COMMENTS: 150
Without Drastic CO2 Cuts Immediately, the World Faces a Massive 'Oh Shit' Moment
Sign up to stay up to date on the latest Environment headlines via email.
Editor's Note: This is the kickoff to a series of pieces as a Copenhagen Primer about climate change that we will be running in the lead up to the international climate talks in Copenhagen beginning on December 7. Stay tuned.
They say that everyone who finally gets it about climate change has an "Oh, shit" moment -- an instant when the full scientific implications become clear and they suddenly realize what a horrifically dangerous situation humanity has created for itself. Listening to the speeches, ground-breaking in their way, that President Obama and Chinese President Hu Jintao delivered September 22 at the UN Summit on Climate Change, I was reminded of my most recent "Oh, shit" moment. It came in July, courtesy of the chief climate adviser to the German government. Hans Joachim Schellnhuber, chair of an advisory council known by its German acronym, WBGU, is a physicist whose specialty, fittingly enough, is chaos theory. Speaking to an invitation-only conference at New Mexico's Santa Fe Institute, Schellnhuber divulged the findings of a study so new he had not yet briefed Chancellor Angela Merkel about it. The study, Solving the Climate Dilemma: The Budget Approach, has now been published here. If its conclusions are correct -- and Schellnhuber ranks among the world's half-dozen most eminent climate scientists -- it has monumental implications for the pivotal meeting in December in Copenhagen, where world leaders will try to agree on reversing global warming.
Schellnhuber and his WBGU colleagues go a giant step beyond the findings of the Intergovernmental Panel on Climate Change, the UN body whose scientific reports are constrained because the world's governments must approve their contents. The IPCC says that by 2020 rich industrial countries must cut emissions 25 to 40 percent (compared with 1990) if the world is to have a fair chance of avoiding catastrophic climate change. By contrast, the WBGU study says the United States must cut emissions 100 percent by 2020 -- in other words, quit carbon entirely within ten years. Germany and other industrial nations must do the same by 2025 to 2030. China only has until 2035, and the world as a whole must be carbon free by 2050. The study adds that big polluters can delay their day of reckoning by "buying" emissions rights from developing countries, a step the study estimates would extend some countries' deadlines by a decade or so.
Needless to say, this timetable is light-years more demanding than what the world's major governments are talking about in the run-up to Copenhagen. The European Union has pledged 20 percent reductions by 2020, which it will increase to 30 percent if others -- i.e., the United States -- do the same. Japan's new prime minister likewise has promised 25 percent reductions by 2020 if others do the same. Obama didn't mention a number, but the Waxman-Markey bill, which he supports, would deliver less than 5 percent reductions by 2020. Obama's silence -- doubtless a function of the fact that Republicans are implacably opposed to serious emissions cuts -- allowed Hu to claim the higher ground at the UN. Hu went further than any Chinese leader has before, pledging to curb greenhouse gas emissions growth by a "notable margin" by 2020. Obama dropped his own bombshell, however, urging that all G-20 governments phase out subsidies for fossil fuels. "The time we have to reverse this tide is running out," Obama declared. Alas, the WBGU study suggests that our time is in fact all but gone.
G-8 leaders agreed in July to limit the global temperature rise to 2 degrees C (3.6 F) above the pre-industrial level at which human civilization developed. Schellnhuber, addressing the Santa Fe conference, joked that the G-8 leaders agreed to the 2C limit "probably because they don't know what it means." In fact, even the "brutal" timeline of the WBGU study, Schellnhuber cautioned, would not guarantee staying within the 2 C target. It would merely give humanity a two out of three chance of doing so -- "worse odds than Russian roulette," he wryly noted. "But it is the best we can do." To have a three out of four chance, countries would have to quit carbon even sooner. Likewise, we could wait another decade or so to halt all greenhouse emissions, but this lowers the odds of hitting the 2 C target to fifty-fifty. "What kind of precautionary principle is that?" Schellnhuber asked.
There is a fundamental political assumption underlying the WBGU study: that the right to emit greenhouse gases is shared equally by all people on earth. Known in diplomatic circles as "the per capita principle," this approach has long been insisted upon by China and most other developing countries and thus is seen as essential to an agreement in Copenhagen, though among G-8 leaders only Merkel has endorsed it. The WBGU study applies the per capita principle to the world population of 7 billion people and arrives at an annual emissions quota of 2.8 tons of carbon dioxide per person. That's harsh news for Americans, who emit twenty tons per person annually, and it explains why the US deadline is the most imminent. But China won't welcome this study either. China's combination of high annual emissions and huge population gives it a deadline only a few years later than Europe's and Japan's.
"I myself was terrified when I saw these numbers," Schellnhuber told me. He urges governments to agree in Copenhagen to launch "a Green Apollo Project." Like John Kennedy's pledge to land a man on the moon in ten years, a global Green Apollo Project would aim to put leading economies on a trajectory of zero carbon emissions within ten years. Combined with carbon trading with low-emissions countries, Schellnhuber says, such a "wartime mobilization" might still save us from the worst impacts of climate change. The alternative is more and more "Oh, shit" moments for all of us.
Stay up to date with the latest Environment headlines via email
Comments are closed-
Posted by: pelican beak on Oct 15, 2009 1:07 AM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
That's been our national characteristic.
[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]
» RE: Carter had the country's oh shit moment in the late 70's
Posted by: iolanthe
» RE: Carter had the country's oh shit moment in the late 70's
Posted by: websurfer
» RE: Carter had the country's oh shit moment in the late 70's
Posted by: PeterW
» RE: Carter had the country's oh shit moment in the late 70's
Posted by: websurfer
» websurfer's attitude - "What? Me responsible?"
Posted by: pelican beak
» RE: websurfer's attitude - "What? Me responsible?"
Posted by: websurfer
» Another conservative nutcase
Posted by: pelican beak
» RE: websurfer's attitude - "What? Me responsible?"
Posted by: LightningJoe
Comments are closed-
Posted by: Revolutionary (Direct) Democracy on Oct 15, 2009 1:24 AM
Current rating: 4 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
They sell guns and then start wars.
They mutate viruses and then sell vaccines.
They make global warming inevitable and then they'll sell us water and food.
FREE AMERICA
REVOLUTIONARY (DIRECT) DEMOCRACY
[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]
» RE: ye of the Beholder
Posted by: richholland
» RE: Eye of the Beholder-mote in yours
Posted by: Changling
Comments are closed-
Posted by: ender on Oct 15, 2009 1:25 AM
Current rating: 4 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
I hate to add something kind of off-topic, but the most immediate danger to humanity is the death of the oceans.
As a species, we seem to be great at being able to ignore the elephant in the room. The oceans are "out of sight, out of mind" but although we can live on a hot Earth, we can't live without healthy oceans.
Think about how long you could live without air conditioning. Now, how long could you go without food? How long without fresh water? How long without oxygen?
We rely on the oceans for all four of those things.
[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]
» RE: Too late, but not humanity's worst problem
Posted by: intrigued
» RE: Too late, but not humanity's worst problem
Posted by: intrigued
» RE: Too late, but not humanity's worst problem
Posted by: pelican beak
» RE: Too late, but not humanity's worst problem
Posted by: femtobeam
» RE: Too late, but not humanity's worst problem
Posted by: ender
» RE: Too late, but not humanity's worst problem
Posted by: femtobeam
» RE: Too late, but not humanity's worst problem
Posted by: MT512
» RE: Too late, but not humanity's worst problem
Posted by: ender
» RE: Too late, but not THE ROOT of humanity's worst problem
Posted by: Crazy H
» RE: Too late, but not THE ROOT of humanity's worst problem
Posted by: robertmc
» RE: Too late, but not THE ROOT of humanity's worst problem
Posted by: ender
» RE: Too late, but not THE ROOT of humanity's worst problem
Posted by: Crazy H
» RE: Too late, but not THE ROOT of humanity's worst problem
Posted by: ender
» RE: Too late, but not humanity's only worst problem
Posted by: Changling
Comments are closed-
Posted by: cplot on Oct 15, 2009 1:52 AM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]
» RE: Addressing climate change is possible and has many great side-effects
Posted by: Crazy H
» RE: Addressing climate change is possible and has many great side-effects
Posted by: pelican beak
» RE: And they've had plenty of those to take place.
Posted by: LightningJoe
Comments are closed-
Posted by: ProfBob on Oct 15, 2009 2:01 AM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
According to an article in Science Daily (April 20, 2009), a survey of the faculty at the State University of New York, which has a very strong environmental science department, the planet’s major environmental problem is overpopulation.. Climate change is second. This echoes the theme of the popular free ebook series “And Gulliver Returns” –In Search of Utopia—(http://andgulliverreturns.info) As one professor at SUNY said “With ten million or even a hundred million people on the planet there would be no warming problem.” It is both the technology and the number of people using it that create so many of our planetary problems.
There is no question that China's one child policy has helped the world and the Chinese economy. Whenever a country attempts to reduce its population it can expect a two or three generation period of problems while deaths reduce to equal births. I hope that China will recognize this fact and keep its own population on the path to reduction--which should begin by 2050. China's actual fertility rate is not 1.0 per woman, but 1.8--the same as Norway's. But that
But it is politically more popular for Western nations to attack warming than overpopulation.
[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]
» RE: ProfKen
Posted by: richholland
» RE: ProfKen
Posted by: jal64
» Meanwhile, Our Society Worships Those Goddamned Duggars
Posted by: iolanthe
» Nah, they're just a freakshow...N/T
Posted by: J-
» So what?
Posted by: themotie
Comments are closed-
Posted by: Lese Majeste on Oct 15, 2009 3:14 AM
Current rating: 4 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Wrong. It's an America that has lived the good life by controlling and using the world's resources for decades to support our extravagent lifestyle.
We've been taught to 'Shop till you drop' and boy do we take that advice to heart.
5% of the world's population that uses up over 25% of its resources and in the process, create a mountain of CO2.
We've created a Pentagon monster to do our dirty work while we sit on our fat asses, eating potato chips and watching "Dancing with the Stars."
