COMMENTS: 209
Climate Change: Why We Can't Wait
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There's a huge gap between what is understood about global warming by the relevant scientific community and what is known about global warming by those who need to know: the public and policy-makers. We've had, in the past thirty years, one degree Fahrenheit of global warming.
But there's another one degree Fahrenheit in the pipeline due to gases that are already in the atmosphere. And there's another one degree Fahrenheit in the pipeline because of the energy infrastructure now in place -- for example, power plants and vehicles that we're not going to take off the road even if we decide that we're going to address this problem.
The Energy Department says that we're going to continue to put more and more CO2 in the atmosphere each year -- not just additional CO2 but more than we put in the year before.
If we do follow that path, even for another ten years, it guarantees that we will have dramatic climate changes that produce what I would call a different planet -- one without sea ice in the Arctic; with worldwide, repeated coastal tragedies associated with storms and a continuously rising sea level; and with regional disruptions due to freshwater shortages and shifting climatic zones.
I've arrived at five recommendations for what should be done to address the problem. If Congress were to follow these recommendations, we could solve the problem. Interestingly, this is not a gloom-and-doom story. In fact, the things we need to do have many other benefits in terms of our economy, our national security, our energy independence and preserving the environment -- preserving creation.
First, there should be a moratorium on building any more coal-fired power plants until we have the technology to capture and sequester the CO2. That technology is probably five or ten years away. It will become clear over the next ten years that coal-fired power plants that do not capture and sequester CO2 are going to have to be bulldozed. That's the only way we can keep CO2 from getting well into the dangerous level, because our consumption of oil and gas alone will take us close to the dangerous level. And oil and gas are such convenient fuels (and located in countries where we can't tell people not to mine them) that they surely will be used. So why build old-technology power plants if you're not going to be able to operate them over their lifetime, which is fifty or seventy-five years? It doesn't make sense. Besides, there's so much potential in efficiency, we don't need new power plants if we take advantage of that.
Second, and this is the hard recommendation that no politician seems willing to stand up and say is necessary: The only way we are going to prevent having an amount of CO2 that is far beyond the dangerous level is by putting a price on emissions. In order to avoid economic problems, it had better be a gradually rising price so that the consumer has the option to seek energy sources that reduce his requirement for how much fuel he needs. And that means we should be investing in energy efficiency and renewable energy technologies at the same time. The result would be high-tech, high-paid jobs. And it would be very good for our energy independence, our national security and our balance of payments.
But a price on carbon emissions is not enough, which brings us to the third recommendation: We need energy-efficiency standards. That's been proven time and again. The biggest use of energy is in buildings, and the engineers and architects have said that they can readily reduce the energy requirement of new buildings by 50 percent.
That goal has been endorsed by the US Conference of Mayors, but you can't do it on a city-by-city basis. You need national standards. The same goes for vehicle efficiency. We haven't had an improvement in vehicle efficiency in twenty-five or thirty years. And our national government is standing in court alongside the automobile manufacturers resisting what the National Research Council has said is readily achievable -- a 30 percent improvement in vehicle efficiency, which California and other states want to adopt.
The fourth recommendation -- and this is probably the easiest one -- involves the question of ice-sheet stability. The old assumption that it takes thousands or tens of thousands of years for ice sheets to change is clearly wrong. The concern is that it's a very nonlinear process that could accelerate. The west Antarctic ice sheet in particular is very vulnerable. If it collapses, that could yield a sea-level rise of sixteen to nineteen feet, possibly on a time scale as short as a century or two.
The information on ice-sheet stability is so recent that the Intergovernmental Panel on Climate Change report does not adequately address it. The IPCC process is necessarily long and drawn out. But this problem with the stability of ice sheets is so critical that it really should be looked at by a panel of our best scientists.
Congress should ask the National Academy of Sciences to do a study on this and report its conclusions in very plain language. The National Academy of Sciences was established by Abraham Lincoln for just this sort of purpose, and there's no reason we shouldn't use it that way.
The final recommendation concerns how we have gotten into this situation in which there is a gap between what the relevant scientific community understands and what the public and policy-makers know. A fundamental premise of democracy is that the public is informed and that they're honestly informed.
There are at least two major ways in which this is not happening. One of them is that the public affairs offices of the science agencies are staffed at the headquarters level by political appointees. While the public affairs workers at the centers are professionals who feel that their job is to translate the science into words the public can understand, unfortunately this doesn't seem to be the case for the political appointees at the highest levels.
Another matter is Congressional testimony. I don't think the Framers of the Constitution expected that when a government employee -- a technical government employee -- reports to Congress, his testimony would have to be approved and edited by the White House first. But that is the way it works now. And frankly, I'm afraid it works that way whether it's a Democratic administration or a Republican one.
These problems are worse now than I've seen in my thirty years in government. But they're not new. I don't know anything in our Constitution that says that the executive branch should filter scientific information going to Congressional committees. Reform of communication practices is needed if our government is to function the way our Founders intended it to work.
The global warming problem has brought into focus an overall problem: the pervasive influence of special interests on the functioning of our government and on communications with the public. It seems to me that it will be difficult to solve the global warming problem until we have effective campaign finance reform, so that special interests no longer have such a big influence on policy-makers.
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Comments are closed-
Posted by: Temporary on Apr 21, 2007 12:30 AM
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» RE: HAH HAH!
Posted by: baldo
» RE: HAH HAH!
Posted by: Uncle Crabby
» Buying the line?
Posted by: rwa
» And yet...
Posted by: JoshuaLudd
» Decades since three mile island in fact
Posted by: rwa
» RE: Decades since three mile island in fact
Posted by: JoshuaLudd
» Sounds like you subscribe to Dominion Over Nature
Posted by: rwa
» I love how you just fit me into whatever pigeon hole comes next...
Posted by: JoshuaLudd
» RE: Decades since three mile island in fact
Posted by: heftysmurf
» What's the "conensus" on GMOs and food irradiation?
Posted by: rwa
» Analysis: Global nuclear boom expected
Posted by: rwa
» This is an example of how dogmatism reveals its own insecurity.
Posted by: Sojourner
» RE: HAH HAH! HAARP
Posted by: futurefarm
» Keep these mad greens away
Posted by: ng1944
Comments are closed-
Posted by: HughScott on Apr 21, 2007 3:05 AM
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Global warming is important but it can wait. Let's talk about why our kids are losing their lives and limbs in Iraq and what we can do to stop it.
Hugh E. Scott, editor of King-George.biz -- the only website with hardcopy proof of White House corruption. AlterNet readers who object to my NON-PROFIT campaign to expose President Bush as a lying crook can email me through the website rather than comment here.
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» RE: nough of global warming. AlterNet. Get back on Iraq and our incompetent commander-in-chief.
Posted by: baldo
» EVERY DAY should be "Earth Day", baldo --not just once a year. As for Iraq, AlterNet has not...
Posted by: HughScott
» RE: nough of global warming. AlterNet. Get back on Iraq and our incompetent commander-in-chief.
Posted by: particle
» Since April 15, AlterNet has posted 50 articles and NOT ONE dealt with GIs in Iraq and returnees.
Posted by: HughScott
» RE: Since April 15, AlterNet has posted 50 articles and NOT ONE dealt with GIs in Iraq and returnees
Posted by: particle
» I submitted matrial to AlterNet but received no response. Politico published me, however.
Posted by: HughScott
» Whoops. I meant "material." Maybe that's why AlterNet never responded. Oh, well...
Posted by: HughScott
» RE: Whoops. I meant "material." Maybe that's why AlterNet never responded. Oh, well...
Posted by: particle
» I don't think anyone avoids the topic of climate change because Iraq is more important
Posted by: Beck
» Greenies are nothing but pampered middleclass wimps.
Posted by: HughScott
» All related: End OIL addiction, heal the environment, then ignore the Middle East
Posted by: karma_ran_over_dogma
» You're right, karma. They're all related, but Iraq must be settled first, for the sake of our GIs.
Posted by: HughScott
» PS: My pool is solar heated and I replaced EVERY light bulb with those low-power neon things.
Posted by: HughScott
» A f*cking POOL! And you call "greenies" "pampered middle-class wimps"!
Posted by: karma_ran_over_dogma
» I built the pool 40 years when prices were cheap and my home cost $27,500. So there!
Posted by: HughScott
» RE: Global Warming is the Crisis that Spawns All Others
Posted by: edgar_michel
» RE: nough of global warming. AlterNet. Get back on Iraq and our incompetent commander-in-chief.
Posted by: disgustedandamused
Comments are closed-
Posted by: utilitarianist on Apr 21, 2007 3:20 AM
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» RE: Nuclear power.
Posted by: Fat Man at the Buffet Line
» RE: Nuclear power.
Posted by: TagsNOLA
» RE: Nuclear power.
Posted by: AlienSlave
» Seas absorb half of carbon dioxide pollution
Posted by: lessbread
» RE: Nuclear power.
Posted by: bornxeyed
» RE: Nuclear power.
Posted by: AlienSlave
» RE: Nuclear power.
Posted by: particle
» RE: Nuclear power.
Posted by: bornxeyed
» RE: Nuclear power.
Posted by: AlienSlave
» RE: Nuclear power.
Posted by: Fat Man at the Buffet Line
» RE: Nuclear power.
Posted by: AlienSlave
» RE: Nuclear power. Insane.
Posted by: Aimee
» RE: Nuclear power. Insane.
Posted by: Benjaminsjw
» RE: Nuclear power. Insane.
Posted by: jmp3954
» response to all your responses
Posted by: utilitarianist
» RE: response to all your responses Aliensalve
Posted by: AlienSlave
» Take into account inflation, compare with share prices in the 60s and the same shares today.
Posted by: utilitarianist
» RE: Take into account inflation, compare with share prices in the 60s and the same shares today.
Posted by: AlienSlave
» RE: Nuclear Power, Earth Meltdown.
Posted by: edgar_michel
» No, utilitarianist...
Posted by: JoshuaLudd
» RE: No, utilitarianist...
Posted by: jmp3954
» RE: No, utilitarianist...
Posted by: JoshuaLudd
» And further...
Posted by: JoshuaLudd
» RE: And further...
Posted by: jmp3954
» Also... your happiness factories...
Posted by: JoshuaLudd
Comments are closed-
Posted by: progressivetype on Apr 21, 2007 5:25 AM
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Efficient: CFL's are four times more efficient and last up to 10 times longer than incandescents. A 22 watt CFL has about the same light output as a 100 watt incandescent. CFL's use 50 - 80% less energy than incandescents.
Less Expensive: Although initially more expensive, you save money in the long run because CFL's use 1/3 the electricity and last up to 10 times as long as incandescents. A single 18 watt CFL used in place of a 75 watt incandescent will save about 570 kWh over its lifetime. At 8 cents per kWh, that equates to a $45 savings.
High-Quality Light: Newer CFL's give a warm, inviting light instead of the "cool white" light of older fluorescents. They use rare earth phosphors for excellent color and warmth. New electronically ballasted CFL's don't flicker or hum.
Versatile: CFL's can be applied nearly anywhere that incandescent lights are used.
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» WHERE TO BUY CFL'S ONLINE HERE!!!
Posted by: writeval
» thanks for the info
Posted by: counterpoint
» RE: Switched to CFL's
Posted by: Basenjis
Comments are closed-
Posted by: AlienSlave on Apr 21, 2007 5:54 AM
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AlienSlave
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» hilarious!
Posted by: veggiegrrrl
» RE: hilarious!
Posted by: AlienSlave
» RE: hilarious!
Posted by: counterpoint
» RE: hilarious!
Posted by: AlienSlave
» RE: 7 years of tribulation ;P
Posted by: Fat Man at the Buffet Line
» RE: 7 years of tribulation ;P
Posted by: AlienSlave
Comments are closed-
Posted by: BillDouglas on Apr 21, 2007 6:07 AM
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What is holding this back? The endless War on Terror. This endless war is based on the lies of 9/11.
To liberate the global consciousness from false prioritizing, we must expose the lies of 9/11 by demanding in mass a new fully independent 9/11 investigation free of Bush Admin control (like the last one was. ie Philip Zelikow).
