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A Millionaire with a Super Yacht Is a Larger Strain on Resources Than Hundreds of Peasant Families

It's time we had the guts to name the problem. It isn't population; it's consumption. It's not sex; it's money. It's not the poor; it's the rich.
October 2, 2009  |  
 
 
 
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It's no coincidence that most of those who are obsessed with population growth are post-reproductive wealthy white men: it's about the only environmental issue for which they can't be blamed. The brilliant earth systems scientist James Lovelock, for example, claimed last month that "those who fail to see that population growth and climate change are two sides of the same coin are either ignorant or hiding from the truth. These two huge environmental problems are inseparable and to discuss one while ignoring the other is irrational." But it's Lovelock who is being ignorant and irrational.

A paper published yesterday in the journal Environment and Urbanization shows that the places where population has been growing fastest are those in which carbon dioxide has been growing most slowly, and vice versa. Between 1980 and 2005, for example, Sub-Saharan Africa produced 18.5% of the world's population growth and just 2.4% of the growth in CO2. North America turned out 4% of the extra people, but 14% of the extra emissions. Sixty-three per cent of the world's population growth happened in places with very low emissions.

Even this does not capture it. The paper points out that around one sixth of the world's population is so poor that it produces no significant emissions at all. This is also the group whose growth rate is likely to be highest. Households in India earning less than 3,000 rupees a month use a fifth of the electricity per head and one seventh of the transport fuel of households earning Rs30,000 or more. Street sleepers use almost nothing. Those who live by processing waste (a large part of the urban underclass) often save more greenhouse gases than they produce.

Many of the emissions for which poorer countries are blamed should in fairness belong to us. Gas flaring by companies exporting oil from Nigeria, for example, has produced more greenhouse gases than all other sources in sub-Saharan Africa put together. Even deforestation in poor countries is driven mostly by commercial operations delivering timber, meat and animal feed to rich consumers. The rural poor do far less harm.

The paper's author, David Satterthwaite, points out that the old formula taught to all students of development -- that total impact equals population times affluence times technology (I=PAT) -- is wrong. Total impact should be measured as I=CAT: consumers times affluence times technology. Many of the world's people use so little that they wouldn't figure in this equation. They are the ones who have most children.

While there's a weak correlation between global warming and population growth, there's a strong correlation between global warming and wealth. I've been taking a look at a few superyachts, as I'll need somewhere to entertain Labour ministers in the style to which they're accustomed. First I went through the plans for Royal Falcon Fleet's RFF135, but when I discovered that it burns only 750 litres of fuel per hour I realised that it wasn't going to impress Lord Mandelson. I might raise half an eyebrow in Brighton with the Overmarine Mangusta 105, which sucks up 850 l/hr. But the raft that's really caught my eye is made by Wally Yachts in Monaco. The WallyPower 118 (which gives total wallies a sensation of power) consumes 3400 l/hr when travelling at 60 knots. That's nearly one litre per second. Another way of putting it is 31 litres per kilometre.

Of course to make a real splash I'll have to shell out on teak and mahogany fittings, carry a few jet skis and a mini-submarine, ferry my guests to the marina by private plane and helicopter, offer them bluefin tuna sushi and beluga caviar and drive the beast so fast that I mash up half the marine life of the Mediterranean. As the owner of one of these yachts I'll do more damage to the biosphere in ten minutes than most Africans inflict in a lifetime. Now we're burning, baby.


George Monbiot is the author Heat: How to Stop the Planet from Burning. Read more of his writings at Monbiot.com. This article originally appeared in the Guardian.
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Eureka! We Have A Winner!
Posted by: Lily H. on Oct 3, 2009 12:52 AM   
Current rating: 4    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Anyone with a quarter of a brain could have figured this one out -- and why aren't the bathtub swimmers COVERING THEIR DAMNED PRECIOUS POOL to keep the water warm?? Guess the rich are sitting on what they should be using instead, as my dear mother used to say...

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» But it's not news Posted by: Bic Pentameter
» RE: But it's not news Posted by: uncertain
» RE: Your news is BS Posted by: fearn
» RE: But it's not news Posted by: photon's feather

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Yeah...sorta
Posted by: Nebris on Oct 3, 2009 1:09 AM   
Current rating: 4    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Population is still the greatest problem by far.

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» RE: Did you read the article at all? Posted by: pelican beak
» RE: Yeah...sorta Posted by: peacefullaim1

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Amen!
Posted by: Hans B on Oct 3, 2009 1:21 AM   
Current rating: 3    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Blaming population growth is blaming the poor for a problem they didn't cause - that's so obvious but it apparently still needs being said. Loudly. Thanks!

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Yacht
Posted by: kepstein7777 on Oct 3, 2009 2:42 AM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Well said, with lots of good Brit wit.

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unfortunately, rich people benefit psychologically from not thinking about consequences
Posted by: Suzon on Oct 3, 2009 3:14 AM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Most of us seek a fair amount of comfort, including feeling at ease mentally and emotionally. The rich are indulging themselves because they can. Is it time to start showing up at charity galas, Broadway opening nights, etc., with signs saying "Shame on you!"?

Excellent and useful article, George! Does anyone know of any sociological studies of the wealthy?

If you want to live in a decent world, you have to play your part.

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I've just got to say,
Posted by: linecrosser on Oct 3, 2009 3:22 AM   
Current rating: 4    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
legalizing hemp and promoting all of it's uses would help all the worlds problems.

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» RE: I've just got to say, Posted by: Caleb Darkstar

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It's Population.
Posted by: Urgelt on Oct 3, 2009 3:35 AM   
Current rating: 3    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Do rich people consume more per capita than poor people?

Sure.

But the progress of industrialization isn't just a story about the excesses of the rich. It's about the desire of *everyone* for a higher standard of living, food security, comfort, and leisure. Thus far the only way to achieve these things is through industrialization; and it's industrialization that has brought on the climate crisis.

If you took every person who is rich and forced them to personally live a modest lifestyle, it would change nothing. Nothing. We'd still demand food, still demand transportation, still demand the bounty that industrialization delivers. We could not, with our numbers, survive without it.

