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Environment

Hydropower Doesn't Count as Clean Energy

By Sarah Phelan, Earth Island Journal. Posted October 5, 2007.


Think hydropower helps in the fight against climate change? Think again.
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Opponents of dams have long argued against putting barriers in the natural flow of a river. Dams, they point out, prevent endangered fish from migrating, alter ecosystems, and threaten the livelihoods of local communities.

Native Americans, fishing communities, and environmentalists have made these arguments in their quest to decommission four dams on Klamath River, which runs from southwest Oregon to the coast of California. But with California requiring a 25 percent reduction in the state's carbon dioxide emissions by 2020, clean energy has suddenly entered the Klamath dam debate.

Bill Fehrman, president of PacifiCorp, the hydropower company that owns these Klamath dams, says replacing the power from these dams "could result in adding combustion emissions to the environment."

Meanwhile, across the border in Canada, Hydro-Québec, the world's biggest producer of hydropower, claims that "compared with other generating options, hydropower emits very little greenhouse gas," thus "contributing significantly to the fight against climate change."

Maybe not. Recent reports on methane emissions suggest that dams are anything but carbon-neutral.

According to recently published estimates from Ivan Lima and some of his colleagues at Brazil's National Institute for Space Research, the world's 52,000 largest dams release 104 million metric tons of methane annually. If Lima's calculations are correct, then dams would account for about four percent of the total warming impact of human activities -- and would constitute the largest single source of human-related methane emissions.

As Lima points out, if methane released from reservoir surfaces, spillways, and turbines were taken into account, India's greenhouse emissions could be as much as 40 percent higher than its current official estimates. But though India ranks among the world's top polluters, as a developing nation it is not required to cut emissions -- and has yet to measure methane from its 4,500 dams. And that's a problem, because while methane does not last as long in the atmosphere as carbon dioxide, its heat-trapping potential is 25 times stronger.

A Swirling Debate

Lima is not alone in questioning whether dams' emissions may be as harmful in terms of climate change as those from fossil fuel plants. In 2004, Philip Fearnside of the National Institute for Research in the Amazon suggested that a massive surge of methane emissions could occur when water is discharged under pressure at hydroelectric dams in a process known in the industry as "degassing."

The problem with dams is that organic matter gets trapped in them when land is first flooded, and more gets flushed in, or grows there, later on. In tropical zones, such as Brazil, this matter quickly decays to form methane and carbon dioxide.

But just how big a problem this creates is controversial. A debate has been raging for years between researchers connected to Hydro-Québec and Brazil's Electrobras, the world's largest hydropower companies, and several small teams of independent hydrologists.

According to Fearnside, if degassing emissions were factored in at several large hydropower plants in Brazil, then these dams would be larger contributors to global warming than their fossil fuel counterparts. To be precise, Fearnside suggested that during the first decade of its life, each of these dams would emit four times as much carbon as a fossil fuel plant that makes the same amount of electricity.

Fearnside's claims have triggered a firestorm. Luis Pinguelli Rosa, formerly of Electrobras but now based at the Federal University of Rio de Janeiro, claimed Fearnside had made "scientific errors," including a failure to grasp how degassing works, and so had exaggerated the emission levels.

Rosa pointed out that Fearnside had extrapolated his calculations from data taken from the Petit Saut dam in French Guyana in the years immediately following the creation of the reservoir, when organic matter, and thus methane emissions, would likely be their highest. Patrick McCully, executive director of the Berkeley, CA-based International Rivers Network, says that one of the areas of strongest disagreement among reservoir emissions researchers is how to quantify net emissions.

In a recent paper, "Fizzy Science," McCully shows that key factors influencing reservoir greenhouse gas emissions include fluctuations in water level, growth and decay of aquatic plants, decomposition of flooded biomass and soils, the amount of methane bubbling from the surface, and the amount of carbon dioxide diffusing in.

But as McCully points out, "The most comprehensive analyses of net emissions have been done by Fearnside -- while Pinguelli Rosa has only presented data on gross emissions."

