COMMENTS: 101
Would You Know How to Survive After the Oil Crash?
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This is groundbreaking coming from the U.S. government, although don't expect President Barack Obama to mention peak oil in any upcoming speeches.
Determining the peak is not so cut and dried, McKibben points out. In addition, tiny market changes, like a period of economic decline where less oil is consumed can mask depleting supplies. But for those who are convinced of the data, they aren't waiting around for the federal government to jump into crisis mode.
What Will a Post-Peak-Oil World Look Like?
It's an intellectual exercise to even imagine what our lives would look like if oil was no longer cheap and plentiful. Sure, there will always be some in the ground, but when it becomes too expensive to get it out, there will be big changes afoot.
We depend on oil to get us to the store and to get our food and goods there as well. It's a huge component of the industrial agriculture model that feeds most of our country. And petroleum is in just about everything we buy -- from bubble gum to tires to eyeglasses.
And when you consider how oil powers our economy, things look bleak.
"The global-energy equation is changing rapidly, and with it is likely to come great power competition, economic peril, rising starvation, growing unrest, environmental disaster and shrinking energy supplies, no matter what steps are taken," Klare wrote.
Peak-oil prophet James Howard Kunstler, who has written extensively on the subject, echoes his sentiments. In his book The Long Emergency, he cautions: "What is generally not comprehended about this predicament is that the developed world will begin to suffer long before the oil and gas actually run out. The American way of life -- which is now virtually synonymous with suburbia -- can run only on reliable supplies of dependably cheap oil and gas."
And it gets worse in his eyes. "Oil led the human race to a threshold of nearly godlike power to transform the world. It was right there in the ground, easy to get. We used it as if there was no tomorrow. Now there may not be one."
Life After the Peak
But Angelantoni doesn't quite see it that way. There will be life after cheap oil, at least for many of us, but it will be vastly different from what most Americans are accustomed to.
We may crash and burn, or we can aim for something Angelantoni calls "creative descent." This involves teaching people about the coming crisis, retraining them in skills that will be useful and helping communities to be more localized.
"The first thing, really is to figure out where you want to live," said Angelantoni. Some areas, like the Southwest, may prove to be fairly unlivable as climate change kicks in as well. And disaster-prone areas, like geological-fault-riddled California may be dicey, he says.
But it's not all bad.
"There will be a lot of opportunity to start new businesses," he said. "We have to localize."
The relocalization movement has been around for decades but has gotten a second wind as the stumbling economy and mounting environmental pressures have shocked many into action. The basic premise is for communities to become more self-sufficient, and hence more resilient. This often means more local-food networks, more local energy and water systems and robust community businesses.
This idea has recently spun into transition towns, which has spread around the U.S. and in 14 countries. They provide a structure for communities to relocalize. Towns form working groups on issues like energy, food, transportation and local economics.
"It's not a political movement, it doesn't have a political bias," said Transition US Executive Director Carolyn Stayton. "Different types of people can be interested in it -- it is an us, not a them, it is about how we all can together create a future that works for us."
Each town has its own priorities and issues it is working on. For instance, in Santa Cruz, Calif., they are holding a reskilling expo where people can learn about composting, beekeeping, water catchment and nonviolent communication, in addition to workshops about peak oil and local economics.
Folks in Berea, Ky., just held a 100-mile potluck to help promote local food and farmers and to grow community awareness about their transition initiatives.
It's easy, she says, to become paralyzed by fear -- global warming, economic turmoil and the loss of cheap energy can be a lot to take in. Transition towns examine those issues, but then "imagines what can be on the other side," Stayton said.
"What would our future look like? People imagine it looking like a healthy, wholesome place where people don't have to commute, where neighbors know each other, where business is local and vibrant and people have skills that they are sharing. The vision becomes so enticing that the problems shrink in their power, and people get propelled to create a future that solves the problems."
For Angelantoni, this kind of community resilience is the opposite of many survivalists, who head to the hills to see if they can live independently. His version of surviving a post-peak-oil world is dependent on communities coming together and adapting to new ways of supporting each other -- leaving their big cars and their big houses and their many toys behind.
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Posted by: mmckinl on Sep 17, 2009 1:14 AM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
The biggest mistake is confusing technology with energy ... Technology makes finding oil easier and more efficient but it does not create more oil and in the medium and long term that technology enables us to extract more oil faster creating an even sharper downside after the peak ...
Every week announcements of huge new oil discoveries hit the news but the fact is we are using oil at a rate 4 times faster than we are finding it and that oil is deeper, farther from markets and in general not the light sweet crude that contains the most energy for the least refinement... Oil depletion is higher than was imagined just a few years back, some of that technology at work draining oil faster than before.
The world economy is based on cheap oil and the end of cheap oil will put an end to globalization for two reasons ... the price of oil in transportation and farming and the price of oil to consumers.
People everywhere will spend increasing amounts of their checks for food and necessities while the economy shrinks leaving even more people out of work creating a downward spiral from which there is no escape.
I suggest you visit the sites Tara wrote about ... For more info
Peak Oil Primer
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» RE: A Very Good Article by Tara Lohan ...
Posted by: HeroesAll
» RE: The mantra should be to "Get Off Oil" not just foreign
Posted by: Changling
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Posted by: grindermonkey on Sep 17, 2009 2:54 AM
Current rating: 1 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
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» GuitarBill rules
Posted by: CZMD
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Posted by: FAITHCARR on Sep 17, 2009 4:27 AM
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As for the other neighbors. The short answer is "yes".
Just call me a Liberal with a Shotgun.
F.
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Posted by: ShrubtheWarcriminal on Sep 23, 2009 11:29 PM
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» RE: Are you willing to kill your neighbor? Answer...yes, especially....