I don't mind talking about economic justice and wealth redistribution. Interesting topics. But to blame climate change on rich people is absurd. It's a problem all of us own.

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» Its a finite world!. Posted by: Windwhistler
» RE: It's Population. Posted by: winchelenator
» RE: It's Population. Posted by: HillbillyRob

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It's all of the above
Posted by: truthteller on Oct 3, 2009 8:43 AM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
We're just plain screwed. A World population of one to two billion people could live a modest, Eastern European, lower-middle class lifestyle in a sustainable way. But that would have to be EVERYBODY. I don't see that happening, at least not in the US, where the corporate media keeps spouting the old Horatio Alger myths of anyone can get rich by your own wits, when that is a very rare thing.

Most people would be far, FAR better off in a moderately Socialist country with health care, education, and old-age pensions paid for with a steeply progressive income tax, but you can't make them understand that. They have been so indoctrinated by the rich overlords who control information and education as to how that would be unfair stifling of free-enterprise ingenuity. Most of what these inventive people come up with is just wasteful crap that is not truly beneficial to society at large, or is harmful to the environment in the long-run.

The real answer is to take down the rich more than a peg or two, and uplift the really poor, educating them, especially the women and girls about the World's problems. This has been proven to lower birth rates more than any other program. At the same time, we need to make good sex education and reproductive services (including abortion on-demand and voluntary sterilization) universally available. We also need to tell young people, as well as their elders that you don't need to follow the traditional life-script, that it's OK, not selfish and even desirable to remain child-free.

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» RE: It's all of the above Posted by: yesman
» RE: It's all of the above Posted by: richholland

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Monbiot wrong again
Posted by: leafsong1 on Oct 3, 2009 8:54 AM   
Current rating: 3    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Does it never enter into this guy's brain that wealth can be transfered from person to person? That people in poor countries can move to rich countries? That poor countries can be developed so that their citizens consume and pollute more? That there are more problems facing the Human Race than global warming, such as food and water shortages, fishery depletion, and environmental destruction, which disproportionatly affect and are affected by poor, overpopulated areas? That the resources consumed in rich nations are ripped out of the ecosystems of poor countries by desperately poor people who sell them to survive?

True, we should not ignore overconsumption and unfair distribution, but neither should we allow them to obscure, the ancient, eternal and essential problem: too many people. There is no problem facing the Human Race which cannot be improved by reducing human population levels. There is no problem facing the human race which can be eliminated without reducing human population levels. Every article which downplays the necessity of reducing human population levels, assuming it is effective, is the moral equivalent of mass murder. Monbiot should learn what he is talking about before he writes again.

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Finally, something I can better agree with Monbiot on !
Posted by: maxpayne on Oct 3, 2009 9:00 AM   
Current rating: 3    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
I get so sick and tired of those Malthusians shilling for the rich elites by blaming population for everything. I get so sick and tired of Malthusians trying to coerce women into not producing I'd almost feel like taking a crowbar and smashing their face. People who have a problem with population numbers and want to blame them instead of the wealthy muggers should end their own lives first. The population of this planet could be one million and we would still have issues with the planet's resources being strained.

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We Could Save The World - but that's not where the Money is :.?
Posted by: stellabloo on Oct 3, 2009 9:04 AM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
It has been shown time and time again that health and education reduce population growth. Almost all women who are educated and have access to contraceptives will choose to have a small family if they have children at all. This is why population growth is actually negative in Europe, with the only real growth coming from immigration, e.g. Mohammed is now the most popular name for baby boys in London.

We have the technology and resources to end hunger and illiteracy forever but the End Poverty Now campaign stalled out due to lack of interest. We in the "civilized" world are too busy blowing each other up.

Military spending vs foreign aid – a post about priorities

“Count out 60 seconds and 3 of the world’s children will have died for lack of safe water/sanitation. Count out another 60 seconds, and within these two minutes the world will have spent $3.4 million on its military.”

"In 2004 (when the quote above was written) the world spent approximately $1100 billion on instruments of death while billions of people were already fighting for their lives against hunger, thirst and disease. Over half of this ($623 billion) was spent by the United States... That same year, ‘The Land of the Free’ spent $1 in aid for every $19 in defence."

In fact, during the uproar over the $800 billion spent to bail out the banks, another $630 billion was quietly approved by Congress to prop up the military for another YEAR.

Add to this the 100 000+ civilian deaths in Iraq since the war began and factor in the hundreds of thousands that died under economic sanctions - originally levelled because of alleged WMDs that were proven to be non-existent and then the US went ahead and invaded Iraq anyway ...

Let's not mince words. White-style capitalism is an evil, pestilent greedhead scam. The promised and much-hyped amerikan AIDS relief that was purchased at full price from Big Pharma (like, why should they cut profits to save african babies?)was given only to those countries that would accept Monsanto's GMO technology, sterile seeds that produce only with use of Monsanto fertilizers and Monsanto pesticides.

But no, it is those nasty, unwashed darkies that are the problem!

If you have any tears left to shed, recall this horrific photo that stunned the world when it first appeared: Winner of 1994 Pulitzer Prize for feature photography

How far we have come since then - NOT.

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8% of agricultural production is not for direct human consumption, it is said.
Posted by: ml-2 on Oct 3, 2009 10:08 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Is their really not enough land to feed everyone? While their may be too many people to sustain. It may not be food that is the reason.

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handmjones
Posted by: handmjones on Oct 3, 2009 10:22 AM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
As an avowed socialist I would be pleased to see a graduated income tax that would put the yacht builders out of existance, but to be fair a huge portion of the greenhouse gas emissions are from slash and burn not generally undertaken by the Park Avenue crowd. Secondly,one of the terrible effects of over-population is the crowding out of other species with huge population growth making it ever more difficult to maintain the wild spaces that were preserved for us by the likes of the Rockefellers. This has been true throughout the World and throughout time. Remember the peasants of Alaska rioting against the Parks and reserves set up as they said by the 'millionaires of New York'?

