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Environment

Is Fear About Climate Change Causing a Nuclear Renaissance?

By Jim Motavalli, E Magazine. Posted July 9, 2007.


Some prominent environmentalists are urging that we reconsider nuclear power. But they have been met with resistance from many who believe nuclear power never will be a solution to global warming.
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Sitting in the belly of the beast -- Dominion's 2,000-megawatt Millstone nuclear power plant in Waterford, Connecticut -- the company's chief nuclear officer, Dave Christian, seems an unlikely environmentalist. But he says concern about climate change is what got him involved in the peaceful pursuit of the atom in the first place.

"I started studying climate science in the 1970s after reading a book [published in 1974] entitled Technology, Society and Man by Richard C. Dorf," Christian says. "It was a very thoughtful study of the feedback mechanisms that go into global warming."

Dominion is the kind of big power player that has long had an antagonistic relationship with the environmental movement. In addition to Millstone Units 2 and 3 (Unit 1 was shut down in 1998), the $45 billion company operates two nukes in Virginia, owns 7,900 miles of interstate natural gas pipelines, 6,000 miles of electrical transmission lines and 965 billion cubic feet of underground natural gas storage.

The case for Dominion as a friend of the Earth is based on a few simple facts: It generates 45 percent of Connecticut's electricity and 30 percent of Virginia's without taking a huge toll in smokestack-emitted global warming gas.

In fact, there are no smokestacks, because (aside from the occasional release of radioactive material) the only thing nuclear power plants vent is steam. What's more, in contrast to the modest current capacity of wind and solar power, nukes can produce very large amounts of electricity -- enough to counter global warming by taking highly polluting coal-burning plants offline even as electricity demand increases.

Nuclear advocates will be the first to tell you that their U.S. plants avoid the emission of almost 700 metric tons of carbon dioxide annually. Worldwide, it's two billion metric tons. Given this reality, some prominent environmentalists have signaled a cautious détente with the nuclear power industry.

While stopping short of endorsing the Bush Administration's push for hundreds of new nukes in the U.S., they say that nuclear power merits reconsideration. But they're being met by equally powerful arguments from the scientific community that nuclear power has never been and never will be a solution to global warming.

The Big Push

As worldwide emissions soar, people wait for a white knight. Newsweek columnist Robert J. Samuelson wrote recently, "We Americans want it all: endless and secure energy supplies; low prices; no pollution; less global warming; no new power plants (or oil and gas drilling, either) near people or pristine places. This is a wonderful wish list, whose only shortcoming is the minor inconvenience of massive inconsistency."

Growing awareness of this inconsistency makes it difficult to dismiss the technology out of hand.

Nuclear power has already won some powerful allies in the environmental community. Fred Krupp of Environmental Defense says, "We should all keep an open mind about nuclear power." Jared Diamond, best-selling author of Collapse, says, "To deal with our energy problems we need everything available to us, including nuclear power," which should be "done carefully, like they do in France, where there have been no accidents."

To which Stewart Brand, another apostate green who founded The Whole Earth Catalog and Whole Earth Review, adds, "The only technology ready to fill the gap and stop the carbon dioxide loading of the atmosphere is nuclear power." James Lovelock, originator of the Gaia theory about the planet's self-regulating systems, has called for, to quote The Independent, "a massive and immediate expansion of nuclear power." Actor Paul Newman visited New York's Indian Point plant and praised its climate role. In many cases, these environmentalists see nuclear as only a temporary fix.

There's no questioning the credentials of these environmental leaders, but other nuclear cheerleaders are suspect. For instance, Greenpeace co-founder Patrick Moore has been widely quoted supporting nukes, but he left Greenpeace many years ago, turned 180 degrees, and has supported many anti-environmental initiatives. He is now the co-chair (with former Environmental Protection Agency Secretary Christine Todd Whitman) of an industry-funded initiative called the Clean and Safe Energy Coalition. Not all the newspapers and magazines printing his commentaries have noted that he's on the payroll.

The industry is moving ahead with its attempt to revive commercial nuclear power, but it's unlikely to happen quickly. Dave Christian of Dominion says that although 30 new nuclear power plant licenses are pending, the first of these probably won't be online until 2015 or 2016. "The success of the industry moving forward depends on how these first units work out," he says.

Christian acknowledges that the chance of some of those license applications succeeding is only five percent. "They're taking a leap of faith," he says. It may be that the funding issue alone derails the nuclear push: A Standard and Poor's report last year priced nuclear at $1,500 per kilowatt -- twice the cost of a new coal plant. And cost overruns, it said, "are highly probable." The base price for a plant is $3 billion today.


