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Environment

The Problem with Christmas

By Bill McKibben, Grist.org. Posted December 4, 2007.


It has long since become too busy, too expensive, too centered around acquiring that which we do not need.
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The problem with Christmas is not the batteries. The problem isn't even really the stuff. The problem with Christmas is that no one much likes it anymore.

If you poll Americans this time of year, far more of them regard the approaching holidays with dread than anticipation. It has long since become too busy, too expensive, too centered around acquiring that which we do not need. In fact, it's the perfect crystallization of the American economy -- the American consumer experience squeezed into a manic week, a week that people find themselves hoping will soon end so that on Jan. 2 they can return to the mere routine hecticity of their lives.

From that central truth, a few propositions follow:

  • Replacing regular stuff with green stuff isn't getting very close to the root of the problem. If for some reason you need to give someone a motorized spice rack, then a motorized spice rack with a more efficient motor is quite clearly better. But it's also quite clearly beside the point.
  • Stuff itself is a problem less because of its environmental toll (though that is quite high) than because it's increasingly meaningless. Think of your friends. Are many of them lacking in stuff? Or is the first question that forms in their minds when a new gift arrives from under the tree: "Where am I going to put this?"
  • But this pleasure gap allows for a concentrated opportunity to begin rethinking our economic life. If stuff isn't valuable anymore, what is? Time, clearly. A gift of time -- a coupon for a back rub, or a trip to the museum, or a dinner prepared someday in the future -- is a gift whose exchange rate is figured in a stronger currency (if you're an economics major, think euros vs. dollars). Or gifts can come embedded with time already spent: a jar of homemade jam, a stack of firewood in the back yard.
  • Gifts can also be reconfigured to remove some of the hyperindividualism that marks our consumer society. Ask yourself what you'd rather receive: another thing, or a homemade card saying that, say, a cow had been purchased in your name and was now providing milk for a Tanzanian family that hadn't had milk before. (Note: this line of reasoning is probably especially strong for those of us who are Christians, and recall that the occasion we're celebrating is the birth of a man who said to give all that we had to the poor.)
  • Since Christmas has long been in the business of baptizing consumption, it's a good place to start eroding consumption's allure. Newfound pleasures from a simpler holiday -- some silence, some companionship -- suddenly start to seem attractive. Maybe that attraction will remain with us even unto February.

That would be good, because our environmental problem, at root, isn't that the stuff we're buying uses too much energy or too much plastic, or that its paint has lead in it, or that it's been shipped too far. Our environmental problem is that we consume way too much because we've agreed to try and meet basic human needs -- status, respect, affection -- with material ends. And no time more so than at Christmas, when Santa rides in on a Norelco razor. It's a kind of joint conspiracy that few of us dare break out of, even though we all understand at some level that it's not working. What if you don't give your kids a "proper Christmas"?

But the second you do break out of it -- the second your family becomes one of those that exchanges used books at Christmas, or decides to follow St. Francis' Yule tradition of wandering the park and throwing seed so that the birds too could celebrate, or makes it an annual custom to serve turkey dinner at the homeless shelter -- then you start sharing in the deep human secret that consumer society is set up to obscure: the things that please us most are almost always counterintuitive. We need to be out in the cold air, we need to think about others, we need to serve.

There are, of course, some who will say that a course like the one I'm describing here will damage the economy -- that anyone who proposes a different Yuletide is a "grinch." (This, by the way, is a major literary faux pas. Close reading -- even cursory reading, or even viewing the annual television special, will remind one that it was in fact the grinch himself who believed that Christmas came in a box. He turned out to be wrong, as the Whos of Whoville, those communists, made clear.) You could answer those people by saying, "Well, it won't all happen at once, and the economy will have time to adjust." Or you could answer by saying, "Maybe you're right. And maybe the economy isn't therefore quite as rational and as obvious as we would like to believe, if in fact it depends on a corrupted celebration of Jesus' birth to stagger on for another year."

The second answer appeals to me. We need a kiss to break our enchantment, and a kiss (a coupon for a kiss! Or a dozen!) is a perfectly fine gift to give for Christmas.

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See more stories tagged with: consumerism, christmas

Bill McKibben is the author of 10 books, most recently Deep Economy: The Wealth of Communities and the Durable Future. He is a scholar in residence at Middlebury College in Vermont.