With controversy continuing to swirl about methane emissions from dams, including those in boreal regions such as Québec, where the soil is famously peaty, as well as those in China and India, where lots more dams are planned, Stanford University researchers Danny Cullenward and David Victor are calling for more study of the issue. "Whether you are a conservative Brazilian like Rosa, or a more aggressive Brazilian like Fearnside, we are looking at a significant amount of methane that currently is not being factored into global models for atmospheric methane and global [climate] change," says Cullenward, who believes that more data are sorely needed.

Doug Dixon, manager of Hydropower Research at the Electric Power Research Institute in Washington, DC says his group is not doing any research into methane emissions from dams at the present time.

"It's a controversial issue," says Dixon. "There are scientists on both sides of fence as to whether there are significant greenhouse gas emissions from dams."

Noting that methane emissions from dams has not surfaced as a major concern in temperate areas of the US, Dixon adds, "But it's a big issue for the World Bank."

While the World Bank acknowledges the goal of addressing greenhouse gas concerns in its investment portfolio, and though it funds fewer dams then it used to, it still invests tens of millions a year, and it's unclear if it considers methane emissions when deciding on projects.

Former World Bank Director Paul Wolfowitz spoke publicly about the importance of investing in clean energy, but the climate change position of the bank's new director, Robert Zoellick, is less clear. Carbon Credits for Dams?

If methane emissions from dams turn out to be as big as a problem as some scientists now estimate, how will this affect the politics of hydroelectricity?

Cullenwald says he and IRN's McCully have both argued that the Intergovernmental Panel on Climate Change (IPCC) should take up the issue as a Special Project, but that global geopolitics are confounding the effort. At the United Nations Climate Change Conference in Nairobi, Kenya in the fall of 2006, McCully urged IPCC officials to do a study on dams and methane -- but he ran into opposition.

"They said they wouldn't be able to do a Special Report, because that would need a lot of agreements, and Brazil, which is very powerful politically, is dead set against it, as is India," McCully says. "However, the IPCC folks did say that this definitely is an issue that needs to be better understood, and that their next report is going to be on renewables. They made a verbal commitment to deal with the methane emissions issue, but it could take years."

Other climate-related bodies have already been forced to look at methane emissions as they relate to dams. Currently developed nations that fund clean energy projects can get carbon credits to meet their Kyoto Protocol targets through a program called the Clean Development Mechanism (CDM). Under the program, some dams are eligible for credits, while others are not.

"They (CDM) have adopted a policy that says 'no' to very large reservoirs being able to get carbon credits," McCully says. Medium-sized dams are given some allowances, however.

"It means that at least the very worst, dams are not going to get carbon credits," says McCully, noting that 400 dams have applied to receive carbon credits under the CDM, and that half of all these dams are in China.

McCully argues that dams are not the best option in terms of energy efficiency compared to solar, wind, and geothermal options.

"So, in terms of energy efficiency, solar, wind and geothermal options are better, and hydropower is not renewable, because reservoirs fill up with sediment and cost billions to dredge," he says, pointing to dams on the Colorado River, which are seeing the lowest water levels in recorded history.

There is a potential energy upside to the methane emissions equation. Capturing methane in reservoirs and using it to fuel power plants, says Lima, would mean we could "avoid the need to build new dams with their associated human and environmental costs."

McCully agrees that there could be benefits to capturing and burning the methane from reservoirs. "Doing so could significantly reduce the methane emissions. So while it would do away with an argument against the dams-as-clean-energy theory, extracting methane for electricity could help Brazil to not build any more dams. And removing methane reduces the dam's warming impact by 25 times."

Murky Waters

For now, at least, the science surrounding methane and dams remains so inconclusive that the issue is unlikely to play a decisive role in the immediate debates about dam construction and decommissioning. As the fight continues over the dams on the Klamath and many other rivers, uncertainties about methane emissions will mostly serve to make already complex arguments even thornier. To make the issue even murkier, removing a dam could lead to a short-term burst of emissions.

"No one has measured emissions there [on the Klamath], and they may be high," McCully says. "A couple of the dams have horrendous water quality and a huge algae problem, but there's also the question of how much [greenhouse gases] could be released if these dams are decommissioned, because there could be loads of carbon in the sediments. No one really knows. It's pretty complicated."



