COMMENTS: 45
The Return Of Nazi Oil
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This expensive coal-to-liquid process was later used by South Africa to meet its energy needs during its isolation under apartheid.
Now what some people refer to as “Nazi fuel†is back—-thanks in part to high oil prices and lobbying by groups that stand to profit by its use in the United States. Former Republican congressman Bob Livingston was paid more than $200,000 last year to lobby for federal loan guarantees for the North American branch of the South Africa-based Sasol corporation, which is trying to peddle this process.Â
Using this coal-to-liquid fuel is also an integral recommendation of a new report by the Southern States Energy Board, a collection of governors, state lawmakers and big polluters. They are trying to argue that their parochial interests-—including promoting more coal mining-—are synonymous with the national interest on energy issues.Â
But the fact is their interests are not the same as the American public’s interests-—which is anxious for sustainable solutions to our dependence on oil.
In its relatively uncritical coverage, the New York Times described the SSEB report as “a crash program to meet fuel needs without imports… a strategy [that] could create more than one million new jobs, reduce the trade deficit by more than $600 billion, and end oil price shocks that hurt the economy.â€
Whoa. Sounds good, but policymakers ought to be wary of being seduced by such hyperbole about groups like SSEB.Â
It’s not that everything the energy board has recommended is bad. In fact, some of their ideas—-such as using more biomass and pumping carbon dioxide deep into oil fields to squeeze out more oil—-do have merit.
But frankly it would make better public policy if Congress paid less attention to such self-interested private groups like SSEB. The energy board’s “associate members†include a rogue’s gallery of some of the nation’s most odious polluters including American Electric Power, the Southern Company, and the TXU Corporation. Instead, lawmakers should listen to independent groups like NRDC and 20/20 Vision that are looking not just to reduce our dependence on foreign oil, but the bigger problem of our addiction to oil altogether.Â
For example, the energy board report left out perhaps the most effective way to cut down on oil use-—better fuel economy standards. Then again, that wouldn’t bring in any cash for American Electric Power and the other heavy hitters.Â
These choices do matter, because going down the wrong path opens the door for unintended consequences.
As my friends at NRDC have pointed out, unless the resulting carbon dioxide is stored underground, coal-based synthetic fuels can produce about double the greenhouse gas emissions of normal gasoline because it takes so much energy to convert the coal. (Pennsylvania is struggling to get one coal-to-liquid project off the ground. This one might have some merit-—if they can capture and store the carbon—-because it would eliminate some coal wastes that pollute the state’s waters.)
Or consider another recommendation of the energy board: to try extracting more oil from shale in such states as Wyoming, Colorado and Utah.Â
Some of us are old enough to remember the hype over the very same idea when Jimmy Carter was president and we were concerned about unrest in the Middle East. In fact, Congress in that era created a Synthetic Fuels Corporation, backed by $20 billion in subsidies, aimed at squeezing oil from the shale. It’s generally been remembered as a classic boondoggle.
Repeating this boondoggle would, of course, be lucrative to some of the corporate members of the Southern States Energy Board, which are neither Southern nor states. But the Rand Corporation recently assessed some of the environmental impacts, which included more air pollution, more greenhouse gas emissions, disturbed land and threats to water quality.
Just another reason to avoid the déjà vu, and look for real solutions to our excessive and wasteful use of energy.
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Comments are closed-
Posted by: colinmeister on Jul 21, 2006 3:43 AM
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To describe a chemical engineering process as "Nazi" doesn't make much sense, since there is no evidence that those who came up with the idea in the first place were even members of the National Socialist party in Germany.
Maybe, if you carry on this line of titling your articles, you should report on the "Nazi" space program, since liquid fueled rockets were also developed by Germany during the second world war; and Dr. Werner Von Braun, who was a leading figure in their development, was a pioneer of the American space program?
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» RE: A headline worthy of a tabloid.
Posted by: larry278
» RE: A headline worthy of a tabloid.
Posted by: MatthewSavage
» RE: A headline worthy of a tabloid.
Posted by: ft
» RE: A headline worthy of a tabloid.
Posted by: Lindie
» RE: A headline worthy of a tabloid.
