COMMENTS: 233
Ice Caps Melting Fast: Say Goodbye to the Big Apple?
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What they were all talking about was the moulins, not one moulin but hundreds, possibly thousands. "Moulin" is a word I had only just become familiar with. It is the name for a giant hole in a glacier through which millions of gallons of melt water cascade through to the rock below. The water has the effect of lubricating the glaciers so they move at three times the rate that they did previously.
Some of these moulins in Greenland are so big that they run on the scale of Niagra Falls. The scientists who accompanied these journalists on the trip were almost as alarmed. That is pretty significant because they are world experts on ice and Greenland in particular. We were visiting Ilulissat, Greenland, once a stronghold of Innuit hunters but now with so little ice that the dog sleds are in danger of falling through even in the depth of winter. But it is not the lack of sea ice that worries scientists and should be of serious concern to the inhabitants of coastal zones across the world. Cities like New York and states like Florida are in the front line.
Scientists know this already, but just to give you some idea of the problem, the Greenland ice cap is melting at such a fast rate it is triggering earthquakes as pieces of ice several cubic kilometres in size break up.
Scientists say the acceleration of melting and subsequent speeding up of giant glaciers could be catastrophic in terms of sea level rise and make previous predictions published this year by the Intergovernmental Panel on Climate Change (IPCC) far too low. The glacier at Ilulissat, which it is believed spawned the iceberg which sank the Titantic, is now flowing three times faster into the sea than it was 10 years ago.
Robert Correll, chairman of the Artic Climate Impact Assessment, from Washington told me:"We have seen a massive acceleration of the speed with which these glaciers are moving into the sea. The ice is moving at 2 metres an hour on a front five kilometres long and 1,500 metres deep. "That means that this one glacier puts enough fresh water into the sea in one day to provide drinking water for a city the size New York or London for a year."
Professor Correll, who is also director of the global change programme at the Heinz Centre in Washington said the estimates of sea level rise in the IPCC report in February had been "conservative" and based on data two years old. The range of rise this century had been predicted to be 20 to 60 centimetres, but would be the upper end of this range at a minimum and some now believed it could be two metres. This would have catastrophic effects for European and US coastlines.
He said newly invented ice penetrating radar showed that the melt water was pouring through to the bottom of the glacier creating a melt water lake 500 metres deep causing the glacier "to float on land. "These melt water rivers are lubricating the glacier, like applying oil to a surface and causing it to slide into the sea. It is causing a massive acceleration which could be catastrophic."
The glacier is now moving at 15 kilometres a year into the sea although in periodic surges it moves even faster. He has seen a surge, which he had measured as moving five kilometres in 90 minutes - an extraordinary event.
If all of Greenland melts, something we were previously assured would take thousands of years, but now could be hundreds, then sea level round the world would rise seven metres. That is without any contribution from the Antarctic, the glaciers of Alaska, the Rockies, the Himalayas, or the ocean water expanding as it warms.
So the talk of sea level rise should not be in centuries, it should be decades or perhaps even single years. For 10,000 years, during all of human civilisation sea level remained stable leading us to believe that coastlines remained roughly in the same place. A century ago the sea began to rise one millimetre a year, 20 years ago it had reached two millimetres and this century it has risen to 3 millimetres. This annual rise may not seem much but add hurricane storm surges and high tides and we are soon saying good bye to a lot of coastal settlements -- like the Big Apple.
Switch forward a week from the helicopter ride to George W. Bush's meeting of 16 of the biggest greenhouse gas emitters in Washington last month and what do we hear. We hear lots of rhetoric about how, along with terrorism, climate change is the biggest threat to the earth -- although the catastrophic sea level rise facing our major coastal cities does not rate a mention.
But instead of decisive political action (as with terrorism) we get suggestions from the President of voluntary cuts in emissions, down to the government of each country, and then next summer another conference to discuss where we have got to -- which on past form will be nowhere at all. It did not sound like the much needed change of heart from the President, but just another delaying tactic to tide him over until his term of office ends.
Although it may sound like it, the commentators in Europe are not singling out America for criticism, although it has to be said as often as possible that the US is the world's most profligate nation when it comes to fossil fuel consumption, AND has rejected the only legally binding international agreement that could do something about it. But Europeans are not doing enough either. We need convincing that our own leaders have enough political will to reach the tiny Kyoto targets that are the minimum first step to tackling this problem. The public hears the latest scientists' warnings that an 80% cut in greenhouse gas emissions is needed if we are to stave off catastrophic climate change, yet wait in vain for the policies needed to achieve them.
In my book, protestors wearing George Bush masks are pictured "fiddling while the earth burns." Maybe he is just the lead violinist of the orchestra.
copyright Paul Brown 2007
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Comments are closed-
Posted by: IPF on Oct 10, 2007 12:36 AM
Current rating: 1 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
There is ample proof the Greenland ice is growing thicker inland due to higher rates of snowfall - GOOGLE it. Same for Antarctica. No need to go out and buy a boat, but perhaps a warmer jacket, since we will start cooling here pretty soon.
I mean we had snow - twice - in September, and this is the Southwest. (Alarms going off)
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» RE: Here we go again - The World is Coming to an End!!!
Posted by: chomsky
» RE: Here we go again - The World is Coming to an End!!!
Posted by: chomsky
» RE: Here we go again - The World is Coming to an End!!!
Posted by: IPF
» pfft! pulling up the covers works only against monsters under your bed
Posted by: KaptainSpiffy
» methane from outgassing from warming oceans. have you been paying attention?
Posted by: KaptainSpiffy
» RE: Here we go again - The World is Coming to an End!!!
Posted by: rocketman
» RE: Here we go again - The World is Coming to an End!!!
Posted by: Fat Man at the Buffet Line
» RE: Here we go again - The World is Coming to an End!!!
Posted by: particle
» RE: Here we go again - The World is Coming to an End!!!
Posted by: Fat Man at the Buffet Line
» RE: Here we go again - The World is Coming to an End!!!
Posted by: particle
» Narcissitic pig!
Posted by: skoog5600
» RE: Narcissitic pig!
Posted by: Fat Man at the Buffet Line
» It's difficult to ignore ignorance
Posted by: skoog5600
» RE: It's difficult to ignore ignorance
Posted by: oregonox
» RE: Narcissitic pig!
Posted by: Jordonquits
» RE: Here we go again - The World is Coming to an End!!!
Posted by: abbadon2007
» RE: Here we go again - The World is Coming to an End!!!
Posted by: rocketman
» RE: Here we go again - The World is Coming to an End!!!
Posted by: particle
» RE: Here we go again - The World is Coming to an End!!!
Posted by: rocketman
» RE: Here we go again - The World is Coming to an End!!!
Posted by: particle
» RE: Here we go again - The World is Coming to an End!!!
Posted by: rocketman
» RE: Here we go again - The World is Coming to an End!!!
Posted by: particle
» RE: Here we go again - The World is Coming to an End!!!
Posted by: IPF
» RE: Here we go again - The World is Coming to an End!!!
Posted by: particle
» RE: Here we go again - The World is Coming to an End!!!
Posted by: rprax
» RE: Here we go again - The World is Coming to an End!!!
Posted by: gdsnide
» RE: Here we go again - The World is Coming to an End!!!
Posted by: dockboy
» RE: Here we go again - The World is Coming to an End!!!
Posted by: LeftCoastProgressive
» RE: Here we go again - The World is Coming to an End!!!
Posted by: maribelle
» RE: Here we go again - The World is Coming to an End!!!
Posted by: particle
» If you find my logic flawed or incorrect then
Posted by: IPF
» RE: If you find my logic flawed or incorrect then
Posted by: particle
» MSM gets it's money from owners and advertisers
Posted by: leafsong1
» RE: Here we go again - The World is Coming to an End!!!
Posted by: AMERICAN VETERAN
» RE: Here we go again - The World is Coming to an End!!!
Posted by: LeftCoastProgressive
» reich wing idiot ostriches
Posted by: BKLN
» Actually, I drive a jeep and my wife a Suzuki
Posted by: IPF
» Mid-80's in Oct. isn't exactly normal...
Posted by: truthteller
» 82°F in Youngstown, OH on Oct 5th, 1959 so it's not new
Posted by: rprax
» Alarms are going off in my head too...after reading your insane post.
Posted by: american
» RE: Here we go again - The World is Coming to an End!!!
Posted by: AsteroidMiner
» None, I need proof not some trumped up slide show
Posted by: IPF
» RE: Here we go again - The World is Coming to an End!!!
Posted by: jroth420
» RE: Here we go again - The World is Coming to an End!!!
Posted by: IPF
» IPF your ignorance is showing!
Posted by: mountainmama
» NASA's temperature records just got changed, so
Posted by: IPF
» RE: NASA's temperature records just got changed, so
Posted by: mandiwrite
» RE: Here we go again - The World is Coming to an End!!!
Posted by: AZLady
Comments are closed-
Posted by: IPF on Oct 10, 2007 12:53 AM
Current rating: 1 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
OMG a journalist said it was too late already!!!! OMG OMG OMG!!!! Like a journalist is a final authority on this stuff, ya.
Here's a report from Ohio State University where they study Polar Ice at the Byrd Polar Research Center -
Scientists here are calibrating data from NASA’s Ice, Cloud, and land Elevation Satellite (ICESat), and using the satellite to study the ice streams that carry ice from the interior of the WAIS out to sea.
Early results of the study clearly show that all the ice streams of the WAIS have changed substantially in the last five years, but each in its own way, explained Bea Csatho, research scientist at Ohio State's Byrd Polar Research Center (BPRC) and head of the calibration project.
Csatho presented those early results on December 10 in a poster session at the American Geophysical Union meeting in San Francisco.
According to the ICESat data, some WAIS ice streams are thickening and others are thinning; some are flowing faster than before, and others are slowing down.
Find it here
Basically, we still don't know what's going on - but nooooo. Gore says it's definitive. The IPCC says it's definitive.... Could it be they all want the same thing? MORE MONEY
First figure out what's really going on - then tells us about it. This is shameful.
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» RE: It's a sham and a shame - a scare tactic and nothing more
Posted by: chomsky
» RE: It's a sham and a shame - a scare tactic and nothing more
Posted by: angryyoungwoman
» Try 50Billion already spent on GW studies
Posted by: IPF
» RE: It's a sham and a shame - a scare tactic and nothing more
Posted by: tmj707
» RE: the shim sham man
Posted by: solrev
» RE: the shim sham man
Posted by: richholland
» RE: the shim sham man
Posted by: IPF
» RE: It's a sham and a shame - a scare tactic and nothing more
Posted by: mike1997
» RE: It's a sham--your source is a sham
Posted by: zorro
» Well, funding is actually up to 50Billion for GW studies
Posted by: IPF
» Oh, certainly, it's the money. We environmentalists have all gotten quite rich over this.