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Jim Motavalli is the editor of E Magazine.

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View:
Not A Silver Bullet... -
Posted by: RoffleTheWaffle on Jul 9, 2007 1:03 AM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Nuclear power may be part of the solution to global warming, but it's no silver bullet. Nothing is.

Let's look at how nuclear reactors have come along. Advanced nuclear reactor designs such as the Integral Fast Reactor could overcome many of the limitations, drawbacks, and hazards of modern nuclear reactors while increasing their efficiency and output. The design mentioned could even be used to consume radioactive waste products from other reactors as a form of fuel, reducing the amount and severity of the waste produced. Technologies like this are great, and could make future nuclear plants much safer while extending the nuclear fuel supply by a factor of almost one hundred through efficiency gains alone. The problem with over-hyping technologies like this, however, is outlined in the article. In order to make a difference in our climate through nuclear power alone, we'd need thousands of reactors like these built. For many reasons that just can't work.

The 'silver bullet' approach to combating global warming is as stupid as it is unfeasible. Would building more nuclear power plants help? It would, and if advanced reactor designs like the one described above were used, the risks posed to the environment and the population would be greatly diminished. That's just one part of the solution, though. Nuclear power can't save the world. It can help, but that's all it can do. We'll need more than that if we're going to make real progress in diminishing and ultimately reversing climate change.

[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]

Price of Uranium
Posted by: ateo on Jul 9, 2007 2:43 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
I don't have time to read this entire article but I would like to mention that the price of Uranium has SKY ROCKETED in recent years.

I'm talking about rising 1000% in 4 years.

From 10 dollars a pound in 2003 to over 100 dollars a pound today.

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Power to the People
Posted by: williameon on Jul 9, 2007 4:55 AM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Stop the nuclear Blackmail.
No more Nuclear Hocus Pocus!
Billions spent on another centralized power station
Controlled by the Cor-“pirate’ War Machine!
With little white men,
Running around in little white coats.
Extracting money from your wallets!
Why do we need a middleman?
For what?
Corpirate profits?
All hail the power of greed.
Load all the nuclear waste into cannons
With a half life of a million years.
Get your sons and daughters to sit on top,
Pull the trigger and
Shoot it everywhere!
All over the world.
That’s what’s happening NOW!
Bush & Co’s idea of conservation.
What a waste!
It’s a crime.
A crime against humanity!

Imagine everyone having a wind mill or solar panel in their backyard,
Connected to the grid.
Selling all the extra energy back to the companies,
Manufacturing them.

We need to decentralize power production.
Take the energy out of the hands of the Enron’s
And give it back to the people.
Do we really need?
Dick Chaney!
Telling us what to do?

A decentralized energy production system.
Is the answer.
Energy produced at point of consumption.
Millions of wind mills and solar panels.
Power to the people.

Spend those billions on clean renewable energy.
Conserve!
Effect higher efficiency standards.
This benefits all of the people,
All of the time.
Our myopic economic system,
Run by greedy psychopaths!
Is a failure.
Or haven’t you noticed?
It benefits the few
At the cost of the many.
It is passé.
It is over.

We are witnessing the death throws of
Greedy Cor-“pirate” Dinosaurs.
Left over from the Fossil Fuel age.
Frozen in time.
Fossils of a bygone age.
Trying to perpetuate their monopoly.
Beyond the point of extinction.
At gun point.

We need a decentralized system that stops wasting energy transporting goods all over the world.
Everything should be point of source.
Local food production.
Local manufacturing.
Local energy production.
Stop the Corpirates and help free the world.

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» RE: Power to the People Posted by: RemyC
» RE: Power to the People Posted by: WitchyNy
Francis
Posted by: Francis on Jul 9, 2007 4:56 AM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
This issue illustrates more than most others the critical need for public education. One could call it the perfect political storm. The stakes are very high, the hazards extreme, the money to be made by industry insiders and their lobbyists and other paid political henchmen, substantial enough to sell out future members of the human race, and the science and engineering behind it all, a tad more complicated than an Adam Sandler movie.

There exists an army of people quietly pushing for nuclear energy revival despite the unsolved problems of hazardous waste disposal and the exhorbitant developmental and operational costs to taxpayers. Concomitantly, they contribute to a neglect of the push to develop more friendly forms of energy. The key incentive from the point of view of proponents is the invisible socialization of costs, which are otherwise prohibitive, and the unsurprising privatization of profits. Taxpayers will be called upon to subsidize much of the developmental costs thus enriching the profits to the developers and owners, rendering the enormously expensive process "cost effective". Were it not for this bit of financial legerdemain, the developers would walk away from it.

