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Can the Ruling Classes Save the World From Global Warming?
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There's some good news here. Given the risk that a climate catastrophe could hit soon and suddenly, we've got to make some dramatic changes very quickly. What CEOs and portfolio managers think and do is an urgent question; we may not have time for mass movements to develop and force elites to do the right thing. They've got to get started now, or all could be doomed.
But you've got to wonder how serious they are about doing something. Chris Giles, economics editor of the Financial Times, said at Davos that there's no evidence that CEOs and Cabinet ministers were about to make "tough decisions" to avert catastrophe.
Had I been invited to Davos, I could have earned an I Am Offset pin by paying a mere $93 to "offset" a New York to Zurich round-trip flight -- a journey that produces more than six tons of carbon emissions. About 60 percent of attendees performed this act of penance, though as A.C. Thompson and Duane Moles show in this issue, carbon offsets are a pretty dubious business. The more serious question -- is Davos-style jet-setting sustainable? -- wasn't likely to come up when consciences were assuaged by the offsets.
But maybe this is too negative. Let's savor the spreading climate consciousness among the corporate elite. Amazingly, the CEOs of the Big Three US auto companies and Toyota appeared before a Congressional committee in mid-March to endorse limits on carbon emissions -- and they failed to rise to the bait when a Republican panel member, Joe Barton, characterized the human contribution to greenhouse gas emissions as "trivial." Even ExxonMobil, the most recalcitrant of the oil companies, has a statement of concern on its website. When the auto and oil industries feel they have to talk the climate change talk, then something is happening.
A milestone in the evolution of elite opinion was last October's publication by the British government of the Stern Review, an overview of the economics of climate change, named after former World Bank chief economist Nicholas Stern. While many have (rightly) criticized the review for its excessive caution, its political contribution shouldn't be underestimated: It promoted the idea in elite discourse that there would be substantial economic costs to doing nothing about climate change. As Stern showed, it's not good for the GDP when crops fail, storms intensify, pandemics spread and coastal cities flood.
Another milestone was the creation in January of the US Climate Action Partnership (USCAP). Among the players are such noted friends of the earth as GE, DuPont, PG&E, Caterpillar and BP (which tries to be the greenest of the oil companies but is still an oil company, and one with a terrible worker-safety record at that).
Joining those firms are some of the most business-friendly environmental organizations, like Environmental Defense (ED) and the Natural Resources Defense Council (NRDC). While USCAP's manifesto calls for relatively modest reductions in greenhouse gas emissions, and seems in no hurry to get there, it is remarkable to see such blue-chip corporate names signing on to any kind of green program, even if it is a rather pale shade of green.
And then in late March yet another group formed, Investors and Business for US Climate Action, a coalition of institutional investors (including not only union and public-sector pension funds but also big private-sector names like Merrill Lynch), foundations and businesses. Among their founding documents was a letter to George W., urging him to take serious action on the climate and asking for a meeting.
All that's not to say the denialists have gone into hiding, and it's no surprise that the dead-enders at the Wall Street Journal editorial page are leading the resistance. The creation of USCAP was greeted by the Journal's Kimberley Strassel with a real screamer of a piece, denouncing the "jolly green giants" for secretly wanting to make money on carbon reduction while appearing high-minded in public.
True enough, but Strassel won't cut them an inch of slack: "At least when Big Pharma self-interestedly asks for fewer regulations, the economy benefits." Reducing greenhouse gas emissions, in WSJ-land, has no upside at all.
Aside from overt denialists, there are some important players who are MIA, such as the insurance industry. Back in the early 1990s, I attended a conference co-sponsored by that industry and Greenpeace. Greenpeace wanted to prod insurers into countering the weight of the denialist auto and oil industries. After all, the insurance companies will have to pay out larger claims as hurricanes and floods get more severe. At the time, their European counterparts, especially the reinsurance industry (which insures the insurance companies), worried aloud.
But the US insurance industry would hear none of it; it was interested only in tighter building codes, better computer modeling and inventing new financial instruments. Though they were too discreet to say it openly, their plan for climate change was either to jack up premiums or to stop writing new policies -- thus Allstate has largely pulled out of Long Island.
early fifteen years later, little has changed. The US insurance industry is mainly concerned with technicalities, while the Europeans sound alarms. A 2006 paper from the Insurance Information Institute emphasizes scientific uncertainty about the relation between climate change and storm frequency and severity, notes that there's no simple relation between storms and industry profitability, comforts readers with praise of the industry's "resilience" -- and reminds them that they can always jack up premiums in dangerous areas ("where places, things, and people are expensive to insure, insurance will be expensive").
By contrast, Swiss Re, the reinsurance giant, opened a 2002 paper on the topic by noting the necessity "to prevent global warming from accelerating to such [a] degree that humans are no longer able to adjust themselves in time," which they identified as "a task for governments and the community of states." A former consultant to the US insurance industry, who quit in disgust, told me that European insurers are "run by smart people who care about science" whose governments have been prodding them into action, while their American counterparts are "bottom-line hacks" whose government has been just fine with their indifference.
The Wall Street Journal editorialists have a point when they say that the corporate members of USCAP are better-positioned than their peers to make money from greenhouse gas reduction. GE, for example, which is busily touting its "Ecomagination" program, is poised to sell "clean coal" products, solar panels and even nuclear power plants. But short of a revolution, there's no imaginable way to reduce greenhouse gas emissions unless someone can make money off it.
It's painful for someone like me, who instinctively gravitates to the more radical position on most issues, to admit that the "better deal for business" is still a lot better than nothing. But it's worth examining the problems with their proposals, with the hope of agitating for something better. There's the simple point that Stern's and USCAP's emissions targets aren't ambitious enough. But there are also problems with their favorite strategy: cap-and-trade schemes.
These work by setting maximum emissions for polluting entities, be they individual factories or power plants or entire countries, based on historical baselines; these limits decline over time. Entities that come in under the limits are free to sell their remaining emissions rights to entities that can't make the limits.
An early version of cap-and-trade was the 1990 domestic US agreement to limit acid-rain-causing sulfur dioxide emissions by coal-burning electric utilities. Cap-and-trade was at the core of the Kyoto Protocol: Individual countries were capped and then free to sell their credits, and countries themselves were expected to develop cap-and-trade systems for their own polluters. Despite US rejection of Kyoto, the European Union established a cap-and-trade system to meet its obligations under the protocol.
The record of these models is mixed: The acid-rain-reduction agreement is seen as fairly successful; sulfur dioxide emissions are more than a third below what they would have been without the program. But SO2 emissions are mostly limited to power plants; by contrast, greenhouse gases come from millions of sources, from factories to lawn mowers, a more daunting administrative task.
The EU carbon scheme has had a less auspicious history. Launched at the beginning of 2005, some 12,000 installations were covered, responsible for about 45 percent of the Union's carbon dioxide emissions. Other greenhouse gases, and more installations, would be incorporated into the system in later phases. For the first sixteen months of the system, carbon permit prices more than tripled, only to collapse in April 2006 on the revelation that a number of countries had given their industries such generous caps that the industries were already in compliance and had no need to reduce emissions.
This is just one of the problems with cap-and-trade schemes. Consider the burden of monitoring many thousands of sources -- just what should their baseline emissions levels be, anyway? The temptation to cheat, to game the system, would be enormous. Already an entire industry has grown up around the trading system -- analysts and brokers and traders who hope to make money from the scheme but contribute not much of anything to saving the planet. Also, cap-and-trade permit prices are tremendously volatile, more so even than the stock market. Volatility makes long-term planning very difficult.
A far better approach would be to tax carbon. A carbon tax would be simple -- gasoline, coal and other fuels would be taxed based on their carbon content -- and nearly impossible to evade. It could be introduced quickly, unlike the multiyear phase-in of the complicated EU cap-and-trade system.
The tax rate could start low and then increase, to allow energy users to adjust. Unlike the market volatility of CO2 and SO2 permit prices, a carbon tax would be predictable, making it much easier for businesses and consumers to plan ahead. And as Charles Komanoff of the Carbon Tax Center argues, at least part of the proceeds of the tax could be rebated to poor and middle-income households through the income tax system, neutralizing any inequities. The unrebated balance could be used to subsidize alternative energy research and production. Given the historical successes of government funding of basic research in computing and medicine, there's every reason to believe the products of this work would be very promising.
But the corporate elite and their favorite enviros hate the thought of carbon taxes. (One exception: FPL, née Florida Power and Light, recently endorsed a carbon tax.) In a weird piece for the website Grist, ED's chief scientist, Bill Chameides, said that carbon tax advocates would give Congress a big pot of money to play with, which they'd use to subsidize their favorite technologies in pork-barrel fashion. Sounding like he was reading from GOP talking points, Chameides declared, "History has shown that the marketplace does a better job of developing new technologies, and a tax takes money out of the marketplace."
In fact, that sort of ideology ignores history, which is replete with examples of market failure and cases of state support in crucial economic and technological development. The point of a carbon tax is to raise the cost of energy, seriously, and encourage people to use less of it while developing new, carbon-free sources. And the idea that Congress wouldn't be tempted to play favorites with a massive carbon permit scheme is surreal.
That brings us to the crux of the problem: Raising the cost of energy means big changes in the way we live. Corporate-friendly enviros don't like to hear that. In an interview, NRDC's global warming czar, David Hawkins, denied that sacrifice would be necessary -- because as-yet-unrevealed technological breakthroughs will allow us to gorge on energy and everything else. The investor and business coalition speaks confidently of "win-win" changes.
But the sailing might not be so smooth. Though advocates of cap-and-trade, like Hawkins, deny this, they seem seduced by a set-and-forget appeal to the technique. If, by some currently near-unimaginable miracle, serious restrictions on greenhouse gas emissions were enacted, it might not look like win-win. Few things annoy Americans more than higher energy prices, or being forced to take the train instead of the Escalade.
For people on the left, it's hard to parse the politics of the climate issue. We're used to a world in which business interests and their favorite politicians will do the right thing only if they're forced to by popular mobilization. That's not true of the climate issue: Though there are activists seriously devoted to the cause, it's a long way from being the foremost concern of millions.
So it's tempting to look at the latest elite mobilization as something that could get a head start on avoiding catastrophe while we hope for more action from below. But you really have to wonder how serious these freshly mobilized business interests are. Can we trust them? Do we have any choice?
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Posted by: richholland on Apr 28, 2007 1:59 AM
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History learns us; in 1748 many farmers died for hunger in France, everybody knew the system didnot work but the nobility was not willing to give up anything.
Only the french revolution changed things.
1914 The Russian nobility was happy with the 1st World War;
army contracts, stop the revolutians by killing them in the battlefields.
So in Germany.
We had a global warming 15000 years ago many hunters/gatherers between the Canarian Islands and Africa and between England and the mainland had to emigrate and change lifestyle, together with the Kaukasians agruculter came.
Nowadays you see all over the world more new cars, more use of oil.
To change the economy you must change your poliyical system.
One solution ;only CEO s allowed to have cars and to fly.
A division into a big poor underclas and a small upperclass.
So in a way Mr.Bush is your perfect president and certainly not Al Gore(although he has a private Jet to save enviroment.)
Let us face it, dear backpackers flying from USA to Thailand on a schnorkeling Ecotour killing the coral, dropping empty cocacolacans.
During the second world war we had electricity some hours a daybut the RICH still had their gasoline, this is Darwinism the fittest survive
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Posted by: HughScott on Apr 28, 2007 3:02 AM
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Ten years ago, before catastrophic climate change became a topical issue, I researched global warming for a science fiction novel of mine, “The Last UFO.”
Here's what I wrote in my self-published, 122,000-word thriller:
"Unless there was a reversal of the heating trend, both polar ice caps would melt, flooding coastline communities around the world. Evidence of the trend was particularly dramatic in Antarctica where average regional temperatures had risen 4.5 degrees Fahrenheit since 1947, when Athenian transporters [UFOs] first began taking measurements."
In the same chapter, two main characters discuss global warning,
Asks one character, “Have you seen the movie, ‘Water World,’ with Kevin Costner?”
“Yeah, I saw it last year. The ice caps melted and completely flooded the Earth. Are you telling me that will happen someday?”
“Yes and no. The ice caps are disappearing and that won’t stop, but dry land will still exist. The problem is, the useable amount would have humans living on it like ants in colonies, only more crowded with little room for agriculture. There will be constant wars for food and fresh water. The mass killings would make the Holocaust seem insignificant.”
End of the “The Last UFO” extract.
Assume for a moment the above text is a realistic scenario, then reflect on our growing, two-class Have and Have-not society and what it will be like in the next century. Do you really believe that future powers to be -- America’s ruling elite -- will behave any different than their greedy ancestors?
Of course not. One hundred years from now, people rich enough to own electric cars will have bumper stickers that say, “He who dies with the most food and water wins.”
Hugh E. Scott, editor of King-George.biz -- the only website with hardcopy proof of White House corruption.
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» RE: Dumb question.
Posted by: bloominblacksheep
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Posted by: talkville on Apr 28, 2007 4:28 AM
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Posted by: Bobsays on Apr 28, 2007 5:14 AM
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The green thing is a power tool for Al Gore. And it is working for him: he is now a stalking horse contender for the presidency.
The best example of the validity of today's green washing is how much of it is being propegated by SUV driving yuppies who jet around the world.
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Posted by: amacd on Apr 28, 2007 6:14 AM
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Henwood's bio on this article says he's, "in the early phases of a study of the American ruling class."
Well, la de la, buddy. I'm in the late stages of studying (and understanding) the guileful global corporate elite Empire that has taken over our country and erected this phony facade of "Vichy America" to keep rubes and fools believing that everything is OK, while they loot and destroy the world with their axis of Hedge Fund Whores and Private Equity Pirates running rampant over the entire scam of this political and media cover-up.
Sorry to be so harsh, Dougie, but we simply don't have the time to listen or be distracted by well meaning but naive idealists or overt shills talking about the 'ruling-class' doing anything except involuntarily leaving the planet.
I'm certainly not going to take my eye off the target in my cross-hair to debate whether the "Ruling Classes Save the World From Global Warming".
We're a little late in the repeated history of 'ruling class' Empires raping the world and killing millions of average, honest, 'working class' people and their kids to worry about anything but the elimination of this unacceptable danger to our children and the very survival of our human existence on earth.