Posted by: mtnprivy
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Posted by: hmaud on Sep 17, 2009 4:20 AM
Current rating: 4 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
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» RE: People Survived
Posted by: ProgressiveManiac
» RE: Pre-oil world
Posted by: djnoll
» RE: Pre-oil world
Posted by: Fat Man at the Buffet Line
» RE: Pre-oil world
Posted by: djnoll
» RE: Pre-oil world and modern landlord-tenant dysfunction
Posted by: DaBear
» RE: Pre-oil world and modern landlord-tenant dysfunction
Posted by: Fat Man at the Buffet Line
» RE: Pre-oil world
Posted by: staicnoise
» RE: Pre-oil world
Posted by: Orange
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Posted by: Wayne Etheridge on Sep 17, 2009 4:27 AM
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Posted by: redbridge on Sep 17, 2009 5:12 AM
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We're animals and therefore 'high graders' of the easiest resources - lowest hanging fruit. Weakest prey.
Very interesting material on Chris Mortenson's 'Crash Course' - available free online.
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Posted by: CRaPWHiSPeReR on Sep 17, 2009 5:36 AM
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Posted by: wbblack on Sep 17, 2009 5:42 AM
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Gone Local
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Posted by: Walks-in-Storms on Sep 17, 2009 5:44 AM
Current rating: 3 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
If you're strong, it isn't so bad - you adapt (I ate a lot of snakes, for instance). If you're the typical "American," though, you die.
I hope you can take consolation from the fact that you did it to yourselves
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» You sir, should write an autobiography...
Posted by: zigy
» RE: You sir, should write an autobiography...
Posted by: DaBear
» RE: You sir, should write an autobiography...
Posted by: madregal
» RE: You sir, should write an autobiography...
Posted by: Walks-in-Storms
» RE: You sir, should write an autobiography...
Posted by: Walks-in-Storms
» RE: You sir, should write an autobiography...
Posted by: Walks-in-Storms
» RE: You sir, should write an autobiography...
Posted by: Walks-in-Storms
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Posted by: Proteus OH on Sep 17, 2009 6:27 AM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Even if a critical mass of people suddenly woke up, realized that the end of oi is upon us, and decided to quit their current jobs, move out of the cities, and form sustainable towns and villages again, it simply wouldn't be possible. Big agri-business owns most of the rural lands that were once owned by the family farms that once sustained those tiny farm villages of the nineteenth century.
There's no getting off the ride now--not fast enough to prevent utter economic and social collapse. Only 3% of Americans actually work on farms at this point in our history; most people don't even know how to grow food in hobby gardens, much less work large fields with plow horses. Most people don't know how to hunt or fish and we've poisoned the water and paved over the habitats of what used to be called game back in the days when people routinely supplemented their diets with hunted animals. A soft landing is simply not possible.
Wish it were. i really would rather not have to kill my neighbors before they kill me.
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» vanishing skills--farmers will be the new high tech people!
Posted by: zooeyhall
» RE: vanishing skills--farmers will be the new high tech people!
Posted by: djnoll
» RE: vanishing skills--farmers will be the new high tech people!
Posted by: Walks-in-Storms
» RE: vanishing skills--farmers will be the new high tech people!
Posted by: Walks-in-Storms
» How to process a chicken--how many Americans could actually DO this?
Posted by: zooeyhall
» RE: How to process a chicken-- comment
Posted by: riondluz
» RE: Frank
Posted by: Birdland
» RE: Frank
Posted by: DaBear
» RE: Frank
Posted by: Walks-in-Storms
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Posted by: JenniferBedingfield on Sep 17, 2009 6:59 AM
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Posted by: peppylapew on Sep 17, 2009 7:23 AM
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About 150 years ago, the world faced an environmental crisis of epic proportion created by the twin pollutants of horse shit and coal ash. Along came oil and those problems went away.
Now, a new source of horse shit has suddenly appeared: again we face the threat of being buried alive.
Even ignoring the discoveries of huge new oil fields announced during the past few weeks, there's no fundamental reason to fear declining oil production. Because we waste so much of it now, we have a false concept of how much oil we really need to sustain our economy.
Halving automobile fuel use by reducing the weight of our cars (easily done) would give the world decades to adjust to declining production. Implementing a commuter-car rail system (a nascent technology known as PRT) would decimate fuel consumption. ... For that matter, the US Air Force accounts for fully half of the federal government's total oil consumption: slashing USAF operations would save a lot of petroleum and a lot of innocent lives.
If, indeed, oil is running out, "market forces," which is to say expensive fuel, will accomplish what legislators cannot, except through force and deception: People will queue up for lightweight, fuel-efficient vehicles --- as indeed they did last year.
But the planet is NOT in danger of running out of crude. Please read and consider the implications of Thomas Gold's book "Deep Hot Biosphere." Link to Amazon page.
The oil companies want us to believe that petroleum comes from a dwindling source (dinosaur fat, etc) because scarcity justifies high prices. But, Gold argues, oil migrates to the surface after being produced deep inside the Earth's crust from a superabundance of hydrocarbon precursors. This explains evidence that oil fields are slowly self-replenishing. Yes, we have plucked the low-hanging fruit; we are finding new ways to shake the tree, however.
Self-flagellation will not solve the "energy problem." Yes, crude oil is toxic and its combustion must be phased out. But let's not permit the revenue needs of greedy corporations and spendthrift governments to stampede us into stupid, unnecessary, economically self-destructive policies.
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» The idyllic 19th century--horseshit everywhere
Posted by: frantic1971
» RE: The idyllic 19th century--horseshit everywhere
Posted by: Birdland
» RE: Horseshit...
