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Environment

Readers Write: Can Apple and the Tech Industry Be 'Green'?

By AlterNet Staff, AlterNet. Posted February 3, 2007.


Our readers questioned whether Apple deserved its low environmental rating from Greenpeace and what can be done to green the tech industry.
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These days technology is so much a part of our lives that we sometimes forget to think about where it comes from -- and importantly, where it goes when we are done with it. This week we published a story by Jess Hemerly about Apple computers, which was recently ranked by Greenpeace at the bottom of the list of eco-friendly tech companies.

The story elicited a number of passionate responses from readers, some of whom felt the folks at Mac were unfairly targeted considering the rest of the industry's track record.

Greenman wrote:

Apple is certainly no worse than its peers, and is better than some, regarding the environment. Seriously, the idea that any computer is good for the environment is pretty crazy. There's nine times as many PC's as there are Apples in the trash heaps of the world, and there's not a nickel's worth of difference between an Apple carcass and a Dell carcass, I'd wager, in terms of harm to the environment.

As other posters have pointed out, what is needed for electronics and computers -- especially -- and for all products in general, is a pricing system that would include "cradle to grave" provisions for mitigating harm to the environment for the entire life of the product. Everything would quickly become of much higher quality, would last longer, and would be more expensive, too. That's the kind of carrot-and-stick regulation that government could impose, but doesn't for all the grubby reasons we are all too familiar with these days.

Other people also mentioned the issue of durability and thought that Apple's lifespan should be taken into consideration -- arguing that people go through their PCs quicker than their Macs.

In her article, Hemerly compared Apple's environmental policy to that of Dell, citing Dell's recent commitments to providing free recycling to their customers worldwide and their recent "Plant a Tree for Me" campaign that allows consumers to pay an extra $2 for their computer purchase to go towards reforestation.

But one reader said that that Dell's efforts were more symbolism than actually productive environmental efforts. Thoughtcriminal wrote:

Just because Dell allows you to make a $2 donation to a 'plant a tree campaign..." -- that makes them a responsible greenwashed company? What's needed is a generalized government-regulated e-waste recycling industry that provides safe working conditions; you could simply place a small tax on all computer and electronics gear sold in the U.S. to help fund such a program.

I mean, go down to your nursery, buy some trees, and plant them yourself -- your $2 feel-good donation to Dell is nothing but green marketing (that you get to pay for!)

Several other readers also thought that since Apple was abiding by the laws, they shouldn't be singled out for punishment, but did suggest that this is a problem that should be addressed with federal regulation.

TheGrunger wrote:

Dell may be marginally better than Apple -- but neither one is going to bend over backwards to do what is right if it cuts too far into their bottom line.

While I think it is valuable to point out things like this, unless they are actually breaking the law I don't see any value in singling out Apple or any other company. We cannot expect corporations to do the right thing (in any situation, environmental or otherwise) if there are not strict regulations in place to punish them harshly for doing the wrong thing.

The problem is the entire corporate system and the weak regulatory laws of our government -- that is where we should focus our efforts. That is the only way to force companies like Apple to pay attention.

While some people felt that it was the government's job to legislate change, others found the article helpful in letting consumers know that they can begin demanding that Apple and other companies, start doing more to protect the environment.

Ghoulman, a Mac user, wrote: "I think all the right points are put out in this article. Computers, and electronics in general, are a dirty little landfill secret ... I'm glad someone is upping the environmental anti."

Likewise LarryGroff wrote:

I am also a long time Mac and PC user who is very concerned about the environmental impact of my computers. I would agree with those who take Jess Hemerly to task for not investigating thoroughly enough about Apple's environmental record and the superficiality and grandstanding of Greenpeace's Green my Apple campaign.

Digg!

See more stories tagged with: apple computer, mac, e-waste, environment

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View:
Green computing...
Posted by: ABetterFuture on Feb 3, 2007 12:52 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
...an incredibly interesting topic.

...from a psychological standpoint.

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hmmm
Posted by: daniel1982 on Feb 3, 2007 7:31 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Alternet has to be more creative. Taxing something seems to be a solution to everything.

[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]

laptop battery?
Posted by: veggiegrrrl on Feb 3, 2007 7:46 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
and where can i send my dead apple ibook laptop battery?

