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Why the Economic Downturn Has Been Good News for Amtrak and the Future of Rail Travel

A slowing economy has resulted in speedier service for Amtrak trains, which is helping to make the case for more rail funding.
June 23, 2009  |  
 
 
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In a recession, everything slows down. A year after the first signs of trouble appeared, the financial system remains sluggish. Most other sectors of the economy -- from housing construction to auto manufacturing -- are also at a standstill. But at least one thing in the U.S. is speeding up: the nation's passenger trains.

The recent slump has shown that in an economy driven by consumption, grim financial news can come with a kind of green consolation. For example, the recession has contributed to a drop in U.S. CO2 emissions (down 3 percent in 2008) and in the amount of waste sent to landfills (down 10 to 30 percent in some areas). Rising unemployment has led to a decrease in traffic congestion in some major cities.

Add to that list of green benefits the fact that Amtrak trains are zipping along like never before. The reason? As the economy contracts, freight cargo on the nation's rail lines is diminishing, and that makes it easier for passenger trains to get to their destinations.

With the exception of the Washington-Boston corridor and a section of Michigan, Amtrak trains share the railways with the cargo companies. Federal law requires that passenger trains be given priority over freight. But since the freight companies own the rails, cargo trains often receive the right-of-way. As anyone who has ever ridden Amtrak long distance knows, it's not unusual for passengers to wait hours, in the middle of the night or the middle of nowhere, for freight cars to pass.

"If you have everybody on one track, you have a lot of delays," says Vernae Graham, a spokeswoman with Amtrak. "It's one lane of traffic for trains moving in two directions. If you have freight that is backlogged or a disabled train, you have nowhere to go."

Just like on the freeways, a limping economy means less congestion on the rail lines. Freight traffic has dropped about one-fifth since last year as the shipment of coal, metals and corn decreases.

At the same time, Amtrak is showing its best on-time performance in more than 20 years. So far this year, the company is posting close to an 80 percent on-time rate, up from 73 percent in 2008. Some routes have shown spectacular gains.

In 2008, the California Zephyr, which goes from Chicago to San Francisco, arrived in Grand Junction, Colo., on schedule 44 percent of the time; in March this year, it hit its scheduled stop there 92 percent of the time.

The improved service has Amtrak passengers thrilled: "This is the best trip I've ever been on," Sally Lloyd, a retiree from East Lansing, Mich., said as she disembarked from the California Zephyr. "We were an hour early getting into Chicago, and only 20 minutes late here."

Lloyd, who has taken a cross-country Amtrak trip every year for the past decade, said that in the past she has experienced excruciating delays. The worst delay she ever had was nine hours long. "You just sit there until the freight goes by. And it's getting later and later, and you're not getting any further. It's very frustrating."

The improved performance comes at a crucial time for Amtrak. In 2008, the company set an all-time ridership record as high gas prices boosted interest in mass transit. A five-year reauthorization bill that passed Congress in October means that for the first time in decades, Amtrak won't have to seek yearly congressional support, giving the company time to make strategic investments.

The economic stimulus package includes $8.1 billion for Amtrak improvements, and the company now has a strong advocate in the White House -- longtime Amtrak commuter Vice President Joseph Biden.

For Amtrak to capitalize on these advantages, it must, at the very least, get its trains to run on time. According to James McCommons, author of the forthcoming book Waiting on a Train: The Embattled Future of Passenger Rail Service, people don't necessarily expect the train to be quick, but they do need it to be reliable.

"It's important for people to be able to depend on this service," he said. "It isn't so much speed. It's frequency and dependability. People want to know that there is going to be a train there when they head home at night."

Perhaps rail aficionados -- who favor Amtrak's relaxing atmosphere and communal spirit over the frenzy and isolation of the airport -- have something to teach the engineers of our now-derailed economy.

Speed, in fact, isn't everything. Steadiness is more likely to get us where we need to go.


Jason Mark, editor of the environmental quarterly Earth Island Journal, is a co-author of Building the Green Economy: Success Stories from the Grassroots (PoliPointPress, 2007).
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Posted by: visionsking on Jun 23, 2009 12:16 AM   
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railways very efficient
Posted by: dadanbetty on Jun 23, 2009 1:30 AM   
Current rating: 4    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
I believe every developed nation in the world utilizes rail to max because it is profoundly efficient.

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More investment
Posted by: cplot on Jun 23, 2009 1:31 AM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Amtrak first of all needs to invest in longer sidings so that the freight can be sidelined instead of Amtrak’s shorter trains. Without that, the freight companies cannot even grant Amtrak the right-of-way since the sidings can only fit the Amtrak trains and not the freight trains.