Posted by: oregoncharles
» RE: Horseshit...pick it up an use it on soils naturally
Posted by: Changling
» RE: Well, we survived Peak Horse Manure ...
Posted by: newawakening
» RE: Well, we survived Peak Horse Manure ...
Posted by: staicnoise
» RE: Well, we survived Peak Horse Manure ...
Posted by: Walks-in-Storms
» RE: Well, we survived Peak Horse Manure ...
Posted by: acjitsu
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Posted by: troubleinmind254 on Sep 17, 2009 8:11 AM
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You can't get people to mobilize to insure everybody in this country get there teeth cleaned and blood pressure checked, yet alone plan for a world without gas stations.
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Posted by: kellysgarden on Sep 17, 2009 8:27 AM
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If the Neo-cons have their way, our future will be the masses dying-off, or becoming serfs and slaves, while the few elites retain control of the oil.
The main question then becomes: Will we overthrow the Cheneys in our governments, or will we become subservient to them?
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» RE: Even without Peak Oil we still need to stop GHG's now
Posted by: Changling
» RE: read between the lines
Posted by: gimmie shelter
» RE: read between the lines
Posted by: newawakening
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Posted by: caple66wood on Sep 17, 2009 8:45 AM
Current rating: 1 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Peak Oil is coming. It may already be here. It's a real problem. It is not the end of industrial civilization. It most particularly does not mean that that we will, as Kuntsler has specifically predicted, go back to horses.
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» on being a "doomer"
Posted by: inverse_agonist
» RE: on being a "doomer"
Posted by: caple66wood
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Posted by: QQOblivion on Sep 17, 2009 9:20 AM
Current rating: 4 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Then when you die, those few that are left can use your body for fertilizer.
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» RE: La La Land
Posted by: caple66wood
» RE: La La Land... and class denialists
Posted by: DaBear
» RE: La La Land... and class denialists
Posted by: caple66wood
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Posted by: Cap'n Solar on Sep 17, 2009 9:51 AM
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Posted by: zigy on Sep 17, 2009 10:22 AM
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» RE: Click on it to see, google Mitraya
Posted by: Changling
» Thanks for the explanation.
Posted by: zigy
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Posted by: Changling on Sep 17, 2009 10:53 AM
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I believe that the cabal i.e. Dominionists have planned this time we are in and at stage #3 they will come out in the open and offer a helping hand(claw) giving us the choice between their version of theocratic-corporate military order, or the chaos and violence of the disrupted country with a full on economic crash.
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» RE: www.cluborlov.com gives you the whys we could sink
Posted by: zigy
» Who Are The Dominionists?
Posted by: Animal
» Thanks for the...
Posted by: zigy
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Posted by: outragedtoo on Sep 17, 2009 11:05 AM
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But more seriously, we must try to keep as much land as possible in private individual hands — not corporate, agribusiness or government hands. Anyone lucky enough to own a decent piece of land is under tremendous pressure from all sides. Housing developers are less of a threat nowadays than water or beverage companies or other agribusiness sorts. Or municipalities want you to turn it into a land trust, which can also remove that land from private ownership and small-scale agriculture production.
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Posted by: maxsmart on Sep 17, 2009 11:08 AM
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Posted by: vertical on Sep 17, 2009 11:16 AM
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» RE: Nazis
Posted by: newawakening
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Posted by: Spiritgirl on Sep 17, 2009 11:43 AM
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Posted by: DaBear on Sep 17, 2009 12:48 PM
Current rating: 4 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
If you own a house... and then nothing else is mentioned. So, only the middlings who haven't been kicked out in foreclosure get to be part of the survivability.
Here's how we at the bottom see things going:
• The owning class will be scared shitless the more things grind down. How do they react now when they're scared? Send poor people to war, relocate them by force, anything to "stabilize" "the element"... meaning us at the bottom. Two of the housekeepers down the street told me at yesterday's morning coffee on "my" lawn (I just rent it from an owning-class lady) that they were told by their "employers" that they were to work without pay "for now". They were told, "Things are tough right now, but you'll keep working for us, right? It'll be like job security for you." Um, yeah and it's called slavery, classholes. We're pretty confident it'll make a HUGE comeback once the owning class gets spooked enough.
• There'll be ecological migrancy and forced relocations (of you know who: poor people). The camps exist, Ahnold's people let it slip to the LA Times and Sacto Bee that they have plans for this during extreme water crises they're anticipating. Think Katrina on crack.
• If you rent, forget staying put. Landlords will evict people first thing. You won't be allowed to stay. Period. Get a backpack and learn how to pack and use it. Prepare to lose all the rest of your material possessions. You'll be forced to abandon them.
• You won't be making your own candles or growing your own food, but you may be doing so for the owning-class, most likely for no pay... "it'll be like job security." (The housekeeper ladies thought those notions were hilarious: "How're you gonna do that stuff when you're in a camp or walking a road north?"
• Expect "security" a.k.a. "police supervision" at the behest of the owning-class and community "business leaders." They want us under control, ready to be moved out of their way.
Coffee with the housecleaning crew tomorrow. We'll come up with some more for ya.
Bottom Line: If you own, if you're upper middling and above, you'll survive & still be around using the happy-happy skills the article's subjects advocate.
The rest of us down below... think feudal, medieval, think slavery. That's where we're headed.
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» RE: Once again only the Owning-class or upper middlings need apply
Posted by: Animal
» Dabear, you've been drinking the alex jones cool-aid again...