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Christ IS NOT In The Holiday Christmas
Posted by: NoPCZone on Dec 4, 2007 12:38 AM   
Current rating: 4    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
If your purpose or intent is to honor the person or teachings of Jesus Christ, here are a few examples of how you can really celebrate Christmas.

1- Forgive someone you have a longstanding grudge or problem with.

2- Become a friend to someone who has few friends.

3- Visit a shut-in or shut-out. Someone alone, in the hospital, in prison, a street person, on the margins.

4- Meet an unmet need of someone privately or anonymously.

5- Feed someone who is hungry.

6- Clothe someone who is needy.

7- Extend grace to someone who has wronged you.

8- Be a peacemaker between people in strife.

9- Love someone who is hard to love.

10- Try to not be judgmental.

Grace, Mercy and Peace. Seek these 3 earnestly and the rest will follow. The best part is that it cannot be bought at any price.

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» Yes Posted by: Tom Degan
» RE: Christ IS NOT In The Holiday Christmas Posted by: AMERICAN VETERAN
» Sure, if you're Jesus! Posted by: PaulK
It's the Hypocrisy
Posted by: AlexLawyer on Dec 4, 2007 2:38 AM   
Current rating: 4    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
The worst thing about Christmas is that the very same people who favor warmongering, slaughter of hundreds of thousands of innocent people, torture and our status as the world's largest arms producer and purveyor of violence will go to church and sing about how they love the Prince of Peace, the swarthy little Middle Eastern baby Jesus. Do they think that every one of those kids blasted to bits by our cluster bombs is made in God's image, too? Do they really believe that Jesus told us to love our enemies?

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» RE: It's the Hypocrisy Posted by: Tom Degan
Hark, The Herald....
Posted by: Tom Degan on Dec 4, 2007 2:42 AM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
This great article makes clear that what we all should be doing this Christmas and every Christmas is serving. Indeed, the holiday has become such a oerversion of the ideals and teachings of Jesus Christ that it has become nearly satanic. Instead of giving to ourselves, let's give to the poor.

If you insist on buyuing your children a DVD, please pick up the original animated Grinch program (beautifully narrated by Boris Karloff) or - BETTER STILL - A Charlie Brown Christmas. While everyone around him is going through the meaningless motions expected of everyone this time of year, Charlie is desperately thying to find the true meaning of Christmas. A wonderful program.

I won't be going anywhere near a mall this Holiday season. I won't be buying any gifts for anyone. I won't be doing Christmas; I'll be observing it. The only celebrating we should be doing is the celebration of the birth of the Prince of Peace. That's good for starters, ay?

Tom Degan
Goshen, NY
In The Grip of Ronniemania

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» RE: Hark, The Herald.... Posted by: war_on_tara
» RE: Hark, The Herald.... Posted by: madaha
» RE: Hark, The Herald.... Posted by: VZEQICVA
» RE: Hark, The Herald.... Posted by: athurlow
» RE: Hark, The Herald.... Posted by: gregs765
Let's shut down the retail sector & cause another depression
Posted by: war_on_tara on Dec 4, 2007 3:42 AM   
Current rating: 2    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
I agree that Xmas is too commercial & starts way too early (my main gripe about it), but I'm mystified by all the articles on AlterNet that advocate not buying anything, ever. I work in retail. Are you folks trying to drive me out of a job?

It seems exactly as if you want to shut down the retail sector entirely in the season where it makes 40% of sales, drive millions of people out of work, and cause another Great Depression.

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» yes we need much less retail Posted by: deborama
» Notice all the ads on this site? Posted by: war_on_tara
» thanks, Anna! Posted by: war_on_tara
» You Could Say Posted by: pdxstudent
» RE:What about this Posted by: Sushi
Xmas in the third world
Posted by: overseas on Dec 4, 2007 4:53 AM   
Current rating: 4    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
This is my 12th year having xmas as an American working in a thirdworld country. The true spirit of xmas comes through easily when one is far away from the malls and chaotic hyperconsumption. In the blasted out ghettos of Iraq, in remote villages in Africa, and in the cold mountains of the Balkans...xmas comes and goes and rarely means more than a day when a kid may get an extra piece of bread. My family and I have managed to celebrate the simplicity of xmas in far off places and to try and do something for someone less fortunate. We are lucky to have this chance. It is a gift we cherish.