Posted by: Beck
» That's the worst part about it
Posted by: IPF
» Some are thickening and some are thinning
Posted by: ProgressiveManiac
» i think i know who is thick
Posted by: KaptainSpiffy
» Do you havew a point?
Posted by: leafsong1
» I do have a point? The data IS inconsisten
Posted by: IPF
» RE: Some are thickening and some are thinning
Posted by: Spot
» So are you bitching out The Ohio State Univeristy research team?
Posted by: sausage
» WHAT??!?
Posted by: IPF
» Um, have you seen the correlations?
Posted by: american
» uuuhh, correlation does not prove causation
Posted by: IPF
» I don't know, the guy's got a point...
Posted by: rprax
» RE: It's a sham and a shame - a scare tactic and nothing more
Posted by: Lector
» RE: It's a sham and a shame - a scare tactic and nothing more
Posted by: Dr. P. Mooney
» RE: It's a sham and a shame - a scare tactic and nothing more
Posted by: mountainmama
Comments are closed-
Posted by: NoPCZone on Oct 10, 2007 1:47 AM
Current rating: 4 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
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» RE: Plenty of Space
Posted by: solrev
» RE: Plenty of Space
Posted by: Scott
Comments are closed-
Posted by: richholland on Oct 10, 2007 4:38 AM
Current rating: 3 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
No matter what subject is the topic in alternet; war in IRAK, war on drugs, war on pedofiles, poor health insurance;e.you will find the same formula.
i.e..1. some people abuse human emotions to make a lot of money.
2.first step scare people, tell them about the bogeymen trying to rape your little daughter and only if you buy the CReepmans insurance policy she is safe.
3.Oh.Oh. soon you will have no oil anymore and bearded bums will bomb your city... only if you spend billions of dollars the Creepmans coorporation will send 100.000 brave guards to protect you.
in the majority of civilised industrial countries all over the world there is a choice between governmental and private health care, housing, and education.
Think how would you feel if you hadnot FEAR about health care and education or unemployment???? The majority of people donot call this Socialisme like some alternet readers!
Now to Nature;
If you only can think : the work we do, the action we take must give results for our shareholders all measurements made by ALGORE worldsavecorporation will have no results for the normal people.
Only the USA as a state is able to make laws to change things.
Look in IRAK, because the warmomgers make millions this war never ends.
So if companies are making turnover in climatechanges the world will suffer for ever.
The core is the vulture capitalisme.
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» RE: it is all about MONEY
Posted by: solrev
» RE: it is all about MONEY
Posted by: richholland
» RE: it is all about MONEY
Posted by: Shey
» WTF???
Posted by: sausage
» psst
Posted by: KaptainSpiffy
» You make no sense whatsoever.
Posted by: american
» Dude.. I heard doctors make lots of money....
Posted by: JoshuaLudd
» RE: it is all about MONEY
Posted by: MAD
» RE: it is all about MONEY
Posted by: jroth420
» RE: it is all about MONEY
Posted by: Spot
Comments are closed-
Posted by: halg on Oct 10, 2007 4:56 AM
Current rating: 3 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
I'm certain that Al Gore, the scientists, and others who are warning us about global warming and telling us we need to cut emissions by 80% just can't wait until the day eveyone is handcuffed by a lack of resources. When living in the exurbs is no longer a dream, but more of a nightmare, since there will be little or no fuel to make a daily commute. In fact, our whole way of life might just have to change altogether. This might force us to follow a whole different set of economic principles, like building stuff to last instead of wasting resources to keep consumers busy shopping in stores to buy replacements for crappy goods.
Gosh, I guess the scientific fear-mongers are all part of a geek conspiracy who might just be wrong. In which case, we will have all just wasted a lot of time when we could have been busy burning out our resources needlessly to support an economic system that primarily enriches the already wealthy, with a few scraps thrown out to the rest of us to keep us "happy."
(BTW, I am wrong about my opinion, as you will see briefly. The neocons on this list will teach me how WRONG I am, by citing a few sources who disagree with nearly every scientist on earth. It's time to do away with people who believe in all that science and community crap. They are interfering with BIG BUSINESS!!!)
I can't wait to see if the scientists are all WRONG. Of course, if they aren't, there won't be much of anything to see -- above water, anyway.
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» RE: I'm not scared
Posted by: dockboy
» RE: I'm not scared
Posted by: richholland
» RE: I'm not scared
Posted by: Spot
» RE: I'm not scared
Posted by: aonghus36
» RE: I'm not scared
Posted by: gdsnide
Comments are closed-
Posted by: williameon on Oct 10, 2007 5:44 AM
Current rating: 4 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
90 in New York in October.
70 in the Middle of January
2012 is The Magic number
Read it and Weep.
The Great Flood
The World will be shaken up
From the bottom to the top.
Till you finally cry
UNCLE!
Then the Poles will shift.
Things will change
In the Twinkling of an Eye.
And you will be still
Frozen
In front of
Your Boob Tube
Like a T.V. Dinner.
Hypnotized by
The Corporate Puppet Masters
FAUX NEWS
Telling you to
Stay where you are
While everyone is drowning!
Sound familiar?
Katrina!
911
A TRILLION DOLLARS for a Heartless WAR.
Nothing for a Sick Kid
If Socialized Medicine is good enough for
The Shrub
It's good enough for me!
Somebodies got there priorities wrong?
All the Cor'pirate' Talking Heads and
Hypocrites in our Government.
Talking out of both ends of their bodies
At the same time.
It's quite a show.
Cor-pirates talking
BU__! SH__!
24 X 7
365
FOREVER!
While robbing you blind.
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» What About New Orleans?
Posted by: sunlakedude
» New Orleans will be gone.
Posted by: williameon
» They're not fooling me...
Posted by: Cathyc
» Corpirate-AmeriKan-Christo BS!
Posted by: williameon
» Have you got the facts straight?
Posted by: rprax
» Check these facts!
Posted by: williameon
» I did, hence my dis-belief
Posted by: IPF
Comments are closed-
Posted by: sausage on Oct 10, 2007 7:09 AM
Current rating: 4 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Sure there will be losers, like New York City, Florida, the Gulf Coast, but there will be ecological winners also, Canada and Russia maybe. There will be mass extinctions, to be sure, but evolutionists know, for a fact, that extinction is the engine of evolution. Coca-Cola guzzling polar bears will no longer gambol with friendly, tap dancing penguins but new species will be evolving before our very eyes, and won't that frost the creationists' balls!
So from my perspective, we've already missed the boat on reversing global warming. There is no way to stop it if even if we all get out of our automobiles, throw away our old-fashinoned incandescent light bulbs and generate all our electricity through wind and sun. The global community should have begun taking sets to slow global warming twenty to thirty years ago, there were signs evident even then.
Don't get me wrong, I see the effects of global warming in my own little sphere of existance. Yesterday, for instance, I saw a praying mantis on my deck. In October! In Iowa! And I won't lie by saying I miss the long, bone-chilling Midwestern winters of my youth. Thanks to global warming we Iowans haven't been gouged as badly as we might be by our natural gas utility, not that they don't keep trying every winter, so there is an "upside."
Do I think, however, we should stop all efforts to switch from fossil fuels to cleaner alternative energy? No. I advocated clean energy long before I ever heard of global warming. Research and data on the health costs and environmental degradation caused by particulate matter spewed into the atomsphere from the buring of fossil fuels was well underway in the Sixites and Seventies. Of course, if the United States had not had 27 years of anti-environmentalism, beginning with the Reagan-Bush 1 misadministration in 1981, perhaps the world would not now find itself in these dire straits.
So really, all we can do, as human beings and citizens of the planet, is make the best of it, roll with the punches and try and create a better world on the ashes of this one.
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» RE: "Goodbye Big Apple" is a bad thing?
Posted by: threecolors
» Sigh, yourself
Posted by: sausage
» RE: "Goodbye Big Apple" is a bad thing?
Posted by: Krain61
» How many Phoenix will rise from the ashes...
Posted by: Cathyc
» You sort of get it
Posted by: sausage
» RE: "Goodbye Big Apple" is a bad thing?
Posted by: dayahka
Comments are closed-
Posted by: tmj707 on Oct 10, 2007 7:12 AM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
We have known about greenhouse gasses from our energy consumption since at least the 80's. This is not new technology we're talking about you fools! This is just the time that we can see the fruits of our labor...melting ice caps! And if you can't/won't go to Greenland or Alaska or Antartica or Michigan's UP or Lake Tahoe or Canada's glacier or ANYWHERE to see for yourself, USE YOUR FREAKING COMMON SENSE! The winter's are getting milder. Period. Summer is lasting longer and getting hotter. Uh, 2+2 still equals 4, no matter how much you don't want it too.
At least take some action for our children's children. Selfish. I am appalled. Do you believe this is really a war we're fighting too? Might as well jump on all Tricky Bush's bandwagons!!!!!
Signed,
Disgusted with the Sheep of America
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» We have known since the 1980's ...
Posted by: Cathyc
» even those who seem to care the most. . .
Posted by: Beck
» RE: even those who seem to care the most. . .
Posted by: Shey
» RE: What Is Wrong With You People????
Posted by: Spot
Comments are closed-
Posted by: frankly1 on Oct 10, 2007 7:41 AM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
The consequeses of our actions have been felt by all the life on earth and now it's our turn. I know christians and other cults believe their god will save them or make them a new planet to play on but I doubt it. The sociopaths that control our societies, like all sociopaths, only relate to their own ego driven greed and will do little or nothing. So, sit back in your hummer, turn up the a/c and watch your children and grandchildren suffer and die in the disaster we have all helped to bring about.
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» Not ALL of us are responsible for this mess...
Posted by: Cathyc
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Posted by: Nick on Oct 10, 2007 8:01 AM
Current rating: 1 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
will dsapear
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» RE: That's the sort of spelling and intelligence....
Posted by: boydranchitos
» RE: That's the sort of spelling and intelligence....
Posted by: halg
» mabee nic's brane alreddy dsapeerd
Posted by: Beck
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Posted by: ScottP on Oct 10, 2007 8:00 AM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
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» RE: Glacier retreat in California
Posted by: AMERICAN VETERAN
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Posted by: Nick on Oct 10, 2007 8:10 AM
Current rating: 2 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
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» RE: It looks like sucker born every second
Posted by: sausage
» RE: It looks like sucker born every second
Posted by: particle
» More power?
Posted by: Cathyc
» Duh, Dhuya, DDuhh
Posted by: american
» RE: Maybe not, but
Posted by: jackyD
» RE: Maybe not, but
Posted by: oregonox
» RE: It looks like sucker born every second
Posted by: SatanicJamboree
» RE: It looks like sucker born every second
Posted by: Shey
Comments are closed-
Posted by: Grandma Crabby on Oct 10, 2007 8:15 AM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
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» Well, there ya go... "No one with ANY BRAINS..."
