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Environment

Carbon Capture: Miracle Cure for Global Warming, or Deadly Liability?

By Megan Tady, AlterNet. Posted November 24, 2007.


A new technology to capture carbon from power plants and store it underground has been dubbed a miracle cure for global warming. But critics think it puts us in more danger.
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Technology to siphon off carbon dioxide from power plants and insert it into rock formations has the government, industry and many leading environmental groups wiping their brows and sighing, "phew." They say "carbon capture and storage" could be one of the central keys to unlocking how the world beats back climate change.

But for a growing list of critics, injecting carbon dioxide into the earth is as risky as sticking a Botox needle into a brow -- who really knows what's going on under the skin? And because this climate cure comes with no prescription to radically change the world's energy diet, skeptics say carbon capture and storage (CCS) is a diversion and a false solution.

CCS is the process of collecting carbon dioxide emissions from sources such as fossil fuel-burning power plants before it reaches the atmosphere and storing it in deep geological formations or in the ocean. While the technology to capture the carbon is already commercially available, and CO2 injection pilot projects are under way, any large-scale plans to capture and store carbon have been mostly elusive.

What's clear, however, is that efforts to push for CCS as one of the most promising technological fixes are heavily under way, just as holes in the plan are slowly bubbling to the surface.

This month, several scientists testified before the Senate Subcommittee on Science, Technology and Innovation that major financial investments are urgently needed to make CCS available within the next decade. Howard Herzog, a principal researcher with Massachusetts Institute of Technology's Laboratory for Energy and the Environment, said a commitment of $1 billion a year is needed.

The meeting coincided with new legislation introduced by Sen. John Kerry, who chairs the subcommittee, to advance CCS. His bill would establish three to five coal-fired "demonstration" plants with CCS technology, and three to five facilities for sequestration, another term for CCS.

In October, the Environmental Protection Agency (EPA) announced it was writing CCS regulations, and last week, OPEC leaders unveiled CCS as the showpiece of their new "energy and environment" agenda.

Not to be left out, some environmental groups are taking their turn around the track with the CCS baton. In July, the National Resources Defense Committee (NRDC) joined Herzog and several other scientists in penning a letter supporting CCS. Other environmental groups supporting CCS are the World Resources Institute, Environmental Defense, and the Pew Center on Global Climate Change.

CCS as a bridge

While the warnings about the effects of climate change are stark, governments have continued to shovel fossil fuels as if they weren't going out of style. Coal plants in the United States spew out 1.5 billion tons of carbon dioxide every year, dozens of new coal plants are elbowing each other in the queue, and China and India are throwing around coal like a newly rich lottery winner tosses cash.

With all the coal and oil usage, breaking the addiction seems more like drug-induced crazy talk than a reality -- which is why groups like the NRDC say CCS would help ease the world into detox while turning to renewable energy.

The NRDC-signed letter says, "The world still relies heavily on fossil fuels though, and breaking this dependence, even with greatly accelerated energy efficiency and renewables deployment, will not happen overnight. Practical reason demonstrates that we urgently need a means to decarbonize fossil fuel use. CCS is a technology capable of doing so."

Professor Robert Jackson, chair of Global Environmental Change at Duke University, said CCS should be a short-term strategy. "Because of the abundance of coal resources in this country, and because of our current reliance on coal, I do think, with some reservations, that this is a technology that we should push hard for and figure out if it works," he said. "And if it works, use [CCS] as a bridge to better forms of energy generation in the future."

And David Morris, director of the Institute for Local Self-Reliance, says any attempt to reduce carbon dioxide emissions dramatically must target emissions from existing power plants.

"We have to figure out a way to sequester the carbon emissions coming from those plants, or we need to close them down," Morris said. "While people are looking to have a moratorium on new coal-fired power plants, and I agree with that, it's the existing ones that one has to deal with in terms of sequestration."

But to others, CCS is a bridge that should never be built because of where it could lead. Matt Leonard, a campaigner with the Rainforest Action Network, a group calling for a coal moratorium, said CCS is a public relations scheme to pave the way for new coal-fired power plants.

"The coal industry is grasping at straws trying to find some way to convince the public that they have a place in our future energy policy," Leonard said. "And carbon sequestration is their attempt to brand some kind of PR campaign to have clean coal be a possibility."