Most significant is the permanent hazard to the environment posed by the waste products of this process. The earth is not a stable environment over long stretches of time. Faults can develop in the earth's crust over time and underground water courses can find their way into and out of any and all nooks and crannies, carrying away the deadly toxic materials stored in shifting and crumbling vaults. This remains an extremely dangerous problem for millions of years.

The rush to capitalize upon the amnesia of Americans (Bhopal, Love Canal)is a cynical corporatist ploy brought to you by the same kinds of people who furtively campaigned against your understanding of the threat posed by global warming. Every spokesperson favoring nuclear energy is an accomplice in this dangerous fraud, witting or otherwise.

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» RE: Francis Posted by: daw13
» Public Education Posted by: suprmark
» RE: Public Education Posted by: Francis
» RE: Public Education Posted by: suprmark
Great....
Posted by: JoshuaLudd on Jul 9, 2007 7:21 AM   
Current rating: 4    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
... and when Yucca Mountain is full we can just dig another big hole and bury lots of waste that is obscenely dangerous for thousands upon thousands of years.

Technofixes will not work. End of story.

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» Nine Posted by: Joshua Holland
» My vacation is ruined! Posted by: suprmark
German nuclear phase out
Posted by: TominAms on Jul 9, 2007 7:34 AM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
German Chancellor Merkel recently confirmed that the german nukes phase out remains - despite pressure from nuclear companies who only make money out of it becasue they are massively subsidised by the taxpayer. If there is a disaster again the tax payer pays. We even pay the massive clean up costs of decomissioning a nuclear plant.

Despite all the industry spin of a nuclear comeback not many plants are being built. The supposed flagship new reactor in Europe, being built in Finland is already 700 million Euros over budget, 18 months behind schedule and failed multiple saftey tests. No doubt the Finnish tax payers will be footing most of the ever expanding bill for the new plant.

Governments who waste billions on subsidising nuclear power then claim they have no money spend on real solutions like renewable power and decentralised sustainable power generation which is better for us and the planet but not so good for short term dirty energy company profits.

Dirty nuclear power belongs in the past

Tom
Greenpeace

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» Swedish nuclear phase out stops Posted by: Swedish liberal
proofreading
Posted by: wildeyes on Jul 9, 2007 8:41 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
the article isn't bad, but there are obvious overlooks in editing -- quotes and whole paragraphs are repeated. it's a bit odd

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Big Oil, Coal, Nuclear would never have dominated if only
Posted by: maxpayne on Jul 9, 2007 8:50 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
the ban on INDUSTRIAL HEMP were overturned. Hemp oil replaces crude oil. Likewise, hemp charcoal generates far more electricity than either coal or nuclear. In addition, there are no side effects such as global warming due to dangerous chemicals.

P.S.: Why is Alternet allowing the rightwing "Ad Council" to advertise on its site ?!?

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A simple solution - give the waste to the shareholders
Posted by: smendler on Jul 9, 2007 9:53 AM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
I'd say it's obvious - nuclear waste should be stored at the homes of the shareholders who profit from nuclear power. Distributed in small amounts among thousands of people, it would be tougher for terrorists to hijack any appreciable amount -- plus you could generate a little heat for your backyard grill with it, and irradiate your steaks at the same time! What's not to like?

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» hmm... tarrytown Posted by: RemyC
Taking a closer look at the nuclear cheerleaders
Posted by: eddie torres on Jul 9, 2007 9:59 AM   
Current rating: 3    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Motavalli mentions Patrick Moore, Greenpeace co-founder, and the fact that he now works for the nuclear industry-funded Clean and Safe Energy Coalition with Christine Todd Whitman.

This is a three-card-monty corporate shell game played by deep-pocket elites who can defy the laws of physics with an avalanche of legal letterhead paperwork - like stuffing 16,000 "companies" into a single Cayman Island office building.

An article by Diane Farsetta ("How Reporters Learned to Stop Worrying and Love Nuclear Front Groups") goes into great detail on how the nuclear industry funds the PR machine that is currently promoting a return to nuclear plant construction.

It's an extensive web of PR firms like Hill & Knowlton and Burson-Marsteller, information wholesalers like Scripps Howard News Service and O'Dwyer's PR Daily, and nonprofit front groups like Students for Nuclear Power, Coalition Against Shutting Down Vermont's Electricity Options, and Moore's Clean and Safe Energy Coalition.

The PR machine has bet on the complacency of news outlets like the San Francisco Chronicle, the Boston Herald, the Baltimore Sun, the Richmond Times-Dispatch, the Rocky Mountain News, the New York Times, and CBS News. They have all carried Patrick Moore's pro-nuke articles but describe him "...as either a Greenpeace founder or an environmentalist, without mentioning that he is also a paid spokesman for the nuclear industry."

