COMMENTS: 238
Air-conditioning: Our Cross to Bear
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In the 50 years since air-conditioning hit the mass market, America has become so well-addicted that our dependence goes almost entirely unremarked. A/C is built into our economy and our culture. Stepping from a torrid parking lot into a 72-degree, air-conditioned lobby can provide a degree of instantaneous relief and physical pleasure experienced through few other legal means. But if the effect of air-conditioning on a hot human being can be compared to that of a pain-relieving drug, its economic impact is more like that of an anabolic steroid. And withdrawal, when it comes, will be painful.
We're as committed to air-conditioning as we are to cars and computer chips. And a device lucky enough to become indispensable can demand and get whatever it needs to keep running. For the air-conditioner, that's a lot.
The costly care and feeding of AC
Like a refrigerator, an air-conditioner works by piping a chemical refrigerant through cycles of compression and expansion. The refrigerant absorbs heat from cool interior air and releases it to the hot air of the great outdoors. In doing so, it's impeded by the Second Law of Thermodynamics, or Entropy Law, which says that temperatures tend to even out -- that heat naturally flows from a hot to a cold area. So an air-conditioner has to mechanically compress the gaseous refrigerant into much hotter liquid form and pump it through outdoor coils from which it can release the heat it has absorbed. To do that requires a lot of energy, usually from a power plant or a vehicle engine.
Almost one kilowatt-hour of electricity out of every five consumed in the United States in a full year goes to cooling buildings. Much of the nation's excess power-generating capacity, which sits idle until needed to satisfy quick spikes in demand, has had to be built because of air-conditioning.
The electricity used annually to air-condition America's homes, stores, offices, factories, schools, churches, libraries, domed stadiums, hospitals, warehouses, prisons and other buildings (not including what's used to cool manufacturing processes and military facilities) exceeds the entire electricity consumption of the world's second and fourth most populous nations -- India and Indonesia -- combined.
The refreshing air that comes out of an air-conditioning system has an evil twin: carbon-laden exhaust from the utilities that power it. Just about 50 percent of U.S. electricity is generated with coal; 21 percent with other fossil fuels, mostly natural gas; 20 percent with nuclear fission; less than 7 percent with hydroelectric dams; and about 2 percent with biomass, wind and solar methods combined. Coal is the worst carbon dioxide producer, but all of those methods generate greenhouse gases and other ecological hazards during construction and operation.
In January, the Environmental Protection Agency (EPA) raised energy-efficiency standards for newly manufactured home central air-conditioners by 30 percent. Central air units typically last 15 to 20 years, so the new regulation will have little effect in the near future. Even if all units were replaced overnight, it would mean less than a 5 percent reduction in the power that's used to air-condition buildings. That's because the new rules don't apply to window units or to nonresidential air-conditioning.
The average household in the southeastern United States consumes almost twice as much electricity as the average household in New England, but air-conditioning doesn't account for that entire disparity. Southerners use a lot more power for all appliances, whatever the season. Of course, northern households consume more fossil fuel for heat, but in the dead of winter, heating cannot be dispensed with.
There is scope to save energy in both heating and air-conditioning by improving insulation. Energy used in heating could also be cut by setting thermostats at cooler temperatures, but air-conditioning is more of an all-or-nothing proposition. At a certain point on the thermostat, a stuffy, frugally cooled house or office becomes intolerable; a hot breeze from outside can be far preferable.
Driving from a cool home to a bracing workplace to a chilly supermarket would be a severe shock to the system if done in a non-air-conditioned car, so you'll find such cars only on "vintage" lots. Government tests have shown that running an air-conditioner can decrease a car's fuel efficiency by 4 miles per gallon. Excess fuel consumption is lower on the highway, higher in the city and incalculable when the engine and AC are left running in a parked pickup truck to keep a Dachshund comfortable.
(The long-running debate over whether you'll use less gas on a long highway trip by keeping the windows open -- which increases the car's aerodynamic drag -- or rolling them up and turning on the AC -- which puts an extra load on the engine -- seems to have ended in a tie.)
About 5.5 percent of the gasoline burned annually by America's cars and light trucks -- 7 billion gallons -- goes to run air-conditioners. That's equivalent to the total oil consumption of Indonesia, a petroleum-rich country with a population size comparable to ours. Four states -- California, Arizona, Texas and Florida -- account for 35 percent of that extra fuel consumption.
In years to come, we may be cranking air-conditioners up as high as they'll go to provide some relief from human-fueled global warming. But that will only aggravate the crisis. Air-conditioning accelerates the greenhouse effect not only by increasing the use of coal and other fossil fuels but also by releasing refrigerants.
Since the 1987 Montreal Protocol on Substances that Deplete the Ozone Layer, there has been a major shift in types of refrigerants used in air-conditioning and refrigeration. In particular, highly ozone-threatening chlorofluorocarbons (CFCs) are being phased out, most quickly in wealthier countries.
CFCs not only damage ozone, they also have the highest global-warming potential. But all commonly used refrigerants are greenhouse gases, and every pound produced is destined eventually to escape into the atmosphere during manufacture, use, recharge, recycling, disposal.
Fifty-six percent of refrigerants worldwide are used for air-conditioning buildings and vehicles. North America, with 6 percent of the world's people, accounts for nearly 40 percent of its refrigerant market, as well as 43 percent of all refrigerants currently "banked" inside appliances and 38 percent of the resultant global-warming effects.
Finally, in counting costs, it's important to consider not only fuel and refrigerants but also the materials -- steel, copper, plastics and a lot more -- that have gone into building up the nation's colossal tonnage of air-conditioning capacity.
Heating up the economy
As a device explicitly designed to outrun the Second Law of Thermodynamics, an air-conditioner vividly illustrates the inevitable destruction caused by all economic activity, a process first described by Nicholas Georgescu-Roegen, the godfather of ecological economics.
Georgescu-Roegen wrote in his 1971 book "The Entropy Law and the Economic Process" that despite the neat, closed-loop flow charts depicted in textbooks, the economic process "is not circular but unidirectional. As far as this facet alone is concerned, the economic process consists of a continuous transformation of low entropy into high entropy, that is, into irrevocable waste."
Georgescu-Roegen went on to demonstrate the futility of growth-dependent economic systems, showing that in human societies, "production" is a phantom, that economic activity can be represented by just two factors: consumption of resources -- concentrated energy, useful materials and our ecological life-support system -- and elimination of useless or less useful wastes. When all is said and done, he argued, an economy's only product is nonmaterial "enjoyment of life," which can be banked only in the form of memories.
As it creates fleeting enjoyment through a state of low entropy (in this case, an island of coolness in a sea of heat) but only by increasing entropy at an even faster rate elsewhere (by using up fuels and materials and releasing useless wastes), air-conditioning is a poster child for the inevitable decay that, according to Georgescu-Roegen, is a defining characteristic of economic growth.
It's no coincidence that when the first modern central air-conditioning system was installed back in 1902, it was to cool the New York Stock Exchange.
Sweaty and sweatless sweatshops
Air-conditioning systems have been traditionally classified into two categories: "process" or "comfort." For the first half of the 20th century, process air-conditioning was emphasized, making a wide range of manufacturing industries possible on a large scale. The 1999 National Building Museum exhibit "Stay Cool! Air Conditioning America" noted that "manufacturers of products susceptible to heat and humidity -- tobacco, pasta, textiles, chocolate and color printing -- commissioned many pioneering experiments in mechanical cooling." The economic growth stimulated by such industries, and by the digital and biotech revolutions of more recent decades, could never have happened without massive doses of process air-conditioning.
Today, process AC systems account for less than 8 percent as much energy consumption as comfort systems. With the big shift from manufacturing to low-wage, white-collar jobs in the past two decades, more people than ever are working in environments with comfort air-conditioning. But in most manufacturing plants, air-conditioning is targeted only where needed, more to the benefit of equipment, inputs and products than of people.
Traditionally, humans have dealt with heat and humidity by cutting back on physical activity in the middle of the day, maybe even taking a siesta. That was before economic "competitiveness" became a universally accepted end in itself.
A story by a trade magazine on a South Carolina plastic sign factory where workers endured summer temperatures of 110 degrees listed the effects of such heat on workers' performance: inconsistency, inability to concentrate, negativity, drowsiness, headache, fatigue and vulnerability to accidents. The magazine noted that "deliberate work slowdowns, walkouts and similar job actions occur over heat problems more than any other workplace hazard."
Managers at the South Carolina plant considered and rejected heat stress remedies recommended by the Occupational Health and Safety Administration, such as allowing longer rest periods in a cooler area. They calculated that a single daily rest period of ten minutes for their 100-person work force would cost them $20,000 over a summer. As a cheaper remedy that wouldn't slow production, the company settled on large, high-capacity ceiling fans, which cost 1/28 as much as air-conditioning to install and 1/10 as much in electricity to run.
The employees would probably have preferred to have both the improved air circulation and more breaks from the heat, but no workers were quoted in the article.
In summertime office work, air-conditioning is ubiquitous. It's used because it improves productivity, but results can be unpredictable. A 2004 Cornell University study showed how uneven airflow in cooled buildings often leaves some workers sweating while others might be blowing on their hands to warm them. In the study, workers typed only half as fast at an air-conditioned 68 degrees as they did at 77.
On balance, air-conditioning doubtless stimulates production where it's used; otherwise, employers wouldn't bear the expense. But that cool, dry air also pumps up demand for goods, and that's where it really gets things moving.
Invigorating consumption
In describing the "Hot America" of the old days, the National Building Museum's exhibit painted a picture of a nation with sagging summer productivity, but more importantly, a nation with better things to do than to go shopping. It read in part,
Before air-conditioning, American life followed seasonal cycles determined by weather. Workers' productivity declined in direct proportion to the heat and humidity outside -- on the hottest days employees left work early and businesses shut their doors. Stores and theaters also closed down, unable to comfortably accommodate large groups of people in stifling interiors. Cities emptied in summers … Houses and office buildings were designed to enhance natural cooling, and people spent summer days and evenings on porches or fire escapes. They cooled off by getting wet -- opening up fire hydrants, going to the beach or diving into swimming holes.A society that follows "seasonal cycles determined by the weather" is not an easy place to keep consumer demand calibrated to a constant, frenetic level. Movie theaters were among the first businesses to use air-conditioning, turning summer from a down-time into a boom-time. Now, almost all retailing depends on gathering large numbers of people into controlled environments and inducing them not just to buy what they came for but to "go shopping."
Marketing in America is an exceptionally wasteful means of extracting Georgescu Roegen's "enjoyment of life" out of valuable resources, and it's made possible partly by air-conditioning. In a summer without AC, the mall/big-box strategy of concentrated retailing would create little more than a hot stew of bodily aromas. With it, leisurely shopping has largely displaced noncommercial pastimes for many.
Air-conditioning can also make big purchases more attractive. You can't fully enjoy a jumbo-screen TV, a PC, an SUV or an RV unless you have AC. It allows you to grill steaks in the comfort of the kitchen, play indoor golf when it's too hot outdoors or, as President Richard Nixon used to do, enjoy your fireplace even in summer.
Redefining comfort
Have Americans just gotten soft, no longer willing to tolerate temperatures or humidities outside a narrow range? Maybe, but that's only part of it. The United States of 2006 is a product of the era of cheap energy, literally built for the air-conditioner, just as it's built for the automobile.
Lehigh University professor Gail Cooper documents how that happened, in her 1998 book "Air Conditioning America: Engineers and the Controlled Environment, 1900-1960." The post-World War II building boom, she observes, provided a golden opportunity to design buildings that would accommodate, even require, a central air-conditioning system, which at that time was a technological marvel in search of a market.
To make new buildings affordable despite the huge expense of cooling systems, homes were stripped of their heavier construction materials, large eaves, high ceilings, attic fans, and cross-ventilated design. (Cooper quotes the May, 1953 issue of Fortune magazine, which described the mass-produced home of the day as a "TV-equipped hotbox.") Office buildings became massive cubes; expensive, window-accommodating H- T- and L- shaped footprints were out. Extra insulation and other conservation measures were regarded as too costly; it wasn't the architects or builders who'd be paying the utility bills.
Much of that 1950s construction tradition has hung on throughout the Age of Air Conditioning. But change is coming -- slowly. By 2010, 5 percent to 10 percent of new, nonresidential construction is expected to be of certified "green buildings," which can be 30 percent more energy-efficient than standard buildings, while they use more ecologically friendly refrigerants. Part of the reduction in summer energy use can be achieved by use of natural ventilation, architectural shading and other built-in features. But making a serious dent in that 18 percent of all U.S. electricity consumption that goes to air-conditioning will require more than that.
No renewable energy source, and no combination of high ceilings, fans, rooftop gardens or other cooling strategies, can create the intensely cool, dry indoor climates to which most Americans have become accustomed in summer. Earth-friendly methods of construction and energy generation can provide some relief from the heat, but they cannot be expected to reverse the seasons. Summertime "comfort" will have to be redefined.
Meanwhile, the high standard that's been set for passenger comfort is helping doom efforts to run cars and trucks on alternative fuels. In 2005, air-conditioners in U.S. vehicles burned up the equivalent of the nation's entire fuel-ethanol production -- twice.