Hey, Dougie, wake-up. The current restoration of Empire (after a short period of humanist progress and partial democracy) looks very clearly to me as only a more guileful version of the same ruling elite Empire scams of the past two thousand years. Let's not go all wobbly in the knees that this time the Ruling Class Empire is going to be 'nicer', or that we can work with them to 'all just get along'.
I don't know whether you really believe this 'kumbya' BS Dougie, or whether you are just another imperialist media shill (like the friggin NYT, WaPo, NBC, CBS, etc, etc). All I know is that I'm not going to waste my time (or aim) on listening to 'ruling class' nonsense like the BS the media blew up our arses in the run-up to their Bushie led disasterous oil-war in Iraq.
Hell, does everyone think we are stupid? After seeing Moyers' expose on the ruling class Empire's lies and the fawning media parroting of the lies that led to massive financial and person deaths in their imperial Iraq oil-war, do they think we are stupid enough to be listening to the exact same media idiots and pimps about who we should be excited about in the 2008 presidential campaign 'show'??
The vast majority of the average, humane, and real 'working class' in what's left of our country are starting to realize that they have been hosed and screwed by the ruling class Empire and its pompous, sycophant media whores. Average Americans now are beginning to know that the only thing this arrogant elitist "ruling class" Empire is ever going to do is to pervert and 'game' the political system, the economic system, and the media system to screw the majority. Hell, Dougie, that's the friggin raison d'tat of ruling class Empires --- always has been, and always will be (if we don't stop them).
The time for happy talk and wishful thinking is over, Doug. Pick up a weapon or get out of the way.
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Posted by: Roverton on Apr 28, 2007 7:33 AM
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» Of course they will--and chickens have lips, elephants can fly and Bush will admit all his mistakes.
Posted by: HughScott
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Posted by: Roverton on Apr 28, 2007 7:36 AM
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They are betrayers of all. True loyalty is totaally dead in them.
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Posted by: Beck on Apr 28, 2007 7:45 AM
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In our local paper this morning, a scientist who speaks out on global warming mentioned the huge negative impact of flying, and then dismissed her own constant air travel by saying she needed to for meetings. The denial of another addict, in a nation of addicts in denial.
National Geographic has a new book out, something like 100 Ways to be Green. They are brave enough to include air travel, bluntly saying not to do it. According to them, each person on the plane is responsible for the same amount of emissions as if they'd driven a big SUV to the same destination. For most of us, this makes flying worse than driving, because most of us go on vacations with partners or friends, and wouldn't do it in separate SUVs. However, when you fly on vacation, this is what it's like: each person driving their own individual SUV to wherever you went. Four of you on the plane, four SUVs.
One of the saddest things about this is the negative impact on local destinations, and the blindness about the small amount of real pleasure these long-distance trips seem to contain. Many people speak of where they went as if it's something on a checklist, with each activity on the trip sounding the same. It's as if being able to say you went is the main point of going, that and adding it to an ever-growing list, and actually having a really marvelous experience is optional and rare.
Is it possible that we've begun to awaken to the idea that we don't get happiness from having more things, but now have shifted this obsession with accumulation to travel without fully realizing it?
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» AIR travel, rather than travel itself, strikes me as the problem...
Posted by: mjabele
» RE: AIR travel, rather than travel itself, strikes me as the problem...
Posted by: bornxeyed
» RE: AIR travel, rather than travel itself, strikes me as the problem...
Posted by: mjabele
» RE: AIR travel, rather than travel itself, strikes me as the problem...
Posted by: tommy_slothrop
» RE: AIR travel, rather than travel itself, strikes me as the problem...
Posted by: bloominblacksheep
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Posted by: CriminallySane on Apr 28, 2007 8:10 AM
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No matter. The important part is this: Unless and until not only adapting to climate change but also moving towards technologies that will reduce those changes, not merely slow them, becomes a matter of national priority at the policy level, from the White House on outward, with the "bully pulpit" backed by both the power to compel and the willingness to employ that power, nothing will change. There will always be foot-draggers, and without the power to compel, there is no way to deal with them.
Insurers are a special case. Don't make the mistake of thinking them fools. (Predatory? That's another discussion!) Coverage in parts of the Gulf and southeastern US is getting much more expensive, and in some cases is no longer available. Even if they lack anything resembling social or environmental awareness, insurers know that when they have to make huge payouts they compromise their true mission, generating investment capital. Storms and floods thus hurt their bottom lines. Those who would build along the Gulf, in Florida or the Carolinas, or indeed in any low-lying coastal areas. need to stop emulating King Canute in their folly. Sooner or later, those areas will be inundated, again and again, with each one worse than, and perhaps longer-lasting than, the last. Not covering those areas will in fact mean that building there becomes impossible, not just irresponsible. Ultimately, they're doing the right thing, albeit for very wrong reasons.
And all the well-meant (and indeed noble) individual efforts, the compact fluoros, the hybrids, riding buses and more, will not make for a statistically significant decrease in the rate of warming without a national emphasis greater than that of either the Manhattan or Apollo projects. And without that, from the above-described national policy level, we have no moral leverage when we look to, let alone speak to, China and India and the other expanding economies, where significantly larger populations aspire to near-American standards of living.
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Posted by: daw13 on Apr 28, 2007 8:36 AM
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There is no doubt that a paradigm change is coming and that the CEOs will bring it about. The only thing that surprises me is that their commitment to this change is leaking out. Its in their interests that the citizenry remain convinced that environmental warming is an issue manufactured by liberals. The last thing they want us doing is organizing, and if it looks like we might, they damned well want to control the process. When the shit finally really hits the fan -- meaning its plugging our nostrils to the point we don't just smellit, we can no longer breath through it -- they need to be able to pull the rug out from under us so fast we won't be able to convert our rejection of denial, finally, into real action.
The one thing you can be certain of is that the discomforts sure to be a consequence of the paradigm shift will fall entirely upon our shoulders, and if we don't like it .... don't even think about the Bill of Rights. It's already gone. Who do you think orchestrated that development? The halfwitted incumbent? Or a totally visionary corporate elite?
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» RE: Corporations can be visionary
Posted by: albrechtkrausse
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Posted by: rwa on Apr 28, 2007 8:37 AM
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John Travolta urged everyone to "do their bit" to fight global warming, warning that "We have to think about alternative methods of fuel."
Travolta has five private jets parked in his runway [go to link for this must see picture], has produced an estimated 800 tons of carbon emissions, 100 times more than the average person in the last year, is a "serving ambassador" for the Australian airline Qantas and named his son Jett as a tribute to his love of flying. So when Travolta lectures me about "doing my bit" forgive me for taking it with a pinch of salt.
Al Gore's 20 room private mansion uses 20 times the national U.S. average of gas and electricity, as Gore lavishes himself in his heated swimming pool while poor people and the middle class await the onslaught of carbon taxes to eviscerate any disposable income they have left.
Gore is behind the spectacle of the Live-8 style Live Earth concerts that will take place in numerous cities around the world to raise awareness about climate change. The performers who will be showcased at these concerts include Madonna...According to a report, last year "Madonna flew as many as 100 technicians, dancers, backing singers, managers and family members on a 56-date world tour in private jets and commercial airliners." The singer's Confessions tour produced 440 tonnes of CO2 in four months of last year.
Other acts, including rock group Red Hot Chili Peppers, all use private jets...yesterday throngs queued up outside a London supermarket to buy "eco-friendly" bags that have become the latest must-have fashion item and another trinket for them to grandstand and revel in the pomp that they are saving Mother Earth. In reality, the bags were made in China and transported thousands of miles by CO2 belching jet planes.
If you believe in the notion of man-made global warming, then you should be very concerned about the fact that the leading proponents of the theory are all giant hypocrites espousing outlandish and radical measures to combat climate change while fearmongering about doomsday scenarios, while their own carbon footprints dwarf the average person's by a hundred times or more.
The result of this will be that the mantra of man-made global warming will begin to look increasingly inane. People with an ounce of common sense will see through the fact that... hysteria is deliberately being whipped up on behalf of governments in order to grease the skids for draconian taxation and control measures that won't even do anything to combat man-made global warming...
Meanwhile, real environmental issues like GMOs poisoning our very food supply, the disappearance of huge swathes of the bee populations across the world, deforestation and toxic waste dumping, all get buried while global warming monopolizes the attention of the phony environmental movement.
No doubt there'll be several responses to this article accusing me of denying that the planet is heating up and saying I'm on the payroll of the oil companies. For those people, I would like to remind you of the fact that it was none other than Peter Sutherland, the chairman of British Petroleum, who rallied his fellow elitists at the Trilateral Commission meeting last month, to exploit global warming in order to impose a standardized carbon tax, a measure that will create artificial scarcity and, just like peak oil, raise prices, reaping billions in profits for oil industry moguls.
remove space:
http://www.prisonplanet.com/artic les/april2007/270407sickandtired.htm
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» Paul Joseph Watson - Suckered and Seeking Suckers!
Posted by: lessbread
» Is alternet msm or alternative? What proportion of their environment articles are about GMOs?
Posted by: rwa
» Still trying to change the subject?
Posted by: lessbread
» RE: Are you trying to suggest a connection between Watson and big oil?
Posted by: lessbread
» Who cares if Crow was serious?
Posted by: rwa
» RE: Who cares if Crow was serious? - It Exposes Watson's Poor Judgment
Posted by: lessbread
» Do you really think that's funny? Sick.
Posted by: rwa
» Apparently dry humor escapes you too
Posted by: lessbread
» RE: Global Warming Hypocrites by Paul Joseph Watson
Posted by: heftysmurf
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Posted by: ABetterFuture on Apr 28, 2007 8:42 AM
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About 60 percent of attendees performed this act of penance, though as A.C. Thompson and Duane Moles show in this issue, carbon offsets are a pretty dubious business.
Well, at least the author doesn't buy into the cap-and-trade nonsense.
It's painful for someone like me, who instinctively gravitates to the more radical position on most issues, to admit that the "better deal for business" is still a lot better than nothing.
It's nice to see an author who can at least recognize that folks like being in business. I'm sure the author didn't type his essay on an abacus made from post-consumer recycled products (well, the numbers, anyway).
But it's worth examining the problems with their proposals, with the hope of agitating for something better.
Suggestion: agitate your butt into engineering, geology, materials, or other science school and agitate something useful, rather than something you'd arbitrarily label as "better" because it fits your belief structure. Otherwise, a better descriptor for the author's "agitating" is "whining".
An early version of cap-and-trade was the 1990 domestic US agreement to limit acid-rain-causing sulfur dioxide emissions by coal-burning electric utilities.
Oh hell. Now we've bought whole-heartedly back into the land of dubious. You could make all sorts of arguments against the nonsense of imposing an artificial economy in the limited areas of the world that are well-off enough to temporarily allow their state to police them so...dubiously...but that's like "debating" the merits and questions of evolution with a creationizer.
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Posted by: waterislifeaguaesvida on Apr 28, 2007 9:15 AM
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Energy transition takes implementation of plans and technologies that are already out there. But it also requires new criteria for local planning and energy consumption. It requires a new infra structure for electrical distribution that will decentralize electrical generation. This will be the only thing that will be able to decisively circumvent the nuclear generation issue.
As long as electrical power remains as centralized as it is, the coal option will merely be replaced with nuclear. It will almost be like just unplugging from one outlet and plugging into another.
There are economics issues that inherently arise. Those who demonize corporations decisively push those most impacted by such a move away from coal into a pro-nuclear position. There are ways to minimize the economic impacts of the transition and they cannot be ignored.
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Posted by: waterislifeaguaesvida on Apr 28, 2007 9:22 AM
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B. Economic compensation packages that address workers impacted by the transition http://www.epi.org/content.cfm/studies_cleanenergyandjobs ;
C. Monitoring systems to evaluate the changes in greenhouse gas emissions in the atmosphere http://www.ec.gc.ca/pdb/ghg/ghg_home_e.cfm ;
D. Incentives for the development of alternatives to petroleum-based products "Petroleum is also the raw material for many chemical products, including solvents, fertilizers, pesticides, and plastics; the 16% not used for energy production is converted into these other materials." http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Petroleum
E. Reduction in the production of single-user modes of transportation http://www.worldwatch.org/node/808 , increase in public investment in mass transit operated with renewable energy http://lrta.info/Facts/facts130.html ;
F. Transition of investment of public utility companies in solar and wind technology, decreasing proportion of energy provided by coal, nuclear and oil http://www.energybulletin.net/5000.html ;
G. Establishment of stakeholder boards for oversight and review http://maineghg.raabassociates.org/member.asp?sort=other , Public Utilities Commissions elected by energy users and represented by qualified advocates including environmental, residential, municipal, and rural;
H. Congressional budgetary commitments through carbon taxes
http://www.carbontax.org/ that transition from military expenditures to energy conversion research and development, implementing Swenson's Law :"
To avoid deprivation resulting from the exhaustion of non-renewable resources, humanity must employ conservation and renewable resource substitutes sufficient to match depletion." http://www.hubbertpeak.com/swenson/
I. Establishment of Green Building codes;
J. Revamping of commercial railroad system and increasing mileage of track- increase requirement for piggy-backing of trailers across states; http://europe.theoildrum.com/node/2229
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Posted by: monkeywrench on Apr 28, 2007 9:26 AM
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No.
Not unless they can figure out ways to make saving the world turn a handsome profit. We shouldn't depend upon – or even believe – "solutions" from the same greedy manipulators that got us into this mess in the first place.
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» Eat the Middlemen
Posted by: eddie torres
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Posted by: DaBear on Apr 28, 2007 10:54 AM
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Of course this keeps spec-fict writers in business and feeds my kids.
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» RE: Oh HELL!
Posted by: weatherking
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Posted by: HughScott on Apr 28, 2007 10:56 AM
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I don't agree with everything he says, of course -- especially about President Reagan who, I believe, had early onset Alzheimer's during his second term and was manipulated by Pentagon neocons in spite of Nancy --- but Watson's piece is must-read material for freedom-loving Americans of all political persuasions.
The link is Watson article
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» You hit the nail on the head, rwa. Also, you're welcome.
Posted by: HughScott
» RE: "Counterfeit Foe" - Bogus quote, sloppy thinking and overdriven paranoia
Posted by: lessbread
» RE: What is your point? How does the paranoia play into the control agenda?
Posted by: lessbread
» RE: What is your point? How does the paranoia play into the control agenda?