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CORRECTION
Posted by: AsteroidMiner on Jul 9, 2007 11:12 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Jim Motavalli, it is 700 MILLION metric tons of carbon
dioxide annually, NOT "700 metric tons of carbon dioxide
annually" that the nuclear plants in the US alone avoid
putting into the air.
The COAL FIRED equivalent would also put 700 tons of
Uranium, 1723 tons of Thorium, etc. into the air. Yes, coal
contains uranium, and when you burn coal, uranium goes
up the smokestack. At least 73 elements found in coal
fired plant emissions are distributed in millions of pounds of
stack emissions each year. They include:
Aluminum Chromium Molybdenum
Antimony Cobalt Nickel
Arsenic Copper Selenium
Barium Fluorine Silver
Beryllium Iron Sulfur
Boron Lead Titanium
Cadmium Magnesium Uranium
Calcium Manganese Vanadium
Chlorine Mercury Zinc
Source:
http://www.ornl.gov/ORNLReview/rev26-34/text/coalmain.html

Oak Ridge National Laboratory REVIEW
Volume 26 Numbers Three and Four, 1993

Coal Combustion: Nuclear Resource or Danger?
Alex Gabbard

If the safety level of nuclear power plants were
LOWERED to the same level as coal-fired power plants,
the resulting [nuclear] electricity would be very cheap
indeed and nuclear power would be very efficient.
I have NO connection with the nuclear power industry.

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» Planning to take over the universe Posted by: eddie torres
Chernobyl
Posted by: AsteroidMiner on Jul 9, 2007 11:38 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
The reactor that had the accident at Chernobyl was very
out-of-date (1st generation) design that has to be precisely
controlled to prevent cooling water from boiling. Water
carries away heat and moderates far better than bubbles,
and as bubbles form in water, the reactor goes increasingly
unstable. What caused Chernobyl to blow its top was
residual water in the core suddenly going to high pressure
steam and erupting into a steam explosion. Since the
building top was simply resting by its weight on the walls,
not a containment vessel at all, the steam explosion burped
the top off its position allowing outside air in, subsequently
igniting a carbon fire. The United States and other
Western countries DO NOT now build and do not now
posses or operate ANY reactors of such primitive design.
Nor do we allow containment buildings to have easily
removable tops. Containment buildings in the Western
hemisphere are required to be pressure vessels.
The Chernobyl accident released only 200 tons of
radioactive material, as much as a coal-fired power plant
would release in 7 years and 5 months. The Chernobyl
accident had a shorter "stack" than coal-fired power plants.
The radioactive material was released in a short time at
ground level. That is why the Chernobyl accident had
impact. Only 52 people died at Chernobyl , mostly fire
fighters, a hazardous job in any case. The Three Mile
Island incident did NOT release a noticeable amount of
radiation into its neighborhood, it was just expensive to
clean up the inside of the reactor. Nobody died and
nobody was injured at Three Mile Island.
I have NO connection with the nuclear power industry.

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» A little more embellishment Posted by: eddie torres
Nuclear waste paranoia
Posted by: AsteroidMiner on Jul 9, 2007 1:05 PM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
See the December 2005 issue of Scientific American article
on a new type of nuclear reactor that consumes the nuclear
"waste" as fuel.
Americans are paranoid about all things nuclear. NMR
[Nuclear Magnetic Resonance] had to be renamed MRI
[Magnetic Resonance Imaging] to get sick people into the
scanner. Apparently, the average American doesn't know
that all matter, including people, is made of atoms and that
atoms have nuclei. The NMR/MRI machine aligns the
spins of the nuclei in the atoms in the patient using a big
magnet. Since different atoms have different nuclear spin
resonances, the NMR/MRI machine can see one element at
a time. I have no idea what the sick sick patients were
thinking.

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More flaws in the article
Posted by: AsteroidMiner on Jul 9, 2007 2:03 PM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
"A serious accident at one of Indian Point's two working
reactors could cause 50,000 early fatalities." Nonsense.
Did you know that enough URANIUM goes up the
smokestack of a coal-fired power plant to Fully fuel a
nuclear power plant with the same output? See:
http://www.ornl.gov/ORNLReview/rev26-34/text/coalmain.html

"The uranium supply is also an issue. On the spot market,
uranium prices have soared as existing reactors have
worked through supplies from mothballed plants. Demand
is projected to exceed supply and push prices higher. The
shortfall in uranium mining can be at least partly made up in
uranium enrichment (an outgrowth of atomic bomb
development), but capacity is limited there, too."
Nonsense. Just catch the smoke from coal fired power
plants and use the ash as ore. If breeding of thorium into
uranium and using plutonium as fuel are allowed, enough
uranium and thorium go up the smokestack of one coal
fired power plant to fully fuel 500 nuclear power plants of
the same size.