If the United States is going to get serious about the deep cuts in energy consumption that are needed, the whole idea of air-conditioning has to be questioned. In doing that, we can't depend only on ourselves, as individuals, to resist that most physically seductive of technologies. It will require big shifts in public policies that affect economic growth, achieved democratically rather than in quiet -- and artificially cooled -- White House meetings or raucous stock markets.
This story is the first in a two-part series on how air-conditioning has changed society. Next week: How air-conditioning may have helped elect George W. Bush.
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Posted by: bttl on Jun 22, 2006 3:03 AM
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AC is not sustainable. The author makes great points. The waste of fuel to provide it and the impact of that fuel use is just insane. We do need to get back to our roots. Why not design homes and businesses to take advantage of natural cooling? Just planting deciduous trees in the correct place can cool a building. So can attic fans(solar), ceiling fans, cross ventilation, and...... just a simple overhang of the roof. A properly designed roof overhang can allow the low winter sun into the building helping to heat it by solar gain and keep the high summer sun out, keeping the building cool. It works quite well- the coolest spot in my house in the summer is the south facing rooms protected by the roof overhang.
I was in a store the other day which had their AC on but it wasn't working well- the place was hot and humid but they refused to shut the blasted beast off and just open the windows and doors.
I'm all for siestas too- porches, hammocks under trees, lemonade- sounds better than an air conditioned office to me....
We need to face the fact that much of what we've done the past 50 years or so just isn't working or sustainable. Back to the drawing board.....
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» the blueprint already exists: life in the past
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» Cutting down trees
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» Native Plants Rule
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» RE: Native Plants Rule
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» RE: the blueprint already exists: life in the past
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» RE: the blueprint already exists: life in the past
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» Try selling that nonsense in Vegas!
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» It works in Austin
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» RE: It works in Austin
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» RE: It works in Austin
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» RE: It works in Austin
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» RE: Try selling that nonsense in Vegas!
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» RE: Try selling that nonsense in Vegas!
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» RE: Try selling that nonsense in Vegas!
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» RE: Try selling that nonsense in Vegas!
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» RE: Try selling that nonsense in Vegas!
Posted by: tanstaafl28
» RE: Try selling that nonsense in Vegas!
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» Vegas is a mirage.
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» RE: Vegas is a mirage.
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» RE: Try selling that nonsense in Vegas!
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» RE: Try selling that nonsense in Vegas!
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» RE: Try selling that nonsense in Vegas!
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» RE: Try selling that nonsense in Vegas!
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» RE: Try selling that nonsense in Vegas!
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» RE: Try selling that nonsense in Vegas!
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» RE: This is so true- good article
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» to jessebucksc
Posted by: bttl
» RE: This is so true- good article
Posted by: janakiblum
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Posted by: ChristopherLL on Jun 22, 2006 3:29 AM
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» Selfish Asshole-ism is the real problem!!
Posted by: FauxPorteno
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Posted by: socialpsych on Jun 22, 2006 3:55 AM
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Place one thermometer outside a southerly window and another inside a southerly room. In the morning, when the two thermometers read the same temperature, close up the house--close windows and doors and draw shades and curtains. In late afternoon or evening, when the two temperatures are nearly the same again, open the curtains and windows and leave them open all night. Repeat the procedure daily. This prevents the thermal mass of the interior of the house (walls, floors, furniture) from warming up during the day and then releasing heat into the air of rooms at night. During the day, temperatures can be up to 20 degrees cooler inside for most of the day.
It's free, it's completely harmless to the planet, and it empowers us to control our own environments and our own well-being.
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» RE: Low-impact Home Cooling Technique
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» RE: Low-impact Home Cooling Technique
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» RE: Low-impact Home Cooling Technique
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» RE: Low-impact Home Cooling Technique
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» sounds great but...
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» RE: Low-impact Home Cooling Technique
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» RE: Low-impact Home Cooling Technique
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» RE: Low-impact Home Cooling Technique
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Posted by: churchofone on Jun 22, 2006 3:58 AM
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For me, this is a tough issue. Even though I live in the northern tier of states, I am miserable when the heat and humidity kick in. I tend to "hibernate" inside my air-conditioned home and end up with cabin fever. We try to use the a/c only when necessary, but then we're like everyone else, adding to the demand. I open the house at night and close it up in the morning. It doesn't help that we face due west, with little or no shade.
Until a better solution comes along, I'll just keep doing what I can - adding better windows, planting a tree to block the afternoon sun, keeping blinds and shades pulled during the hottest part of the day. Our little house was certainly not built for energy conservation - not in 1969!
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» RE: As things get hotter...
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» RE: As things get hotter...
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Posted by: Samantha Vimes on Jun 22, 2006 4:17 AM
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» RE: Heat-triggered asthma
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» RE: Heat-triggered asthma
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» RE: Heat-triggered asthma
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Posted by: brunowe on Jun 22, 2006 5:42 AM
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Posted by: xbj on Jun 22, 2006 5:50 AM
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What could be a more elegant easier solution to two thorny problems?
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» RE: KILL TWO BIRDS WITH ONE STONE- MOVE TO CANADA
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» RE: KILL TWO BIRDS WITH ONE STONE- MOVE TO CANADA
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» RE: KILL TWO BIRDS WITH ONE STONE- MOVE TO CANADA
Posted by: xbj
» RE: KILL TWO BIRDS WITH ONE STONE- MOVE TO CANADA
Posted by: NYRugby
» RE: KILL TWO BIRDS WITH ONE STONE- MOVE TO CANADA
Posted by: xbj
» RE: KILL TWO BIRDS WITH ONE STONE- MOVE TO CANADA
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» RE: KILL TWO BIRDS WITH ONE STONE- MOVE TO CANADA
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» RE: KILL TWO BIRDS WITH ONE STONE- MOVE TO CANADA
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» How?
Posted by: quirkygamer
» RE: How?
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Posted by: daw13 on Jun 22, 2006 6:02 AM
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» RE: What this means
Posted by: mrcentrist
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Posted by: maxpayne on Jun 22, 2006 6:14 AM
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Posted by: oldsmobile on Jun 22, 2006 6:30 AM
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For instance, district cooling that works the same way as district heating pumps cool water through pipes over a large area, the water is cooled centrally, by building a heath exchanger in the ocean or in a lake. It is possible to cool entire cities this way with very little energy.
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» RE: Other forms of cooling
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» RE: Where has this been done?
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» RE: Where has this been done?
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» RE: Other forms of cooling
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» RE: Other forms of cooling
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» RE: Other forms of cooling
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» RE: Other forms of cooling
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» RE: Other forms of cooling
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» RE: Other forms of cooling
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» RE: Other forms of cooling
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» RE: Other forms of cooling
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» RE: Other forms of cooling
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Posted by: antiapathy on Jun 22, 2006 6:33 AM
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If new home buyers realized this and started demanding passive heating/cooling design then our country could start to reduce energy consumption. Let's stop being apathetic consumers...
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» RE: Passive Cooling (and heating)
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Posted by: susanbm on Jun 22, 2006 6:57 AM
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» RE: why so cold?
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» RE: why so cold?
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» RE: why so cold?
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» RE: why so cold?
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» RE: why so cold?
Posted by: Don
» RE: why so cold?
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» you know who wants it so cold...?
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» RE: why so cold?
Posted by: Juniper
» Americans are fatter
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» RE: why so cold?
Posted by: CollD
» RE: why so cold?
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» RE: why so cold?
Posted by: redbecca
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Posted by: NoPCZone on Jun 22, 2006 7:23 AM
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I dislike A/C except under the most extreme weather, but it is necessary in most modern construction down here. The only way to get a handle on this is more insulation and much more efficient cooling. I doubt we can tear down all of the buildings constructed since the 1950's and replace them with heavily shaded, deep-porched, high-ceilinged ones.
One unmentioned item- in many dry climates Swamp Coolers are used instead of conventional A/C. The primary coolant is water and not a refrigerant gas. Of course these are the very areas where water is at a premium.
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» RE: Great Article, Well Done
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» RE: Great Article, Well Done
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» RE: Great Article, Well Done
Posted by: YogiBear
» More on swamp coolers (and hydronic ceilings)
Posted by: Kelly
» RE: More on swamp coolers (and hydronic ceilings)
Posted by: kazacs
» RE: More on swamp coolers (and hydronic ceilings)
Posted by: Kelly
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Posted by: chaoslegs on Jun 22, 2006 7:27 AM
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I also don't understand why the author thinks that people can't use PC or large TVs (32 inch in my house) when it is hot without AC. I do it all the time.
In terms of low cost approaches, I agree with an earlier poster about opening rooms at night. I go for the low cost approach in my bedroom and upstairs by using window fans to draw in cooler air that then gets circulated by ceiling fans.
I am also lucky to have an east facing 3 season porch for those really hot days. I read, listen to the radio and sweat.
The biggest loss was a huge tree, at least 50 feet tall, on the southwest corner of my property, this has cost me late day shade from the sun.
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» RE: What about the heat that A/C creates
Posted by: kateoneill
» RE: What about the heat that A/C creates
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» RE: What about the heat that A/C creates
Posted by: YogiBear
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Posted by: kateoneill on Jun 22, 2006 8:09 AM
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Southerners use a lot more power for all appliances, whatever the season. Of course, northern households consume more fossil fuel for heat, but in the dead of winter, heating cannot be dispensed with.
I think it's a little unfair for the author to characterize heat as necessary in the North yet air conditioning as frivolous in the South. Those weren't Mr. Cox's words exactly, but it's how they came across to me.
No argument from me: having heat in severe winter cold is important. This past winter, my husband and I lived almost completely without heat (it's a long story, but trust me: it wasn't our first choice to do so), and it was really unpleasant, to say the least. We spent our days in coats and wrapped up in blankets, and still got very little work done from the distraction of being so uncomfortable.
So yes, heat=good. It keeps people comfortable and able to be productive, and helps prevent some illnesses and even death in the elderly.
I think some form of cooling in severe summer heat is equally important. It's just unfortunate that air conditioning, the most prevalent form of cooling, has so many detrimental qualities.
We use a variety of alternate forms of cooling our home and ourselves so that we can leave air conditioning as a last resort (and we do live in the South). But after a series of hot days with only little relief during the night, it becomes difficult to even think, and we both typically work from home.
I don't know. Maybe we're too spoiled by the culture in which we were raised. But although I now know I can survive in a colder house in the winter than I would have thought, I don't want to repeat that heat-less winter. Similarly, in the summer, we are always conscious of the amount of energy we consume when we run the AC, but we can only let it get so hot inside before we feel the need to turn it on.
The house should be somewhat cool in the winter and somewhat warm in the summer. And really, if every household and building were heated and cooled with that same idea of in mind, I don't think it would be such a big issue.
But don't get me wrong -- I'm not entirely defensive about this. I'm listening to the message in this article and in the comments, and my husband and I will be discussing ways we can improve our energy consumption footprint. I hope everyone else does, too.
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» RE: I agree, and am paying attention, but...
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» RE: I agree, and am paying attention, but...
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» RE: I agree, and am paying attention, but...
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» RE: I agree, and am paying attention, but...
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Posted by: plantland on Jun 22, 2006 8:25 AM
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I am bummed that we replaced half of a central air systerm, the air handler in the attic, last summer without realizing thatit would not be compatible with the far more energy efficient compressors now coming out. Our air handler uses R22, the bad gas, and will not be compatible with the new ones out that use "Puron", or R410, which doesn't deplete the ozone layer. We will either need to replace the $3,000 air handler we just put in, or have to go with the bad old kind our new ,but being phased out, air handler requires.
So think ahead, read up, and know what you want before something breaks and you are too raggged to look into things!
WWW.consumerreportsonline.org has free articles on air.
States need laws that require leaks be fixed, and not allowing people to just keep adding freon without making repairs.Requiring checks for leaks could be more valuable than just requiring better refrigerants in new systems.
My air conditioning company said that it will not keep adding freon when the householder has refused to fix a leak, but, currently, it is up to the householder. As fly by night underground home repair services abound, we need to wonder how much additional freon is released. There is worse damage than just not paying taxes.
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» RE: eplacing equipment? New non-ozone depleting refrigerant available
Posted by: JoelRea
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Posted by: pfv on Jun 22, 2006 8:59 AM
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» RE: Move out of the desert!
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» RE: Move out of the desert!
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» RE: Move out of the desert!
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» RE: Move out of the desert!
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» RE: Move out of the desert!
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» RE: Move out of the desert!
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» RE: Move out of the desert!
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» RE: Arabian desert
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» RE: Move out of the desert!
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» RE: Move out of the desert!
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» RE: Move out of the desert!
Posted by: tanstaafl28
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Posted by: Iconoclast421 on Jun 22, 2006 9:04 AM
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Posted by: RVGIV on Jun 22, 2006 9:13 AM
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I keep my home at a comfy 68 degrees in the summer, and 65-68 degrees in the winter. It balances out. My Wife has severe asthma and has had life threatening episodes brought on by Cincinnati summers. The summers here are miserable, 95-100 degree heat and unbearable humidity (98 degrees today). AC is as necessary in the summers here as heat is in the winter. My company thankfully keeps the office at 72, and our 100,000 SF warehouse, filled with perishable beer & wine, is kept at 67 year round.