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See more stories tagged with: global warming, climate change, carbon, carbon sequestration

Megan Tady is a national political reporter for InTheseTimes.com. Previously, she worked as a reporter for the NewStandard, where she published nearly 100 articles in one year. Megan has also written for Clamor, CommonDreams, E Magazine, Maisonneuve, PopandPolitics and Reuters.

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View:
Tricking the Genie into the bottle!
Posted by: EDRO on Nov 24, 2007 1:45 AM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Sometime in the far future an intelligent species from another galaxy, who might stumble upon Ears [c.f., Mars,] would conclude the ‘omniscient’ humans didn’t make it because they never learned that converting resources into waste was a zero sum game. And CO2 was one nasty Genie you couldn't trick [back] into the bottle!

[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]

Thermodynamics and Mass
Posted by: GPFrank on Nov 24, 2007 5:45 AM   
Current rating: 2    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
I recently calculated that carbon sequestration will require at least 30 percent of the energy
output from coal. It is only a problem for
a college freshman to calculate the energy required to compress CO2 to the pressure of one atmosphere (standard conditions) and then to condense it to a solid. Then you have to mine or dig for the sequestrant. (I wonder how much limestone there is) Really, " a billion here, a billion there" is toxic to the brains of those who think they are going to make money on a
boondogle.

I don't care how clean coal they say it is. If you have ever been near a power plant's smokestack it stinks.

As a further note, the coal emissions could even be addictive. When I was safety officer for a union we had to drag workers away from a job that was toxic. they didn't want to give it up.

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» RE: Thermodynamics and Mass Posted by: Daniel35
the CCS shell game
Posted by: mwildfire on Nov 24, 2007 6:30 AM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Another issue here is that TALKING about CCS allows the powers that be to propose new coal-burning plants, and coal-to-liquids refineries. The game they play is this: they say we have to keep using coal because it's cheap. When you point out that we can't responsibly keep using a fuel that spews more CO2 than any other, they wave around their magic wand with the words "carbon sequestration" printed on it, as though that would make the greenhouse gases go away. But they don't want to propose more than a couple of ACTUAL plants that ACTUALLY sequester the carbon, because then the coal is no longer cheap--so why the hell aren't we subsidizing solar research or windmill advancements instead? Most of the time, they just want to use the CONCEPT of sequestration to fend off objections to coal projects.
The thing is, global climate change is advancing on us like the monster in a horror movie, faster and faster. We don't have time to screw around with false "solutions" like CCS and ethanol; we need to be running full tilt toward real solutions, including energy efficiency technologies, reductions in total use, and massive R&D and construction of windmills, concentrated solar thermal plants in the southwestern deserts especially,and solar panels on tens of millions of roofs. The latter, especially, are also expensive--but once they're in place the fuel is free and there is no pollution, no CO2!
The problem is that our so-called democracy has been so thoroughly captured by corporations that the people no longer have significant influence over lawmakers who need to institute the required policies. They respond to the needs of the contributors who put them in office, mainly corporations which "need" more profit over the next quarter or the next year--the survival of the human race is not important enough to compete with that imperative.
The "green" groups mentioned in this piece have a long history of selling out to corporations, and need not be taken seriously as representing environmentalists.

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» RE: the CCS shell game Posted by: racetoinfinity
Always interesting.....
Posted by: oldwoman on Nov 24, 2007 6:40 AM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
that corporate entities of the nation are eager to have government take responsibility for crap the corporations produce (as pointed out in the article) but are adamantly opposed to government taking responsibility for such things as ensuring the health of their customers--via health insurance or industry regulation.

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So how will we generate electircity
Posted by: robchapman on Nov 24, 2007 6:52 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
The article on the sequestration of CO2 was interesting and instructive.

But the author left out as important segment of the question- what technology do we have to replace coal as a fuel for electrical generators?

The anti-sequestration argument fails to provide proposals on suitable alternatives to the current technology and it fails to consider a political and economic strategy for imnplementing them.

By not adressing these aspects the anti-sequestration proponents leave the reader with the impression that without sequestration, there is no other alleviation for the continued uptick of atmospheric carbon.

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Just like the unthinking idiots who dumped DDT into the environment
Posted by: rjgwood on Nov 24, 2007 6:52 AM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
The thinking is, well, its a mountain, its rock, non-living, so it will be okay, without the realization that our environment doesn't contained closed systems that do not impact other systems. They probaby don't believe in evolution, either, and they think jebus is coming back in a few years anyway to save them (the rest of us godless heathens will be destroyed with the earth), so it doesn't really matter anyway. Either that, or that they are so compelled by greed that they just don't give a damn.