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See more stories tagged with: global warming, climate change, damns, hydropower

Sarah Phelan covers the environment and City Hall for the San Francisco Bay Guardian. A native of London, England, she loves bridges and fog.

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Nothing is really clean...
Posted by: chomsky on Oct 5, 2007 1:06 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Nuclear is not clean (Nuclear wastes).
Coal is not clean (Chemical polution).
Dams are not clean (see your article).
Solar Pannels are not clean (Chemical polution from the pannels).
Wind farms are not clean (Visual/audio polution, some harmful to birds).
Wave farms maybe? (Might be harmful to sea life...)
The trick is to calculate the ratio power produced / polution produced and keep the highest.
And, we could kick ourselves in the axx and start saving energy!
Have a look at this...

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» Geothermal... Posted by: ahmlco
» RE: Nothing is really clean... Posted by: richholland
» Something is really clean... Posted by: ProgressiveManiac
The 90% solution
Posted by: ahmlco on Oct 5, 2007 1:29 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Sometimes I think that a number of environmentalists will only be happy once they find a solution that kills off 90% of the human population on the planet.

But then again, think of all the methane that would release.

Drat.

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» You may be close to the truth Posted by: ReallyBearish
» Happy with 66% Posted by: vertical
Compared to what?
Posted by: AsteroidMiner on Oct 5, 2007 1:43 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Sarah Phelan; you know perfectly well that if a dam comes down, an
electric power company will replace it with a coal fired power plant. As
you should also know by now, burning coal will result in OUR
EXTINCTION in 200 years. Yes, I said the EXTINCTION of HOMO
SAPIENS. See:
http://www.sciam.com/article.cfm?articleID=00037A5D-
A938-150E-A93883414B7F0000&sc=I100322
This URL is for the October 2006 Scientific American article: "Impact
from the Deep." According to this article, Global warming will cause
hydrogen sulfide to bubble out of the oceans, killing ALL MAMMALS
including us, the whales, the elephants, etc., as well as the birds and other
creatures that need oxygen, maybe even the endangered fish. The article
compares our burning of fossil fuels like coal to several mass extinctions.
It isn't a matter of preventing all extinctions. Global warming is already
causing 1000 extinctions for every one species saved by the Endangered
Species Act. It is a matter of WHICH species, and there is one species
that I am particularly fond of called Homo Sapiens.

"According to recently published estimates from Ivan Lima and some of
his colleagues at Brazil's National Institute for Space Research, the
world's 52,000 largest dams release 104 million metric tons of methane
annually."
That is only 2000 tons per dam. How much electricity is produced by an
average dam? I don't know, but Sarah Phelan should have found out.
Sarah Phelan should also have provided the references, and preferably the
whole papers so that we could check the research and calculations she
referenced. Let's SWAG [Scientist's Wild Ass Guess] it and assume that
an average dam produces as much electricity as one standard unit coal
fired power plant. How does 2000 tons of methane [CH4] compare with
14.7 Million tons of carbon dioxide [CO2]? 2000/14.7 Million = 1.36 E-
4 = .000136
Compare this to 1/25= .04
.000136/.04=3.4 e-3= .0034
So the dams produce 0.34% as much greenhouse effect as the equivalent
coal fired power plants in their first 10 years. And the CH4 will burn to
CO2 and water. But, we can do better by clearing the trees and soil
away before building the dam or by collecting the CH4 after building the
dam.

Wind power and those other alternative sources don't work when the
wind isn't blowing, or the sun isn't shining or the tide isn't flowing, etc.
The electric company isn't going to build wind turbines or solar panels or
any of those others. They know that you are paranoid about nuclear, so
they are going to build coal fired power plants to replace dams.
So, Sarah Phelan: Do you want to be partly responsible for the electric
company's building of Another coal fired power plant? Remember, our
extinction will definitely put an end to salmon fishing and all that stuff.
Our extinction will also put an end to coal mining.
I have no financial interest in any of the sides of this debate. Sarah
Phelan: How much coal mine stock do you own?