Posted by: lessbread
» Critics are a dime a dozen, lessbread. Why don't you write an article about "oligarchs"?
Posted by: HughScott
» RE: Critics are a dime a dozen, lessbread. Why don't you write an article about "oligarchs"?
Posted by: lessbread
» It would be helpful, lessbread, if you argued with meaningful facts, not empty rhetoric.
Posted by: HughScott
» Ditto is empty rhetoric -nm
Posted by: lessbread
» The only one "ranting" appears to be lessbread
Posted by: rwa
» So says the spammer -nm
Posted by: lessbread
» Keep it up, good work lessbread!
Posted by: Mr Nelson
» RE: Keep it up, good work lessbread!
Posted by: lessbread
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Posted by: eddie torres on Apr 28, 2007 11:20 AM
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Patriotic Cheerleader Comrade Number 1, aka Flathead, got it all wrong on Iraq, admitted it (4 years late), and quickly changed the topic to "Let's Make Wall Street Look Good."
How? Wal-Mart is Flathead's new best friend. Because Friedman's "Green: The New Red, White and Blue" documentary (read: corporate puff piece) on The Discovery Channel spends 90% of its time touting new Green Ways To Shop At Wal-Mart and the other 10% explaining why future US energy production must change from Dirty centralized corporate controlled technology to Green centralized corporate controlled technology.
Tom Friedman: "Well, I want to rename 'green.' I want to rename it geostrategic, geoeconomic, capitalistic and patriotic."
Thank you, Comrade Friedman, for saving us from the old "Dirty Inc." propaganda and giving us your shiny new "Green Inc." propaganda. Now that "green" has been renamed, the people who count can get busy profiting on it.
See Friedman's "The Power Of Green", and Jim Kunstler's critique "Tom Friedman: apologist for the faux enviros".
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Posted by: rwa on Apr 28, 2007 11:21 AM
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...historians will be comparing the frenzies over our supposed human contribution to global warming to the tumults at the latter end of the tenth century as the millennium approached. Then, as now, the doomsters identified human sinfulness as the propulsive factor in the planet's rapid downward slide..
There is still zero empirical evidence that anthropogenic production of CO2 is making any measurable contribution to the world's present warming trend. The greenhouse fearmongers rely entirely on unverified, crudely oversimplified computer models to finger mankind's sinful contribution. Devoid of any sustaining scientific basis, carbon trafficking is powered by guilt, credulity, cynicism and greed, just like the old indulgences..
I met Dr. Martin Hertzberg... on a Nation cruise back in 2001. He remarked that while he shared many of the Nation's editorial positions, he approved of my reservations on the issue of supposed human contributions to global warming. Hertzberg was a meteorologist, an occupation which gave him a lifelong mistrust of climate modeling.
Hertzberg sent me some of his recent papers on the global warming hypothesis, a construct now accepted by many progressives as infallible as Papal dogma.
..the carbon dioxide content of the atmosphere has increased about 21 per cent in the past century. The world has also been getting just a little bit warmer. The not very reliable data on the world's average temperature (which omit most of the world's oceans and remote regions, while over-representing urban areas) show about a 0.5Co increase in average temperature between 1880 and 1980, and it's still rising, more sharply in the polar regions than elsewhere. But is CO2, at 380 parts per million in the atmosphere, playing a significant role in retaining the 94 per cent of solar radiation that's absorbed in the atmosphere, as against water vapor, also a powerful heat absorber, whose content in humid tropical atmosphere, can be as high as 2 per cent, the equivalent of 20,000 ppm. As Hertzberg says, water in the form of oceans, clouds, snow, ice cover and vapor "is overwhelming in the radiative and energy balance between the earth and the sun." And water is exactly that component of the earth's heat balance that the global warming computer models fail to account for.
The Greenhousers deal with other difficulties like the medieval warming period's higher-than-today's temperatures by straightforward chicanery, misrepresenting tree-ring data (themselves an unreliable guide) and claiming the warming was a local, insignificant European affair.
We're warmer now, because today's world is in the thaw following the last Ice Age. Ice ages correlate with changes in the solar heat we receive, all due to predictable changes in the earth's elliptic orbit round the sun, and in the earth's tilt. In past postglacial cycles, as now, the earth's orbit and tilt gives us more and longer summer days between the equinoxes.
Water covers 71 per cent of the surface of the planet. As compared to the atmosphere, there's at least a hundred times more CO2 in the oceans, dissolved as carbonate. As the postglacial thaw progresses the oceans warm up, and some of the dissolved carbon emits into the atmosphere, just like fizz in soda water taken out of the fridge. "So the greenhouse global warming theory has it ass backwards," Hertzberg concludes. "It is the warming of the earth that is causing the increase of carbon dioxide and not the reverse." Several new papers show that for the last three quarter million years CO2 changes always lag global temperatures by 800 to 2,600 years.
.. the human carbon footprint is of zero consequence amid these huge forces and volumes, and that's not even to mention the role of the giant reactor beneath our feet: the earth's hot molten core.
counterpunch.org
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» Ass Backwards
Posted by: Torgo
» Counterpunch sinking to new lows, apparently: see www.oilempire.us/counterpunch.html
Posted by: thoughtcriminal
» You are falsely implying that I edited out that content
Posted by: rwa
» More like 35% in the past century
Posted by: lessbread
» Has Cockburn Lost the Plot?
Posted by: BobbyGreyFriar
» RE: Has Cockburn Lost the Plot?
Posted by: lessbread
» How many times ...
Posted by: themotie
» Carbon trading
Posted by: themotie
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Posted by: pfm on Apr 28, 2007 12:08 PM
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Posted by: thoughtcriminal on Apr 28, 2007 2:34 PM
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This is why renewables have been kept under wraps for over a century now - because if you can generate your own power from the sun and the wind, then there goes about 60% of Wall Street's profit.
Read http://www.internalcombustionbook.com/ for the best historical analysis of how this situation came to pass:
"Prodigious Research, Ugly Truth. Conventional wisdom says that Americans addicted themselves to oil and that the free market gives people the energy sources and technologies they most desire. Edwin Black proves that the truth is uglier. Based on prodigious research deep into the historical record, Black demonstrates that power-hungry despots, avaricious monopolists, and bottom-line obsessed corporate oligarchs have long done their best to control where we get our energy and how we use it. To better understand how we got where we are today and how we can make better energy choices in the future, read this page-turner - David Farber, author"
The science behind global warming is very sound - see sites like http://www.realclimate.org/ for the details. Fossil fuel CO2 traps infrared heat and thus raises the planet's surface temperature. You want to slow global warming, you have to stop using fossil fuels, and the vested interests are paying public relations firms like Edelman (recipient of $100 million in funds from the American Petroleum Institute) to run massive propaganda campaigns that are identical to those run by the tobacco corporations a few years ago (scroll up for some examples!).
However, these PR attempts are well-documented, and they will serve as the basis for massive climate damage lawsuits against the likes of ExxonMob and Barclays UK.
That's a bit trivial, compared to the need to slow global warming - and the only way to do that is to stop burning coal, period. The electrical utilities and their Wall Street controllers are fighting as hard as they can to prevent this from happening, but that's what needs to be done.
As a good first step, help the Navajo people stop the construction of the Desert Rock coal power plant...
Leonardo Dicaprio, Al Gore and Sheryl Crow should spend less time at Washington dinners with Karl Rove and more time in Navajo country.
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Posted by: lessbread on Apr 28, 2007 6:39 PM
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The Ontario government has approved a California company's plan to build North America's largest photovoltaic solar farm, the provincial energy ministry announced Thursday.
OptiSolar Farms Canada Inc. of Arthur, Ont. — a subsidiary of California-based OptiSolar Inc. — will install more than one million solar panels at four farms outside Sarnia, Ont., providing the province with 40 megawatts of power by 2010. Ontario Energy Minister Dwight Duncan said that's enough to power 6,000 homes.
OptiSolar will be paid 42 cents a kilowatt-hour for the solar power generated, a much higher premium than the 11 cents a kilowatt-hour paid for wind power, another source of "green" energy in which the province has invested.
The project would be the largest in North America using photovoltaic solar cells, which collect energy from the sun's rays and convert it into electricity.
It's also larger than any other existing solar-cell plant in the world, although a number of projects underway would surpass or equal its size. Construction of a 40-megawatt project in Germany is already underway, and last fall, the Australian government announced funding for a proposed 154-megawatt solar power plant to be built in Victoria state and expected to be fully operational by 2013.
Power plants using solar energy and operated in the Mojave Desert generate more than 300 megawatts of power, but those plants are powered through solar thermal energy, a different form of power generation that collects the sun's rays and uses them to heat a liquid that then acts to produce electricity.
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Posted by: KeepsonTickn on Apr 28, 2007 7:39 PM
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The total failure of CAFE standards to improve fuel economy (and thus to reduce emissions) for the last 20 years is an excellent example of what doesn't work. What did have a dramatic effect was the high prices of the late 70s and early 80s (while they lasted.) For a chart and a brief article see:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Corporate_Average_Fuel_Economy
A carbon tax will work for the same reason, as long as it is designed to win popular support, and avoid politicization.
To work politically the carbon tax must be completely revenue neutral and obviously unbiased. It could be made revenue neutral by taxing carbon at its source (or at the port), then distributing the ENTIRE tax revenue to the populace on a per capita basis. Alaska currently distributes oil revenue dividends to its citizens in this manner. This would provide a carrot along with the stick, and individuals would be rewarded for carbon-frugal behavior on a truly fair and equal basis. This should pass muster with fair-taxers as well. I would call it the Fair Carbon Tax.
The carbon tax could be "dialed-in" for desired results, and the results could be easily interpreted. It could also be applied immediately on the national level without world consensus. I would also argue that the carbon tax distributions would help stabilize the economy.
Thanks also to Doug Henwood for mentioning the Carbon Tax Center (http://www.carbontax.org)
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Posted by: phill Parsons on Apr 28, 2007 7:52 PM
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They can of course avoid the early impacts, as they are doing now, whilst the poor have less purchasing power to cope with same.
The rich are not stupid and will attempt to avoid self harm, including to their sources of wealth.
As the harm of further dangerous climate change becomes clearer, through the evidence based study of the climatologists, only hard core deniers will remain opposied to action and thus will erode their own wealth base if they are also rich, as new technologies generate wealth whilst the high carbon sources are hit by the cost of change.
The impacts of dangerous climate change will even dawn on China and India and their emerging wealthy.
The interesting point about the changes needed, if they are comprehensive, effective and timely and thus reach a sustainable relationship with the carbon cycle is, will that also sustain the laisse-faire distribution system of wealth.
The rich never move from the status quo without some presssure, sometimes from within society and occasionally from without.
This time there is a very limited course open and they will either realize the need to lead or be forced to follow by the instinct of self preservation.
However, success in avoiding further dangerous climate change is not guaranteed and the delays that the rich and powerful can cause may also cost them all.
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Posted by: rwa on Apr 28, 2007 8:38 PM
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As it happens, one of the experts included in the presentation has now announced that he was badly mis-quoted, or quoted out of context, and he is back-pedaling like mad.
... let's look at this little debacle a bit more closely.
independent.co.uk:
Expert in oceanography quoted in Channel 4's debunking of Global Warming says he was 'seriously misrepresented'
Professor Carl Wunsch, professor of physical oceanography at the Massachusetts Institute of Technology said he had been "completely misrepresented" by the programme, and "totally misled" on its content. He added that he is considering making a formal complaint.
A Channel 4 spokesman said: "The film was a polemic that drew together the well-documented views of a number of respected scientists to reach the same conclusions. This is a controversial film but we feel that it is important that all sides of the debate are aired. If one of the contributors has concerns about his contribution we will look into that."
Professor Wunsch said: "I am angry because they completely misrepresented me. My views were distorted by the context in which they placed them. I was misled as to what it was going to be about. I was told about six months ago that this was to be a programme about how complicated it is to understand what is going on. If they had told me even the title of the programme, I would have absolutely refused to be on it. I am the one who has been swindled."
Comment: Here we see the professor's point: that it is not so simple as being ALL human caused, nor is it totally non-human caused. His point is how COMPLICATED the subject is.
When told what the commission had found, he said: "That is what happened to me." He said he believes it is "an almost inescapable conclusion" that "if man adds excess CO2 to the atmosphere, the climate will warm".
Comment: Notice here that Prof. Wunsch is not saying that human caused CO2 is the major factor.
He went on: "The movie was terrible propaganda. It is characteristic of propaganda that you take an area where there is legitimate dispute and you claim straight out that people who disagree with you are swindlers. That is what the film does in any area where some things are subject to argument."
Comment: Notice that Prof. Wunsch is here saying that there IS legitimate dispute about what causes global warming.
Mr Durkin last night said that Professor Wunsch was "most certainly not duped into appearing into the programme" and that it "had not in any way misrepresented what he said".
Comment: Now we come to the propaganda and damage control:
The cold, hard facts about global warming
What do most scientists believe caused global warming?
Comment: Notice how the question is phrased: using the terms "most" and "believe." The word "most" is quite misleading, though "believe" is pretty much right on; has nothing to do with facts and data.
Adding even the so far relatively small amounts from human activities makes us warmer.
Comment: This is where we find the major dispute. It is clear that the amount of CO2 emissions that are produced by human beings in our time do not anywhere come close to the volumes of CO2 emissions that have been produced at other periods of history that did NOT result in Global Warming. So the human factor is very much in question.
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» RE: What is the truth about Climate Change? by Laura Knight - Jadczyc
Posted by: bornxeyed
» Your assertions are not sourced
Posted by: rwa
» RE: Your assertions are not sourced
Posted by: bornxeyed
» Blatant lies and misleading propaganda from rwa - read what Wunsch actually said:
Posted by: thoughtcriminal
» Spam, spam, spam - 12,000 words of cut and paste spam
Posted by: lessbread
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Posted by: rwa on Apr 28, 2007 8:40 PM
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Yes, and big warmings over prehistoric times were not started by increasing CO2 levels; changes in solar activity are more likely.
Comment: There is clear evidence of other warmings that were definitely related to increasing CO2 levels that were precipitated by solar activity and OTHER causes. It is disingenuous to suggest that other warmings were not related to rising CO2 levels.
Levels of the gas started rising some 800 years into the warming, but then probably reinforced it, making it bigger and longer. Temperature and CO2 are interdependent; when one goes up the other follows. This time it is different because vast amounts of the gas are being artificially put into the atmosphere by humans.