Nearly 100 high level military and intelligence experts now say we've been lied to, many stating outright the facts of 9/11 point to "inside job at the highest echelons of the US govt." See: PatriotsQuestion911.org
Also view by googling "9/11 Mysteries" a full free documentary on 9/11 that will set your hair of fire. Share it with all you know.
Lastly, go to youtube and search "BBC WTC 7 9/11" and learn that the BBC had foreknowledge of the collapse of Building 7, the Soloman Brothers Building.
By exposing the lies of 9/11, . . . the endless war on terror goes away. American wake up for their militaristic fear based trance, and we can return to the real work needed for human progress.
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» You'd never think we had a first industrial revolution, the way we're trying to stall a second
Posted by: Beck
» Maybe it came from...
Posted by: JoshuaLudd
» Good Grief Bill....
Posted by: gogreen
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Posted by: Aimee on Apr 21, 2007 6:22 AM
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Watch the show.
"We are all children of the Great Spirit, we all belong to Mother Earth. Our planet is in great trouble and if we keep carrying old grudges and do not work together, we will all die." - CHIEF SEATTLE
Aimee
DataOptions.com
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» CHIEF SEATTLE
Posted by: Sparks56
» RE: CHIEF SEATTLE
Posted by: Aimee
» Chief Seattle to President Franklin Pierce, 1855
Posted by: saywhat
» Chief Seattle letter was from movie
Posted by: Dartagnan
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Posted by: VannaLaRoche on Apr 21, 2007 6:41 AM
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And some think humans are "our greatest natural resource." That may be true--they are edible and renewable.
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» humans are not precious
Posted by: veggiegrrrl
» Any species that has done what we have done to itself and the planet..
Posted by: JoshuaLudd
» RE: Any species that has done what we have done...
Posted by: Dartagnan
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Posted by: ABetterFuture on Apr 21, 2007 7:36 AM
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If we imposed a higher tax penalty on fuels, then sure, you might force your average hard working low-income citizens onto a bus (where available). Therefore, we consume less...the supply goes up....prices fall...and hard-working Americans end up subsidizing econonomic expansion in other countries fueled by cheap energy (especially oil) who'll burn it without the many emissions restrictions that we place on fuels here. Make no mistake, our neighbors who can't afford black gold at $60 or $70 a barrel will drain the dregs at $25 or $30, riding the backs of ideological market tampering here at home. Allowing our neighbors to gobble up every last drop while starving Americans for energy and....well, just plain starving Americans isn't the way forward. How many farm tractors can be run on that snazzy "new" moonshine technology, after all? (Not that that's what Dr. Hansen has proposed here, thank goodness. As always, I'm just searching for reasonable alternatives.)
So, while the speaker has impeccable credentials, he needs to take a world view of energy consumption with regard to political policy. It turns out that we're not the only ones on the planet who like energy, and politicians (even bad ones) have to weigh the wants and needs of their constituency against what science suggests, as it has always been. Dr. Hansen, after all, isn't in danger of losing his job if his advice is heeded and half his state wakes up tomorrow unable to afford to get to work. I bet his senator is.
I don't know anything in our Constitution that says that the executive branch should filter scientific information going to Congressional committees.
^ Without a doubt, the most logical, best argued point in the entire article.
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» You can be a Dr. too; just change your name legally to Dr.
Posted by: edith
» Meh. I was trying to be generous. nm
Posted by: ABetterFuture
» RE: You can be a Dr. too; just change your name legally to Dr.
Posted by: bornxeyed
» Same thing every time.. grandmas and babies...
Posted by: JoshuaLudd
» "Same thing..." Of course. When you think you're correct, be consistent.
Posted by: ABetterFuture
» RE: "Same thing..." Of course. When you think you're correct, be consistent.
Posted by: JoshuaLudd
Comments are closed-
Posted by: chiefbluesky on Apr 21, 2007 8:01 AM
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» RE: You are ignoring the 500 pound Gorilla in the room!
Posted by: Muty
» RE: You are ignoring the 500 pound Gorilla in the room!
Posted by: Basenjis
» 1 to 1 ratio?
Posted by: edith
» RE: 1 to 1 ratio?
Posted by: chiefbluesky
» RE: 1 to 1 ratio?
Posted by: bornxeyed
» RE: You are ignoring the 500 pound Gorilla in the room!
Posted by: Sparks56
» RE: You are ignoring the 500 pound Gorilla in the room!
Posted by: anthroman
» RE: You are ignoring the 500 pound Gorilla in the room!
Posted by: Sparks56
Comments are closed-
Posted by: writeval on Apr 21, 2007 8:48 AM
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Here's the cheapest source I've found for the absolute best traditionally-shaped CFL bulb out there, the MaxLite ($5.49 apiece):
http://www.okelectricsupply.com/ma13wprlasas.html
This one replaces your standard 60-watt traditional bulb. Looks practically the same so you can use them in fixtures where they're visible, great warm light, comes on immediately, no noise!
While I'm at it - www.environmentaldefense.org has two wonderful little programs.
http://www.environmentaldefense.org/page.cfm?tagid=632
(a quick questionnaire to locate the type of CFL bulb you need, and links to buy)
http://www.environmentaldefense.org/page.cfm?tagID=602
(a fun and amazing little calculator to determine how much money you save, and CO2 you keep out of the environment, by switching to CFLs throughout your home. The results are stunning.)
PLEASE -- Alternet readers -- make the CFL switch, pass along these links to your friends, and buy everybody CFL's for a weird but enlightening Christmas/Chanukkah present. :) This can make a HUGE difference!
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» RE: Do your part -- switch to CFL bulbs! Links listed here!
Posted by: Sparks56
» RE: Do your part -- switch to CFL bulbs! Links listed here!
Posted by: bornxeyed
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Posted by: Arousiak on Apr 21, 2007 8:57 AM
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Here's your chance to not vacuum, or do laundry or any sunday chores! Instead, hang out with friends, take a long ramble, have candlelit sexytime with loved ones, tell ghost stories, stare blankly, write with a pen in the dark-see
what comes out, dance around to the music in your head, or to a friend's acoustic guitar,drink wine, and
enjoy an evening without noisy distractions. and you save money, hello.
If you got the notion, PLEASE take a moment to pass this along to your friends and spread the word. It really does make a difference.
if you want to tell us about your experience, or just to confirm your participation, write to Pluggout@yahoo.com (note double g's). It will be great to hear from different people.
I hope you'll join us, EY?
And for just a couple of everyday power/cashmoney savings:
*Instead of plugging things into walls, use power strips and turn them off easily when not in use, especially when you are on Vacation. Don't leave chargers plugged in. Turn off everything, empty your fridge if you'll be
gone a while, and turn that off as well.
*Switch to Green Power. In NY Con Edison Solutions offers an easy switch to Wind Power. You pay a wee bit more, but if you use good sense (see above) you'll actually end up saving in the long run. go to:
http://www.conedsolutions.com/residentialgreenpowermain.htm
This was inspired by my awesome friend Sacha Jones who can be found at http://www.stigglynyc.com/
We hope to have a website up and running in the next couple of months encouraging regular Plug It Out days throughout the year.
Thank you all.
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Posted by: ncg96773 on Apr 21, 2007 9:27 AM
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» RE: STORING HUMAN NATURE MUST COME FIRST
Posted by: Basenjis
» RE: estoration of Clarity In Language by Use of Paragraphs Must Come First. N/M
Posted by: ncg96773
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Posted by: Sojourner on Apr 21, 2007 9:52 AM
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We are committing suicide by our own technology.
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» RE: Do whales and dolphins "beach" themselves when their environment is toxic?
Posted by: Basenjis
» RE: Do whales and dolphins "beach" themselves when their environment is toxic?
Posted by: JoshuaLudd
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Posted by: dayahka on Apr 21, 2007 9:58 AM
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This whole article is based on false premises and pseudo-scientific reasoning. Every time Alternet prints rubbish like this they diminish their credibility in other areas.
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» I can put my finger to the wind too
Posted by: edith
» Global Mean Temperature
Posted by: bornxeyed
» RE: Same old Nonsense
Posted by: bornxeyed
» RE: Same old Nonsense
Posted by: heftysmurf
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Posted by: saywhat on Apr 21, 2007 10:03 AM
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Chemtrails are not the natural contrails from the airlines.
Most of the United States has poison chemtrails overhead four days out of seven.
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Posted by: saywhat on Apr 21, 2007 10:51 AM
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» RE: Chemtrails "exotic weapons system" re: Congressman
Posted by: CriminallySane
» troll alert
Posted by: counterpoint
» Thanks! And PLEASE read the info on Senate Bill 517
Posted by: saywhat
» RE: Chemtrails "exotic weapons system" re: Congressman
Posted by: bornxeyed
» Weather Modification; US Senate bill S517
Posted by: saywhat
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Posted by: counterpoint on Apr 21, 2007 10:54 AM
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(I did not tell him I'm an atheist who knows full well that theological 'reasons' based on 'scripture' are arbitrary as most every position can somehow be argued with biblical quotes).Here goes:
To
Trinity United Methodist Church, Denver, Colorado
Dear Rev. Dent,
I noticed your invitation for Sunday's service in the Rocky Mountain News, titled "Penguins, polar bears & people" and want to thank you for it.
First, for addressing the all-important issue of climate change in front of your congregation, and second, for advertising what you are doing to the public. People need to realize that mainline Christian churches are not buying into the right wing propaganda dished out in evangelical churches, and also that they are on firm theological ground to advocate environmental responsibility.
I will mail you a copy of a speech by an eminent climatologist, Stephen Schneider of Standford U. I filmed him at Jefferson Unitarian Church this spring. He argued that the issue of climate change very quickly leaves the terrain of science and becomes one of political judgement and values. In a nutshell, the answer to incalculable risk is insurance. When he asked the 200 people at JUC who had ever had fire damage to their home 2 people responded, a typical statistic. But when he asked who had fire insurance, all hands went up. In essence, we insure against catastrophic risks that are much less likely than the risk of catastrophic climate change which has been scientifically determined to carry a comparatively high risk. It's worth emphasizing that what is still uncertain is the degree to which climate change will affect us, not the fact that it's occurring, and action is required in any case. In addition, the measures to stabilize climate also have substantial side benefits as the world's economies shift into modes of production using renewable energy.
My wife, a science prof at the School of Mines, was very impressed with Schneider's talk because he didn't hype anything (unlike some environmentalists) and because of his focus on the need to develop policy actions in the face of situations that are not 100% certain.
Again, thanks for making a dent! (You've heard that one before...)
My Name
PS: My brother and his wife are both protestant ministers in Germany, he tells me the idea of stewardship has long since won out over the idea of man's divine mandate to subjugate earth, and that few wallow in the sado-masochist phantasies of an imminent rapture (only those converted by aggressive American missionaries, to be precise.)
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» Hey God: Stay Out of Politics
Posted by: edith
» RE: Hey God: Stay Out of Politics
Posted by: Sparks56
» RE: mainline churches are starting to act on climate change
Posted by: leedavis546@msn.com
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Posted by: rwa on Apr 21, 2007 11:04 AM
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... to reduce gasoline usage in the United States by 20 percent within ten years!
What’s so great about achieving that goal?
"When we do that we will have cut our total imports by the equivalent of three-quarters of all the oil we now import from the Middle East."
"To reach this goal, we must increase the supply of alternative fuels, by setting a mandatory fuels standard to require 35 billion gallons of renewable and alternative fuels in 2017."
Of course, if Bush goes ahead and does unto Iran what he did to Iraqi, our total imports of oil from the Middle East will be cut for us, by the Iranians, before Bush even leaves office, long before we achieve that goal.
Hence, Bush ought either to forego his impending War of Aggression against Iran, or ask Congress to require the production of 35 billion gallons per year of ethanol (from corn) before he leaves office.
No doubt the 110th Congress will support Bush’s impending attack on the Mullahs (and their non-existent nuclear-weapons program), especially if it means the next President can focus on assisting the "farm lobby" solve the principal remaining "threat" to our National Security (indeed, according to Al Gore, to the "survival of our civilization"): Climate Change.
The CNA Corporation has just issued a report of its Military Advisory Board entitled "National Security and the Threat of Climate Change."