Posted by: sausage
» Why do you think we got Reagan?
Posted by: Cathyc
» Don't blame me, I never voted for the guy.
Posted by: sausage
Comments are closed-
Posted by: Trixie on Oct 10, 2007 9:11 AM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Where do all the people who plan to wring the last farthing out of fossil fuel use plan to live when the jig's up -- or don't they care? Of what use will their money be, unless it's to migrate to another planet (good luck!)?
I hope all you nay-sayers out there can tread water indefinitely.
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Posted by: eosrk on Oct 10, 2007 9:11 AM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
stronger, more frequent hurricanes
stronger, more fequent tornadoes
extreme flooding
extreme drought
more above and below average temps
more deforestation worldwide
increased asthma
more cancer showing up.....IN THE USA
increased levels of CO2 and more ozone
so, if there's no global warming going on, then what's causing it. I'm asking the experts this question because they don't seem to have an clear answer either, cause when they are asked, they give vague, eskhewed statements and not the damn answer to the question, like what the GOP and most Democrats do!
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» RE: If there's no global warming, then why is this happening?
Posted by: GlobalWeather
» RE: If there's no global warming, then why is this happening?
Posted by: Shey
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Posted by: Constitutionalist75 on Oct 10, 2007 9:53 AM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
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Posted by: vangogh69 on Oct 10, 2007 10:38 AM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
We cannot hope, however, to deal with this climate change issue while hoping that the present capitalist system of commerce and trade remains...if anything, capitalism is a major cause of climate change and while I'm not saying socialism is solely the answer, we do have to consider all of the factors in addressing the problem.
Anyway, my 2 cents.
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» RE: An immediate observation
Posted by: american
» Something is MOST DEFINITELY up!
Posted by: Cathyc
Comments are closed-
Posted by: Sojourner on Oct 10, 2007 10:55 AM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Now we have moved to stage #2. Will some of the worst consequences hit us in this century or not until the next century? (If you look at the blurb at the beginning of this article, that's the journalist's subject.) How much time do the most vulnerable locations have to protect themselves? That's the remaining argument.
And, yes, the writer dramatized and exaggerated. And so do some of the comments here--even while leaning in the other direction. Denial comes in many forms. The Maldives Islands in the south Pacific are scheduled to go back below the sea at some point soon--20 years, 30 years. It will probably take that for the denyers (not to shut up because denial can be a way of life) to lose their last shred of credibility.
Everything now depends on when we get going on regaining a helpful influence on our climate. We cannot reverse what we have done. We can correct its worst results.
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» We can only correct SOME of the damage we've done...
Posted by: Cathyc
» Freud agrees. He called it the "death instinct"; thanatos
Posted by: Sojourner
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Posted by: jeffrey7 on Oct 10, 2007 10:56 AM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
When I was a boy,back before there was such a thing as the EPA, The damage to the environment had critters dying off,ecosystems failing at a regular pace and rivers setting themselves on fire. Token laws were passed and there was a lot of grandstanding and then there was Love Canal.Drinking water fron thousands fowled by indusrty forcing many to leave their properties.Laying waste to the American Dream.
Industry responded with the home water purifying system.
As our emissions improved we warned the Congress they had twenty years,maybe less, to get their act together before an irreversable greenhouse effect would be created. Industry's
response? SP45 sun blocker and cheap air conditioners. The creation of a million new products that need eletricity to work and have a constant power draw when they are supposed to be turned off. Industry knows it's altering the weather patterns,sea levels and air quality for every living thing.
The pisser is....they knew it generations ago and engineered for it so they could be first at the profit line when the changes start happening. So we,the people, have been sold out,yet again, by the Government for the benefit of the Wealthy. They
know climate change is here and can't be stopped. But they also have plenty of supplys for the picking and choosing. With lovely water front condos and gondolas and of course water purifyers and air cleaners.
Think Outside the System
Jeffrey7
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» Think outside the System?
Posted by: Cathyc
» That's Naomi Klein's "Crisis Capitalism" in a nutshell.
Posted by: Sojourner
» RE: Not to be the Bearer of bad news........
Posted by: Shey
Comments are closed-
Posted by: Democritus on Oct 10, 2007 11:06 AM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Consider this from a report sponsored by the right-wing John Locke Foundation and written by Joseph Schwartz in July 2007: "The restrictions they [environmentalists] seek to force on the world would require us to relinquish the energy consumption that undergirds the extraordinary prosperity, health, and comfort of life in the U.S., the nations of Europe, and other wealthy countries. At the same time, those restrictions would prevent individuals in the world's poorest nations from aspiring to the rich world's quality of life, consigning them instead to continued poverty an hardship."
Now, doesn't that sound like one rich person telling other rich people not to give up their creature comforts just to save something meaningless like the environment? And doesn't it also tell poor people that if they want some trickle-down effects from the very rich, they ought to sacrifice their environment as well? Why don't we call them what they are: "selfish bastards." They pay off researchers to gather evidence for the view that will keep the wealth flowing into their coffers. If that means that the environment suffers, so be it. They don't want to pay more taxes to clean up what they've damaged, and they want their fossil-fuel gravy train to keep on running. After all, what's the destruction of the environment compared to a good magnum of Dom Perignon.
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» RE: Follow the money
Posted by: Krain61
Comments are closed-
Posted by: jueledwards on Oct 10, 2007 11:09 AM
Current rating: 1 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
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» Got any links to maps where there was no Antarctic ice cap?
Posted by: american
» RE: Got any links to maps where there was no Antarctic ice cap?
Posted by: famouspipeliner
» here is a link for that 'information' on antartic free of ice
Posted by: KaptainSpiffy
» RE: Let Nature do its thing
Posted by: leafsong1
» Nature? We've already destroyed Nature!
Posted by: Cathyc
» RE: Let Nature do its thing
Posted by: Shey
Comments are closed-
Posted by: willymack on Oct 10, 2007 11:36 AM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
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» RE: Fear mongers & nut cases
Posted by: bcgirl125
» There's a difference between GRADUAL global warming and RAPID GW...
Posted by: Cathyc
» RE: Fear mongers & nut cases
Posted by: particle
» RE: Fear mongers & nut cases
Posted by: bcgirl125
» RE: Fear mongers & nut cases
Posted by: particle
» RE: Fear mongers & nut cases
Posted by: bcgirl125
Comments are closed-
Posted by: writerman on Oct 10, 2007 12:37 PM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
This is a recipe for longterm disaster. We seem to be turning our backs on over two centuries of progress and science and rationality; and turning towards superstition again. Bye, bye, the enlightenment and hello a new dark age mentality. At the rate we're going we'll end up sacrificing witches to appease the weather gods and reverse global warming!
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» RE: They Burn Witches, Don't They?
Posted by: mcstewey
Comments are closed-
Posted by: Krain61 on Oct 10, 2007 1:09 PM
Current rating: 4 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
But think about! We have pumped billions if not trillions of gallons
of oil from the ground and most has created heat. Where did all that heat go?
Yes some places do get snow but if it's not staying like it has in past years
how can we think were not part of it! And it's not slowing but increasing!
I guess we could fill them oil well with sea water to get rid of some of it.
It really amazes me how some posters say "let stick to the facts"
OK we can but who was alive back when it melted last time?
That's like these so called experts saying they know how the twin towers
would fall as if they already knocked building down that size.
With the enviroment we can not wait for fact because they will only be fact
after the fact. And the poster who said about seeing trees in museums.
Look at all the trees we cut down and take into consideration also the trees
lost to wild fires and then add to that whats used in papper mills and cut down
to build houses in there place or roads or whatever.
This is a fact! We can not have a economy that forever goes on!
Maybe we can devert some of the rising waters to places like the grand cannon
or death vally or even other places but we still have to face the heat.
We are making the earth heat up faster by roads and buildings.
Progress is good but at the cost of our own exstintion!
The people here who think only of there self are the ones who think it's just
a natrual cycle and it won't happen in there life time.
But what about the future generations? They deserve a world that can sustain
people. The hotter it get's the more energy will be used for food and cooling
our homes. being one of the biggest pigs on the planet should mean we should
lead the pack on fixing the problem.
No I guess sticking our heads in the sand will do just fine!
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Posted by: juanpecan81 on Oct 10, 2007 1:15 PM
Current rating: 4 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
The way I feel lately, let it get washed away. The people coming here are the same ones that shrug with indifference at every social event except the opening/closing of a starbucks. All these suburbanites trying to export the suburban mall experience to the city, cars and all, let em swim.
I speak in annoyance, of course this is a major problem. We need to match a sense of alarm with a sense of hope and can-do (one without the other leads to postmodern blah paralysis). All of human history is a record of the impossible made common place, for good and bad. So what first?
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Posted by: BlackbirdHighway on Oct 10, 2007 1:56 PM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
It's not all good though, the reason they stopped shrinking is that they are gone, disappeared, completely melted away.
But just watch Lomborg and friends will still use this as "evidence" that global warming isn't so bad after all. That's just the way they distort the facts, so be aware, and beware!
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Posted by: Iconoclast421 on Oct 10, 2007 2:19 PM
Current rating: 1 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
The vast majority of the earths salt (along with the water) comes right out of the deep ocean vents.
Why is this important? Well you have to combine it with a few more facts. Like the fact that the off-shelf ocean floor has never been measured to be more than 200 million years old. Which means all the massive amounts of water on the earth, the vast majority of it, is fairly new, fairly recent. If you average out this expansion, it comes out to about a trillion gallons a year. That is a trillion gallons a year of new water being produced by the earth. (Along with many billions of tons of salt.) All pouring out from deep ocean fissures in gaseous form. But the earth itself is also expanding, so the land/sea ratio balances out.
The point is that with all these billions of gallons of new water arriving every day, it renders moot any effect of melting land based ice. (Sea based ice reduces sea levels when it melts.) And to top it all off, land based ice isnt melting.
The melting of mountain icecaps are however a genuine concern, and millions will suffer unimaginably when that "valve" gets shut off. But as for New York drowning? Dont count on that.
If you do the research and think with both sides of your brain, you will reach the same conclusions. The earth is growing. And mainstream science is missing some very key pieces of information necessary to make logical conclusions. It is sad and yet laughable at the same time. But it is deadly serious when bad science influences policy.
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» Please be quiet.
Posted by: LeaderofMen
» bring your facts to the table
Posted by: Iconoclast421
» RE: bring your facts to the table
Posted by: non-onymous
» RE: bring your facts to the table
Posted by: Iconoclast421
» RE: bring your facts to the table
Posted by: LeaderofMen
» RE: bring your facts to the table
Posted by: non-onymous
» Actually, this is the cool 'expanding earth' theory
Posted by: anw
» RE: Actually, this is the cool 'expanding earth' theory
Posted by: Iconoclast421
» RE: Both "Sides" of the Global Warming Debate are Wrong
Posted by: particle
» RE: Both "Sides" of the Global Warming Debate are Wrong
Posted by: Iconoclast421
» Crank Alert... or is it?