In addition, they should upgrade all of the beds. Even with conventional trains, we could get the speeds up to 90, 100, or even 110 mph throughout the whole system.

Finally, electrification of the entire rail system will allow freight and passenger trains to power themselves from potentially cheaper and eventually greener electricity reducing CO₂ emissions for freight and passenger to potentially 0. As a transitional strategy the Amtrak and freight locomotives – which are already hybrid diesel electric engines –can add third-rail trolleys and catenary pantographs to allow them to operate on electricity when available and diesel elsewhere. The locomotives entering New York’s Penn Station already use such an approach since Penn Station no longer allows exhaust fumes from locomotives.

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This is blatant nonsense. There have been no improvements in public transportation to begin with.
Posted by: maxpayne on Jun 23, 2009 4:50 AM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
In another article, I posted a response to a similarly blissfully ignorant self-reliant yankee article but this article deserves the same response:


I'm sorry but this article fails to talk about our languished public transportation infrastructure. I go to Northern VA and Washington DC on business trips quite often and I notice that the metro fares are generally steep and yet the service never improves. On buses it is no better. More buses could be used so that people are not forced to wait up to an hour just because they missed their last bus by even a fraction of a minute. The metro rail in Washington and most major cities is even worse. Despite all those rising fees, there have been no new train cars added and delays, slowdowns, mechanical failures, etc ... are on the rise while in Europe it's not as bad. If the author expects us taxpayers to shut up and pay too much for shoddy and shoddier public transportation and give up our cars suddenly, get real. It ain't gonna happen. Even if some report supposedly shows that ridership on the metro and/or carpooling has gone up, most of the time the reports are fudged. Traffic has only gotten worse in most places and unless you're married and are working not too far apart, carpooling is harder to come by for most people and that reality is unlikely to change. Why else would the car companies overadvertise? You would think that with rising unemployment and Obama's so-called promise for "green jobs" that there would be work to improve the public transportation infrastructure but I've done a thorough check and even talked to a few public employees about it and I've received confirmation that they don't care about price gouging customers and engaging in business scandals. No wonder Europe is kicking America's ass on public transportation and we Americans are fucking ourselves to death by being the biggest gas guzzling nation but thankfully, the rising prices of crude oil and rising unemployment rates are confirming that GOD IS PUNISHING AMERICA for drilling and going to wars for oil all the while continuing to promote extreme selfishness and smash good public sharing ideas.

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Just because Joe Biden, D-MBNA, can afford Amtrak doesn't mean we can too.
Posted by: JenniferBedingfield on Jun 23, 2009 5:21 AM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
The metro service out here in St Louis has been getting worse despite the repeated fare hikes. Until it's made affordable and convenient, people will still rely on cars more than AMTRAK to go back and forth to work.

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Speaking of poor rail service, see what happens when Big Auto gets bailed out while metro gets the
Posted by: CarlaWaters on Jun 23, 2009 7:04 AM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
ax in funding every time?

Riders Complain About Lack of Information

Crash Was Supposed To Be Impossible

More Than 75 Injured in Metro Accident Taken to Area Hospitals

There's more on WaPost but so much sadness and anger just reading through enough of this. Metro fares, as JenniferBedingfield and maxpayne have correctly pointed out, continue to go up and I've seen it here in the DC area and yet service quality deteriorates. Obama and Fenty are unlikely to do anything about it either as corruption in Washington is corrupt to the core. As if Dubya's bringing TX to Washington wasn't bad enough, bring in the Chicago corruption machine to make it even worse !

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I've only taken Amtrak once...
Posted by: CanuckKid on Jun 23, 2009 7:48 AM   
Current rating: 4    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
...and I thoroughly enjoyed the experience. It's a sensible way to travel - I just wish train travel was as well-suported up here in Canada. I hope that as a continent we put the investment dollars into rail infrstructure that it needs.

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They call 92% on-time good??
Posted by: snax on Jun 23, 2009 7:51 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
It is way past time for this country to build out independent high speed passenger rail lines. The on-time records of high speed rail systems are far better than the now "improved" 92% and people can justify eschewing air travel for ground based travel that can actually be competitive in travel time between hubs.

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» RE: They call 92% on-time good?? Posted by: monkeywrench

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Three words ...
Posted by: monkeywrench on Jun 23, 2009 7:58 AM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
... to make AMTRAK even more efficient: more passing sidings.