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Agricultural Carbon Sequestration
Posted by: P.E.A.C.E. on Nov 24, 2007 6:59 AM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
What if there is an organic agricultural crop that can sequester a ton of atmospheric carbon, per acre, per year?

And what if that plant could make biodegradable plastics and a multitude of strong, light-weight building materials that would serve as carbon sinks for what is now atmospheric pollution?

And what if we could make everything that's currently being made from petroleum, better, cheaper, with less pollution out of this crop?

And what if that same crop was the most nutritionally complete, potentially abundant, and globally available agricultural resource on Earth?

And what if the same plant produced atmospheric aerosols called "monoterpenes," that reflect solar radiation back into space and seed cloud formation, protecting the planet from the Sun?

And what if the same rotational crop had exceptionally beneficial properties that helped other crops to grow, discouraged pest infestation, produced biogenic pesticides, regenerated damaged and depleted soil, allowing humankind to expand the arable base?

If there is such a plant, then wouldn't worsening conditions of environment, economics, food security, and social evolution justify suspension of the counter-productive "drug laws," to allow for a massive planting of this unique and essential agricultural resource?

Have unique and essential natural resources ever been within the rightful jurisdiction of any court?

How bad do things have to get before all solutions are considered?

Freedom to Farm, 2008.

Because time is the limiting factor in the equation of survival, and
We have nothing to fear but the atmosphere itself.

Paul J. von Hartmann
California Cannabis Ministry
http://www.californiacannabisministry.blogspot.com

Project P.E.A.C.E.
Planet Ecology Advancing Conscious Economics
http://www.webspawner.com/users/projectpeace

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» RE: bornxeyed Posted by: Lincoln fan
» Soil carbonization Posted by: MartianBachelor
Be Suspicious
Posted by: InsertNameHere on Nov 24, 2007 7:24 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Anytime someone poses that the solution to some environmental pollutant is to bury it, we should always be suspicious. You don't even need to know anything about science to know that this is really just hiding a problem for future generations to deal with.

'Look, now we can burn all the coal we want, it's clean!' It's the Atkins diet for the energy industry, it's low-carb!

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Progress
Posted by: modeler on Nov 24, 2007 7:41 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
As humans we have come to find the reason for all sort of things due to our brainpower. We can see what is going to come. In this respect we are better than all the living things in past aeons. The Dinosaurs sure as hell did have no idea what was going to happen to them. Progress!

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Its A SCAM!
Posted by: DrColes on Nov 24, 2007 7:48 AM   
Current rating: 1    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
The debate is over; it’s political propaganda NOT science. UK court says Gore is a fraud. August 2007 Update: Man-made Catastrophic Global Warming Not True. Unfortunately, Hansen is a political hack of George Soros. Further, flawed NASA Global Warming data paid for by George Soros. In order to be an intelligent reader you must have a basic knowledge. Please do your own homework; a starting point http://www.InteliOrg.com/ Remember CONSENSUS is NEVER science it’s always a POLITICAL STATEMENT (Party Line).

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» RE: Its A SCAM! Posted by: particle
This is utterly idiotic.
Posted by: JoshuaLudd on Nov 24, 2007 7:53 AM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
You want to sequester carbon? REPLANT SOME OF THE TREES WE'VE CUT DOWN!!!! STOP BURNING THE RAINFORESTS!

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» RE: This is utterly idiotic. Posted by: justAnEgg
» Which is another reason... Posted by: JoshuaLudd
» RE: This is utterly idiotic. Posted by: bornxeyed
» RE: bornxeyed Posted by: Lincoln fan
» Where has all the carbon gone? Posted by: bornxeyed
» RE: This is utterly idiotic. Posted by: racetoinfinity
» Re:This is utterly idiotic. Posted by: bornxeyed
Clean Energy’s Best-Kept Secret: Waste Heat Recovery
Posted by: justAnEgg on Nov 24, 2007 7:54 AM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
"Of the 500,000 smokestacks in the United States, the 47,500 stacks that produce waste heat above 260 degrees Celsius (500 degrees Fahrenheit) could produce at least 50,000 megawatts of power, says Casten. That’s almost half the energy produced by the U. S. nuclear fleet, he notes. Companies like RED and its competitors, Cain Industries and GTS Energy, Inc., all work to help develop waste heat recovery in the United States."