Posted by: particle
» RE: Crank Alert... or is it?
Posted by: Iconoclast421
» RE: Crank Alert... or is it?
Posted by: particle
» Fantasy nm
Posted by: Bbear41
Comments are closed-
Posted by: Cathyc on Oct 10, 2007 3:06 PM
Current rating: 1 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
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» And I always wish. . .
Posted by: Beck
» Avoiding responsibility is childish--to which there's no other answer than, grow up.
Posted by: Sojourner
Comments are closed-
Posted by: LeaderofMen on Oct 10, 2007 3:44 PM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Once those companies find important things like diamonds, gold and other minerals NO ONE will care at all about global warming.
In addition, every shipping company on the planet is waiting, with sweat beading on their brows, for that all important Northwest Passage to be permanently opened. Once it opens NO ONE will care about global warming.
The planet is NOT in our hands. The planet is in the hands of extremely powerful corporations that are in business to extract raw materials to generate wealth. The more people we have on the planet, the more that wealth is required to sustain the population.
Global warming is NOT going to go away. Coastlines WILL change. Mega-corps and the politicians they have purchased will FACILITATE the changes that are coming. There is far too much money to be made with the coming changes. Anyone who thinks that we have an 'opportunity' to change that is dreaming. Trillions and trillions of dollars are about to be made. There are extremely powerful people ready to make those trillions. It will not be stopped by any nation, group of nations or even a billion good-willed environmentalists. They are simply not powerful enough to thwart the will of industrialists who are already in the Halls of Power.
And, once more land is exposed in Antartica there will be a land grab there, too. Treaties be damned. After all, we're seeing the ramp up of the militarization of the Arctic as we speak.
It's all different now. Nothing will stop the changes. We haven't the will. All that will change is who will own the new world once the globe changes.
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» "Eat, drink, and be merry, for tomorrow we die"?
Posted by: Sojourner
» RE: "Eat, drink, and be merry, for tomorrow we die"?
Posted by: MAD
» Trillions of $$$...
Posted by: Cathyc
» RE: Trillions of $$$...
Posted by: MAD
» I wonder...
Posted by: Bbear41
Comments are closed-
Posted by: Glennk1949 on Oct 10, 2007 3:46 PM
Current rating: Not yet rated [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
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» Five blocks is too close!
Posted by: williameon
» 200 feet rise in his lifetime? Yes, you are a bunch of idiots
Posted by: chief of okeefe
Comments are closed-
Posted by: Gravitas on Oct 10, 2007 4:59 PM
Current rating: Not yet rated [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
"Weight obsession is a social disease. If we cared more about CO2 than BMI there MIGHT still be time."
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Posted by: dayahka on Oct 10, 2007 8:06 PM
Current rating: 1 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Whether or not CO2 or human actions are the cause of climate change is one issue that is, contrary of what some think, so far unsettled. The other issue is what to do about climate change: try to push back the forces of change or adapt?
Some people seem to think that Greenland must remain icy, New York must remain as and where it is, Florida must remain above water (else where will hurricanes land or retirees retire?), the small Pacific islands must remain habitable. This is all total nonsense. Climate changes. Get used to it. As things change, we will adapt, cities will be moved, habitations will be moved, farming will be moved, and we'll get on with life until the next major changes in climate, which may be warming or cooling.
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» To pitiful for words. N/T
Posted by: particle
» RE: We do not live on a static planet
Posted by: Shey
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Posted by: macdon1 on Oct 10, 2007 8:36 PM
Current rating: 4 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
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» Our climate is broken,
Posted by: Ellie1
» RE: The Garden is a Mess
Posted by: weatherking
Comments are closed-
Posted by: Morphizm on Oct 10, 2007 8:39 PM
Current rating: 4 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
I wrote about Brown's article today for the MorphBlog and Huffington Post, and found the same thing when I ventured to its comment section. Vociferous criticism, well-intentioned defense.
I'd like to think it's a complete coincidence, or healthy give-and-take, but I know the energy sector and its adherents a bit too well for that. Enviro articles have been infested by their trolls at a rate that is only matched by global warming itself. Don't waste your time arguing science and reason with them. They're not here for that. They're here to cause doubt for the fence-sitters and cash a paycheck. Ignore them. They won't go away, but ignore them anyway. That's my four cents.
However, Brown's thesis, and the science behind it, is too powerful to ignore.
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» RE: Ignore the Trolls
Posted by: Morphizm
» RE: Ignore the Trolls
Posted by: Shey
Comments are closed-
Posted by: drfun on Oct 10, 2007 10:37 PM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
People must give up their multi-thousand square foot homes, and the A/C-heating machines provide climate control for them. Those double wide refrigerators suck up a lot of wattage, along with all the kitchen gadgets with motors too.
Think of all the big screen/ high def TV's, or least to forget the multi wattage home entertainment stereo equipment most homes in the U.S. contain. The MP3-4, i-pods laptops, PC's that provide the means of communication all require that plug and wall socket supply of energy 24/7.
The electric blankets, massage chairs, whirlpool jacuzzi tubs, steamers and other commodities which consume electricity in the bedroom/bathroom are real energy suckers.
Most garages in the U.S. have more tools in them than a third world city, and to fill up an SUV once takes more energy to produce the fuel, than all the food to feed one person in the developing world for a year.
Just remember that all the developing countries have billions of people who are demanding these same things.
Alas, I resign to possess what few electrical devices I own, resort to riding a bike than driving a car, or use public transport to get to more distant destinations. I use a internet-bar computer and don't own a cell phone.
How is my life, pretty basic, but at least I'm living my environmental philosophy rather than just espousing shallow rhetoric.
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» That may help your concience but will not affect the climate
Posted by: chief of okeefe
Comments are closed-
Posted by: dancerkc on Oct 10, 2007 11:36 PM
Current rating: 3 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
So yes, there is a build up but it is warmer and wetter snow which also melts faster. Further, because it is warmer and warmer each year at some point it can't make it as snow of any kind, turning into sleet and at some point turning into just plain rain.
Normally, these are COLD deserts - less than 10-inches of precipitation in any year. The air is too cold to hold enough moisture to cause enough snow to accumulate quickly. It is also too cold to evaporate so the snow builds up in very thin layers over the thousands of years. It is very SLOW to build any depth when the climate is so cold.
Maybe you ought to take a few science courses instead of your ignorant ID crap. You mistake is thinking that cold=snow and snow=cold. That isn't the mechanism. The quantity of precipitation is directly affected by the amount of water in the air and that depends on the temperature. The colder the air the less moisture it can hold. The warmer the air the more it holds until it gets into just plain hot - and then we have HOT deserts.
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» Right Wing Stupid - Warming causes MORE snow
Posted by: Spot
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Posted by: zbob on Oct 11, 2007 5:15 AM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
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» RE: Tough couple of months for the deniers
Posted by: ConnecttheDots
» Deny what?
Posted by: chief of okeefe
Comments are closed-
Posted by: williameon on Oct 11, 2007 7:16 AM
Current rating: Not yet rated [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
There will be a world wide flood.
We are at a pivotal time in History.
The Cor-‘pirate’ Empire has outlived its usefulness.
It’s a sham.
It must be dismantled
It will take a fight.
But, we must take back our Democracy and everything else they have stolen.
Before it's too late!
They have abused their power before and will again.
Millions of innocent lives have been lost at what a cost!
Unless we stop them now.
We need a complete decentralization of The Corporate System.
Local manufacturing, energy and food production are important parts of this change.
Invest in yourselves, your neighborhoods, energy independence and food production.
While they are robbing everybody blind do you think they're worrying about you?
Forget the Shlock Market.
Invest in yourself.
Spend your Dollars while they are still worth something!
The End of the Oil age is upon us.
We must cast off it's yoke of oppression.
When Dick The Heartless Ch-‘ainey’ dies?
So will it!
Who owns the World?
A few ruthless criminals that have taken control and privatized everything for their own benefit?
Or
Everyone else?
Fundamental to the re-
Democratization of America is a Free Vital Local Media,
Exempt from Corporate and Government control.
The Media Conglomerates will be broken up.
Local news and media production is an important part of Democratic life.
It’s a safety issue.
The power of the media must be returned to the people.
For the safety and benefit of everyone.
Billionaires-R-Us must relinquish their stranglehold on public discourse.
They have abused their power by limiting viewpoints and information.
Ever far worst they have openly used well know repetitive Hypnotic Techniques to
Brainwash the Citizenry.
They are also poisoning the people by adding dangerous nutrient less poisonous chemicals to the food supply.
Diabetes epidemic anyone?
The Dark Army must be disbanded.
While all of our local Militia is off fighting a phony War,
Who is protecting us here?
We are in deep Doo Doo!
The Change is upon us.
Will we take Destiny into our own hands?
and change it for the better?
Or
Will we bow down to Corpirate Control?
Even the Iraqis are fighting for their country.
What are we doing here?
Free ourselves again and lead by example.
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Posted by: PaulK on Oct 11, 2007 6:46 PM
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Posted by: january37 on Oct 12, 2007 3:48 PM
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Posted by: GlobalWeather on Oct 13, 2007 3:15 PM
Current rating: 1 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Also, it is fairly common knowledge among researchers that as temperatures warm during these cycles, Arctic and Antarctic ice melts and releases carbon dioxide into the atmosphere. During a 200-year natural cycle the temperatures begin warming first, ice begins melting, water vapor (the most important greenhouse gas) increases and absorbs carbon dioxide naturally being released by the air bubbles trapped in melting ice.
Global Weather Oscillations has extensively researched these natural global warming cycles and will be releasing information on the real cause of these natural cycles (late November to December). The release will also show that global warming will be "ending" around the year 2010.
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Posted by: gdsnide on Oct 14, 2007 5:57 AM
Current rating: 2 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Someone who has never been able to have anyone listen to him/her can come on here & be ann expert or some gifted
sort of person who knows it all.
As for global warming?
Big deal.
If it's warming it's warming.
If it's not it's not.
But, what I likw a large percentahe KNOW DEFINATLY how
to correct it.
My thought is we make giant Air Condtioners & run them all the time so we can cool the climate back down.
As good an idea as I have read on here so far.
Make cars that emit less pollution is ridicilous.
If we have already wrecked the climate what good is slowing down the amount of pollutiom going to do.
Hey, now I'm a Genius as I have come up with a fool proof plan to correct the situation.
But, I still want to here more ideas ( Even though I solved problem but I didn't invent the Internet ha) as every one is more interesting than the other.
OK, one more idea. About 3 times a day take all the ice out of the refrigrator & dump it in the Ocean,Creeks & lakes.