"The nature and pace of climate changes being observed today and the consequences projected by the consensus scientific opinion are grave and pose equally grave implications for our national security."
According to the Board
"Climate change, national security, and energy dependence are a related set of global challenges.
"As President Bush noted in his 2007 State of the Union speech, dependence on foreign oil leaves us more vulnerable to hostile regimes and terrorists, and clean domestic energy alternatives help us confront the serious challenge of global climate change.
"Because the issues are linked, solutions to one affect the other."
The Board adopted the latest assessment of the International Panel on Climate Change.
"Carbon dioxide, methane, and nitrous oxide have increased markedly as a result of human activities since 1750 and now far exceed pre-industrial values.
"The amount of carbon dioxide in the atmosphere in 2005 [1774 ppm] exceeds by far the natural range of the last 650,000 years (180 to 300 ppm).
"The primary source of the increase in carbon dioxide is fossil fuel use."
So, how does the IPCC come to those conclusions?
And what are "fossil fuels"?
Well, according to Wikipedia, fossil fuels are buried combustible geologic deposits of hydrocarbon materials, formed from decayed plants and animals that have been converted to crude oil, coal, and natural gas by exposure to heat and pressure in the earth’s crust over hundreds of millions of years.
So what distinguishes such organic hydrocarbons from inorganic hydrocarbons?
Recall that isotopes are atoms that have the same chemical properties but have different physical properties. About 1.11 percent of the stable carbon atoms are C-13. The rest are C-12.
Plants take carbon dioxide out of the air and – through the process known as photosynthesis – fixate nitrogen, enabling them to eventually produce the 20 amino acids that both plants and animals need to live.
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» RE: thanol: A Threat to National Security? by Gordon Prather #1
Posted by: bornxeyed
» Read Deep Hot Biospere by Goldman
Posted by: rwa
Comments are closed-
Posted by: rwa on Apr 21, 2007 11:05 AM
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Hence, there is a measurable C-13 deficiency in carbon dioxide that has been produced by burning something organic, like a tree, for example.
But on the basis of C-13 deficiency analysis of oil and gas found at considerable depths beneath the earth's surface, there is reason to believe fossil fuels may not be organic in origin after all.
Nobel Laureate Sir Robert Robinson, who investigated the chemistry of natural petroleum in some detail, noted that the deeper one goes into the earth's crust to find the oil reservoir, the fewer are the signs of anything biological in the oil one finds.
True, there are signs of organic activity – microbial life – in oil found near the surface. But as the depth from which the oil is obtained is increased – to the depths where microbes aren't found – the more nearly the C-13 deficit disappears.
Robinson concluded:
"Actually it cannot be too strongly emphasized that petroleum does not present the composition picture expected from modified biogenic products, and all the arguments from the constituents of ancient oils fit equally well, or better, with the conception of a primordial hydrocarbon mixture to which bio-products have been added."
Why does that matter?
Well, the measured C-13/C-12 ratio of CO2 in the atmosphere has decreased over the last 200 years by 1.5 parts per thousand. The IPCC assumes that decrease has resulted from a huge increase in additions of "organic" CO2. Since the IPCC assumes coal, oil and natural gas are "organic" hydrocarbons, the IPCC concludes that mankind is "very likely" [90% certain] to be responsible for that CO2 increase.
But, since the isotopic carbon ratios for natural gas obtained from great depths is indistinguishable from the methane ejected in volcanic eruptions, it follows that the carbon dioxide produced by burning natural gas obtained from deep reservoirs is also indistinguishable from the carbon dioxide ejected in volcanic eruptions.
Similarly, methanol produced from natural gas obtained from great depths will not have an organic C-13/C-12 ratio.
How about ethanol, produced from Iowa corn or Brazilian sugarcane?
Will that ethanol have an organic C-13/C-12 ratio? Will burning 35 billion gallons per year of that stuff contribute – according to IPCC lights – to Climate Change? Will burning all that organic ethanol contribute to our National Security problem?
You bet your sweet bippy.
http://www.antiwar.com/prather/?articleid=10848
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» RE: ethanol: A Threat to National Security? #2
Posted by: MartianBachelor
» Did you read the article?
Posted by: rwa
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Posted by: CriminallySane on Apr 21, 2007 11:33 AM
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That goal has been endorsed by the US Conference of Mayors, but you can't do it on a city-by-city basis. You need national standards.
That's the rub, right there. Nothing we as individuals do will matter unless and until addressing things like this becomes national policy. And then, and only then, will we have the moral standing to tell anyone else what they might do and how they might help.
All the rest is just feel-good stuff. Moral, yes. Effective...not so much.
And it's not only raising the cost of using CO2-generating fuels, it's absolutely vital to put a national-policy-level effort behind developing alternative power and transport systems and infrastructures. The Luddite extremists, who would have everyone become a mud-grubbing subsistence farmer, are as delusional as those who say there's nothing wrong. We don't move backwards, we move forward. Or we end right here.
Does anyone really claim life would be better if we all went back to near-medieval conditions? To never traveling more than 25 miles from home in our entire lives? Never knowing what's on "the other side"? No more culture or knowledge transmitted not only across space, but through time. No more contact with our fellows across the oceans or even on the other side of a mountain. No more vaccines. No more medical treatments of most kinds, for that matter. Break a leg someplace inopportune, you die. Want that for your kids? Great. You first...
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» RE: National policy is vital.
Posted by: richholland
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Posted by: sonex on Apr 21, 2007 11:49 AM
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» You are easily deceived
Posted by: counterpoint
» You're beautiful. Most of the b.s. on this page is,
Posted by: saywhat
» RE: You are easily deceived
Posted by: Jonnieprince
» RE: You are easily deceived
Posted by: heftysmurf
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Posted by: rtaylor71101 on Apr 21, 2007 12:26 PM
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Despite what you hear on the tube, hundreds of climatologists have not signed on to the carbon dioxide green house theory. Al Gore's information about the increasing CO2 in the atmosphere is slanted to look like a disaster is about to occur. I don’t have the space in this short comment to adequately explain how the first half of the data for the CO2 "hockey stick" curve was taken from ice cores while the second half, the one that is increasing so rapidly, is taken from measurements on the Hawaiian volcanic island of Manua Loa. Eruptions from this volcano have increased in the past 50 years. Since CO2 is part of the gases that vent from volcanic eruptions, you would expect CO2 to increase rapidly over this island. Yet the world is being led to believe that this represents the entire planet. CO2 represents a very small portion of the total green house gases. Water vapor represents 95% yet it is not even mentioned in the documentary, An Inconvenient Truth.
These are the observations that scientists are really seeing around the world and the solar system that clearly show that man's industrialization has perhaps only a minor effect on climate change. The planets of the solar system all show signs of heating up because of increasing solar activity. This also coincides with historic data. Submarine volcanic activity has increased in the last couple of decades. Seventy five percent of the volcanoes in the world are under the ocean. There are some 5000 volcanos under the ocean. And they are erupting everywhere. Even under the Artic Ocean and next to the continent of Antarctica. These eruptions vent very hot magma and geothermal plumes of water with temperatures of 500 to 800 degrees into the oceans. Some of these eruptions are not just confined to the aerial extent of a typical volcano. They are basaltic lava flows that cover hundreds of square miles and are in some cases a 1000' thick. Giant plumes of superheated water tens of miles long have also been observed.
Since the largest CO2 reservoir in the world is the ocean, when oceans warm, CO2 is expelled. How much? I really don’t know. This issue of marine volcanoes has basically been ignored by the scientists that have signed on to the global warming issue. Why? This is just my speculation, but some of these advocates of global warming do receive grants for study of the issue from institutes, foundations, etc. that want only their point of view explained as the rational explanation for climate change.
Other points. Hundreds of glaciers around the world including parts of the Artic and Antarctica are growing. Sea levels around the world are lowering. This is evidence that is not discussed in An Inconvenient Truth. Also; the earth has been much warmer in the recent past. In the Medieval Warm Period, which peaked around 1000 years ago, Vikings had farms and settlements in parts of Greenland that are very cold today. Also England had vineyards, Europe was warmer. This is an historic fact. What we are experiencing today is a natural climate change. And humans can do nothing about it except adapt. Actually a warmer world means more vegetation, thus more food.
The Global Warming Issue is about control and money.
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» RE: We must study all of the Global Warming evidence.
Posted by: counterpoint
» Basically, fossil fuel interests fear loss of market share, so they hire PR trolls to tell lies...
Posted by: thoughtcriminal
» RE: We must study all of the Global Warming evidence.
Posted by: caerbannog
» RE: We must study all of the Global Warming evidence.
Posted by: MartianBachelor
» You obviously know nothing about solar energy output
Posted by: rwa
» RE: You obviously know nothing about solar energy output
Posted by: caerbannog
» RE: You obviously know nothing about solar energy output
Posted by: heftysmurf
» RE: You obviously know nothing about solar energy output
Posted by: rwa
» RE: We must study all of the Global Warming evidence.
Posted by: bornxeyed
» RE: We must study all of the Global Warming evidence.
Posted by: lessbread
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Posted by: HughScott on Apr 21, 2007 1:17 PM
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ANSWER: Greenies are pampered middleclass wimps who don’t have a clue about what REAL protest and activism is.
I listed my protest activities over a 40-year period under another article that AlterNet published today about global warming titled, “The Most Sexiest Greenest Unlikely Story of the Year.”
Bloggers eager to rebut me should read about my activist background before continuing, Meanwhile here’s something they should consider.
At this moment in American history, NOTHING is more important than ending the Iraq War, which is killing hundreds of innocent Iraqis each week and dozens of GIs, not mention thousands of injured and wounded -- all in the name of George W. Bush’s imperialist scheme to control Middle East oil. Yet there is no outrage, no picket lines around the White House, no sit-down strikes on university campuses. Until that happens, all this bullshit about global warming will remain just that. BULLSHIT!
Hugh E. Scott, editor of King-George.biz -- the only website with hardcopy proof of White House corruption. AlterNet readers who object to my NON-PROFIT campaign to expose President Bush as a lying crook can email me through the website rather than comment here.
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» No, it's related: No more wars for oil when we no longer need the oil
Posted by: karma_ran_over_dogma
» With all due respect, rwa, you need to bone up on peak oil.
Posted by: HughScott
» Get with it
Posted by: rwa
» Agree, Agree
Posted by: Sparks56
» Always America First!!!
Posted by: lessbread
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Posted by: ggmurray on Apr 21, 2007 2:42 PM
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Now is the time to develop those training programs and tax incentives for those who are willing to convert to the new technologies.
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» Dream on
Posted by: rwa
» Salsa On the Roof
Posted by: edith
» But building the coal-fired power plants that you feel we still need.....
Posted by: mjabele
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Posted by: edith on Apr 21, 2007 4:07 PM
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2. Certainly more stringent fuel efficiency standards and repricing of carbon base products suggested by Hansen are reasonable suggestions if done in accordance with free, competitive choice and not top down, command and control Soviet style economics.
3. Hansen displays however a level of certainty that I do not recall the IPCC had of significantly higher sea levels. I am sure there is a quantitative basis for his estimates. However I would doubt that the scientific community shares Hansen's certainty as to the precise level or magnitude of sea level change, or ice sheet thickness, for that matter.
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» wrong again
Posted by: MartianBachelor
» Waiting For the Man
Posted by: edith
» RE: Waiting For the Man
Posted by: mjabele
» RE: Waiting For the Man
Posted by: heftysmurf
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Posted by: magistre on Apr 21, 2007 6:26 PM
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» RE: Just a few things...
Posted by: MartianBachelor
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Posted by: thoughtcriminal on Apr 21, 2007 6:39 PM
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The Wall Street Seven, UCS
A first step towards preventing the high end climate change outcome is to stop those 150 coal-fired power plants from being built.
At the same time, there will have to be a massive investment in renewable energy systems, including storage and delivery, that will cost trillions of dollars, but which will also create an entirely new economy.