Posted by: alterhead
» It's an incredibly loaded phrase
Posted by: nickptar
Comments are closed-
Posted by: NDnative on Jul 21, 2006 5:25 AM
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» Amen to that, HEMP = GOOD NEWS!!!
Posted by: brasilaron
» I wished South Dakota were like North Dakota on hemp ! The DEA terrorized us in 1998 !
Posted by: SDres11
» growing fuel?
Posted by: Allison
» RE: Yeah, Pothead oil!
Posted by: deo508
» RE: Yeah, Pothead oil! sickof sleaze
Posted by: ladybug1@carrollsweb.com
» RE: Yeah, Pothead oil! sickof sleaze
Posted by: deo508
» RE: For the country's sake when will they all switch to hemp ?!?!?
Posted by: nickptar
» RE: For the country's sake when will they all switch to hemp ?!?!?
Posted by: SDres11
Comments are closed-
Posted by: maxpayne on Jul 21, 2006 5:30 AM
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Sadly, Lakoff's scary prediction is about to come true.
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Posted by: douglashoyt on Jul 21, 2006 7:05 AM
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» socializing energy production
Posted by: drappleby
» RE: Hugo Chavez is the best president in this Hemisphere since FDR
Posted by: deo508
Comments are closed-
Posted by: drappleby on Jul 21, 2006 7:37 AM
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» Plan B-Z would include legalizing hemp and generating hemp oil alongside conservation.
Posted by: maxpayne
» RE: Americans want the lifestyle but not pay the dues
Posted by: kineticutan
» RE: Americans want the lifestyle but not pay the dues
Posted by: drappleby
» RE: The "lifestyle" is just an illusion
Posted by: deo508
» RE: Americans want the lifestyle but not pay the dues
Posted by: astudent
» RE: Americans want the lifestyle but not pay the dues
Posted by: drappleby
Comments are closed-
Posted by: Roverton on Jul 21, 2006 9:46 AM
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» RE: So then...
Posted by: deo508
» RE: So then...
Posted by: Roverton
Comments are closed-
Posted by: AdamSelene40 on Jul 21, 2006 11:00 AM
Current rating: Not yet rated [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
And on top of it we' re 'Enviros' ... we don't know if we want to save the Planet, save the whales (and other 'cuddly plush toy' species ), save the real estate values, save the wildnerness ( pristine wilderness, national park wilderness, the IDEA of wilderness, ) save our Souls -- or save a Buck. (Yeah, there's some of us who think Whitetail Deer are an Endangered Species because rednecks hunt them with rifles.)
Then on to the more substantive issues:
1) There's 'energy independence'. American foreign policy is driven by the lust for cheap, easy to refine oil. Develop alternatives, there's less War for Oil motive in Christendom, and less "control the Oil control the Region," motive in Araby. Less War, Less Terror, more resources and attention span for ... ta da:
2) The 'carbon load' issue. Burn fossil fuel, add to global warming. The allure of coal-sand and coal-shale technologies are that 'we' don't have to fight wars to get the stuff -- AND it can be used for manufacturing plastics and fertilizers just like the middle eastern liquid stuff. it's only a question of :
3) "Price" ... We can have, for example, safe nuclear energy from or energy independent homes -- it's just a question of cost. Electricity from reactors is marginally 'competative' with coal or natural gas. If you factor in the cost of sequestering and guarding the spent fuel, though, it isn't. If on the other hand you assign a value to the carbon loading from the fossil fuel -- it is. Solar hot water heaters have been around for decades the 'payback' north of Washington DC is about 7 years. "Not fast enough" for most homeowners, and don't add enough to the percieved value of a new house that builders are eager to install them.
There's a lot of moderately bad reasons to reject some technology or other because it doesn't solve the entire problem overnight ... but to reject technology essentially because 70 years ago bad people used successfully -- that's that's entirely too Moonbat, even for me.
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» RE: NAZI gasoline.
Posted by: kineticutan
» RE: NAZI gasoline.
Posted by: drappleby
Comments are closed-
Posted by: davidbdr on Jul 21, 2006 11:52 AM
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» RE: Americans will take the coming energy crisis seriously...
Posted by: drappleby
Comments are closed-
Posted by: SDres11 on Jul 21, 2006 1:06 PM
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» RE: What about those oil reserves in soil in Canada?
