innovative energy solutions have already been developed and even tested out in university and corporate laboratories. But these alternatives, which now contribute only a tiny percentage of the world's net fuel supply, are simply not being developed fast enough to avert the multifaceted global energy catastrophe that lies ahead.


According to the U.S. Department of Energy, renewable fuels, including wind, solar, and hydropower (along with "traditional" fuels like firewood and dung), supplied but 7.4 percent of global energy in 2004; biofuels added another 0.3 percent. Meanwhile, fossil fuels -- oil, coal, and natural gas -- supplied 86 percent percent of world energy, nuclear power another 6 percent. Based on current rates of development and investment, the DoE offers the following dismal projection: In 2030, fossil fuels will still account for exactly the same share of world energy as in 2004. The expected increase in renewables and biofuels is so slight -- a mere 8.1 percent -- as to be virtually meaningless.


In global warming terms, the implications are nothing short of catastrophic: Rising reliance on coal (especially in China, India, and the United States) means that global emissions of carbon dioxide are projected to rise by 59 percent over the next quarter-century, from 26.9 billion metric tons to 42.9 billion tons. The meaning of this is simple. If these figures hold, there is no hope of averting the worst effects of climate change.


When it comes to global energy supplies, the implications are nearly as dire. To meet soaring energy demand, we would need a massive influx of alternative fuels, which would mean equally massive investment -- in the trillions of dollars -- to ensure that the newest possibilities move rapidly from laboratory to full-scale commercial production; but that, sad to say, is not in the cards. Instead, the major energy firms (backed by lavish U.S. government subsidies and tax breaks) are putting their mega-windfall profits from rising energy prices into vastly expensive (and environmentally questionable) schemes to extract oil and gas from Alaska and the Arctic, or to drill in the deep and difficult waters of the Gulf of Mexico and the Atlantic Ocean. The result? A few more barrels of oil or cubic feet of natural gas at exorbitant prices (with accompanying ecological damage), while non-petroleum alternatives limp along pitifully.


4. A steady migration of power and wealth from energy-deficit to energy-surplus nations: There are few countries -- perhaps a dozen altogether -- with enough oil, gas, coal, and uranium (or some combination thereof) to meet their own energy needs and provide significant surpluses for export. Not surprisingly, such states will be able to extract increasingly beneficial terms from the much wider pool of energy-deficit nations dependent on them for vital supplies of energy. These terms, primarily of a financial nature, will result in growing mountains of petrodollars being accumulated by the leading oil producers, but will also include political and military concessions.


In the case of oil and natural gas, the major energy-surplus states can be counted on two hands. Ten oil-rich states possess 82.2 percent of the world's proven reserves. In order of importance, they are: Saudi Arabia, Iran, Iraq, Kuwait, the United Arab Emirates, Venezuela, Russia, Libya, Kazakhstan, and Nigeria. The possession of natural gas is even more concentrated. Three countries -- Russia, Iran, and Qatar -- harbor an astonishing 55.8 percent of the world supply. All of these countries are in an enviable position to cash in on the dramatic rise in global energy prices and to extract from potential customers whatever political concessions they deem important.


The transfer of wealth alone is already mind-boggling. The oil-exporting countries collected an estimated $970 billion from the importing countries in 2006, and the take for 2007, when finally calculated, is expected to be far higher. A substantial fraction of these dollars, yen, and euros have been deposited in "sovereign-wealth funds" (SWFs), giant investment accounts owned by the oil states and deployed for the acquisition of valuable assets around the world. In recent months, the Persian Gulf SWFs have been taking advantage of the financial crisis in the United States to purchase large stakes in strategic sectors of its economy. In November 2007, for example, the Abu Dhabi Investment Authority (ADIA) acquired a $7.5 billion stake in Citigroup, America's largest bank holding company; in January, Citigroup sold an even larger share, worth $12.5 billion, to the Kuwait Investment Authority (KIA) and several other Middle Eastern investors, including Prince Walid bin Talal of Saudi Arabia. The managers of ADIA and KIA insist that they do not intend to use their newly-acquired stakes in Citigroup and other U.S. banks and corporations to influence U.S. economic or foreign policy, but it is hard to imagine that a financial shift of this magnitude, which can only gain momentum in the decades ahead, will not translate into some form of political leverage.


In the case of Russia, which has risen from the ashes of the Soviet Union as the world's first energy superpower, it already has. Russia is now the world's leading supplier of natural gas, the second largest supplier of oil, and a major producer of coal and uranium. Though many of these assets were briefly privatized during the reign of Boris Yeltsin, President Vladimir Putin has brought most of them back under state control -- in some cases, by exceedingly questionable legal means. He then used these assets in campaigns to bribe or coerce former Soviet republics on Russia's periphery reliant on it for the bulk of their oil and gas supplies. European Union countries have sometimes expressed dismay at Putin's tactics, but they, too, are dependent on Russian energy supplies, and so have learned to mute their protests to accommodate growing Russian power in Eurasia. Consider Russia a model for the new energy world order.


5. A Growing Risk of Conflict: Throughout history, major shifts in power have normally been accompanied by violence -- in some cases, protracted violent upheavals. Either states at the pinnacle of power have struggled to prevent the loss of their privileged status, or challengers have fought to topple those at the top of the heap. Will that happen now? Will energy-deficit states launch campaigns to wrest the oil and gas reserves of surplus states from their control -- the Bush administration's war in Iraq might already be thought of as one such attempt -- or to eliminate competitors among their deficit-state rivals?


The high costs and risks of modern warfare are well known and there is a widespread perception that energy problems can best be solved through economic means, not military ones. Nevertheless, the major powers are employing military means in their efforts to gain advantage in the global struggle for energy, and no one should be deluded on the subject. These endeavors could easily enough lead to unintended escalation and conflict.


One conspicuous use of military means in the pursuit of energy is obviously the regular transfer of arms and military-support services by the major energy-importing states to their principal suppliers. Both the United States and China, for example, have stepped up their deliveries of arms and equipment to oil-producing states like Angola, Nigeria, and Sudan in Africa and, in the Caspian Sea basin, Azerbaijan, Kazakhstan, and Kyrgyzstan. The United States has placed particular emphasis on suppressing the armed insurgency in the vital Niger Delta region of Nigeria, where most of the country's oil is produced; Beijing has emphasized arms aid to Sudan, where Chinese-led oil operations are threatened by insurgencies in both the South and Darfur.


Russia is also using arms transfers as an instrument in its efforts to gain influence in the major oil- and gas-producing regions of the Caspian Sea basin and the Persian Gulf. Its urge is not to procure energy for its own use, but to dominate the flow of energy to others. In particular, Moscow seeks a monopoly on the transportation of Central Asian gas to Europe via Gazprom's vast pipeline network; it also wants to tap into Iran's mammoth gas fields, further cementing Russia's control over the trade in natural gas.


The danger, of course, is that such endeavors, multiplied over time, will provoke regional arms races, exacerbate regional tensions, and increase the danger of great-power involvement in any local conflicts that erupt. History has all too many examples of such miscalculations leading to wars that spiral out of control. Think of the years leading up to World War I. In fact, Central Asia and the Caspian today, with their multiple ethnic disorders and great-power rivalries, bear more than a glancing resemblance to the Balkans in the years leading up to 1914.


What this adds up to is simple and sobering: the end of the world as you've known it. In the new, energy-centric world we have all now entered, the price of oil will dominate our lives and power will reside in the hands of those who control its global distribution.


In this new world order, energy will govern our lives in new ways and on a daily basis. It will determine when, and for what purposes, we use our cars; how high (or low) we turn our thermostats; when, where, or even if, we travel; increasingly, what foods we eat (given that the price of producing and distributing many meats and vegetables is profoundly affected by the cost of oil or the allure of growing corn for ethanol); for some of us, where to live; for others, what businesses we engage in; for all of us, when and under what circumstances we go to war or avoid foreign entanglements that could end in war.


This leads to a final observation: The most pressing decision facing the next president and Congress may be how best to accelerate the transition from a fossil-fuel-based energy system to a system based on climate-friendly energy alternatives.

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Michael T. Klare is a professor of peace and world security studies at Hampshire College in Amherst, Mass., and the author of Blood and Oil: The Dangers and Consequences of America's Growing Petroleum Dependency.

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Read The Long Emergency & Twilight in the Desert
Posted by: NoPCZone on Apr 16, 2008 12:23 AM   
Current rating: 4    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Kunstler nailed it and everybody in the MSM called it an interesting, but unlikely book. Matt Simmons warned of Peak Oil and it's obvious that we are in the midst of it. Same kind of reviews from many in the MSM- dismissive while saying it's thought provoking.

The old Chinese curse saying 'may you live in interesting times' has been invoked. Interesting times indeed.

[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]

» Wrong Posted by: xi_people
» RE: Geothermal Energy can fill our energy needs Posted by: rfrancis@godisdead.com
So what did Cheney's energy commission discuss
Posted by: SENILEBIKER on Apr 16, 2008 12:33 AM   
Current rating: 4    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
This story is not new. In the 1970's when I was a student, we discussed the Club of Rome's "Limits to Growth", which said the exact same thing, but with different numbers.

So then you get to the famous "classified" energy discussions of Cheney in 2001, and it is hard to work out what was on the agenda? And is it surprising that a few months later, the PNAC'ers decided to fabricate reasons to invade the one oil producer that was already dominated by the US military?

In their view, this is not a war on terror, but a war of survival of their way of life - not religious but economic. It was all written on the PNAC site.

[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]

» I was just thinking the same. Posted by: Artkansas
» Limits to growth... Posted by: ahmlco
» RE: Limits to growth... Posted by: photon's feather
Michael T. Klare knows a lot about fossil fuels. . .
Posted by: thoughtcriminal on Apr 16, 2008 1:54 AM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
but the fact is enough sunlight falls on the earth in one hour to power all of human society for one year.

The reason that sunlight and wind haven't been tapped as energy sources has nothing to do with technological barriers or economic ones. It's because entrenched interests in fossil fuels have been working hard to a) stimulate demand for fossil fuels and b) sabotage efforts to build large scale renewable energy and efficient transportation infrastructure - electric trains, electric cars, solar PV factories, wind turbine factories, etc.

As a result, if you want to buy solar panels in the U.S., you'll probably have to get them from Europe or Japan. This is changing - but very slowly, because the funding sources, i.e. banks, are more interested in controlling oil reserves and gambling on credit derivatives than in investing in expensive infrastructure.

Here are a few links for the doubters:

U.S. scientists have solar power plan, UPI

Stunning Solar Building Will Generate More Power Than It Needs, ENN

Abu Dhabi unveil plans for sustainable city

You won't read much about such initiatives in the U.S. corporate press because the likes of NewsCorp, TimeWarner, Viacom-CBS, General Electric, Disney and the other corporate media outlets are all owned by the very same funds and banks that are deeply invested in fossil fuels and do not want to have to invest all their profits into new infrastructure.

Where exactly do you think that all the cash that had previously been invested in subprimes has gone to as people have dumped those stocks? Commodities! Food, oil, water - the basics. So what led to the spikes?

1. The subprime collapse and the rush of speculative finance out of dirty loan packages and into commodities - Costly food? Investors only partly to blame - Reuters

2. The rise in the price of fossil fuels, and the immediate knock-on effect on food transport costs and fertilizer costs.

3. Global warming is destroying food crops at an ever-increasing rate - for example, Arkansas winter wheat crop hit by flooding, Mar 2008. This results in steady price increases.