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» RE: Xmas in the third world Posted by: richholland
Ugh. Sentimental nonsense.
Posted by: war_on_tara on Dec 4, 2007 5:11 AM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Why is it that a place like AlterNet is so full of atheists and agnostics 11 months of the year, blasting away at ALL religion, and now we get all these mawkish lectures about the True Meaning of Christmas?

I don't consider myself a complete Grinch, but I must be in the middle someplace. I'm no longer a Christian and, at any rate, don't look to someone like Bill McKibben for religious advice.

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» RE: Ugh. Sentimental nonsense. Posted by: jumperladd
Why mainly Christians?
Posted by: cristina_c79 on Dec 4, 2007 5:15 AM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
I like this article and I agree with many parts of it, but why did you feel the need to specify "Note: this line of reasoning is probably especially strong for those of us who are Christians, and recall that the occasion ..." Not being a Christian, but someone who has bought animals from FarmAfrica more than once and has made many friends do the same, I feel a little offended by this sentence which sounds to me "US=good, them=buddies". I think you did not need to specify that you are Christian and imply that you care more because of that. Having said that, I agree with all you say in your article. You see, we atheists are not that bad... ;-)

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» RE: Why mainly Christians? Posted by: sophiej
The overcommercialization of "Christmas" is no different from our yearly "elections".
Posted by: maxpayne on Dec 4, 2007 6:04 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
See, it starts out by the end of Halloween ! And then they go so overboard with it that by the time Christmas Day DECEMBER 25th arrives, people are so GAGGED out that their general feeling is "ENOUGH ALREADY !!!!" and so from December 25th - 31st, Christmas is IGNORED ! My wife and I don't bother with Christmas until around December 23rd and then we dive into it up to New Year's Day like real Christians.

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xmas
Posted by: JOHN L. on Dec 4, 2007 6:33 AM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
The problem with "christmas is...CHRISTMAS!
It is purely a man-made non-event, as is all "BELIEF" in ficticious entities and events.
For those who need to take it further (why?)...in the book/'bible', jesus said "Celibrate my death (easter), not my birth (christmas)."
More: His 'birth' was not in december, according to all research.

All is irrelevant however, as no one has ever demonstrated any evidence of a diety, no man in the sky, etc, etc...
You "god" is claimed to be All powerfull, the creator of everything, all seeing, all aware, etc, etc...yet TOTALLY irresponsible for any and all misery.

IF there was such, I would want no part of 'him'...

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» 1 corinthians 11 24-26 Posted by: Tombo
» Can We Look At Some Other Verses? Posted by: Overburdened Planet
» RE: xmas Posted by: nochicagoboys
I serve all year along. Christmas is a time for me to rejuvenate.
Posted by: veggiegrrrl on Dec 4, 2007 6:35 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
I serve others all year along. Christmas is a time for me to veg out and rejuvenate. I don't participate in Xmas for all the above reasons, plus I was not born into the Jesus faiths. I have two weeks off at Christmas. This is the time of year I do things for myself after doing for others all year long. Christmas doesn't have to be about service to others when your JOB is service to others. When we serve others all year long, it is perfectly fine to take a break so we don't burn out. This winter break, some of us deserve to do nothing except read a good book and get a massage.

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Changing bad habits
Posted by: relevepasse on Dec 4, 2007 6:39 AM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Yes, it is possible to change bad habits, to get out of the strangle hold of a debt ridden consumer Christmas. It is possible to go back to what the true meaning of Christmas is and sometimes it comes from the most incredible source. Our daughter called home at the end of November during her first year at University and asked if we'd done any Christmas shopping yet. I told her no, not yet and she floored me with the statement - "Please don't do any shopping for me - you have done so much already. I know how expensive college is, thank you.' We have now been celebrating Christmas 'gift-free' for four years and feel no guilt, are significantly less stressed and hopefully are setting an example that will influence our entire extended family. STOP the INSANITY! Sharing time together has become the greatest gift of all.