Comment: So, they clarify here, just to cover their behinds, but that doesn't excuse the preceding twist. As it happens, the current "global warming" spell is following this same pattern. Nothing new here.
What about more recent history?
There was a warm period in Europe in the Middle Ages, again probably caused by solar activity, but it does not seem to have been a worldwide phenomenon, although records are scanty.
Comment: What a load of horse hockey! How easy it is to say "it doesn't appear to have been worldwide" when the records are scanty. And again notice that the cycle was related to the Sun. But NOW, of course, the determination has been made to blame it on strictly human activity no matter what, and that is what this writer seems to be doing.
So is the sun responsible now?
Some sceptics say so and probably it played the major role until quite recently. But over the past three decades, solar activity has scarcely risen, while temperatures have shot up - a fact disguised in the film. What has gone up is CO2 and even top sceptic Nigel Lawson admits it is "highly likely" that the gas has "played a significant part" in global warming this century.
Comment: Notice how cleverly the writer says "Some sceptics say so" instead of saying "many EXPERTS say so" and "probably it played a major role until quite recently." What a load of hooey.
There are quite a few experts - and considerable data to back it up - who are saying that the solar activity HAS increased. To back this up, it is pointed out that nearly every other planet in our solar system is ALSO experiencing Global Warming.
So, who is swindling who?
Now, let's look at Prof. Wunsch's actual comments:
Partial Response to the London Channel 4 Film "The Great Global Warming Swindle"
Carl Wunsch 11 March 2007
I believe that climate change is real, a major threat, and almost surely has a major human-induced component.
Comment: Notice here that Prof. Wunsch says, very carefully, that Climate Change (notice he doesn't even use the term "Global Warming,") "almost surely" - that is to say, it's not a fact established by any hard data - "has a major human-induced component." That is to say, there is a lot more to Climate Change than human activity, though he BELIEVES that component might be major - "almost surely." ALMOST.
But I have tried to stay out of the "climate wars" because all nuance tends to be lost, and the distinction between what we know firmly, as scientists, and what we suspect is happening, is so difficult to maintain in the presence of rhetorical excess.
Comment: Here Prof. Wunsch is making the very careful point that what scientists know firmly and what they suspect are two very different things. And indeed, the rhetoric in the media, driven by political agendas, is quite excessive, particularly relating to the human element relating to "Global Warming."
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» RE: continue
Posted by: bornxeyed
» The "chanting" seems to be coming from your direction
Posted by: rwa
» RE: The "chanting" seems to be coming from your direction
Posted by: bornxeyed
» Spam, spam, spam - 12,000 words of cut and paste spam
Posted by: lessbread
Comments are closed-
Posted by: rwa on Apr 28, 2007 8:40 PM
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Comment: We see here that Prof. Wunsch's primary concern is his reputation among mainstream scientists. That should give us some warning...
The science of climate change remains incomplete.
Comment:
You can say that again! But the rhetoric in the media, including the above article from the UK Independent debunking the debunking of Global Warming is just another case in point.
Some elements are based so firmly on well-understood principles, or on such clear observational records, that most scientists would agree that they are almost surely true (adding CO2 to the atmosphere is dangerous; sea level will continue to rise,...).
Comment: Notice his qualification: "most" scientists. Not all scientists. And in fact, quite often it is the scientist who goes against the "textus receptus" of the standard theory who is right.
Other elements remain more uncertain, but we as scientists in our roles as informed citizens believe society should be deeply concerned about their possibility: a mid-western US megadrought in 100 years; melting of a large part of the Greenland ice sheet, among many other examples.
Comment: Notice that he precedes the remarks about the possibilities of a megadrought in 100 years and the melting of the Greenland ice sheet with "Other elements remain more uncertain..." Next we get to the nitty gritty of his position, the one he has taken to preserve his reputation among his fellow scientists as well as the scientific thought police:
Increased Hurricane activity is also part of "Global Warming." Hurricanes are huge machines that exchange heat and cold in our environment. An increase in heat can lead to a sudden cooling via violent storms, as the fossil record shows...
I am on record in a number of places as complaining about the over-dramatization and unwarranted extrapolation of scientific facts.
Comment: But didn't he just say that there were possibilities that were uncertain, but that he felt that, as a scientist, there should be concern about them? Doesn't he think it is possible that extrapolating "a mid-western US megadrought in 100 years; melting of a large part of the Greenland ice sheet" from the condition of Global Warming is perhaps unwarranted, especially considering the fact that the RECORD shows that every period of Global Warming was followed by a sudden and rapid Global Cooling? An Ice Age? What's wrong with THOSE facts, that specific data that is, as the good professor points out, "based so firmly on well-understood principles, or on such clear observational records"??
Thus the notion that the Gulf Stream would or could "shut off' or that with global warming Britain would go into a "new ice age" are either scientifically impossible or so unlikely as to threaten our credibility as a scientific discipline if we proclaim their reality.
Comment:
And here, Prof. Wunsch demonstrates that he is either not a real scientist, considering all the data, or he is more driven by his concern for his reputation among the politically controlled scientific community than he is concerned with a real threat to humanity. Theres is certainly evidence that the Gulf Stream has shut off before, and there is evidence of sudden glacial rebound associated with this.
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» Spam, spam, spam - 12,000 words of cut and paste spam
Posted by: lessbread
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Posted by: algodees on Apr 28, 2007 10:34 PM
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Historically the wealthy have never done anything to change society for the betterment of all until and unless forced to do so. The question is whether the wealthy will realize that there is nowhere to hide from environmental degradation. A recent study concluded that there is no relationship between intelligence and wealth so I wouldn't bet on the wealthy of this planet to be smart enough to wake up in time to smell the sulphur.
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» RE: Where are the destructive elite going to go? ------ Why, to Paraguay, of course.
Posted by: amacd
» Wrong, amacd. The elite will move to Dubai, where they already own mega-buck condos.
Posted by: HughScott
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Posted by: ateo on Apr 29, 2007 2:54 AM
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» RE: I don't care about the environment
Posted by: bornxeyed
» Bornexyed, it's your kind of thinking that got Bush elected, which apparently doesn't matter to you
Posted by: HughScott
» RE: Bornexyed, it's your kind of thinking that got Bush elected, which apparently doesn't matter to
Posted by: bornxeyed
» Obviously you don't have children, ateo. Must be a lonely and bitter life.
Posted by: HughScott
» RE: Obviously you don't have children, ateo. Must be a lonely and bitter life.
Posted by: bornxeyed
» Child free is NOT a detriment
Posted by: veggiegrrrl
» RE: Child free is NOT a detriment
Posted by: mjabele
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Posted by: Knowmad on Apr 29, 2007 7:43 AM
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Posted by: rwa on Apr 29, 2007 11:25 AM
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How much money does it take to screw in a compact fluorescent light bulb? About US$4.28 for the bulb and labour -- unless you break the bulb. Then you, like Brandy Bridges of Ellsworth, Maine, could be looking at a cost of about US$2,004.28, which doesn't include the costs of frayed nerves and risks to health.
Sound crazy? Perhaps no more than the stampede to ban the incandescent light bulb in favour of compact fluorescent light bulbs (CFLs).
According to an April 12 article in The Ellsworth American, Bridges had the misfortune of breaking a CFL during installation in her daughter's bedroom: It dropped and shattered on the carpeted floor.
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Font: ****Aware that CFLs contain potentially hazardous substances, Bridges called her local Home Depot for advice. The store told her that the CFL contained mercury and that she should call the Poison Control hotline, which in turn directed her to the Maine Department of Environmental Protection.
The DEP sent a specialist to Bridges' house to test for mercury contamination. The specialist found mercury levels in the bedroom in excess of six times the state's "safe" level for mercury contamination of 300 billionths of a gram per cubic meter. The DEP specialist recommended that Bridges call an environmental cleanup firm, which reportedly gave her a "low-ball" estimate of US$2,000 to clean up the room. The room then was sealed off with plastic and Bridges began "gathering finances" to pay for the US$2,000 cleaning. Reportedly, her insurance company wouldn't cover the cleanup costs because mercury is a pollutant.
Given that the replacement of incandescent bulbs with CFLs in the average U.S. household is touted as saving as much as US$180 annually in energy costs -- and assuming that Bridges doesn't break any more CFLs -- it will take her more than 11 years to recoup the cleanup costs in the form of energy savings.
The potentially hazardous CFL is being pushed by companies such as Wal-Mart, which wants to sell 100 million CFLs at five times the cost of incandescent bulbs during 2007, and, surprisingly, environmentalists.
It's quite odd that environmentalists have embraced the CFL, which cannot now and will not in the foreseeable future be made without mercury. Given that there are about five billion light bulb sockets in North American households, we're looking at the possibility of creating billions of hazardous waste sites such as the Bridges' bedroom.
http://www.canada.com/nationalpost/financialpost/st ory.html?id=aa7796aa-e4a5-4c06-be84-b62dee548fda
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» RE: The CFL mercury nightmare
Posted by: bornxeyed
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Posted by: thoughtcriminal on Apr 29, 2007 12:10 PM
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The main goal of the fossil fuel industry and their financial backers has always been two fold: control global energy supplies (1) and stimulate global fossil fuel demand (2).
In the past, this has led to internal conflicts between coal, petroleum and natural gas as well as between renewable biofuels, wind and solar. For example, around 1930 the giant German chemical combine, IG Farben, invented a method for producing gasoline from coal. When Walter Teagle of Standard Oil found out about, he was terrified that petroleum would be wiped out by cheap and abundant coal. Thus, he entered into negotiations with IG Farben and became the director of the firms American subsidiary - and he also helped funnel dollars and raw materials into Nazi Germany - all for the money, of course.
Similarly, the quest to control global oil supplies is still being carried out, this time by Bush and Cheney and Blair for the benefit of Chevron, Exxon, Shell and BP and of the primary banks that control them. That's the whole reason behind the war with Iraq - they wanted to control the oil, particularly in an era of diminishing oil supplies.
Complact flourescent lightbulbs, renewable fuels like biodiesel and bioethanol, wind-generated electricity, solar-generated electricity, clean air fuel efficiency standards, etc - all act to reduce the demand for fossil fuels. The fossil fuel corps KNOW that their products can be replaced by renewables and energy efficient technology, and they are desperate to keep this from happening.
That's why they spend 100's of millions of dollars on massive PR efforts that target all levels of the media and the government. They work overtime to prevent energy efficiency standards from being implemented; they lobby the government to cut research funding for renewables; they buy up and bury promising new technology companies - and they hire PR trolls to work the internet and post disinformation 24-7.
RWA is just Alternet's fossil fuel lobby troll.
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» The loon who fell for ethanol exposes his paranoia
Posted by: rwa
» Ethanol! Give your money to US farmers, not to Saudi oil sheiks
Posted by: thoughtcriminal
» RE: The loon who fell for ethanol exposes his paranoia
Posted by: heftysmurf
» RE: A few thoughts on "rwa"
Posted by: lessbread
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Posted by: rwa on Apr 29, 2007 12:19 PM
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By Marc Lifsher, Times Staff Writer
SACRAMENTO — A bill that would ban the sale of traditional, energy-hogging incandescent light bulbs by 2012 got the green light Monday in a first legislative vote.
Replacing incandescent bulbs with high-efficiency compact fluorescent bulbs would be good for the environment and consumers' pocketbooks, said Assemblyman Lloyd Levine (D-Van Nuys), chairman of the Utilities and Commerce Committee.
The proposal, AB 722, cleared Levine's committee on a 7-2 tally.
"You can replace just about any bulb in the house and can save a significant amount of money," he said, about $62 over the life of the bulb. The squiggly compact fluorescent bulbs cost about $3 each, compared with 50 cents for an incandescent bulb, but they last as much as 10 times longer, Levine said.
Eliminating the use of most incandescent bulbs in California would help combat global warming by keeping an estimated 1.82 million metric tons of carbon dioxide emissions from entering the atmosphere, a committee analysis noted.
----------------------------
Greenpeace also recommends CFLs while simultaneously bemoaning contamination caused by a mercury-thermometer factory in India. But where are mercury-containing CFLs made? Not in the United States, under strict environmental regulation. CFLs are made in India and China, where environmental standards are virtually non-existent.
And let's not forget about the regulatory nightmare in the U.S. known as the Superfund law, the EPA regulatory program best known for requiring expensive but often needless cleanup of toxic waste sites, along with endless litigation over such cleanups.
We'll eventually be disposing billions and billions of CFL mercury bombs. Much of the mercury from discarded and/or broken CFLs is bound to make its way into the environment and give rise to Superfund liability, which in the past has needlessly disrupted many lives, cost tens of billions of dollars and sent many businesses into bankruptcy.
As each CFL contains five milligrams of mercury, at the Maine "safety" standard of 300 nanograms per cubic meter, it would take 16,667 cubic meters of soil to "safely" contain all the mercury in a single CFL. While CFL vendors and environmentalists tout the energy cost savings of CFLs, they conveniently omit the personal and societal costs of CFL disposal.
canada.com/nationalpost
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Posted by: thoughtcriminal on Apr 29, 2007 12:41 PM
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Melting Ice Caps Could Spell Disaster for Coastal Cities, ABC News
By BILL BLAKEMORE March 2, 2006
For the first time, scientists have confirmed Earth is melting at both ends, which could have disastrous effects for coastal cities and villages.
Antarctica has been called "a slumbering giant" by a climate scientist who predicts that if all the ice melted, sea levels would rise by 200 feet. Other scientists believe that such a thing won't happen, but new studies show that the slumbering giant has started to stir.
Recent studies have confirmed that the North Pole and the South Pole have started melting.
Experts have long predicted that global warming would start to melt Greenland's two-mile-thick ice sheet, but they also thought the more massive ice sheet covering Antarctica would increase in the 21st century.
It seems they were wrong.
Two new studies find that despite the increasing snowfall that comes with global warming as a result of the increased moisture in the air, Antarctica's ice sheets are losing far more than the snow is adding.
According to the National Academy of Sciences, Earth's surface temperature has risen by about 1 degree Fahrenheit in the last century, with accelerated warming during the last two decades. Most of the warming over the last 50 years is attributable to human activities through the buildup of greenhouse gases -- primarily carbon dioxide, methane and nitrous oxide. Although the heat-trapping property of these gases is undisputed, uncertainties exist about exactly how Earth's climate responds to them.