Who doesn't want to see the world get off fossil fuels? Everyone from Wall Street and London banks to Saudi and Iranian and Venezuelan and Russian oil ministers - the entire global economic system currently revolves around fossil fuel use. Vested fossil fuel economic interests are resistant to loss of sales and market share; that's why they're spending 100's of millions on a global disinformation campaign, just as the tobacco industry did - to protect their billions in sales revenue.
Change is tough, but will have to happen - and halting the use of coal should be the first priority, since it's far dirtier and lower in energy content than natural gas. If China bans new coal-fired power plants, why can't the US?
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Posted by: Sparks56 on Apr 22, 2007 2:27 AM
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Nobody is talking about this.
There was a book published in the 70's called "The Population Bomb". It needs to be re-issued.
If your cause does not include population control, it's a lost cause.
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Posted by: rwa on Apr 22, 2007 6:47 AM
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Predictions:
complete end of petroleum by the mid-eighties followed by
massive human die off.
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» RE: The population Bomb
Posted by: Sparks56
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Posted by: rwa on Apr 22, 2007 7:00 AM
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But fossil-fuel prices have skyrocketed and stayed there, and a new mainstream concern over global climate change may lead to the regulation of polluting emissions, which makes nuclear a better competitor.
"I'll be very surprised if the U.S. does not make a decision to build within the next five years," Wang said. "I think the U.S. looks very promising. It's a matter of how big of a build it is." The Nuclear Regulatory Commission expects applications for around 30 new reactors in the coming decade, including a dozen moving quick to take advantage of new federal financial incentives.
The NRC has created a new licensing process as well, hoping to reduce regulatory costs and time frame...
"Rising energy demand, a concern for the environment and a proven record of operating nuclear power plants safely and efficiently are all contributing to a renewed interest in nuclear power," Conrad said. "The recent approval of early site permits and the announced intentions to seek combined construction and operating licenses are concrete steps toward the development of new nuclear power in this country." A recent study by the Congressional Research Service, however, found extending federal incentives are vital for new nuclear in the United States, unless its competition is priced out.
"Under base case conditions, it seems unlikely that a new nuclear power plant would be constructed in the United States, barring a sustained, long-term increase in natural-gas prices and the creation of a substantial, mandatory greenhouse gas reduction program that would increase coal-fired and natural gas-fired generating costs," it said.
http://www.earthtimes.org/articles/show/48828.html
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Posted by: eniranjanrao@gmail.com on Apr 22, 2007 7:16 AM
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» Quo Vadis?
Posted by: edith
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Posted by: rwa on Apr 22, 2007 7:38 AM
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Khatami told a Kazakhstan television station that Iran is like any other developing nation and is developing nuclear power to conserve its hydrocarbons and improver the environment.
"The world's developed countries are using nuclear energy and trying to replace fossil fuels with other sources of energy for a better environment and Iran wants to do the same," Khatami said.
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» RE: Khatami: Iran nuke program has green tone
Posted by: jmp3954
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Posted by: rwa on Apr 22, 2007 7:51 AM
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Official documents reveal volunteers drank and inhaled infected material to assess contamination risks
DOZENS OF people drank, inhaled or were injected with radioactivity as part of a series of secret experiments carried out by the nuclear industry in the 1960s, according to official documents passed to the Sunday Herald.
Tests exposing humans to radioactive caesium, iodine, strontium and uranium were conducted despite doubts about their legal and ethical implications. One proposal even envisaged injecting plutonium into elderly people to help assess contamination risks.
The new evidence could form part of the government inquiry launched last week into the industry's shady past...
Now documents from the National Archives in London have shed new light on other scandals involving the nuclear industry. A memo from the UK Atomic Energy Authority (UKAEA) in August 1965 summarised a series of "experiments involving exposure of volunteers to radiation".
It said 10 volunteers from Harwell in Oxfordshire drank a liquid containing caesium-132 and caesium-134 in November 1962. Two volunteers from Sellafield, then known as Windscale, also ingested some strontium 90 to investigate "uptake by the gut".
A further 18 volunteers at Harwell in 1964 breathed in a vapour of methyl iodide-132 to test its retention in the thyroid gland. If anyone became ill as a result, the memo said, they would be able to sue for damages, though the risk was dismissed as "negligible".
A letter from May 1968 mentioned moral and practical concerns raised over two uranium tests planned for the Springfield nuclear plant near Preston.
Another memo from 1962 referred to highly controversial US experiments in which elderly and sick hospital patients were injected with plutonium. It suggested carrying out a similar experiment in the UK, mentioning old people as potential candidates.
The nuclear researcher and consultant who unearthed the documents, Dr David Lowry, has offered to submit his evidence to the Redfern inquiry. "The revelations put a large question mark against official reassurances given by the nuclear industry to successive public inquiries that radiation protection measures were adequate," he said.
Lowry, co-author of a forthcoming book on nuclear power, is particularly concerned about the way he alleges the UKAEA planned to spin the human experiments. "The nuclear industry must learn that the public demands the whole truth not half-truths when it comes to public health and safety," he said.
One memo from January 1963 recommended against announcing experiments before they began. Instead it suggested providing a brief for public relations staff "for use only if the experiments become public knowledge"...
The meeting also discussed the "ethical problems" of feeding radioactively contaminated whelks from near Sellafield to children...
The UKAEA is investigating whether any tissue from workers who had died at the Dounreay nuclear plant in the north of Scotland had been involved in the experiments. It is expecting to make a statement next week, and submit evidence to the Redfern inquiry...
The need to develop nuclear power and nuclear weapons were "adequate justification" for exposing workers, one 1963 memo said.
http://www.sundayherald.com/news/her aldnews/display.var.1346632.0.hu mans_in_secret_radioactive_tests.php
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Posted by: thoughtcriminal on Apr 22, 2007 9:23 AM
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Speaking Diné to Dirty Power: Navajo Challenge New Coal-Fired Plant
by Jeff Conant, Special to CorpWatch
April 3rd, 2007
In a makeshift hut on a hilltop in the high desert near Farmington, New Mexico, local schoolteacher David Nez projects a PowerPoint presentation on a blanket nailed to the wall. Outside the door, a small wind and solar generator silently provides the electricity for his computer-aided presentation. Less than a mile away, a different technology rules. Smoke plumes mark the horizon from huge coal-fired power plants, as an enormous crane rips into the Navajo coal mine, the largest open pit mine in the western U.S.
If plans go through for a massive new plant, co-owned by Houston-based Sithe Global Power and the Diné Power Authority (DPA), another coal-fired facility will generate electricity on the lands of the Diné indigenous peoples (also known as the Navajo by the colonizers). This tribal enterprise has split the Navajo Nation, with some praising the opportunity for economic development and others decrying the inevitable effect on environment and values.
Elouise Brown, Hank Dixon, Nez and a few of their Navajo elders have gathered in the rustic hut to figure out how to block the new construction. Brown found out about the project in December when she came on a man drilling a test well on her family’s grazing land. She cornered the worker and forced him to leave. That same day she established a blockade at the site now known as the Dooda Desert Rock vigil (Dooda means “no” in the Diné language). Even without the new project a dense curtain of brown smog hangs over the desert between the site of the vigil and the distant silhouette of Shiprock peak.
The plant would burn 5.5 million tons of Navajo coal per year and produce 1,500 megawatts of electricity for the fast-growing cities of the Southwest. "You will hear that the Navajo Nation supports this power plant, but grassroots people do not support this," said Nez, who lives 20 miles from the site of the proposed plant.
Hank Dixon, a young Navajo whose family’s land is impacted by the project, called the decision-making process “undemocratic.”
Banning coal is absolutely necessary.
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» Coal-free by what year?
Posted by: edith
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Posted by: han on Apr 22, 2007 9:56 AM
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1) The sun shines
2) Tree grows and filter CO2 from the air
3) We chop down trees and burn then and use the energy and turn wood in CO2.
So lets start growing massive forrests, and filter all that CO2 from the atmosphere. And once we got them we can start using them as a source for our energy. All we have to do is plant other trees to replace the ones we chopped down. It's that simple.
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» RE: ecycling is the only adequate solution.
Posted by: Sparks56
» RE: ecycling is the only adequate solution.
Posted by: han
» RE: ecycling is the only adequate solution.
Posted by: bornxeyed
» RE: ecycling is the only adequate solution.
Posted by: han
» Ok.. HOW???
Posted by: JoshuaLudd
» Something has to give... we can either choose what it is, which will be tough...
Posted by: JoshuaLudd
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Posted by: thoughtcriminal on Apr 22, 2007 10:21 AM
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Why are fossil fuel interests spending hundreds of millions on PR that attacks climate science and renewable energy production? Because they like being the richest, most powerful people on Earth, and they don't want to see that change! It's called GREED...
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Posted by: jbwestwood on Apr 22, 2007 7:40 PM
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Human (that excludes Neanderthals) ingenuity MAY, JUST MAY, be able to mark a perilous path away from what appears to be an unimaginably catastrophic future. But that path will have to be strewn with the corpses of THOSE WHO WILL NOT SEE! The future must not try to accommodate idiocy no matter how strident!
Geezer means octogenarian who regrets fathering grandchildren
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Posted by: futurefarm on Apr 23, 2007 7:15 AM
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» Isn't everything at alternot propaganda?
Posted by: rwa
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Posted by: chief of okeefe on Apr 23, 2007 5:35 PM
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Now imagine the unbelievable goal of stopping all auto emissions in a country whose population is still growing. Even that incredible achievement would reduce the total CO2 emissions into planet earth by 1/450 th (0.22 * 0.25 * 0.04 = 0.0022). The notion that anyone has a model proven to be so accurate that this infinitismal change would make a difference is laughable.
And that, my friends, is why this issue is DOA with enough Americans you will get nothing done democratically. As long as this whole discussion is so irrational-- like a new religion-- it wil be nothing more than more hot CO2.
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» Please don't use logic, we want nuclear power plants
Posted by: rwa
» Because we have to make sure any fix just means buying, building, and spending...
Posted by: JoshuaLudd
» The global warming meme just means buying, building, and spending... with nuclear poison
Posted by: rwa
» Yep... don't talk about real change.. or any change... just do the same thing you've always done..
Posted by: JoshuaLudd
» RE: Please don't use logic, we want nuclear power plants
Posted by: ng1944
» It is all about control
Posted by: ng1944
» RE: It is all about control
Posted by: richholland
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Posted by: eosrk on Apr 23, 2007 9:32 PM
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By replacing the oil cap with a breather, commonly found on most race cars and sold at auto stores all over, what happens is that oxygen is moved at a faster rate than normal, and by using the pressure differences inside the engine, it reduces carbon emissions to like, zero(0.260 grams or less).
How would this work on cars that don't require emission control systems, like hydrogen, flex-fuel cars and trucks? Simple; just drill a hole in one of your valve covers, and drill a hole(all small holes, the size of a pvc tube) into either your airbox or a part of your intake system, then run a rubber or flexible plastic tube(make sure the plastic tube is heat resistant, don't want it to melt away) between them, placing a connection at each end to be able to join them together, and the engine does the rest.
Instead of changing your oil every 3000-4000 miles, you can wait up to 7000 miles to change it, gain 5-7mpg, including what you automobile already is rated for(trust me, it will change), gain lots of horsepower, for that the engine dosen't build pressure quickly, in fact, it does what weather is for the earth.
It works even better or large and hi-performance cars and trucks.....and motorcycles, too, anything that uses fuel to make a fire, it works!!!!
If they get dirty, it's ok. Like a reuseable air filter, let the build up work in your favor, remember, the engine is breathing in and out all the time, and will be a cooler motor, which will last longer, and will be easier to maintain, which will save you the trouble of always buying a car because the old one kept failing emissions test(by the way, the carbon buildup, without the engine pressure modulation systems, cannot be avoided, for the engine dosen't "breathe"!)
In most cases, it only has to be changed once a year, and on some cars, once is enough, since for some reason the engines on them are designed better!
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Posted by: richholland on Apr 25, 2007 9:19 PM
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Our engineers and professors scrutinised Al Gore s sayings
geologically they are not true.
Of course to restrict on peak oil is not bad.
In fact in Europe many municipilities have their buses on alternative energie already.
Is it possible because USA has so many corporations that want profits they donot change into alternatives????