BTW, how much electricity does all of those fans that you cheapskates are running consume?
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» RE: People that 'hate air conditioning' are cheapskates
Posted by: daniel1982
» RE: People that 'hate air conditioning' are cheapskates
Posted by: RVGIV
» RE: People that 'hate air conditioning' are cheapskates
Posted by: nunyabinis
» RE: People that 'hate air conditioning' are cheapskates
Posted by: bttl
» RE: People that 'hate air conditioning' are cheapskates
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» RE: People that 'hate air conditioning' are cheapskates
Posted by: 9wicket
» RE: People that 'hate air conditioning' are cheapskates
Posted by: RVGIV
» RE: People that 'hate air conditioning' are cheapskates
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» RE: People that 'hate air conditioning' are cheapskates
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» RE: People that 'hate air conditioning' are cheapskates
Posted by: Elmowilcox
» RE: People that 'hate air conditioning' are cheapskates
Posted by: RVGIV
» RE: People that 'hate air conditioning' are cheapskates
Posted by: tclaverdure
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Posted by: beltane on Jun 22, 2006 9:16 AM
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But something even more important has been lost to the air conditioning revolution, and that is our sense of community. My old pre A/C house, situated in an old pre A/C neighborhood, has a porch. It has beautiful old pecan trees around it for shade. The neighborhood has sidewalks. People used to use those sidewalks to walk to the store, the park, the library, passing residents fanning themsleves on their porches, stopping to chat just so they could enjoy the respite of a shady spot.
Newer, post A/C neighborhoods in my town are devoid of porches and sidewalks. Each resident lives in their own tightly sealed bubble of privacy, emerging just long enough to scurry to their tightly sealed mobile bubble of privacy which they then navigate to yet another tightly sealed bubble, usually of commerce. There is no chance to build community when each person is so preoccupied with their separate concerns (most of which seem to revolve around earning enough money to pay for all these bubbles!)
I truly believe that this is why Texas has changed in the past 50 years from a sparsely populated hell-hole (environmentally speaking) to a densely populated hell-hole (socially speaking).
Furthermore, the air-conditioning of Texas allowed rich snot nosed Yankee preppies to move here and live comfortably while they stole our oil, and to bring their idiot sons with them so they could fulfil their dumb-ass little boy cowboy fantasies. But I'll leave discussion of the Bush family to a later time.
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» RE: A/C kills community
Posted by: socialpsych
» RE: A/C kills community
Posted by: kateoneill
» How can that be??????
Posted by: nunyabinis
» RE: How can that be??????
Posted by: mylungsarempty
» RE: A/C kills community
Posted by: bttl
» RE: A/C kills community
Posted by: wereallfukked
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Posted by: RVGIV on Jun 22, 2006 9:22 AM
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Air conditioning places more load on the engine, which can affect fuel economy. But opening the windows at highway speeds can affect fuel economy even more by disrupting the vehicle's aerodynamics. ..In our tests we found that using air conditioning had a negligible effect on fuel consumption. While driving at 65 mph gas mileage was reduced in both vehicles by about 1 mpg. The effect of opening the windows at 65 mph was about the same-it might make more of a difference if you drive faster. Because air conditioning can help keep you comfortable and alert and because most modern cars use it to keep windows defrosted, we suggest that the small trade-off in fuel economy for increased safety is worthwhile."
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» RE: From Consumer reports:
Posted by: YogiBear
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Posted by: notrab68 on Jun 22, 2006 9:23 AM
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!!!!!
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Posted by: rainking on Jun 22, 2006 10:13 AM
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Posted by: grolan on Jun 22, 2006 10:17 AM
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How about a little shade? Look at any housing development - especially apartments, condos and townhouses, but family homes too. What's the first thing the developer does? Cut down every tree. Sure, it's easier and cheaper for the builder, but it leaves the buildings baking in the sun. In the summer, the a/c runs 24/7 in my apt, because I'm on the top floor on the west side - without a/c it would be 100 degrees inside. But if there were some shade, it would have to run far less. We've got to get past this approach of devastating an area before building on it - leave some damn trees standing!
People can use external sunshades too. I have one covering the west window (on the outside) - a thin, translucent but tough material that blocks 100% of UV and 60% or so of all light. It keeps the apt 10 degrees cooler just doing that, as it prevents sunlight from ever passing through the window and causing greenhouse warming inside the apt. (The company is
"Coolaroo", out of Australia. The sunshades are tough, attractive and cheap).
Buildings should be built with greenspace roofs, that help control water runoff and keep the building cooler too. Certainly not black tar roofs like so many apt buildings - they just soak up the heat. How much nicer to have a roof garden one could sit in to enjoy the breeze.
But, bottom line, a/c is not going away and will in fact be used more. The crux of all these problems, the root, is our dependence on fossil fuels, and that is what has to be attacked. A major national effort - indeed, a global effort - a Marshall Plan for energy is what's needed. Bush's greatest failure (and there are many) is not fumbling the war on terror, or Iraq, or tax cuts for the rich, or environmental abuses or any of his general incompetency - it's that as an oilman, he has failed to lead the country to an alternative energy future. We need to get off oil and on to nonpolluting alternatives. That's the only real solution, and until that happens, the problem will only get worse, no matter how much tinkering and trimming around the edges we do. And, sorry to say, unless someone comes up with a hydrogen technology that works or something else radically new, and in a big hurry, the solution has to include nuclear. Sure, nuke waste is dangerous and persistant, but it can be contained, and it does not f* up the climate. It's a case of choosing between the lesser of evils - deal with nuke waste, or stew in an overheating world. Time is very short, and the biosphere simply cannot stand much more. I fear it is already too late.
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» Don't forget the whole house attic fans!
Posted by: Kelly
» RE: Don't forget the whole house attic fans!
Posted by: RVGIV
» RE: Don't forget the whole house attic fans!
Posted by: Kelly
» RE: A/C Not Going Away
Posted by: mylungsarempty
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Posted by: underledge on Jun 22, 2006 10:57 AM
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Posted by: rainking on Jun 22, 2006 11:01 AM
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Posted by: Don on Jun 22, 2006 11:10 AM
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So ceiling fans have become popular once again, in the home as well as in public buildings. But to-day's ceiling fans are mostly cheaply made imports with anemic motors and a 5-year life expectancy. What few of those old fans with the real cast-iron last-a-lifetime motors that survived in good working condition, go for a mint on the "collectables" market.
Think of all the energy that would have been saved if public buildings had simply kept their ceiling fans when a/c was installed. Plus the a/c units would have lasted longer due to less wear and tear, and those beautiful old cast-iron motors would still be spinning away.
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Posted by: velvel of atlanta on Jun 22, 2006 11:17 AM
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» RE: why not a/c?
Posted by: gar
» RE: why not a/c?
Posted by: velvel of atlanta
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Posted by: kryptx on Jun 22, 2006 11:18 AM
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We can reduce A/C usage by emphasizing proper energy-efficient building techniques such as shade placement, roof overhangs, light-colored (or energy-producing) roof materials, and proper insulation including double- and triple-paned windows and meticulous insulation of exterior walls. Few consumers should resist these changes since they will increase property value and reduce heating and cooling bills... we just need to get them out there.
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» Don't have to just look at buildings in this
Posted by: Elmowilcox
» RE: Productivity
Posted by: mylungsarempty
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Posted by: Gisele on Jun 22, 2006 11:21 AM
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I have fans strategically placed around my home, and will wet a towel with cold water and place them over the fan to cool the area. I do care about the ecological environment I live in, but that isn't my reason for not using this "wonder" of comfort. I used to live for air conditioned spaces, my home was kept at a constant 68 degrees year round. Over time I found that I just couldn't function when it became "smokin' hot" outside, and I couldn't get warm when it hit 20 below. It seemed my body had lost a natural ability to regulate it's own temperature, and deal with temperature extremes.
So...I bit the bullet. Shut the AC down. I decided to try living without it to see if it made a difference. I admit...I went through hell for about 2 years...and suddenly things seemed to right themselves. I found I was drinking more water because of natural thirst (something I just didn't do before), and I wasn't having to take meds for one sinus infection after the other. I wasn't lethargic due to heat, nor was I having nasty allergy related headaches anymore.
Do I miss it? On very rare occasions I do...but I wouldn't go back to it again. I'm healthier now than I've been since I shut it off 10 years ago. The money saved for the twice yearly cleanings comes in handy too...I just saw the niftiest pair of heels yesterday...
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» RE: I prefer not to use it...
Posted by: RVGIV
» RE: I prefer not to use it...
Posted by: socialpsych
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Posted by: velvel of atlanta on Jun 22, 2006 11:23 AM
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Outlaw air conditioning in Washington DeeCee governmental buildings except for the White House and National Archives and maybe Smithsonian. That way the Congress would go home on Memorial Day and not return until Columbus Day. Surely they could do this if they used web communications and we could save money for more important purposes...like meeting with constituents in public places instead of hiding from all but their moneybags?
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Posted by: rainking on Jun 22, 2006 11:46 AM
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» RE: more a/c
Posted by: marcinde
» RE: more a/c
Posted by: ariessag
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Posted by: Charaud on Jun 22, 2006 11:55 AM
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I was a Home Builder for 45 years. For the last twenty years my company was deeply involved by energy saving devices and found that there was an insurmountable resistance on the part of the price conscious home buyer. We provided alternate siting for homes which we offered plus a varity of energy reducing materials and methods of construction. Far from being forced into purchasing cheaper homes buyers actually refused to spend the extra money which the enrgy saving systems cost. We had a list of 12-15 systems which could save energy alongwith the associated costs of such with no added overhead or profit to my company. Time and time again people would hear how much could be saved by a realtively small initial expense but still refused to spend the extra dollars. We attempted to install some systems but quickly found that we couldn't recover the cost associated with them whem other homes were offered at a cheaper price without them.
The probleem lay not with the consciencious builder but with the price sensitive buyer.
People's habits also figured into the waste constantly referred to. People would insist upon leaving their air conditioning off during the heat of the day and then turning it on at the end of the day expecting that the house would quickly become comfortable. They refused to accept the fact that this was false economy because it takes 24 hours more or less to condition the air in a house and remove heat and moisture from carpets and furniture. Thus every day they were supporting an inefficient system of conditioning the air in their homes.
As for car air conditioning , on hot days it is almost intolerable to drive in a car which is hot and dirty from the heat and road debris and gas emissions coming through open windows not to even speak abour the mental and physical condition of the automobile operator. Incidentally I have tested the gas mileage of my car both with and without Air Conditioning and have not noticed a discernable difference.
Of course I do drive a hybrid vehicle which may not have as much differential as a high horsepower auto does. Say that might be an alternative to consider!!!!!!!!
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» Trees provide cool air
Posted by: YogiBear
» RE: Trees provide cool air
Posted by: BlueTigress
» RE: Charley Barcelo
Posted by: Paul525
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Posted by: nunyabinis on Jun 22, 2006 1:23 PM
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You Libs keep getting farther and farther out in left field. Pretty soon you'll be out in the parking lot with the chicken wing bones and the spent peanut hulls. You are a WACKY lot.
Question for you:
How's that been working for you at the ballot box?
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» RE: You Libs crack me up....
Posted by: lucas
» RE: You Libs crack me up....
Posted by: lucas
» RE: You Libs crack me up....
Posted by: 1984NOW!!!
» RE: You Libs crack me up....
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» RE: You Libs crack me up....
Posted by: 1984NOW!!!
» RE: You Libs crack me up....
Posted by: nunyabinis
» I agree but you still suck
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» RE: I agree but you still suck
Posted by: nunyabinis
» His busines, our atmosphere
Posted by: M.
» RE: You Libs crack me up....
Posted by: kittynboi
» RE: You Libs crack me up....
Posted by: nunyabinis
» you both need to grow up
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» RE: You Libs crack me up....
Posted by: 1984NOW!!!
» RE: You Libs crack me up....
Posted by: heartworker
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Posted by: YogiBear on Jun 22, 2006 2:45 PM
Current rating: 3 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
I mean, I drive an SUV, I live in the south and run my a/c, my house is a leaky sieve, and it is far to big for my family size. But I haven't had any kids, so I'm probably in the black when compared to the rest ya.
Kidding aside, I wish people wouldn't freak out about articles like this. The author isn't telling us to turn off, just to cool our heels a bit, so to speak. Progressives have been sounding the warning for many years now and their early comments about recycling paper and bottles and overfishing and rainforest conservation got just as much flak as their more recent efforts have. But our species is better off for their efforts, isn't it?
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Posted by: YogiBear on Jun 22, 2006 2:47 PM
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Temp: 95°F
Feels Like: 105°F
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Posted by: M. on Jun 22, 2006 5:26 PM
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Together with the automobile and industrial fossil fuel based agriculture and food distribution systems, AC has made modern high energy society....