"The warming ocean comes underneath the ice shelves and melts them from the bottom, and warmer air from the top melts them from the top," said NASA glaciologist Jay Zwally. "So they're thinning and eventually they get to a point where they go poof!"
Zwally explains that the ice shelves, which the Antarctic ice cap pushes out into the ocean, are responding more than they expected to Earth's warming air and water. If the melting speeds up to a rapid runaway process called a "collapse," coastal cities and villages could be in danger.
That's why we need to stop using fossil fuels and switch entirely to renewables (does anyone really care if Exxon, Chevron, Shell and BP vanish from the planet? Oil wars, inflated gas prices, owned politicians - enough is enough)
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Posted by: maxpayne on Apr 29, 2007 6:36 PM
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Posted by: vertical on Apr 29, 2007 10:38 PM
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» RE: Progressive carbon Tax - Good Point
Posted by: rwa
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Posted by: veggiegrrrl on Apr 30, 2007 7:04 AM
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Water is the bigger issue. Humans can live weeks without food but only days without clean water. We fear more wars over oil? Forget about oil. The biggest wars will be fought over water.
If it's too late to stop the impending global warming disasters, start building water desalinization plants.
Personally, if billions of humans, myself included, die off. Whatever. That's our destiny. But for those of you who want to live, thrive, and spawn a thousand generations, start focusing on the water.
Me? This is the end of the line for my "seed." I'm more worried about apes and whales to consider breeding.
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» Desalination = massive fossil fuel use + water privatization
Posted by: thoughtcriminal
» Bechtal, etc...excellent point...i didn't really think of that...
Posted by: veggiegrrrl
» RE: Bechtal, etc...excellent point...i didn't really think of that...
Posted by: Erik1968
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Posted by: Erik1968 on May 1, 2007 2:50 AM
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Nothing is ever going to change in this crumbling world until governments go back to radically restraining corporations. The free market ain't going to fix it. Do you think corporate criminals are going to VOLUNTARILY pay carbon taxes? Keep track of it themselves? HA! We'll pay at the pump, to be sure, but I have a feeling the big boys will be able to show that they've been "double-taxed" again!
The corporatins are scared now, in their way. They're afraid we might pass...gasp!...LAWS that don't allow them to keep doing whatever they want. So they convince ol' Spotted Owl Al to make a documentary. Maybe they'll even let him be president!
Laws and money to pay for the people to enforce them are the ONLY remedies for global warming. Corporate taxes, taxes on the rich, etc, etc.
Can we keep in mind who the carbon tax will hurt the most? People with no money. The rich won't care, they'll keep flying in their private jets, blissfully paying whatever the cost. Everything is free when you're a billionaire. It's impossible to dent your fortune.
But the workers, the poor, the crazy, the elderly, the stupid, what will they do? Will we set up social programs to buy them carbon credits so they don't freeze? How will that work?
And what about the truly poor, that have seen basic needs like cooking fuel stolen by the corporate maw? Will we just tell them to work harder? Will we tax their wood, their clothes, their shoes? How do you buy carbon credits when you live on a dollar a day?
This is crazy. Get out of the right-wing market-is-all paradigm. There is no "free market." WE the PEOPLE get to decide what the market looks like, what the laws are, who pays taxes, how much.
If we deny these truths, then forget it. The whole democratic experiment is already over.
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Posted by: dhenwood on May 5, 2007 9:20 AM
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Posted by: O.T.E.C.Power on May 8, 2007 11:30 AM
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This technology is Ocean Thermal Energy Conversion (O.T.E.C.) This technology has been studied for over one hundred years and technological advancements, high oil prices, depleted fisheries, fresh water availability and climate change concerns now more than ever make the initial costs for its commercialization more and more viable. TOcean Thermal Energy Conversion, is an energy technology that converts solar radiation to electric power. O.T.E.C. systems use the ocean's natural thermal gradient (the ocean's layers of water have different temperatures) to drive a power-producing cycle. As long as the temperature between the warm surface water and the cold deep water differs by about 20°C (36°F), an O.T.E.C. system can produce a significant amount of power. The oceans are thus a vast renewable resource with the ability to help us produce billions of watts of electric power! The cold, deep seawater used in the O.T.E.C. process is also rich in nutrients and can be used to culture both marine organisms and plant life near the shore or on land.
There is a project in the works which allows the wealthy who have a genuine concern related to aforementioned whereby they can make a contribution through a 501(C)3 for a tax deduction. Their contribution goes towards the construction of a 100MW O.T.E.C. plant which also generates a minimum of 48,000,000 gallons of freshwater daily as a by-product of the plant's operation. Additionally, this project develops a mariculture industry of fish farms on land utilizing the nutrient rich cold seawater. Another benefit of this technology is cold water air conditioning for an industial park located near the O.T.E.C. plant whereby the costs for cooling structures is reduced by approximately 75%.
Imagine if you will, a Small Island Developing State (SIDS) that seeks economic diversification working with Industries that need reliable baseload electric power, ample fresh water, reduced air conditioning costs and a willing and trainable work force.
The Sarasvati Project can, and will, provide this and so much more! For more information please contact us in care of: sarasvatiproject@gmail.com
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Posted by: richholland on Apr 28, 2007 1:59 AM
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History learns us; in 1748 many farmers died for hunger in France, everybody knew the system didnot work but the nobility was not willing to give up anything.
Only the french revolution changed things.
1914 The Russian nobility was happy with the 1st World War;
army contracts, stop the revolutians by killing them in the battlefields.
So in Germany.
We had a global warming 15000 years ago many hunters/gatherers between the Canarian Islands and Africa and between England and the mainland had to emigrate and change lifestyle, together with the Kaukasians agruculter came.
Nowadays you see all over the world more new cars, more use of oil.
To change the economy you must change your poliyical system.
One solution ;only CEO s allowed to have cars and to fly.
A division into a big poor underclas and a small upperclass.
So in a way Mr.Bush is your perfect president and certainly not Al Gore(although he has a private Jet to save enviroment.)
Let us face it, dear backpackers flying from USA to Thailand on a schnorkeling Ecotour killing the coral, dropping empty cocacolacans.
During the second world war we had electricity some hours a daybut the RICH still had their gasoline, this is Darwinism the fittest survive
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Posted by: HughScott on Apr 28, 2007 3:02 AM
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Ten years ago, before catastrophic climate change became a topical issue, I researched global warming for a science fiction novel of mine, “The Last UFO.”
Here's what I wrote in my self-published, 122,000-word thriller:
"Unless there was a reversal of the heating trend, both polar ice caps would melt, flooding coastline communities around the world. Evidence of the trend was particularly dramatic in Antarctica where average regional temperatures had risen 4.5 degrees Fahrenheit since 1947, when Athenian transporters [UFOs] first began taking measurements."
In the same chapter, two main characters discuss global warning,
Asks one character, “Have you seen the movie, ‘Water World,’ with Kevin Costner?”
“Yeah, I saw it last year. The ice caps melted and completely flooded the Earth. Are you telling me that will happen someday?”
“Yes and no. The ice caps are disappearing and that won’t stop, but dry land will still exist. The problem is, the useable amount would have humans living on it like ants in colonies, only more crowded with little room for agriculture. There will be constant wars for food and fresh water. The mass killings would make the Holocaust seem insignificant.”
End of the “The Last UFO” extract.
Assume for a moment the above text is a realistic scenario, then reflect on our growing, two-class Have and Have-not society and what it will be like in the next century. Do you really believe that future powers to be -- America’s ruling elite -- will behave any different than their greedy ancestors?
Of course not. One hundred years from now, people rich enough to own electric cars will have bumper stickers that say, “He who dies with the most food and water wins.”
Hugh E. Scott, editor of King-George.biz -- the only website with hardcopy proof of White House corruption.
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» RE: Dumb question.
Posted by: bloominblacksheep
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Posted by: talkville on Apr 28, 2007 4:28 AM
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Posted by: Bobsays on Apr 28, 2007 5:14 AM
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The green thing is a power tool for Al Gore. And it is working for him: he is now a stalking horse contender for the presidency.
The best example of the validity of today's green washing is how much of it is being propegated by SUV driving yuppies who jet around the world.
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Posted by: amacd on Apr 28, 2007 6:14 AM
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Henwood's bio on this article says he's, "in the early phases of a study of the American ruling class."
Well, la de la, buddy. I'm in the late stages of studying (and understanding) the guileful global corporate elite Empire that has taken over our country and erected this phony facade of "Vichy America" to keep rubes and fools believing that everything is OK, while they loot and destroy the world with their axis of Hedge Fund Whores and Private Equity Pirates running rampant over the entire scam of this political and media cover-up.
Sorry to be so harsh, Dougie, but we simply don't have the time to listen or be distracted by well meaning but naive idealists or overt shills talking about the 'ruling-class' doing anything except involuntarily leaving the planet.
I'm certainly not going to take my eye off the target in my cross-hair to debate whether the "Ruling Classes Save the World From Global Warming".
We're a little late in the repeated history of 'ruling class' Empires raping the world and killing millions of average, honest, 'working class' people and their kids to worry about anything but the elimination of this unacceptable danger to our children and the very survival of our human existence on earth.
Hey, Dougie, wake-up. The current restoration of Empire (after a short period of humanist progress and partial democracy) looks very clearly to me as only a more guileful version of the same ruling elite Empire scams of the past two thousand years. Let's not go all wobbly in the knees that this time the Ruling Class Empire is going to be 'nicer', or that we can work with them to 'all just get along'.
I don't know whether you really believe this 'kumbya' BS Dougie, or whether you are just another imperialist media shill (like the friggin NYT, WaPo, NBC, CBS, etc, etc). All I know is that I'm not going to waste my time (or aim) on listening to 'ruling class' nonsense like the BS the media blew up our arses in the run-up to their Bushie led disasterous oil-war in Iraq.
Hell, does everyone think we are stupid? After seeing Moyers' expose on the ruling class Empire's lies and the fawning media parroting of the lies that led to massive financial and person deaths in their imperial Iraq oil-war, do they think we are stupid enough to be listening to the exact same media idiots and pimps about who we should be excited about in the 2008 presidential campaign 'show'??
The vast majority of the average, humane, and real 'working class' in what's left of our country are starting to realize that they have been hosed and screwed by the ruling class Empire and its pompous, sycophant media whores. Average Americans now are beginning to know that the only thing this arrogant elitist "ruling class" Empire is ever going to do is to pervert and 'game' the political system, the economic system, and the media system to screw the majority. Hell, Dougie, that's the friggin raison d'tat of ruling class Empires --- always has been, and always will be (if we don't stop them).
The time for happy talk and wishful thinking is over, Doug. Pick up a weapon or get out of the way.
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Posted by: Roverton on Apr 28, 2007 7:33 AM
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» Of course they will--and chickens have lips, elephants can fly and Bush will admit all his mistakes.
Posted by: HughScott
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Posted by: Roverton on Apr 28, 2007 7:36 AM
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They are betrayers of all. True loyalty is totaally dead in them.
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Posted by: Beck on Apr 28, 2007 7:45 AM
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In our local paper this morning, a scientist who speaks out on global warming mentioned the huge negative impact of flying, and then dismissed her own constant air travel by saying she needed to for meetings. The denial of another addict, in a nation of addicts in denial.
National Geographic has a new book out, something like 100 Ways to be Green. They are brave enough to include air travel, bluntly saying not to do it. According to them, each person on the plane is responsible for the same amount of emissions as if they'd driven a big SUV to the same destination. For most of us, this makes flying worse than driving, because most of us go on vacations with partners or friends, and wouldn't do it in separate SUVs. However, when you fly on vacation, this is what it's like: each person driving their own individual SUV to wherever you went. Four of you on the plane, four SUVs.
One of the saddest things about this is the negative impact on local destinations, and the blindness about the small amount of real pleasure these long-distance trips seem to contain. Many people speak of where they went as if it's something on a checklist, with each activity on the trip sounding the same. It's as if being able to say you went is the main point of going, that and adding it to an ever-growing list, and actually having a really marvelous experience is optional and rare.
Is it possible that we've begun to awaken to the idea that we don't get happiness from having more things, but now have shifted this obsession with accumulation to travel without fully realizing it?
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» AIR travel, rather than travel itself, strikes me as the problem...
Posted by: mjabele
» RE: AIR travel, rather than travel itself, strikes me as the problem...
Posted by: bornxeyed
» RE: AIR travel, rather than travel itself, strikes me as the problem...
Posted by: mjabele
» RE: AIR travel, rather than travel itself, strikes me as the problem...
Posted by: tommy_slothrop
» RE: AIR travel, rather than travel itself, strikes me as the problem...
Posted by: bloominblacksheep
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Posted by: CriminallySane on Apr 28, 2007 8:10 AM
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No matter. The important part is this: Unless and until not only adapting to climate change but also moving towards technologies that will reduce those changes, not merely slow them, becomes a matter of national priority at the policy level, from the White House on outward, with the "bully pulpit" backed by both the power to compel and the willingness to employ that power, nothing will change. There will always be foot-draggers, and without the power to compel, there is no way to deal with them.
Insurers are a special case. Don't make the mistake of thinking them fools. (Predatory? That's another discussion!) Coverage in parts of the Gulf and southeastern US is getting much more expensive, and in some cases is no longer available. Even if they lack anything resembling social or environmental awareness, insurers know that when they have to make huge payouts they compromise their true mission, generating investment capital. Storms and floods thus hurt their bottom lines. Those who would build along the Gulf, in Florida or the Carolinas, or indeed in any low-lying coastal areas. need to stop emulating King Canute in their folly. Sooner or later, those areas will be inundated, again and again, with each one worse than, and perhaps longer-lasting than, the last. Not covering those areas will in fact mean that building there becomes impossible, not just irresponsible. Ultimately, they're doing the right thing, albeit for very wrong reasons.
And all the well-meant (and indeed noble) individual efforts, the compact fluoros, the hybrids, riding buses and more, will not make for a statistically significant decrease in the rate of warming without a national emphasis greater than that of either the Manhattan or Apollo projects. And without that, from the above-described national policy level, we have no moral leverage when we look to, let alone speak to, China and India and the other expanding economies, where significantly larger populations aspire to near-American standards of living.