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» RE: Compared to what? Posted by: Sushi
Methane
Posted by: Logic's Edge on Oct 5, 2007 4:43 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
If methane is being produced, it's likely a result of biological activity. If it's algae to blame, perhaps something could be done to reduce activity in the lake, such as restricting nitrogen flow into it or introducing some sort of algae eaters.

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For 70 years, INDUSTRIAL HEMP was banned thanks to
Posted by: maxpayne on Oct 5, 2007 5:56 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Big OIL/COAL/CHEMICAL/FOOD/COTTON/etc ... The fact is the inventors of the automobile never designed their vehicles to use petroleum but to use natural plant oils. All that changed of course and now that the damage has been done, it's time to undo it. Conservation helps but it ain't going to do much help in the long run as long as we continue to rely on petroleum, coal, and nuclear in the foreseeable future.

And don't forget the STEAM ENGINE that could have saved us all.

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Nobody said carbon neutral
Posted by: lamar on Oct 5, 2007 7:33 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
"Recent reports on methane emissions suggest that dams are anything but carbon-neutral."

Nobody is saying that they are carbon neutral, and as the paragraph immediately before this quote states, hydro power emits very little greenhouse gas. "Very Little" means "Not Carbon Neutral."

Ultimately, there is a tradeoff, and nothing in this article suggests that hydro-power is a bad option given the alternatives. Like any portfolio, our energy portfolio needs to strike a balance.

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One also has to wonder...
Posted by: RON_KING on Oct 5, 2007 7:37 AM   
Current rating: 4    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
...how much of the methane attributed to dams would have occured without the dam. Biomass decays all over the planet and contributes to methane production.

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» RE: One also has to wonder... Posted by: monkeywrench
Paul Cardwell
Posted by: Paul Cardwell on Oct 5, 2007 7:49 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
True enough, but this applies to all lakes, whether municipal water supply, hydroelectric generators, or just natural.

Back in the early 1980s, the Corps of Engineers issued a press release to the effect that if existing lakes were retrofitted with hydroelectric capability over a couple of megawatt potential, it would equal all US nuclear plants planned or in operation combined.

I tried to get a copy of this study and got a runaround. The crew at the nearby Denison dam had heard about the study, but had not seen it, and sent me to Dallas. They sent me to Kansas City. Kansas City told me the study existed but was to be studied further "with increasingly severe criteria".

Apparently that meant when it was shown to be impractical, it would be released as an argument against retrofitting. But it never was released, indicating that it was highly feasible.

Still, the methane release, silting, eutrification, and all the other problems of large lakes continues without any gain of no-dirtier electricity than from the lakes themselves.

Recognize the problem, but make sure you have the right guilty party. In any case, don't flood any more "good bottom land" we need for food production.

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BUZZ: Proposed People's Campaign to Assert Our Full Western Democratic Rights on Nov. 4 2007 ( new
Posted by: etisoppa on Oct 5, 2007 7:53 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
I know this is off topic but it is more immediate. It is something readers of this politics and those of conscience no matter their politics, will support.

I am sure it is all our experience, or "sense-of-it" that the NWO powers-that-be do not want "people" talking about "mind assault technology" especially as an actuality.

I am going to assume that you are ALL like me 100% four-square behind the US Constitutionals our modern Democratic Western democracy civilization of individual rights freedom of thought, expression and congregation. We did not defeat the Totalitarian Communists just to become a Totalitarian society on ANY basis at all.

I am suggesting a campaign where we assert to these NWO people that we as still Western democracies with ALL our rights 100% intact. NOT one % point of our rights have been forfeited for ANYTHING.

So to make sure they understand this I am proposing that we start a campaign where on this November 4th we are all as free citizens, going to talk about "mind assault technology" to each other , to the media, on the net any place we can, whether we believe in mind assault technology or not.

We have to let these NWO people understand that our full Western individual rights are still intact and it is something we are proud of. We feel proud of being part of this civilization which, in theory, demands the best of qualities in each person.


WE WANT TO CREATE AN INTERNET "BUZZ" THAT WILL BECOME A FULL BUZZ. POST THE IDEA ON WEBSITES ON ALTERNATIVE NEWS SITE ETC.
POST WITH PEOPLE KNOWN TO BE 100% BEHIND OUR CONSTITUTIONAL RIGHTS IN POLITICS , MEDIA, GROUPS WITH CONSTITUTIONAL VIEWS ETC.