See the whole article, at:

http://www.commondreams.org/archive/2007/11/21/5386/

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Here are the real solutions, and why the energy biz fears them:
Posted by: thoughtcriminal on Nov 24, 2007 10:17 AM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
This article does a good job of explaining why carbon storage and carbon offsets are just a PR scam aimed at allowing fossil fuel corporations and the banks that own them to continue with business as usual.

So, what are the real alternatives?

1) Energy conservation and energy efficient technology must come first - vehicles that get 100 miles to the gallon, electric vehicles, a great reduction in jet travel and in global shipping, efficient electricity grids, better building design, low-energy agriculture techniques, etc. That means an end to the gross overconsumption lifestyle of the U.S.

2) Solar photovoltaics and solar hot water heating for every single dwelling on the planet. This means living within your means - shorter showers, lights turned off, etc. If you live near the equator, you have much more available sunlight than the northern regions - Africa, Central America, South Asia, and the Middle East are the best regions for solar power.

3) Wind turbines - the big, tall ones - for more notherly regions. These things generate a lot of electricity, especially in coastal offshore regions like the North Sea.

4) Energy storage and distribution systems - sunlight and wind are not available on demand - meaning that all that energy needs to be harvested and stored. A fuel cell-based system that efficiently converts sun and wind power to hydrogen fuel for use on-demand seems like the best system. This is likely best done in centralized power plant facilities. Solar panels on house rooftops will dump energy into central power plants that convert electricity to hydrogen; the hydrogen is converted back to electricity as needed.

This is all feasible, but will require many, many billions of capital investment. It will also make existing global reserves of coal, petroleum and natural gas essentially worthless (if not unavailable due to government regulations).

A few examples:
Chevron's natural gas fields and pipelines in Burma will become defunct. Chevron's plans to import natural gas to California will fall apart.

Exxon's Saudi and African oil reserves will become useless. The Saudi sheiks and their cousins will lose their million-dollar yearly allowances. The NYMEX and IPE energy trading exchanges will vanish into the air.

U.S. and Australian coal interests will find themselves holding stocks with zero value. No new coal-fired power plants will be built, and existing ones will be dismantled.

Electric utilities all around the world will lose more and more cash to off-the grid residences - or they will find themselves having to buy power from individual households. Their large profits will evaporate, and they may go out of business entirely.

So, that's well over 60% of Wall Street that will just evaporate if renewable energy becomes widespread. That's why they are fighting so hard to prevent renewables from coming online - which they've been doing for about a century, actually. Efficient solar hot water systems date back to the late 19th century. The first alcohol-electric hybrid vehicle was patented in 1903.

The control of energy means vast wealth and power for those who control it. Relinquishing control means giving up wealth and power - no more servants, luxury yachts, and Lear jets. However, sunlight and wind are free to any who can tap them - there's no pipeline or field to control. That's the reality of the situation.

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P.S. read this:
Posted by: thoughtcriminal on Nov 24, 2007 10:48 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
James Daley: We need to learn to read our meters Published: 24 November 2007

"When was the last time you checked your gas or electricity meter? It might sound like a bit of a boring question, but, when you consider the size of the average energy bill these days (around £1,000 a year for both gas and electricity), and how much it can cost if you don't keep your meter readings up to date, it starts to become somewhat clearer why it's important. . ."

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» RE: P.S. read this: Posted by: bornxeyed
"Carbon Sequestration" is an Orwellian misnomer
Posted by: don_alejandro on Nov 24, 2007 12:14 PM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Of course, the name "carbon sequestration" is somewhat Orwellian. It should really be called “oxygen sequestration” since carbon is already safely sequestered as coal (which is far more stable and likely to remain underground than high pressure carbon dioxide gas). If we dig up coal(or blow up mountains to make it easy and cheap scrape up thin layers of coal), burn it and then capture and pump the resulting CO2 (well, some of it) underground, the net result will be the capture and sequestering of two oxygen molecules for every carbon molecule we manage to put back underground.

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Here's why CCS doesn't make sense
Posted by: wonkywriter on Nov 24, 2007 12:52 PM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Last month, Xcel Energy postponed construction of the nation's first CCS power plant because of cost. Xcel director Dick Kelly told the Denver Post the plant would be "way over $1 billion" and 20 percent more expensive than a conventional power plant.

The reason Dick Kelly and the Xcel Board made that decision is because of the hard work of two unpaid women environmental activists, Leslie Glustrom and Nancy LaPlata of Clean Energy Action, http://www.cleanenergyaction.org/index.html.