Some day it's all gonna wash away. To some extent we can rejoice in the prospect... but the pain and suffering is going to be immense. If you think about peak oil, the rising price of energy and how it will wash away the foundations of American economic life, you can't exactly be happy.
As life in the former slave states gets harder, it is the poor who will suffer the most.
Yes, sure, it will be good to see the unreasonable assumptions of high energy society (cars, nitrogen fertilizers, AC) get washed away... unaffordable luxuries. There is pleasure to take in watching that spectacle. And yet there is pain in it too.
It's really hard to know whether to feel justified and satisfied as the predictions of environmental/economic tragedy are realized... or whether to feel sympathy for those who believed that consuming more resources than the rest of the world was their birthright.
Were they deluded? Or knowing arrogant participants in their own delusional belief system.
As Jim Kunstler argues in The Long Emergency, the future of great swathes of America in the post peak oil era is going to be very very hard.
Residents of idylic little towns in upstate New York are hardly going to be spared the effects of the collapse.
Will it come quickly, or slowly? So many questions.
But AC... man that's a big one, and its going to get awfully expensive soon.... and unaffordable one day.
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» good comment
Posted by: Michelle
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Posted by: chief of okeefe on Jun 22, 2006 5:27 PM
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But if you start talking about taking away the AC you are just going to get run over. Try an issue where you have a prayer buddy!!
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» ...don't worry, no one will "take it away" from you...you'll take it away from yourself
Posted by: M.
» RE: Search for modest improvements and bag the radical crap
Posted by: tbell
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Posted by: acidrain69 on Jun 22, 2006 7:39 PM
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First of all, that statement is incorrect. There is no "outrunning" the laws of physics. If you think you have out run them, then you didn't have the right law to begin with. You are not outrunning TD by putting heat into the outside. The heat escapes the outside coils by the same principle that it escapes your home into the cold coils inside. Heat moves to equalize itself, as noted in the article.
Second, you mention that AC is not a necessity. I beg to differ. I live in florida. 90-100 degree summers are not survivable for a lot of people. Say goodbye to your retired parents and grandparents and anyone with a heart condition if AC leaves tomorrow; they won't survive it.
AC is no less important than heat is to the north. I could just as easily tell you to "wear more jackets and sweaters in the winter". 90-100 degrees is not the same thing in Florida as it is in Arizona or California. I have been to both. The humidity makes it difficult to breathe down here. Texas is more like Florida, but still not as bad (depending on where you are, state is too big anyway).
But I commend you for noting the business culture in all this. We do push ourselves harder than any other nation (in business at least, not in school). Businesses have been trying to suppress wages and rights since the first worker picked up a rock and started banging on something and getting paid for it. AC is certainly tied to productivity. And we are a productivity driven society. We are no longer interested in doing something well. We are interested in expansion only, and that is not sustainable.
Put you'll take my AC when you pry it from my cold, dead fingers. Although we could do with more reasonable temps. I freeze to death in the middle of summer because I do IT and I'm near the AC unit that shares the server room.
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» RE: It IS mandatory in florida
Posted by: tscox
» Snowbirds
Posted by: BlueTigress
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Posted by: TagsNOLA on Jun 22, 2006 9:13 PM
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Liberals who disdain such advances in science and technology are merely dupes of the feudalists who resent the fact that we ever did away with such institutions as serfdom and slavery. They are luddites at heart who despise the rise of a middle class labor force. The anti-technological bias in mass media and in our institutions of higher learning comes from this neo-feudalist crowd and is swallowed hook line and sinker by well intentioned but gullible liberal tree-hugger types. But the fact is, deep in his soul, Al Gore and his ilk are feudalists, bound and determined to turn back the clock. Without advanced technologies, there can be no such thing as a middle class. Rest assured, when Jimmy Carter coined his rubric of "lowered expectations," he wasn't including himself. And neither is Al Gore or others of his ilk.
TagsNOLA
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» RE: Build Nukes
Posted by: TroyHelming
» RE: Build Nukes
Posted by: Artaraxl
» RE: Build Nukes
Posted by: JoelRea
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Posted by: AtmeratisX on Jun 22, 2006 9:14 PM
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I grew up in Galveston, TX in the 1950's. My Grandmother's house in which we lived was built in the 1890's and had huge floor-to-ceiling windows that allowed the almost constant southeast breeze from the Gulf to flow throughout the house. With the 13ft. ceilings and big ceiling fans, there was no need (or so we thought) for air conditioning. I remember going downtown in the summer when big stores like Sears and Penney's had huge A/C units that would blow cool air out to the sidewalk. When my parents bought a newer house, we had an attic fan that pulled air in through open windows and exhausted it out through the attic vents. Even the warmest summer nights were cool enough to sleep comfortably. My parents bought their first A/C unit in 1962. It was one of those 300lb monstrosities that hung half-in and half-out of the window of their bedroom.
My first experience with 24/7 A/C was in the Navy. I was on a new construction ship that was completely air conditioned. Four years of that and I was hooked. When I returned to Texas there was no way I was going to live without A/C.
I live in East Texas now. July, August, and September are the real summer months here, with both temperature and humidity increasing to unbearable levels. So now its programmable thermostats, ceiling fans, tinted double-pane windows, insulating drapes, etc.
So each time I brave the elements traversing between my artificially cooled office, my car, and my home, I think to myself, "Yep, us Texans can really take that heat!"
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Posted by: Hinnus_Asinus on Jun 22, 2006 11:05 PM
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I already had ceiling fans and an attic fan. I ran them all night with the windows open and then closed up the house tight before going to work. The earlier poster described the "two thermometer method" and mine was pretty much the same plan but without the thermometers, just "open at night, closed while at work." I put a window fan in the living room and the bedroom. On the really hot days, when I wanted to watch TV on a weekend afternoon, I used the old "put the fan behind the 50 lb. block of ice in a metal tray" trick. All in all, from May to late September, I only had about a dozen "bad" days. Granted, I had A/C at work but it was still plenty hot outside when I'd get home.
My co-workers, upon hearing my plight, felt so bad for me but by the end of the summer felt that I was psychotic because I was saying, "It's not so bad, really...actually it's been good because I forgot what I had missed." That summer brought a lot of good sensory input that I had missed for years...the cool refreshment of a cold drink on a muggy afternoon...the wonderful leisure of sitting on the porch...the tepid comfort of lounging in a tub of leukwarm water and letting the ceiling fan blow on wet skin after returning to the living room...the lazy somnolent feeling of being "just a little too warm but not terribly warm." Suddenly, the muggy 100% humidity Missouri summers were not nearly as daunting as I'd let them be for many years.
My electric bill in my little house, normally $120 in July/August, went down to $80--another reward. I lost 15 lbs., probably because my metabolism was a little more active (I always say "sweating a little was good for me) and my appetite was less in the heat.
Since then, I have returned to A/C but only in a limited sense. I still open the house at night and only run the A/C part time now, on the hottest days, and the thermostat on the A/C is set for 80 when I do run it. I simply realized I liked the senses and sounds of a hot night without A/C more than I realized. It's not a "whacko" thing, it's a lifestyle choice that brought back some simple pleasures.
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Posted by: nunyabinis on Jun 23, 2006 5:39 AM
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Tree Huggers have been successful at keeping any new nuclear power plants from going online since the 70's. This caused power companies to use fossil fuel sources to power their new plants.
Well, now the enviros want us to turn off the AC. That ain't gonna happen. The majority of our electricity could have been coming from nuclear power plants by now. The "energy crisis" in the early 70's should have GUARANTEED that we start building nukes like there was no tomorrow. Over 70 percent of France's electric power comes for nuclear NOW. By God, if the French can do it, we can. A nuclear power plant WILL be coming to a town near you. It's only a matter of time. Get used to the idea.
The citizens of this country are going to blame the far left radicals if their standard of living begins to fall and that will be reflected at the ballot box. Remember Carter's "maliase" speech? There's gonna be some malaise alright. We need to produce MORE power, NOT less. Unfortunately, it seems that the only way to get anything done in this country these days is to wait until a crisis comes along that FORCES us to do what we should have been doing for decades. Not to worry, ADULTS will step up to the plate and we'll be building Nukes, drilling in ANWAR and drilling off the gulf coast shelf.
FYI, where I live, it was 81 degrees with 100% humidity when I went outside at 6:00 this morning. I ain't gonna turn off my AC during July, August and September. I don't care how much it costs. If I've got to pick up cans beside the road to pay for it, so be it.
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» nunyabinis doesn't know this
Posted by: Michael Robin
» RE: nunyabinis doesn't know this (sources?)
Posted by: Artaraxl
» hmm.
Posted by: Coleman
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Posted by: bookwoman on Jun 23, 2006 6:03 AM
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We speak about the enormous debt our government is creating and the impact on our children and grandchildren. However, if there is no liveable earth, the amount of the debt will be moot.
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Posted by: TroyHelming on Jun 23, 2006 7:13 AM
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Posted by: M. on Jun 23, 2006 7:35 AM
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Oh dear, you are desperate aren't you?
There is what there is, and when it is gone it's gone, and the price starts climbing.
You'll be surprised to learn that even a massive nuclear powered system would only have enough uranium for about 50 to 100 years of operation. Good enough for you? Maybe, but hardly a "long term" solution. Or is the limited supply of uranium and it's toxicity a liberal plot too?
I agree with you however that your desperation will lead to energy production.... mostly coal.... some nuclear.
The coal will speed the global warming process, requiring more AC...
The nuclear planets will create an insoluable waste problem... but that will be future generations' problem.
Your post points to the central problem. People will do what they need to survive today, to get through THIS heat wave, and the future be damned. ... if the electrical grid can supply them.
That's a human propopensity isn't it? Can anyone blame them? Should anyone try to stop them? Don't try to stop me! Don't try to stop you!
But just know that every solution out there has costs and the primary cost, from coal burning, is going to make the problem even worse, in a vicious cycle that is likely to extinguish life on this planet.
Those with the means (and you plan to be one of them don't you?) will pay whatever it takes to live. Those without the means? Well we don't really care about them do we?
In the mean time live well and party on, cause the temperature is rising.
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» response to nunyabinis above
Posted by: M.
» RE: oh you poor deluded fool
Posted by: nunyabinis
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Posted by: Old Skeptic on Jun 23, 2006 9:41 AM
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Few question the need for at least moderate heat during winters, but believe me, excessive heat can be just as life-threatening as excessive cold. The oldest houses, with high ceilings, big windows, etc., may have helped, but I'm sure that my ancestors must have suffered a lot during summer.
When the weather is very dry, as it so often is in western Texas, it is possible to use "swamp coolers" which use less electricity, but also keep the air inside fairly humid, which can cause problems in itself.
To me, the question whether A/C is necessary or not is moot. The old houses with the high ceilings, etc., are going, if not gone, and in today's crime-ridden society, it would be extremely unwise to leave one's windows open all night while one slept!
I see no real alternative to A/C as long as I live in a semi-arid, hot area. Using ceiling fans and floor fans to circulate the cooled air from my window units takes energy too, but it keeps my house within tolerable limits.
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» RE: Yes, A/C uses energy, but....
Posted by: CollD
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Posted by: gerdhansel on Jun 23, 2006 10:00 AM
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These buildings were actually surplus World War 2 barracks converted into cheapo tenements for poor, young married students.
We had a three-year-old boy, the heat and humidity were unbearable and my wife was pregnant with our second son. The summers of 1979 and 1980 were the most miserable of my entire life.
I knew a lot of young Yuppie couples in the neighborhood. Most of my neighbors were law students, and all of them were going to work for the ACLU someday. Yeah, right. They gloried in the collection of plywood huts that passed for family housing.
When the University decided to replace the old barracks with air-conditioned, modular housing they organized protests and made signs. But they had the cheapest housing available in Austin, and naturally they didn't want to give it up.
Not me. We moved into the air-conditioned Colorado Married Student Housing units further up Fifth Street, and life suddenly became bearable again. The plywood shacks of Brackenridge were sold to the partying university in San Marcos.
I'm in my 50s now and I live in the much-preferable climate of northwest Nevada. Here air conditioning is a luxury that many are able to go without. I'm one of them. Single-digit humidity and moderate temperatures are a marvel.
But anybody who thinks going without air conditioning in Austin, Texas, is not one hell of a sacrifice is out of their gourd. They were idiots back then, and they're still idiots today. They can keep their hot, sweaty climate, and sweat buckets until their Birkenstocks rot and their graying ponytails fall off.
I refuse to even visit my relatives in Texas during the summer.
When all the fossil fuels are gone, mankind will revert to his old nomadic ways. If it's too hot, you go where it's cooler. If it's too cold you go where it's warmer. The elderly snowbirds in the Airstreams and Winnebagos already have that figured out.
But don't worry about over-population getting in the way of our new nomadic lifestyle. After the wars for the diminishing resources are over, there'll be a hell of a lot fewer of us left in this best of all possible worlds to enjoy the spoils.
