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Extinction: Bye Bye, Birdie ...
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Since then, numerous search parties have been launched to comb that patch of forest for more evidence of the bird's existence, and scientists have been examining the video frame by frame and debating whether it really depicts an ivory-billed woodpecker or just a more common, similar-looking pileated woodpecker. Has this lost creature revealed itself to human eyes again after six decades -- or is the bird a figment of our wishful thinking? One thing is certain, says Duke University conservation biologist Stuart Pimm: "If it survives, it's a lonely bird."
Lonely, except that in one sense it has lots of company: species that are lost, or nearly so, are increasingly common because human activities are driving them to extinction 1,000 times faster than the normal rate, according to the just-released report, Global Biodiversity Outlook 2. The report echoes the United Nations' Millennium Ecosystem Assessment, published last year, and proclaims that a "sixth mass extinction" is under way, the worst loss of species since the dinosaurs died out 65 million years ago.
Such dire claims have attracted some skeptics, however. Mostly journalists and economists, they start with the argument that nobody even knows how many other species share the planet, so how can anyone claim to know what the extinction rate is? Taxonomists have named and described around 1.5 million species, but estimates of the actual total range from 5 million to over 15 million. A frequently cited mid-range estimate is 7 million species, but that's by no means an exact or universally accepted figure.
Because of this uncertainty, says Pimm, the aim should be simply to calculate a relative extinction rate rather than the absolute number of disappearing species. Pimm and a group of colleagues first laid out these ideas in a 1995 paper in Science that has become probably the most widely accepted approach to quantifying species loss.
Only a few of those 1.5 million described species are known well enough to assess how they're doing; what's known about many species derives from single specimens hiding in dusty museum cabinets somewhere. So in order to say something meaningful about extinction rates, it's necessary to pick a well-known group of organisms and treat them as a sample of the larger total. Fortunately for Pimm, an ornithologist, birds make a good sample group. Although there are still occasional surprises, it's generally well known how many kinds of birds there are, which ones have disappeared, and when. And, he says, the fact that there are just about 10,000 species of birds in the world greatly simplifies the arithmetic involved.
About 130 kinds of birds have vanished around the world over the past century and a half. That's a pretty firm number: "We have a body count and we have names," Pimm says. There's the great auk, for example, driven to extinction in the 19th century by hunters who sought its feathers, meat, and oil. There's the Lana'i hookbill, lost in the early 1900s when its habitat was destroyed for pineapple plantations, and the New Zealand bush wren, a ground nester that proved easy prey for introduced rats and was last sighted in 1972. The bird extinction rate is about one per 10,000 species per year, or 100 extinctions per million species per year, since the middle of the 19th century. Of course, extinction is a natural process; no species lives forever. So the real question is how the current extinction rate compares to the usual rate at which species come and go (the back-ground rate).
To determine the background extinction rate, scientists look to the fossil record and to genetic material, or DNA, which accumulates small changes in its sequence as it is copied and passed down from generation to generation. Because these minor copying mistakes occur at a known rate, they can act as "molecular clocks" to help establish how long ago closely related species diverged and to track other aspects of species history. This evidence suggests that under normal circumstances species survive for one million to 10 million years. If species typically lived for only one million years, then we ought to see one extinction per million species-years, or one per million species per year." And so what that tells us is that the rate of bird extinctions is a hundred times greater than it should be," says Pimm.
In their 1995 paper, Pimm and his colleagues also performed similar analyses of mammals, reptiles, frogs and toads, and freshwater clams (dividing the number of extinctions witnessed over the past century by the total number of known species in each of these groups) and came up with similar results: current extinction rates are two orders of magnitude above normal. But the real body count is likely to be even higher, because species usually don't go extinct immediately when their habitats are destroyed, exotic predators arrive, or they otherwise come to ecological harm. Instead, they often hang on for decades or even longer before disappearing forever.
Habitat destruction is a major cause of species loss and has accelerated rapidly in recent years, especially in the world's most species-rich environments -- about half the original extent of tropical moist forest has been lost, for example, most of it in the last 50 years -- so it's likely that many extinctions have not yet had time to occur. That means the number of threatened and endangered species (those that are likely to go extinct in the next few decades without human intervention to save them) might be a better assessment ofthe probable toll than simply the number of recent extinctions.
The World Conservation Union (IUCN) currently lists 1,213 birds as threatened, about 12 percent of all avian species. "Which means that by the end of the century we could expect that probably a thousand species of birds might disappear," Pimm says. That would be 10 extinctions per 10,000 species per year, or 1,000 times the background extinction rate. The numbers for other well-known groups are similar, if not worse: 20 percent of the world's mammal species appear on the IUCN Red List of threatened species.
Not all scientists agree that hundred-to thousand-fold increased extinction rates among birds and a few other well-known groups mean that all kinds of species are disappearing at the same rates. "There are just so many differences among, even within, taxa, how species respond to the kinds of forces that are causing extinction," says Daniel Simberloff, an ecologist at the University of Tennessee in Knoxville. Do the patterns we see in birds, which make up just 0.6 percent of known species, necessarily apply to insects, which account for 54 percent?
Pimm and Simberloff were once colleagues at the University of Tennessee and know each other's work well. (Pimm even likes to joke that one of Simberloff's primary research interests is "pointing out Stuart Pimm's mistakes.") "There are certainly lots of credible scientists who don't like the extrapolation methods and would argue with aspects of them," Simberloff says.
Yet within the scientific community, the debate over extinction rates is about details, like just how much extrapolation is appropriate, rather than the big picture." I don't know of any credible environmental scientist that doesn't think that extinctions are happening at greatly increased rates," Simberloff says. To him, high extinction rates among birds and other well-known groups are evidence enough of a biodiversity crisis -- regardless of what the exact patterns might prove to be among other kinds of species.
Moreover, as researchers have begun to look more closely at those other groups of species, all evidence suggests that things are just as bad, if not worse, than studies of birds and mammals indicate. According to a Nature Conservancy study, dragonflies and beetles are more highly threatened than birds in North America. In the sea, where many scientists had long believed that species would be relatively shielded from extinction risk, more than 40 percent of a subfamily of groupers meet IUCN criteria for imperilment, says Callum Roberts, a marine conservation biologist at the University of York in the United Kingdom. Most marine species have not yet been assessed.
In a study comparing population trends among butterflies, birds, and plants in Britain, a group of ecologists led by Jeremy Thomas of the National Environment Research Council in Dorchester found that butterflies fared the worst in recent decades. Seventy-one percent of butterfly species declined over the course of the study, compared to 54 percent of birds and 28 percent of plants.The group's analyses of other types of insects, while less detailed, suggested similar patterns. Their study involved over 20,000 volunteers who submitted more than 15 million records of species sightings -- an enormous amount of effort to analyze just a few groups of organisms on a relatively small, species-poor island with a well-characterized biota, and a good illustration of why sampling is necessary, and probably always will be.