Their argument was so simple it almost sells itself. Carbon capture and sequestration is the taking of "black sunshine"--coal--from deep in the ground, converting it into a gas which is burned to produce the heat that converts water into steam, then trapping the escaping CO2, compressing it and then forcing it back into deep holes in the ground--in essence, putting the carbon back where it came from originally. Coal is carbon that has been sequestered by nature. The solution, according to Clean Energy Action, is not to look downward for our future energy but to look--guess where--upward, toward the sun.

There is a working parabolic solar thermal generating plant in California that produces commercial electricity at a cost of $0.13 per kwh. For comparison, photovoltaic (solar panel) electricity costs about $0.20 per kwh and electricity from dirty coal-fired power plants costs approximately $0.055 per kwh (exclusive of the environmental and health costs of mining, shipping, and burning the coal). An Australian firm has developed a Compact Linear Fresnel Reflector solar system that produces commercial electricity at a cost of $0.10 per kwh (http://www.ausra.com/technology/).

When you consider that Xcel estimates the cost of a new "clean coal" power plant with CCS to be "way over $1B", it doesn't take a genius to realize that it's best to let sleeping CO2 lie.

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Pot & carbon sequestration
Posted by: willymack on Nov 24, 2007 1:56 PM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Why not fields of pot? We could grow it for fun and profit-not to mention huge tax revenues, and at the same time dump the tragic "war on drugs", which isn't fooling anyone any more. As for shooting CO2 into the earth, that's a bonehead idea which will probably NEVER gain any traction, and is most likely a distraction, anyway. The trick here is to develop technology aimed at NOT PRODUCING THE CO2 IN THE FIRST PLACE. If a schmuck like me can think about something like this, imagine what a team of well-funded, dedicated scientists can do.

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Other Alternatives?
Posted by: Togetherness8 on Nov 24, 2007 3:16 PM   
Current rating: 4    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
I am wondering if there may be some way to dissolve carbon atoms, or convert them to some other kind of atomic or molecular structure that would not be harmful to the environment, rather than merely burying carbon, with all of the dangers that that involves. I would like to see scientists and environmentalists experiment with new ways of dissolving new captured emissions of toxic substances, as well as dissolving rather than merely burying older toxic waste substances affecting air, land, and waterways, as well as buried at landfills, with dangers of hazardous leakage into inhabited public areas. Perhaps some new chemical or biological processes could be developed and utilized to sequester and then dissolve new and older toxic wastes of all kinds, as part of a "Green Chemistry" and "Green Biology" science. I have seen some articles posted at the Bioneers website which seem to offer hope for actually dissolving rather than merely burying all kinds of man-made toxic waste substances.

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» RE: Other Alternatives? Posted by: racetoinfinity
Carbon Capture: Deadly Liability indeed
Posted by: AsteroidMiner on Nov 24, 2007 3:45 PM   
Current rating: 4    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Thank you Megan Tady, for a good, but imperfect article. If we can sequester
CO2 underground, why don't we remove CO2 from the air to put underground?
Of course it would be dangerous, as in the Lake Nyos and Lake Monoun Effect.
If we stopped burning coal we could use left over solar energy, if we had any, to
remove CO2 from the air and pump it into those underground reservoirs that King
Coal wants to use up. In so doing, we could reverse the global warming that we
have already caused. Of course, this is just a pipe dream, just like those
"renewable" energy ideas. The only safe energy source that we have technology
for NOW that has any hope of driving out coal by undercutting its cost, is nuclear.
There is no such thing as nuclear "waste." We used to reprocess "spent" fuel and
we should again, and build reactors that use their own "waste" as fuel. Yes, we
have spent the last 60 years improving the safety of nuclear power. Coal kills
20,000 to 30,000 Americans every year by poisoning the air with: URANIUM,
ARSENIC, LEAD, MERCURY, Antimony, Cobalt, Nickel, Copper, Selenium,
Barium, Fluorine, Silver, Beryllium, Iron, Sulfur, Boron, Titanium, Cadmium,
Magnesium, Calcium, Manganese, Vanadium, Chlorine, Aluminum, Chromium,
Molybdenum and Zinc.

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Poisoning The Ground and Air
Posted by: NoPCZone on Nov 24, 2007 6:09 PM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
More human arrogance, thinking that something can be had for nothing. Injecting combustion byproduct into the ground beneath us is not only tail-chasing or re-arranging deck chairs on the Titanic, it will come back to bite us or our children.