Because a non profit company gets his losses refund by the State.
Informally in Holland since the cold war excists so called control shelters for the authorities including food and bicyclettes to obtain electricity. (I have seen a 4personbyciclette.
In Schwitzerland even nowadays if you build a house outside town you must build also an atomic cellar,that is inspected every two monthes.
Could it be possible your authorities allready have done many alternatives but YOU donot know this.?
In many cases statecontrolled companies are less efficient but not allways as we see in Holland with gas,electricity,trains
after privatisation prices went up.
In India and Asia people want the same techno level as Europe and USA so if you follow Al Gores scenario in America
in the world nothing changes.
(USA less pollution=CHINAmore pollution.
What will your next president do? to save enviroment bomb all the coalinstallations in China????
The solution is maybe less work more vacation for you.
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Posted by: richholland on Apr 25, 2007 9:19 PM
Current rating: Not yet rated [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Our engineers and professors scrutinised Al Gore s sayings
geologically they are not true.
Of course to restrict on peak oil is not bad.
In fact in Europe many municipilities have their buses on alternative energie already.
Is it possible because USA has so many corporations that want profits they donot change into alternatives????
Because a non profit company gets his losses refund by the State.
Informally in Holland since the cold war excists so called control shelters for the authorities including food and bicyclettes to obtain electricity. (I have seen a 4personbyciclette.
In Schwitzerland even nowadays if you build a house outside town you must build also an atomic cellar,that is inspected every two monthes.
Could it be possible your authorities allready have done many alternatives but YOU donot know this.?
In many cases statecontrolled companies are less efficient but not allways as we see in Holland with gas,electricity,trains
after privatisation prices went up.
In India and Asia people want the same techno level as Europe and USA so if you follow Al Gores scenario in America
in the world nothing changes.
(USA less pollution=CHINAmore pollution.
What will your next president do? to save enviroment bomb all the coalinstallations in China????
The solution is maybe less work more vacation for you.
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Posted by: feltdragon33 on Apr 28, 2007 12:23 AM
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Posted by: waterislifeaguaesvida on Apr 28, 2007 8:53 AM
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This issue requires a political settlement that involves large, capital-intensive sectors of the American economy. It is pure folly to expect there to be a negotiating table set up as things stand. The governors and mayors of American have initiated much of the current activity. There needs to be a political mandate that is defined through the Congressional and Presidential elections specifically to move from no-action to a Preferred Scenario that will have the needed impact on global warming.
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Posted by: Temporary on Apr 21, 2007 12:30 AM
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» RE: HAH HAH!
Posted by: baldo
» RE: HAH HAH!
Posted by: Uncle Crabby
» Buying the line?
Posted by: rwa
» And yet...
Posted by: JoshuaLudd
» Decades since three mile island in fact
Posted by: rwa
» RE: Decades since three mile island in fact
Posted by: JoshuaLudd
» Sounds like you subscribe to Dominion Over Nature
Posted by: rwa
» I love how you just fit me into whatever pigeon hole comes next...
Posted by: JoshuaLudd
» RE: Decades since three mile island in fact
Posted by: heftysmurf
» What's the "conensus" on GMOs and food irradiation?
Posted by: rwa
» Analysis: Global nuclear boom expected
Posted by: rwa
» This is an example of how dogmatism reveals its own insecurity.
Posted by: Sojourner
» RE: HAH HAH! HAARP
Posted by: futurefarm
» Keep these mad greens away
Posted by: ng1944
Comments are closed-
Posted by: HughScott on Apr 21, 2007 3:05 AM
Current rating: Not yet rated [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Global warming is important but it can wait. Let's talk about why our kids are losing their lives and limbs in Iraq and what we can do to stop it.
Hugh E. Scott, editor of King-George.biz -- the only website with hardcopy proof of White House corruption. AlterNet readers who object to my NON-PROFIT campaign to expose President Bush as a lying crook can email me through the website rather than comment here.
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» RE: nough of global warming. AlterNet. Get back on Iraq and our incompetent commander-in-chief.
Posted by: baldo
» EVERY DAY should be "Earth Day", baldo --not just once a year. As for Iraq, AlterNet has not...
Posted by: HughScott
» RE: nough of global warming. AlterNet. Get back on Iraq and our incompetent commander-in-chief.
Posted by: particle
» Since April 15, AlterNet has posted 50 articles and NOT ONE dealt with GIs in Iraq and returnees.
Posted by: HughScott
» RE: Since April 15, AlterNet has posted 50 articles and NOT ONE dealt with GIs in Iraq and returnees
Posted by: particle
» I submitted matrial to AlterNet but received no response. Politico published me, however.
Posted by: HughScott
» Whoops. I meant "material." Maybe that's why AlterNet never responded. Oh, well...
Posted by: HughScott
» RE: Whoops. I meant "material." Maybe that's why AlterNet never responded. Oh, well...
Posted by: particle
» I don't think anyone avoids the topic of climate change because Iraq is more important
Posted by: Beck
» Greenies are nothing but pampered middleclass wimps.
Posted by: HughScott
» All related: End OIL addiction, heal the environment, then ignore the Middle East
Posted by: karma_ran_over_dogma
» You're right, karma. They're all related, but Iraq must be settled first, for the sake of our GIs.
Posted by: HughScott
» PS: My pool is solar heated and I replaced EVERY light bulb with those low-power neon things.
Posted by: HughScott
» A f*cking POOL! And you call "greenies" "pampered middle-class wimps"!
Posted by: karma_ran_over_dogma
» I built the pool 40 years when prices were cheap and my home cost $27,500. So there!
Posted by: HughScott
» RE: Global Warming is the Crisis that Spawns All Others
Posted by: edgar_michel
» RE: nough of global warming. AlterNet. Get back on Iraq and our incompetent commander-in-chief.
Posted by: disgustedandamused
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Posted by: utilitarianist on Apr 21, 2007 3:20 AM
Current rating: Not yet rated [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
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» RE: Nuclear power.
Posted by: Fat Man at the Buffet Line
» RE: Nuclear power.
Posted by: TagsNOLA
» RE: Nuclear power.
Posted by: AlienSlave
» Seas absorb half of carbon dioxide pollution
Posted by: lessbread
» RE: Nuclear power.
Posted by: bornxeyed
» RE: Nuclear power.
Posted by: AlienSlave
» RE: Nuclear power.
Posted by: particle
» RE: Nuclear power.
Posted by: bornxeyed
» RE: Nuclear power.
Posted by: AlienSlave
» RE: Nuclear power.
Posted by: Fat Man at the Buffet Line
» RE: Nuclear power.
Posted by: AlienSlave
» RE: Nuclear power. Insane.
Posted by: Aimee
» RE: Nuclear power. Insane.
Posted by: Benjaminsjw
» RE: Nuclear power. Insane.
Posted by: jmp3954
» response to all your responses
Posted by: utilitarianist
» RE: response to all your responses Aliensalve
Posted by: AlienSlave
» Take into account inflation, compare with share prices in the 60s and the same shares today.
Posted by: utilitarianist
» RE: Take into account inflation, compare with share prices in the 60s and the same shares today.
Posted by: AlienSlave
» RE: Nuclear Power, Earth Meltdown.
Posted by: edgar_michel
» No, utilitarianist...
Posted by: JoshuaLudd
» RE: No, utilitarianist...
Posted by: jmp3954
» RE: No, utilitarianist...
Posted by: JoshuaLudd
» And further...
Posted by: JoshuaLudd
» RE: And further...
Posted by: jmp3954
» Also... your happiness factories...
Posted by: JoshuaLudd
Comments are closed-
Posted by: progressivetype on Apr 21, 2007 5:25 AM
Current rating: Not yet rated [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Efficient: CFL's are four times more efficient and last up to 10 times longer than incandescents. A 22 watt CFL has about the same light output as a 100 watt incandescent. CFL's use 50 - 80% less energy than incandescents.
Less Expensive: Although initially more expensive, you save money in the long run because CFL's use 1/3 the electricity and last up to 10 times as long as incandescents. A single 18 watt CFL used in place of a 75 watt incandescent will save about 570 kWh over its lifetime. At 8 cents per kWh, that equates to a $45 savings.
High-Quality Light: Newer CFL's give a warm, inviting light instead of the "cool white" light of older fluorescents. They use rare earth phosphors for excellent color and warmth. New electronically ballasted CFL's don't flicker or hum.
Versatile: CFL's can be applied nearly anywhere that incandescent lights are used.
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» WHERE TO BUY CFL'S ONLINE HERE!!!
Posted by: writeval
» thanks for the info
Posted by: counterpoint
» RE: Switched to CFL's
Posted by: Basenjis
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Posted by: AlienSlave on Apr 21, 2007 5:54 AM
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AlienSlave
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» hilarious!
Posted by: veggiegrrrl
» RE: hilarious!
Posted by: AlienSlave
» RE: hilarious!
Posted by: counterpoint
» RE: hilarious!
Posted by: AlienSlave
» RE: 7 years of tribulation ;P
Posted by: Fat Man at the Buffet Line
» RE: 7 years of tribulation ;P
Posted by: AlienSlave
Comments are closed-
Posted by: BillDouglas on Apr 21, 2007 6:07 AM
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What is holding this back? The endless War on Terror. This endless war is based on the lies of 9/11.
To liberate the global consciousness from false prioritizing, we must expose the lies of 9/11 by demanding in mass a new fully independent 9/11 investigation free of Bush Admin control (like the last one was. ie Philip Zelikow).
Nearly 100 high level military and intelligence experts now say we've been lied to, many stating outright the facts of 9/11 point to "inside job at the highest echelons of the US govt." See: PatriotsQuestion911.org
Also view by googling "9/11 Mysteries" a full free documentary on 9/11 that will set your hair of fire. Share it with all you know.
Lastly, go to youtube and search "BBC WTC 7 9/11" and learn that the BBC had foreknowledge of the collapse of Building 7, the Soloman Brothers Building.
By exposing the lies of 9/11, . . . the endless war on terror goes away. American wake up for their militaristic fear based trance, and we can return to the real work needed for human progress.
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» You'd never think we had a first industrial revolution, the way we're trying to stall a second
Posted by: Beck
» Maybe it came from...
Posted by: JoshuaLudd
» Good Grief Bill....
Posted by: gogreen
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Posted by: Aimee on Apr 21, 2007 6:22 AM
Current rating: Not yet rated [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Watch the show.
"We are all children of the Great Spirit, we all belong to Mother Earth. Our planet is in great trouble and if we keep carrying old grudges and do not work together, we will all die." - CHIEF SEATTLE
Aimee
DataOptions.com
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» CHIEF SEATTLE
Posted by: Sparks56
» RE: CHIEF SEATTLE
Posted by: Aimee
» Chief Seattle to President Franklin Pierce, 1855
Posted by: saywhat
» Chief Seattle letter was from movie
Posted by: Dartagnan
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Posted by: VannaLaRoche on Apr 21, 2007 6:41 AM
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And some think humans are "our greatest natural resource." That may be true--they are edible and renewable.
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» humans are not precious
Posted by: veggiegrrrl
» Any species that has done what we have done to itself and the planet..
Posted by: JoshuaLudd
» RE: Any species that has done what we have done...
Posted by: Dartagnan
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Posted by: ABetterFuture on Apr 21, 2007 7:36 AM
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If we imposed a higher tax penalty on fuels, then sure, you might force your average hard working low-income citizens onto a bus (where available). Therefore, we consume less...the supply goes up....prices fall...and hard-working Americans end up subsidizing econonomic expansion in other countries fueled by cheap energy (especially oil) who'll burn it without the many emissions restrictions that we place on fuels here. Make no mistake, our neighbors who can't afford black gold at $60 or $70 a barrel will drain the dregs at $25 or $30, riding the backs of ideological market tampering here at home. Allowing our neighbors to gobble up every last drop while starving Americans for energy and....well, just plain starving Americans isn't the way forward. How many farm tractors can be run on that snazzy "new" moonshine technology, after all? (Not that that's what Dr. Hansen has proposed here, thank goodness. As always, I'm just searching for reasonable alternatives.)