A Pentagon that is the world's largest consumer of oil, other than nations.
A Pentagon that is an insatiable beast that always seems to find wars in oil-rich areas.
Until we learn how to restrain ourselves and 'Just say NO' to our impulsive ways, the planet will continue to suffer.
[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]
» Overpopulation AND overconsumption
Posted by: rational_moderate
» RE: They are all Major Problems that affect our Earth
Posted by: Changling
Comments are closed-
Posted by: Squarehead on Oct 15, 2009 3:56 AM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Of, course, there are hopeful signs too. E.g., the PRC had a renewables target of (I think) 7% by 2009. They have surpassed that, and have a new target of 15% by 2020. Not quite enough, but the right attitude.
There are bright signs, on the political horizon. E.g. this committment of the leadership of PRC to combatting climate change, and the greater degree of committment shown by Pres. Barack Obama. And there are technical solutions, which are vast in scale, but have the benefit of being carbon negative in the medium and long term.
The primary example I think of is serious addressment of solar energy, in the model suggested by Richard E Smalley, in his paper 'The Terawatt Challenge' (look it up)
http://cohesion.rice.edu/NaturalSciences/Smalley/ emplibrary/120204%20MRS%20Boston.pdf
Forget about the politics expressed, look only at the science.
In USA, you all consume resources at a level of (equivalence) ~ 22 tons of CO2 production per year, per person. Therefore some people are consuming at a level of 100s of tons. We all need to reduce our consumption to 1 - 2 tons per person. And we can, if we embrace renewable energy, systematic quality, and total recycling. Only thing is, we need to have that in place within 10 (?) years.
I think we can do it.
[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]
» Why So Optimistic?
Posted by: ChicagoWay
» RE: Why So Optimistic? [Nuclear has ZERO possibility of being our way out of this predicament.
Posted by: Squarehead
» America Gets 19.4% of Electricity Needs From Just 65 Nuke Plants
Posted by: ChicagoWay
» Don't rely on nuclear
Posted by: LightningJoe
» Nonsense Joe
Posted by: ChicagoWay
» RE: The page cannot be found n/m
Posted by: Changling
Comments are closed-
Posted by: femtobeam on Oct 15, 2009 4:10 AM
Current rating: 3 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
The only purpose of attaching a dollar figure to a climate change debate is for Hu Jintau to say that until China's giant population has the same standard of living as the US they will continue to force trade issues at the expense of US jobs to China.
They are the number one polluter and they should not be given any incentives to continue their population trends by making pollution a per capita issue.
Oddly, Secretary Chu, in opposition to Obama, was quoted as saying if he was making the decision, he would put all of DOE money into electric vehicles. This does nothing to benefit the US economy with the exception of auto workers who also have to compete with low wage jobs in China and elsewhere.
It only helps the utility companies who are giant polluters in the US, with coal fired and other industrial pollutants. There is no guarantee that the electrical bill for your car will be any cheaper than the fuel costs were. That is, if people can afford to buy new cars at all.
After the big hoorah for stimulous money, companies were invited to submit proposals to the DOE to produce biofuels. The fine print revealed that in exchange for this money the submitters were required to give up their techology rights. Chu then announced that he was establishing a joint technology transfer to China of these US innovations, which were supposed to create a huge number of "Green Jobs". Van Jones was supposed to oversee this role before he was dismissed.
Now, China has announced huge fields of Jatropha facilities to provide the future of biofuels using much of the US innovation Chu obtained in the DOE proposals. In addition, they just signed a deal with Russia to buy 1.8 Trillion cubic feet of natural gas. The photograph shows clapping and smiling Chinese and downcast Putin and Russians.
Meanwhile, Hillary was in Moscow meeting with lower level representatives while Putin was there.
All of this combined with the "Secret Meetings" about not using the dollar for oil and gas that drew so many responses on the Alternet thread, shows that we have no job future, no biofuels support, no manufacturing support and maybe very high costs of electricity for electric cars and consumer electronic equipment, again manufactured in China.
We will be spending borrowed money from China on goods from China to reduce our CO2 emissions. At the same time we will be destroying our economy while China's economy is improved as the Worlds largest polluters due to the "per capita" rule. For those that cannot afford to buy a new electric car, they will now have to buy biofuels from a subsidized, dumping, low wage earning China instead of Saudi Arabia. That is, unless the manufacturing industry is supported in the US without Gov support.
Chu should be dismissed for this trick on the US biofuels industry along with the big oil companies who control this agenda with the power plants and utility companies, while obtaining huge profits as subcontractors to the DOE.
And how much was passed along to the biofuels out of all the monies available? Just $20,000!
The sad part is, China is buying up and consuming the Worlds resources with the money it has made off of the US consumer. They own the Congo, have invested heavily in Central and South America and even are snapping up what there is of US companies, like Solix in Colorado by Shanghai bank.
http://www.mother space jones.com/politics/2009/09/algae-energy-orgy
http://biofuelsdigest.com
[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]
» RE: China's Per Capita versus Total Emissio [USA has been, and remains, "the number one pollute
Posted by: Squarehead
» RE: China's Per Capita versus Total Emission [USA has been, and remains, "the number one pollute
Posted by: Changling
Comments are closed-
Posted by: tony_opmoc on Oct 15, 2009 4:41 AM
Current rating: 2 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Whatever happened to global warming? How freezing temperatures are starting to shatter climate change theory
By Daily Mail Reporter
Last updated at 7:59 AM on 14th October 2009
In the freezing foothills of Montana, a distinctly bitter blast of revolution hangs in the air.
And while the residents of the icy city of Missoula can stave off the -10C chill with thermals and fires, there may be no easy remedy for the wintry snap's repercussions.
The temperature has shattered a 36-year record. Further into the heartlands of America, the city of Billings registered -12C on Sunday, breaking the 1959 barrier of -5C.
Closer to home, Austria is today seeing its earliest snowfall in history with 30 to 40 centimetres already predicted in the mountains.
Such dramatic falls in temperatures provide superficial evidence for those who doubt that the world is threatened by climate change.
But most pertinent of all, of course, are the growing volume of statistics.
According to the National Climatic Data Centre, Earth's hottest recorded year was 1998.
If you put the same question to NASA, scientists will say it was 1934, followed by 1998. The next three runner-ups are 1921, 2006 and 1931.
Which all blows a rather large hole in the argument that the earth is hurtling towards an inescapable heat death prompted by man's abuse of the environment.
Indeed, some experts believe we should forget global warming and turn our attention to an entirely differently phenomenon - global cooling.
The evidence for both remains inconclusive, which is unlikely to help the legions of world leaders meeting in Copenhagen in December to negotiate a new climate change deal.
[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]
» Gravity is a lie
Posted by: Karlh
» Excuse me, but your head appears to be in the sand
Posted by: hotar
» RE: UK's Daily Mail Takes The Piss Out Of The Global Warming Religious Cult
Posted by: Squarehead
» RE: UK's Daily Mail Takes The Piss Out Of The Global Warming Religious Cult
Posted by: tony_opmoc
» RE: UK's Daily Mail Takes The Piss Out Of The Global Warming Religious Cult
Posted by: Squarehead
» Rabid Capitalist
Posted by: leafsong1
» In the Interests of Science, Put a Plastic Bag Over Your Head ..
Posted by: iolanthe
» RE: UK's Daily Mail Takes The Piss Out Of The Global Warming Religious Cult
Posted by: LightningJoe
» Global Warming = Extreme Temperature Swings
Posted by: iolanthe
» Tony_opmoc is a liar and a fraud
Posted by: Paul_C
» I've got a bridge to sell you, tony
Posted by: hurricane hugo
» RE: Great comment!
Posted by: wagner
» RE: Careful tony, you sound like those anti-Global Climate change fanatics
Posted by: Changling
Comments are closed-
Posted by: PJAW on Oct 15, 2009 5:02 AM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Now, we might be totally screwed. Or not. I've always been of the mindset that the globe is in fact experiencing a warming period, and that we humans (as a byproduct of our activity) are making a contribution to that. Given the dire consequences predicted for runaway warming, my position has been, "Let's at least make adjustments to minimize our contribution and perhaps extend our reign here on Earth. It really wouldn't be all that difficult to transition to a new energy technology if we all put our minds to it. It could even be a fun adventure. And we should stop having so many babies while we're at it, eh?"
Of course I'm not the only, and certainly not the loudest, voice carrying that message. I realize I'm actually quite insignificant, and generally a poor example of progress in that direction, but I make an effort.
Well, maybe none of it means shit anyway, and if it truly does, it's likely too late, things are in motion that we cannot reverse and it's only our egos that want us to believe differently.
But wait! Maybe not. You know that whole Mayan Calendar thing and the 25,800 year cycle the planet goes through (with the rest of the solar system) as it travels around the galaxy, periodically passing through the galactic equator? Yeah, you know what I'm talking about don't you? Well, I've read where the earth actually experiences a period of global cooling right after we've made such a pass (which we're doing right now). Sooo..., who the hell really knows? It's actually possible that our contribution to global warming may in fact simply moderate a coming period of cooling. Just like some of the rightwing nut jobs have been yammering about. (though I doubt they've invested much real thought into it)
Of course other things might happen too as we go through this transition period. The temporary alignment with the galactic equator might have subtle effects on the stability of the planets rotational axis or the rate of tectonic movement and other crustal stability. We don't have a written history of what happens every 25,800 years. As a species, we have apparently lived through quite a few, but we don't really know what level of technological development we've achieved in the past. Presumably, where we are now is about as far as we've ever come. At least you would expect there would be SOME evidence if we had gotten this far before, but I don't recall anyone ever finding any and talking about it. Who knows, subtle, global changes could have tremendous impact on what we've established here as "human civilization".
Anyway, it seems that we're once again cresting the first hill on the global roller coaster, keep your arms inside the car and try not to throw up or wet your pants.
[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]
» If Only We Could Be Symbionts, Not Parasites ...