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» RE: austin without AC is ridiculous
Posted by: nunyabinis
» RE: austin without AC is ridiculous
Posted by: cyberfactotum
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Posted by: froggeymonkey on Jun 23, 2006 11:08 AM
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» RE: SWAMP COOLERS? think about the water
Posted by: Michelle
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Posted by: monkeywrench on Jun 23, 2006 11:26 AM
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My partial answer, here in Southern California, where the night air cools off, is to use a whole-house fan. It evacuates warm house air into the attic and out the gable vents, simutaneously cooling the attic and, through open windows, pulling in cool outside evening air – at less than 1/10th the energy of running our central air conditioning. Works for us...natural air conditioning
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Posted by: nunyabinis on Jun 23, 2006 11:51 AM
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Posted by: tdicks on Jun 23, 2006 4:22 PM
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http://illdill.org
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Posted by: quirkygamer on Jun 23, 2006 5:35 PM
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My escape? Seattle, Washington. Rarely, if ever, gets hot enough to warrant air conditioning, which most buildings lack, anyway.
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Posted by: ciccio on Jun 24, 2006 10:05 AM
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never been in Toronto when it hits 95 degrees. Where Toronto differs from most US cities is that the city has done
something about the high energy usage of heating and a/c.
I suggest you google Enwave, this central cooling project is
expected to save 61MW electricity when it hits full capacity.
At the moment it is running at about 25MW
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Posted by: Brad Feldhaus on Jun 25, 2006 12:45 AM
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According to the author, we should give up our A/C, and experience survival of the fittest.
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» RE: A/C in Texas
Posted by: Spherehead
» RE: A/C in Texas
Posted by: CollD
» RE: A/C in Texas
Posted by: cindylouwho
» RE: A/C in Texas
Posted by: tanstaafl28
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Posted by: heartworker on Jun 25, 2006 6:17 PM
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There are areas in the United States where people are found dead in their apartments and homes from heat exposure. Add to that increasing global temperatures, and the amount of suffering is heightened. It would seem prudent to design an innovative air conditioning system which is more environmentally friendly, and more energetically efficient--even solar powered.
The comment that Americans have become less tolerant of ranges of heat and humidity intrigues me. As a child, I remember having nausea, diarrhea, and heat stroke from the hot, humid days, and I dreaded the approach of summer. I have vivid memories of my mother doing housework, laundry, and ironing in the miserable heat. We weren't any more tolerant of the heat...there just wasn't any escaping it.
How about thinking of ways to improve the technology, and make buildings more well-insulated? Has anyone got any other ideas?
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Posted by: tanstaafl28 on Jun 28, 2006 8:12 AM
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Do we need to find alternative means of electricity generation? YES!
Do we need to keep corporations and private operators from doing anything they please with our environment? YES!
Should we take steps to minimize, streamline, and curtail our consumption? YES!
Do we need to get "Holier than thou" about Air Conditioning? NO!
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Posted by: Zarquan on Jun 29, 2006 7:55 AM
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Posted by: PennyWiseLBFoolish on Jul 8, 2006 9:27 PM
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Posted by: JoelRea on Jul 9, 2006 7:06 PM
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The simple fact is, both are going away, and relatively soon. We’re running out of affordable energy, at the worst possible time (with global population at record levels, and with India and China now trying to join the First World and saying, “Hey, it’s our turn now! We want the benefits of massive petroleum consumption, too!”). And when it’s gone, it won’t just mean the end of A/C and driving SUVs around. It’ll mean going back to burning wood (with all the environmental problems that entails) for heating. It’ll mean going back to horse-drawn carriages and horseback riding for transportation. But it means far more than that.
People just don’t get it: petroleum is far more than just fuel. It’s also lubricants (machine oil), needed to keep most machines running regardless of what powers them. Even bicycles need the occasional squirt of oil along the chain and hubs.
It’s plastics, the only thing that machines can be made of that don’t require machine-oil lubricants, and which are used for so much in our society. Imagine giving up everything made of plastic of any kind.
It’s pharmaceuticals, including chemotherapy and other drugs that people depend on for their lives, and will depend on even more as the environmental devastation wreaked by fossil fuels and other aspects of civilization (such as ozone depletion) increases cancer rates further.
Most importantly of all, it’s the Green Revolution pesticides and fertilizers that have multiplied the crop yields of the available arable land of the Earth by roughly a dozenfold over traditional and organic methods, and which are the one and only reason that we’re able to even try to feed the 6½ billion people on the planet now, or the 7+ billion expected in a few years just as the endless emergency of peak oil hits in earnest. Without those, we can’t have that many people on the planet, period. We can’t feed seven billion. Nor six. Nor five. Nor four. Nor three. We may be able to feed two billion, if we tear down much of civilization and devote more land area to farming. One billion is more like it.
These are just a few of the petrochemicals that our civilization depends on. The thing is, you can’t make any of those things from solar power. Nor wind power. Nor water power. Nor geothermal power. Nor hydrogen fuel cells (note: even though we do have plenty of hydrogen in the universe, fuel cells also require platinum for their grids, and the whole Earth has about enough platinum, assuming we could devote every atom of it to this sole purpose, to power every American vehicle on the roads today: but only for one year, when the grids would wear out. Then no more platinum, and no more fuel cells. Ever. There’s a reason that platinum has long been more valuable than gold). Nor even nuclear power (fission nor fusion, even if the latter were feasible, which hasn’t yet been demonstrated). Some, but not all, may be able to be made from biodiesel or similar processes such as thermal depolymerization, but not nearly enough.
(Continued in first Reply)
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» RE: Stan Cox, "heating is indispensible" but A/C isn't!?
Posted by: JoelRea
» RE: Stan Cox, "heating is indispensible" but A/C isn't!?
Posted by: JoelRea
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Posted by: sschoeppey on Jul 19, 2006 4:39 PM
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Posted by: RVGIV on Jul 20, 2006 1:38 PM
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Why don't you give up your fridge since the sky is falling? Your body can learn to handle slightly higher bacteria levels in food, and you can do your shopping everyday instead of weekly, like they do in the rest of the world. You better get used to it because when the big energy crash comes you are going to lose it anyway. Along with your stove and of course your energy wasting computers.
Come on folks, it's put up or shut up time.
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Posted by: pom on Aug 25, 2006 10:19 AM
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Posted by: bttl on Jun 22, 2006 3:03 AM
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AC is not sustainable. The author makes great points. The waste of fuel to provide it and the impact of that fuel use is just insane. We do need to get back to our roots. Why not design homes and businesses to take advantage of natural cooling? Just planting deciduous trees in the correct place can cool a building. So can attic fans(solar), ceiling fans, cross ventilation, and...... just a simple overhang of the roof. A properly designed roof overhang can allow the low winter sun into the building helping to heat it by solar gain and keep the high summer sun out, keeping the building cool. It works quite well- the coolest spot in my house in the summer is the south facing rooms protected by the roof overhang.
I was in a store the other day which had their AC on but it wasn't working well- the place was hot and humid but they refused to shut the blasted beast off and just open the windows and doors.
I'm all for siestas too- porches, hammocks under trees, lemonade- sounds better than an air conditioned office to me....
We need to face the fact that much of what we've done the past 50 years or so just isn't working or sustainable. Back to the drawing board.....
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» the blueprint already exists: life in the past
Posted by: thistleblower
» Cutting down trees
Posted by: kateoneill
» Native Plants Rule
Posted by: Artkansas
» RE: Native Plants Rule
Posted by: kateoneill
» RE: the blueprint already exists: life in the past
Posted by: daniel1982
» RE: the blueprint already exists: life in the past
Posted by: andrewgirma
» Try selling that nonsense in Vegas!
Posted by: tanstaafl28
» It works in Austin
Posted by: cyberfactotum
» RE: It works in Austin
Posted by: Jaja56
» RE: It works in Austin
Posted by: cyberfactotum
» RE: It works in Austin
Posted by: Jaja56
» RE: Try selling that nonsense in Vegas!
Posted by: Robert Stevens
» RE: Try selling that nonsense in Vegas!
Posted by: hansennancykay
» RE: Try selling that nonsense in Vegas!
Posted by: ChristopherLL
» RE: Try selling that nonsense in Vegas!
Posted by: tanstaafl28
» RE: Try selling that nonsense in Vegas!
Posted by: tanstaafl28
» RE: Try selling that nonsense in Vegas!
Posted by: gar
» Vegas is a mirage.
Posted by: Artkansas
» RE: Vegas is a mirage.
Posted by: tanstaafl28
» RE: Try selling that nonsense in Vegas!
Posted by: sidewinder
» RE: Try selling that nonsense in Vegas!
Posted by: tanstaafl28
» RE: Try selling that nonsense in Vegas!
Posted by: bttl
» RE: Try selling that nonsense in Vegas!
Posted by: tanstaafl28
» RE: Try selling that nonsense in Vegas!
Posted by: Pooka
» RE: Try selling that nonsense in Vegas!
Posted by: tanstaafl28
» RE: This is so true- good article
Posted by: jessebucksc
» to jessebucksc
Posted by: bttl
» RE: This is so true- good article
Posted by: janakiblum
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Posted by: ChristopherLL on Jun 22, 2006 3:29 AM
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» Selfish Asshole-ism is the real problem!!
Posted by: FauxPorteno
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Posted by: socialpsych on Jun 22, 2006 3:55 AM
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Place one thermometer outside a southerly window and another inside a southerly room. In the morning, when the two thermometers read the same temperature, close up the house--close windows and doors and draw shades and curtains. In late afternoon or evening, when the two temperatures are nearly the same again, open the curtains and windows and leave them open all night. Repeat the procedure daily. This prevents the thermal mass of the interior of the house (walls, floors, furniture) from warming up during the day and then releasing heat into the air of rooms at night. During the day, temperatures can be up to 20 degrees cooler inside for most of the day.
It's free, it's completely harmless to the planet, and it empowers us to control our own environments and our own well-being.
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» RE: Low-impact Home Cooling Technique
Posted by: gar
» RE: Low-impact Home Cooling Technique
Posted by: marcinde
» RE: Low-impact Home Cooling Technique
Posted by: gar
» RE: Low-impact Home Cooling Technique
Posted by: bttl
» sounds great but...
Posted by: thistleblower
» RE: Low-impact Home Cooling Technique
Posted by: heartworker
» RE: Low-impact Home Cooling Technique
Posted by: clocksmith
» RE: Low-impact Home Cooling Technique
Posted by: pzo
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Posted by: churchofone on Jun 22, 2006 3:58 AM
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For me, this is a tough issue. Even though I live in the northern tier of states, I am miserable when the heat and humidity kick in. I tend to "hibernate" inside my air-conditioned home and end up with cabin fever. We try to use the a/c only when necessary, but then we're like everyone else, adding to the demand. I open the house at night and close it up in the morning. It doesn't help that we face due west, with little or no shade.
Until a better solution comes along, I'll just keep doing what I can - adding better windows, planting a tree to block the afternoon sun, keeping blinds and shades pulled during the hottest part of the day. Our little house was certainly not built for energy conservation - not in 1969!
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» RE: As things get hotter...
Posted by: gar
» RE: As things get hotter...
Posted by: heartworker
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Posted by: Samantha Vimes on Jun 22, 2006 4:17 AM
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» RE: Heat-triggered asthma
Posted by: Jaja56
» RE: Heat-triggered asthma
Posted by: cyberfactotum
» RE: Heat-triggered asthma
Posted by: Jaja56
» RE: Heat-triggered asthma
Posted by: Katie13
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Posted by: brunowe on Jun 22, 2006 5:42 AM
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Posted by: xbj on Jun 22, 2006 5:50 AM
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What could be a more elegant easier solution to two thorny problems?
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» RE: KILL TWO BIRDS WITH ONE STONE- MOVE TO CANADA
Posted by: scryberwitch
» RE: KILL TWO BIRDS WITH ONE STONE- MOVE TO CANADA
Posted by: NYRugby
» RE: KILL TWO BIRDS WITH ONE STONE- MOVE TO CANADA
Posted by: xbj
» RE: KILL TWO BIRDS WITH ONE STONE- MOVE TO CANADA
Posted by: NYRugby
» RE: KILL TWO BIRDS WITH ONE STONE- MOVE TO CANADA
Posted by: xbj
» RE: KILL TWO BIRDS WITH ONE STONE- MOVE TO CANADA
Posted by: Loopylafae
» RE: KILL TWO BIRDS WITH ONE STONE- MOVE TO CANADA
Posted by: xbj
» RE: KILL TWO BIRDS WITH ONE STONE- MOVE TO CANADA
Posted by: redjenny
» How?
Posted by: quirkygamer
» RE: How?
Posted by: xbj
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Posted by: daw13 on Jun 22, 2006 6:02 AM
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» RE: What this means
Posted by: mrcentrist
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Posted by: maxpayne on Jun 22, 2006 6:14 AM
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Posted by: oldsmobile on Jun 22, 2006 6:30 AM
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For instance, district cooling that works the same way as district heating pumps cool water through pipes over a large area, the water is cooled centrally, by building a heath exchanger in the ocean or in a lake. It is possible to cool entire cities this way with very little energy.
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» RE: Other forms of cooling
Posted by: gar
» RE: Where has this been done?
Posted by: oldsmobile
» RE: Where has this been done?
Posted by: gar
» RE: Other forms of cooling
Posted by: WhuThe?!?