4. Globalizaton has resulted in monopolies in which countries like Africa and Indonesia are dependent on U.S. food imports for their very survival. This allows the likes of Cargill and ADM to jack up prices as much as they wish - because they've cornered the market by undercutting local farmers for years under the rules allowed by U.S. "bilateral trade agreements." That's the real reason corn prices spiked in Mexico recently.

5. Increased demand for grains by countries that want to set up U.S.-style meat feedlot operations dominated by grain-feeding. In the real world, cows and goats are meant to eat grass, not grains.

6. Increased demand for biofuels produced from commodity crops. This points out the central issue that everyone always ignores: industrial agriculture (i.e. the "Green Revolution" model trumpted by Monsanto, Syngenta etc.) is a disaster. We need to end the practice entirely and switch to an entirely renewable, organic agricultural system dominated by independent farmers, not corporate conglomerates.

Compare that list of food price influences with the shoddy analysis put out by Paul Krugman at the NYT - he doesn't think commodity speculation is involved.

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» RE: Michael T. Klare knows a lot about fossil fuels. . . Posted by: Fat Man at the Buffet Line
» well, no Posted by: abbadon2007
» Your argument falls apart Posted by: suprmark
» RE: Stupid is as stupid does, but that proves nothing ... Posted by: Fat Man at the Buffet Line
» RE: Your argument falls apart Posted by: Squarehead
» Thank you 'thoughtcriminal'! Posted by: agathena
» Nader Over 30-Years Ago Posted by: mcartri
» Not true Posted by: PaulC
Helloooo! It's castles and peons again?
Posted by: nzo on Apr 16, 2008 2:00 AM   
Current rating: 4    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
It's back to the ones inside the castle walls and the poor sods outside who do their bidding?

Think again. You will either learn to live in cooperation and dare I say it, friendship, or you will be expunged from the face of the earth as if you and your greedy corporations have never existed. Not even a memory of you will remain.

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The Coming Energy Crisis ... Starvation, Economic Collapse and War.
Posted by: mmckinl on Apr 16, 2008 2:09 AM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Miichael Klare is a brilliant analyst and has been writing on Peak Oil for over 3 years now. One of the first articles I read on Peak Oil was in The Nation written by Michael Klare.

Crude Awakening

We now know that demand for oil is out running supply by the price of oil. The weaker dollar and speculation cannot explain the current price of oil of above $110 a barrel. Just 9 years ago it was selling below $20 a barrel, 1/5th today's price, a five fold increase. We also know that oil production was lower in 2007 than 2006 even though the world economy was growing at over 4%.

What's important to note is that even with the increase in the price of oil, oil supply has not kept up.

Michael Klare presents a picture of war for these resources. Even before war breaks out, starvation will ravage the planet. Poor countries will only have the means to feed a fraction of their population.

The industrialized countries will be suffering severe recessions and political will to subsidize seemingly hopeless food situations in unimportant locations will not happen. Hundreds of millions perhaps over a billion will starve to death. Contiguous countries with previous animosity towards one another will see politicians banging the war drums. We see this happening already around the world, it will only get worse.

We already see Europe securing it's oil and gas supplies from Russia and Iran via pipeline. That leaves the Anglo nations with Japan, India and China as competing interests in the oil and gas competition. Pakistan and Iran will be wildcards in this game.

As the financial and agricultural systems in these competing countries fail, and joblessness and hunger multiply, the pressure to act will become politically impossible to contain. The driving force behind these financial and agricultural failures, and militarization, has in the past and will be again "leveraged debt banking" , known as "fractional reserve banking" by the private bankers.

Why is this so? Because leveraged debt banking cannot survive with out geometric economic growth to supply the ever increasing supply of money to service the massive debts of society. With the failure of the banking system will come the breakdown of the economy to the point where food and fuel become ever more scarce. Massive layoffs, hunger and then violence will proliferate. The politicians will have to use military spending to bolster the money supply and then find a villain. War will be imminent.

There is a way out. Reforming the banking system so that the reduction in economic activity can be managed foregoing the crash that 'fractional reserve' banking will cause. A new banking system using credit money, a money supply printed by our Treasury, not the Fed, that would not contract with the contraction in the economy. Thus the economy, although diminished, would not crash.

It is time for a Public Central Bank, operating under the Treasury, to take control of our money supply. Cooperation for resource allocation could then divert war while countries reformulated their economic systems to cope with the available energy supplies. War would make the situation far worse as energy supply lines would be cut and energy sources destroyed while only God knows how many people would perish.

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» RE: change the bank system..lol Posted by: wittler youth
Very well analyzed and written report of the world situation!
Posted by: nmfoss on Apr 16, 2008 2:48 AM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Im very happy to read articles like this, even though they do impose a very dark and cruel reality and future. Reason is that it is of essence to understand the mechanics of this situation.

From my own experience I was in northern Thailand when the current Iraqi war startet and oil prices soared. Thailand is not a developing country, but still oil prices and the price of transportation of any goods like food from the coastlines to inland was IMEDIATLY noticed. Prices in stores plunged, and people parked their cars, transportation companies i.e. bus, train saw huge losses because of the need to keep prices low to keep flow and volume in travelers. This is what happened in a pretty developed country... what we see in Haiti today can soon happen for countries higher in the "food chain".

A point I would like to add to this article is the conection between coastal and inland costs. Most transportation of any goods origins from coastal towns with freighters to inlands with trailers. I think we will see a migration of people to coastlines because of cheaper prices there compared to inland prices with the extra and now fast growing transportation costs. What this would result in I dont know, but perhaps huge coastal towns with large slums and great poverty. Inland economies collaps.

We live in interresting times indeed.

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» Maybe in Thailand... Posted by: Cooltruth
» RE: Maybe in Thailand... Posted by: nmfoss
» Haiti? No. Posted by: ahmlco
How corporate interests sabotage renewable energy initiatives:
Posted by: thoughtcriminal on Apr 16, 2008 3:33 AM   
Current rating: 4    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
I live in California and I've closely followed the efforts to move solar PV into the market, which have been fought tooth and nail by the big energy importers in California, such as PG&E, Chevron, and Sempra Energy.

In the first round, they got the Million Solar Roofs proposal killed. In the second round, they managed to attach a rider that killed "net metering" - meaning that people who installed a solar panel system couldn't sell power back. Look at the language in the bill:

"Crediting Consumers for Excess Power Produced: Consumers who install solar panels on their homes and businesses can sell excess energy back to power companies for credit on their monthly bills. This credit is a key incentive for consumers to install solar panels. Currently, the cap on the number of customers who can use this option is .5 percent. SB 1 raises this to 2.5 percent. Raising the ceiling will provide part of the needed financial incentive to bring more solar power on to the grid."

2.5 percent - so if more than 2.5 percent of Californians put solar on their houses, they won't be able to sell it back to the utility.

It's the same across the board. Every wind turbine proposal and biofuel proposal is fought by a network of fossil fuel and utility PR firms. The only places in California that have seen solar programs take off are those communities that have publicly owned utilities - Sacramento and Palo Alto.

The thing is, PG&E and Sempra and Chevron are all owned by the same investors! Their agenda is to import coal-fired electricity and liquified natural gas and heavy sour crude into the state, and that's their planned energy future!

There are a great many investors, but you see the same names pop up over and over again in the areas of fossil fuels and electric utilities (also in telecoms, pharmaceuticals, agribusiness, weapons & government contracting). For example, look at two leading global banks that are heavily invested in fossil fuels - Barclays and State Street:

Edison International major shareholders
Barclays Global Investors UK Holdings Ltd
$1,898,172,790
STATE STREET CORPORATION
$1,814,422,771

Sempra Energy major shareholders
Barclays Global Investors UK Holdings
$822,772,692
STATE STREET CORPORATION
$623,680,908

Chevron major shareholders
STATE STREET CORPORATION
$8,356,486,810
Barclays Global Investors UK Holdings Ltd
$7,772,350,019

Edison sells electricity, Sempra sells natural gas, and Chevron owns what used to be Unocal's Burmese natural gas concession. The goal is to take natural gas from Burma, ship it in liquified form to terminals in Mexico (operated by Sempra), and then use it to run Edison and PG&E power plants all across the state. The shareholders know this.

If, instead, California switches to renewable energy - solar and wind and biofuels - then the entire business plan of these three gigantic corporations and the trillion-dollar banks that own them will be kaput.

State Street Corporation is also the sole manager of the California Public Employee Retirement System - CALPERS - and they make damn sure that that $200 billion fund does not invest in renewable energy! They also control the UC system funds - same type of mentality.

How many millions will they spend to keep on polluting the air and frying the planet? Many, I'm afraid - and they've got the majority of our politicians firmly in their pockets.

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» THE UGLY TRUTH WITHIN... Posted by: skizum
An intensely "local" future
Posted by: xi_people on Apr 16, 2008 5:02 AM   
Current rating: 4    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
I've been telling anyone who would listen for the past three years (and there haven't been many) that the days of easy global transportation for the masses is coming to a close. No more hopping on planes to fly where one chooses, for anything resembling a "reasonable" price.

Look for massive consolidation in the airline industry. Smaller lines will drop out, as they are already starting to do, and the larger ones will combine for survival. It won't work. In an era of energy scarcity, the airline industry business model -- which, more than any other is dependent upon cheap oil -- is not viable. The same could be said of the "American way of life."

If you're not in a locality where you might be able to survive extensive periods of energy shortages, then you better get moving. Once TSHTF, pretty much no one is moving anywhere, unless its by foot or bicycle.

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» RE: An intensely "local" future Posted by: andabottleof_rum
» RE: An intensely "local" future Posted by: Fat Man at the Buffet Line
» Reality check Posted by: Ignatz deFyre
» RE: bikes!....... Posted by: wittler youth
too many....
Posted by: dsmidiman on Apr 16, 2008 5:19 AM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
You put too many rats in a space without enough food water and room and the rats start killing off each other to get the food and water and the room to survive. This is what our world is quickly becoming. It's called survival of the fittest.

Sadly, there are ways to make it work for everyone but it requires collectively working together for the common good of all people. We humans are no smarter than rats when it comes to this way of thinking. We are so driven by power, greed and control that we can't see the forest from the trees.

The people driving the buses in our world are convinced that the answer is to become so rich and powerful that they and only they have the ability to control who gets the resources to survive and who doesn't. The deciding factor(s) of who does and who doesn't survive is/will be based on those who are willing to except and live life the way the people driving the buses dictate. There is some truth to the fact that someone(s) has to drive the buses but when those drivers are fueled by power control and greed instead of equality and the common good of ALL we have the situation we have today in the world.

If only the money being spent on the war(s) being waged in our world in order to gain power and control was being spent on alternative ways to make it work for all peoples it would be a no brainer. But in order to do that it would mean those people driving the buses would loose a good part of thier wealth which in turn means loosing power and control. Sadly this will never happen.

History has shown us time and time again that power, greed, control and ultimate dictatorship always ends in disaster sooner or later. It will end that way this time also....

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CASH IN and BAIL OUT!
Posted by: williameon on Apr 16, 2008 5:25 AM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
The Dinosaurs are going down.
The Micro-Democracy Revolution!

Create your own Micro-Democracy right Now!

Think outside of
The Corpirate Box.

Leave The Corrupt Bush/Chain-Gang System behind and
Beginning with a
Fresh set of Ideals and Goals.
How can we build a viable, sustainable, peaceful future?

Take what is left of your resources and join:
A Sustainable Communities Program or
Create your own project.

Pick an appropriate location or start where you are.
It is a win, win situation.
You win your families Freedom and Independence.
From The Corpirate Dictatorship.