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Be careful with the Cow thing...
Posted by: optimist on Dec 4, 2007 6:58 AM   
Current rating: 4    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Turns out that Heifer International and Oxfam and other animal give away programs aren't what they seem. There is a boycott of these services going on because often the animals are placed with people that can't afford to take care of them. The animals end up eating the grain that could sustain the family! Many of the animals are either butchered on the spot or suffer. Please see:

http://getactive.peta.org/campaign/oxfam_alert

or

http://tinyurl.com/38ppcc


Thanks so much -

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SOME PEOPLE BUY ALL YEAR ROUND
Posted by: VZEQICVA on Dec 4, 2007 8:10 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
I've noticed that people who go nuts at Christ-
mas time do it all the time. They are compulsive buyers throughout the year. And so they start to turn up the volume before the rest of us. But I do love Christmas. Most people get a little nicer. Thanks, ANNA

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» RE: SOME PEOPLE BUY ALL YEAR ROUND Posted by: richholland
Ignore Christmas
Posted by: stina723 on Dec 4, 2007 8:14 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Last year, I decided to "ignore" Christmas, at least the commercialized, materialistic aspect of it. Christmas cards are a waste of paper and precious resources (trees). Most people will probably just throw your card out anyway...Christmas lights waste electricity...the list could go on and on...I realized I dreaded this time of year, it was very stressful. So I decided to just ignore it. And now I'm happy!!! I'm actually looking forward to xmas. I get a four day weekend that I can enjoy anyway I want! I'm going to do some work around my apt and go out to dinner w/ friends on xmas eve.

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Problem With Christmas
Posted by: fishita on Dec 4, 2007 8:18 AM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Gosh, I think how we celebrate Christmas is how we celebrate life. It is what you make it. If you don't choose to buy gifts because you don't feel that's what Christmas is about, fine. But please don't be so judgmental towards the rest of us who have no problem buying or making gifts for the people in their lives. I find all the nay-sayers about the commercialization of Christmas more of a downer than the actual commercialization. Don't forget if you believe in the story of the birth of Jesus, the three wise men brought gifts for the baby Jesus. So blame them for starting the gift giving thing and take a time-out from judging your fellow man! In peace....

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Retail IS the Problem
Posted by: StuartH on Dec 4, 2007 8:26 AM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Burn me at the stake for uttering heresy, but the real issue in Christmas is in fact, retail.

A retail industry person above pointed out that if everybody quit buying stuff, the retail industry would suffer and by extension, the rest of the economy.

This is true, but that is also the crux of a dilemma. The consumer economy as we know it was really ramped up after WWII as a means of keeping the level of economic activity from the war years going, but transitioning to a manufacturing and retail mode. Advertising really kicked into high gear because there was a need to turn thrifty, penny pinching Americans into big spenders.

Now, as we look at the big picture, we see that all this focus on consumer economics has created a dependency that in the long run is unsustainable. America, a very small percentage of the world population consumes an very outsize portion of all the resources in the world. We are entering an era, for instance, in which gasoline prices will continue to rise because the overall resource supply versus demand will be less and less in the consumer's favor.

I recently went through a long and exhausting process of working through a house full of Christmas gifts from as far back as the 1930s and trying to figure out how to sell of give it away. That is the ultimate end of the rush to buy stuff for Christmas.

You have to ask, if you have any interest in where all this is going, what happens if an economy based on making, transporting, selling, storing, and reselling stuff can no longer be relied on? Then what?

I think that, to point out that our economic bag of tricks only has one trick - to sell stuff - is correct and that people buying less stuff will impair the retail goose laying our golden eggs. However, I think it is short sighted to stop there. We need to develop more tricks in our economic bag of tricks and to find other ways of generating jobs and wealth aside from choking the world with more and more stuff, and depleting resources to do it. Really, we have to if we are going to survive in the long term.

In the short term, I doubt anyone in retail will suffer. Thoughtful people will think long term and move into new opportunities as the years advance.
Make hay while the sun shines!

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» RE: etail IS the Problem Posted by: richholland
Christmas is really the Winter Solstice
Posted by: nfamous on Dec 4, 2007 9:57 AM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
These are all good comments, especially the one about the false idea that giving is mostly a Christian concept. What was the author thinking on that one? Giving is part of all religions and nonbelievers as well. Material consumption has nothing to do with God. People give to make people happy or out of guilt of reciprocity or even to get sex. We have been lied to by corporations in this country and bought it hook, line and sinker. We have lost everything that makes us human except our very bodies. The average Americans has less than three close friends. That tells a whole story on its own.

We are headed into a depression of historic proportions that will make the Great Depression look like a bad day at the beach. It wasn't caused by people not purchasing. It was caused by the illegal private company The Federal Reserve printing money out of thin air and causing inflation with nothing to back our currency since the gold standard ended.