Posted by: iolanthe
Comments are closed-
Posted by: drosera on Oct 15, 2009 5:09 AM
Current rating: Not yet rated [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
That said, this new report does nothing to make me want to change my life habits because the bar is set impossibly high. "Eat, drink, and be merry" I say. The population crash to come will solve the problem. Of course, it may take a while for the planet to recover from its infection
[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]
Comments are closed-
Posted by: peppylapew on Oct 15, 2009 6:08 AM
Current rating: 2 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
An article in Science recently "settled the question" regarding the ice-age cycle: it's caused by tiny changes in incident solar heating, themselves the result of the planet's axial wobble. Not CO2. And guess what? The latest warming trend --- a 19,000-year phase --- is ending. The next stage is global cooling.
article here
[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]
» Funny, they also have articles on global warming causing "more and larger wildfires",
Posted by: Beck
» RE: The real no sh*t moment arrives when [That is not an article in Science.
Posted by: Squarehead
» The difference between reading and understanding
Posted by: leafsong1
» Climate change isn't the only reason to reduce fossil fuel consumption
Posted by: rational_moderate
» RE: Climate change isn't the only reason to reduce fossil fuel consumption
Posted by: iolanthe
» That's what I've always said
Posted by: tommy_slothrop
» RE: Climate change isn't the only reason to reduce fossil fuel consumption
Posted by: Squarehead
» RE: Climate change isn't the only reason to reduce fossil fuel consumption
Posted by: drosera
» It is so nice to see...
Posted by: wagner
Comments are closed-
Posted by: bryangalt on Oct 15, 2009 6:56 AM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
The bomb came from theory and made it into a deliverable weapon in just four years. An example of the monumental effort would be the construction of Oak Ridge Tennessee, which was built from scratch by thousands of workers. When they were done, tens of thousands more moved into the newly constructed city to service the uranium collection facility, a facility so large it used 30% of all the electricity in the country.
Now, if we applied this emergency model and mentality to global warming, and to moving our country to non-carbon energy sources, we would be the undisputed leaders in the cause, but also in a much better position to help save our species from serious hard times. We also would be saving tens of thousands of other species too, which are seriously under represented at the climate talks.
Frankly, personally, I think we are too lazy, and that the corporations are too greedy for us to do what is needed to save ourselves. The fact are in and if we were truly interested in changing enough to save humanity, we would have. That's a shame.
Bryan Galt's Blog
[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]
Comments are closed-
Posted by: JohnTruth2001 on Oct 15, 2009 7:01 AM
Current rating: 2 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Does carbon dioxide really cause climate change??? I own a large bridge in Brooklyn I'd like to sell you!!!
[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]
» With regards to CO2 causing climate change,
Posted by: Karlh
» RE: Gore wins a Nobel prize for climate change, but he's not a climatologist, meteorologist, nor
Posted by: pelican beak
» These ignorant right wingers are trying to turn this into a referendum on Al Gore's likability index
Posted by: Paul_C
» RE: "he's caused no peace to occur!?" Wrong!
Posted by: armorypk
Comments are closed-
Posted by: daw13 on Oct 15, 2009 7:01 AM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
The fundamental assumption of world oligarchs is quite the opposite. This article indicates quite vividly to me that the sort of scenario described by George Orwell in 1984 may be far more likely to emerge than one in which powers-that-be attempt to insure that all citizens of Earth survive the challenges ahead. What shapes up is a war of haves against have-nots, on a global scale. The article, book, film still hiding in the shadows explores not only issues of decency, ethics, morality in this context, but the feasibility of it. Can haves any longer feasibly expect havenots conveniently to disappear? Can haves any longer easily dispense with them if they do not? Or do we now truly inhabit a global community where the fate of some is the fate of all?
Sadly, this question must finally be exposed and dealt with. I have no doubt of the result of the dialogues it may engender. Global class warfare can only result in universal chaos. But until this is clear, our citizens, and those of other well established oligarchies, will only hold their noses and deplore the efforts of their leaders to massacre billions.
[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]
Comments are closed-
Posted by: MarkGoldes on Oct 15, 2009 7:40 AM
Current rating: 3 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
The two pages outline little known breakthrough technology that opens paths to cars that need no fossil fuel or recharge.
Later, more advanced versions can turn cars into power plants, wirelessly able to sell power to the local utility when parked.
Imagine the impact of cars and trucks that emit no pollution and can pay for themselves, as well as end the need to build coal or nuclear power plants!
Visualize electric cars that need no recharge! Also, hybrids with engines that need only one gallon of water as fuel every 1,000 miles. As impossible as it sounds, these technologies are now on the horizon.
Rowan University recently published results of experiments that can only be explained by a new source of energy. Other laboratories can readily reproduce them. Skeptical scientists should see that these experiments are reproduced rapidly, so that they may form their own conclusions.
The experiments indicate that one barrel of water can equal 200 barrels of oil!
These revolutionary technologies hold promise of generating millions of green jobs!
They will change much of what is believed about energy and help reverse some of the trends that threaten catastrophe.
The job now is to accelerate the process!
[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]
» RE: A SURPRISING POSSIBLE SOLUTION [science reality for solutions, not con-artists' imagination.
Posted by: Squarehead
» Repeal the laws of thermodynamics!!!
Posted by: tommy_slothrop
Comments are closed-
Posted by: solrev on Oct 15, 2009 7:43 AM
Current rating: 3 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]
» My best guess without any scientific data is that ALL the people on this planet are going to die.
Posted by: tommy_slothrop
» RE: My best guess without any scientific data is that ALL the people on this planet are going to die.
Posted by: ConnecttheDots
Comments are closed-
Posted by: Archie1954 on Oct 15, 2009 8:50 AM
Current rating: Not yet rated [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]
» RE: What does that mean [We are all going to die!
Posted by: Squarehead
» Pretty much
Posted by: tommy_slothrop
Comments are closed-
Posted by: Prinzowhales on Oct 15, 2009 9:18 AM
Current rating: 2 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
The oceans are screwed up because we are dumping garbage in them...mercury from coal fired electric plants, etc. which has provided us with dangerous levels of that deadly heavy metal in oceans and marine life. Yet, the response of the Oil-igarchy is NOT to move into a rapid mass production of alternatives such as solar panels etc., it has been to give tax credits to buy gas guzzlers...dumb-ass stunts to give billions in subsidies to auto companies through the backdoor with the clunker trade-in farce...and, of course, to give trillions to the banks who ultimately control the oil companies--Rockefeller is to oil what he is to banking, etc....and what did we get for our trillions?--the opportunity to pay interest on new debt.
Obama and McCain are on the same team--Team International Banker--and behind them are lined up the dumb animals who vote mainstream Republican and Democrat...and those who write swill for THE NATION.
[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]
» Guess again
Posted by: leafsong1
» RE: Its not a guess
Posted by: Prinzowhales
Comments are closed-
Posted by: willymack on Oct 15, 2009 9:28 AM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
The only question remaining is how horrible the coming disaster will be.
Will we somehow survive our maniflod follies, only to begin the whole process anew, emerge as a wiser, more humble species, or eke out a grim existence, using Soylent Green to sustain us?
We, with the big brains loudly proclaiming our "superiority" over lifeforms which have susvived natural catastrophes for tens of millions of years are on the cusp of mass suicide, and will most likely take some of the most noble creatures ever to grace this beautiful, tragic world with us.
[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]
Comments are closed-
Posted by: Cherenkovrad on Oct 15, 2009 9:34 AM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
At one time in my life, I had considered becoming one of the monkey-wrenchers, had thought I could help slow if not stop the suicidal fools raping the planet. I know better now in the sense that the earth cares not whether humanity is here or not. No matter how much damage we do, the earth will keep rolling round and round, completely oblivious to its passengers, dead or alive.
I realized also that in the next few years, as the ramifications of our reckless plunder and destruction become manifest, people will begin to die. Not the normal trickle of additional people who may or may not be the victim of global climate change, but an accelerating deluge of death. And, it will not be limited to the third world. No, that far away buffer zone where our mistakes go to roost and kill, will not perform its job as a bullet stopper for our folly. No. We will starve and riot and die of thirst just like the third world. We will have turned out to be human, fallible, and certainly not exceptional.
Thank the invisible sky being of your choice that I am old. I will die within twenty years one way or another. I feel for the young, for my children, who will suffer extraordinary privation, unknown terrors, and a dying civilization.
But mostly I harbor a bit of Schadenfreude, a bit of glee at the fate of humanity, a species that refuses to listen to reason, facts, or anything that asks them to let go of the banana. Greedy monkey, holding onto the banana in the staked down jar, seeing the hunter coming for him, his heart pounding, fear coursing through his veins, knowing what he should do but not doing it lest he be forced to give up the banana he has in his hand. IT'S IN MY HAND!!! The monkey thinks. Look at it with all its technical perfection, its promise of ease and luxury. Isn't it better to hang onto this bit of luxury for as long as possible and maybe, just maybe escape the hunter?
Small sigh and a chuckle. No. The monkey is killed. And so will we be killed by our small-minded insistence on keeping that damned banana in the face of certain destruction.
[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]
» Right There With Ya ...
Posted by: iolanthe
Comments are closed-
Posted by: iolanthe on Oct 15, 2009 10:13 AM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
We could have spent this century ensuring a basic comfortable standard of living for every human on earth, thanks to family planning technology (even *apart* from abortion).
We could have learned to work *with* nature, not against it.
But no. It was more important to let *some* people stash away billions and billions of dollars of other peoples' money. Anything else would have been *COMMUNISM*.
Seems the "Freedom" we're so sworn to uphold involves the freedom to waste, to spoil, to trash this beautiful place.
Sigh.
[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]
» Xtianity is the religion of parasites.
Posted by: pelican beak
Comments are closed-
Posted by: oregoncharles on Oct 15, 2009 12:52 PM
Current rating: 4 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
"Oh, Shit!" Just heard another scary presentation on climate change, last night.
So where's the desperate, drastic action we so desperately need?