The Model:
A Community based on the concept that:
It is a Colony on a remote Island.
Build a carefully designed, self contained system.
Using: recyclable, Renewable, self perpetuating, sustainable, green energy resources and manufacturing techniques.

A Community that provides for its inhabitants needs: manufacturing, educating, banking, organic food, passive solar, high –r buildings, the local media and the arts.
The Community is a cooperative held in Trust.
Only the individual homes are individually owned as Co-ops.

Everyone is looking for a leader to lead us out of this mess.
The day of the Martha is over and the day of the Doer is at hand.
Complete Decentralization.
We must provide the good example.
The future is shaped by those that seize the moment.
That Opportunity and Time is Now!

Take the best of what we know and start your own:
Micro Democracy Experiment.
Withdraw your support from
The Corpirates and
Their Evil Empire will collapse even sooner.

Rely on yourself and your neighbors.
We have tryed to change the system from within for
Decades!
It is a failure.
Give up on it and
The system has grown stronger and our freedoms have gotten weaker.
It is time to start over using a completely
Different Model.
One that we control, build and benefit from.
A Decentralized One that reaffirms our
We must re-affirm our positive Ideals and Goals:
To Live in Peace and Harmony with our Environment, Neighbors and Friends:
Independently and Free.
Let’s take the best of what we know and move on,
Creating a better and brighter Tomorrow!

Provide the opportunity for our children to co-create their own future.
The possibilities exists.
Pick the Path and stay on it.

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» Sounds like.. Posted by: Marlena
» smart thing to do.... Posted by: veggiegrrrl
» RE: smart thing to do.... Posted by: Fat Man at the Buffet Line
» go find a farmer... Posted by: veggiegrrrl
» RE: go find a farmer... Posted by: Fat Man at the Buffet Line
» RE: smart thing to do.... hey Fat Man Posted by: Fat Man at the Buffet Line
» RE:barrio in a brazil garbage dump? Posted by: wittler youth
Ha
Posted by: g50 on Apr 16, 2008 5:53 AM   
Current rating: 1    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
A good number of ya'll are just plain nuts.

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US Soldiers fighting so they can be Poor in the Future
Posted by: US Citizen on Apr 16, 2008 6:12 AM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
I think there is a common misconception about the Iraq War that it is being fought to help the United States get cheaper oil. The Iraq War is being fought so the major oil companies can get control of another major source of oil, so that they can have a monopoly on the supply of oil which allows them to raise oil and gasoline prices world wide. The Iraq War has already been successful in this goal. The Iraq War is directly against the best interests of the great majority of United States citizens. So here we have US soldiers fighting against their own and their families' best economic interests. The soldiers are fighting so their families can be poor in the future.

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PURE BULLSHIT ! No discussion about the ways Big Oil and Coal are STIFLING growth in alt renewables
Posted by: maxpayne on Apr 16, 2008 6:14 AM   
Current rating: 3    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
This article is way outdated even though it may be truthful. Could we instead have a discussion about the way Big Oil and Coal are using phoney patents to stifle growth in solar and wind or even continuously lobbying BIG GOVERNMENT to keep the 26000 uses of hemp OFF the "free" market? In addition, it would be helpful to get the progressive and liberal shit together and actually go on the offensive against Big Oil and Coal by taking down the pols in Washington serving them like puppets. This "end of the world" bullshit is not a way to get us out of our current difficulties. Everybody already knows all that shit but now it's time for real solutions. Let's get to work on repairing public transportation by fighting for light rails in place of coal-wasting trains or even keeping bus fares reasonably priced rather than OBSCENELY high-priced. And why not build bike and walkway paths so that more people can actually bike or walk to work rather than be forced to sit through very heavy traffic? I don't see the so-called "environmentalists" giving those kinds of ideas any food for thought. And I'm not even talking about solar, wind, hemp, etc ... although I think they'd be great once crummy professors such as this author would point out the truth about solar and wind actually helping solve a great deal of the world's actually energy needs. And with hemp, all the petroleum that goes into manufacturing just about every plastics can be replaced with hemp. Listening to this crummy professor is as "good" as listening to Pat FUCKING Robertson talking about the "apocalypse" BULLSHIT !

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» REALLY PISSED OFF? Posted by: skizum
» RE: ALLY PISSED OFF? Posted by: maxpayne
» BTW... Posted by: skizum
» NO SWEAT... Posted by: skizum
How else could we crash?
Posted by: leemiller38 on Apr 16, 2008 6:55 AM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
The most likely scenario to end this human outbreak in population is by disease, starvation and war, that is the way it goes according to Malthus and that apparently is a natural law you can count on. Oil is the ingredient that has produced our current civilization and boom in population by increasing our food supply.
Each human in the U.S. will use over 1000 barrels of oil in a lifetime. Hence every successful contraception and abortion should be welcomed as an energy conservation boon to stretch out our supply and put off the inevitable crash when oil and food become scarce. At the same time we are running out of cheap oil and consequently food, 75 million new humans are getting onboard this crowded and degraded planet per year. We should be limiting our numbers severely by a one child policy, but alas we aren't that smart so nature will do the job more effectively at some point.

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» Birth rates... Posted by: ahmlco
The Four Grim Horsemen
Posted by: DrGeneNelson on Apr 16, 2008 7:05 AM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
The second paragraph of the article begins, "Take the food riots now spreading across the planet because the prices of staples are soaring,.."

The fundamental problem is soaring populations, far in excess of the carrying capacity of the local economy.

We are the only species that can develop an accurate model of the future. http://www.Census.gov shows the current world population at 6.66 billion on 16 April 2008. The world population has doubled in about 40 years. Much of that population growth is the consequence of inexpensive petroleum, which fueled the "green revolution."

Eventually, the world population will be forced to match available resources. Absent voluntary (or coerced) population control, the means include war, famine, and disease. The latter three are painful.

While there were futurists and environmentalists who raised concerns about U.S. overpopulation in the 1970s, they were shouted down by special interests who understood the concept "overpopulation is profitable." Labor gluts drive down middle-class wages. Population gluts drive up the price of the necessaries of life. Usually, the economic beneficiaries of overpopulation are members of the economic elite.

I remember a bumper sticker from about 40 years ago, "condoms, not condominiums." Will our species understand these concepts before it is too late?

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» Right. Those idiots... Posted by: ahmlco
Imminent world disater nothing new under the sun
Posted by: peterpiano on Apr 16, 2008 7:13 AM   
Current rating: 4    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
My head is reeling from reading this article, and
it as if we are all sleeping at the switch and don't want to know or realize the dire consequences of consumption which is the
American way of life. Now other countries want to be part of the action and there isn't enough to go around to give them an endless supply of energy to fuel their economies. I just see it this as Henry Ford's Dream gone array. Our romance with the automobile and the infernal combustion engine has brought us to an impasse.
Strange that we were able to fight two world wars and many other skirmishes that used fossil fuels to make the planes, tanks and military machines go. There always seems to be enough fuel to fight wars and we don't have to worry about a nuclear exchange in the mean time to do us in. The seed of destruction have been planted
all the the long with industrialization of the planet and the military is used to go about its business so that we can maintain a hold on what we so desperately need. Electric cars, trains, solar energy, wind power and renewable resources are available, but I don't see anyone in rush to
encourage the alternatives, since big oil has a strangle hold on the world. The war in Iraq is propounded on the idea that we have to get those
terrorists while this is just a cover to control the region and the liquid gold that lies therein. Its the same old thing over and over again, anyone remember the 70's and the post Vietnam Era where we waited in line with odd and even plates designated to be entitled to the fuel on given days? Isn't there a photo Rumsfeld
shaking hands with Saddam in 1979. Interesting how we ingratiate ourselves with the countries that we need to keep us up and running. So this article with its global forecast of doom and gloom is nothing new under the sun as if we didn't know that this is imminent. What to do then? What actions need to be take to avert the inevitable demise of the planet? To bad that the article points out all this negative news and
doesn't talk too much about how to turn it around.

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» RE: 1979 hand shake Posted by: wittler youth
DIE, LIFESTYLE, DIE!!!
Posted by: edgeofnowhere on Apr 16, 2008 7:31 AM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
"Replacing" fossil fuels with an alternative source of energy in order to enable us to maintain our present lifestyle is not possible. Be it solar, nuclear or methane from chickenshit -- it ain't gonna happen! What we need to "replace" is the hideously consumptive "lifestyle" we have come to regard as a natural right. Whether we like it or not, our world is going to contract radically in the next half century, giving rise to a new emphasis on local and regional society. No more blueberries from Chile. Forget about that jetaway vacation to Hawaii. Anyway, you'll probably be too busy trying to get enough food to eat. This will probably not come about gently, so buckle up folks!

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» YES Posted by: Democratic Socialist
missing link
Posted by: shikejian on Apr 16, 2008 7:35 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
What's missing in all this is the impending financial crisis for the world: a depression greater than The Great Depression on the 1930's. Taking this into account changes things immensely. Resource rich nations will find no one can afford their resources and the needy will have to fall back on really developing alternatives and means by which existing resources are used in a more maximally productive manner. The article is based, then, on no change to present states, no change in variables. A very dangerous assumption.

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Doomed on the Titanic?
Posted by: writerman on Apr 16, 2008 8:07 AM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
The last thirty odd years, the so-called Reagan and Thatcher (counter)revolutions have been an unmitigated disaster seen from an environmental and social perspective.

Instead of building on, and extending the 'reforms' of the 1960's, the reverse happened. Instead of more liberty, equality and fraternity; a kind of humane socialism; we got short-sighted greed and Capitalism's last stand.

Iraq is the model for the future of western capitalism, not a temporary aboration or a mistake. At it's core Capitalism is a form of crime, but a culturally sanctione crime, like slavery which has always been an integral and vital ingredient. 'Free' labour is vital in such a system in order to provide profits and growth.

If we had started thirty years ago, weening ourselves off of fossil fuels, the transformation to a post-fossil fuel society would have been difficult but managable - only we didn't, so the changes we now face are going to be very, very, difficult indeed.

Personally I doubt that 'Western-style' democracy is really up to the challenge, some form of 'Facist' dictatorship is likely to emerge as the ruling elites 'answer' to problems of scarcity. This will not be pretty to watch or live under.

The solution to our problems would appear to be a radical transformation of society towards something resembling 'socialism'. The 'free-market' and Capitalism unbound are leading us towards the edge of a cliff at lighting speed. It may already be too late to avert disaster, but that doesn't mean we shouldn't at least try. In the face of barbarism trying to maintain civilization's best characteristics has a certain nobility, at least one goes down still human being rather than a beast. And isn't this what Capitalism really is underneath, a form of beastiality?

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» RE: Doomed on the Titanic? Posted by: mnatra
Whitewash!
Posted by: Iconoclast421 on Apr 16, 2008 8:43 AM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
He actually talked about exports, even dared to use the phrase "exportable energy", but I think he whitewashed it a bit.

Google "ELM iron triangle".

As exporting nations gain wealth, their own consumption rises at a very high rate, causing exports to be reduced. Once oil production peaks in an exporting nation, it only takes less than a decade for their net exports to be reduced to ZERO. This has happened in many exporting countries. It is currently happening to mexico. Imagine what happens to the US when mexico becomes a net importer of oil? It seems like the game will be over before that happens, but then again, that is exactly where mexico is headed, in less than 5 years.