Posted by: deo508
» RE: What about those oil reserves in soil in Canada?
Posted by: SDres11
Comments are closed-
Posted by: thoughtcriminal on Jul 21, 2006 10:58 PM
Current rating: Not yet rated [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Note also that the world's biggest biofuel programs were run by the Japanese and the Germans in their quest for global dominance after the US, Britain and Russia shut down their access to the Dutch East Indies and the Middle East, respectively. Himmler was hoping that bakeries and breweries would fuel the German war effort, and the Japanese were distilling pine roots and converting rice to ethanol in their own desperate quest to 'keep the war going'. We aren't going to start calling it Imperial Japanese ethanol, are we.
Coal is the dirtiest of all fossil fuels, no matter how you try and clean it up. It produces more CO2 per energy delivered than any other fuel, plus arsenic and mercury. Some politicallty connected coal producers are trying to get the government to boost their product, is all.
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» RE: Converting coal to liquid fuel is expensive an polluting, but..
Posted by: Lindie
» RE: Converting coal to liquid fuel is expensive an polluting, but..
Posted by: atomicrod
Comments are closed-
Posted by: miguelgomez on Jul 21, 2006 11:22 PM
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Miguel Gomez
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» PLEASE DO NOT FEED THE TROLL.
Posted by: nickptar
» RE: The "bad Nazis" as usual the genius of all times...
Posted by: Lindie
Comments are closed-
Posted by: johnjord on Jul 24, 2006 5:36 PM
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Comments are closed-
Posted by: colinmeister on Jul 21, 2006 3:43 AM
Current rating: Not yet rated [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
To describe a chemical engineering process as "Nazi" doesn't make much sense, since there is no evidence that those who came up with the idea in the first place were even members of the National Socialist party in Germany.
Maybe, if you carry on this line of titling your articles, you should report on the "Nazi" space program, since liquid fueled rockets were also developed by Germany during the second world war; and Dr. Werner Von Braun, who was a leading figure in their development, was a pioneer of the American space program?
[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]
» RE: A headline worthy of a tabloid.
Posted by: larry278
» RE: A headline worthy of a tabloid.
Posted by: MatthewSavage
» RE: A headline worthy of a tabloid.
Posted by: ft
» RE: A headline worthy of a tabloid.
Posted by: Lindie
» RE: A headline worthy of a tabloid.
Posted by: alterhead
» It's an incredibly loaded phrase
Posted by: nickptar
Comments are closed-
Posted by: NDnative on Jul 21, 2006 5:25 AM
Current rating: Not yet rated [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]
» Amen to that, HEMP = GOOD NEWS!!!
Posted by: brasilaron
» I wished South Dakota were like North Dakota on hemp ! The DEA terrorized us in 1998 !
Posted by: SDres11
» growing fuel?
Posted by: Allison
» RE: Yeah, Pothead oil!
Posted by: deo508
» RE: Yeah, Pothead oil! sickof sleaze
Posted by: ladybug1@carrollsweb.com
» RE: Yeah, Pothead oil! sickof sleaze
Posted by: deo508
» RE: For the country's sake when will they all switch to hemp ?!?!?
Posted by: nickptar
» RE: For the country's sake when will they all switch to hemp ?!?!?
Posted by: SDres11
Comments are closed-
Posted by: maxpayne on Jul 21, 2006 5:30 AM
Current rating: Not yet rated [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Sadly, Lakoff's scary prediction is about to come true.
[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]
Comments are closed-
Posted by: douglashoyt on Jul 21, 2006 7:05 AM
Current rating: Not yet rated [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
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» socializing energy production
Posted by: drappleby
» RE: Hugo Chavez is the best president in this Hemisphere since FDR
Posted by: deo508
Comments are closed-
Posted by: drappleby on Jul 21, 2006 7:37 AM
Current rating: Not yet rated [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]
» Plan B-Z would include legalizing hemp and generating hemp oil alongside conservation.
Posted by: maxpayne
» RE: Americans want the lifestyle but not pay the dues
Posted by: kineticutan
» RE: Americans want the lifestyle but not pay the dues
Posted by: drappleby
» RE: The "lifestyle" is just an illusion
Posted by: deo508
» RE: Americans want the lifestyle but not pay the dues
Posted by: astudent
» RE: Americans want the lifestyle but not pay the dues
Posted by: drappleby
Comments are closed-
Posted by: Roverton on Jul 21, 2006 9:46 AM
Current rating: Not yet rated [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]
» RE: So then...