Well, Congress is working, oh-so-slowly, on a severely compromised version of cap-and-trade - which is mostly a chance for Gov't Sachs to make another huge killing in yet another new "market" - the "trade" it refers to.
The notion that Goldman Sachs is pulling the strings of our entire political system becomes more plausible all the time.
What isn't plausible is this cap-and-trade bill as a way to end our carbon emissions. Not happening.
So is ANYTHING happening, besides pretty speeches?
Oh, yeah: they're working up a huge bailout for the health-insurance industry, at our expense. I'm so relieved.
If you want Change (without quote marks), you'll have to try something new, like voting for a party that actually believes in it:
www.gp.org
[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]
» Lots of comments are happening.
Posted by: Beck
» RE: False naivete:
Posted by: oregoncharles
» RE: Well, that's Obama: If Al G & Co. are so
Posted by: SamFox
» RE: Well, that's Obama: If Al G & Co. are so
Posted by: countingdaisies
Comments are closed-
Posted by: greenferret on Oct 15, 2009 1:13 PM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Tell President Obama and your senators to support a 40% emissions reduction by 2020 to avert crisis
[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]
Comments are closed-
Posted by: Annapurna1 on Oct 15, 2009 2:08 PM
Current rating: 2 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]
» RE: Unforgivable ignorance.
Posted by: oregoncharles
Comments are closed-
Posted by: dayahka on Oct 15, 2009 7:07 PM
Current rating: 1 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Now, what do we do? Adapt or mitigate? Adapt by moving underground, growing food underground, moving higher up into the mountains, abandoning coastal or low-lying cities? Mitigate by trying to cut off completely the carbon-based civilization? Which one? And will be do whatever is selected?
Nah! There's not a chance of a snowflake in Death Valley that we'll do anything in time. Catastrophe will come, many will die, then from the ashes humans may try to keep going on a much lower level. So long as the corporations are in charge and governments are owned by the moneyed class, so long will we do nothing substantive.
[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]
Comments are closed-
Posted by: jparsons on Oct 15, 2009 7:16 PM
Current rating: Not yet rated [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Animals and methane
[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]
Comments are closed-
Posted by: Bearzerker on Oct 15, 2009 9:17 PM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
and winter, I've already got snow outside my yard and have had it for over a week now...
same as last year...
Dr. Ivan Seminak said it best when he mentioned on the Discovery Channel, that if global warming was a man made catastrophy in the making then why are the other global bodies in our solar system loosing their polar caps in much the same way we are?
personally i think C02 emmissions are a global concern for sure,
but the cause and effects need a real look as i believe the real reason for C02 spikes are;
1.)global deforestation
2.)global population explosion
3.)global desertifcation
4.)global water needs
4.)global ocean overfishing
the list can go on but if you want to curb C02 emmisions... lets get behind global plans to plant trees and shore up dwindling fresh water supplies, and regulations to the global fishing fleet
the free ticket we/mankind has enjoyed for the past millenium[s]is over... get used to it!!!
we need real people to come up with real plans now... quack scientists and fear-mongers need not apply!
[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]
» RE: global warming?... dunno about you guys BUT...
Posted by: leafsong1
Comments are closed-
Posted by: Bearzerker on Oct 15, 2009 9:17 PM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
and winter, I've already got snow outside my yard and have had it for over a week now...
same as last year...
Dr. Ivan Seminak said it best when he mentioned on the Discovery Channel, that if global warming was a man made catastrophy in the making then why are the other global bodies in our solar system loosing their polar caps in much the same way we are?
personally i think C02 emmissions are a global concern for sure,
but the cause and effects need a real look as i believe the real reason for C02 spikes are;
1.)global deforestation
2.)global population explosion
3.)global desertifcation
4.)global water needs
4.)global ocean overfishing
the list can go on but if you want to curb C02 emmisions... lets get behind global plans to plant trees and shore up dwindling fresh water supplies, and regulations to the global fishing fleet
the free ticket we/mankind has enjoyed for the past millenium[s]is over... get used to it!!!
we need real people to come up with real plans now... quack scientists and fear-mongers need not apply!
[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]
» RE: global warming?... dunno about you guys BUT...WE NEED to
Posted by: SamFox
Comments are closed-
Posted by: wagner on Oct 15, 2009 9:19 PM
Current rating: 2 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]
» YOU HEARD IT HERE FIRST, FOLKS!
Posted by: armorypk
» RE: YOU HEARD IT HERE FIRST, FOLKS!
Posted by: SamFox
» RE: Al has made a lotta $$ from his lying tirades.
Posted by: armorypk
» RE: YOU HEARD IT HERE FIRST, FOLKS [sources I do my checking on are Realclimate.org;
Posted by: Squarehead
» A planet unfit for mammals
Posted by: leafsong1
» RE: A planet unfit for mammals
Posted by: wagner
» Why should thinking rational people simply stand idly by while crooks create Armageddon?
Posted by: Paul_C
» This sounds like something from the Creationist Museum
Posted by: Paul_C
» RE: Too much of anything is bad for you and me-nothing less.
Posted by: Changling
Comments are closed-
Posted by: RICHARD RALPH ROEHL on Oct 15, 2009 9:41 PM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Where there is no insight, the people perish. Thus... we predict that corp-rat fascist Amerika will not exist in 30-40 earth years.
[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]
Comments are closed-
Posted by: SamFox on Oct 16, 2009 12:34 AM
Current rating: 3 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
http://www.campaignforliberty.com/blog.php?view=26474
SamFox
[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]
» RE: More like an "OH Bull s$$$ moment" [Monckton is a functional idiot.
Posted by: Squarehead
Comments are closed-
Posted by: fredtowson on Oct 16, 2009 10:20 AM
Current rating: Not yet rated [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
I realized also that in the next few years, as the ramifications of our reckless plunder and destruction become manifest, people will begin to die. Not the normal trickle of additional people who may or may not be the victim of global climate change, but an accelerating deluge of death. And, it will not be limited to the third world. No, that far away buffer zone where our mistakes go to roost and kill, will not perform its job as a bullet stopper for our folly. No. We will starve and riot and die of thirst just like the third world. We will have turned out to be human, fallible, and certainly not exceptional.
Thank the invisible sky being of your choice that I am old. I will die within twenty years one way or another. I feel for инструкции к мобильным телефонам шрифты для word шрифты дизайнерам постеры к сериалам постеры seropol5 the young, for my children, who will suffer extraordinary privation, unknown terrors, and a dying civilization.
[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]
Comments are closed-
Posted by: wolvedrive on Oct 16, 2009 2:10 PM
Current rating: Not yet rated [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]
Comments are closed-
Posted by: LightningJoe on Oct 16, 2009 4:54 PM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
What I never counted on was how deeply the fear of change affects what people do; and how deeply afraid of the very concept of climate change, we as a nation are. I've spent the years since that realization in and out of depression on this score, because the refusal to recognize a problem's existence is a more or less permanent block to solving that problem. Until we collectively acknowledge that climate change is real, that we are responsible, and that change can (can it still?) happen, we are powerless to do anything to call off the major changes in our lives that are coming. And the longer we put off those changes, the harder it will be to change, and the less we can expect from the exercise -- both for us and for what remains of "nature" on our planet.
We've set ourselves up as the caretakers of the planet, and through this too-long courtship with disaster, we finally can see that we are no such thing, for all our self-assured, self-complementing press on the subject. The world is dying on our watch. The nature of the threat means that we can't see the problem even at this point unless we trust science and scientists to find out the truth for us. The nature of the threat also promises decades if not centuries of later leasure in which to reflect on our current sins.
One ironically mixed blessing: people don't live forever. If they did, there would be no end to the climate denial -- because neither does it appear that all of us can change our minds about what we believe, when presented with the clear evidence that a change is in order. I have older relatives who will go to their graves denying AGCC (Anthropogenic Global Climate Change).
But the positive aspect of that -- at least in terms of AGCC response, is that at least they and their Reich-Wing opinions WILL die, leaving behind those of us who are capable of knowing better. Even if that knowledge will be used too late in the game to save most of our planet's species, we still have a prayer of limiting damages if we act SOON.
[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]
Comments are closed-
Posted by: reelman on Oct 19, 2009 3:40 PM
Current rating: Not yet rated [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
This is why Gore refuses debate...why should ANY alarmist refuse debate?
[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]
» RE: PURE BALONEY
Posted by: Squarehead
Comments are closed-
Posted by: Jarhead on Oct 20, 2009 2:01 PM
Current rating: Not yet rated [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
The study is clearly erroneous. If the goal is to reduce GW by reducing GHG, then reducing emissions in China should be top priority.
[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]
Comments are closed-
Posted by: ChicagoWay on Oct 20, 2009 4:58 PM
Current rating: 3 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
The truth is MANY enviro-activist do not give a rat's ass about really solving the problem of GH gases. Many of them only use "climate change" as a phony argument to totally re-make society or are nothing but radical anti-capitalist. Their draconian social goals and sentiments are far more important to many of them.
I've said it before and will say it again. *IF* the far left and eco warriors were really serious about dramatically reducing CO2 and other GH gases one would see MASSIVE protests in FAVOR of expanding nuclear power, which really could go a long way in solving the actual problem.
Instead the far left - especially groups like Green Peace - have been responsible for vigorous protest to shut down the nuclear industry, while at the same time we see the same lame and unworkable solutions offered over and over again for at least 20 years... meaning "solar and wind" ...and which still only represent about 1% of total US electricity generation.
Worse, these zealous social reforners are now trying to sell hugely complicated 'share-the-pain' and world-wide quota schemes - like Cap & Trade or Kyoto-like fantasies - where the US and others take the brunt of the economic pain, while China and others see very little responsiblity in comparison.
Many of these so-called solutions are NOT based on science or current economic reality, but rather RAW emotion and wishful thinking by very zealous and unrealistic social reformers wanting to totally re-make societies or get rid of 'evil capitalism.'