Go to the mountains of Colorado where mining has long ago ceased and survey the environmental damage to streams. Actually, anyplace where humans have been playing around in this way will show the effects.

There is no free lunch, folks.

There is a way to live with the earth and many ways to live against it. I suggest that we get on the right track. That does not include buying carbon offsets, sequestering byproduct in the ground, acid leach mining, etc.

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Correct. That is why I called it a pipe dream.
Posted by: AsteroidMiner on Nov 24, 2007 7:43 PM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
I figured the dreamers would not be smart enough to figure that
out. Congratulations.

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Why is this not on the agenda??
Posted by: Gazza126 on Nov 24, 2007 8:01 PM   
Current rating: 4    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
There are two, low cost iniatives that I notice are not being mentioned by anyone.

The first is tidal power. In some parts of the world, tides are as high as 5-7 feet. Dams and generators put in the right places could easily generate huge volumes of electricty.

In fact, a 1986 proposal by the Australian Institute of Electrical Engineers for a tidal power plant in north-western Australia (where 5-ft tides are normal) estimated such a project could increase Australia's total energy output 16-fold.

The other idea, also proposed in the mid-80's - this time by Buckminster Fuller - is for a global electricity grid. Surely a global grid would reduce the world-wide demand for new power plants while allowing us to make far more efficient use of the generating capacity we already have. Heck, if we're lucky, it might even allow us to close down the most polluting power plants forever.

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How much does CCS cost? Too much.
Posted by: GreyFlcn on Nov 25, 2007 12:55 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
How much does CCS cost?

To put things in perspective.

1. Coal used to cost $1000/KW a couple years back.
2. Now complying with the 2005 Clean Air Act coal costs $3000/KW
3. Doing coal with CCS would cost in the range of $6500/KW
4. That costs more than virtually any other renewable energy technology, plus storage.

So really ask yourself, why should we be doing coal at all?

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» RE: How much does CCS cost? Too much. Posted by: Carol Overland
Good view of reality of CSS!
Posted by: Carol Overland on Nov 25, 2007 6:00 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
David Morris and Matt Leonard are BOTH right, we have to deal with the plants now, they're the ones that have created the problem, and new non-CO2 emitting generation (what little there is) are not replacing existing generation. Leonard is dead on in noting the use of CSS to allow IGCC to gain a foothold, waved before us as a panacea, when it doesn't exist yet. The ND experiment is handling a tine fraction of even one plant, and I hear it's leaking like a sieve (anyone out there have the poop on that?).

Cost of CSS is a key to exposing the falacies. Capital cost of IGCC before sequestratrion (last $ figure 7/06) was $2,155,860,763, or $3,595/kW, and it's risen since then -- they're being cancelled all over the country due to excessive cost. With CSS (keep in mind that CSS does not exist on a commercial level), the Booz Allen Hamilton report says that it's only calculated to the plant gate, pipeline, recompression and storage are not included) and even this half-baked plan is so pricy that the industry models default to "cap & trade" and they don't consider it further. For a very conservative recap of IGCC and CSS costs, see testimony of Dr. Elion Amit, MN Dept. of Commerce, and his analysis of Excelsior Energy's Mesaba Project, and those numbers contrasted in red on a chart from "The Path to Carbon Capture and Storage," which is a bunch of crap (and don't even suggest burning all these reports as biomass, too much CO2 and particulate matter):
http://legalectric.org/weblog/1699/

Enough of CO2 generation TALKING about coal, we have to stop producing CO2, shut down existing plants and not build more burners.

Carol A. Overland
Attorney for mncoalgasplant.com, Intervenor in Excelsior Energy/Mesaba Project docket.
www.legalectric.org
www.nocapx2020.info

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Concentrating Solar Power is Carbon Free--and Cheaper! Just Ship the Electrons
Posted by: Leslie Glustrom on Nov 25, 2007 8:09 AM   
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Thanks to Megan and Alternet for an excellent article on the efforts of the fossil fuel industry to hide behind the fig leaf of Carbon Capture and Storage...

The good news is there is a carbon-free alternative for producing electricity called Concentrating Solar Power (think "sunlight and mirrors" to produce the steam for a steam turbine plant)that is also cheaper!! Hopefully Megan can do a story on that before long--that would be wonderful!

For a fun and quick introduction to one form of CSP go to www.ausra.com . Get the school kids in your life to use the website to write fun papers for school about the dawn of the solar age. There is great information there!