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» RE: handmjones Posted by: tony_opmoc

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Monbiot is a Left Wing UK Journalist Who Occasionally Writes Articles That Make Sense
Posted by: tony_opmoc on Oct 3, 2009 10:50 AM   
Current rating: 2    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
But The Crap he writes about 9/11, indicates he is either completely fucking stupid - or he has another agenda.

The Crap he has written here, has not clarified my opinion.

Sure he has got talent at writing crap, but to try and make out that exponential population growth is not a problem just makes him look a complete fucking idiot.

Tony

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There is lots for everyone but....
Posted by: fearn on Oct 3, 2009 12:11 PM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
A previous poster said everyone could on earth could have 20 sq ft in Texas. Not quite!!

Area of Texas 268860 sq. miles. 1 sq. mile = 27,878,400 sq ft total = 7,495,396,624,000 sq. ft divide by 7 billion people = 1071 sq. ft per person each in the state of Texas alone. Therefore a family of 5 would get over 5000 sq. ft of Texas not 100 sq. ft or 20 sq. ft each.

This is why the rich, who view 'over' population as such a big problem, are full of crap. In fact there is lots of land for everyone to live a life without starvation or poverty, HOWEVER...

There is not enough land if the rich control vast amounts of land for themselves. (Ted Turner 247,351,200 sq. ft himself) There is not enough land if the rich devote vast sums to killing each other. There is not enough if the rich ensure that a disproportionate share of the planets resources go to them and there is not enough if the rich create systems that rob the poor so that they can have too much!

Next to global heating inequality is our greatest self inflicted problem.

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Finally someone tells it like it is
Posted by: MtnWolfGrl on Oct 3, 2009 4:33 PM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Back when the population was only 6.5 billion, there was a statistic that said 1 billion people use 81% of the resources, and the other 5.5 billion people get what's left, the 19%. Since the population is increasing and the resources are decreasing, what would those statistics be now? The resources available to the largest proportion of the population have to have fallen.

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Sure Consumption is Important
Posted by: ProgressiveManiac on Oct 3, 2009 6:08 PM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Sure, consumption is an important issue, but that does not mean we can dismiss the evils of population growth.

Even if it is only the most wealthy 1% of the population of the world that is causing all of the problems to the environment, population still matters. The fact is that if the world population is 4 billion then the 1% that is doing all the harm is 40 million people. If the population of the world grows to 8 billion people then there are 80 million people doing bad stuff and so there is more bad stuff being done; in fact, precisely twice as much.

Moreover, it is overall consumption that matters, not who is doing the consumption. If we simply confiscated all money from the wealthiest 1% and distributed it to everyone else it seems quite possible that overall consumption would actually increase. It might seem more equitable, but the environment would not be helped.

Population grows exponentially; so long as it does, we have a problem. The world cannot support an unlimited number of people and as long as we try to make it do what is impossible we risk catastrophe. I mis-speak here for there is no risk when there is certainty.

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» But, ... Posted by: ProgressiveManiac

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Yeah, well, if you're reading this you're one of the rich...
Posted by: standingwave on Oct 3, 2009 10:07 PM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Lovelock is right about many things. He is right about Gaia, blessings to him for that. He is right that the climate is changing faster and faster. We all need to act upon that truth, don't we? However he is wrong about population growth being a cause of global warming, as George Monbiot points out. And I suggest he is also wrong that the outcome of global warming is a +5 deg. C world, where the biggest problem in Britian is dealing with refugees.

Life on earth has seen maybe fifty ice ages over the last five million years, at least five over the last five hundred thousand. The burden of proof is on Lovelock and this idea's supporters to show that humanity's effect on the environment is sufficient to do any more than initiate a particularly violent and unpleasant onset of an ice age. After all, ice ages are when Gaia restores life on earth; when most everything eventually thaws out after an ice age the earth is lush again for thousands and thousands of years. And eventually soils get depleted etc. and the cycle repeats itself. Now, however, humanity has the choice of gardening gaia into eden and thus avoiding the need for an ice age. Thus reversing climate change.

Remember, ice ages require more heat - not less - at least to get started. Where else is the energy going to come from, to lift all those millions and millions of cubic kilometers of ocean from sea ;-) level to the tops of continents, than from the heat of global warming?

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Well . . .
Posted by: yesman on Oct 3, 2009 10:29 PM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
"It's not sex; it's money. It's not the poor; it's the rich."

Okay. It was never about SEX. It's about REPRODUCTION--a different matter.

Nevertheless, the author is right: "It's the rich." We'd better get ready for class war--the rich already are already waging it against the rest of us, and so far our defense has been virtually nil.

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It isn't population? Yes, it is that too.
Posted by: lelectra on Oct 3, 2009 11:21 PM   
Current rating: 3    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
I know it's tempting to lay yet more blame at the feet of rich entitled folk and I am right there with you but really, to say overpopulation is not part of the problkem, a BIG part of the problem, well, you lost me with that one big fat lie and I don't even have the patience, nor the inclination to make the arguments and list the facts; but when you make such an absurd statement right off the bat you lose all credibilty. I mean, really?

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Yes, global population is still a problem
Posted by: gourdman on Oct 4, 2009 1:06 PM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
I for on am obsessed with population growth, and I'm certainly no big footprint millionaire with a yacht. The point is taken -- excess consumption is a huge problem that's scarcely being discussed. But let's not delude ourselves into believing that, should the problem of over consumption be solved, 7 billion small footprint human beings can continue to add to their numbers without consequence. The collapse will surely come on this planet with finite carrying capacity -- it will simply take a little longer. Bear mind that, prior to the fossil fuel age, global population was under 2 billion. So the obvious conclusion is that numbers over 3 billion or so are probably unsustainable without destructive practices and technology.

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Meanwhile down on the swamp
Posted by: gsmiley on Oct 4, 2009 4:02 PM   
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As one of the many poor I just want to be rich - no Wally Yacht just enough to live easy and pass something on to my kids. Unfortunately my hoped- for wealth has ALREADY been redistributed to the other poor (and rich)through taxation, accident, bad luck, greed and stupidity before I even had a chance to grasp it. So I need a job and maybe can find one if economic (read population) growth reaches 2% or better which worldwide means a doubling every forty years and I calculate a generous (1 sq. metre) standing room only on the globe in 11 doublings (440) years. Like Pogo said "We have seen the enemy and he is us!"