AS to any who may have any belief-system reservations about doing this
( I sense thee may be some) just remember we must use as role models, those who have lived and are fully living, the Christian principles especially in regards to how they have treated others. To find such individuals, look where there are or have been Christians who have assisted others without regard to their faith or belief and have not tried or conditioned their regard, assistance, respect and treatment on being able preach to or convert others. And remember the lives of those who are from other belief-systems, cultures, religions ( or not) and who have lived just as exemplary lives as these other role-models.


NO one can convince me that usage of this mind assault technology is part of ANY civilized religious practices. And if anyone wants to build a religious practice around this technology, we are ALL protected from such abuses under the Constitutions of our Western democratic civilization!

I am sure no one takes their rights as BS . For psychological and other reasons we ALL HAVE TO DO THIS!


I am sure no one takes their rights as BS . For psychological and other reasons we ALL HAVE TO DO THIS! This in history-in-our-face. This is what it feels like. This is what it felt like in 1776, or 1789 with the French Revolution. WE MUST step up!

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Nationalize the American Oil Industry and all Energy..!
Posted by: TJ-stars4peace on Oct 5, 2007 8:33 AM   
Current rating: 1    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
It is the solution to all this bull shit..!

The state run and owned Oil industries are doing the best and would cut our costs by 30-40% and also give us $50-60 Billion per year for alternative energy new technologies and create and economic boom that would benefit every American not just the top 1%..

This is the solution..

The American Oil Industry is not in the business of putting itself out of business..!

See what I mean...?

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chrisand barb
Posted by: chrisbarb on Oct 5, 2007 9:15 AM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Methane from Hydropower? I think that this writer has smoked to much methane or just needs to have a better scientific questioning attitude before jumping to conclusions.
I have worked at both Coal and Hydro plants. Coal plants have all that CO2 going up the stack from burning coal AND all the same methane production from the water they use to condense the steam that runs their turbines. The methane production due to the cooling water in a coal palnt is just not measured because it is so small compared to the rest of the polution.

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This article is textbook right-wing reactionary troll-fodder
Posted by: gonzoyak on Oct 5, 2007 9:42 AM   
Current rating: 3    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Seriously, stuff like this makes it much harder for environmentalists to gain a foothold in the consciousness of the general public, since right-wing Dispensationalists and their Big Business cohorts can use it as evidence that enviros are against ANY sort of development, technology, energy generation, etc. and are therefore too far beyond the fringe to be taken seriously in discussions of development and energy policy. Of all the things to attack, why hydro-power? Sure, it's not perfectly carbon-neutral, but what on earth (other than plant life) is? I don't even need to look at numbers to know that hydro dams are better choice for the atmosphere than fossil fuel generation - if we're down to de-bunking even the best clean(er) alternatives to fossil fuels, what's left? Nothing? Taking a position against a very clean and relatively innocuous energy alternative like hydro-power just lends credence to the right-wing nutjob claim that greens want to us to live in the stone age rather than see humans progress economically and technologically. I fully support arguments for stewardship of our natural resources, but any preposition not based primarily on concern for the human environment (as opposed to downgrading human concerns in favor of obscure species, unspoiled wilds, & dumb animals a la PETA etc.) is unlikely to gain sufficient popular traction to create a broader mainstream movement. To the author, activists & Alternet editors: Please re-focus your efforts and arguments in directions that are not completely incompatible with ideas of human progress and development. We can do things right, or at least much better, but not while environmentalism is relegated to the radical fringes of our social debate. In other words, instead of finding fault with nitpicking litanies condemning even much lesser evils than the ones extant on the dominant paradigm, please grow up, join the real world, come sit at the Big People Table and help figure this mess out. Note to the Kennebunkport Kennedies who are screaming "NIMBY!" at the prospect of wind farms spoiling their ocean views: This means you too.