Now if anyone disagrees let me know & I'll convince U why my theories are fool proof. ha Or maybe I may have some new plans
Typical Internet User
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Posted by: Candleinheart on Oct 14, 2007 6:45 AM
Current rating: 1 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Rolling Thundar then and Natives now speak of a great cleansing that has begun. Mother Earth is sick and will repel that which makes her sick.US. A virus enters your body. your body fights to repel it. To cleanse you of the invading virus. well, this is happening now. They have in their visions, as other visionaries, very difficult times ahead and natural disasters.
Leo Tolstoy the writer, and many others including a wealthy executive, gave up their wealth, mansions, lands, three Mercedes, etc.etc. to live humble, simple lives. They found peace, happiness, and their 'God." Rolling Thundar repeatedly stated, "It is a good life here." (on the reservation.) It was. A peace, a unity, a looking out for one another, a sweetness in the men, wholesome food grown and served at every meal.
A Native American came to a series of lectures I had sponsered. He stated powerfully, clearly. His granchildren will never live their full life expectancy. A documentary stated in 25 years Life on this planet will be unsustainable. When Natives held their meetings in their Kivas their decisions were based on this fact alone, "Will this dicesion be a good thing for our people seven generations from now?" We have people running the world whose vision is from eye to wallet. Chose wisely who you vote for. It is crucial. Get rid of credit cards. Live on your income only. Cherish Life not 'things.' Get into Nature. Buy local produce. Read labels. Reject foods with added 'crap'. Love this planet and your neighbors and most of all, love yourself. So much each of us can do. It's up to us. Not the Politicians.
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Posted by: chief of okeefe on Oct 14, 2007 5:29 PM
Current rating: 2 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
The real inconvenient truth
This site posits that a human-caused CO2 increase (which is not contested) will cause some limited warming, but almost all we have seen is all we will get. In technical terms, the law of diminishing returns.
The alarmists are welcome to reply to my post with a link to a site which provides a scientific rebuttal. I do not expect a scientific rebuttal, only hysterical noise.
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» RE: Time for a debate about "runaway" global warming theories
Posted by: mandiwrite
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Posted by: weatherking on Oct 16, 2007 9:34 PM
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Posted by: IPF on Oct 10, 2007 12:36 AM
Current rating: 1 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
There is ample proof the Greenland ice is growing thicker inland due to higher rates of snowfall - GOOGLE it. Same for Antarctica. No need to go out and buy a boat, but perhaps a warmer jacket, since we will start cooling here pretty soon.
I mean we had snow - twice - in September, and this is the Southwest. (Alarms going off)
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» RE: Here we go again - The World is Coming to an End!!!
Posted by: chomsky
» RE: Here we go again - The World is Coming to an End!!!
Posted by: chomsky
» RE: Here we go again - The World is Coming to an End!!!
Posted by: IPF
» pfft! pulling up the covers works only against monsters under your bed
Posted by: KaptainSpiffy
» methane from outgassing from warming oceans. have you been paying attention?
Posted by: KaptainSpiffy
» RE: Here we go again - The World is Coming to an End!!!
Posted by: rocketman
» RE: Here we go again - The World is Coming to an End!!!
Posted by: Fat Man at the Buffet Line
» RE: Here we go again - The World is Coming to an End!!!
Posted by: particle
» RE: Here we go again - The World is Coming to an End!!!
Posted by: Fat Man at the Buffet Line
» RE: Here we go again - The World is Coming to an End!!!
Posted by: particle
» Narcissitic pig!
Posted by: skoog5600
» RE: Narcissitic pig!
Posted by: Fat Man at the Buffet Line
» It's difficult to ignore ignorance
Posted by: skoog5600
» RE: It's difficult to ignore ignorance
Posted by: oregonox
» RE: Narcissitic pig!
Posted by: Jordonquits
» RE: Here we go again - The World is Coming to an End!!!
Posted by: abbadon2007
» RE: Here we go again - The World is Coming to an End!!!
Posted by: rocketman
» RE: Here we go again - The World is Coming to an End!!!
Posted by: particle
» RE: Here we go again - The World is Coming to an End!!!
Posted by: rocketman
» RE: Here we go again - The World is Coming to an End!!!
Posted by: particle
» RE: Here we go again - The World is Coming to an End!!!
Posted by: rocketman
» RE: Here we go again - The World is Coming to an End!!!
Posted by: particle
» RE: Here we go again - The World is Coming to an End!!!
Posted by: IPF
» RE: Here we go again - The World is Coming to an End!!!
Posted by: particle
» RE: Here we go again - The World is Coming to an End!!!
Posted by: rprax
» RE: Here we go again - The World is Coming to an End!!!
Posted by: gdsnide
» RE: Here we go again - The World is Coming to an End!!!
Posted by: dockboy
» RE: Here we go again - The World is Coming to an End!!!
Posted by: LeftCoastProgressive
» RE: Here we go again - The World is Coming to an End!!!
Posted by: maribelle
» RE: Here we go again - The World is Coming to an End!!!
Posted by: particle
» If you find my logic flawed or incorrect then
Posted by: IPF
» RE: If you find my logic flawed or incorrect then
Posted by: particle
» MSM gets it's money from owners and advertisers
Posted by: leafsong1
» RE: Here we go again - The World is Coming to an End!!!
Posted by: AMERICAN VETERAN
» RE: Here we go again - The World is Coming to an End!!!
Posted by: LeftCoastProgressive
» reich wing idiot ostriches
Posted by: BKLN
» Actually, I drive a jeep and my wife a Suzuki
Posted by: IPF
» Mid-80's in Oct. isn't exactly normal...
Posted by: truthteller
» 82°F in Youngstown, OH on Oct 5th, 1959 so it's not new
Posted by: rprax
» Alarms are going off in my head too...after reading your insane post.
Posted by: american
» RE: Here we go again - The World is Coming to an End!!!
Posted by: AsteroidMiner
» None, I need proof not some trumped up slide show
Posted by: IPF
» RE: Here we go again - The World is Coming to an End!!!
Posted by: jroth420
» RE: Here we go again - The World is Coming to an End!!!
Posted by: IPF
» IPF your ignorance is showing!
Posted by: mountainmama
» NASA's temperature records just got changed, so
Posted by: IPF
» RE: NASA's temperature records just got changed, so
Posted by: mandiwrite
» RE: Here we go again - The World is Coming to an End!!!
Posted by: AZLady
Comments are closed-
Posted by: IPF on Oct 10, 2007 12:53 AM
Current rating: 1 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
OMG a journalist said it was too late already!!!! OMG OMG OMG!!!! Like a journalist is a final authority on this stuff, ya.
Here's a report from Ohio State University where they study Polar Ice at the Byrd Polar Research Center -
Scientists here are calibrating data from NASA’s Ice, Cloud, and land Elevation Satellite (ICESat), and using the satellite to study the ice streams that carry ice from the interior of the WAIS out to sea.
Early results of the study clearly show that all the ice streams of the WAIS have changed substantially in the last five years, but each in its own way, explained Bea Csatho, research scientist at Ohio State's Byrd Polar Research Center (BPRC) and head of the calibration project.
Csatho presented those early results on December 10 in a poster session at the American Geophysical Union meeting in San Francisco.
According to the ICESat data, some WAIS ice streams are thickening and others are thinning; some are flowing faster than before, and others are slowing down.
Find it here
Basically, we still don't know what's going on - but nooooo. Gore says it's definitive. The IPCC says it's definitive.... Could it be they all want the same thing? MORE MONEY
First figure out what's really going on - then tells us about it. This is shameful.
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» RE: It's a sham and a shame - a scare tactic and nothing more
Posted by: chomsky
» RE: It's a sham and a shame - a scare tactic and nothing more
Posted by: angryyoungwoman
» Try 50Billion already spent on GW studies
Posted by: IPF
» RE: It's a sham and a shame - a scare tactic and nothing more
Posted by: tmj707
» RE: the shim sham man
Posted by: solrev
» RE: the shim sham man
Posted by: richholland
» RE: the shim sham man
Posted by: IPF
» RE: It's a sham and a shame - a scare tactic and nothing more
Posted by: mike1997
» RE: It's a sham--your source is a sham
Posted by: zorro
» Well, funding is actually up to 50Billion for GW studies
Posted by: IPF
» Oh, certainly, it's the money. We environmentalists have all gotten quite rich over this.
Posted by: Beck
» That's the worst part about it
Posted by: IPF
» Some are thickening and some are thinning
Posted by: ProgressiveManiac
» i think i know who is thick
Posted by: KaptainSpiffy
» Do you havew a point?
Posted by: leafsong1
» I do have a point? The data IS inconsisten
Posted by: IPF
» RE: Some are thickening and some are thinning
Posted by: Spot
» So are you bitching out The Ohio State Univeristy research team?
Posted by: sausage
» WHAT??!?
Posted by: IPF
» Um, have you seen the correlations?
Posted by: american
» uuuhh, correlation does not prove causation
Posted by: IPF
» I don't know, the guy's got a point...
Posted by: rprax
» RE: It's a sham and a shame - a scare tactic and nothing more
Posted by: Lector
» RE: It's a sham and a shame - a scare tactic and nothing more
Posted by: Dr. P. Mooney
» RE: It's a sham and a shame - a scare tactic and nothing more
Posted by: mountainmama
Comments are closed-
Posted by: NoPCZone on Oct 10, 2007 1:47 AM
Current rating: 4 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
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» RE: Plenty of Space
Posted by: solrev
» RE: Plenty of Space
Posted by: Scott
Comments are closed-
Posted by: richholland on Oct 10, 2007 4:38 AM
Current rating: 3 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
No matter what subject is the topic in alternet; war in IRAK, war on drugs, war on pedofiles, poor health insurance;e.you will find the same formula.
i.e..1. some people abuse human emotions to make a lot of money.
2.first step scare people, tell them about the bogeymen trying to rape your little daughter and only if you buy the CReepmans insurance policy she is safe.
3.Oh.Oh. soon you will have no oil anymore and bearded bums will bomb your city... only if you spend billions of dollars the Creepmans coorporation will send 100.000 brave guards to protect you.
in the majority of civilised industrial countries all over the world there is a choice between governmental and private health care, housing, and education.
Think how would you feel if you hadnot FEAR about health care and education or unemployment???? The majority of people donot call this Socialisme like some alternet readers!
Now to Nature;
If you only can think : the work we do, the action we take must give results for our shareholders all measurements made by ALGORE worldsavecorporation will have no results for the normal people.
Only the USA as a state is able to make laws to change things.
Look in IRAK, because the warmomgers make millions this war never ends.
So if companies are making turnover in climatechanges the world will suffer for ever.
The core is the vulture capitalisme.
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» RE: it is all about MONEY
Posted by: solrev
» RE: it is all about MONEY
Posted by: richholland
» RE: it is all about MONEY
Posted by: Shey
» WTF???