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Ah fresh honesty
Posted by: teel on Oct 4, 2009 4:16 PM   
Current rating: 1    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Finally someone who steps up to the plate and admits this "global warming doomsday" bullshit is all about anti-capitalism and not the end of life as we know it.

The question still remains, assuming that we're all happy to reduce our quality of life for the greater good, and it is this: How many people do we want living on earth at any one time?

You give me an answer to that, my furry little lefty friend and then we can start talking about details.

You'll notice 2 things about people who write articles like this one. The first is that they don't have an answer to my question above. Haven't even thought about it. The second thing you'll notice is that they are happy for someone else, someone better off than themselves to go ahead and reduce their quality of life.

If by moving to a 200x200 ft patch with a tent on it we could sustainably have 15 billion people on this planet, would you want to? Would you live in a tent, eat soy beans for every meal and get water rations so that another 10 billion people can fit somewhere? How far are you willing to go? 100x100 ft squares?

So tell me please, how many people should earth have on it? That's really where we need to start you see.

And if you simply can't wait to save the world from enviro-doom, then sell everything you own, move to the country in a tent and live only off of food you grow yourself.

No? I'll log off now, the stench of hypocrite is getting overwhelming.

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Class war
Posted by: websurfer on Oct 4, 2009 4:39 PM   
Current rating: 1    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
is typical of the far left for generations.

What they do not underatand is you take away the incentive of rewards for work and the chance to become rish and all you have is a society of poor.

If that the case who's going to pay the way for all those poor. The elite ruling class like Obama and Pelosi???

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» RE: Class war Posted by: clthompson
» Class war Posted by: jooljetkmae
» RE: Class war Posted by: LightningJoe

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Civilization has always been the few coercing the rest to work for them instead of themselves.
Posted by: ml-2 on Oct 5, 2009 8:51 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
For 95% of our history humanity evolved and succeeded through egalitarian cooperation for basic needs.

For 5% of our history Civilization has "succeeded" through greed, control and competition for excess.

Even in the last 5% of history many lived without civilization. Some still do.

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I will repeat my basic theory of socio-economic development...
Posted by: HalEBurton on Oct 5, 2009 9:53 AM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Eat the rich.

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Overpopulation and you....
Posted by: Elmowilcox on Oct 5, 2009 3:40 PM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Agenda 21....

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Agenda_21

Codex Alimentarius...

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Codex_Alimentarius

There is an agenda to return the planet to a sustainable environ. The only way is an agrarian society with roughly 2/3 the population we have now. Gears are turning.

Bourgeoisie or proletariat are words that don't get used very much anymore, but just because you don't classify doesn't mean that someone else isn't.

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It is overpopulation - you ignore progeny
Posted by: tedtoal on Oct 5, 2009 8:11 PM   
Current rating: 1    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
People do not factor in subsequent generations when considering impact. They think per-capita, and if a poor person has a low per-capita impact, they think that the poor have little impact regardless of their population growth rate. That isn't true. Consider a poor couple that have 6 children each generation, and they all remain poor. After 10 generations, there will be 60 million such people. Now consider a wealthy yachtman and his wife - they have two children each generation, and they all remain rich. After 10 generations, there will still be only two such people. So, say the yachtsmen are using 10,000 times as much energy and putting out 10,000 times as much pollution as the poor people. After ten generations, the poor people's progeny will be putting out 6,000 times as much pollution and using 6,000 times as much energy as the yachtsmen's progeny.

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Like Aerosmith sang about..
Posted by: aichbe on Oct 6, 2009 4:50 PM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
...EAT THE RICH! Just kidding, I'm a vegetarian...

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monibot's irrationality
Posted by: Recher on Oct 6, 2009 6:38 PM   
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monibot: what you seem to be saying is it makes no difference if there are 10....20....50....how about 100 billion people??

oh you do have a population cap for the planet?

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Lay off Lovelock in this.
Posted by: LightningJoe on Oct 6, 2009 8:17 PM   
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If only half-true were the standard of debate, you would win the argument. Lovelock, the "brilliant" (your word) environmentalist, whose views are only radical if you've already decided not to believe them, says we must deal simultaneously with population growth and with climate change, or the efforts we spend on one, circumvent the arguments for the other. You say this is an ignorant and irrational position (and after calling him brilliant, yet!).

Your immediate point on this score is to note that third-world nations are growing the fastest, and yet are producing less CO2 per capita by far -- so far. But rest assured that this will change, as the population grows further. With an expanded population, poor countries (that's WHY they are still third-world) will soon be forced to use more energy. And since they ARE poor, rest assured that they will do so as cheaply as possible. No geo-thermal, no solar or wind employed, but the most reliable, cheapest forms of energy will be used: burning wood, coal, and oil; with no CCS even contemplated. This is less than ten years out, but you still say there is no connection? China ten years ago was a land of promise but little world-climate concern. Now it is perhaps the major climate concern in the world, next to the US. In ten more years, a dozen more countries will have joined the same club. Lovelock knows this very well, and that's the essence of his warning.

The role of poor countries cannot be overestimated, and blaming someone like Lovelock for speaking the truth is anti-productive, to say the least. But you are quite right in blaming the rich and their gratifications for the overwhelming energy usage today. I've said so for years.

There's a saying (of yesterday?) that "As goes California, so goes the nation." Things have changed in CA lately, but the principle holds -- As goes the US, so goes the world, and as go the rich, so goes the US. As long as we maintain our current unfortunate focus on consumption -- as if it didn't disadvantage anyone else -- we are far from able to confront the changes we need to make. The obscenely rich are where your and my money go, through the "wonder" of capitalism. The rich ARE WHY we are having a hard time holding our own and raising our families (not mine -- I don't have one). Capitalism could be symbolized by an inverted funnel, with the wide end down on the ground gathering the minor wealth of everyone, and only a few people up at the top, enjoying the concentrated wealth pouring out, and doing their best to preserve and increase the wealth differential.