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The Changing Shape
Posted by: veggiegrrrl on Feb 3, 2007 7:53 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
One thing computer manufacturers should STOP doing is changing the shape and size of their laptops and desktops so often. Keep drives and boards the same size so it's a matter of replacing internal parts as opposed to entire machines. Yeh, we all want smaller, lighter, and cuter machines. Today's upgrade is tomorrow's toxic nightmare. If after four years most computers are no longer worth anything, why not, in the age of eco-regulation (ha!) "force" companies to make "ten year" machines where the shell remains the same and only the insides change?
Just a thought. Oh, but we all want the latest and greatest, now don't we?

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Planting A Tree Doesn't Make One Green
Posted by: NoPCZone on Feb 3, 2007 7:56 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Look At Weyerhaeuser.

Should a company that makes components in China and uses tons of fossil fuels shipping them here be considered green?
Should a company still making CRT monitors be considered green?
Should a company that uses bulky packaging that clogs up landfills be considered green?

It's more than an ad campaign.

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a story about apple
Posted by: andrewstromotich on Feb 3, 2007 9:31 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
that kinda reflects some worry about the company.

I had my wireless mouse go down the other day and called up apple. after some discussion, the applecare agent hinted that my mouse was broken because i used rechargable batteries in it. I was stunned. what am i supposed to use?
he tells me regular alkaline throw aways (which came with the keyboard and mouse, and last about a week). that is what apple recommends he says, and puts me on hold while he finds it in print.

I tell him that that is irresponsible and environmentally neglegent. he says if i'm worried about it i shouldn't buy the product. that rechargable batteries ruin the environment as well.

i ask him if he is saying it is environmentally neglegent of me to buy an apple product and he puts me on hold again. when he comes back he says that was an old policy and now they say it is ok to use rechargables and they will gladly replace my mouse. they say it will take 5 days to arrive from ontario (i'm in canada).

I say i'm going to write a letter to the sierra club and i would like a copy of the policy papers he earlier read from. he says he cannot do that and have a good day.

this is around 3pm. the next morning the new mouse arrives with a thank you letter from apple head office.

why the hell does apple not have a rechargeable battery inside it's keyboard and mouse that can be recharged by plugging it in via usb like ipod? why is apple blaming it's customers for using it's products?

I love apple. I am a filmmaker and apple has been my choice since g3's. i love the product, but i'm not delusional and i understand it's a big company. but i will do my best to change their policies....
peace,
andrew stromotich

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» RE: a story about apple Posted by: MartianBachelor
A manisfestation of the American problem
Posted by: johnecolby on Feb 3, 2007 10:52 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
The reactions of some readers of the original article highlights what is wrong with this country -- why we have an emperial democracy tottering towards totalitarianism and a bleak future with regard to global warming. Americans don't want to take responsibility. They want a cleaner, better America. Yet when push comes to shove they aren't willing to sacrifice anything to make it come about. They want all their toys: their cell phones, PDAs, iPods, stylish laptops, home entertainment systems, SUVs and large homes. So they say, it is the governments responsibility to fix everything. They abdicate their power by not accepting responsibility. The result: the government we have and the world we are losing.

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» RE: A manisfestation of the American problem Posted by: unitedstatesofstupidity
A Long Road To More Sustainable Electronics
Posted by: DASonnenfeld on Feb 3, 2007 12:39 PM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
A thoughtful and spirited discussion. It's been a long road towards more sustainable electronics. Advocates including the Silicon Valley Toxics Coalition have been calling for greater industry and consumer awareness of environmental and health impacts of electronics manufacturing for several decades. The need is more urgent than ever today. For a thoroughly documented history of this effort, see the recently published book, Challenging the Chip.

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The larger picture
Posted by: MartianBachelor on Feb 4, 2007 11:05 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Since no one that I've seen has brought up this angle...

Let's say everything claimed in the original article is true, and thus counts on Apple's debit side. On the plus side we should credit them with helping to transform a good sized chunk of the music industry from moving atoms around (in the form of plastic CD's) to moving informational bits from producer to consumer over the I-Net.

How many gas-fueled trips to the music store or visits by a USPS/UPS delivery truck has the iPod and iTunes done away with? It's the same argument as with 'print' media and all the trees saved by so many of us getting our news and other info electronically.

I know it's probably impossible to calculate all this out completely and come to a definitive answer, but it's difficult not to believe that the reason digital systems of the sort Apple makes have grown so rapidly in popularity as of late is their greater net efficiency, which is ultimately good for the environment -- or at least better than what we had before.

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