It's just about inconceivable that the precise status of every species on Earth can be known, and there has to be some point at which reasonable people decide that what is known is enough. Admittedly, what we know are still only scattered details woven into a much grander, and still largely mysterious, tapestry. Many of the largest groups of organisms, and the most unexplored. Tropical moist forests, for example, are thought to contain half the Earth's species, and if that's true only about one in 20 of the species living there have been catalogued.
However, two important pieces of information about these environments are available. First, it's often possible to determine how much of a habitat has been destroyed, by means of forest surveys or satellite photos.
Second, it's known that larger areas of habitat can support more species, and by contrast smaller areas contain not only fewer numbers of creatures but fewer species -- a principle called the species-area relation. Specifically, an area of habitat half the size of another area doesn't host half the number of species as the larger area, but about 85 percent. Thus, say Pimm and many other ecologists, the 50 percent of tropical moist forest that's been lost so far is expected to lead to the extinction of 15 percent of tropical moist forest species.
Scientists also use the species-area relation to predict future extinctions as habitat destruction continues. Peter Raven, president of the Missouri Botanical Garden in St. Louis, estimates that tropical moist forests will be reduced to about five percent of their original extent by mid-century. According to the species-area relation, that would commit more than half of the species they hold to extinction." If you put that together with habitat destruction in temperate regions," Raven says, "you come up with something like half to two-thirds of all the species in the world becoming extinct during the course of this century" -- or at least set on an inexorable path to that fate. Callum Roberts, who has been working on similar calculations for coral reefs, reports that "the species-area relationships suggest that marine species will be lost as a consequence of habitat destruction almost as fast as terrestrial species will."
Not all species are equally vulnerable to ecological threats. "It's easier to destroy a species with a small range than a big one," Pimm says, simply because it's easier to wipe out the entire area where it lives. In fact, a large proportion of species have small ranges, and they're not evenly distributed over the planet. For reasons scientists are still debating, they are clumped together in particular spots, most of which are in the tropics. Habitat destruction in those areas could be particularly devastating, as British ecologist Norman Myers has pointed out. Myers pioneered the concept of "biodiversity hotspots," and in 2000, with input from scientists from Conservation International, he defined 25 hotspots covering just 1.4 percent of the planet's land area. The hotspots include 15 tropical forests but also places like the Mediterranean basin and the Cape Floristic Region at the southern tip of Africa. Destroying these habitats could wipe out 44 percent of all plant species, as well as 35 percent of birds, mammals, reptiles, and amphibians. In a similar analysis of coral reef environments, which are among the most diverse parts of the sea, Roberts and a group of colleagues identified 10 marine biodiversity hotspots, representing just 0.012 percent of the ocean but containing a large proportion of small-range species. Moreover, since that analysis was published in 2002, researchers have been gathering evidence of unexpectedly rich concentrations of biodiversity in other parts of the ocean, such as deep-ocean seamounts and cold-water coral reefs, which are being destroyed at a rapid clip by factory trawlers. "The habitats on them are literally being clear-cut as effectively as any forest cutting in the Amazon," Roberts says.
Some scientists have objected to this use of the species-area relation, arguing that it's a tool for predicting the total number of species you'll find in an area if you sample a smaller portion of it -- not for predicting the number of species you'll lose by destroying a portion of habitat. In other words, you can use the equation to make predictions about going from a smaller area to a bigger one, but not from a bigger area to a smaller one.
Yet in several different environments around the world, researchers have found that predictions of species loss based on the species-area relation align pretty well with reality. In the eastern U.S. forests, which were reduced by about 50 percent at their smallest extent (around 1870), the species-area relation predicts a loss of 15 percent of species. In fact, of 28 bird species restricted to the forest, four (or 14.3 percent) had gone extinct and a fifth was critically endangered as of 1995, according to Stuart Pimm and Robert Askins. (One of the extinct species was the ivory-billed woodpecker, so the best-case scenario now stands at three extinct and two critically endangered.) Likewise, in tropical forests such as the Atlantic Forest of Brazil and the island chains of Indonesia and the Philippines, where deforestation is more recent, the species-area relation accurately predicts or underestimates the number of threatened bird species -- an expected result, says Pimm, because in many areas other threats such as invasive species and over-hunting also contribute to species endangerment.
Still, Simberloff says that these numbers should be taken with a grain of salt, because the species-area relation is "a very blunt tool." A great deal of habitat loss will surely lead to substantial species loss, but there are many other factors besides area that influence how many species live in a certain place, and the species-area relation doesn't say how fast species will go extinct. "All [the analyses] can say is at some point in the future there are going to be fewer species," he emphasizes.
"It's a glass-half-empty/glass-half-full situation," Pimm responds. Even if these analyses don't yield a precise number of species destined for extinction, they do give us a good sense of the magnitude of the problem. A loss of half to two-thirds of all species, as Peter Raven predicts is possible, puts the present era on par with the five previous mass extinctions in the history of life on Earth. The most recent one, 65 million years ago, wiped out the dinosaurs along with about two-thirds of all forms of life on land.
While habitat destruction was the focus of most work on global extinction rates throughout the 1990s, recently scientists have begun to consider the biodiversity impacts of climate change. A group of researchers presented perhaps the most comprehensive effort to date to quantify these possible effects in a 2004 paper in Nature.
Led by biologist Chris Thomas (then at the University of Leeds in the United Kingdom), the group assessed the present distributions of 1,103 animal and plant species and projected how the habitat available to them would change under conditions predicted by the most commonly used computer model of climate change. As the Earth warms, boreal forest is expected to shrink toward the poles, for example, and alpine habitat will retreat up the sides of mountains.
Reasoning that habitat loss is habitat loss whether it's caused by chainsaws or the greenhouse effect, Thomas's team calculated the proportion of habitat that species are likely to lose as the climate warms, then used the species-area relation to predict the number of extinctions likely to result. They found that, depending on the assumptions of the model, 15-37 percent of the species would be on their way to extinction by 2050. The paper generated an uproar almost immediately. Daniel Botkin, of the University of California at Santa Barbara, says the analysis makes inappropriate use of the species-area relation and is based on weak underlying data.
"I've shown that we don't even know the area that is boreal forest very well," he says, pointing out that calculating the future loss of a certain habitat is pretty meaningless when we don't know its present extent.
Yet the gloomy predictions don't depend on the species-area relation, Thomas and his coauthors explained in an online follow-up to their article. The computer model predicted that eight percent of species would have no suitable habitat left at all by 2050. Moreover, warming isn't likely to stop in 2050 -- in fact, the maximum temperature increase predicted for 2050 is pretty close to the minimum increase predicted for 2100. So for species that lose most of their habitat by 2050, "it doesn't take much extrapolation in the mind to realize it's not going to be more than a few decades before they've lost the rest," Thomas says. Although he views the 2004 analysis as only "a first step" to understanding the effects of global warming on biodiversity, Thomas still sees it as a pretty good indicator of the magnitude of extinctions that are likely to result from climate change: "It looks like it's going to be in the tens of percents of species."