There are PLENTY of excellent reasons to advocate eating the rich, but Lovelock does not deserve your ire, and using him for a counter-example as you have is just the sort of distraction that illustrates his own point, as stated above. He's just an aging classic, doing his best for his cause with what time he has left. I think we would all be better off boosting his cause with him, while he's still with us.

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Area of Texas
Posted by: fredtowson on Oct 16, 2009 10:17 AM   
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Area of Texas 268860 sq. miles. 1 sq. mile = 27,878,400 sq ft total = 7,495,396,624,000 sq. ft divide by 7 billion people = 1071 sq. ft per person each in the state of Texas alone. Therefore a family of 5 would get over 5000 sq. ft of Texas not 100 sq. ft or 20 sq. ft each.

This is why the rich, who view 'over' population as such a big problem, are full of crap. In fact there is lots of land for everyone to live a life without starvation or poverty, HOWEVER...

There is not enough land if the rich control vast amounts of land for themselves. (Ted Turner 247,351,200 sq. ft himself) There is not enough land if the rich devote vast sums to killing each other. There is not enough if the rich ensure that a disproportionate share of the planets resources go to them and авиация самолеты true blood tv show posters true blood posters путешествия путешественникам seropol5 there is not enough if the rich create systems that rob the poor so that they can have too much!

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hey from accommodation in blackpool
Posted by: Blackpool Hotels on Oct 31, 2009 5:05 AM   
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I have just read this story and I recently stayed at a Blackpool hotel the Norbreck Castle Hotel and enjoyed my hotel stay in Blackpool. Norbreck Castle is part of Britannia Hotels which has many popular hotel accommodation such as the Britannia Hotel Manchester.

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Alternet Comments:

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Eureka! We Have A Winner!
Posted by: Lily H. on Oct 3, 2009 12:52 AM   
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Anyone with a quarter of a brain could have figured this one out -- and why aren't the bathtub swimmers COVERING THEIR DAMNED PRECIOUS POOL to keep the water warm?? Guess the rich are sitting on what they should be using instead, as my dear mother used to say...

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» But it's not news Posted by: Bic Pentameter
» RE: But it's not news Posted by: uncertain
» RE: Your news is BS Posted by: fearn
» RE: But it's not news Posted by: photon's feather

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Yeah...sorta
Posted by: Nebris on Oct 3, 2009 1:09 AM   
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Population is still the greatest problem by far.

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» RE: Did you read the article at all? Posted by: pelican beak
» RE: Yeah...sorta Posted by: peacefullaim1

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Amen!
Posted by: Hans B on Oct 3, 2009 1:21 AM   
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Blaming population growth is blaming the poor for a problem they didn't cause - that's so obvious but it apparently still needs being said. Loudly. Thanks!

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Yacht
Posted by: kepstein7777 on Oct 3, 2009 2:42 AM   
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Well said, with lots of good Brit wit.

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unfortunately, rich people benefit psychologically from not thinking about consequences
Posted by: Suzon on Oct 3, 2009 3:14 AM   
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Most of us seek a fair amount of comfort, including feeling at ease mentally and emotionally. The rich are indulging themselves because they can. Is it time to start showing up at charity galas, Broadway opening nights, etc., with signs saying "Shame on you!"?

Excellent and useful article, George! Does anyone know of any sociological studies of the wealthy?

If you want to live in a decent world, you have to play your part.

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I've just got to say,
Posted by: linecrosser on Oct 3, 2009 3:22 AM   
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legalizing hemp and promoting all of it's uses would help all the worlds problems.

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» RE: I've just got to say, Posted by: Caleb Darkstar

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It's Population.
Posted by: Urgelt on Oct 3, 2009 3:35 AM   
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Do rich people consume more per capita than poor people?

Sure.

But the progress of industrialization isn't just a story about the excesses of the rich. It's about the desire of *everyone* for a higher standard of living, food security, comfort, and leisure. Thus far the only way to achieve these things is through industrialization; and it's industrialization that has brought on the climate crisis.

If you took every person who is rich and forced them to personally live a modest lifestyle, it would change nothing. Nothing. We'd still demand food, still demand transportation, still demand the bounty that industrialization delivers. We could not, with our numbers, survive without it.

I don't mind talking about economic justice and wealth redistribution. Interesting topics. But to blame climate change on rich people is absurd. It's a problem all of us own.

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» Its a finite world!. Posted by: Windwhistler
» RE: It's Population. Posted by: winchelenator
» RE: It's Population. Posted by: HillbillyRob

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It's all of the above
Posted by: truthteller on Oct 3, 2009 8:43 AM   
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We're just plain screwed. A World population of one to two billion people could live a modest, Eastern European, lower-middle class lifestyle in a sustainable way. But that would have to be EVERYBODY. I don't see that happening, at least not in the US, where the corporate media keeps spouting the old Horatio Alger myths of anyone can get rich by your own wits, when that is a very rare thing.

Most people would be far, FAR better off in a moderately Socialist country with health care, education, and old-age pensions paid for with a steeply progressive income tax, but you can't make them understand that. They have been so indoctrinated by the rich overlords who control information and education as to how that would be unfair stifling of free-enterprise ingenuity. Most of what these inventive people come up with is just wasteful crap that is not truly beneficial to society at large, or is harmful to the environment in the long-run.

The real answer is to take down the rich more than a peg or two, and uplift the really poor, educating them, especially the women and girls about the World's problems. This has been proven to lower birth rates more than any other program. At the same time, we need to make good sex education and reproductive services (including abortion on-demand and voluntary sterilization) universally available. We also need to tell young people, as well as their elders that you don't need to follow the traditional life-script, that it's OK, not selfish and even desirable to remain child-free.