[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]

» Here's a better idea. Posted by: Jkid4x
» You've hit the nail on the head Posted by: Gabba_Gabba_Hey

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Good
Posted by: Gravitas on Jun 23, 2009 10:00 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
My experience with Amtrak has been limited to Chicago to Milwaukee for festivals. But I will after giving up my car and riding local public transportation for years, Amtrak is heaven compared to that. The seats are comfortable and there is a QUIET car! Of course there are always those who ignore that and come with screaming kids or loud video games and have to be reminded. (If you have several cars to choose from, why do noisey folk INSISTS on walking all the way to the back to disturb quiet lovers???) The other thing is I wish they would run one late car from Milwaukee to Chicago during fest season on weekends. The last train leaves way too early to enjoy the evening. But other than that, it is a great service. I hope we do implement high speed rail!

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Better OT performance is great, but...
Posted by: truthteller on Jun 23, 2009 10:38 AM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
...Amtrak faces many problems from nearly 30 years of outright, mostly Republican hostility to the very idea of publicly supported rail-passenger service, and several attempts to do away with the agency altogether.

As of today, Amtrak's average equipment fleet age is the oldest in it's history. They haven't made a significant equipment purchase in at least 10 years, and every accident leads to exacerbating the equipment shortages.

Those who say 92% OT performance is nothing to brag about are right. Amtrak will not sell a connecting ticket with anything less than a one-hour cushion. In Europe it is common to connect to another train with two minutes or less to spare - I've done it. Over there, missing a connection is no huge deal most of the time. Usually the next train to your destination in only an hour away. Here, the next train is probably tomorrow, or even the day after that - with some routes being only tri-weekly in frequency.

All of the talk about super-duper bullet trains, or maglev (which even the Germans have given up on) is a distraction from the badly needed immediate needs for reliable, conventional rail-passenger service we're going to need as our peak oil problems become more obvious, and our infrastructure problems worsen, due to the unaffordable repairs needed.

The first thing that needs to be done for Amtrak, is the increase in equipment capacity to make every route at least daily, and then to have at least two trains/day 12 hours apart on every route. Ideally, we should have near hourly service on major corridors of up to 500 miles. All of this needs to be integrated with frequent, safe and reliable public transit at most station stops. That's how you make it appealing to the public.

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Amtrak is so rife with flaws it's better to reboot with a different operational plan
Posted by: DaBear on Jun 23, 2009 12:20 PM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Amtrak is overpriced takes too long, is overcrowded, the cars are aging and falling apart, they run out of water and the toilets don't work most of the time. They run out of food routinely between NM and LA. And, in winter they run generally 12-18 hours behind.

Sorry, the current system isn't benefitting from anything let alone the economy. Hi-speed maglev and efficient inter-urban rail is the ONLY solution and an entire reboot of the concept of rail travel is what is required to even make us close to Euro-progress. It requires massive investment and works as part of a national power-down process--which but for the rich people in this fucked up country we'd already have.

It absolutely doesn't help progressives to have "rail-romance" pieces like this one posing as reality. You wanna know the truth about things, travel in steerage with us po' folk. You'll get a real eddicashun fast.

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What about the funding Amtrak needs that it has been losing for years?
Posted by: Ranjit Kumar on Jun 23, 2009 2:52 PM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
No matter the president, since 1981, funding for Amtrak has been cut. Even if everyone were to stop driving their cars and suddenly choose Amtrak, that still wouldn't be enough to cover the general maintenance and repair costs let alone expanding to other booming cities and counties. This article is too rosy and ignores the reality. If you don't have a job or are seeing paycuts to your jobs, Amtrak will not be affordable unless you're ready to pay more for less.

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Train robbery
Posted by: Sir Gareth on Jun 24, 2009 1:55 PM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
The important progressive principle to be preserved here is he that uses something should make someone else pay for it.

Amtrak has lost more than 13 Billion in subsidies and supports a bloated union than could not exist without massive transfers of wealth from those who earn it to those who use goverment force to claim it.

This is actually a correlary to the golden rule: stealing is good as long as the government does it.

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» RE: Train robbery Posted by: cplot

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Christian Louboutin
Posted by: Christianheels on Jul 20, 2009 9:52 PM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Alternet Comments:

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reading glasses
Posted by: visionsking on Jun 23, 2009 12:16 AM   
Current rating: 1    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Cheap Prescription Eyeglasses,Reading Glasses Frames,Optical Eyewear On Sale
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Stylish and quality prescription sunglasses on glassesshop.com

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Comments are closed-

railways very efficient
Posted by: dadanbetty on Jun 23, 2009 1:30 AM   
Current rating: 4    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
I believe every developed nation in the world utilizes rail to max because it is profoundly efficient.