How do older predictions of species loss from habitat destruction line up with newer ones about extinction from climate change?
No one has done a formal analysis, and Thomas says no one knows yet how much the two groups of species at risk will overlap. But Pimm reluctantly ventures the conclusion that the losses may prove to be additive, because habitats likely to shrink most as the planet warms, like those on mountaintops and in the polar regions, also tend to be remote and thus relatively unaffected by habitat destruction. "Global warming is going to start knocking off the species that we thought might survive," Pimm says.
Of course, nature is full of surprises, and could turn out to be more resilient than we think. Maybe species will be able to adapt to a warmer climate, disperse to newly suitable areas, or hang on in human-altered habitats. The Brazilian maroon-bellied parakeet survives in Rio de Janeiro's city parks and gardens, despite the fact that over 90 percent of its native coastal-forest habitat has been wiped out.
But most ecologists agree that while a few species here and there will be able to make a go of it in a changed world, such species will be part of a small minority. Chris Thomas points out that species trying to adapt to a warmer climate will have to compete with heat-loving species that will arrive from warmer climes. And Stuart Pimm has found that those tropical forest species able to survive in human-altered habitats like cow pastures are relatively widely distributed generalist species that are not at high risk of extinction anyway. In other words, the maroon-bellied parakeet is also a lonely bird, having once been part of a teeming avian community in the Atlantic Forest; 200 species of birds with which the parakeet shared its lost habitat are on the brink of extinction.
If there is any real cause for optimism, it lies in the time lag before extinction. If species can hang on for 50 or 100 years, we humans may be able to organize a system of protected areas and alter our own activities to ensure their long-term survival in the wild. The ivory-billed woodpecker was decimated when the mature bottomland forests it depends on were razed in the 19th and early 20th centuries, but these forests are now coming back. If the bird has managed to survive for this long, its chances will only be better in the future as the big trees continue to grow. Similarly, Thomas says that if global temperatures peak at a relatively low level sometime late this century and then decline towards pre-industrial levels 150 or 200 years from now, about half of the extinctions predicted by his group's analysis could be avoided.
Perhaps we humans are not yet fated to be lonely.
This article appears in the June/July issue of World Watch.
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Posted by: rebel_pig on Aug 7, 2006 12:10 AM
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» One site can talk about more than one thing at once. [n/t]
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» Is that just another respons to avoid responsibility?
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» RE: more upper class twittery about birds even while millions of Americans go without healthcare
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» How very sad for you and so many others *big sigh of compassion*
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» RE: more upper class twittery about birds even while millions of Americans go without healthcare
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» OK, here we go.............
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» Sure..... here are some links..... I just found out that
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» RE: more upper class twittery about birds even while millions of Americans go without healthcare
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» you said: "what good is healthcare, dumbass?"
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» Remorse of the Piglet troll
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» RE: At least we now know that Humanus Avian Cranium read Alternet
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» Concerning Trolls ...
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» what if BOTH SIDES of the Puppet Show call somone a troll? Doesn't that make him a true DISSIDENT?
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» RE: Yo, BREACHBIRTHANOXIA- FLAMINGJACKASS- SHUTYERSPIDERHOLE-SYPHILLITICDEMENTIA
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» RE: Concerning Trolls ...
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» It's just cryofan. Ignore the troll!!! (NT)
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» A recommendation
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» I don't have healthcare. That's NOT NEARLY as important as mass extinction.
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» speak for yourself. Polls show that people want healthcare more than species diversity
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» RE: speak for yourself. -- I am. Never mind your ignorance. You are pathetically selfish.
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Posted by: wli on Aug 7, 2006 12:32 AM
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I suppose it's après moi la deluge as usual from the political elite.
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» Remember the canary in the mineshaft.
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Posted by: Max-TB on Aug 7, 2006 3:24 AM
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Peter Raven appears to be a member of its Executive committee as well as several others scientists (Us, UK, France)
Imoseb Website
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» Quoth the Raven?
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Posted by: rsaxto on Aug 7, 2006 3:51 AM
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» Radiate The Flocks and they will Be Fruitful and Multiply: Gorean Science at its Best
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» RE: how many
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Posted by: Chevaliere on Aug 7, 2006 4:00 AM
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Climate change over the next 20 years could result in a global catastrophe costing millions of lives in wars and natural disasters..
A secret report, suppressed by US defence chiefs and obtained by The Observer, warns that major European cities will be sunk beneath rising seas as Britain is plunged into a 'Siberian' climate by 2020. Nuclear conflict, mega-droughts, famine and widespread rioting will erupt across the world.
The document predicts that abrupt climate change could bring the planet to the edge of anarchy as countries develop a nuclear threat to defend and secure dwindling food, water and energy supplies. The threat to global stability vastly eclipses that of terrorism, say the few experts privy to its contents.
'Disruption and conflict will be endemic features of life,' concludes the Pentagon analysis. 'Once again, warfare would define human life.'
Even though the article suggests that this is an "embarassment" to the Bush Administration, I think that we can perceive the entire "War of Terror" as the U.S. response to this report. If we look carefully at the policies of the U.S. and Israel, we can see that they obviously know what is coming upon the Earth and they are making sure that they and their Pathocratic pals are at the top of the heap when everything shakes down.
The masses of humanity have to be distracted from this, of course, or they might demand that provisions be made for their survival as well. It is to that end that 911 was perpetrated and the so-called "War on Terror" was created. After all, how better to solve the problem of the hungry masses that might rise up against their Masters than to make sure that as many of them are occupied with killing one another as possible? And how better to do this than to create religious and ideological divisions? It also serves to eliminate extra mouths to feed, so DO expect the use of biological warfare - it's an efficient way to wipe out vast numbers of people while still leaving the infrastructure intact.
As to WHO gets to be selected to survive, it would be wise for everyone to get and read "Political Ponerology: The Science of Evil Adjusted for Political Purposes and "911: The Ultimate Truth" - both available from Red Pill Press - in order to know who is who and what is what.
Finally, for regular updates on this situation, read Signs of the Times a website that realized what was going on and has been discussing this issue since 1998. Only now are such views becoming more mainstream mainly due to the fact that it is getting too obvious to hide. Meanwhile, the killing continues and will accelerate massively in the next two years. Take that to the bank. We need to figure this out FAST. The time period may be much, MUCH shorter than 20 years.
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» What Reich? The Red Chinese Burn the Dirtiest and Most Coal.
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» We're Not Close to a "Major" Extinction
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» RE: We're Not Close to a "Major" Extinction
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» RE: We're Not Close to a "Major" Extinction
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» correction...