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» RE: It's all of the above Posted by: yesman
» RE: It's all of the above Posted by: richholland

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Monbiot wrong again
Posted by: leafsong1 on Oct 3, 2009 8:54 AM   
Current rating: 3    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Does it never enter into this guy's brain that wealth can be transfered from person to person? That people in poor countries can move to rich countries? That poor countries can be developed so that their citizens consume and pollute more? That there are more problems facing the Human Race than global warming, such as food and water shortages, fishery depletion, and environmental destruction, which disproportionatly affect and are affected by poor, overpopulated areas? That the resources consumed in rich nations are ripped out of the ecosystems of poor countries by desperately poor people who sell them to survive?

True, we should not ignore overconsumption and unfair distribution, but neither should we allow them to obscure, the ancient, eternal and essential problem: too many people. There is no problem facing the Human Race which cannot be improved by reducing human population levels. There is no problem facing the human race which can be eliminated without reducing human population levels. Every article which downplays the necessity of reducing human population levels, assuming it is effective, is the moral equivalent of mass murder. Monbiot should learn what he is talking about before he writes again.

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Finally, something I can better agree with Monbiot on !
Posted by: maxpayne on Oct 3, 2009 9:00 AM   
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I get so sick and tired of those Malthusians shilling for the rich elites by blaming population for everything. I get so sick and tired of Malthusians trying to coerce women into not producing I'd almost feel like taking a crowbar and smashing their face. People who have a problem with population numbers and want to blame them instead of the wealthy muggers should end their own lives first. The population of this planet could be one million and we would still have issues with the planet's resources being strained.

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We Could Save The World - but that's not where the Money is :.?
Posted by: stellabloo on Oct 3, 2009 9:04 AM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
It has been shown time and time again that health and education reduce population growth. Almost all women who are educated and have access to contraceptives will choose to have a small family if they have children at all. This is why population growth is actually negative in Europe, with the only real growth coming from immigration, e.g. Mohammed is now the most popular name for baby boys in London.

We have the technology and resources to end hunger and illiteracy forever but the End Poverty Now campaign stalled out due to lack of interest. We in the "civilized" world are too busy blowing each other up.

Military spending vs foreign aid – a post about priorities

“Count out 60 seconds and 3 of the world’s children will have died for lack of safe water/sanitation. Count out another 60 seconds, and within these two minutes the world will have spent $3.4 million on its military.”

"In 2004 (when the quote above was written) the world spent approximately $1100 billion on instruments of death while billions of people were already fighting for their lives against hunger, thirst and disease. Over half of this ($623 billion) was spent by the United States... That same year, ‘The Land of the Free’ spent $1 in aid for every $19 in defence."

In fact, during the uproar over the $800 billion spent to bail out the banks, another $630 billion was quietly approved by Congress to prop up the military for another YEAR.

Add to this the 100 000+ civilian deaths in Iraq since the war began and factor in the hundreds of thousands that died under economic sanctions - originally levelled because of alleged WMDs that were proven to be non-existent and then the US went ahead and invaded Iraq anyway ...

Let's not mince words. White-style capitalism is an evil, pestilent greedhead scam. The promised and much-hyped amerikan AIDS relief that was purchased at full price from Big Pharma (like, why should they cut profits to save african babies?)was given only to those countries that would accept Monsanto's GMO technology, sterile seeds that produce only with use of Monsanto fertilizers and Monsanto pesticides.

But no, it is those nasty, unwashed darkies that are the problem!

If you have any tears left to shed, recall this horrific photo that stunned the world when it first appeared: Winner of 1994 Pulitzer Prize for feature photography

How far we have come since then - NOT.

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8% of agricultural production is not for direct human consumption, it is said.
Posted by: ml-2 on Oct 3, 2009 10:08 AM   
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Is their really not enough land to feed everyone? While their may be too many people to sustain. It may not be food that is the reason.

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handmjones
Posted by: handmjones on Oct 3, 2009 10:22 AM   
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As an avowed socialist I would be pleased to see a graduated income tax that would put the yacht builders out of existance, but to be fair a huge portion of the greenhouse gas emissions are from slash and burn not generally undertaken by the Park Avenue crowd. Secondly,one of the terrible effects of over-population is the crowding out of other species with huge population growth making it ever more difficult to maintain the wild spaces that were preserved for us by the likes of the Rockefellers. This has been true throughout the World and throughout time. Remember the peasants of Alaska rioting against the Parks and reserves set up as they said by the 'millionaires of New York'?

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» RE: handmjones Posted by: tony_opmoc

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Monbiot is a Left Wing UK Journalist Who Occasionally Writes Articles That Make Sense
Posted by: tony_opmoc on Oct 3, 2009 10:50 AM   
Current rating: 2    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
But The Crap he writes about 9/11, indicates he is either completely fucking stupid - or he has another agenda.

The Crap he has written here, has not clarified my opinion.

Sure he has got talent at writing crap, but to try and make out that exponential population growth is not a problem just makes him look a complete fucking idiot.

Tony

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There is lots for everyone but....
Posted by: fearn on Oct 3, 2009 12:11 PM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
A previous poster said everyone could on earth could have 20 sq ft in Texas. Not quite!!

Area of Texas 268860 sq. miles. 1 sq. mile = 27,878,400 sq ft total = 7,495,396,624,000 sq. ft divide by 7 billion people = 1071 sq. ft per person each in the state of Texas alone. Therefore a family of 5 would get over 5000 sq. ft of Texas not 100 sq. ft or 20 sq. ft each.

This is why the rich, who view 'over' population as such a big problem, are full of crap. In fact there is lots of land for everyone to live a life without starvation or poverty, HOWEVER...

There is not enough land if the rich control vast amounts of land for themselves. (Ted Turner 247,351,200 sq. ft himself) There is not enough land if the rich devote vast sums to killing each other. There is not enough if the rich ensure that a disproportionate share of the planets resources go to them and there is not enough if the rich create systems that rob the poor so that they can have too much!

Next to global heating inequality is our greatest self inflicted problem.

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Finally someone tells it like it is
Posted by: MtnWolfGrl on Oct 3, 2009 4:33 PM   
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Back when the population was only 6.5 billion, there was a statistic that said 1 billion people use 81% of the resources, and the other 5.5 billion people get what's left, the 19%. Since the population is increasing and the resources are decreasing, what would those statistics be now? The resources available to the largest proportion of the population have to have fallen.