Posted by: deo508
» RE: So then...
Posted by: Roverton
Comments are closed-
Posted by: AdamSelene40 on Jul 21, 2006 11:00 AM
Current rating: Not yet rated [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
And on top of it we' re 'Enviros' ... we don't know if we want to save the Planet, save the whales (and other 'cuddly plush toy' species ), save the real estate values, save the wildnerness ( pristine wilderness, national park wilderness, the IDEA of wilderness, ) save our Souls -- or save a Buck. (Yeah, there's some of us who think Whitetail Deer are an Endangered Species because rednecks hunt them with rifles.)
Then on to the more substantive issues:
1) There's 'energy independence'. American foreign policy is driven by the lust for cheap, easy to refine oil. Develop alternatives, there's less War for Oil motive in Christendom, and less "control the Oil control the Region," motive in Araby. Less War, Less Terror, more resources and attention span for ... ta da:
2) The 'carbon load' issue. Burn fossil fuel, add to global warming. The allure of coal-sand and coal-shale technologies are that 'we' don't have to fight wars to get the stuff -- AND it can be used for manufacturing plastics and fertilizers just like the middle eastern liquid stuff. it's only a question of :
3) "Price" ... We can have, for example, safe nuclear energy from or energy independent homes -- it's just a question of cost. Electricity from reactors is marginally 'competative' with coal or natural gas. If you factor in the cost of sequestering and guarding the spent fuel, though, it isn't. If on the other hand you assign a value to the carbon loading from the fossil fuel -- it is. Solar hot water heaters have been around for decades the 'payback' north of Washington DC is about 7 years. "Not fast enough" for most homeowners, and don't add enough to the percieved value of a new house that builders are eager to install them.
There's a lot of moderately bad reasons to reject some technology or other because it doesn't solve the entire problem overnight ... but to reject technology essentially because 70 years ago bad people used successfully -- that's that's entirely too Moonbat, even for me.
[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]
» RE: NAZI gasoline.
Posted by: kineticutan
» RE: NAZI gasoline.
Posted by: drappleby
Comments are closed-
Posted by: davidbdr on Jul 21, 2006 11:52 AM
Current rating: Not yet rated [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]
» RE: Americans will take the coming energy crisis seriously...
Posted by: drappleby
Comments are closed-
Posted by: SDres11 on Jul 21, 2006 1:06 PM
Current rating: Not yet rated [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
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» RE: What about those oil reserves in soil in Canada?
Posted by: deo508
» RE: What about those oil reserves in soil in Canada?
Posted by: SDres11
Comments are closed-
Posted by: thoughtcriminal on Jul 21, 2006 10:58 PM
Current rating: Not yet rated [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Note also that the world's biggest biofuel programs were run by the Japanese and the Germans in their quest for global dominance after the US, Britain and Russia shut down their access to the Dutch East Indies and the Middle East, respectively. Himmler was hoping that bakeries and breweries would fuel the German war effort, and the Japanese were distilling pine roots and converting rice to ethanol in their own desperate quest to 'keep the war going'. We aren't going to start calling it Imperial Japanese ethanol, are we.
Coal is the dirtiest of all fossil fuels, no matter how you try and clean it up. It produces more CO2 per energy delivered than any other fuel, plus arsenic and mercury. Some politicallty connected coal producers are trying to get the government to boost their product, is all.
[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]
» RE: Converting coal to liquid fuel is expensive an polluting, but..
Posted by: Lindie
» RE: Converting coal to liquid fuel is expensive an polluting, but..
Posted by: atomicrod
Comments are closed-
Posted by: miguelgomez on Jul 21, 2006 11:22 PM
Current rating: Not yet rated [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Miguel Gomez
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» PLEASE DO NOT FEED THE TROLL.
Posted by: nickptar
» RE: The "bad Nazis" as usual the genius of all times...
Posted by: Lindie
Comments are closed-
Posted by: johnjord on Jul 24, 2006 5:36 PM
Current rating: Not yet rated [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
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