» RE: Other forms of cooling
Posted by: mrcentrist
» RE: Other forms of cooling
Posted by: WhuThe?!?
» RE: Other forms of cooling
Posted by: mrcentrist
» RE: Other forms of cooling
Posted by: WhuThe?!?
» RE: Other forms of cooling
Posted by: mrcentrist
» RE: Other forms of cooling
Posted by: oldsmobile
» RE: Other forms of cooling
Posted by: WhuThe?!?
» RE: Other forms of cooling
Posted by: heatherj
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Posted by: antiapathy on Jun 22, 2006 6:33 AM
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If new home buyers realized this and started demanding passive heating/cooling design then our country could start to reduce energy consumption. Let's stop being apathetic consumers...
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» RE: Passive Cooling (and heating)
Posted by: gar
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Posted by: susanbm on Jun 22, 2006 6:57 AM
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» RE: why so cold?
Posted by: gar
» RE: why so cold?
Posted by: kateoneill
» RE: why so cold?
Posted by: WhuThe?!?
» RE: why so cold?
Posted by: Polly
» RE: why so cold?
Posted by: Don
» RE: why so cold?
Posted by: redjenny
» you know who wants it so cold...?
Posted by: thistleblower
» RE: why so cold?
Posted by: Juniper
» Americans are fatter
Posted by: quirkygamer
» RE: why so cold?
Posted by: CollD
» RE: why so cold?
Posted by: MEL810
» RE: why so cold?
Posted by: redbecca
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Posted by: NoPCZone on Jun 22, 2006 7:23 AM
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I dislike A/C except under the most extreme weather, but it is necessary in most modern construction down here. The only way to get a handle on this is more insulation and much more efficient cooling. I doubt we can tear down all of the buildings constructed since the 1950's and replace them with heavily shaded, deep-porched, high-ceilinged ones.
One unmentioned item- in many dry climates Swamp Coolers are used instead of conventional A/C. The primary coolant is water and not a refrigerant gas. Of course these are the very areas where water is at a premium.
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» RE: Great Article, Well Done
Posted by: sean000
» RE: Great Article, Well Done
Posted by: gar
» RE: Great Article, Well Done
Posted by: YogiBear
» More on swamp coolers (and hydronic ceilings)
Posted by: Kelly
» RE: More on swamp coolers (and hydronic ceilings)
Posted by: kazacs
» RE: More on swamp coolers (and hydronic ceilings)
Posted by: Kelly
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Posted by: chaoslegs on Jun 22, 2006 7:27 AM
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I also don't understand why the author thinks that people can't use PC or large TVs (32 inch in my house) when it is hot without AC. I do it all the time.
In terms of low cost approaches, I agree with an earlier poster about opening rooms at night. I go for the low cost approach in my bedroom and upstairs by using window fans to draw in cooler air that then gets circulated by ceiling fans.
I am also lucky to have an east facing 3 season porch for those really hot days. I read, listen to the radio and sweat.
The biggest loss was a huge tree, at least 50 feet tall, on the southwest corner of my property, this has cost me late day shade from the sun.
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» RE: What about the heat that A/C creates
Posted by: kateoneill
» RE: What about the heat that A/C creates
Posted by: ghoster
» RE: What about the heat that A/C creates
Posted by: YogiBear
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Posted by: kateoneill on Jun 22, 2006 8:09 AM
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Southerners use a lot more power for all appliances, whatever the season. Of course, northern households consume more fossil fuel for heat, but in the dead of winter, heating cannot be dispensed with.
I think it's a little unfair for the author to characterize heat as necessary in the North yet air conditioning as frivolous in the South. Those weren't Mr. Cox's words exactly, but it's how they came across to me.
No argument from me: having heat in severe winter cold is important. This past winter, my husband and I lived almost completely without heat (it's a long story, but trust me: it wasn't our first choice to do so), and it was really unpleasant, to say the least. We spent our days in coats and wrapped up in blankets, and still got very little work done from the distraction of being so uncomfortable.
So yes, heat=good. It keeps people comfortable and able to be productive, and helps prevent some illnesses and even death in the elderly.
I think some form of cooling in severe summer heat is equally important. It's just unfortunate that air conditioning, the most prevalent form of cooling, has so many detrimental qualities.
We use a variety of alternate forms of cooling our home and ourselves so that we can leave air conditioning as a last resort (and we do live in the South). But after a series of hot days with only little relief during the night, it becomes difficult to even think, and we both typically work from home.
I don't know. Maybe we're too spoiled by the culture in which we were raised. But although I now know I can survive in a colder house in the winter than I would have thought, I don't want to repeat that heat-less winter. Similarly, in the summer, we are always conscious of the amount of energy we consume when we run the AC, but we can only let it get so hot inside before we feel the need to turn it on.
The house should be somewhat cool in the winter and somewhat warm in the summer. And really, if every household and building were heated and cooled with that same idea of in mind, I don't think it would be such a big issue.
But don't get me wrong -- I'm not entirely defensive about this. I'm listening to the message in this article and in the comments, and my husband and I will be discussing ways we can improve our energy consumption footprint. I hope everyone else does, too.
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» RE: I agree, and am paying attention, but...
Posted by: CollD
» RE: I agree, and am paying attention, but...
Posted by: Michelle
» RE: I agree, and am paying attention, but...
Posted by: heartworker
» RE: I agree, and am paying attention, but...
Posted by: Zarquan
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Posted by: plantland on Jun 22, 2006 8:25 AM
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I am bummed that we replaced half of a central air systerm, the air handler in the attic, last summer without realizing thatit would not be compatible with the far more energy efficient compressors now coming out. Our air handler uses R22, the bad gas, and will not be compatible with the new ones out that use "Puron", or R410, which doesn't deplete the ozone layer. We will either need to replace the $3,000 air handler we just put in, or have to go with the bad old kind our new ,but being phased out, air handler requires.
So think ahead, read up, and know what you want before something breaks and you are too raggged to look into things!
WWW.consumerreportsonline.org has free articles on air.
States need laws that require leaks be fixed, and not allowing people to just keep adding freon without making repairs.Requiring checks for leaks could be more valuable than just requiring better refrigerants in new systems.
My air conditioning company said that it will not keep adding freon when the householder has refused to fix a leak, but, currently, it is up to the householder. As fly by night underground home repair services abound, we need to wonder how much additional freon is released. There is worse damage than just not paying taxes.
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» RE: eplacing equipment? New non-ozone depleting refrigerant available
Posted by: JoelRea
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Posted by: pfv on Jun 22, 2006 8:59 AM
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» RE: Move out of the desert!
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» RE: Move out of the desert!
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» RE: Move out of the desert!
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» RE: Move out of the desert!
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» RE: Move out of the desert!
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» RE: Move out of the desert!
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» RE: Move out of the desert!
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» RE: Arabian desert
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» RE: Move out of the desert!
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» RE: Move out of the desert!
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» RE: Move out of the desert!
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Posted by: Iconoclast421 on Jun 22, 2006 9:04 AM
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Posted by: RVGIV on Jun 22, 2006 9:13 AM
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I keep my home at a comfy 68 degrees in the summer, and 65-68 degrees in the winter. It balances out. My Wife has severe asthma and has had life threatening episodes brought on by Cincinnati summers. The summers here are miserable, 95-100 degree heat and unbearable humidity (98 degrees today). AC is as necessary in the summers here as heat is in the winter. My company thankfully keeps the office at 72, and our 100,000 SF warehouse, filled with perishable beer & wine, is kept at 67 year round.
BTW, how much electricity does all of those fans that you cheapskates are running consume?
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» RE: People that 'hate air conditioning' are cheapskates
Posted by: daniel1982
» RE: People that 'hate air conditioning' are cheapskates
Posted by: RVGIV
» RE: People that 'hate air conditioning' are cheapskates
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» RE: People that 'hate air conditioning' are cheapskates
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» RE: People that 'hate air conditioning' are cheapskates
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» RE: People that 'hate air conditioning' are cheapskates
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» RE: People that 'hate air conditioning' are cheapskates
Posted by: RVGIV
» RE: People that 'hate air conditioning' are cheapskates
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» RE: People that 'hate air conditioning' are cheapskates
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» RE: People that 'hate air conditioning' are cheapskates
Posted by: Elmowilcox
» RE: People that 'hate air conditioning' are cheapskates
Posted by: RVGIV
» RE: People that 'hate air conditioning' are cheapskates
Posted by: tclaverdure
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Posted by: beltane on Jun 22, 2006 9:16 AM
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But something even more important has been lost to the air conditioning revolution, and that is our sense of community. My old pre A/C house, situated in an old pre A/C neighborhood, has a porch. It has beautiful old pecan trees around it for shade. The neighborhood has sidewalks. People used to use those sidewalks to walk to the store, the park, the library, passing residents fanning themsleves on their porches, stopping to chat just so they could enjoy the respite of a shady spot.
Newer, post A/C neighborhoods in my town are devoid of porches and sidewalks. Each resident lives in their own tightly sealed bubble of privacy, emerging just long enough to scurry to their tightly sealed mobile bubble of privacy which they then navigate to yet another tightly sealed bubble, usually of commerce. There is no chance to build community when each person is so preoccupied with their separate concerns (most of which seem to revolve around earning enough money to pay for all these bubbles!)
I truly believe that this is why Texas has changed in the past 50 years from a sparsely populated hell-hole (environmentally speaking) to a densely populated hell-hole (socially speaking).
Furthermore, the air-conditioning of Texas allowed rich snot nosed Yankee preppies to move here and live comfortably while they stole our oil, and to bring their idiot sons with them so they could fulfil their dumb-ass little boy cowboy fantasies. But I'll leave discussion of the Bush family to a later time.
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» RE: A/C kills community
Posted by: socialpsych
» RE: A/C kills community
Posted by: kateoneill
» How can that be??????
Posted by: nunyabinis
» RE: How can that be??????
Posted by: mylungsarempty
» RE: A/C kills community
Posted by: bttl
» RE: A/C kills community
Posted by: wereallfukked
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Posted by: RVGIV on Jun 22, 2006 9:22 AM
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Air conditioning places more load on the engine, which can affect fuel economy. But opening the windows at highway speeds can affect fuel economy even more by disrupting the vehicle's aerodynamics. ..In our tests we found that using air conditioning had a negligible effect on fuel consumption. While driving at 65 mph gas mileage was reduced in both vehicles by about 1 mpg. The effect of opening the windows at 65 mph was about the same-it might make more of a difference if you drive faster. Because air conditioning can help keep you comfortable and alert and because most modern cars use it to keep windows defrosted, we suggest that the small trade-off in fuel economy for increased safety is worthwhile."
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» RE: From Consumer reports:
Posted by: YogiBear
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Posted by: notrab68 on Jun 22, 2006 9:23 AM
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!!!!!
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Posted by: rainking on Jun 22, 2006 10:13 AM
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Posted by: grolan on Jun 22, 2006 10:17 AM
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How about a little shade? Look at any housing development - especially apartments, condos and townhouses, but family homes too. What's the first thing the developer does? Cut down every tree. Sure, it's easier and cheaper for the builder, but it leaves the buildings baking in the sun. In the summer, the a/c runs 24/7 in my apt, because I'm on the top floor on the west side - without a/c it would be 100 degrees inside. But if there were some shade, it would have to run far less. We've got to get past this approach of devastating an area before building on it - leave some damn trees standing!
People can use external sunshades too. I have one covering the west window (on the outside) - a thin, translucent but tough material that blocks 100% of UV and 60% or so of all light. It keeps the apt 10 degrees cooler just doing that, as it prevents sunlight from ever passing through the window and causing greenhouse warming inside the apt. (The company is
"Coolaroo", out of Australia. The sunshades are tough, attractive and cheap).
Buildings should be built with greenspace roofs, that help control water runoff and keep the building cooler too. Certainly not black tar roofs like so many apt buildings - they just soak up the heat. How much nicer to have a roof garden one could sit in to enjoy the breeze.
But, bottom line, a/c is not going away and will in fact be used more. The crux of all these problems, the root, is our dependence on fossil fuels, and that is what has to be attacked. A major national effort - indeed, a global effort - a Marshall Plan for energy is what's needed. Bush's greatest failure (and there are many) is not fumbling the war on terror, or Iraq, or tax cuts for the rich, or environmental abuses or any of his general incompetency - it's that as an oilman, he has failed to lead the country to an alternative energy future. We need to get off oil and on to nonpolluting alternatives. That's the only real solution, and until that happens, the problem will only get worse, no matter how much tinkering and trimming around the edges we do. And, sorry to say, unless someone comes up with a hydrogen technology that works or something else radically new, and in a big hurry, the solution has to include nuclear. Sure, nuke waste is dangerous and persistant, but it can be contained, and it does not f* up the climate. It's a case of choosing between the lesser of evils - deal with nuke waste, or stew in an overheating world. Time is very short, and the biosphere simply cannot stand much more. I fear it is already too late.
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» Don't forget the whole house attic fans!
Posted by: Kelly
» RE: Don't forget the whole house attic fans!
Posted by: RVGIV
» RE: Don't forget the whole house attic fans!