Posted by: zigy
» RE: Once again only the Owning-class or upper middlings need apply
Posted by: richholland
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Posted by: MotherLodeBeth on Sep 17, 2009 1:19 PM
Current rating: 4 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Love riding a bike as do most people around my area do, since its cheaper than driving the car we have. In fact our car was paid for when we bought it in '03 (Toyota Matrix) and it now has 23k miles on it. That's how careful we are in using it. We don't own a lot of stuff, but what we have we need. Like the pressure canner, food dehydrator, clothesline, pickling crock, garden tools, sewing machine etc.
As yes we do know how to make shoes, and many other things. Heck we even make our own burial boxes for friends and family and do home burials.
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» can i come visit you?
Posted by: veggiegrrrl
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Posted by: maxpayne on Sep 17, 2009 6:52 PM
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http://www.livescience.com
/environment/090406-pf-algae-fuel.html
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» RE: You can't spoil the Merchants of Death's fun Max
Posted by: marid
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Posted by: Reeko on Sep 17, 2009 10:51 PM
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Posted by: dianabol on Sep 18, 2009 12:19 AM
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we may even see the water car introduced officially this will have massive benefits but certainly not may that favor government taxing,
the best thing over all is for the first time in over a century there will be no more war over the battle of oil supremacy,
as my title says you cant fight over batteries can you? or will they find a way to go to war over water cars lol,
i hope we run out of oil this afternoon, we will see a major consiracy in terms of what technology the us government is holding from us in order to maintain the oil industry as a whole.
regards dale.
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Posted by: clresu on Sep 18, 2009 8:57 AM
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» RE: the worrisome thing
Posted by: richholland
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Posted by: Dickinseattl on Sep 18, 2009 3:59 PM
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Posted by: bart on Sep 20, 2009 12:48 AM
Current rating: 1 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Universally, through mass indocrination, the same lies have been told to everyone. Then,as was done in this forum, everyone tries to compete with each other by straightening out the inconsistencies in the weaving of the big lie that is always unravelling everywhere on the edges. Wannabees always act as apologists and train to shore up the coherence of fascist ideologies. Universities grant advanced degrees in this kind of lieing. Yes, an enormous change is coming for commoners, but the rich will have the latest technologies. If you go to India, you will see that half the people live like bugs and half the people are rich and educated. There are so many popular ideas that are ideological wet blankets preventing socialist inquiry from going forward. Peak oil is a small one. The elites are telling you that your cleverness is irrelevant. And everyone deliberates and experiences enmasse the Hamlet complex. Every aspect of U.S. life is controlled by the 5%ers. Every aspect. The Bilderbergers know it was a mistake to educate/indocrinate everyone with modern ideas. When the few generations of peasants who were educated do die off, the idea that a peasant can be educated can be erased. The elites increase oppression of women, insure the radical tramatic upbringings of lovelessness, and fundamentalism will flourish as well as plenty of the childhood brutality will be restaged as endless willing soldiers. If the oil industry was a public utility, the peak oil hoax hustle talk would disappear. Vast disgusting opulence is the lot of life for the oil oligarchy. Remember: the major source of CO2 in the world is the U.S. military's invasion machinery. Anyway, always plant a big organic garden and get yourself and your family away from the concentration camp cities. Integrate your mind with your hand and learn to act on intention.
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» RE: Peak Oil
Posted by: richholland
» RE: Peak Oil
Posted by: sclamont
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Posted by: Orange on Sep 20, 2009 6:53 PM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
To insist that the world's oil supply will not also be used up is flat-out stupid.
There is no such thing as an infinite natural resource. Anything that we use profligately will become exhausted. It's amazing how some people can go into denial and insist that "It can't happen here", especially when it already has.
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» RE: Peak Buffalo, Peak Salmon...
Posted by: axisofoil
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Posted by: Romantic Violence on Sep 23, 2009 12:09 PM
Current rating: 1 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
FTW
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Posted by: axisofoil on Sep 23, 2009 12:12 PM
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Posted by: Bearzerker on Sep 23, 2009 1:47 PM
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I thought i should post a link to a counter story on this very subject...
like Murphy...
I'm a budding optimist which makes me question things like peak oil & global warming...
is it really happening?...
I dont believe everything I see and hear anymore... should you?
enquiring minds haveta know!
I want a new and improved fairness doctrine!
and some muscle in Fairness and Accuracy in Reporting!
government & corporate propaganda comes in many forms,
[thanx to k-street] they are the same now.
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» RE: Lawrence Solomon: Endless oil... thank god for the internet and counter arguments
Posted by: Romantic Violence
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Posted by: ShrubtheWarcriminal on Sep 23, 2009 11:49 PM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
To do other wise may have dire consequences. To do so will at least save you money.
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Posted by: FreeAmerica on Sep 24, 2009 8:32 AM
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The only reason that we would be anywhere remotely close to peak oil is because every time someone finds a couple of trillion barrels of oil, the democrats immediately name it a wildlife refuge. Think ANWAR and the rest of Alaska, Bakken Formation, Bering Straits, 95% of US coastlines, Rocky Mountains, Great Lakes, Appalachia, and the Gulf of Mexico for a start.
In the event that we actually used some of the more easily extracted oil up, I will point out that we haven't even explored most of the oceans, 2/3 of the earth's surface. Likewise, directional and deep water drilling have brought huge new resources into reach.
Beyond the in the ground crude, as several mentioned above, the Fischer–Tropsch Synthesis process used by the Germans does actually work. In addition to the four of five generations that coal could provide energy for in that process, people are also using derivatives of that process to synth oil from algae, compost, and other sources. If it has hydrogen and carbon, it can be made into oil. That includes every living thing.
A guy down in Georgia is using bacteria from cow stomachs to make methane from biomass, which he captures and renders into any form of hydrocarbon desired.