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Even if
Posted by: willymack on Apr 16, 2008 11:03 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Vast new "energy" sources are discovered or developed, just in time to save the day for our insanely wasteful and irresponsible "way of life", should we go ahead and burn the stuff, thereby adding huge amounts of co2 into an atmosphere already overloaded with it? Even prezdint numbskull has broken down and admitted there's a problem and it needs fixin'. One quick, although unpopular solution to our energy problem would be to seize the oil, coal, and gas company assets and put them to use in financing an intense research program to develop an energy source that doesn't involve burning anything. Let's face it; the energy companies have had it their way too long, and shouldn't be treated as royalty, when in fact they're nothing but money obsessed low lifes.

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NATIONALIZE THE AMERICA OIL INDUSTRY ...YOU IDIOTS..!
Posted by: TJ-stars4peace on Apr 16, 2008 11:57 AM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
This is why we must Nationalize the American Oil Industry and eventually all energy such as electric power...

If we Nationalized our Oil industry alone we could cut costs by 30-35% and still have nearly $60 billion per year for alternative energy sources and also to invest in new technologies..

Running our nations energy for profit undermines commerce..it is crippling our economy not strengthening it..

Were we to Nationalize our Oil Companies and all holdings we would create an economic boom..that would benefit every American and American company across the board..!

Also you realize of course that every second the Sun produces more energy every second that mankind has used in his entire history on Earth...!

Now there is new technology the blackest of all know black in the universe which only allows .014% of any sunlight to escape this is accomplished threw nano tubes..so we are on the threshold of a new level of solar panels and efficiency..

This is just one source and endless for the most part source of energy and power along with wind which is also seeing breakthroughs as well as turbines..which can be placed in rivers such as the mighty Hudson imagine we here up state and NYC has a river as powerful as the Hudson running by and we pay through the nose for electricity..!

The most successful Oil Companies are all now State run world wide and it only makes sense..!

When Exxon Mobil makes $38 billion and spends $37 billion of that as the did last year buying back their own stock do you realize what a waste that is an obscene waste..$37 billion that could have gone to advancing our nation and we Americans as a people and then to make it a complete abomination this Administration wants to give them $15 billion in subsidies..! Subsidies..! It's obscene a perversion of biblical magnitude..!

These idiots running for president and our Congress say they want a Manhattan type project for energy well this is it..!

NATIONALIZE THE AMERICAN OIL INDUSTRY..YOU IDIOTS..!


Ps. The Airlines too..!

And Single Payer non profit Health Care..!

Peg the sub prime mortgages at 3% above the fed or Prime rate that problem would be solved as well..!


Ok go back to praising Obama for his bowling in a bathing suit while drinking "bitters.."..

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WHy rich people cannot and should not be permitted to run things
Posted by: DaBear on Apr 16, 2008 2:26 PM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Based on current rates of development and investment, the DoE offers the following dismal projection: In 2030, fossil fuels will still account for exactly the same share of world energy as in 2004. The expected increase in renewables and biofuels is so slight -- a mere 8.1 percent -- as to be virtually meaningless.

This is often used as an excuse to do nothing to get more rooftops on PVs and more ridgelines topped with turbines.

Fact is, by the time rich people do something it'll be too god dammed late. Every rooftop that doesn't have PVs or Solar heating on top in the Amerikaaner SW is a criminal behavior. Every town or city that doesn't zone-in solar and wind, at minimum, is ruled by liars and cheats; rich people. Criminal liability needs to be laid at their feet since they're our "deciders"... fuckers.

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Eat the rich, blow up a hummer, BBQ a banker/oilman/corporatist ceo/
Posted by: thekidde on Apr 16, 2008 3:25 PM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
... "not with a bang, but a whimper" bye, bye humanity you didn't last even as long as the dinosaurs because you were too greedy for your own good.

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PEAK OIL IS A LIE
Posted by: HANGTRAITORS on Apr 16, 2008 7:07 PM   
Current rating: 1    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
THIS IS ANOTHER CONTRIVED CRISIS BY THE RIGGED UN-FREE MARKET. FACT IS, THE TECH TO BURY THE OIL ECONOMY IS VERY OLD. ALL SHORTAGES IN ALL IMPORTANT MARKETS ARE PAINSTAKINGLY CONTRIVED BY THE OLIGARCHS,, YOU PEAK OIL IDIOTS MAKE ME SICK!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
WATCH THE ENERGY NON CRISIS HERE.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7o_00kWXjjQ

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WHERES MY 1981 48 MPG VW RABBIT????
Posted by: HANGTRAITORS on Apr 16, 2008 7:21 PM   
Current rating: 2    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
DONT YOU SEE AN ODD COINCIDENCE BETWEEN THE 10 MPG SUV CRAZE AND SUDDEN RISE IN GAS PRICES? THIS WAS ALL PLANNED TO EXTORT YOUR MONEY LONG AGO... YOU ARE THE FOOD.. THE INTERNAL COMBUSTION ENGINE HAS NOT BEEN MODIFIED IN 100 YEARS , DONT YOU SEE A PROBLEM WITH THAT?.. 100 MPG WAS ACHIEVED 50 YEARS AGO... WHY DONT YOU GOOGLE WHAT NICOLAI TESLA DID IN 1898? PEAK OIL IS A LIE..................

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7o_00kWXjjQ

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We have enough nuclear fuel for FIVE THOUSAND YEARS
Posted by: AsteroidMiner on Apr 16, 2008 10:20 PM   
Current rating: 1    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
according to "Environmentalists for Nuclear Energy", by B. Comby. "Breeding"
fissionable fuel and recycling nuclear fuel greatly extends the supply. We have
many possible uranium mines that we haven't started mining. The reasons we are
not doing so are political and psychological. Most people have an irrational fear
of anything nuclear caused by coal industry propaganda.

Everything, including yourself, is made of atoms. All atoms have nuclei. You
have many atomic nuclei inside yourself since you are made of atoms. The
simplest nucleus is one proton. That would be a hydrogen atom. An oxygen
atom has 8 protons and either 8, 9 or 10 neutrons in its nucleus. All other nuclei
also have neutrons. Uranium has 92 protons and either 143 or 146 neutrons. If it
has 143 neutrons it is U235. If it has 146 neutrons, it is U238. Nuclear fuel is
only 2% to 8% U235, the kind that fissions/divides, providing energy. The rest is
U238 that doesn't fission. A nuclear reaction happens when a neutron is captured
by a nucleus. If a U235 nucleus captures a neutron, the nucleus and the atom split
approximately in half and 2 or 3 neutrons are released because the 2 smaller
nuclei don't need so many neutrons. If a U238 nucleus captures a neutron, it
ejects an electron and the neutron becomes a proton. The U238 thus becomes
Plutonium 239. Plutonium is fissionable, which means that plutonium is a good
fuel. If you add Thorium to the fuel, you can make more fissionable uranium. If
a Thorium atom nucleus captures a neutron, it ejects an electron and the neutron
becomes a proton. The Thorium atom thus becomes U233. U233 is fissionable.

Depending on the design of the reactor and the mix of the fuel, the fuel % in the
reactor can either grow or shrink. It is kind of like the fuel gauge can go either up
or down, but it is more like the reactor can run hotter or cooler over time. The
temperature is kept constant by adjusting the control rods. A breeder reactor is a
reactor designed to make the fissionable part of the fuel load grow rapidly.
In the US, fuel is left in the reactor for about 10 years, or 10% of the fuel is
replaced each year. The reprocessing step sorts out the fuel and puts the
percentage of fissionable fuel back to the starting percentage. In the process,
plutonium may be removed and either wasted or used as fuel. If we add thorium
to the fuel, we can make more uranium than we put in. Since the earth contains
more than twice as much thorium as uranium, it would be wise to make thorium
into uranium. By reprocessing nuclear fuel, we get an enormous, many centuries
long fuel supply. The products of fission are also removed when fuel is
reprocessed. These are just other ordinary atoms that are no longer useful as fuel.
The quantity is very small. We should reprocess fuel to keep the fuel load at the
correct percentage of fissionable fuel for the particular reactor design. Instead, we
go through the expensive process of making more "virgin" fuel for each new fuel
load. This greatly increases the price you pay for electricity. We are not
reprocessing nuclear fuel for political reasons.

I have zero financial interest in nuclear power, and I never have had a financial
interest in nuclear power. My sole motivation in writing this is to avoid extinction
by H2S gas. H2S is how global warming kills everybody if we don't act.

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» chernobyl Posted by: e rice
» RE: chernobyl nonsense Posted by: AsteroidMiner
» RE: chernobyl nonsense Posted by: e rice
New Energy Order is irrelevant to the coming famine in the US
Posted by: AsteroidMiner on Apr 16, 2008 11:52 PM   
Current rating: 1    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Downloaded FROM: Environmental Defense
http://environmentaldefenseblogs.org/
climate411/2008/01/14/global_winds/

This post is by James Wang, Ph.D., a climate scientist at Environmental Defense.

You may have heard about the persistent droughts in the western U.S., Australia,
and other regions. The Upper Colorado River Basin is experiencing a protracted,
multi-year drought that started in 1999. Australia's record drought is threatening
the livelihood of traditional farmers and ranchers.

At what point does a passing drought become a permanent shift to desert
conditions, and why would such a thing happen?

It can happen because of global warming. Climate change can alter global winds,
the strength and location of high and low pressure systems, and other climate
factors.

.........shortened.........Graphics and URLs omitted.

Global winds shape the Earth's climate, determining - in broad strokes - which
areas are tropical, desert, or temperate. Here's a simplified overview of how it
works.

The Sun heats the Earth most intensely in the tropical zone around the equator. The
heated air rises, cools, and then dumps its moisture as rain. That's why there are
rain forests in the tropics.

The now drier air is forced by the continuously rising equatorial air to move
towards the temperate latitudes on either side of the equator. At roughly 30° N and
S - called the "horse latitudes" - it can move no further due to the Earth’s rotation,
and settles to the surface. As the air sinks, it compresses and warms, creating hot,
rain-free conditions. This circulation pattern, called a Hadley cell, is why the
deserts of the world are located just poleward of the tropics, to the north and south.

Poleward of the desert belt, strong, high-altitude winds known as the jet streams
flow from west to east, carrying large storms with them. These mid-latitude,
temperate-region storms are an important source of rain and snow, especially
during the winter season. Much of the world's population lives in the temperate
region. It includes most of the U.S. and southern Canada, most of Europe, East
Asia, southern South America, southern Africa, and southern Australia and New
Zealand.

But climate regions aren't fixed. Several independent studies have found that
global winds are shifting due to global warming, and the shifts are faster than
predicted by climate models. Most recently is this new study in Nature
Geoscience. The tropical belt has widened by several degrees latitude since 1979.
This is consistent with other observations suggesting that the jet streams and storm
tracks have moved poleward.

The drought-stricken Upper Colorado River Basin, which includes Lake Powell, is
located just poleward of the horse latitudes at around 37° N. This has historically
been in the temperate zone, but the desert zone may be gradually encroaching upon
it. (Since nothing is simple, there are other factors contributing to this particular
drought, as well.) Similarly, water-starved Sydney, Australia at 34° S is just
poleward of the southern horse latitude.

What we may be seeing here is not so much drought as desertification - a shift in
global climate patterns due to global warming. Areas that used to be in temperate
zones may be shifting into desert, while areas that had been arid receive more
precipitation.

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Worry about going EXTINCT
Posted by: AsteroidMiner on Apr 16, 2008 11:58 PM   
Current rating: 4    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Environmental policy = energy policy
Energy policy = environmental policy
because Global Warming
can lead to Hydrogen Sulfide gas coming out of the oceans.

Hydrogen Sulfide gas will Kill all people. Homo Sap will go
EXTINCT unless drastic action is taken.