Posted by: sausage
» psst
Posted by: KaptainSpiffy
» You make no sense whatsoever.
Posted by: american
» Dude.. I heard doctors make lots of money....
Posted by: JoshuaLudd
» RE: it is all about MONEY
Posted by: MAD
» RE: it is all about MONEY
Posted by: jroth420
» RE: it is all about MONEY
Posted by: Spot
Comments are closed-
Posted by: halg on Oct 10, 2007 4:56 AM
Current rating: 3 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
I'm certain that Al Gore, the scientists, and others who are warning us about global warming and telling us we need to cut emissions by 80% just can't wait until the day eveyone is handcuffed by a lack of resources. When living in the exurbs is no longer a dream, but more of a nightmare, since there will be little or no fuel to make a daily commute. In fact, our whole way of life might just have to change altogether. This might force us to follow a whole different set of economic principles, like building stuff to last instead of wasting resources to keep consumers busy shopping in stores to buy replacements for crappy goods.
Gosh, I guess the scientific fear-mongers are all part of a geek conspiracy who might just be wrong. In which case, we will have all just wasted a lot of time when we could have been busy burning out our resources needlessly to support an economic system that primarily enriches the already wealthy, with a few scraps thrown out to the rest of us to keep us "happy."
(BTW, I am wrong about my opinion, as you will see briefly. The neocons on this list will teach me how WRONG I am, by citing a few sources who disagree with nearly every scientist on earth. It's time to do away with people who believe in all that science and community crap. They are interfering with BIG BUSINESS!!!)
I can't wait to see if the scientists are all WRONG. Of course, if they aren't, there won't be much of anything to see -- above water, anyway.
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» RE: I'm not scared
Posted by: dockboy
» RE: I'm not scared
Posted by: richholland
» RE: I'm not scared
Posted by: Spot
» RE: I'm not scared
Posted by: aonghus36
» RE: I'm not scared
Posted by: gdsnide
Comments are closed-
Posted by: williameon on Oct 10, 2007 5:44 AM
Current rating: 4 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
90 in New York in October.
70 in the Middle of January
2012 is The Magic number
Read it and Weep.
The Great Flood
The World will be shaken up
From the bottom to the top.
Till you finally cry
UNCLE!
Then the Poles will shift.
Things will change
In the Twinkling of an Eye.
And you will be still
Frozen
In front of
Your Boob Tube
Like a T.V. Dinner.
Hypnotized by
The Corporate Puppet Masters
FAUX NEWS
Telling you to
Stay where you are
While everyone is drowning!
Sound familiar?
Katrina!
911
A TRILLION DOLLARS for a Heartless WAR.
Nothing for a Sick Kid
If Socialized Medicine is good enough for
The Shrub
It's good enough for me!
Somebodies got there priorities wrong?
All the Cor'pirate' Talking Heads and
Hypocrites in our Government.
Talking out of both ends of their bodies
At the same time.
It's quite a show.
Cor-pirates talking
BU__! SH__!
24 X 7
365
FOREVER!
While robbing you blind.
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» What About New Orleans?
Posted by: sunlakedude
» New Orleans will be gone.
Posted by: williameon
» They're not fooling me...
Posted by: Cathyc
» Corpirate-AmeriKan-Christo BS!
Posted by: williameon
» Have you got the facts straight?
Posted by: rprax
» Check these facts!
Posted by: williameon
» I did, hence my dis-belief
Posted by: IPF
Comments are closed-
Posted by: sausage on Oct 10, 2007 7:09 AM
Current rating: 4 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Sure there will be losers, like New York City, Florida, the Gulf Coast, but there will be ecological winners also, Canada and Russia maybe. There will be mass extinctions, to be sure, but evolutionists know, for a fact, that extinction is the engine of evolution. Coca-Cola guzzling polar bears will no longer gambol with friendly, tap dancing penguins but new species will be evolving before our very eyes, and won't that frost the creationists' balls!
So from my perspective, we've already missed the boat on reversing global warming. There is no way to stop it if even if we all get out of our automobiles, throw away our old-fashinoned incandescent light bulbs and generate all our electricity through wind and sun. The global community should have begun taking sets to slow global warming twenty to thirty years ago, there were signs evident even then.
Don't get me wrong, I see the effects of global warming in my own little sphere of existance. Yesterday, for instance, I saw a praying mantis on my deck. In October! In Iowa! And I won't lie by saying I miss the long, bone-chilling Midwestern winters of my youth. Thanks to global warming we Iowans haven't been gouged as badly as we might be by our natural gas utility, not that they don't keep trying every winter, so there is an "upside."
Do I think, however, we should stop all efforts to switch from fossil fuels to cleaner alternative energy? No. I advocated clean energy long before I ever heard of global warming. Research and data on the health costs and environmental degradation caused by particulate matter spewed into the atomsphere from the buring of fossil fuels was well underway in the Sixites and Seventies. Of course, if the United States had not had 27 years of anti-environmentalism, beginning with the Reagan-Bush 1 misadministration in 1981, perhaps the world would not now find itself in these dire straits.
So really, all we can do, as human beings and citizens of the planet, is make the best of it, roll with the punches and try and create a better world on the ashes of this one.
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» RE: "Goodbye Big Apple" is a bad thing?
Posted by: threecolors
» Sigh, yourself
Posted by: sausage
» RE: "Goodbye Big Apple" is a bad thing?
Posted by: Krain61
» How many Phoenix will rise from the ashes...
Posted by: Cathyc
» You sort of get it
Posted by: sausage
» RE: "Goodbye Big Apple" is a bad thing?
Posted by: dayahka
Comments are closed-
Posted by: tmj707 on Oct 10, 2007 7:12 AM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
We have known about greenhouse gasses from our energy consumption since at least the 80's. This is not new technology we're talking about you fools! This is just the time that we can see the fruits of our labor...melting ice caps! And if you can't/won't go to Greenland or Alaska or Antartica or Michigan's UP or Lake Tahoe or Canada's glacier or ANYWHERE to see for yourself, USE YOUR FREAKING COMMON SENSE! The winter's are getting milder. Period. Summer is lasting longer and getting hotter. Uh, 2+2 still equals 4, no matter how much you don't want it too.
At least take some action for our children's children. Selfish. I am appalled. Do you believe this is really a war we're fighting too? Might as well jump on all Tricky Bush's bandwagons!!!!!
Signed,
Disgusted with the Sheep of America
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» We have known since the 1980's ...
Posted by: Cathyc
» even those who seem to care the most. . .
Posted by: Beck
» RE: even those who seem to care the most. . .
Posted by: Shey
» RE: What Is Wrong With You People????
Posted by: Spot
Comments are closed-
Posted by: frankly1 on Oct 10, 2007 7:41 AM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
The consequeses of our actions have been felt by all the life on earth and now it's our turn. I know christians and other cults believe their god will save them or make them a new planet to play on but I doubt it. The sociopaths that control our societies, like all sociopaths, only relate to their own ego driven greed and will do little or nothing. So, sit back in your hummer, turn up the a/c and watch your children and grandchildren suffer and die in the disaster we have all helped to bring about.
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» Not ALL of us are responsible for this mess...
Posted by: Cathyc
Comments are closed-
Posted by: Nick on Oct 10, 2007 8:01 AM
Current rating: 1 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
will dsapear
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» RE: That's the sort of spelling and intelligence....
Posted by: boydranchitos
» RE: That's the sort of spelling and intelligence....
Posted by: halg
» mabee nic's brane alreddy dsapeerd
Posted by: Beck
Comments are closed-
Posted by: ScottP on Oct 10, 2007 8:00 AM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
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» RE: Glacier retreat in California
Posted by: AMERICAN VETERAN
Comments are closed-
Posted by: Nick on Oct 10, 2007 8:10 AM
Current rating: 2 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
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» RE: It looks like sucker born every second
Posted by: sausage
» RE: It looks like sucker born every second
Posted by: particle
» More power?
Posted by: Cathyc
» Duh, Dhuya, DDuhh
Posted by: american
» RE: Maybe not, but
Posted by: jackyD
» RE: Maybe not, but
Posted by: oregonox
» RE: It looks like sucker born every second
Posted by: SatanicJamboree
» RE: It looks like sucker born every second
Posted by: Shey
Comments are closed-
Posted by: Grandma Crabby on Oct 10, 2007 8:15 AM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
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» Well, there ya go... "No one with ANY BRAINS..."
Posted by: sausage
» Why do you think we got Reagan?
Posted by: Cathyc
» Don't blame me, I never voted for the guy.
Posted by: sausage
Comments are closed-
Posted by: Trixie on Oct 10, 2007 9:11 AM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Where do all the people who plan to wring the last farthing out of fossil fuel use plan to live when the jig's up -- or don't they care? Of what use will their money be, unless it's to migrate to another planet (good luck!)?
I hope all you nay-sayers out there can tread water indefinitely.
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Comments are closed-
Posted by: eosrk on Oct 10, 2007 9:11 AM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
stronger, more frequent hurricanes
stronger, more fequent tornadoes
extreme flooding
extreme drought
more above and below average temps
more deforestation worldwide
increased asthma
more cancer showing up.....IN THE USA
increased levels of CO2 and more ozone
so, if there's no global warming going on, then what's causing it. I'm asking the experts this question because they don't seem to have an clear answer either, cause when they are asked, they give vague, eskhewed statements and not the damn answer to the question, like what the GOP and most Democrats do!
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» RE: If there's no global warming, then why is this happening?
Posted by: GlobalWeather
» RE: If there's no global warming, then why is this happening?
Posted by: Shey
Comments are closed-
Posted by: Constitutionalist75 on Oct 10, 2007 9:53 AM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
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Comments are closed-
Posted by: vangogh69 on Oct 10, 2007 10:38 AM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
We cannot hope, however, to deal with this climate change issue while hoping that the present capitalist system of commerce and trade remains...if anything, capitalism is a major cause of climate change and while I'm not saying socialism is solely the answer, we do have to consider all of the factors in addressing the problem.
Anyway, my 2 cents.
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» RE: An immediate observation
Posted by: american
» Something is MOST DEFINITELY up!
Posted by: Cathyc
Comments are closed-
Posted by: Sojourner on Oct 10, 2007 10:55 AM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Now we have moved to stage #2. Will some of the worst consequences hit us in this century or not until the next century? (If you look at the blurb at the beginning of this article, that's the journalist's subject.) How much time do the most vulnerable locations have to protect themselves? That's the remaining argument.
And, yes, the writer dramatized and exaggerated. And so do some of the comments here--even while leaning in the other direction. Denial comes in many forms. The Maldives Islands in the south Pacific are scheduled to go back below the sea at some point soon--20 years, 30 years. It will probably take that for the denyers (not to shut up because denial can be a way of life) to lose their last shred of credibility.