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Other Environmental Problems
Posted by: Jeff Hoffman on Oct 5, 2007 12:45 PM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
This obsession with global warming has got to stop! While it might be the biggest environmental problem, it is far from the only one. Problems like ecosystem destruction, human-caused species extinction, and human overpopulation are also extremely important environmental problems. This essay is a perfect example of why we should not be myopically focusing on global warming to the exclusion of other environmental problems. Dam(n)s cause other serious problems aside from their contribution to global warming and should not be advocated by environmentalists under any circumstances. The myopic obsession with global warming has also led to former environmentalists -- who are now nothing but nuclear industry shills -- using their former enviro credentials to advocate for nuclear power.

Even if all human-caused greenhouse gas emissions were eliminated immediately, humans would still be causing massive environmental destruction. We need to account for all environmental and ecological harm in everything we advocate and write. If we did so, articles like this one would not be necessary, because the immense harm caused by things like dam(n)s would already be loudly communicated to the public.

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Hydropower is clean and renewable
Posted by: RAMC on Oct 6, 2007 2:55 PM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
I don't know where people get their facts. This nonsense is perpetuated by a media that wants to find something, anything wrong with hydropower. They continually quote McCully as if he's an expert. He is an expert at one thing, falsifying facts. He has taken a few examples of dams located in the tropics and extrapolated that information to all dams. His facts are wrong. The University of Sydney, Australia completed a report in 2006 titled "Life-Cycle Energy Balance and Greenhouse Gas Emissions of Nuclear Energy in Australia". While the focus was mainly on Nuclear power, the report provided some recent data on all forms of energy production. Here's a summary of the results (note that hydropower has the lowest greenhouse gas emissions):
"A comparable analysis has been undertaken for a number of conventional fossil-fuel and renewable electricity technologies. As with the methodology for the nuclear case, a range of literature values and current estimates have been used to examine the performance of these technologies in an Australian context, assuming new capacity is installed at close to world’s best practice. These results, together with a summary of the nuclear energy results, are presented in the table below. The figures in parentheses represent the likely range of values. It is clear from the results that the fossil-fired technologies have significantly higher energy and greenhouse intensities than the other technologies."
Electricity technology Energy intensity
(kWhth/kWhel)
Greenhouse gas intensity
(g CO2-e/kWhel)
Light water reactors 0.18 (0.16 – 0.40) 60 (10 – 130)
Heavy water reactors 0.20 (0.18 – 0.35) 65 (10 – 120)
Black coal (new subcritical) 2.85 (2.70 – 3.17) 941 (843 – 1171)
Black coal (supercritical) 2.62 (2.48 – 2.84) 863 (774 – 1046)
Brown coal (new subcritical) 3.46 (3.31 – 4.06) 1175 (1011 – 1506)
Natural gas (open cycle) 3.05 (2.81 – 3.46) 751 (627 – 891)
Natural gas (combined cycle) 2.35 (2.20 – 2.57) 577 (491 – 655)
Wind turbines 0.066 (0.041 – 0.12) 21 (13 – 40)
Photovoltaics 0.33 (0.16 – 0.67) 106 (53 – 217)
Hydroelectricity (run-of-river) 0.046 (0.020 – 0.137) 15 (6.5 – 44)
Read the full report and get some accurate facts.

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Methane??
Posted by: gellero on Oct 6, 2007 5:09 PM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
The methane fart of cows is more significant than hydroelectric dams. If you are bothered by methane, don't eat beef. This article is very weak scientifically, not much different than what's in the mass media. Pablum for the masses and the fools......

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This doesn't make sense
Posted by: Ambrose Pare on Oct 7, 2007 7:55 PM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
This article doesn't make any sense.
I live near Niagara Falls, which has massive hydro-electric stations. They have served us perfectly for over one hundred years. These have a long, successful history. The only reason its not used everywhere is most places don't have the water required.

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This author is naive
Posted by: robchapman on Oct 8, 2007 8:00 AM   
Current rating: 1    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
The point that others have made that nothing is really clean bears repeating.

How much MORE CARBON would be emitted from coal fire plants put on line to replace the hydro-power is the real question.

Intuitively, it must be clear that water running over a dam is less environmentally damaging than a coal burning turbine.

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Phantom loads are 20% of our power usage
Posted by: robchapman on Oct 8, 2007 8:08 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Conservation is the only clean choice in energy policy.