So, while the speaker has impeccable credentials, he needs to take a world view of energy consumption with regard to political policy. It turns out that we're not the only ones on the planet who like energy, and politicians (even bad ones) have to weigh the wants and needs of their constituency against what science suggests, as it has always been. Dr. Hansen, after all, isn't in danger of losing his job if his advice is heeded and half his state wakes up tomorrow unable to afford to get to work. I bet his senator is.
I don't know anything in our Constitution that says that the executive branch should filter scientific information going to Congressional committees.
^ Without a doubt, the most logical, best argued point in the entire article.
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» You can be a Dr. too; just change your name legally to Dr.
Posted by: edith
» Meh. I was trying to be generous. nm
Posted by: ABetterFuture
» RE: You can be a Dr. too; just change your name legally to Dr.
Posted by: bornxeyed
» Same thing every time.. grandmas and babies...
Posted by: JoshuaLudd
» "Same thing..." Of course. When you think you're correct, be consistent.
Posted by: ABetterFuture
» RE: "Same thing..." Of course. When you think you're correct, be consistent.
Posted by: JoshuaLudd
Comments are closed-
Posted by: chiefbluesky on Apr 21, 2007 8:01 AM
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» RE: You are ignoring the 500 pound Gorilla in the room!
Posted by: Muty
» RE: You are ignoring the 500 pound Gorilla in the room!
Posted by: Basenjis
» 1 to 1 ratio?
Posted by: edith
» RE: 1 to 1 ratio?
Posted by: chiefbluesky
» RE: 1 to 1 ratio?
Posted by: bornxeyed
» RE: You are ignoring the 500 pound Gorilla in the room!
Posted by: Sparks56
» RE: You are ignoring the 500 pound Gorilla in the room!
Posted by: anthroman
» RE: You are ignoring the 500 pound Gorilla in the room!
Posted by: Sparks56
Comments are closed-
Posted by: writeval on Apr 21, 2007 8:48 AM
Current rating: Not yet rated [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Here's the cheapest source I've found for the absolute best traditionally-shaped CFL bulb out there, the MaxLite ($5.49 apiece):
http://www.okelectricsupply.com/ma13wprlasas.html
This one replaces your standard 60-watt traditional bulb. Looks practically the same so you can use them in fixtures where they're visible, great warm light, comes on immediately, no noise!
While I'm at it - www.environmentaldefense.org has two wonderful little programs.
http://www.environmentaldefense.org/page.cfm?tagid=632
(a quick questionnaire to locate the type of CFL bulb you need, and links to buy)
http://www.environmentaldefense.org/page.cfm?tagID=602
(a fun and amazing little calculator to determine how much money you save, and CO2 you keep out of the environment, by switching to CFLs throughout your home. The results are stunning.)
PLEASE -- Alternet readers -- make the CFL switch, pass along these links to your friends, and buy everybody CFL's for a weird but enlightening Christmas/Chanukkah present. :) This can make a HUGE difference!
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» RE: Do your part -- switch to CFL bulbs! Links listed here!
Posted by: Sparks56
» RE: Do your part -- switch to CFL bulbs! Links listed here!
Posted by: bornxeyed
Comments are closed-
Posted by: Arousiak on Apr 21, 2007 8:57 AM
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Here's your chance to not vacuum, or do laundry or any sunday chores! Instead, hang out with friends, take a long ramble, have candlelit sexytime with loved ones, tell ghost stories, stare blankly, write with a pen in the dark-see
what comes out, dance around to the music in your head, or to a friend's acoustic guitar,drink wine, and
enjoy an evening without noisy distractions. and you save money, hello.
If you got the notion, PLEASE take a moment to pass this along to your friends and spread the word. It really does make a difference.
if you want to tell us about your experience, or just to confirm your participation, write to Pluggout@yahoo.com (note double g's). It will be great to hear from different people.
I hope you'll join us, EY?
And for just a couple of everyday power/cashmoney savings:
*Instead of plugging things into walls, use power strips and turn them off easily when not in use, especially when you are on Vacation. Don't leave chargers plugged in. Turn off everything, empty your fridge if you'll be
gone a while, and turn that off as well.
*Switch to Green Power. In NY Con Edison Solutions offers an easy switch to Wind Power. You pay a wee bit more, but if you use good sense (see above) you'll actually end up saving in the long run. go to:
http://www.conedsolutions.com/residentialgreenpowermain.htm
This was inspired by my awesome friend Sacha Jones who can be found at http://www.stigglynyc.com/
We hope to have a website up and running in the next couple of months encouraging regular Plug It Out days throughout the year.
Thank you all.
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Posted by: ncg96773 on Apr 21, 2007 9:27 AM
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» RE: STORING HUMAN NATURE MUST COME FIRST
Posted by: Basenjis
» RE: estoration of Clarity In Language by Use of Paragraphs Must Come First. N/M
Posted by: ncg96773
Comments are closed-
Posted by: Sojourner on Apr 21, 2007 9:52 AM
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We are committing suicide by our own technology.
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» RE: Do whales and dolphins "beach" themselves when their environment is toxic?
Posted by: Basenjis
» RE: Do whales and dolphins "beach" themselves when their environment is toxic?
Posted by: JoshuaLudd
Comments are closed-
Posted by: dayahka on Apr 21, 2007 9:58 AM
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This whole article is based on false premises and pseudo-scientific reasoning. Every time Alternet prints rubbish like this they diminish their credibility in other areas.
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» I can put my finger to the wind too
Posted by: edith
» Global Mean Temperature
Posted by: bornxeyed
» RE: Same old Nonsense
Posted by: bornxeyed
» RE: Same old Nonsense
Posted by: heftysmurf
Comments are closed-
Posted by: saywhat on Apr 21, 2007 10:03 AM
Current rating: Not yet rated [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Chemtrails are not the natural contrails from the airlines.
Most of the United States has poison chemtrails overhead four days out of seven.
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Posted by: saywhat on Apr 21, 2007 10:51 AM
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» RE: Chemtrails "exotic weapons system" re: Congressman
Posted by: CriminallySane
» troll alert
Posted by: counterpoint
» Thanks! And PLEASE read the info on Senate Bill 517
Posted by: saywhat
» RE: Chemtrails "exotic weapons system" re: Congressman
Posted by: bornxeyed
» Weather Modification; US Senate bill S517
Posted by: saywhat
Comments are closed-
Posted by: counterpoint on Apr 21, 2007 10:54 AM
Current rating: Not yet rated [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
(I did not tell him I'm an atheist who knows full well that theological 'reasons' based on 'scripture' are arbitrary as most every position can somehow be argued with biblical quotes).Here goes:
To
Trinity United Methodist Church, Denver, Colorado
Dear Rev. Dent,
I noticed your invitation for Sunday's service in the Rocky Mountain News, titled "Penguins, polar bears & people" and want to thank you for it.
First, for addressing the all-important issue of climate change in front of your congregation, and second, for advertising what you are doing to the public. People need to realize that mainline Christian churches are not buying into the right wing propaganda dished out in evangelical churches, and also that they are on firm theological ground to advocate environmental responsibility.
I will mail you a copy of a speech by an eminent climatologist, Stephen Schneider of Standford U. I filmed him at Jefferson Unitarian Church this spring. He argued that the issue of climate change very quickly leaves the terrain of science and becomes one of political judgement and values. In a nutshell, the answer to incalculable risk is insurance. When he asked the 200 people at JUC who had ever had fire damage to their home 2 people responded, a typical statistic. But when he asked who had fire insurance, all hands went up. In essence, we insure against catastrophic risks that are much less likely than the risk of catastrophic climate change which has been scientifically determined to carry a comparatively high risk. It's worth emphasizing that what is still uncertain is the degree to which climate change will affect us, not the fact that it's occurring, and action is required in any case. In addition, the measures to stabilize climate also have substantial side benefits as the world's economies shift into modes of production using renewable energy.
My wife, a science prof at the School of Mines, was very impressed with Schneider's talk because he didn't hype anything (unlike some environmentalists) and because of his focus on the need to develop policy actions in the face of situations that are not 100% certain.
Again, thanks for making a dent! (You've heard that one before...)
My Name
PS: My brother and his wife are both protestant ministers in Germany, he tells me the idea of stewardship has long since won out over the idea of man's divine mandate to subjugate earth, and that few wallow in the sado-masochist phantasies of an imminent rapture (only those converted by aggressive American missionaries, to be precise.)
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» Hey God: Stay Out of Politics
Posted by: edith
» RE: Hey God: Stay Out of Politics
Posted by: Sparks56
» RE: mainline churches are starting to act on climate change
Posted by: leedavis546@msn.com
Comments are closed-
Posted by: rwa on Apr 21, 2007 11:04 AM
Current rating: Not yet rated [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
... to reduce gasoline usage in the United States by 20 percent within ten years!
What’s so great about achieving that goal?
"When we do that we will have cut our total imports by the equivalent of three-quarters of all the oil we now import from the Middle East."
"To reach this goal, we must increase the supply of alternative fuels, by setting a mandatory fuels standard to require 35 billion gallons of renewable and alternative fuels in 2017."
Of course, if Bush goes ahead and does unto Iran what he did to Iraqi, our total imports of oil from the Middle East will be cut for us, by the Iranians, before Bush even leaves office, long before we achieve that goal.
Hence, Bush ought either to forego his impending War of Aggression against Iran, or ask Congress to require the production of 35 billion gallons per year of ethanol (from corn) before he leaves office.
No doubt the 110th Congress will support Bush’s impending attack on the Mullahs (and their non-existent nuclear-weapons program), especially if it means the next President can focus on assisting the "farm lobby" solve the principal remaining "threat" to our National Security (indeed, according to Al Gore, to the "survival of our civilization"): Climate Change.
The CNA Corporation has just issued a report of its Military Advisory Board entitled "National Security and the Threat of Climate Change."
"The nature and pace of climate changes being observed today and the consequences projected by the consensus scientific opinion are grave and pose equally grave implications for our national security."
According to the Board
"Climate change, national security, and energy dependence are a related set of global challenges.
"As President Bush noted in his 2007 State of the Union speech, dependence on foreign oil leaves us more vulnerable to hostile regimes and terrorists, and clean domestic energy alternatives help us confront the serious challenge of global climate change.
"Because the issues are linked, solutions to one affect the other."
The Board adopted the latest assessment of the International Panel on Climate Change.
"Carbon dioxide, methane, and nitrous oxide have increased markedly as a result of human activities since 1750 and now far exceed pre-industrial values.
"The amount of carbon dioxide in the atmosphere in 2005 [1774 ppm] exceeds by far the natural range of the last 650,000 years (180 to 300 ppm).
"The primary source of the increase in carbon dioxide is fossil fuel use."
So, how does the IPCC come to those conclusions?
And what are "fossil fuels"?
Well, according to Wikipedia, fossil fuels are buried combustible geologic deposits of hydrocarbon materials, formed from decayed plants and animals that have been converted to crude oil, coal, and natural gas by exposure to heat and pressure in the earth’s crust over hundreds of millions of years.
So what distinguishes such organic hydrocarbons from inorganic hydrocarbons?
Recall that isotopes are atoms that have the same chemical properties but have different physical properties. About 1.11 percent of the stable carbon atoms are C-13. The rest are C-12.
Plants take carbon dioxide out of the air and – through the process known as photosynthesis – fixate nitrogen, enabling them to eventually produce the 20 amino acids that both plants and animals need to live.
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» RE: thanol: A Threat to National Security? by Gordon Prather #1
Posted by: bornxeyed
» Read Deep Hot Biospere by Goldman
Posted by: rwa
Comments are closed-
Posted by: rwa on Apr 21, 2007 11:05 AM
Current rating: Not yet rated [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Hence, there is a measurable C-13 deficiency in carbon dioxide that has been produced by burning something organic, like a tree, for example.
But on the basis of C-13 deficiency analysis of oil and gas found at considerable depths beneath the earth's surface, there is reason to believe fossil fuels may not be organic in origin after all.
Nobel Laureate Sir Robert Robinson, who investigated the chemistry of natural petroleum in some detail, noted that the deeper one goes into the earth's crust to find the oil reservoir, the fewer are the signs of anything biological in the oil one finds.