Everything now depends on when we get going on regaining a helpful influence on our climate. We cannot reverse what we have done. We can correct its worst results.
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» We can only correct SOME of the damage we've done...
Posted by: Cathyc
» Freud agrees. He called it the "death instinct"; thanatos
Posted by: Sojourner
Comments are closed-
Posted by: jeffrey7 on Oct 10, 2007 10:56 AM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
When I was a boy,back before there was such a thing as the EPA, The damage to the environment had critters dying off,ecosystems failing at a regular pace and rivers setting themselves on fire. Token laws were passed and there was a lot of grandstanding and then there was Love Canal.Drinking water fron thousands fowled by indusrty forcing many to leave their properties.Laying waste to the American Dream.
Industry responded with the home water purifying system.
As our emissions improved we warned the Congress they had twenty years,maybe less, to get their act together before an irreversable greenhouse effect would be created. Industry's
response? SP45 sun blocker and cheap air conditioners. The creation of a million new products that need eletricity to work and have a constant power draw when they are supposed to be turned off. Industry knows it's altering the weather patterns,sea levels and air quality for every living thing.
The pisser is....they knew it generations ago and engineered for it so they could be first at the profit line when the changes start happening. So we,the people, have been sold out,yet again, by the Government for the benefit of the Wealthy. They
know climate change is here and can't be stopped. But they also have plenty of supplys for the picking and choosing. With lovely water front condos and gondolas and of course water purifyers and air cleaners.
Think Outside the System
Jeffrey7
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» Think outside the System?
Posted by: Cathyc
» That's Naomi Klein's "Crisis Capitalism" in a nutshell.
Posted by: Sojourner
» RE: Not to be the Bearer of bad news........
Posted by: Shey
Comments are closed-
Posted by: Democritus on Oct 10, 2007 11:06 AM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Consider this from a report sponsored by the right-wing John Locke Foundation and written by Joseph Schwartz in July 2007: "The restrictions they [environmentalists] seek to force on the world would require us to relinquish the energy consumption that undergirds the extraordinary prosperity, health, and comfort of life in the U.S., the nations of Europe, and other wealthy countries. At the same time, those restrictions would prevent individuals in the world's poorest nations from aspiring to the rich world's quality of life, consigning them instead to continued poverty an hardship."
Now, doesn't that sound like one rich person telling other rich people not to give up their creature comforts just to save something meaningless like the environment? And doesn't it also tell poor people that if they want some trickle-down effects from the very rich, they ought to sacrifice their environment as well? Why don't we call them what they are: "selfish bastards." They pay off researchers to gather evidence for the view that will keep the wealth flowing into their coffers. If that means that the environment suffers, so be it. They don't want to pay more taxes to clean up what they've damaged, and they want their fossil-fuel gravy train to keep on running. After all, what's the destruction of the environment compared to a good magnum of Dom Perignon.
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» RE: Follow the money
Posted by: Krain61
Comments are closed-
Posted by: jueledwards on Oct 10, 2007 11:09 AM
Current rating: 1 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
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» Got any links to maps where there was no Antarctic ice cap?
Posted by: american
» RE: Got any links to maps where there was no Antarctic ice cap?
Posted by: famouspipeliner
» here is a link for that 'information' on antartic free of ice
Posted by: KaptainSpiffy
» RE: Let Nature do its thing
Posted by: leafsong1
» Nature? We've already destroyed Nature!
Posted by: Cathyc
» RE: Let Nature do its thing
Posted by: Shey
Comments are closed-
Posted by: willymack on Oct 10, 2007 11:36 AM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
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» RE: Fear mongers & nut cases
Posted by: bcgirl125
» There's a difference between GRADUAL global warming and RAPID GW...
Posted by: Cathyc
» RE: Fear mongers & nut cases
Posted by: particle
» RE: Fear mongers & nut cases
Posted by: bcgirl125
» RE: Fear mongers & nut cases
Posted by: particle
» RE: Fear mongers & nut cases
Posted by: bcgirl125
Comments are closed-
Posted by: writerman on Oct 10, 2007 12:37 PM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
This is a recipe for longterm disaster. We seem to be turning our backs on over two centuries of progress and science and rationality; and turning towards superstition again. Bye, bye, the enlightenment and hello a new dark age mentality. At the rate we're going we'll end up sacrificing witches to appease the weather gods and reverse global warming!
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» RE: They Burn Witches, Don't They?
Posted by: mcstewey
Comments are closed-
Posted by: Krain61 on Oct 10, 2007 1:09 PM
Current rating: 4 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
But think about! We have pumped billions if not trillions of gallons
of oil from the ground and most has created heat. Where did all that heat go?
Yes some places do get snow but if it's not staying like it has in past years
how can we think were not part of it! And it's not slowing but increasing!
I guess we could fill them oil well with sea water to get rid of some of it.
It really amazes me how some posters say "let stick to the facts"
OK we can but who was alive back when it melted last time?
That's like these so called experts saying they know how the twin towers
would fall as if they already knocked building down that size.
With the enviroment we can not wait for fact because they will only be fact
after the fact. And the poster who said about seeing trees in museums.
Look at all the trees we cut down and take into consideration also the trees
lost to wild fires and then add to that whats used in papper mills and cut down
to build houses in there place or roads or whatever.
This is a fact! We can not have a economy that forever goes on!
Maybe we can devert some of the rising waters to places like the grand cannon
or death vally or even other places but we still have to face the heat.
We are making the earth heat up faster by roads and buildings.
Progress is good but at the cost of our own exstintion!
The people here who think only of there self are the ones who think it's just
a natrual cycle and it won't happen in there life time.
But what about the future generations? They deserve a world that can sustain
people. The hotter it get's the more energy will be used for food and cooling
our homes. being one of the biggest pigs on the planet should mean we should
lead the pack on fixing the problem.
No I guess sticking our heads in the sand will do just fine!
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Comments are closed-
Posted by: juanpecan81 on Oct 10, 2007 1:15 PM
Current rating: 4 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
The way I feel lately, let it get washed away. The people coming here are the same ones that shrug with indifference at every social event except the opening/closing of a starbucks. All these suburbanites trying to export the suburban mall experience to the city, cars and all, let em swim.
I speak in annoyance, of course this is a major problem. We need to match a sense of alarm with a sense of hope and can-do (one without the other leads to postmodern blah paralysis). All of human history is a record of the impossible made common place, for good and bad. So what first?
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Comments are closed-
Posted by: BlackbirdHighway on Oct 10, 2007 1:56 PM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
It's not all good though, the reason they stopped shrinking is that they are gone, disappeared, completely melted away.
But just watch Lomborg and friends will still use this as "evidence" that global warming isn't so bad after all. That's just the way they distort the facts, so be aware, and beware!
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Comments are closed-
Posted by: Iconoclast421 on Oct 10, 2007 2:19 PM
Current rating: 1 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
The vast majority of the earths salt (along with the water) comes right out of the deep ocean vents.
Why is this important? Well you have to combine it with a few more facts. Like the fact that the off-shelf ocean floor has never been measured to be more than 200 million years old. Which means all the massive amounts of water on the earth, the vast majority of it, is fairly new, fairly recent. If you average out this expansion, it comes out to about a trillion gallons a year. That is a trillion gallons a year of new water being produced by the earth. (Along with many billions of tons of salt.) All pouring out from deep ocean fissures in gaseous form. But the earth itself is also expanding, so the land/sea ratio balances out.
The point is that with all these billions of gallons of new water arriving every day, it renders moot any effect of melting land based ice. (Sea based ice reduces sea levels when it melts.) And to top it all off, land based ice isnt melting.
The melting of mountain icecaps are however a genuine concern, and millions will suffer unimaginably when that "valve" gets shut off. But as for New York drowning? Dont count on that.
If you do the research and think with both sides of your brain, you will reach the same conclusions. The earth is growing. And mainstream science is missing some very key pieces of information necessary to make logical conclusions. It is sad and yet laughable at the same time. But it is deadly serious when bad science influences policy.
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» Please be quiet.
Posted by: LeaderofMen
» bring your facts to the table
Posted by: Iconoclast421
» RE: bring your facts to the table
Posted by: non-onymous
» RE: bring your facts to the table
Posted by: Iconoclast421
» RE: bring your facts to the table
Posted by: LeaderofMen
» RE: bring your facts to the table
Posted by: non-onymous
» Actually, this is the cool 'expanding earth' theory
Posted by: anw
» RE: Actually, this is the cool 'expanding earth' theory
Posted by: Iconoclast421
» RE: Both "Sides" of the Global Warming Debate are Wrong
Posted by: particle
» RE: Both "Sides" of the Global Warming Debate are Wrong
Posted by: Iconoclast421
» Crank Alert... or is it?
Posted by: particle
» RE: Crank Alert... or is it?
Posted by: Iconoclast421
» RE: Crank Alert... or is it?
Posted by: particle
» Fantasy nm
Posted by: Bbear41
Comments are closed-
Posted by: Cathyc on Oct 10, 2007 3:06 PM
Current rating: 1 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
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» And I always wish. . .
Posted by: Beck
» Avoiding responsibility is childish--to which there's no other answer than, grow up.
Posted by: Sojourner
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Posted by: LeaderofMen on Oct 10, 2007 3:44 PM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Once those companies find important things like diamonds, gold and other minerals NO ONE will care at all about global warming.
In addition, every shipping company on the planet is waiting, with sweat beading on their brows, for that all important Northwest Passage to be permanently opened. Once it opens NO ONE will care about global warming.
The planet is NOT in our hands. The planet is in the hands of extremely powerful corporations that are in business to extract raw materials to generate wealth. The more people we have on the planet, the more that wealth is required to sustain the population.
Global warming is NOT going to go away. Coastlines WILL change. Mega-corps and the politicians they have purchased will FACILITATE the changes that are coming. There is far too much money to be made with the coming changes. Anyone who thinks that we have an 'opportunity' to change that is dreaming. Trillions and trillions of dollars are about to be made. There are extremely powerful people ready to make those trillions. It will not be stopped by any nation, group of nations or even a billion good-willed environmentalists. They are simply not powerful enough to thwart the will of industrialists who are already in the Halls of Power.
And, once more land is exposed in Antartica there will be a land grab there, too. Treaties be damned. After all, we're seeing the ramp up of the militarization of the Arctic as we speak.
It's all different now. Nothing will stop the changes. We haven't the will. All that will change is who will own the new world once the globe changes.
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» "Eat, drink, and be merry, for tomorrow we die"?
Posted by: Sojourner
» RE: "Eat, drink, and be merry, for tomorrow we die"?
Posted by: MAD
» Trillions of $$$...
Posted by: Cathyc
» RE: Trillions of $$$...
Posted by: MAD
» I wonder...