[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]
» RE:Solar and wind can produce all we need and more--if it is used
Posted by: Changling
» No It Can NOT (unforunately)
Posted by: ChicagoWay
Comments are closed-
Posted by: donotworry on Oct 21, 2009 7:01 AM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]
» RE: Until that day
Posted by: sounddy
Comments are closed-
Posted by: Changling on Oct 22, 2009 12:31 PM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
That "Little Ice Age" was caused when too much fresh water melted and shut down the warm ocean current that keeps upper Europe and N. America warmer than it should be. It caused disease, mass death, starvation, wars, civil wars and killed off over a 1/3 of the population. The Inuit adapted, the Vikings did not. Some will, some won't but it will be a death of billions and wars over everything for what is left. This will be a global phenomena Not a good prospect.
Not every place is good for agriculture no matter what the temperature is. Remember soil, rain fall etc in that equation? How about the areas that are still used for agriculture? Ever think about that Mr. Sunshine?
Check out the Permian extinction where CO2 levels and methane shot way up and were involved in the worse extinction event on record. Algae blooms created a toxic environment in the oceans aided in the mass extinction. It is happening now too.
A carbon free or nearly so is the only way out of this. That an controlling our reproduction, consumption rates, recycle our garbage etc. We must become symbiots again with earth and stop being parasites. It is the only way for us.
[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]
» RE: The hoaxers are saying doubt is the best policy to keep things as they are
Posted by: snotnosedkid
» RE: When you are shot in the heart it naturally stops doesn't it?
Posted by: Changling
» RE: When you are shot in the heart it naturally stops doesn't it?
Posted by: snotnosedkid
» RE: We are already in imbalance! Specious at best.
Posted by: Changling
Comments are closed-
Posted by: snotnosedkid on Oct 24, 2009 6:57 PM
Current rating: Not yet rated [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
For those with no memory of 35 years ago, we were told of this evil killer known as "carbon monoxide" which would bring an end to life as we know it if not put in check. Guess what? We put it in check. Todays cars burn so clean that you could seal yourself in a garage and run through a whole tank of gas and not die from carbon monoxide poisoning.
That global crisis is finished. Time to start a new one! Hey, I've got an idea. Let's demonize carbon dioxide. You know, the stuff all people and animals exhale. The stuff trees crave. That way we can convince all the sheeple to feel guilty about breathing. That's a sure fire method to take their money.
What's next to demonize, water?
[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]
» RE: The sky is falling!! NO it is changing
Posted by: Changling
» RE: The sky is falling!! NO it is changing
Posted by: snotnosedkid
» RE: You don't get it Snotnosedkid
Posted by: Changling
Comments are closed-
Posted by: pelican beak on Oct 15, 2009 1:07 AM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
That's been our national characteristic.
[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]
» RE: Carter had the country's oh shit moment in the late 70's
Posted by: iolanthe
» RE: Carter had the country's oh shit moment in the late 70's
Posted by: websurfer
» RE: Carter had the country's oh shit moment in the late 70's
Posted by: PeterW
» RE: Carter had the country's oh shit moment in the late 70's
Posted by: websurfer
» websurfer's attitude - "What? Me responsible?"
Posted by: pelican beak
» RE: websurfer's attitude - "What? Me responsible?"
Posted by: websurfer
» Another conservative nutcase
Posted by: pelican beak
» RE: websurfer's attitude - "What? Me responsible?"
Posted by: LightningJoe
Comments are closed-
Posted by: Revolutionary (Direct) Democracy on Oct 15, 2009 1:24 AM
Current rating: 4 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
They sell guns and then start wars.
They mutate viruses and then sell vaccines.
They make global warming inevitable and then they'll sell us water and food.
FREE AMERICA
REVOLUTIONARY (DIRECT) DEMOCRACY
[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]
» RE: ye of the Beholder
Posted by: richholland
» RE: Eye of the Beholder-mote in yours
Posted by: Changling
Comments are closed-
Posted by: ender on Oct 15, 2009 1:25 AM
Current rating: 4 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
I hate to add something kind of off-topic, but the most immediate danger to humanity is the death of the oceans.
As a species, we seem to be great at being able to ignore the elephant in the room. The oceans are "out of sight, out of mind" but although we can live on a hot Earth, we can't live without healthy oceans.
Think about how long you could live without air conditioning. Now, how long could you go without food? How long without fresh water? How long without oxygen?
We rely on the oceans for all four of those things.
[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]
» RE: Too late, but not humanity's worst problem
Posted by: intrigued
» RE: Too late, but not humanity's worst problem
Posted by: intrigued
» RE: Too late, but not humanity's worst problem
Posted by: pelican beak
» RE: Too late, but not humanity's worst problem
Posted by: femtobeam
» RE: Too late, but not humanity's worst problem
Posted by: ender
» RE: Too late, but not humanity's worst problem
Posted by: femtobeam
» RE: Too late, but not humanity's worst problem
Posted by: MT512
» RE: Too late, but not humanity's worst problem
Posted by: ender
» RE: Too late, but not THE ROOT of humanity's worst problem
Posted by: Crazy H
» RE: Too late, but not THE ROOT of humanity's worst problem
Posted by: robertmc
» RE: Too late, but not THE ROOT of humanity's worst problem
Posted by: ender
» RE: Too late, but not THE ROOT of humanity's worst problem
Posted by: Crazy H
» RE: Too late, but not THE ROOT of humanity's worst problem
Posted by: ender
» RE: Too late, but not humanity's only worst problem
Posted by: Changling
Comments are closed-
Posted by: cplot on Oct 15, 2009 1:52 AM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]
» RE: Addressing climate change is possible and has many great side-effects
Posted by: Crazy H
» RE: Addressing climate change is possible and has many great side-effects
Posted by: pelican beak
» RE: And they've had plenty of those to take place.
Posted by: LightningJoe
Comments are closed-
Posted by: ProfBob on Oct 15, 2009 2:01 AM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
According to an article in Science Daily (April 20, 2009), a survey of the faculty at the State University of New York, which has a very strong environmental science department, the planet’s major environmental problem is overpopulation.. Climate change is second. This echoes the theme of the popular free ebook series “And Gulliver Returns” –In Search of Utopia—(http://andgulliverreturns.info) As one professor at SUNY said “With ten million or even a hundred million people on the planet there would be no warming problem.” It is both the technology and the number of people using it that create so many of our planetary problems.
There is no question that China's one child policy has helped the world and the Chinese economy. Whenever a country attempts to reduce its population it can expect a two or three generation period of problems while deaths reduce to equal births. I hope that China will recognize this fact and keep its own population on the path to reduction--which should begin by 2050. China's actual fertility rate is not 1.0 per woman, but 1.8--the same as Norway's. But that
But it is politically more popular for Western nations to attack warming than overpopulation.
[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]
» RE: ProfKen
Posted by: richholland
» RE: ProfKen
Posted by: jal64
» Meanwhile, Our Society Worships Those Goddamned Duggars
Posted by: iolanthe
» Nah, they're just a freakshow...N/T
Posted by: J-
» So what?
Posted by: themotie
Comments are closed-
Posted by: Lese Majeste on Oct 15, 2009 3:14 AM
Current rating: 4 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Wrong. It's an America that has lived the good life by controlling and using the world's resources for decades to support our extravagent lifestyle.
We've been taught to 'Shop till you drop' and boy do we take that advice to heart.
5% of the world's population that uses up over 25% of its resources and in the process, create a mountain of CO2.
We've created a Pentagon monster to do our dirty work while we sit on our fat asses, eating potato chips and watching "Dancing with the Stars."
A Pentagon that is the world's largest consumer of oil, other than nations.
A Pentagon that is an insatiable beast that always seems to find wars in oil-rich areas.
Until we learn how to restrain ourselves and 'Just say NO' to our impulsive ways, the planet will continue to suffer.
[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]
» Overpopulation AND overconsumption
Posted by: rational_moderate
» RE: They are all Major Problems that affect our Earth
Posted by: Changling
Comments are closed-
Posted by: Squarehead on Oct 15, 2009 3:56 AM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Of, course, there are hopeful signs too. E.g., the PRC had a renewables target of (I think) 7% by 2009. They have surpassed that, and have a new target of 15% by 2020. Not quite enough, but the right attitude.
There are bright signs, on the political horizon. E.g. this committment of the leadership of PRC to combatting climate change, and the greater degree of committment shown by Pres. Barack Obama. And there are technical solutions, which are vast in scale, but have the benefit of being carbon negative in the medium and long term.
The primary example I think of is serious addressment of solar energy, in the model suggested by Richard E Smalley, in his paper 'The Terawatt Challenge' (look it up)
http://cohesion.rice.edu/NaturalSciences/Smalley/ emplibrary/120204%20MRS%20Boston.pdf
Forget about the politics expressed, look only at the science.
In USA, you all consume resources at a level of (equivalence) ~ 22 tons of CO2 production per year, per person. Therefore some people are consuming at a level of 100s of tons. We all need to reduce our consumption to 1 - 2 tons per person. And we can, if we embrace renewable energy, systematic quality, and total recycling. Only thing is, we need to have that in place within 10 (?) years.
I think we can do it.
[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]
» Why So Optimistic?
Posted by: ChicagoWay
» RE: Why So Optimistic? [Nuclear has ZERO possibility of being our way out of this predicament.
Posted by: Squarehead
» America Gets 19.4% of Electricity Needs From Just 65 Nuke Plants
Posted by: ChicagoWay
» Don't rely on nuclear
Posted by: LightningJoe
» Nonsense Joe
Posted by: ChicagoWay
» RE: The page cannot be found n/m
Posted by: Changling
Comments are closed-
Posted by: femtobeam on Oct 15, 2009 4:10 AM
Current rating: 3 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
The only purpose of attaching a dollar figure to a climate change debate is for Hu Jintau to say that until China's giant population has the same standard of living as the US they will continue to force trade issues at the expense of US jobs to China.
They are the number one polluter and they should not be given any incentives to continue their population trends by making pollution a per capita issue.
Oddly, Secretary Chu, in opposition to Obama, was quoted as saying if he was making the decision, he would put all of DOE money into electric vehicles. This does nothing to benefit the US economy with the exception of auto workers who also have to compete with low wage jobs in China and elsewhere.
