ENVIRONMENT  
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The Most Urgent Threat to World Peace Is … Canada

The harm this country could do in the next two weeks will outweigh all the good it has done in a century.
December 2, 2009  |  
 
 
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Editor's Note: The video to the right is AgitProp Communications' new video on the environmental dangers posed by Canada's Tar Sands oil project.

When you think of Canada, which qualities come to mind? The world’s peace-keeper, the friendly nation, a liberal counterweight to the harsher pieties of its southern neighbor, decent, civilized, fair, well-governed? Think again. This country’s government is now behaving with all the sophistication of a chimpanzee’s tea party. So amazingly destructive has Canada become, and so insistent have my Canadian friends been that I weigh into this fight, that I’ve broken my self-imposed ban on flying and come to Toronto.

So here I am, watching the astonishing spectacle of a beautiful, cultured nation turning itself into a corrupt petrostate. Canada is slipping down the development ladder, retreating from a complex, diverse economy towards dependence on a single primary resource, which happens to be the dirtiest commodity known to man. The price of this transition is the brutalisation of the country, and a government campaign against multilateralism as savage as any waged by George Bush.

Until now I believed that the nation which has done most to sabotage a new climate change agreement was the United States. I was wrong. The real villain is Canada. Unless we can stop it, the harm done by Canada in December 2009 will outweigh a century of good works.

In 2006 the new Canadian government announced that it was abandoning its targets to cut greenhouse gases under the Kyoto Protocol. No other country that had ratified the treaty has done this. Canada was meant to have cut emissions by 6% between 1990 and 2012. Instead they have already risen by 26%.

It’s now clear that Canada will refuse to be sanctioned for abandoning its legal obligations. The Kyoto Protocol can be enforced only through goodwill: countries must agree to accept punitive future obligations if they miss their current targets. But the future cut Canada has volunteered is smaller than that of any other rich nation. Never mind special measures; it won’t accept even an equal share. The Canadian government is testing the international process to destruction and finding that it breaks all too easily. By demonstrating that climate sanctions aren’t worth the paper they’re written on, it threatens to render any treaty struck at Copenhagen void.

After giving the finger to Kyoto, Canada then set out to prevent the other nations from striking a successor agreement. At the end of 2007 it single-handedly blocked a Commonwealth resolution to support binding targets for industrialised nations. After the climate talks in Poland in December 2008, it won the Fossil of the Year award, presented by environmental groups to the country which had done most to disrupt the talks. The climate change performance index, which assesses the efforts of the world’s 60 richest nations, was published in the same month. Saudi Arabia came 60th. Canada came 59th.

In June this year the media obtained Canadian briefing documents which showed that the government was scheming to divide the Europeans. During the meeting in Bangkok in October, almost the entire developing world bloc walked out when the Canadian delegate was speaking, as they were so revolted by his bullying. Last week the Commonwealth heads of government battled for hours (and eventually won) against Canada’s obstructions. A concerted campaign has now begun to expel Canada from the Commonwealth.

In Copenhagen next week, this country will do everything in its power to wreck the talks. The rest of the world must do everything in its power to stop it. But such is the fragile nature of climate agreements that one rich nation – especially a member of the G8, the Commonwealth and the Kyoto group of industrialised countries – could scupper the treaty. Canada now threatens the well-being of the world.


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George Monbiot is the author Heat: How to Stop the Planet from Burning. Read more of his writings at Monbiot.com. This article originally appeared in the Guardian.
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Canada sinks to world lows
Posted by: unblocktheplanet on Dec 2, 2009 2:00 AM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
I have just been reading the book, GREENPEACE, by Rex Weyler. It made me feel proud that unprecedented numbers of Canadians actively opposed nuclear testing and the war in Vietnam.

I was born in the US and turned my back on its warmongering by moving to Canada in 1968. Canada gave refuge to more than 150,000 American war resisters. We saw govt give more than lip-service to freedom.

The world has been blinded by the excesses of the Bush years in the US. What we didn't notice was the fact that Canada grew ever more repressive.

Canadian borders guards now dress and act like storm troopers, far in excess of the US' Homeland Security, TSA and Customs. We've all heard about laptop security when entering the US. As an activist, my laptop has been seized twice on entering, you guessed it: Canada.

A despotic, self-serving govt cannot exist without the acquiescence of its citizens. Democracy is something to be seized, not something we vote for. If voting could change anything, it would be illegal.

I miss the Canadian image as the world's Dudley Do-Right and I am ashamed to be a Canadian.

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» RE: Canada sinks to world lows Posted by: AMERICAN VETERAN
» RE: Canada sinks to world lows Posted by: Don Quixot

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Canada? What about China? India? And the US?
Posted by: peteralter on Dec 2, 2009 2:26 AM   
Current rating: 3    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
While the author makes a lot of great points, to focus the issue just on Canada is a bit too sensationalist! While it is true that the Cons, Harper, and the lobbyists are sociopaths and greedy ones at that, there are many other greedy sociopaths around. And, that is the dilemma we face. It feels like we are one cop fighting the whole Italian mafia! The incentives from big corporations to use green technology has been lagging to say the least, but then what would you do if you had oil, coal, and gas like we do in Canada. Why would you build watches when you can cheaply export the material needed to make them. Europe did not have that and, so, it made sense to look for alternative energy sources. Canada's history (like many countries that are commodity rich) is full of stories about big corp. (and a lot are US corp.) using Canada's resources (with some of the Canadian politicians looking on with full pockets). This is not so much about Canada, but about big corporations from many countries putting money into these projects (Shell is a Dutch company). THEY (and the politicians [and the people who voted for them]) are responsible for trying to push down out throat old technology and an old energy source that is detrimental to our planets and human beings. So, what about the US and China? It is all about money! It will continue to be until women and men re-evaluate their priorities. Women who choose men for how much money they have in their pockets! And men for choosing them!

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» RE: You want another ice age? Posted by: Cybershaman

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Nowhere to run
Posted by: Perry Logan on Dec 2, 2009 2:40 AM   
Current rating: 4    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
The recent incident with Amy Goodman was another warning sign.

If Canada has gone bad, we have nowhere to run.

The Merchant Who Thought He Was God, an allegory.

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» RE: Nowhere to run Posted by: CharlesRoland
» RE: Nowhere to run Posted by: djnoll
» RE: Nowhere to run Posted by: Cybershaman
» Dont run Stay Fight Posted by: PrinceRobert
» RE: Dont run Stay Fight Posted by: MT512
» RE: Dont run Stay Fight Posted by: davewuxi
» RE: Dont run Stay Fight Posted by: racetoinfinity
» RE: Nowhere to run Posted by: racetoinfinity

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Tar Sands Popularity Implicitly Confirms Peak Oil Reality
Posted by: duckpondpotter on Dec 2, 2009 2:51 AM   
Current rating: 4    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Excellent article. It's beginning to look as if Copenhagen will be yet one more wasteful rearranging of the deck chairs on man's voyage to the abyss. The fact that the emerging reality of Peak Oil is not openly discussed by most world governments is proof positive that the event is but a political charade. After all, the very reason the Tar sands are now such a hot commodity is that our supply of light crude is falling short of world demand. Unfortunately, our growing dependence on such dirty secondary sources of oil as the tar sands will only escalate climate change as they dramatically escalate the amount of hydrocarbons released in the extraction and refinement processes. It is estimated that 400% more hydrocarbons are released to process these sources than would be the case with conventional oil extraction. In addition, the energy intensive inputs required by these industries will put an even greater strain on world oil markets resulting in even higher prices at the pump. In the years to follow, man will again and again become a punching bag for the law of thermal dynamics.

Nick Friedman
Brevard, North Carolina

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No surprise
Posted by: rugby on Dec 2, 2009 3:17 AM   
Current rating: 4    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
People should not be surprised to read this. All power inevitably corrupts those that hold it and Canada's political class is no exception to the rule - an opportunity to get rich quick by a plutocratic political class cannot be passed over.

What needs to be understood is that this development is only possible because Canada, like its other western counterparts in North America and Europe, is not a democratic state -decisions are not being made by the people, but rather by a politburo, which includes party apparatchiks and corporate barons with the usual acquiescence of the commentariat. In the rare cases where the masses are allowed to voice their opinions, such as in the recent vote in Switzerland to ban minarets there is a huge backlash by the world’s do-gooders and power elite who want to overturn the decision because, well, democracy was never meant to be taken seriously…

The populations of Western countries have become, with a few exceptions here and there, completely apolitical and pacifistic over the last 40 years to the extent that there is nothing that the ruling elite can do, which will generate any meaningful opposition other than the occasional peaceful demonstration by warm and fussy left-liberal types who love the ephemeral afterglow of been associated with a peaceful voicing of objections to nefarious acts committed by their corrupt overloads.

What the masses fail to understand – which includes the vast majority of bloggers on this site- is that the democracy that they so ardently treasure, to the extent that they wish to export it to the less enlightened people of the world, is nothing more than a lie and fabrication, but just like lemmings they continue to turn up to polling booths year in, year out to cast their ‘vote’.

An intelligent 8 year old could not be that stupid.

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» What's to understand? Posted by: dcyalter
» RE: No surprise Posted by: cberkland
» RE: No surprise Posted by: rugby
» RE: No surprise Posted by: racetoinfinity
» RE: Nice rationalization... Posted by: Cybershaman

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Not so dirty
Posted by: handmjones on Dec 2, 2009 3:53 AM   
Current rating: 2    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Firstly, we have bred up the population to the point where we are eating energy. Cut off fossil fuels quickly and we starve. The high cost has already increased death due to starvation and suicide in India.
Secondly, the oil sands yield about 3 units of useable energy for every unit of input energy. The process is cleaner than corn based ethanol with less carbon dioxide to the atmosphere per unit of useable energy.
We need fossil fuels to see us through to the point where we cut the human population to the carrying capacity of Earth.
Hugh Jones Toronto Canada

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Save Canada From The Corporate Class
Posted by: InsertNameHere on Dec 2, 2009 3:57 AM   
Current rating: 4    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Yes, 'tis ashamedly true, we are currently under a Conservative government headed by Bush's old buddy, Stephen Harper. Who is doing everything he can to put everything up for sale.

The unfortunate thing about the oil in Alberta is that it doesn't matter what happens with any climate treaties anywhere, that oil is going to come out of the ground. There's too much money at stake now.

Oil companies from around the world are pouring money into it. It won't be stopped! Same goes for any oil, anywhere in the world. They don't care if they displace local people, level rainforests, or rip up conservation lands.

Blaming Canada is misleading, just like blaming any other country because the corporate class lose any pretense to nationalism when there is money at stake. They have no loyalties to this country or any other. They worship money at the altar of greed.

Our national policy is held hostage by the corporatocracy, and sadly, the opposition parties aren't much better.

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» RE: Scrutineers? Posted by: Cybershaman

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Go home George
Posted by: starsailor on Dec 2, 2009 4:03 AM   
Current rating: 2    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
» "ClimateGate" is a scam Posted by: bingahaba

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agreeable but overdramatic nonetheless
Posted by: majr17440 on Dec 2, 2009 4:27 AM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
The article makes a great case. Although this certainly is not the biggest obstacle to world peace by any means!

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COLD How to Stop the Planet From Freezing
Posted by: tony_opmoc on Dec 2, 2009 4:43 AM   
Current rating: 2    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
I have a lot of respect for Monbiot, particularly with regards to his Campaigns Against REAL Environmental Destruction. But he is a Zoologist. There is absolutely nothing wrong with that, and protection of Wildlife and the Wilderness that Wildlife inhabits is vitally important.

But Monbiot has been lied to - like we have all been lied to. If he had a PhD in Physics, he may have realised before now that he was being lied to.

The fact of the matter is that increased levels of CO2 in the atmosphere is Not harmful to life and does not cause Global Warming.

The vast majority of people who have been subjected to Global Warming propaganda for the last 20 years will take a long time to realise this Truth.

Once accepted, it makes World Government Policy a Complete Nonsense, because we are trying to stop something that is Benefical, and Not Harmful To All Life on Earth.

As regards to Monbiot's opposition to Development of Canadian Tar Sands, I am in Agreement with him. The risk of the most Apalling Environmental Destruction is Exceedingly High.

There are Far Better Alternatives with Regards to Energy Generation.