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Posted by: daw13 on Apr 28, 2007 8:36 AM
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There is no doubt that a paradigm change is coming and that the CEOs will bring it about. The only thing that surprises me is that their commitment to this change is leaking out. Its in their interests that the citizenry remain convinced that environmental warming is an issue manufactured by liberals. The last thing they want us doing is organizing, and if it looks like we might, they damned well want to control the process. When the shit finally really hits the fan -- meaning its plugging our nostrils to the point we don't just smellit, we can no longer breath through it -- they need to be able to pull the rug out from under us so fast we won't be able to convert our rejection of denial, finally, into real action.
The one thing you can be certain of is that the discomforts sure to be a consequence of the paradigm shift will fall entirely upon our shoulders, and if we don't like it .... don't even think about the Bill of Rights. It's already gone. Who do you think orchestrated that development? The halfwitted incumbent? Or a totally visionary corporate elite?
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» RE: Corporations can be visionary
Posted by: albrechtkrausse
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Posted by: rwa on Apr 28, 2007 8:37 AM
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John Travolta urged everyone to "do their bit" to fight global warming, warning that "We have to think about alternative methods of fuel."
Travolta has five private jets parked in his runway [go to link for this must see picture], has produced an estimated 800 tons of carbon emissions, 100 times more than the average person in the last year, is a "serving ambassador" for the Australian airline Qantas and named his son Jett as a tribute to his love of flying. So when Travolta lectures me about "doing my bit" forgive me for taking it with a pinch of salt.
Al Gore's 20 room private mansion uses 20 times the national U.S. average of gas and electricity, as Gore lavishes himself in his heated swimming pool while poor people and the middle class await the onslaught of carbon taxes to eviscerate any disposable income they have left.
Gore is behind the spectacle of the Live-8 style Live Earth concerts that will take place in numerous cities around the world to raise awareness about climate change. The performers who will be showcased at these concerts include Madonna...According to a report, last year "Madonna flew as many as 100 technicians, dancers, backing singers, managers and family members on a 56-date world tour in private jets and commercial airliners." The singer's Confessions tour produced 440 tonnes of CO2 in four months of last year.
Other acts, including rock group Red Hot Chili Peppers, all use private jets...yesterday throngs queued up outside a London supermarket to buy "eco-friendly" bags that have become the latest must-have fashion item and another trinket for them to grandstand and revel in the pomp that they are saving Mother Earth. In reality, the bags were made in China and transported thousands of miles by CO2 belching jet planes.
If you believe in the notion of man-made global warming, then you should be very concerned about the fact that the leading proponents of the theory are all giant hypocrites espousing outlandish and radical measures to combat climate change while fearmongering about doomsday scenarios, while their own carbon footprints dwarf the average person's by a hundred times or more.
The result of this will be that the mantra of man-made global warming will begin to look increasingly inane. People with an ounce of common sense will see through the fact that... hysteria is deliberately being whipped up on behalf of governments in order to grease the skids for draconian taxation and control measures that won't even do anything to combat man-made global warming...
Meanwhile, real environmental issues like GMOs poisoning our very food supply, the disappearance of huge swathes of the bee populations across the world, deforestation and toxic waste dumping, all get buried while global warming monopolizes the attention of the phony environmental movement.
No doubt there'll be several responses to this article accusing me of denying that the planet is heating up and saying I'm on the payroll of the oil companies. For those people, I would like to remind you of the fact that it was none other than Peter Sutherland, the chairman of British Petroleum, who rallied his fellow elitists at the Trilateral Commission meeting last month, to exploit global warming in order to impose a standardized carbon tax, a measure that will create artificial scarcity and, just like peak oil, raise prices, reaping billions in profits for oil industry moguls.
remove space:
http://www.prisonplanet.com/artic les/april2007/270407sickandtired.htm
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» Paul Joseph Watson - Suckered and Seeking Suckers!
Posted by: lessbread
» Is alternet msm or alternative? What proportion of their environment articles are about GMOs?
Posted by: rwa
» Still trying to change the subject?
Posted by: lessbread
» RE: Are you trying to suggest a connection between Watson and big oil?
Posted by: lessbread
» Who cares if Crow was serious?
Posted by: rwa
» RE: Who cares if Crow was serious? - It Exposes Watson's Poor Judgment
Posted by: lessbread
» Do you really think that's funny? Sick.
Posted by: rwa
» Apparently dry humor escapes you too
Posted by: lessbread
» RE: Global Warming Hypocrites by Paul Joseph Watson
Posted by: heftysmurf
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Posted by: ABetterFuture on Apr 28, 2007 8:42 AM
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About 60 percent of attendees performed this act of penance, though as A.C. Thompson and Duane Moles show in this issue, carbon offsets are a pretty dubious business.
Well, at least the author doesn't buy into the cap-and-trade nonsense.
It's painful for someone like me, who instinctively gravitates to the more radical position on most issues, to admit that the "better deal for business" is still a lot better than nothing.
It's nice to see an author who can at least recognize that folks like being in business. I'm sure the author didn't type his essay on an abacus made from post-consumer recycled products (well, the numbers, anyway).
But it's worth examining the problems with their proposals, with the hope of agitating for something better.
Suggestion: agitate your butt into engineering, geology, materials, or other science school and agitate something useful, rather than something you'd arbitrarily label as "better" because it fits your belief structure. Otherwise, a better descriptor for the author's "agitating" is "whining".
An early version of cap-and-trade was the 1990 domestic US agreement to limit acid-rain-causing sulfur dioxide emissions by coal-burning electric utilities.
Oh hell. Now we've bought whole-heartedly back into the land of dubious. You could make all sorts of arguments against the nonsense of imposing an artificial economy in the limited areas of the world that are well-off enough to temporarily allow their state to police them so...dubiously...but that's like "debating" the merits and questions of evolution with a creationizer.
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Posted by: waterislifeaguaesvida on Apr 28, 2007 9:15 AM
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Energy transition takes implementation of plans and technologies that are already out there. But it also requires new criteria for local planning and energy consumption. It requires a new infra structure for electrical distribution that will decentralize electrical generation. This will be the only thing that will be able to decisively circumvent the nuclear generation issue.
As long as electrical power remains as centralized as it is, the coal option will merely be replaced with nuclear. It will almost be like just unplugging from one outlet and plugging into another.
There are economics issues that inherently arise. Those who demonize corporations decisively push those most impacted by such a move away from coal into a pro-nuclear position. There are ways to minimize the economic impacts of the transition and they cannot be ignored.
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Posted by: waterislifeaguaesvida on Apr 28, 2007 9:22 AM
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B. Economic compensation packages that address workers impacted by the transition http://www.epi.org/content.cfm/studies_cleanenergyandjobs ;
C. Monitoring systems to evaluate the changes in greenhouse gas emissions in the atmosphere http://www.ec.gc.ca/pdb/ghg/ghg_home_e.cfm ;
D. Incentives for the development of alternatives to petroleum-based products "Petroleum is also the raw material for many chemical products, including solvents, fertilizers, pesticides, and plastics; the 16% not used for energy production is converted into these other materials." http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Petroleum
E. Reduction in the production of single-user modes of transportation http://www.worldwatch.org/node/808 , increase in public investment in mass transit operated with renewable energy http://lrta.info/Facts/facts130.html ;
F. Transition of investment of public utility companies in solar and wind technology, decreasing proportion of energy provided by coal, nuclear and oil http://www.energybulletin.net/5000.html ;
G. Establishment of stakeholder boards for oversight and review http://maineghg.raabassociates.org/member.asp?sort=other , Public Utilities Commissions elected by energy users and represented by qualified advocates including environmental, residential, municipal, and rural;
H. Congressional budgetary commitments through carbon taxes
http://www.carbontax.org/ that transition from military expenditures to energy conversion research and development, implementing Swenson's Law :"
To avoid deprivation resulting from the exhaustion of non-renewable resources, humanity must employ conservation and renewable resource substitutes sufficient to match depletion." http://www.hubbertpeak.com/swenson/
I. Establishment of Green Building codes;
J. Revamping of commercial railroad system and increasing mileage of track- increase requirement for piggy-backing of trailers across states; http://europe.theoildrum.com/node/2229
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Posted by: monkeywrench on Apr 28, 2007 9:26 AM
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No.
Not unless they can figure out ways to make saving the world turn a handsome profit. We shouldn't depend upon – or even believe – "solutions" from the same greedy manipulators that got us into this mess in the first place.
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» Eat the Middlemen
Posted by: eddie torres
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Posted by: DaBear on Apr 28, 2007 10:54 AM
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Of course this keeps spec-fict writers in business and feeds my kids.
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» RE: Oh HELL!
Posted by: weatherking
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Posted by: HughScott on Apr 28, 2007 10:56 AM
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I don't agree with everything he says, of course -- especially about President Reagan who, I believe, had early onset Alzheimer's during his second term and was manipulated by Pentagon neocons in spite of Nancy --- but Watson's piece is must-read material for freedom-loving Americans of all political persuasions.
The link is Watson article
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» You hit the nail on the head, rwa. Also, you're welcome.
Posted by: HughScott
» RE: "Counterfeit Foe" - Bogus quote, sloppy thinking and overdriven paranoia
Posted by: lessbread
» RE: What is your point? How does the paranoia play into the control agenda?
Posted by: lessbread
» RE: What is your point? How does the paranoia play into the control agenda?
Posted by: lessbread
» Critics are a dime a dozen, lessbread. Why don't you write an article about "oligarchs"?
Posted by: HughScott
» RE: Critics are a dime a dozen, lessbread. Why don't you write an article about "oligarchs"?
Posted by: lessbread
» It would be helpful, lessbread, if you argued with meaningful facts, not empty rhetoric.
Posted by: HughScott
» Ditto is empty rhetoric -nm
Posted by: lessbread
» The only one "ranting" appears to be lessbread
Posted by: rwa
» So says the spammer -nm
Posted by: lessbread
» Keep it up, good work lessbread!
Posted by: Mr Nelson
» RE: Keep it up, good work lessbread!
Posted by: lessbread
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Posted by: eddie torres on Apr 28, 2007 11:20 AM
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Patriotic Cheerleader Comrade Number 1, aka Flathead, got it all wrong on Iraq, admitted it (4 years late), and quickly changed the topic to "Let's Make Wall Street Look Good."
How? Wal-Mart is Flathead's new best friend. Because Friedman's "Green: The New Red, White and Blue" documentary (read: corporate puff piece) on The Discovery Channel spends 90% of its time touting new Green Ways To Shop At Wal-Mart and the other 10% explaining why future US energy production must change from Dirty centralized corporate controlled technology to Green centralized corporate controlled technology.
Tom Friedman: "Well, I want to rename 'green.' I want to rename it geostrategic, geoeconomic, capitalistic and patriotic."
Thank you, Comrade Friedman, for saving us from the old "Dirty Inc." propaganda and giving us your shiny new "Green Inc." propaganda. Now that "green" has been renamed, the people who count can get busy profiting on it.
See Friedman's "The Power Of Green", and Jim Kunstler's critique "Tom Friedman: apologist for the faux enviros".
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Posted by: rwa on Apr 28, 2007 11:21 AM
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...historians will be comparing the frenzies over our supposed human contribution to global warming to the tumults at the latter end of the tenth century as the millennium approached. Then, as now, the doomsters identified human sinfulness as the propulsive factor in the planet's rapid downward slide..
There is still zero empirical evidence that anthropogenic production of CO2 is making any measurable contribution to the world's present warming trend. The greenhouse fearmongers rely entirely on unverified, crudely oversimplified computer models to finger mankind's sinful contribution. Devoid of any sustaining scientific basis, carbon trafficking is powered by guilt, credulity, cynicism and greed, just like the old indulgences..
I met Dr. Martin Hertzberg... on a Nation cruise back in 2001. He remarked that while he shared many of the Nation's editorial positions, he approved of my reservations on the issue of supposed human contributions to global warming. Hertzberg was a meteorologist, an occupation which gave him a lifelong mistrust of climate modeling.
Hertzberg sent me some of his recent papers on the global warming hypothesis, a construct now accepted by many progressives as infallible as Papal dogma.
..the carbon dioxide content of the atmosphere has increased about 21 per cent in the past century. The world has also been getting just a little bit warmer. The not very reliable data on the world's average temperature (which omit most of the world's oceans and remote regions, while over-representing urban areas) show about a 0.5Co increase in average temperature between 1880 and 1980, and it's still rising, more sharply in the polar regions than elsewhere. But is CO2, at 380 parts per million in the atmosphere, playing a significant role in retaining the 94 per cent of solar radiation that's absorbed in the atmosphere, as against water vapor, also a powerful heat absorber, whose content in humid tropical atmosphere, can be as high as 2 per cent, the equivalent of 20,000 ppm. As Hertzberg says, water in the form of oceans, clouds, snow, ice cover and vapor "is overwhelming in the radiative and energy balance between the earth and the sun." And water is exactly that component of the earth's heat balance that the global warming computer models fail to account for.
The Greenhousers deal with other difficulties like the medieval warming period's higher-than-today's temperatures by straightforward chicanery, misrepresenting tree-ring data (themselves an unreliable guide) and claiming the warming was a local, insignificant European affair.
We're warmer now, because today's world is in the thaw following the last Ice Age. Ice ages correlate with changes in the solar heat we receive, all due to predictable changes in the earth's elliptic orbit round the sun, and in the earth's tilt. In past postglacial cycles, as now, the earth's orbit and tilt gives us more and longer summer days between the equinoxes.
Water covers 71 per cent of the surface of the planet. As compared to the atmosphere, there's at least a hundred times more CO2 in the oceans, dissolved as carbonate. As the postglacial thaw progresses the oceans warm up, and some of the dissolved carbon emits into the atmosphere, just like fizz in soda water taken out of the fridge. "So the greenhouse global warming theory has it ass backwards," Hertzberg concludes. "It is the warming of the earth that is causing the increase of carbon dioxide and not the reverse." Several new papers show that for the last three quarter million years CO2 changes always lag global temperatures by 800 to 2,600 years.
.. the human carbon footprint is of zero consequence amid these huge forces and volumes, and that's not even to mention the role of the giant reactor beneath our feet: the earth's hot molten core.
counterpunch.org
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» Ass Backwards
Posted by: Torgo
» Counterpunch sinking to new lows, apparently: see www.oilempire.us/counterpunch.html
Posted by: thoughtcriminal
» You are falsely implying that I edited out that content
Posted by: rwa
» More like 35% in the past century
Posted by: lessbread
» Has Cockburn Lost the Plot?