October 2006 Scientific American

"EARTH SCIENCE
Impact from the Deep
Strangling heat and gases emanating from the earth and sea, not
asteroids, most likely caused several ancient mass extinctions.
Could the same killer-greenhouse conditions build once again?
By Peter D. Ward
downloaded from:
http://www.sciam.com/
article.cfm?articleID=
00037A5D-A938-150E-
A93883414B7F0000&
sc=I100322
....................Most of the article omitted......................
But with atmospheric carbon climbing at an annual rate of 2 ppm
and expected to accelerate to 3 ppm, levels could approach 900
ppm by the end of the next century, and conditions that bring
about the beginnings of ocean anoxia may be in place. How soon
after that could there be a new greenhouse extinction? That is
something our society should never find out."

Press Release
Pennsylvania State University
FOR IMMEDIATE RELEASE
Monday, Nov. 3, 2003
downloaded from:
http://www.geosociety.org/meetings/2003/prPennStateKump.htm
"In the end-Permian, as the levels of atmospheric oxygen fell and
the levels of hydrogen sulfide and carbon dioxide rose, the upper
levels of the oceans could have become rich in hydrogen sulfide
catastrophically. This would kill most of the oceanic plants and
animals. The hydrogen sulfide dispersing in the atmosphere would
kill most terrestrial life."

www.astrobio.net is a NASA web zine. See:

http://www.astrobio.net/
news/modules.php?op=
modload&name=News&
file=article&sid=672

http://www.astrobio.net/
news/modules.php?op=
modload&name=News&
file=article&sid=1535

http://www.astrobio.net/
news/article2509.html

http://astrobio.net/news/
modules.php?op=modload
&name=News&file=article
&sid=2429&mode=thread
&order=0&thold=0

These articles agree with the first 2. They all say 6 degrees C or
1000 parts per million CO2 is the extinction point.

The global warming is already 1.3 degree Farenheit. 11 degrees
Farenheit is about 6 degrees Celsius. The book "Six Degrees" by
Mark Lynas agrees. If the global warming is 6 degrees
centigrade, we humans go extinct. See:
http://www.marklynas.org/
2007/4/23/six-steps-to-hell-
summary-of-six-degrees-as-
published-in-the-guardian

"Under a Green Sky" by Peter D. Ward, Ph.D., 2007.
Paleontologist discusses mass extinctions of the past and the one
we are doing to ourselves.

ALL COAL FIRED POWER PLANTS MUST BE
CONVERTED TO NUCLEAR IMMEDIATELY TO AVOID
THE EXTINCTION OF US HUMANS. 32 countries have
nuclear power plants. Only 9 have the bomb. The top 3
producers of CO2 all have nuclear power plants, coal fired power
plants and nuclear bombs. They are the USA, China and India.
Reducing CO2 production by 90% by 2050 requires drastic action
in the USA, China and India. King Coal has to be demoted to a
commoner. Coal must be left in the earth. If you own any coal
stock, NOW is the time to dump it, regardless of loss, because it
will soon be worthless.
I have no financial connection to the nuclear power industry.

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» Excellent article! Posted by: PaulC
» RE: Hydrogen Sulfide gas is a big possible threat Posted by: rfrancis@godisdead.com
Solar doesn't work at night. Wind power doesn't work without wind.
Posted by: AsteroidMiner on Apr 17, 2008 12:03 AM   
Current rating: 3    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Wind energy wastes energy because the wind varies so much that
a "spinning reserve" is required in most locations. If you are
running the steam powered generator at the spinning reserve rate,
you may as well use the steam as your energy source and forget
about the wind. Wind turbines are decorations, not sources of
energy for the grid until we have room temperature
superconductors. There are special locations and circumstances
where wind energy is useful, but wind cannot replace coal and
nuclear any time soon.
Those windmills are just nuisances that electric companies are
forced to put up with. They aren't really reducing the need for
coal because the wind is too variable. The coal fire has to be kept
burning to maintain a "spinning reserve." There is one and only
one practical way to replace coal fired power plants at the present
time. That one way is nuclear power. Nuclear power works for
base load and nuclear power is clean and safe.
We don't have batteries that are good enough and cheap enough to
solve the problem of wind variability yet. We need research into
energy storage. The research will take an unknown ammount of
time.

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Civilization will collapse when agriculture fails.
Posted by: AsteroidMiner on Apr 17, 2008 12:12 AM   
Current rating: 3    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Downloaded from:
http://www.marklynas.org/
2007/4/23/six-steps-to-hell-
summary-of-six-degrees-as-
published-in-the-guardian

'Six steps to hell' - summary of Six Degrees as published in the Guardian
23 April 07:

1ºC Nebraska ...shortened... These innocuous-looking hills were once desert, part
of an immense system of sand dunes that spread across the Great Plains from
Texas in the south to the Canadian prairies in the north. Six thousand years ago,
when temperatures were about 1C warmer than today in the US, these deserts may
have looked much as the Sahara does today. ....shortened... devastating
agriculture and driving out human inhabitants on a scale far larger than the 1930s
“Dustbowl” exodus.....shortened...

2ºC ....shortened...Two degrees is also enough to cause the eventual complete
melting of the Greenland ice sheet, which would raise global sea levels by seven
metres. ...shortened...

3ºC Scientists estimate that we have at best 10 years to bring down global carbon
emissions if we are to stabilise world temperatures within two degrees of their
present levels. ....shortened... 3C may be the “tipping point” where global
warming could run out of control, leaving us powerless to intervene as planetary
temperatures soar. The centre of this predicted disaster is the Amazon, where the
tropical rainforest, which today extends over millions of square kilometres, would
burn down in a firestorm of epic proportions. ...shortened... Once the trees have
gone, desert will appear and the carbon released by the forests’ burning will be
joined by still more from the world’s soils. This could boost global temperatures
by a further 1.5ºC – tippping us straight into the four-degree world.
....shortened...

4ºC At four degrees another tipping point is almost certain to be crossed; indeed,
it could happen much earlier. ....shortened... hundreds of billions of tonnes of
carbon locked up in Arctic permafrost – particularly in Siberia – enter the melt
zone, releasing globally warming methane and carbon dioxide in immense
quantities. ....shortened...

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Forget about the price of gasoline.
Posted by: AsteroidMiner on Apr 17, 2008 12:15 AM   
Current rating: 3    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
5ºC ....shortened... methane hydrates. This unlikely substance, a sort of ice-like
combination of methane and water that is only stable at low temperatures and high
pressure, may have burst into the atmosphere from the seabed in an immense
“ocean burp”, sparking a surge in global temperatures ....shortened... . Today vast
amounts of these same methane hydrates still sit on subsea continental shelves. As
the oceans warm, they could be released once more in a terrifying echo of that
methane belch of 55 million years ago. In the process, moreover, the seafloor
could slump as the gas is released, sparking massive tsunamis ....shortened...

6ºC ....shortened... end of the Permian period, 251 million years ago. By the end
of this calamity, up to 95% of species were extinct. The end-Permian wipeout is
the nearest this planet has ever come to becoming just another lifeless rock drifting
through space. ....shortened... most of the world’s plant cover was removed in a
catastrophic bout of soil erosion. Rocks also show a “fungal spike” as plants and
animals rotted in situ. Still more corpses were washed into the oceans, helping to
turn them stagnant and anoxic. ....shortened...

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Renewable energy could 'rape' nature
Posted by: AsteroidMiner on Apr 17, 2008 12:26 AM   
Current rating: 3    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
11:10 25 July 2007
NewScientist.com news service
http://environment.newscientist.com/article/
dn12346-renewable-energy-could-rape-nature.html

http://www.newscientist.com/blog/environment/
2007/07/renewable-energy-bad-nuclear-power-good.html

Phil McKenna
Ramping up the use of renewable energy would lead to the "rape
of nature", meaning nuclear power should be developed instead.
http://www.inderscience.com/search/index.php?
action=record&rec_id=14671&prevQuery=&ps=10&m=or
So argues noted conservation biologist and climate change
researcher Jesse Ausubel in an opinion piece based on his and
others' research.
http://www.newscientist.com/channel/opinion/
mg18925361.500-interview-be-green-think-big.html
Ausubel (who New Scientist interviewed in 2006) says the key
renewable energy sources, including sun, wind, and biomass,
would all require vast amounts of land if developed up to large
scale production – unlike nuclear power. That land would be far
better left alone, he says.
Renewables are "boutique fuels" says Ausubel, of Rockefeller
University in New York, US. "They look attractive when they are
quite small. But if we start producing renewable energy on a large
scale, the fallout is going to be horrible."
Instead, Ausubel argues for renewed development of nuclear. "If
we want to minimise the rape of nature, the best energy solution is
increased efficiency, natural gas with carbon capture, and nuclear
power."
'Massive infrastructure'
Ausubel draws his conclusions by analysing the amount of energy
renewables, natural gas, and nuclear can produce in terms of
power per square metre of land used. Moreover, he claims that as
renewable energy use increases, this measure of efficiency will
decrease as the best land for wind, biomass, and solar power gets
used up.
Using biofuels to obtain the same amount of energy as a 1000
megawatt nuclear power plant would require 2500 square
kilometres of prime Midwestern farm land, Ausubel says. "We
should be sparing land for nature, not using it as pasture for cars
and trucks," he adds.
Solar power is much more efficient than biofuel in terms of the
area of land used, but it would still require 150 square kilometres
of photovoltaic cells to match the energy production of the 1000
MW nuclear plant. In another example, he says meeting the 2005
US electricity demand via wind power alone would need 780,000
square kilometres, an area the size of Texas.
Part of the land used in Ausubel's calculations is for storage and
transportation: "Any renewable energy supply needs a massive
infrastructure, including steel, metal, pipes, cables, concrete, and
access roads."

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» WRONG WRONG WRONG Posted by: AsteroidMiner
» RE: This is a bunch of nonsense Posted by: beijaflor
» "A Solar Grand Plan" Posted by: PaulC
High Energy Prices Are A Good Thing
Posted by: Jeff Hoffman on Apr 17, 2008 12:41 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Artificially low energy prices have caused, and are still causing, massive environmental and ecological destruction. With significantly higher prices, people will be forced to change their lifestyles from the totally destructive car-based suburban model to an environmentally friendlier local model. The root physical causes of all environmental problems are overconsumption and overpopulation. High prices will go a long way toward solving the overconsumption problem.

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» and starvation Posted by: e rice
» Wrong Posted by: Jeff Hoffman
» RE: Wrong Posted by: e rice
high prices are NO good thing
Posted by: richholland on Apr 17, 2008 5:17 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
With high energy prices the RICH can go on destroying Earth.

A more democratic society will be able to change lifestyle for everybody.

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longest rant!
Posted by: wittler youth on Apr 17, 2008 9:25 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Man this is the longest i ever saw on alter net..and it was smart!

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over population is the true global killer
Posted by: tbone on Apr 17, 2008 9:41 AM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Sure we amerkans are gonna have to change our ways, but the rest of the world just goes on making more babies. The oligarchs have already doomed us all by not educating the masses. Anyone under the age of 50 is going to experience the worst. Your kids, my kids, they will barely remember "the good ol' days".

Nostradamus...

Here's how it will all go down: Energy will become the #1 priority for all governments in order to sustain economies. That means COAL, sure liquid fuels will become a thing of the past, but COAL is where we will get all of our electricity. COAL is already the #1 CO2 producer. The Climate will change because of this and not in a good way. Food and water shortages will follow any major energy changes due to continued human reproduction. In the end someone will begin nukular eradication in order to "control" the raiding hoardes.

The only question remains is which bad news happens first...will the food/water shortages beat out the failing economies or maybe the oligarchs will just push the button.