"Pebble bed reactors, for instance, are now in the planning
stages in China and South Africa, and supporters say a
meltdown is nearly impossible with that design. "
Meltdown is IMPOSSIBLE, not nearly impossible for a
pebble bed reactor. Coolant [water] flow is required to
turn the reaction on. No water flow, no reaction.

I have never worked for the nuclear power industry. I
have no financial interest in the nuclear power industry. I
am not in any way connected with the nuclear power
industry.

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» "Just catch the smoke..." Posted by: eddie torres
» RE: "Just catch the smoke..." Posted by: Joshua Holland
» RE: "Just catch the smoke..." Posted by: AsteroidMiner
Al Qaeda operatives gave up on that
Posted by: AsteroidMiner on Jul 9, 2007 2:18 PM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
"Al Qaeda operatives have, by their own admission,
considered attacking nuclear facilities. And according to
Riverkeeper, only 19 percent of Indian Point guards think
they can protect the facility from a conventional assault, let
alone a suicidal mission."
Why terrorists can't rob radioactive materials from
nuclear reactors
Suppose a gang of terrorists tries to do a bank robbery type
of operation against a nuclear reactor. What problems do
they encounter that they wouldn't when robbing a bank?
1. There is no nuclear fuel within reach of any human.
2. The fuel is inside a containment building that is harder
to penetrate than a bank vault.
3. The fuel is inside a machine that was not made for
human access.
4. The fuel is not like money in several ways:
a. The fuel is radioactive enough to kill the robbers
immediately.
b. The fuel is far too heavy for the robbers to carry.
c. The fuel is sealed in steel capsules inside steel rods
inside the reactor core inside a coolant system, etc.
d. the temperature of the fuel is more than hot enough to
burn them.
e. If they got the fuel out, they would have to carry it in
lead containers that would weigh many tons.
f. etc.

To get fuel out, the reactor must first be shut down. The
robbers don't know how. The reactor must be allowed to
cool. Cooling takes time, like days. The fuel can only be
removed by a robot. The robot may not be present. The
robbers don't know how to operate the robot. The robbers
don't have a way to move fuel rods out of the containment
building. The robbers would have to have a big truck with
a lead container to carry the fuel in. Big trucks are not
good getaway vehicles, especially when heavily loaded.
IF the robbers knew how to do all of the required jobs, it
would still take them weeks to rob a reactor. Do you think
the cops and the army are going to give them weeks? The
result of such an attempted robbery would be robbers killed
by bullets.

Terrorists cannot cause a meltdown of our newest
[pebble bed] nuclear reactors because shutdown is
accomplished by a law of nature rather than by control
rods. Stopping coolant flow removes the space between
fuel pellets. The space between fuel pellets must be filled
with moving water. The water is the moderator to slow
down the neutrons so that the reaction can take place. No
coolant flow, no reaction.
As if terrorists could operate a reactor anyway!

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» Winner! Posted by: eddie torres
» RE: Winner! Posted by: Joshua Holland
» If this is the kind of logic... Posted by: eddie torres
Alex Matthiessen
Posted by: AsteroidMiner on Jul 9, 2007 2:38 PM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
"Alex Matthiessen, director of Hudson Riverkeeper,
declares, "In the post-9/11 era, nuclear power plants pose
an unacceptable risk." He points out that NRC studies
conclude that a serious accident at one of Indian Point's
two working reactors could cause 50,000 early fatalities."
Nonsense. Did you know that you get 100 times as
much radiation from a coal-fired power plant as from a
nuclear power plant?
Have you ever heard of background radiation? The natural
background radiation that has been there since the
beginning of time is 1000 times what you get from a
nuclear power plant or 10 times what you get from a coal
fired power plant. See:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Background_radiation
or
http://www.unscear.org/unscear/en/publications/2000_1.html
If the safety level of nuclear power plants were
LOWERED to the same level as coal-fired power plants,
the resulting [nuclear] electricity would be very cheap
indeed and nuclear power would be very efficient. Nuclear
power is expensive only because of coal company
propaganda that has driven Americans paranoid on all
things nuclear.
I have NO connection with the nuclear power industry.
It is just that I would rather not go extinct because of global
warming.
The Existential Risk that is virtually certain to
happen is the same as the End Permian mass extinction:
Hydrogen Sulfide. It is possible to avoid it, but the power
of wealth must be overcome. Coal is a $100 Billion [US]
industry in the US alone.
download from:
http://www.sciam.com/article.cfm?articleID=00037A5D-
A938-150E-A93883414B7F0000&sc=I100322
from the October 2006 issue of Scientific American
Article: "Impact from the Deep"
"Strangling heat and gases emanating from the earth and
sea, not asteroids, most likely caused several ancient mass
extinctions. Could the same killer-greenhouse conditions
build once again? "
By Peter D. Ward
The last paragraph of the article says:
"The so-called thermal extinction at the end of the
Paleocene began when atmospheric CO2 was just under
1,000 parts per million (ppm). At the end of the Triassic,
CO2 was just above 1,000 ppm. Today with CO2 around
385 ppm, it seems we are still safe. But with atmospheric
carbon climbing at an annual rate of 2 ppm and expected to
accelerate to 3 ppm, levels could approach 900 ppm by the
end of the next century, and conditions that bring about the
beginnings of ocean anoxia may be in place. How soon
after that could there be a new greenhouse extinction? That
is something our society should never find out."
The hydrogen sulfide will finally put an end to the mining of
coal. Nuclear power is the safest available.