Posted by: BobbyGreyFriar
» RE: Has Cockburn Lost the Plot?
Posted by: lessbread
» How many times ...
Posted by: themotie
» Carbon trading
Posted by: themotie
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Posted by: pfm on Apr 28, 2007 12:08 PM
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Posted by: thoughtcriminal on Apr 28, 2007 2:34 PM
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This is why renewables have been kept under wraps for over a century now - because if you can generate your own power from the sun and the wind, then there goes about 60% of Wall Street's profit.
Read http://www.internalcombustionbook.com/ for the best historical analysis of how this situation came to pass:
"Prodigious Research, Ugly Truth. Conventional wisdom says that Americans addicted themselves to oil and that the free market gives people the energy sources and technologies they most desire. Edwin Black proves that the truth is uglier. Based on prodigious research deep into the historical record, Black demonstrates that power-hungry despots, avaricious monopolists, and bottom-line obsessed corporate oligarchs have long done their best to control where we get our energy and how we use it. To better understand how we got where we are today and how we can make better energy choices in the future, read this page-turner - David Farber, author"
The science behind global warming is very sound - see sites like http://www.realclimate.org/ for the details. Fossil fuel CO2 traps infrared heat and thus raises the planet's surface temperature. You want to slow global warming, you have to stop using fossil fuels, and the vested interests are paying public relations firms like Edelman (recipient of $100 million in funds from the American Petroleum Institute) to run massive propaganda campaigns that are identical to those run by the tobacco corporations a few years ago (scroll up for some examples!).
However, these PR attempts are well-documented, and they will serve as the basis for massive climate damage lawsuits against the likes of ExxonMob and Barclays UK.
That's a bit trivial, compared to the need to slow global warming - and the only way to do that is to stop burning coal, period. The electrical utilities and their Wall Street controllers are fighting as hard as they can to prevent this from happening, but that's what needs to be done.
As a good first step, help the Navajo people stop the construction of the Desert Rock coal power plant...
Leonardo Dicaprio, Al Gore and Sheryl Crow should spend less time at Washington dinners with Karl Rove and more time in Navajo country.
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Posted by: lessbread on Apr 28, 2007 6:39 PM
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The Ontario government has approved a California company's plan to build North America's largest photovoltaic solar farm, the provincial energy ministry announced Thursday.
OptiSolar Farms Canada Inc. of Arthur, Ont. — a subsidiary of California-based OptiSolar Inc. — will install more than one million solar panels at four farms outside Sarnia, Ont., providing the province with 40 megawatts of power by 2010. Ontario Energy Minister Dwight Duncan said that's enough to power 6,000 homes.
OptiSolar will be paid 42 cents a kilowatt-hour for the solar power generated, a much higher premium than the 11 cents a kilowatt-hour paid for wind power, another source of "green" energy in which the province has invested.
The project would be the largest in North America using photovoltaic solar cells, which collect energy from the sun's rays and convert it into electricity.
It's also larger than any other existing solar-cell plant in the world, although a number of projects underway would surpass or equal its size. Construction of a 40-megawatt project in Germany is already underway, and last fall, the Australian government announced funding for a proposed 154-megawatt solar power plant to be built in Victoria state and expected to be fully operational by 2013.
Power plants using solar energy and operated in the Mojave Desert generate more than 300 megawatts of power, but those plants are powered through solar thermal energy, a different form of power generation that collects the sun's rays and uses them to heat a liquid that then acts to produce electricity.
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Posted by: KeepsonTickn on Apr 28, 2007 7:39 PM
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The total failure of CAFE standards to improve fuel economy (and thus to reduce emissions) for the last 20 years is an excellent example of what doesn't work. What did have a dramatic effect was the high prices of the late 70s and early 80s (while they lasted.) For a chart and a brief article see:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Corporate_Average_Fuel_Economy
A carbon tax will work for the same reason, as long as it is designed to win popular support, and avoid politicization.
To work politically the carbon tax must be completely revenue neutral and obviously unbiased. It could be made revenue neutral by taxing carbon at its source (or at the port), then distributing the ENTIRE tax revenue to the populace on a per capita basis. Alaska currently distributes oil revenue dividends to its citizens in this manner. This would provide a carrot along with the stick, and individuals would be rewarded for carbon-frugal behavior on a truly fair and equal basis. This should pass muster with fair-taxers as well. I would call it the Fair Carbon Tax.
The carbon tax could be "dialed-in" for desired results, and the results could be easily interpreted. It could also be applied immediately on the national level without world consensus. I would also argue that the carbon tax distributions would help stabilize the economy.
Thanks also to Doug Henwood for mentioning the Carbon Tax Center (http://www.carbontax.org)
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Posted by: phill Parsons on Apr 28, 2007 7:52 PM
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They can of course avoid the early impacts, as they are doing now, whilst the poor have less purchasing power to cope with same.
The rich are not stupid and will attempt to avoid self harm, including to their sources of wealth.
As the harm of further dangerous climate change becomes clearer, through the evidence based study of the climatologists, only hard core deniers will remain opposied to action and thus will erode their own wealth base if they are also rich, as new technologies generate wealth whilst the high carbon sources are hit by the cost of change.
The impacts of dangerous climate change will even dawn on China and India and their emerging wealthy.
The interesting point about the changes needed, if they are comprehensive, effective and timely and thus reach a sustainable relationship with the carbon cycle is, will that also sustain the laisse-faire distribution system of wealth.
The rich never move from the status quo without some presssure, sometimes from within society and occasionally from without.
This time there is a very limited course open and they will either realize the need to lead or be forced to follow by the instinct of self preservation.
However, success in avoiding further dangerous climate change is not guaranteed and the delays that the rich and powerful can cause may also cost them all.
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Posted by: rwa on Apr 28, 2007 8:38 PM
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As it happens, one of the experts included in the presentation has now announced that he was badly mis-quoted, or quoted out of context, and he is back-pedaling like mad.
... let's look at this little debacle a bit more closely.
independent.co.uk:
Expert in oceanography quoted in Channel 4's debunking of Global Warming says he was 'seriously misrepresented'
Professor Carl Wunsch, professor of physical oceanography at the Massachusetts Institute of Technology said he had been "completely misrepresented" by the programme, and "totally misled" on its content. He added that he is considering making a formal complaint.
A Channel 4 spokesman said: "The film was a polemic that drew together the well-documented views of a number of respected scientists to reach the same conclusions. This is a controversial film but we feel that it is important that all sides of the debate are aired. If one of the contributors has concerns about his contribution we will look into that."
Professor Wunsch said: "I am angry because they completely misrepresented me. My views were distorted by the context in which they placed them. I was misled as to what it was going to be about. I was told about six months ago that this was to be a programme about how complicated it is to understand what is going on. If they had told me even the title of the programme, I would have absolutely refused to be on it. I am the one who has been swindled."
Comment: Here we see the professor's point: that it is not so simple as being ALL human caused, nor is it totally non-human caused. His point is how COMPLICATED the subject is.
When told what the commission had found, he said: "That is what happened to me." He said he believes it is "an almost inescapable conclusion" that "if man adds excess CO2 to the atmosphere, the climate will warm".
Comment: Notice here that Prof. Wunsch is not saying that human caused CO2 is the major factor.
He went on: "The movie was terrible propaganda. It is characteristic of propaganda that you take an area where there is legitimate dispute and you claim straight out that people who disagree with you are swindlers. That is what the film does in any area where some things are subject to argument."
Comment: Notice that Prof. Wunsch is here saying that there IS legitimate dispute about what causes global warming.
Mr Durkin last night said that Professor Wunsch was "most certainly not duped into appearing into the programme" and that it "had not in any way misrepresented what he said".
Comment: Now we come to the propaganda and damage control:
The cold, hard facts about global warming
What do most scientists believe caused global warming?
Comment: Notice how the question is phrased: using the terms "most" and "believe." The word "most" is quite misleading, though "believe" is pretty much right on; has nothing to do with facts and data.
Adding even the so far relatively small amounts from human activities makes us warmer.
Comment: This is where we find the major dispute. It is clear that the amount of CO2 emissions that are produced by human beings in our time do not anywhere come close to the volumes of CO2 emissions that have been produced at other periods of history that did NOT result in Global Warming. So the human factor is very much in question.
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» RE: What is the truth about Climate Change? by Laura Knight - Jadczyc
Posted by: bornxeyed
» Your assertions are not sourced
Posted by: rwa
» RE: Your assertions are not sourced
Posted by: bornxeyed
» Blatant lies and misleading propaganda from rwa - read what Wunsch actually said:
Posted by: thoughtcriminal
» Spam, spam, spam - 12,000 words of cut and paste spam
Posted by: lessbread
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Posted by: rwa on Apr 28, 2007 8:40 PM
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Yes, and big warmings over prehistoric times were not started by increasing CO2 levels; changes in solar activity are more likely.
Comment: There is clear evidence of other warmings that were definitely related to increasing CO2 levels that were precipitated by solar activity and OTHER causes. It is disingenuous to suggest that other warmings were not related to rising CO2 levels.
Levels of the gas started rising some 800 years into the warming, but then probably reinforced it, making it bigger and longer. Temperature and CO2 are interdependent; when one goes up the other follows. This time it is different because vast amounts of the gas are being artificially put into the atmosphere by humans.
Comment: So, they clarify here, just to cover their behinds, but that doesn't excuse the preceding twist. As it happens, the current "global warming" spell is following this same pattern. Nothing new here.
What about more recent history?
There was a warm period in Europe in the Middle Ages, again probably caused by solar activity, but it does not seem to have been a worldwide phenomenon, although records are scanty.
Comment: What a load of horse hockey! How easy it is to say "it doesn't appear to have been worldwide" when the records are scanty. And again notice that the cycle was related to the Sun. But NOW, of course, the determination has been made to blame it on strictly human activity no matter what, and that is what this writer seems to be doing.
So is the sun responsible now?
Some sceptics say so and probably it played the major role until quite recently. But over the past three decades, solar activity has scarcely risen, while temperatures have shot up - a fact disguised in the film. What has gone up is CO2 and even top sceptic Nigel Lawson admits it is "highly likely" that the gas has "played a significant part" in global warming this century.
Comment: Notice how cleverly the writer says "Some sceptics say so" instead of saying "many EXPERTS say so" and "probably it played a major role until quite recently." What a load of hooey.
There are quite a few experts - and considerable data to back it up - who are saying that the solar activity HAS increased. To back this up, it is pointed out that nearly every other planet in our solar system is ALSO experiencing Global Warming.
So, who is swindling who?
Now, let's look at Prof. Wunsch's actual comments:
Partial Response to the London Channel 4 Film "The Great Global Warming Swindle"
Carl Wunsch 11 March 2007
I believe that climate change is real, a major threat, and almost surely has a major human-induced component.
Comment: Notice here that Prof. Wunsch says, very carefully, that Climate Change (notice he doesn't even use the term "Global Warming,") "almost surely" - that is to say, it's not a fact established by any hard data - "has a major human-induced component." That is to say, there is a lot more to Climate Change than human activity, though he BELIEVES that component might be major - "almost surely." ALMOST.
But I have tried to stay out of the "climate wars" because all nuance tends to be lost, and the distinction between what we know firmly, as scientists, and what we suspect is happening, is so difficult to maintain in the presence of rhetorical excess.
Comment: Here Prof. Wunsch is making the very careful point that what scientists know firmly and what they suspect are two very different things. And indeed, the rhetoric in the media, driven by political agendas, is quite excessive, particularly relating to the human element relating to "Global Warming."
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» RE: continue
Posted by: bornxeyed
» The "chanting" seems to be coming from your direction
Posted by: rwa
» RE: The "chanting" seems to be coming from your direction
Posted by: bornxeyed
» Spam, spam, spam - 12,000 words of cut and paste spam
Posted by: lessbread
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Posted by: rwa on Apr 28, 2007 8:40 PM
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Comment: We see here that Prof. Wunsch's primary concern is his reputation among mainstream scientists. That should give us some warning...
The science of climate change remains incomplete.
Comment:
You can say that again! But the rhetoric in the media, including the above article from the UK Independent debunking the debunking of Global Warming is just another case in point.
Some elements are based so firmly on well-understood principles, or on such clear observational records, that most scientists would agree that they are almost surely true (adding CO2 to the atmosphere is dangerous; sea level will continue to rise,...).
Comment: Notice his qualification: "most" scientists. Not all scientists. And in fact, quite often it is the scientist who goes against the "textus receptus" of the standard theory who is right.
Other elements remain more uncertain, but we as scientists in our roles as informed citizens believe society should be deeply concerned about their possibility: a mid-western US megadrought in 100 years; melting of a large part of the Greenland ice sheet, among many other examples.
Comment: Notice that he precedes the remarks about the possibilities of a megadrought in 100 years and the melting of the Greenland ice sheet with "Other elements remain more uncertain..." Next we get to the nitty gritty of his position, the one he has taken to preserve his reputation among his fellow scientists as well as the scientific thought police:
Increased Hurricane activity is also part of "Global Warming." Hurricanes are huge machines that exchange heat and cold in our environment. An increase in heat can lead to a sudden cooling via violent storms, as the fossil record shows...
I am on record in a number of places as complaining about the over-dramatization and unwarranted extrapolation of scientific facts.
Comment: But didn't he just say that there were possibilities that were uncertain, but that he felt that, as a scientist, there should be concern about them? Doesn't he think it is possible that extrapolating "a mid-western US megadrought in 100 years; melting of a large part of the Greenland ice sheet" from the condition of Global Warming is perhaps unwarranted, especially considering the fact that the RECORD shows that every period of Global Warming was followed by a sudden and rapid Global Cooling? An Ice Age? What's wrong with THOSE facts, that specific data that is, as the good professor points out, "based so firmly on well-understood principles, or on such clear observational records"??
Thus the notion that the Gulf Stream would or could "shut off' or that with global warming Britain would go into a "new ice age" are either scientifically impossible or so unlikely as to threaten our credibility as a scientific discipline if we proclaim their reality.
Comment:
And here, Prof. Wunsch demonstrates that he is either not a real scientist, considering all the data, or he is more driven by his concern for his reputation among the politically controlled scientific community than he is concerned with a real threat to humanity. Theres is certainly evidence that the Gulf Stream has shut off before, and there is evidence of sudden glacial rebound associated with this.