People keep asking if it's possible to break this cycle. Yes it's possible but it is not likely. Americans are besieged with consumerism and corporations will not do the moral thing. They are cold-blooded profit-making machines. That is abhorrent to the natural state of man except for the few authoritarian jerks that run the world after inheriting fortunes from their ancestors. People in this country don't read anymore and when they do it's usually lies and propaganda. They never consider the biases of their sources. All news is controlled by five media companies and soon to be even less.

We turned our back on democracy and now it has turned its back on us. Frankly we collectively deserve it but I'd rather worry about undoing the damage if I thought it was possible. Religion and racism will prevent the level of healing necessary to reverse this trend although we may delay it inevitably. In other words stop trying to be a good person only during the holidays or on Sundays if you attend services. We need year round morality from believers and nonbelievers alike if we are to defeat the corporate global beast that has enslaved us and our families.

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Buy wise presents-
Posted by: WitchyNy on Dec 4, 2007 11:48 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Americans are not going to give up Christmas.
But if we could just get them to stay out of the Malls-
Buy PROTEST Christmas Presents.

Send donations to progressive groups in people's names.
Buy DVD's of Michael Moore's move SICKO
(buy ALL of his movies)
Buy progressive books-radical tee shits and bumper stickers-
And be sure watch the old move- IT'S A WONDERFUL LIFE. It shows EXACTLY what is wrong with our country and what we need to do about it.
Buy presents from LOCAL artists.
Buy presents of vegetarian food and a membership in a local food co-op.

Vote with your Christmas Presents.

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» RE: Buy wise presents- Posted by: richholland
» RE: Buy wise presents- Posted by: WitchyNy
The Poets Knew before the Social Scientists
Posted by: drricklippin on Dec 4, 2007 12:03 PM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
"Getting and spending we lay waste our powers"

Poet William Wordsworth

Read poetry -That is where "the REAL news" is

Dr. Rick Lippin
Southampton, Pa

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Just another way organized religion destroys
Posted by: thelostsailor on Dec 4, 2007 12:53 PM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Just like many other denominations, organized religion has a long track record (since the Crusades) for obliterating human lives, whole governments, and the environment.
Granted the religions aren't completely to blame- the 'Hallmark' nature of so many religious holidays has been championed by countless corporations and smaller companies alike that seek to capitalize on the soft spot in people's holy hearts.
Yet the governing bodies of all these denominations don't shun this materialism, but cherish the publicity.

Abandon you contrived organized religion and go find your spiritual self in the natural world. Organized religion only isolates you from what is real. The self-righteous and power hungry ultimately lead organized religion and this leads to bloodshed, environmental destruction, and worse. No person is holier than you!
Hope all have a great Solstice!!!
:)

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I'm trying something different this year...
Posted by: babs on Dec 4, 2007 1:21 PM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Sick of trying to buy gifts for people who need nothing, I've decided to do something every day to brighten a life, whether personally or anonymously. I might even extend that past Xmas and see how long I can do it.

So far it's working out great. At least twice a week I pay for someone's coffee in the car behind me at the Tim Horton's - last car contained 2 Afghanistan veterans and they so deserve my thanks. I give what I can on other days to the Salvation Army. I donated money to the Toronto Star Santa fund (a 101 year old charity) which delivers food, warm clothing and small gifts and toys for low income families. In another vein, I adopted a 2 year old cat from the local shelter - she doesn't know it's Xmas but she's got a whole house and friendly peeps now rather than a small cage.

I have a friend in the restaurant business (in Ottawa) who serves a free full dinner on Xmas day, all day - his place seats hundreds so it's no small feat. Regardless of status or ability to pay, all are welcome. Some diners are alone on Xmas and a bit of company and good food goes a long way to stave off the loneliness of the much touted "family" holiday that seems to leave out those who are the most vulnerable. I give my friend a cheque to help with that each year - it's the least I can do.

Maybe others can come up with ideas for small acts of kindness and generosity. I don't buy gifts for anyone but my son, and he just announced that he wants me to take the money I would spend on him and buy myself something I need. Of course, I won't do that but I sure am proud of my boy for that.

And making anonymous gifts make me smile - I put myself in the recipient's place and it just makes my day. It's excellent therapy and way to create a few positives in a world that is getting scarier by the day.

happy holidays to all.