It only helps the utility companies who are giant polluters in the US, with coal fired and other industrial pollutants. There is no guarantee that the electrical bill for your car will be any cheaper than the fuel costs were. That is, if people can afford to buy new cars at all.
After the big hoorah for stimulous money, companies were invited to submit proposals to the DOE to produce biofuels. The fine print revealed that in exchange for this money the submitters were required to give up their techology rights. Chu then announced that he was establishing a joint technology transfer to China of these US innovations, which were supposed to create a huge number of "Green Jobs". Van Jones was supposed to oversee this role before he was dismissed.
Now, China has announced huge fields of Jatropha facilities to provide the future of biofuels using much of the US innovation Chu obtained in the DOE proposals. In addition, they just signed a deal with Russia to buy 1.8 Trillion cubic feet of natural gas. The photograph shows clapping and smiling Chinese and downcast Putin and Russians.
Meanwhile, Hillary was in Moscow meeting with lower level representatives while Putin was there.
All of this combined with the "Secret Meetings" about not using the dollar for oil and gas that drew so many responses on the Alternet thread, shows that we have no job future, no biofuels support, no manufacturing support and maybe very high costs of electricity for electric cars and consumer electronic equipment, again manufactured in China.
We will be spending borrowed money from China on goods from China to reduce our CO2 emissions. At the same time we will be destroying our economy while China's economy is improved as the Worlds largest polluters due to the "per capita" rule. For those that cannot afford to buy a new electric car, they will now have to buy biofuels from a subsidized, dumping, low wage earning China instead of Saudi Arabia. That is, unless the manufacturing industry is supported in the US without Gov support.
Chu should be dismissed for this trick on the US biofuels industry along with the big oil companies who control this agenda with the power plants and utility companies, while obtaining huge profits as subcontractors to the DOE.
And how much was passed along to the biofuels out of all the monies available? Just $20,000!
The sad part is, China is buying up and consuming the Worlds resources with the money it has made off of the US consumer. They own the Congo, have invested heavily in Central and South America and even are snapping up what there is of US companies, like Solix in Colorado by Shanghai bank.
http://www.mother space jones.com/politics/2009/09/algae-energy-orgy
http://biofuelsdigest.com
[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]
» RE: China's Per Capita versus Total Emissio [USA has been, and remains, "the number one pollute
Posted by: Squarehead
» RE: China's Per Capita versus Total Emission [USA has been, and remains, "the number one pollute
Posted by: Changling
Comments are closed-
Posted by: tony_opmoc on Oct 15, 2009 4:41 AM
Current rating: 2 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Whatever happened to global warming? How freezing temperatures are starting to shatter climate change theory
By Daily Mail Reporter
Last updated at 7:59 AM on 14th October 2009
In the freezing foothills of Montana, a distinctly bitter blast of revolution hangs in the air.
And while the residents of the icy city of Missoula can stave off the -10C chill with thermals and fires, there may be no easy remedy for the wintry snap's repercussions.
The temperature has shattered a 36-year record. Further into the heartlands of America, the city of Billings registered -12C on Sunday, breaking the 1959 barrier of -5C.
Closer to home, Austria is today seeing its earliest snowfall in history with 30 to 40 centimetres already predicted in the mountains.
Such dramatic falls in temperatures provide superficial evidence for those who doubt that the world is threatened by climate change.
But most pertinent of all, of course, are the growing volume of statistics.
According to the National Climatic Data Centre, Earth's hottest recorded year was 1998.
If you put the same question to NASA, scientists will say it was 1934, followed by 1998. The next three runner-ups are 1921, 2006 and 1931.
Which all blows a rather large hole in the argument that the earth is hurtling towards an inescapable heat death prompted by man's abuse of the environment.
Indeed, some experts believe we should forget global warming and turn our attention to an entirely differently phenomenon - global cooling.
The evidence for both remains inconclusive, which is unlikely to help the legions of world leaders meeting in Copenhagen in December to negotiate a new climate change deal.
[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]
» Gravity is a lie
Posted by: Karlh
» Excuse me, but your head appears to be in the sand
Posted by: hotar
» RE: UK's Daily Mail Takes The Piss Out Of The Global Warming Religious Cult
Posted by: Squarehead
» RE: UK's Daily Mail Takes The Piss Out Of The Global Warming Religious Cult
Posted by: tony_opmoc
» RE: UK's Daily Mail Takes The Piss Out Of The Global Warming Religious Cult
Posted by: Squarehead
» Rabid Capitalist
Posted by: leafsong1
» In the Interests of Science, Put a Plastic Bag Over Your Head ..
Posted by: iolanthe
» RE: UK's Daily Mail Takes The Piss Out Of The Global Warming Religious Cult
Posted by: LightningJoe
» Global Warming = Extreme Temperature Swings
Posted by: iolanthe
» Tony_opmoc is a liar and a fraud
Posted by: Paul_C
» I've got a bridge to sell you, tony
Posted by: hurricane hugo
» RE: Great comment!
Posted by: wagner
» RE: Careful tony, you sound like those anti-Global Climate change fanatics
Posted by: Changling
Comments are closed-
Posted by: PJAW on Oct 15, 2009 5:02 AM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Now, we might be totally screwed. Or not. I've always been of the mindset that the globe is in fact experiencing a warming period, and that we humans (as a byproduct of our activity) are making a contribution to that. Given the dire consequences predicted for runaway warming, my position has been, "Let's at least make adjustments to minimize our contribution and perhaps extend our reign here on Earth. It really wouldn't be all that difficult to transition to a new energy technology if we all put our minds to it. It could even be a fun adventure. And we should stop having so many babies while we're at it, eh?"
Of course I'm not the only, and certainly not the loudest, voice carrying that message. I realize I'm actually quite insignificant, and generally a poor example of progress in that direction, but I make an effort.
Well, maybe none of it means shit anyway, and if it truly does, it's likely too late, things are in motion that we cannot reverse and it's only our egos that want us to believe differently.
But wait! Maybe not. You know that whole Mayan Calendar thing and the 25,800 year cycle the planet goes through (with the rest of the solar system) as it travels around the galaxy, periodically passing through the galactic equator? Yeah, you know what I'm talking about don't you? Well, I've read where the earth actually experiences a period of global cooling right after we've made such a pass (which we're doing right now). Sooo..., who the hell really knows? It's actually possible that our contribution to global warming may in fact simply moderate a coming period of cooling. Just like some of the rightwing nut jobs have been yammering about. (though I doubt they've invested much real thought into it)
Of course other things might happen too as we go through this transition period. The temporary alignment with the galactic equator might have subtle effects on the stability of the planets rotational axis or the rate of tectonic movement and other crustal stability. We don't have a written history of what happens every 25,800 years. As a species, we have apparently lived through quite a few, but we don't really know what level of technological development we've achieved in the past. Presumably, where we are now is about as far as we've ever come. At least you would expect there would be SOME evidence if we had gotten this far before, but I don't recall anyone ever finding any and talking about it. Who knows, subtle, global changes could have tremendous impact on what we've established here as "human civilization".
Anyway, it seems that we're once again cresting the first hill on the global roller coaster, keep your arms inside the car and try not to throw up or wet your pants.
[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]
» If Only We Could Be Symbionts, Not Parasites ...
Posted by: iolanthe
Comments are closed-
Posted by: drosera on Oct 15, 2009 5:09 AM
Current rating: Not yet rated [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
That said, this new report does nothing to make me want to change my life habits because the bar is set impossibly high. "Eat, drink, and be merry" I say. The population crash to come will solve the problem. Of course, it may take a while for the planet to recover from its infection
[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]
Comments are closed-
Posted by: peppylapew on Oct 15, 2009 6:08 AM
Current rating: 2 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
An article in Science recently "settled the question" regarding the ice-age cycle: it's caused by tiny changes in incident solar heating, themselves the result of the planet's axial wobble. Not CO2. And guess what? The latest warming trend --- a 19,000-year phase --- is ending. The next stage is global cooling.
article here
[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]
» Funny, they also have articles on global warming causing "more and larger wildfires",
Posted by: Beck
» RE: The real no sh*t moment arrives when [That is not an article in Science.
Posted by: Squarehead
» The difference between reading and understanding
Posted by: leafsong1
» Climate change isn't the only reason to reduce fossil fuel consumption
Posted by: rational_moderate
» RE: Climate change isn't the only reason to reduce fossil fuel consumption
Posted by: iolanthe
» That's what I've always said
Posted by: tommy_slothrop
» RE: Climate change isn't the only reason to reduce fossil fuel consumption
Posted by: Squarehead
» RE: Climate change isn't the only reason to reduce fossil fuel consumption
Posted by: drosera
» It is so nice to see...
Posted by: wagner
Comments are closed-
Posted by: bryangalt on Oct 15, 2009 6:56 AM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
The bomb came from theory and made it into a deliverable weapon in just four years. An example of the monumental effort would be the construction of Oak Ridge Tennessee, which was built from scratch by thousands of workers. When they were done, tens of thousands more moved into the newly constructed city to service the uranium collection facility, a facility so large it used 30% of all the electricity in the country.
Now, if we applied this emergency model and mentality to global warming, and to moving our country to non-carbon energy sources, we would be the undisputed leaders in the cause, but also in a much better position to help save our species from serious hard times. We also would be saving tens of thousands of other species too, which are seriously under represented at the climate talks.
Frankly, personally, I think we are too lazy, and that the corporations are too greedy for us to do what is needed to save ourselves. The fact are in and if we were truly interested in changing enough to save humanity, we would have. That's a shame.
Bryan Galt's Blog
[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]
Comments are closed-
Posted by: JohnTruth2001 on Oct 15, 2009 7:01 AM
Current rating: 2 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Does carbon dioxide really cause climate change??? I own a large bridge in Brooklyn I'd like to sell you!!!