Unfortunately Wind and Solar and most Other Renewable Energies are NOT the Solution, because in most deployments they are Net Energy Sinks. Over the entire lifetime of such a project, the contribution from other conventional energy sources for such things as design, mining, refining, construction, maintenance, production and distribution is Greater than the energy such sources produce. They are therefore net energy sinks. You get less energy out than you put in. You have in effect wasted energy.

Unless you get the basic physics and maths correct, and start telling the truth, you will not solve any problems, but cause additional ones.

I won't go into solutions in this post, because the first basic point about increased CO2 levels not being a problem, must first be accepted.

However, if we do not find solutions that work, then Western Civilisation Really is Doomed.

I Personally am Convinced That Peak Oil is Yet Another Deception, but if it is True, then most of the Projections in dieoff.org will come true. They may come true anyway, because Policy Makers believe thay are true and plan accordingly.

The situation really is Dire, but mainly because ill-informed people in positions of power are making the wrong decisions because they are being fed lies.

A better book than George's new title that he hasn't written yet already exists...

"The Solar Fraud: Why Solar Energy Won't Run the World" By Dr. Howard C. Hayden
Emeritus Professor of Physics University of Connecticut"

Ignore Physics Professors at Your Peril, if you want to find the Truth.

Tony

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» RE: COLD How to Stop the Planet From Freezing Posted by: Fat Man at the Buffet Line
» I have a PhD from Bovine University Posted by: eddie torres

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O Hai Ther Guys!
Posted by: nen on Dec 2, 2009 4:52 AM   
Current rating: 4    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Didja notice us up here? Oh wow I feel special now. Big hulking landmass sitting right on top of ya and you don't even know the name of our capital city more often than not.

You Americans just roll over and go back to sleep now. Everything's alright. We're not gonna steal the credit for destroying the world *cough*war-on-terror*cough*.

Yeah, our Prime Minister is slimy moron. We have about as much say over what the Canadian oligarchy does as you did over Bush's antics. Y'all can stop yelling at us to change our leader's mind instantly. Wanna say something to Mr. Harper? Fine, aim your article at him, not the common man. Now, if you'll excuse me, we have to dig ourselves out of an economic crisis that SOMEONE went and got us into.

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» Nicely stated Posted by: rational_moderate
» RE: O Hai Ther Guys! Posted by: paulaH
» RE: O Hai Ther Guys! Posted by: djnoll
» RE: O Hai Ther Guys! Posted by: NorthernView
» RE: O Hai Ther Guys! Posted by: djnoll
» RE: O Hai Ther Guys! Posted by: Annarisse
» RE: O Hai Ther Guys! Posted by: paulaH
» RE: O Hai Ther Guys! Posted by: djnoll

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Quebec does what it can
Posted by: Caligulove on Dec 2, 2009 5:27 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
From environmentaldefence.ca:

Greenhouse gas emissions reduction targets
Quebec adopts the highest target on the continent
Montreal, November 23, 2009 – Premier Charest announced today Quebec's GHG reduction target: 20% below 1990 levels by 2020. Environmental Defence, Équiterre, David Suzuki Foundation, Pembina Institute and Vivre en ville note that this goal corresponds to that of the European Union and constitutes the most ambitious to date in North America. For the groups "with this objective, Quebec remains a leader in North America, which is all the more significant in face of the increasingly apparent inaction of the Canadian federal government, whose target is a mere minus 3%—the smallest of all industrialized countries".

"As science ask reductions between -25 % and -40 % below 1990 for 2020, we believe it's possible to go even further and do more in the current context. We will work with the Quebec government and the rest of civil society to suggest courses of action and additional measures to bolster Quebec’s objectives," they added.

Moreover, all the groups plan to collaborate fully toward the creation of the action plan that is expected to be completed in the coming months. Transportation, energy and land-use planning are the sectors requiring the most immediate intervention. In these areas, Quebec will have to perform an about-face and break with its traditional practices.

"Given that the transportation sector represents close to 40% of GHG emissions in Quebec, the first order of business will be to take the Turcot project back to the drawing board," affirmed groups from Quebec. As it exists right now, this project would see the addition of tens of thousands of vehicles on the Turcot interchange and an increase in traffic congestion on the island of Montreal. To live up to the progressive vision that the Quebec government presented us today, and to comply with the unanimous demand of the City of Montréal, we must completely rethink this project, notably by increasing and improving public transport infrastructure and reducing vehicle traffic on the city’s major routes.

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» RE: Quebec does what it can Posted by: dbaker

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So, you thought Canadians were environmentalists?
Posted by: PJAW on Dec 2, 2009 5:32 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
They may not be as rapacious as America (as a whole) but the only thing saving the envirnment thus far in Canada is the fact that there's a lot of land and not so many people.

That's not to point a finger at them, if the world is going to be led in the direction of environmental preservation, it's going to have to be done by the nation doing the greatest damage... The United States. And it must be done by example as much as directive.

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Physicist Howard Hayden’s one-letter disproof of global warming claims
Posted by: tony_opmoc on Dec 2, 2009 5:49 AM   
Current rating: 3    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
“People will do anything to save the world … except take a course in science.”

You need to use your mouse to find the pointer on the screen. The pointer is usually an arrow. If you move the mouse around on a firm surface, you should see the arrow on the screen move in the same direction the mouse moves. Position the arrow over the text that is highlighted - often blue, and it should become underlined when your arrow is over it. On many websites the underline works in reverse to that implemented here.

This is a link to contents you can read on a different website. Now find the left button on your mouse and press it. You should now be able to read the contents of the link. This may not always work. For example, connections to the other website may not be available - or there maybe errors in the link or the contents may have been deleted.

It just worked for me though.

Tony

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Results of corporate control of governments
Posted by: hilaryuk on Dec 2, 2009 6:05 AM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Like so many of the world's ills, the corruption of Canadian ideals is rooted in the fact that corporate organisations have bought up the levers of government. Western "democracy" is no longer government for the people by the people, it is for corporate capitalism by the tools of corporate capitalism. Globalised multi-national capitalism has bought us to this pass, and, unless we the people face up to the fact that the very system our media (corporate owned) lauds is destroying our lives and our childrens' future, things can only get worse. The western liberal democratic model is failing and we have a choice: mend it or accept the fact that not doing so will lead to full corporate dictatorship. Desperate people scurry for the illusion of salvation wherever it may lie - witness the rise of the Nazis in 1930's Germany.

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blah
Posted by: Richardsievert on Dec 2, 2009 6:10 AM   
Current rating: 2    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
You stupid Gehenna, Monkey's The world is not threatened by global warming it is threatened by war for oil.
By bomb's and real "Monstrous disasters us'
Our pit bull, Out of control military that's what the problem is. The United Stated of take over the world is a problem' So stick your global Nobel mouths where the sun don't shine and get them under control now.

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» RE: blah Posted by: hilaryuk

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World Peace and Oxymoron
Posted by: sayward2 on Dec 2, 2009 6:34 AM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Canada is no threat to world peace but it is to its own people( I am one of them). No wealthy country should have people starve or go cold in the winter. It is all about greed and more greed. The USA is the one that benefits from Canada's oil sands not Canadians. As for over fishing and logging let us just say not enough future thought went into their plans( or any country's plans). No one seems to want to plan ahead just give me the loonie or the buck or the yen or the rupee...

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Pulling out of Kyoto
Posted by: earth_saver on Dec 2, 2009 6:37 AM   
Current rating: 3    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Bad-mouthing Canada for pulling out of the Kyoto agreement is a bit harsh. At least they had the balls to step up and admit they were not going to meet their targets. No other country signed on to the agreement will meet their targets either - so other nations saying they are still following the agreement is nonsense. I am quite certain no other Kyoto signee will agree to sanctions after 2012 and the numbers show they haven't met what they agreed to meet.

If you want to bad-mouth Canada for destroying a huge chunk of beautiful Alberta wilderness that makes sense but don't demonize them for not accomplishing something that no other nation is going to accomplish either.

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I'm a Canadian and this makes me sick
Posted by: dongarb on Dec 2, 2009 6:41 AM   
Current rating: 4    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
When our conservative Prime Saboteur, Darth Harper first began licking US and corporate ass, he found it tasted good and he's been tonguing at that trough ever since. Meanwhile, the psychopathic billionaire class realized that they had sucked all the easy blood out of the American populace, and that America was now just a drained corpse that had not yet fallen down dead.

So of course, they focused on Canada, as the next place to realize their psychopathic agenda, which is to bring back the dark ages by crashing the world's environment. They think it's better to own all of a broken legged horse that vomits up blood than to have to share ownership of a healthy horse with those who are not in on their game.

The world has been hijacked by these inhuman con men, and the fact that they are operating so unabashedly out in the open, something that is against their nature, is not a good sign for us.

Great article George, keep sounding the alarm, because the Canadian people are awake and listening. Soon there will come a great rain that will wash all the scum away.

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Alternet is a joke
Posted by: ailiergauche on Dec 2, 2009 6:46 AM   
Current rating: 3    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
They didn't even report that Phil Jones stepped down. Now they're demonizing Canadians for trying to meet their current energy needs.

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» RE: Alternet is a joke Posted by: reelectnoone

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I think the root of the problem up here...
Posted by: CanuckKid on Dec 2, 2009 6:54 AM   
Current rating: 4    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
...lies in the man who we elected to lead us - so in that sense, Canada in general is to blame.

Unfortunately, the alternatives to Stephen Harper weren't (and still arent) very good....

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How come Canada doesn't do hempseed oil in leiu of petro?
Posted by: Todd McClintock on Dec 2, 2009 6:59 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Save the environment and the economy with hemp. How bad can that be?

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Who are the customers?
Posted by: reelectnoone on Dec 2, 2009 6:59 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
And who will Canada be selling all this oil to? The USA and China no doubt.

Greed has no boundary or borders. Greed will sell out it's own mother if the price is right.

Greed has apparently bought the Canadian government just as it has the US Government.

Lest we pray for this to end, remember Greed also owns all the churches as well.

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Canadian technological progress: shovel.
Posted by: kedikat on Dec 2, 2009 7:21 AM   
Current rating: 4    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
A dollar or a vote today is worth being poor, hungry and freezing in the dark tomorrow.
Canada has narrowed it's only means of wealth and work to selling mostly non renewable resources. The tar sands is a literal scrapping of the bottom of the barrel. But it is just one aspect of a doomed economic model.

Being heavily owned and controlled by foreign interests, even the profit is shipped out. Alaska gets more per barrel for it's oil from the US than we do.

Raw resource selling provides a limited job base. When the customer's economy gets bad, even those jobs disappear. And a lot of customers economies are going to get very bad.

Soon we will export less, and have no industry to create the things we need. A situation many countries are getting to.

People with vision and common sense about the future are marginalized. The quick fix and quick buck get made. The resources dwindle, our Neros fiddle.

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No measurable benefit.
Posted by: franklyspanking on Dec 2, 2009 7:31 AM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Perhaps they began analyzing science and doing "the maths" rather than blindly following the new religion?

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» RE: No measurable benefit. Posted by: tony_opmoc
» RE: No measurable benefit. Posted by: NorthernView

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Canada isn't perfect
Posted by: Old Skeptic on Dec 2, 2009 7:51 AM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Maybe we expect too much from our neighbors. How can any country that murders hundreds of thousands of baby seals every year be considered a bastion of environmental ethics? The same sort of oligarchs that infest the US also slither into every other nation to devastate their resources. When I consider the effect corporate greed has on our beautiful planet, I wish that I could believe in an afterlife so I could wish them all in hell!

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A question for the author George Monbiot
Posted by: pg on Dec 2, 2009 8:22 AM   
Current rating: 3    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
November 25th on your own blog at the guardian.co.uk you wrote the following...

"Pretending the climate email leak isn't a crisis won't make it go away."

You lamely spin a story that the warming deniers lies are worse than the scientists lies and deceit even while acknowledging the science has let you down.

"No one has been as badly let down by the revelations in these emails as those of us who have championed the science."

I have no problem arguing against any industrial process that destroys forests and pollutes rivers and ground water and applaud any effort to expose it but how can you use the same article to argue for enforcement of Kyoto and successful talks at Copenhagen without demanding a full investigation and review of the science and the three main scientists that drove the IPCC reports that the climate treaties past and future are and will be based on?

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How to make the tar sands irrelevant
Posted by: chaoslegs on Dec 2, 2009 8:43 AM   
Current rating: 4    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Low oil prices, if the cost of oil is low, then the development won't be economically viable. All extractive industries are based on them being economically viable, so if it is too expensive to extract/refine then they won't do it.