[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]


Comments are closed-

More investment
Posted by: cplot on Jun 23, 2009 1:31 AM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Amtrak first of all needs to invest in longer sidings so that the freight can be sidelined instead of Amtrak’s shorter trains. Without that, the freight companies cannot even grant Amtrak the right-of-way since the sidings can only fit the Amtrak trains and not the freight trains.

In addition, they should upgrade all of the beds. Even with conventional trains, we could get the speeds up to 90, 100, or even 110 mph throughout the whole system.

Finally, electrification of the entire rail system will allow freight and passenger trains to power themselves from potentially cheaper and eventually greener electricity reducing CO₂ emissions for freight and passenger to potentially 0. As a transitional strategy the Amtrak and freight locomotives – which are already hybrid diesel electric engines –can add third-rail trolleys and catenary pantographs to allow them to operate on electricity when available and diesel elsewhere. The locomotives entering New York’s Penn Station already use such an approach since Penn Station no longer allows exhaust fumes from locomotives.

[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]


Comments are closed-

This is blatant nonsense. There have been no improvements in public transportation to begin with.
Posted by: maxpayne on Jun 23, 2009 4:50 AM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
In another article, I posted a response to a similarly blissfully ignorant self-reliant yankee article but this article deserves the same response:


I'm sorry but this article fails to talk about our languished public transportation infrastructure. I go to Northern VA and Washington DC on business trips quite often and I notice that the metro fares are generally steep and yet the service never improves. On buses it is no better. More buses could be used so that people are not forced to wait up to an hour just because they missed their last bus by even a fraction of a minute. The metro rail in Washington and most major cities is even worse. Despite all those rising fees, there have been no new train cars added and delays, slowdowns, mechanical failures, etc ... are on the rise while in Europe it's not as bad. If the author expects us taxpayers to shut up and pay too much for shoddy and shoddier public transportation and give up our cars suddenly, get real. It ain't gonna happen. Even if some report supposedly shows that ridership on the metro and/or carpooling has gone up, most of the time the reports are fudged. Traffic has only gotten worse in most places and unless you're married and are working not too far apart, carpooling is harder to come by for most people and that reality is unlikely to change. Why else would the car companies overadvertise? You would think that with rising unemployment and Obama's so-called promise for "green jobs" that there would be work to improve the public transportation infrastructure but I've done a thorough check and even talked to a few public employees about it and I've received confirmation that they don't care about price gouging customers and engaging in business scandals. No wonder Europe is kicking America's ass on public transportation and we Americans are fucking ourselves to death by being the biggest gas guzzling nation but thankfully, the rising prices of crude oil and rising unemployment rates are confirming that GOD IS PUNISHING AMERICA for drilling and going to wars for oil all the while continuing to promote extreme selfishness and smash good public sharing ideas.

[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]


Comments are closed-

Just because Joe Biden, D-MBNA, can afford Amtrak doesn't mean we can too.
Posted by: JenniferBedingfield on Jun 23, 2009 5:21 AM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
The metro service out here in St Louis has been getting worse despite the repeated fare hikes. Until it's made affordable and convenient, people will still rely on cars more than AMTRAK to go back and forth to work.

[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]


Comments are closed-

Speaking of poor rail service, see what happens when Big Auto gets bailed out while metro gets the
Posted by: CarlaWaters on Jun 23, 2009 7:04 AM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
ax in funding every time?

Riders Complain About Lack of Information

Crash Was Supposed To Be Impossible

More Than 75 Injured in Metro Accident Taken to Area Hospitals

There's more on WaPost but so much sadness and anger just reading through enough of this. Metro fares, as JenniferBedingfield and maxpayne have correctly pointed out, continue to go up and I've seen it here in the DC area and yet service quality deteriorates. Obama and Fenty are unlikely to do anything about it either as corruption in Washington is corrupt to the core. As if Dubya's bringing TX to Washington wasn't bad enough, bring in the Chicago corruption machine to make it even worse !

[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]


Comments are closed-

I've only taken Amtrak once...
Posted by: CanuckKid on Jun 23, 2009 7:48 AM   
Current rating: 4    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
...and I thoroughly enjoyed the experience. It's a sensible way to travel - I just wish train travel was as well-suported up here in Canada. I hope that as a continent we put the investment dollars into rail infrstructure that it needs.

[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]


Comments are closed-

They call 92% on-time good??
Posted by: snax on Jun 23, 2009 7:51 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
It is way past time for this country to build out independent high speed passenger rail lines. The on-time records of high speed rail systems are far better than the now "improved" 92% and people can justify eschewing air travel for ground based travel that can actually be competitive in travel time between hubs.