[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]
» With regards to CO2 causing climate change,
Posted by: Karlh
» RE: Gore wins a Nobel prize for climate change, but he's not a climatologist, meteorologist, nor
Posted by: pelican beak
» These ignorant right wingers are trying to turn this into a referendum on Al Gore's likability index
Posted by: Paul_C
» RE: "he's caused no peace to occur!?" Wrong!
Posted by: armorypk
Comments are closed-
Posted by: daw13 on Oct 15, 2009 7:01 AM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
The fundamental assumption of world oligarchs is quite the opposite. This article indicates quite vividly to me that the sort of scenario described by George Orwell in 1984 may be far more likely to emerge than one in which powers-that-be attempt to insure that all citizens of Earth survive the challenges ahead. What shapes up is a war of haves against have-nots, on a global scale. The article, book, film still hiding in the shadows explores not only issues of decency, ethics, morality in this context, but the feasibility of it. Can haves any longer feasibly expect havenots conveniently to disappear? Can haves any longer easily dispense with them if they do not? Or do we now truly inhabit a global community where the fate of some is the fate of all?
Sadly, this question must finally be exposed and dealt with. I have no doubt of the result of the dialogues it may engender. Global class warfare can only result in universal chaos. But until this is clear, our citizens, and those of other well established oligarchies, will only hold their noses and deplore the efforts of their leaders to massacre billions.
[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]
Comments are closed-
Posted by: MarkGoldes on Oct 15, 2009 7:40 AM
Current rating: 3 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
The two pages outline little known breakthrough technology that opens paths to cars that need no fossil fuel or recharge.
Later, more advanced versions can turn cars into power plants, wirelessly able to sell power to the local utility when parked.
Imagine the impact of cars and trucks that emit no pollution and can pay for themselves, as well as end the need to build coal or nuclear power plants!
Visualize electric cars that need no recharge! Also, hybrids with engines that need only one gallon of water as fuel every 1,000 miles. As impossible as it sounds, these technologies are now on the horizon.
Rowan University recently published results of experiments that can only be explained by a new source of energy. Other laboratories can readily reproduce them. Skeptical scientists should see that these experiments are reproduced rapidly, so that they may form their own conclusions.
The experiments indicate that one barrel of water can equal 200 barrels of oil!
These revolutionary technologies hold promise of generating millions of green jobs!
They will change much of what is believed about energy and help reverse some of the trends that threaten catastrophe.
The job now is to accelerate the process!
[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]
» RE: A SURPRISING POSSIBLE SOLUTION [science reality for solutions, not con-artists' imagination.
Posted by: Squarehead
» Repeal the laws of thermodynamics!!!
Posted by: tommy_slothrop
Comments are closed-
Posted by: solrev on Oct 15, 2009 7:43 AM
Current rating: 3 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]
» My best guess without any scientific data is that ALL the people on this planet are going to die.
Posted by: tommy_slothrop
» RE: My best guess without any scientific data is that ALL the people on this planet are going to die.
Posted by: ConnecttheDots
Comments are closed-
Posted by: Archie1954 on Oct 15, 2009 8:50 AM
Current rating: Not yet rated [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]
» RE: What does that mean [We are all going to die!
Posted by: Squarehead
» Pretty much
Posted by: tommy_slothrop
Comments are closed-
Posted by: Prinzowhales on Oct 15, 2009 9:18 AM
Current rating: 2 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
The oceans are screwed up because we are dumping garbage in them...mercury from coal fired electric plants, etc. which has provided us with dangerous levels of that deadly heavy metal in oceans and marine life. Yet, the response of the Oil-igarchy is NOT to move into a rapid mass production of alternatives such as solar panels etc., it has been to give tax credits to buy gas guzzlers...dumb-ass stunts to give billions in subsidies to auto companies through the backdoor with the clunker trade-in farce...and, of course, to give trillions to the banks who ultimately control the oil companies--Rockefeller is to oil what he is to banking, etc....and what did we get for our trillions?--the opportunity to pay interest on new debt.
Obama and McCain are on the same team--Team International Banker--and behind them are lined up the dumb animals who vote mainstream Republican and Democrat...and those who write swill for THE NATION.
[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]
» Guess again
Posted by: leafsong1
» RE: Its not a guess
Posted by: Prinzowhales
Comments are closed-
Posted by: willymack on Oct 15, 2009 9:28 AM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
The only question remaining is how horrible the coming disaster will be.
Will we somehow survive our maniflod follies, only to begin the whole process anew, emerge as a wiser, more humble species, or eke out a grim existence, using Soylent Green to sustain us?
We, with the big brains loudly proclaiming our "superiority" over lifeforms which have susvived natural catastrophes for tens of millions of years are on the cusp of mass suicide, and will most likely take some of the most noble creatures ever to grace this beautiful, tragic world with us.
[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]
Comments are closed-
Posted by: Cherenkovrad on Oct 15, 2009 9:34 AM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
At one time in my life, I had considered becoming one of the monkey-wrenchers, had thought I could help slow if not stop the suicidal fools raping the planet. I know better now in the sense that the earth cares not whether humanity is here or not. No matter how much damage we do, the earth will keep rolling round and round, completely oblivious to its passengers, dead or alive.
I realized also that in the next few years, as the ramifications of our reckless plunder and destruction become manifest, people will begin to die. Not the normal trickle of additional people who may or may not be the victim of global climate change, but an accelerating deluge of death. And, it will not be limited to the third world. No, that far away buffer zone where our mistakes go to roost and kill, will not perform its job as a bullet stopper for our folly. No. We will starve and riot and die of thirst just like the third world. We will have turned out to be human, fallible, and certainly not exceptional.
Thank the invisible sky being of your choice that I am old. I will die within twenty years one way or another. I feel for the young, for my children, who will suffer extraordinary privation, unknown terrors, and a dying civilization.
But mostly I harbor a bit of Schadenfreude, a bit of glee at the fate of humanity, a species that refuses to listen to reason, facts, or anything that asks them to let go of the banana. Greedy monkey, holding onto the banana in the staked down jar, seeing the hunter coming for him, his heart pounding, fear coursing through his veins, knowing what he should do but not doing it lest he be forced to give up the banana he has in his hand. IT'S IN MY HAND!!! The monkey thinks. Look at it with all its technical perfection, its promise of ease and luxury. Isn't it better to hang onto this bit of luxury for as long as possible and maybe, just maybe escape the hunter?
Small sigh and a chuckle. No. The monkey is killed. And so will we be killed by our small-minded insistence on keeping that damned banana in the face of certain destruction.
[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]
» Right There With Ya ...
Posted by: iolanthe
Comments are closed-
Posted by: iolanthe on Oct 15, 2009 10:13 AM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
We could have spent this century ensuring a basic comfortable standard of living for every human on earth, thanks to family planning technology (even *apart* from abortion).
We could have learned to work *with* nature, not against it.
But no. It was more important to let *some* people stash away billions and billions of dollars of other peoples' money. Anything else would have been *COMMUNISM*.
Seems the "Freedom" we're so sworn to uphold involves the freedom to waste, to spoil, to trash this beautiful place.
Sigh.
[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]
» Xtianity is the religion of parasites.
Posted by: pelican beak
Comments are closed-
Posted by: oregoncharles on Oct 15, 2009 12:52 PM
Current rating: 4 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
"Oh, Shit!" Just heard another scary presentation on climate change, last night.
So where's the desperate, drastic action we so desperately need?
Well, Congress is working, oh-so-slowly, on a severely compromised version of cap-and-trade - which is mostly a chance for Gov't Sachs to make another huge killing in yet another new "market" - the "trade" it refers to.
The notion that Goldman Sachs is pulling the strings of our entire political system becomes more plausible all the time.
What isn't plausible is this cap-and-trade bill as a way to end our carbon emissions. Not happening.
So is ANYTHING happening, besides pretty speeches?
Oh, yeah: they're working up a huge bailout for the health-insurance industry, at our expense. I'm so relieved.
If you want Change (without quote marks), you'll have to try something new, like voting for a party that actually believes in it:
www.gp.org
[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]
» Lots of comments are happening.
Posted by: Beck
» RE: False naivete:
Posted by: oregoncharles
» RE: Well, that's Obama: If Al G & Co. are so
Posted by: SamFox
» RE: Well, that's Obama: If Al G & Co. are so
Posted by: countingdaisies
Comments are closed-
Posted by: greenferret on Oct 15, 2009 1:13 PM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Tell President Obama and your senators to support a 40% emissions reduction by 2020 to avert crisis
[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]
Comments are closed-
Posted by: Annapurna1 on Oct 15, 2009 2:08 PM
Current rating: 2 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]
» RE: Unforgivable ignorance.
Posted by: oregoncharles
Comments are closed-
Posted by: dayahka on Oct 15, 2009 7:07 PM
Current rating: 1 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Now, what do we do? Adapt or mitigate? Adapt by moving underground, growing food underground, moving higher up into the mountains, abandoning coastal or low-lying cities? Mitigate by trying to cut off completely the carbon-based civilization? Which one? And will be do whatever is selected?
Nah! There's not a chance of a snowflake in Death Valley that we'll do anything in time. Catastrophe will come, many will die, then from the ashes humans may try to keep going on a much lower level. So long as the corporations are in charge and governments are owned by the moneyed class, so long will we do nothing substantive.
[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]
Comments are closed-
Posted by: jparsons on Oct 15, 2009 7:16 PM
Current rating: Not yet rated [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Animals and methane
[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]
Comments are closed-
Posted by: Bearzerker on Oct 15, 2009 9:17 PM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
and winter, I've already got snow outside my yard and have had it for over a week now...
same as last year...
Dr. Ivan Seminak said it best when he mentioned on the Discovery Channel, that if global warming was a man made catastrophy in the making then why are the other global bodies in our solar system loosing their polar caps in much the same way we are?
personally i think C02 emmissions are a global concern for sure,
but the cause and effects need a real look as i believe the real reason for C02 spikes are;
1.)global deforestation
2.)global population explosion
3.)global desertifcation
4.)global water needs
4.)global ocean overfishing
the list can go on but if you want to curb C02 emmisions... lets get behind global plans to plant trees and shore up dwindling fresh water supplies, and regulations to the global fishing fleet
the free ticket we/mankind has enjoyed for the past millenium[s]is over... get used to it!!!
we need real people to come up with real plans now... quack scientists and fear-mongers need not apply!