True, there are signs of organic activity – microbial life – in oil found near the surface. But as the depth from which the oil is obtained is increased – to the depths where microbes aren't found – the more nearly the C-13 deficit disappears.
Robinson concluded:
"Actually it cannot be too strongly emphasized that petroleum does not present the composition picture expected from modified biogenic products, and all the arguments from the constituents of ancient oils fit equally well, or better, with the conception of a primordial hydrocarbon mixture to which bio-products have been added."
Why does that matter?
Well, the measured C-13/C-12 ratio of CO2 in the atmosphere has decreased over the last 200 years by 1.5 parts per thousand. The IPCC assumes that decrease has resulted from a huge increase in additions of "organic" CO2. Since the IPCC assumes coal, oil and natural gas are "organic" hydrocarbons, the IPCC concludes that mankind is "very likely" [90% certain] to be responsible for that CO2 increase.
But, since the isotopic carbon ratios for natural gas obtained from great depths is indistinguishable from the methane ejected in volcanic eruptions, it follows that the carbon dioxide produced by burning natural gas obtained from deep reservoirs is also indistinguishable from the carbon dioxide ejected in volcanic eruptions.
Similarly, methanol produced from natural gas obtained from great depths will not have an organic C-13/C-12 ratio.
How about ethanol, produced from Iowa corn or Brazilian sugarcane?
Will that ethanol have an organic C-13/C-12 ratio? Will burning 35 billion gallons per year of that stuff contribute – according to IPCC lights – to Climate Change? Will burning all that organic ethanol contribute to our National Security problem?
You bet your sweet bippy.
http://www.antiwar.com/prather/?articleid=10848
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» RE: ethanol: A Threat to National Security? #2
Posted by: MartianBachelor
» Did you read the article?
Posted by: rwa
Comments are closed-
Posted by: CriminallySane on Apr 21, 2007 11:33 AM
Current rating: Not yet rated [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
That goal has been endorsed by the US Conference of Mayors, but you can't do it on a city-by-city basis. You need national standards.
That's the rub, right there. Nothing we as individuals do will matter unless and until addressing things like this becomes national policy. And then, and only then, will we have the moral standing to tell anyone else what they might do and how they might help.
All the rest is just feel-good stuff. Moral, yes. Effective...not so much.
And it's not only raising the cost of using CO2-generating fuels, it's absolutely vital to put a national-policy-level effort behind developing alternative power and transport systems and infrastructures. The Luddite extremists, who would have everyone become a mud-grubbing subsistence farmer, are as delusional as those who say there's nothing wrong. We don't move backwards, we move forward. Or we end right here.
Does anyone really claim life would be better if we all went back to near-medieval conditions? To never traveling more than 25 miles from home in our entire lives? Never knowing what's on "the other side"? No more culture or knowledge transmitted not only across space, but through time. No more contact with our fellows across the oceans or even on the other side of a mountain. No more vaccines. No more medical treatments of most kinds, for that matter. Break a leg someplace inopportune, you die. Want that for your kids? Great. You first...
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» RE: National policy is vital.
Posted by: richholland
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Posted by: sonex on Apr 21, 2007 11:49 AM
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» You are easily deceived
Posted by: counterpoint
» You're beautiful. Most of the b.s. on this page is,
Posted by: saywhat
» RE: You are easily deceived
Posted by: Jonnieprince
» RE: You are easily deceived
Posted by: heftysmurf
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Posted by: rtaylor71101 on Apr 21, 2007 12:26 PM
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Despite what you hear on the tube, hundreds of climatologists have not signed on to the carbon dioxide green house theory. Al Gore's information about the increasing CO2 in the atmosphere is slanted to look like a disaster is about to occur. I don’t have the space in this short comment to adequately explain how the first half of the data for the CO2 "hockey stick" curve was taken from ice cores while the second half, the one that is increasing so rapidly, is taken from measurements on the Hawaiian volcanic island of Manua Loa. Eruptions from this volcano have increased in the past 50 years. Since CO2 is part of the gases that vent from volcanic eruptions, you would expect CO2 to increase rapidly over this island. Yet the world is being led to believe that this represents the entire planet. CO2 represents a very small portion of the total green house gases. Water vapor represents 95% yet it is not even mentioned in the documentary, An Inconvenient Truth.
These are the observations that scientists are really seeing around the world and the solar system that clearly show that man's industrialization has perhaps only a minor effect on climate change. The planets of the solar system all show signs of heating up because of increasing solar activity. This also coincides with historic data. Submarine volcanic activity has increased in the last couple of decades. Seventy five percent of the volcanoes in the world are under the ocean. There are some 5000 volcanos under the ocean. And they are erupting everywhere. Even under the Artic Ocean and next to the continent of Antarctica. These eruptions vent very hot magma and geothermal plumes of water with temperatures of 500 to 800 degrees into the oceans. Some of these eruptions are not just confined to the aerial extent of a typical volcano. They are basaltic lava flows that cover hundreds of square miles and are in some cases a 1000' thick. Giant plumes of superheated water tens of miles long have also been observed.
Since the largest CO2 reservoir in the world is the ocean, when oceans warm, CO2 is expelled. How much? I really don’t know. This issue of marine volcanoes has basically been ignored by the scientists that have signed on to the global warming issue. Why? This is just my speculation, but some of these advocates of global warming do receive grants for study of the issue from institutes, foundations, etc. that want only their point of view explained as the rational explanation for climate change.
Other points. Hundreds of glaciers around the world including parts of the Artic and Antarctica are growing. Sea levels around the world are lowering. This is evidence that is not discussed in An Inconvenient Truth. Also; the earth has been much warmer in the recent past. In the Medieval Warm Period, which peaked around 1000 years ago, Vikings had farms and settlements in parts of Greenland that are very cold today. Also England had vineyards, Europe was warmer. This is an historic fact. What we are experiencing today is a natural climate change. And humans can do nothing about it except adapt. Actually a warmer world means more vegetation, thus more food.
The Global Warming Issue is about control and money.
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» RE: We must study all of the Global Warming evidence.
Posted by: counterpoint
» Basically, fossil fuel interests fear loss of market share, so they hire PR trolls to tell lies...
Posted by: thoughtcriminal
» RE: We must study all of the Global Warming evidence.
Posted by: caerbannog
» RE: We must study all of the Global Warming evidence.
Posted by: MartianBachelor
» You obviously know nothing about solar energy output
Posted by: rwa
» RE: You obviously know nothing about solar energy output
Posted by: caerbannog
» RE: You obviously know nothing about solar energy output
Posted by: heftysmurf
» RE: You obviously know nothing about solar energy output
Posted by: rwa
» RE: We must study all of the Global Warming evidence.
Posted by: bornxeyed
» RE: We must study all of the Global Warming evidence.
Posted by: lessbread
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Posted by: HughScott on Apr 21, 2007 1:17 PM
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ANSWER: Greenies are pampered middleclass wimps who don’t have a clue about what REAL protest and activism is.
I listed my protest activities over a 40-year period under another article that AlterNet published today about global warming titled, “The Most Sexiest Greenest Unlikely Story of the Year.”
Bloggers eager to rebut me should read about my activist background before continuing, Meanwhile here’s something they should consider.
At this moment in American history, NOTHING is more important than ending the Iraq War, which is killing hundreds of innocent Iraqis each week and dozens of GIs, not mention thousands of injured and wounded -- all in the name of George W. Bush’s imperialist scheme to control Middle East oil. Yet there is no outrage, no picket lines around the White House, no sit-down strikes on university campuses. Until that happens, all this bullshit about global warming will remain just that. BULLSHIT!
Hugh E. Scott, editor of King-George.biz -- the only website with hardcopy proof of White House corruption. AlterNet readers who object to my NON-PROFIT campaign to expose President Bush as a lying crook can email me through the website rather than comment here.
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» No, it's related: No more wars for oil when we no longer need the oil
Posted by: karma_ran_over_dogma
» With all due respect, rwa, you need to bone up on peak oil.
Posted by: HughScott
» Get with it
Posted by: rwa
» Agree, Agree
Posted by: Sparks56
» Always America First!!!
Posted by: lessbread
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Posted by: ggmurray on Apr 21, 2007 2:42 PM
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Now is the time to develop those training programs and tax incentives for those who are willing to convert to the new technologies.
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» Dream on
Posted by: rwa
» Salsa On the Roof
Posted by: edith
» But building the coal-fired power plants that you feel we still need.....
Posted by: mjabele
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Posted by: edith on Apr 21, 2007 4:07 PM
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2. Certainly more stringent fuel efficiency standards and repricing of carbon base products suggested by Hansen are reasonable suggestions if done in accordance with free, competitive choice and not top down, command and control Soviet style economics.
3. Hansen displays however a level of certainty that I do not recall the IPCC had of significantly higher sea levels. I am sure there is a quantitative basis for his estimates. However I would doubt that the scientific community shares Hansen's certainty as to the precise level or magnitude of sea level change, or ice sheet thickness, for that matter.
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» wrong again
Posted by: MartianBachelor
» Waiting For the Man
Posted by: edith
» RE: Waiting For the Man
Posted by: mjabele
» RE: Waiting For the Man
Posted by: heftysmurf
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Posted by: magistre on Apr 21, 2007 6:26 PM
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» RE: Just a few things...
Posted by: MartianBachelor
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Posted by: thoughtcriminal on Apr 21, 2007 6:39 PM
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The Wall Street Seven, UCS
A first step towards preventing the high end climate change outcome is to stop those 150 coal-fired power plants from being built.
At the same time, there will have to be a massive investment in renewable energy systems, including storage and delivery, that will cost trillions of dollars, but which will also create an entirely new economy.
Who doesn't want to see the world get off fossil fuels? Everyone from Wall Street and London banks to Saudi and Iranian and Venezuelan and Russian oil ministers - the entire global economic system currently revolves around fossil fuel use. Vested fossil fuel economic interests are resistant to loss of sales and market share; that's why they're spending 100's of millions on a global disinformation campaign, just as the tobacco industry did - to protect their billions in sales revenue.
Change is tough, but will have to happen - and halting the use of coal should be the first priority, since it's far dirtier and lower in energy content than natural gas. If China bans new coal-fired power plants, why can't the US?
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Posted by: Sparks56 on Apr 22, 2007 2:27 AM
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Nobody is talking about this.
There was a book published in the 70's called "The Population Bomb". It needs to be re-issued.
If your cause does not include population control, it's a lost cause.
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Posted by: rwa on Apr 22, 2007 6:47 AM
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Predictions:
complete end of petroleum by the mid-eighties followed by
massive human die off.
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» RE: The population Bomb
Posted by: Sparks56
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Posted by: rwa on Apr 22, 2007 7:00 AM
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But fossil-fuel prices have skyrocketed and stayed there, and a new mainstream concern over global climate change may lead to the regulation of polluting emissions, which makes nuclear a better competitor.
"I'll be very surprised if the U.S. does not make a decision to build within the next five years," Wang said. "I think the U.S. looks very promising. It's a matter of how big of a build it is." The Nuclear Regulatory Commission expects applications for around 30 new reactors in the coming decade, including a dozen moving quick to take advantage of new federal financial incentives.
The NRC has created a new licensing process as well, hoping to reduce regulatory costs and time frame...
"Rising energy demand, a concern for the environment and a proven record of operating nuclear power plants safely and efficiently are all contributing to a renewed interest in nuclear power," Conrad said. "The recent approval of early site permits and the announced intentions to seek combined construction and operating licenses are concrete steps toward the development of new nuclear power in this country." A recent study by the Congressional Research Service, however, found extending federal incentives are vital for new nuclear in the United States, unless its competition is priced out.
"Under base case conditions, it seems unlikely that a new nuclear power plant would be constructed in the United States, barring a sustained, long-term increase in natural-gas prices and the creation of a substantial, mandatory greenhouse gas reduction program that would increase coal-fired and natural gas-fired generating costs," it said.
http://www.earthtimes.org/articles/show/48828.html
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Posted by: eniranjanrao@gmail.com on Apr 22, 2007 7:16 AM
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» Quo Vadis?