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Sure Consumption is Important
Posted by: ProgressiveManiac on Oct 3, 2009 6:08 PM   
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Sure, consumption is an important issue, but that does not mean we can dismiss the evils of population growth.

Even if it is only the most wealthy 1% of the population of the world that is causing all of the problems to the environment, population still matters. The fact is that if the world population is 4 billion then the 1% that is doing all the harm is 40 million people. If the population of the world grows to 8 billion people then there are 80 million people doing bad stuff and so there is more bad stuff being done; in fact, precisely twice as much.

Moreover, it is overall consumption that matters, not who is doing the consumption. If we simply confiscated all money from the wealthiest 1% and distributed it to everyone else it seems quite possible that overall consumption would actually increase. It might seem more equitable, but the environment would not be helped.

Population grows exponentially; so long as it does, we have a problem. The world cannot support an unlimited number of people and as long as we try to make it do what is impossible we risk catastrophe. I mis-speak here for there is no risk when there is certainty.

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» But, ... Posted by: ProgressiveManiac

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Yeah, well, if you're reading this you're one of the rich...
Posted by: standingwave on Oct 3, 2009 10:07 PM   
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Lovelock is right about many things. He is right about Gaia, blessings to him for that. He is right that the climate is changing faster and faster. We all need to act upon that truth, don't we? However he is wrong about population growth being a cause of global warming, as George Monbiot points out. And I suggest he is also wrong that the outcome of global warming is a +5 deg. C world, where the biggest problem in Britian is dealing with refugees.

Life on earth has seen maybe fifty ice ages over the last five million years, at least five over the last five hundred thousand. The burden of proof is on Lovelock and this idea's supporters to show that humanity's effect on the environment is sufficient to do any more than initiate a particularly violent and unpleasant onset of an ice age. After all, ice ages are when Gaia restores life on earth; when most everything eventually thaws out after an ice age the earth is lush again for thousands and thousands of years. And eventually soils get depleted etc. and the cycle repeats itself. Now, however, humanity has the choice of gardening gaia into eden and thus avoiding the need for an ice age. Thus reversing climate change.

Remember, ice ages require more heat - not less - at least to get started. Where else is the energy going to come from, to lift all those millions and millions of cubic kilometers of ocean from sea ;-) level to the tops of continents, than from the heat of global warming?

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Well . . .
Posted by: yesman on Oct 3, 2009 10:29 PM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
"It's not sex; it's money. It's not the poor; it's the rich."

Okay. It was never about SEX. It's about REPRODUCTION--a different matter.

Nevertheless, the author is right: "It's the rich." We'd better get ready for class war--the rich already are already waging it against the rest of us, and so far our defense has been virtually nil.

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It isn't population? Yes, it is that too.
Posted by: lelectra on Oct 3, 2009 11:21 PM   
Current rating: 3    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
I know it's tempting to lay yet more blame at the feet of rich entitled folk and I am right there with you but really, to say overpopulation is not part of the problkem, a BIG part of the problem, well, you lost me with that one big fat lie and I don't even have the patience, nor the inclination to make the arguments and list the facts; but when you make such an absurd statement right off the bat you lose all credibilty. I mean, really?

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Yes, global population is still a problem
Posted by: gourdman on Oct 4, 2009 1:06 PM   
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I for on am obsessed with population growth, and I'm certainly no big footprint millionaire with a yacht. The point is taken -- excess consumption is a huge problem that's scarcely being discussed. But let's not delude ourselves into believing that, should the problem of over consumption be solved, 7 billion small footprint human beings can continue to add to their numbers without consequence. The collapse will surely come on this planet with finite carrying capacity -- it will simply take a little longer. Bear mind that, prior to the fossil fuel age, global population was under 2 billion. So the obvious conclusion is that numbers over 3 billion or so are probably unsustainable without destructive practices and technology.

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Meanwhile down on the swamp
Posted by: gsmiley on Oct 4, 2009 4:02 PM   
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As one of the many poor I just want to be rich - no Wally Yacht just enough to live easy and pass something on to my kids. Unfortunately my hoped- for wealth has ALREADY been redistributed to the other poor (and rich)through taxation, accident, bad luck, greed and stupidity before I even had a chance to grasp it. So I need a job and maybe can find one if economic (read population) growth reaches 2% or better which worldwide means a doubling every forty years and I calculate a generous (1 sq. metre) standing room only on the globe in 11 doublings (440) years. Like Pogo said "We have seen the enemy and he is us!"

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Ah fresh honesty
Posted by: teel on Oct 4, 2009 4:16 PM   
Current rating: 1    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Finally someone who steps up to the plate and admits this "global warming doomsday" bullshit is all about anti-capitalism and not the end of life as we know it.

The question still remains, assuming that we're all happy to reduce our quality of life for the greater good, and it is this: How many people do we want living on earth at any one time?

You give me an answer to that, my furry little lefty friend and then we can start talking about details.

You'll notice 2 things about people who write articles like this one. The first is that they don't have an answer to my question above. Haven't even thought about it. The second thing you'll notice is that they are happy for someone else, someone better off than themselves to go ahead and reduce their quality of life.

If by moving to a 200x200 ft patch with a tent on it we could sustainably have 15 billion people on this planet, would you want to? Would you live in a tent, eat soy beans for every meal and get water rations so that another 10 billion people can fit somewhere? How far are you willing to go? 100x100 ft squares?

So tell me please, how many people should earth have on it? That's really where we need to start you see.

And if you simply can't wait to save the world from enviro-doom, then sell everything you own, move to the country in a tent and live only off of food you grow yourself.

No? I'll log off now, the stench of hypocrite is getting overwhelming.

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Class war
Posted by: websurfer on Oct 4, 2009 4:39 PM   
Current rating: 1    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
is typical of the far left for generations.

What they do not underatand is you take away the incentive of rewards for work and the chance to become rish and all you have is a society of poor.

If that the case who's going to pay the way for all those poor. The elite ruling class like Obama and Pelosi???