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» Spam, spam, spam - 12,000 words of cut and paste spam
Posted by: lessbread
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Posted by: algodees on Apr 28, 2007 10:34 PM
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Historically the wealthy have never done anything to change society for the betterment of all until and unless forced to do so. The question is whether the wealthy will realize that there is nowhere to hide from environmental degradation. A recent study concluded that there is no relationship between intelligence and wealth so I wouldn't bet on the wealthy of this planet to be smart enough to wake up in time to smell the sulphur.
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» RE: Where are the destructive elite going to go? ------ Why, to Paraguay, of course.
Posted by: amacd
» Wrong, amacd. The elite will move to Dubai, where they already own mega-buck condos.
Posted by: HughScott
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Posted by: ateo on Apr 29, 2007 2:54 AM
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» RE: I don't care about the environment
Posted by: bornxeyed
» Bornexyed, it's your kind of thinking that got Bush elected, which apparently doesn't matter to you
Posted by: HughScott
» RE: Bornexyed, it's your kind of thinking that got Bush elected, which apparently doesn't matter to
Posted by: bornxeyed
» Obviously you don't have children, ateo. Must be a lonely and bitter life.
Posted by: HughScott
» RE: Obviously you don't have children, ateo. Must be a lonely and bitter life.
Posted by: bornxeyed
» Child free is NOT a detriment
Posted by: veggiegrrrl
» RE: Child free is NOT a detriment
Posted by: mjabele
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Posted by: Knowmad on Apr 29, 2007 7:43 AM
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Posted by: rwa on Apr 29, 2007 11:25 AM
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How much money does it take to screw in a compact fluorescent light bulb? About US$4.28 for the bulb and labour -- unless you break the bulb. Then you, like Brandy Bridges of Ellsworth, Maine, could be looking at a cost of about US$2,004.28, which doesn't include the costs of frayed nerves and risks to health.
Sound crazy? Perhaps no more than the stampede to ban the incandescent light bulb in favour of compact fluorescent light bulbs (CFLs).
According to an April 12 article in The Ellsworth American, Bridges had the misfortune of breaking a CFL during installation in her daughter's bedroom: It dropped and shattered on the carpeted floor.
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Font: ****Aware that CFLs contain potentially hazardous substances, Bridges called her local Home Depot for advice. The store told her that the CFL contained mercury and that she should call the Poison Control hotline, which in turn directed her to the Maine Department of Environmental Protection.
The DEP sent a specialist to Bridges' house to test for mercury contamination. The specialist found mercury levels in the bedroom in excess of six times the state's "safe" level for mercury contamination of 300 billionths of a gram per cubic meter. The DEP specialist recommended that Bridges call an environmental cleanup firm, which reportedly gave her a "low-ball" estimate of US$2,000 to clean up the room. The room then was sealed off with plastic and Bridges began "gathering finances" to pay for the US$2,000 cleaning. Reportedly, her insurance company wouldn't cover the cleanup costs because mercury is a pollutant.
Given that the replacement of incandescent bulbs with CFLs in the average U.S. household is touted as saving as much as US$180 annually in energy costs -- and assuming that Bridges doesn't break any more CFLs -- it will take her more than 11 years to recoup the cleanup costs in the form of energy savings.
The potentially hazardous CFL is being pushed by companies such as Wal-Mart, which wants to sell 100 million CFLs at five times the cost of incandescent bulbs during 2007, and, surprisingly, environmentalists.
It's quite odd that environmentalists have embraced the CFL, which cannot now and will not in the foreseeable future be made without mercury. Given that there are about five billion light bulb sockets in North American households, we're looking at the possibility of creating billions of hazardous waste sites such as the Bridges' bedroom.
http://www.canada.com/nationalpost/financialpost/st ory.html?id=aa7796aa-e4a5-4c06-be84-b62dee548fda
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» RE: The CFL mercury nightmare
Posted by: bornxeyed
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Posted by: thoughtcriminal on Apr 29, 2007 12:10 PM
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The main goal of the fossil fuel industry and their financial backers has always been two fold: control global energy supplies (1) and stimulate global fossil fuel demand (2).
In the past, this has led to internal conflicts between coal, petroleum and natural gas as well as between renewable biofuels, wind and solar. For example, around 1930 the giant German chemical combine, IG Farben, invented a method for producing gasoline from coal. When Walter Teagle of Standard Oil found out about, he was terrified that petroleum would be wiped out by cheap and abundant coal. Thus, he entered into negotiations with IG Farben and became the director of the firms American subsidiary - and he also helped funnel dollars and raw materials into Nazi Germany - all for the money, of course.
Similarly, the quest to control global oil supplies is still being carried out, this time by Bush and Cheney and Blair for the benefit of Chevron, Exxon, Shell and BP and of the primary banks that control them. That's the whole reason behind the war with Iraq - they wanted to control the oil, particularly in an era of diminishing oil supplies.
Complact flourescent lightbulbs, renewable fuels like biodiesel and bioethanol, wind-generated electricity, solar-generated electricity, clean air fuel efficiency standards, etc - all act to reduce the demand for fossil fuels. The fossil fuel corps KNOW that their products can be replaced by renewables and energy efficient technology, and they are desperate to keep this from happening.
That's why they spend 100's of millions of dollars on massive PR efforts that target all levels of the media and the government. They work overtime to prevent energy efficiency standards from being implemented; they lobby the government to cut research funding for renewables; they buy up and bury promising new technology companies - and they hire PR trolls to work the internet and post disinformation 24-7.
RWA is just Alternet's fossil fuel lobby troll.
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» The loon who fell for ethanol exposes his paranoia
Posted by: rwa
» Ethanol! Give your money to US farmers, not to Saudi oil sheiks
Posted by: thoughtcriminal
» RE: The loon who fell for ethanol exposes his paranoia
Posted by: heftysmurf
» RE: A few thoughts on "rwa"
Posted by: lessbread
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Posted by: rwa on Apr 29, 2007 12:19 PM
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By Marc Lifsher, Times Staff Writer
SACRAMENTO — A bill that would ban the sale of traditional, energy-hogging incandescent light bulbs by 2012 got the green light Monday in a first legislative vote.
Replacing incandescent bulbs with high-efficiency compact fluorescent bulbs would be good for the environment and consumers' pocketbooks, said Assemblyman Lloyd Levine (D-Van Nuys), chairman of the Utilities and Commerce Committee.
The proposal, AB 722, cleared Levine's committee on a 7-2 tally.
"You can replace just about any bulb in the house and can save a significant amount of money," he said, about $62 over the life of the bulb. The squiggly compact fluorescent bulbs cost about $3 each, compared with 50 cents for an incandescent bulb, but they last as much as 10 times longer, Levine said.
Eliminating the use of most incandescent bulbs in California would help combat global warming by keeping an estimated 1.82 million metric tons of carbon dioxide emissions from entering the atmosphere, a committee analysis noted.
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Greenpeace also recommends CFLs while simultaneously bemoaning contamination caused by a mercury-thermometer factory in India. But where are mercury-containing CFLs made? Not in the United States, under strict environmental regulation. CFLs are made in India and China, where environmental standards are virtually non-existent.
And let's not forget about the regulatory nightmare in the U.S. known as the Superfund law, the EPA regulatory program best known for requiring expensive but often needless cleanup of toxic waste sites, along with endless litigation over such cleanups.
We'll eventually be disposing billions and billions of CFL mercury bombs. Much of the mercury from discarded and/or broken CFLs is bound to make its way into the environment and give rise to Superfund liability, which in the past has needlessly disrupted many lives, cost tens of billions of dollars and sent many businesses into bankruptcy.
As each CFL contains five milligrams of mercury, at the Maine "safety" standard of 300 nanograms per cubic meter, it would take 16,667 cubic meters of soil to "safely" contain all the mercury in a single CFL. While CFL vendors and environmentalists tout the energy cost savings of CFLs, they conveniently omit the personal and societal costs of CFL disposal.
canada.com/nationalpost
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Posted by: thoughtcriminal on Apr 29, 2007 12:41 PM
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Melting Ice Caps Could Spell Disaster for Coastal Cities, ABC News
By BILL BLAKEMORE March 2, 2006
For the first time, scientists have confirmed Earth is melting at both ends, which could have disastrous effects for coastal cities and villages.
Antarctica has been called "a slumbering giant" by a climate scientist who predicts that if all the ice melted, sea levels would rise by 200 feet. Other scientists believe that such a thing won't happen, but new studies show that the slumbering giant has started to stir.
Recent studies have confirmed that the North Pole and the South Pole have started melting.
Experts have long predicted that global warming would start to melt Greenland's two-mile-thick ice sheet, but they also thought the more massive ice sheet covering Antarctica would increase in the 21st century.
It seems they were wrong.
Two new studies find that despite the increasing snowfall that comes with global warming as a result of the increased moisture in the air, Antarctica's ice sheets are losing far more than the snow is adding.
According to the National Academy of Sciences, Earth's surface temperature has risen by about 1 degree Fahrenheit in the last century, with accelerated warming during the last two decades. Most of the warming over the last 50 years is attributable to human activities through the buildup of greenhouse gases -- primarily carbon dioxide, methane and nitrous oxide. Although the heat-trapping property of these gases is undisputed, uncertainties exist about exactly how Earth's climate responds to them.
"The warming ocean comes underneath the ice shelves and melts them from the bottom, and warmer air from the top melts them from the top," said NASA glaciologist Jay Zwally. "So they're thinning and eventually they get to a point where they go poof!"
Zwally explains that the ice shelves, which the Antarctic ice cap pushes out into the ocean, are responding more than they expected to Earth's warming air and water. If the melting speeds up to a rapid runaway process called a "collapse," coastal cities and villages could be in danger.
That's why we need to stop using fossil fuels and switch entirely to renewables (does anyone really care if Exxon, Chevron, Shell and BP vanish from the planet? Oil wars, inflated gas prices, owned politicians - enough is enough)
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Posted by: maxpayne on Apr 29, 2007 6:36 PM
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Posted by: vertical on Apr 29, 2007 10:38 PM
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» RE: Progressive carbon Tax - Good Point
Posted by: rwa
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Posted by: veggiegrrrl on Apr 30, 2007 7:04 AM
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Water is the bigger issue. Humans can live weeks without food but only days without clean water. We fear more wars over oil? Forget about oil. The biggest wars will be fought over water.
If it's too late to stop the impending global warming disasters, start building water desalinization plants.
Personally, if billions of humans, myself included, die off. Whatever. That's our destiny. But for those of you who want to live, thrive, and spawn a thousand generations, start focusing on the water.
Me? This is the end of the line for my "seed." I'm more worried about apes and whales to consider breeding.
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» Desalination = massive fossil fuel use + water privatization
Posted by: thoughtcriminal
» Bechtal, etc...excellent point...i didn't really think of that...
Posted by: veggiegrrrl
» RE: Bechtal, etc...excellent point...i didn't really think of that...
Posted by: Erik1968
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Posted by: Erik1968 on May 1, 2007 2:50 AM
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Nothing is ever going to change in this crumbling world until governments go back to radically restraining corporations. The free market ain't going to fix it. Do you think corporate criminals are going to VOLUNTARILY pay carbon taxes? Keep track of it themselves? HA! We'll pay at the pump, to be sure, but I have a feeling the big boys will be able to show that they've been "double-taxed" again!
The corporatins are scared now, in their way. They're afraid we might pass...gasp!...LAWS that don't allow them to keep doing whatever they want. So they convince ol' Spotted Owl Al to make a documentary. Maybe they'll even let him be president!
Laws and money to pay for the people to enforce them are the ONLY remedies for global warming. Corporate taxes, taxes on the rich, etc, etc.
Can we keep in mind who the carbon tax will hurt the most? People with no money. The rich won't care, they'll keep flying in their private jets, blissfully paying whatever the cost. Everything is free when you're a billionaire. It's impossible to dent your fortune.
But the workers, the poor, the crazy, the elderly, the stupid, what will they do? Will we set up social programs to buy them carbon credits so they don't freeze? How will that work?
And what about the truly poor, that have seen basic needs like cooking fuel stolen by the corporate maw? Will we just tell them to work harder? Will we tax their wood, their clothes, their shoes? How do you buy carbon credits when you live on a dollar a day?
This is crazy. Get out of the right-wing market-is-all paradigm. There is no "free market." WE the PEOPLE get to decide what the market looks like, what the laws are, who pays taxes, how much.
If we deny these truths, then forget it. The whole democratic experiment is already over.
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Posted by: dhenwood on May 5, 2007 9:20 AM
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Posted by: O.T.E.C.Power on May 8, 2007 11:30 AM
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This technology is Ocean Thermal Energy Conversion (O.T.E.C.) This technology has been studied for over one hundred years and technological advancements, high oil prices, depleted fisheries, fresh water availability and climate change concerns now more than ever make the initial costs for its commercialization more and more viable. TOcean Thermal Energy Conversion, is an energy technology that converts solar radiation to electric power. O.T.E.C. systems use the ocean's natural thermal gradient (the ocean's layers of water have different temperatures) to drive a power-producing cycle. As long as the temperature between the warm surface water and the cold deep water differs by about 20°C (36°F), an O.T.E.C. system can produce a significant amount of power. The oceans are thus a vast renewable resource with the ability to help us produce billions of watts of electric power! The cold, deep seawater used in the O.T.E.C. process is also rich in nutrients and can be used to culture both marine organisms and plant life near the shore or on land.
There is a project in the works which allows the wealthy who have a genuine concern related to aforementioned whereby they can make a contribution through a 501(C)3 for a tax deduction. Their contribution goes towards the construction of a 100MW O.T.E.C. plant which also generates a minimum of 48,000,000 gallons of freshwater daily as a by-product of the plant's operation. Additionally, this project develops a mariculture industry of fish farms on land utilizing the nutrient rich cold seawater. Another benefit of this technology is cold water air conditioning for an industial park located near the O.T.E.C. plant whereby the costs for cooling structures is reduced by approximately 75%.
Imagine if you will, a Small Island Developing State (SIDS) that seeks economic diversification working with Industries that need reliable baseload electric power, ample fresh water, reduced air conditioning costs and a willing and trainable work force.
The Sarasvati Project can, and will, provide this and so much more! For more information please contact us in care of: sarasvatiproject@gmail.com
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