I think alternative energy sources and high taxes on gas may help keep prices lower.

As others wrote, I don't think this is the greatest threat to world peace, but to world livability--maybe.

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Please...Blame Canada!
Posted by: potvin on Dec 2, 2009 8:50 AM   
Current rating: 2    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
If anything that Moonbat has written about Canada is true then how wonderful. I couldn't be prouder of my government standing up against the liars and frauds that is the global warming movement. Nice to know that Canadians can still smell the BS in these politically correct times. Thanks to the lame stream media many have not yet heard of Climategate but hopefully in the days to come this Global swindle will become more widely disseminated.

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The real situation...
Posted by: Prinzowhales on Dec 2, 2009 8:56 AM   
Current rating: 3    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
There are those who like to link sound ecology with the lie of global warming and the nonsense of CO2's danger...and, as we see with CLIMATEGATE, they have only succeeded in damaging the fight for a cleaner planet and forwarding the cause of expanding dirty energy production. By jumping on Gore's global warming bandwagon, they have made themselves fools and are now loathe to admit it...first, they cast about and found "climate change" to substitute for the fraud of "global warming"...now, they are trying to argue that the carbon taxes and carbon trading should be justified on the basis of general ecology... the only constant in this avalanche of lies is the tax and trading scam--the heart of the Gore Climate Charade.

WE NEED NONE OF IT! For clean air, water and energy...we need not taxes and trading scams... but, solar power, water power and wind power...we need LEDs and energy efficiency...we need mass transit and electric cars...efficient design of communities....

Copenhagen gives us none of this...it is a meeting of the Masters of the Universe, their academic trollops and bought dog media to broadcast with extreme unction the burbling promises of a 'green' future...with the fools thinking ecology and the financiers thinking the color of money as it dances out of your pockets and into their hoards.

It is time to put people to work building a greener future for themselves...not to move pollution from one locale to another...spreading poison while burying it in the kind of pseudo-scientific clap trap that they have used to promote a warming planet in the face of global cooling.

The gathering of weasels at Copenhagen soon to take place is part and parcel of the problem...their wealth and power rests on poison and lies...It is time for real change, not the ersatz presented to us by the Demopublican filth, their Corporatist masters and their internationalist associates.

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Canadian Politics: A Primer
Posted by: dodgy69 on Dec 2, 2009 9:44 AM   
Current rating: 4    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Conservative Party PM Stephen Harper's right-wing nutjobs have been running the country since 2006, mostly due to the complete lack of credible leadership alternatives from amongst the opposition parties.

The Conservative Party is your typical band of neocon pro-corporate, pro-free market capitalism zealots.

Their power base is Alberta, aka "Texas North."

The tar sands are Alberta's gravy train.

Greenhouse reduction targets threaten to reduce the profitability of the oil companies and, by extension, the Alberta economy.

Any questions?

Signed,
An ashamed Canadian.

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» That pretty much sums it up. Posted by: CanuckKid

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Harper plays the villain so Americans can keep driving.
Posted by: dr421 on Dec 2, 2009 9:49 AM   
Current rating: 2    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
The fuel from the tar sands is much more expensive than conventional oil. Tar sands fuel was not developed until a shortage of conventional oil drove up prices. The US needs this fuel, and turning off the tap would inflict massive harm upon a US economy already damaged by Wall Street insanity. Would Washington tolerate cuts to tar sands production?

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Monboit sometimes at least stands for moonbat..
Posted by: Smartcookie on Dec 2, 2009 10:00 AM   
Current rating: 4    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
I'll have you know that the corporate takeover of canada was NOT sanctioned by it's citizens.

Everything that is happening in canada is because of US corporate and US foreign policy meddling in our politics and because we have a Palin/McCain conservative christian crowd up here in Canada. Most of our homegrown corporations and assets were sold off to foreigners for pennies on the dollar, many previously state owned enterprizes were privatized.

The fact is harper won only because Canadians themselves have been dumbed down by media and the education system, many young canadians are apathetic, and we have the worst voter turnout in years because the government is bought and sold by the highest bidder and the fact that public opinion is so manipulated and the lack of public will to change the system we now have in place, people around the world, US, canada, doesn't matter where you live - are too complacent, making endless excuses why they won't just cause serious mischief and rally behind a cause and get things one... we are now living in the "whats in it for me" generation and the future be damned.

When I went to school there were no civic's classes on how to be a good citzen or be involved in politics and government policy, and I'm only in my early 30's.

The big reason Harper is in government is because of Big Oil, Canada is the safest place to invest in the worlds future energy needs. This is why the government is so anti-environment, it's been taken over by mult-national energy interests.

The man acts like we have a choice, our parliament system is broken, and was invented in an age of farmers and when the bulk of the population was fairly uneducated, all government models in existence today were designed for a bygone age.

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Conservatives in Canada
Posted by: carrotwax on Dec 2, 2009 10:03 AM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
The conservatives in Canada are the same neocons. The irony is that Canadians very liked them enough to give them a majority. But all the rest of the parties are so split that they are afraid of an election now.

Yes, Canada's government has gone more right wing, more Bush-like. I don't think that's how Canadians are; it's more like Canadians just have gotten more apatheic about it because there's a real perception about how little a vote matters now. That's where real grassroots movement and community building can come in.

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» They Don't Have A Majority Posted by: InsertNameHere
» RE: Conservatives in Canada Posted by: can-lizzy

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Neocon virus
Posted by: willymack on Dec 2, 2009 10:26 AM   
Current rating: 4    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
The same virulent, brain eating pathogen that produced the bushes, cheneys, roves, and other trash has wafted up north to infect a formerly decent and caring nation.
This virus is like the Terminator. It has no heart, no compassion, no moral or ethical scruples, and can NEVER be reasoned with. Ever.
Its ONLY function is to destroy everything good and decent, extract all the wealth from the land, regardless of how ghastly the consequences may be, and move on to its next victim.
We need to find a good vaccine before it's too late.

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Canada's Dirty Oil and the Canada - U.S. Free Trade Agreement
Posted by: Maria B. on Dec 2, 2009 11:56 AM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Why is everyone so surprised?

Under the Canada - U.S. Free Trade Agreement (1989) there are "sleeper" clauses that are truly ominous, such as - Canada must supply the U.S. with its energy needs even if Canada runs short.

Let us not forget that it was at the expense of my country (Canada) in which the plot for globalization was hatched.

We must relentlessly publicize the details of this agreement, which many Canadians still to this day do not understand the ramifications of or even remember.

We must also pick apart and publicize the NAFTA (North American Free Trade Agreement)between the U.S., Canada and Mexico.

So, Stephen Harper being the good son of an Imperial Oil executive is obediently and enthusiastically fulfilling the Canada - U.S. Free Trade Agreement.

The problem with Canada is that 15 million people did not vote in the last federal election in the fall of 2008.

They were more concerned with what was happening south of the border - the election campaign of the 44th U.S. president - hoping for Barack Hussein Obama.

It's sad that Canadians think that they don't matter and therefore they didn't vote.

But hopefully that will teach them a lesson about whining why everything gets worse or stays the same.

Beliefs are stronger than prison bars.

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No george say it ain't so...
Posted by: DaBear on Dec 2, 2009 12:20 PM   
Current rating: 1    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
I was gonna think of that ole Xtian folktale about the logs in yer own eyes and all that shit but I guess the UK is the paragon of virtue but for their climate deniers and such...

Canada, huh? Damn. Kick us even further down when we already got our noses mashed into the dirt by 'Bombarama Bush III.

Mebbe Canadia just needs a Nobel peace prize winner like our illustrious Mister-O, the now great Warlord in Chief over all the 'Stans.

This "article" was just too god damned funny... satire and parody right, G?

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d baker
Posted by: dbaker on Dec 2, 2009 12:31 PM   
Current rating: 1    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
International Criminal Court
Information and Evidence Unit
Office of the Prosecutor
Post Office Box 19519
2500 CM The Hague
The Netherlands
otp.informationdesk@icc-cpi.int
21/07/2009
Dennis Baker
103-66 Duncan avenue west
penticton bc canada V2A6Z3
778-476-3673
dennisbaker2003@hotmail.com
RE: genocide complaint against RCMP Myhers and others
Dear Office of the Prosecutor
The Globe and Mail newspaper Mon, Jun 1, 2009
Climate-change disasters kill 300,000 a year
 
I am to held under house arrest for one year awaiting a preliminary hearing on the drugs RCMP Myhers planted to prevent my running in an Provincial election against BC Speaker of the House Bill Barisoff.

The lawyer quit when I refused to relinquish my right to ask questions of Police.
The solution to climate change.
( human excrement + nuclear waste = hydrogen )
The USA discharges Trillions of tons of sewage annually, sufficient quantity to sustain electrical generation requirements of the USA.
Redirecting existing sewage systems to containment facilities would be a considerable infrastructure modification project.
It is the intense radiation that causes the conversion of organic material into hydrogen, therefore what some would consider the most dangerous waste because of its radiation would be the best for this utilization.
I believe the combination of clean water and clean air, will increase the life expectance of humans.
 
 
 
 
Since these actions will prevent any forward movement on my solution to climate change, for at least one year, and 300,000 additional deaths can be directly attributed to this, is it possible to have Myhres ( and others) held accountable in your court as the RCMP are never held accountable in Canada?
yours sincerely
Dennis Baker
----- ----- ----- -----
International Criminal Court
Information and Evidence Unit
Office of the Prosecutor
Post Office Box 19519
2500 CM The Hague
The Netherlands
otp.informationdesk@icc-cpi.int



On October 6 2009 I sent two emails to your office: subject More Evidence 1 and More Evidence 2.
The next day the same RCMP in the original complaint did the same thing, only this time a search warrant was executed on my home to facilitate the theft of documentation related to RCMP wrongdoing and my solution to climate change.
I was held for two weeks in solitary confinement 24/7. No shower and no fresh air exercise as required by international law.
Bright lights were on in my cell 24/7 and every time I went to sleep RCMP slammed doors and other things to ensure sleep deprivation.
Every 3 or 4 days I was dragged into court without access to the documentation of the charges against me. The judges demanding that I proceed anyway.
I finally received the documentation and found 20 were illegible and I suspect therefore "secret".
Right now I am in a Regional Jail, Inmate # 03520244
KRCC, Kamloops BC V2C 5M9
My bail hearing is November 18 2009 in Penticton BC.
I have evidence of perjury on these charges by RCMP Livingstone but the court refuses to hear this prior to trial. Which means another 600,000 are to die before I will be found innocent at trial.
Yours Sincerely,
Dennis Baker

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Incensed expat_scientist
Posted by: smalldave on Dec 2, 2009 2:27 PM   
Current rating: 3    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
This is the dumbest article that Moonbat has ever written. The tar sands are an environmental disaster because they threaten one of the world's largest sources of fresh water, not because of climate change. It is well beyond my grasp as to why anyone thinks climate change is a bigger threat to the world than nuclear proliferation, degradation of fresh water supplies, the global arms race that fuels never ending war, etc. I too moved to Canada from the U.S. (please don't make me go back). Anyone who thinks Canada is threat to the world should not be taken seriously. File this article in the trash with this guy's recent defense of global warming scientists who fake data. Oh, by the way, I'm an environmental scientist who moved to Canada to live among the most peaceful and educated people in the world. The world needs more Canada and less U.S. and Great Britain.

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» RE: Incensed expat_scientist Posted by: Elixabeth

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Canada bashing seems to be the new thing these days...
Posted by: Bearzerker on Dec 2, 2009 2:48 PM   
Current rating: 3    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Whats rarely mentioned is that the main reason for C02 spikes is the amount of damage overpopulation and greed is causing to the worlds rainforests and flora which are the worlds lungs & spunges for water retention... we need to realize we have water issues which go hand in hand with C02 as well...

Canada isnt the problem and mining butimen deposits in Fort McMurry isnt the doom and gloom when compared to what will happen if we rely on other nations to supply petroleum to the largest economy in the world.

Canda just locked the entire Borel Forest from developement from coast to coast protecting forever this ecosystem's footprint in maintaining CO2 absorbtion... thats a rather HUGE commitment but you dont hear a word of that here or anywhere else.

Copenhaghen summit is off balance on where we need to be to address global C02 concerns...