There are no solutions except death.

My choice will be to enjoy my waning days (maybe 30-40 yrs) watching the carnage and wondering if the planet can hold on and rebuild (without most of us of course).

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Chernobyl can't happen here
Posted by: AsteroidMiner on Apr 17, 2008 3:37 PM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
A friend of mine from Oak Ridge National Laboratory wrote to
me: "The reactor that had the accident at Chernobyl was very out-
of-date (1st generation) design that has to be precisely controlled
to prevent cooling water from boiling. Water carries away heat
and moderates far better than bubbles, and as bubbles form in
water, the reactor goes increasingly unstable. What caused
Chernobyl to blow its top was residual water in the core suddenly
going to high pressure steam and erupting into a steam explosion.
Since the building top was simply resting by its weight on the
walls, not a containment vessel at all, the steam explosion burped
the top off its position allowing outside air in, subsequently
igniting a carbon fire." The United States and other Western
countries DO NOT now build and do not now posses or operate
ANY reactors of such primitive design. Nor do we allow
containment buildings to have easily removable tops.
Containment buildings in the Western hemisphere are required to
be pressure vessels.
The Chernobyl accident released only 200 tons of
radioactive material, as much as a coal-fired power plant would
release in 7 years and 5 months. The Chernobyl accident had a
shorter "stack" than coal-fired power plants. The radioactive
material was released in a short time at ground level. That is why
the Chernobyl accident had impact. The Three Mile Island
incident did NOT release a noticeable amount of radiation into its
neighborhood because it had a good containment building and
because it was a more modern design.
The reason is that the Soviet Union didn't spend money on R&D
for nuclear safety. The US did. Over 60 years, American
reactors have become so safe it is ridiculous. We have way
overspent on nuclear reactor safety, driving up the cost of
electricity. Meanwhile, back at the ranch, coal fired electric
power plants kill 24,000 people per year in the US according to
Discover magazine. Reactors built in the US in 2008 are nothing
like the very first reactor ever, built in the US in 1944. Soviet
built reactors were just copies of the 1944 reactor.
The book: "Environmentalists for Nuclear Energy", by B. Comby
has more truthful information on this if you are interested. Don't
believe the urban legends that were started by coal companies.
Order the book from: http://www.comby.org/livres/livresen.htm
See: http://www.ecolo.org for more information on the book.
Most books on the subject in most libraries may be there because
of coal industry pressure.

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Finding truth on the web. maxpayne found a coal company lie.
Posted by: AsteroidMiner on Apr 17, 2008 3:59 PM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Reference: "Web Dragons" by Witten, Gori and Numerico 2007.

The search engines do not understand the web pages they find for you. They are
just machines. They have no idea of whether or not the web pages they find tell
the truth. In the US, we have "freedom of speech," which means that nobody has
to prove that anything is true before publishing it. We also have a coal industry
that has a gross income of $100 BILLION per year. That $100 BILLION per year
could be easily sunk by the nuclear industry unless you can be persuaded that
nuclear power is dangerous. [The truth is that a coal fired power plant puts 100
times as much radiation into your environment as the nuclear power plant. The
truth is also that natural background radiation is 10 times what you get from a coal
fired power plant.] Do the coal companies have an incentive to lead you astray?
Yes. Is $100 BILLION per year enough incentive? Yes. Can the coal industry
afford to hire doctors, economists, environmentalists, website designers, computer
scientists, psychologists, advertising agencies, and lots of other people on $100
BILLION per year? Of course. Can the coal industry afford to set up hundreds
of web pages on hundreds of computers in hundreds of locations and "game" the
search engines on $100 BILLION per year? Yes. And they do.

How hard is it to find the truth on the web? Very hard. Most web sites have a
monetary reason for existing. People who know the truth and are willing to tell
you the truth don't have much economic reason to do so. It is hard to make money
by telling the truth. Nobody ever went broke by underestimating the intelligence
or overestimating the gullibility of the average person. So how are you going to
find out the truth for sure? There is only one way. You have to become a
scientist. You will have to spend a minimum of 4 years in college to get the
minimum degree, the B.S. You should really spend more like 15 years and get a
post doctoral degree.

THERE ARE ZERO HUMAN AUTHORITIES.
Scientists do not vote on what is the truth. There is only one vote and Nature
owns it. We find out what Nature's vote is by doing Scientific [public and
replicable] experiments. Scientific [public and replicable] experiments are the
only source of truth. [To be public, it has to be visible to other people in the
room. What goes on inside one person's head isn't public unless it can be seen on
an X-ray or with another instrument.]
Science is a simple faith in Scientific experiments and a simple absolute lack of
faith in everything else. Do not trust any human, not even yourself. Trust only
the experiments that you personally perform. Otherwise, you will be misled.

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Nuclear power can save us
Posted by: AsteroidMiner on Apr 17, 2008 5:16 PM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Nuclear power is NOT dangerous. Coal is the most dangerous and radioactive.
Nuclear power can save us from extinction. The comparison has to be with
extinction. Do you understand what the word "extinct" means? It means that, if
we keep burning FOSSIL fuels containing CARBON, EVERY PERSON will be
DEAD. THERE WILL BE ZERO SURVIVORS. EXTINCTION means NO
MORE HOMO SAPIENS, EVER. NOT EVEN the worst possible nuclear war,
a "general exchange" between the United States and the old Soviet Union could
achieve the extinction of Homo Sapiens. That would mean exploding 40,000 H
bombs all at once in the old days or maybe only 20,000 H bombs now.

The simultaneous deaths of 6,400,000,000 people would not even be noticeable in
the geologic record. Human population would rebound too fast for the dip to be
noticeable in the rocks. But extinction would clearly be noticed by some future
space alien or future intelligent earth species geologist. He would find no more
humans after the extinction event.

In the second place your paranoid fears of nuclear power are just that, paranoid,
irrational, crazy, the product of mental illness, ignorance and coal industry
propaganda. And yes, I know something about things nuclear. I am a physicist
with experience in the Army's lead lab for nuclear weapons effects. So, do I need
to post 10 more posts to prove it or will you read my posts on past articles before
making a fool of yourself?

Please also read my past posts on the subject of the extinction we are headed for in
something like 200 years if we don't stop burning carbon. And yes, I like wind,
solar, hydro and geothermal energy. Is there a need to repeat once again that they
are inadequate to meet our needs with current technology and current prices?

PS: To be a "fossil" fuel it has to contain fossils if it is a solid. Coal contains
many fossils, mostly of plants. Oil is a liquid, but oil shale should contain fossils.
Uranium is NOT a fossil fuel. There is no guarantee of finding fossils
anywhere near a uranium mine.

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maxpayne makes the octane mistake
Posted by: AsteroidMiner on Apr 17, 2008 5:24 PM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
How do coal fired power plants get ahead of transportation [cars
and other vehicles] in carbon emissions? Gasoline, diesel fuel,
etc. are half hydrogen. For example, octane is C8H18. To figure
out what fraction of the energy is from burning the carbon, you
have to look up the heat of formation of carbon dioxide and the
heat of formation of water. It takes 1 carbon to make one CO2,
but it takes 2 hydrogens to make 1 H2O. You can do the
arithmetic and apportion the energy between the carbon and the
hydrogen. You have to subtract the energy required to break
down the octane into atoms. It is easier to remove the hydrogens
than it is to separate the carbons, so the energy subtracted gets
apportioned too.
Coal is almost pure carbon, except for the URANIUM,
ARSENIC, LEAD, MERCURY, Antimony, Cobalt, Nickel,
Copper, Selenium, Barium, Fluorine, Silver, Beryllium, Iron,
Sulfur, Boron, Titanium, Cadmium, Magnesium, Calcium,
Manganese, Vanadium, Chlorine, Aluminum, Chromium,
Molybdenum and Zinc that are coal's impurities. Even though
transportation uses more energy, coal fired power plants put more
CO2 into the air.

Transportation isn't even the second largest CO2 emitter.
Industrial processes are. The largest CO2 emitter of the industrial
processes is concrete making even though the energy used is less.
The first step in concrete making is heating limestone [calcium
carbonate] to drive off the carbon dioxide to make calcium oxide.
Coal is burned to make the heat, but the limestone is the greater
source of CO2. Other industrial processes include steel making,
metal casting, etc.

The easiest way to make the biggest reduction in CO2 emissions
is to convert all coal fired power plants to nuclear.

My sole source of income is my retirement annuity from the
federal government. I am telling you the above to avoid the
horrific consequences of global warming.

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There is no such thing as nuclear waste.
Posted by: AsteroidMiner on Apr 17, 2008 5:30 PM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
We don't recycle nuclear fuel because spent fuel is valuable and people steal it.
The place it went that it wasn't supposed to go to is Israel. This happened in a
small town near Pittsburgh, PA circa 1970. A company called Numec was in the
business of reprocessing nuclear fuel. I almost took a job there, designing a
nuclear battery for a heart pacemaker. [A nuclear battery would have the
advantage of lasting many times as long as any other battery, eliminating many
surgeries to replace batteries.] Numec did NOT have a reactor. Numec "lost"
half a ton of enriched uranium. It wound up in Israel. The Israelis have fueled
both their nuclear power plants and their nuclear weapons by stealing nuclear
"waste." It could work for any other country, such as Iran or the United States.
It is only when you don't have access to nuclear "waste" that you have to do the
difficult process of enriching uranium.
Numec is no longer in business. Terrorists can't compete with Mossad and
Israeli dual citizens who are CEOs of companies like Numec. Israeli nuclear
weapons are exact duplicates of American nuclear weapons. All persons who
were "born of Jewish mothers" are citizens of Israel regardless of any other fact.
Since the US can't and shouldn't discriminate, the reprocessing of nuclear fuel in
the US stopped. That was the only politically possible solution at that time,
given that private corporations did the reprocessing. My solution would be to
reprocess the fuel at a Government Owned Government Operated [GOGO]
facility. At a GOGO plant, bureaucracy and the multiplicity of ethnicity and
religion would disable the transportation of uranium to Israel or to any
unauthorized place. Nothing heavier than a secret would get out.

There is no such thing as nuclear waste.
There is no such thing as nuclear waste.
There is no such thing as nuclear waste.

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Meltdown NOT POSSIBLE in latest US designed reactors
Posted by: AsteroidMiner on Apr 17, 2008 5:38 PM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
There are two types of 21st century reactors that cannot melt down no matter how
badly they are treated. Safety is guaranteed by laws of physics.
In the pebble bed reactors, stopping coolant flow removes the space between
fuel pellets. The space between fuel pellets must be filled with moving water.
The water is the moderator to slow down the neutrons so that the reaction can take
place. No coolant flow, no reaction. These pebble bed reactors will never
experience a meltdown. It just can't happen because of laws of nature. The US
has 2 pebble bed reactors.
In the recommended and newly invented helium cooled reactor, the core is
made of high temperature [refractory] materials that simply will not melt if coolant
flow ceases. The core is cooled from a higher temperature by heating the
containment building, which also does not melt. The containment building heats
its surroundings in the case of coolant flow loss. The helium cooled reactor uses
helium as the working fluid to turn a turbine. Helium gas is the ideal fluid to turn
a turbine because it can be made very pure so that the turbine blades will last a
very long time.
Safety is assured in all US built reactors by the containment building, which is a
pressure vessel and which, as in the case of the now obsolete 3 mile island reactor,
can and did contain the overheated core. There were ZERO casualties.