Posted by: Kelly
» RE: A/C Not Going Away
Posted by: mylungsarempty
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Posted by: underledge on Jun 22, 2006 10:57 AM
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Posted by: rainking on Jun 22, 2006 11:01 AM
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Posted by: Don on Jun 22, 2006 11:10 AM
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So ceiling fans have become popular once again, in the home as well as in public buildings. But to-day's ceiling fans are mostly cheaply made imports with anemic motors and a 5-year life expectancy. What few of those old fans with the real cast-iron last-a-lifetime motors that survived in good working condition, go for a mint on the "collectables" market.
Think of all the energy that would have been saved if public buildings had simply kept their ceiling fans when a/c was installed. Plus the a/c units would have lasted longer due to less wear and tear, and those beautiful old cast-iron motors would still be spinning away.
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Posted by: velvel of atlanta on Jun 22, 2006 11:17 AM
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» RE: why not a/c?
Posted by: gar
» RE: why not a/c?
Posted by: velvel of atlanta
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Posted by: kryptx on Jun 22, 2006 11:18 AM
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We can reduce A/C usage by emphasizing proper energy-efficient building techniques such as shade placement, roof overhangs, light-colored (or energy-producing) roof materials, and proper insulation including double- and triple-paned windows and meticulous insulation of exterior walls. Few consumers should resist these changes since they will increase property value and reduce heating and cooling bills... we just need to get them out there.
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» Don't have to just look at buildings in this
Posted by: Elmowilcox
» RE: Productivity
Posted by: mylungsarempty
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Posted by: Gisele on Jun 22, 2006 11:21 AM
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I have fans strategically placed around my home, and will wet a towel with cold water and place them over the fan to cool the area. I do care about the ecological environment I live in, but that isn't my reason for not using this "wonder" of comfort. I used to live for air conditioned spaces, my home was kept at a constant 68 degrees year round. Over time I found that I just couldn't function when it became "smokin' hot" outside, and I couldn't get warm when it hit 20 below. It seemed my body had lost a natural ability to regulate it's own temperature, and deal with temperature extremes.
So...I bit the bullet. Shut the AC down. I decided to try living without it to see if it made a difference. I admit...I went through hell for about 2 years...and suddenly things seemed to right themselves. I found I was drinking more water because of natural thirst (something I just didn't do before), and I wasn't having to take meds for one sinus infection after the other. I wasn't lethargic due to heat, nor was I having nasty allergy related headaches anymore.
Do I miss it? On very rare occasions I do...but I wouldn't go back to it again. I'm healthier now than I've been since I shut it off 10 years ago. The money saved for the twice yearly cleanings comes in handy too...I just saw the niftiest pair of heels yesterday...
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» RE: I prefer not to use it...
Posted by: RVGIV
» RE: I prefer not to use it...
Posted by: socialpsych
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Posted by: velvel of atlanta on Jun 22, 2006 11:23 AM
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Outlaw air conditioning in Washington DeeCee governmental buildings except for the White House and National Archives and maybe Smithsonian. That way the Congress would go home on Memorial Day and not return until Columbus Day. Surely they could do this if they used web communications and we could save money for more important purposes...like meeting with constituents in public places instead of hiding from all but their moneybags?
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Posted by: rainking on Jun 22, 2006 11:46 AM
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» RE: more a/c
Posted by: marcinde
» RE: more a/c
Posted by: ariessag
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Posted by: Charaud on Jun 22, 2006 11:55 AM
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I was a Home Builder for 45 years. For the last twenty years my company was deeply involved by energy saving devices and found that there was an insurmountable resistance on the part of the price conscious home buyer. We provided alternate siting for homes which we offered plus a varity of energy reducing materials and methods of construction. Far from being forced into purchasing cheaper homes buyers actually refused to spend the extra money which the enrgy saving systems cost. We had a list of 12-15 systems which could save energy alongwith the associated costs of such with no added overhead or profit to my company. Time and time again people would hear how much could be saved by a realtively small initial expense but still refused to spend the extra dollars. We attempted to install some systems but quickly found that we couldn't recover the cost associated with them whem other homes were offered at a cheaper price without them.
The probleem lay not with the consciencious builder but with the price sensitive buyer.
People's habits also figured into the waste constantly referred to. People would insist upon leaving their air conditioning off during the heat of the day and then turning it on at the end of the day expecting that the house would quickly become comfortable. They refused to accept the fact that this was false economy because it takes 24 hours more or less to condition the air in a house and remove heat and moisture from carpets and furniture. Thus every day they were supporting an inefficient system of conditioning the air in their homes.
As for car air conditioning , on hot days it is almost intolerable to drive in a car which is hot and dirty from the heat and road debris and gas emissions coming through open windows not to even speak abour the mental and physical condition of the automobile operator. Incidentally I have tested the gas mileage of my car both with and without Air Conditioning and have not noticed a discernable difference.
Of course I do drive a hybrid vehicle which may not have as much differential as a high horsepower auto does. Say that might be an alternative to consider!!!!!!!!
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» Trees provide cool air
Posted by: YogiBear
» RE: Trees provide cool air
Posted by: BlueTigress
» RE: Charley Barcelo
Posted by: Paul525
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Posted by: nunyabinis on Jun 22, 2006 1:23 PM
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You Libs keep getting farther and farther out in left field. Pretty soon you'll be out in the parking lot with the chicken wing bones and the spent peanut hulls. You are a WACKY lot.
Question for you:
How's that been working for you at the ballot box?
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» RE: You Libs crack me up....
Posted by: lucas
» RE: You Libs crack me up....
Posted by: lucas
» RE: You Libs crack me up....
Posted by: 1984NOW!!!
» RE: You Libs crack me up....
Posted by: acidrain69
» RE: You Libs crack me up....
Posted by: 1984NOW!!!
» RE: You Libs crack me up....
Posted by: nunyabinis
» I agree but you still suck
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» RE: I agree but you still suck
Posted by: nunyabinis
» His busines, our atmosphere
Posted by: M.
» RE: You Libs crack me up....
Posted by: kittynboi
» RE: You Libs crack me up....
Posted by: nunyabinis
» you both need to grow up
Posted by: thistleblower
» RE: You Libs crack me up....
Posted by: 1984NOW!!!
» RE: You Libs crack me up....
Posted by: heartworker
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Posted by: YogiBear on Jun 22, 2006 2:45 PM
Current rating: 3 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
I mean, I drive an SUV, I live in the south and run my a/c, my house is a leaky sieve, and it is far to big for my family size. But I haven't had any kids, so I'm probably in the black when compared to the rest ya.
Kidding aside, I wish people wouldn't freak out about articles like this. The author isn't telling us to turn off, just to cool our heels a bit, so to speak. Progressives have been sounding the warning for many years now and their early comments about recycling paper and bottles and overfishing and rainforest conservation got just as much flak as their more recent efforts have. But our species is better off for their efforts, isn't it?
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Posted by: YogiBear on Jun 22, 2006 2:47 PM
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Temp: 95°F
Feels Like: 105°F
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Posted by: M. on Jun 22, 2006 5:26 PM
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Together with the automobile and industrial fossil fuel based agriculture and food distribution systems, AC has made modern high energy society....
Some day it's all gonna wash away. To some extent we can rejoice in the prospect... but the pain and suffering is going to be immense. If you think about peak oil, the rising price of energy and how it will wash away the foundations of American economic life, you can't exactly be happy.
As life in the former slave states gets harder, it is the poor who will suffer the most.
Yes, sure, it will be good to see the unreasonable assumptions of high energy society (cars, nitrogen fertilizers, AC) get washed away... unaffordable luxuries. There is pleasure to take in watching that spectacle. And yet there is pain in it too.
It's really hard to know whether to feel justified and satisfied as the predictions of environmental/economic tragedy are realized... or whether to feel sympathy for those who believed that consuming more resources than the rest of the world was their birthright.
Were they deluded? Or knowing arrogant participants in their own delusional belief system.
As Jim Kunstler argues in The Long Emergency, the future of great swathes of America in the post peak oil era is going to be very very hard.
Residents of idylic little towns in upstate New York are hardly going to be spared the effects of the collapse.
Will it come quickly, or slowly? So many questions.
But AC... man that's a big one, and its going to get awfully expensive soon.... and unaffordable one day.
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» good comment
Posted by: Michelle
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Posted by: chief of okeefe on Jun 22, 2006 5:27 PM
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But if you start talking about taking away the AC you are just going to get run over. Try an issue where you have a prayer buddy!!
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» ...don't worry, no one will "take it away" from you...you'll take it away from yourself
Posted by: M.
» RE: Search for modest improvements and bag the radical crap
Posted by: tbell
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Posted by: acidrain69 on Jun 22, 2006 7:39 PM
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First of all, that statement is incorrect. There is no "outrunning" the laws of physics. If you think you have out run them, then you didn't have the right law to begin with. You are not outrunning TD by putting heat into the outside. The heat escapes the outside coils by the same principle that it escapes your home into the cold coils inside. Heat moves to equalize itself, as noted in the article.
Second, you mention that AC is not a necessity. I beg to differ. I live in florida. 90-100 degree summers are not survivable for a lot of people. Say goodbye to your retired parents and grandparents and anyone with a heart condition if AC leaves tomorrow; they won't survive it.
AC is no less important than heat is to the north. I could just as easily tell you to "wear more jackets and sweaters in the winter". 90-100 degrees is not the same thing in Florida as it is in Arizona or California. I have been to both. The humidity makes it difficult to breathe down here. Texas is more like Florida, but still not as bad (depending on where you are, state is too big anyway).
But I commend you for noting the business culture in all this. We do push ourselves harder than any other nation (in business at least, not in school). Businesses have been trying to suppress wages and rights since the first worker picked up a rock and started banging on something and getting paid for it. AC is certainly tied to productivity. And we are a productivity driven society. We are no longer interested in doing something well. We are interested in expansion only, and that is not sustainable.
Put you'll take my AC when you pry it from my cold, dead fingers. Although we could do with more reasonable temps. I freeze to death in the middle of summer because I do IT and I'm near the AC unit that shares the server room.
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» RE: It IS mandatory in florida
Posted by: tscox
» Snowbirds
Posted by: BlueTigress
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Posted by: TagsNOLA on Jun 22, 2006 9:13 PM
Current rating: Not yet rated [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Liberals who disdain such advances in science and technology are merely dupes of the feudalists who resent the fact that we ever did away with such institutions as serfdom and slavery. They are luddites at heart who despise the rise of a middle class labor force. The anti-technological bias in mass media and in our institutions of higher learning comes from this neo-feudalist crowd and is swallowed hook line and sinker by well intentioned but gullible liberal tree-hugger types. But the fact is, deep in his soul, Al Gore and his ilk are feudalists, bound and determined to turn back the clock. Without advanced technologies, there can be no such thing as a middle class. Rest assured, when Jimmy Carter coined his rubric of "lowered expectations," he wasn't including himself. And neither is Al Gore or others of his ilk.
TagsNOLA
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» RE: Build Nukes
Posted by: TroyHelming
» RE: Build Nukes
Posted by: Artaraxl
» RE: Build Nukes
Posted by: JoelRea
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Posted by: AtmeratisX on Jun 22, 2006 9:14 PM
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I grew up in Galveston, TX in the 1950's. My Grandmother's house in which we lived was built in the 1890's and had huge floor-to-ceiling windows that allowed the almost constant southeast breeze from the Gulf to flow throughout the house. With the 13ft. ceilings and big ceiling fans, there was no need (or so we thought) for air conditioning. I remember going downtown in the summer when big stores like Sears and Penney's had huge A/C units that would blow cool air out to the sidewalk. When my parents bought a newer house, we had an attic fan that pulled air in through open windows and exhausted it out through the attic vents. Even the warmest summer nights were cool enough to sleep comfortably. My parents bought their first A/C unit in 1962. It was one of those 300lb monstrosities that hung half-in and half-out of the window of their bedroom.
My first experience with 24/7 A/C was in the Navy. I was on a new construction ship that was completely air conditioned. Four years of that and I was hooked. When I returned to Texas there was no way I was going to live without A/C.
I live in East Texas now. July, August, and September are the real summer months here, with both temperature and humidity increasing to unbearable levels. So now its programmable thermostats, ceiling fans, tinted double-pane windows, insulating drapes, etc.
So each time I brave the elements traversing between my artificially cooled office, my car, and my home, I think to myself, "Yep, us Texans can really take that heat!"
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Posted by: Hinnus_Asinus on Jun 22, 2006 11:05 PM
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I already had ceiling fans and an attic fan. I ran them all night with the windows open and then closed up the house tight before going to work. The earlier poster described the "two thermometer method" and mine was pretty much the same plan but without the thermometers, just "open at night, closed while at work." I put a window fan in the living room and the bedroom. On the really hot days, when I wanted to watch TV on a weekend afternoon, I used the old "put the fan behind the 50 lb. block of ice in a metal tray" trick. All in all, from May to late September, I only had about a dozen "bad" days. Granted, I had A/C at work but it was still plenty hot outside when I'd get home.