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I don't like it
Posted by: Jeanne on Dec 4, 2007 4:47 PM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
and I wonder when it stopped being a holiday to look forward to. I remember enjoying decorating and buying gifts when my children were young. I spent time buying and sending gifts to family in other states and other countries. Was it a worthy of the effort because it's all about the kids? Now that they're grown up it just seems like a lot of useless hooey to enrich merchants and stress out people to entertain, shop, give gifts, dress up, etc. etc.? Or, perhaps, given the state of our country which is in constant war and in dire economic circumstances, celebrating Xmas in the manner that Madison Ave and Wall Street want it celebrated seems -- well, sheepishly asinine.

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GIVE ONLY DONATIONS
Posted by: thelostsailor on Dec 4, 2007 5:04 PM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
to offset the pain inflicted by Santa....
(not to religious groups!)

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Ideas on getting others onboard?
Posted by: boygranddakar on Dec 4, 2007 8:49 PM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
For the past few years, I have decided to "opt-out" of Christmas and made it clear to my family: Don't buy me presents, I won't buy you presents, I just want to spend time with you. I ended up compromising on this, and now I make photo calendars for my immediate family from photos I took myself. I also buy things for the children in my family because I believe these are an inextricable aspect of Christmas for kids, and I don't mind getting them books or beautiful DVDs, like the movies of Hayao Miyazaki.

The difficulty came when I got married, and trying to explain this to my in-laws has been tricky. One of my mothers-in-law, for example, only received money for her birthday and holidays from her parents, never gifts, and in her adult life she treasures gifts for that reason. (She does enjoy gift certificates for massages, dinner, etc., but she also needs at least a few *things* to open.) But she and my other mother-in-law have so much STUFF, my spouse and I despair over what to get them.

It's one thing to modify my own choices of what I do for Christmas, but none of us live in a vacuum. Does anyone have ideas about how to discuss these issues with family? Or, of how to negotiate the differences when I want and non-materialistic Christmas, but I'm swimming against the family tide?

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» RE: Ideas on getting others onboard? Posted by: boygranddakar
I posted this before in a reply, and I'll post it again here! The problem with fellow atheists...
Posted by: Emily419 on Dec 4, 2007 9:37 PM   
Current rating: 2    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
You know, I'm somewhat of an Atheist myself, but it's egocentric "beliefs" such as yours that iritate me even more than the beliefs I disagree with in the Christian religion and religious community itself. Your intolerance is not any better than hardcore religious followers who try to force their beliefs on others and declare they are the only ones who hold the truth. It is not a "problem" that people have created their own beliefs about understanding the world, their lives, and ways of celebrating. It's called CULTURE and it's not a bad thing in and of itself. It is only a bad thing when beliefs are used as a tool for control, oppression, and manipulation. (try reading "When Religion Becomes Evil" by Charles Kimball)

"All is irrelevant however, as no one has ever demonstrated any evidence of a diety, no man in the sky, etc, etc...
You "god" is claimed to be All powerfull, the creator of everything, all seeing, all aware, etc, etc...yet TOTALLY irresponsible for any and all misery."

What's irrelevant is whether or not there is any proof of a diety or not. The beliefs still can serve many positive functions in our culture such as community, solidarity, meaning, love, happiness, etc. You seem to priviledge the scientific method as if it is the best way to understand the world and has all the answers.

Furthermore, as a non-believer, you are criticising a religion without trying to understand it from a believers perspective which makes your argument faulty. You have to understand what you disagree with to know why you don't agree. From a Christian's perspective, "all powerful creator" gave humans free will. What this does is make the compassion and love in the world that much more beautiful since it was not forced. We are not predetermined. God has a plan and it's our choice to follow it or not. Atleast this is how it was explained to me and it makes since. How irrelevant life would be if we were all pre-programmed robots.

It's your choice to have no part it in. Even though I am not a Christian, it is impossible to grow up in this country and say you haven't been affected by their values and beliefs. I enjoy celebrating holidays and making them my own by finding my own significances, meanings, and making my own traditions rather than allow my personal criticisms to completely take the fun out of everything.