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» RE: Mass Extinction and the Bush Reich
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Posted by: coldeye on Aug 7, 2006 4:48 AM
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So I will not pray[to Whom do you suggest I pray? George Soros?] that people wake up about "global warming" as you suggest.
I will pray, though I am an agnostic pantheist, that you take a vow of silence and retire to Mt. Athos to reduce greenhouse hot gases.
Oh no! Cute seals and pandas will Die! Well, we got rid of the big ugly cold blooded dinosaurs last time, so it's the fuzzy, furry guys turn this time. And the good news is that maybe the "human" species will go on its meaningless way this time. I'm rooting for the insects. I think they will establish true Communism.
Mother Nature is a Dangerous Bitch. Solar warming, volcanoes, earthquakes, meteors, asteroids. The Second Coming (That's a Joke, Liberals!!!!!!!!)
Worry about a more imminent extinction. Literacy in contemporary society. A few more multicultural programs, no child left behinds, or encouraging kids to watch self-esteem videos instead of reading Homer or Huck Finn and we'll be so dumb we won't know if we are dead or not.
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» Nature is the Biggest Extinguisher of All
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» Where is the Proof Our Survival is in real dire danger?
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» RE: Where is the Proof Our Survival is in real dire danger?
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» RE: Where is the Proof Our Survival is in real dire danger-you may not believe it, but proof HERE
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» Make of It What You Will
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» It All Out There[Just Spend Your Life Searching and not Preaching]
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Posted by: marklar on Aug 7, 2006 6:45 AM
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But the birds, there are so many. Bald eagles, many hawks, the sounds and songs echoing through the forest, they make me feel like I'm the last Mohican when in that particlar parcel of forest. Sadly, in fact, I'm one of many more intruders who will be soon overtaking this wonderous natural land. Civilization is fast encroahing as east staters and more New Yorkers bring their rat race, obnoxious attitudes, Suvs, and Mcmansion contractors northwards to this last holdout of old forest. Even the relatives of Georege Schultz (Reagans George Shultz) have property nearby and suddenly have posted no tresapassing signs and are petitioning the state Highway Department to close off a a highway turnout used for parking by hikers over a mile away form their land. It's land that they never use, and don't live on, it's surrounded by state forest on three sides and the state highway, which is a two-way road. It's a very very remote parcel with some houses nearby on the roadside that were built between the Civil War and the depression. Oh, and Schultzes have a castle across the road more than a mile away from their private forest. Ah, the ownership society!
Getting back to birds - I watched a woodpecker banging on a tree one day. It made huge holes in the tree in several places and worked non-stop (what else could it do without union wages and no mandatory breaks?) It was one of the most fascinating sites I've ever seen. And the sound too! I watched it for a while, had a snack, and left it working away. I returnd a few days later and there were even more holes completed. This article just reminds me of how sad but true reality is. I'm grateful to have lived in this area and experienced the natrual beauty before the mass of me firsters invade and trample on this beautiful place in ways I and other kikers do not. The end.
Thanks to Alternet for posting the article. It's a good reprive from our other disasters in the making.
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Posted by: xenacat on Aug 7, 2006 6:54 AM
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Posted by: hapibeli on Aug 7, 2006 6:57 AM
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Posted by: hapibeli on Aug 7, 2006 7:08 AM
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Posted by: Iconoclast421 on Aug 7, 2006 7:40 AM
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What we humans do is inconsequential compared to that.
Actually, we and we alone have the ability to prevent such devastation. Maybe not now, not really, not yet. But soon, if we can focus a little less on killing each other.
I'd be more worried if humans were maniacally obsessed with wiping out all other forms of life, but we're not that evil. Most of us can't stomach the thought of killing anything more than a fly or a mouse. We get queasy when we think about how many animals we slaughter each day. As long as that feeling is present we have nothing to worry about.
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» RE: xtinction is a part of the planet's natural lifecycle
Posted by: Uncle Tupelo
» Its All Over Now Baby Tupelo
Posted by: coldeye
» RE: xtinction is a part of the planet's natural lifecycle-see above post in response to coldeye
Posted by: Drclaw
» RE: xtinction is a part of the planet's natural lifecycle-see above post in response to coldeye
Posted by: willymack
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Posted by: sausage on Aug 7, 2006 8:32 AM
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The planet's geological history, as the above article notes, has gone through other mass extinction events. The Earth has always recovered, in millions of years. However during past mass extinction events the environment was never degraded past the point of regeneration. Something was always able to survive, flourish and evolve.
We now have the power to destory the environment to the degree that no new species will evolve to take the ecological niche of those we are killing.
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» RE: xtinction is the engine of evolution
Posted by: magmaybe
» Too Gloomy, Sausage.
Posted by: coldeye
» RE: Too Gloomy, Sausage.
Posted by: bornxeyed
» Hey, x, where ya been?
Posted by: Sojourner
» Man, you make me feel old.
Posted by: coldeye
» RE: Man, you make me feel old.
Posted by: bornxeyed
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Posted by: magmaybe on Aug 7, 2006 8:40 AM
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And as for previous mass extinction not caused by human interference - okay. So what? And maybe we will not be the cause of any *mass* extinction in the foreseeable future. I think this is false, but for the purposes of examining our way of living on this planet, it does remain a *fact* that human beings cause the extinction of species right now, and this is a moral issue. Let's deal with that.
Of course we will kill other beings for food or by accident, or in conflict/self-defense. But this natural way of living in relationship within an ecosystem is not the same as destroying an entire species so that we can build luxury condos. It boggles the mind that this distinction even needs to be made.
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» What's this? Albert Schweitzer's "reverence for life"?
Posted by: Sojourner
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Posted by: Jesse on Aug 7, 2006 9:06 AM
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While it is true that species have disappeared before, let it be said that sometimes it has had a far-reaching effect on people, their environment and their cultures, and in fact humans have been pretty good at wiping out species.
Take the hoary example of buffalo. Their disappearance made it impossible for the natives of the continent to continue their pre-contact habits, even if you discount the effect of horses (another introduced species). But the buffalo did more than that--their running across the plains in their millions churned the soil, and opened up areas for different species of grasses. No buffalo, and the whole thing is out of whack.
Or human agriculture. We wiped out huge chunks of the plains grass ecosystem and replaced it with monoculture farms. The result was the dust bowl the minute the weather got a little hotter and dryer. That was huge.
The problem with species disappearing is we don't really know which of them may prove really, really vital to our continued survival. for instance, earthworms. How important are they? Try doing agriculture without them. It ain't easy. Do we know exactly how many insect species may be related to them in some important way? Nope. So letting them go extinct seems pretty stupid, to me.
Elephants. Need them to rip down the acacias and clear the land for new trees, which also keeps the soil nice and loose and healthy (and is the reason you can grow a darned thing in Africa at all because local forests trap moisture).
Insects are also really, really important to pollination (anyone who grew squash in Connecticut should remember the last honeybee shortage in 1997) and to some trees and shrubs.