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» No points for recycling Posted by: eddie torres
» RE: No points for recycling Posted by: AsteroidMiner
Al Gore's Live Earth Pledge
Posted by: AsteroidMiner on Jul 9, 2007 2:46 PM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Al Gore's Live Earth Pledge has a fatal flaw: "the capacity
to safely trap and store the CO2." There is no safe way to
confine trillions of tons of CO2 at high pressure. It WILL
leak out and suffocate millions of people. CO2 is denser
than air and displaces air at ground level. CO2 has caused
suffocation in Africa. See:
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/africa/1155057.stm

"Cameroon's 'killer lake' degassed"
"More than 1,700 people died after deadly gases spewed
from Lake Nyos 15 years ago. "
"In August 1986, the lake released a cloud of carbon
dioxide which hugged the ground and flowed down
surrounding valleys to suffocate thousands of local villagers
and animals.

The rare phenomenon also occurred at Lake Monoun in the
same volcanic zone two years earlier killing 34 people. "

The CO2 storage facilities proposed by Al Gore, besides
being prone to leak, will be a target for terrorists. A
terrorist has only to cause a leak to kill more people than a
nuclear bomb would. Leaks are very easy to cause in high
pressure containers. CO2 storage is a time bomb.

Americans are paranoid about all things nuclear. NMR had
to be renamed MRI to get sick people into the scanner.
Perhaps somebody's response is to let the millions die in the
carbon dioxide so that the survivors will listen to reason?
Nuclear power is the safest kind. Killing millions of
people with CO2 is a sick, genocidal way to end the
paranoia over all things nuclear. I have no financial
interest in nuclear power and no connection with the
nuclear power industry.

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» RE: Al Gore's Live Earth Pledge Posted by: AsteroidMiner
Even wind turbines are not risk free
Posted by: AsteroidMiner on Jul 9, 2007 3:03 PM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Downloaded from:
http://www.alternet.org/environment/54682/?page=5

"Health, hazard, and quality of life near wind power
installations How Close is Too Close?
Nina Pierpont, MD, PhD*
March 1, 2005
A nacelle (generator and gearbox) weighing up to 60 tons
atop a 265 ft. metal tower, equipped with 135 ft. blades, is a
significant hazard to people, livestock, buildings, and traffic
within a radius equal to the height of the structure (400 ft)
and beyond. In Germany in 2003, in high storm winds, the
brakes on a wind turbine failed and the blades spun out of
control. A blade struck the tower and the entire nacelle flew
off the tower. The blades and other parts landed as far as
1650 ft (0.31 mile) from the base of the tower (Note that all
turbines discussed in this article are "upwind," three-bladed,
industrial-sized turbines. "Downwind" turbines have not
been built since the 1980's.) Given the date, this turbine
was probably smaller than the ones proposed for current
construction, and thus could not throw pieces as far. This
distance is nearly identical to calculations of ice throw from
turbines with 100 ft blades rotating 20 times per minute
(1680 ft)"

And the above is only the so-called tip of the iceberg. If
interested, just google "dangers of wind turbines" - there's
plenty of sites to choose from to learn about the dangers.
The noise alone is inescapable - like water torture.

I watched the 3 YouTube films, "Voices of Tug Hill", and
it's appalling. Greed has no boundaries, no conscience, no
morals, no standards"

No source of energy is risk free, but the poverty caused by
not having energy is a bigger killer.