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» Emily419, How Unclear Can You Get? Part 1 Posted by: Overburdened Planet
» Emily419, How Unclear Can You Get? Part 2 Posted by: Overburdened Planet
X MASS NOT THE TEACHINGS OF THE MESSIAH
Posted by: Jangeen@netzero.net on Dec 5, 2007 7:19 AM   
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Thank God X Mass, Easter and Sunday worship are not the teachings of Jesus (PBUH)

bible Mark7:7 Howbeit in vain do they worship me, teaching for doctrines the commandments of men. 8 For laying aside the commandments of God, ye hold the tradition of men, as the washing of pots and cups: and many other such like things ye do. 9 And he said unto them, Full well ye reject the commandments of God, that ye may keep your own tradition.

Also: Jeremiah 10:2 Thus saith the LORD, Learn not the way of the heathen, and be not dismayed at the signs of heaven; for the heathen are dismayed at them. 3 For the custom of people are in vain: for one cutteth a tree out of the forest, the work of the hands of the workman, with the axe. 4 They deck it with silver and with gold; they fasten it with nails and with hammers, that it move not. 5 They are upright as the palm tree, but the speak not: they must need be borne, because they cannot go. Be not afraid of them; for they cannot do evil, neither also is it in them to do good.

Constantine did the job in the year 325 first at the Council of Nicaea, and later Saul (Paul) the actual founder of Christianity. Is it that True!

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Excess Christmas Consumption Blues ?
Posted by: pwhite97624 on Dec 8, 2007 2:06 PM   
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We should all simply gather 'round the Sacred Christmas Tree and sing Carol Channing songs from Broadway -- you know, "Hello Dolly", "Diamonds are a girl's best friend", and in particular, "Sammy the Snake" (from Sesame Street, circa 1970's).

ESPECIALLY SING "SAMMY THE SNAKE" - It'll relieve all that "pressure". DO IT NOW !!

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revrmaury
Posted by: revrmaury on Dec 9, 2007 5:07 PM   
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Dear Bill, How wonder-full has been your prodigious organizational efforts & those in the Middlebury College community. As for Christ-Mass it is all that can be said. Still...today I took 14 Youth (age 14-18) to a Mall to spend $ they had raised to buy gifts for children living in a shelter for battered families in DC. It was magical. Hannah Adrendt says that Jesus taught "forgiveness." Such a notion was so revolutionary that a story was imagined about a magical birth. Could it lead us to peace? to be children of the Holy? to a way to reconstitute human-ness? It is a time of Wonder which can be transformative, your task. Can the good, fair, just compassion & care be sustained w/o faith stories? Ask Peter Pan...

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What I can't wait for is
Posted by: TheLimit on Dec 10, 2007 3:51 PM   
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the time when other people don't get to drive the way I celebrate the holidays.

This not only means that I don't need retail telling me how to celebrate (not to mention what to celebrate), but I don't need the media's input either.

For years my family has exchanged wish lists; not only to we get what we want, but as often as not it's something we have a need for and would have bought anyway. We do give handmade gifts, where appropriate. None of us is independently wealthy, and we don't expect anyone to beggar themselves for sake of a major consumer show.

We eat what we like and how much, we don't feel the need to founder ourselves at Thanksgiving, or Christmas, or any other time of year.

So that's my wish: that my holidays NOT be defined, nor my way of celebrating denigrated, by others.

If something about my celebration seems self indulgent to you, pleae keep your judgements to yourself, and I promise to do the same.

Merry Christmas.

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it's about time
Posted by: Lilykins on Dec 10, 2007 4:36 PM   
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it's about time Americans became disillusioned with the idea that getting/owing STUFF is going to bring happiness.
This has been shoved down our throats for a very long time. It's served the people at the top who profit from wild consumerism and the banks/credit that profit from people's debts.
Think about how most ads make us feel insecure, or inadequate if we don't buy their products!
Being manipulated has long been the way of life for the average American.
Whether you think Christmas is a Christian holiday or not...we can all agree that it's much more more meaningful if we take the time to celebrate love...love of family and friends, love of humanity (giving things/money/time to those in need), and love of mother earth.

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» RE: it's about time Posted by: TheLimit
The most wonderful time of the year
Posted by: Rick336 on Dec 29, 2007 12:33 AM   
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I LOVE Christmas. I love the music, the food, the lights, the decorations, the gifts, the gatherings of families and friends, the Christmas cards....I love it all. I'm in the Christmas spirit from about December 10th until January 2nd. I think the holidays are the most wonderful time of year.

I know a lot of people who hate Christmas. I feel very fortunate that I love it like I do. It's a beautiful time of year. And my love for Christmas has nothing to do with Jesus. I'm an atheist.

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