If none of that works, we have many generations of natural gas, again, mostly locked up by mindless enviro corporations. That can again be refined into most hydrocarbon based products as well as being burned for heat, light, power, and transportation. For most of those, it is actually better than crude oil.
As far as oil being abiotic, some is, some isn't. You can tell by the chemical markers. In the case of Alaska's north slope, it is the remnants of an ancient sub tropical forest (So much for the AGW and polar bear fantasies).
The no-energy whack off fantasy that you pursue should be more pursued along the lines of an EM pulse (EMP attack) from one of your comrades in South Korea, Pakistan, or Iran.
That would wipe out all things electric and electronic, and in an instant plunge us back into the 1800s. THAT fits the disaster scene that you are writing about. It would kill off tens of millions of people, plunge our society into primal chaos within a month, and keep it there for years. Unlike peak oil, it would come in one day.
The energy spent on peak oil would be much better spent on other problems, challenges, and efficiencies to make our resources last longer.
Could we run out of oil? Sure. If we actually use the generations of oil up before finding cleaner energy sources 100 or 200 years from now, it is our own stupidity.
More likely we will be looking back in two decades and laughing at our lack of prior evolution, much as we would laugh at mimeograph machines, the Edsel, the Pacer, and other 4-12MPG cars, PCBs and asbestos in everything, and paper records rendered to microfiche. All of those were current technology in my lifetime, and I am only 60% of the way to my life expectancy.
Really seriously Tara, you have a strong resource here, and a lot of socially conscious people willing to help. Use that capitol for real problems.
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Posted by: dianabol on Sep 29, 2009 9:45 PM
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for those who dont know about the hydro powered vehicle and the definite possibility of retro fitting existing motor vehicles,
you need only look on youtube abd type in water car,
so the conspiracy is the fact that the worlds governments will not allow such competition to the oil industry and in terms of battery powered vehicles the plan is to sell and tax battery recharges, as in pay to fill and pay tax, this water car technology is like cars on buy steroids there is just no comparison!!!!
when will the people rise up against this what i think is the worlds biggest ever conspiracy,
and blatant conspiracy at that,
iv lost all faith in democratic governments.
regards dale
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Posted by: Blackpool Hotels on Oct 11, 2009 1:27 PM
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britannia hotel
hotels in blackpool
Britannia Hotels
norbreck castle hotel
britannia hotels
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Posted by: mmckinl on Sep 17, 2009 1:14 AM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
The biggest mistake is confusing technology with energy ... Technology makes finding oil easier and more efficient but it does not create more oil and in the medium and long term that technology enables us to extract more oil faster creating an even sharper downside after the peak ...
Every week announcements of huge new oil discoveries hit the news but the fact is we are using oil at a rate 4 times faster than we are finding it and that oil is deeper, farther from markets and in general not the light sweet crude that contains the most energy for the least refinement... Oil depletion is higher than was imagined just a few years back, some of that technology at work draining oil faster than before.
The world economy is based on cheap oil and the end of cheap oil will put an end to globalization for two reasons ... the price of oil in transportation and farming and the price of oil to consumers.
People everywhere will spend increasing amounts of their checks for food and necessities while the economy shrinks leaving even more people out of work creating a downward spiral from which there is no escape.
I suggest you visit the sites Tara wrote about ... For more info
Peak Oil Primer
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» RE: A Very Good Article by Tara Lohan ...
Posted by: HeroesAll
» RE: The mantra should be to "Get Off Oil" not just foreign
Posted by: Changling
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Posted by: grindermonkey on Sep 17, 2009 2:54 AM
Current rating: 1 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
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» GuitarBill rules
Posted by: CZMD
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Posted by: FAITHCARR on Sep 17, 2009 4:27 AM
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As for the other neighbors. The short answer is "yes".
Just call me a Liberal with a Shotgun.
F.
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Posted by: ShrubtheWarcriminal on Sep 23, 2009 11:29 PM
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» RE: Are you willing to kill your neighbor? Answer...yes, especially....
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Posted by: hmaud on Sep 17, 2009 4:20 AM
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» RE: People Survived
Posted by: ProgressiveManiac
» RE: Pre-oil world
Posted by: djnoll
» RE: Pre-oil world
Posted by: Fat Man at the Buffet Line
» RE: Pre-oil world
Posted by: djnoll
» RE: Pre-oil world and modern landlord-tenant dysfunction
Posted by: DaBear
» RE: Pre-oil world and modern landlord-tenant dysfunction
Posted by: Fat Man at the Buffet Line
» RE: Pre-oil world
Posted by: staicnoise
» RE: Pre-oil world
Posted by: Orange
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Posted by: Wayne Etheridge on Sep 17, 2009 4:27 AM
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Posted by: redbridge on Sep 17, 2009 5:12 AM
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We're animals and therefore 'high graders' of the easiest resources - lowest hanging fruit. Weakest prey.
Very interesting material on Chris Mortenson's 'Crash Course' - available free online.
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Posted by: CRaPWHiSPeReR on Sep 17, 2009 5:36 AM
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Posted by: wbblack on Sep 17, 2009 5:42 AM
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Gone Local
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Posted by: Walks-in-Storms on Sep 17, 2009 5:44 AM
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If you're strong, it isn't so bad - you adapt (I ate a lot of snakes, for instance). If you're the typical "American," though, you die.
I hope you can take consolation from the fact that you did it to yourselves
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» You sir, should write an autobiography...
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» RE: You sir, should write an autobiography...
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» RE: You sir, should write an autobiography...
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» RE: You sir, should write an autobiography...
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» RE: You sir, should write an autobiography...
Posted by: Walks-in-Storms
» RE: You sir, should write an autobiography...
Posted by: Walks-in-Storms
» RE: You sir, should write an autobiography...