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» It's exactly like water torture... Posted by: eddie torres
Nuclear Hogwash
Posted by: davechannon on Jul 10, 2007 5:49 AM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
The proposed nuclear "solution" would cost many trillions of dollars and take 40 or more years to build. It can't work. Even if the radiation could be contained, the mining and construction would still add greatly to global warming and pollution. Conservation, solar, wind and other renewables are the only sane, affordable solutions. NO NUKES!

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» RE: Nuclear Hogwash Posted by: mjabele
An essay in Orion you all may enjoy, and another that's a bit off topic.
Posted by: parmenicleitus on Jul 11, 2007 6:57 PM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Reasons Not to Glow by Rebecca Solnit:

http://www.orionmagazine.org/index.php/articles/article/316/

In addition, I think many here on Alternet would like Bill Kaufrman's Bye, Bye Miss American Empire

http://www.orionmagazine.org/index.php/articles/article/311

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Nuclear sting exposes lack of security
Posted by: ADavies on Jul 12, 2007 9:38 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Coincidently just saw this when I went to check my mail...

Fake firm gets nuclear license in U.S. govt sting

The GAO report said its undercover agents made counterfeit copies of the license, changed the wording to remove restrictions on how much they were allowed to buy and then ordered enough radiological materials to build a dirty bomb.

The GAO, a nonpartisan investigative arm of Congress, said its investigators did not take possession of the radiological materials.

U.S. officials have warned that militant groups, including al Qaeda, could use conventional explosives and material from sources as common as hospital X-ray departments to build so-called dirty bombs that could spread radioactive waste across urban centers.

full article

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What the article left out
Posted by: ADavies on Jul 12, 2007 9:43 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Nuclear proliferation.

The spread of nuclear power increases the likelihood that more countries will develop nuclear weapons. Just look at Iran or India or Pakistan.

We influence the world by the technology we use and export. If we use nuclear, it encourages other countries to use nuclear. If we support renewable energy and energy efficiency, those technologies will improve and be used more by other countries.

What would you rather see? Countries around the world relying on wind, solar, geothermal, energy efficiency and the like? Or lots more countries with nuclear power plants?

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Nuclear is not the answer
Posted by: NumberSix on Jul 13, 2007 5:57 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
I can see a deal or so to the whole "let's go nuclear" thing, after all, coal-churning powerplants do puke CO2 in the metric square ton, not a good thing. Aging coal plants do need to be phased out, the current ones need tighter CO2 scrubbing.

But the proponents of nuke miss a few:

-A claim by a friend of mine who retired from a utility: "Three Mile Island and Pripyat clearly show it's not if, but when does the next reactor barf?" Despite the increases in safety, newer techologies to monitor the process, German engineered containment domes, an accident will happen, puking such nice stuff into our skies, dirt and water for 260,000 years...

-I have yet to see a small enough reactor that can power a small plane, helicopter, truck, car, train or other self-contained vehicle. Sorry, Star Trek is still fiction, yes.

-And nobody hits old Occam: What the hell about energy conservation, thank you? Is there a reason why every human needs a car, with a fuel-to-power ratio as low as they currently are, mmm? Is there a reason for using old, outmoded technologies that eat power? Do we really need that much power or are we just lazy asses?

I see the answer as many-faceted: Eff nukes, go wind, solar, geothermal, and for God's sake, let's get a few million cars off the roads, start conserving power, not pissing it away!

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impeachment
Posted by: gsaephanh on Jul 13, 2007 1:05 PM   
Current rating: 2    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Call in your vote TODAY for impeaching Bush and Cheney at this number: 202-225-0100

House Speaker Nancy Pelosi’s office is taking calls voting for Impeachment of Bush/Cheney at 202-225-0100. PLEASE CALL TODAY. At the toll free capitol switchboard #s below, you can also call your particular district’s congressional representative to insist that they support impeachment for Cheney. E.g., for Rep. Dennis Kucinich’s H Res 333 for Cheney; please say:

“In addition to supporting Kucinich’s bill H Res 333, I would also support a similar Impeachment Resolution against Bush, especially after the disgraceful Scooter Libby sentence “commuting” and the following issues: wiretapping, torture, numerous 9/11 intelligence misrepresentations, the continued occupation of Iraq, gross negligence during Hurrican Katrina, the Valerie Plame CIA leak, […list your other grounds…] ..”[see resolutions on tab #2 for other grounds for impeachment]).