Finally, why is the north polar cap shrinking while the south polar cap is growing

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Tar sands? Really? Tar sands now.
Posted by: McGovern72! on Dec 2, 2009 4:16 PM   
Current rating: 4    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Of all the things to get your blood pressure up over. What are you going to do when we have a President who decides to mine the coal in the western deserts on federal lands, or we decide to get our shale oil converted? Orwhen we open ten new coal-fired electrical plants in the Appalachians, or mimic the French with a boom in nuclear energy?

I am sure you're not driving in a full-size car and only using your Prius when you simply have to. lol

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NONSENSE!
Posted by: IwillIwill on Dec 2, 2009 4:50 PM   
Current rating: 3    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
This person and this "article" are totally full of crap. This creep has attacked me--you will probably not show my post which shows that you are just as bad at warping the truth as those you criticize.

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Never trust a good reputation...
Posted by: Elixabeth on Dec 2, 2009 6:16 PM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
The absence of information is not the same as a clean record. In some ways I trust US system better, because we hold politicians in fear of their jobs (occasionally when we pay attention). There are a lot of freedom of information requests. We also air a lot more dirty laundry, which can be bad for our reputation and undiplomatic, but it does let us know better what is going on.

Canada is an oil country. We are a big oil market and we get the most oil from Canada of any country. While Saudi Arabia has allowed itself to be tarnished by its exploits as an oil nation, we get almost twice as much patroleum from Canada and no one even knows about it... sneaky huh?

Crude Oil and Total Petroleum Imports Top 15 Countries

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Why are people surprised?
Posted by: Dyolfknip on Dec 2, 2009 6:16 PM   
Current rating: 4    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
This post is not about the oilsands and environmental issues but of Canada's national image.

I am a Canadian expat living in China and being an avid history/sociology/poly sci student I am always shocked when people tell me what a great country Canada is.

In terms of moral duplicity Canada (in my opinion) falls somewhere between deceatful and treacherous. My country has covered up every dirty secret and questionable action of it's history with a disneyfied global image of hockey, mounties, and the "great white north". Canada's list of social ills is as long as it is broad and often (as this article mentions) affects those who do not share a European ethnicity (native North Americans and Chinese are the prime targets). If America has a prison problem with the majority of encarcerated individuals being of African origin than Canada has the same "problem" with the Native population (who are the filler in our prison system). There are native communities across Canada that are living at a "third world" development level and there is a widely held concensus that it is their own fault (much the same way that poor blacks in America are percieved to be blameworthy for their own socio-economic situation). The problem is not just domestic either... Many people observe that because my hometown (Vancouver) has so many Asian people that it is a sign of Canada's acceptance of other cultures, however, if you are not extremely wealthy you will have a very hard time coming to Canada (especially true for Chinese). I have many Chinese friends who have been denied tourist visas merely because they are not millionaires and they are Chinese, However, my Japanese friends have no problem.

Many Canadians embody a form of elitest racism that portrays acceptence of others ideals while in reality scorning everything different from it's own percieved cultural ideals. The statement "I believe everyone has the right to do things their own way but I wouldn't be caught dead in that sickening dirty little backward country", is a common sentiment. I have heard this sickening doubletalk so many times from Canadians and it makes me embarrassed every time. But the worst facet of the Canadian method of governence is this: We do everything that the other oppressive "first world" nations do but we hide it and act like it isn't there. We are one of the polluting, warwaging, elitest, plutocratic, economic imperialist group of European decended capitalist nations, and yet, everyone thinks we are just peachy. It is a testement to the Canadian government's propaganda machine. We participate in almost every questionable venture that the corptocracy to the south does but we hide behind their much larger social ills so that ours appear small or non-existent. It is a terrible irony that Canadians will describe themselves as "not American" while we are direct benificiaries of (and participants in) the uncaring brutal system of American style milataristic capitalism.

...and no, this is not just because of the Harper government similar to how America's sickness is not just the result of Reagan or the Bushes.

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Hyperbole mixed in with a few good points
Posted by: dayahka on Dec 2, 2009 6:35 PM   
Current rating: 3    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Yet another instance of oneupmanship in the hyperbole game--to see who can come up with the most outrageous exaggeration yet. Please!

First, you're right that Canada is no longer the Canada of old, the Canada of propaganda. It's Gestapo border police are a match for any in the third world.

Second, yes, they're strip-mining an entire province for a few pieces of silver.

But, third, they're not doing it primarily because of Canadian will--or lack of it--but because whatever big brother down south wants, big brother gets, and it's big brother that buys and gets most of the oil produced in Alberta, and by agreement, US demand for oil comes before local demand and need. So, please, put the blame where it belongs.

And, fourth, yes, we do need to rid ourselves of the filth of oil, but to do so on the basis of a scam like anthropogenic global warming is as bad as the problem. So, Copenhagen should fail, hopefully will fail, and not because of Canada, but because the rest of the world sees through the gigantic fraud of cap-and-trade.

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» satire... very convincing... Posted by: Bearzerker

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dennis baker canadian
Posted by: dbaker on Dec 2, 2009 9:09 PM   
Current rating: 1    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Dennis Earl Baker

103 - 66 Duncan avenue west

Penticton British Columbia V2A6Z3

Phone/Fax 778-476-3673

25/11/2009

The Copenhagen Diagnosis, 2009: Updating the world on the Latest Climate Science. Has again indicated urgency in action is imperative. Here's my solution and immediate areas of impact.
dennisbaker2003@hotmail.com
RE : The solution to climate change.
( human excrement + nuclear waste = hydrogen )
The USA discharges Trillions of tons of sewage annually, sufficient quantity to sustain electrical generation requirements of the USA.
Redirecting existing sewage systems to containment facilities would be a considerable infrastructure modification project.
It is the intense radiation that causes the conversion of organic material into hydrogen, therefore what some would consider the most dangerous waste because of its radiation would be the best for this utilization.
I believe the combination of clean water and clean air, will increase the life expectancy of humans.
The four main areas of concern globally are energy, food,water and air!
The radiologic decomposing of organic materials generates Hydrogen
By using our sewage as a source of energy we also get clean air , clean water, and no ethanol use of food stocks. Eat food first, create energy after.
Simply replacing the fossil fuel powered electrical generating facilities with these plants, would reduce CO2 emissions, and CH4 emissions, to acceptable levels, globally.
This would require a completely new reactor facility capable of converting human waste into hydrogen and then burning the hydrogen to generate electricity on site.
This solution is sellable to citizens because of all the side issue solutions. I've been able to convince most simply with concept of using nuclear waste to a productive end.
Superbugs ( antibiotic resistant ) apparently are created in the waters sewage is discharged into, which is one more side issue solution.
Anything not converting into hydrogen will potentially be disposed of using Transmutation.
The water emitted from hydrogen burning will have uses in leaching heavy metals from other contaminated site clean ups.
I thank you for your consideration, please feel free to contact me anytime.
Dennis Baker

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Kyoto
Posted by: InsertNameHere on Dec 2, 2009 11:22 PM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Our previous Prime Minister ratified the agreement, then Harper came in and basically said 'No, we're making a made in Canada approach' and proceeded to rip everything else up.

Guess who he borrowed his policy from? The Bush Admin.

The video mentions that the Tar Sands violate Kyoto, and yes, I'm sure they do. Just a minor point though, the US basically refused to even sign it in the first place.

Pointing fingers at countries is pointless. The people in charge have no loyalty to their country. It doesn't matter where they are from, they care only about selling public infrastructure to private industry with a license to pollute at will.

It happens everywhere, these global warming treaties are nothing but hot air, bad pun. Distractions to disguise the fact that governments aren't actually doing anything.

Look at this cap and trade thing. It will be the next financial bubble, and in the end we will find out that emissions don't go down. Look who is designing the system. The same crooks and liars who created the last meltdown. The next melt down will be bigger and more literal.

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Kyoto
Posted by: InsertNameHere on Dec 2, 2009 11:24 PM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Our previous Prime Minister ratified the agreement, then Harper came in and basically said 'No, we're making a made in Canada approach' and proceeded to rip everything else up.

Guess who he borrowed his policy from? The Bush Admin.

The video mentions that the Tar Sands violate Kyoto, and yes, I'm sure they do. Just a minor point though, the US basically refused to even sign it in the first place.

Pointing fingers at countries is pointless. The people in charge have no loyalty to their country. It doesn't matter where they are from, they care only about selling public infrastructure to private industry with a license to pollute at will.

It happens everywhere, these global warming treaties are nothing but hot air, bad pun. Distractions to disguise the fact that governments aren't actually doing anything.

Look at this cap and trade thing. It will be the next financial bubble, and in the end we will find out that emissions don't go down. Look who is designing the system. The same crooks and liars who created the last meltdown. The next melt down will be bigger and more literal.

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This logic doesn't wash
Posted by: Ruler4You on Dec 3, 2009 8:06 AM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
The Greatest Threat to World Peace is Canada vacating it's support of Kyoto?

All I can say is the left almost always has to resort to scare tactics in it's rhetoric instead of facts and reason. It's a huge leap to conclude from this article that world peace is in jeopardy because of failure to comply with a treaty that no one is complying with in the first place.

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Bill from AR.
Posted by: joQQeb on Dec 3, 2009 8:32 AM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
"By demonstrating that climate sanctions aren’t worth the paper they’re written on, it threatens to render any treaty struck at Copenhagen void."

It's only fair: According to the recent email release from England's premire climate change institute, all the data regarding 'global climate change' isn't worth the paper its printed on either.

Why would the US, Canada, or any other industrialized country for that matter, want to cripple its industry, impoverish its people, and transfer a good chunk of its wealth to a series of pre-industrialized countries over fraudulant science?

You really want to see all countries prosper; then mandate democracy, rule of law, and property rights instead of mandating hundreds of billions of dollars of wealth transfers. It's not going to do all those impoverished South Africans any good to send them billions of dollars if they don't have the necessary energy to boil their water before they drink it. How many tens of millions of them would die before we could transfer enough wealth to that country so it could build a 'green' power grid?

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RE: I found a great Ugg boots discount sale site,they sale genuine sheepskin
Posted by: racetoinfinity on Dec 5, 2009 1:33 PM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
SPAM

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FORMER ROYALIST HAVE NO SHAME
Posted by: YANIRA06_66 on Dec 3, 2009 8:30 PM   
Current rating: 3    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Aren't Canadians former U.S. Colonialist that abandoned America after the Declaration of Independence? Surely, we don't have high hopes they will keep their word or commitments?

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» Satire yet again... oh my Posted by: Bearzerker

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Our environment
Posted by: medstore on Dec 5, 2009 9:26 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
They may not be as rapacious as America (as a whole) but the only thing saving the environment thus far in Canada is the fact that there's a lot of land and not so many people.

That's not to point a finger at them, if the world is going to be led in the direction of environmental preservation, it's going to have to be done by the nation doing the greatest damage... The United States. And it must be done by example as much as directive.
Medstore USA
Herbal diet
Anti flu
Stop Smoking
Pet remedies

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its just a really dumb article... lets blame Canada for global warming...
Posted by: Bearzerker on Dec 6, 2009 12:46 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
... by labeling the Tar Sands as the worst of the worst and for our reluctance to accept a global fiasco called the "Copenhagen Summit".
This just shows the weakness of the opposition in producing and presenting an alternative counter-plan to the cap and trade disaster currently making the rounds.

It's just so noisy with all the fluff circulating that people dont seriously realize that enforcing cap and trade wouldnt address the economic degradation we're currently struggling with, and would actually make matters worse... just imagine a world with no capacity or abilities to provide the resources to try and deal with the real problems. For example, exploding world population centers spinning into chaos and lawlessness, outwardly magnifying the effects of greed and graft globally while ignoring the needs of food shelter and clothing to a global population base that bursting at the seams.

I agree that Industrial pollution is a problem... and that CO2 emmisions are a very serious Global concern but to hold Industry as soley responsible is rather simplistic & timorous...
Greed is something we could place the blame on but greed isn't the domain of industry alone,
so lets not visit that bastion till we better understand it.
If we [collectivly] could just use some common sence on this people would realize the true nature of the problem we are all facing.
Just do a search on Google Earth. and look for yourselves.
Look at how dry and brown the planet is becoming...
where are all the forests?
why is the Sahara so big now?
where are all of Gaea's carbon & water syncs and why arent they funtioning to full capacity?
where are all the fish? [just think human activity for these global declines]

For me, pollution is more about poisoning the environment then in heightened C02 emmisions.
We need to recognize and stabilze Gaea's natural carbon syncs in order seriously reduce the C02 footprint humanity is producing through its enviromental neglect, but we need to eliminate all poisons being released into local environments by industry.