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Posted by: Proteus OH on Sep 17, 2009 6:27 AM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Even if a critical mass of people suddenly woke up, realized that the end of oi is upon us, and decided to quit their current jobs, move out of the cities, and form sustainable towns and villages again, it simply wouldn't be possible. Big agri-business owns most of the rural lands that were once owned by the family farms that once sustained those tiny farm villages of the nineteenth century.
There's no getting off the ride now--not fast enough to prevent utter economic and social collapse. Only 3% of Americans actually work on farms at this point in our history; most people don't even know how to grow food in hobby gardens, much less work large fields with plow horses. Most people don't know how to hunt or fish and we've poisoned the water and paved over the habitats of what used to be called game back in the days when people routinely supplemented their diets with hunted animals. A soft landing is simply not possible.
Wish it were. i really would rather not have to kill my neighbors before they kill me.
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» vanishing skills--farmers will be the new high tech people!
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» RE: vanishing skills--farmers will be the new high tech people!
Posted by: djnoll
» RE: vanishing skills--farmers will be the new high tech people!
Posted by: Walks-in-Storms
» RE: vanishing skills--farmers will be the new high tech people!
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» How to process a chicken--how many Americans could actually DO this?
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» RE: How to process a chicken-- comment
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» RE: Frank
Posted by: Birdland
» RE: Frank
Posted by: DaBear
» RE: Frank
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Posted by: JenniferBedingfield on Sep 17, 2009 6:59 AM
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Posted by: peppylapew on Sep 17, 2009 7:23 AM
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About 150 years ago, the world faced an environmental crisis of epic proportion created by the twin pollutants of horse shit and coal ash. Along came oil and those problems went away.
Now, a new source of horse shit has suddenly appeared: again we face the threat of being buried alive.
Even ignoring the discoveries of huge new oil fields announced during the past few weeks, there's no fundamental reason to fear declining oil production. Because we waste so much of it now, we have a false concept of how much oil we really need to sustain our economy.
Halving automobile fuel use by reducing the weight of our cars (easily done) would give the world decades to adjust to declining production. Implementing a commuter-car rail system (a nascent technology known as PRT) would decimate fuel consumption. ... For that matter, the US Air Force accounts for fully half of the federal government's total oil consumption: slashing USAF operations would save a lot of petroleum and a lot of innocent lives.
If, indeed, oil is running out, "market forces," which is to say expensive fuel, will accomplish what legislators cannot, except through force and deception: People will queue up for lightweight, fuel-efficient vehicles --- as indeed they did last year.
But the planet is NOT in danger of running out of crude. Please read and consider the implications of Thomas Gold's book "Deep Hot Biosphere." Link to Amazon page.
The oil companies want us to believe that petroleum comes from a dwindling source (dinosaur fat, etc) because scarcity justifies high prices. But, Gold argues, oil migrates to the surface after being produced deep inside the Earth's crust from a superabundance of hydrocarbon precursors. This explains evidence that oil fields are slowly self-replenishing. Yes, we have plucked the low-hanging fruit; we are finding new ways to shake the tree, however.
Self-flagellation will not solve the "energy problem." Yes, crude oil is toxic and its combustion must be phased out. But let's not permit the revenue needs of greedy corporations and spendthrift governments to stampede us into stupid, unnecessary, economically self-destructive policies.
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» The idyllic 19th century--horseshit everywhere
Posted by: frantic1971
» RE: The idyllic 19th century--horseshit everywhere
Posted by: Birdland
» RE: Horseshit...
Posted by: oregoncharles
» RE: Horseshit...pick it up an use it on soils naturally
Posted by: Changling
» RE: Well, we survived Peak Horse Manure ...
Posted by: newawakening
» RE: Well, we survived Peak Horse Manure ...
Posted by: staicnoise
» RE: Well, we survived Peak Horse Manure ...
Posted by: Walks-in-Storms
» RE: Well, we survived Peak Horse Manure ...
Posted by: acjitsu
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Posted by: troubleinmind254 on Sep 17, 2009 8:11 AM
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You can't get people to mobilize to insure everybody in this country get there teeth cleaned and blood pressure checked, yet alone plan for a world without gas stations.
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Posted by: kellysgarden on Sep 17, 2009 8:27 AM
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If the Neo-cons have their way, our future will be the masses dying-off, or becoming serfs and slaves, while the few elites retain control of the oil.
The main question then becomes: Will we overthrow the Cheneys in our governments, or will we become subservient to them?
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» RE: Even without Peak Oil we still need to stop GHG's now
Posted by: Changling
» RE: read between the lines
Posted by: gimmie shelter
» RE: read between the lines
Posted by: newawakening
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Posted by: caple66wood on Sep 17, 2009 8:45 AM
Current rating: 1 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Peak Oil is coming. It may already be here. It's a real problem. It is not the end of industrial civilization. It most particularly does not mean that that we will, as Kuntsler has specifically predicted, go back to horses.
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» on being a "doomer"
Posted by: inverse_agonist
» RE: on being a "doomer"
Posted by: caple66wood
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Posted by: QQOblivion on Sep 17, 2009 9:20 AM
Current rating: 4 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Then when you die, those few that are left can use your body for fertilizer.
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» RE: La La Land
Posted by: caple66wood
» RE: La La Land... and class denialists
Posted by: DaBear
» RE: La La Land... and class denialists
Posted by: caple66wood
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Posted by: Cap'n Solar on Sep 17, 2009 9:51 AM
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Posted by: zigy on Sep 17, 2009 10:22 AM
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» RE: Click on it to see, google Mitraya
Posted by: Changling
» Thanks for the explanation.