LANIC requests that Americans call today…Not tomorrow or next week. Every call adds to the extraordinary grasswoots and nationwide movement’s pressures on House Speaker Pelosi to act now .before further innocent lives are lost in Iraq and elsewhere. Last week 28 Americans lost their lives. Over the July 4, 2007 weekend over 400 Iraqis lost their lives…

SEND MAIL TO HOUSE SPEAKER NANCY PELOSI: Attn: Nancy Pelosi, House Representative/Speaker of the House, 235 Cannon H.O.B., Washington, DC 20515 ; Pelosi’s Fax # 202 225-8259

Pelosi’s e-mail address :

Americanvoices@mail.house.gov

CC her at: sf.nancy@mail.house.gov

Please send her a pro-impeachment email and a specific call to endorse H Res 333. Note: On Saturdays/Sundays, Pelosi’s office has a comment line at which you can leave a voicemail. Your message will be transcribed and relayed to her. Please do encourage your family/friends to contact the same number. Refer them to www.bcimpeach.com for the actual telephone #s & contact info.

Find out who your Congressional representative is and call that person. For toll free numbers to your Congress rep: (800) 828 – 0498; (800) 459 – 1887; or (866) 340 – 9281. You will be connected once you name your congress person. The staff aid should take detailed notes and provided to the Congressional representative.

Final Note: Please say “I support Impeachment based on ____. I’d like to know where “[representative name]” stands on this issue.” Let’s strike while the Libby fury keeps the iron hot! Please call and Act Now!

PLEASE ALSO CONTACT THESE KEY CONGRESSIONAL REPS RE IMPEACHMENT:
Representative Capitol Phone Capitol Fax
Howard Berman 202-225-4695 202-225-3196
& 818-944-7200 818-994-1050

MAILING ADDRESS FOR BERMAN
Congressman Howard L. Berman
14546 Hamlin Street, Suite 202
Van Nuys, CA 91411

Henry Waxman 202-225-3976 202-225-4099
Loreta Sanchez 202 225-2965 202-225-5859
D. Watson 202 225-7084 202-225-2422
LindaSanchez 202 225-6676 202-226-1012
L. Solis 202 225-5464 202-225-5467
A. G. Eshoo 202 225-8104 202-225-8890
L. Roybal/Allard 202 225-1766 202-225-0350

http://www.bcimpeach.com/

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We Don't NEED it!
Posted by: WitchyNy on Jul 16, 2007 1:00 PM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Let's compare this to population. We want to keep having LOTS AND LOTS of babies. They are cute, they are fun. We LIKE babies.

When the world is over-full of babies-then what we need to do is---we need to think of ways we can squeeze in more! Bigger homes, bigger cars, better designed baby car seats and diapers--there are lots of creative ways we can have more and more babies! No one has the right to tell us we can't each have 10 babies!!!

Or we can figure out that we can only have as many babies as the world can support -with a good quality of life for everyone.

Energy is limited. It should be limited to what we actually NEED. The idea that we can all zoom around in sports cars and airplanes and power boats and dirt bikes have BIG houses and buy new things all the time and NOT HAVE TO SHARE OR GIVE UP ANY OF OUR TOYS----All we have to do is invent some way of having unliminited energy-whatever the cost!

Time to grow up world.

Another thing-I was at Mt. Saint Helen's the day she blew.
As tons of trees and rocks and water rushed downhill right towards a Nuclear Power plant-one of my favoite quotes of all time-from a Nuclear Scientist - frantically trying to get enough bulldozers to build a mud wall-----
"Who would have ever thought of VOLCANOES???"

Well fella....It is always something. No matter your I.Q. or education. Earthquakes, Tidal waves, Volcanoes. And if I were a 'terroritst' and I was going to drop a bomb-or crash a jetliner-I sure would look for a Nuclear Power plant. I am just surprised the 911 guys did not.

One more thing. Even if we invented- say- Cold Fushion-we are not ready as a species. The Greedy Rich still run everything. We still have thousands of people dying of starvation every day. We still have wars, poverty, violence, lack of education-lack of values.

Let's clean up our mess of a planet -and grow up-before we are handed unlimited energy. Please?

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Nuclear is exactly one half the solution you seek!
Posted by: dbaker on Jul 17, 2007 7:22 PM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Folks we have several interactive environmental solutions,
we all acknowledge the reality any single one action will have environmental, economic and socal effects.
We deposit a beyond comprension volume,Trillions and Trillions metric tones of sewage. This renewable resource grows with population growth.
Containing this sewage and exposing this sewage to intence radiation will generate Hydrogen Gas.
Burning this Hydrogen Gas to generate Electricity.
Replacing the Fossil Fuel Powered Electrical Generating Facilities which are the primary sources of greenhouse gasses.

We have the courage, knowledge, ability and existing specialists in all the disiplines required to acomplish this real action in short order. All that is missing is your desire to actually do something substanial. your desire to question why Nuclear must be utilized only to generate steam, not hydrogen.
Dennis Baker

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