Now, it is true that a huge natural disaster -- a meteor strike by anythign bigger than about 10 km across, for instance--would render all this stuff moot. But I would rather we do our best to maintain the species diversity we have just in case we need something. Kind of an insurance policy, if you will. And there is no erason not to do things that make human survival easier and more likely.
These things operate as systems, and while they are pretty robust, they are not infinitely so.
Another aside about mass extinctions: The number of phyla on earth has remained pretty constant since the Cambrian (about 500 million years back). The Cambrian explosion produced a lot of experimentation with body plans. But all that stops after the big extinction at the Ordovican boundary. (Stephen Jay Gould wrote a whole book about this, though later paleontologists disagree with the specifics he seems to have been right that there are extinct phyla that do not exist today).
The point is that with fewer phyla, it is harder for living things to recover with enough diversity to get through future extinction events. I'd hate to be in the extinction event that kills off vertebrates (chordata) for example. That would likely pretty much preclude the re-emergence of intelligent life.
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» Why is the disappearance of "intelligent" life a bad thing?
Posted by: coldeye
» Sloths and human 'rights'
Posted by: Sojourner
» Dissenters on Alternet: Not Welcome
Posted by: coldeye
» RE: Dissenters on Alternet: Not Welcome
Posted by: Jesse
» RE: Dissenters on Alternet: Not Welcome
Posted by: Uncle Tupelo
» Oh Indulge Democracy for another couple of years: Your 1984 Ideal Will Be Here Soon
Posted by: coldeye
» Informed dissent is always welcome
Posted by: Drclaw
» Make A Claim: Burden of Proof is on the Claimer
Posted by: coldeye
» RE: Make A Claim: Burden of Proof is on the Claimer
Posted by: Drclaw
» RE: Make A Claim: Burden of Proof is on the Claimer
Posted by: Jesse
» RE: I claim that there are no more passenger pigeons!
Posted by: Againstthewindwalking
» RE: Make A Claim: Burden of Proof is on the Claimer
Posted by: bornxeyed
» RE: Dissenters on Alternet: Not Welcome
Posted by: bornxeyed
» RE: Dissenters on Alternet: Not Well Informed
Posted by: bornxeyed
» RE: Dissenters on Alternet: Not Well Informed-THANKS ALL
Posted by: Drclaw
» I wouldn't worry about inteligent life, Coleye! You don't fit the criteria, anyway!
Posted by: Againstthewindwalking
» the existence of intelligent life is important because....
Posted by: lyle-tate
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Posted by: monkeywrench on Aug 7, 2006 9:55 AM
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And apparently, given the endless number of passes handed over to the Bush administration by the media, we need to know the exact status of every neuron in the brains of every single neocon before we can assess their level of greed and stupidity.
And do you think we'll need to know the exact status of every aspect of our deteriorated environment to know when it will no longer support OUR species? Oh, I bet we'll "get it" then. . .
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» Just think, the Harvest Moon Will Be Up Soon
Posted by: coldeye
» RE: The absolute status of our demise.
Posted by: ConnecttheDots
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Posted by: Gregor on Aug 7, 2006 10:50 AM
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Posted by: Lathor on Aug 7, 2006 2:30 PM
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Posted by: thoughtcriminal on Aug 7, 2006 6:29 PM
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However, the modern global economy puts no value on biodiversity; the players are looking for the fast buck - cutting down hundreds of acres of old-growth redwoods as fast as you can to pay off junk bonds is one example of this idiotic behavior. This is just more evidence of the suicidal effects of short-term profitteering - an unhealthy obsession with quarterly results, in other words.
The last thing resource extraction industries want is the Endangered Species Act; getting rid of it is probably the #1 goal of the financiers and PR types who are involved in mining, agribusiness, fossil fuels, timber, etc. No doubt many of the comments on this thread are motivated by such considerations. However, for the rest of us conserving biodiversity does have real value.
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» Did you catch the story about the Magician's Hat (?) Snail?
Posted by: Sojourner
» RE: Did you catch the story about the Magician's Hat (?) Snail?-Many more examples
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Posted by: carrie on Aug 7, 2006 7:46 PM
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Posted by: Againstthewindwalking on Aug 8, 2006 9:20 AM
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I'm borrowing Ray's computer and login. Don't ban him Alternet! I don't come here often! Just letting everybody know that if they thought Alternet shut me up, WRONG!!!
Bornxeyed, long time no hear from! Check out the blog! You'll like it! I know you ain't no troll, but if I remember correctly, you do like to chomp on them once in a while! Anybody else want to sink their teeth in a troll, I'm sure they will come (if they got the balls, that is!) The address is above!
Come on Conservasaurus, Cryofan, Johnnyboy, Coldeye, and the rest!!! The Devil wants to dance, and he went out and hired a band! Best thing is, it won't cost you a dime, and I WON"T BAN YA!!!! You don't scare me!
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» Call For Help
Posted by: coldeye
» RE: C'mon Coldeye! Don't get Stoney fired up again!
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Posted by: DCostello on Aug 8, 2006 9:38 AM
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» You have a doomsday device in your basement?
Posted by: coldeye
» RE: Future of planet = end of humans
Posted by: bornxeyed
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Posted by: dogot on Aug 8, 2006 11:13 AM
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Call of Life: Facing the Mass Extinction
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Posted by: dbaker on Aug 10, 2006 6:53 AM
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dennisbaker2003@hotmail.com
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Posted by: sushil_yadav on Aug 29, 2006 11:00 AM
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Industrial Society Destroys Mind and Environment
Subject : In a fast society slow emotions become extinct.
Subject : A thinking mind cannot feel.
Subject : Scientific/ Industrial/ Financial thinking destroys the planet.
Subject : Environment can never be saved as long as cities exist.
A FAST (LARGE) SOCIETY CANNOT FEEL PAIN / REMORSE / EMPATHY.
A FAST (LARGE) SOCIETY WILL ALWAYS BE CRUEL TO ANIMALS/ TREES/ AIR/ WATER/ LAND AND TO ITSELF.
To read the complete article please follow either of these links :
Article
Article
sushil_yadav
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Posted by: rebel_pig on Aug 7, 2006 12:10 AM
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» One site can talk about more than one thing at once. [n/t]
Posted by: nickptar
» Is that just another respons to avoid responsibility?
Posted by: Wish
» RE: Is that just another respons to avoid responsibility?
Posted by: willymack
» RE: more upper class twittery about birds even while millions of Americans go without healthcare
Posted by: Abushite
» How very sad for you and so many others *big sigh of compassion*
Posted by: Lizmv
» RE: more upper class twittery about birds even while millions of Americans go without healthcare
Posted by: Annarisse
» OK, here we go.............
Posted by: Prophit
» RE: OK, here we go.............