But first and foremost we need to deal with global overpopulation.
We need to stabalize High-density global population centers through planned parenthood and we "MUST STOP" religion from interferring in the medical needs and rights of women.
We must recognize the legality and the necessity of womens basic rights to their bodies.
for me the fight over a womens reproductive rights is a no brainer.

We've let the children play too long on this file its time to let the adults do some of the heavy lifting...
The adults need to take over the debate and efficiently organize us so we can reverse the horrors that over population and underplanning has done to nature...
Gaea & Chronos are the keys to success

Its not gunna get any better folks until we get all our hens in line.

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Kyoto Protocol?
Posted by: hdconverter on Dec 7, 2009 7:20 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
We all know that the Kyoto Protocol is an international agreement linked to the United Nations Framework Convention on Climate Change. The major feature of the Kyoto Protocol is that it sets binding targets for 37 industrialized countries and the European community for reducing greenhouse gas (GHG) emissions .These amount to an average of five per cent against 1990 levels over the five-year period 2008-2012.

The major distinction between the Protocol and the Convention is that while the Convention encouraged industrialised countries to stabilize GHG emissions, the Protocol commits them to do so. HD to SD and Convert HD to SD

Recognizing that developed countries are principally responsible for the current high levels of GHG emissions in the atmosphere as a result of more than 150 years of industrial activity, the Protocol places a heavier burden on developed nations under the principle of “common but differentiated responsibilities.”

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ffew
Posted by: dewre on Dec 7, 2009 7:53 AM   
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This is very good news was well informed that the followers of the issue I am. Thanks...
Rip BD

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ed hardy
Posted by: mxcm428 on Dec 22, 2009 4:49 PM   
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Alternet Comments:

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Canada sinks to world lows
Posted by: unblocktheplanet on Dec 2, 2009 2:00 AM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
I have just been reading the book, GREENPEACE, by Rex Weyler. It made me feel proud that unprecedented numbers of Canadians actively opposed nuclear testing and the war in Vietnam.

I was born in the US and turned my back on its warmongering by moving to Canada in 1968. Canada gave refuge to more than 150,000 American war resisters. We saw govt give more than lip-service to freedom.

The world has been blinded by the excesses of the Bush years in the US. What we didn't notice was the fact that Canada grew ever more repressive.

Canadian borders guards now dress and act like storm troopers, far in excess of the US' Homeland Security, TSA and Customs. We've all heard about laptop security when entering the US. As an activist, my laptop has been seized twice on entering, you guessed it: Canada.

A despotic, self-serving govt cannot exist without the acquiescence of its citizens. Democracy is something to be seized, not something we vote for. If voting could change anything, it would be illegal.

I miss the Canadian image as the world's Dudley Do-Right and I am ashamed to be a Canadian.

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» RE: Canada sinks to world lows Posted by: AMERICAN VETERAN
» RE: Canada sinks to world lows Posted by: Don Quixot

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Canada? What about China? India? And the US?
Posted by: peteralter on Dec 2, 2009 2:26 AM   
Current rating: 3    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
While the author makes a lot of great points, to focus the issue just on Canada is a bit too sensationalist! While it is true that the Cons, Harper, and the lobbyists are sociopaths and greedy ones at that, there are many other greedy sociopaths around. And, that is the dilemma we face. It feels like we are one cop fighting the whole Italian mafia! The incentives from big corporations to use green technology has been lagging to say the least, but then what would you do if you had oil, coal, and gas like we do in Canada. Why would you build watches when you can cheaply export the material needed to make them. Europe did not have that and, so, it made sense to look for alternative energy sources. Canada's history (like many countries that are commodity rich) is full of stories about big corp. (and a lot are US corp.) using Canada's resources (with some of the Canadian politicians looking on with full pockets). This is not so much about Canada, but about big corporations from many countries putting money into these projects (Shell is a Dutch company). THEY (and the politicians [and the people who voted for them]) are responsible for trying to push down out throat old technology and an old energy source that is detrimental to our planets and human beings. So, what about the US and China? It is all about money! It will continue to be until women and men re-evaluate their priorities. Women who choose men for how much money they have in their pockets! And men for choosing them!

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» RE: You want another ice age? Posted by: Cybershaman

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Nowhere to run
Posted by: Perry Logan on Dec 2, 2009 2:40 AM   
Current rating: 4    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
The recent incident with Amy Goodman was another warning sign.

If Canada has gone bad, we have nowhere to run.

The Merchant Who Thought He Was God, an allegory.

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» RE: Nowhere to run Posted by: CharlesRoland
» RE: Nowhere to run Posted by: djnoll
» RE: Nowhere to run Posted by: Cybershaman
» Dont run Stay Fight Posted by: PrinceRobert
» RE: Dont run Stay Fight Posted by: MT512
» RE: Dont run Stay Fight Posted by: davewuxi
» RE: Dont run Stay Fight Posted by: racetoinfinity
» RE: Nowhere to run Posted by: racetoinfinity

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Tar Sands Popularity Implicitly Confirms Peak Oil Reality
Posted by: duckpondpotter on Dec 2, 2009 2:51 AM   
Current rating: 4    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Excellent article. It's beginning to look as if Copenhagen will be yet one more wasteful rearranging of the deck chairs on man's voyage to the abyss. The fact that the emerging reality of Peak Oil is not openly discussed by most world governments is proof positive that the event is but a political charade. After all, the very reason the Tar sands are now such a hot commodity is that our supply of light crude is falling short of world demand. Unfortunately, our growing dependence on such dirty secondary sources of oil as the tar sands will only escalate climate change as they dramatically escalate the amount of hydrocarbons released in the extraction and refinement processes. It is estimated that 400% more hydrocarbons are released to process these sources than would be the case with conventional oil extraction. In addition, the energy intensive inputs required by these industries will put an even greater strain on world oil markets resulting in even higher prices at the pump. In the years to follow, man will again and again become a punching bag for the law of thermal dynamics.

Nick Friedman
Brevard, North Carolina

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No surprise
Posted by: rugby on Dec 2, 2009 3:17 AM   
Current rating: 4    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
People should not be surprised to read this. All power inevitably corrupts those that hold it and Canada's political class is no exception to the rule - an opportunity to get rich quick by a plutocratic political class cannot be passed over.

What needs to be understood is that this development is only possible because Canada, like its other western counterparts in North America and Europe, is not a democratic state -decisions are not being made by the people, but rather by a politburo, which includes party apparatchiks and corporate barons with the usual acquiescence of the commentariat. In the rare cases where the masses are allowed to voice their opinions, such as in the recent vote in Switzerland to ban minarets there is a huge backlash by the world’s do-gooders and power elite who want to overturn the decision because, well, democracy was never meant to be taken seriously…

The populations of Western countries have become, with a few exceptions here and there, completely apolitical and pacifistic over the last 40 years to the extent that there is nothing that the ruling elite can do, which will generate any meaningful opposition other than the occasional peaceful demonstration by warm and fussy left-liberal types who love the ephemeral afterglow of been associated with a peaceful voicing of objections to nefarious acts committed by their corrupt overloads.

What the masses fail to understand – which includes the vast majority of bloggers on this site- is that the democracy that they so ardently treasure, to the extent that they wish to export it to the less enlightened people of the world, is nothing more than a lie and fabrication, but just like lemmings they continue to turn up to polling booths year in, year out to cast their ‘vote’.

An intelligent 8 year old could not be that stupid.

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» What's to understand? Posted by: dcyalter
» RE: No surprise Posted by: cberkland
» RE: No surprise Posted by: rugby
» RE: No surprise Posted by: racetoinfinity
» RE: Nice rationalization... Posted by: Cybershaman

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Not so dirty
Posted by: handmjones on Dec 2, 2009 3:53 AM   
Current rating: 2    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Firstly, we have bred up the population to the point where we are eating energy. Cut off fossil fuels quickly and we starve. The high cost has already increased death due to starvation and suicide in India.
Secondly, the oil sands yield about 3 units of useable energy for every unit of input energy. The process is cleaner than corn based ethanol with less carbon dioxide to the atmosphere per unit of useable energy.
We need fossil fuels to see us through to the point where we cut the human population to the carrying capacity of Earth.
Hugh Jones Toronto Canada

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Save Canada From The Corporate Class
Posted by: InsertNameHere on Dec 2, 2009 3:57 AM   
Current rating: 4    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Yes, 'tis ashamedly true, we are currently under a Conservative government headed by Bush's old buddy, Stephen Harper. Who is doing everything he can to put everything up for sale.

The unfortunate thing about the oil in Alberta is that it doesn't matter what happens with any climate treaties anywhere, that oil is going to come out of the ground. There's too much money at stake now.

Oil companies from around the world are pouring money into it. It won't be stopped! Same goes for any oil, anywhere in the world. They don't care if they displace local people, level rainforests, or rip up conservation lands.

Blaming Canada is misleading, just like blaming any other country because the corporate class lose any pretense to nationalism when there is money at stake. They have no loyalties to this country or any other. They worship money at the altar of greed.

Our national policy is held hostage by the corporatocracy, and sadly, the opposition parties aren't much better.

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» RE: Scrutineers? Posted by: Cybershaman

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Go home George
Posted by: starsailor on Dec 2, 2009 4:03 AM   
Current rating: 2    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
» "ClimateGate" is a scam Posted by: bingahaba

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agreeable but overdramatic nonetheless
Posted by: majr17440 on Dec 2, 2009 4:27 AM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
The article makes a great case. Although this certainly is not the biggest obstacle to world peace by any means!

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COLD How to Stop the Planet From Freezing
Posted by: tony_opmoc on Dec 2, 2009 4:43 AM   
Current rating: 2    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
I have a lot of respect for Monbiot, particularly with regards to his Campaigns Against REAL Environmental Destruction. But he is a Zoologist. There is absolutely nothing wrong with that, and protection of Wildlife and the Wilderness that Wildlife inhabits is vitally important.

But Monbiot has been lied to - like we have all been lied to. If he had a PhD in Physics, he may have realised before now that he was being lied to.

The fact of the matter is that increased levels of CO2 in the atmosphere is Not harmful to life and does not cause Global Warming.

The vast majority of people who have been subjected to Global Warming propaganda for the last 20 years will take a long time to realise this Truth.

Once accepted, it makes World Government Policy a Complete Nonsense, because we are trying to stop something that is Benefical, and Not Harmful To All Life on Earth.

As regards to Monbiot's opposition to Development of Canadian Tar Sands, I am in Agreement with him. The risk of the most Apalling Environmental Destruction is Exceedingly High.

There are Far Better Alternatives with Regards to Energy Generation.

Unfortunately Wind and Solar and most Other Renewable Energies are NOT the Solution, because in most deployments they are Net Energy Sinks. Over the entire lifetime of such a project, the contribution from other conventional energy sources for such things as design, mining, refining, construction, maintenance, production and distribution is Greater than the energy such sources produce. They are therefore net energy sinks. You get less energy out than you put in. You have in effect wasted energy.

Unless you get the basic physics and maths correct, and start telling the truth, you will not solve any problems, but cause additional ones.

I won't go into solutions in this post, because the first basic point about increased CO2 levels not being a problem, must first be accepted.

However, if we do not find solutions that work, then Western Civilisation Really is Doomed.

I Personally am Convinced That Peak Oil is Yet Another Deception, but if it is True, then most of the Projections in dieoff.org will come true. They may come true anyway, because Policy Makers believe thay are true and plan accordingly.

The situation really is Dire, but mainly because ill-informed people in positions of power are making the wrong decisions because they are being fed lies.

A better book than George's new title that he hasn't written yet already exists...

"The Solar Fraud: Why Solar Energy Won't Run the World" By Dr. Howard C. Hayden
Emeritus Professor of Physics University of Connecticut"

Ignore Physics Professors at Your Peril, if you want to find the Truth.

Tony

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» RE: COLD How to Stop the Planet From Freezing Posted by: Fat Man at the Buffet Line
» I have a PhD from Bovine University Posted by: eddie torres

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O Hai Ther Guys!
Posted by: nen on Dec 2, 2009 4:52 AM   
Current rating: 4    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Didja notice us up here? Oh wow I feel special now. Big hulking landmass sitting right on top of ya and you don't even know the name of our capital city more often than not.

You Americans just roll over and go back to sleep now. Everything's alright. We're not gonna steal the credit for destroying the world *cough*war-on-terror*cough*.