American reactors are now too safe. Nuclear power is overpriced because of the
excessive safety. 20,000 to 30,000 Americans die each year because of those
poisons I listed below that come out of coal fired power plants. It is C O A L fired
power plants that kill 20,000 to 30,000 Americans each year. Nuclear power
plants kill ZERO Americans each year. It is COAL burning that will make us go
extinct in about 100 years if we keep doing it.

The problem is that we OVERSHOT on safety design because of people who
protest nuclear power. American reactors are TOO safe. It is C O A L fired
power plants that give you 100 times as much radiation. Coal is almost pure
carbon, except for the URANIUM, ARSENIC, LEAD, MERCURY, Antimony,
Cobalt, Nickel, Copper, Selenium, Barium, Fluorine, Silver, Beryllium, Iron,
Sulfur, Boron, Titanium, Cadmium, Magnesium, Calcium, Manganese, Vanadium,
Chlorine, Aluminum, Chromium, Molybdenum and Zinc that are coal's impurities.
We could fuel our nuclear plants from the uranium and thorium in the smoke and
cinders from coal fired power plants. Coal cinders are an economically viable ore
for several of the listed impurities.

French reactors use American technology that is about 3 decades old.

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Why a Nuclear Powerplant CAN NOT Explode like a Nuclear Bomb
Posted by: AsteroidMiner on Apr 17, 2008 5:50 PM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Bombs are completely different from reactors. There is
nothing similar about them except that they both need fissile
materials. But they need DIFFERENT fissile materials and they
use them very differently.
A nuclear bomb "compresses" pure or nearly pure fissile
material into a small space. There is no other material in the
volume containing the nuclear explosive. The fissile material is
either the uranium isotope 235 or plutonium. If it is uranium, it is
at least 90% uranium 235 and 10% or less uranium 238. There is
no isotope separation problem if the fissile material is plutonium.
These fissile materials are metals and very difficult to compress.
Because they are difficult to compress, a high explosive [high
speed explosive] is required to compress them. Pieces of the
fissile material have to slam into each other hard for the nuclear
reactions to take place.
A nuclear reactor, such as the ones used for power
generation, does not have any pure fissile material. The fuel may
be 2% uranium 235 mixed with uranium 238. A mixture of 2%
uranium 235 mixed with uranium 238 cannot be made to explode
no matter how hard you try. A small amount of plutonium mixed
in with the uranium can not change this. Reactor fuel still cannot
be made to explode like a nuclear bomb no matter how hard you
try. There has never been a nuclear explosion in a reactor and
there never will be. [Uranium and plutonium are flammable, but
a fire isn't an explosion.] The fuel is further diluted by being
divided and sealed into many small steel capsules. The fuel is
further diluted by the need for coolant to flow around the capsules
and through the core so that heat can be transported to a place
where heat energy can be converted to electrical energy. A
reactor does not contain any high speed [or any other speed]
chemical explosive as a bomb must have. A reactor does not
have any explosive materials at all.
As is obvious from the above descriptions, there is no
possible way that a reactor could ever explode like a nuclear
bomb. Reactors and bombs are very different. Reactors and
bombs are really not even related to each other.
Reccomendation: Nuclear power is the safest kind and it just got
safer. Convert all coal-fired power plants to nuclear ASAP. See
the December 2005 issue of Scientific American article on a new
type of nuclear reactor that consumes the nuclear "waste" as fuel.

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Worry about heart disease, not powerplants
Posted by: AsteroidMiner on Apr 17, 2008 5:56 PM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Odds of Dying from X according to the 2003 National Safety council

1 heart disease 1 in 5
2 cancer 1 in 7
3 stroke 1 in 24
4 motor vehicle accident 1 in 84
5 suicide 1 in 119
6 falling 1 in 218
7 firearm assault 1 in 314
8 pedestrian accident 1 in 626
9 drowning 1 in 1008
10 motorcycle accident 1 in 1020
11 fire or smoke 1 in 1113
12 bicycle accident 1 in 4919
13 air/space accident 1 in 5051
14 accidental firearm 1 in 5134
15 accidental electrocution 1 in 9969
16 alcohol poisoning 1 in 10048
17 hot weather 1 in 13729
18 hornet, wasp or bee sting 1 in 56789
19 legal execution 1 in 62468
20 lightning 1 in 79746
21 earthquake 1 in 117127
22 flood 1 in 144156
23 fireworks 1 in 340733

Causes that are missing from the above:
nuclear power plant accident
medical mistake
meteor impact
cold weather
starvation
dehydration
smallpox
war
terrorist strike
boredom

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» Bogus argument Posted by: PaulC
Natural background radiation has always been there
Posted by: AsteroidMiner on Apr 17, 2008 6:07 PM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Background radiation
From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Background_radiation

Background radiation is the ionizing radiation from several natural radiation
sources: sources in the Earth and from those sources that are incorporated in our
food and water, which are incorporated in our body, and in building materials and
other products that incorporate those radioactive sources; radiation sources from
space (in the form of cosmic rays); and sources in the atmosphere which primarily
come from both the radon gas that is released from the earth's surface and
subsequently decays to radioactive atoms that become attached to airborne dust
and particulates, and the production of radioactive atoms from the bombardment
of atoms in the upper atmosphere by high-energy cosmic rays. Since 1945 it also
comes from low levels of global radioactive contamination due to nuclear testing.

............shortened.............

Natural background radiation

Natural background radiation comes from three primary sources: cosmic radiation,
terrestrial sources, and radon. The worldwide average background dose for a
human being is about 2.4 mSv per year. This exposure is mostly from cosmic
radiation and natural isotopes in the Earth.

Cosmic radiation

The Earth, and all living things on it, are constantly bombarded by radiation from
outside our solar system of positively charged ions from protons to iron nuclei.
This radiation interacts in the atmosphere to create secondary radiation that rains
down, including X-rays, muons, protons, alpha particles, pions, electrons, and
neutrons. The dose from cosmic radiation is largely from muons, neutrons, and
electrons.

The dose rate from cosmic radiation varies in different parts of the world based
largely on the geomagnetic field and altitude.

Terrestrial sources

Radioactive material is found throughout nature. It occurs naturally in the soil,
rocks, water, air, and vegetation. The major radionuclides of concern for terrestrial
radiation are potassium, uranium and thorium. Each of these sources has been
decreasing in activity since the birth of the Earth so that our present dose from
potassium-40 is about 1⁄2 what it would have been at the dawn of life on Earth.
Some of the elements that make up the human body have radioactive isotopes,
such as potassium-40, so there is also a very small amount of internal radiation.

Radon

Radon gas seeps out of uranium-containing soils found across most of the world
and may concentrate in well-sealed homes. It is often the single largest contributor
to an individual's background radiation dose and is certainly the most variable in
the United States. Many areas of the world, including Cornwall and Aberdeenshire
in the United Kingdom have high enough natural radiation levels that nuclear
licensed sites cannot be built there—the sites would already exceed legal radiation
limits before they opened, and the natural topsoil and rock would all have to be
disposed of as low-level nuclear waste.

............shortened.............

The exposure for an average person is about 360 millirems/year, 80 percent of
which comes from natural sources of radiation. The remaining 20 percent results
from exposure to artificial radiation sources, such as medical X-rays and a small
fraction from nuclear weapons tests.

............shortened.............

Reference:
http://www.unscear.org/unscear/en/publications/2000_1.html

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maxpayne is wrong on cost
Posted by: AsteroidMiner on Apr 17, 2008 6:13 PM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
http://science-community.sciam.com/
blog-entry/Dan-Ms-Blog/
Cost-Solar-Power/300005422

The Cost of Solar Power   From Dan M.'s Blog  
by Dan M.
"One source that seems good is solarbuzz.com(1)(2). From the
name, it sounds like a pro solar energy source, but the data seem
to be realistic.
From the first referenced page at this site, we see that residential
costs have dropped 6% to 37.59 cents/kwH, while
commercial/wholesale costs have dropped 0.6% between July
2000 and November 2007 to 21.37 cents/kwH. "
"For comparison purposes, the wholesale price of electricity was
0.06 cents/kwH. "

Dividing the solar cost by the wholesale grid price, we see that
solar power costs 356.2 to 626.5 times as much as electricity from
the wholesale grid. That is during the daytime. At night, the
cost of solar power is much higher because you have to add the
cost of energy storage, the cost of converting the energy to store
it, the cost of converting the energy back, and all of the
inefficiencies. You would be lucky to get 5% efficiency overall
for stored energy, so multiply by at least 20 purely because of
inefficiency. Double or multiply by some larger number the
capital cost to cover the cost of storage. Solar power is
unaffordable at night.

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» "A Solar Grand Plan" Posted by: PaulC
Why terrorists can't rob radioactive materials from nuclear reactors
Posted by: AsteroidMiner on Apr 17, 2008 6:19 PM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Suppose a gang of terrorists tries to do a bank robbery type of
operation against a nuclear reactor. What problems do they
encounter that they wouldn't when robbing a bank?
1. There is no nuclear fuel within reach of any human.
2. The fuel is inside a containment building that is harder to
penetrate than a bank vault.
3. The fuel is inside a machine that was not made for human
access. Fuel isn't something in a fuel tank that the reactor takes
some of each minute. The fuel is an internal component of the
engine. Stealing fuel is more like stealing a piston out of an
engine than siphoning gasoline out of a gas tank. The robbers
would be like somebody trying to steal a piston out of an engine in
a busy Wal-Mart parking lot, not like somebody trying to steal a
cell phone out of an unlocked car in a dark alley. Fuel is removed
and replaced in a reactor at most once a year and often only once
every 10 years. Reactors could be built to be fueled once in the
reactor's lifetime. NASA's SNaPP reactors are fueled only once.
For example, the power sources on the Voyager spacecraft that
are now exiting the solar system have the same nuclear fuel they
had 30 years ago when they were launched. The Voyagers still
have power. Fuel that is removed from a reactor can be recycled
and put back into a reactor. The volume of the fuel doesn't
change as it is used.
4. The fuel is not like money in several ways:
a. The fuel is radioactive enough to kill the robbers immediately.
b. The fuel is far too heavy for the robbers to carry.
c. The fuel is sealed in steel capsules inside steel rods inside the
reactor core inside a coolant system, etc.
d. the temperature of the fuel is more than hot enough to burn
them.
e. If they got the fuel out, they would have to carry it in lead
containers that would weigh many tons.
f. etc.

To get fuel out, the reactor must first be shut down. The robbers
don't know how. The reactor must be allowed to cool. Cooling
takes time, like days. The fuel can only be removed by a robot.
The robot may not be present. The robbers don't know how to
operate the robot. The robbers don't have a way to move fuel
rods out of the containment building. The robbers would have to
have a big truck with a lead container to carry the fuel in. Big
trucks are not good getaway vehicles, especially when heavily
loaded.
IF the robbers knew how to do all of the required jobs, it would
still take them weeks to rob a reactor. Don't you think somebody
would notice when the people who work at the reactor didn't
come home for a few weeks? Do you think the cops and the
army are going to give the robbers weeks? The result of such an
attempted robbery would be robbers killed by bullets. Guards are
not needed. Fences are not needed. Guards and fences are there
purely because paranoid people want them there. Do not be like
a person who wears an aluminum foil hat to keep the government
from reading his or her thoughts. The government can't read
thoughts anyway, and terrorists can't steal fuel out of a nuclear
reactor.

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PLEASE GAMMA-RAY MY RASPBERRIES and lettuce and spinach
Posted by: AsteroidMiner on Apr 17, 2008 6:26 PM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Gamma rays would kill the germs in spinach and lettuce as well as the mold in
raspberries.. The down side is that the corporations would use the gamma rays
as a panacea and leave the bird poop and deer manure on the spinach, unless
strictly regulated. Gamma rays are like the microwaves in your microwave oven
but shorter in wavelength. X-rays are in between light and gamma rays.
Nuclear "waste" is a good cheap source of gamma rays. X-rays would work, but
are needlessly expensive, requiring new tubes often and a lot of electricity.
Corporations would not replace the X-ray tubes often enough because they are
expensive.