Posted by: edith
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Posted by: rwa on Apr 22, 2007 7:38 AM
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Khatami told a Kazakhstan television station that Iran is like any other developing nation and is developing nuclear power to conserve its hydrocarbons and improver the environment.
"The world's developed countries are using nuclear energy and trying to replace fossil fuels with other sources of energy for a better environment and Iran wants to do the same," Khatami said.
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» RE: Khatami: Iran nuke program has green tone
Posted by: jmp3954
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Posted by: rwa on Apr 22, 2007 7:51 AM
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Official documents reveal volunteers drank and inhaled infected material to assess contamination risks
DOZENS OF people drank, inhaled or were injected with radioactivity as part of a series of secret experiments carried out by the nuclear industry in the 1960s, according to official documents passed to the Sunday Herald.
Tests exposing humans to radioactive caesium, iodine, strontium and uranium were conducted despite doubts about their legal and ethical implications. One proposal even envisaged injecting plutonium into elderly people to help assess contamination risks.
The new evidence could form part of the government inquiry launched last week into the industry's shady past...
Now documents from the National Archives in London have shed new light on other scandals involving the nuclear industry. A memo from the UK Atomic Energy Authority (UKAEA) in August 1965 summarised a series of "experiments involving exposure of volunteers to radiation".
It said 10 volunteers from Harwell in Oxfordshire drank a liquid containing caesium-132 and caesium-134 in November 1962. Two volunteers from Sellafield, then known as Windscale, also ingested some strontium 90 to investigate "uptake by the gut".
A further 18 volunteers at Harwell in 1964 breathed in a vapour of methyl iodide-132 to test its retention in the thyroid gland. If anyone became ill as a result, the memo said, they would be able to sue for damages, though the risk was dismissed as "negligible".
A letter from May 1968 mentioned moral and practical concerns raised over two uranium tests planned for the Springfield nuclear plant near Preston.
Another memo from 1962 referred to highly controversial US experiments in which elderly and sick hospital patients were injected with plutonium. It suggested carrying out a similar experiment in the UK, mentioning old people as potential candidates.
The nuclear researcher and consultant who unearthed the documents, Dr David Lowry, has offered to submit his evidence to the Redfern inquiry. "The revelations put a large question mark against official reassurances given by the nuclear industry to successive public inquiries that radiation protection measures were adequate," he said.
Lowry, co-author of a forthcoming book on nuclear power, is particularly concerned about the way he alleges the UKAEA planned to spin the human experiments. "The nuclear industry must learn that the public demands the whole truth not half-truths when it comes to public health and safety," he said.
One memo from January 1963 recommended against announcing experiments before they began. Instead it suggested providing a brief for public relations staff "for use only if the experiments become public knowledge"...
The meeting also discussed the "ethical problems" of feeding radioactively contaminated whelks from near Sellafield to children...
The UKAEA is investigating whether any tissue from workers who had died at the Dounreay nuclear plant in the north of Scotland had been involved in the experiments. It is expecting to make a statement next week, and submit evidence to the Redfern inquiry...
The need to develop nuclear power and nuclear weapons were "adequate justification" for exposing workers, one 1963 memo said.
http://www.sundayherald.com/news/her aldnews/display.var.1346632.0.hu mans_in_secret_radioactive_tests.php
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Posted by: thoughtcriminal on Apr 22, 2007 9:23 AM
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Speaking Diné to Dirty Power: Navajo Challenge New Coal-Fired Plant
by Jeff Conant, Special to CorpWatch
April 3rd, 2007
In a makeshift hut on a hilltop in the high desert near Farmington, New Mexico, local schoolteacher David Nez projects a PowerPoint presentation on a blanket nailed to the wall. Outside the door, a small wind and solar generator silently provides the electricity for his computer-aided presentation. Less than a mile away, a different technology rules. Smoke plumes mark the horizon from huge coal-fired power plants, as an enormous crane rips into the Navajo coal mine, the largest open pit mine in the western U.S.
If plans go through for a massive new plant, co-owned by Houston-based Sithe Global Power and the Diné Power Authority (DPA), another coal-fired facility will generate electricity on the lands of the Diné indigenous peoples (also known as the Navajo by the colonizers). This tribal enterprise has split the Navajo Nation, with some praising the opportunity for economic development and others decrying the inevitable effect on environment and values.
Elouise Brown, Hank Dixon, Nez and a few of their Navajo elders have gathered in the rustic hut to figure out how to block the new construction. Brown found out about the project in December when she came on a man drilling a test well on her family’s grazing land. She cornered the worker and forced him to leave. That same day she established a blockade at the site now known as the Dooda Desert Rock vigil (Dooda means “no” in the Diné language). Even without the new project a dense curtain of brown smog hangs over the desert between the site of the vigil and the distant silhouette of Shiprock peak.
The plant would burn 5.5 million tons of Navajo coal per year and produce 1,500 megawatts of electricity for the fast-growing cities of the Southwest. "You will hear that the Navajo Nation supports this power plant, but grassroots people do not support this," said Nez, who lives 20 miles from the site of the proposed plant.
Hank Dixon, a young Navajo whose family’s land is impacted by the project, called the decision-making process “undemocratic.”
Banning coal is absolutely necessary.
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» Coal-free by what year?
Posted by: edith
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Posted by: han on Apr 22, 2007 9:56 AM
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1) The sun shines
2) Tree grows and filter CO2 from the air
3) We chop down trees and burn then and use the energy and turn wood in CO2.
So lets start growing massive forrests, and filter all that CO2 from the atmosphere. And once we got them we can start using them as a source for our energy. All we have to do is plant other trees to replace the ones we chopped down. It's that simple.
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» RE: ecycling is the only adequate solution.
Posted by: Sparks56
» RE: ecycling is the only adequate solution.
Posted by: han
» RE: ecycling is the only adequate solution.
Posted by: bornxeyed
» RE: ecycling is the only adequate solution.
Posted by: han
» Ok.. HOW???
Posted by: JoshuaLudd
» Something has to give... we can either choose what it is, which will be tough...
Posted by: JoshuaLudd
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Posted by: thoughtcriminal on Apr 22, 2007 10:21 AM
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Why are fossil fuel interests spending hundreds of millions on PR that attacks climate science and renewable energy production? Because they like being the richest, most powerful people on Earth, and they don't want to see that change! It's called GREED...
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Posted by: jbwestwood on Apr 22, 2007 7:40 PM
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Human (that excludes Neanderthals) ingenuity MAY, JUST MAY, be able to mark a perilous path away from what appears to be an unimaginably catastrophic future. But that path will have to be strewn with the corpses of THOSE WHO WILL NOT SEE! The future must not try to accommodate idiocy no matter how strident!
Geezer means octogenarian who regrets fathering grandchildren
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Posted by: futurefarm on Apr 23, 2007 7:15 AM
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» Isn't everything at alternot propaganda?
Posted by: rwa
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Posted by: chief of okeefe on Apr 23, 2007 5:35 PM
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Now imagine the unbelievable goal of stopping all auto emissions in a country whose population is still growing. Even that incredible achievement would reduce the total CO2 emissions into planet earth by 1/450 th (0.22 * 0.25 * 0.04 = 0.0022). The notion that anyone has a model proven to be so accurate that this infinitismal change would make a difference is laughable.
And that, my friends, is why this issue is DOA with enough Americans you will get nothing done democratically. As long as this whole discussion is so irrational-- like a new religion-- it wil be nothing more than more hot CO2.
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» Please don't use logic, we want nuclear power plants
Posted by: rwa
» Because we have to make sure any fix just means buying, building, and spending...
Posted by: JoshuaLudd
» The global warming meme just means buying, building, and spending... with nuclear poison
Posted by: rwa
» Yep... don't talk about real change.. or any change... just do the same thing you've always done..
Posted by: JoshuaLudd
» RE: Please don't use logic, we want nuclear power plants
Posted by: ng1944
» It is all about control
Posted by: ng1944
» RE: It is all about control
Posted by: richholland
Comments are closed-
Posted by: eosrk on Apr 23, 2007 9:32 PM
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By replacing the oil cap with a breather, commonly found on most race cars and sold at auto stores all over, what happens is that oxygen is moved at a faster rate than normal, and by using the pressure differences inside the engine, it reduces carbon emissions to like, zero(0.260 grams or less).
How would this work on cars that don't require emission control systems, like hydrogen, flex-fuel cars and trucks? Simple; just drill a hole in one of your valve covers, and drill a hole(all small holes, the size of a pvc tube) into either your airbox or a part of your intake system, then run a rubber or flexible plastic tube(make sure the plastic tube is heat resistant, don't want it to melt away) between them, placing a connection at each end to be able to join them together, and the engine does the rest.
Instead of changing your oil every 3000-4000 miles, you can wait up to 7000 miles to change it, gain 5-7mpg, including what you automobile already is rated for(trust me, it will change), gain lots of horsepower, for that the engine dosen't build pressure quickly, in fact, it does what weather is for the earth.
It works even better or large and hi-performance cars and trucks.....and motorcycles, too, anything that uses fuel to make a fire, it works!!!!
If they get dirty, it's ok. Like a reuseable air filter, let the build up work in your favor, remember, the engine is breathing in and out all the time, and will be a cooler motor, which will last longer, and will be easier to maintain, which will save you the trouble of always buying a car because the old one kept failing emissions test(by the way, the carbon buildup, without the engine pressure modulation systems, cannot be avoided, for the engine dosen't "breathe"!)
In most cases, it only has to be changed once a year, and on some cars, once is enough, since for some reason the engines on them are designed better!
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Posted by: richholland on Apr 25, 2007 9:19 PM
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Our engineers and professors scrutinised Al Gore s sayings
geologically they are not true.
Of course to restrict on peak oil is not bad.
In fact in Europe many municipilities have their buses on alternative energie already.
Is it possible because USA has so many corporations that want profits they donot change into alternatives????
Because a non profit company gets his losses refund by the State.
Informally in Holland since the cold war excists so called control shelters for the authorities including food and bicyclettes to obtain electricity. (I have seen a 4personbyciclette.
In Schwitzerland even nowadays if you build a house outside town you must build also an atomic cellar,that is inspected every two monthes.
Could it be possible your authorities allready have done many alternatives but YOU donot know this.?
In many cases statecontrolled companies are less efficient but not allways as we see in Holland with gas,electricity,trains
after privatisation prices went up.
In India and Asia people want the same techno level as Europe and USA so if you follow Al Gores scenario in America
in the world nothing changes.
(USA less pollution=CHINAmore pollution.
What will your next president do? to save enviroment bomb all the coalinstallations in China????
The solution is maybe less work more vacation for you.
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Posted by: richholland on Apr 25, 2007 9:19 PM
Current rating: Not yet rated [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Our engineers and professors scrutinised Al Gore s sayings
geologically they are not true.
Of course to restrict on peak oil is not bad.
In fact in Europe many municipilities have their buses on alternative energie already.
Is it possible because USA has so many corporations that want profits they donot change into alternatives????
Because a non profit company gets his losses refund by the State.
Informally in Holland since the cold war excists so called control shelters for the authorities including food and bicyclettes to obtain electricity. (I have seen a 4personbyciclette.
In Schwitzerland even nowadays if you build a house outside town you must build also an atomic cellar,that is inspected every two monthes.
Could it be possible your authorities allready have done many alternatives but YOU donot know this.?
In many cases statecontrolled companies are less efficient but not allways as we see in Holland with gas,electricity,trains
after privatisation prices went up.
In India and Asia people want the same techno level as Europe and USA so if you follow Al Gores scenario in America
in the world nothing changes.
(USA less pollution=CHINAmore pollution.
What will your next president do? to save enviroment bomb all the coalinstallations in China????
The solution is maybe less work more vacation for you.
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Posted by: feltdragon33 on Apr 28, 2007 12:23 AM
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Posted by: waterislifeaguaesvida on Apr 28, 2007 8:53 AM
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This issue requires a political settlement that involves large, capital-intensive sectors of the American economy. It is pure folly to expect there to be a negotiating table set up as things stand. The governors and mayors of American have initiated much of the current activity. There needs to be a political mandate that is defined through the Congressional and Presidential elections specifically to move from no-action to a Preferred Scenario that will have the needed impact on global warming.
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