[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]

» RE: They call 92% on-time good?? Posted by: monkeywrench

Comments are closed-

Three words ...
Posted by: monkeywrench on Jun 23, 2009 7:58 AM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
... to make AMTRAK even more efficient: more passing sidings.

[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]

» Here's a better idea. Posted by: Jkid4x
» You've hit the nail on the head Posted by: Gabba_Gabba_Hey

Comments are closed-

Good
Posted by: Gravitas on Jun 23, 2009 10:00 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
My experience with Amtrak has been limited to Chicago to Milwaukee for festivals. But I will after giving up my car and riding local public transportation for years, Amtrak is heaven compared to that. The seats are comfortable and there is a QUIET car! Of course there are always those who ignore that and come with screaming kids or loud video games and have to be reminded. (If you have several cars to choose from, why do noisey folk INSISTS on walking all the way to the back to disturb quiet lovers???) The other thing is I wish they would run one late car from Milwaukee to Chicago during fest season on weekends. The last train leaves way too early to enjoy the evening. But other than that, it is a great service. I hope we do implement high speed rail!

[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]


Comments are closed-

Better OT performance is great, but...
Posted by: truthteller on Jun 23, 2009 10:38 AM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
...Amtrak faces many problems from nearly 30 years of outright, mostly Republican hostility to the very idea of publicly supported rail-passenger service, and several attempts to do away with the agency altogether.

As of today, Amtrak's average equipment fleet age is the oldest in it's history. They haven't made a significant equipment purchase in at least 10 years, and every accident leads to exacerbating the equipment shortages.

Those who say 92% OT performance is nothing to brag about are right. Amtrak will not sell a connecting ticket with anything less than a one-hour cushion. In Europe it is common to connect to another train with two minutes or less to spare - I've done it. Over there, missing a connection is no huge deal most of the time. Usually the next train to your destination in only an hour away. Here, the next train is probably tomorrow, or even the day after that - with some routes being only tri-weekly in frequency.

All of the talk about super-duper bullet trains, or maglev (which even the Germans have given up on) is a distraction from the badly needed immediate needs for reliable, conventional rail-passenger service we're going to need as our peak oil problems become more obvious, and our infrastructure problems worsen, due to the unaffordable repairs needed.

The first thing that needs to be done for Amtrak, is the increase in equipment capacity to make every route at least daily, and then to have at least two trains/day 12 hours apart on every route. Ideally, we should have near hourly service on major corridors of up to 500 miles. All of this needs to be integrated with frequent, safe and reliable public transit at most station stops. That's how you make it appealing to the public.

[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]


Comments are closed-

Amtrak is so rife with flaws it's better to reboot with a different operational plan
Posted by: DaBear on Jun 23, 2009 12:20 PM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Amtrak is overpriced takes too long, is overcrowded, the cars are aging and falling apart, they run out of water and the toilets don't work most of the time. They run out of food routinely between NM and LA. And, in winter they run generally 12-18 hours behind.

Sorry, the current system isn't benefitting from anything let alone the economy. Hi-speed maglev and efficient inter-urban rail is the ONLY solution and an entire reboot of the concept of rail travel is what is required to even make us close to Euro-progress. It requires massive investment and works as part of a national power-down process--which but for the rich people in this fucked up country we'd already have.

It absolutely doesn't help progressives to have "rail-romance" pieces like this one posing as reality. You wanna know the truth about things, travel in steerage with us po' folk. You'll get a real eddicashun fast.

[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]


Comments are closed-

What about the funding Amtrak needs that it has been losing for years?
Posted by: Ranjit Kumar on Jun 23, 2009 2:52 PM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
No matter the president, since 1981, funding for Amtrak has been cut. Even if everyone were to stop driving their cars and suddenly choose Amtrak, that still wouldn't be enough to cover the general maintenance and repair costs let alone expanding to other booming cities and counties. This article is too rosy and ignores the reality. If you don't have a job or are seeing paycuts to your jobs, Amtrak will not be affordable unless you're ready to pay more for less.

[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]


Comments are closed-

Train robbery
Posted by: Sir Gareth on Jun 24, 2009 1:55 PM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
The important progressive principle to be preserved here is he that uses something should make someone else pay for it.

Amtrak has lost more than 13 Billion in subsidies and supports a bloated union than could not exist without massive transfers of wealth from those who earn it to those who use goverment force to claim it.

This is actually a correlary to the golden rule: stealing is good as long as the government does it.

[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]

» RE: Train robbery Posted by: cplot

Comments are closed-

Christian Louboutin
Posted by: Christianheels on Jul 20, 2009 9:52 PM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
 
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