My co-workers, upon hearing my plight, felt so bad for me but by the end of the summer felt that I was psychotic because I was saying, "It's not so bad, really...actually it's been good because I forgot what I had missed." That summer brought a lot of good sensory input that I had missed for years...the cool refreshment of a cold drink on a muggy afternoon...the wonderful leisure of sitting on the porch...the tepid comfort of lounging in a tub of leukwarm water and letting the ceiling fan blow on wet skin after returning to the living room...the lazy somnolent feeling of being "just a little too warm but not terribly warm." Suddenly, the muggy 100% humidity Missouri summers were not nearly as daunting as I'd let them be for many years.
My electric bill in my little house, normally $120 in July/August, went down to $80--another reward. I lost 15 lbs., probably because my metabolism was a little more active (I always say "sweating a little was good for me) and my appetite was less in the heat.
Since then, I have returned to A/C but only in a limited sense. I still open the house at night and only run the A/C part time now, on the hottest days, and the thermostat on the A/C is set for 80 when I do run it. I simply realized I liked the senses and sounds of a hot night without A/C more than I realized. It's not a "whacko" thing, it's a lifestyle choice that brought back some simple pleasures.
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Posted by: nunyabinis on Jun 23, 2006 5:39 AM
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Tree Huggers have been successful at keeping any new nuclear power plants from going online since the 70's. This caused power companies to use fossil fuel sources to power their new plants.
Well, now the enviros want us to turn off the AC. That ain't gonna happen. The majority of our electricity could have been coming from nuclear power plants by now. The "energy crisis" in the early 70's should have GUARANTEED that we start building nukes like there was no tomorrow. Over 70 percent of France's electric power comes for nuclear NOW. By God, if the French can do it, we can. A nuclear power plant WILL be coming to a town near you. It's only a matter of time. Get used to the idea.
The citizens of this country are going to blame the far left radicals if their standard of living begins to fall and that will be reflected at the ballot box. Remember Carter's "maliase" speech? There's gonna be some malaise alright. We need to produce MORE power, NOT less. Unfortunately, it seems that the only way to get anything done in this country these days is to wait until a crisis comes along that FORCES us to do what we should have been doing for decades. Not to worry, ADULTS will step up to the plate and we'll be building Nukes, drilling in ANWAR and drilling off the gulf coast shelf.
FYI, where I live, it was 81 degrees with 100% humidity when I went outside at 6:00 this morning. I ain't gonna turn off my AC during July, August and September. I don't care how much it costs. If I've got to pick up cans beside the road to pay for it, so be it.
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» nunyabinis doesn't know this
Posted by: Michael Robin
» RE: nunyabinis doesn't know this (sources?)
Posted by: Artaraxl
» hmm.
Posted by: Coleman
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Posted by: bookwoman on Jun 23, 2006 6:03 AM
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We speak about the enormous debt our government is creating and the impact on our children and grandchildren. However, if there is no liveable earth, the amount of the debt will be moot.
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Posted by: TroyHelming on Jun 23, 2006 7:13 AM
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Posted by: M. on Jun 23, 2006 7:35 AM
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Oh dear, you are desperate aren't you?
There is what there is, and when it is gone it's gone, and the price starts climbing.
You'll be surprised to learn that even a massive nuclear powered system would only have enough uranium for about 50 to 100 years of operation. Good enough for you? Maybe, but hardly a "long term" solution. Or is the limited supply of uranium and it's toxicity a liberal plot too?
I agree with you however that your desperation will lead to energy production.... mostly coal.... some nuclear.
The coal will speed the global warming process, requiring more AC...
The nuclear planets will create an insoluable waste problem... but that will be future generations' problem.
Your post points to the central problem. People will do what they need to survive today, to get through THIS heat wave, and the future be damned. ... if the electrical grid can supply them.
That's a human propopensity isn't it? Can anyone blame them? Should anyone try to stop them? Don't try to stop me! Don't try to stop you!
But just know that every solution out there has costs and the primary cost, from coal burning, is going to make the problem even worse, in a vicious cycle that is likely to extinguish life on this planet.
Those with the means (and you plan to be one of them don't you?) will pay whatever it takes to live. Those without the means? Well we don't really care about them do we?
In the mean time live well and party on, cause the temperature is rising.
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» response to nunyabinis above
Posted by: M.
» RE: oh you poor deluded fool
Posted by: nunyabinis
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Posted by: Old Skeptic on Jun 23, 2006 9:41 AM
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Few question the need for at least moderate heat during winters, but believe me, excessive heat can be just as life-threatening as excessive cold. The oldest houses, with high ceilings, big windows, etc., may have helped, but I'm sure that my ancestors must have suffered a lot during summer.
When the weather is very dry, as it so often is in western Texas, it is possible to use "swamp coolers" which use less electricity, but also keep the air inside fairly humid, which can cause problems in itself.
To me, the question whether A/C is necessary or not is moot. The old houses with the high ceilings, etc., are going, if not gone, and in today's crime-ridden society, it would be extremely unwise to leave one's windows open all night while one slept!
I see no real alternative to A/C as long as I live in a semi-arid, hot area. Using ceiling fans and floor fans to circulate the cooled air from my window units takes energy too, but it keeps my house within tolerable limits.
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» RE: Yes, A/C uses energy, but....
Posted by: CollD
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Posted by: gerdhansel on Jun 23, 2006 10:00 AM
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These buildings were actually surplus World War 2 barracks converted into cheapo tenements for poor, young married students.
We had a three-year-old boy, the heat and humidity were unbearable and my wife was pregnant with our second son. The summers of 1979 and 1980 were the most miserable of my entire life.
I knew a lot of young Yuppie couples in the neighborhood. Most of my neighbors were law students, and all of them were going to work for the ACLU someday. Yeah, right. They gloried in the collection of plywood huts that passed for family housing.
When the University decided to replace the old barracks with air-conditioned, modular housing they organized protests and made signs. But they had the cheapest housing available in Austin, and naturally they didn't want to give it up.
Not me. We moved into the air-conditioned Colorado Married Student Housing units further up Fifth Street, and life suddenly became bearable again. The plywood shacks of Brackenridge were sold to the partying university in San Marcos.
I'm in my 50s now and I live in the much-preferable climate of northwest Nevada. Here air conditioning is a luxury that many are able to go without. I'm one of them. Single-digit humidity and moderate temperatures are a marvel.
But anybody who thinks going without air conditioning in Austin, Texas, is not one hell of a sacrifice is out of their gourd. They were idiots back then, and they're still idiots today. They can keep their hot, sweaty climate, and sweat buckets until their Birkenstocks rot and their graying ponytails fall off.
I refuse to even visit my relatives in Texas during the summer.
When all the fossil fuels are gone, mankind will revert to his old nomadic ways. If it's too hot, you go where it's cooler. If it's too cold you go where it's warmer. The elderly snowbirds in the Airstreams and Winnebagos already have that figured out.
But don't worry about over-population getting in the way of our new nomadic lifestyle. After the wars for the diminishing resources are over, there'll be a hell of a lot fewer of us left in this best of all possible worlds to enjoy the spoils.
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» RE: austin without AC is ridiculous
Posted by: nunyabinis
» RE: austin without AC is ridiculous
Posted by: cyberfactotum
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Posted by: froggeymonkey on Jun 23, 2006 11:08 AM
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» RE: SWAMP COOLERS? think about the water
Posted by: Michelle
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Posted by: monkeywrench on Jun 23, 2006 11:26 AM
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My partial answer, here in Southern California, where the night air cools off, is to use a whole-house fan. It evacuates warm house air into the attic and out the gable vents, simutaneously cooling the attic and, through open windows, pulling in cool outside evening air – at less than 1/10th the energy of running our central air conditioning. Works for us...natural air conditioning
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Posted by: nunyabinis on Jun 23, 2006 11:51 AM
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Posted by: tdicks on Jun 23, 2006 4:22 PM
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http://illdill.org
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Posted by: quirkygamer on Jun 23, 2006 5:35 PM
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My escape? Seattle, Washington. Rarely, if ever, gets hot enough to warrant air conditioning, which most buildings lack, anyway.
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Posted by: ciccio on Jun 24, 2006 10:05 AM
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never been in Toronto when it hits 95 degrees. Where Toronto differs from most US cities is that the city has done
something about the high energy usage of heating and a/c.
I suggest you google Enwave, this central cooling project is
expected to save 61MW electricity when it hits full capacity.
At the moment it is running at about 25MW
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Posted by: Brad Feldhaus on Jun 25, 2006 12:45 AM
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According to the author, we should give up our A/C, and experience survival of the fittest.
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» RE: A/C in Texas
Posted by: Spherehead
» RE: A/C in Texas
Posted by: CollD
» RE: A/C in Texas
Posted by: cindylouwho
» RE: A/C in Texas
Posted by: tanstaafl28
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Posted by: heartworker on Jun 25, 2006 6:17 PM
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There are areas in the United States where people are found dead in their apartments and homes from heat exposure. Add to that increasing global temperatures, and the amount of suffering is heightened. It would seem prudent to design an innovative air conditioning system which is more environmentally friendly, and more energetically efficient--even solar powered.
The comment that Americans have become less tolerant of ranges of heat and humidity intrigues me. As a child, I remember having nausea, diarrhea, and heat stroke from the hot, humid days, and I dreaded the approach of summer. I have vivid memories of my mother doing housework, laundry, and ironing in the miserable heat. We weren't any more tolerant of the heat...there just wasn't any escaping it.
How about thinking of ways to improve the technology, and make buildings more well-insulated? Has anyone got any other ideas?
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Posted by: tanstaafl28 on Jun 28, 2006 8:12 AM
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Do we need to find alternative means of electricity generation? YES!
Do we need to keep corporations and private operators from doing anything they please with our environment? YES!
Should we take steps to minimize, streamline, and curtail our consumption? YES!
Do we need to get "Holier than thou" about Air Conditioning? NO!
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Posted by: Zarquan on Jun 29, 2006 7:55 AM
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Posted by: PennyWiseLBFoolish on Jul 8, 2006 9:27 PM
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Posted by: JoelRea on Jul 9, 2006 7:06 PM
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The simple fact is, both are going away, and relatively soon. We’re running out of affordable energy, at the worst possible time (with global population at record levels, and with India and China now trying to join the First World and saying, “Hey, it’s our turn now! We want the benefits of massive petroleum consumption, too!”). And when it’s gone, it won’t just mean the end of A/C and driving SUVs around. It’ll mean going back to burning wood (with all the environmental problems that entails) for heating. It’ll mean going back to horse-drawn carriages and horseback riding for transportation. But it means far more than that.
People just don’t get it: petroleum is far more than just fuel. It’s also lubricants (machine oil), needed to keep most machines running regardless of what powers them. Even bicycles need the occasional squirt of oil along the chain and hubs.
It’s plastics, the only thing that machines can be made of that don’t require machine-oil lubricants, and which are used for so much in our society. Imagine giving up everything made of plastic of any kind.
It’s pharmaceuticals, including chemotherapy and other drugs that people depend on for their lives, and will depend on even more as the environmental devastation wreaked by fossil fuels and other aspects of civilization (such as ozone depletion) increases cancer rates further.
Most importantly of all, it’s the Green Revolution pesticides and fertilizers that have multiplied the crop yields of the available arable land of the Earth by roughly a dozenfold over traditional and organic methods, and which are the one and only reason that we’re able to even try to feed the 6½ billion people on the planet now, or the 7+ billion expected in a few years just as the endless emergency of peak oil hits in earnest. Without those, we can’t have that many people on the planet, period. We can’t feed seven billion. Nor six. Nor five. Nor four. Nor three. We may be able to feed two billion, if we tear down much of civilization and devote more land area to farming. One billion is more like it.
These are just a few of the petrochemicals that our civilization depends on. The thing is, you can’t make any of those things from solar power. Nor wind power. Nor water power. Nor geothermal power. Nor hydrogen fuel cells (note: even though we do have plenty of hydrogen in the universe, fuel cells also require platinum for their grids, and the whole Earth has about enough platinum, assuming we could devote every atom of it to this sole purpose, to power every American vehicle on the roads today: but only for one year, when the grids would wear out. Then no more platinum, and no more fuel cells. Ever. There’s a reason that platinum has long been more valuable than gold). Nor even nuclear power (fission nor fusion, even if the latter were feasible, which hasn’t yet been demonstrated). Some, but not all, may be able to be made from biodiesel or similar processes such as thermal depolymerization, but not nearly enough.
(Continued in first Reply)
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» RE: Stan Cox, "heating is indispensible" but A/C isn't!?
Posted by: JoelRea
» RE: Stan Cox, "heating is indispensible" but A/C isn't!?
Posted by: JoelRea
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Posted by: sschoeppey on Jul 19, 2006 4:39 PM
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Posted by: RVGIV on Jul 20, 2006 1:38 PM
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Why don't you give up your fridge since the sky is falling? Your body can learn to handle slightly higher bacteria levels in food, and you can do your shopping everyday instead of weekly, like they do in the rest of the world. You better get used to it because when the big energy crash comes you are going to lose it anyway. Along with your stove and of course your energy wasting computers.
Come on folks, it's put up or shut up time.
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Posted by: pom on Aug 25, 2006 10:19 AM
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