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» RE: Class war Posted by: clthompson
» Class war Posted by: jooljetkmae
» RE: Class war Posted by: LightningJoe

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Civilization has always been the few coercing the rest to work for them instead of themselves.
Posted by: ml-2 on Oct 5, 2009 8:51 AM   
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For 95% of our history humanity evolved and succeeded through egalitarian cooperation for basic needs.

For 5% of our history Civilization has "succeeded" through greed, control and competition for excess.

Even in the last 5% of history many lived without civilization. Some still do.

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I will repeat my basic theory of socio-economic development...
Posted by: HalEBurton on Oct 5, 2009 9:53 AM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Eat the rich.

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Overpopulation and you....
Posted by: Elmowilcox on Oct 5, 2009 3:40 PM   
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Agenda 21....

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Agenda_21

Codex Alimentarius...

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Codex_Alimentarius

There is an agenda to return the planet to a sustainable environ. The only way is an agrarian society with roughly 2/3 the population we have now. Gears are turning.

Bourgeoisie or proletariat are words that don't get used very much anymore, but just because you don't classify doesn't mean that someone else isn't.

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It is overpopulation - you ignore progeny
Posted by: tedtoal on Oct 5, 2009 8:11 PM   
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People do not factor in subsequent generations when considering impact. They think per-capita, and if a poor person has a low per-capita impact, they think that the poor have little impact regardless of their population growth rate. That isn't true. Consider a poor couple that have 6 children each generation, and they all remain poor. After 10 generations, there will be 60 million such people. Now consider a wealthy yachtman and his wife - they have two children each generation, and they all remain rich. After 10 generations, there will still be only two such people. So, say the yachtsmen are using 10,000 times as much energy and putting out 10,000 times as much pollution as the poor people. After ten generations, the poor people's progeny will be putting out 6,000 times as much pollution and using 6,000 times as much energy as the yachtsmen's progeny.

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Like Aerosmith sang about..
Posted by: aichbe on Oct 6, 2009 4:50 PM   
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...EAT THE RICH! Just kidding, I'm a vegetarian...

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monibot's irrationality
Posted by: Recher on Oct 6, 2009 6:38 PM   
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monibot: what you seem to be saying is it makes no difference if there are 10....20....50....how about 100 billion people??

oh you do have a population cap for the planet?

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Lay off Lovelock in this.
Posted by: LightningJoe on Oct 6, 2009 8:17 PM   
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If only half-true were the standard of debate, you would win the argument. Lovelock, the "brilliant" (your word) environmentalist, whose views are only radical if you've already decided not to believe them, says we must deal simultaneously with population growth and with climate change, or the efforts we spend on one, circumvent the arguments for the other. You say this is an ignorant and irrational position (and after calling him brilliant, yet!).

Your immediate point on this score is to note that third-world nations are growing the fastest, and yet are producing less CO2 per capita by far -- so far. But rest assured that this will change, as the population grows further. With an expanded population, poor countries (that's WHY they are still third-world) will soon be forced to use more energy. And since they ARE poor, rest assured that they will do so as cheaply as possible. No geo-thermal, no solar or wind employed, but the most reliable, cheapest forms of energy will be used: burning wood, coal, and oil; with no CCS even contemplated. This is less than ten years out, but you still say there is no connection? China ten years ago was a land of promise but little world-climate concern. Now it is perhaps the major climate concern in the world, next to the US. In ten more years, a dozen more countries will have joined the same club. Lovelock knows this very well, and that's the essence of his warning.

The role of poor countries cannot be overestimated, and blaming someone like Lovelock for speaking the truth is anti-productive, to say the least. But you are quite right in blaming the rich and their gratifications for the overwhelming energy usage today. I've said so for years.

There's a saying (of yesterday?) that "As goes California, so goes the nation." Things have changed in CA lately, but the principle holds -- As goes the US, so goes the world, and as go the rich, so goes the US. As long as we maintain our current unfortunate focus on consumption -- as if it didn't disadvantage anyone else -- we are far from able to confront the changes we need to make. The obscenely rich are where your and my money go, through the "wonder" of capitalism. The rich ARE WHY we are having a hard time holding our own and raising our families (not mine -- I don't have one). Capitalism could be symbolized by an inverted funnel, with the wide end down on the ground gathering the minor wealth of everyone, and only a few people up at the top, enjoying the concentrated wealth pouring out, and doing their best to preserve and increase the wealth differential.

There are PLENTY of excellent reasons to advocate eating the rich, but Lovelock does not deserve your ire, and using him for a counter-example as you have is just the sort of distraction that illustrates his own point, as stated above. He's just an aging classic, doing his best for his cause with what time he has left. I think we would all be better off boosting his cause with him, while he's still with us.

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Area of Texas
Posted by: fredtowson on Oct 16, 2009 10:17 AM   
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Area of Texas 268860 sq. miles. 1 sq. mile = 27,878,400 sq ft total = 7,495,396,624,000 sq. ft divide by 7 billion people = 1071 sq. ft per person each in the state of Texas alone. Therefore a family of 5 would get over 5000 sq. ft of Texas not 100 sq. ft or 20 sq. ft each.

This is why the rich, who view 'over' population as such a big problem, are full of crap. In fact there is lots of land for everyone to live a life without starvation or poverty, HOWEVER...

There is not enough land if the rich control vast amounts of land for themselves. (Ted Turner 247,351,200 sq. ft himself) There is not enough land if the rich devote vast sums to killing each other. There is not enough if the rich ensure that a disproportionate share of the planets resources go to them and авиация самолеты true blood tv show posters true blood posters путешествия путешественникам seropol5 there is not enough if the rich create systems that rob the poor so that they can have too much!

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hey from accommodation in blackpool
Posted by: Blackpool Hotels on Oct 31, 2009 5:05 AM   
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I have just read this story and I recently stayed at a Blackpool hotel the Norbreck Castle Hotel and enjoyed my hotel stay in Blackpool. Norbreck Castle is part of Britannia Hotels which has many popular hotel accommodation such as the Britannia Hotel Manchester.

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