If one doesn't use electricity, there is no need to generate it.

Twenty percent of the energy consumed in the typical American household is used to power phantom loads.

A phantom load is power consumed by an unused appliance.
The green or amber light on monitor left on when a computer is off uses two watts overnight.

The clock on the microwave is another example of a phantom load, it keeps pulling power even though no ever looks at it.

By turning off the power strips one can control phantom loads.

TVs often have batteries to run their clocks while they are off, so one can unplug the TV and still keep it scheduled to record. A battery powered switch can bring it back on when needed to record.

Reducing phantom loads is potentially a big savings, and who wants to pay to power a device that no one is using?

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well, there is a better way to do this
Posted by: truthmachine on Oct 8, 2007 4:54 PM   
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There exists a new way of generating hydroelectric power that does not require the damming of rivers. Check it out:
http://freeenergynews.com/Directory/Hydro/index.html. Go to the second article- the one about the "underwater kite foundation" to see what I'm talking about. While you're there, scroll further down and you will see plans to extract and burn the methane that builds up in the water behind dams.

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dams are one thing
Posted by: weatherking on Oct 8, 2007 9:39 PM   
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but concrete is another. I have been shown that concrete production is also a major production of CO2
. I think there may be a safer way to use water POWER that benefits both humans and wildlife. It's just a shot but I think that coexistence is not just a word.

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read this
Posted by: weatherking on Oct 8, 2007 9:54 PM   
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http://www.treehugger.com/files/2006/11/concrete_can_t1.php

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Dams are bad, eh?
Posted by: Urgelt on Oct 9, 2007 12:57 AM   
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This is an hypothesis, not a foregone conclusion. I agree it needs to be further studied, but I'm skeptical.

Incidently, demand for electricity is going to go up, a lot, during this century. Demand for petroleum will fall, probably faster than supplies fall, starting in only a few years. Why? Batteries. No-one really knows what the theoretical upper limits are for energy storage in batteries, but everyone agrees it's staggeringly more than anything we've yet seen. R&D for batteries is hot now, for good reason.

It's hot because electric cars will provide a vast new market for batteries that did not exist before. But it's going to, and battery manufacturers know it. Competition for that market space is intensifying fast.

The energy contained in a gallon of gasoline is fixed. I think somewhere around 2015, give or take a few years, an equivalent weight/volume of batteries will store more energy than can be stored in a tank of gasoline. Beyond then, energy densities in batteries will only get better.

Electric cars are coming, folks, and the unimagineable will become commonplace - driving your car 3000 miles before recharging, for example. Who will need gas stations then?

Our intensifying reliance on technology, the coming boom in electric cars, and the industrialization of the third world will propel electricity consumption world-wide to new heights - over the course of this century, orders of magnitude more than we produce today.

And it all has to come from somewhere - hopefully without advancing CO2 or other greenhouse gases to the point of catastrophe.

The dam question is important, but it's a small piece of the puzzle we have to solve. In the US, the best, most productive dam sites have pretty much been used. At some not-distant point, building more dams will become a matter of diminishing returns.

By contrast, wind, solar, geothermal, ocean kinetic, and ocean thermal systems appear to be virtually unlimited. Which technology will turn out to be most useful in an economic sense will depend on how the technologies evolve.

Nuclear isn't all that awful, either. Yeah, we don't know what to do with the waste. That needs a solution. And there are very low risks that a nuclear plant might release some radiation. The risks are local, however, and the energy is pretty green and, cost-wise, darned near competitive with coal. More nuclear power plants is probably a smart investment; I think we should grit our teeth and build more, at least in the near term, until the less mature technologies deliver cheaper, safer energy.

One thing is plain as the nose on my face. We need to seriously ramp up electricity generation and get away from burning fuels of any kind. Including coal, ethanol, gasoline, natural gas, wood, leaves, anything that burns. Our energy policy needs a new direction. Fuels that have to be burned need to be taxed gradually into the dirt. Green energy needs to be incentivized until economies of scale and technology development can deliver it cheaper than coal.

And we'll have to keep an eye on methane, too. There are too many cows belching and farting all over the world, and it would be smart to get a handle on this dam question.

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