Posted by: zigy
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Posted by: Changling on Sep 17, 2009 10:53 AM
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I believe that the cabal i.e. Dominionists have planned this time we are in and at stage #3 they will come out in the open and offer a helping hand(claw) giving us the choice between their version of theocratic-corporate military order, or the chaos and violence of the disrupted country with a full on economic crash.
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» RE: www.cluborlov.com gives you the whys we could sink
Posted by: zigy
» Who Are The Dominionists?
Posted by: Animal
» Thanks for the...
Posted by: zigy
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Posted by: outragedtoo on Sep 17, 2009 11:05 AM
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But more seriously, we must try to keep as much land as possible in private individual hands — not corporate, agribusiness or government hands. Anyone lucky enough to own a decent piece of land is under tremendous pressure from all sides. Housing developers are less of a threat nowadays than water or beverage companies or other agribusiness sorts. Or municipalities want you to turn it into a land trust, which can also remove that land from private ownership and small-scale agriculture production.
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Posted by: maxsmart on Sep 17, 2009 11:08 AM
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Posted by: vertical on Sep 17, 2009 11:16 AM
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» RE: Nazis
Posted by: newawakening
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Posted by: Spiritgirl on Sep 17, 2009 11:43 AM
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Posted by: DaBear on Sep 17, 2009 12:48 PM
Current rating: 4 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
If you own a house... and then nothing else is mentioned. So, only the middlings who haven't been kicked out in foreclosure get to be part of the survivability.
Here's how we at the bottom see things going:
• The owning class will be scared shitless the more things grind down. How do they react now when they're scared? Send poor people to war, relocate them by force, anything to "stabilize" "the element"... meaning us at the bottom. Two of the housekeepers down the street told me at yesterday's morning coffee on "my" lawn (I just rent it from an owning-class lady) that they were told by their "employers" that they were to work without pay "for now". They were told, "Things are tough right now, but you'll keep working for us, right? It'll be like job security for you." Um, yeah and it's called slavery, classholes. We're pretty confident it'll make a HUGE comeback once the owning class gets spooked enough.
• There'll be ecological migrancy and forced relocations (of you know who: poor people). The camps exist, Ahnold's people let it slip to the LA Times and Sacto Bee that they have plans for this during extreme water crises they're anticipating. Think Katrina on crack.
• If you rent, forget staying put. Landlords will evict people first thing. You won't be allowed to stay. Period. Get a backpack and learn how to pack and use it. Prepare to lose all the rest of your material possessions. You'll be forced to abandon them.
• You won't be making your own candles or growing your own food, but you may be doing so for the owning-class, most likely for no pay... "it'll be like job security." (The housekeeper ladies thought those notions were hilarious: "How're you gonna do that stuff when you're in a camp or walking a road north?"
• Expect "security" a.k.a. "police supervision" at the behest of the owning-class and community "business leaders." They want us under control, ready to be moved out of their way.
Coffee with the housecleaning crew tomorrow. We'll come up with some more for ya.
Bottom Line: If you own, if you're upper middling and above, you'll survive & still be around using the happy-happy skills the article's subjects advocate.
The rest of us down below... think feudal, medieval, think slavery. That's where we're headed.
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» RE: Once again only the Owning-class or upper middlings need apply
Posted by: Animal
» Dabear, you've been drinking the alex jones cool-aid again...
Posted by: zigy
» RE: Once again only the Owning-class or upper middlings need apply
Posted by: richholland
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Posted by: MotherLodeBeth on Sep 17, 2009 1:19 PM
Current rating: 4 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Love riding a bike as do most people around my area do, since its cheaper than driving the car we have. In fact our car was paid for when we bought it in '03 (Toyota Matrix) and it now has 23k miles on it. That's how careful we are in using it. We don't own a lot of stuff, but what we have we need. Like the pressure canner, food dehydrator, clothesline, pickling crock, garden tools, sewing machine etc.
As yes we do know how to make shoes, and many other things. Heck we even make our own burial boxes for friends and family and do home burials.
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» can i come visit you?
Posted by: veggiegrrrl
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Posted by: maxpayne on Sep 17, 2009 6:52 PM
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http://www.livescience.com
/environment/090406-pf-algae-fuel.html
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» RE: You can't spoil the Merchants of Death's fun Max
Posted by: marid
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Posted by: Reeko on Sep 17, 2009 10:51 PM
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Posted by: dianabol on Sep 18, 2009 12:19 AM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
we may even see the water car introduced officially this will have massive benefits but certainly not may that favor government taxing,
the best thing over all is for the first time in over a century there will be no more war over the battle of oil supremacy,
as my title says you cant fight over batteries can you? or will they find a way to go to war over water cars lol,
i hope we run out of oil this afternoon, we will see a major consiracy in terms of what technology the us government is holding from us in order to maintain the oil industry as a whole.
regards dale.