[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]
» RE: global warming?... dunno about you guys BUT...
Posted by: leafsong1
Comments are closed-
Posted by: Bearzerker on Oct 15, 2009 9:17 PM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
and winter, I've already got snow outside my yard and have had it for over a week now...
same as last year...
Dr. Ivan Seminak said it best when he mentioned on the Discovery Channel, that if global warming was a man made catastrophy in the making then why are the other global bodies in our solar system loosing their polar caps in much the same way we are?
personally i think C02 emmissions are a global concern for sure,
but the cause and effects need a real look as i believe the real reason for C02 spikes are;
1.)global deforestation
2.)global population explosion
3.)global desertifcation
4.)global water needs
4.)global ocean overfishing
the list can go on but if you want to curb C02 emmisions... lets get behind global plans to plant trees and shore up dwindling fresh water supplies, and regulations to the global fishing fleet
the free ticket we/mankind has enjoyed for the past millenium[s]is over... get used to it!!!
we need real people to come up with real plans now... quack scientists and fear-mongers need not apply!
[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]
» RE: global warming?... dunno about you guys BUT...WE NEED to
Posted by: SamFox
Comments are closed-
Posted by: wagner on Oct 15, 2009 9:19 PM
Current rating: 2 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]
» YOU HEARD IT HERE FIRST, FOLKS!
Posted by: armorypk
» RE: YOU HEARD IT HERE FIRST, FOLKS!
Posted by: SamFox
» RE: Al has made a lotta $$ from his lying tirades.
Posted by: armorypk
» RE: YOU HEARD IT HERE FIRST, FOLKS [sources I do my checking on are Realclimate.org;
Posted by: Squarehead
» A planet unfit for mammals
Posted by: leafsong1
» RE: A planet unfit for mammals
Posted by: wagner
» Why should thinking rational people simply stand idly by while crooks create Armageddon?
Posted by: Paul_C
» This sounds like something from the Creationist Museum
Posted by: Paul_C
» RE: Too much of anything is bad for you and me-nothing less.
Posted by: Changling
Comments are closed-
Posted by: RICHARD RALPH ROEHL on Oct 15, 2009 9:41 PM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Where there is no insight, the people perish. Thus... we predict that corp-rat fascist Amerika will not exist in 30-40 earth years.
[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]
Comments are closed-
Posted by: SamFox on Oct 16, 2009 12:34 AM
Current rating: 3 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
http://www.campaignforliberty.com/blog.php?view=26474
SamFox
[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]
» RE: More like an "OH Bull s$$$ moment" [Monckton is a functional idiot.
Posted by: Squarehead
Comments are closed-
Posted by: fredtowson on Oct 16, 2009 10:20 AM
Current rating: Not yet rated [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
I realized also that in the next few years, as the ramifications of our reckless plunder and destruction become manifest, people will begin to die. Not the normal trickle of additional people who may or may not be the victim of global climate change, but an accelerating deluge of death. And, it will not be limited to the third world. No, that far away buffer zone where our mistakes go to roost and kill, will not perform its job as a bullet stopper for our folly. No. We will starve and riot and die of thirst just like the third world. We will have turned out to be human, fallible, and certainly not exceptional.
Thank the invisible sky being of your choice that I am old. I will die within twenty years one way or another. I feel for инструкции к мобильным телефонам шрифты для word шрифты дизайнерам постеры к сериалам постеры seropol5 the young, for my children, who will suffer extraordinary privation, unknown terrors, and a dying civilization.
[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]
Comments are closed-
Posted by: wolvedrive on Oct 16, 2009 2:10 PM
Current rating: Not yet rated [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]
Comments are closed-
Posted by: LightningJoe on Oct 16, 2009 4:54 PM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
What I never counted on was how deeply the fear of change affects what people do; and how deeply afraid of the very concept of climate change, we as a nation are. I've spent the years since that realization in and out of depression on this score, because the refusal to recognize a problem's existence is a more or less permanent block to solving that problem. Until we collectively acknowledge that climate change is real, that we are responsible, and that change can (can it still?) happen, we are powerless to do anything to call off the major changes in our lives that are coming. And the longer we put off those changes, the harder it will be to change, and the less we can expect from the exercise -- both for us and for what remains of "nature" on our planet.
We've set ourselves up as the caretakers of the planet, and through this too-long courtship with disaster, we finally can see that we are no such thing, for all our self-assured, self-complementing press on the subject. The world is dying on our watch. The nature of the threat means that we can't see the problem even at this point unless we trust science and scientists to find out the truth for us. The nature of the threat also promises decades if not centuries of later leasure in which to reflect on our current sins.
One ironically mixed blessing: people don't live forever. If they did, there would be no end to the climate denial -- because neither does it appear that all of us can change our minds about what we believe, when presented with the clear evidence that a change is in order. I have older relatives who will go to their graves denying AGCC (Anthropogenic Global Climate Change).
But the positive aspect of that -- at least in terms of AGCC response, is that at least they and their Reich-Wing opinions WILL die, leaving behind those of us who are capable of knowing better. Even if that knowledge will be used too late in the game to save most of our planet's species, we still have a prayer of limiting damages if we act SOON.
[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]
Comments are closed-
Posted by: reelman on Oct 19, 2009 3:40 PM
Current rating: Not yet rated [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
This is why Gore refuses debate...why should ANY alarmist refuse debate?
[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]
» RE: PURE BALONEY
Posted by: Squarehead
Comments are closed-
Posted by: Jarhead on Oct 20, 2009 2:01 PM
Current rating: Not yet rated [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
The study is clearly erroneous. If the goal is to reduce GW by reducing GHG, then reducing emissions in China should be top priority.
[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]
Comments are closed-
Posted by: ChicagoWay on Oct 20, 2009 4:58 PM
Current rating: 3 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
The truth is MANY enviro-activist do not give a rat's ass about really solving the problem of GH gases. Many of them only use "climate change" as a phony argument to totally re-make society or are nothing but radical anti-capitalist. Their draconian social goals and sentiments are far more important to many of them.
I've said it before and will say it again. *IF* the far left and eco warriors were really serious about dramatically reducing CO2 and other GH gases one would see MASSIVE protests in FAVOR of expanding nuclear power, which really could go a long way in solving the actual problem.
Instead the far left - especially groups like Green Peace - have been responsible for vigorous protest to shut down the nuclear industry, while at the same time we see the same lame and unworkable solutions offered over and over again for at least 20 years... meaning "solar and wind" ...and which still only represent about 1% of total US electricity generation.
Worse, these zealous social reforners are now trying to sell hugely complicated 'share-the-pain' and world-wide quota schemes - like Cap & Trade or Kyoto-like fantasies - where the US and others take the brunt of the economic pain, while China and others see very little responsiblity in comparison.
Many of these so-called solutions are NOT based on science or current economic reality, but rather RAW emotion and wishful thinking by very zealous and unrealistic social reformers wanting to totally re-make societies or get rid of 'evil capitalism.'
[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]
» RE:Solar and wind can produce all we need and more--if it is used
Posted by: Changling
» No It Can NOT (unforunately)
Posted by: ChicagoWay
Comments are closed-
Posted by: donotworry on Oct 21, 2009 7:01 AM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]
» RE: Until that day
Posted by: sounddy
Comments are closed-
Posted by: Changling on Oct 22, 2009 12:31 PM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
That "Little Ice Age" was caused when too much fresh water melted and shut down the warm ocean current that keeps upper Europe and N. America warmer than it should be. It caused disease, mass death, starvation, wars, civil wars and killed off over a 1/3 of the population. The Inuit adapted, the Vikings did not. Some will, some won't but it will be a death of billions and wars over everything for what is left. This will be a global phenomena Not a good prospect.
Not every place is good for agriculture no matter what the temperature is. Remember soil, rain fall etc in that equation? How about the areas that are still used for agriculture? Ever think about that Mr. Sunshine?
Check out the Permian extinction where CO2 levels and methane shot way up and were involved in the worse extinction event on record. Algae blooms created a toxic environment in the oceans aided in the mass extinction. It is happening now too.
A carbon free or nearly so is the only way out of this. That an controlling our reproduction, consumption rates, recycle our garbage etc. We must become symbiots again with earth and stop being parasites. It is the only way for us.
[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]
» RE: The hoaxers are saying doubt is the best policy to keep things as they are
Posted by: snotnosedkid
» RE: When you are shot in the heart it naturally stops doesn't it?
Posted by: Changling
» RE: When you are shot in the heart it naturally stops doesn't it?
Posted by: snotnosedkid
» RE: We are already in imbalance! Specious at best.
Posted by: Changling
Comments are closed-
Posted by: snotnosedkid on Oct 24, 2009 6:57 PM
Current rating: Not yet rated [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
For those with no memory of 35 years ago, we were told of this evil killer known as "carbon monoxide" which would bring an end to life as we know it if not put in check. Guess what? We put it in check. Todays cars burn so clean that you could seal yourself in a garage and run through a whole tank of gas and not die from carbon monoxide poisoning.
That global crisis is finished. Time to start a new one! Hey, I've got an idea. Let's demonize carbon dioxide. You know, the stuff all people and animals exhale. The stuff trees crave. That way we can convince all the sheeple to feel guilty about breathing. That's a sure fire method to take their money.
What's next to demonize, water?
[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]
» RE: The sky is falling!! NO it is changing
Posted by: Changling
» RE: The sky is falling!! NO it is changing
Posted by: snotnosedkid
» RE: You don't get it Snotnosedkid
Posted by: Changling
Trial Begins for Activist Who Fought to Protect Federal Lands from Drilling -- Join the Protest
California Carbon Trading Allows Timber Companies to Sell CO2 Credits for Their Worst Logging Practices
How to Answer the Dumb Things Climate Deniers Say