Yeah, our Prime Minister is slimy moron. We have about as much say over what the Canadian oligarchy does as you did over Bush's antics. Y'all can stop yelling at us to change our leader's mind instantly. Wanna say something to Mr. Harper? Fine, aim your article at him, not the common man. Now, if you'll excuse me, we have to dig ourselves out of an economic crisis that SOMEONE went and got us into.

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» Nicely stated Posted by: rational_moderate
» RE: O Hai Ther Guys! Posted by: paulaH
» RE: O Hai Ther Guys! Posted by: djnoll
» RE: O Hai Ther Guys! Posted by: NorthernView
» RE: O Hai Ther Guys! Posted by: djnoll
» RE: O Hai Ther Guys! Posted by: Annarisse
» RE: O Hai Ther Guys! Posted by: paulaH
» RE: O Hai Ther Guys! Posted by: djnoll

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Quebec does what it can
Posted by: Caligulove on Dec 2, 2009 5:27 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
From environmentaldefence.ca:

Greenhouse gas emissions reduction targets
Quebec adopts the highest target on the continent
Montreal, November 23, 2009 – Premier Charest announced today Quebec's GHG reduction target: 20% below 1990 levels by 2020. Environmental Defence, Équiterre, David Suzuki Foundation, Pembina Institute and Vivre en ville note that this goal corresponds to that of the European Union and constitutes the most ambitious to date in North America. For the groups "with this objective, Quebec remains a leader in North America, which is all the more significant in face of the increasingly apparent inaction of the Canadian federal government, whose target is a mere minus 3%—the smallest of all industrialized countries".

"As science ask reductions between -25 % and -40 % below 1990 for 2020, we believe it's possible to go even further and do more in the current context. We will work with the Quebec government and the rest of civil society to suggest courses of action and additional measures to bolster Quebec’s objectives," they added.

Moreover, all the groups plan to collaborate fully toward the creation of the action plan that is expected to be completed in the coming months. Transportation, energy and land-use planning are the sectors requiring the most immediate intervention. In these areas, Quebec will have to perform an about-face and break with its traditional practices.

"Given that the transportation sector represents close to 40% of GHG emissions in Quebec, the first order of business will be to take the Turcot project back to the drawing board," affirmed groups from Quebec. As it exists right now, this project would see the addition of tens of thousands of vehicles on the Turcot interchange and an increase in traffic congestion on the island of Montreal. To live up to the progressive vision that the Quebec government presented us today, and to comply with the unanimous demand of the City of Montréal, we must completely rethink this project, notably by increasing and improving public transport infrastructure and reducing vehicle traffic on the city’s major routes.

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» RE: Quebec does what it can Posted by: dbaker

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So, you thought Canadians were environmentalists?
Posted by: PJAW on Dec 2, 2009 5:32 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
They may not be as rapacious as America (as a whole) but the only thing saving the envirnment thus far in Canada is the fact that there's a lot of land and not so many people.

That's not to point a finger at them, if the world is going to be led in the direction of environmental preservation, it's going to have to be done by the nation doing the greatest damage... The United States. And it must be done by example as much as directive.

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Physicist Howard Hayden’s one-letter disproof of global warming claims
Posted by: tony_opmoc on Dec 2, 2009 5:49 AM   
Current rating: 3    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
“People will do anything to save the world … except take a course in science.”

You need to use your mouse to find the pointer on the screen. The pointer is usually an arrow. If you move the mouse around on a firm surface, you should see the arrow on the screen move in the same direction the mouse moves. Position the arrow over the text that is highlighted - often blue, and it should become underlined when your arrow is over it. On many websites the underline works in reverse to that implemented here.

This is a link to contents you can read on a different website. Now find the left button on your mouse and press it. You should now be able to read the contents of the link. This may not always work. For example, connections to the other website may not be available - or there maybe errors in the link or the contents may have been deleted.

It just worked for me though.

Tony

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Results of corporate control of governments
Posted by: hilaryuk on Dec 2, 2009 6:05 AM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Like so many of the world's ills, the corruption of Canadian ideals is rooted in the fact that corporate organisations have bought up the levers of government. Western "democracy" is no longer government for the people by the people, it is for corporate capitalism by the tools of corporate capitalism. Globalised multi-national capitalism has bought us to this pass, and, unless we the people face up to the fact that the very system our media (corporate owned) lauds is destroying our lives and our childrens' future, things can only get worse. The western liberal democratic model is failing and we have a choice: mend it or accept the fact that not doing so will lead to full corporate dictatorship. Desperate people scurry for the illusion of salvation wherever it may lie - witness the rise of the Nazis in 1930's Germany.

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blah
Posted by: Richardsievert on Dec 2, 2009 6:10 AM   
Current rating: 2    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
You stupid Gehenna, Monkey's The world is not threatened by global warming it is threatened by war for oil.
By bomb's and real "Monstrous disasters us'
Our pit bull, Out of control military that's what the problem is. The United Stated of take over the world is a problem' So stick your global Nobel mouths where the sun don't shine and get them under control now.

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» RE: blah Posted by: hilaryuk

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World Peace and Oxymoron
Posted by: sayward2 on Dec 2, 2009 6:34 AM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Canada is no threat to world peace but it is to its own people( I am one of them). No wealthy country should have people starve or go cold in the winter. It is all about greed and more greed. The USA is the one that benefits from Canada's oil sands not Canadians. As for over fishing and logging let us just say not enough future thought went into their plans( or any country's plans). No one seems to want to plan ahead just give me the loonie or the buck or the yen or the rupee...

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Pulling out of Kyoto
Posted by: earth_saver on Dec 2, 2009 6:37 AM   
Current rating: 3    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Bad-mouthing Canada for pulling out of the Kyoto agreement is a bit harsh. At least they had the balls to step up and admit they were not going to meet their targets. No other country signed on to the agreement will meet their targets either - so other nations saying they are still following the agreement is nonsense. I am quite certain no other Kyoto signee will agree to sanctions after 2012 and the numbers show they haven't met what they agreed to meet.

If you want to bad-mouth Canada for destroying a huge chunk of beautiful Alberta wilderness that makes sense but don't demonize them for not accomplishing something that no other nation is going to accomplish either.

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I'm a Canadian and this makes me sick
Posted by: dongarb on Dec 2, 2009 6:41 AM   
Current rating: 4    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
When our conservative Prime Saboteur, Darth Harper first began licking US and corporate ass, he found it tasted good and he's been tonguing at that trough ever since. Meanwhile, the psychopathic billionaire class realized that they had sucked all the easy blood out of the American populace, and that America was now just a drained corpse that had not yet fallen down dead.

So of course, they focused on Canada, as the next place to realize their psychopathic agenda, which is to bring back the dark ages by crashing the world's environment. They think it's better to own all of a broken legged horse that vomits up blood than to have to share ownership of a healthy horse with those who are not in on their game.

The world has been hijacked by these inhuman con men, and the fact that they are operating so unabashedly out in the open, something that is against their nature, is not a good sign for us.

Great article George, keep sounding the alarm, because the Canadian people are awake and listening. Soon there will come a great rain that will wash all the scum away.

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Alternet is a joke
Posted by: ailiergauche on Dec 2, 2009 6:46 AM   
Current rating: 3    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
They didn't even report that Phil Jones stepped down. Now they're demonizing Canadians for trying to meet their current energy needs.

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» RE: Alternet is a joke Posted by: reelectnoone

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I think the root of the problem up here...
Posted by: CanuckKid on Dec 2, 2009 6:54 AM   
Current rating: 4    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
...lies in the man who we elected to lead us - so in that sense, Canada in general is to blame.

Unfortunately, the alternatives to Stephen Harper weren't (and still arent) very good....

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How come Canada doesn't do hempseed oil in leiu of petro?
Posted by: Todd McClintock on Dec 2, 2009 6:59 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Save the environment and the economy with hemp. How bad can that be?

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Who are the customers?
Posted by: reelectnoone on Dec 2, 2009 6:59 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
And who will Canada be selling all this oil to? The USA and China no doubt.

Greed has no boundary or borders. Greed will sell out it's own mother if the price is right.

Greed has apparently bought the Canadian government just as it has the US Government.

Lest we pray for this to end, remember Greed also owns all the churches as well.

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Canadian technological progress: shovel.
Posted by: kedikat on Dec 2, 2009 7:21 AM   
Current rating: 4    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
A dollar or a vote today is worth being poor, hungry and freezing in the dark tomorrow.
Canada has narrowed it's only means of wealth and work to selling mostly non renewable resources. The tar sands is a literal scrapping of the bottom of the barrel. But it is just one aspect of a doomed economic model.

Being heavily owned and controlled by foreign interests, even the profit is shipped out. Alaska gets more per barrel for it's oil from the US than we do.

Raw resource selling provides a limited job base. When the customer's economy gets bad, even those jobs disappear. And a lot of customers economies are going to get very bad.

Soon we will export less, and have no industry to create the things we need. A situation many countries are getting to.

People with vision and common sense about the future are marginalized. The quick fix and quick buck get made. The resources dwindle, our Neros fiddle.

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No measurable benefit.
Posted by: franklyspanking on Dec 2, 2009 7:31 AM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Perhaps they began analyzing science and doing "the maths" rather than blindly following the new religion?

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» RE: No measurable benefit. Posted by: tony_opmoc
» RE: No measurable benefit. Posted by: NorthernView

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Canada isn't perfect
Posted by: Old Skeptic on Dec 2, 2009 7:51 AM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Maybe we expect too much from our neighbors. How can any country that murders hundreds of thousands of baby seals every year be considered a bastion of environmental ethics? The same sort of oligarchs that infest the US also slither into every other nation to devastate their resources. When I consider the effect corporate greed has on our beautiful planet, I wish that I could believe in an afterlife so I could wish them all in hell!

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A question for the author George Monbiot
Posted by: pg on Dec 2, 2009 8:22 AM   
Current rating: 3    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
November 25th on your own blog at the guardian.co.uk you wrote the following...

"Pretending the climate email leak isn't a crisis won't make it go away."

You lamely spin a story that the warming deniers lies are worse than the scientists lies and deceit even while acknowledging the science has let you down.

"No one has been as badly let down by the revelations in these emails as those of us who have championed the science."

I have no problem arguing against any industrial process that destroys forests and pollutes rivers and ground water and applaud any effort to expose it but how can you use the same article to argue for enforcement of Kyoto and successful talks at Copenhagen without demanding a full investigation and review of the science and the three main scientists that drove the IPCC reports that the climate treaties past and future are and will be based on?

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How to make the tar sands irrelevant
Posted by: chaoslegs on Dec 2, 2009 8:43 AM   
Current rating: 4    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Low oil prices, if the cost of oil is low, then the development won't be economically viable. All extractive industries are based on them being economically viable, so if it is too expensive to extract/refine then they won't do it.

I think alternative energy sources and high taxes on gas may help keep prices lower.

As others wrote, I don't think this is the greatest threat to world peace, but to world livability--maybe.

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Please...Blame Canada!
Posted by: potvin on Dec 2, 2009 8:50 AM   
Current rating: 2    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
If anything that Moonbat has written about Canada is true then how wonderful. I couldn't be prouder of my government standing up against the liars and frauds that is the global warming movement. Nice to know that Canadians can still smell the BS in these politically correct times. Thanks to the lame stream media many have not yet heard of Climategate but hopefully in the days to come this Global swindle will become more widely disseminated.

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The real situation...
Posted by: Prinzowhales on Dec 2, 2009 8:56 AM   
Current rating: 3    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
There are those who like to link sound ecology with the lie of global warming and the nonsense of CO2's danger...and, as we see with CLIMATEGATE, they have only succeeded in damaging the fight for a cleaner planet and forwarding the cause of expanding dirty energy production. By jumping on Gore's global warming bandwagon, they have made themselves fools and are now loathe to admit it...first, they cast about and found "climate change" to substitute for the fraud of "global warming"...now, they are trying to argue that the carbon taxes and carbon trading should be justified on the basis of general ecology... the only constant in this avalanche of lies is the tax and trading scam--the heart of the Gore Climate Charade.

WE NEED NONE OF IT! For clean air, water and energy...we need not taxes and trading scams... but, solar power, water power and wind power...we need LEDs and energy efficiency...we need mass transit and electric cars...efficient design of communities....

Copenhagen gives us none of this...it is a meeting of the Masters of the Universe, their academic trollops and bought dog media to broadcast with extreme unction the burbling promises of a 'green' future...with the fools thinking ecology and the financiers thinking the color of money as it dances out of your pockets and into their hoards.