I am so tired of all the "fresh" red raspberries in the grocery store being dark from
mold. Red raspberries are supposed to be light, bright red, not quite pink.
Neither the shoppers nor the grocers know what raspberries are supposed to look
like and taste like. They buy the moldy ones, thinking that darker means riper.
The dark ones lack the tartness and taste that raspberries are supposed to have.
Raspberries are very high priced because they spoil very quickly if not frozen.
So Please, seal the raspberries in air tight transparent containers and gamma ray
them within 1/2 hour of picking them. I picked and ate wild raspberries as a
child.

Likewise for strawberries.

A really bad taste thing happens to milk. A lot of the store-bought milk tastes of
the detergent the farmers use to wash the bulk tank. The detergent is very harsh
and intentionally toxic to kill germs. Detergent is a pseudo-estrogen. The fact
that the detergent is pseudo-estrogen means that it is a gender bender. It makes
boys into girls. All of the milk that comes in plastic bottles tastes like plastic. I
will not drink it. I have the advantage of knowing what milk is supposed to taste
like, having tasted milk that was still warm from the cow.

Your meat is also spiced with manure. The meat packers will slow down the
process line enough to keep the manure off of the meat when they are required to
hire legal workers. Instead, they steam treat the meat to kill the germs in the
manure.

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Another estimate of the cost of solar power
Posted by: AsteroidMiner on Apr 17, 2008 6:40 PM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
A modest house has 200 amps times 115 volts = 23 kilowatts of
electricity connected to it. That would be a house selling for
$150,000 where I live or about $1 Million in Silicon Valley. A 4-
kilowatt solar photovoltaic system costs about $34,000 according
to http://www.usatoday.com/tech/science/environment
/2007-08-26-solar_N.htm.
23 kw divided by 4 kw = 5.75
So to get the required 23 kw we need $34,000 times 5.75.
$34,000 times 5.75 =$195,500
The same source also says: "Like wind power, solar energy is
spotty, working at full capacity an average 20% to 30% of the
time."
To be safe, take the 20% which equals 1/5 th of the time, so we
need 5 times as many solar panels to provide a whole day's worth
of energy. If you include off-peak, the 4 KW is reduced. Then
there are cloudy days, etc. $195,500/(1/5) = $977,500. Now we
see that we really need $977,500 worth of solar panels for our
$150,000 house. But I didn't include batteries, control system,
inverter, transformer, installation cost, building permit, the angle
of the sun at my latitude, energy lost in the batteries and
transistors, perhaps rotating the roof to continually face the sun,
etc. Did I do the computation wrong? Perhaps, but what I came
up with is that just solar panels raised the price of my $150,000
house to $1,127,500. If solar panels were subsidized by the
government, you would have to pay the same price, but you would
pay part of it as taxes.

Let's look at the Roof Area Covered: Solar energy from straight
up doesn't happen here, but if it did, the total solar energy onto 1
square yard is about 1 kilowatt. Solar cells are 16% efficient
according to the source above at the present time. We get 160
watts per square yard from our solar cells if the sun is at right
angles to the solar panel. We need 23 kw. 23kw divided by 160
watts/square yard = 143.75 square yards = 1293.75 square feet.
So if the sun is directly overhead of our solar panels, we need
1293.75 square feet of them. That would be 40 feet by 32.34
feet. But the sun is not directly overhead. Guess an angle. The
sine of 45 degrees is about .7. Dividing the 32.34 feet by 0.7 I
get 46.2 feet. So the solar cells cover the whole roof. The whole
roof has to slant southward at the right angle to catch the most
sunlight at winter solstice, or the whole roof has to rotate to follow
the sun. The average house is designed wrong for a rotating roof
that slants in only one direction.


Another source
http://www.wind-works.org/articles/costofiraqwarandwind.html
http://www.renewableenergyaccess.com/rea/news/story?id=34245
http://www.wind-works.org/bio.html
says that solar costs $10 Million/megawatt and wind costs $2
Million/Mw. That is greatly different from the prices above.
Paul Gipe also says solar works 1000 hours per year and wind
works 2000 hours per year. Since 1 year = 8766 hours, you have
to multiply the solar cost by 8.766 and the wind cost by 4.383 to
get a whole year's worth of energy. So solar really costs $87.66
Million per megawatt and wind really costs $8.766 Million per
megawatt not counting the cost of storing energy and the energy
lost in storage. Since energy conversions are inefficient, having
to convert and store the energy may multiply your costs by 10.

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» "A Grand Solar Plan" Posted by: PaulC
» RE: You make some bad assumptions Posted by: rfrancis@godisdead.com
Nuclear power is 30% cheaper than coal power. maxpayne lied
Posted by: AsteroidMiner on Apr 17, 2008 6:56 PM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
The low carbon source of the electricity has to be nuclear
to replace the base load capacity of coal. I just finished
reading "Environmentalists for Nuclear Energy", by B. Comby
English edition, 2001, 345 pp. (soft cover), 38 Euros
TNR Editions, 266 avenue Daumesnil, 75012 Paris, France;
ISBN 2-914190-02-6
order from: http://www.comby.org/livres/livresen.htm
Read a review of this book by the American Health Physics Society at:
http://www.comby.org/media/
articles/articles.in.english/
HealthPhysics-NUC-July2002.htm

www.ecolo.org
Association of Environmentalists For Nuclear Energy [EFN]

Nuclear power is 30% cheaper than the coal power we have been
duped into using. We have 5000 years worth of nuclear fuel if
we recycle it rather than waste it as we do now. Nuclear is also
the safest, cleanest and cheapest form of energy available.

maxpayne is working for the coal industry, even if he doesn't
know it.

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biochemurgic
Posted by: biochemurgic on Apr 17, 2008 7:43 PM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Last Saturday, I heard Amory Lovins of the Rocky Mountain Institute (rmi.org) speak at Seattle's heavily attended Green Festival. Lovins is perhaps the world's leading expert on energy efficiency, and I was reminded of just how little attention is paid to that part of the future equation in essays such as the otherwise excellent one from Michael Klare.

Lovins doesn't talk about freeze-in-the-dark stuff. Just smarter use of technologies and materials to yield better results---squeezing more work from the same amount of fuel. The potential savings in such strategies are huge.

Rather than the endless somber discussions of how we cam ever replace the dying fossil-fuel regime with suitable energy alternatives, we need to start with a differerent question: What are our best options for using efficiency as a bridge to renewables?

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control enegy control the nations
Posted by: HANGTRAITORS on Apr 18, 2008 6:33 PM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
if you notice, the only choices we are presented with are the ones that THEY OWN.. FREE / CHEAP ENERGY EXISTS. THE RELEASE OF THIS TECHNOLOGY WILL REMOVE THE KEYS TO THE KINGDOM FROM THEIR HANDS PERMANENTLY. AND THIS , THEY FEAR MOST

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PROPOGANDIST FOR BIG ENERGY AND BIG BROTHER
Posted by: HANGTRAITORS on Apr 18, 2008 7:21 PM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
THIS SITE IS CHUCK FULL OF PAID POSTERS, PROPAGANDIZING PEAK OIL, NUCLEAR ENERGY AND DEPOPULATION AGENDAS.. YOUR POSTINGS READ LIKE INDUSTRY AND CLUB OF ROME INFOMERCIALS.. HOW MUCH DOES BEING A TROLL PAY? ITS CERTAINLY EASIER THAN MY JOB! LOL!

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BLAME RICHARD GARDNER
Posted by: TERRIROBSON on Apr 20, 2008 9:18 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Original member Trilateral Commission and a prominent architect of the "New International Economic Order", his 1974 article in Foreign Affairs magazine THE HARD ROAD TO WORLD ORDER. Skip to 2001 and we have Dr. Robert Pastor with a book TOWARDS A NORTH AMERICAN UNION. As of this minute these people with Hillory&Bill Clintons help(Trilateral members) we now have the SECURITY & PROSPERITY PARTNERSHIP.Pastor is the lead person here, Quote:"In short, the 'house of world order'would have to be built from the bottom up rather than from the top down.It will look like a great 'booming,bussing confusion,'to use William James' famous description of reality,but an end run around national sovereignty,eroding it piece by piece,will accomplish much more than the old-fashioned frontal assault."end quote. This is the type of person in charge. These are nothing more than farcinorous people with avarice as their holy grail.

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Thanks to our multi nat and world bank friends;
Posted by: jwpa13 on Apr 20, 2008 11:19 PM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
for helping agra-business to destroy small farms by making local production of food unprofitable.
for driving small farmers, in places like Mexico, into the cities for work.
Its THE FEAR PLAN folks. A PLAN aimed at making the control of populations easier. People worried where their daily bread will come from stop worrying about political corruption and political freedom. THE PLAN is what keeps a country like Mexico in a third world status, even as it sits at the doorstep of the US. VIVA ADM, VIVA MONSANTO, VIVA NESTLES.... gotta love 'em.

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» Mountain top Removal Posted by: nahikurain@mac.com
Wheat and Potatoes
Posted by: nahikurain@mac.com on Apr 23, 2008 10:41 PM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
anybody else growing food, turning off the lights, working from home, breaking the addiction of consumerism, eating less, looking at water consumption? come on people, get real now- this isn't about them anymore, it's about us

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» RE: Wheat and Potatoes Posted by: total_chaos
The coal industry depends on you fear of nuclear power
Posted by: AsteroidMiner on May 1, 2008 2:56 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
The coal industry depends on your irrational fear of all things
nuclear to maintain its $100 Billion per year cash flow. The coal
industry knows perfectly well that nuclear power would have
driven coal out of business long ago if it were not for your
irrational fear of all things nuclear. It is greatly to the coal
industry's advantage for you to continue to advocate sources of
energy, such as solar and wind, that they know just won't work or
are so expensive as to be economically unfeasible. Every time
you advocate wind energy or solar energy as better than nuclear,
you are giving the coal industry a chance to continue causing
global warming for another year. Every time you advocate wind
energy or solar energy as better than nuclear, you are taking us
one year closer to the collapse of civilization and the extinction of
the human race. The only thing we can do to stop global
warming RIGHT NOW is to stop all objections to nuclear power
and unanimously advocate immediate conversion of all coal fired
power plants worldwide to nuclear.

Americans are paranoid about all things nuclear. NMR [Nuclear
Magnetic Resonance] had to be renamed MRI [Magnetic
Resonance Imaging] to get sick people into the scanner. The only
thing that changed was the name, yet patients refused "NMR"
scans, but willingly get "MRI" scans. Apparently, the average
American doesn't know that all matter, including people, is made
of atoms and that atoms have nuclei. The NMR/MRI machine
aligns the spins of the nuclei in the atoms in the patient using a big
magnet. Since different atoms have different nuclear spin
resonances, the NMR/MRI machine can see one element at a time.
I have no idea what the sick sick patients were thinking, but that
kind of thinking is what got us into the climate crisis that we are
now in.

32 countries have nuclear power plants. Only 9 have nuclear
bombs. The 4 biggest sources of CO2 have both. They are the
US, China, India and Russia. Canadian Candu reactors run on
UNenriched uranium. Thus proliferation of nuclear weapons is
an irrelevant issue. Every country should have the advantage of
American and Canadian technology so that nuclear power will be
the safest and cleanest energy available.

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