More background information is available at www.cleanenergyaction.org.

For more technical informatin on Concentrating Solar Power go to the National Renewable Energy Lab website at www.nrel.gov/csp/troughnet.

Xcel Energy,to their credit, had their engineers take a hard look and compared coal gasification (aka IGCC) to CSP and the numbers are impressive. Concentrating Solar Power beats coal gasification hands down on cost and is fuel, carbon and other pollutant free!

For other parts of the county, we just have to commit to a national transmission system that allows us to "ship electrons" instead of our present system of shipping coal over our antiquated railway system.

After putting their engineers to the task, Xcel Energy found that Concentrating Solar Power plants with 6 hours of thermal storage can be built for $2572/kW while IGCC plants with (only) 50% carbon capture (and no mention of storage) are expected to cost $3912/kW.

CSP has no fuel costs and essentially no waste management costs. IGCC will require a supply of coal (that is mounting steadily in price) and will always lead to increased (not decreased) CO2 emissions and produce massive amounts of solid waste and the $3912/kW doesn't include CO2 storage costs....

Now you can see why Xcel, when they took a close look, "deferred" their plans for a coal gasification plant until after 2015 at the earliest--and no one expects the costs of coal gasification to go down, while CSP costs are expected to fall significantly in the coming decades.

To the extent that other parts of the country have electrical generation needs that they can't meet with efficiency or local generation, we can build a national transmission system that allows us to "ship electrons" instead of our present system of shipping (massively environmentally destructive)coal over our creaky railroad system.

To see Xcel's recently submitted Resource Plan go to www.xcelenergy.com and from the home paqe look under "About Energy and Rates" for the Colorado Resource Plan. The direct url is too long to post here. Sorry...

The numbers comparing CSP to IGCC are on page 1-55. This is in Volume 1, Part 2--and the link for that is also too long for this site...Let me know if you can't find it...

As we say in Clean Energy Action, "Looking for new energy? Look up not down!"

The end of the fossil fuel era is upon us and that holds mountains(excuse the pun)of bad news, but it is also the beginning of the solar era and that is tremendously exciting!

Remember to "Look Up" for the path forward,

Leslie Glustrom with Clean Energy Action in Colorado

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Compression Costs for CO2 alone are $17/ton
Posted by: nanboski on Nov 25, 2007 10:30 AM   
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Eleven gasified coal plants around the U.S. have been cancelled (see Emerging Energy Research LLC, October 5, 2007, "TECO, Nuon Underscore IGCC's Woes." I'll email it to you if you can't locate it.)

Since the report was written in early October, Xcel cancelled its plant, and Southern Company cancelled an IGCC in Orlando that it had already been granted over $235 million (see Federal Register April 6, 2007, Volume 72, Number 66, Page 17143-17149, or DOE/EIS-0383).

Capturing the CO2 takes 20-25% of the plant's energy - so that you must burn 20-25% more coal for the same energy output. (See EPA July 2006 Report on IGCC, Environmental Costs and Footprints).

There are only 3 locations in the world currently capturing and sequestering CO2: Weyburn Canada, under the North Sea in Norway (Statiol), and Al Salah Algeria. EACH location stores 1 million tons/year. THat's a pittance - ONE coal plant emits about 5 million tons CO2/year.

Statoil has released data about how much it's spending to store that CO2: $125,000/day; or $45 million/year for 1 million tons.

And then there's the liability: in th e1960's, the Army Corp injected 165 million gallons of liquid waste from Rocky Mountain Arsenal under the Denver basin, inducing ~1,500 seismic events from 1962-1967, three above Richter magnitude 5. Ironically, my father-in-law, George E. Bardwell (who is now 84 years old), assisted the geologists with the study to prove the statistical correlation between injection and the earthquakes.

Invest in the future. Efficiency is the bridge to renewables.