It is time to put people to work building a greener future for themselves...not to move pollution from one locale to another...spreading poison while burying it in the kind of pseudo-scientific clap trap that they have used to promote a warming planet in the face of global cooling.

The gathering of weasels at Copenhagen soon to take place is part and parcel of the problem...their wealth and power rests on poison and lies...It is time for real change, not the ersatz presented to us by the Demopublican filth, their Corporatist masters and their internationalist associates.

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Canadian Politics: A Primer
Posted by: dodgy69 on Dec 2, 2009 9:44 AM   
Current rating: 4    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Conservative Party PM Stephen Harper's right-wing nutjobs have been running the country since 2006, mostly due to the complete lack of credible leadership alternatives from amongst the opposition parties.

The Conservative Party is your typical band of neocon pro-corporate, pro-free market capitalism zealots.

Their power base is Alberta, aka "Texas North."

The tar sands are Alberta's gravy train.

Greenhouse reduction targets threaten to reduce the profitability of the oil companies and, by extension, the Alberta economy.

Any questions?

Signed,
An ashamed Canadian.

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» That pretty much sums it up. Posted by: CanuckKid

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Harper plays the villain so Americans can keep driving.
Posted by: dr421 on Dec 2, 2009 9:49 AM   
Current rating: 2    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
The fuel from the tar sands is much more expensive than conventional oil. Tar sands fuel was not developed until a shortage of conventional oil drove up prices. The US needs this fuel, and turning off the tap would inflict massive harm upon a US economy already damaged by Wall Street insanity. Would Washington tolerate cuts to tar sands production?

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Monboit sometimes at least stands for moonbat..
Posted by: Smartcookie on Dec 2, 2009 10:00 AM   
Current rating: 4    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
I'll have you know that the corporate takeover of canada was NOT sanctioned by it's citizens.

Everything that is happening in canada is because of US corporate and US foreign policy meddling in our politics and because we have a Palin/McCain conservative christian crowd up here in Canada. Most of our homegrown corporations and assets were sold off to foreigners for pennies on the dollar, many previously state owned enterprizes were privatized.

The fact is harper won only because Canadians themselves have been dumbed down by media and the education system, many young canadians are apathetic, and we have the worst voter turnout in years because the government is bought and sold by the highest bidder and the fact that public opinion is so manipulated and the lack of public will to change the system we now have in place, people around the world, US, canada, doesn't matter where you live - are too complacent, making endless excuses why they won't just cause serious mischief and rally behind a cause and get things one... we are now living in the "whats in it for me" generation and the future be damned.

When I went to school there were no civic's classes on how to be a good citzen or be involved in politics and government policy, and I'm only in my early 30's.

The big reason Harper is in government is because of Big Oil, Canada is the safest place to invest in the worlds future energy needs. This is why the government is so anti-environment, it's been taken over by mult-national energy interests.

The man acts like we have a choice, our parliament system is broken, and was invented in an age of farmers and when the bulk of the population was fairly uneducated, all government models in existence today were designed for a bygone age.

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Conservatives in Canada
Posted by: carrotwax on Dec 2, 2009 10:03 AM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
The conservatives in Canada are the same neocons. The irony is that Canadians very liked them enough to give them a majority. But all the rest of the parties are so split that they are afraid of an election now.

Yes, Canada's government has gone more right wing, more Bush-like. I don't think that's how Canadians are; it's more like Canadians just have gotten more apatheic about it because there's a real perception about how little a vote matters now. That's where real grassroots movement and community building can come in.

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» They Don't Have A Majority Posted by: InsertNameHere
» RE: Conservatives in Canada Posted by: can-lizzy

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Neocon virus
Posted by: willymack on Dec 2, 2009 10:26 AM   
Current rating: 4    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
The same virulent, brain eating pathogen that produced the bushes, cheneys, roves, and other trash has wafted up north to infect a formerly decent and caring nation.
This virus is like the Terminator. It has no heart, no compassion, no moral or ethical scruples, and can NEVER be reasoned with. Ever.
Its ONLY function is to destroy everything good and decent, extract all the wealth from the land, regardless of how ghastly the consequences may be, and move on to its next victim.
We need to find a good vaccine before it's too late.

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Canada's Dirty Oil and the Canada - U.S. Free Trade Agreement
Posted by: Maria B. on Dec 2, 2009 11:56 AM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Why is everyone so surprised?

Under the Canada - U.S. Free Trade Agreement (1989) there are "sleeper" clauses that are truly ominous, such as - Canada must supply the U.S. with its energy needs even if Canada runs short.

Let us not forget that it was at the expense of my country (Canada) in which the plot for globalization was hatched.

We must relentlessly publicize the details of this agreement, which many Canadians still to this day do not understand the ramifications of or even remember.

We must also pick apart and publicize the NAFTA (North American Free Trade Agreement)between the U.S., Canada and Mexico.

So, Stephen Harper being the good son of an Imperial Oil executive is obediently and enthusiastically fulfilling the Canada - U.S. Free Trade Agreement.

The problem with Canada is that 15 million people did not vote in the last federal election in the fall of 2008.

They were more concerned with what was happening south of the border - the election campaign of the 44th U.S. president - hoping for Barack Hussein Obama.

It's sad that Canadians think that they don't matter and therefore they didn't vote.

But hopefully that will teach them a lesson about whining why everything gets worse or stays the same.

Beliefs are stronger than prison bars.

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No george say it ain't so...
Posted by: DaBear on Dec 2, 2009 12:20 PM   
Current rating: 1    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
I was gonna think of that ole Xtian folktale about the logs in yer own eyes and all that shit but I guess the UK is the paragon of virtue but for their climate deniers and such...

Canada, huh? Damn. Kick us even further down when we already got our noses mashed into the dirt by 'Bombarama Bush III.

Mebbe Canadia just needs a Nobel peace prize winner like our illustrious Mister-O, the now great Warlord in Chief over all the 'Stans.

This "article" was just too god damned funny... satire and parody right, G?

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d baker
Posted by: dbaker on Dec 2, 2009 12:31 PM   
Current rating: 1    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
International Criminal Court
Information and Evidence Unit
Office of the Prosecutor
Post Office Box 19519
2500 CM The Hague
The Netherlands
otp.informationdesk@icc-cpi.int
21/07/2009
Dennis Baker
103-66 Duncan avenue west
penticton bc canada V2A6Z3
778-476-3673
dennisbaker2003@hotmail.com
RE: genocide complaint against RCMP Myhers and others
Dear Office of the Prosecutor
The Globe and Mail newspaper Mon, Jun 1, 2009
Climate-change disasters kill 300,000 a year
 
I am to held under house arrest for one year awaiting a preliminary hearing on the drugs RCMP Myhers planted to prevent my running in an Provincial election against BC Speaker of the House Bill Barisoff.

The lawyer quit when I refused to relinquish my right to ask questions of Police.
The solution to climate change.
( human excrement + nuclear waste = hydrogen )
The USA discharges Trillions of tons of sewage annually, sufficient quantity to sustain electrical generation requirements of the USA.
Redirecting existing sewage systems to containment facilities would be a considerable infrastructure modification project.
It is the intense radiation that causes the conversion of organic material into hydrogen, therefore what some would consider the most dangerous waste because of its radiation would be the best for this utilization.
I believe the combination of clean water and clean air, will increase the life expectance of humans.
 
 
 
 
Since these actions will prevent any forward movement on my solution to climate change, for at least one year, and 300,000 additional deaths can be directly attributed to this, is it possible to have Myhres ( and others) held accountable in your court as the RCMP are never held accountable in Canada?
yours sincerely
Dennis Baker
----- ----- ----- -----
International Criminal Court
Information and Evidence Unit
Office of the Prosecutor
Post Office Box 19519
2500 CM The Hague
The Netherlands
otp.informationdesk@icc-cpi.int



On October 6 2009 I sent two emails to your office: subject More Evidence 1 and More Evidence 2.
The next day the same RCMP in the original complaint did the same thing, only this time a search warrant was executed on my home to facilitate the theft of documentation related to RCMP wrongdoing and my solution to climate change.
I was held for two weeks in solitary confinement 24/7. No shower and no fresh air exercise as required by international law.
Bright lights were on in my cell 24/7 and every time I went to sleep RCMP slammed doors and other things to ensure sleep deprivation.
Every 3 or 4 days I was dragged into court without access to the documentation of the charges against me. The judges demanding that I proceed anyway.
I finally received the documentation and found 20 were illegible and I suspect therefore "secret".
Right now I am in a Regional Jail, Inmate # 03520244
KRCC, Kamloops BC V2C 5M9
My bail hearing is November 18 2009 in Penticton BC.
I have evidence of perjury on these charges by RCMP Livingstone but the court refuses to hear this prior to trial. Which means another 600,000 are to die before I will be found innocent at trial.
Yours Sincerely,
Dennis Baker

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Incensed expat_scientist
Posted by: smalldave on Dec 2, 2009 2:27 PM   
Current rating: 3    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
This is the dumbest article that Moonbat has ever written. The tar sands are an environmental disaster because they threaten one of the world's largest sources of fresh water, not because of climate change. It is well beyond my grasp as to why anyone thinks climate change is a bigger threat to the world than nuclear proliferation, degradation of fresh water supplies, the global arms race that fuels never ending war, etc. I too moved to Canada from the U.S. (please don't make me go back). Anyone who thinks Canada is threat to the world should not be taken seriously. File this article in the trash with this guy's recent defense of global warming scientists who fake data. Oh, by the way, I'm an environmental scientist who moved to Canada to live among the most peaceful and educated people in the world. The world needs more Canada and less U.S. and Great Britain.

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» RE: Incensed expat_scientist Posted by: Elixabeth

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Canada bashing seems to be the new thing these days...
Posted by: Bearzerker on Dec 2, 2009 2:48 PM   
Current rating: 3    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Whats rarely mentioned is that the main reason for C02 spikes is the amount of damage overpopulation and greed is causing to the worlds rainforests and flora which are the worlds lungs & spunges for water retention... we need to realize we have water issues which go hand in hand with C02 as well...

Canada isnt the problem and mining butimen deposits in Fort McMurry isnt the doom and gloom when compared to what will happen if we rely on other nations to supply petroleum to the largest economy in the world.

Canda just locked the entire Borel Forest from developement from coast to coast protecting forever this ecosystem's footprint in maintaining CO2 absorbtion... thats a rather HUGE commitment but you dont hear a word of that here or anywhere else.

Copenhaghen summit is off balance on where we need to be to address global C02 concerns...

Finally, why is the north polar cap shrinking while the south polar cap is growing

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Tar sands? Really? Tar sands now.
Posted by: McGovern72! on Dec 2, 2009 4:16 PM   
Current rating: 4    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Of all the things to get your blood pressure up over. What are you going to do when we have a President who decides to mine the coal in the western deserts on federal lands, or we decide to get our shale oil converted? Orwhen we open ten new coal-fired electrical plants in the Appalachians, or mimic the French with a boom in nuclear energy?

I am sure you're not driving in a full-size car and only using your Prius when you simply have to. lol

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NONSENSE!
Posted by: IwillIwill on Dec 2, 2009 4:50 PM   
Current rating: 3    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
This person and this "article" are totally full of crap. This creep has attacked me--you will probably not show my post which shows that you are just as bad at warping the truth as those you criticize.

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Never trust a good reputation...
Posted by: Elixabeth on Dec 2, 2009 6:16 PM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
The absence of information is not the same as a clean record. In some ways I trust US system better, because we hold politicians in fear of their jobs (occasionally when we pay attention). There are a lot of freedom of information requests. We also air a lot more dirty laundry, which can be bad for our reputation and undiplomatic, but it does let us know better what is going on.

Canada is an oil country. We are a big oil market and we get the most oil from Canada of any country. While Saudi Arabia has allowed itself to be tarnished by its exploits as an oil nation, we get almost twice as much patroleum from Canada and no one even knows about it... sneaky huh?

Crude Oil and Total Petroleum Imports Top 15 Countries

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Why are people surprised?
Posted by: Dyolfknip on Dec 2, 2009 6:16 PM   
Current rating: 4    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
This post is not about the oilsands and environmental issues but of Canada's national image.

I am a Canadian expat living in China and being an avid history/sociology/poly sci student I am always shocked when people tell me what a great country Canada is.