Posted by: Steve Adair
» Sure..... here are some links..... I just found out that
Posted by: Prophit
» RE: more upper class twittery about birds even while millions of Americans go without healthcare
Posted by: katsunderthestars
» you said: "what good is healthcare, dumbass?"
Posted by: rebel_pig
» RE: you said: "what good is healthcare, dumbass?"
Posted by: harris
» Remorse of the Piglet troll
Posted by: jwg
» RE:Oh God, Cry o Fan! Give it a rest!!!!
Posted by: Againstthewindwalking
» RE: At least we now know that Humanus Avian Cranium read Alternet
Posted by: marklar
» RE: At least we now know that Humanus Avian Cranium read Alternet
Posted by: LMNOP
» RE: At least we now know that Humanus Avian Cranium read Alternet
Posted by: marklar
» RE: At least we now know that Humanus Avian Cranium read Alternet
Posted by: willymack
» RE: At least we now know that Humanus Avian Cranium read Alternet
Posted by: marklar
» Concerning Trolls ...
Posted by: AdamSelene40
» what if BOTH SIDES of the Puppet Show call somone a troll? Doesn't that make him a true DISSIDENT?
Posted by: rebel_pig
» RE: Yo, BREACHBIRTHANOXIA- FLAMINGJACKASS- SHUTYERSPIDERHOLE-SYPHILLITICDEMENTIA
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» RE: what if BOTH SIDES of the Puppet Show call somone a troll? Doesn't that make him a true DISSIDEN
Posted by: blitzmesser
» RE: what if BOTH SIDES of the Puppet Show call somone a troll? Doesn't that make him a true DISSIDEN
Posted by: rebel_pig
» RE: Concerning Trolls ...
Posted by: marklar
» It's just cryofan. Ignore the troll!!! (NT)
Posted by: brunowe
» A recommendation
Posted by: fungus
» I don't have healthcare. That's NOT NEARLY as important as mass extinction.
Posted by: Pat Kittle
» speak for yourself. Polls show that people want healthcare more than species diversity
Posted by: rebel_pig
» RE: speak for yourself. -- I am. Never mind your ignorance. You are pathetically selfish.
Posted by: Pat Kittle
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Posted by: wli on Aug 7, 2006 12:32 AM
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I suppose it's après moi la deluge as usual from the political elite.
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» Remember the canary in the mineshaft.
Posted by: Sojourner
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Posted by: Max-TB on Aug 7, 2006 3:24 AM
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Peter Raven appears to be a member of its Executive committee as well as several others scientists (Us, UK, France)
Imoseb Website
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» Quoth the Raven?
Posted by: coldeye
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Posted by: rsaxto on Aug 7, 2006 3:51 AM
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» Radiate The Flocks and they will Be Fruitful and Multiply: Gorean Science at its Best
Posted by: coldeye
» RE: how many
Posted by: fungus
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Posted by: Chevaliere on Aug 7, 2006 4:00 AM
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Climate change over the next 20 years could result in a global catastrophe costing millions of lives in wars and natural disasters..
A secret report, suppressed by US defence chiefs and obtained by The Observer, warns that major European cities will be sunk beneath rising seas as Britain is plunged into a 'Siberian' climate by 2020. Nuclear conflict, mega-droughts, famine and widespread rioting will erupt across the world.
The document predicts that abrupt climate change could bring the planet to the edge of anarchy as countries develop a nuclear threat to defend and secure dwindling food, water and energy supplies. The threat to global stability vastly eclipses that of terrorism, say the few experts privy to its contents.
'Disruption and conflict will be endemic features of life,' concludes the Pentagon analysis. 'Once again, warfare would define human life.'
Even though the article suggests that this is an "embarassment" to the Bush Administration, I think that we can perceive the entire "War of Terror" as the U.S. response to this report. If we look carefully at the policies of the U.S. and Israel, we can see that they obviously know what is coming upon the Earth and they are making sure that they and their Pathocratic pals are at the top of the heap when everything shakes down.
The masses of humanity have to be distracted from this, of course, or they might demand that provisions be made for their survival as well. It is to that end that 911 was perpetrated and the so-called "War on Terror" was created. After all, how better to solve the problem of the hungry masses that might rise up against their Masters than to make sure that as many of them are occupied with killing one another as possible? And how better to do this than to create religious and ideological divisions? It also serves to eliminate extra mouths to feed, so DO expect the use of biological warfare - it's an efficient way to wipe out vast numbers of people while still leaving the infrastructure intact.
As to WHO gets to be selected to survive, it would be wise for everyone to get and read "Political Ponerology: The Science of Evil Adjusted for Political Purposes and "911: The Ultimate Truth" - both available from Red Pill Press - in order to know who is who and what is what.
Finally, for regular updates on this situation, read Signs of the Times a website that realized what was going on and has been discussing this issue since 1998. Only now are such views becoming more mainstream mainly due to the fact that it is getting too obvious to hide. Meanwhile, the killing continues and will accelerate massively in the next two years. Take that to the bank. We need to figure this out FAST. The time period may be much, MUCH shorter than 20 years.
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» What Reich? The Red Chinese Burn the Dirtiest and Most Coal.
Posted by: coldeye
» RE: What Reich? The Red Chinese Burn the Dirtiest and Most Coal.
Posted by: bornxeyed
» We're Not Close to a "Major" Extinction
Posted by: coldeye
» RE: We're Not Close to a "Major" Extinction
Posted by: willymack
» RE: We're Not Close to a "Major" Extinction
Posted by: bornxeyed
» RE: We're Not Close to a "Major" Extinction
Posted by: bornxeyed
» correction...
Posted by: bornxeyed
» RE: What Reich? The Red Chinese Burn the Dirtiest and Most Coal.
Posted by: bornxeyed
» RE: Mass Extinction and the Bush Reich
Posted by: marklar
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Posted by: coldeye on Aug 7, 2006 4:48 AM
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So I will not pray[to Whom do you suggest I pray? George Soros?] that people wake up about "global warming" as you suggest.
I will pray, though I am an agnostic pantheist, that you take a vow of silence and retire to Mt. Athos to reduce greenhouse hot gases.
Oh no! Cute seals and pandas will Die! Well, we got rid of the big ugly cold blooded dinosaurs last time, so it's the fuzzy, furry guys turn this time. And the good news is that maybe the "human" species will go on its meaningless way this time. I'm rooting for the insects. I think they will establish true Communism.
Mother Nature is a Dangerous Bitch. Solar warming, volcanoes, earthquakes, meteors, asteroids. The Second Coming (That's a Joke, Liberals!!!!!!!!)
Worry about a more imminent extinction. Literacy in contemporary society. A few more multicultural programs, no child left behinds, or encouraging kids to watch self-esteem videos instead of reading Homer or Huck Finn and we'll be so dumb we won't know if we are dead or not.
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» RE: Power to the Beetles!
Posted by: Uncle Tupelo
» Nature is the Biggest Extinguisher of All
Posted by: coldeye
» RE: Nature is the Biggest Extinguisher of All-not the point
Posted by: Drclaw
» Where is the Proof Our Survival is in real dire danger?