Nancy LaPlaca nancy@energyjustice.net/coal/igcc for an IGCC fact sheet

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CO2 Compression Costs can be found at WGA website
Posted by: nanboski on Nov 25, 2007 10:33 AM   
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Aaron Koopman gave a presentation at the Western Governor's Association CCS conference Oct. 23-24, 2007 in Denver, and his company, Ramgen, makes the machines that compress CO2. Mr. Koopman said the compression costs are $17/ton. Here's the link:
http://www.westgov.org/wga/initiatives/cdeac/index.htm

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Carbon Capture: Miracle Cure for Global Warming, or Deadly Liability
Posted by: davidhill on Nov 25, 2007 11:46 AM   
Current rating: 3    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
The World Innovation Foundation is the voice of the world's 'INDEPENDENT' scientific community. It is not dictated to by governments or national academies of science. This independence of mind from the control of governments and multi-national financial supported entities, gives the WIF the ability to tell the truth.
Therefore with regard to carbon capturing, what we are doing here is basically putting off as usual, problems that our future generations will have to solve. Therefore carbon capture is just putting off the inevitable and where the big multinationals will make literally billions out of a regime of continuation and where no real solutions are found.
What in essence should be happening is that governments around the world should be investing in the development of a centralised global centre that solves the world's immense problems, not putting them off for others to solve at a later date. We as the independent scientific minds have been telling governments for a decade now to develop the concept of the ORE-STEM complex with its 1000 plus incubator centres around the world. Simply, this mechanism harnesses the world's creative thinking and siphons it into this huge centre to solve the biggest problems that confronts humankind and possibly save it from extinction. It is common sense in reality, as only a mechanism large enough to stop the worst effects of global warming and provide the necessary answers to famine, population explosion (now predicted to be a minimum of 10 billion by 2050 and possibly even 12 billion) and alternative energy sources (new discoveries) et al. Therefore the world has to force forward what the independent scientific community is saying, for if not, we certainly run the greatest risk of all, the extinction of the human experience itself.

Dr David Hill
World Innovation Foundation
Bern, Switzerland


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Carbon Capture: Miracle Cure for Global Warming, or Deadly Liability
Posted by: davidhill on Nov 25, 2007 11:48 AM   
Current rating: 3    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
The World Innovation Foundation is the voice of the world's 'INDEPENDENT' scientific community. It is not dictated to by governments or national academies of science. This independence of mind away from the control of governments and multi-national financial supported entities, gives the WIF the ability to tell the truth.
Therefore with regard to carbon capturing, what we are doing here is basically putting off as usual, problems that our future generations will have to solve. Therefore carbon capture is just putting off the inevitable and where the big multinationals will make literally billions out of a regime of continuation and where no real solutions are found.
What in essence should be happening is that governments around the world should be investing in the development of a centralised global centre that solves the world's immense problems, not putting them off for others to solve at a later date. We as the independent scientific minds have been telling governments for a decade now to develop the concept of the ORE-STEM complex with its 1000 plus incubator centres around the world. Simply, this mechanism harnesses the world's creative thinking and siphons it into this huge centre to solve the biggest problems that confronts humankind and possibly save it from extinction. It is common sense in reality, as only a mechanism large enough to stop the worst effects of global warming and provide the necessary answers to famine, population explosion (now predicted to be a minimum of 10 billion by 2050 and possibly even 12 billion) and alternative energy sources (new discoveries) et al. Therefore the world has to force forward what the independent scientific community is saying, for if not, we certainly run the greatest risk of all, the extinction of the human experience itself.

Dr David Hill
World Innovation Foundation
Bern, Switzerland

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unproved
Posted by: Ames on Nov 25, 2007 4:16 PM   
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here in Australia, our just-recently-booted (hurrah!) government was pushing the geo-sequestration line hard. problem is, it's totally hypothetical and the science doesn't quite add up yet. yet they were prepared to spend millions to fund research.

we currently have a number of proven methods of clean energy which they refused to finance - wind, solar, tidal and other emerging methods which woul require less financing for research and would produce much cleaner energy without the complicating 'what if it all goes wrong' factor.

geo-sequestration is simply a way to delay action and to keep their friends in coal and oil rich and happy and having a virtual monopoly over energy production. forgive my cynicism, but until the science adds up properly and they can be 100% sure about the safety of the carbon storage, i don't want a bar of it. it's too much like nuclear power, with the nasty by-product that has the potential to do some real damage if it doesn't all go to plan (though i acknowledge not quite as catastrophic). it's not a REAL answer to clean energy, it seems like such a waste of time, of which we have so little to act.

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An Intelligent Response to Energy Dinosaurs
Posted by: EDRO on Nov 25, 2007 4:52 PM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Creating a Sustainable Future (CASF), a non-profit organization, is creating a blueprint for the first of a series of research-led, sustainable communities with very low-energy profiles, provisionally named the ’Pioneer Clusters,’ leading the transition to the post-fossil fuel era.

CASF is seeking partners in all focus areas and invites new members to its Steering Committee.

For more information, please visit http://edro.wordpress.com/

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