In terms of moral duplicity Canada (in my opinion) falls somewhere between deceatful and treacherous. My country has covered up every dirty secret and questionable action of it's history with a disneyfied global image of hockey, mounties, and the "great white north". Canada's list of social ills is as long as it is broad and often (as this article mentions) affects those who do not share a European ethnicity (native North Americans and Chinese are the prime targets). If America has a prison problem with the majority of encarcerated individuals being of African origin than Canada has the same "problem" with the Native population (who are the filler in our prison system). There are native communities across Canada that are living at a "third world" development level and there is a widely held concensus that it is their own fault (much the same way that poor blacks in America are percieved to be blameworthy for their own socio-economic situation). The problem is not just domestic either... Many people observe that because my hometown (Vancouver) has so many Asian people that it is a sign of Canada's acceptance of other cultures, however, if you are not extremely wealthy you will have a very hard time coming to Canada (especially true for Chinese). I have many Chinese friends who have been denied tourist visas merely because they are not millionaires and they are Chinese, However, my Japanese friends have no problem.

Many Canadians embody a form of elitest racism that portrays acceptence of others ideals while in reality scorning everything different from it's own percieved cultural ideals. The statement "I believe everyone has the right to do things their own way but I wouldn't be caught dead in that sickening dirty little backward country", is a common sentiment. I have heard this sickening doubletalk so many times from Canadians and it makes me embarrassed every time. But the worst facet of the Canadian method of governence is this: We do everything that the other oppressive "first world" nations do but we hide it and act like it isn't there. We are one of the polluting, warwaging, elitest, plutocratic, economic imperialist group of European decended capitalist nations, and yet, everyone thinks we are just peachy. It is a testement to the Canadian government's propaganda machine. We participate in almost every questionable venture that the corptocracy to the south does but we hide behind their much larger social ills so that ours appear small or non-existent. It is a terrible irony that Canadians will describe themselves as "not American" while we are direct benificiaries of (and participants in) the uncaring brutal system of American style milataristic capitalism.

...and no, this is not just because of the Harper government similar to how America's sickness is not just the result of Reagan or the Bushes.

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Hyperbole mixed in with a few good points
Posted by: dayahka on Dec 2, 2009 6:35 PM   
Current rating: 3    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Yet another instance of oneupmanship in the hyperbole game--to see who can come up with the most outrageous exaggeration yet. Please!

First, you're right that Canada is no longer the Canada of old, the Canada of propaganda. It's Gestapo border police are a match for any in the third world.

Second, yes, they're strip-mining an entire province for a few pieces of silver.

But, third, they're not doing it primarily because of Canadian will--or lack of it--but because whatever big brother down south wants, big brother gets, and it's big brother that buys and gets most of the oil produced in Alberta, and by agreement, US demand for oil comes before local demand and need. So, please, put the blame where it belongs.

And, fourth, yes, we do need to rid ourselves of the filth of oil, but to do so on the basis of a scam like anthropogenic global warming is as bad as the problem. So, Copenhagen should fail, hopefully will fail, and not because of Canada, but because the rest of the world sees through the gigantic fraud of cap-and-trade.

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» satire... very convincing... Posted by: Bearzerker

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dennis baker canadian
Posted by: dbaker on Dec 2, 2009 9:09 PM   
Current rating: 1    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Dennis Earl Baker

103 - 66 Duncan avenue west

Penticton British Columbia V2A6Z3

Phone/Fax 778-476-3673

25/11/2009

The Copenhagen Diagnosis, 2009: Updating the world on the Latest Climate Science. Has again indicated urgency in action is imperative. Here's my solution and immediate areas of impact.
dennisbaker2003@hotmail.com
RE : The solution to climate change.
( human excrement + nuclear waste = hydrogen )
The USA discharges Trillions of tons of sewage annually, sufficient quantity to sustain electrical generation requirements of the USA.
Redirecting existing sewage systems to containment facilities would be a considerable infrastructure modification project.
It is the intense radiation that causes the conversion of organic material into hydrogen, therefore what some would consider the most dangerous waste because of its radiation would be the best for this utilization.
I believe the combination of clean water and clean air, will increase the life expectancy of humans.
The four main areas of concern globally are energy, food,water and air!
The radiologic decomposing of organic materials generates Hydrogen
By using our sewage as a source of energy we also get clean air , clean water, and no ethanol use of food stocks. Eat food first, create energy after.
Simply replacing the fossil fuel powered electrical generating facilities with these plants, would reduce CO2 emissions, and CH4 emissions, to acceptable levels, globally.
This would require a completely new reactor facility capable of converting human waste into hydrogen and then burning the hydrogen to generate electricity on site.
This solution is sellable to citizens because of all the side issue solutions. I've been able to convince most simply with concept of using nuclear waste to a productive end.
Superbugs ( antibiotic resistant ) apparently are created in the waters sewage is discharged into, which is one more side issue solution.
Anything not converting into hydrogen will potentially be disposed of using Transmutation.
The water emitted from hydrogen burning will have uses in leaching heavy metals from other contaminated site clean ups.
I thank you for your consideration, please feel free to contact me anytime.
Dennis Baker

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Kyoto
Posted by: InsertNameHere on Dec 2, 2009 11:22 PM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Our previous Prime Minister ratified the agreement, then Harper came in and basically said 'No, we're making a made in Canada approach' and proceeded to rip everything else up.

Guess who he borrowed his policy from? The Bush Admin.

The video mentions that the Tar Sands violate Kyoto, and yes, I'm sure they do. Just a minor point though, the US basically refused to even sign it in the first place.

Pointing fingers at countries is pointless. The people in charge have no loyalty to their country. It doesn't matter where they are from, they care only about selling public infrastructure to private industry with a license to pollute at will.

It happens everywhere, these global warming treaties are nothing but hot air, bad pun. Distractions to disguise the fact that governments aren't actually doing anything.

Look at this cap and trade thing. It will be the next financial bubble, and in the end we will find out that emissions don't go down. Look who is designing the system. The same crooks and liars who created the last meltdown. The next melt down will be bigger and more literal.

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Kyoto
Posted by: InsertNameHere on Dec 2, 2009 11:24 PM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Our previous Prime Minister ratified the agreement, then Harper came in and basically said 'No, we're making a made in Canada approach' and proceeded to rip everything else up.

Guess who he borrowed his policy from? The Bush Admin.

The video mentions that the Tar Sands violate Kyoto, and yes, I'm sure they do. Just a minor point though, the US basically refused to even sign it in the first place.

Pointing fingers at countries is pointless. The people in charge have no loyalty to their country. It doesn't matter where they are from, they care only about selling public infrastructure to private industry with a license to pollute at will.

It happens everywhere, these global warming treaties are nothing but hot air, bad pun. Distractions to disguise the fact that governments aren't actually doing anything.

Look at this cap and trade thing. It will be the next financial bubble, and in the end we will find out that emissions don't go down. Look who is designing the system. The same crooks and liars who created the last meltdown. The next melt down will be bigger and more literal.

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This logic doesn't wash
Posted by: Ruler4You on Dec 3, 2009 8:06 AM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
The Greatest Threat to World Peace is Canada vacating it's support of Kyoto?

All I can say is the left almost always has to resort to scare tactics in it's rhetoric instead of facts and reason. It's a huge leap to conclude from this article that world peace is in jeopardy because of failure to comply with a treaty that no one is complying with in the first place.

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Bill from AR.
Posted by: joQQeb on Dec 3, 2009 8:32 AM   
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"By demonstrating that climate sanctions aren’t worth the paper they’re written on, it threatens to render any treaty struck at Copenhagen void."

It's only fair: According to the recent email release from England's premire climate change institute, all the data regarding 'global climate change' isn't worth the paper its printed on either.

Why would the US, Canada, or any other industrialized country for that matter, want to cripple its industry, impoverish its people, and transfer a good chunk of its wealth to a series of pre-industrialized countries over fraudulant science?

You really want to see all countries prosper; then mandate democracy, rule of law, and property rights instead of mandating hundreds of billions of dollars of wealth transfers. It's not going to do all those impoverished South Africans any good to send them billions of dollars if they don't have the necessary energy to boil their water before they drink it. How many tens of millions of them would die before we could transfer enough wealth to that country so it could build a 'green' power grid?

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RE: I found a great Ugg boots discount sale site,they sale genuine sheepskin
Posted by: racetoinfinity on Dec 5, 2009 1:33 PM   
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SPAM

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FORMER ROYALIST HAVE NO SHAME
Posted by: YANIRA06_66 on Dec 3, 2009 8:30 PM   
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Aren't Canadians former U.S. Colonialist that abandoned America after the Declaration of Independence? Surely, we don't have high hopes they will keep their word or commitments?

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» Satire yet again... oh my Posted by: Bearzerker

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Our environment
Posted by: medstore on Dec 5, 2009 9:26 AM   
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They may not be as rapacious as America (as a whole) but the only thing saving the environment thus far in Canada is the fact that there's a lot of land and not so many people.

That's not to point a finger at them, if the world is going to be led in the direction of environmental preservation, it's going to have to be done by the nation doing the greatest damage... The United States. And it must be done by example as much as directive.
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its just a really dumb article... lets blame Canada for global warming...
Posted by: Bearzerker on Dec 6, 2009 12:46 AM   
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... by labeling the Tar Sands as the worst of the worst and for our reluctance to accept a global fiasco called the "Copenhagen Summit".
This just shows the weakness of the opposition in producing and presenting an alternative counter-plan to the cap and trade disaster currently making the rounds.

It's just so noisy with all the fluff circulating that people dont seriously realize that enforcing cap and trade wouldnt address the economic degradation we're currently struggling with, and would actually make matters worse... just imagine a world with no capacity or abilities to provide the resources to try and deal with the real problems. For example, exploding world population centers spinning into chaos and lawlessness, outwardly magnifying the effects of greed and graft globally while ignoring the needs of food shelter and clothing to a global population base that bursting at the seams.

I agree that Industrial pollution is a problem... and that CO2 emmisions are a very serious Global concern but to hold Industry as soley responsible is rather simplistic & timorous...
Greed is something we could place the blame on but greed isn't the domain of industry alone,
so lets not visit that bastion till we better understand it.
If we [collectivly] could just use some common sence on this people would realize the true nature of the problem we are all facing.
Just do a search on Google Earth. and look for yourselves.
Look at how dry and brown the planet is becoming...
where are all the forests?
why is the Sahara so big now?
where are all of Gaea's carbon & water syncs and why arent they funtioning to full capacity?
where are all the fish? [just think human activity for these global declines]

For me, pollution is more about poisoning the environment then in heightened C02 emmisions.
We need to recognize and stabilze Gaea's natural carbon syncs in order seriously reduce the C02 footprint humanity is producing through its enviromental neglect, but we need to eliminate all poisons being released into local environments by industry.

But first and foremost we need to deal with global overpopulation.
We need to stabalize High-density global population centers through planned parenthood and we "MUST STOP" religion from interferring in the medical needs and rights of women.
We must recognize the legality and the necessity of womens basic rights to their bodies.
for me the fight over a womens reproductive rights is a no brainer.

We've let the children play too long on this file its time to let the adults do some of the heavy lifting...
The adults need to take over the debate and efficiently organize us so we can reverse the horrors that over population and underplanning has done to nature...
Gaea & Chronos are the keys to success

Its not gunna get any better folks until we get all our hens in line.

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Kyoto Protocol?
Posted by: hdconverter on Dec 7, 2009 7:20 AM   
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We all know that the Kyoto Protocol is an international agreement linked to the United Nations Framework Convention on Climate Change. The major feature of the Kyoto Protocol is that it sets binding targets for 37 industrialized countries and the European community for reducing greenhouse gas (GHG) emissions .These amount to an average of five per cent against 1990 levels over the five-year period 2008-2012.

The major distinction between the Protocol and the Convention is that while the Convention encouraged industrialised countries to stabilize GHG emissions, the Protocol commits them to do so. HD to SD and Convert HD to SD

Recognizing that developed countries are principally responsible for the current high levels of GHG emissions in the atmosphere as a result of more than 150 years of industrial activity, the Protocol places a heavier burden on developed nations under the principle of “common but differentiated responsibilities.”

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ffew
Posted by: dewre on Dec 7, 2009 7:53 AM   
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This is very good news was well informed that the followers of the issue I am. Thanks...
Rip BD

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ed hardy
Posted by: mxcm428 on Dec 22, 2009 4:49 PM   
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