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Posted by: clresu on Sep 18, 2009 8:57 AM
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» RE: the worrisome thing
Posted by: richholland
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Posted by: Dickinseattl on Sep 18, 2009 3:59 PM
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Posted by: bart on Sep 20, 2009 12:48 AM
Current rating: 1 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Universally, through mass indocrination, the same lies have been told to everyone. Then,as was done in this forum, everyone tries to compete with each other by straightening out the inconsistencies in the weaving of the big lie that is always unravelling everywhere on the edges. Wannabees always act as apologists and train to shore up the coherence of fascist ideologies. Universities grant advanced degrees in this kind of lieing. Yes, an enormous change is coming for commoners, but the rich will have the latest technologies. If you go to India, you will see that half the people live like bugs and half the people are rich and educated. There are so many popular ideas that are ideological wet blankets preventing socialist inquiry from going forward. Peak oil is a small one. The elites are telling you that your cleverness is irrelevant. And everyone deliberates and experiences enmasse the Hamlet complex. Every aspect of U.S. life is controlled by the 5%ers. Every aspect. The Bilderbergers know it was a mistake to educate/indocrinate everyone with modern ideas. When the few generations of peasants who were educated do die off, the idea that a peasant can be educated can be erased. The elites increase oppression of women, insure the radical tramatic upbringings of lovelessness, and fundamentalism will flourish as well as plenty of the childhood brutality will be restaged as endless willing soldiers. If the oil industry was a public utility, the peak oil hoax hustle talk would disappear. Vast disgusting opulence is the lot of life for the oil oligarchy. Remember: the major source of CO2 in the world is the U.S. military's invasion machinery. Anyway, always plant a big organic garden and get yourself and your family away from the concentration camp cities. Integrate your mind with your hand and learn to act on intention.
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» RE: Peak Oil
Posted by: richholland
» RE: Peak Oil
Posted by: sclamont
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Posted by: Orange on Sep 20, 2009 6:53 PM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
To insist that the world's oil supply will not also be used up is flat-out stupid.
There is no such thing as an infinite natural resource. Anything that we use profligately will become exhausted. It's amazing how some people can go into denial and insist that "It can't happen here", especially when it already has.
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» RE: Peak Buffalo, Peak Salmon...
Posted by: axisofoil
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Posted by: Romantic Violence on Sep 23, 2009 12:09 PM
Current rating: 1 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
FTW
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Posted by: axisofoil on Sep 23, 2009 12:12 PM
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Posted by: Bearzerker on Sep 23, 2009 1:47 PM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
I thought i should post a link to a counter story on this very subject...
like Murphy...
I'm a budding optimist which makes me question things like peak oil & global warming...
is it really happening?...
I dont believe everything I see and hear anymore... should you?
enquiring minds haveta know!
I want a new and improved fairness doctrine!
and some muscle in Fairness and Accuracy in Reporting!
government & corporate propaganda comes in many forms,
[thanx to k-street] they are the same now.
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» RE: Lawrence Solomon: Endless oil... thank god for the internet and counter arguments
Posted by: Romantic Violence
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Posted by: ShrubtheWarcriminal on Sep 23, 2009 11:49 PM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
To do other wise may have dire consequences. To do so will at least save you money.
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Posted by: FreeAmerica on Sep 24, 2009 8:32 AM
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The only reason that we would be anywhere remotely close to peak oil is because every time someone finds a couple of trillion barrels of oil, the democrats immediately name it a wildlife refuge. Think ANWAR and the rest of Alaska, Bakken Formation, Bering Straits, 95% of US coastlines, Rocky Mountains, Great Lakes, Appalachia, and the Gulf of Mexico for a start.
In the event that we actually used some of the more easily extracted oil up, I will point out that we haven't even explored most of the oceans, 2/3 of the earth's surface. Likewise, directional and deep water drilling have brought huge new resources into reach.
Beyond the in the ground crude, as several mentioned above, the Fischer–Tropsch Synthesis process used by the Germans does actually work. In addition to the four of five generations that coal could provide energy for in that process, people are also using derivatives of that process to synth oil from algae, compost, and other sources. If it has hydrogen and carbon, it can be made into oil. That includes every living thing.
A guy down in Georgia is using bacteria from cow stomachs to make methane from biomass, which he captures and renders into any form of hydrocarbon desired.
If none of that works, we have many generations of natural gas, again, mostly locked up by mindless enviro corporations. That can again be refined into most hydrocarbon based products as well as being burned for heat, light, power, and transportation. For most of those, it is actually better than crude oil.
As far as oil being abiotic, some is, some isn't. You can tell by the chemical markers. In the case of Alaska's north slope, it is the remnants of an ancient sub tropical forest (So much for the AGW and polar bear fantasies).
The no-energy whack off fantasy that you pursue should be more pursued along the lines of an EM pulse (EMP attack) from one of your comrades in South Korea, Pakistan, or Iran.
That would wipe out all things electric and electronic, and in an instant plunge us back into the 1800s. THAT fits the disaster scene that you are writing about. It would kill off tens of millions of people, plunge our society into primal chaos within a month, and keep it there for years. Unlike peak oil, it would come in one day.
The energy spent on peak oil would be much better spent on other problems, challenges, and efficiencies to make our resources last longer.
Could we run out of oil? Sure. If we actually use the generations of oil up before finding cleaner energy sources 100 or 200 years from now, it is our own stupidity.
More likely we will be looking back in two decades and laughing at our lack of prior evolution, much as we would laugh at mimeograph machines, the Edsel, the Pacer, and other 4-12MPG cars, PCBs and asbestos in everything, and paper records rendered to microfiche. All of those were current technology in my lifetime, and I am only 60% of the way to my life expectancy.
Really seriously Tara, you have a strong resource here, and a lot of socially conscious people willing to help. Use that capitol for real problems.
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Posted by: dianabol on Sep 29, 2009 9:45 PM
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for those who dont know about the hydro powered vehicle and the definite possibility of retro fitting existing motor vehicles,
you need only look on youtube abd type in water car,
so the conspiracy is the fact that the worlds governments will not allow such competition to the oil industry and in terms of battery powered vehicles the plan is to sell and tax battery recharges, as in pay to fill and pay tax, this water car technology is like cars on buy steroids there is just no comparison!!!!
when will the people rise up against this what i think is the worlds biggest ever conspiracy,
and blatant conspiracy at that,
iv lost all faith in democratic governments.
regards dale
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Posted by: Blackpool Hotels on Oct 11, 2009 1:27 PM
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