Posted by: coldeye
» RE: Where is the Proof Our Survival is in real dire danger?
Posted by: willymack
» RE: Where is the Proof Our Survival is in real dire danger?
Posted by: willymack
» RE: Where is the Proof Our Survival is in real dire danger-you may not believe it, but proof HERE
Posted by: Drclaw
» RE: Nature is the Biggest Extinguisher of All
Posted by: Uncle Tupelo
» Uncle Tupelo's Dead and He's Gone
Posted by: coldeye
» RE: Uncle Tupelo's Dead and He's Gone
Posted by: Uncle Tupelo
» Make of It What You Will
Posted by: coldeye
» RE: Make of It What You Will
Posted by: Uncle Tupelo
» RE: Power to the Beetles!
Posted by: bornxeyed
» It All Out There[Just Spend Your Life Searching and not Preaching]
Posted by: coldeye
» RE: It All Out There[Just Spend Your Life Searching and not Preaching]
Posted by: bornxeyed
» RE: It All Out There[Just Spend Your Life Searching and not Preaching]
Posted by: coldeye
» RE: It All Out There[Just Spend Your Life Searching and not Preaching]
Posted by: bornxeyed
Comments are closed-
Posted by: marklar on Aug 7, 2006 6:45 AM
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But the birds, there are so many. Bald eagles, many hawks, the sounds and songs echoing through the forest, they make me feel like I'm the last Mohican when in that particlar parcel of forest. Sadly, in fact, I'm one of many more intruders who will be soon overtaking this wonderous natural land. Civilization is fast encroahing as east staters and more New Yorkers bring their rat race, obnoxious attitudes, Suvs, and Mcmansion contractors northwards to this last holdout of old forest. Even the relatives of Georege Schultz (Reagans George Shultz) have property nearby and suddenly have posted no tresapassing signs and are petitioning the state Highway Department to close off a a highway turnout used for parking by hikers over a mile away form their land. It's land that they never use, and don't live on, it's surrounded by state forest on three sides and the state highway, which is a two-way road. It's a very very remote parcel with some houses nearby on the roadside that were built between the Civil War and the depression. Oh, and Schultzes have a castle across the road more than a mile away from their private forest. Ah, the ownership society!
Getting back to birds - I watched a woodpecker banging on a tree one day. It made huge holes in the tree in several places and worked non-stop (what else could it do without union wages and no mandatory breaks?) It was one of the most fascinating sites I've ever seen. And the sound too! I watched it for a while, had a snack, and left it working away. I returnd a few days later and there were even more holes completed. This article just reminds me of how sad but true reality is. I'm grateful to have lived in this area and experienced the natrual beauty before the mass of me firsters invade and trample on this beautiful place in ways I and other kikers do not. The end.
Thanks to Alternet for posting the article. It's a good reprive from our other disasters in the making.
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Posted by: xenacat on Aug 7, 2006 6:54 AM
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» Thank God Those Clearburn Savages Were Cleaned Out
Posted by: coldeye
» RE: Thank God Those Clearburn Savages Were Cleaned Out
Posted by: mazel
» RE: Thank God Those Clearburn Savages Were Cleaned Out
Posted by: Lizmv
» RE: Thank God Those Clearburn Savages Were Cleaned Out
Posted by: bornxeyed
» Watch it Asswipe! I'm fucking Cherokee!
Posted by: Againstthewindwalking
» RE: denial - and they never offer a solution
Posted by: marklar
» You feel a thrill when you see those shiny boots and the swastika?
Posted by: coldeye
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Posted by: hapibeli on Aug 7, 2006 6:57 AM
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» You have a deed?
Posted by: coldeye
» RE: smallest mark after living here the least amount of time.
Posted by: willymack
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Posted by: hapibeli on Aug 7, 2006 7:08 AM
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Posted by: Iconoclast421 on Aug 7, 2006 7:40 AM
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What we humans do is inconsequential compared to that.
Actually, we and we alone have the ability to prevent such devastation. Maybe not now, not really, not yet. But soon, if we can focus a little less on killing each other.
I'd be more worried if humans were maniacally obsessed with wiping out all other forms of life, but we're not that evil. Most of us can't stomach the thought of killing anything more than a fly or a mouse. We get queasy when we think about how many animals we slaughter each day. As long as that feeling is present we have nothing to worry about.
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» RE: xtinction is a part of the planet's natural lifecycle
Posted by: Uncle Tupelo
» Its All Over Now Baby Tupelo
Posted by: coldeye
» RE: xtinction is a part of the planet's natural lifecycle-see above post in response to coldeye
Posted by: Drclaw
» RE: xtinction is a part of the planet's natural lifecycle-see above post in response to coldeye
Posted by: willymack
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Posted by: sausage on Aug 7, 2006 8:32 AM
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The planet's geological history, as the above article notes, has gone through other mass extinction events. The Earth has always recovered, in millions of years. However during past mass extinction events the environment was never degraded past the point of regeneration. Something was always able to survive, flourish and evolve.
We now have the power to destory the environment to the degree that no new species will evolve to take the ecological niche of those we are killing.
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» RE: xtinction is the engine of evolution
Posted by: magmaybe
» Too Gloomy, Sausage.
Posted by: coldeye
» RE: Too Gloomy, Sausage.
Posted by: bornxeyed
» Hey, x, where ya been?
Posted by: Sojourner
» Man, you make me feel old.
Posted by: coldeye
» RE: Man, you make me feel old.
Posted by: bornxeyed
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Posted by: magmaybe on Aug 7, 2006 8:40 AM
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And as for previous mass extinction not caused by human interference - okay. So what? And maybe we will not be the cause of any *mass* extinction in the foreseeable future. I think this is false, but for the purposes of examining our way of living on this planet, it does remain a *fact* that human beings cause the extinction of species right now, and this is a moral issue. Let's deal with that.
Of course we will kill other beings for food or by accident, or in conflict/self-defense. But this natural way of living in relationship within an ecosystem is not the same as destroying an entire species so that we can build luxury condos. It boggles the mind that this distinction even needs to be made.
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» What's this? Albert Schweitzer's "reverence for life"?
Posted by: Sojourner
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Posted by: Jesse on Aug 7, 2006 9:06 AM
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While it is true that species have disappeared before, let it be said that sometimes it has had a far-reaching effect on people, their environment and their cultures, and in fact humans have been pretty good at wiping out species.
Take the hoary example of buffalo. Their disappearance made it impossible for the natives of the continent to continue their pre-contact habits, even if you discount the effect of horses (another introduced species). But the buffalo did more than that--their running across the plains in their millions churned the soil, and opened up areas for different species of grasses. No buffalo, and the whole thing is out of whack.