Posted by: Bbear41
Comments are closed-
Posted by: Glennk1949 on Oct 10, 2007 3:46 PM
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» Five blocks is too close!
Posted by: williameon
» 200 feet rise in his lifetime? Yes, you are a bunch of idiots
Posted by: chief of okeefe
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Posted by: Gravitas on Oct 10, 2007 4:59 PM
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"Weight obsession is a social disease. If we cared more about CO2 than BMI there MIGHT still be time."
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Posted by: dayahka on Oct 10, 2007 8:06 PM
Current rating: 1 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Whether or not CO2 or human actions are the cause of climate change is one issue that is, contrary of what some think, so far unsettled. The other issue is what to do about climate change: try to push back the forces of change or adapt?
Some people seem to think that Greenland must remain icy, New York must remain as and where it is, Florida must remain above water (else where will hurricanes land or retirees retire?), the small Pacific islands must remain habitable. This is all total nonsense. Climate changes. Get used to it. As things change, we will adapt, cities will be moved, habitations will be moved, farming will be moved, and we'll get on with life until the next major changes in climate, which may be warming or cooling.
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» To pitiful for words. N/T
Posted by: particle
» RE: We do not live on a static planet
Posted by: Shey
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Posted by: macdon1 on Oct 10, 2007 8:36 PM
Current rating: 4 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
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» Our climate is broken,
Posted by: Ellie1
» RE: The Garden is a Mess
Posted by: weatherking
Comments are closed-
Posted by: Morphizm on Oct 10, 2007 8:39 PM
Current rating: 4 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
I wrote about Brown's article today for the MorphBlog and Huffington Post, and found the same thing when I ventured to its comment section. Vociferous criticism, well-intentioned defense.
I'd like to think it's a complete coincidence, or healthy give-and-take, but I know the energy sector and its adherents a bit too well for that. Enviro articles have been infested by their trolls at a rate that is only matched by global warming itself. Don't waste your time arguing science and reason with them. They're not here for that. They're here to cause doubt for the fence-sitters and cash a paycheck. Ignore them. They won't go away, but ignore them anyway. That's my four cents.
However, Brown's thesis, and the science behind it, is too powerful to ignore.
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» RE: Ignore the Trolls
Posted by: Morphizm
» RE: Ignore the Trolls
Posted by: Shey
Comments are closed-
Posted by: drfun on Oct 10, 2007 10:37 PM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
People must give up their multi-thousand square foot homes, and the A/C-heating machines provide climate control for them. Those double wide refrigerators suck up a lot of wattage, along with all the kitchen gadgets with motors too.
Think of all the big screen/ high def TV's, or least to forget the multi wattage home entertainment stereo equipment most homes in the U.S. contain. The MP3-4, i-pods laptops, PC's that provide the means of communication all require that plug and wall socket supply of energy 24/7.
The electric blankets, massage chairs, whirlpool jacuzzi tubs, steamers and other commodities which consume electricity in the bedroom/bathroom are real energy suckers.
Most garages in the U.S. have more tools in them than a third world city, and to fill up an SUV once takes more energy to produce the fuel, than all the food to feed one person in the developing world for a year.
Just remember that all the developing countries have billions of people who are demanding these same things.
Alas, I resign to possess what few electrical devices I own, resort to riding a bike than driving a car, or use public transport to get to more distant destinations. I use a internet-bar computer and don't own a cell phone.
How is my life, pretty basic, but at least I'm living my environmental philosophy rather than just espousing shallow rhetoric.
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» That may help your concience but will not affect the climate
Posted by: chief of okeefe
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Posted by: dancerkc on Oct 10, 2007 11:36 PM
Current rating: 3 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
So yes, there is a build up but it is warmer and wetter snow which also melts faster. Further, because it is warmer and warmer each year at some point it can't make it as snow of any kind, turning into sleet and at some point turning into just plain rain.
Normally, these are COLD deserts - less than 10-inches of precipitation in any year. The air is too cold to hold enough moisture to cause enough snow to accumulate quickly. It is also too cold to evaporate so the snow builds up in very thin layers over the thousands of years. It is very SLOW to build any depth when the climate is so cold.
Maybe you ought to take a few science courses instead of your ignorant ID crap. You mistake is thinking that cold=snow and snow=cold. That isn't the mechanism. The quantity of precipitation is directly affected by the amount of water in the air and that depends on the temperature. The colder the air the less moisture it can hold. The warmer the air the more it holds until it gets into just plain hot - and then we have HOT deserts.
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» Right Wing Stupid - Warming causes MORE snow
Posted by: Spot
Comments are closed-
Posted by: zbob on Oct 11, 2007 5:15 AM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
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» RE: Tough couple of months for the deniers
Posted by: ConnecttheDots
» Deny what?
Posted by: chief of okeefe
Comments are closed-
Posted by: williameon on Oct 11, 2007 7:16 AM
Current rating: Not yet rated [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
There will be a world wide flood.
We are at a pivotal time in History.
The Cor-‘pirate’ Empire has outlived its usefulness.
It’s a sham.
It must be dismantled
It will take a fight.
But, we must take back our Democracy and everything else they have stolen.
Before it's too late!
They have abused their power before and will again.
Millions of innocent lives have been lost at what a cost!
Unless we stop them now.
We need a complete decentralization of The Corporate System.
Local manufacturing, energy and food production are important parts of this change.
Invest in yourselves, your neighborhoods, energy independence and food production.
While they are robbing everybody blind do you think they're worrying about you?
Forget the Shlock Market.
Invest in yourself.
Spend your Dollars while they are still worth something!
The End of the Oil age is upon us.
We must cast off it's yoke of oppression.
When Dick The Heartless Ch-‘ainey’ dies?
So will it!
Who owns the World?
A few ruthless criminals that have taken control and privatized everything for their own benefit?
Or
Everyone else?
Fundamental to the re-
Democratization of America is a Free Vital Local Media,
Exempt from Corporate and Government control.
The Media Conglomerates will be broken up.
Local news and media production is an important part of Democratic life.
It’s a safety issue.
The power of the media must be returned to the people.
For the safety and benefit of everyone.
Billionaires-R-Us must relinquish their stranglehold on public discourse.
They have abused their power by limiting viewpoints and information.
Ever far worst they have openly used well know repetitive Hypnotic Techniques to
Brainwash the Citizenry.
They are also poisoning the people by adding dangerous nutrient less poisonous chemicals to the food supply.
Diabetes epidemic anyone?
The Dark Army must be disbanded.
While all of our local Militia is off fighting a phony War,
Who is protecting us here?
We are in deep Doo Doo!
The Change is upon us.
Will we take Destiny into our own hands?
and change it for the better?
Or
Will we bow down to Corpirate Control?
Even the Iraqis are fighting for their country.
What are we doing here?
Free ourselves again and lead by example.
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Posted by: PaulK on Oct 11, 2007 6:46 PM
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Posted by: january37 on Oct 12, 2007 3:48 PM
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Posted by: GlobalWeather on Oct 13, 2007 3:15 PM
Current rating: 1 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Also, it is fairly common knowledge among researchers that as temperatures warm during these cycles, Arctic and Antarctic ice melts and releases carbon dioxide into the atmosphere. During a 200-year natural cycle the temperatures begin warming first, ice begins melting, water vapor (the most important greenhouse gas) increases and absorbs carbon dioxide naturally being released by the air bubbles trapped in melting ice.
Global Weather Oscillations has extensively researched these natural global warming cycles and will be releasing information on the real cause of these natural cycles (late November to December). The release will also show that global warming will be "ending" around the year 2010.
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Posted by: gdsnide on Oct 14, 2007 5:57 AM
Current rating: 2 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Someone who has never been able to have anyone listen to him/her can come on here & be ann expert or some gifted
sort of person who knows it all.
As for global warming?
Big deal.
If it's warming it's warming.
If it's not it's not.
But, what I likw a large percentahe KNOW DEFINATLY how
to correct it.
My thought is we make giant Air Condtioners & run them all the time so we can cool the climate back down.
As good an idea as I have read on here so far.
Make cars that emit less pollution is ridicilous.
If we have already wrecked the climate what good is slowing down the amount of pollutiom going to do.
Hey, now I'm a Genius as I have come up with a fool proof plan to correct the situation.
But, I still want to here more ideas ( Even though I solved problem but I didn't invent the Internet ha) as every one is more interesting than the other.
OK, one more idea. About 3 times a day take all the ice out of the refrigrator & dump it in the Ocean,Creeks & lakes.
Now if anyone disagrees let me know & I'll convince U why my theories are fool proof. ha Or maybe I may have some new plans
Typical Internet User
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Posted by: Candleinheart on Oct 14, 2007 6:45 AM
Current rating: 1 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Rolling Thundar then and Natives now speak of a great cleansing that has begun. Mother Earth is sick and will repel that which makes her sick.US. A virus enters your body. your body fights to repel it. To cleanse you of the invading virus. well, this is happening now. They have in their visions, as other visionaries, very difficult times ahead and natural disasters.
Leo Tolstoy the writer, and many others including a wealthy executive, gave up their wealth, mansions, lands, three Mercedes, etc.etc. to live humble, simple lives. They found peace, happiness, and their 'God." Rolling Thundar repeatedly stated, "It is a good life here." (on the reservation.) It was. A peace, a unity, a looking out for one another, a sweetness in the men, wholesome food grown and served at every meal.
A Native American came to a series of lectures I had sponsered. He stated powerfully, clearly. His granchildren will never live their full life expectancy. A documentary stated in 25 years Life on this planet will be unsustainable. When Natives held their meetings in their Kivas their decisions were based on this fact alone, "Will this dicesion be a good thing for our people seven generations from now?" We have people running the world whose vision is from eye to wallet. Chose wisely who you vote for. It is crucial. Get rid of credit cards. Live on your income only. Cherish Life not 'things.' Get into Nature. Buy local produce. Read labels. Reject foods with added 'crap'. Love this planet and your neighbors and most of all, love yourself. So much each of us can do. It's up to us. Not the Politicians.
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Posted by: chief of okeefe on Oct 14, 2007 5:29 PM
Current rating: 2 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
The real inconvenient truth
This site posits that a human-caused CO2 increase (which is not contested) will cause some limited warming, but almost all we have seen is all we will get. In technical terms, the law of diminishing returns.
The alarmists are welcome to reply to my post with a link to a site which provides a scientific rebuttal. I do not expect a scientific rebuttal, only hysterical noise.
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» RE: Time for a debate about "runaway" global warming theories
Posted by: mandiwrite
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Posted by: weatherking on Oct 16, 2007 9:34 PM
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Trial Begins for Activist Who Fought to Protect Federal Lands from Drilling -- Join the Protest
California Carbon Trading Allows Timber Companies to Sell CO2 Credits for Their Worst Logging Practices
How to Answer the Dumb Things Climate Deniers Say