Or human agriculture. We wiped out huge chunks of the plains grass ecosystem and replaced it with monoculture farms. The result was the dust bowl the minute the weather got a little hotter and dryer. That was huge.
The problem with species disappearing is we don't really know which of them may prove really, really vital to our continued survival. for instance, earthworms. How important are they? Try doing agriculture without them. It ain't easy. Do we know exactly how many insect species may be related to them in some important way? Nope. So letting them go extinct seems pretty stupid, to me.
Elephants. Need them to rip down the acacias and clear the land for new trees, which also keeps the soil nice and loose and healthy (and is the reason you can grow a darned thing in Africa at all because local forests trap moisture).
Insects are also really, really important to pollination (anyone who grew squash in Connecticut should remember the last honeybee shortage in 1997) and to some trees and shrubs.
Now, it is true that a huge natural disaster -- a meteor strike by anythign bigger than about 10 km across, for instance--would render all this stuff moot. But I would rather we do our best to maintain the species diversity we have just in case we need something. Kind of an insurance policy, if you will. And there is no erason not to do things that make human survival easier and more likely.
These things operate as systems, and while they are pretty robust, they are not infinitely so.
Another aside about mass extinctions: The number of phyla on earth has remained pretty constant since the Cambrian (about 500 million years back). The Cambrian explosion produced a lot of experimentation with body plans. But all that stops after the big extinction at the Ordovican boundary. (Stephen Jay Gould wrote a whole book about this, though later paleontologists disagree with the specifics he seems to have been right that there are extinct phyla that do not exist today).
The point is that with fewer phyla, it is harder for living things to recover with enough diversity to get through future extinction events. I'd hate to be in the extinction event that kills off vertebrates (chordata) for example. That would likely pretty much preclude the re-emergence of intelligent life.
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» Why is the disappearance of "intelligent" life a bad thing?
Posted by: coldeye
» Sloths and human 'rights'
Posted by: Sojourner
» Dissenters on Alternet: Not Welcome
Posted by: coldeye
» RE: Dissenters on Alternet: Not Welcome
Posted by: Jesse
» RE: Dissenters on Alternet: Not Welcome
Posted by: Uncle Tupelo
» Oh Indulge Democracy for another couple of years: Your 1984 Ideal Will Be Here Soon
Posted by: coldeye
» Informed dissent is always welcome
Posted by: Drclaw
» Make A Claim: Burden of Proof is on the Claimer
Posted by: coldeye
» RE: Make A Claim: Burden of Proof is on the Claimer
Posted by: Drclaw
» RE: Make A Claim: Burden of Proof is on the Claimer
Posted by: Jesse
» RE: I claim that there are no more passenger pigeons!
Posted by: Againstthewindwalking
» RE: Make A Claim: Burden of Proof is on the Claimer
Posted by: bornxeyed
» RE: Dissenters on Alternet: Not Welcome
Posted by: bornxeyed
» RE: Dissenters on Alternet: Not Well Informed
Posted by: bornxeyed
» RE: Dissenters on Alternet: Not Well Informed-THANKS ALL
Posted by: Drclaw
» I wouldn't worry about inteligent life, Coleye! You don't fit the criteria, anyway!
Posted by: Againstthewindwalking
» the existence of intelligent life is important because....
Posted by: lyle-tate
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Posted by: monkeywrench on Aug 7, 2006 9:55 AM
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And apparently, given the endless number of passes handed over to the Bush administration by the media, we need to know the exact status of every neuron in the brains of every single neocon before we can assess their level of greed and stupidity.
And do you think we'll need to know the exact status of every aspect of our deteriorated environment to know when it will no longer support OUR species? Oh, I bet we'll "get it" then. . .
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» Just think, the Harvest Moon Will Be Up Soon
Posted by: coldeye
» RE: The absolute status of our demise.
Posted by: ConnecttheDots
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Posted by: Gregor on Aug 7, 2006 10:50 AM
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Posted by: Lathor on Aug 7, 2006 2:30 PM
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Posted by: thoughtcriminal on Aug 7, 2006 6:29 PM
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However, the modern global economy puts no value on biodiversity; the players are looking for the fast buck - cutting down hundreds of acres of old-growth redwoods as fast as you can to pay off junk bonds is one example of this idiotic behavior. This is just more evidence of the suicidal effects of short-term profitteering - an unhealthy obsession with quarterly results, in other words.
The last thing resource extraction industries want is the Endangered Species Act; getting rid of it is probably the #1 goal of the financiers and PR types who are involved in mining, agribusiness, fossil fuels, timber, etc. No doubt many of the comments on this thread are motivated by such considerations. However, for the rest of us conserving biodiversity does have real value.
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» Did you catch the story about the Magician's Hat (?) Snail?
Posted by: Sojourner
» RE: Did you catch the story about the Magician's Hat (?) Snail?-Many more examples
Posted by: Drclaw
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Posted by: carrie on Aug 7, 2006 7:46 PM
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Posted by: Againstthewindwalking on Aug 8, 2006 9:20 AM
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I'm borrowing Ray's computer and login. Don't ban him Alternet! I don't come here often! Just letting everybody know that if they thought Alternet shut me up, WRONG!!!
Bornxeyed, long time no hear from! Check out the blog! You'll like it! I know you ain't no troll, but if I remember correctly, you do like to chomp on them once in a while! Anybody else want to sink their teeth in a troll, I'm sure they will come (if they got the balls, that is!) The address is above!
Come on Conservasaurus, Cryofan, Johnnyboy, Coldeye, and the rest!!! The Devil wants to dance, and he went out and hired a band! Best thing is, it won't cost you a dime, and I WON"T BAN YA!!!! You don't scare me!
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» Call For Help
Posted by: coldeye
» RE: C'mon Coldeye! Don't get Stoney fired up again!
Posted by: Againstthewindwalking
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Posted by: DCostello on Aug 8, 2006 9:38 AM
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» You have a doomsday device in your basement?
Posted by: coldeye
» RE: Future of planet = end of humans
Posted by: bornxeyed
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Posted by: dogot on Aug 8, 2006 11:13 AM
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Call of Life: Facing the Mass Extinction
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Posted by: dbaker on Aug 10, 2006 6:53 AM
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dennisbaker2003@hotmail.com
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Posted by: sushil_yadav on Aug 29, 2006 11:00 AM
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Industrial Society Destroys Mind and Environment
Subject : In a fast society slow emotions become extinct.
Subject : A thinking mind cannot feel.
Subject : Scientific/ Industrial/ Financial thinking destroys the planet.
Subject : Environment can never be saved as long as cities exist.
A FAST (LARGE) SOCIETY CANNOT FEEL PAIN / REMORSE / EMPATHY.
A FAST (LARGE) SOCIETY WILL ALWAYS BE CRUEL TO ANIMALS/ TREES/ AIR/ WATER/ LAND AND TO ITSELF.
To read the complete article please follow either of these links :
Article
Article
sushil_yadav
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